One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
A total failure to understand England. We are different from them, for good or bad. Hence Brexit.
I'm no fan of Boris, but the protestors were making a hell of a racket today, and far louder than anything I've heard from Downing Street. Maybe he should have done the press conference, but it was not a good location if you actually wanted to hear what he had to say.
Boris could do with listening a bit more and talking a bit less.
He could, but that doesn't change the fact that he was expected to speak from a podium that couldn't have been more than 20 metres from protestors, some of who seemed to have megaphones. It was very noisy, and he would have been drowned out.
I’m sure the Luxembourg PM would have asked the crowd to calm down . If they didn’t and it wasn’t possible to continue then fine walk off.
They were hardly scary , did Bozo expect a riot !
No, he rightly expected a press conference that wasn't a set-up to be shouted down.
Fuck off, Luxembourg.
The point is not that it was unexpected, it's that he ran away.
Previous PMs would not have run away, and at least two, possibly three (Wilson, Thatcher, possibly Major) would have been energised by the encounter. In one of my diatribes against Boris before May's resignation I pointed out that the Darius Guppy conversation showed that he was a physical coward: when faced with a frightening situation he grins inanely, does not engage, and runs away. I don't bang on about it (much) because I occasionally want to tal about other things but tonight's encounter just emphasised the point: the man in whom you have placed such store is unworthy.
Boris standing at that podium had no good outcome.
None.
As was intended.
The Luxembourg PM was pissed because he had failed to have his photo-op of embarrassing Boris.
If only I could think of a science-fiction film involving a no-win scenario that serves as a test of character. Still, I suppose the needs of the Boris outweigh the needs of the many...
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
A total failure to understand England. We are different from them, for good or bad. Hence Brexit.
Who is we?
We, the English. The Exceptional Nation.
You think we are ‘exceptional’ but we are not. We are just like all the rest.
We are quite literally not like any nation. The world speaks English, the language of the English people. This is exceptional. Literally.
For now. The world used to speak French. Maybe in the future it will speak Mandarin.
Nothing good has ever come out of a superiority complex.
Very little good has come out of an interiority complex either.
Mr Luxembourg might have thought he was being clever arranging his "ambush" as the DT puts it, and then theatrically motioning towards the empty lectern. However, his puerile antics have not made any progress towards resolving Brexit nor will they have inspired a single Eurosceptic to weaken their resolve. His posturing is no less insulting than Donald Tusk's childish jokes about cherry cakes.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
A total failure to understand England. We are different from them, for good or bad. Hence Brexit.
Who is we?
We, the English. The Exceptional Nation.
You think we are ‘exceptional’ but we are not. We are just like all the rest.
We are quite literally not like any nation. The world speaks English, the language of the English people. This is exceptional. Literally.
For now. The world used to speak French. Maybe in the future it will speak Mandarin.
Nothing good has ever come out of a superiority complex.
Very little good has come out of an interiority complex either.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
In your dreams. Never in reality.
One of the ironies of Brexit is that Britain WAS, slowly, becoming more European, but Brexit in itself has completely stopped this process, what's more, the traumatic way Brexit has played out has made us even less European.
From now on, no other European country will share our experience, no other European country will know what it is like, to try and escape the grotesque nightmare of EU non-democracy.
A huge rift has opened. We stare at each other, across the Channel, in mutual incomprehension.
We will never rejoin, for this reason. Poor old williamglenn.
It makes me quite proud to be British to know that no British PM would go ahead with that press conference, let alone gesture to the empty podium like a third rate comedian.
You'd enjoy the new Downton film. It was full of absurd posturing. One of the many reasons I found it so execrable.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
A total failure to understand England. We are different from them, for good or bad. Hence Brexit.
I'm feeling a bit sorry for Boris actually - if he genuinely felt intimidated by the hecklers then it would have been cruel to send him amongst them. This isn't ancient Rome where they throw people to the lions! Boris is looking a bit of a victim tonight, but that's not always a bad thing (think about the viewing figures these charity shows on the BBC get), so perhaps Cummings will chalk this off as a win.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
I've said for years we should pull the plug on NATO (or at least out involvement in it) and spend the money on the NHS...
I am constantly aghast at the number of Leavers who seem determined, step by step, to declare war on Europe.
Declare war?
Because we decide to end our involvement in in an organization that was set up in the Cold War and is still going strong 30 years after the Cold War ended?
However I am glad to know that you think it's implausible. I hope you are right.
I really can't see any plausible reason why we would want to wage war with Europe.
But then my instinct is to end all of our military entanglements as far as possible.
Stop all of the sily non-wars with USA, stop our involvement with NATO. Scrap Trident etc.
So far so Corbyn.
But where I'd differ from Corbyn is that I'd also want to fund a decent army/navy that can protect this country and it's interests (it's interesting that we fund NATO but if Argentina invaded the Falklands again I'm not sure we'd have thje capacity to defend those Islands again) and massive increase out spending on fighting state-sponsered cyber crime.
It seems to me the real danger is not from Putin rolling tanks into Berlin but from Russian hackers taking over and shutting down the national grid, for example.
The UK reinforced the falkland islands after 1982. Warfare has moved on as we have the ability to fire cruise missiles rather than relie on planes. You are also niave on the russian threat, they still have thousands of nuclear warheads and large conventional forces even if much is dated. If NATO is disbanded. Putin will attempt a land grab...
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
A total failure to understand England. We are different from them, for good or bad. Hence Brexit.
Who is we?
We, the English. The Exceptional Nation.
You think we are ‘exceptional’ but we are not. We are just like all the rest.
We are quite literally not like any nation. The world speaks English, the language of the English people. This is exceptional. Literally.
For now. The world used to speak French. Maybe in the future it will speak Mandarin.
Nothing good has ever come out of a superiority complex.
Very little good has come out of an interiority complex either.
We are trying to do the impossible. Leave the EU. The spectacle will always be comical, because Leaving the EU is meant to be horribly, comically painful. It was designed that way. The EU made it that way. Barnier told us he would do this to us: make it so bad we want to stay. And he is as good as his word.
But we will still Leave. And then things will change for the worse.
Fixed that for you.
Wow. You did the whole "fixed that for you" thing. Well done, that must have been hard, but you went ahead and did it. Just there. I can see it. Yes.
On topic, the only value that I see in these markets is No Deal Brexit.
There is no way that BoZo the clown can negotiate a Deal, or get it past his own party. It is a bet on whether BoZo is gone before Halloween, and I wouldn't price that as more than evens.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
In your dreams. Never in reality.
One of the ironies of Brexit is that Britain WAS, slowly, becoming more European, but Brexit in itself has completely stopped this process, what's more, the traumatic way Brexit has played out has made us even less European.
From now on, no other European country will share our experience, no other European country will know what it is like, to try and escape the grotesque nightmare of EU non-democracy.
A huge rift has opened. We stare at each other, across the Channel, in mutual incomprehension.
We will never rejoin, for this reason. Poor old williamglenn.
It's quite touching that you think (this week at least*) that we will actually leave.
To me it's becoming less likely we will leave every time Boris promises we will.
(*Next week you'll probably have swung back to the 'Brexit is dead' line.)
We are trying to do the impossible. Leave the EU. The spectacle will always be comical, because Leaving the EU is meant to be horribly, comically painful. It was designed that way. The EU made it that way. Barnier told us he would do this to us: make it so bad we want to stay. And he is as good as his word.
