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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The first full poll after Swinson’s Brexit gamble sees the LDs

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  • TGOHF said:
    Why should the LibDems not stand against these people? Surely they would hope to exploit the TIGgers splitting the votes for their old parties.
    I agree and I am certainly no LD.. Why do them any favours by standing aside.. even if Greive stands as an independent he has zero chance of holding his seat and the same goes for Soubry in hers. I don't know about Grapes seat so can't comment but I would think it unlikely he holds on..

    Why would the LDs risk the chance of having their own true candidate be victorious in order to support people who by their very actions can be guaranteed to be loyal and who haven't even joined the LDs like some of the others have
    Well...as someone with an interest in Labour winning Broxtowe, I'm pleased to see the LibDems splitting Soubry's vote - not because I thought that either of them have any realistic chance of winning, but because it'll make it easier to argue on the doorstep that you clearly need to vote Labour to evict the Tories and prevent No Deal. If the LibDems had stood aside for her and declared it to be a priority seat for them, that would be harder, and avoid the creeping suspicion that they are more about maximimising their vote than stopping Brexit. I wonder if that's in their long-term interest?
    The whole premise of the tweet is wrong.

    The tweet says "the @LibDems have decided to stand candidates AGAINST Dominic Grieve, Anna Soubry and Mike Gapes".

    No they haven't. They've selected PPCs. Prospective Parliamentary Candidates.

    They have not "decided to stand candidates" until the form goes in. It's a fluid situation and negotations are going on. Selecting a PPC means they're prepared if the negotiations don't bear fruit... but doesn't necessarily mean they'll actually fight the seat.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    edited September 2019

    148grss said:

    TGOHF said:
    Like the lefty attacks from such people as... well know legal writer for the Financial Times

    https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1174409107681492992
    Yes absolutely. You think David Allen Green is anything more than extreme partisan hack who hates Brexit and the government?

    The father Tweeted his POV and LauraK quoted and retweeted what he had to say. To call that irresponsible is bizarre. LauraK didn't "out" the father he put it out himself!
    This is the tweet that many are objecting to. The fact that it's subsequently been removed from LK's current twitter timeline tells you all you need to know.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1174318249460281346?s=20

    I think the Tweet that most objected to was the follow-up in which LK actually identified the bloke's Twitter account and, in doing so, invited a pile on. That was the one that got me. I just didn't see any reason for it. But we all view things in different ways. For me, the story was not the fact that the parent with the child that almost died was a Labour activist, it was that the PM's first reaction to being confronted was to lie. I found it bizarre that LK focused on the former, not the latter. But I am biased!
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413

    Foxy said:

    Trudeau. Lol. I think by the millennium we knew the black and white minstrels were racist bucko. I wonder if he put on a funny accent too, the naughty little noodle.
    I love it when these super woke pricks turn out to be full of wind and piss

    His apology seems to show that at the time he was in a pre-woke state of unaware ness. A bit like Harry was. Some personal moral growth is a good thing surely?
    If it were simply a case of a little moral growth then sure, but it's not. It's the usual hypocrisy and the oh so earnest apology when they get caught. And his 'we know better now' shtick is so much bilge, the world's moral centre doesn't evolve with St Justin.
    Not all superheroes wear capes, but none of them brown up.
    The Hulk greens up :-)
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,534

    Prospective Parliamentary Candidates.

    They have not "decided to stand candidates" until the form goes in. It's a fluid situation and negotations are going on. Selecting a PPC means they're prepared if the negotiations don't bear fruit... but doesn't necessarily mean they'll actually fight the seat.

    I'm not going by a tweet and I know the LibDems involved - they certainly think they're standing and there are no negotiations that they're aware of.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    At one time PB would have discounted polls taken during party conferences as being unreliable as every party gets a boost during their conference... ;)
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    148grss said:

    TGOHF said:
    Like the lefty attacks from such people as... well know legal writer for the Financial Times

    https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1174409107681492992
    Yes absolutely. You think David Allen Green is anything more than extreme partisan hack who hates Brexit and the government?

    The father Tweeted his POV and LauraK quoted and retweeted what he had to say. To call that irresponsible is bizarre. LauraK didn't "out" the father he put it out himself!
    This is the tweet that many are objecting to. The fact that it's subsequently been removed from LK's current twitter timeline tells you all you need to know.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1174318249460281346?s=20

    It hasn’t been removed. It simply appears in the ‘Tweets and Replies’ tab because it was a reply and not a direct tweet.
  • GIN1138 said:

    At one time PB would have discounted polls taken during party conferences as being unreliable as every party gets a boost during their conference... ;)

    When was the last time the LDs got a conference boost, though?

  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Prospective Parliamentary Candidates.

    They have not "decided to stand candidates" until the form goes in. It's a fluid situation and negotations are going on. Selecting a PPC means they're prepared if the negotiations don't bear fruit... but doesn't necessarily mean they'll actually fight the seat.

    I'm not going by a tweet and I know the LibDems involved - they certainly think they're standing and there are no negotiations that they're aware of.
    The LD version of unite to remain seems to be 'everybody stand aside for us'
    Maybe that's why Heidi Allen pulled out of defecting and Caroline Lucas has been so vocal against them
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    148grss said:

    TGOHF said:
    Like the lefty attacks from such people as... well know legal writer for the Financial Times

    https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1174409107681492992
    Yes absolutely. You think David Allen Green is anything more than extreme partisan hack who hates Brexit and the government?

    The father Tweeted his POV and LauraK quoted and retweeted what he had to say. To call that irresponsible is bizarre. LauraK didn't "out" the father he put it out himself!
    This is the tweet that many are objecting to. The fact that it's subsequently been removed from LK's current twitter timeline tells you all you need to know.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1174318249460281346?s=20

    I think the Tweet that most objected to was the follow-up in which LK actually identified the bloke's Twitter account and, in doing so, invited a pile on. That was the one that got me. I just didn't see any reason for it. But we all view things in different ways. For me, the story was not the fact that the parent with the child that almost died was a Labour activist, it was that the PM's first reaction to being confronted was to lie. I found it bizarre that LK focused on the former, not the latter. But I am biased!
    She simply quoted his side of the story! Its not like she just randomly linked to his Twitter account. He posted a tweet about the incident and she quoted him, showing his side of the story.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Baxter gives Con a majority of 60 on 32% of the vote. That'd do... :D
  • 148grss said:

    TGOHF said:
    Like the lefty attacks from such people as... well know legal writer for the Financial Times

    https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1174409107681492992
    Yes absolutely. You think David Allen Green is anything more than extreme partisan hack who hates Brexit and the government?

    The father Tweeted his POV and LauraK quoted and retweeted what he had to say. To call that irresponsible is bizarre. LauraK didn't "out" the father he put it out himself!
    This is the tweet that many are objecting to. The fact that it's subsequently been removed from LK's current twitter timeline tells you all you need to know.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1174318249460281346?s=20

    I think the Tweet that most objected to was the follow-up in which LK actually identified the bloke's Twitter account and, in doing so, invited a pile on. That was the one that got me. I just didn't see any reason for it. But we all view things in different ways. For me, the story was not the fact that the parent with the child that almost died was a Labour activist, it was that the PM's first reaction to being confronted was to lie. I found it bizarre that LK focused on the former, not the latter. But I am biased!
    You mean this one? Where he identifies himself?

