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  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    nico67 said:

    I can’t believe France wants this to drag on for a few more years .

    I’d take these suggestions with a pinch of salt .

    At most I think they might offer 6 months . This would allow an election , a new deal and ratification .

    As always they will settle at half. So it will be 31 Oct. 2020. This will give the EU time for budgetary calculations as the new one starts from 2021.
  • Mr. JS, too difficult to say that confidently.

    We could see a shift towards Remain, a second referendum, Corbyn replaced by a non-lunatic leading Labour to huge leads, or Corbyn remaining (ahem) and the Lib Dems continuing to grow.

    I just hope Boris Johnson gets thrown overboard. He's a fool, and so are those MPs who backed him.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If so Boris will definitely resign by the end of the month and lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal ticket against PM Clarke, Harman or whoever it ends up being asking for and agreeing a 2 year extension (Swinson and the 21 Tory rebels vetoing Corbyn as PM of course)
    Where is Boris's guaranteed majority you were so recently confident off
    Boris will have a 10%+ poll lead across the board within a month if he leads the Tories into opposition committed to deliver Brexit against a governing coalition of Labour, the LDs, SNP, Plaid, Greens and 21 anti No Deal Tories agreeing to a French demand to extend for 2 years rather than deliver the Brexit 17 million voted for
    I am afraid he won't.

    He and Cummings have overplayed their hand and, perveresely, has made brexit much less likely
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    The lengthy eulogies to Bercow will have at least allowed a vast purging of electronic communictons to happen in Downing Street.....
  • nico67 said:

    I can’t believe France wants this to drag on for a few more years .

    I’d take these suggestions with a pinch of salt .

    At most I think they might offer 6 months . This would allow an election , a new deal and ratification .

    What they don’t want is this drama every few months, so a longer extension makes sense from that perspective.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Re: Homelessness. Here in small town Leaverstan it's been the defining event of the last few years. 1. The town centre park being slowly overwhelmed by street drinkers, drug dealing, drug use, rough sleeping etc. 2. The communal hallways of dozens of attractive social housing blocks being taken over as drug dealing locations and shooting galleries. 3. The number of people in front rank mental health crisis wandering the streets often begging or raiding bins.

    In terms of public squalor the consensus is the town has seen nothing like it since the last of the industrial slum clearences in the '30s.

    Homelessness seems to up in Maidenhead as well. Not sure it is locals though.
    In London (don't know about Maidenhead) it is largely Eastern Europeans. One of the reasons for the Brexit vote, methinks.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    AndyJS said:

    The only winner at the moment is Farage. The more delays there are, the more popular he becomes.

    Farage and extremism.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115

    nico67 said:

    I can’t believe France wants this to drag on for a few more years .

    I’d take these suggestions with a pinch of salt .

    At most I think they might offer 6 months . This would allow an election , a new deal and ratification .

    What they don’t want is this drama every few months, so a longer extension makes sense from that perspective.
    Two years of the UK being a complete pain in the arse in EU meetings will be funny.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited September 2019
    Scott_P said:
    Dominic in a good mood ahead of the electronic communications and SO24 vote, then.
  • Byronic said:
    That's just what Grieve is saying has happened. It's not happening live!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If so Boris will definitely resign by the end of the month and lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal ticket against PM Clarke, Harman or whoever it ends up being asking for and agreeing a 2 year extension (Swinson and the 21 Tory rebels vetoing Corbyn as PM of course)
    Where is Boris's guaranteed majority you were so recently confident off
    Boris will have a 10%+ poll lead across the board within a month if he leads the Tories into opposition committed to deliver Brexit against a governing coalition of Labour, the LDs, SNP, Plaid, Greens and 21 anti No Deal Tories agreeing to a French demand to extend for 2 years rather than deliver the Brexit 17 million voted for
    I am afraid he won't.

    He and Cummings have overplayed their hand and, perveresely, has made brexit much less likely
    Wrong, he will.

    The Labour Leave vote will collapse to the Tories as will the Brexit Party vote if we end up with a Remain Alliance and Corbyn Labour government bowing to Macron and the French to thwart Brexit
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited September 2019
    Byronic said:
    Wow indeed, he really might be onto something after all. Out comes the rabbit from the hat I mentioned.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    Skeptical about us being able to secure a 2 year extension but if we can it could be just the ticket. That really ought to be long enough to pass the Withdrawal Agreement. We can then enter Transition and get cracking on nailing down the all important Future Relationship.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Scott_P said:
    Dominic in a good mood ahead of the electronic communication and SO24 vote, then.
    What is intriguing is the language used: "central to stopping Brexit". That's a barely-concealed admission that Brexit has been, or will be, stopped. And that is huge.
  • Re long extensions: The obvious date is 31/12/20. That way the whole of the original 21 month transition period is replaced with extension. It costs us nothing as we were due to make full payments under the WA anyway. And the extra 14 months is actually enough to renegotiate the WA and pass it and/or put it up against X in a referendum. If the EU offered us 14 months or crash out in late October they'd be doing us a favour. But my instinct is that isn't how EU culture works and they'll offer something longer that 31/1/20 in the Benn Act to prove a point but not long enough to look imperial. 29/3/20 has a nice feel as the anniversary of the first exit date. So a 5 month extension.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152
    AndyJS said:

    The only winner at the moment is Farage. The more delays there are, the more popular he becomes.

    No, the Brexit Party are polling about 10% lower than they were under May and the Tories about 10% higher and that will continue as long as Boris sticks to his guns
  • Bercow's instigated some worthwhile reforms in the HOC so well done to him for that. However, on Brexit related matters he's not been impartial and has not even felt the need to pretend to be so.

    Furthermore, the high handed manner in which he dealt with the bullying claims is a stain on Parliament's reputation.

    His statement today and the manner in which he delivered it summed him up perfectly. It was all about him.
  • Scott_P said:
    A huge amount of extrapolating going on there.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    edited September 2019

    Re long extensions: The obvious date is 31/12/20. That way the whole of the original 21 month transition period is replaced with extension. It costs us nothing as we were due to make full payments under the WA anyway. And the extra 14 months is actually enough to renegotiate the WA and pass it and/or put it up against X in a referendum. If the EU offered us 14 months or crash out in late October they'd be doing us a favour. But my instinct is that isn't how EU culture works and they'll offer something longer that 31/1/20 in the Benn Act to prove a point but not long enough to look imperial. 29/3/20 has a nice feel as the anniversary of the first exit date. So a 5 month extension.

    No. They want us to have a referendum and revoke. Any extension HAS to give us time to do that - call a referendum and cancel Brexit.

    Six months minimum? - but that's what they gave us before and we flunked it. So I agree with others here: it will be a year. Or more.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152
    edited September 2019

    The lengthy eulogies to Bercow will have at least allowed a vast purging of electronic communictons to happen in Downing Street.....