But we will still Leave. And then things will change for the worse.
Fixed that for you.
Wow. You did the whole "fixed that for you" thing. Well done, that must have been hard, but you went ahead and did it. Just there. I can see it. Yes.
It seems to me the real danger is not from Putin rolling tanks into Berlin but from Russian hackers taking over and shutting down the national grid, for example.
Smartest thing you've said in a while, but remember that Russia's hybrid wars are not "war minus" (as in, cyber attacks instead of lethal force), but "war plus" (cyber attacks AS WELL AS lethal force). Ukraine was a testbed for a lot of the information warfare that they have unleashed on western Europe and the USA. There is no reason to suppose that safe from conventional attack too. Russian subs and planes are constantly probing European countries' airspace and waters. The Russian carpet bombing of Syria was designed to drive huge numbers of refugees Europewards, and came along with vile anti-Muslim propaganda to stoke unrest when they arrived. I wouldn't be surprised if Russia is considering covertly arming both jihadi and far-right terror groups within Europe to invoke exchanges of mass shootings. The propaganda to persuade different groups that NATO membership is compatible with their strategic interests is well established. Russia's likeliest targets for annexation include Ukraine, Georgia, the Baltic states. They've been picking at the weakest ones (not coincidentally, the ones outside the EU).
This is not a football match. There is no requirement to unconditionally support our Prime Minister because he happens to be ‘British’.
Did I say there was? Soubry is referring to a PM acting with mendacity and being a buffoon. That was manifestly the Luxembourg guy today.
In your opinion.
Yes, it would be a bit odd if it wasn't
And you suggest that because Soubry holds a different opinion she can’t possibly be British.
Yes, and if course it was an entirely serious suggestion. Rather than pointing out via a little joke that you could infer she was talking about Lux man I was suggesting she is actually from Luxembourg. I forgot how literal people love to be when you post something they disagree with, it's so life affirmingly engaging.
Whilst still surprised how Leavers buy Boris’ bullshit, you have to admire how his supporters continue to spin his mishaps as triumphs. Tragic devotion. Heroic almost. Well done.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
A total failure to understand England. We are different from them, for good or bad. Hence Brexit.
In England? As opposed to the rest of the world? Much of it is the same strata to what's on the other side of the Channel. And there is so much Anthropopcene overburden. Farmland, concrete, housing etc. Quarries filled with rubbish - even when there is superb geology. I was once shown a massive dinosaur trackway complex that was about to be covered by landfill waste (in fairness they had dug the hole to put the rubbish in). Of course there is or rather was a lot of coal and ironstone and early Victorian geologists used to go on about the forethought of divine Providence in bestowing these goodies on us (often implicit but obviously meaning the English/British).
It makes me quite proud to be British to know that no British PM would go ahead with that press conference, let alone gesture to the empty podium like a third rate comedian.
You'd enjoy the new Downton film. It was full of absurd posturing. One of the many reasons I found it so execrable.
I doubt it. I liked some of the TV episodes because Julian Fellowes writes pretty good dialogue (not an easy thing to do in period) and because the series took a human but unjudgemental view of the past. Failure to do either of those things (often both) prevents a lot of period drama (for me) being enjoyable.
But the film trailer to me seems to be about a lap of honour for all those things people love about Downton (the grandeur, Maggie Smith) rather than an actual story. Wouldn't get me to the cinema, no doubt I'll catch it on telly at some point.
This is not a football match. There is no requirement to unconditionally support our Prime Minister because he happens to be ‘British’.
Did I say there was? Soubry is referring to a PM acting with mendacity and being a buffoon. That was manifestly the Luxembourg guy today.
In your opinion.
Yes, it would be a bit odd if it wasn't
And you suggest that because Soubry holds a different opinion she can’t possibly be British.
Yes, and if course it was an entirely serious suggestion. Rather than pointing out via a little joke that you could infer she was talking about Lux man I was suggesting she is actually from Luxembourg. I forgot how literal people love to be when you post something they disagree with, it's so life affirmingly engaging.
The classic “I’ve been called out so now I will pretend it was a joke and accuse you of having no sense of humour” maneuver.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
A total failure to understand England. We are different from them, for good or bad. Hence Brexit.
I was having an interesting chat with one of my Greek colleagues. He pointed out that their government went against a decisive referendum within weeks, and no lasting damage to Democracy. He cannot see the problem with reversing referendums.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Qu
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
In your dreams. Never in reality.
One of the ironies of Brexit is that Britain WAS, slowly, becoming more European, but Brexit in itself has completely stopped this process, what's more, the traumatic way Brexit has played out has made us even less European.
From now on, no other European country will share our experience, no other European country will know what it is like, to try and escape the grotesque nightmare of EU non-democracy.
A huge rift has opened. We stare at each other, across the Channel, in mutual incomprehension.
We will never rejoin, for this reason. Poor old williamglenn.
It's quite touching that you think (this week at least*) that we will actually leave.
To me it's becoming less likely we will leave every time Boris promises we will.
(*Next week you'll probably have swung back to the 'Brexit is dead' line.)
Yes, I think we will leave. Today has affirmed this. Forces have been set in play, which are driving Britain and Europe apart, and with increasing speed. It's like tectonic plates.
The EU is changing its mind about trying to keep Britain inside. They realise this is mad, and a bitter, angry, divided Britain, still embedded in the EU, would be a disaster for The Project. Sure, a prosperous Brexit Britain also threatens the EU, but that's probably better than an EU crippled by a major member state which hates its status, and keeps trying to exit at every election.
We're out. It may take a month or a year, but we're out. Deal or No Deal.
I was having an interesting chat with one of my Greek colleagues. He pointed out that their government went against a decisive referendum within weeks, and no lasting damage to Democracy. He cannot see the problem with reversing referendums.
Let’s hope we never get that cowed by the establishment.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
I've said for years we should pull the plug on NATO (or at least out involvement in it) and spend the money on the NHS...
I am constantly aghast at the number of Leavers who seem determined, step by step, to declare war on Europe.
Declare war?
Because we decide to end our involvement in in an organization that was set up in the Cold War and is still going strong 30 years after the Cold War ended?
However I am glad to know that you think it's implausible. I hope you are right.
I really can't see any plausible reason why we would want to wage war with Europe.
But then my instinct is to end all of our military entanglements as far as possible.
Stop all of the sily non-wars with USA, stop our involvement with NATO. Scrap Trident etc.
So far so Corbyn.
But where I'd differ from Corbyn is that I'd also want to fund a decent army/navy that can protect this country and it's interests (it's interesting that we fund NATO but if Argentina invaded the Falklands again I'm not sure we'd have thje capacity to defend those Islands again) and massive increase out spending on fighting state-sponsered cyber crime.
It seems to me the real danger is not from Putin rolling tanks into Berlin but from Russian hackers taking over and shutting down the national grid, for example.
The UK reinforced the falkland islands after 1982. Warfare has moved on as we have the ability to fire cruise missiles rather than relie on planes. You are also niave on the russian threat, they still have thousands of nuclear warheads and large conventional forces even if much is dated. If NATO is disbanded. Putin will attempt a land grab...
Yes, but not here. The point is that if the EU doesn’t want to be an ally then frankly who cares if Putin wants a holiday home in Paris.