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1174318564397985793?s=20
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    148grss said:

    TGOHF said:
    Like the lefty attacks from such people as... well know legal writer for the Financial Times

    https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1174409107681492992
    Yes absolutely. You think David Allen Green is anything more than extreme partisan hack who hates Brexit and the government?

    The father Tweeted his POV and LauraK quoted and retweeted what he had to say. To call that irresponsible is bizarre. LauraK didn't "out" the father he put it out himself!
    This is the tweet that many are objecting to. The fact that it's subsequently been removed from LK's current twitter timeline tells you all you need to know.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1174318249460281346?s=20

    I think the Tweet that most objected to was the follow-up in which LK actually identified the bloke's Twitter account and, in doing so, invited a pile on. That was the one that got me. I just didn't see any reason for it. But we all view things in different ways. For me, the story was not the fact that the parent with the child that almost died was a Labour activist, it was that the PM's first reaction to being confronted was to lie. I found it bizarre that LK focused on the former, not the latter. But I am biased!
    Not to mention the first tweet on the subject from her was negative about Boris
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited September 2019
    Three tweets from a political reporter that an unbiased observer couldn’t think were anything controversial. She’s simply telling what happened and who the people involved are. She didn’t just link to an unsuspecting blokes account, she’s quoting him telling the twittersphere what happened and advertising the fact he was there


  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,856

    148grss said:

    TGOHF said:
    Like the lefty attacks from such people as... well know legal writer for the Financial Times

    https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1174409107681492992
    Yes absolutely. You think David Allen Green is anything more than extreme partisan hack who hates Brexit and the government?

    The father Tweeted his POV and LauraK quoted and retweeted what he had to say. To call that irresponsible is bizarre. LauraK didn't "out" the father he put it out himself!
    This is the tweet that many are objecting to. The fact that it's subsequently been removed from LK's current twitter timeline tells you all you need to know.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1174318249460281346?s=20

    I think the Tweet that most objected to was the follow-up in which LK actually identified the bloke's Twitter account and, in doing so, invited a pile on. That was the one that got me. I just didn't see any reason for it. But we all view things in different ways. For me, the story was not the fact that the parent with the child that almost died was a Labour activist, it was that the PM's first reaction to being confronted was to lie. I found it bizarre that LK focused on the former, not the latter. But I am biased!
    She did criticise him as a 'rabbit caught in the headlights.'

    There is no excuse for abuse but we all know what twitter is like. If you publicly confront the PM like that it will generate interest in yourself.
  • 148grss said:

    TGOHF said:
    Like the lefty attacks from such people as... well know legal writer for the Financial Times

    https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1174409107681492992
    Yes absolutely. You think David Allen Green is anything more than extreme partisan hack who hates Brexit and the government?

    The father Tweeted his POV and LauraK quoted and retweeted what he had to say. To call that irresponsible is bizarre. LauraK didn't "out" the father he put it out himself!
    This is the tweet that many are objecting to. The fact that it's subsequently been removed from LK's current twitter timeline tells you all you need to know.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1174318249460281346?s=20

    I think the Tweet that most objected to was the follow-up in which LK actually identified the bloke's Twitter account and, in doing so, invited a pile on. That was the one that got me. I just didn't see any reason for it. But we all view things in different ways. For me, the story was not the fact that the parent with the child that almost died was a Labour activist, it was that the PM's first reaction to being confronted was to lie. I found it bizarre that LK focused on the former, not the latter. But I am biased!
    She simply quoted his side of the story! Its not like she just randomly linked to his Twitter account. He posted a tweet about the incident and she quoted him, showing his side of the story.
    SO was part of the Laura pile on:

    https://twitter.com/SpaJw/status/1174342182939111425?s=20
  • Yes and no.

    1) this is something we mentioned the other day in regard to an academic paper on fake news about likely winners being spread through social media.

    2) this is the reverse of what many (mainly Tory) people say happened in 2017 -- that Labour did well because voters thought Labour could not win so was a safe protest vote.

    3) and that is also how Mrs Thatcher became Conservative leader. Airey Neave's strategy was to tell MPs that she could not win so it was a safe way to send a wake-up call to Ted Heath.
  • ukelectukelect Posts: 140
    According to the latest UK-Elect Beta version (taking account of Brexit-based local conditions, tactical voting etc.) that YouGov poll would lead to another hung parliament: Con 305, Lab 185, LibDem 82, SNP 51
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    148grss said:

    TGOHF said:
    Like the lefty attacks from such people as... well know legal writer for the Financial Times

    https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1174409107681492992
    Yes absolutely. You think David Allen Green is anything more than extreme partisan hack who hates Brexit and the government?

    The father Tweeted his POV and LauraK quoted and retweeted what he had to say. To call that irresponsible is bizarre. LauraK didn't "out" the father he put it out himself!
    This is the tweet that many are objecting to. The fact that it's subsequently been removed from LK's current twitter timeline tells you all you need to know.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1174318249460281346?s=20

    I think the Tweet that most objected to was the follow-up in which LK actually identified the bloke's Twitter account and, in doing so, invited a pile on. That was the one that got me. I just didn't see any reason for it. But we all view things in different ways. For me, the story was not the fact that the parent with the child that almost died was a Labour activist, it was that the PM's first reaction to being confronted was to lie. I found it bizarre that LK focused on the former, not the latter. But I am biased!
    You mean this one? Where he identifies himself?

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1174318564397985793?s=20
    If a child of mine was close to death in intensive care, I think it’s unlikely I’d be tweeting about politics

    Each to their own
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Foxy said:

    Trudeau. Lol. I think by the millennium we knew the black and white minstrels were racist bucko. I wonder if he put on a funny accent too, the naughty little noodle.
    I love it when these super woke pricks turn out to be full of wind and piss

    His apology seems to show that at the time he was in a pre-woke state of unaware ness. A bit like Harry was. Some personal moral growth is a good thing surely?
    If it were simply a case of a little moral growth then sure, but it's not. It's the usual hypocrisy and the oh so earnest apology when they get caught. And his 'we know better now' shtick is so much bilge, the world's moral centre doesn't evolve with St Justin.
    Not all superheroes wear capes, but none of them brown up.
    Hypocrisy or not (and I tend to your view on that), the apology at the very least recognises blackface as wrong and unacceptable.

    And I doubt many in the UK hold Trudeau as a saint. I certainly don't.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152
    Noo said:

    HYUFD said:

    There is more to morality than class envy socialism or classical liberalism.

    Private schools offer choice and raise standards and offer scholarships and bursaries, we need more private schools not less.

    There is also nothing at all wrong with passing on family wealth and assets and the best achievement of the Cameron Government in my view was raising the inheritance tax threshold to £1 million

    Let's take your assertions in turn:
    "There is more to morality than class envy socialism or classical liberalism."
    TRUE, but that doesn't answer the question, it's merely a slogan. Not worth spending any time discussing.

    "Private schools offer choice..."
    only to some

    "...and raise standards..."
    Evidence please? From where I'm sat they appear to concentrate quality. The can easily be coterminous with an overall decrease in quality.

    "...and offer scholarships and bursaries"
    So there is a redistributive aspect to this world of privilege. But so what? Cui bono? This is merely more of the same. A concentration of quality happens, and a clutch of lucky smart kids are let through the gate to help enjoy it. In other words, of those who are not rich enough to pay, all the surplus goes to a tiny percentage. It's the same inequality but on a different basis. A critic would say this is the most just way of administering systemic injustice.