    There are normally backups you know
  • Re: Homelessness. Here in small town Leaverstan it's been the defining event of the last few years. 1. The town centre park being slowly overwhelmed by street drinkers, drug dealing, drug use, rough sleeping etc. 2. The communal hallways of dozens of attractive social housing blocks being taken over as drug dealing locations and shooting galleries. 3. The number of people in front rank mental health crisis wandering the streets often begging or raiding bins.

    In terms of public squalor the consensus is the town has seen nothing like it since the last of the industrial slum clearences in the '30s.

    My wife did some work with the homeless in Leamington. One of the problems is that a lot of towns are very strict in enforcing vagrancy laws, so that homeless people are moved on to the next town and then the next one - until they all end up in London or other big cities. Leamington is less strict than other places, so has quite a few who have been moved on from places like Oxford. This was a big problem in the 1990s, too, if I remember right. Then government action significantly reduced it. Sadly, it is not currently a priority and has not been for a while.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152

    Byronic said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Byronic said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:
    In Central London you can see homeless heroin addicts shooting up in doorways. I'm not sure we're that mucg better.
    We're not great. but we are very much better than the USA. San Francisco has times the number of homeless, per capita, compared to London.
    California, though, attracts the homeless from all over America. Would you rather sleep on the streets of San Diego or Boise, Idaho?
    Yet apparently (I've not been north of California recently) the homelessness is spread across the West Coast. It's also bad in Portland, and likewise Seattle (whose climate is very similar to London)

    And you missed Venice Beach on your list of LA disaster zones. I was there a few months back and Fuck me, it's edgy. It borders on dystopian. Urban America is in serious trouble.

    We did an event in Seattle a couple of years back and had homeless people wandering into it off the streets. I was not there, but colleagues say it is a pitiful place. I can't imagine anyhting is as bad as San Francisco, though. As I said before, it's the worst, the bleakest and most abject homlessness I have seen outside of India. It is genuinely jaw-dropping.

    Yes, LA had plenty of homeless with shopping trolleys when I went
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If so Boris will definitely resign by the end of the month and lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal ticket against PM Clarke, Harman or whoever it ends up being asking for and agreeing a 2 year extension (Swinson and the 21 Tory rebels vetoing Corbyn as PM of course)
    Where is Boris's guaranteed majority you were so recently confident off
    Boris will have a 10%+ poll lead across the board within a month if he leads the Tories into opposition committed to deliver Brexit against a governing coalition of Labour, the LDs, SNP, Plaid, Greens and 21 anti No Deal Tories agreeing to a French demand to extend for 2 years rather than deliver the Brexit 17 million voted for
    I am afraid he won't.

    He and Cummings have overplayed their hand and, perveresely, has made brexit much less likely
    Wrong, he will.

    The Labour Leave vote will collapse to the Tories as will the Brexit Party vote if we end up with a Remain Alliance and Corbyn Labour government bowing to Macron and the French to thwart Brexit
    I have news for you. People I know who voted for Brexit now think its not a good idea and Brexit should be cancelled. The Leave vote is disintergrating! :wink: You are living in the past...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Byronic said:

    lol!

    I think this commenter underneath has diagnosed it perfectly

    "He was about to put his hands in his pockets. He then remembers he’s not supposed to do that, so does what anyone with the mental age of a 10yr old would do - pretend he had something else to do with his arms instead"

    Yep, every parent will recognise that behaviour - and that expressin. The UK Prime Minister is a naughty boy who is very awkward in adult company.

    Look like Ronnie Barker playing a country bumpkin.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If so Boris will definitely resign by the end of the month and lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal ticket against PM Clarke, Harman or whoever it ends up being asking for and agreeing a 2 year extension (Swinson and the 21 Tory rebels vetoing Corbyn as PM of course)
    Where is Boris's guaranteed majority you were so recently confident off
    Boris will have a 10%+ poll lead across the board within a month if he leads the Tories into opposition committed to deliver Brexit against a governing coalition of Labour, the LDs, SNP, Plaid, Greens and 21 anti No Deal Tories agreeing to a French demand to extend for 2 years rather than deliver the Brexit 17 million voted for
    I am afraid he won't.

    He and Cummings have overplayed their hand and, perveresely, has made brexit much less likely
    Wrong, he will.

    The Labour Leave vote will collapse to the Tories as will the Brexit Party vote if we end up with a Remain Alliance and Corbyn Labour government bowing to Macron and the French to thwart Brexit
    I have news for you. People I know who voted for Brexit now think its not a good idea and Brexit should be cancelled. The Leave vote is disintergrating! :wink: You are living in the past...
    Opinium this weekend had 39% backing no Deal and only 26% backing Revoke
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If so Boris will definitely resign by the end of the month and lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal ticket against PM Clarke, Harman or whoever it ends up being asking for and agreeing a 2 year extension (Swinson and the 21 Tory rebels vetoing Corbyn as PM of course)
    Where is Boris's guaranteed majority you were so recently confident off
    Boris will have a 10%+ poll lead across the board within a month if he leads the Tories into opposition committed to deliver Brexit against a governing coalition of Labour, the LDs, SNP, Plaid, Greens and 21 anti No Deal Tories agreeing to a French demand to extend for 2 years rather than deliver the Brexit 17 million voted for
    I am afraid he won't.

    He and Cummings have overplayed their hand and, perveresely, has made brexit much less likely
    Wrong, he will.

    The Labour Leave vote will collapse to the Tories as will the Brexit Party vote if we end up with a Remain Alliance and Corbyn Labour government bowing to Macron and the French to thwart Brexit
    HYUFD.

    Brexit is being lost by Boris and Cummings errors, nothing more and no one else

    Both a disaster for our country and the one nation conservative party

    Boris is looking more like the 'Benny Hill' of politics daily, sad to say
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152

    Re: Homelessness. Here in small town Leaverstan it's been the defining event of the last few years. 1. The town centre park being slowly overwhelmed by street drinkers, drug dealing, drug use, rough sleeping etc. 2. The communal hallways of dozens of attractive social housing blocks being taken over as drug dealing locations and shooting galleries. 3. The number of people in front rank mental health crisis wandering the streets often begging or raiding bins.

    In terms of public squalor the consensus is the town has seen nothing like it since the last of the industrial slum clearences in the '30s.

    My wife did some work with the homeless in Leamington. One of the problems is that a lot of towns are very strict in enforcing vagrancy laws, so that homeless people are moved on to the next town and then the next one - until they all end up in London or other big cities. Leamington is less strict than other places, so has quite a few who have been moved on from places like Oxford. This was a big problem in the 1990s, too, if I remember right. Then government action significantly reduced it. Sadly, it is not currently a priority and has not been for a while.

    https://www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2017/jan/27/homelessness-reduction-bill-cash
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733

    HYUFD said:

    If so Boris will definitely resign by the end of the month and lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal ticket against PM Clarke, Harman or whoever it ends up being asking for and agreeing a 2 year extension (Swinson and the 21 Tory rebels vetoing Corbyn as PM of course)
    Where is Boris's guaranteed majority you were so recently confident off
    When the polls change, so does @HYUFD.

