One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
Their size is irrelevant, they aren't under threat of invasion. It was undiplomatic and petulant and I'm confident hes getting his nuts kicked by Merkel and co tonight
And you think leavers will change their minds over this behaviour?
Unfortunately, I think this article is probably on the money: many Europeans just want rid of us now. It certainly chimes with what I get from interacting with EU-national friends and colleagues, who increasingly view us as a joke, ruled by an incompetent elite with delusions of grandeur and no real sense of our diminished status in the world.
What Brexiteers tend to misunderstand is that many educated Continental Europeans are gut Anglophiles. Their anger at Brexit is magnified by a sense of disillusionment that a country they had loved and respected has turned out to be such a ludicrous basket-case.
There will be no easy way back from this - my children's children will most likely still be dealing with the aftermath of the Brexit disaster that the Tory party has wrought.
If the EU is so keen to be rid of us it should just veto any extension.
Hopefully if Boris gets a deal on 17th Oct the EU will make it clear to Parliament that there will be no further extension and if they vote it down we'll have to leave with No Deal.
Which would make the recent months of posturing about the horrors of No Deal - posturing?
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Indeed. What Remainers, in their glee don't get is that for the majority of Leavers this all just confirms why we were right to leave the EU and attempt to forge new links with our real friends and allies...
A true friend will.tell you when you're being a total dick and need to stop, rather than jeer you on to greater dickishness.
I'm sure a majority of Leavers hold to that maxim too.
Need an England test match asap please to divert from this embarrassing nonsense.
Talking of which the great @AlistairM was sending me strange cricket-related tweets on the previous thread. I understood not a word. What have I done to lead to such behaviour? Should I do penance by, gasp, eating pineapple and pizza followed by a milky chocolate sprinkled with melted Jaffa cake?
I hope not because the very thought of such “food” makes me feel quite nauseous.
I'm no fan of Boris, but the protestors were making a hell of a racket today, and far louder than anything I've heard from Downing Street. Maybe he should have done the press conference, but it was not a good location if you actually wanted to hear what he had to say.
Boris could do with listening a bit more and talking a bit less.
He could, but that doesn't change the fact that he was expected to speak from a podium that couldn't have been more than 20 metres from protestors, some of who seemed to have megaphones. It was very noisy, and he would have been drowned out.
Unfortunately, I think this article is probably on the money: many Europeans just want rid of us now. It certainly chimes with what I get from interacting with EU-national friends and colleagues, who increasingly view us as a joke, ruled by an incompetent elite with delusions of grandeur and no real sense of our diminished status in the world.
What Brexiteers tend to misunderstand is that many educated Continental Europeans are gut Anglophiles. Their anger at Brexit is magnified by a sense of disillusionment that a country they had loved and respected has turned out to be such a ludicrous basket-case.
There will be no easy way back from this - my children's children will most likely still be dealing with the aftermath of the Brexit disaster that the Tory party has wrought.
Yes, quite possibly. Which is why I keep saying Leavers and Remainers should unite around a moderate Leave that respects the result and allows for a constructive relationship with our European neighbours.
It's the only way out.
There isn't one on offer. May's deal was the original hard brexit. They should have gone straight to SM&CU and people like me would have been on board. That was the compromise that would have satisfied enough of both the 52% and the 48%. But the government torched the middle ground, so fuck em. I'm voting for revoke or rejoin, depending on the state of things at the next election.
Unfortunately, I think this article is probably on the money: many Europeans just want rid of us now. It certainly chimes with what I get from interacting with EU-national friends and colleagues, who increasingly view us as a joke, ruled by an incompetent elite with delusions of grandeur and no real sense of our diminished status in the world.
What Brexiteers tend to misunderstand is that many educated Continental Europeans are gut Anglophiles. Their anger at Brexit is magnified by a sense of disillusionment that a country they had loved and respected has turned out to be such a ludicrous basket-case.
There will be no easy way back from this - my children's children will most likely still be dealing with the aftermath of the Brexit disaster that the Tory party has wrought.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
I've said for years we should pull the plug on NATO (or at least out involvement in it) and spend the money on the NHS.
If we pull out Donald will be off like a shot I expect.
I remember when Thatcher entered No.10 for the first time.The crowds booing her didn't put her off. Boris would have had a microphone to transmit his words in any case. Booing crowds are part of the deal when you are PM. It is sad indictment on BJ, that unless any event is on his terms he will not participate. I don't think he is in the right job...
BJ is apparently someone who is in awe of Churchill. You can accuse Churchill of many things, but cowardice isn't really one of them.
I can't see Boris escaping a South African POW camp, or standing outside the Sidney Street Siege, if he can't face a few protesters.
"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts. To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often. Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen."
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Indeed. What Remainers, in their glee don't get is that for the majority of Leavers this all just confirms why we were right to leave the EU and attempt to forge new links with our real friends and allies...
I'm no fan of Boris, but the protestors were making a hell of a racket today, and far louder than anything I've heard from Downing Street. Maybe he should have done the press conference, but it was not a good location if you actually wanted to hear what he had to say.
Boris could do with listening a bit more and talking a bit less.
He could, but that doesn't change the fact that he was expected to speak from a podium that couldn't have been more than 20 metres from protestors, some of who seemed to have megaphones. It was very noisy, and he would have been drowned out.
I’m sure the Luxembourg PM would have asked the crowd to calm down . If they didn’t and it wasn’t possible to continue then fine walk off.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
I've said for years we should pull the plug on NATO (or at least out involvement in it) and spend the money on the NHS.
