Makes Jezza look like a broken, clapped out shell of a man.
Could LIb-Dems replace Labour as the main Opposition if there is an election at some point?
In the election after next maybe, this time their main aim to get more votes than Labour, then they can aim for getting more seats than Labour too after that
They would ask WhatsApp to voluntarily hand the information over. This isn't being used in a criminal prosecution, it's a request from the Houses of Parliament. And, of course, they would ask Mr Cummings (or whoever) to help them with their request. If Mr Cummings said no, they score a political victory.
The public would see a remainer parliament targeting individuals they have probably never heard of with the aim of bolstering their attempts at overturning Brexit.
Grieve is despised by leavers and there would be no political blowback from refusing to comply with his ridiculous games.
Frothing remainers would be apoplectic but then that is situation normal for the cretins.
Makes Jezza look like a broken, clapped out shell of a man.
Could LIb-Dems replace Labour as the main Opposition if there is an election at some point?
In the election after next maybe, this time their main aim to get more votes than Labour, then they can aim for getting more seats than Labour too after that
If Labour replace Corby, then the LibDems MPs will be back to their familiar taxi.
In fact, it is in the interests of the LibDems (and the SNP) to have an election asap -- not in 2 years time.
I personally support gay marriage but you can vote against it for religious reasons without being homophobic, you can even support civil partnerships but not gay marriage
Saying that same sex couple should be excluded from an opportunity that's freely available to heterosexual couple is definitionally homophobic. It doesn't matter that it comes from a religious point of view. Nobody requires the consent of a minister of religion to get married. If I want to marry someone of the same gender as me, it's not up to a priest or imam or rabbi to tell me whether that's ok or not. Their opinions are totally irrelevant to the legality of it.
No, civil partnerships provided the same legal rights as heterosexual couples had in marriage. It is the religious element of marriage that was the issue, indeed I still know some priests who refuse to marry divorced couples too
You can get married in a civil ceremony.
You can also have a civil partnership in a civil ceremony but you can only get married in a religious place of worship
False. You can marry in places other than a place of worship. I should know, that's what I did.
You cannot have a civil ceremony in a religious place of worship, only a marriage
Correct. But you can have a civil marriage ceremony in a register office. By law there must be no religious element to such a ceremony.
If you marry in a place of worship other than a C of E or RC church a civil registrar must attend to make the marriage valid in law (by getting the participants to sign the civil register and there are certain forms of words that the registrar must witness being used).
None of which changes the fact that for many religious people marriage is a religious institution above all and its definition cannot be changed by law, whatever civil ceremonies have or is decided under secular law
So I'm not married in the eyes of many religious people then? Even though I'm considerably more devoutly religious than most of them?
They would ask WhatsApp to voluntarily hand the information over. This isn't being used in a criminal prosecution, it's a request from the Houses of Parliament. And, of course, they would ask Mr Cummings (or whoever) to help them with their request. If Mr Cummings said no, they score a political victory.
The public would see a remainer parliament targeting individuals they have probably never heard of with the aim of bolstering their attempts at overturning Brexit.
Grieve is despised by leavers and there would be no political blowback from refusing to comply with his ridiculous games.
Frothing remainers would be apoplectic but then that is situation normal for the cretins.
I don't think Yellowhammer has much that will surprise, as the same resrarch can and has been done outside.
If the PM and Privy Councillors have lied to the Queen, it is quite aformidable issue constitutionally.
Possibly a people's vote from a cross party arrangement is more likely than a revocation from a majority libdem government?
How can the Liberal Democrats back revocation without a referendum? It doesn't even have a hint of democracy about it. Given their name, a huge contradiction.
Possibly a people's vote from a cross party arrangement is more likely than a revocation from a majority libdem government?
How can the Liberal Democrats back revocation without a referendum? It doesn't even have a hint of democracy about it. Given their name, a huge contradiction.
Surely it places their Eastbourne MP Stephen Lloyd in a somewhat invidious situation.
They would ask WhatsApp to voluntarily hand the information over. This isn't being used in a criminal prosecution, it's a request from the Houses of Parliament. And, of course, they would ask Mr Cummings (or whoever) to help them with their request. If Mr Cummings said no, they score a political victory.