    "There is also nothing at all wrong with passing on family wealth and assets"
    Well, what if there is? What if the multigenerational stratification of society means that we are no longer rewarding talent and hard work? What does this say about the theory behind the workings of our economy? Patrimonial elites are antithetical to capitalism. With income from wealth rising, we are creating a divide between the haves and have nots. If that gulf becomes so wide that even talent and hard work make it uncrossable, what incentives are left for the innovator? Have you seen the decline in numbers of new businesses over the past few decades? Do you understand why that is worrying?

    "the best achievement of the Cameron Government"
    that might be damning through faint praise, albeit unintentionally.
    Despite your hard left rant our top private schools are amongst the best in the world attracting pupils from across the world, particularly the Far East for that reason. While the scholarships they provide enable that outstanding education to be offered to many whose parents could not otherwise afford the fees.

    For most people in this country their biggest asset is their house and no surprise they wish to build up a nest egg for themselves and their family, which is why we are fortunate to have one of the highest net worths per adult in the developed world.

  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    ukelect said:

    According to the latest UK-Elect Beta version (taking account of Brexit-based local conditions, tactical voting etc.) that YouGov poll would lead to another hung parliament: Con 305, Lab 185, LibDem 82, SNP 51

    FPTP
    smh
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    HYUFD said:


    Despite your hard left rant

    I got as far as "hard left rant" and stopped reading. Just so you know, I talked about defending capitalism in my post. If you can't be bothered to read my contribution, please don't bother replying. For your sake as much as mine, because you look like a fool when you say things like that.
  • ukelect said:

    According to the latest UK-Elect Beta version (taking account of Brexit-based local conditions, tactical voting etc.) that YouGov poll would lead to another hung parliament: Con 305, Lab 185, LibDem 82, SNP 51

    Which should also lead to PR as that outcome would be pretty outrageous vis a vis relative voting share.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Anecdote alert. There’s an old Geordie man wearing a ‘don’t blame me, I voted remain’ badge on the bus I’m on, going through North Tyneside. :D
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Trudeau. Lol. I think by the millennium we knew the black and white minstrels were racist bucko. I wonder if he put on a funny accent too, the naughty little noodle.
    I love it when these super woke pricks turn out to be full of wind and piss

    His apology seems to show that at the time he was in a pre-woke state of unaware ness. A bit like Harry was. Some personal moral growth is a good thing surely?
    If it were simply a case of a little moral growth then sure, but it's not. It's the usual hypocrisy and the oh so earnest apology when they get caught. And his 'we know better now' shtick is so much bilge, the world's moral centre doesn't evolve with St Justin.
    Not all superheroes wear capes, but none of them brown up.
    Hypocrisy or not (and I tend to your view on that), the apology at the very least recognises blackface as wrong and unacceptable.

    And I doubt many in the UK hold Trudeau as a saint. I certainly don't.
    Trudeau deserves to be attacked for this, but oh my. Trudeau is to the right what Kuenssberg is to the left. Utterly irrational levels of fury for people who otherwise don't give two hoots about Canadian politics.
    I have never understood why he winds them up so much.
  • Scott_P said:
    This has already happened. We had the TIG false start which has quickly collapsed and been replaced by the remergence of the LibDems.

    I get the LibDems. I am a pragmatist who now hates the absolutists on the left as much as I hate the absolutists on the right. I've said some bad things about the party in the past as they have done bad things, but pragmatism draws a line and moves on. I'd rather work with sane people like Swinson who can draw in other sane people from across the spectrum than have to self apologise for clinging to sane people like Starmer and Phillips against the scourge of people like Jezziah.

    Not joining them. But definitely listening to them.
    Well said. I come to a similar conclusion from the other political direction. The only way the two main parties will become more sensible and less dogmatic will be to fracture both of them. I hope Jo Swinson does well. She also looks and sounds refreshing when compared to Bozo and Mr Thicky.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201

    Prospective Parliamentary Candidates.

    They have not "decided to stand candidates" until the form goes in. It's a fluid situation and negotations are going on. Selecting a PPC means they're prepared if the negotiations don't bear fruit... but doesn't necessarily mean they'll actually fight the seat.

    I'm not going by a tweet and I know the LibDems involved - they certainly think they're standing and there are no negotiations that they're aware of.
    In case you have not seen it, here is the newly selected Con candidate for Broxtowe.

    https://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2019/09/darren-henry-selected-as-conservative-candidate-for-broxtowe.html
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited September 2019
    Can I put on record I couldn't give two flying ***** about the fall out between The Cameron's and Gove-Vine's?

    Make it up. Don't make it. Who actually gives a **** ? :D
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Anecdote alert. There’s an old Geordie man wearing a ‘don’t blame me, I voted remain’ badge on the bus I’m on, going through North Tyneside. :D

    I also note that he hasn’t been viscously attacked, as @Byronic suggested might happen.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Trudeau. Lol. I think by the millennium we knew the black and white minstrels were racist bucko. I wonder if he put on a funny accent too, the naughty little noodle.
    I love it when these super woke pricks turn out to be full of wind and piss

    His apology seems to show that at the time he was in a pre-woke state of unaware ness. A bit like Harry was. Some personal moral growth is a good thing surely?
    If it were simply a case of a little moral growth then sure, but it's not. It's the usual hypocrisy and the oh so earnest apology when they get caught. And his 'we know better now' shtick is so much bilge, the world's moral centre doesn't evolve with St Justin.
    Not all superheroes wear capes, but none of them brown up.
    Hypocrisy or not (and I tend to your view on that), the apology at the very least recognises blackface as wrong and unacceptable.

    And I doubt many in the UK hold Trudeau as a saint. I certainly don't.
    Yeah but he got caught. He had to apologize. Its meaningless. Contrition is admitting to wrongdoing and apologising before you get caught out, not fire fighting when you do.
    It's like Andrew saying what Epstein did was awful etc when it's only after the fact hes had this revelation. Too many of these people held up as progressives, moral leaders etc are the very opposite, and merely wear the costumes of same for political or personal advancement.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,893

    Anecdote alert. There’s an old Geordie man wearing a ‘don’t blame me, I voted remain’ badge on the bus I’m on, going through North Tyneside. :D

    I also note that he hasn’t been viscously attacked, as @Byronic suggested might happen.
    Or even runnily? (I do hope not, either way!)
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Carnyx said:

    Anecdote alert. There’s an old Geordie man wearing a ‘don’t blame me, I voted remain’ badge on the bus I’m on, going through North Tyneside. :D

    I also note that he hasn’t been viscously attacked, as @Byronic suggested might happen.
    Or even runnily? (I do hope not, either way!)
    My bad!
  • ukelect said:

    According to the latest UK-Elect Beta version (taking account of Brexit-based local conditions, tactical voting etc.) that YouGov poll would lead to another hung parliament: Con 305, Lab 185, LibDem 82, SNP 51

    Which should also lead to PR as that outcome would be pretty outrageous vis a vis relative voting share.
    Once Labour realises it can never win again under FPTP, PR is inevitable.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    edited September 2019

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Trudeau. Lol. I think by the millennium we knew the black and white minstrels were racist bucko. I wonder if he put on a funny accent too, the naughty little noodle.
    I love it when these super woke pricks turn out to be full of wind and piss

    His apology seems to show that at the time he was in a pre-woke state of unaware ness. A bit like Harry was. Some personal moral growth is a good thing surely?
    If it were simply a case of a little moral growth then sure, but it's not. It's the usual hypocrisy and the oh so earnest apology when they get caught. And his 'we know better now' shtick is so much bilge, the world's moral centre doesn't evolve with St Justin.
    Not all superheroes wear capes, but none of them brown up.
    Hypocrisy or not (and I tend to your view on that), the apology at the very least recognises blackface as wrong and unacceptable.

