Has anybody got a read on this? I assume that if UKSC says the PM can just prorogue when he wants, then he will prorogue for a second time immediately the first expires and go for his "failing and blaming" No Deal. And GBP will collapse. But if UKSC says he cannot prorogue on whim, he will be more constrained and GBP may not collapse or even rise.
Given that money is riding like this, I would welcome a serious response.
I'm not a betting man (why are you here then? - Ed) but I suspect if Boris tried to prorogue again, HMQ might actually say, very very carefully, "Are you absolutely sure you want to ask me, Prime Minister? Because I'd really rather not say no."
What all the opposition parties tend to forget is the economy is going well in the background to all this, rebounding back brilliantly to the threat of recession.
Not so sure about that! PMIs across the world look pretty grim.
+1 my early indicator (IT contractor demand) is screaming that this is like early 2001 / late 2008. Demand has fallen off the cliff as investment is delayed
We never used to worry about what Luxembourg thought, said or did, did we? Now the PM of a country with a population the size of Leicester's reduces Brexiteers to apoplexy. Sunlit uplands.
It was not the PM so much, more apoplectic diehard Remainer British experts booing Boris at the prospect of losing their EU jobs.
I had 2 Luxembourgish friends at university who were charm personified
On topic, there won't be an election until the immediate issue of Brexit is addressed. Any new Parliament would be even more ideological and polarised than this one as Labour and the Conservatives select candidates who toe the line, and the existing big beasts won't risk that whilst - what they would describe as - the ongoing national crisis continues.
Has anybody got a read on this? I assume that if UKSC says the PM can just prorogue when he wants, then he will prorogue for a second time immediately the first expires and go for his "failing and blaming" No Deal. And GBP will collapse. But if UKSC says he cannot prorogue on whim, he will be more constrained and GBP may not collapse or even rise.
Given that money is riding like this, I would welcome a serious response.
The general view when we last discussed it seemed to be that the biggest hurdle for the petitioners is to get the SC to agree that it's justiciable, rather than none of their business. If they do, then it's relatively easy to conclude that the stated reason for prorogation was not correct and it should therefore be reversed.
If they don't, then as you say Johnson could extend it again. However, it's said that the Palace warned him "not to even think about" putting them in a position where they had to make a political judgment. Effectively suspending Parliament indefinitely in order to force something through would surely run into Palace reluctance.
That said, judges are human and they may try to split the difference, ruling that the issue is justiciable but in this case the action was not so egregious as to warrant court intervention. That would be a clear hint that on another occasion they might.
Indeed, to avoid general chaos it seems to me the best result would be for them to say it is justiciable so that any future prorogation can be challenged but that in this instant Boris was acting legally.
Some pretty senior judges were on the bench the first go round
Because it is such a large bench for the SC, should we expect their ruling might take a little time to be delivered?
How have we slipped into a world where the USA gets to decide who lives and who dies on the back of "intelligence"without any form of oversight, declaration of war, legal justification etc? I fear that these policies are playing a major role in destabilising the Middle East and generating waves of hatred that will last generations.
Our government, indeed all western governments, have been shamefully quiet about this, even allowing the use of this technology from this country. It is interesting how shocked we are when drones are used against our interests.
Has anybody got a read on this? I assume that if UKSC says the PM can just prorogue when he wants, then he will prorogue for a second time immediately the first expires and go for his "failing and blaming" No Deal. And GBP will collapse. But if UKSC says he cannot prorogue on whim, he will be more constrained and GBP may not collapse or even rise.
Given that money is riding like this, I would welcome a serious response.
The general view when we last discussed it seemed to be that the biggest hurdle for the petitioners is to get the SC to agree that it's justiciable, rather than none of their business. If they do, then it's relatively easy to conclude that the stated reason for prorogation was not correct and it should therefore be reversed.
If they don't, then as you say Johnson could extend it again. However, it's said that the Palace warned him "not to even think about" putting them in a position where they had to make a political judgment. Effectively suspending Parliament indefinitely in order to force something through would surely run into Palace reluctance.
That said, judges are human and they may try to split the difference, ruling that the issue is justiciable but in this case the action was not so egregious as to warrant court intervention. That would be a clear hint that on another occasion they might.
Indeed, to avoid general chaos it seems to me the best result would be for them to say it is justiciable so that any future prorogation can be challenged but that in this instant Boris was acting legally.
Some pretty senior judges were on the bench the first go round
Because it is such a large bench for the SC, should we expect their ruling might take a little time to be delivered?
Presumably not as they will consider individually for the same amount of time and then deliver their verdict
Whilst I believe the use of expat instead of immigrants is trying to hide behind what, if you live abroad, you actually are I’m sure most ‘expats’ aren’t immigrants . That was meant to be a response to HY post
Has anybody got a read on this? I assume that if UKSC says the PM can just prorogue when he wants, then he will prorogue for a second time immediately the first expires and go for his "failing and blaming" No Deal. And GBP will collapse. But if UKSC says he cannot prorogue on whim, he will be more constrained and GBP may not collapse or even rise.
Given that money is riding like this, I would welcome a serious response.
The general view when we last discussed it seemed to be that the biggest hurdle for the petitioners is to get the SC to agree that it's justiciable, rather than none of their business. If they do, then it's relatively easy to conclude that the stated reason for prorogation was not correct and it should therefore be reversed.
If they don't, then as you say Johnson could extend it again. However, it's said that the Palace warned him "not to even think about" putting them in a position where they had to make a political judgment. Effectively suspending Parliament indefinitely in order to force something through would surely run into Palace reluctance.
That said, judges are human and they may try to split the difference, ruling that the issue is justiciable but in this case the action was not so egregious as to warrant court intervention. That would be a clear hint that on another occasion they might.
Indeed, to avoid general chaos it seems to me the best result would be for them to say it is justiciable so that any future prorogation can be challenged but that in this instant Boris was acting legally.
Some pretty senior judges were on the bench the first go round
Because it is such a large bench for the SC, should we expect their ruling might take a little time to be delivered?
I’m not sure if it’s just a one day hearing . It might go on longer . In terms of ruling it might take a few days .
Because of the lack of time they can’t hang around like they did in the Gina Miller case.
If the Supreme Court rules against the government and Parliament is recalled does it count as a new session or the continuation of the previous one? And could prorogation still be done in future or will Parliamentary sessions run continuously between elections?
Has anybody got a read on this? I assume that if UKSC says the PM can just prorogue when he wants, then he will prorogue for a second time immediately the first expires and go for his "failing and blaming" No Deal. And GBP will collapse. But if UKSC says he cannot prorogue on whim, he will be more constrained and GBP may not collapse or even rise.
Given that money is riding like this, I would welcome a serious response.
The general view when we last discussed it seemed to be that the biggest hurdle for the petitioners is to get the SC to agree that it's justiciable, rather than none of their business. If they do, then it's relatively easy to conclude that the stated reason for prorogation was not correct and it should therefore be reversed.
If they don't, then as you say Johnson could extend it again. However, it's said that the Palace warned him "not to even think about" putting them in a position where they had to make a political judgment. Effectively suspending Parliament indefinitely in order to force something through would surely run into Palace reluctance.