If we pull out Donald will be off like a shot I expect.
I think trump will can it in a year or so anyway, there is no need for NATO anymore
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
I've said for years we should pull the plug on NATO (or at least out involvement in it) and spend the money on the NHS.
If we pull out Donald will be off like a shot I expect.
Vladimir Putin is rubbing his hands with glee at this kind of stuff. Exactly when he's been aiming to achieve for the six or seven years.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
I've said for years we should pull the plug on NATO (or at least out involvement in it) and spend the money on the NHS...
I am constantly aghast at the number of Leavers who seem determined, step by step, to declare war on Europe.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
I've said for years we should pull the plug on NATO (or at least out involvement in it) and spend the money on the NHS.
If we pull out Donald will be off like a shot I expect.
I think trump will can it in a year or so anyway, there is no need for NATO anymore
Nah, just an expansionist and aggressive Russian state that is engaged in hybrid warfare against democracy itself, chopping up bits of Eastern Europe and funding fascist parties in Western Europe. And when we've finished weakening ourselves, then what? Something good I presume?
I'm no fan of Boris, but the protestors were making a hell of a racket today, and far louder than anything I've heard from Downing Street. Maybe he should have done the press conference, but it was not a good location if you actually wanted to hear what he had to say.
Boris could do with listening a bit more and talking a bit less.
He could, but that doesn't change the fact that he was expected to speak from a podium that couldn't have been more than 20 metres from protestors, some of who seemed to have megaphones. It was very noisy, and he would have been drowned out.
I’m sure the Luxembourg PM would have asked the crowd to calm down . If they didn’t and it wasn’t possible to continue then fine walk off.
They were hardly scary , did Bozo expect a riot !
No, he rightly expected a press conference that wasn't a set-up to be shouted down.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
I've said for years we should pull the plug on NATO (or at least out involvement in it) and spend the money on the NHS.
If we pull out Donald will be off like a shot I expect.
I think trump will can it in a year or so anyway, there is no need for NATO anymore
Putin would enthusiastically agree with you on that.
It's an odd fact that posters who support Leave invariably also support Trump. Johnson is also a bit of a mystery but I suppose he did lead their campaign. These are posters who I suspect wouldn't have touched either of them with a barge poll four years ago. Some of them PB's finest.
Unfortunately, I think this article is probably on the money: many Europeans just want rid of us now. It certainly chimes with what I get from interacting with EU-national friends and colleagues, who increasingly view us as a joke, ruled by an incompetent elite with delusions of grandeur and no real sense of our diminished status in the world.
What Brexiteers tend to misunderstand is that many educated Continental Europeans are gut Anglophiles. Their anger at Brexit is magnified by a sense of disillusionment that a country they had loved and respected has turned out to be such a ludicrous basket-case.
There will be no easy way back from this - my children's children will most likely still be dealing with the aftermath of the Brexit disaster that the Tory party has wrought.
You are correct in how they have viewed the last few years, but what you fail to appreciate is that it is BOTH sides causing this omnishambles. Yes, Boris and his chums are a joke. But so are the couple hundred Remainer MPs that voted to leave the EU and then voted against the deal to leave THREE TIMES. Then act surprised when it is a big possibility we might leave without a deal. What the hell did they expect would happen from their game playing?
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
I've said for years we should pull the plug on NATO (or at least out involvement in it) and spend the money on the NHS.
If we pull out Donald will be off like a shot I expect.
Vladimir Putin is rubbing his hands with glee at this kind of stuff. Exactly when he's been aiming to achieve for the six or seven years.
Yes, but given how we’re being treated it’s fair to ask why we should care. Russia poses no direct threat, and issues like access to oil are diminishing in importance. At the same time the EU is being unpleasant.
Far from the Remainer caricature of being nostalgic for empire, most Leavers would be content to disengage from global politics and leave Europe to it. We can sit back and focus on ourselves.
Basically, we’ve done our bit for the world. Let someone else have a go.
I'm no fan of Boris, but the protestors were making a hell of a racket today, and far louder than anything I've heard from Downing Street. Maybe he should have done the press conference, but it was not a good location if you actually wanted to hear what he had to say.
Boris could do with listening a bit more and talking a bit less.
He could, but that doesn't change the fact that he was expected to speak from a podium that couldn't have been more than 20 metres from protestors, some of who seemed to have megaphones. It was very noisy, and he would have been drowned out.
I’m sure the Luxembourg PM would have asked the crowd to calm down . If they didn’t and it wasn’t possible to continue then fine walk off.
They were hardly scary , did Bozo expect a riot !
No, he rightly expected a press conference that wasn't a set-up to be shouted down.
Fuck off, Luxembourg.
You turn up switch microphone and pretend it’s a hardware issue - you don’t fail to turn up
Unfortunately, I think this article is probably on the money: many Europeans just want rid of us now. It certainly chimes with what I get from interacting with EU-national friends and colleagues, who increasingly view us as a joke, ruled by an incompetent elite with delusions of grandeur and no real sense of our diminished status in the world.
What Brexiteers tend to misunderstand is that many educated Continental Europeans are gut Anglophiles. Their anger at Brexit is magnified by a sense of disillusionment that a country they had loved and respected has turned out to be such a ludicrous basket-case.
There will be no easy way back from this - my children's children will most likely still be dealing with the aftermath of the Brexit disaster that the Tory party has wrought.
