Oh the outrage, the humanity, he used the phrase girly! The woke generation are screaming to the sky and weeping wounded tears at the horrors of it all It really didn't require an intervention Jo, fauxrage is not a vote winner
The woke generation are also locking girls out of school and calling the police on them because they want to wear skirts.
Putinist klaxon. The aim here -- which you /appear/ to be buying into -- is to portray a fascist politics as a politics of innocence, by stoking psychosexual fears in the general population. In Russia, the process is mediated through the image of western politics being inherently homosexual, but since homophobia is dying in the west, different targets are chosen. So a mixture of the "great replacement" nonsense that Orban was rambling on about has been doing the rounds the last few years, and now we're moving onto the kind of stuff you're bringing up.
It's Bannonist shite, designed to turn people to the path of fear and hatred, and to smuggle in a fascist ideology. See also Putin, Zaldostanov, Bannon, Manafort.
Convention is VONC leads to a General Election. FTPA just adds a 14 day cooling off period to that.
I refer you to the relevant para of the Government Cabinet Manual :
"Under the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011, if a government is defeated on a motion that ‘this House has no confidence in Her Majesty’s Government’, there is then a 14-day period during which an alternative government can be formed from the House of Commons as presently constituted, or the incumbent government can seek to regain the confidence of the House. If no government can secure the confidence of the House of Commons during that period, through the approval of a motion that ‘this House has confidence in Her Majesty’s Government’, a general election will take place."
Who decides which VoC will be accepted for a vote ? Can anybody put up a motion ?
The LotO has precedence in tabling a VoNC. The LibDems attempted some months back and the Speaker refused the motion. The government could use their own time to VoNC themselves should the Speaker determine the motion was in order.
Thanks, Jack. But I was talking about a VoC. Can anyone submit a motion ?
Callaghan submitted VoC in his own government twice.
OK. I need to be more explicit. How does Corbyn or anyone else go about proving that they have the numbers after Johnson has been VoNCed ? There has to be a vote , surely. So, who moves the motion ?
Oh the outrage, the humanity, he used the phrase girly! The woke generation are screaming to the sky and weeping wounded tears at the horrors of it all It really didn't require an intervention Jo, fauxrage is not a vote winner
The woke generation are also locking girls out of school and calling the police on them because they want to wear skirts.
To be honest, Boris will have better luck turning his guns that way than trying to out Farage Farage on No Deal. Particularly in the midlands and the north.
But it needs to be done with a little bit of tact. Being an absolute dick about it will also lose him votes.
FTPA geeks - re: my last couple of exchanges with Big G.
Do you agree Boris has "14 days protection" from the FTPA?
It looks to me as if that's just the deadline for him or anyone reconstituting an administration before an election's called (ie *anyone* can seek confidence in that period and end the process).
As dyedwoolie said, prorogation may make the point moot anyway.. but it would be interesting to know how swiftly a subsequent VOC could happen in practice.
Boris will give notice that Parliament is prorogued at the end of the VONC.
Prorogation does not prevent the Queen appointing a new Prime Minister.
But under FTPA A-Nother has got the demonstrate they can command the confidence of the House within 14 days... Which they won't be able to do as Parliament is prorogued beyond 14 days?
Oh the outrage, the humanity, he used the phrase girly! The woke generation are screaming to the sky and weeping wounded tears at the horrors of it all It really didn't require an intervention Jo, fauxrage is not a vote winner
The woke generation are also locking girls out of school and calling the police on them because they want to wear skirts.
Putinist klaxon. The aim here -- which you /appear/ to be buying into -- is to portray a fascist politics as a politics of innocence, by stoking psychosexual fears in the general population. In Russia, the process is mediated through the image of western politics being inherently homosexual, but since homophobia is dying in the west, different targets are chosen. So a mixture of the "great replacement" nonsense that Orban was rambling on about has been doing the rounds the last few years, and now we're moving onto the kind of stuff you're bringing up.
It's Bannonist shite, designed to turn people to the path of fear and hatred, and to smuggle in a fascist ideology. See also Putin, Zaldostanov, Bannon, Manafort.
There's lots of (paranoid) words there, but no addressing of the issue.
Why can't these girls wear skirts in school? Politically correct dogma. Simple as that.
Convention is VONC leads to a General Election. FTPA just adds a 14 day cooling off period to that.
I refer you to the relevant para of the Government Cabinet Manual :
"Under the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011, if a government is defeated on a motion that ‘this House has no confidence in Her Majesty’s Government’, there is then a 14-day period during which an alternative government can be formed from the House of Commons as presently constituted, or the incumbent government can seek to regain the confidence of the House. If no government can secure the confidence of the House of Commons during that period, through the approval of a motion that ‘this House has confidence in Her Majesty’s Government’, a general election will take place."
That backs what I said. If no alternative government is found that can secure confidence of the house then election.
The point being that the Opposition has the scope and numbers to advise the Queen through channels that AN OTHER has the prospect of confidence and will seek the approval of the HoC and thus prevent Boris from having his general election in October which is what the Opposition desire.
I think the method if Boris doesn't tell the Queen to ask for Corbyn is soundings. Get your people to talk to relevant Privy Counsellors, to Jo, to Ken, to Mr Speaker. I'm not sure how such advice to the Queen is collated and finalised, but my understanding is there are methods, ex-Boris, to decide this.
Correct. The Private Secretary to the Queen takes soundings and advice from senior members of the Privy Council.
Also worth noting that Prorogation during the 14 days is a non starter as the Cabinet Manual states :
"While the government retains its responsibility to govern and ministers remain in charge of their departments, governments are expected by convention to observe discretion in initiating any new action of a continuing or long-term character in the period immediately preceding an election, immediately afterwards if the result is unclear, and following the loss of a vote of confidence. In all three circumstances essential business must be allowed to continue."
Is Boris still intending to force the Queen to reopen parliament after the prorogation?
Sorry, it was a bit of a silly question, but my point is that since there'll be a GE almost immediately afterwards, a Queen's Speech seems like an insulting waste of her time.
Leader of Plaid a disaster for the 'Remain Alliance' on the 6pm News - "we want to break Boris and end Brexit". Not even pretending this is about preventing No Deal.
But under FTPA A-Nother has got the demonstrate they can command the confidence of the House within 14 days... Which they won't be able to do as Parliament is prorogued beyond 14 days?
Leader of Plaid a disaster for the 'Remain Alliance' on the 6pm News - "we want to break Boris and end Brexit". Not even pretending this is about preventing No Deal.
I don't think Boris will break the law, but he's not going to extend either. So it's either resignation or some other cunning plan that no-one has thought of.
Where is Baldrick ?
We wait until our heads have actually been cut off.
Leader of Plaid a disaster for the 'Remain Alliance' on the 6pm News - "we want to break Boris and end Brexit". Not even pretending this is about preventing No Deal.
So someone from the Remain Alliance wants to stop Brexit . Who would have thought !
Oh the outrage, the humanity, he used the phrase girly! The woke generation are screaming to the sky and weeping wounded tears at the horrors of it all It really didn't require an intervention Jo, fauxrage is not a vote winner
The woke generation are also locking girls out of school and calling the police on them because they want to wear skirts.
Putinist klaxon. The aim here -- which you /appear/ to be buying into -- is to portray a fascist politics as a politics of innocence, by stoking psychosexual fears in the general population. In Russia, the process is mediated through the image of western politics being inherently homosexual, but since homophobia is dying in the west, different targets are chosen. So a mixture of the "great replacement" nonsense that Orban was rambling on about has been doing the rounds the last few years, and now we're moving onto the kind of stuff you're bringing up.
It's Bannonist shite, designed to turn people to the path of fear and hatred, and to smuggle in a fascist ideology. See also Putin, Zaldostanov, Bannon, Manafort.
There's lots of (paranoid) words there, but no addressing of the issue.
Why can't these girls wear skirts in school? Politically correct dogma. Simple as that.
I don't give a fuck about having conversation about skirts. I'm talking about the "culture war" crap.
There is nothing paranoid about identifying the fascism at the heart of the Russian state, it is well documented. Putin himself says his favourite "philosopher" is Ivan Ilyin, and the Russian state has funded and supported fascist parties in Europe.
Leader of Plaid a disaster for the 'Remain Alliance' on the 6pm News - "we want to break Boris and end Brexit". Not even pretending this is about preventing No Deal.
Why ? That's exactly what we want. Stop Brexit , then referendum or revoke. Simple.
Oh the outrage, the humanity, he used the phrase girly! The woke generation are screaming to the sky and weeping wounded tears at the horrors of it all It really didn't require an intervention Jo, fauxrage is not a vote winner
The woke generation are also locking girls out of school and calling the police on them because they want to wear skirts.
Er, what? This is about kids wearing skirts and shorts too high, which the school chose to tackle by making it trousers-only. Similar to that case a while back where the boys started wearing skirts as a protest, except in this case they're being even-handed instead of unfairly only targeting boys.
In both cases silly, they should let the kids wear skirts and shorts. But a front in the culture war? Not seeing it.
Leader of Plaid a disaster for the 'Remain Alliance' on the 6pm News - "we want to break Boris and end Brexit". Not even pretending this is about preventing No Deal.