    And I doubt many in the UK hold Trudeau as a saint. I certainly don't.
    Yeah but he got caught. He had to apologize. Its meaningless. Contrition is admitting to wrongdoing and apologising before you get caught out, not fire fighting when you do.
    It's like Andrew saying what Epstein did was awful etc when it's only after the fact hes had this revelation. Too many of these people held up as progressives, moral leaders etc are the very opposite, and merely wear the costumes of same for political or personal advancement.
    So what ?
    I'm quite content that he got caught, has apologised, and his electorate (and party) will make of it what they will.
    The encouraging thing for me is that the climate genuinely has changed in the last twenty years. I don't think this sets that back in any way.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Anecdote alert. There’s an old Geordie man wearing a ‘don’t blame me, I voted remain’ badge on the bus I’m on, going through North Tyneside. :D

    I also note that he hasn’t been viscously attacked, as @Byronic suggested might happen.
    On the contrary, there has been an abundance of treacly commentary. :smile:
  • Streeter said:

    ukelect said:

    According to the latest UK-Elect Beta version (taking account of Brexit-based local conditions, tactical voting etc.) that YouGov poll would lead to another hung parliament: Con 305, Lab 185, LibDem 82, SNP 51

    Which should also lead to PR as that outcome would be pretty outrageous vis a vis relative voting share.
    Once Labour realises it can never win again under FPTP, PR is inevitable.
    Then the two party system is completely finished
  • HYUFD said:

    This is good for Jo Swinson but (depending on the dates) might be more about being on telly at the conference than the policy: Bollocks to Brexit was not coined last week. Labour's attack on private schools might also be a factor. Let us see if it outlasts the conference season.

    Boris, Cummings and CCHQ will no doubt be commissioning more detailed private polls to work out where the LibDem resurgence threatens Tory or Labour constituencies. This might be crucial in a snap election.

    Can somebody please give me a moral reasoning for the existence of private schools?

    They seem to be the polar opposite of meritocratic, same as inheritance tax I guess.

    There is more to morality than class envy socialism or classical liberalism.

    Private schools offer choice and raise standards and offer scholarships and bursaries, we need more private schools not less.

    There is also nothing at all wrong with passing on family wealth and assets and the best achievement of the Cameron Government in my view was raising the inheritance tax threshold to £1 million
    George then unveiled what I termed his ‘hammock idea’, the conference announcement he’d always dream up while reclining somewhere hot over the summer. This year was the biggest yet: raising the inheritance tax threshold to £1 million. It was deeply Conservative, rewarding people who worked hard, saved and wanted to pass something on.
    David Cameron, For the Record. In all good bookshops today.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Anecdote alert. There’s an old Geordie man wearing a ‘don’t blame me, I voted remain’ badge on the bus I’m on, going through North Tyneside. :D

    I also note that he hasn’t been viscously attacked, as @Byronic suggested might happen.
    Blood (and soil) is thicker than water?
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155

    148grss:

    I think you make a good analysis. My own view is that this exposes a contradiction in our model of government - that you can have a sovereign parliament and the royal prerogative simultaneously. It seems we need to either:

    a) Reform the prerogative
    b) A Monarch who does not simply 'act on the advice' of her Prime minister in all situations.

    Her Majesty's desire to be above politics could be seen as a weakness by the wrong sort of people.

    The tension seems to arise really from the FTPA; without this act the PM would have just called an election rather than prorogue parliament, and that would have been the release valve for the current constitutional tension.

    The FTPA needs to be repealed, rewritten, and really seriously debated before being accepted again.
  • ukelectukelect Posts: 140

    ukelect said:

    According to the latest UK-Elect Beta version (taking account of Brexit-based local conditions, tactical voting etc.) that YouGov poll would lead to another hung parliament: Con 305, Lab 185, LibDem 82, SNP 51

    Which should also lead to PR as that outcome would be pretty outrageous vis a vis relative voting share.
    If the forecast used a simple uniform national swing (without any Brexit-based tactical voting) it would be even worse compared to relative voting share, more like Con 325 Lab 211 SNP 51 LibDem 39
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    Streeter said:

    ukelect said:

    According to the latest UK-Elect Beta version (taking account of Brexit-based local conditions, tactical voting etc.) that YouGov poll would lead to another hung parliament: Con 305, Lab 185, LibDem 82, SNP 51

    Which should also lead to PR as that outcome would be pretty outrageous vis a vis relative voting share.
    Once Labour realises it can never win again under FPTP, PR is inevitable.
    If anyone wants to for a government with Lib Der support, that is also likely true.

    I don't think they would be fobbed off with a few ministerial cars and a referendum on AV next time around.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    I’m now going through NE3. Shout out to @TOPPING.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    HYUFD said:

    This is good for Jo Swinson but (depending on the dates) might be more about being on telly at the conference than the policy: Bollocks to Brexit was not coined last week. Labour's attack on private schools might also be a factor. Let us see if it outlasts the conference season.

    Boris, Cummings and CCHQ will no doubt be commissioning more detailed private polls to work out where the LibDem resurgence threatens Tory or Labour constituencies. This might be crucial in a snap election.

    Can somebody please give me a moral reasoning for the existence of private schools?

    They seem to be the polar opposite of meritocratic, same as inheritance tax I guess.

    There is more to morality than class envy socialism or classical liberalism.

    Private schools offer choice and raise standards and offer scholarships and bursaries, we need more private schools not less.

    There is also nothing at all wrong with passing on family wealth and assets and the best achievement of the Cameron Government in my view was raising the inheritance tax threshold to £1 million
    George then unveiled what I termed his ‘hammock idea’, the conference announcement he’d always dream up while reclining somewhere hot over the summer. This year was the biggest yet: raising the inheritance tax threshold to £1 million. It was deeply Conservative, rewarding people who worked hard, saved and wanted to pass something on.
    David Cameron, For the Record. In all good bookshops today.
    Not if they stock only good books.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    148grss said:

    148grss:

    I think you make a good analysis. My own view is that this exposes a contradiction in our model of government - that you can have a sovereign parliament and the royal prerogative simultaneously. It seems we need to either:

    a) Reform the prerogative
    b) A Monarch who does not simply 'act on the advice' of her Prime minister in all situations.

    Her Majesty's desire to be above politics could be seen as a weakness by the wrong sort of people.

    The tension seems to arise really from the FTPA; without this act the PM would have just called an election rather than prorogue parliament, and that would have been the release valve for the current constitutional tension.

    The FTPA needs to be repealed, rewritten, and really seriously debated before being accepted again.
    +1

  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    I’m now going through NE3. Shout out to @TOPPING.

    Oh, you're in London today!
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Trudeau. Lol. I think by the millennium we knew the black and white minstrels were racist bucko. I wonder if he put on a funny accent too, the naughty little noodle.
    I love it when these super woke pricks turn out to be full of wind and piss

    His apology seems to show that at the time he was in a pre-woke state of unaware ness. A bit like Harry was. Some personal moral growth is a good thing surely?
    If it were simply a case of a little moral growth then sure, but it's not. It's the usual hypocrisy and the oh so earnest apology when they get caught. And his 'we know better now' shtick is so much bilge, the world's moral centre doesn't evolve with St Justin.
    Not all superheroes wear capes, but none of them brown up.
    Hypocrisy or not (and I tend to your view on that), the apology at the very least recognises blackface as wrong and unacceptable.

