Is there any conceivable point to the government holding a further FTPA GE vote tonight?
To show opposition hypocrisy and harden public opinion against them?
Boris wants to vote a second time on a GE, now MPs have a little more information. Boris doesn't want the public to vote a second time on Brexit, despite them having a lot more information.
Dear Santa Please may I have no seats north of the Wash Regards Labour
Apart tons of seats in Greater Manchester, Greater Liverpool and Greater Newcastle. And in Leeds, and Sheffield and... quite a few really.
Well obviously, I'm being hyperbolic but given that 23% or so of labour supporters (on polling) are leavers and most of those in the north it would be 'brave'
Would it swing many seats though?
Losing up to a quarter of their support? Yeah. Lol
Yes I believe that is the Twitter account of TSEs favourite political strategist!
No, Lucy Powell is my favourite political strategist, she convinced Ed Miliband that in England & Wales who voted Labour in 2010 would vote Labour in 2015 plus at least 50% of Lib Dems would switch to Labour.
More importantly for PBers tim based his 2015 betting strategy on that basis.
I still remember him claiming that 9/2 on a Conservative hold in Elmet was a bad bet.
BBC news tonight says Corbyn has rejected Labour campaigning unequivocally for Remain at the next general election, just as the LDs this evening come out for revoke
BBC news tonight says Corbyn has rejected Labour campaigning unequivocally for Remain at the next general election, just as the LDs this evening come out for revoke
Yes I believe that is the Twitter account of TSEs favourite political strategist!
No, Lucy Powell is my favourite political strategist, she convinced Ed Miliband that in England & Wales who voted Labour in 2010 would vote Labour in 2015 plus at least 50% of Lib Dems would switch to Labour.
TSE....are you still a Cameron sycophant? And if your answer is a YES....you're credibility is as fucked as recommending pineapple on a pizza....
I'm never a sycophant.
I miss Dave, I really do, I miss the good old days when a political crisis was when Dave last had a pasty.
It felt like a kick on the nuts when I was told he was going to resign, and it still does.
Cameron should have had a proper plan for the EU Ref, including a plan for negotiating a deal and a commitment for a confirmatory referendum once the deal was agreed.
He fucked up massively and will take a huge share of the blame when the history is written.
Dear Santa Please may I have no seats north of the Wash Regards Labour
Apart tons of seats in Greater Manchester, Greater Liverpool and Greater Newcastle. And in Leeds, and Sheffield and... quite a few really.
Well obviously, I'm being hyperbolic but given that 23% or so of labour supporters (on polling) are leavers and most of those in the north it would be 'brave'
Would it swing many seats though?
Losing up to a quarter of their support? Yeah. Lol
BBC news tonight says Corbyn has rejected Labour campaigning unequivocally for Remain at the next general election, just as the LDs this evening come out for revoke
🤷♂️
That makes sense to me. It might make sense for Labour to have no official position, just like the Conservatives did in 2016.
BBC news tonight says Corbyn has rejected Labour campaigning unequivocally for Remain at the next general election, just as the LDs this evening come out for revoke
Not sure the Lib Dems going straight for revoke is a good idea . I would support a second vote , but not really happy about a revoke unless it’s been supported by another vote .
Dear Santa Please may I have no seats north of the Wash Regards Labour
Apart tons of seats in Greater Manchester, Greater Liverpool and Greater Newcastle. And in Leeds, and Sheffield and... quite a few really.
Well obviously, I'm being hyperbolic but given that 23% or so of labour supporters (on polling) are leavers and most of those in the north it would be 'brave'
Would it swing many seats though?
Losing up to a quarter of their support? Yeah. Lol
Citation required.
Polling showing 23% of labour support are leavers and those leavers not supporting a party that wanted to revoke. Its a hypothetical, like your assertion it wouldn't affect many seats. I say it would.
BBC news tonight says Corbyn has rejected Labour campaigning unequivocally for Remain at the next general election, just as the LDs this evening come out for revoke
Not sure the Lib Dems going straight for revoke is a good idea . I would support a second vote , but not really happy about a revoke unless it’s been supported by another vote .