Yes, quite possibly. Which is why I keep saying Leavers and Remainers should unite around a moderate Leave that respects the result and allows for a constructive relationship with our European neighbours.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
No no, the narrative has to fit the 1930s. "Britain alone".
This is the endgame for the Brexiteers. It's all the fascist bully boy EU's fault.
I'm no fan of Boris, but the protestors were making a hell of a racket today, and far louder than anything I've heard from Downing Street. Maybe he should have done the press conference, but it was not a good location if you actually wanted to hear what he had to say.
Boris could do with listening a bit more and talking a bit less.
He could, but that doesn't change the fact that he was expected to speak from a podium that couldn't have been more than 20 metres from protestors, some of who seemed to have megaphones. It was very noisy, and he would have been drowned out.
I posted this earlier, and somebody else added a Thatcher example to emphasise the point. Past prime ministers were expected to deal with loud hecklers, and frequently had things thrown at them whilst doing so. The scenario you outline, whilst unpleasant, would have been something that a PM was expected to encounter and overcome, not run from. I often criticise PB for having no memory, but it seems the problem is more widespread than I thought.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
I've said for years we should pull the plug on NATO (or at least out involvement in it) and spend the money on the NHS...
I am constantly aghast at the number of Leavers who seem determined, step by step, to declare war on Europe.
Declare war?
Because we decide to end our involvement in in an organization that was set up in the Cold War and is still going strong 30 years after the Cold War ended?
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
I've said for years we should pull the plug on NATO (or at least out involvement in it) and spend the money on the NHS.
If we pull out Donald will be off like a shot I expect.
Vladimir Putin is rubbing his hands with glee at this kind of stuff. Exactly when he's been aiming to achieve for the six or seven years.
Yes, but given how we’re being treated it’s fair to ask why we should care. Russia poses no direct threat, and issues like access to oil are diminishing in importance. At the same time the EU is being unpleasant.
Far from the Remainer caricature of being nostalgic for empire, most Leavers would be content to disengage from global politics and leave Europe to it. We can sit back and focus on ourselves.
Basically, we’ve done our bit for the world. Let someone else have a go.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
Yes, but given how we’re being treated it’s fair to ask why we should care. Russia poses no direct threat, and issues like access to oil are diminishing in importance. At the same time the EU is being unpleasant.
Far from the Remainer caricature of being nostalgic for empire, most Leavers would be content to disengage from global politics and leave Europe to it. We can sit back and focus on ourselves.
Basically, we’ve done our bit for the world. Let someone else have a go.
We might not be interested in Russia, but they are interested in us. And not in a good way. We only have two choices: roll over or resist. For those of us who think resisting is the smarter choice, we will do it better together. And yeah, they pose a direct and serious threat to us. And they will do so long as Putin is in charge there.
Unfortunately, I think this article is probably on the money: many Europeans just want rid of us now. It certainly chimes with what I get from interacting with EU-national friends and colleagues, who increasingly view us as a joke, ruled by an incompetent elite with delusions of grandeur and no real sense of our diminished status in the world.
What Brexiteers tend to misunderstand is that many educated Continental Europeans are gut Anglophiles. Their anger at Brexit is magnified by a sense of disillusionment that a country they had loved and respected has turned out to be such a ludicrous basket-case.
There will be no easy way back from this - my children's children will most likely still be dealing with the aftermath of the Brexit disaster that the Tory party has wrought.
Yes, quite possibly. Which is why I keep saying Leavers and Remainers should unite around a moderate Leave that respects the result and allows for a constructive relationship with our European neighbours.
It's the only way out.
So how do you get there from here
Find a compromise with the EU on NI. In the EU regulations for some things and UK regulations for others. Some checks around the land border, some in the Irish sea, but done in a way that is not visible where possible. Restore Stormont and hold a NI referendum on the Backstop Mk 2, with the right to leave if they do so with another referendum. Otherwise pass the WA in full.
The idea that the EU is now desperate for us to leave makes a lot of sense, and yet the EU has spent three years trying to reverse the Leave vote, working secretly with ultra-Remainers like Blair. Even now, they would love to have the 1st referendum overruled by a 2nd, as is traditional in the EU
The Luxembourg PM tried this tactic again, today. In his own words:
"And Mr Johnson said there won’t be a second referendum, because I asked him: wouldn’t that be a solution to get out of the situation?”"
The EU is almost as divided, confused and roiled by Brexit, as us.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
I've said for years we should pull the plug on NATO (or at least out involvement in it) and spend the money on the NHS.
If we pull out Donald will be off like a shot I expect.
Vladimir Putin is rubbing his hands with glee at this kind of stuff. Exactly when he's been aiming to achieve for the six or seven years.
Yes, but given how we’re being treated it’s fair to ask why we should care. Russia poses no direct threat, and issues like access to oil are diminishing in importance. At the same time the EU is being unpleasant.
Far from the Remainer caricature of being nostalgic for empire, most Leavers would be content to disengage from global politics and leave Europe to it. We can sit back and focus on ourselves.
Basically, we’ve done our bit for the world. Let someone else have a go.
I appreciate your honesty, but Christ on a bike. What do we do - reinvent ourselves as Japan circa early 1800s? And I guess we fix climate change *here* and let the rest of the world burn?
I think I prefer the Little Englander nostalgia theory...
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
No no, the narrative has to fit the 1930s. "Britain alone".
This is the endgame for the Brexiteers. It's all the fascist bully boy EU's fault.