I was having an interesting chat with one of my Greek colleagues. He pointed out that their government went against a decisive referendum within weeks, and no lasting damage to Democracy. He cannot see the problem with reversing referendums.
But that's different, because in Greece's case, they were voting on something that was totally outside their government's ability to deliver without causing a cataclysm. Contrast that with Brexit which... ah
I was having an interesting chat with one of my Greek colleagues. He pointed out that their government went against a decisive referendum within weeks, and no lasting damage to Democracy. He cannot see the problem with reversing referendums.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
elings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
I've said for years we should pull the plug on NATO (or at least out involvement in it) and spend the money on the NHS...
I am constantly aghast at the number of Leavers who seem determined, step by step, to declare war on Europe.
Declare war?
Because we decide to end our involvement in in an organization that was set up in the Cold War and is still going strong 30 years after the Cold War ended?
However I am glad to know that you think it's implausible. I hope you are right.
I really can't see any plausible reason why we would want to wage war with Europe.
But then my instinct is to end all of our military entanglements as far as possible.
Stop all of the sily non-wars with USA, stop our involvement with NATO. Scrap Trident etc.
So far so Corbyn.
But where I'd differ from Corbyn is that I'd also want to fund a decent army/navy that can protect this country and it's interests (it's interesting that we fund NATO but if Argentina invaded the Falklands again I'm not sure we'd have thje capacity to defend those Islands again) and massive increase out spending on fighting state-sponsered cyber crime.
It seems to me the real danger is not from Putin rolling tanks into Berlin but from Russian hackers taking over and shutting down the national grid, for example.
The UK reinforced the falkland islands after 1982. Warfare has moved on as we have the ability to fire cruise missiles rather than relie on planes. You are also niave on the russian threat, they still have thousands of nuclear warheads and large conventional forces even if much is dated. If NATO is disbanded. Putin will attempt a land grab...
Yes, but not here. The point is that if the EU doesn’t want to be an ally then frankly who cares if Putin wants a holiday home in Paris.
You’re so sensitive. Has the little Luxembourg man upset you?
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Qu
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
In your dreams. Never in reality.
One of the ironies of Brexit is that Britain WAS, slowly, becoming more European, but Brexit in itself has completely stopped this process, what's more, the traumatic way Brexit has played out has made us even less European.
From now on, no other European country will share our experience, no other European country will know what it is like, to try and escape the grotesque nightmare of EU non-democracy.
A huge rift has opened. We stare at each other, across the Channel, in mutual incomprehension.
We will never rejoin, for this reason. Poor old williamglenn.
It's quite touching that you think (this week at least*) that we will actually leave.
To me it's becoming less likely we will leave every time Boris promises we will.
(*Next week you'll probably have swung back to the 'Brexit is dead' line.)
Yes, I think we will leave. Today has affirmed this. Forces have been set in play, which are driving Britain and Europe apart, and with increasing speed. It's like tectonic plates.
The EU is changing its mind about trying to keep Britain inside. They realise this is mad, and a bitter, angry, divided Britain, still embedded in the EU, would be a disaster for The Project. Sure, a prosperous Brexit Britain also threatens the EU, but that's probably better than an EU crippled by a major member state which hates its status, and keeps trying to exit at every election.
We're out. It may take a month or a year, but we're out. Deal or No Deal.
“That’s my forecast. And, if you don’t like it, I have others.”
This is not a football match. There is no requirement to unconditionally support our Prime Minister because he happens to be ‘British’.
Did I say there was? Soubry is referring to a PM acting with mendacity and being a buffoon. That was manifestly the Luxembourg guy today.
In your opinion.
Yes, it would be a bit odd if it wasn't
And you suggest that because Soubry holds a different opinion she can’t possibly be British.
Yes, and if course it was an entirely serious suggestion. Rather than pointing out via a little joke that you could infer she was talking about Lux man I was suggesting she is actually from Luxembourg. I forgot how literal people love to be when you post something they disagree with, it's so life affirmingly engaging.
The classic “I’ve been called out so now I will pretend it was a joke and accuse you of having no sense of humour” maneuver.
You think I was actually accusing her of literally being from Luxembourg? Wow, ok.
I was having an interesting chat with one of my Greek colleagues. He pointed out that their government went against a decisive referendum within weeks, and no lasting damage to Democracy. He cannot see the problem with reversing referendums.
Let’s hope we never get that cowed by the establishment.
Are you still pretending that the government of elite public schoolboys is not the establishment?
This is not a football match. There is no requirement to unconditionally support our Prime Minister because he happens to be ‘British’.
Did I say there was? Soubry is referring to a PM acting with mendacity and being a buffoon. That was manifestly the Luxembourg guy today.
In your opinion.
Yes, it would be a bit odd if it wasn't
And you suggest that because Soubry holds a different opinion she can’t possibly be British.
Yes, and if course it was an entirely serious suggestion. Rather than pointing out via a little joke that you could infer she was talking about Lux man I was suggesting she is actually from Luxembourg. I forgot how literal people love to be when you post something they disagree with, it's so life affirmingly engaging.
The classic “I’ve been called out so now I will pretend it was a joke and accuse you of having no sense of humour” maneuver.
No, you just didn't get the jist. He was intimating that Soubry's catalogue of criticism for 'our Prime Minister', must have been aimed at the Luxembourg guy, and that therefore Soubry must be from Luxembourg. Penny dropped now?
Let's face it - our PM has been humiliated by the leader of Luxembourg. Luxembourg! Who's he going to duck a confrontation with next? The Faroe Islands? San Marino?
No doubt the usual suspects will praise to the heavens the sagacity of the Dear Leader in sidestepping a potentially tricky showdown with Andorra's deputy transport minister.
Whilst people obsess themselves over Brexit, its going to pale in immediate effect if things kick off in the Persian Gulf.
All the off the record US briefings are that the attack on Saudi oil facilities 'originated from inside Iran' a fantastically vague statement that allows for some room to keep response options from being overt and direct and on a comparative scale.
The US has plenty of options open for all kinds of responses, lethal and non lethal but the people who should be responding with bodies on the line at this point are the Saudis who have less options on a response to what was a nicely grey area/sub threshold attack.
The US DoD has and favours response plans that are very limited designed to cause many small cuts to the Iranians. Others in the administration want to put a lot of metal in the region, if not to use it, to at least cow the Iranians
The Saudi military is equipped well to blow things up but its quasi military/military low exposure response capabilities are very limited indeed. If they do respond militarily then its likely to be a tit for tat playground level pushing match situation and the creeping instability will cause economic uncertainty on a wide scale.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
One of the ironies of Brexit is that Britain WAS, slowly, becoming more European, but Brexit in itself has completely stopped this process,
Yes, I think we will leave. Today has affirmed this. Forces have been set in play, which are driving Britain and Europe apart, and with increasing speed. It's like tectonic plates.
The EU is changing its mind about trying to keep Britain inside. They realise this is mad, and a bitter, angry, divided Britain, still embedded in the EU, would be a disaster for The Project. Sure, a prosperous Brexit Britain also threatens the EU, but that's probably better than an EU crippled by a major member state which hates its status, and keeps trying to exit at every election.
We're out. It may take a month or a year, but we're out. Deal or No Deal.
“That’s my forecast. And, if you don’t like it, I have others.”
Here’s mine. Ronics wrong.
Monday 16th September. Boris with 4 days left. The day the leavers lost it.