That said, judges are human and they may try to split the difference, ruling that the issue is justiciable but in this case the action was not so egregious as to warrant court intervention. That would be a clear hint that on another occasion they might.
Indeed, to avoid general chaos it seems to me the best result would be for them to say it is justiciable so that any future prorogation can be challenged but that in this instant Boris was acting legally.
Some pretty senior judges were on the bench the first go round
Because it is such a large bench for the SC, should we expect their ruling might take a little time to be delivered?
I’m not sure if it’s just a one day hearing . It might go on longer . In terms of ruling it might take a few days .
Because of the lack of time they can’t hang around like they did in the Gina Miller case.
If the Trump team is some ding effort in New Mexico at the expense of work in the Rust Belt then... Well, i don't know. Maybe Clinton's campaign team aren't the most useless team of all time.
If the Supreme Court rules against the government and Parliament is recalled does it count as a new session or the continuation of the previous one? And could prorogation still be done in future or will Parliamentary sessions run continuously between elections?
The SC doesn't have the authority to end prorogation as a thing forever
If the Supreme Court rules against the government and Parliament is recalled does it count as a new session or the continuation of the previous one? And could prorogation still be done in future or will Parliamentary sessions run continuously between elections?
The court has two choices .
They could nullify totally the prorogation as if it never happened , that means any bills that normally get shelved can continue their journey through both houses .
Or they could simply cancel the rest of the prorogation.
If the Supreme Court rules against the government and Parliament is recalled does it count as a new session or the continuation of the previous one? And could prorogation still be done in future or will Parliamentary sessions run continuously between elections?
I think it would be a continuation. But I don't think it would preclude future prorogation. You need to end the session somehow.
The Scottish Court is higher than any of the others that have ruled so far .
It’s Premier League , the others the Championship. The Supreme Court is the Champions League!
The High Court bench was 3 Judges including the Master of the Rolls. It was for all practical purposes a high powered Court of Appeal and therefore equivalent to the Scottish Judgment.
My understanding is that the hearing is down for 3 days and will involve speeches from those involved in all 3 cases, including NI. No doubt there will be strict time limits applied. I would expect a decision early next week.
When support for a PM is now being portrayed as supporting Britain and thereby not supporting the PM is now classed as traitorous behaviour things have got out of hand.
To take a leaf out of the Leave handbook during the EU ref , and one of the many slogans .
Love Britain Hate Bozo !
Leavers seem to think that anyone that disagrees with Brexit is a heretic .
We simply have a difference of opinion as to what we think is best for the country . Just as we do during general elections.
There’s a difference between supporting Boris and commenting approvingly on some politician’s discourtesy to the Office of PM
Whilst I believe the use of expat instead of immigrants is trying to hide behind what, if you live abroad, you actually are I’m sure most ‘expats’ aren’t immigrants . That was meant to be a response to HY post
Screwed it up expats are immigrants but have given up trying to work to who or what I was replying.
Has anybody got a read on this? I assume that if UKSC says the PM can just prorogue when he wants, then he will prorogue for a second time immediately the first expires and go for his "failing and blaming" No Deal. And GBP will collapse. But if UKSC says he cannot prorogue on whim, he will be more constrained and GBP may not collapse or even rise.
Given that money is riding like this, I would welcome a serious response.
The general view when we last discussed it seemed to be that the biggest hurdle for the petitioners is to get the SC to agree that it's justiciable, rather than none of their business. If they do, then it's relatively easy to conclude that the stated reason for prorogation was not correct and it should therefore be reversed.
If they don't, then as you say Johnson could extend it again. However, it's said that the Palace warned him "not to even think about" putting them in a position where they had to make a political judgment. Effectively suspending Parliament indefinitely in order to force something through would surely run into Palace reluctance.
That said, judges are human and they may try to split the difference, ruling that the issue is justiciable but in this case the action was not so egregious as to warrant court intervention. That would be a clear hint that on another occasion they might.
Indeed, to avoid general chaos it seems to me the best result would be for them to say it is justiciable so that any future prorogation can be challenged but that in this instant Boris was acting legally.
Some pretty senior judges were on the bench the first go round
Because it is such a large bench for the SC, should we expect their ruling might take a little time to be delivered?
You usually have one ruling delivered by the chairman
Has anybody got a read on this? I assume that if UKSC says the PM can just prorogue when he wants, then he will prorogue for a second time immediately the first expires and go for his "failing and blaming" No Deal. And GBP will collapse. But if UKSC says he cannot prorogue on whim, he will be more constrained and GBP may not collapse or even rise.
Given that money is riding like this, I would welcome a serious response.
The general view when we last discussed it seemed to be that the biggest hurdle for the petitioners is to get the SC to agree that it's justiciable, rather than none of their business. If they do, then it's relatively easy to conclude that the stated reason for prorogation was not correct and it should therefore be reversed.
If they don't, then as you say Johnson could extend it again. However, it's said that the Palace warned him "not to even think about" putting them in a position where they had to make a political judgment. Effectively suspending Parliament indefinitely in order to force something through would surely run into Palace reluctance.
That said, judges are human and they may try to split the difference, ruling that the issue is justiciable but in this case the action was not so egregious as to warrant court intervention. That would be a clear hint that on another occasion they might.
Indeed, to avoid general chaos it seems to me the best result would be for them to say it is justiciable so that any future prorogation can be challenged but that in this instant Boris was acting legally.
Some pretty senior judges were on the bench the first go round
Because it is such a large bench for the SC, should we expect their ruling might take a little time to be delivered?
You usually have one ruling delivered by the chairman
I'll be amazed if there is only 1 ruling for this. I think that there might in fact be a wide range of views, as there is in the country.
When support for a PM is now being portrayed as supporting Britain and thereby not supporting the PM is now classed as traitorous behaviour things have got out of hand.
To take a leaf out of the Leave handbook during the EU ref , and one of the many slogans .
Love Britain Hate Bozo !
Leavers seem to think that anyone that disagrees with Brexit is a heretic .
We simply have a difference of opinion as to what we think is best for the country . Just as we do during general elections.
There’s a difference between supporting Boris and commenting approvingly on some politician’s discourtesy to the Office of PM
The dignity of the office of PM disappeared when BoZo the clown was appointed by the Tories. The exposure of that to the world is no one elses fault.
Someone’s tweeted apparently the original 9 judges were made up 5 English and 4 Scottish , then when it became 11 it became 7 to 4 .
Not that this should make a blind bit of difference . The judges will be impartial and will judge this on its merits .
I’d look out for the exchanges of Judge Sales , he’s written at length about the constitution , democracy and the law.
I think that may be the English/not English split rather than the Scottish one
English: Hale, Wilson, Carnwath, Briggs, Arden, Sales, Kitchen Scottish: Reed, Hodge N Irish: Kerr Welsh: Black, Lloyd Jones
Oh okay thanks. Did you know , Sales was referred to in the Scottish Court decision . It’s going to be a bit weird when his writings come up during the hearing !
Has anybody got a read on this? I assume that if UKSC says the PM can just prorogue when he wants, then he will prorogue for a second time immediately the first expires and go for his "failing and blaming" No Deal. And GBP will collapse. But if UKSC says he cannot prorogue on whim, he will be more constrained and GBP may not collapse or even rise.