So someone from the Remain Alliance wants to stop Brexit . Who would have thought !
You know what I mean - these people are trying to operate under the cover of blocking No Deal. The leader of Plaid saying the aim of their moves is to bin Brexit completely somewhat undermines that pretence.
Love it. On Rees Mogg: "He is an absolute fraud, he is a living example of what a moderately cut double-breasted suit and a decent tie can do with an ultra-posh voice and a bit of ginger stuck up his arse. You do not behave like that as leader of the House.” Both men went to Eton but Sir Nicholas says Rees-Mogg’s behaviour has nothing to do with his school. “I thought it was bloody bad manners and he of all people should know better. He has had all the advantages and frankly nanny made a serious bish. I wanted to kick him firmly in the arse and say, ‘What the hell do you think you are playing at? Sit up!’ ” His speech in the Brexit debate was “the lowest form of student union hackery, insolence and bad manners”.
I love how Nick Soames is now being heralded by the left as some paragon of virtue, when in the past they have viewed him with contempt as a bed-blocker with old-fashioned views. His name isn't mentioned now without "grandson of Winston Churchill" added on the end. A distinctly average politician, regardless of who his grandfather was.
I am not "of the left" you plonker. I am a former constituency party chairman of the once great Conservative Party. That was before it was taken over by hoodlums liars and nutters
Love it. On Rees Mogg: "He is an absolute fraud, he is a living example of what a moderately cut double-breasted suit and a decent tie can do with an ultra-posh voice and a bit of ginger stuck up his arse. You do not behave like that as leader of the House.” Both men went to Eton but Sir Nicholas says Rees-Mogg’s behaviour has nothing to do with his school. “I thought it was bloody bad manners and he of all people should know better. He has had all the advantages and frankly nanny made a serious bish. I wanted to kick him firmly in the arse and say, ‘What the hell do you think you are playing at? Sit up!’ ” His speech in the Brexit debate was “the lowest form of student union hackery, insolence and bad manners”.
I love how Nick Soames is now being heralded by the left as some paragon of virtue, when in the past they have viewed him with contempt as a bed-blocker with old-fashioned views. His name isn't mentioned now without "grandson of Winston Churchill" added on the end. A distinctly average politician, regardless of who his grandfather was.
I am not "of the left" you plonker. I am a former constituency party chairman of the once great Conservative Party. That was before it was taken over by hoodlums liars and nutters
I bet the party is gutted it has lost you....
But in all seriousness, I wasn't calling you "of the left", you plonker, I was talking about the left commentariat including the Guardian, in which Soames was interviewed.
Leader of Plaid a disaster for the 'Remain Alliance' on the 6pm News - "we want to break Boris and end Brexit". Not even pretending this is about preventing No Deal.
So someone from the Remain Alliance wants to stop Brexit . Who would have thought !
You know what I mean - these people are trying to operate under the cover of blocking No Deal. The leader of Plaid saying the aim of their moves is to bin Brexit completely somewhat undermines that pretence.
There’s lots of pretence from every quarter . If it was Corbyn saying this then yes it would be a bad move .
Leader of Plaid a disaster for the 'Remain Alliance' on the 6pm News - "we want to break Boris and end Brexit". Not even pretending this is about preventing No Deal.
So someone from the Remain Alliance wants to stop Brexit . Who would have thought !
You know what I mean - these people are trying to operate under the cover of blocking No Deal. The leader of Plaid saying the aim of their moves is to bin Brexit completely somewhat undermines that pretence.
There’s lots of pretence from every quarter . If it was Corbyn saying this then yes it would be a bad move .
Labour is now completely associated with the same movement. Working in cahoots.
Oh the outrage, the humanity, he used the phrase girly! The woke generation are screaming to the sky and weeping wounded tears at the horrors of it all It really didn't require an intervention Jo, fauxrage is not a vote winner
The woke generation are also locking girls out of school and calling the police on them because they want to wear skirts.
Er, what? This is about kids wearing skirts and shorts too high, which the school chose to tackle by making it trousers-only. Similar to that case a while back where the boys started wearing skirts as a protest, except in this case they're being even-handed instead of unfairly only targeting boys.
In both cases silly, they should let the kids wear skirts and shorts. But a front in the culture war? Not seeing it.
Presumably girls are allowed to wear skirts on religious grounds?
Love it. On Rees Mogg: "He is an absolute fraud, he is a living example of what a moderately cut double-breasted suit and a decent tie can do with an ultra-posh voice and a bit of ginger stuck up his arse. You do not behave like that as leader of the House.” Both men went to Eton but Sir Nicholas says Rees-Mogg’s behaviour has nothing to do with his school. “I thought it was bloody bad manners and he of all people should know better. He has had all the advantages and frankly nanny made a serious bish. I wanted to kick him firmly in the arse and say, ‘What the hell do you think you are playing at? Sit up!’ ” His speech in the Brexit debate was “the lowest form of student union hackery, insolence and bad manners”.
I love how Nick Soames is now being heralded by the left as some paragon of virtue, when in the past they have viewed him with contempt as a bed-blocker with old-fashioned views. His name isn't mentioned now without "grandson of Winston Churchill" added on the end. A distinctly average politician, regardless of who his grandfather was.
Criticising Boris for chucking Sir Nicholas out at the same time as chanelling his grandfather was a particularly absurd piece of twitter idiocy. Who know these people were such big fans of the hereditary principle?
Probably the same people who were cheering the Winston Churchill cafe in North London being smashed up a year or so ago
I wonder how long before "The People's Vote" lot put a Boris head on there and ask why he is chicken of a referendum.
Because we've already had one.
Oh, I forgot, that one, the one with the misleading info, the Russian bot interference and the promises of it was going to be easy, and no-deal being one in a million. Only one ever allowed I guess? Will of the people a bit worry to find out for certain?
If no-deal is so popular and the only choice it needs to be tested. Unless you are chicken of course
I really don't understand this Kinnock. He is so useless. We have REMAIN in our grasp. Why should we let it go ?
His seat is 60% leave
Yvette Cooper's seat is 69% Leave. There are many Northern Labour MPs with similar Leave %. It does not mean they all vote Labour. In fact, very few do.
Sure, but where's the harm in making a futile gesture?
Kinnock won 68% of the vote in 2017. UKIP got 4%. If his seat was 60% leave, then to say that "very few" of the labour voters voted leave is plainly wrong.
I really don't understand this Kinnock. He is so useless. We have REMAIN in our grasp. Why should we let it go ?
His seat is 60% leave
Yvette Cooper's seat is 69% Leave. There are many Northern Labour MPs with similar Leave %. It does not mean they all vote Labour. In fact, very few do.
Sure, but where's the harm in making a futile gesture?
Kinnock won 68% of the vote in 2017. UKIP got 4%. If his seat was 60% leave, then to say that "very few" of the labour voters voted leave is plainly wrong.
There’s still the possibility that more than 50% of Labour voters in his constituency voted Remain.
Love it. On Rees Mogg: "He is an absolute fraud, he is a living example of what a moderately cut double-breasted suit and a decent tie can do with an ultra-posh voice and a bit of ginger stuck up his arse. You do not behave like that as leader of the House.” Both men went to Eton but Sir Nicholas says Rees-Mogg’s behaviour has nothing to do with his school. “I thought it was bloody bad manners and he of all people should know better. He has had all the advantages and frankly nanny made a serious bish. I wanted to kick him firmly in the arse and say, ‘What the hell do you think you are playing at? Sit up!’ ” His speech in the Brexit debate was “the lowest form of student union hackery, insolence and bad manners”.
I love how Nick Soames is now being heralded by the left as some paragon of virtue, when in the past they have viewed him with contempt as a bed-blocker with old-fashioned views. His name isn't mentioned now without "grandson of Winston Churchill" added on the end. A distinctly average politician, regardless of who his grandfather was.
I am not "of the left" you plonker. I am a former constituency party chairman of the once great Conservative Party. That was before it was taken over by hoodlums liars and nutters
I bet the party is gutted it has lost you....
But in all seriousness, I wasn't calling you "of the left", you plonker, I was talking about the left commentariat including the Guardian, in which Soames was interviewed.
The "Party" is now Conservative in Name Only, so no, I doubt they are. Nick Soames is an excellent individual, and will be a great loss to parliament if he is not returned after the next election. The incompetent Boris Johnson and his cabal of extremists are not fit to lick the boots of the likes of Nick Soames or Ken Clarke. This government is made up of lightweight idiots, which is why we are in the state we are in.
Love it. On Rees Mogg: "He is an absolute fraud, he is a living example of what a moderately cut double-breasted suit and a decent tie can do with an ultra-posh voice and a bit of ginger stuck up his arse. You do not behave like that as leader of the House.” Both men went to Eton but Sir Nicholas says Rees-Mogg’s behaviour has nothing to do with his school. “I thought it was bloody bad manners and he of all people should know better. He has had all the advantages and frankly nanny made a serious bish. I wanted to kick him firmly in the arse and say, ‘What the hell do you think you are playing at? Sit up!’ ” His speech in the Brexit debate was “the lowest form of student union hackery, insolence and bad manners”.