    Often wrong, but never in doubt...
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Re: Homelessness. Here in small town Leaverstan it's been the defining event of the last few years. 1. The town centre park being slowly overwhelmed by street drinkers, drug dealing, drug use, rough sleeping etc. 2. The communal hallways of dozens of attractive social housing blocks being taken over as drug dealing locations and shooting galleries. 3. The number of people in front rank mental health crisis wandering the streets often begging or raiding bins.

    In terms of public squalor the consensus is the town has seen nothing like it since the last of the industrial slum clearences in the '30s.

    My wife did some work with the homeless in Leamington. One of the problems is that a lot of towns are very strict in enforcing vagrancy laws, so that homeless people are moved on to the next town and then the next one - until they all end up in London or other big cities. Leamington is less strict than other places, so has quite a few who have been moved on from places like Oxford. This was a big problem in the 1990s, too, if I remember right. Then government action significantly reduced it. Sadly, it is not currently a priority and has not been for a while.

    What REALLY strikes me about America, these days, is the poor quality of life in many cities compared to Asia and Europe.

    Like, you go to some midWest town with a gun problem, a drug problem, a race problem, a homeless problem, and a winter climate where it hits -30F. And you learn about the local Irish or Norwegian or Korean or German communities, and you think: sure, I can see why these people came here in the 19th century, but when they wake up now and look at the ice and the blood and the syringes, they must wish they were back in Dublin or Oslo or Seoul or Munich. where life is now a lot better.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    malcolmg said:

    AndyJS said:

    Scott_P said:
    Haha. No chance an SNP MP getting to be speaker. Ironic wanting to stand to be speaker for a parliament you don't want to be in.
    I think he has the second smallest majority of an MP as well.
    And that matters a jot, is he or is he not an MP. I never knew the speaker was restricted to an English MP with a large majority. Unwritten rules like the constitution no doubt.
    George Thomas was a Cardiff MP.
  • HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:

    The only winner at the moment is Farage. The more delays there are, the more popular he becomes.

    No, the Brexit Party are polling about 10% lower than they were under May and the Tories about 10% higher and that will continue as long as Boris sticks to his guns
    How can he stick to his guns while breaking his promises?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If so Boris will definitely resign by the end of the month and lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal ticket against PM Clarke, Harman or whoever it ends up being asking for and agreeing a 2 year extension (Swinson and the 21 Tory rebels vetoing Corbyn as PM of course)
    Where is Boris's guaranteed majority you were so recently confident off
    Boris will have a 10%+ poll lead across the board within a month if he leads the Tories into opposition committed to deliver Brexit against a governing coalition of Labour, the LDs, SNP, Plaid, Greens and 21 anti No Deal Tories agreeing to a French demand to extend for 2 years rather than deliver the Brexit 17 million voted for
    I am afraid he won't.

    He and Cummings have overplayed their hand and, perveresely, has made brexit much less likely
    Wrong, he will.

    The Labour Leave vote will collapse to the Tories as will the Brexit Party vote if we end up with a Remain Alliance and Corbyn Labour government bowing to Macron and the French to thwart Brexit
    HYUFD.

    Brexit is being lost by Boris and Cummings errors, nothing more and no one else

    Both a disaster for our country and the one nation conservative party

    Boris is looking more like the 'Benny Hill' of politics daily, sad to say
    No, Brexit is being lost by the diehard Remainer traitors to democracy in Parliament, out in the country the backlash is only just beginning.

    As the Brexit Party proved in May against a divided Remain vote a Leave Party could win a majority of seats on just 32% of the vote and the Boris led Tory Party have now replaced Farage's Brexit Party as the main tool for Leaver anger
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Scott_P said:
    That won’t go down well with the SC when the hearing begins on 17th September .

    The government becomes more Trumpian by the day .
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:

    The only winner at the moment is Farage. The more delays there are, the more popular he becomes.

    No, the Brexit Party are polling about 10% lower than they were under May and the Tories about 10% higher and that will continue as long as Boris sticks to his guns
    How can he stick to his guns while breaking his promises?
    He isn't, he will stick to his promise of Brexit Deal or No Deal on October 31st and let the diehard Remainer traitors to democracy extend and lead the Tories into opposition
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If so Boris will definitely resign by the end of the month and lead the Tories into opposition on a Brexit with a Deal or No Deal ticket against PM Clarke, Harman or whoever it ends up being asking for and agreeing a 2 year extension (Swinson and the 21 Tory rebels vetoing Corbyn as PM of course)
    Where is Boris's guaranteed majority you were so recently confident off
    Boris will have a 10%+ poll lead across the board within a month if he leads the Tories into opposition committed to deliver Brexit against a governing coalition of Labour, the LDs, SNP, Plaid, Greens and 21 anti No Deal Tories agreeing to a French demand to extend for 2 years rather than deliver the Brexit 17 million voted for
    I am afraid he won't.

    He and Cummings have overplayed their hand and, perveresely, has made brexit much less likely
    Wrong, he will.

    The Labour Leave vote will collapse to the Tories as will the Brexit Party vote if we end up with a Remain Alliance and Corbyn Labour government bowing to Macron and the French to thwart Brexit
    HYUFD.

    Brexit is being lost by Boris and Cummings errors, nothing more and no one else

    Both a disaster for our country and the one nation conservative party

    Boris is looking more like the 'Benny Hill' of politics daily, sad to say
    No, Brexit is being lost by the diehard Remainer traitors to democracy in Parliament, out in the country the backlash is only just beginning.

    As the Brexit Party proved in May against a divided Remain vote a Leave Party could win a majority of seats on just 32% of the vote and the Boris led Tory Party have now replaced Farage's Brexit Party as the main tool for Leaver anger
    Leavers apparently voted for more democracy and more Parliamentary sovereignty !

    No point whining about it now .
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733

    Re: Homelessness. Here in small town Leaverstan it's been the defining event of the last few years. 1. The town centre park being slowly overwhelmed by street drinkers, drug dealing, drug use, rough sleeping etc. 2. The communal hallways of dozens of attractive social housing blocks being taken over as drug dealing locations and shooting galleries. 3. The number of people in front rank mental health crisis wandering the streets often begging or raiding bins.

    In terms of public squalor the consensus is the town has seen nothing like it since the last of the industrial slum clearences in the '30s.

    More in Leicester too, and even in places like Market Harborough. A lot are ex prisoners and the smack, spice, and alcohol habits makes for an unsettling time. a good number seem fairly straight though, just down on their luck. Nearly all are Brits.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    Fenster said:

    nico67 said:

    I can’t believe France wants this to drag on for a few more years .

    I’d take these suggestions with a pinch of salt .

    At most I think they might offer 6 months . This would allow an election , a new deal and ratification .