The EU is not fascist. Evidence for this includes the total lack of fascism, which ought to be enough, but if you need more have a look at the stance that REAL fascists have towards the EU: Putin, Britain First, AfD, Front National, and more. Just about the one thing that unites them is their hatred of the EU. This ought to tell you something important.
Not quite the slant I would have expected from the Borisgraph. Yes, it makes the continental rotters sound a bit rude and ungracious, but it also portrays Boris as the hapless victim. I suspect the readership would have expected Boris to confront those namby-pamby protesters with his granite aplomb and sabre-like wit, not scuttle off. Poor show, I bet they're thinking.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
I've said for years we should pull the plug on NATO (or at least out involvement in it) and spend the money on the NHS...
I am constantly aghast at the number of Leavers who seem determined, step by step, to declare war on Europe.
On the contrary, most of PB's Leavers would seem quite content to let ROEU get on with it. I certainly would. I am happy to compete economically with continental Europe (as with every other country), but I don't want it to be a failure, or for Britain to have undue influence over its politics. I leave it to Remainers to be obsessed with 'influence' and telling other countries what to do.
I'm no fan of Boris, but the protestors were making a hell of a racket today, and far louder than anything I've heard from Downing Street. Maybe he should have done the press conference, but it was not a good location if you actually wanted to hear what he had to say.
Boris could do with listening a bit more and talking a bit less.
He could, but that doesn't change the fact that he was expected to speak from a podium that couldn't have been more than 20 metres from protestors, some of who seemed to have megaphones. It was very noisy, and he would have been drowned out.
I’m sure the Luxembourg PM would have asked the crowd to calm down . If they didn’t and it wasn’t possible to continue then fine walk off.
They were hardly scary , did Bozo expect a riot !
No, he rightly expected a press conference that wasn't a set-up to be shouted down.
Fuck off, Luxembourg.
The point is not that it was unexpected, it's that he ran away.
Previous PMs would not have run away, and at least two, possibly three (Wilson, Thatcher, possibly Major) would have been energised by the encounter. In one of my diatribes against Boris before May's resignation I pointed out that the Darius Guppy conversation showed that he was a physical coward: when faced with a frightening situation he grins inanely, does not engage, and runs away. I don't bang on about it (much) because I occasionally want to tal about other things but tonight's encounter just emphasised the point: the man in whom you have placed such store is unworthy.
I suspect the readership would have expected Boris to confront those namby-pamby protesters with his granite aplomb and sabre-like wit, not scuttle off.
If they didn't expect him to scuttle off, they haven't been paying attention...
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
No no, the narrative has to fit the 1930s. "Britain alone".
This is the endgame for the Brexiteers. It's all the fascist bully boy EU's fault.
The EU is not fascist. Evidence for this includes the total lack of fascism, which ought to be enough, but if you need more have a look at the stance that REAL fascists have towards the EU: Putin, Britain First, AfD, Front National, and more. Just about the one thing that unites them is their hatred of the EU. This ought to tell you something important.
I've just reread your message and realised you were subquoting rather than saying that yourself. Apologies for misreading that. I stand by what I said but it shouldn't have been focused at you.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
A total failure to understand England. We are different from them, for good or bad. Hence Brexit.
I posted this earlier, and somebody else added a Thatcher example to emphasise the point. Past prime ministers were expected to deal with loud hecklers, and frequently had things thrown at them whilst doing so. The scenario you outline, whilst unpleasant, would have been something that a PM was expected to encounter and overcome, not run from. I often criticise PB for having no memory, but it seems the problem is more widespread than I thought.
Boris would have struggled to be heard. I saw it at just after 3pm and was surprised by how close the protestors were, and by the amount of noise they made. It wasn't like what you sometimes get from Downing Street.
You might get such treatment when campaigning in the streets, but to expect to take questions from the press when people are trying to drown you out is a bit much.
It really was a no-win situation for Boris. He looks bad for not being there, and would have looked bad being drowned out and abused.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
No no, the narrative has to fit the 1930s. "Britain alone".
This is the endgame for the Brexiteers. It's all the fascist bully boy EU's fault.
The EU is not fascist. Evidence for this includes the total lack of fascism, which ought to be enough, but if you need more have a look at the stance that REAL fascists have towards the EU: Putin, Britain First, AfD, Front National, and more. Just about the one thing that unites them is their hatred of the EU. This ought to tell you something important.
Quite. But you and me are talking like grown-ups who seek some sort of objective truth, and maybe logic to resolve this.
The more extreme elements of British nationalism, however, have ramped up pumping out propaganda which represents the EU as the greater German Reich circa 1942. Hopefully you haven't been exposed to any of this shite, but I have...and my profession does afford me some insight into the power of stories, myth and propaganda.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
A total failure to understand England. We are different from them, for good or bad. Hence Brexit.
I've got news for you. England isn't the only country that's different. They are all different from each other. Then again, Londoners are different from Lincolnshites too. Not sure where this gets us.
It makes me quite proud to be British to know that no British PM would go ahead with that press conference, let alone gesture to the empty podium like a third rate comedian.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
A total failure to understand England. We are different from them, for good or bad. Hence Brexit.
I've got news for you. England isn't the only country that's different. They are all different from each other.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
I've said for years we should pull the plug on NATO (or at least out involvement in it) and spend the money on the NHS...
I am constantly aghast at the number of Leavers who seem determined, step by step, to declare war on Europe.
Declare war?
Because we decide to end our involvement in in an organization that was set up in the Cold War and is still going strong 30 years after the Cold War ended?