The public would see a remainer parliament targeting individuals they have probably never heard of with the aim of bolstering their attempts at overturning Brexit.
Grieve is despised by leavers and there would be no political blowback from refusing to comply with his ridiculous games.
Frothing remainers would be apoplectic but then that is situation normal for the cretins.
I don't think Yellowhammer has much that will surprise, as the same resrarch can and has been done outside.
If the PM and Privy Councillors have lied to the Queen, it is quite aformidable issue constitutionally.
Possibly a people's vote from a cross party arrangement is more likely than a revocation from a majority libdem government?
How can the Liberal Democrats back revocation without a referendum? It doesn't even have a hint of democracy about it. Given their name, a huge contradiction.
Surely it places their Eastbourne MP Stephen Lloyd in a somewhat invidious situation.
Hasn't he left to become an Independent? Just about every other bugger has too, mind.
Makes Jezza look like a broken, clapped out shell of a man.
Could LIb-Dems replace Labour as the main Opposition if there is an election at some point?
In the election after next maybe, this time their main aim to get more votes than Labour, then they can aim for getting more seats than Labour too after that
If Labour replace Corby, then the LibDems MPs will be back to their familiar taxi.
In fact, it is in the interests of the LibDems (and the SNP) to have an election asap -- not in 2 years time.
Labour won't replace Corbyn, the membership and NEC are now in the pockets of Corbynism which gives the LDs their chance
Makes Jezza look like a broken, clapped out shell of a man.
Could LIb-Dems replace Labour as the main Opposition if there is an election at some point?
In the election after next maybe, this time their main aim to get more votes than Labour, then they can aim for getting more seats than Labour too after that
If Labour replace Corby, then the LibDems MPs will be back to their familiar taxi.
In fact, it is in the interests of the LibDems (and the SNP) to have an election asap -- not in 2 years time.
Labour won't replace Corbyn, the membership and NEC are now in the pockets of Corbynism which gives the LDs their chance
He might be quietly persuaded by his allies or more likely resign voluntarily as rumoured earlier in the year.
Makes Jezza look like a broken, clapped out shell of a man.
Could LIb-Dems replace Labour as the main Opposition if there is an election at some point?
In the election after next maybe, this time their main aim to get more votes than Labour, then they can aim for getting more seats than Labour too after that
If Labour replace Corby, then the LibDems MPs will be back to their familiar taxi.
In fact, it is in the interests of the LibDems (and the SNP) to have an election asap -- not in 2 years time.
Labour won't replace Corbyn, the membership and NEC are now in the pockets of Corbynism which gives the LDs their chance
He might be quietly persuaded by his allies or more likely resign voluntarily as rumoured earlier in the year.
He won't and even if he did a Corbynista would be elected by the membership to replace him
They would ask WhatsApp to voluntarily hand the information over. This isn't being used in a criminal prosecution, it's a request from the Houses of Parliament. And, of course, they would ask Mr Cummings (or whoever) to help them with their request. If Mr Cummings said no, they score a political victory.
The public would see a remainer parliament targeting individuals they have probably never heard of with the aim of bolstering their attempts at overturning Brexit.
Grieve is despised by leavers and there would be no political blowback from refusing to comply with his ridiculous games.
Frothing remainers would be apoplectic but then that is situation normal for the cretins.
I don't think Yellowhammer has much that will surprise, as the same resrarch can and has been done outside.
If the PM and Privy Councillors have lied to the Queen, it is quite aformidable issue constitutionally.
Even worse if they’ve lied to the court.
Were that to be the case, what might the consequences be?
They would ask WhatsApp to voluntarily hand the information over. This isn't being used in a criminal prosecution, it's a request from the Houses of Parliament. And, of course, they would ask Mr Cummings (or whoever) to help them with their request. If Mr Cummings said no, they score a political victory.
The public would see a remainer parliament targeting individuals they have probably never heard of with the aim of bolstering their attempts at overturning Brexit.
Grieve is despised by leavers and there would be no political blowback from refusing to comply with his ridiculous games.
Frothing remainers would be apoplectic but then that is situation normal for the cretins.
I don't think Yellowhammer has much that will surprise, as the same resrarch can and has been done outside.
If the PM and Privy Councillors have lied to the Queen, it is quite aformidable issue constitutionally.