    What they don’t want is this drama every few months, so a longer extension makes sense from that perspective.
    Two years of the UK being a complete pain in the arse in EU meetings will be funny.
    That budget that needs approving? Nah......
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152
    edited September 2019
    Byronic said:

    Re: Homelessness. Here in small town Leaverstan it's been the defining event of the last few years. 1. The town centre park being slowly overwhelmed by street drinkers, drug dealing, drug use, rough sleeping etc. 2. The communal hallways of dozens of attractive social housing blocks being taken over as drug dealing locations and shooting galleries. 3. The number of people in front rank mental health crisis wandering the streets often begging or raiding bins.

    In terms of public squalor the consensus is the town has seen nothing like it since the last of the industrial slum clearences in the '30s.

    My wife did some work with the homeless in Leamington. One of the problems is that a lot of towns are very strict in enforcing vagrancy laws, so that homeless people are moved on to the next town and then the next one - until they all end up in London or other big cities. Leamington is less strict than other places, so has quite a few who have been moved on from places like Oxford. This was a big problem in the 1990s, too, if I remember right. Then government action significantly reduced it. Sadly, it is not currently a priority and has not been for a while.

    What REALLY strikes me about America, these days, is the poor quality of life in many cities compared to Asia and Europe.

    Like, you go to some midWest town with a gun problem, a drug problem, a race problem, a homeless problem, and a winter climate where it hits -30F. And you learn about the local Irish or Norwegian or Korean or German communities, and you think: sure, I can see why these people came here in the 19th century, but when they wake up now and look at the ice and the blood and the syringes, they must wish they were back in Dublin or Oslo or Seoul or Munich. where life is now a lot better.
    If you are rich in the US you are still wealthier and better offand likely earn more than almost anywhere in the developed world bar maybe Singapore, Australia or Switzerland.

    For middle income Americans or the poor though life is not easy
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:

    The only winner at the moment is Farage. The more delays there are, the more popular he becomes.

    No, the Brexit Party are polling about 10% lower than they were under May and the Tories about 10% higher and that will continue as long as Boris sticks to his guns
    How can he stick to his guns while breaking his promises?
    He isn't, he will stick to his promise of Brexit Deal or No Deal on October 31st and let the diehard Remainer traitors to democracy extend and lead the Tories into opposition
    You are losing it !
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:

    The only winner at the moment is Farage. The more delays there are, the more popular he becomes.

    No, the Brexit Party are polling about 10% lower than they were under May and the Tories about 10% higher and that will continue as long as Boris sticks to his guns
    How can he stick to his guns while breaking his promises?
    He isn't, he will stick to his promise of Brexit Deal or No Deal on October 31st and let the diehard Remainer traitors to democracy extend and lead the Tories into opposition
    Do you ever think how silly you look. Where has the sensible HYUFD gone ?
  • Re: Homelessness. Here in small town Leaverstan it's been the defining event of the last few years. 1. The town centre park being slowly overwhelmed by street drinkers, drug dealing, drug use, rough sleeping etc. 2. The communal hallways of dozens of attractive social housing blocks being taken over as drug dealing locations and shooting galleries. 3. The number of people in front rank mental health crisis wandering the streets often begging or raiding bins.

    In terms of public squalor the consensus is the town has seen nothing like it since the last of the industrial slum clearences in the '30s.

    My wife did some work with the homeless in Leamington. One of the problems is that a lot of towns are very strict in enforcing vagrancy laws, so that homeless people are moved on to the next town and then the next one - until they all end up in London or other big cities. Leamington is less strict than other places, so has quite a few who have been moved on from places like Oxford. This was a big problem in the 1990s, too, if I remember right. Then government action significantly reduced it. Sadly, it is not currently a priority and has not been for a while.

    Yes ! We've seen the more affluent/higher social capital parts of the county act fast and clear out their ' homeless/addicted ' populations to the ex industrial areas. Those ex industrial towns have then swapped those populations as panic induced crack downs happen. Our issue is we've no proper city to earth the problem and where proper services could be clustered. It's all buck passing.
  • .
    Scott_P said:
    What a fecking idiot Adam Boulton is, it is Attorneys General.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1171104774642720771

    Despite many assertions by HYUFD that this could not happen.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:

    The only winner at the moment is Farage. The more delays there are, the more popular he becomes.

    No, the Brexit Party are polling about 10% lower than they were under May and the Tories about 10% higher and that will continue as long as Boris sticks to his guns
    How can he stick to his guns while breaking his promises?
    He isn't, he will stick to his promise of Brexit Deal or No Deal on October 31st and let the diehard Remainer traitors to democracy extend and lead the Tories into opposition
    “...the diehard Remainer traitors to democracy...”
    You are beginning to sound like some weird parody of the 1970s Pravda.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    HYUFD said:

    Byronic said:

    Re: Homelessness. Here in small town Leaverstan it's been the defining event of the last few years. 1. The town centre park being slowly overwhelmed by street drinkers, drug dealing, drug use, rough sleeping etc. 2. The communal hallways of dozens of attractive social housing blocks being taken over as drug dealing locations and shooting galleries. 3. The number of people in front rank mental health crisis wandering the streets often begging or raiding bins.

    In terms of public squalor the consensus is the town has seen nothing like it since the last of the industrial slum clearences in the '30s.

    My wife did some work with the homeless in Leamington. One of the problems is that a lot of towns are very strict in enforcing vagrancy laws, so that homeless people are moved on to the next town and then the next one - until they all end up in London or other big cities. Leamington is less strict than other places, so has quite a few who have been moved on from places like Oxford. This was a big problem in the 1990s, too, if I remember right. Then government action significantly reduced it. Sadly, it is not currently a priority and has not been for a while.

    What REALLY strikes me about America, these days, is the poor quality of life in many cities compared to Asia and Europe.

    Like, you go to some midWest town with a gun problem, a drug problem, a race problem, a homeless problem, and a winter climate where it hits -30F. And you learn about the local Irish or Norwegian or Korean or German communities, and you think: sure, I can see why these people came here in the 19th century, but when they wake up now and look at the ice and the blood and the syringes, they must wish they were back in Dublin or Oslo or Seoul or Munich. where life is now a lot better.
    If you are rich in the US you are still wealthier and better off than almost anywhere in the developed world bar maybe Singapore, Australia or Switzerland.

    For middle income Americans or the poor though life is not easy
    That's what the stats say, but the reality is visibly different. Also Americans have to work so much harder than Europeans. The USA is still a great country for the enterprising but if you are just a modest middle manager I'd far rather be in Stuttgart than Chicago.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    edited September 2019
    Mr. Eagles, I was about to raise that. Reminds me of courts martial and Grands Prix.

    Edited extra bit: speaking of which, I had a quick look and, annoyingly, Ladbrokes has noticed the Red Bull will probably be tasty around the circuit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152
    edited September 2019
    30% of voters say Boris is most in tune with the public on Brexit to just 19% for MPs.