@Paul_Bedfordshire , once of this parish, actively thought so. Many Leavers seek to leave NATO. Every time Russian insurgents wage undeclared war in the near abroad, the EU is blamed. On YouTube, the amount of videos putting the UK against the EU militarily is growing. We are beginning to rehearse in our head the fantasy of warfare and taking the first steps along that path.
However I am glad to know that you think it's implausible. I hope you are right.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
A total failure to understand England. We are different from them, for good or bad. Hence Brexit.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
A total failure to understand England. We are different from them, for good or bad. Hence Brexit.
I'm no fan of Boris, but the protestors were making a hell of a racket today, and far louder than anything I've heard from Downing Street. Maybe he should have done the press conference, but it was not a good location if you actually wanted to hear what he had to say.
Boris could do with listening a bit more and talking a bit less.
He could, but that doesn't change the fact that he was expected to speak from a podium that couldn't have been more than 20 metres from protestors, some of who seemed to have megaphones. It was very noisy, and he would have been drowned out.
I’m sure the Luxembourg PM would have asked the crowd to calm down . If they didn’t and it wasn’t possible to continue then fine walk off.
They were hardly scary , did Bozo expect a riot !
No, he rightly expected a press conference that wasn't a set-up to be shouted down.
Fuck off, Luxembourg.
The point is not that it was unexpected, it's that he ran away.
Previous PMs would not have run away, and at least two, possibly three (Wilson, Thatcher, possibly Major) would have been energised by the encounter. In one of my diatribes against Boris before May's resignation I pointed out that the Darius Guppy conversation showed that he was a physical coward: when faced with a frightening situation he grins inanely, does not engage, and runs away. I don't bang on about it (much) because I occasionally want to tal about other things but tonight's encounter just emphasised the point: the man in whom you have placed such store is unworthy.
Boris standing at that podium had no good outcome.
None.
As was intended.
The Luxembourg PM was pissed because he had failed to have his photo-op of embarrassing Boris.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
A total failure to understand England. We are different from them, for good or bad. Hence Brexit.
I've got news for you. England isn't the only country that's different. They are all different from each other. Then again, Londoners are different from Lincolnshites too. Not sure where this gets us.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
No no, the narrative has to fit the 1930s. "Britain alone".
This is the endgame for the Brexiteers. It's all the fascist bully boy EU's fault.
The EU is not fascist. Evidence for this includes the total lack of fascism, which ought to be enough, but if you need more have a look at the stance that REAL fascists have towards the EU: Putin, Britain First, AfD, Front National, and more. Just about the one thing that unites them is their hatred of the EU. This ought to tell you something important.
I've just reread your message and realised you were subquoting rather than saying that yourself. Apologies for misreading that. I stand by what I said but it shouldn't have been focused at you.
No worries. I didn't take it that way anyway. And I shouldn't post tired, exasperated, posts because to be honest, it's not helping the situation.
Brexit increasingly looks like a religion on both sides. Impervious to logic, a matter of faith, and increasingly in the hands of zealots who chastise anyone who isn't a true 'believer'. God knows how we solve this. But sleep might be a good first start...
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
A total failure to understand England. We are different from them, for good or bad. Hence Brexit.
Who is we?
We, the English. The Exceptional Nation.
You think we are ‘exceptional’ but we are not. We are just like all the rest.
I'm no fan of Boris, but the protestors were making a hell of a racket today, and far louder than anything I've heard from Downing Street. Maybe he should have done the press conference, but it was not a good location if you actually wanted to hear what he had to say.
Boris could do with listening a bit more and talking a bit less.
He could, but that doesn't change the fact that he was expected to speak from a podium that couldn't have been more than 20 metres from protestors, some of who seemed to have megaphones. It was very noisy, and he would have been drowned out.
I’m sure the Luxembourg PM would have asked the crowd to calm down . If they didn’t and it wasn’t possible to continue then fine walk off.
They were hardly scary , did Bozo expect a riot !
No, he rightly expected a press conference that wasn't a set-up to be shouted down.
Fuck off, Luxembourg.
The point is not that it was unexpected, it's that he ran away.
Previous PMs would not have run away, and at least two, possibly three (Wilson, Thatcher, possibly Major) would have been energised by the encounter. In one of my diatribes against Boris before May's resignation I pointed out that the Darius Guppy conversation showed that he was a physical coward: when faced with a frightening situation he grins inanely, does not engage, and runs away. I don't bang on about it (much) because I occasionally want to tal about other things but tonight's encounter just emphasised the point: the man in whom you have placed such store is unworthy.
Boris standing at that podium had no good outcome.
None.
As was intended.
The Luxembourg PM was pissed because he had failed to have his photo-op of embarrassing Boris.
I suspect the readership would have expected Boris to confront those namby-pamby protesters with his granite aplomb and sabre-like wit, not scuttle off.
If they didn't expect him to scuttle off, they haven't been paying attention...
Yes, but The Telegraph has been feeding its readership the following narrative: that in Boris we finally have a doughty bulldog character with the brilliance and courage to give those scheming eurocrats and insufferable Remainers what for. Perhaps Boris was justified in ducking out, but it wasn't the barn-storming belligerence many crave.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
A total failure to understand England. We are different from them, for good or bad. Hence Brexit.
Who is we?
We, the English. The Exceptional Nation.
You think we are ‘exceptional’ but we are not. We are just like all the rest.
We are quite literally not like any nation. The world speaks English, the language of the English people. This is exceptional. Literally.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
A total failure to understand England. We are different from them, for good or bad. Hence Brexit.