Given that money is riding like this, I would welcome a serious response.
The general view when we last discussed it seemed to be that the biggest hurdle for the petitioners is to get the SC to agree that it's justiciable, rather than none of their business. If they do, then it's relatively easy to conclude that the stated reason for prorogation was not correct and it should therefore be reversed.
If they don't, then as you say Johnson could extend it again. However, it's said that the Palace warned him "not to even think about" putting them in a position where they had to make a political judgment. Effectively suspending Parliament indefinitely in order to force something through would surely run into Palace reluctance.
That said, judges are human and they may try to split the difference, ruling that the issue is justiciable but in this case the action was not so egregious as to warrant court intervention. That would be a clear hint that on another occasion they might.
Indeed, to avoid general chaos it seems to me the best result would be for them to say it is justiciable so that any future prorogation can be challenged but that in this instant Boris was acting legally.
Some pretty senior judges were on the bench the first go round
Because it is such a large bench for the SC, should we expect their ruling might take a little time to be delivered?
You usually have one ruling delivered by the chairman
I'll be amazed if there is only 1 ruling for this. I think that there might in fact be a wide range of views, as there is in the country.
But wouldn’t those be minority/dissenting opinions rather than the ruling of the court
When support for a PM is now being portrayed as supporting Britain and thereby not supporting the PM is now classed as traitorous behaviour things have got out of hand.
To take a leaf out of the Leave handbook during the EU ref , and one of the many slogans .
Love Britain Hate Bozo !
Leavers seem to think that anyone that disagrees with Brexit is a heretic .
We simply have a difference of opinion as to what we think is best for the country . Just as we do during general elections.
There’s a difference between supporting Boris and commenting approvingly on some politician’s discourtesy to the Office of PM
The dignity of the office of PM disappeared when BoZo the clown was appointed by the Tories. The exposure of that to the world is no one elses fault.
If the law lords still existed, would they even be sitting when Parliament is prorogued?
Then the Scottish Court decision would have meant Bozo would have to re open it.
The judges stopped short of ordering that because they wanted the SC to rule , if the Law Lords weren’t sitting they would have ordered it.
Is that the case, or are you just assuming?
It’s logical . The judges ruled the prorogation unlawful , if there was no way of testing that opinion till after the prorogation had finished then they would have made the order .
If the law lords still existed, would they even be sitting when Parliament is prorogued?
Then the Scottish Court decision would have meant Bozo would have to re open it.
The judges stopped short of ordering that because they wanted the SC to rule , if the Law Lords weren’t sitting they would have ordered it.
Is that the case, or are you just assuming?
I don't see how anyone could possibly know that. The Court of Session made their ruling in the knowledge that their order would not come into effect (they specifically refused an application for an interim order) and would be subject to review by the Supreme Court almost instantly. Had that not been the case would they have gone so far?
If the law lords still existed, would they even be sitting when Parliament is prorogued?
Then the Scottish Court decision would have meant Bozo would have to re open it.
The judges stopped short of ordering that because they wanted the SC to rule , if the Law Lords weren’t sitting they would have ordered it.
Is that the case, or are you just assuming?
It’s logical . The judges ruled the prorogation unlawful , if there was no way of testing that opinion till after the prorogation had finished then they would have made the order .
Just because it is logical doesn't mean it is necessarily true.
The nuclear ruling would be the decision was lawful in England but not Scotland .
That would mean it was still unlawful in the UK . However the Scottish judges made a point of saying that their decision wasn’t based on anything particular to Scottish law.
If the law lords still existed, would they even be sitting when Parliament is prorogued?
Then the Scottish Court decision would have meant Bozo would have to re open it.
The judges stopped short of ordering that because they wanted the SC to rule , if the Law Lords weren’t sitting they would have ordered it.
Is that the case, or are you just assuming?
I don't see how anyone could possibly know that. The Court of Session made their ruling in the knowledge that their order would not come into effect (they specifically refused an application for an interim order) and would be subject to review by the Supreme Court almost instantly. Had that not been the case would they have gone so far?
There must be an answer to my original question though, were the law lords affected by prorogation? I believe it was a committee of the HoL.
Indeed, to avoid general chaos it seems to me the best result would be for them to say it is justiciable so that any future prorogation can be challenged but that in this instant Boris was acting legally.
Some pretty senior judges were on the bench the first go round
Because it is such a large bench for the SC, should we expect their ruling might take a little time to be delivered?
You usually have one ruling delivered by the chairman
I'll be amazed if there is only 1 ruling for this. I think that there might in fact be a wide range of views, as there is in the country.
But wouldn’t those be minority/dissenting opinions rather than the ruling of the court
Oh yes, there can only be 1 majority view, although it will not necessarily be Baroness Hale's. I suspect Lord Reed will play an important part in this. Not only is he the next President, he is a distinguished public lawyer. He's a strange mixture. Sometimes small c conservative, obsessed with human rights, a legal historian (he once wrote something like 70 pages of a decision on what the law of partnership had been before the 1890 Act) and quite happy dealing with public policy issues. If I was the government I would be concerned about him.
If the law lords still existed, would they even be sitting when Parliament is prorogued?
Then the Scottish Court decision would have meant Bozo would have to re open it.
The judges stopped short of ordering that because they wanted the SC to rule , if the Law Lords weren’t sitting they would have ordered it.
Is that the case, or are you just assuming?
I don't see how anyone could possibly know that. The Court of Session made their ruling in the knowledge that their order would not come into effect (they specifically refused an application for an interim order) and would be subject to review by the Supreme Court almost instantly. Had that not been the case would they have gone so far?
There must be an answer to my original question though, were the law lords affected by prorogation? I believe it was a committee of the HoL.
No, because Parliament doesn't have to be in session for the House of Lords to meet. It can meet any time as the Great Council of State, although it cannot pass laws.
If the law lords still existed, would they even be sitting when Parliament is prorogued?
Then the Scottish Court decision would have meant Bozo would have to re open it.
The judges stopped short of ordering that because they wanted the SC to rule , if the Law Lords weren’t sitting they would have ordered it.
Is that the case, or are you just assuming?
I don't see how anyone could possibly know that. The Court of Session made their ruling in the knowledge that their order would not come into effect (they specifically refused an application for an interim order) and would be subject to review by the Supreme Court almost instantly. Had that not been the case would they have gone so far?
There must be an answer to my original question though, were the law lords affected by prorogation? I believe it was a committee of the HoL.
I don't think so. I was only once involved in a House of Lords Appeal as opposed to the Supreme Court and Parliament was sitting but the sittings of the House of Lords seemed to be fixed by reference to the legal calendar rather than the Lords itself.
I can't see how an order could be made negating the prorogation. Surely the fact the laws have been passed now means they have been passed and the session cannot be reinstated?
An order might be made for a new session to open immediately. That would certainly put many cats among many pigeons and wreck the conference season. It would however also be rather funny.
But I suspect they will rule that this was lawful, so the point is likely to be moot. Mind you, I thought that of the Court of Sessions and I was wrong, although it's still very unclear what law they thought had been broken.