Dawning with a daily mail editorial written by black shirts, closing with Boris fans closing ranks with some anti EU bluster completely ignoring the stark truth, Boris does not have a plan. He doesn’t have a clue how to bring this mess, a mess with his handiwork all over it as he worked for his own self interest, to a close.
A no deal exit is just more of the same not the end, there will be more discussions with Eu in no deal exit, more chaos trying to get things through commons, just as much division in UK between those pushing global Britain and those EU membership (who will win in the end through weight of numbers) all the while UK goes to rats through this fixation and taking eye off everything else.
Only leavers have the power to stop all this. They need to let go of the 2016 result and submit to a ref more clear and definitive.
That picture is useful. The protestors were on the other side of that fence making a racket, and the podium was maybe 5-10 metres to Johnson's left. I was surprised by the setup, it certainly wasn't the usual way of doing these sort of things.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Qu
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
In your dreams. Never in reality.
One of the ironies of Brexit is that Britain WAS, slowly, becoming more European, but Brexit in itself has completely stopped this process, what's more, the traumatic way Brexit has played out has made us even less European. oor old williamglenn.
It's quite touching that you think (this week at least*) that we will actually leave.
To me it's becoming less likely we will leave every time Boris promises we will.
(*Next week you'll probably have swung back to the 'Brexit is dead' line.)
Yes, I think we will leave. Today has affirmed this. Forces have been set in play, which are driving Britain and Europe apart, and with increasing speed. It's like tectonic plates.
The EU is changing its mind about trying to keep Britain inside. They realise this is mad, and a bitter, angry, divided Britain, still embedded in the EU, would be a disaster for The Project. Sure, a prosperous Brexit Britain also threatens the EU, but that's probably better than an EU crippled by a major member state which hates its status, and keeps trying to exit at every election.
We're out. It may take a month or a year, but we're out. Deal or No Deal.
All presuming that anti EU parties rule in the UK. Far more likely that Pro EU parties rule here, Brexit or no Brexit.
Your presumption to speak for the nation is because you are in your cups again. The most significant and paradoxical effect of Brexit has been to make the EU popular in Britain. The massive crowds of EU flag wavers in Parliament square and at the last night of the proms are something that I never expected to see.
I was having an interesting chat with one of my Greek colleagues. He pointed out that their government went against a decisive referendum within weeks, and no lasting damage to Democracy. He cannot see the problem with reversing referendums.
Let’s hope we never get that cowed by the establishment.
I agree. We need to follow those plucky anti-establishment types Jacob Rees Mogg, Bill Cash, John Redwood and Dominic Raab.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
A total failure to understand England. We are different from them, for good or bad. Hence Brexit.
In England? As opposed to the rest of the world? Much of it is the same strata to what's on the other side of the Channel. And there is so much Anthropopcene overburden. Farmland, concrete, housing etc. Quarries filled with rubbish - even when there is superb geology. I was once shown a massive dinosaur trackway complex that was about to be covered by landfill waste (in fairness they had dug the hole to put the rubbish in). Of course there is or rather was a lot of coal and ironstone and early Victorian geologists used to go on about the forethought of divine Providence in bestowing these goodies on us (often implicit but obviously meaning the English/British).
The Empire was built on the Industrial Revolution was built on our geology.
We are trying to do the impossible. Leave the EU. The spectacle will always be comical, because Leaving the EU is meant to be horribly, comically painful. It was designed that way. The EU made it that way. Barnier told us he would do this to us: make it so bad we want to stay. And he is as good as his word.
But we will still Leave. And then things will change for the worse.
Fixed that for you.
Wow. You did the whole "fixed that for you" thing. Well done, that must have been hard, but you went ahead and did it. Just there. I can see it. Yes.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a
I’m English too we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
One of the ironies of Brexit is that Britain WAS, slowly, becoming more European, but Brexit in itself has completely stopped this process,
Yes, I think we will leave. Today has affirmed this. Forces have been set in play, which are driving Britain and Europe apart, and with increasing speed. It's like tectonic plates.
The EU is changing its mind about trying to keep Britain inside. They realise
We're out. It may take a month or a year, but we're out. Deal or No Deal.
“That’s my forecast. And, if you don’t like it, I have others.”
Here’s mine. Ronics wrong.
Monday 16th September. Boris with 4 days left. The day the leavers lost it.
Dawning with a daily mail editorial written by black shirts, closing with Boris fans closing ranks with some anti EU bluster completely ignoring the stark truth, Boris does not have a plan. He doesn’t have a clue how to bring this mess, a mess with his handiwork all over it as he worked for his own self interest, to a close.
A no deal exit is just more of the same not the end, there will be more discussions with Eu in no deal exit, more chaos trying to get things through commons, just as much division in UK between those pushing global Britain and those EU membership (who will win in the end through weight of numbers) all the while UK goes to rats through this fixation and taking eye off everything else.
Only leavers have the power to stop all this. They need to let go of the 2016 result and submit to a ref more clear and definitive.
Nah, in the long run we’re leaving. Even if you lot win this time we’ll still be out in ten years
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Qu
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Anothe
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
In your dreams. Never in reality.
One of the ironies of Brexit is that Britain WAS, slowly, becoming more European, but Brexit in itself has completely stopped this process, what's more, the traumatic way Brexit has played out has made us even less European. oor old williamglenn.
It's quite touching that you think (this week at least*) that we will actually leave.
To me it's becoming less likely we will leave every time Boris promises we will.
(*Next week you'll probably have swung back to the 'Brexit is dead' line.)
Yes, I th
We're out. It may take a month or a year, but we're out. Deal or No Deal.
All presuming that anti EU parties rule in the UK. Far more likely that Pro EU parties rule here, Brexit or no Brexit.
Your presumption to speak for the nation is because you are in your cups again. The most significant and paradoxical effect of Brexit has been to make the EU popular in Britain. The massive crowds of EU flag wavers in Parliament square and at the last night of the proms are something that I never expected to see.
Then explain to me how we get to Remain. I can't see an obvious route.
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
One of the ironies of Brexit is that Britain WAS, slowly, becoming more European, but Brexit in itself has completely stopped this process,
Yes, I think we will leave. Today has affirmed this. Forces have been set in play, which are driving Britain and Europe apart, and with increasing speed. It's like tectonic plates.
The EU is changing its mind about trying to keep Britain inside. They realise this is mad, and a bitter, angry, divided Britain, still embedded in the EU, would be a disaster for The Project. Sure, a prosperous Brexit Britain also threatens the EU, but that's probably better than an EU crippled by a major member state which hates its status, and keeps trying to exit at every election.
We're out. It may take a month or a year, but we're out. Deal or No Deal.
“That’s my forecast. And, if you don’t like it, I have others.”
Here’s mine. Ronics wrong.
Monday 16th September. Boris with 4 days left. The day the leavers lost it.
Dawning with a daily mail editorial written by black shirts, closing with Boris fans closing ranks with some anti EU bluster completely ignoring the stark truth, Boris does not have a plan. He doesn’t have a clue how to bring this mess, a mess with his handiwork all over it as he worked for his own self interest, to a close.
A no deal exit is just more of the same not the end, there will be more discussions with Eu in no deal exit, more chaos trying to get things through commons, just as much division in UK between those pushing global Britain and those EU membership (who will win in the end through weight of numbers) all the while UK goes to rats through this fixation and taking eye off everything else.