    And I doubt many in the UK hold Trudeau as a saint. I certainly don't.
    Yeah but he got caught. He had to apologize. Its meaningless. Contrition is admitting to wrongdoing and apologising before you get caught out, not fire fighting when you do.
    It's like Andrew saying what Epstein did was awful etc when it's only after the fact hes had this revelation. Too many of these people held up as progressives, moral leaders etc are the very opposite, and merely wear the costumes of same for political or personal advancement.
    So what ?
    I'm quite content that he got caught, has apologised, and his electorate (and party) will make of it what they will.
    The encouraging thing for me is that the climate genuinely has changed in the last twenty years. I don't think this sets that back in any way.
    Fair enough. The climate has changed yes, despite the likes of Justin Trudeau, however much he tries to conflate his moral journey with the world's (is my take on it)
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited September 2019


    Then the two party system is completely finished

    MPs should fix it now. Corbyn gets to hang on to Labour while he purges it of Blairites and other desirables, the LibDems obviously get what they want, and the ex-Cons can make themselves a "Conservative But Without The Crazy Party" that will get >5% under PR and save their otherwise doomed careers. They've got a majority, what are they waiting for?
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    I have a real problem with FPTP and FTPA. I always have to stop and say the words in my head to make sure I'm reading what I think I'm reading.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468


    Then the two party system is completely finished

    MPs should fix it now. Corbyn gets to hang on to Labour while he purges it of Blairites and other desirables, the LibDems obviously get what they want, and the ex-Cons can make themselves a "Conservative But Without The Crazy Party" that will get >5% under PR and save their otherwise doomed careers. They've got a majority, what are they waiting for?
    No mandate unfortunately.
  • On a totally different subject, I just had what I assume was an interesting scam. Someone called my landline to say "This is BT to inform you that your line will be cancelled today. Press 1 to discuss the issue or 2 to continue the termination process." Probably if one presses anything one signs into some premium line costing £10 a minute...

    Can someone pressing a button on an incoming call lead you to being charged?

    I'd assume if you pressed one they'd identify you as a mug who will be told by someone in a call centre that the line is being disconnected due to an outstanding bill but termination can be halted by giving them your bank or card details.
    Both are true. Pressing a button can transfer the call to a premium line, but there's also the 'pay us xxx with your card and you're good' and then clean you out
    That first shouldn't be possible since yours was an incoming call. AFAIK we don't pay for incoming calls in this country, except for collect calls [which I never hear of nowadays]. The phone service suppliers should be made liable for any such scam.
  • Anecdote alert. There’s an old Geordie man wearing a ‘don’t blame me, I voted remain’ badge on the bus I’m on, going through North Tyneside. :D

    Howay the lads. Tell him it's canny.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    Jean Luc Melenchon the leader of the far left in France is up in court for protesting against government led searches of his offices.

    http://www.lefigaro.fr/politique/le-scan/perquisitions-a-lfi-le-proces-de-jean-luc-melenchon-s-ouvre-ce-jeudi-20190919
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,289
    Noo said:

    I’m now going through NE3. Shout out to @TOPPING.

    Oh, you're in London today!
    Just don't tell TSE, BJO, Pulpstar et al that they actually live in sarf London.

    They haven't noticed yet ;)
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380


    Then the two party system is completely finished

    MPs should fix it now. Corbyn gets to hang on to Labour while he purges it of Blairites and other desirables, the LibDems obviously get what they want, and the ex-Cons can make themselves a "Conservative But Without The Crazy Party" that will get >5% under PR and save their otherwise doomed careers. They've got a majority, what are they waiting for?
    It can't be done in a hurry. Decisions need to be made, such as the mechanism for making it proportional... open lists? Regions a la Holyrood? Does the electoral commission need to be involved?
    It's urgent, but it should be done well, which means taking our time about it. Start now though.
  • Noo said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Trudeau. Lol. I think by the millennium we knew the black and white minstrels were racist bucko. I wonder if he put on a funny accent too, the naughty little noodle.
    I love it when these super woke pricks turn out to be full of wind and piss

    His apology seems to show that at the time he was in a pre-woke state of unaware ness. A bit like Harry was. Some personal moral growth is a good thing surely?
    If it were simply a case of a little moral growth then sure, but it's not. It's the usual hypocrisy and the oh so earnest apology when they get caught. And his 'we know better now' shtick is so much bilge, the world's moral centre doesn't evolve with St Justin.
    Not all superheroes wear capes, but none of them brown up.
    Hypocrisy or not (and I tend to your view on that), the apology at the very least recognises blackface as wrong and unacceptable.

    And I doubt many in the UK hold Trudeau as a saint. I certainly don't.
    Trudeau deserves to be attacked for this, but oh my. Trudeau is to the right what Kuenssberg is to the left. Utterly irrational levels of fury for people who otherwise don't give two hoots about Canadian politics.
    I have never understood why he winds them up so much.
    It is slightly mysterious, though I'm guessing if Trudeau was plug ugly he wouldn't attract quite such opprobrium.

    For maximum gammon Krakatoa, I'm hoping that some sort of award ceremony can be arranged where Justin and Barack hand over a virtuous geegaw to Greta.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Noo said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Trudeau. Lol. I think by the millennium we knew the black and white minstrels were racist bucko. I wonder if he put on a funny accent too, the naughty little noodle.
    I love it when these super woke pricks turn out to be full of wind and piss

    His apology seems to show that at the time he was in a pre-woke state of unaware ness. A bit like Harry was. Some personal moral growth is a good thing surely?
    If it were simply a case of a little moral growth then sure, but it's not. It's the usual hypocrisy and the oh so earnest apology when they get caught. And his 'we know better now' shtick is so much bilge, the world's moral centre doesn't evolve with St Justin.
    Not all superheroes wear capes, but none of them brown up.
    Hypocrisy or not (and I tend to your view on that), the apology at the very least recognises blackface as wrong and unacceptable.

    And I doubt many in the UK hold Trudeau as a saint. I certainly don't.
    Trudeau deserves to be attacked for this, but oh my. Trudeau is to the right what Kuenssberg is to the left. Utterly irrational levels of fury for people who otherwise don't give two hoots about Canadian politics.
    I have never understood why he winds them up so much.
    It is slightly mysterious, though I'm guessing if Trudeau was plug ugly he wouldn't attract quite such opprobrium.

    For maximum gammon Krakatoa, I'm hoping that some sort of award ceremony can be arranged where Justin and Barack hand over a virtuous geegaw to Greta.
    The McGQ verdict
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316
    Here’s a reasonably high-res video of the Labour activist who confronted (& was lied to his face by) Johnson yesterday. Can anyone show me this supposed microphone (with a link to the actual product please)? Because I’m not seeing it. https://twitter.com/gully_burrows/status/1174283589040713728
  • Ok so what is the banking failure event mentioned earlier?
  • Noo said:


    It can't be done in a hurry. Decisions need to be made, such as the mechanism for making it proportional... open lists? Regions a la Holyrood? Does the electoral commission need to be involved?
    It's urgent, but it should be done well, which means taking our time about it. Start now though.