Just watched the Cameron interview; sounded like he felt he’d been taken for a sucker by Gove and Johnson. Must be awful to look back at his age and feel that you’ve been a complete professional failure, slough he’s still clinging on to ‘Sorting out the mess left by Labour!’
Indeed, to avoid general chaos it seems to me the best result would be for them to say it is justiciable so that any future prorogation can be challenged but that in this instant Boris was acting legally.
Some pretty senior judges were on the bench the first go round
Because it is such a large bench for the SC, should we expect their ruling might take a little time to be delivered?
You usually have one ruling delivered by the chairman
I'll be amazed if there is only 1 ruling for this. I think that there might in fact be a wide range of views, as there is in the country.
But wouldn’t those be minority/dissenting opinions rather than the ruling of the court
Oh yes, there can only be 1 majority view, although it will not necessarily be Baroness Hale's. I suspect Lord Reed will play an important part in this. Not only is he the next President, he is a distinguished public lawyer. He's a strange mixture. Sometimes small c conservative, obsessed with human rights, a legal historian (he once wrote something like 70 pages of a decision on what the law of partnership had been before the 1890 Act) and quite happy dealing with public policy issues. If I was the government I would be concerned about him.
Lord Reed supported the appeal in government case against Gina Miller and Article 50.
He was one of three dissenting voices in that case.
Lord Sales is interesting given his views on executive over reach , he was one of the three judges in the original high court Gina Miller case and was then paraded on the front pages as an enemy of the people .
Just watched the Cameron interview; sounded like he felt he’d been taken for a sucker by Gove and Johnson. Must be awful to look back at his age and feel that you’ve been a complete professional failure, slough he’s still clinging on to ‘Sorting out the mess left by Labour!’
If you don't want to be a total failure, don't go into politics. As Enoch Powell (for once) rightly said, all political careers end in failure.
If the Trump team is some ding effort in New Mexico at the expense of work in the Rust Belt then... Well, i don't know. Maybe Clinton's campaign team aren't the most useless team of all time.
On the "by state" approval numbers from Morning Consult, New Mexico is -17 for Trump.
That's worse than the following states won by Hillary:
- Maine - Nevada - Minnesota - Virginia - Delaware
And probably some other places I didn't notice.
Now, if the US economy bounces back sharply in 2020, and the Democrats choose Warren, then New Mexico might very well be in play. But otherwise?
God Bless Xavier Bettel. What a pity the Luxembourger government didn't have a tub of lard to hand.
Would you have been pleased for Boris to do the same thing to him? If not, I struggle to see why people are so happy about it just because Boris is an arse.
Many supporters of remain have sadly reached the point where any perceived slight, embarrassment, or setback, for Britain or its Government, is what keeps them going. Pitiable self loathing creatures.
The reason I hate what people like you have done to Britain is because I love Britain. So shove your patriotic willy waving competition where the sun doesn't shine.
Good point. Also worth remembering that Dr Johnson's quip about patriotism being the last refuge of a scoundrel was a comment on scoundrels not patriots.
Unfortunately, I think this article is probably on the money: many Europeans just want rid of us now. It certainly chimes with what I get from interacting with EU-national friends and colleagues, who increasingly view us as a joke, ruled by an incompetent elite with delusions of grandeur and no real sense of our diminished status in the world.
What Brexiteers tend to misunderstand is that many educated Continental Europeans are gut Anglophiles. Their anger at Brexit is magnified by a sense of disillusionment that a country they had loved and respected has turned out to be such a ludicrous basket-case.
There will be no easy way back from this - my children's children will most likely still be dealing with the aftermath of the Brexit disaster that the Tory party has wrought.
Just watched the Cameron interview; sounded like he felt he’d been taken for a sucker by Gove and Johnson. Must be awful to look back at his age and feel that you’ve been a complete professional failure, slough he’s still clinging on to ‘Sorting out the mess left by Labour!’
If you don't want to be a total failure, don't go into politics. As Enoch Powell (for once) rightly said, all political careers end in failure.
He’s 53 in a couple of weeks. That’s very young to be ending one’s career. Does he play golf?
Once again I'm left with the obvious - Boris Johnson needs to talk positive to keep his supporters happy and because, as a populist, he will say whatever he thinks his audience wants to hear. At the moment, it's all "optimism" and "progress" and "serious work has to start" (as distinct from the inertia of the last two and a half years or more I suppose?).
From the EU side, it's a familiar refrain - "bring forward some serious solutions". Once again, there;s nothing - again, what have we been doing for the past two and a half years? We voted to leave, we are causing the issues so it only seems right we should provide some solutions.
I mean, it's almost as though we activated A50 without the slightest idea of how we were going to see it through. I even think the much-maligned WA was basically a document handed to May by the EU just to help her out (which it did but not in the way the EU intended).
A cynic might argue the UK Government doesn't want to leave and is only paying lip-service to the 2016 Referendum. I don't think we're that fortunate - we don't know how to leave. No Deal is the option because we literally cannot think of any other route out and we've managed to block that for ourselves.
Johnson is now going through the motions - I expect a vitriolic anti-EU anti-Remain rant at the Conservative Party Conference after which he will go to the EU Council full of "optimism" and then announce that despite his efforts, the EU have failed to see things his way and instead offered him an extension to have another try. He will have to refuse that and the endgame will begin.
Those Conservatives opposed to No Deal who have so far remained loyal to Johnson will then have to start doing some hard thinking.
Just watched the Cameron interview; sounded like he felt he’d been taken for a sucker by Gove and Johnson. Must be awful to look back at his age and feel that you’ve been a complete professional failure, slough he’s still clinging on to ‘Sorting out the mess left by Labour!’
If you don't want to be a total failure, don't go into politics. As Enoch Powell (for once) rightly said, all political careers end in failure.
He’s 53 in a couple of weeks. That’s very young to be ending one’s career. Does he play golf?
Well, he made a balls up of something he thought he had to a tee. There is an irony in that, woodn't you say?
Unfortunately, I think this article is probably on the money: many Europeans just want rid of us now. It certainly chimes with what I get from interacting with EU-national friends and colleagues, who increasingly view us as a joke, ruled by an incompetent elite with delusions of grandeur and no real sense of our diminished status in the world.
What Brexiteers tend to misunderstand is that many educated Continental Europeans are gut Anglophiles. Their anger at Brexit is magnified by a sense of disillusionment that a country they had loved and respected has turned out to be such a ludicrous basket-case.
There will be no easy way back from this - my children's children will most likely still be dealing with the aftermath of the Brexit disaster that the Tory party has wrought.
I remember when Thatcher entered No.10 for the first time.The crowds booing her didn't put her off. Boris would have had a microphone to transmit his words in any case. Booing crowds are part of the deal when you are PM. It is sad indictment on BJ, that unless any event is on his terms he will not participate. I don't think he is in the right job...
Unfortunately, I think this article is probably on the money: many Europeans just want rid of us now. It certainly chimes with what I get from interacting with EU-national friends and colleagues, who increasingly view us as a joke, ruled by an incompetent elite with delusions of grandeur and no real sense of our diminished status in the world.