Tactially it makes sense for them, about 25% to 30% of voters back Revoke and that could be enough for the Liberals to overtake Labour in the popular vote for the first time in a century
BBC news tonight says Corbyn has rejected Labour campaigning unequivocally for Remain at the next general election, just as the LDs this evening come out for revoke
Not sure the Lib Dems going straight for revoke is a good idea . I would support a second vote , but not really happy about a revoke unless it’s been supported by another vote .
I'm not looking forward to the next election. This paralysis is distressing but it's better than the prospect of the opposition getting power. They are prepared to abuse parliamentary procedures to arrogate the private messages of their political enemies, even when the same enemies are advising Her Majesty's ministers in Downing St. Not properly debated, not amended, no committee stage, no Lords, no notice, no JR. One morning they are private, by teatime they are in the hands of Jeremy Corbyn. Just imagine how inventive they would be with absolute power. They won't even need Bercow. Who knows whose messages they might want to check up on next? Just the common man on the street, nobody with the resources of No. 10 or a party system behind them. Just their 'enemy'. Anyone who stands in their way.
And if one person hands over their messages and it's proven that the other party has been deleting messages... what then?
'I always delete messages straight away for storage space'
They'd better have deleted every single message ever then.
Perhaps they will have or maybe they'll say they sometimes delete to free up storage space. I have no idea. But were I being asked to provide personal info I'd make sure I deleted it. Especially if I were a minor Spad being persecuted by Dominic Grieve
And if one person hands over their messages and it's proven that the other party has been deleting messages... what then?
'I always delete messages straight away for storage space'
They'd better have deleted every single message ever then.
Perhaps they will have or maybe they'll say they sometimes delete to free up storage space. I have no idea. But were I being asked to provide personal info I'd make sure I deleted it. Especially if I were a minor Spad being persecuted by Dominic Grieve
BBC news tonight says Corbyn has rejected Labour campaigning unequivocally for Remain at the next general election, just as the LDs this evening come out for revoke
Not sure the Lib Dems going straight for revoke is a good idea . I would support a second vote , but not really happy about a revoke unless it’s been supported by another vote .
Tactially it makes sense for them, about 25% to 30% of voters back Revoke and that could be enough for them to overtake Labour in the popular vote for the first time in a century
I think it’s risky . Many people are frustrated and say things to pollsters because the debate is so polarized but Remainers given time to think will perhaps come to a similar conclusion as myself .
I hate Brexit but feel that you have to have a second vote to Remain.
Still going in the Commons. The dripping DUP disgust at the government binning off NI by bringing forward the proroguing - whilst I know that the Tories no longer need the DUP having voluntarily binned off their own MPs and their majority it's probably a good job as I don't think they are happy
Dear Santa Please may I have no seats north of the Wash Regards Labour
Apart tons of seats in Greater Manchester, Greater Liverpool and Greater Newcastle. And in Leeds, and Sheffield and... quite a few really.
Well obviously, I'm being hyperbolic but given that 23% or so of labour supporters (on polling) are leavers and most of those in the north it would be 'brave'
Would it swing many seats though?
Losing up to a quarter of their support? Yeah. Lol
Citation required.
Polling showing 23% of labour support are leavers and those leavers not supporting a party that wanted to revoke. Its a hypothetical, like your assertion it wouldn't affect many seats. I say it would.
I made no such assertion. I merely asked if you had any evidence for yours. Clearly you don’t
And if one person hands over their messages and it's proven that the other party has been deleting messages... what then?
'I always delete messages straight away for storage space'
They'd better have deleted every single message ever then.
Perhaps they will have or maybe they'll say they sometimes delete to free up storage space. I have no idea. But were I being asked to provide personal info I'd make sure I deleted it. Especially if I were a minor Spad being persecuted by Dominic Grieve
Except they are not being asked to provide personal information.