Even worse if they’ve lied to the court.
Were that to be the case, what might the consequences be?
Perjury, contempt, PCOJ, but HMG didn't admit any statements as to the reasons for prorogation in the Cherry case in Scotland. I don't know whether they did so in Miller in London.
Both should be. Corbyn has more chance of clinging on. The Tories do not have the same sentimental attachment to Johnson Labour have to Corbyn. The problem for a long time with Corbyn is that whatever horrors he presides over, Labour members see deposing him as a repudiation of their core beliefs. The fact he's an old fraud with toxic views is unable to change that. It's asking people to kill the hope they wrongly believed in. If Johnson fails on the Other hand he is done. There are plenty of hardcore Brexiteers who believe they are better equipped, Remainers loathe him, and everyone else are notoriously impatient with leaders who mess up.
Possibly a people's vote from a cross party arrangement is more likely than a revocation from a majority libdem government?
How can the Liberal Democrats back revocation without a referendum? It doesn't even have a hint of democracy about it. Given their name, a huge contradiction.
Because if they win a majority they'd be a democratically elected government with that in their manifesto. You can argue it's the wrong decision, but anti-democratic it ain't. Don't like it? Vote for someone else. That's democracy. It did not stop in June 2016.
Both should be. Corbyn has more chance of clinging on. The Tories do not have the same sentimental attachment to Johnson Labour have to Corbyn. The problem for a long time with Corbyn is that whatever horrors he presides over, Labour members see deposing him as a repudiation of their core beliefs. The fact he's an old fraud with toxic views is unable to change that. It's asking people to kill the hope they wrongly believed in. If Johnson fails on the Other hand he is done. There are plenty of hardcore Brexiteers who believe they are better equipped, Remainers loathe him, and everyone else are notoriously impatient with leaders who mess up.
The Tories don't have the same sentimental attachment to leaders full stop.
They toppled Heath, IDS, May, even Thatcher when it looked like they were dragging the party down with them or after a poor election result while Labour stuck with the likes of Foot and Kinnock and Brown
Makes Jezza look like a broken, clapped out shell of a man.
Could LIb-Dems replace Labour as the main Opposition if there is an election at some point?
Sceptical. The problem is the soft left are still onside with Corbyn Labour and the voters they need to replace Labour are very different to those they need to get back to 2005/2010 levels. If it does happen, it will happen very fast and likely be triggered by Labour's own failings - e.g. EHRC and mass resignations, a Corbyn defeat and refusal to resign and or mass resignations.
Both should be. Corbyn has more chance of clinging on. The Tories do not have the same sentimental attachment to Johnson Labour have to Corbyn. The problem for a long time with Corbyn is that whatever horrors he presides over, Labour members see deposing him as a repudiation of their core beliefs. The fact he's an old fraud with toxic views is unable to change that. It's asking people to kill the hope they wrongly believed in. If Johnson fails on the Other hand he is done. There are plenty of hardcore Brexiteers who believe they are better equipped, Remainers loathe him, and everyone else are notoriously impatient with leaders who mess up.
The Tories don't have the same sentimental attachment to leaders full stop.
They toppled Heath, IDS, May, even Thatcher when it looked like they were dragging the party down with them or after a poor election result while Labour stuck with the likes of Foot and Kinnock and Brown
True. But there is a point about Corbyn that is different. He won by speaking to the romantic part of Labour's soul. I know this as a member on the left who was rare in going "What the fuck are you doing?" In 2015 and sparking fury among friends. Asking some people to disown Corbyn is like asking them to admit a huge part of their politics is really, really wrong. It's a psychological issue rather than the usual Labour sentimentality. Hence why he gets away with things no other Labour would.
In Central London you can see homeless heroin addicts shooting up in doorways. I'm not sure we're that mucg better.
I met a friend from the US in Dublin earlier this year, and the first thing she said was “where are all the homeless people”
By the way, how on Earth do Americans cope with having all these radio stations that are anagrams of each other? Totally confusing and unmemorable.
They always give their frequency as well which is what most people remember, and some older ones got memorable callsigns like New York’s premier AM news station 1010 WINS.
Fun fact: most American radio and TV stations east of the Mississippi begin with W and most west of it begin with K.