I love how Nick Soames is now being heralded by the left as some paragon of virtue, when in the past they have viewed him with contempt as a bed-blocker with old-fashioned views. His name isn't mentioned now without "grandson of Winston Churchill" added on the end. A distinctly average politician, regardless of who his grandfather was.
I am not "of the left" you plonker. I am a former constituency party chairman of the once great Conservative Party. That was before it was taken over by hoodlums liars and nutters
I bet the party is gutted it has lost you....
But in all seriousness, I wasn't calling you "of the left", you plonker, I was talking about the left commentariat including the Guardian, in which Soames was interviewed.
The "Party" is now Conservative in Name Only, so no, I doubt they are. Nick Soames is an excellent individual, and will be a great loss to parliament if he is not returned after the next election. The incompetent Boris Johnson and his cabal of extremists are not fit to lick the boots of the likes of Nick Soames or Ken Clarke. This government is made up of lightweight idiots, which is why we are in the state we are in.
If it was left to the likes of you the Tory Party would be back at the 9% it got in the European Parliament elections after May extended and the Brexit Party would be on the 30%+ rating the Tories are now under Boris, as Farage got in the European Parliament elections
Love it. On Rees Mogg: "He is an absolute fraud, he is a living example of what a moderately cut double-breasted suit and a decent tie can do with an ultra-posh voice and a bit of ginger stuck up his arse. You do not behave like that as leader of the House.” Both men went to Eton but Sir Nicholas says Rees-Mogg’s behaviour has nothing to do with his school. “I thought it was bloody bad manners and he of all people should know better. He has had all the advantages and frankly nanny made a serious bish. I wanted to kick him firmly in the arse and say, ‘What the hell do you think you are playing at? Sit up!’ ” His speech in the Brexit debate was “the lowest form of student union hackery, insolence and bad manners”.
I love how Nick Soames is now being heralded by the left as some paragon of virtue, when in the past they have viewed him with contempt as a bed-blocker with old-fashioned views. His name isn't mentioned now without "grandson of Winston Churchill" added on the end. A distinctly average politician, regardless of who his grandfather was.
I am not "of the left" you plonker. I am a former constituency party chairman of the once great Conservative Party. That was before it was taken over by hoodlums liars and nutters
I bet the party is gutted it has lost you....
But in all seriousness, I wasn't calling you "of the left", you plonker, I was talking about the left commentariat including the Guardian, in which Soames was interviewed.
The "Party" is now Conservative in Name Only, so no, I doubt they are. Nick Soames is an excellent individual, and will be a great loss to parliament if he is not returned after the next election. The incompetent Boris Johnson and his cabal of extremists are not fit to lick the boots of the likes of Nick Soames or Ken Clarke. This government is made up of lightweight idiots, which is why we are in the state we are in.
Soames has stated he is not standing at the next election.
Love it. On Rees Mogg: "He is an absolute fraud, he is a living example of what a moderately cut double-breasted suit and a decent tie can do with an ultra-posh voice and a bit of ginger stuck up his arse. You do not behave like that as leader of the House.” Both men went to Eton but Sir Nicholas says Rees-Mogg’s behaviour has nothing to do with his school. “I thought it was bloody bad manners and he of all people should know better. He has had all the advantages and frankly nanny made a serious bish. I wanted to kick him firmly in the arse and say, ‘What the hell do you think you are playing at? Sit up!’ ” His speech in the Brexit debate was “the lowest form of student union hackery, insolence and bad manners”.
I love how Nick Soames is now being heralded by the left as some paragon of virtue, when in the past they have viewed him with contempt as a bed-blocker with old-fashioned views. His name isn't mentioned now without "grandson of Winston Churchill" added on the end. A distinctly average politician, regardless of who his grandfather was.
I am not "of the left" you plonker. I am a former constituency party chairman of the once great Conservative Party. That was before it was taken over by hoodlums liars and nutters
I bet the party is gutted it has lost you....
But in all seriousness, I wasn't calling you "of the left", you plonker, I was talking about the left commentariat including the Guardian, in which Soames was interviewed.
The "Party" is now Conservative in Name Only, so no, I doubt they are. Nick Soames is an excellent individual, and will be a great loss to parliament if he is not returned after the next election. The incompetent Boris Johnson and his cabal of extremists are not fit to lick the boots of the likes of Nick Soames or Ken Clarke. This government is made up of lightweight idiots, which is why we are in the state we are in.
Tbh soames achieved very little in his 36 years in parliament thus far. Short stint as armed forces minister under major, hes no political giant, just an average backbencher with a famous grandad
Love it. On Rees Mogg: "He is an absolute fraud, he is a living example of what a moderately cut double-breasted suit and a decent tie can do with an ultra-posh voice and a bit of ginger stuck up his arse. You do not behave like that as leader of the House.” Both men went to Eton but Sir Nicholas says Rees-Mogg’s behaviour has nothing to do with his school. “I thought it was bloody bad manners and he of all people should know better. He has had all the advantages and frankly nanny made a serious bish. I wanted to kick him firmly in the arse and say, ‘What the hell do you think you are playing at? Sit up!’ ” His speech in the Brexit debate was “the lowest form of student union hackery, insolence and bad manners”.
I love how Nick Soames is now being heralded by the left as some paragon of virtue, when in the past they have viewed him with contempt as a bed-blocker with old-fashioned views. His name isn't mentioned now without "grandson of Winston Churchill" added on the end. A distinctly average politician, regardless of who his grandfather was.
I am not "of the left" you plonker. I am a former constituency party chairman of the once great Conservative Party. That was before it was taken over by hoodlums liars and nutters
I bet the party is gutted it has lost you....
But in all seriousness, I wasn't calling you "of the left", you plonker, I was talking about the left commentariat including the Guardian, in which Soames was interviewed.
The "Party" is now Conservative in Name Only, so no, I doubt they are. Nick Soames is an excellent individual, and will be a great loss to parliament if he is not returned after the next election. The incompetent Boris Johnson and his cabal of extremists are not fit to lick the boots of the likes of Nick Soames or Ken Clarke. This government is made up of lightweight idiots, which is why we are in the state we are in.
If it was left to the likes of you the Tory Party would be back at the 9% it got in the European Parliament elections after May extended and the Brexit Party would be on the 30%+ rating the Tories are now under Boris, as Farage got in the European Parliament elections
May would still be in the very high 30s/low 40s had the morons in the ERG passed her WA and Brexit taken place on time.
That is certainly Blair's advice to Corbyn today, though given the Commons has refused to respect the result of the first referendum why should they respect the result of a second referendum if they don't like the result?
I really don't understand this Kinnock. He is so useless. We have REMAIN in our grasp. Why should we let it go ?
His seat is 60% leave
Yvette Cooper's seat is 69% Leave. There are many Northern Labour MPs with similar Leave %. It does not mean they all vote Labour. In fact, very few do.
Sure, but where's the harm in making a futile gesture?
Kinnock won 68% of the vote in 2017. UKIP got 4%. If his seat was 60% leave, then to say that "very few" of the labour voters voted leave is plainly wrong.
In 2017, one year after the Ref he still got 68% of the vote. So, what's his problem ? Yvette Cooper's seat is 69% Leave. She is not talking about a Deal. Neither are any of the Sunderland MPs all of whom support Remain.
Leader of Plaid a disaster for the 'Remain Alliance' on the 6pm News - "we want to break Boris and end Brexit". Not even pretending this is about preventing No Deal.
As someone who is pro deal but strongly anti no deal, I have no qualms about similar minded MPs working with remain to block no deal or leave to deliver deal.
In a divided country, whichever side reaches out to the middle wins, it is fairly obvious.
Love it. On Rees Mogg: "He is an absolute fraud, he is a living example of what a moderately cut double-breasted suit and a decent tie can do with an ultra-posh voice and a bit of ginger stuck up his arse. You do not behave like that as leader of the House.” Both men went to Eton but Sir Nicholas says Rees-Mogg’s behaviour has nothing to kery, insolence and bad manners”.
I love how Nick Soames is now being heralded by the left as some paragon of virtue, when in the past they have viewed him with contempt as a bed-blocker with old-fashioned views. His name isn't mentioned now without "grandson of Winston Churchill" added on the end. A distinctly average politician, regardless of who his grandfather was.
I am not "of the left" you plonker. I am a former constituency party chairman of the once great Conservative Party. That was before it was taken over by hoodlums liars and nutters
I bet the party is gutted it has lost you....
But in all seriousness, I wasn't calling you "of the left", you plonker, I was talking about the left commentariat including the Guardian, in which Soames was interviewed.
The "Party" is now Conservative in Name Only, so no, I doubt they are. Nick Soames is an excellent individual, and will be a great loss to parliament if he is not returned after the next election. The incompetent Boris Johnson and his cabal of extremists are not fit to lick the boots of the likes of Nick Soames or Ken Clarke. This government is made up of lightweight idiots, which is why we are in the state we are in.
If it was left to the likes of you the Tory Party would be back at the 9% it got in the European Parliament elections after May extended and the Brexit Party would be on the 30%+ rating the Tories are now under Boris, as Farage got in the European Parliament elections
May would still be in the very high 30s/low 40s had the morons in the ERG passed her WA and Brexit taken place on time.