    58% of Leavers say Boris is most in tune but only 37% of Remainers say the same about MPs

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1171103490552344578?s=20
  • If these debates are that important, how come no fucker is there? They were all keen to slobber around Bercow though. They piss and moan about not being given time, but then they can't be arsed to take part!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    edited September 2019
    Swinson 8% more popular than Corbyn with Labour 2017 voters - no details though!

    https://order-order.com/2019/09/09/swinson-popular-corbyn-labour-2017-voters/
  • nico67 said:

    Scott_P said:
    That won’t go down well with the SC when the hearing begins on 17th September .

    The government becomes more Trumpian by the day .
    No. Grieve is abusing Parliamentary rules to pursue a personal crusade. Bercow - who now has nothing left to lose - is aiding and abetting in that.

    It is vital to any government for the advice of officials to remain private - that is not Trumpian, it is necessary and how things work.
  • Re the thread header: ' Private polling ' showing something different to public polling being leaked is one of the oldest tropes in the book. It's bollocks. There is no reason why publication status should alter what the data says and if it is then smell a rat.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    HYUFD said:

    Byronic said:

    Re: Homelessness. Here in small town Leaverstan it's been the defining event of the last few years. 1. The town centre park being slowly overwhelmed by street drinkers, drug dealing, drug use, rough sleeping etc. 2. The communal hallways of dozens of attractive social housing blocks being taken over as drug dealing locations and shooting galleries. 3. The number of people in front rank mental health crisis wandering the streets often begging or raiding bins.

    In terms of public squalor the consensus is the town has seen nothing like it since the last of the industrial slum clearences in the '30s.

    My wife did some work with the homeless in Leamington. One of the problems is that a lot of towns are very strict in enforcing vagrancy laws, so that homeless people are moved on to the next town and then the next one - until they all end up in London or other big cities. Leamington is less strict than other places, so has quite a few who have been moved on from places like Oxford. This was a big problem in the 1990s, too, if I remember right. Then government action significantly reduced it. Sadly, it is not currently a priority and has not been for a while.

    What REALLY strikes me about America, these days, is the poor quality of life in many cities compared to Asia and Europe.

    Like, you go to some midWest town with a gun problem, a drug problem, a race problem, a homeless problem, and a winter climate where it hits -30F. And you learn about the local Irish or Norwegian or Korean or German communities, and you think: sure, I can see why these people came here in the 19th century, but when they wake up now and look at the ice and the blood and the syringes, they must wish they were back in Dublin or Oslo or Seoul or Munich. where life is now a lot better.
    If you are rich in the US you are still wealthier and better offand likely earn more than almost anywhere in the developed world bar maybe Singapore, Australia or Switzerland.

    For middle income Americans or the poor though life is not easy
    Twas always thus for the poor in America. It’s the hollowing out of the middle that’s the scary change.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    .

    Scott_P said:
    What a fecking idiot Adam Boulton is, it is Attorneys General.
    It is Generalised Attorneys.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    edited September 2019

    nico67 said:

    Scott_P said:
    That won’t go down well with the SC when the hearing begins on 17th September .

    The government becomes more Trumpian by the day .
    No. Grieve is abusing Parliamentary rules to pursue a personal crusade. Bercow - who now has nothing left to lose - is aiding and abetting in that.

    It is vital to any government for the advice of officials to remain private - that is not Trumpian, it is necessary and how things work.
    The government started all this with their disgraceful behaviour ! The government is getting what it deserves, if the advisers don’t like it they should blame the corrupt cabal in no 10 for putting them in this position .
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    Aha! That fucks us. This was always implicit in the Surrender Bill.

    EEEEEK
    It’s Brexit’s best chance. Leavers need a complete rethink about what they want. This gives them the time and space to have that.
    You and I both know that a 2 year delay to Brexit will kill Brexit. Maybe it's for the best. But I fear for our democratic future if this happens. And do the French REALLY want a bitterly divided, angry, snarling Britain still inside the EU?!
    Five and a half years!! 🤣🤣
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    My moneys on Liz Kendall. What’s her odds?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733

    Fenster said:

    nico67 said:

    I can’t believe France wants this to drag on for a few more years .

    I’d take these suggestions with a pinch of salt .

    At most I think they might offer 6 months . This would allow an election , a new deal and ratification .

    What they don’t want is this drama every few months, so a longer extension makes sense from that perspective.
    Two years of the UK being a complete pain in the arse in EU meetings will be funny.
    That budget that needs approving? Nah......
    I suspect PM Jezza will happily approve.

    Once Bozo implodes, the EU need fear little.
  • Byronic said:

    Re: Homelessness. Here in small town Leaverstan it's been the defining event of the last few years. 1. The town centre park being slowly overwhelmed by street drinkers, drug dealing, drug use, rough sleeping etc. 2. The communal hallways of dozens of attractive social housing blocks being taken over as drug dealing locations and shooting galleries. 3. The number of people in front rank mental health crisis wandering the streets often begging or raiding bins.

    In terms of public squalor the consensus is the town has seen nothing like it since the last of the industrial slum clearences in the '30s.

    My wife did some work with the homeless in Leamington. One of the problems is that a lot of towns are very strict in enforcing vagrancy laws, so that homeless people are moved on to the next town and then the next one - until they all end up in London or other big cities. Leamington is less strict than other places, so has quite a few who have been moved on from places like Oxford. This was a big problem in the 1990s, too, if I remember right. Then government action significantly reduced it. Sadly, it is not currently a priority and has not been for a while.

    What REALLY strikes me about America, these days, is the poor quality of life in many cities compared to Asia and Europe.

    Like, you go to some midWest town with a gun problem, a drug problem, a race problem, a homeless problem, and a winter climate where it hits -30F. And you learn about the local Irish or Norwegian or Korean or German communities, and you think: sure, I can see why these people came here in the 19th century, but when they wake up now and look at the ice and the blood and the syringes, they must wish they were back in Dublin or Oslo or Seoul or Munich. where life is now a lot better.

    There are so many miserable, forgotten places in the US - all they offer is grinding, relentless, nothingness, so no wonder so many end up having huge drug problems and the crime that goes with that, as well as chronic levels of obesity. What else is there to do except get high and eat? There are a few cities I enjoy going to - and the open country is extraordinary - but to live? Not a chance - except, perhaps, the far north-east. With the exception of Japan, I don't know about Asia either - the pollution in so many places is horrible and the work/life balance is horrific, Korea perhaps most of all. Hong Kong used to be fantastic, but not so much these days. Of the places I have visited, western Europe, Canada and maybe New Zealand seem to have got it most right. But we think we haven't.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    rcs1000 said:

    Interesting timing. Can't see Boris recommnding Bercow for a peerage.....

    Well, he kind of has to, otherwise Bercow remains an MP.
    rcs1000 said:

    Interesting timing. Can't see Boris recommnding Bercow for a peerage.....