Both should be. Corbyn has more chance of clinging on. The Tories do not have the same sentimental attachment to Johnson Labour have to Corbyn. The problem for a long time with Corbyn is that whatever horrors he presides over, Labour members see deposing him as a repudiation of their core beliefs. The fact he's an old fraud with toxic views is unable to change that. It's asking people to kill the hope they wrongly believed in. If Johnson fails on the Other hand he is done. There are plenty of hardcore Brexiteers who believe they are better equipped, Remainers loathe him, and everyone else are notoriously impatient with leaders who mess up.
The Tories don't have the same sentimental attachment to leaders full stop.
They toppled Heath, IDS, May, even Thatcher when it looked like they were dragging the party down with them or after a poor election result while Labour stuck with the likes of Foot and Kinnock and Brown
True. But there is a point about Corbyn that is different. He won by speaking to the romantic part of Labour's soul. I know this as a member on the left who was rare in going "What the fuck are you doing?" In 2015 and sparking fury among friends. Asking some people to disown Corbyn is like asking them to admit a huge part of their politics is really, really wrong. It's a psychological issue rather than the usual Labour sentimentality. Hence why he gets away with things no other Labour would.
Surely the most important thing, from a Labour point of view, ought to be to get a Labour government elected, and Corbyn is an impediment to that. (Not addressing you personally, addressing Labour members in general).
Alan Duncan says our postwar and Victorian party system facing collapse
Well no effing shit!
The country is no longer conservative by any stretch and industry has died a death in Britain meaning a "Labour" is no longer relevant.
Why do you say not conservative? I accept Islington isn't very conservative these days.
Well it isnt. Not in any meaningful way.
Even in the deepest rural backwater, no one would bat an eyelid if you came out gay or trans or anything else for that matter.
No one gives a flying fig what anyone else does, there really is no society whereby people care what anyone else does. No shame (for better or worse), just shrugs and keeping ones self to them self. Change is happening at a rapid pace and nothing is conserved. And everyone is mostly o.k with that as long it doesn't effect them. This is an inherently liberal society.
Even in terms of economics the Tory party are more or less social Democrats now.
Why didn't Boris put forth a motion to have an election ignoring the full term Parliament act?
It only needed a simple majority and then a 14 day cooling off period?
For that It would have to be a motion of no confidence. Not only would it make Boris be the first PM in history to propose no confidence in his own administration, but he doesn’t have the power to, unless tabled as part of planned Parliamentary business, and there’s no time left for that. Only the Leader of the Opposition can propose a confidence motion for immediate debate.
Alan Duncan says our postwar and Victorian party system facing collapse
Well no effing shit!
The country is no longer conservative by any stretch and industry has died a death in Britain meaning a "Labour" is no longer relevant.
On reducing immigration, regaining sovereignty via Brexit, keeping their own taxes low, support for the monarchy and tougher law and order this country is still very much conservative.
While the country has little time for Corbyn nonetheless it does support more rent controls, nationalising the railways and key industries and higher taxes on the rich and big corporations which was why Labour managed to get a hung parliament in 2017 in the first place. Plus we still have manufacturing, particularly high tech manufacturing and unions even if they are not as strong as they were.
To say everyone is economically and socially liberal now is a big stretch, certainly outside of wealthier urban areas
I'd be surprised of all of them agree to go back even if he offers it.
I'd be happy to welcome all of them back, they will be needed to fight Corbyn once Brexit is done.
When I say all, all bar Grieve who I loathe with a passion that surprises me.
There is no other politician, from any party, that I have detested as much.
If the Conservative Party invites them back, it would be a statement that a mistake was done. Otherwise, why do so ? Will there be apologies ? You cannot throw people out with half a century of service and then say, come back all is forgiven. Who will forgive whom ?
If the Conservative Party invites them back, it would be a statement that a mistake was done. Otherwise, why do so ? Will there be apologies ? You cannot throw people out with half a century of service and then say, come back all is forgiven. Who will forgive whom ?
Yup. If the Tories want them back they'll have to replace Boris.
It's a slightly weird constitutional situation right now where the Prime Minister is the one person in parliament the least likely to be able to command a majority.