She would have been probably hovering around the 30% mark and the Brexit Party on about 15 to 20% as they still opposes the Withdrawal Agreement but yes she probably would have been ahead.
It was her decision to ask for and vote for an extension which cost the Tories so much support and Boris will not repeat the mistake.
(Of course most Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement at least once, most Labour and LD MPs voted against it)
Listened to New York State NPR this morning, before lunch in the sunshine overlooking Seneca Lake. Their 'expert' couldn't understand why Boris is going out of his way to make enemies of so many former colleagues and supporters.
That is certainly Blair's advice to Corbyn today, though given the Commons has refused to respect the result of the first referendum why should they respect the result if a second referendum if they don't like the result?
The WA would have passed had it no been for the no-dealers/self-harmers. Do you think they should be described as "traitors"? Those scumbags that drove Theresa May from office? They were certainly treacherous to their then PM
Leader of Plaid a disaster for the 'Remain Alliance' on the 6pm News - "we want to break Boris and end Brexit". Not even pretending this is about preventing No Deal.
As someone who is pro deal but strongly anti no deal, I have no qualms about similar minded MPs working with remain to block no deal or leave to deliver deal.
In a divided country, whichever side reaches out to the middle wins, it is fairly obvious.
Tell that to Nick Clegg in 2015, according to Yougov he was closer to the centre as seen by voters than Cameron, Ed Miliband and Farage but if you abandon your base staying in the middle just sees you get run over
Leader of Plaid a disaster for the 'Remain Alliance' on the 6pm News - "we want to break Boris and end Brexit". Not even pretending this is about preventing No Deal.
As someone who is pro deal but strongly anti no deal, I have no qualms about similar minded MPs working with remain to block no deal or leave to deliver deal.
In a divided country, whichever side reaches out to the middle wins, it is fairly obvious.
Leader of Plaid a disaster for the 'Remain Alliance' on the 6pm News - "we want to break Boris and end Brexit". Not even pretending this is about preventing No Deal.
As someone who is pro deal but strongly anti no deal, I have no qualms about similar minded MPs working with remain to block no deal or leave to deliver deal.
In a divided country, whichever side reaches out to the middle wins, it is fairly obvious.
Tell that to Nick Clegg in 2015, according to Yougov he was closer to the centre as seen by voters than Cameron, Ed Miliband and Farage but if you abandon your base staying in the middle just sees you get run over
I don't think Boris will break the law, but he's not going to extend either. So it's either resignation or some other cunning plan that no-one has thought of.
Gove or someone signs the letter on the govts behalf to keep the PMs pledge literally if not de facto?
Leader of Plaid a disaster for the 'Remain Alliance' on the 6pm News - "we want to break Boris and end Brexit". Not even pretending this is about preventing No Deal.
As someone who is pro deal but strongly anti no deal, I have no qualms about similar minded MPs working with remain to block no deal or leave to deliver deal.
In a divided country, whichever side reaches out to the middle wins, it is fairly obvious.
Tell that to Nick Clegg in 2015, according to Yougov he was closer to the centre as seen by voters than Cameron, Ed Miliband and Farage but if you abandon your base staying in the middle just sees you get run over
Cameron was pretty centrist and won an election, proves my point.
Love it. On Rees Mogg: "He is an absolute fraud, he is a living example of what a moderately cut double-breasted suit and a decent tie can do with an ultra-posh voice and a bit of ginger stuck up his arse. You do not behave like that as leader of the House.” Both men went to Eton but Sir Nicholas says Rees-Mogg’s behaviour has nothing to do with his school. “I thought it was bloody bad manners and he of all people should know better. He has had all the advantages and frankly nanny made a serious bish. I wanted to kick him firmly in the arse and say, ‘What the hell do you think you are playing at? Sit up!’ ” His speech in the Brexit debate was “the lowest form of student union hackery, insolence and bad manners”.
I love how Nick Soames is now being heralded by the left as some paragon of virtue, when in the past they have viewed him with contempt as a bed-blocker with old-fashioned views. His name isn't mentioned now without "grandson of Winston Churchill" added on the end. A distinctly average politician, regardless of who his grandfather was.
I am not "of the left" you plonker. I am a former constituency party chairman of the once great Conservative Party. That was before it was taken over by hoodlums liars and nutters
I bet the party is gutted it has lost you....
But in all seriousness, I wasn't calling you "of the left", you plonker, I was talking about the left commentariat including the Guardian, in which Soames was interviewed.
The "Party" is now Conservative in Name Only, so no, I doubt they are. Nick Soames is an excellent individual, and will be a great loss to parliament if he is not returned after the next election. The incompetent Boris Johnson and his cabal of extremists are not fit to lick the boots of the likes of Nick Soames or Ken Clarke. This government is made up of lightweight idiots, which is why we are in the state we are in.
Tbh soames achieved very little in his 36 years in parliament thus far. Short stint as armed forces minister under major, hes no political giant, just an average backbencher with a famous grandad
I assume you have never met him? He is charming, articulate, and has an ability to communicate with people of all backgrounds, views, parties etc. We need more, not less Nick Soames. Whatever he has not achieved, he has strong understanding of duty and principle. In that, he is a far more successful individual than Boris Johnson.
The Venn diagram of “leave minded voters Boris wants” and “people who have an issue with those phrases” is two entirely separate circles.
It may be he’s aiming for a far too narrow coalition (I think that’s possible) but based on his strategy, this won’t worry him.
A Euler diagram might look like that. A Venn diagram always has the overlap, even if it is empty.
Not sure about that. I’m going fully into pedants’ corner here but (ignoring the fact I was actually just using loose language and cocked up) a Venn diagram should show all possible relationships, and it is true that I’ve not done that. But I could argue that’s the joke - I’m saying it’s not possible for them to overlap and there are no relationships.
Leader of Plaid a disaster for the 'Remain Alliance' on the 6pm News - "we want to break Boris and end Brexit". Not even pretending this is about preventing No Deal.
As someone who is pro deal but strongly anti no deal, I have no qualms about similar minded MPs working with remain to block no deal or leave to deliver deal.
In a divided country, whichever side reaches out to the middle wins, it is fairly obvious.
Tell that to Nick Clegg in 2015, according to Yougov he was closer to the centre as seen by voters than Cameron, Ed Miliband and Farage but if you abandon your base staying in the middle just sees you get run over
Cameron was pretty centrist and won an election, proves my point.
Cameron also promised an EU referendum to appease his base without which he likely would not have got a majority in 2015 due to Tory to UKIP defections
The Venn diagram of “leave minded voters Boris wants” and “people who have an issue with those phrases” is two entirely separate circles.
It may be he’s aiming for a far too narrow coalition (I think that’s possible) but based on his strategy, this won’t worry him.
I’m not sure that is true. I’m coming across quite a few elderly women Leavers who really dislike his boorishness and lack of professionalism.
I guess the question is: will they vote for him anyway?
As a group they are unusually hard to predict this time! Typically always vote and tend to vote Tory but dislike the PM. Not sure they will abstain, local candidates may make a difference with that group as will the campaign itself.
Leader of Plaid a disaster for the 'Remain Alliance' on the 6pm News - "we want to break Boris and end Brexit". Not even pretending this is about preventing No Deal.
As someone who is pro deal but strongly anti no deal, I have no qualms about similar minded MPs working with remain to block no deal or leave to deliver deal.
In a divided country, whichever side reaches out to the middle wins, it is fairly obvious.
Tell that to Nick Clegg in 2015, according to Yougov he was closer to the centre as seen by voters than Cameron, Ed Miliband and Farage but if you abandon your base staying in the middle just sees you get run over
Tell that to Tony Blair.
I will tell that to Tony Blair who after invading Iraq lost much of his base to the LDs and saw his majority slashed by 100 seats at the 2005 general election
That is certainly Blair's advice to Corbyn today, though given the Commons has refused to respect the result of the first referendum why should they respect the result of a second referendum if they don't like the result?
Listened to New York State NPR this morning, before lunch in the sunshine overlooking Seneca Lake. Their 'expert' couldn't understand why Boris is going out of his way to make enemies of so many former colleagues and supporters.
That’s why he must be left in place for as long as possible, no majority, no real plans it will all unwind nicely
I wonder how long before "The People's Vote" lot put a Boris head on there and ask why he is chicken of a referendum.
Because we've already had one.
Oh, I forgot, that one, the one with the misleading info, the Russian bot interference and the promises of it was going to be easy, and no-deal being one in a million. Only one ever allowed I guess? Will of the people a bit worry to find out for certain?
If no-deal is so popular and the only choice it needs to be tested. Unless you are chicken of course
What's so chicken about wanting the result of the referendum I voted in three years ago to be honoured?
Love it. On Rees Mogg: "He is an absolute fraud, he is a living example of what a moderately cut double-breasted suit and a decent tie can do with an ultra-posh voice and a bit of ginger stuck up his arse. You do not behave like that as leader of the House.” Both men went to Eton but Sir Nicholas says Rees-Mogg’s behaviour has nothing to do with his school. “I thought it was bloody bad manners and he of all people should know better. He has had all the advantages and frankly nanny made a serious bish. I wanted to kick him firmly in the arse and say, ‘What the hell do you think you are playing at? Sit up!’ ” His speech in the Brexit debate was “the lowest form of student union hackery, insolence and bad manners”.