    No need to overthink it, just pick a Scandanavian country and use their system, they're all pretty good
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,893
    Phil said:

    Here’s a reasonably high-res video of the Labour activist who confronted (& was lied to his face by) Johnson yesterday. Can anyone show me this supposed microphone (with a link to the actual product please)? Because I’m not seeing it. https://twitter.com/gully_burrows/status/1174283589040713728

    Actually seems to be the hindmost (middle) loop for the belt on his jeans. They seem to have worn with wear and laundry in a way that simulates a microphone and cord to a certain eye of suspicion.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Noo said:


    It can't be done in a hurry. Decisions need to be made, such as the mechanism for making it proportional... open lists? Regions a la Holyrood? Does the electoral commission need to be involved?
    It's urgent, but it should be done well, which means taking our time about it. Start now though.

    No need to overthink it, just pick a Scandanavian country and use their system, they're all pretty good
    Or even more simplistic, copy Ireland.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Noo said:


    It can't be done in a hurry. Decisions need to be made, such as the mechanism for making it proportional... open lists? Regions a la Holyrood? Does the electoral commission need to be involved?
    It's urgent, but it should be done well, which means taking our time about it. Start now though.

    No need to overthink it, just pick a Scandanavian country and use their system, they're all pretty good
    150 four member constituencies elected by STV the only issue is to sort out the boundaries.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Carnyx said:

    Phil said:

    Here’s a reasonably high-res video of the Labour activist who confronted (& was lied to his face by) Johnson yesterday. Can anyone show me this supposed microphone (with a link to the actual product please)? Because I’m not seeing it. https://twitter.com/gully_burrows/status/1174283589040713728

    Actually seems to be the hindmost (middle) loop for the belt on his jeans. They seem to have worn with wear and laundry in a way that simulates a microphone and cord to a certain eye of suspicion.
    Do you mean the pleb didn’t buy new jeans?
  • Noo said:


    It can't be done in a hurry. Decisions need to be made, such as the mechanism for making it proportional... open lists? Regions a la Holyrood? Does the electoral commission need to be involved?
    It's urgent, but it should be done well, which means taking our time about it. Start now though.

    No need to overthink it, just pick a Scandanavian country and use their system, they're all pretty good
    Or even more simplistic, copy Ireland.
    The ultimate humiliation.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited September 2019
    Phil said:

    Here’s a reasonably high-res video of the Labour activist who confronted (& was lied to his face by) Johnson yesterday. Can anyone show me this supposed microphone (with a link to the actual product please)? Because I’m not seeing it. https://twitter.com/gully_burrows/status/1174283589040713728

    Right at the end when the chap is being led away with his back to the camera, is he wearing a mic pack on his belt, or is that just his belt?

    btw this is all a distraction from whether the PM blatantly lied for no apparent reason.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,856

    HYUFD said:

    This is good for Jo Swinson but (depending on the dates) might be more about being on telly at the conference than the policy: Bollocks to Brexit was not coined last week. Labour's attack on private schools might also be a factor. Let us see if it outlasts the conference season.

    Boris, Cummings and CCHQ will no doubt be commissioning more detailed private polls to work out where the LibDem resurgence threatens Tory or Labour constituencies. This might be crucial in a snap election.

    Can somebody please give me a moral reasoning for the existence of private schools?

    They seem to be the polar opposite of meritocratic, same as inheritance tax I guess.

    There is more to morality than class envy socialism or classical liberalism.

    Private schools offer choice and raise standards and offer scholarships and bursaries, we need more private schools not less.

    There is also nothing at all wrong with passing on family wealth and assets and the best achievement of the Cameron Government in my view was raising the inheritance tax threshold to £1 million
    George then unveiled what I termed his ‘hammock idea’, the conference announcement he’d always dream up while reclining somewhere hot over the summer. This year was the biggest yet: raising the inheritance tax threshold to £1 million. It was deeply Conservative, rewarding people who worked hard, saved and wanted to pass something on.
    David Cameron, For the Record. In all good bookshops today.
    The trouble is there is a contradiction in that. The people who REALLY benefit from inheritance are not those who have worked hard.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Can any of the conspiracy theorists claiming the guy was wearing a Sennheiser G4 radio transmitter tell me who is supposed to have had the receiver?
  • nichomar said:

    Noo said:


    It can't be done in a hurry. Decisions need to be made, such as the mechanism for making it proportional... open lists? Regions a la Holyrood? Does the electoral commission need to be involved?
    It's urgent, but it should be done well, which means taking our time about it. Start now though.

    No need to overthink it, just pick a Scandanavian country and use their system, they're all pretty good
    150 four member constituencies elected by STV the only issue is to sort out the boundaries.
    There you go, we've fixed it already. Pass the law through both houses, which it now turns out takes literally like 48 hours, and we're done.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Anecdote alert. There’s an old Geordie man wearing a ‘don’t blame me, I voted remain’ badge on the bus I’m on, going through North Tyneside. :D

    Times are hard at the BBC as Alan Shearer takes the bus ?!?
  • Absolutely the sensible position to take.

    The border is real and exists, if the Irish wish to pretend it doesn't maybe the should start by harmonising their corporation tax rates and other taxes etc?

    Otherwise the purpose of a deal should be to avoid friction, not to avoid a border.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    edited September 2019

    Phil said:

    Here’s a reasonably high-res video of the Labour activist who confronted (& was lied to his face by) Johnson yesterday. Can anyone show me this supposed microphone (with a link to the actual product please)? Because I’m not seeing it. https://twitter.com/gully_burrows/status/1174283589040713728

    Right at the end when the chap is being led away with his back to the camera, is he wearing a mic pack on his belt, or is that just his belt?

    btw this is all a distraction from whether the PM blatantly lied for no apparent reason.
    Given the amount of effort being spent on this distraction it's clear people supporting Boris know he has been caught lying (again).
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,893

    Carnyx said:

    Phil said:

    Here’s a reasonably high-res video of the Labour activist who confronted (& was lied to his face by) Johnson yesterday. Can anyone show me this supposed microphone (with a link to the actual product please)? Because I’m not seeing it. https://twitter.com/gully_burrows/status/1174283589040713728

    Actually seems to be the hindmost (middle) loop for the belt on his jeans. They seem to have worn with wear and laundry in a way that simulates a microphone and cord to a certain eye of suspicion.
    Do you mean the pleb didn’t buy new jeans?
    Quite right too - this way he could be sure they were clean (in a hospital environment, microbes brought in on mucky clothing are a real problem).
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605
    ukelect said:

    According to the latest UK-Elect Beta version (taking account of Brexit-based local conditions, tactical voting etc.) that YouGov poll would lead to another hung parliament: Con 305, Lab 185, LibDem 82, SNP 51

    According to my own tactical voting beta version, on the latest YouGov poll, it would lead to Con 304, Lab 219, LD 57, SNP 51 - a hung parliament.

    On the EMA, which only gives 10% weighting to that latest poll, it would lead to Con 294, Lab 236, LD 50, SNP 51.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    148grss said:

    148grss:

    I think you make a good analysis. My own view is that this exposes a contradiction in our model of government - that you can have a sovereign parliament and the royal prerogative simultaneously. It seems we need to either:

    a) Reform the prerogative
    b) A Monarch who does not simply 'act on the advice' of her Prime minister in all situations.

    Her Majesty's desire to be above politics could be seen as a weakness by the wrong sort of people.

    The tension seems to arise really from the FTPA; without this act the PM would have just called an election rather than prorogue parliament, and that would have been the release valve for the current constitutional tension.