Only leavers have the power to stop all this. They need to let go of the 2016 result and submit to a ref more clear and definitive.
Spot on: Boris doesn't have a clue how to bring this to a close. That was written all over his face in the Laura K interview.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a
I’m English too we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
One of the ironies of Brexit is that Britain WAS, slowly, becoming more European, but Brexit in itself has completely stopped this process,
Yes, I think we will leave. Today has affirmed this. Forces have been set in play, which are driving Britain and Europe apart, and with increasing speed. It's like tectonic plates.
The EU is changing its mind about trying to keep Britain inside. They realise
We're out. It may take a month or a year, but we're out. Deal or No Deal.
“That’s my forecast. And, if you don’t like it, I have others.”
Here’s mine. Ronics wrong.
Monday 16th September. Boris with 4 days left. The day the leavers lost it.
Dawning with a daily mail editorial written by black shirts, closing with Boris fans closing ranks with some anti EU bluster completely ignoring the stark truth, Boris does not have a plan. He doesn’t have a clue how to bring this mess, a mess with his handiwork all over it as he worked for his own self interest, to a close.
A no deal exit is just more of the same not the end, there will be more discussions with Eu in no deal exit, more chaos trying to get things through commons, just as much division in UK between those pushing global Britain and those EU membership (who will win in the end through weight of numbers) all the while UK goes to rats through this fixation and taking eye off everything else.
Only leavers have the power to stop all this. They need to let go of the 2016 result and submit to a ref more clear and definitive.
Nah, in the long run we’re leaving. Even if you lot win this time we’ll still be out in ten years
The Empire was built on the Industrial Revolution was built on our geology.
Mmmmm nope. The industrial revolution happened here because we had rule of law, property rights and no overbearing monarch to stymie innovation. It was inventions, not rivers, that drove the revolution. Not all of those inventions happened here, but this was where they could flourish.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a
I’m English too we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
One of the ironies of Brexit is that Britain WAS, slowly, becoming more European, but Brexit in itself has completely stopped this process,
Yes, I think we will leave. Today has affirmed this. Forces have been set in play, which are driving Britain and Europe apart, and with increasing speed. It's like tectonic plates.
The EU is changing its mind about trying to keep Britain inside. They realise
We're out. It may take a month or a year, but we're out. Deal or No Deal.
“That’s my forecast. And, if you don’t like it, I have others.”
Here’s mine. Ronics wrong.
Monday 16th September. Boris with 4 days left. The day the leavers lost it.
Dawning with a daily mail editorial written by black shirts, closing with Boris fans closing ranks with some anti EU bluster completely ignoring the stark truth, Boris does not have a plan. He doesn’t have a clue how to bring this mess, a mess with his handiwork all over it as he worked for his own self interest, to a close.
A no deal exit is just more of the same not the end, there will be more discussions with Eu in no deal exit, more chaos trying to get things through commons, just as much division in UK between those pushing global Britain and those EU membership (who will win in the end through weight of numbers) all the while UK goes to rats through this fixation and taking eye off everything else.
Only leavers have the power to stop all this. They need to let go of the 2016 result and submit to a ref more clear and definitive.
Nah, in the long run we’re leaving. Even if you lot win this time we’ll still be out in ten years
Demographics say otherwise.
Tory party being the most successful party of Government ever says people wise up.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a
I’m English too we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
One of the ironies of Brexit is that Britain WAS, slowly, becoming more European, but Brexit in itself has completely stopped this process,
Yes, I think we will leave. Today has affirmed this. Forces have been set in play, which are driving Britain and Europe apart, and with increasing speed. It's like tectonic plates.
The EU is changing its mind about trying to keep Britain inside. They realise
We're out. It may take a month or a year, but we're out. Deal or No Deal.
“That’s my forecast. And, if you don’t like it, I have others.”
Here’s mine. Ronics wrong.
Monday 16th September. Boris with 4 days left. The day the leavers lost it.
Dawning with a daily mail editorial written by black shirts, closing with Boris fans closing ranks with some anti EU bluster completely ignoring the stark truth, Boris does not have a plan. He doesn’t have a clue how to bring this mess, a mess with his handiwork all over it as he worked for his own self interest, to a close.
A no deal exit is just more of the same not the end, there will be more discussions with Eu in no deal exit, more chaos trying to get things through commons, just as much division in UK between those pushing global Britain and those EU membership (who will win in the end through weight of numbers) all the while UK goes to rats through this fixation and taking eye off everything else.
Only leavers have the power to stop all this. They need to let go of the 2016 result and submit to a ref more clear and definitive.
Nah, in the long run we’re leaving. Even if you lot win this time we’ll still be out in ten years
Demographics say otherwise.
They really don’t. Today’s remainers, following events, become leavers. See the 70s referendum voters....
Edit - Oh plus a chunk of current remainers are scared, not europhiles.
Whilst people obsess themselves over Brexit, its going to pale in immediate effect if things kick off in the Persian Gulf.
All the off the record US briefings are that the attack on Saudi oil facilities 'originated from inside Iran' a fantastically vague statement that allows for some room to keep response options from being overt and direct and on a comparative scale.
The US has plenty of options open for all kinds of responses, lethal and non lethal but the people who should be responding with bodies on the line at this point are the Saudis who have less options on a response to what was a nicely grey area/sub threshold attack.
The US DoD has and favours response plans that are very limited designed to cause many small cuts to the Iranians. Others in the administration want to put a lot of metal in the region, if not to use it, to at least cow the Iranians
The Saudi military is equipped well to blow things up but its quasi military/military low exposure response capabilities are very limited indeed. If they do respond militarily then its likely to be a tit for tat playground level pushing match situation and the creeping instability will cause economic uncertainty on a wide scale.
The Saudi performance in Yemen can surely not have the Iranians quaking in their boots. I very much doubt that they could sustain a land war for any length of time let alone take anything like the casualties that both Iran and Iraq did in their war. Of course they may be able to call on the Americans but I think Trump is very wary about committing forces and the sacking of Bolton is hardly likely to make him less so.
Let's face it - our PM has been humiliated by the leader of Luxembourg. Luxembourg! Who's he going to duck a confrontation with next? The Faroe Islands? San Marino?
No doubt the usual suspects will praise to the heavens the sagacity of the Dear Leader in sidestepping a potentially tricky showdown with Andorra's deputy transport minister.
If it was a set-up, Boris fell for it. Not a good look in a PM.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a
I’m English too we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
One of the ironies of Brexit is that Britain WAS, slowly, becoming more European, but Brexit in itself has completely stopped this process,
Yes, I think we will leave. Today has affirmed this. Forces have been set in play, which are driving Britain and Europe apart, and with increasing speed. It's like tectonic plates.
The EU is changing its mind about trying to keep Britain inside. They realise
We're out. It may take a month or a year, but we're out. Deal or No Deal.
“That’s my forecast. And, if you don’t like it, I have others.”
Here’s mine. Ronics wrong.
Monday 16th September. Boris with 4 days left. The day the leavers lost it.
Dawning with a daily mail editorial written by black shirts, closing with Boris fans closing ranks with some anti EU bluster completely ignoring the stark truth, Boris does not have a plan. He doesn’t have a clue how to bring this mess, a mess with his handiwork all over it as he worked for his own self interest, to a close.