Still going in the Commons. The dripping DUP disgust at the government binning off NI by bringing forward the proroguing - whilst I know that the Tories no longer need the DUP having voluntarily binned off their own MPs and their majority it's probably a good job as I don't think they are happy
Have they actually voted on a general election yet or is that still to come?
Yes I believe that is the Twitter account of TSEs favourite political strategist!
No, Lucy Powell is my favourite political strategist, she convinced Ed Miliband that in England & Wales who voted Labour in 2010 would vote Labour in 2015 plus at least 50% of Lib Dems would switch to Labour.
More importantly for PBers tim based his 2015 betting strategy on that basis.
I still remember him claiming that 9/2 on a Conservative hold in Elmet was a bad bet.
Prime example of someone becoming a better player when they are out of the team
From his Commons speech earlier, i would not be surprised if Dominic Grieve does not already have copies of some materials.
Deleting them now won't help anyone
Anyone can spoof a screen grab - the messages are encrypted- there is no back up accessible.
The messages are encrypted in transit. Which is irrelevant
The storage on a device is encrypted, but that's meaningless in practice if you have access to the phone. And as there will be at least two and maybe dozens of recipients they had all better delete them at once.
Of course WhatsApp deleting a message isn't the same as sanitising the storage, and it doesn't mean there are no backups. Nor does it guarantee that there's no evidence a message was sent. We should note that as a rule destroying evidence is a very bad idea.
Honestly if you are going to get up to anything seriously naughty don't use any instant messaging system, be it iMessage, WhatsApp, Signal or anything else, as they all have issues.
Anyway hasn't the Cummings strategy been to provoke the HoC into blocking No Deal ?
Thus getting Boris off the No Deal hook without the Baker-Francois gang realising that Boris is against No Deal.
Possibly. But he has to keep saying he is happy for no deal when he finally does get an election, and if he wins that, does he follow through or, as hyufd thinks, throw them under the bus?
BBC news tonight says Corbyn has rejected Labour campaigning unequivocally for Remain at the next general election, just as the LDs this evening come out for revoke
Not sure the Lib Dems going straight for revoke is a good idea . I would support a second vote , but not really happy about a revoke unless it’s been supported by another vote .
Tactially it makes sense for them, about 25% to 30% of voters back Revoke and that could be enough for them to overtake Labour in the popular vote for the first time in a century
I think it’s risky . Many people are frustrated and say things to pollsters because the debate is so polarized but Remainers given time to think will perhaps come to a similar conclusion as myself .
I hate Brexit but feel that you have to have a second vote to Remain.
It isn't, the LDs have the biggest opportunity in their history to start the process of overtaking the Labour Party as the main alternative to the Tories by taking a firm anti Brexit line and Swinson will stick to it relentlessly while Corbyn dithers again
Dear Santa Please may I have no seats north of the Wash Regards Labour
Apart tons of seats in Greater Manchester, Greater Liverpool and Greater Newcastle. And in Leeds, and Sheffield and... quite a few really.
Well obviously, I'm being hyperbolic but given that 23% or so of labour supporters (on polling) are leavers and most of those in the north it would be 'brave'
Would it swing many seats though?
Losing up to a quarter of their support? Yeah. Lol
Citation required.
Polling showing 23% of labour support are leavers and those leavers not supporting a party that wanted to revoke. Its a hypothetical, like your assertion it wouldn't affect many seats. I say it would.
I made no such assertion. I merely asked if you had any evidence for yours. Clearly you don’t
The polling evidence of labour voters supporting leave is a matter of record, I dont need 'evidence' to predict that a policy directly in opposition to leaving might affect a number of northern leave seats, it's a reasonable extrapolation. You cant have 'evidence' of a future possibility, merely reasons you think it may come to be. You asked 'would it really affect many seats?' I dont think its unreasonable to assume you are asserting it wont from the tone. If you weren't and just asking because you have no opinion on it at all then my answer is I believe it would.
From his Commons speech earlier, i would not be surprised if Dominic Grieve does not already have copies of some materials.
Deleting them now won't help anyone
Anyone can spoof a screen grab - the messages are encrypted- there is no back up accessible.