What Brexiteers tend to misunderstand is that many educated Continental Europeans are gut Anglophiles. Their anger at Brexit is magnified by a sense of disillusionment that a country they had loved and respected has turned out to be such a ludicrous basket-case.
There will be no easy way back from this - my children's children will most likely still be dealing with the aftermath of the Brexit disaster that the Tory party has wrought.
If the EU27 want Brexit dealt with then all the more reason to compromise over the backstop to get a deal through. The Brady Amendment [WDA minus backstop] remains the only 'deal' Parliament has voted for in principle and the numbers are there if they can compromise.
I think for the EU27 Brexit is now like a patient who needs to get a tooth extracted. I had that with my wisdom teeth as they grew wrong and at first there was a feeling of regret that I didn't want to lose any teeth but by the end after waiting the agony it was causing meant that when it happened actually extraction felt like a relief not a loss or a pain.
In March I think the EU27 were unwilling and unable to compromise, standing firm and thinking that maybe dragging this out was for the best. Now our best chance of success is that the EU27 are in the "whatever it takes just get this over with" stage.
Unfortunately, I think this article is probably on the money: many Europeans just want rid of us now. It certainly chimes with what I get from interacting with EU-national friends and colleagues, who increasingly view us as a joke, ruled by an incompetent elite with delusions of grandeur and no real sense of our diminished status in the world.
What Brexiteers tend to misunderstand is that many educated Continental Europeans are gut Anglophiles. Their anger at Brexit is magnified by a sense of disillusionment that a country they had loved and respected has turned out to be such a ludicrous basket-case.
There will be no easy way back from this - my children's children will most likely still be dealing with the aftermath of the Brexit disaster that the Tory party has wrought.
I remember when Thatcher entered No.10 for the first time.The crowds booing her didn't put her off. Boris would have had a microphone to transmit his words in any case. Booing crowds are part of the deal when you are PM. It is sad indictment on BJ, that unless any event is on his terms he will not enguage. I don't think he is in the right job...
I remember when Thatcher entered No.10 for the first time.The crowds booing her didn't put her off. Boris would have had a microphone to transmit his words in any case. Booing crowds are part of the deal when you are PM. It is sad indictment on BJ, that unless any event is on his terms he will not enguage. I don't think he is in the right job...
I remember when Thatcher entered No.10 for the first time.The crowds booing her didn't put her off. Boris would have had a microphone to transmit his words in any case. Booing crowds are part of the deal when you are PM. It is sad indictment on BJ, that unless any event is on his terms he will not enguage. I don't think he is in the right job...
Unfortunately, I think this article is probably on the money: many Europeans just want rid of us now. It certainly chimes with what I get from interacting with EU-national friends and colleagues, who increasingly view us as a joke, ruled by an incompetent elite with delusions of grandeur and no real sense of our diminished status in the world.
What Brexiteers tend to misunderstand is that many educated Continental Europeans are gut Anglophiles. Their anger at Brexit is magnified by a sense of disillusionment that a country they had loved and respected has turned out to be such a ludicrous basket-case.
There will be no easy way back from this - my children's children will most likely still be dealing with the aftermath of the Brexit disaster that the Tory party has wrought.
If the EU27 want Brexit dealt with then all the more reason to compromise over the backstop to get a deal through. The Brady Amendment [WDA minus backstop] remains the only 'deal' Parliament has voted for in principle and the numbers are there if they can compromise.
I think for the EU27 Brexit is now like a patient who needs to get a tooth extracted. I had that with my wisdom teeth as they grew wrong and at first there was a feeling of regret that I didn't want to lose any teeth but by the end after waiting the agony it was causing meant that when it happened actually extraction felt like a relief not a loss or a pain.
In March I think the EU27 were unwilling and unable to compromise, standing firm and thinking that maybe dragging this out was for the best. Now our best chance of success is that the EU27 are in the "whatever it takes just get this over with" stage.
The 'Brady Amendment' is just the 'Fuck Ireland' amendment. Perhaps the rest of the EU are so sick of us now they would throw Ireland under a bus to achieve it, but I am doubtful. Still, I think your wisdom teeth analogy is a good one. I guess we are the wisdom teeth in your story, and the EU is you. I am guessing that you are now totally fine (apart from being a Brexiteer, obvs) and your wisdom teeth were incinerated with other medical waste.
Unfortunately, I think this article is probably on the money: many Europeans just want rid of us now. It certainly chimes with what I get from interacting with EU-national friends and colleagues, who increasingly view us as a joke, ruled by an incompetent elite with delusions of grandeur and no real sense of our diminished status in the world.
What Brexiteers tend to misunderstand is that many educated Continental Europeans are gut Anglophiles. Their anger at Brexit is magnified by a sense of disillusionment that a country they had loved and respected has turned out to be such a ludicrous basket-case.
There will be no easy way back from this - my children's children will most likely still be dealing with the aftermath of the Brexit disaster that the Tory party has wrought.
If the EU27 want Brexit dealt with then all the more reason to compromise over the backstop to get a deal through. The Brady Amendment [WDA minus backstop] remains the only 'deal' Parliament has voted for in principle and the numbers are there if they can compromise.
I think for the EU27 Brexit is now like a patient who needs to get a tooth extracted. I had that with my wisdom teeth as they grew wrong and at first there was a feeling of regret that I didn't want to lose any teeth but by the end after waiting the agony it was causing meant that when it happened actually extraction felt like a relief not a loss or a pain.
In March I think the EU27 were unwilling and unable to compromise, standing firm and thinking that maybe dragging this out was for the best. Now our best chance of success is that the EU27 are in the "whatever it takes just get this over with" stage.
The 'Brady Amendment' is just the 'Fuck Ireland' amendment. Perhaps the rest of the EU are so sick of us now they would throw Ireland under a bus to achieve it, but I am doubtful. Still, I think your wisdom teeth analogy is a good one. I guess we are the wisdom teeth in your story, and the EU is you. I am guessing that you are now totally fine (apart from being a Brexiteer, obvs) and your wisdom teeth were incinerated with other medical waste.
Yeah that's exactly what I meant by the wisdom teeth analogy. We are the painful tooth that needs extracting.
LOL at your medical waste retort. Clever comeback.
God Bless Xavier Bettel. What a pity the Luxembourger government didn't have a tub of lard to hand.
Would you have been pleased for Boris to do the same thing to him? If not, I struggle to see why people are so happy about it just because Boris is an arse.
Many supporters of remain have sadly reached the point where any perceived slight, embarrassment, or setback, for Britain or its Government, is what keeps them going. Pitiable self loathing creatures.
Nonsense .
Why should I support Bozo and his criminal cabal in no 10. I don’t care if the government is humiliated or embarrassed . I didn’t realize we all had to swear allegiance to the great one !
I support Britain , any humiliation to it is being caused by the Brexit fiasco which I didn’t vote for .
You voted for it and so own it , so cut the whining and accept responsibility for your vote !
Firstly I said 'many' - if you include yourself in that number, that's on you, as with all those whose nerves have obviously been touched.
Secondly, I said 'perceived'. I don't consider Luxembourg failing to observe diplomatic niceties to be embarrassing for Britain or our PM, I consider it to be embarrassing for Luxembourg. It will delight those it was intended to delight.