Athe end, there will be more discussions with Eu in no deal exit, more chaos trying to get things through commons, just as much division in UK between those pushing global Britain and those EU membership (who will win in the end through weight of numbers) all the while UK goes to rats through this fixation and taking eye off everything else.
Only leavers have the power to stop all this. They need to let go of the 2016 result and submit to a ref more clear and definitive.
Nah, in the long run we’re leaving. Even if you lot win this time we’ll still be out in ten years
Demographics say otherwise.
Tory party being the most successful party of Government ever says people wise up.
Becoming conservative and supporting Brexit are not the same.
I’m English too we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
One of the ironies of Brexit is that Britain WAS, slowly, becoming more European, but Brexit in itself has completely stopped this process,
Yes, I think we will leave. Today has affirmed this. Forces have been set in play, which are driving Britain and Europe apart, and with increasing speed. It's like tectonic plates.
The EU is changing its mind about trying to keep Britain inside. They realise
We're out. It may take a month or a year, but we're out. Deal or No Deal.
“That’s my forecast. And, if you don’t like it, I have others.”
Here’s mine. Ronics wrong.
Monday 16th September. Boris with 4 days left. The day the leavers lost it.
Dawning with a daily mail editorial written by black shirts, closing with Boris fans closing ranks with some anti EU bluster completely ignoring the stark truth, Boris does not have a plan. He doesn’t have a clue how to bring this mess, a mess with his handiwork all over it as he worked for his own self interest, to a close.
there will be more discussions with Eu in no deal exit, more chaos trying to get things through commons, just as much division in UK between those pushing global Britain and those EU membership (who will win in the end through weight of numbers) all the while UK goes to rats through this fixation and taking eye off everything else.
Only leavers have the power to stop all this. They need to let go of the 2016 result and submit to a ref more clear and definitive.
Nah, in the long run we’re leaving. Even if you lot win this time we’ll still be out in ten years
Demographics say otherwise.
They really don’t. Today’s remainers, following events, become leavers. See the 70s referendum voters....
Edit - Oh plus a chunk of current remainers are scared, not europhiles.
Let's face it - our PM has been humiliated by the leader of Luxembourg. Luxembourg! Who's he going to duck a confrontation with next? The Faroe Islands? San Marino?
No doubt the usual suspects will praise to the heavens the sagacity of the Dear Leader in sidestepping a potentially tricky showdown with Andorra's deputy transport minister.
If it was a set-up, Boris fell for it. Not a good look in a PM.
How so? It's not unreasonable for a visiting dignitary to expect his host to provide a level playing field for any joint press conference. I'm not sure how hes supposed to guess a friend and ally is going to try this on
Then explain to me how we get to Remain. I can't see an obvious route.
I don't think that's hard? In order of likeliness:
1) Election, most Lab incumbents hang on, LD gain a bunch from Tory Remainia, Con lose what they have in Scotland, new government negotiates rejigged PD, passed subject to referendum, votes Remain
2) Tory PM brings back WA, whips for it subject to referendum, votes Remain
This has been the only known way through ever since MV1 (except the final step, they might vote Leave), it's just tough for the Conservative Party to swallow so they keep stalling and faffing around down dead ends.
Let's face it - our PM has been humiliated by the leader of Luxembourg. Luxembourg! Who's he going to duck a confrontation with next? The Faroe Islands? San Marino?
No doubt the usual suspects will praise to the heavens the sagacity of the Dear Leader in sidestepping a potentially tricky showdown with Andorra's deputy transport minister.
If it was a set-up, Boris fell for it. Not a good look in a PM.
Starting to think Boris is a bit fick. I don't remember ever thinking that about another PM. Perhaps Major, just a little bit. But none of the others in my lifetime.
I’m English too we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
One of the ironies of Brexit is that Britain WAS, slowly, becoming more European, but Brexit in itself has completely stopped this process,
Yes, I think we will leave. Today has affirmed this. Forces have been set in play, which are driving Britain and Europe apart, and with increasing speed. It's like tectonic plates.
The EU is changing its mind about trying to keep Britain inside. They realise
We're out. It may take a month or a year, but we're out. Deal or No Deal.
“That’s my forecast. And, if you don’t like it, I have others.”
Here’s mine. Ronics wrong.
Monday 16th September. Boris with 4 days left. The day the leavers lost it.
Dawning with a daily mail editorial written by black shirts, closing with
there will be more discussions with Eu in no deal exit, more chaos trying to get things through commons, just as much division in UK between those pushing global Britain and those EU membership (who will win in the end through weight of numbers) all the while UK goes to rats through this fixation and taking eye off everything else.
Only leavers have the power to stop all this. They need to let go of the 2016 result and submit to a ref more clear and definitive.
Nah, in the long run we’re leaving. Even if you lot win this time we’ll still be out in ten years
Demographics say otherwise.
They really don’t. Today’s remainers, following events, become leavers. See the 70s referendum voters....
Edit - Oh plus a chunk of current remainers are scared, not europhiles.
I’m English too we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
One of the ironies of Brexit is that Britain WAS, slowly, becoming more European, but Brexit in itself has completely stopped this process,
Yes, I think we will leave. Today has affirmed this. Forces have been set in play, which are driving Britain and Europe apart, and with increasing speed. It's like tectonic plates.
The EU is changing its mind about trying to keep Britain inside. They realise
We're out. It may take a month or a year, but we're out. Deal or No Deal.
“That’s my forecast. And, if you don’t like it, I have others.”
Here’s mine. Ronics wrong.
Monday 16th September. Boris with 4 days left. The day the leavers lost it.
Dawning with a daily mail editorial written by black shirts, closing with
there will be more discussions with Eu in no deal exit, more chaos trying to get things through commons, just as much division in UK between those pushing global Britain and those EU membership (who will win in the end through weight of numbers) all the while UK goes to rats through this fixation and taking eye off everything else.
Only leavers have the power to stop all this. They need to let go of the 2016 result and submit to a ref more clear and definitive.
Nah, in the long run we’re leaving. Even if you lot win this time we’ll still be out in ten years
Demographics say otherwise.
They really don’t. Today’s remainers, following events, become leavers. See the 70s referendum voters....
Edit - Oh plus a chunk of current remainers are scared, not europhiles.
Maybe. Maybe not. Why are you so confident?
The EU isn’t static. It’ll always alienate us.
Speak for yourself. I am very much at home in the EU.
Then explain to me how we get to Remain. I can't see an obvious route.
I don't think that's hard? In order of likeliness:
1) Election, most Lab incumbents hang on, LD gain a bunch from Tory Remainia, Con lose what they have in Scotland, new government negotiates rejigged PD, passed subject to referendum, votes Remain
2) Tory PM brings back WA, whips for it subject to referendum, votes Remain
This has been the only known way through ever since MV1, it's just tough for the Conservative Party to swallow so they keep stalling and faffing around down dead ends.
A sizeable part of me hopes you are right, and we get to Remain, so as to really fuck off the Europeans. But.... I don't buy it. All those options have so many IFs.
For a start, there is a massive presumption that a new Referendum produces Remain. It's seems significantly more likely, to me, that a 2nd ref would enrage the patriotic public, who would then vote Leave, again. All prior examples of voters being asked twice, in Britain, point to this.