The messages are encrypted in transit. Which is irrelevant
The storage on a device is encrypted, but that's meaningless in practice if you have access to the phone. And as there will be at least two and maybe dozens of recipients they had all better delete them at once.
Of course WhatsApp deleting a message isn't the same as sanitising the storage, and it doesn't mean there are no backups. Nor does it guarantee that there's no evidence a message was sent. We should note that as a rule destroying evidence is a very bad idea.
Honestly if you are going to get up to anything seriously naughty don't use any instant messaging system, be it iMessage, WhatsApp, Signal or anything else, as they all have issues.
Still going in the Commons. The dripping DUP disgust at the government binning off NI by bringing forward the proroguing - whilst I know that the Tories no longer need the DUP having voluntarily binned off their own MPs and their majority it's probably a good job as I don't think they are happy
That's their permanent state, they;'ve been using the 'just complain loudly and don't be constructive' method for ages.
How do Labour Party members get to change party policy on this? Would it not have to beat the front bench at conference? And presumably they would have to get at least one constituency party to sponsor the change?
Still going in the Commons. The dripping DUP disgust at the government binning off NI by bringing forward the proroguing - whilst I know that the Tories no longer need the DUP having voluntarily binned off their own MPs and their majority it's probably a good job as I don't think they are happy
Have they actually voted on a general election yet or is that still to come?
No, they are currently debating the Parliamentary Buildings Bill
BBC news tonight says Corbyn has rejected Labour campaigning unequivocally for Remain at the next general election, just as the LDs this evening come out for revoke
Not sure the Lib Dems going straight for revoke is a good idea . I would support a second vote , but not really happy about a revoke unless it’s been supported by another vote .
Tactially it makes sense for them, about 25% to 30% of voters back Revoke and that could be enough for them to overtake Labour in the popular vote for the first time in a century
I think it’s risky . Many people are frustrated and say things to pollsters because the debate is so polarized but Remainers given time to think will perhaps come to a similar conclusion as myself .
I hate Brexit but feel that you have to have a second vote to Remain.
It is risky but it is at least honest, and consistent with their attitude to Europe and the EU since the outset.
It would have been a bit disingenuous of them to argue for a 2nd Ref and hope they win that.
And if one person hands over their messages and it's proven that the other party has been deleting messages... what then?
'I always delete messages straight away for storage space'
They'd better have deleted every single message ever then.
Perhaps they will have or maybe they'll say they sometimes delete to free up storage space. I have no idea. But were I being asked to provide personal info I'd make sure I deleted it. Especially if I were a minor Spad being persecuted by Dominic Grieve
Except they are not being asked to provide personal information.
Their phones for example. All personal conversations etc on there. So yes, they are.
No, just a bit odd, slightly awkward, considerably (and not unjustifiably) arrogant about his talent, while being at the same time deeply insecure - and appallingly managed.
BBC news tonight says Corbyn has rejected Labour campaigning unequivocally for Remain at the next general election, just as the LDs this evening come out for revoke
Not sure the Lib Dems going straight for revoke is a good idea . I would support a second vote , but not really happy about a revoke unless it’s been supported by another vote .
Tactially it makes sense for them, about 25% to 30% of voters back Revoke and that could be enough for them to overtake Labour in the popular vote for the first time in a century
I think it’s risky . Many people are frustrated and say things to pollsters because the debate is so polarized but Remainers given time to think will perhaps come to a similar conclusion as myself .
I hate Brexit but feel that you have to have a second vote to Remain.
Likewise but OTOH if they get a majority they can argue that they have a mandate to revoke
Still going in the Commons. The dripping DUP disgust at the government binning off NI by bringing forward the proroguing - whilst I know that the Tories no longer need the DUP having voluntarily binned off their own MPs and their majority it's probably a good job as I don't think they are happy
That's their permanent state, they;'ve been using the 'just complain loudly and don't be constructive' method for ages.
And if one person hands over their messages and it's proven that the other party has been deleting messages... what then?