Why should you care? Because in his official capacity overseas, Boris represents us, regardless of whether we voted for him or like his politics, and the treatment he receives is treatment of us.
I remember when Thatcher entered No.10 for the first time.The crowds booing her didn't put her off. Boris would have had a microphone to transmit his words in any case. Booing crowds are part of the deal when you are PM. It is sad indictment on BJ, that unless any event is on his terms he will not participate. I don't think he is in the right job...
BJ is apparently someone who is in awe of Churchill. You can accuse Churchill of many things, but cowardice isn't really one of them.
I can't see Boris escaping a South African POW camp, or standing outside the Sidney Street Siege, if he can't face a few protesters.
Unfortunately, I think this article is probably on the money: many Europeans just want rid of us now. It certainly chimes with what I get from interacting with EU-national friends and colleagues, who increasingly view us as a joke, ruled by an incompetent elite with delusions of grandeur and no real sense of our diminished status in the world.
What Brexiteers tend to misunderstand is that many educated Continental Europeans are gut Anglophiles. Their anger at Brexit is magnified by a sense of disillusionment that a country they had loved and respected has turned out to be such a ludicrous basket-case.
There will be no easy way back from this - my children's children will most likely still be dealing with the aftermath of the Brexit disaster that the Tory party has wrought.
If the EU is so keen to be rid of us it should just veto any extension.
Hopefully if Boris gets a deal on 17th Oct the EU will make it clear to Parliament that there will be no further extension and if they vote it down we'll have to leave with No Deal.
God Bless Xavier Bettel. What a pity the Luxembourger government didn't have a tub of lard to hand.
Would you have been pleased for Boris to do the same thing to him? If not, I struggle to see why people are so happy about it just because Boris is an arse.
Many supporters of remain have sadly reached the point where any perceived slight, embarrassment, or setback, for Britain or its Government, is what keeps them going. Pitiable self loathing creatures.
Nonsense .
Why should I support Bozo and his criminal cabal in no 10. I don’t care if the government is humiliated or embarrassed . I didn’t realize we all had to swear allegiance to the great one !
I support Britain , any humiliation to it is being caused by the Brexit fiasco which I didn’t vote for .
You voted for it and so own it , so cut the whining and accept responsibility for your vote !
Firstly I said 'many' - if you include yourself in that number, that's on you, as with all those whose nerves have obviously been touched.
Secondly, I said 'perceived'. I don't consider Luxembourg failing to observe diplomatic niceties to be embarrassing for Britain or our PM, I consider it to be embarrassing for Luxembourg. It will delight those it was intended to delight.
Why should you care? Because in his official capacity overseas, Boris represents us, regardless of whether we voted for him or like his politics, and the treatment he receives is treatment of us.
Don't be silly. That last paragraph implies that, by the same measure, protesters against Trump's visit to the UK were attacking the US, which they weren't of course.
Just watched the Cameron interview; sounded like he felt he’d been taken for a sucker by Gove and Johnson. Must be awful to look back at his age and feel that you’ve been a complete professional failure, slough he’s still clinging on to ‘Sorting out the mess left by Labour!’
If you don't want to be a total failure, don't go into politics. As Enoch Powell (for once) rightly said, all political careers end in failure.
End in failure is not the same as being a failure over your term of office
I'm no fan of Boris, but the protestors were making a hell of a racket today, and far louder than anything I've heard from Downing Street. Maybe he should have done the press conference, but it was not a good location if you actually wanted to hear what he had to say.
Unfortunately, I think this article is probably on the money: many Europeans just want rid of us now. It certainly chimes with what I get from interacting with EU-national friends and colleagues, who increasingly view us as a joke, ruled by an incompetent elite with delusions of grandeur and no real sense of our diminished status in the world.
What Brexiteers tend to misunderstand is that many educated Continental Europeans are gut Anglophiles. Their anger at Brexit is magnified by a sense of disillusionment that a country they had loved and respected has turned out to be such a ludicrous basket-case.
There will be no easy way back from this - my children's children will most likely still be dealing with the aftermath of the Brexit disaster that the Tory party has wrought.
If the EU27 want Brexit dealt with then all the more reason to compromise over the backstop to get a deal through. The Brady Amendment [WDA minus backstop] remains the only 'deal' Parliament has voted for in principle and the numbers are there if they can compromise.
I think for the EU27 Brexit is now like a patient who needs to get a tooth extracted. I had that with my wisdom teeth as they grew wrong and at first there was a feeling of regret that I didn't want to lose any teeth but by the end after waiting the agony it was causing meant that when it happened actually extraction felt like a relief not a loss or a pain.
In March I think the EU27 were unwilling and unable to compromise, standing firm and thinking that maybe dragging this out was for the best. Now our best chance of success is that the EU27 are in the "whatever it takes just get this over with" stage.
The 'Brady Amendment' is just the 'Fuck Ireland' amendment. Perhaps the rest of the EU are so sick of us now they would throw Ireland under a bus to achieve it, but I am doubtful. Still, I think your wisdom teeth analogy is a good one. I guess we are the wisdom teeth in your story, and the EU is you. I am guessing that you are now totally fine (apart from being a Brexiteer, obvs) and your wisdom teeth were incinerated with other medical waste.
There is NO CHANCE the other members of the EU will throw Ireland under a bus. Ireland, after, all is the EU member most likely to be disadvantaged and/or damaged by the bizarre and irrational behaviour of the UK.
Just watched the Cameron interview; sounded like he felt he’d been taken for a sucker by Gove and Johnson. Must be awful to look back at his age and feel that you’ve been a complete professional failure, slough he’s still clinging on to ‘Sorting out the mess left by Labour!’
If you don't want to be a total failure, don't go into politics. As Enoch Powell (for once) rightly said, all political careers end in failure.
End in failure is not the same as being a failure over your term of office
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
Their size is irrelevant, they aren't under threat of invasion. It was undiplomatic and petulant and I'm confident hes getting his nuts kicked by Merkel and co tonight
I'm no fan of Boris, but the protestors were making a hell of a racket today, and far louder than anything I've heard from Downing Street. Maybe he should have done the press conference, but it was not a good location if you actually wanted to hear what he had to say.
Boris could do with listening a bit more and talking a bit less.
Unfortunately, I think this article is probably on the money: many Europeans just want rid of us now. It certainly chimes with what I get from interacting with EU-national friends and colleagues, who increasingly view us as a joke, ruled by an incompetent elite with delusions of grandeur and no real sense of our diminished status in the world.
What Brexiteers tend to misunderstand is that many educated Continental Europeans are gut Anglophiles. Their anger at Brexit is magnified by a sense of disillusionment that a country they had loved and respected has turned out to be such a ludicrous basket-case.
There will be no easy way back from this - my children's children will most likely still be dealing with the aftermath of the Brexit disaster that the Tory party has wrought.
If the EU is so keen to be rid of us it should just veto any extension.
I’m quite sure that for every single one of them their instinct/desire is to do just that. But unlike the British Govt they actually care about the effect that this will have on those they purport to represent.