My best guess is
Deal (perhaps with a v short extension): 45% chance No Deal: 20% chance Remain after a ref: 10% Leave, again, after a ref: 10% Endless extensions: 10% Black swan and who the F knows: 5%
This has the potential to be really big: "The Manhattan district attorney has demanded eight years of Donald Trump’s personal and corporate tax returns, according to the New York Times."
If NY is going after Trump for alleged crimes, then it could be huge. Remember, state prosecutions are not bound by the memo that says a sitting president cannot be indicted -- that only applies to federal crimes. Similarly, an incoming president cannot pardon Trump for state crimes. If the rumours of some of the fraud committed by Trump and his businesses are anywhere near the mark, this will be a catastrophe for him
I’m English too we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
One of the ironies of Brexit is that Britain WAS, slowly, becoming more European, but Brexit in itself has completely stopped this process,
Yes, I think we will leave. Today has affirmed this. Forces have been set in play, which are driving Britain and Europe apart, and with increasing speed. It's like tectonic plates.
The EU is changing its mind about trying to keep Britain inside. They realise
We're out. It may take a month or a year, but we're out. Deal or No Deal.
“That’s my forecast. And, if you don’t like it, I have others.”
Here’s mine. Ronics wrong.
Monday 16th September. Boris with 4 days left. The day the leavers lost it.
Dawning with a daily mail editorial written by black shirts, closing with
Only leavers have the power to stop all this. They need to let go of the 2016 result and submit to a ref more clear and definitive.
Nah, in the long run we’re leaving. Even if you lot win this time we’ll still be out in ten years
Demographics say otherwise.
They really don’t. Today’s remainers, following events, become leavers. See the 70s referendum voters....
Edit - Oh plus a chunk of current remainers are scared, not europhiles.
Maybe. Maybe not. Why are you so confident?
The EU isn’t static. It’ll always alienate us.
Speak for yourself. I am very much at home in the EU.
Yes but you’re one person. If you want to a pedantic prat I’ll accept what I meant is:
The EU isn’t static. It’ll always alienate a large enough plurality of us to create a majority Government in favour of leaving.
Sumptuous ingredients. The best of Spanish meet the best of British, over a little brazier. The new King's Cross is amazing.
Kebab Machine was the best restaurant in Kings Cross in the 80s.
I know! The transformation is so incredible it is emotionally moving. King's Cross is arguably the greatest example of large scale urban regeneration in the world. right now.
Yes, but not here. The point is that if the EU doesn’t want to be an ally then frankly who cares if Putin wants a holiday home in Paris.
It might be useful to remember that Putin has cheerfully murdered multiple people in the UK.
Quite. But that’s a reason for us to be on our guard against Russia, not for us to look after other countries which don’t care about us.
I think it's nonsense to say other countries don't care about us. The solidarity we got in response to the Salisbury poisonings was excellent. And the international cooperation on the Magnitsky case has been really important.
I’m English too we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
One of the ironies of Brexit is that Britain WAS, slowly, becoming more European, but Brexit in itself has completely stopped this process,
Yes, I think we will leave. Today has affirmed this. Forces have been set in play, which are driving Britain and Europe apart, and with increasing speed. It's like tectonic plates.
The EU is changing its mind about trying to keep Britain inside. They realise
We're out. It may take a month or a year, but we're out. Deal or No Deal.
“That’s my forecast. And, if you don’t like it, I have others.”
Here’s mine. Ronics wrong.
Monday 16th September. Boris with 4 days left. The day the leavers lost it.
Dawning with a daily mail editorial written by black shirts, closing with
Only leavers have the power to stop all this. They need to let go of the 2016 result and submit to a ref more clear and definitive.
Nah, in the long run we’re leaving. Even if you lot win this time we’ll still be out in ten years
Demographics say otherwise.
They really don’t. Today’s remainers, following events, become leavers. See the 70s referendum voters....
Edit - Oh plus a chunk of current remainers are scared, not europhiles.
Maybe. Maybe not. Why are you so confident?
The EU isn’t static. It’ll always alienate us.
Speak for yourself. I am very much at home in the EU.
Yes but you’re one person. If you want to a pedantic prat I’ll accept what I meant is:
The EU isn’t static. It’ll always alienate a large enough plurality of us to create a majority Government in favour of leaving.
Sumptuous ingredients. The best of Spanish meet the best of British, over a little brazier. The new King's Cross is amazing.
Kebab Machine was the best restaurant in Kings Cross in the 80s.
I know! The transformation is so incredible it is emotionally moving. King's Cross is arguably the greatest example of large scale urban regeneration in the world. right now.
Let's face it - our PM has been humiliated by the leader of Luxembourg. Luxembourg! Who's he going to duck a confrontation with next? The Faroe Islands? San Marino?
No doubt the usual suspects will praise to the heavens the sagacity of the Dear Leader in sidestepping a potentially tricky showdown with Andorra's deputy transport minister.
If it was a set-up, Boris fell for it. Not a good look in a PM.
How so? It's not unreasonable for a visiting dignitary to expect his host to provide a level playing field for any joint press conference. I'm not sure how hes supposed to guess a friend and ally is going to try this on
Yes - and certain remain types think this is wonderful.
Yes, but not here. The point is that if the EU doesn’t want to be an ally then frankly who cares if Putin wants a holiday home in Paris.
It might be useful to remember that Putin has cheerfully murdered multiple people in the UK.
Quite. But that’s a reason for us to be on our guard against Russia, not for us to look after other countries which don’t care about us.
I think it's nonsense to say other countries don't care about us. The solidarity we got in response to the Salisbury poisonings was excellent. And the international cooperation on the Magnitsky case has been really important.
Nobody (including the U.K.) did anything (public, that we know of anyway) of note after Salisbury. It was a repeat offence and we basically let him get away with it, expelling a few spies.
Let's face it - our PM has been humiliated by the leader of Luxembourg. Luxembourg! Who's he going to duck a confrontation with next? The Faroe Islands? San Marino?
No doubt the usual suspects will praise to the heavens the sagacity of the Dear Leader in sidestepping a potentially tricky showdown with Andorra's deputy transport minister.
If it was a set-up, Boris fell for it. Not a good look in a PM.
It was a set-up. But Boris DIDN'T fall for it. Luxembourg PM had a temper tantrum as a result.
The Empire was built on the Industrial Revolution was built on our geology.
Noo: Mmmmm nope. The industrial revolution happened here because we had rule of law, property rights and no overbearing monarch to stymie innovation. It was inventions, not rivers, that drove the revolution. Not all of those inventions happened here, but this was where they could flourish.
Me: And re Mr/Ms rel="Streeter" 's suggestion surely the timing was in substantial part the other way round? It was the empire - and relared enterprises and orgganizations such as the Royal and Merchant Navies - that provided a lot of the market for industry as well as the raw goods. Cotton cloth and metal goods to Africa, slaves to US etc., tobacco and sugar and cotton to Glasgow and Liverpool. The invention of mass production machinery at the Block Mills in Portsmouth naval dockyard. and so on. But a lot of trade went to parts of the world that were never part of the Empire. [sorry, quoting got mangled]
Let's face it - our PM has been humiliated by the leader of Luxembourg. Luxembourg! Who's he going to duck a confrontation with next? The Faroe Islands? San Marino?
No doubt the usual suspects will praise to the heavens the sagacity of the Dear Leader in sidestepping a potentially tricky showdown with Andorra's deputy transport minister.
If it was a set-up, Boris fell for it. Not a good look in a PM.