'I always delete messages straight away for storage space'
They'd better have deleted every single message ever then.
Perhaps they will have or maybe they'll say they sometimes delete to free up storage space. I have no idea. But were I being asked to provide personal info I'd make sure I deleted it. Especially if I were a minor Spad being persecuted by Dominic Grieve
Except they are not being asked to provide personal information.
Their phones for example. All personal conversations etc on there. So yes, they are.
And if one person hands over their messages and it's proven that the other party has been deleting messages... what then?
Key point is when it was deleted. Yesterday is totally fine. This evening is difficult.
A prudent person would have purged everything already. I used to think the tory party was full of smart people who considered such eventualities, now I'm not sure
And if one person hands over their messages and it's proven that the other party has been deleting messages... what then?
'I always delete messages straight away for storage space'
They'd better have deleted every single message ever then.
Perhaps they will have or maybe they'll say they sometimes delete to free up storage space. I have no idea. But were I being asked to provide personal info I'd make sure I deleted it. Especially if I were a minor Spad being persecuted by Dominic Grieve
Except they are not being asked to provide personal information.
Their phones for example. All personal conversations etc on there. So yes, they are.
The admin of a WhatsApp group can kick everyone out and they no longer have visibility.
Labour won't move to revoke position, its walking straight into 'proof' of the governments assertion they are trying to overturn the referendum and will of the people
Labour won't move to revoke position, its walking straight into 'proof' of the governments assertion they are trying to overturn the referendum and will of the people
I'm not sure the new LD position is a good idea, especially in the south-west.
No, just a bit odd, slightly awkward, considerably (and not unjustifiably) arrogant about his talent, while being at the same time deeply insecure - and appallingly managed.
I’ve never met a nice bit odd, slightly awkward, considerably (and not unjustifiably) arrogant, deeply insecure, appallingly managed... middle order batsmen
No, just a bit odd, slightly awkward, considerably (and not unjustifiably) arrogant about his talent, while being at the same time deeply insecure - and appallingly managed.
I’ve never met a nice bit odd, slightly awkward, considerably (and not unjustifiably) arrogant, deeply insecure, appallingly managed... middle order batsmen
And if one person hands over their messages and it's proven that the other party has been deleting messages... what then?
'I always delete messages straight away for storage space'
They'd better have deleted every single message ever then.
Perhaps they will have or maybe they'll say they sometimes delete to free up storage space. I have no idea. But were I being asked to provide personal info I'd make sure I deleted it. Especially if I were a minor Spad being persecuted by Dominic Grieve
Except they are not being asked to provide personal information.
Their phones for example. All personal conversations etc on there. So yes, they are.
The admin of a WhatsApp group can kick everyone out and they no longer have visibility.
I also felt Grieves refusal to actually say what he was accusing and who he was accusing was cowardly and disingenuous, it leaves the named individuals under no smoke without fire even if nothing transpires. Grieve showing how unpleasant he can be
Still going in the Commons. The dripping DUP disgust at the government binning off NI by bringing forward the proroguing - whilst I know that the Tories no longer need the DUP having voluntarily binned off their own MPs and their majority it's probably a good job as I don't think they are happy
That's their permanent state, they;'ve been using the 'just complain loudly and don't be constructive' method for ages.
Labour won't move to revoke position, its walking straight into 'proof' of the governments assertion they are trying to overturn the referendum and will of the people
I'm not sure the new LD position is a good idea, especially in the south-west.
They are getting overconfident. They think defections are the same as seat gains. Davey was claiming this afternoon they would be biggest party. Ludicrous fantasy.
Yes I believe that is the Twitter account of TSEs favourite political strategist!
No, Lucy Powell is my favourite political strategist, she convinced Ed Miliband that in England & Wales who voted Labour in 2010 would vote Labour in 2015 plus at least 50% of Lib Dems would switch to Labour.
TSE....are you still a Cameron sycophant? And if your answer is a YES....you're credibility is as fucked as recommending pineapple on a pizza....
I'm never a sycophant.