I love how Nick Soames is now being heralded by the left as some paragon of virtue, when in the past they have viewed him with contempt as a bed-blocker with old-fashioned views. His name isn't mentioned now without "grandson of Winston Churchill" added on the end. A distinctly average politician, regardless of who his grandfather was.
I am not "of the left" you plonker. I am a former constituency party chairman of the once great Conservative Party. That was before it was taken over by hoodlums liars and nutters
I bet the party is gutted it has lost you....
But in all seriousness, I wasn't calling you "of the left", you plonker, I was talking about the left commentariat including the Guardian, in which Soames was interviewed.
The "Party" is now Conservative in Name Only, so no, I doubt they are. Nick Soames is an excellent individual, and will be a great loss to parliament if he is not returned after the next election. The incompetent Boris Johnson and his cabal of extremists are not fit to lick the boots of the likes of Nick Soames or Ken Clarke. This government is made up of lightweight idiots, which is why we are in the state we are in.
If it was left to the likes of you the Tory Party would be back at the 9% it got in the European Parliament elections after May extended and the Brexit Party would be on the 30%+ rating the Tories are now under Boris, as Farage got in the European Parliament elections
The party is now left to the likes of you, which is why it will die, unless the grown ups are put back in charge. The best and greatest organisations in the world encourage innovation, discussion and sometimes dissent. The worst ones have incompetent leaders, and braindead followers that lap up the populist crap that their low grade "leaders" pass to them. You are welcome to such an organisation. It suits you.
Leader of Plaid a disaster for the 'Remain Alliance' on the 6pm News - "we want to break Boris and end Brexit". Not even pretending this is about preventing No Deal.
As someone who is pro deal but strongly anti no deal, I have no qualms about similar minded MPs working with remain to block no deal or leave to deliver deal.
In a divided country, whichever side reaches out to the middle wins, it is fairly obvious.
Tell that to Nick Clegg in 2015, according to Yougov he was closer to the centre as seen by voters than Cameron, Ed Miliband and Farage but if you abandon your base staying in the middle just sees you get run over
Cameron was pretty centrist and won an election, proves my point.
Cameron also promised an EU referendum to appease his base without which he likely would not have got a majority in 2015 due to Tory to UKIP defections
I think there is a chance of a deal with Swinson here - if the LDs swallow their objection to Corbyn as temporary PM of a government supported by all the opposition parties he will offer a second referendum.
Leader of Plaid a disaster for the 'Remain Alliance' on the 6pm News - "we want to break Boris and end Brexit". Not even pretending this is about preventing No Deal.
As someone who is pro deal but strongly anti no deal, I have no qualms about similar minded MPs working with remain to block no deal or leave to deliver deal.
In a divided country, whichever side reaches out to the middle wins, it is fairly obvious.
My feeling about this is that at least she’s being honest. There’s too much wimping out from politicians who don’t want to put their money where their mouth is on this issue. For many it is about stopping Brexit, not about what the public did/didn’t vote for.
Leader of Plaid a disaster for the 'Remain Alliance' on the 6pm News - "we want to break Boris and end Brexit". Not even pretending this is about preventing No Deal.
As someone who is pro deal but strongly anti no deal, I have no qualms about similar minded MPs working with remain to block no deal or leave to deliver deal.
In a divided country, whichever side reaches out to the middle wins, it is fairly obvious.
Tell that to Nick Clegg in 2015, according to Yougov he was closer to the centre as seen by voters than Cameron, Ed Miliband and Farage but if you abandon your base staying in the middle just sees you get run over
Cameron was pretty centrist and won an election, proves my point.
Cameron also promised an EU referendum to appease his base without which he likely would not have got a majority in 2015 due to Tory to UKIP defections
He got a lot right, but has messed up with his most significant policy. Most seem to take the view that as with Blair, a handful of mistakes on key policies outweigh far more good decisions day to day.
I disagree with that analysis. I find it unlikely that a PM who gets 80% of decisions right is worse than a PM who gets 65% of decisions right, even if the 80% PM got their big decision wrong, and the 65% PM got their big decision right. It was probably just variance.
I thought you liked Salmond? How is his trial going btw?
He won first round and got over £500K. The schemers will be trying to make sure it never gets to court and all the rest of their conspiring gets published. My bet is he will do well and may not ever need to end up in court even. Some of the players will be worried.
I think there is a chance of a deal with Swinson here - if the LDs swallow their objection to Corbyn as temporary PM of a government supported by all the opposition parties he will offer a second referendum.
If (as I’d expect) it was a weak coalition that just about held together to get “Remain or May’s Deal” over the line, that would solve nothing. It would see Leave boycott the referendum, be around to inherit the recession next year, would eventually fall apart, and would likely lose in due course to a Tory Party with Brexit in the manifesto.
There’s no quick ending to the mess we’re in. We all just have to decide which truly terrible Act Three we want to live through; unless by some miracle MPs can grow up and pass some form of deal with a view to a compromise Brexit. Spoiler - that won’t now happen.
FTPA geeks - re: my last couple of exchanges with Big G.
Do you agree Boris has "14 days protection" from the FTPA?
It looks to me as if that's just the deadline for him or anyone reconstituting an administration before an election's called (ie *anyone* can seek confidence in that period and end the process).
As dyedwoolie said, prorogation may make the point moot anyway.. but it would be interesting to know how swiftly a subsequent VOC could happen in practice.
Boris will give notice that Parliament is prorogued at the end of the VONC.
Prorogation does not prevent the Queen appointing a new Prime Minister.
But under FTPA A-Nother has got the demonstrate they can command the confidence of the House within 14 days... Which they won't be able to do as Parliament is prorogued beyond 14 days?
I suspect The Speaker will convene a meeting outside of parliament if that were to be the issue. However I strongly suspect nobody will get the numbers required
Love it. On Rees Mogg: "He is an absolute fraud, he is a living example of what a moderately cut double-breasted suit and a decent tie can do with an ultra-posh voice and a bit of ginger stuck up his arse. You do not behave like that as leader of nd bad manners”.
I love how Nick Soames is now being heralded by the left as some paragon of virtue, when in the past they have viewed him with contempt as a bed-blocker with old-fashioned views. His name isn't mentioned now without "grandson of Winston Churchill" added on the end. A distinctly average politician, regardless of who his grandfather was.
I am not "of the left" you plonker. I am a former constituency party chairman of the once great Conservative Party. That was before it was taken over by hoodlums liars and nutters
I bet the party is gutted it has lost you....
But in all seriousness, I wasn't calling you "of the left", you plonker, I was talking about the left commentariat including the Guardian, in which Soames was interviewed.
The "Party" is now Conservative in Name Only, so no, I doubt they are. Nick Soames is an excellent individual, and will be a great loss to parliament if he is not returned after the next election. The incompetent Boris Johnson and his cabal of extremists are not fit to lick the boots of the likes of Nick Soames or Ken Clarke. This government is made up of lightweight idiots, which is why we are in the state we are in.
If it was left to the likes of you the Tory Party would be back at the 9% it got in the European Parliament elections after May extended and the Brexit Party would be on the 30%+ rating the Tories are now under Boris, as Farage got in the European Parliament elections
The party is now left to the likes of you, which is why it will die, unless the grown ups are put back in charge. The best and greatest organisations in the world encourage innovation, discussion and sometimes dissent. The worst ones have incompetent leaders, and braindead followers that lap up the populist crap that their low grade "leaders" pass to them. You are welcome to such an organisation. It suits you.
No the Tories would have died if they had allowed the Brexit Party to overtake them as the main party of the right, they would have suffered the same fate as the Progressive Conservatives in 1993 when they were trounced and overtaken by the Reform Party, probably eventually being taken over by the Brexit Party as the Progressive Conservatives were taken over by the Alliance, the Reform Party's successor party, to form the current Conservative Party of Canada
The Venn diagram of “leave minded voters Boris wants” and “people who have an issue with those phrases” is two entirely separate circles.
It may be he’s aiming for a far too narrow coalition (I think that’s possible) but based on his strategy, this won’t worry him.
I’m not sure that is true. I’m coming across quite a few elderly women Leavers who really dislike his boorishness and lack of professionalism.
A lot of older moderates don't like Boris.
There is quite a population of older Tories who are one nation moderates, including many leavers. In my patch the marginalising of Rory Stewart will not go down well with quite a number, nationally Kenneth Clarke is respected by a lot of older voters. The complicating and under explored issue is that the referendum result by definition split the moderate centre ground vote - the very people who are centre ground Tory and Labour. Because it was 16m v 17m votes it is not moderates v extremists. It is moderates v moderates. There are not enough extremists to go round. Which is why polarising around this issue, creating caricatures, is so dangerous and TMs deal is the most reconciling possibility available.
Love it. On Rees Mogg: "He is an absolute fraud, he is a living example of what a moderately cut double-breasted suit and a decent tie can do with an ultra-posh voice and a bit of ginger stuck up his arse. You do not behave like that as leader of the House.” Both men went to Eton but Sir Nicholas says Rees-Mogg’s behaviour has nothing to do with his school. “I thought it was bloody bad manners and he of all people should know better. He has had all the advantages and frankly nanny made a serious bish. I wanted to kick him firmly in the arse and say, ‘What the hell do you think you are playing at? Sit up!’ ” His speech in the Brexit debate was “the lowest form of student union hackery, insolence and bad manners”.