Just finished watching all the ceremony and drama on BBC Parliament. The break down of ettiquette after a very unusual prorogation is a very bad sign. As is the first hint the State opening will be scaled down and not feature Her Majesty given the very odd circumstances.
Anyone betting on no GE this year would be very encouraged by interview with Stephen Pound on LBC just now.
He was completely dismissive of a GE in Nov or Dec - said can't have a GE in those months as too cold and dark - which would badly affect turnout. Also said the public don't want to be distracted from Christmas(!)
Furthermore he said little or no point in having a GE in any case as would produce another divided Parliament which would be unable to make any more progress on Brexit than the current Parliament.
Said he preferred a "confirmatory vote" on Brexit.
Just finished watching all the ceremony and drama on BBC Parliament. The break down of ettiquette after a very unusual prorogation is a very bad sign. As is the first hint the State opening will be scaled down and not feature Her Majesty given the very odd circumstances.
Wise counsel ensured Her Majesty wasn't there tonight to be anywhere near that shitshow. The actions and words of John Bercow and some Opposition MPs were genuinely shocking and an absolute disgrace.
One thing is for sure, the role of Speaker is forever ruined now, to be filled only by a partisan figure, thanks to the little man and his fans in Labour, the Lib Dems and the SNP.
Jeremy Corbyn is now shaking hands with John Bercow and Labour MPs are queued up to shake Bercow’s hand. The Speaker is taking his time with each handshake, giving Ian Blackford a big pat of the back and a rub of the arm. Bercow now hugging John McDonell. This might take a while."
Anyone betting on no GE this year would be very encouraged by interview with Stephen Pound on LBC just now.
He was completely dismissive of a GE in Nov or Dec - said can't have a GE in those months as too cold and dark - which would badly affect turnout. Also said the public don't want to be distracted from Christmas(!)
Furthermore he said little or no point in having a GE in any case as would produce another divided Parliament which would be unable to make any more progress on Brexit than the current Parliament.
Said he preferred a "confirmatory vote" on Brexit.
Now they're getting it.
If a government with a majority of zero just gave you 20, and you now have a majority to do what you want, why would you have an election when you can just do what you want?
Anyone betting on no GE this year would be very encouraged by interview with Stephen Pound on LBC just now.
He was completely dismissive of a GE in Nov or Dec - said can't have a GE in those months as too cold and dark - which would badly affect turnout. Also said the public don't want to be distracted from Christmas(!)
Furthermore he said little or no point in having a GE in any case as would produce another divided Parliament which would be unable to make any more progress on Brexit than the current Parliament.
Said he preferred a "confirmatory vote" on Brexit.
Now they're getting it.
If a government with a majority of zero just gave you 20, and you now have a majority to do what you want, why would you have an election when you can just do what you want?
They dont have a majority. They are 6 or 7 different factions
Just finished watching all the ceremony and drama on BBC Parliament. The break down of ettiquette after a very unusual prorogation is a very bad sign. As is the first hint the State opening will be scaled down and not feature Her Majesty given the very odd circumstances.
Wise counsel ensured Her Majesty wasn't there tonight to be anywhere near that shitshow. The actions and words of John Bercow and some Opposition MPs were genuinely shocking and an absolute disgrace.
One thing is for sure, the role of Speaker is forever ruined now, to be filled only by a partisan figure, thanks to the little man and his fans in Labour, the Lib Dems and the SNP.
One day there is going to be a reckoning.
Remind us who was the arsehole who decided to shut down Parliament ?
They dont have a majority. They are 6 or 7 different factions
A majority is always comprised of different factions, whether they're in a single party or not. But there's probably a majority for a way forward, namely tweak the PD to make a softer brexit and put it to a confirmatory referendum.
They dont have a majority. They are 6 or 7 different factions
A majority is always comprised of different factions, whether they're in a single party or not. But there's probably a majority for a way forward, namely tweak the PD to make a softer brexit and put it to a confirmatory referendum.
No chance. They are not in a position to negotiate with the EU. Unless they VONC and firm a government they have no legal basis to negotiate
"Mayhem in the Commons as MPs scuffle at the Speaker's chair amid protests over the suspension of Parliament as John Bercow tells Tory member 'I don't give a flying flamingo what you think'"
Comments
Grieve is despised by leavers and there would be no political blowback from refusing to comply with his ridiculous games.