I miss Dave, I really do, I miss the good old days when a political crisis was when Dave last had a pasty.
It felt like a kick on the nuts when I was told he was going to resign, and it still does.
Cameron should have had a proper plan for the EU Ref, including a plan for negotiating a deal and a commitment for a confirmatory referendum once the deal was agreed.
He fucked up massively and will take a huge share of the blame when the history is written.
Also a plan not to put party before country as well when it came to the campaign.
Bercow will not be missed. Good riddance. I’d make him wait a very long time for Ermine.
I would criticise him for failing to get to grips with the culture of bullying in the House, so painfully set out in the Cox report last October.
But I have met him at an awards dinner (for women) and he was very charming and genuinely interested, bothering to take time to talk to each of us. Much nicer in the flesh in his manner than he sometimes appears in the Commons. My husband has worked with him professionally and has a good opinion of him and that is very high praise indeed since Mr Cyclefree generally thinks most MPs are a total waste of space.
So I think he is a more rounded character than the caricature often presented here, I would say, unpopular as that may make me.
From his Commons speech earlier, i would not be surprised if Dominic Grieve does not already have copies of some materials.
Deleting them now won't help anyone
Anyone can spoof a screen grab - the messages are encrypted- there is no back up accessible.
That may be true of Telegram and Signal, but your messages are forever backed up by WhatsApp. Deleting a WhatsApp conversation just adds a "deleted" flag to the database entry.
Anyway hasn't the Cummings strategy been to provoke the HoC into blocking No Deal ?
Thus getting Boris off the No Deal hook without the Baker-Francois gang realising that Boris is against No Deal.
Possibly. But he has to keep saying he is happy for no deal when he finally does get an election, and if he wins that, does he follow through or, as hyufd thinks, throw them under the bus?
I would love to see the Baker-Francois gang get thrown under a bus either literally or metaphorically.
But what would the Baker-Francois gang do if Boris tried that ?
Tantrums and rebellions and attempts to bring down Boris, it really would be history repeating itself as farce.
Labour won't move to revoke position, its walking straight into 'proof' of the governments assertion they are trying to overturn the referendum and will of the people
I'm not sure the new LD position is a good idea, especially in the south-west.
They are getting overconfident. They think defections are the same as seat gains. Davey was claiming this afternoon they would be biggest party. Ludicrous fantasy.
They may get more votes than Labour, though not more seats.
From his Commons speech earlier, i would not be surprised if Dominic Grieve does not already have copies of some materials.
Deleting them now won't help anyone
Anyone can spoof a screen grab - the messages are encrypted- there is no back up accessible.
That may be true of Telegram and Signal, but your messages are forever backed up by WhatsApp. Deleting a WhatsApp conversation just adds a "deleted" flag to the database entry.
Bercow will not be missed. Good riddance. I’d make him wait a very long time for Ermine.
I would criticise him for failing to get to grips with the culture of bullying in the House, so painfully set out in the Cox report last October.
But I have met him at an awards dinner (for women) and he was very charming and genuinely interested, bothering to take time to talk to each of us. Much nicer in the flesh in his manner than he sometimes appears in the Commons. My husband has worked with him professionally and has a good opinion of him and that is very high praise indeed since Mr Cyclefree generally thinks most MPs are a total waste of space.
So I think he is a more rounded character than the caricature often presented here, I would say, unpopular as that may make me.
An interesting perspective. The bullying allegations appear to have more than a degree of credibility, which will tarnish his record, but we would have done a great deal worse over the last few years with a complaisant establishment type.
Labour won't move to revoke position, its walking straight into 'proof' of the governments assertion they are trying to overturn the referendum and will of the people
I'm not sure the new LD position is a good idea, especially in the south-west.
They are getting overconfident. They think defections are the same as seat gains. Davey was claiming this afternoon they would be biggest party. Ludicrous fantasy.
They may get more votes than Labour, though not more seats.