    The FTPA needs to be repealed, rewritten, and really seriously debated before being accepted again.
    +1

    I think just the once ought to suffice.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited September 2019
    Scott_P said:

    Can any of the conspiracy theorists claiming the guy was wearing a Sennheiser G4 radio transmitter tell me who is supposed to have had the receiver?

    There's a bloke on a thing called twitter who seems to have started the rumour, why not ask him?

    Have you got an account?
  • 148grss said:

    TGOHF said:
    Like the lefty attacks from such people as... well know legal writer for the Financial Times

    https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1174409107681492992
    Yes absolutely. You think David Allen Green is anything more than extreme partisan hack who hates Brexit and the government?

    The father Tweeted his POV and LauraK quoted and retweeted what he had to say. To call that irresponsible is bizarre. LauraK didn't "out" the father he put it out himself!
    This is the tweet that many are objecting to. The fact that it's subsequently been removed from LK's current twitter timeline tells you all you need to know.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1174318249460281346?s=20

    I think the Tweet that most objected to was the follow-up in which LK actually identified the bloke's Twitter account and, in doing so, invited a pile on. That was the one that got me. I just didn't see any reason for it. But we all view things in different ways. For me, the story was not the fact that the parent with the child that almost died was a Labour activist, it was that the PM's first reaction to being confronted was to lie. I found it bizarre that LK focused on the former, not the latter. But I am biased!
    She did criticise him as a 'rabbit caught in the headlights.'

    There is no excuse for abuse but we all know what twitter is like. If you publicly confront the PM like that it will generate interest in yourself.

    Of course - as I say, I am biased.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238


    Then the two party system is completely finished

    MPs should fix it now. Corbyn gets to hang on to Labour while he purges it of Blairites and other desirables, the LibDems obviously get what they want, and the ex-Cons can make themselves a "Conservative But Without The Crazy Party" that will get >5% under PR and save their otherwise doomed careers. They've got a majority, what are they waiting for?
    It's a tempting prospect. Corbyn will never go for it, though.
  • The LD position of revoke and remain, whilst very good for their voteshare, also opens a door for the Conservatives to fall through. Given Mr. Rees-Mogg has ruled out an electoral pact with BXP they will now have a way to put up their large slate of candidates with the equally simple and effective “leave now, no deal” platform. If the PM fails to get a deal through before a general election then they are in the same position as Labour. Both of their vote bases will be shredded.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Phil said:

    Here’s a reasonably high-res video of the Labour activist who confronted (& was lied to his face by) Johnson yesterday. Can anyone show me this supposed microphone (with a link to the actual product please)? Because I’m not seeing it. https://twitter.com/gully_burrows/status/1174283589040713728

    It's a belt
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    John Major, hypocrite yes, still presenting some seriously concerning arguments for why prorogation should not be unlimited.

    https://twitter.com/mattholehouse/status/1174609484695646208
  • OT if any pb reader combines an interest in court proceedings and books published this very day, the new Dick Francis book, Guilty Not Guilty, starts with a lengthy explanation of barristers, solicitors and so on, and will pass the time until David Cameron is on BBC One tonight and the beaks make up their minds on Boris and prorogationgate.
    https://www.simonandschuster.co.uk/books/Guilty-Not-Guilty/Felix-Francis/9781471173165
  • GIN1138 said:

    Can I put on record I couldn't give two flying ***** about the fall out between The Cameron's and Gove-Vine's?

    Make it up. Don't make it. Who actually gives a **** ? :D

    Me too, but I do give a flying ***** about the fact that Cameron considers it quite acceptable to disclose to the public the gist of a supposedly confidential conversation he had with the Queen. And I think that she will too. The man is a disgrace.
  • 148grss said:

    TGOHF said:
    Like the lefty attacks from such people as... well know legal writer for the Financial Times

    https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1174409107681492992
    Yes absolutely. You think David Allen Green is anything more than extreme partisan hack who hates Brexit and the government?

    The father Tweeted his POV and LauraK quoted and retweeted what he had to say. To call that irresponsible is bizarre. LauraK didn't "out" the father he put it out himself!
    This is the tweet that many are objecting to. The fact that it's subsequently been removed from LK's current twitter timeline tells you all you need to know.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1174318249460281346?s=20

    I think the Tweet that most objected to was the follow-up in which LK actually identified the bloke's Twitter account and, in doing so, invited a pile on. That was the one that got me. I just didn't see any reason for it. But we all view things in different ways. For me, the story was not the fact that the parent with the child that almost died was a Labour activist, it was that the PM's first reaction to being confronted was to lie. I found it bizarre that LK focused on the former, not the latter. But I am biased!
    You mean this one? Where he identifies himself?

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1174318564397985793?s=20

    Yep, that one. I am biased, I know, but I just did not get why that was the thing to follow-up on rather than the PM lying. I also wondered how LK found out who Omar was in the first place. Who told her - and why. That said, it's all a storm in a teacup.

  • 148grss said:

    TGOHF said:
    Like the lefty attacks from such people as... well know legal writer for the Financial Times

    https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1174409107681492992
    Yes absolutely. You think David Allen Green is anything more than extreme partisan hack who hates Brexit and the government?

    The father Tweeted his POV and LauraK quoted and retweeted what he had to say. To call that irresponsible is bizarre. LauraK didn't "out" the father he put it out himself!
    This is the tweet that many are objecting to. The fact that it's subsequently been removed from LK's current twitter timeline tells you all you need to know.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1174318249460281346?s=20

    I think the Tweet that most objected to was the follow-up in which LK actually identified the bloke's Twitter account and, in doing so, invited a pile on. That was the one that got me. I just didn't see any reason for it. But we all view things in different ways. For me, the story was not the fact that the parent with the child that almost died was a Labour activist, it was that the PM's first reaction to being confronted was to lie. I found it bizarre that LK focused on the former, not the latter. But I am biased!
    She did criticise him as a 'rabbit caught in the headlights.'

    There is no excuse for abuse but we all know what twitter is like. If you publicly confront the PM like that it will generate interest in yourself.

    Of course - as I say, I am biased.

    I think it was beneath you.

    Up until now, I’d assumed you’d posted that tweet sarcastically.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    148grss said:

    TGOHF said:
    Like the lefty attacks from such people as... well know legal writer for the Financial Times

    https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1174409107681492992
    Yes absolutely. You think David Allen Green is anything more than extreme partisan hack who hates Brexit and the government?

    The father Tweeted his POV and LauraK quoted and retweeted what he had to say. To call that irresponsible is bizarre. LauraK didn't "out" the father he put it out himself!
    This is the tweet that many are objecting to. The fact that it's subsequently been removed from LK's current twitter timeline tells you all you need to know.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1174318249460281346?s=20

    I think the Tweet that most objected to was the follow-up in which LK actually identified the bloke's Twitter account and, in doing so, invited a pile on. That was the one that got me. I just didn't see any reason for it. But we all view things in different ways. For me, the story was not the fact that the parent with the child that almost died was a Labour activist, it was that the PM's first reaction to being confronted was to lie. I found it bizarre that LK focused on the former, not the latter. But I am biased!
    You mean this one? Where he identifies himself?

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1174318564397985793?s=20

    Yep, that one. I am biased, I know, but I just did not get why that was the thing to follow-up on rather than the PM lying. I also wondered how LK found out who Omar was in the first place. Who told her - and why. That said, it's all a storm in a teacup.