And as far as those arguing that “why they don’t just ditch the backstop?” - I reckon they would be glad to do that also, except they genuinely can’t ding a way to do so within the requirements of the GFA and the interests of the Irish people (on both sides of the border). Now on the latter point I think they may be failing to recognise the merits of the traditional British solution of turning a blind eye, but I think they are genuine.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Indeed. What Remainers, in their glee don't get is that for the majority of Leavers this all just confirms why we were right to leave the EU and attempt to forge new links with our real friends and allies...
Just watched the Cameron interview; sounded like he felt he’d been taken for a sucker by Gove and Johnson. Must be awful to look back at his age and feel that you’ve been a complete professional failure, slough he’s still clinging on to ‘Sorting out the mess left by Labour!’
If you don't want to be a total failure, don't go into politics. As Enoch Powell (for once) rightly said, all political careers end in failure.
End in failure is not the same as being a failure over your term of office
Indeed that's true. Boris is showing us what the latter looks like.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
Their size is irrelevant, they aren't under threat of invasion. It was undiplomatic and petulant and I'm confident hes getting his nuts kicked by Merkel and co tonight
And you think leavers will change their minds over this behaviour?
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Indeed. What Remainers, in their glee don't get is that for the majority of Leavers this all just confirms why we were right to leave the EU and attempt to forge new links with our real friends and allies...
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Indeed. What Remainers, in their glee don't get is that for the majority of Leavers this all just confirms why we were right to leave the EU and attempt to forge new links with our real friends and allies...
Unfortunately, I think this article is probably on the money: many Europeans just want rid of us now. It certainly chimes with what I get from interacting with EU-national friends and colleagues, who increasingly view us as a joke, ruled by an incompetent elite with delusions of grandeur and no real sense of our diminished status in the world.
What Brexiteers tend to misunderstand is that many educated Continental Europeans are gut Anglophiles. Their anger at Brexit is magnified by a sense of disillusionment that a country they had loved and respected has turned out to be such a ludicrous basket-case.
There will be no easy way back from this - my children's children will most likely still be dealing with the aftermath of the Brexit disaster that the Tory party has wrought.
If the EU27 want Brexit dealt with then all the more reason to compromise over the backstop to get a deal through. The Brady Amendment [WDA minus backstop] remains the only 'deal' Parliament has voted for in principle and the numbers are there if they can compromise.
I think for the EU27 Brexit is now like a patient who needs to get a tooth extracted. I had that with my wisdom teeth as they grew wrong and at first there was a feeling of regret that I didn't want to lose any teeth but by the end after waiting the agony it was causing meant that when it happened actually extraction felt like a relief not a loss or a pain.
In March I think the EU27 were unwilling and unable to compromise, standing firm and thinking that maybe dragging this out was for the best. Now our best chance of success is that the EU27 are in the "whatever it takes just get this over with" stage.
The 'Brady Amendment' is just the 'Fuck Ireland' amendment. Perhaps the rest of the EU are so sick of us now they would throw Ireland under a bus to achieve it, but I am doubtful. Still, I think your wisdom teeth analogy is a good one. I guess we are the wisdom teeth in your story, and the EU is you. I am guessing that you are now totally fine (apart from being a Brexiteer, obvs) and your wisdom teeth were incinerated with other medical waste.
There is NO CHANCE the other members of the EU will throw Ireland under a bus. Ireland, after, all is the EU member most likely to be disadvantaged and/or damaged by the bizarre and irrational behaviour of the UK.
Get real
They threw half of Southern Europe under the bus when it suited Germany.
Once again I'm left with the obvious - Boris Johnson needs to talk positive to keep his supporters happy and because, as a populist, he will say whatever he thinks his audience wants to hear. At the moment, it's all "optimism" and "progress" and "serious work has to start" (as distinct from the inertia of the last two and a half years or more I suppose?).
From the EU side, it's a familiar refrain - "bring forward some serious solutions". Once again, there;s nothing - again, what have we been doing for the past two and a half years? We voted to leave, we are causing the issues so it only seems right we should provide some solutions.
I mean, it's almost as though we activated A50 without the slightest idea of how we were going to see it through. I even think the much-maligned WA was basically a document handed to May by the EU just to help her out (which it did but not in the way the EU intended).
A cynic might argue the UK Government doesn't want to leave and is only paying lip-service to the 2016 Referendum. I don't think we're that fortunate - we don't know how to leave. No Deal is the option because we literally cannot think of any other route out and we've managed to block that for ourselves.
Johnson is now going through the motions - I expect a vitriolic anti-EU anti-Remain rant at the Conservative Party Conference after which he will go to the EU Council full of "optimism" and then announce that despite his efforts, the EU have failed to see things his way and instead offered him an extension to have another try. He will have to refuse that and the endgame will begin.
Those Conservatives opposed to No Deal who have so far remained loyal to Johnson will then have to start doing some hard thinking.
I can't see Boris escaping a South African POW camp.
That doesn't help us much unless he gets put in one in the first place.
It'd make a great reality TV show.
"And in camp tonight, the ex-SAS and SBS interrogators fall asleep as Boris waffles a ten-minute answer to the question: "Can you please sit down?".
"...Oh, I'm only supposed to give my name and number, aren't I? Well, as my good friend Gove in the next cell is apt to say, and I believe Patel who's on the other side did as well ... Cripes, I've just given you their names! It's a good job I didn't tell you we were here to prepare the Golgafrinchan B Ark - leastways, that's what they said when they sent us here..."
Unfortunately, Boris fails to capitalise on his captors' sleep, as he saws through his arm instead of the gate's bars, and it turns out the guard dogs couldn't understand a word he was saying, but had a well-tuned hatred of bullshit."
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Indeed. What Remainers, in their glee don't get is that for the majority of Leavers this all just confirms why we were right to leave the EU and attempt to forge new links with our real friends and allies...
Absolutely. The PM goes to meet Juncker for talks and, as a courtesy, also meets the PM of that country and is repaid with that astonishing display of unprofessional rudeness.
Unfortunately, I think this article is probably on the money: many Europeans just want rid of us now. It certainly chimes with what I get from interacting with EU-national friends and colleagues, who increasingly view us as a joke, ruled by an incompetent elite with delusions of grandeur and no real sense of our diminished status in the world.
What Brexiteers tend to misunderstand is that many educated Continental Europeans are gut Anglophiles. Their anger at Brexit is magnified by a sense of disillusionment that a country they had loved and respected has turned out to be such a ludicrous basket-case.
There will be no easy way back from this - my children's children will most likely still be dealing with the aftermath of the Brexit disaster that the Tory party has wrought.
Yes, quite possibly. Which is why I keep saying Leavers and Remainers should unite around a moderate Leave that respects the result and allows for a constructive relationship with our European neighbours.
Comments
I had 2 Luxembourgish friends at university who were charm personified
Not that this should make a blind bit of difference . The judges will be impartial and will judge this on its merits .
I’d look out for the exchanges of Judge Sales , he’s written at length about the constitution , democracy and the law.
These markets have a way to drift yet.
It’s Premier League , the others the Championship. The Supreme Court is the Champions League!
How have we slipped into a world where the USA gets to decide who lives and who dies on the back of "intelligence"without any form of oversight, declaration of war, legal justification etc? I fear that these policies are playing a major role in destabilising the Middle East and generating waves of hatred that will last generations.