They will do well. Not nearly as well as their current bluster imo
Boris calls Jo Swinson 'the new leader of the Referendum Party, the James Goldsmith of our time' and says 'Corbyn will campaign against his own Deal', says Labour are frightened they might lose an election except for some Labour MPs 'who are frightened they might win'
They are getting overconfident. They think defections are the same as seat gains. Davey was claiming this afternoon they would be biggest party. Ludicrous fantasy.
I suppose you'd be happier if Ed had said "vote for us and we'll be happy with 30 seats". In politics, you have to aim high not low.
Boris calls Jo Swinson 'the new leader of the Referendum Party, the James Goldsmith of our time' and says 'Corbyn will campaign against his own Deal', says Labour are frightened they might lose an election except for some Labour MPs 'who are frightened they might win'
And what do we say about the mendacious narcissist ?
They are getting overconfident. They think defections are the same as seat gains. Davey was claiming this afternoon they would be biggest party. Ludicrous fantasy.
I suppose you'd be happier if Ed had said "vote for us and we'll be happy with 30 seats". In politics, you have to aim high not low.
Boris calls Jo Swinson 'the new leader of the Referendum Party, the James Goldsmith of our time' and says 'Corbyn will campaign against his own Deal', says Labour are frightened they might lose an election except for some Labour MPs 'who are frightened they might win'
And what do we say about the mendacious narcissist ?
From his Commons speech earlier, i would not be surprised if Dominic Grieve does not already have copies of some materials.
Deleting them now won't help anyone
Anyone can spoof a screen grab - the messages are encrypted- there is no back up accessible.
That may be true of Telegram and Signal, but your messages are forever backed up by WhatsApp. Deleting a WhatsApp conversation just adds a "deleted" flag to the database entry.
Has Grieve got access to Whatsapp’s Servers ?
Er no..
It's a very short step from using Parliament to ask people to hand over records, to asking WhatsApp to.
So, if you're (say) Dominic Cummings, do you hand over the records now, embarassing as some of the conversations might be? Or do you claim that no such conversations existed, and then get caught out later?
I thought Bercow didn't usually allow the same motion twice in the same parliament. Isn't this vote on an early election the second time in a few days?
From his Commons speech earlier, i would not be surprised if Dominic Grieve does not already have copies of some materials.
Deleting them now won't help anyone
Anyone can spoof a screen grab - the messages are encrypted- there is no back up accessible.
That may be true of Telegram and Signal, but your messages are forever backed up by WhatsApp. Deleting a WhatsApp conversation just adds a "deleted" flag to the database entry.
Has Grieve got access to Whatsapp’s Servers ?
Er no..
It's a very short step from using Parliament to ask people to hand over records, to asking WhatsApp to.
So, if you're (say) Dominic Cummings, do you hand over the records now, embarassing as some of the conversations might be? Or do you claim that no such conversations existed, and then get caught out later?
It’s not a short step at all - he would need a warrant.
I personally support gay marriage but you can vote against it for religious reasons without being homophobic, you can even support civil partnerships but not gay marriage
I'm not sure the new LD position is a good idea, especially in the south-west.
As 48% voted to remain in 2016 it's a reasonable pool in which to go fishing, wouldn't you say?
Yes, it is. There's fair support in the country for outright revoke without any UK-wide party having been out to bat for it. There's reason to suppose that the support could increase with an open campaign for it. And it throws open the Overton window for a 2nd referendum. They will be attacked in some quarters for it, but the Brexit taliban are already in the habit of attacking the Lib Dems anyway...
I thought Bercow didn't usually allow the same motion twice in the same parliament. Isn't this vote on an early election the second time in a few days?
I think like Votes of (No) Confidences a FTPA motion can be voted on as many times as you’d like in the same session.
Not sure some won’t try and spin suddenly agreeing to no deal . Problem is quite a few are leaving parliament so it won’t make much difference as they have nothing to lose .
Bercow will not be missed. Good riddance. I’d make him wait a very long time for Ermine.
I would criticise him for failing to get to grips with the culture of bullying in the House, so painfully set out in the Cox report last October.