Frothing remainers would be apoplectic but then that is situation normal for the cretins.
In fact, it is in the interests of the LibDems (and the SNP) to have an election asap -- not in 2 years time.
A blind chimp could get in there with a red badge.
If the PM and Privy Councillors have lied to the Queen, it is quite aformidable issue constitutionally.
The Labour MP who attacked Austin during his speech is a disgrace.
Prediction? Govt needs 434, falls 128 short.
Noes 46
So little surprise and 2/3 majority requirement not met for a general election
Err yeah, isn't that the whole point of an opposition?
Lol, you just abstained on a general election mate.
Right, Blackford's talking so I'm off to bed.
You just abstained on a general election mate.
What a knob.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liz_Saville_Roberts
Surely you'd try and bin a PM at the first opportunity if you don't.
https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1171197497114529794?s=20
Fifth!
An ignominious end to a terribly overlong and, I'm sure when we look back on it, constitutionally disastrous session of parliament.
Sixth SNP point of order. Night all.
They toppled Heath, IDS, May, even Thatcher when it looked like they were dragging the party down with them or after a poor election result while Labour stuck with the likes of Foot and Kinnock and Brown
The country is no longer conservative by any stretch and industry has died a death in Britain meaning a "Labour" is no longer relevant.
When I say all, all bar Grieve who I loathe with a passion that surprises me.
There is no other politician, from any party, that I have detested as much.
By the way, how on Earth do Americans cope with having all these radio stations that are anagrams of each other? Totally confusing and unmemorable.
Fun fact: most American radio and TV stations east of the Mississippi begin with W and most west of it begin with K.
Even in the deepest rural backwater, no one would bat an eyelid if you came out gay or trans or anything else for that matter.
No one gives a flying fig what anyone else does, there really is no society whereby people care what anyone else does. No shame (for better or worse), just shrugs and keeping ones self to them self. Change is happening at a rapid pace and nothing is conserved. And everyone is mostly o.k with that as long it doesn't effect them. This is an inherently liberal society.
Even in terms of economics the Tory party are more or less social Democrats now.
It only needed a simple majority and then a 14 day cooling off period?
While the country has little time for Corbyn nonetheless it does support more rent controls, nationalising the railways and key industries and higher taxes on the rich and big corporations which was why Labour managed to get a hung parliament in 2017 in the first place. Plus we still have manufacturing, particularly high tech manufacturing and unions even if they are not as strong as they were.
To say everyone is economically and socially liberal now is a big stretch, certainly outside of wealthier urban areas
Will there be apologies ? You cannot throw people out with half a century of service and then say, come back all is forgiven. Who will forgive whom ?
It's a slightly weird constitutional situation right now where the Prime Minister is the one person in parliament the least likely to be able to command a majority.
He was completely dismissive of a GE in Nov or Dec - said can't have a GE in those months as too cold and dark - which would badly affect turnout. Also said the public don't want to be distracted from Christmas(!)
Furthermore he said little or no point in having a GE in any case as would produce another divided Parliament which would be unable to make any more progress on Brexit than the current Parliament.
Said he preferred a "confirmatory vote" on Brexit.
One thing is for sure, the role of Speaker is forever ruined now, to be filled only by a partisan figure, thanks to the little man and his fans in Labour, the Lib Dems and the SNP.
One day there is going to be a reckoning.
01:48
Jeremy Corbyn is now shaking hands with John Bercow and Labour MPs are queued up to shake Bercow’s hand. The Speaker is taking his time with each handshake, giving Ian Blackford a big pat of the back and a rub of the arm. Bercow now hugging John McDonell. This might take a while."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/sep/09/brexit-latest-news-eu-no-deal-bill-royal-assent-boris-johnson-parliament-politics-live
If a government with a majority of zero just gave you 20, and you now have a majority to do what you want, why would you have an election when you can just do what you want?
https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1171226614866337792?s=20
"Mayhem in the Commons as MPs scuffle at the Speaker's chair amid protests over the suspension of Parliament as John Bercow tells Tory member 'I don't give a flying flamingo what you think'"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7445963/Scuffles-break-Speakers-chair-amid-attempts-shut-Parliament.html
This also makes it easier to pass their Brexit plan, because they can buy off waverers with pork.