    Maybe she has researchers at the bbc who look into who people involved in news stories are
  • 148grss said:

    TGOHF said:
    Like the lefty attacks from such people as... well know legal writer for the Financial Times

    https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1174409107681492992
    Yes absolutely. You think David Allen Green is anything more than extreme partisan hack who hates Brexit and the government?

    The father Tweeted his POV and LauraK quoted and retweeted what he had to say. To call that irresponsible is bizarre. LauraK didn't "out" the father he put it out himself!
    This is the tweet that many are objecting to. The fact that it's subsequently been removed from LK's current twitter timeline tells you all you need to know.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1174318249460281346?s=20

    I think the Tweet that most objected to was the follow-up in which LK actually identified the bloke's Twitter account and, in doing so, invited a pile on. That was the one that got me. I just didn't see any reason for it. But we all view things in different ways. For me, the story was not the fact that the parent with the child that almost died was a Labour activist, it was that the PM's first reaction to being confronted was to lie. I found it bizarre that LK focused on the former, not the latter. But I am biased!
    You mean this one? Where he identifies himself?

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1174318564397985793?s=20

    I also wondered how LK found out who Omar was in the first place.

    research.
  • Prospective Parliamentary Candidates.

    They have not "decided to stand candidates" until the form goes in. It's a fluid situation and negotations are going on. Selecting a PPC means they're prepared if the negotiations don't bear fruit... but doesn't necessarily mean they'll actually fight the seat.

    I'm not going by a tweet and I know the LibDems involved - they certainly think they're standing and there are no negotiations that they're aware of.
    I'll defer to your greater knowledge! But nonetheless the point stands - everything could change until the forms go in.

    (Or even afterwards: locally the LDs put up a candidate for county council and then said "actually, vote Green" on the first day of campaigning, which got them some column inches. Still didn't get the seat, mind, but the Labour victor is a top bloke and not far off the social democrat wing of the LDs so no harm done.)

    Slightly OT, but I wonder if the much-discussed tweet about Lib Dems cancelling their Canterbury selection was not to do with the Labour incumbent defecting, but rather finding a winnable seat for Sam Gyimah?
  • 148grss said:

    John Major, hypocrite yes, still presenting some seriously concerning arguments for why prorogation should not be unlimited.

    https://twitter.com/mattholehouse/status/1174609484695646208

    I am not sure how strong this argument is if we consider that the ability to declare war is normally considered non-justifiable. If you can send the army to their deaths somewhere then I think you can disband them.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Prospective Parliamentary Candidates.

    They have not "decided to stand candidates" until the form goes in. It's a fluid situation and negotations are going on. Selecting a PPC means they're prepared if the negotiations don't bear fruit... but doesn't necessarily mean they'll actually fight the seat.

    I'm not going by a tweet and I know the LibDems involved - they certainly think they're standing and there are no negotiations that they're aware of.
    I'll defer to your greater knowledge! But nonetheless the point stands - everything could change until the forms go in.

    (Or even afterwards: locally the LDs put up a candidate for county council and then said "actually, vote Green" on the first day of campaigning, which got them some column inches. Still didn't get the seat, mind, but the Labour victor is a top bloke and not far off the social democrat wing of the LDs so no harm done.)

    Slightly OT, but I wonder if the much-discussed tweet about Lib Dems cancelling their Canterbury selection was not to do with the Labour incumbent defecting, but rather finding a winnable seat for Sam Gyimah?
    LDs got 8% in 2017. Canterbury is not a winnable search for them
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    edited September 2019
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155

    148grss said:

    John Major, hypocrite yes, still presenting some seriously concerning arguments for why prorogation should not be unlimited.

    https://twitter.com/mattholehouse/status/1174609484695646208

    I am not sure how strong this argument is if we consider that the ability to declare war is normally considered non-justifiable. If you can send the army to their deaths somewhere then I think you can disband them.
    One would assume that would need parliamentary approval, not executive fiat. And I'm more convinced by the 1st and 3rd examples, which are very much regarding the ability to skirt the operations of parliament in such a way as to make the prerogative power of prorogation almost limitless.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    I think if you have 13,500 followers on Twitter, you should expect to be identified if you confront the PM.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316

    Phil said:

    Here’s a reasonably high-res video of the Labour activist who confronted (& was lied to his face by) Johnson yesterday. Can anyone show me this supposed microphone (with a link to the actual product please)? Because I’m not seeing it. https://twitter.com/gully_burrows/status/1174283589040713728

    Right at the end when the chap is being led away with his back to the camera, is he wearing a mic pack on his belt, or is that just his belt?

    btw this is all a distraction from whether the PM blatantly lied for no apparent reason.
    NB. If you go to Twitter itself, you can full-screen the video & get a very clear image. I really cannot see anything on his belt.

    As others have said, this smells like a smokescreen of chaff put up in order to distract from the fact that Johnson lied like a rug when confronted. It’s bizarre behaviour & suggests that he falls apart under scrutiny - can’t possibly bode well for any election campaign.

    I imagine the campaign team will be desperate to keep Jonson away from any kind of hard questioning during the forthcoming election, but keeping that up for an entire campaign seems like a tall order.
  • I am generally no fan of Kuenssberg. However in this case I think her actions were proper taken as a whole. She tweeted the opinion of the person who angrily confronted Johnson at a hospital in the news story of the day. She tweeted her observation (which I think most will share) to the effect that Johnson didn't know how to respond. When it came to light that the person was a Corbyn-supporting Labour activist, she tweeted that too.

    I would wish to know all of those facts before forming an opinion on the matter so I think she has done a reasonable job of reporting them.
  • tlg86 said:

    I think if you have 13,500 followers on Twitter, you should expect to be identified if you confront the PM.

    Is there a particular number threshold for not being identified?

    More to the point, should someone with 1.1m followers be the one doing the identifying?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Phil said:

    Phil said:

    Here’s a reasonably high-res video of the Labour activist who confronted (& was lied to his face by) Johnson yesterday. Can anyone show me this supposed microphone (with a link to the actual product please)? Because I’m not seeing it. https://twitter.com/gully_burrows/status/1174283589040713728

    Right at the end when the chap is being led away with his back to the camera, is he wearing a mic pack on his belt, or is that just his belt?

    btw this is all a distraction from whether the PM blatantly lied for no apparent reason.
    NB. If you go to Twitter itself, you can full-screen the video & get a very clear image. I really cannot see anything on his belt.

    As others have said, this smells like a smokescreen of chaff put up in order to distract from the fact that Johnson lied like a rug when confronted. It’s bizarre behaviour & suggests that he falls apart under scrutiny - can’t possibly bode well for any election campaign.

    I imagine the campaign team will be desperate to keep Jonson away from any kind of hard questioning during the forthcoming election, but keeping that up for an entire campaign seems like a tall order.
    No10 invited the BBC who passed on invite to the other media outlets, they forgot to tell Johnson who thought the TV camera was a new surgical device but as to what he thought the large fluffy microphone was I’d hate to imagine.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    tlg86 said:

    I think if you have 13,500 followers on Twitter, you should expect to be identified if you confront the PM.

    Particularly if you are tweeting about it yourself and wish to put yourself above the parapet. Surely the fact he has worked for Thornberry and is a Labour activist is relevant, people are capable of making their own judgements based on the information and I'm sure he has many grievances with the NHS.

    It's just very sad that the usual extreme nutjobs like Rachel Swindon, James Felton etc do what they do best and create outrage over Laura K's perfectly normal tweet. These people just won't be happy until all journalists parrot their own views. Dangerous times.
This discussion has been closed.