    Well, he kind of has to, otherwise Bercow remains an MP.
    No he doesn't. It's only a convention. And Bercow might not wish to be a Crossbench peer.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    Why would driving backwards a high speed make for a good political ad ?
    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/460531-valerie-plame-shows-off-cia-driving-in-new-campaign-ad
  • Plans can change.

    I'm not Corbyn's greatest fan, but this seems rather lame. It's not as if there isn't a lot going on today ...
  • This is interesting for those of us who go on regular business trips.

    A man who died after having sex with a woman he met on a working trip was the victim of a professional accident and his employer is responsible, a French court has ruled.

    The decision by appeal court judges in Paris stretches further the concept of workplace accident in a country that gives generous compensation to dependants of staff who die on the job.

    Xavier X, whose surname was not released, was a technician working in the Loiret département in central France, on assignment for his employer, TSO, a railway construction company based in an eastern Paris suburb. On a February night in 2013 he was found dead with heart failure in his hotel room in Meung-sur-Loire shortly after having sex with a local woman whom he had just met.

    The labour authorities declared Xavier’s death to be an accident du travail, a classification that entitles the victim’s family to benefits including long-term compensation paid by the state and in many cases by the employer. Their partners and children receive a monthly benefit of up to 80 per cent of their salary until what would have been their retirement age and then a share of his or her pension. Xavier’s employer contested the decision but lost at all stages.

    “A sexual encounter is an act of normal life like taking a shower or eating a meal,” said the 2016 lower court ruling that was upheld by the appeal court in May. When the ruling was reported this month it was met with mockery on social media and criticism from some labour professionals. People wondered online whether Félix Faure, a president who died while having sex with a mistress in the Élysée palace in 1899, would now be decreed a victim of an accident du travail.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/employer-held-liable-for-workers-death-after-sex-9nflwtptg
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    The government better not try and change the Yellowhammer report .

    They’ve already given a copy to the Welsh government . Even though covered by the Official Secrets Act I’m sure someone in the office there would be quite happy to leak it .
  • Mr. Eagles, I was about to raise that. Reminds me of courts martial and Grands Prix.

    Edited extra bit: speaking of which, I had a quick look and, annoyingly, Ladbrokes has noticed the Red Bull will probably be tasty around the circuit.

    Mr Dancer,

    I don't know if you've seen it yet, but it seems as though some Danish Citroen drivers tried to recreate the Blues Brothers this weekend:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ktf_RMvEsg

    (It looks as though everyone was okay, thankfully and rather amazingly.)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    I don't often watch parliament on TV but watched the Speaker's announcement in case he said anything market-moving. The thing that struck me was how confident and relaxed Corbyn seemed during his tribute. He's really up for the forthcoming election and might well give the Conservatives another fright. He'd wipe the floor with Johnson in any debate.

    He's better at simple messages and appearing to be clear in what he means. Boris is more entertaining, but a bit exhausting to follow and confusing.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Byronic said:

    Re: Homelessness. Here in small town Leaverstan it's been the defining event of the last few years. 1. The town centre park being slowly overwhelmed by street drinkers, drug dealing, drug use, rough sleeping etc. 2. The communal hallways of dozens of attractive social housing blocks being taken over as drug dealing locations and shooting galleries. 3. The number of people in front rank mental health crisis wandering the streets often begging or raiding bins.

    In terms of public squalor the consensus is the town has seen nothing like it since the last of the industrial slum clearences in the '30s.

    My wife did some work with the homeless in Leamington. One of the problems is that a lot of towns are very strict in enforcing vagrancy laws, so that homeless people are moved on to the next town and then the next one - until they all end up in London or other big cities. Leamington is less strict than other places, so has quite a few who have been moved on from places like Oxford. This was a big problem in the 1990s, too, if I remember right. Then government action significantly reduced it. Sadly, it is not currently a priority and has not been for a while.

    What

    There are so many miserable, forgotten places in the US - all they offer is grinding, relentless, nothingness, so no wonder so many end up having huge drug problems and the crime that goes with that, as well as chronic levels of obesity. What else is there to do except get high and eat? There are a few cities I enjoy going to - and the open country is extraordinary - but to live? Not a chance - except, perhaps, the far north-east. With the exception of Japan, I don't know about Asia either - the pollution in so many places is horrible and the work/life balance is horrific, Korea perhaps most of all. Hong Kong used to be fantastic, but not so much these days. Of the places I have visited, western Europe, Canada and maybe New Zealand seem to have got it most right. But we think we haven't.
    You used to be much more positive about America, it's a noticeable change.

    Everything you say is right, except the Asian thing. Life in east Asia for many people has got so much better. Korea can be amazing (and it has brilliant food). Taiwan is very very prosperous (yes there are threats, but still). Even poorer places like Malaysia are possibly nicer to live in than rust belt America.

    This is sad for America, it is also worrying for Britain, as we seem to be following their example, from the obesity to the opioid problem. At least we haven't got the guns.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Scott_P said:
    He could at least pretend he is not desperately hoping this to be the case.
  • Scott_P said:
    Hm, maybe. Rather optimistic in current circumstances to assume that no No 10 staff will have a falling out and depart in high dudgeon over the next few weeks.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Plans can change.

    I'm not Corbyn's greatest fan, but this seems rather lame. It's not as if there isn't a lot going on today ...
    In any case what will they do to him if he pisses them off? Grumble as they makehim PM?
  • People wondered online whether Félix Faure, a president who died while having sex with a mistress in the Élysée palace in 1899, would now be decreed a victim of an accident du travail.

    Inspiring one of the most well-known French puns: "Il voulait être César, il ne fut que Pompée."
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733

    Byronic said:

    Re: Homelessness. Here in small town Leaverstan it's been the defining event of the last few years. 1. The town centre park being slowly overwhelmed by street drinkers, drug dealing, drug use, rough sleeping etc. 2. The communal hallways of dozens of attractive social housing blocks being taken over as drug dealing locations and shooting galleries. 3. The number of people in front rank mental health crisis wandering the streets often begging or raiding bins.

    In terms of public squalor the consensus is the town has seen nothing like it since the last of the industrial slum clearences in the '30s.

    My wife did some work with the homeless in Leamington. One of the problems is that a lot of towns are very strict in enforcing vagrancy laws, so that homeless people are moved on to the next town and then the next one - until they all end up in London or other big cities. Leamington is less strict than other places, so has quite a few who have been moved on from places like Oxford. This was a big problem in the 1990s, too, if I remember right. Then government action significantly reduced it. Sadly, it is not currently a priority and has not been for a while.

    What REALLY strikes me about America, these days, is the poor quality of life in many cities compared to Asia and Europe.

    Like, you go to some midWest town with a gun problem, a drug problem, a race problem, a homeless problem, and a winter climate where it hits -30F. And you learn about the local Irish or Norwegian or Korean or German communities, and you think: sure, I can see why these people came here in the 19th century, but when they wake up now and look at the ice and the blood and the syringes, they must wish they were back in Dublin or Oslo or Seoul or Munich. where life is now a lot better.