I love how Nick Soames is now being heralded by the left as some paragon of virtue, when in the past they have viewed him with contempt as a bed-blocker with old-fashioned views. His name isn't mentioned now without "grandson of Winston Churchill" added on the end. A distinctly average politician, regardless of who his grandfather was.
I am not "of the left" you plonker. I am a former constituency party chairman of the once great Conservative Party. That was before it was taken over by hoodlums liars and nutters
I bet the party is gutted it has lost you....
But in all seriousness, I wasn't calling you "of the left", you plonker, I was talking about the left commentariat including the Guardian, in which Soames was interviewed.
The "Party" is now Conservative in Name Only, so no, I doubt they are. Nick Soames is an excellent individual, and will be a great loss to parliament if he is not returned after the next election. The incompetent Boris Johnson and his cabal of extremists are not fit to lick the boots of the likes of Nick Soames or Ken Clarke. This government is made up of lightweight idiots, which is why we are in the state we are in.
If it was left to the likes of you the Tory Party would be back at the 9% it got in the European Parliament elections after May extended and the Brexit Party would be on the 30%+ rating the Tories are now under Boris, as Farage got in the European Parliament elections
The party is now left to the likes of you, which is why it will die, unless the grown ups are put back in charge. The best and greatest organisations in the world encourage innovation, discussion and sometimes dissent. The worst ones have incompetent leaders, and braindead followers that lap up the populist crap that their low grade "leaders" pass to them. You are welcome to such an organisation. It suits you.
Sorry for copying the lot but this is an intra Con bicker of real colour and quality.
I think there is a chance of a deal with Swinson here - if the LDs swallow their objection to Corbyn as temporary PM of a government supported by all the opposition parties he will offer a second referendum.
If he does that and Remain wins he will lose Labour Leavers for good and Boris or Farage could win an SNP 2015 style landslide at the next general election.
Oh the outrage, the humanity, he used the phrase girly! The woke generation are screaming to the sky and weeping wounded tears at the horrors of it all It really didn't require an intervention Jo, fauxrage is not a vote winner
The woke generation are also locking girls out of school and calling the police on them because they want to wear skirts.
Putinist klaxon. The aim here -- which you /appear/ to be buying into -- is to portray a fascist politics as a politics of innocence, by stoking psychosexual fears in the general population. In Russia, the process is mediated through the image of western politics being inherently homosexual, but since homophobia is dying in the west, different targets are chosen. So a mixture of the "great replacement" nonsense that Orban was rambling on about has been doing the rounds the last few years, and now we're moving onto the kind of stuff you're bringing up.
It's Bannonist shite, designed to turn people to the path of fear and hatred, and to smuggle in a fascist ideology. See also Putin, Zaldostanov, Bannon, Manafort.
Wokes are a bunch of fannies, they need to get a life with all this gender neutral crap. Is it any wonder the country is fecked.
I think there is a chance of a deal with Swinson here - if the LDs swallow their objection to Corbyn as temporary PM of a government supported by all the opposition parties he will offer a second referendum.
Except that the balance of power in Parliament is now held by the independents, and nearly all of them are deeply hostile to Corbyn. The TIGs pretty much exist because of opposition to Corbyn, figures like Field and Woodcock aren't going to put him in power, neither is Lady Hermon, and then we also have to ask how many of the whipless Tories are going to set aside a lifetime of convictions and give assent to a krypto-communist PM. We've clearly not heard from all of them on this matter yet, but I distinctly recall Spreadsheet Phil, for one, saying that he would rather boil his own head than vote confidence in Corbyn. Letwin has also said he'd contemplate no confidencing Johnson but not voting for Corbyn.
Excluding the Deputy Speakers, Lab + SNP + LD + Plaid + Green = 301 MPs. Corbyn needs 320 to guarantee winning a VONC. Where do the 19 independents prepared to back him come from? I don't see it happening.
If Johnson resigns and puts Corbyn into bat, then he can VONC Corbyn immediately and be almost guaranteed of success. That's how he gets out of asking for the A50 extension, and can force a GE into the bargain.
Love it. On Rees Mogg: "He is an absolute fraud, he is a living example of what a moderately cut double-breaviour has nothing to do with his school. “I thoe Brexit debate was “the lowest form of student union hackery, insolence and bad manners”.
I love how Nick Soames is now being heralded by the left as some paragon of virtue, when in the past they have viewed him with contempt as a bed-blocker with old-fashioned views. His name isn't mentioned now without "grandson of Winston Churchill" added on the end. A distinctly average politician, regardless of who his grandfather was.
I am not "of the left" you plonker. I am a former constituency party chairman of the once great Conservative Party. That was before it was taken over by hoodlums liars and nutters
I bet the party is gutted it has lost you....
But in all seriousness, I wasn't calling you "of the left", you plonker, I was talking about the left commentariat including the Guardian, in which Soames was interviewed.
The "Party" is now Conservative in Name Only, so no, I doubt they are. Nick Soames is an excellent individual, and will be a great loss to parliament if he is not returned after the next election. The incompetent Boris Johnson and his cabal of extremists are not fit to lick the boots of the likes of Nick Soames or Ken Clarke. This government is made up of lightweight idiots, which is why we are in the state we are in.
Tbh soames achieved very little in his 36 years in parliament thus far. Short stint as armed forces minister under major, hes no political giant, just an average backbencher with a famous grandad
I assume you have never met him? He is charming, articulate, and has an ability to communicate with people of all backgrounds, views, parties etc. We need more, not less Nick Soames. Whatever he has not achieved, he has strong understanding of duty and principle. In that, he is a far more successful individual than Boris Johnson.
And yet overlooked by 6 leaders for a shadow or government gig. His niceness or otherwise as a person doesn't alter his underwhelming political career. I have no comment on how he is as a constituency mp as hes not my mp. Meeting Mugabe in 2017 and being super friends with him was a sub optimal moment for him, as was his continual trolling of John Prescott with a snobby 'gin and tonic steward' whenever Prescott came into the chamber
Ftpa states parliament must vote an act of confidence in a new proposed PM. They can't if parliament is prorogued. It's not possible and bj wont recall them to do it.
I don't think that's right, I think they vote confidence in the newly *appointed* PM (or rather his/her government).
So: 1) VONC 2) Queen's advisors take soundings about who else would be able to get confidence (usually outgoing PM's advice is good but in this case he may be playing silly buggers) 3) Queen appoints somebody 4) Parliament votes confidence in them, or doesn't so goto (2) ...until time is up and whichever failed PM is sitting on the chair when the music stops schedules an election
Non-bonkers people of pb, have I got that right???
Right.
Yep basically but the form is that normally she would not appoint anyone if there is doubt they can carry the House. So it is entirely possible she could be advised that no.one has the clear support of the House and she should not appoint anyone.
That isn't however tenable so in that circumstance Boris would have to stay asPM.
The interesting point is what happens if Boris resigns. I assume someone else from yhe party takes over. But what if no one is willing to?
I thought you liked Salmond? How is his trial going btw?
He won first round and got over £500K. The schemers will be trying to make sure it never gets to court and all the rest of their conspiring gets published. My bet is he will do well and may not ever need to end up in court even. Some of the players will be worried.
To be pedantic the money was for exes not compo to Mr Salmond personally. But it does suggest serious issues.
The vox pop over the last few months MPs that didn’t vote for the WA a disgrace failed to respect the referendum MPs that voted to stop nomdalma disgrace failed to respect the teferendum Try telling people they are different MPs on the whole you get shouted down for letting facts get in the way. If you actually suggest that they may actually believe that no deal is disastrous even more derision. WE WANT IT DONE when you ask what happens next WE WANT IT DONE. Suggest that we may have to discuss leaving with the EU, WE WANT ....... There is no desire to debate or listen to alternatives.
I don't think Boris will break the law, but he's not going to extend either. So it's either resignation or some other cunning plan that no-one has thought of.
Gove or someone signs the letter on the govts behalf to keep the PMs pledge literally if not de facto?
The Venn diagram of “leave minded voters Boris wants” and “people who have an issue with those phrases” is two entirely separate circles.
It may be he’s aiming for a far too narrow coalition (I think that’s possible) but based on his strategy, this won’t worry him.
I’m not sure that is true. I’m coming across quite a few elderly women Leavers who really dislike his boorishness and lack of professionalism.
A lot of older moderates don't like Boris.
There is quite a population of older Tories who are one nation moderates, including many leavers. In my patch the marginalising of Rory Stewart will not go down well with quite a number, nationally Kenneth Clarke is respected by a lot of older voters. The complicating and under explored issue is that the referendum result by definition split the moderate centre ground vote - the very people who are centre ground Tory and Labour. Because it was 16m v 17m votes it is not moderates v extremists. It is moderates v moderates. There are not enough extremists to go round. Which is why polarising around this issue, creating caricatures, is so dangerous and TMs deal is the most reconciling possibility available.
You cannot characterise those who would countenance a return to violence in Northern Ireland, Scotland going independent and significant damage to the British economy for Brexit as moderates. Yet those are majority positions among Leavers.