Our government, indeed all western governments, have been shamefully quiet about this, even allowing the use of this technology from this country. It is interesting how shocked we are when drones are used against our interests.
Because of the lack of time they can’t hang around like they did in the Gina Miller case.
https://twitter.com/politico/status/1173665397838635008?s=19
If the Trump team is some ding effort in New Mexico at the expense of work in the Rust Belt then... Well, i don't know. Maybe Clinton's campaign team aren't the most useless team of all time.
They could nullify totally the prorogation as if it never happened , that means any bills that normally get shelved can continue their journey through both houses .
Or they could simply cancel the rest of the prorogation.
My understanding is that the hearing is down for 3 days and will involve speeches from those involved in all 3 cases, including NI. No doubt there will be strict time limits applied. I would expect a decision early next week.
English: Hale, Wilson, Carnwath, Briggs, Arden, Sales, Kitchen
Scottish: Reed, Hodge
N Irish: Kerr
Welsh: Black, Lloyd Jones
TWTAIHGAC
The judges stopped short of ordering that because they wanted the SC to rule , if the Law Lords weren’t sitting they would have ordered it.
Maybe he will appeal on the basis that his human rights as PM have been violated....
That would mean it was still unlawful in the UK . However the Scottish judges made a point of saying that their decision wasn’t based on anything particular to Scottish law.
It’s an unlikely outcome .
An order might be made for a new session to open immediately. That would certainly put many cats among many pigeons and wreck the conference season. It would however also be rather funny.
But I suspect they will rule that this was lawful, so the point is likely to be moot. Mind you, I thought that of the Court of Sessions and I was wrong, although it's still very unclear what law they thought had been broken.
Must be awful to look back at his age and feel that you’ve been a complete professional failure, slough he’s still clinging on to ‘Sorting out the mess left by Labour!’
He was one of three dissenting voices in that case.
Lord Sales is interesting given his views on executive over reach , he was one of the three judges in the original high court Gina Miller case and was then paraded on the front pages as an enemy of the people .
That's worse than the following states won by Hillary:
- Maine
- Nevada
- Minnesota
- Virginia
- Delaware
And probably some other places I didn't notice.
Now, if the US economy bounces back sharply in 2020, and the Democrats choose Warren, then New Mexico might very well be in play. But otherwise?
What Brexiteers tend to misunderstand is that many educated Continental Europeans are gut Anglophiles. Their anger at Brexit is magnified by a sense of disillusionment that a country they had loved and respected has turned out to be such a ludicrous basket-case.
There will be no easy way back from this - my children's children will most likely still be dealing with the aftermath of the Brexit disaster that the Tory party has wrought.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/16/bettels-anger-highlights-a-bleak-truth-the-eu27-just-wants-britain-to-go
Once again I'm left with the obvious - Boris Johnson needs to talk positive to keep his supporters happy and because, as a populist, he will say whatever he thinks his audience wants to hear. At the moment, it's all "optimism" and "progress" and "serious work has to start" (as distinct from the inertia of the last two and a half years or more I suppose?).
From the EU side, it's a familiar refrain - "bring forward some serious solutions". Once again, there;s nothing - again, what have we been doing for the past two and a half years? We voted to leave, we are causing the issues so it only seems right we should provide some solutions.
I mean, it's almost as though we activated A50 without the slightest idea of how we were going to see it through. I even think the much-maligned WA was basically a document handed to May by the EU just to help her out (which it did but not in the way the EU intended).
A cynic might argue the UK Government doesn't want to leave and is only paying lip-service to the 2016 Referendum. I don't think we're that fortunate - we don't know how to leave. No Deal is the option because we literally cannot think of any other route out and we've managed to block that for ourselves.
Johnson is now going through the motions - I expect a vitriolic anti-EU anti-Remain rant at the Conservative Party Conference after which he will go to the EU Council full of "optimism" and then announce that despite his efforts, the EU have failed to see things his way and instead offered him an extension to have another try. He will have to refuse that and the endgame will begin.
Those Conservatives opposed to No Deal who have so far remained loyal to Johnson will then have to start doing some hard thinking.
4 supported Gina Miller in her Article 50 case .
2 didn’t .
Given Lord Sales entry into the court he would be added to the 4.
So 5 to 2 .
If the EU27 want Brexit dealt with then all the more reason to compromise over the backstop to get a deal through. The Brady Amendment [WDA minus backstop] remains the only 'deal' Parliament has voted for in principle and the numbers are there if they can compromise.
I think for the EU27 Brexit is now like a patient who needs to get a tooth extracted. I had that with my wisdom teeth as they grew wrong and at first there was a feeling of regret that I didn't want to lose any teeth but by the end after waiting the agony it was causing meant that when it happened actually extraction felt like a relief not a loss or a pain.
In March I think the EU27 were unwilling and unable to compromise, standing firm and thinking that maybe dragging this out was for the best. Now our best chance of success is that the EU27 are in the "whatever it takes just get this over with" stage.
Still, I think your wisdom teeth analogy is a good one. I guess we are the wisdom teeth in your story, and the EU is you. I am guessing that you are now totally fine (apart from being a Brexiteer, obvs) and your wisdom teeth were incinerated with other medical waste.
LOL at your medical waste retort. Clever comeback.
Secondly, I said 'perceived'. I don't consider Luxembourg failing to observe diplomatic niceties to be embarrassing for Britain or our PM, I consider it to be embarrassing for Luxembourg. It will delight those it was intended to delight.
Why should you care? Because in his official capacity overseas, Boris represents us, regardless of whether we voted for him or like his politics, and the treatment he receives is treatment of us.
I can't see Boris escaping a South African POW camp, or standing outside the Sidney Street Siege, if he can't face a few protesters.
And as far as those arguing that “why they don’t just ditch the backstop?” - I reckon they would be glad to do that also, except they genuinely can’t ding a way to do so within the requirements of the GFA and the interests of the Irish people (on both sides of the border). Now on the latter point I think they may be failing to recognise the merits of the traditional British solution of turning a blind eye, but I think they are genuine.
A few things stand out .
The government has not provided a single witness statement as to the reasons for such a long prorogation.
It refuses to release documents it was asked for in the humble address .
The normal conference recess is voted on , the prorogation stopped MPs from expressing an opinion, whether to shorten that or scrap it altogether .
They threw half of Southern Europe under the bus when it suited Germany.
Do you still support Leave?
"And in camp tonight, the ex-SAS and SBS interrogators fall asleep as Boris waffles a ten-minute answer to the question: "Can you please sit down?".
"...Oh, I'm only supposed to give my name and number, aren't I? Well, as my good friend Gove in the next cell is apt to say, and I believe Patel who's on the other side did as well ... Cripes, I've just given you their names! It's a good job I didn't tell you we were here to prepare the Golgafrinchan B Ark - leastways, that's what they said when they sent us here..."
Unfortunately, Boris fails to capitalise on his captors' sleep, as he saws through his arm instead of the gate's bars, and it turns out the guard dogs couldn't understand a word he was saying, but had a well-tuned hatred of bullshit."
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
It's the only way out.