    There are so many miserable, forgotten places in the US - all they offer is grinding, relentless, nothingness, so no wonder so many end up having huge drug problems and the crime that goes with that, as well as chronic levels of obesity. What else is there to do except get high and eat? There are a few cities I enjoy going to - and the open country is extraordinary - but to live? Not a chance - except, perhaps, the far north-east. With the exception of Japan, I don't know about Asia either - the pollution in so many places is horrible and the work/life balance is horrific, Korea perhaps most of all. Hong Kong used to be fantastic, but not so much these days. Of the places I have visited, western Europe, Canada and maybe New Zealand seem to have got it most right. But we think we haven't.
    It depends where you go in NZ.

    Timaru, Invercargill, Granity, or Palmerston North are as bad as any small town in the US.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited September 2019
    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    Re: Homelessness. Here in small town Leaverstan it's been the defining event of the last few years. 1. The town centre park being slowly overwhelmed by street drinkers, drug dealing, drug use, rough sleeping etc. 2. The communal hallways of dozens of attractive social housing blocks being taken over as drug dealing locations and shooting galleries. 3. The number of people in front rank mental health crisis wandering the streets often begging or raiding bins.

    In terms of public squalor the consensus is the town has seen nothing like it since the last of the industrial slum clearences in the '30s.

    My wife did some work with the homeless in Leamington. One of the problems is that a lot of towns are very strict in enforcing vagrancy laws, so that homeless people are moved on to the next town and then the next one - until they all end up in London or other big cities. Leamington is less strict than other places, so has quite a few who have been moved on from places like Oxford. This was a big problem in the 1990s, too, if I remember right. Then government action significantly reduced it. Sadly, it is not currently a priority and has not been for a while.

    What

    There are so many miserable, forgotten places in the US - all they offer is grinding, relentless, nothingness, so no wonder so many end up having huge drug problems and the crime that goes with that, as well as chronic levels of obesity. What else is there to do except get high and eat? There are a few cities I enjoy going to - and the open country is extraordinary - but to live? Not a chance - except, perhaps, the far north-east. With the exception of Japan, I don't know about Asia either - the pollution in so many places is horrible and the work/life balance is horrific, Korea perhaps most of all. Hong Kong used to be fantastic, but not so much these days. Of the places I have visited, western Europe, Canada and maybe New Zealand seem to have got it most right. But we think we haven't.
    You used to be much more positive about America, it's a noticeable change.

    Everything you say is right, except the Asian thing. Life in east Asia for many people has got so much better. Korea can be amazing (and it has brilliant food). Taiwan is very very prosperous (yes there are threats, but still). Even poorer places like Malaysia are possibly nicer to live in than rust belt America.

    This is sad for America, it is also worrying for Britain, as we seem to be following their example, from the obesity to the opioid problem. At least we haven't got the guns.

    Brexit is, in many respects, in terms of its founders and origins, an attempt to be nearer the US.
  • isam said:
    A great example of:


  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    This is interesting for those of us who go on regular business trips.

    A man who died after having sex with a woman he met on a working trip was the victim of a professional accident and his employer is responsible, a French court has ruled.

    The decision by appeal court judges in Paris stretches further the concept of workplace accident in a country that gives generous compensation to dependants of staff who die on the job.

    Xavier X, whose surname was not released, was a technician working in the Loiret département in central France, on assignment for his employer, TSO, a railway construction company based in an eastern Paris suburb. On a February night in 2013 he was found dead with heart failure in his hotel room in Meung-sur-Loire shortly after having sex with a local woman whom he had just met.

    The labour authorities declared Xavier’s death to be an accident du travail, a classification that entitles the victim’s family to benefits including long-term compensation paid by the state and in many cases by the employer. Their partners and children receive a monthly benefit of up to 80 per cent of their salary until what would have been their retirement age and then a share of his or her pension. Xavier’s employer contested the decision but lost at all stages.

    “A sexual encounter is an act of normal life like taking a shower or eating a meal,” said the 2016 lower court ruling that was upheld by the appeal court in May. When the ruling was reported this month it was met with mockery on social media and criticism from some labour professionals. People wondered online whether Félix Faure, a president who died while having sex with a mistress in the Élysée palace in 1899, would now be decreed a victim of an accident du travail.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/employer-held-liable-for-workers-death-after-sex-9nflwtptg

    "staff who die on the job". Arf!
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    edited September 2019
    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    Re: Homelessness. Here in small town Leaverstan it's been the defining event of the last few years. 1. The town centre park being slowly overwhelmed by street drinkers, drug dealing, drug use, rough sleeping etc. 2. The communal hallways of dozens of attractive social housing blocks being taken over as drug dealing locations and shooting galleries. 3. The number of people in front rank mental health crisis wandering the streets often begging or raiding bins.

    In terms of public squalor the consensus is the town has seen nothing like it since the last of the industrial slum clearences in the '30s.

    My wife did some work with the homeless in Leamington. One of the problems is that a lot of towns are very strict in enforcing vagrancy laws, so that homeless people are moved on to the next town and then the next one - until they all end up in London or other big cities. Leamington is less strict than other places, so has quite a few who have been moved on from places like Oxford. This was a big problem in the 1990s, too, if I remember right. Then government action significantly reduced it. Sadly, it is not currently a priority and has not been for a while.

    What

    There awestern Europe, Canada and maybe New Zealand seem to have got it most right. But we think we haven't.
    You used to be much more positive about America, it's a noticeable change.

    Everything you say is right, except the Asian thing. Life in east Asia for many people has got so much better. Korea can be amazing (and it has brilliant food). Taiwan is very very prosperous (yes there are threats, but still). Even poorer places like Malaysia are possibly nicer to live in than rust belt America.

    This is sad for America, it is also worrying for Britain, as we seem to be following their example, from the obesity to the opioid problem. At least we haven't got the guns.

    Taiwan is great - that is true. Korea I have only seen for work and so have undoubtedly missed an absolute ton. I am banned from Malaysia. It's a long story!

    As for the US, it has lost - very quickly - a lot of what used to make it so dynamic. People there seem to be incredibly pessimistic about the future. And the US without optimism is no longer the US. The division there is so deep that it looks unhealable. Maybe we'll be saying that about here if both the Tories and Labour continue on their current trajectories and nothing emerges to replace them, but currently I am still telling myself this is a spasm, rather than your revolution (though I do think the Union is alsmost certainly done for).

  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited September 2019
    Sooo, Hoyle odds-on? Would be 4th Labour speaker in a row, and if he lasted say 8 years that'd be 35 years straight.

    Seems to be getting a good reception though (and probably rightly so).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    Re the thread header: ' Private polling ' showing something different to public polling being leaked is one of the oldest tropes in the book. It's bollocks. There is no reason why publication status should alter what the data says and if it is then smell a rat.