Who is we?
I believe Byronic is perfectly entitled to use the term "we"...
Quite. But you and me are talking like grown-ups who seek some sort of objective truth, and maybe logic to resolve this.
The more extreme elements of British nationalism, however, have ramped up pumping out propaganda which represents the EU as the greater German Reich circa 1942. Hopefully you haven't been exposed to any of this shite, but I have...and my profession does afford me some insight into the power of stories, myth and propaganda.
Yeah, I've seen plenty of it. But then again, I've been told that the reasons for leaving the EU include - it's a fascist conspiracy - it's a communist conspiracy - it's a liberal conspiracy - it's a conservative conspiracy I've seen every accusation under the sun, all of these "commentators" proves unable to provide even the sketchiest mapping from EU structures and practices to the above ideologies. It's the product of a sophisticated segmentation social media campaign that has targetted, say, socialists with the message of the EU's conservatism, conservatives with the message of the EU's socialism, and so on.
Incidentally, this is why we are where we are. 52% of people voted for something with whole swathes of them lacking the faintest overlap for the reasons why. Any wonder that not even Leavers can come to a consensus on a settled destination? It's always been a coalition of the impossible. And when this is finished, it's utterly guaranteed that even most leavers will be utterly miserable about the outcome. Even if we've left. You watch.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
A total failure to understand England. We are different from them, for good or bad. Hence Brexit.
Who is we?
We, the English. The Exceptional Nation.
You think we are ‘exceptional’ but we are not. We are just like all the rest.
We are quite literally not like any nation. The world speaks English, the language of the English people. This is exceptional. Literally.
For now. The world used to speak French. Maybe in the future it will speak Mandarin.
Nothing good has ever come out of a superiority complex.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
A total failure to understand England. We are different from them, for good or bad. Hence Brexit.
It's an odd fact that posters who support Leave invariably also support Trump. Johnson is also a bit of a mystery but I suppose he did lead their campaign. These are posters who I suspect wouldn't have touched either of them with a barge poll four years ago. Some of them PB's finest.
Turns out frequent posts starting with 'I'm no fan of Johnson/Trump/Farage, but' are symptomatic of a psychological condition which leads to them being supine fanbois of said tossers.
Can anyone get rid of Boris? Above all leavers need to get shot. He’s a liability. All talk.
Politics is talking. What do you want him to do, break dancing?
The politics of the EU is to shout down disagreement.
Just look at that twat with the megaphone outside parliament every single day.
No interest in debate.
Considering your post started with a ridiculously hyperbolic statement with no basis in fact, its quite cheeky to accuse others of having no interest in reasoned debate.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
A total failure to understand England. We are different from them, for good or bad. Hence Brexit.
I've got news for you. England isn't the only country that's different. They are all different from each other. Then again, Londoners are different from Lincolnshites too. Not sure where this gets us.
"Lincolnshites." Look at yourself. Twat.
It's just a friendly contraction of Lincolnshirites, which is clumsy to say. Would you prefer Lincolnshi'ites?
We are trying to do the impossible. Leave the EU. The spectacle will always be comical, because Leaving the EU is meant to be horribly, comically painful. It was designed that way. The EU made it that way. Barnier told us he would do this to us: make it so bad we want to stay. And he is as good as his word.
But we will still Leave. And then things will change.
It's an odd fact that posters who support Leave invariably also support Trump. Johnson is also a bit of a mystery but I suppose he did lead their campaign. These are posters who I suspect wouldn't have touched either of them with a barge poll four years ago. Some of them PB's finest.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
A total failure to understand England. We are different from them, for good or bad. Hence Brexit.
William isn't trying to understand England. His pontificating on the supposed disolution of the UK goes no further than his adoration for the EU, and if (as it has in the past) it looked a better bet for the EU that the UK stayed intact, he'd become as unionist as Arlene Phillips wearing a pair of Iain Paisley (snr)'s union jack underpants.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
A total failure to understand England. We are different from them, for good or bad. Hence Brexit.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
“The Europeans” apparently being a catch-all term that includes UK Remainers. You are simply destroying the UK, not the Western alliance.
Another imperialist remainer. I’m English. It’s up to the Scots whether they want to be in a Union with us. I’d like them to stay but it’s up to them. Why have an unhappy Union?
I’m English too, and England is a European country. Once we’ve shed the imperial baggage of the UK state, that will become the consensus view.
A total failure to understand England. We are different from them, for good or bad. Hence Brexit.
I've got news for you. England isn't the only country that's different. They are all different from each other. Then again, Londoners are different from Lincolnshites too. Not sure where this gets us.
"Lincolnshites." Look at yourself. Twat.
It's just a friendly contraction of Lincolnshirites, which is clumsy to say. Would you prefer Lincolnshi'ites?
You're an obnoxious little turd, that refuses to be flushed away. But I guess every sewage system must have room for specimens like you, so, hey, float on.
I'm no fan of Boris, but the protestors were making a hell of a racket today, and far louder than anything I've heard from Downing Street. Maybe he should have done the press conference, but it was not a good location if you actually wanted to hear what he had to say.
Boris could do with listening a bit more and talking a bit less.
He could, but that doesn't change the fact that he was expected to speak from a podium that couldn't have been more than 20 metres from protestors, some of who seemed to have megaphones. It was very noisy, and he would have been drowned out.
I’m sure the Luxembourg PM would have asked the crowd to calm down . If they didn’t and it wasn’t possible to continue then fine walk off.