I think there is a chance of a deal with Swinson here - if the LDs swallow their objection to Corbyn as temporary PM of a government supported by all the opposition parties he will offer a second referendum.
Except that the balance of power in Parliament is now held by the independents, and nearly all of them are deeply hostile to Corbyn. The TIGs pretty much exist because of opposition to Corbyn, figures like Field and Woodcock aren't going to put him in power, neither is Lady Hermon, and then we also have to ask how many of the whipless Tories are going to set aside a lifetime of convictions and give assent to a krypto-communist PM. We've clearly not heard from all of them on this matter yet, but I distinctly recall Spreadsheet Phil, for one, saying that he would rather boil his own head than vote confidence in Corbyn. Letwin has also said he'd contemplate no confidencing Johnson but not voting for Corbyn.
Excluding the Deputy Speakers, Lab + SNP + LD + Plaid + Green = 301 MPs. Corbyn needs 320 to guarantee winning a VONC. Where do the 19 independents prepared to back him come from? I don't see it happening.
If Johnson resigns and puts Corbyn into bat, then he can VONC Corbyn immediately and be almost guaranteed of success. That's how he gets out of asking for the A50 extension, and can force a GE into the bargain.
Not a tactic without risk (it legitimises Corbyn as PM and could invoke a “give him a go” mentality) but probably his best bet is to resign now and let events take their turn. I don’t think he gains anything from hanging around being hamstrung.
The risk is that Corbyn doesn’t call an election after extending, but another referendum. With whipped Labour votes and the support of the SNP and Lib Dems he might just get that through. If remain won that vote, it would neutralise the Tories biggest card for at least a little while and might make them less appealing in an election.
EDIT 2: I think he should give a VONC a go on Monday though.
I have lots of good betting positions but one I don't like is short Corbyn next PM at an average 4.3.
Wish I hadn't done that. Was thinking virtually no chance of him being 'put in' without troubling the voters but not so sure about that now.
Still don't really see it but gosh - imagine.
Labour majority at the next election is still (too) long odds. I was in a similar boat and I’ve hedged there as it’s bound to come in if he’s made PM in this Parliament.
I think there is a chance of a deal with Swinson here - if the LDs swallow their objection to Corbyn as temporary PM of a government supported by all the opposition parties he will offer a second referendum.
Except that the balance of power in Parliament is now held by the independents, and nearly all of them are deeply hostile to Corbyn. The TIGs pretty much exist because of opposition to Corbyn, figures like Field and Woodcock aren't going to put him in power, neither is Lady Hermon, and then we also have to ask how many of the whipless Tories are going to set aside a lifetime of convictions and give assent to a krypto-communist PM. We've clearly not heard from all of them on this matter yet, but I distinctly recall Spreadsheet Phil, for one, saying that he would rather boil his own head than vote confidence in Corbyn. Letwin has also said he'd contemplate no confidencing Johnson but not voting for Corbyn.
Excluding the Deputy Speakers, Lab + SNP + LD + Plaid + Green = 301 MPs. Corbyn needs 320 to guarantee winning a VONC. Where do the 19 independents prepared to back him come from? I don't see it happening.
If Johnson resigns and puts Corbyn into bat, then he can VONC Corbyn immediately and be almost guaranteed of success. That's how he gets out of asking for the A50 extension, and can force a GE into the bargain.
If Corbyn can't then no one else can. Labour has the votes. I still think an absolute copper-bottomed commitment for a second referendum will sway everyone [ maybe not the TIGs - they don't want a GE also as they are looking at unemployment ]. Corbyn will be hugely circumscribed anyway because of arithmetic. His statement today regarding GE or a public vote is not a typo. Lefties do not make typos. They are nerds when it comes to statements , resolutions etc.
I think there is a chance of a deal with Swinson here - if the LDs swallow their objection to Corbyn as temporary PM of a government supported by all the opposition parties he will offer a second referendum.
If he does that and Remain wins he will lose Labour Leavers for good and Boris or Farage could win an SNP 2015 style landslide at the next general election.
If Leave win we are back to square 1 again
We have read a lot of this nonsense from you lately. Remember you wrote the Queen will not give assent to the Benn bill on Johnson's advice. We are still waiting.
I thought you liked Salmond? How is his trial going btw?
He won first round and got over £500K. The schemers will be trying to make sure it never gets to court and all the rest of their conspiring gets published. My bet is he will do well and may not ever need to end up in court even. Some of the players will be worried.
To be pedantic the money was for exes not compo to Mr Salmond personally. But it does suggest serious issues.
Almost unheard of to get full bill with no checking etc, normally checked and they get 40% or so of requested amount. It was a massive amount of cash. They were seriously annoyed at the plaintiffs and government machinations and underhand actions. They folded to save Sturgeon's personal secretary being forced to take the stand , knowing she had been at civil service meetings. Whole thing is extremely odd. PS: will be very interesting case in which I am sure many of the protagonists are not looking forward to. Sure to be lots of skullduggery to come out I am sure.
I think there is a chance of a deal with Swinson here - if the LDs swallow their objection to Corbyn as temporary PM of a government supported by all the opposition parties he will offer a second referendum.
Except that the balance of power in Parliament is now held by the independents, and nearly all of them are deeply hostile to Corbyn. The TIGs pretty much exist because of opposition to Corbyn, figures like Field and Woodcock aren't going to put him in power, neither is Lady Hermon, and then we also have to ask how many of the whipless Tories are going to set aside a lifetime of convictions and give assent to a krypto-communist PM. We've clearly not heard from all of them on this matter yet, but I distinctly recall Spreadsheet Phil, for one, saying that he would rather boil his own head than vote confidence in Corbyn. Letwin has also said he'd contemplate no confidencing Johnson but not voting for Corbyn.
Excluding the Deputy Speakers, Lab + SNP + LD + Plaid + Green = 301 MPs. Corbyn needs 320 to guarantee winning a VONC. Where do the 19 independents prepared to back him come from? I don't see it happening.
If Johnson resigns and puts Corbyn into bat, then he can VONC Corbyn immediately and be almost guaranteed of success. That's how he gets out of asking for the A50 extension, and can force a GE into the bargain.
Not a tactic without risk (it legitimises Corbyn as PM and could invoke a “give him a go” mentality) but probably his best bet is to resign now and let events take their turn. I don’t think he gains anything from hanging around being hamstrung.
The risk is that Corbyn doesn’t call an election after extending, but another referendum. With whipped Labour votes and the support of the SNP and Lib Dems he might just get that through. If remain won that vote, it would neutralise the Tories biggest card for at least a little while and might make them less appealing in an election.
EDIT 2: I think he should give a VONC a go on Monday though.
Referendum on what though? Hed need to renegotiate first and would need at least a year extension from the EU which given the instability of a Corbyn premiership they would be very loathe to give him
I think there is a chance of a deal with Swinson here - if the LDs swallow their objection to Corbyn as temporary PM of a government supported by all the opposition parties he will offer a second referendum.
And what on earth would the question be?
I've got an idea.
Do you want to Remain in the EU?
Or
Do you want to Remain in the EU?
And why not put in a "triple lock" so that anyone north of the M25 to Hardians Wall can't vote. Anyone over 50 can't vote. And anyone with an IQ under 120 can't vote (IQ tests would have to be enforced at the polling station of course)
Comments
Hansard link
The aim here -- which you /appear/ to be buying into -- is to portray a fascist politics as a politics of innocence, by stoking psychosexual fears in the general population.
In Russia, the process is mediated through the image of western politics being inherently homosexual, but since homophobia is dying in the west, different targets are chosen. So a mixture of the "great replacement" nonsense that Orban was rambling on about has been doing the rounds the last few years, and now we're moving onto the kind of stuff you're bringing up.
It's Bannonist shite, designed to turn people to the path of fear and hatred, and to smuggle in a fascist ideology. See also Putin, Zaldostanov, Bannon, Manafort.
But it needs to be done with a little bit of tact. Being an absolute dick about it will also lose him votes.
Why can't these girls wear skirts in school? Politically correct dogma. Simple as that.
Also worth noting that Prorogation during the 14 days is a non starter as the Cabinet Manual states :
"While the government retains its responsibility to govern and ministers remain in charge of their departments, governments are expected by convention to observe discretion in initiating any new action of a continuing or long-term character in the period immediately preceding an election, immediately afterwards if the result is unclear, and following the loss of a vote of confidence. In all three circumstances essential business must be allowed
to continue."
I'm talking about the "culture war" crap.
There is nothing paranoid about identifying the fascism at the heart of the Russian state, it is well documented. Putin himself says his favourite "philosopher" is Ivan Ilyin, and the Russian state has funded and supported fascist parties in Europe.
In both cases silly, they should let the kids wear skirts and shorts. But a front in the culture war? Not seeing it.
But in all seriousness, I wasn't calling you "of the left", you plonker, I was talking about the left commentariat including the Guardian, in which Soames was interviewed.
If no-deal is so popular and the only choice it needs to be tested. Unless you are chicken of course
We avoided talking about Brexit but it was being loudly discussed at table beside me.