    And presumably Labour's private polling is telling them "Don't. Fucking. Think. About. An. Election....."
  • AndyJS said:
    He's a very decent man, and very down to earth. He'd be a good contrast with Bercow, who tends towards pomposity.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    Foxy said:


    It depends where you go in NZ.

    Timaru, Invercargill, Granity, or Palmerston North are as bad as any small town in the US.

    Invercargill really does feel like Fin Del Mundo. Even though that is Ushuaia's claim to fame.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Andrew said:

    Sooo, Hoyle odds-on? Would be 4th Labour speaker in a row, and if he lasted say 8 years that'd be 35 years straight.

    Seems to be getting a good reception though (and probably rightly so).

    Bercow was a tory
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    Andrew said:

    Sooo, Hoyle odds-on? Would be 4th Labour speaker in a row, and if he lasted say 8 years that'd be 35 years straight.

    Seems to be getting a good reception though (and probably rightly so).

    Bercow technically isn't a Labour speaker - although he wasn't the choice of right wing Conservative MPs.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Realistically if this motion passes and there's a smoking gun that prorogation was intended to prevent MPs stopping no deal, what would the consequence be?
  • #bringbackBetty
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900

    This is interesting for those of us who go on regular business trips.

    A man who died after having sex with a woman he met on a working trip was the victim of a professional accident and his employer is responsible, a French court has ruled.


    Businessmen across France already trying to figure out how they can put it on expenses ……….
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited September 2019
    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    Re: Homelessness. Here in small town Leaverstan it's been the defining event of the last few years. 1. The town centre park being slowly overwhelmed by street drinkers, drug dealing, drug use, rough sleeping etc. 2. The communal hallways of dozens of attractive social housing blocks being taken over as drug dealing locations and shooting galleries. 3. The number of people in front rank mental health crisis wandering the streets often begging or raiding bins.

    In terms of public squalor the consensus is the town has seen nothing like it since the last of the industrial slum clearences in the '30s.

    My wife did some work with the homeless in Leamington. One of the problems is that a lot of towns are very strict in enforcing vagrancy laws, so that homeless people are moved on to the next town and then the next one - until they all end up in London or other big cities. Leamington is less strict than other places, so has quite a few who have been moved on from places like Oxford. This was a big problem in the 1990s, too, if I remember right. Then government action significantly reduced it. Sadly, it is not currently a priority and has not been for a while.

    What

    Of the places I have visited, western Europe, Canada and maybe New Zealand seem to have got it most right. But we think we haven't.
    You used to be much more positive about America, it's a noticeable change.

    Everything you say is right, except the Asian thing. Life in east Asia for many people has got so much better. Korea can be amazing (and it has brilliant food). Taiwan is very very prosperous (yes there are threats, but still). Even poorer places like Malaysia are possibly nicer to live in than rust belt America.

    This is sad for America, it is also worrying for Britain, as we seem to be following their example, from the obesity to the opioid problem. At least we haven't got the guns.

    Did you see this?

    "500,000 Britons hooked on opioids
    The true number of Britons hooked on dangerously addictive painkillers has been revealed for the first time, with prescription opioids doled out to 5m people a year — or one in eight of the adult population."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/500-000-britons-hooked-on-opioids-72h3whkg0
  • Foxy said:

    Byronic said:

    Re: Homelessness. Here in small town Leaverstan it's been the defining event of the last few years. 1. The town centre park being slowly overwhelmed by street drinkers, drug dealing, drug use, rough sleeping etc. 2. The communal hallways of dozens of attractive social housing blocks being taken over as drug dealing locations and shooting galleries. 3. The number of people in front rank mental health crisis wandering the streets often begging or raiding bins.

    In terms of public squalor the consensus is the town has seen nothing like it since the last of the industrial slum clearences in the '30s.

    My wife did some work with the homeless in Leamington. One of the problems is that a lot of towns are very strict in enforcing vagrancy laws, so that homeless people are moved on to the next town and then the next one - until they all end up in London or other big cities. Leamington is less strict than other places, so has quite a few who have been moved on from places like Oxford. This was a big problem in the 1990s, too, if I remember right. Then government action significantly reduced it. Sadly, it is not currently a priority and has not been for a while.

    What REALLY strikes me about America, these days, is the poor quality of life in many cities compared to Asia and Europe.

    Like, where life is now a lot better.

    There are so many miserable, forgotten places in the US - all they offer is grinding, relentless, nothingness, so no wonder so many end up having huge drug problems and the crime that goes with that, as well as chronic levels of obesity. What else is there to do except get high and eat? There are a few cities I enjoy going to - and the open country is extraordinary - but to live? Not a chance - except, perhaps, the far north-east. With the exception of Japan, I don't know about Asia either - the pollution in so many places is horrible and the work/life balance is horrific, Korea perhaps most of all. Hong Kong used to be fantastic, but not so much these days. Of the places I have visited, western Europe, Canada and maybe New Zealand seem to have got it most right. But we think we haven't.
    It depends where you go in NZ.

    Timaru, Invercargill, Granity, or Palmerston North are as bad as any small town in the US.

    Fair - the West Coast towns of the South Island are pretty bleak places. I passed through Greymouth and Westport and could not wait to get out!

  • Byronic said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Byronic said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:
    In Central London you can see homeless heroin addicts shooting up in doorways. I'm not sure we're that mucg better.
    We're not great. but we are very much better than the USA. San Francisco has times the number of homeless, per capita, compared to London.
    California, though, attracts the homeless from all over America. Would you rather sleep on the streets of San Diego or Boise, Idaho?
    Yet apparently (I've not been north of California recently) the homelessness is spread across the West Coast. It's also bad in Portland, and likewise Seattle (whose climate is very similar to London)

    And you missed Venice Beach on your list of LA disaster zones. I was there a few months back and Fuck me, it's edgy. It borders on dystopian. Urban America is in serious trouble.

    We did an event in Seattle a couple of years back and had homeless people wandering into it off the streets. I was not there, but colleagues say it is a pitiful place. I can't imagine anyhting is as bad as San Francisco, though. As I said before, it's the worst, the bleakest and most abject homlessness I have seen outside of India. It is genuinely jaw-dropping.

    I went to Seattle with my wife last year. She wanted to go because of Frasier, Sleepless in Seattle... that sort of thing.

    We’d come from Calgary and Vancouver where there aren’t *no* people on the streets, but at a low level comparable to any UK major town or city. And it was otherwise fine, clean and neat.

    Seattle was like the Walking Dead. And the whole place looked tired, decaying and moribund. Hundreds (and i mean hundreds) of people chattering away to themselves, shaking with health issues, or pissed, wandering about with shopping trolleys of their possessions.

    Absolute shithole. And for the first time in my life it made me feel vaguely Left-Wing.

    I hated it for that alone!
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