But I have met him at an awards dinner (for women) and he was very charming and genuinely interested, bothering to take time to talk to each of us. Much nicer in the flesh in his manner than he sometimes appears in the Commons. My husband has worked with him professionally and has a good opinion of him and that is very high praise indeed since Mr Cyclefree generally thinks most MPs are a total waste of space.
So I think he is a more rounded character than the caricature often presented here, I would say, unpopular as that may make me.
Nuance and roundedness in a personal capacity hardly matters since most of us can only go by an MP's public and professional actions. Some would say he still comes out fine on that basis, but it is not unreasonable for others to judge him based on what we are able to see and hear of him, particularly when the very things a lot criticise him for is what others praise him for, so they are not even disputing the basic facts of the man, they just judge him differently by them.
Comments
I still remember him claiming that 9/2 on a Conservative hold in Elmet was a bad bet.
Deleting them now won't help anyone
And since when did Piers Morgan have anything to do with anything ?
FYI - Listening to Cook's autobiography, highly recommended.
Could be me, could be you.
Just kidding. It'll be the Jews.
One party deleting their messages doesn't prevent the messages surfacing from the other party.
I hate Brexit but feel that you have to have a second vote to Remain.
a) general election gives Johnson stonking majority, rams through the deal with some irrelevant tweaks
b) hung parliament or small majority, we get another extension in January, then repeat every 3/6 months ad nauseum.
Thus getting Boris off the No Deal hook without the Baker-Francois gang realising that Boris is against No Deal.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/09/liberal-democrats-poised-to-back-revoking-article-50-brexit
The storage on a device is encrypted, but that's meaningless in practice if you have access to the phone. And as there will be at least two and maybe dozens of recipients they had all better delete them at once.
Of course WhatsApp deleting a message isn't the same as sanitising the storage, and it doesn't mean there are no backups. Nor does it guarantee that there's no evidence a message was sent. We should note that as a rule destroying evidence is a very bad idea.
Honestly if you are going to get up to anything seriously naughty don't use any instant messaging system, be it iMessage, WhatsApp, Signal or anything else, as they all have issues.
https://www.cricket.com.au/news/kevin-pietersen-james-taylor-england-teammates-cut-short-autobiography/2018-05-20
You cant have 'evidence' of a future possibility, merely reasons you think it may come to be.
You asked 'would it really affect many seats?' I dont think its unreasonable to assume you are asserting it wont from the tone. If you weren't and just asking because you have no opinion on it at all then my answer is I believe it would.
Glad I could clear that up for you.
very good post
Nick Palmer?
It would have been a bit disingenuous of them to argue for a 2nd Ref and hope they win that.
A prudent person would have purged everything already. I used to think the tory party was full of smart people who considered such eventualities, now I'm not sure
Have England ever played the same 1-7 throughout a 5 match series which they lost ?
But I have met him at an awards dinner (for women) and he was very charming and genuinely interested, bothering to take time to talk to each of us. Much nicer in the flesh in his manner than he sometimes appears in the Commons. My husband has worked with him professionally and has a good opinion of him and that is very high praise indeed since Mr Cyclefree generally thinks most MPs are a total waste of space.
So I think he is a more rounded character than the caricature often presented here, I would say, unpopular as that may make me.
But what would the Baker-Francois gang do if Boris tried that ?
Tantrums and rebellions and attempts to bring down Boris, it really would be history repeating itself as farce.
Er no..
The bullying allegations appear to have more than a degree of credibility, which will tarnish his record, but we would have done a great deal worse over the last few years with a complaisant establishment type.
Hope they tell him to f off.
So, if you're (say) Dominic Cummings, do you hand over the records now, embarassing as some of the conversations might be? Or do you claim that no such conversations existed, and then get caught out later?
And at least the top order of Cook, Strauss, Bell, Pieterson, Collingwood, Flintoff and Jones were proven players.
But that was still two months of humiliation.
And it throws open the Overton window for a 2nd referendum. They will be attacked in some quarters for it, but the Brexit taliban are already in the habit of attacking the Lib Dems anyway...