They were hardly scary , did Bozo expect a riot !
No, he rightly expected a press conference that wasn't a set-up to be shouted down.
Fuck off, Luxembourg.
The point is not that it was unexpected, it's that he ran away.
Previous PMs would not have run away, and at least two, possibly three (Wilson, Thatcher, possibly Major) would have been energised by the encounter. In one of my diatribes against Boris before May's resignation I pointed out that the Darius Guppy conversation showed that he was a physical coward: when faced with a frightening situation he grins inanely, does not engage, and runs away. I don't bang on about it (much) because I occasionally want to tal about other things but tonight's encounter just emphasised the point: the man in whom you have placed such store is unworthy.
Boris standing at that podium had no good outcome.
None.
As was intended.
The Luxembourg PM was pissed because he had failed to have his photo-op of embarrassing Boris.
I see BJ as he comes across. Not up to the job! He is as bad as Gordon Brown. No new ideas. Incompetent and unable to communicate anything but 31st October 2019. PMs need to leave escape strategies if a path becomes blocked. He has chosen to shut out any options. He is the master of nothing and without direction. Pathetic.
We are trying to do the impossible. Leave the EU. The spectacle will always be comical, because Leaving the EU is meant to be horribly, comically painful. It was designed that way. The EU made it that way. Barnier told us he would do this to us: make it so bad we want to stay. And he is as good as his word.
But we will still Leave. And then things will change for the worse.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
I've said for years we should pull the plug on NATO (or at least out involvement in it) and spend the money on the NHS...
I am constantly aghast at the number of Leavers who seem determined, step by step, to declare war on Europe.
Declare war?
Because we decide to end our involvement in in an organization that was set up in the Cold War and is still going strong 30 years after the Cold War ended?
@Paul_Bedfordshire , once of this parish, actively thought so. Many Leavers seek to leave NATO. Every time Russian insurgents wage undeclared war in the near abroad, the EU is blamed. On YouTube, the amount of videos putting the UK against the EU militarily is growing. We are beginning to rehearse in our head the fantasy of warfare and taking the first steps along that path.
However I am glad to know that you think it's implausible. I hope you are right.
I really can't see any plausible reason why we would want to wage war with Europe.
But then my instinct is to end all of our military entanglements as far as possible.
Stop all of the sily non-wars with USA, stop our involvement with NATO. Scrap Trident etc.
So far so Corbyn.
But where I'd differ from Corbyn is that I'd also want to fund a decent army/navy that can protect this country and it's interests (it's interesting that we fund NATO but if Argentina invaded the Falklands again I'm not sure we'd have the capacity to defend those Islands now) and massively increase our spending on fighting state-sponsered cyber crime.
It seems to me the real danger is not from Putin rolling tanks into Berlin but from Russian hackers taking over and shutting down the national grid, for example.
One of the smallest EU country told Johnson to F.O.
And people want to stay in this club?
Quite. F##k ‘em. The EU and it’s Remain chums don’t know what feelings they are stirring. The chance of compromise is slipping away. I can’t be the only one now wondering why we bother to help the US underwrite NATO. The Europeans apparently don’t want to be allies.
We’ll have left the EU by 2030, but doing so didn’t have to to crack the Western alliance. I now fear it will.
I've said for years we should pull the plug on NATO (or at least out involvement in it) and spend the money on the NHS.
If we pull out Donald will be off like a shot I expect.
Vladimir Putin is rubbing his hands with glee at this kind of stuff. Exactly when he's been aiming to achieve for the six or seven years.
Yes, but given how we’re being treated it’s fair to ask why we should care. Russia poses no direct threat, and issues like access to oil are diminishing in importance. At the same time the EU is being unpleasant.
Far from the Remainer caricature of being nostalgic for empire, most Leavers would be content to disengage from global politics and leave Europe to it. We can sit back and focus on ourselves.
Basically, we’ve done our bit for the world. Let someone else have a go.
I appreciate your honesty, but Christ on a bike. What do we do - reinvent ourselves as Japan circa early 1800s? And I guess we fix climate change *here* and let the rest of the world burn?
I think I prefer the Little Englander nostalgia theory...
Honestly, you just don’t get it do you? It’s not either/or. It’s possible to step back from trying to run the world, but engage where consensus is needed on stuff like climate change.
The U.K. (or England/Wales if Scotland and NI don’t fancy it) doesn’t need to be part of some “mega-block”.
Do you know I’m starting to realise I have far more in common with Scots Nats than posh English remainers. The latter so often seem to be the ones that talk about things like not “allowing” the Scots a referendum.
Comments
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/sep/16/rnli-donations-surge-tory-criticism-work-overseas-lifeboat-charity
Nah, they'd fold and support Boris's plan.
But either way, Boris wins.
I'm sure a majority of Leavers hold to that maxim too.
I hope not because the very thought of such “food” makes me feel quite nauseous.
May's deal was the original hard brexit. They should have gone straight to SM&CU and people like me would have been on board. That was the compromise that would have satisfied enough of both the 52% and the 48%.
But the government torched the middle ground, so fuck em. I'm voting for revoke or rejoin, depending on the state of things at the next election.
You might be shocked to hear what some Irish, Greeks and Italians have to say about the EU.
The Irish that spoke to me about it loathed the way the EU had treated Ireland.
Yet on this thread we are told the EU would never chuck them under the bus - they have already.
If we pull out Donald will be off like a shot I expect.