I was drawn to repeated references to Brexit
They were not of the 50 plus generation but were animatedly discussing the need to leave
If his seat was 60% leave, then to say that "very few" of the labour voters voted leave is plainly wrong.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/tony-blair-simple-referendum-solve-115207995.html
In a divided country, whichever side reaches out to the middle wins, it is fairly obvious.
It was her decision to ask for and vote for an extension which cost the Tories so much support and Boris will not repeat the mistake.
(Of course most Tory MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement at least once, most Labour and LD MPs voted against it)
That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
Go cluck yourself.
Love it. On Rees Mogg: "He is an absolute fraud, he is a living example of what a moderately cut double-breasted suit and a decent tie can do with an ultra-posh voice and a bit of ginger stuck up his arse. You do not behave like that as leader of the House.” Both men went to Eton but Sir Nicholas says Rees-Mogg’s behaviour has nothing to do with his school. “I thought it was bloody bad manners and he of all people should know better. He has had all the advantages and frankly nanny made a serious bish. I wanted to kick him firmly in the arse and say, ‘What the hell do you think you are playing at? Sit up!’ ” His speech in the Brexit debate was “the lowest form of student union hackery, insolence and bad manners”.
I love how Nick Soames is now being heralded by the left as some paragon of virtue, when in the past they have viewed him with contempt as a bed-blocker with old-fashioned views. His name isn't mentioned now without "grandson of Winston Churchill" added on the end. A distinctly average politician, regardless of who his grandfather was.
I am not "of the left" you plonker. I am a former constituency party chairman of the once great Conservative Party. That was before it was taken over by hoodlums liars and nutters
I bet the party is gutted it has lost you....
But in all seriousness, I wasn't calling you "of the left", you plonker, I was talking about the left commentariat including the Guardian, in which Soames was interviewed.
The "Party" is now Conservative in Name Only, so no, I doubt they are. Nick Soames is an excellent individual, and will be a great loss to parliament if he is not returned after the next election. The incompetent Boris Johnson and his cabal of extremists are not fit to lick the boots of the likes of Nick Soames or Ken Clarke. This government is made up of lightweight idiots, which is why we are in the state we are in.
If it was left to the likes of you the Tory Party would be back at the 9% it got in the European Parliament elections after May extended and the Brexit Party would be on the 30%+ rating the Tories are now under Boris, as Farage got in the European Parliament elections
The party is now left to the likes of you, which is why it will die, unless the grown ups are put back in charge. The best and greatest organisations in the world encourage innovation, discussion and sometimes dissent. The worst ones have incompetent leaders, and braindead followers that lap up the populist crap that their low grade "leaders" pass to them. You are welcome to such an organisation. It suits you.
I’ve never voted Tory but those 21 MPs when push came to shove did the right thing for their country .
The bizarre thing about Brexit , although it’s divided the country it’s actually led to some unlikely friendships in the Commons .
Nota bene, I have never watched an episode of Love Island.
I disagree with that analysis. I find it unlikely that a PM who gets 80% of decisions right is worse than a PM who gets 65% of decisions right, even if the 80% PM got their big decision wrong, and the 65% PM got their big decision right. It was probably just variance.
There’s no quick ending to the mess we’re in. We all just have to decide which truly terrible Act Three we want to live through; unless by some miracle MPs can grow up and pass some form of deal with a view to a compromise Brexit. Spoiler - that won’t now happen.
I am not "of the left" you plonker. I am a former constituency party chairman of the once great Conservative Party. That was before it was taken over by hoodlums liars and nutters
I bet the party is gutted it has lost you....
But in all seriousness, I wasn't calling you "of the left", you plonker, I was talking about the left commentariat including the Guardian, in which Soames was interviewed.
The "Party" is now Conservative in Name Only, so no, I doubt they are. Nick Soames is an excellent individual, and will be a great loss to parliament if he is not returned after the next election. The incompetent Boris Johnson and his cabal of extremists are not fit to lick the boots of the likes of Nick Soames or Ken Clarke. This government is made up of lightweight idiots, which is why we are in the state we are in.
If it was left to the likes of you the Tory Party would be back at the 9% it got in the European Parliament elections after May extended and the Brexit Party would be on the 30%+ rating the Tories are now under Boris, as Farage got in the European Parliament elections
The party is now left to the likes of you, which is why it will die, unless the grown ups are put back in charge. The best and greatest organisations in the world encourage innovation, discussion and sometimes dissent. The worst ones have incompetent leaders, and braindead followers that lap up the populist crap that their low grade "leaders" pass to them. You are welcome to such an organisation. It suits you.
No the Tories would have died if they had allowed the Brexit Party to overtake them as the main party of the right, they would have suffered the same fate as the Progressive Conservatives in 1993 when they were trounced and overtaken by the Reform Party, probably eventually being taken over by the Brexit Party as the Progressive Conservatives were taken over by the Alliance, the Reform Party's successor party, to form the current Conservative Party of Canada
There is quite a population of older Tories who are one nation moderates, including many leavers. In my patch the marginalising of Rory Stewart will not go down well with quite a number, nationally Kenneth Clarke is respected by a lot of older voters. The complicating and under explored issue is that the referendum result by definition split the moderate centre ground vote - the very people who are centre ground Tory and Labour. Because it was 16m v 17m votes it is not moderates v extremists. It is moderates v moderates. There are not enough extremists to go round. Which is why polarising around this issue, creating caricatures, is so dangerous and TMs deal is the most reconciling possibility available.
I am not "of the left" you plonker. I am a former constituency party chairman of the once great Conservative Party. That was before it was taken over by hoodlums liars and nutters
I bet the party is gutted it has lost you....
But in all seriousness, I wasn't calling you "of the left", you plonker, I was talking about the left commentariat including the Guardian, in which Soames was interviewed.
The "Party" is now Conservative in Name Only, so no, I doubt they are. Nick Soames is an excellent individual, and will be a great loss to parliament if he is not returned after the next election. The incompetent Boris Johnson and his cabal of extremists are not fit to lick the boots of the likes of Nick Soames or Ken Clarke. This government is made up of lightweight idiots, which is why we are in the state we are in.
If it was left to the likes of you the Tory Party would be back at the 9% it got in the European Parliament elections after May extended and the Brexit Party would be on the 30%+ rating the Tories are now under Boris, as Farage got in the European Parliament elections
The party is now left to the likes of you, which is why it will die, unless the grown ups are put back in charge. The best and greatest organisations in the world encourage innovation, discussion and sometimes dissent. The worst ones have incompetent leaders, and braindead followers that lap up the populist crap that their low grade "leaders" pass to them. You are welcome to such an organisation. It suits you.
Sorry for copying the lot but this is an intra Con bicker of real colour and quality.
It's why I come here.
❤
Ive been looking but cant find any.
If Leave win we are back to square 1 again
Excluding the Deputy Speakers, Lab + SNP + LD + Plaid + Green = 301 MPs. Corbyn needs 320 to guarantee winning a VONC. Where do the 19 independents prepared to back him come from? I don't see it happening.
If Johnson resigns and puts Corbyn into bat, then he can VONC Corbyn immediately and be almost guaranteed of success. That's how he gets out of asking for the A50 extension, and can force a GE into the bargain.
Meeting Mugabe in 2017 and being super friends with him was a sub optimal moment for him, as was his continual trolling of John Prescott with a snobby 'gin and tonic steward' whenever Prescott came into the chamber
Wish I hadn't done that. Was thinking virtually no chance of him being 'put in' without troubling the voters but not so sure about that now.
Still don't really see it but gosh - imagine.
MPs that didn’t vote for the WA a disgrace failed to respect the referendum
MPs that voted to stop nomdalma disgrace failed to respect the teferendum
Try telling people they are different MPs on the whole you get shouted down for letting facts get in the way. If you actually suggest that they may actually believe that no deal is disastrous even more derision. WE WANT IT DONE when you ask what happens next WE WANT IT DONE. Suggest that we may have to discuss leaving with the EU, WE WANT ....... There is no desire to debate or listen to alternatives.
The risk is that Corbyn doesn’t call an election after extending, but another referendum. With whipped Labour votes and the support of the SNP and Lib Dems he might just get that through. If remain won that vote, it would neutralise the Tories biggest card for at least a little while and might make them less appealing in an election.
EDIT 2: I think he should give a VONC a go on Monday though.
I still think an absolute copper-bottomed commitment for a second referendum will sway everyone [ maybe not the TIGs - they don't want a GE also as they are looking at unemployment ]. Corbyn will be hugely circumscribed anyway because of arithmetic. His statement today regarding GE or a public vote is not a typo. Lefties do not make typos. They are nerds when it comes to statements , resolutions etc.
Whole thing is extremely odd.
PS: will be very interesting case in which I am sure many of the protagonists are not looking forward to. Sure to be lots of skullduggery to come out I am sure.
Hey but I tipped you to lay 2019 Ref2 back when it was about 4 remember. Told you that was a 10 shot at best. 25 now.
☺
I've got an idea.
Do you want to Remain in the EU?
Or
Do you want to Remain in the EU?
And why not put in a "triple lock" so that anyone north of the M25 to Hardians Wall can't vote. Anyone over 50 can't vote. And anyone with an IQ under 120 can't vote (IQ tests would have to be enforced at the polling station of course)