It was a set-up. But Boris DIDN'T fall for it. Luxembourg PM had a temper tantrum as a result.
Comments
From now on, no other European country will share our experience, no other European country will know what it is like, to try and escape the grotesque nightmare of EU non-democracy.
A huge rift has opened. We stare at each other, across the Channel, in mutual incomprehension.
We will never rejoin, for this reason. Poor old williamglenn.
There is no way that BoZo the clown can negotiate a Deal, or get it past his own party. It is a bet on whether BoZo is gone before Halloween, and I wouldn't price that as more than evens.
To me it's becoming less likely we will leave every time Boris promises we will.
(*Next week you'll probably have swung back to the 'Brexit is dead' line.)
I wouldn't be surprised if Russia is considering covertly arming both jihadi and far-right terror groups within Europe to invoke exchanges of mass shootings. The propaganda to persuade different groups that NATO membership is compatible with their strategic interests is well established.
Russia's likeliest targets for annexation include Ukraine, Georgia, the Baltic states. They've been picking at the weakest ones (not coincidentally, the ones outside the EU).
I forgot how literal people love to be when you post something they disagree with, it's so life affirmingly engaging.
But the film trailer to me seems to be about a lap of honour for all those things people love about Downton (the grandeur, Maggie Smith) rather than an actual story. Wouldn't get me to the cinema, no doubt I'll catch it on telly at some point.
The EU is changing its mind about trying to keep Britain inside. They realise this is mad, and a bitter, angry, divided Britain, still embedded in the EU, would be a disaster for The Project. Sure, a prosperous Brexit Britain also threatens the EU, but that's probably better than an EU crippled by a major member state which hates its status, and keeps trying to exit at every election.
We're out. It may take a month or a year, but we're out. Deal or No Deal.
I think I’ll take his opinion over Raabs nonsense .
https://twitter.com/ksenijapavlovic/status/1173706841563508737?s=20
https://twitter.com/ksenijapavlovic/status/1173714763425157120?s=20
No doubt the usual suspects will praise to the heavens the sagacity of the Dear Leader in sidestepping a potentially tricky showdown with Andorra's deputy transport minister.
All the off the record US briefings are that the attack on Saudi oil facilities 'originated from inside Iran' a fantastically vague statement that allows for some room to keep response options from being overt and direct and on a comparative scale.
The US has plenty of options open for all kinds of responses, lethal and non lethal but the people who should be responding with bodies on the line at this point are the Saudis who have less options on a response to what was a nicely grey area/sub threshold attack.
The US DoD has and favours response plans that are very limited designed to cause many small cuts to the Iranians. Others in the administration want to put a lot of metal in the region, if not to use it, to at least cow the Iranians
The Saudi military is equipped well to blow things up but its quasi military/military low exposure response capabilities are very limited indeed. If they do respond militarily then its likely to be a tit for tat playground level pushing match situation and the creeping instability will cause economic uncertainty on a wide scale.
Er, no they didn't because he was too frightened to show his face.
Monday 16th September. Boris with 4 days left. The day the leavers lost it.
Dawning with a daily mail editorial written by black shirts, closing with Boris fans closing ranks with some anti EU bluster completely ignoring the stark truth, Boris does not have a plan. He doesn’t have a clue how to bring this mess, a mess with his handiwork all over it as he worked for his own self interest, to a close.
A no deal exit is just more of the same not the end, there will be more discussions with Eu in no deal exit, more chaos trying to get things through commons, just as much division in UK between those pushing global Britain and those EU membership (who will win in the end through weight of numbers) all the while UK goes to rats through this fixation and taking eye off everything else.
Only leavers have the power to stop all this. They need to let go of the 2016 result and submit to a ref more clear and definitive.
Your presumption to speak for the nation is because you are in your cups again. The most significant and paradoxical effect of Brexit has been to make the EU popular in Britain. The massive crowds of EU flag wavers in Parliament square and at the last night of the proms are something that I never expected to see.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWyoS8fppB0
I'm not sure if they need parliament to be sitting though?
A total failure to understand England. We are different from them, for good or bad. Hence Brexit.
And as with many English people a total failure to understand that Boris is meant to represent England Wales Scotland and Northern Ireland.
A. Sumption.
The industrial revolution happened here because we had rule of law, property rights and no overbearing monarch to stymie innovation. It was inventions, not rivers, that drove the revolution. Not all of those inventions happened here, but this was where they could flourish.
Edit - Oh plus a chunk of current remainers are scared, not europhiles.
Parillan, in Coal Drops Yard, King's Cross. Laaaandan.
https://www.ft.com/content/1b260514-b258-11e9-8cb2-799a3a8cf37b
Sumptuous ingredients. The best of Spanish meet the best of British, over a little brazier. The new King's Cross is amazing.
1) Election, most Lab incumbents hang on, LD gain a bunch from Tory Remainia, Con lose what they have in Scotland, new government negotiates rejigged PD, passed subject to referendum, votes Remain
2) Tory PM brings back WA, whips for it subject to referendum, votes Remain
3) GONU, Corbyn or $CARETAKER negotiate rejigged PD, referendum, votes Remain
This has been the only known way through ever since MV1 (except the final step, they might vote Leave), it's just tough for the Conservative Party to swallow so they keep stalling and faffing around down dead ends.
Quite. But that’s a reason for us to be on our guard against Russia, not for us to look after other countries which don’t care about us.
For a start, there is a massive presumption that a new Referendum produces Remain. It's seems significantly more likely, to me, that a 2nd ref would enrage the patriotic public, who would then vote Leave, again. All prior examples of voters being asked twice, in Britain, point to this.
My best guess is
Deal (perhaps with a v short extension): 45% chance
No Deal: 20% chance
Remain after a ref: 10%
Leave, again, after a ref: 10%
Endless extensions: 10%
Black swan and who the F knows: 5%
Leave is a strong favourite.
"The Manhattan district attorney has demanded eight years of Donald Trump’s personal and corporate tax returns, according to the New York Times."
If NY is going after Trump for alleged crimes, then it could be huge. Remember, state prosecutions are not bound by the memo that says a sitting president cannot be indicted -- that only applies to federal crimes.
Similarly, an incoming president cannot pardon Trump for state crimes. If the rumours of some of the fraud committed by Trump and his businesses are anywhere near the mark, this will be a catastrophe for him
The EU isn’t static. It’ll always alienate a large enough plurality of us to create a majority Government in favour of leaving.
It is phenomenal, what they have done.
The solidarity we got in response to the Salisbury poisonings was excellent. And the international cooperation on the Magnitsky case has been really important.
The industrial revolution happened here because we had rule of law, property rights and no overbearing monarch to stymie innovation. It was inventions, not rivers, that drove the revolution. Not all of those inventions happened here, but this was where they could flourish.
Me: And re Mr/Ms rel="Streeter" 's suggestion surely the timing was in substantial part the other way round? It was the empire - and relared enterprises and orgganizations such as the Royal and Merchant Navies - that provided a lot of the market for industry as well as the raw goods. Cotton cloth and metal goods to Africa, slaves to US etc., tobacco and sugar and cotton to Glasgow and Liverpool. The invention of mass production machinery at the Block Mills in Portsmouth naval dockyard. and so on. But a lot of trade went to parts of the world that were never part of the Empire. [sorry, quoting got mangled]
Tho I would prefer to be a woman.