They were hardly scary , did Bozo expect a riot !
Fuck off, Luxembourg.
Far from the Remainer caricature of being nostalgic for empire, most Leavers would be content to disengage from global politics and leave Europe to it. We can sit back and focus on ourselves.
Basically, we’ve done our bit for the world. Let someone else have a go.
So how do you get there from here
This is the endgame for the Brexiteers. It's all the fascist bully boy EU's fault.
Because we decide to end our involvement in in an organization that was set up in the Cold War and is still going strong 30 years after the Cold War ended?
And yeah, they pose a direct and serious threat to us. And they will do so long as Putin is in charge there.
The idea that the EU is now desperate for us to leave makes a lot of sense, and yet the EU has spent three years trying to reverse the Leave vote, working secretly with ultra-Remainers like Blair. Even now, they would love to have the 1st referendum overruled by a 2nd, as is traditional in the EU
The Luxembourg PM tried this tactic again, today. In his own words:
"And Mr Johnson said there won’t be a second referendum, because I asked him: wouldn’t that be a solution to get out of the situation?”"
The EU is almost as divided, confused and roiled by Brexit, as us.
I think I prefer the Little Englander nostalgia theory...
Evidence for this includes the total lack of fascism, which ought to be enough, but if you need more have a look at the stance that REAL fascists have towards the EU: Putin, Britain First, AfD, Front National, and more. Just about the one thing that unites them is their hatred of the EU. This ought to tell you something important.
Previous PMs would not have run away, and at least two, possibly three (Wilson, Thatcher, possibly Major) would have been energised by the encounter. In one of my diatribes against Boris before May's resignation I pointed out that the Darius Guppy conversation showed that he was a physical coward: when faced with a frightening situation he grins inanely, does not engage, and runs away. I don't bang on about it (much) because I occasionally want to tal about other things but tonight's encounter just emphasised the point: the man in whom you have placed such store is unworthy.
You might get such treatment when campaigning in the streets, but to expect to take questions from the press when people are trying to drown you out is a bit much.
It really was a no-win situation for Boris. He looks bad for not being there, and would have looked bad being drowned out and abused.
Personally, I think it reflects badly on Bettel.
Mind you, the papers seem to be chalking it up as another Boris fiasco.
The more extreme elements of British nationalism, however, have ramped up pumping out propaganda which represents the EU as the greater German Reich circa 1942. Hopefully you haven't been exposed to any of this shite, but I have...and my profession does afford me some insight into the power of stories, myth and propaganda.
Then again, Londoners are different from Lincolnshites too. Not sure where this gets us.
https://twitter.com/STVNews/status/1173653923707547648
However I am glad to know that you think it's implausible. I hope you are right.
None.
As was intended.
The Luxembourg PM was pissed because he had failed to have his photo-op of embarrassing Boris.
Brexit increasingly looks like a religion on both sides. Impervious to logic, a matter of faith, and increasingly in the hands of zealots who chastise anyone who isn't a true 'believer'. God knows how we solve this. But sleep might be a good first start...
It's clearly code for "these exasperating ****ers who I'll personally ensure need a visa to set foot in Dover after November 1st"
But then again, I've been told that the reasons for leaving the EU include
- it's a fascist conspiracy
- it's a communist conspiracy
- it's a liberal conspiracy
- it's a conservative conspiracy
I've seen every accusation under the sun, all of these "commentators" proves unable to provide even the sketchiest mapping from EU structures and practices to the above ideologies.
It's the product of a sophisticated segmentation social media campaign that has targetted, say, socialists with the message of the EU's conservatism, conservatives with the message of the EU's socialism, and so on.
Incidentally, this is why we are where we are. 52% of people voted for something with whole swathes of them lacking the faintest overlap for the reasons why. Any wonder that not even Leavers can come to a consensus on a settled destination? It's always been a coalition of the impossible. And when this is finished, it's utterly guaranteed that even most leavers will be utterly miserable about the outcome. Even if we've left. You watch.
Nothing good has ever come out of a superiority complex.
Pathetic really.
Just look at that twat with the megaphone outside parliament every single day.
No interest in debate.
LK tries hard but fails to hide her total exasperation with Boris's endless "it's all going to turn out just fine" shtick.
Boris looks like a man totally out of his depth - unbridled ambition has run into the concrete wall of reality.
We are trying to do the impossible. Leave the EU. The spectacle will always be comical, because Leaving the EU is meant to be horribly, comically painful. It was designed that way. The EU made it that way. Barnier told us he would do this to us: make it so bad we want to stay. And he is as good as his word.
But we will still Leave. And then things will change.
But then my instinct is to end all of our military entanglements as far as possible.
Stop all of the sily non-wars with USA, stop our involvement with NATO. Scrap Trident etc.
So far so Corbyn.
But where I'd differ from Corbyn is that I'd also want to fund a decent army/navy that can protect this country and it's interests (it's interesting that we fund NATO but if Argentina invaded the Falklands again I'm not sure we'd have the capacity to defend those Islands now) and massively increase our spending on fighting state-sponsered cyber crime.
It seems to me the real danger is not from Putin rolling tanks into Berlin but from Russian hackers taking over and shutting down the national grid, for example.
The U.K. (or England/Wales if Scotland and NI don’t fancy it) doesn’t need to be part of some “mega-block”.
Do you know I’m starting to realise I have far more in common with Scots Nats than posh English remainers. The latter so often seem to be the ones that talk about things like not “allowing” the Scots a referendum.