This being from the same Commons which voted down the only Deal on the table THREE times? Outrageous
What do you expect.
Boris/Cummings have enraged and united those who support a deal but not a no deal, those who want a referendum, those wanting to revoke, and it looks like they will easily get the numbers to force Boris to stop a no deal
Indeed. And those forces spread wide across the political spectrum too. John Major seems fired up. Not something one could often say!
Maybe Edwina might !!!!
Not an image for this time of night, thank you! Incidentally, my partner was once brought on to a radio discussion show, ostensibly to argue with Ms Currie. They got on like a house on fire in the hospitality beforehand, politely agreed to disagree on air, and naturally were never invited back. They sank a few in the pub afterwards, too.
That the Monarchy may take a hit from people either confused about how our system works and who for some reason want to replace the monarch becasue she doesn't have power over the PM in any genuine way and they want the monarch to have that power, is one thing. But the tumescent joy of some that they might be able to give the republican cause a shot in the arm off the back of this situation is both blatant and overdone. The sheer unbridled glee at being able to take advantage of an at best tangentially related situation for an otherwise minorly supported cause, the beloved tactic of extremist revolutionaries everywhere. Let's use anger at this one thing in order to rile up against this other thing!
And I agree with you even though I am a republican
It is not the Queens fault
Its not but this was bound to happen the moment Boris got her involved.
Nice one Boris.
As I said yesterday, she made a serious mistake yesterday morning.
The Queen has one job. She flunked it.
I disagree.
Constitutionally the Queen is free to decide whether or not to go along with the government’s plans or support the sovereign parliament. The convention though is the Queen does what she’s told by the PM, and her smartest move is to stick to that as she is doing.
But in normal times the PM has full support of a majority in the Commons. So Its difficult spot for the queen, But whose fault is it that it’s getting more difficult for her Johnsons or Corbyn’s? I would lay the blame at door of Corbyn, yet more evidence the man and those around him are mendacious. That letter would have been better jointly signed by all opposition leaders in parliament, if it was a good idea. The fact Corbyn and Swinson can’t and won’t do such stuff jointly is measure of Boris power and their weakness.
But even then such letter spotlights the impotence of the Queen and the role of the monarch’s powers. So only an anti monarchist could think that letter dragging the queen into this a good idea. The Tory press are justified tearing Corbyn to shreds over this, and his party inciting rioting and violence following a nod from their leader.
It’s actually been a pretty abysmal 48hrs from the opposition and how they have handled Cummings cunning trap and control of the news agenda. Backstop and negotiation should be the main story in town.
Diehard Remainers refused to respect the Leave vote, refused to vote for the compromise of the Withdrawal Agreement and refused to support No Deal. They left Boris and Cummings no choice but to deliver the Leave vote which won the EU referendum by whatever means necessary and deliver it they will!
How is your response not equally as complacent, given the conceipt of the header is not necessarily that it won't be delivered but that even if he does there will be trouble? ("But let’s assume that somehow Boris Johnson throws all those sixes and gets Brexit over the line (almost certainly on a no-deal basis because how is he going to get a deal approved with Parliament so decisively against him?). Then what?")
You've addressed in typical fashion your anger at those seeking to stymie Brexit (although oddly you are angry at the people who refused to vote for the compromise like, er, many of those you now support the most), but complacently ignored the part about what if Boris does deliver?
I presume you think it will all be fine if he delivers, so why not say so and not look like you are being complacent about the risks of winning in this fashion?
Also, could you please write the word remainer for me? I want to see if you are capable of doign so without adding 'diehard' before it - not that I am critical of use of term in all circumstances.
Most Leaver MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement, most Remainer MPs voted against the Withdrawal Agreement.
If Boris delivers Brexit he will win the next general election, if he does not he will lose it, it is that simple
This being from the same Commons which voted down the only Deal on the table THREE times? Outrageous
What do you expect.
Boris/Cummings have enraged and united those who support a deal but not a no deal, those who want a referendum, those wanting to revoke, and it looks like they will easily get the numbers to force Boris to stop a no deal
Indeed. And those forces spread wide across the political spectrum too. John Major seems fired up. Not something one could often say!
Maybe Edwina might !!!!
Not an image for this time of night, thank you! Incidentally, my partner was once brought on to a radio discussion show, ostensibly to argue with Ms Currie. They got on like a house on fire in the hospitality beforehand, politely agreed to disagree on air, and naturally were never invited back. They sank a few in the pub afterwards, too.
She does seem good fun to be fair
The good lady won't hear a word against her, despite being of the Corbynite persuasion.
Diehard Remainers refused to respect the Leave vote, refused to vote for the compromise of the Withdrawal Agreement and refused to support No Deal. They left Boris and Cummings no choice but to deliver the Leave vote which won the EU referendum by whatever means necessary and deliver it they will!
Bullshit. The Tory Party has got this wrong at every juncture, purely by denying the basic nature of the referendum outcome.
Time and again they have tried to force an agenda in a deeply partisan, unhelpful way. Time and again, the decision making has been poor and as we get deeper, the overreaches and abuses of power are bigger.
People like me, who voted remain but were initially prepared to accept the soft Brexit that SeanT assured us was inevitable, have been marginalised and radicalised to the point of outright protest. I would now walk over hot coals to see these charlatans removed from power.
And you think this is going to end well for the Tories - on the heady heights of 31% in the polls and with 40 of your MPs in outright rebellion. Good luck with that election campaign.
Complete and utter crap.
Diehard Remainers have blocked Brexit at every junction, purely by a determination to deny the will of the people and the Leave vote.
Time and again they have resisted the Withdrawal Agreement, ably assisted by the deeply partisan Corbyn Labour and the only compromise on the table for their pathetic games.
People like you have utter contempt for millions of working class Leave voters who voted to regain control of their borders and to regain sovereignty and I will do everything in my power to ensure Boris wins the next general election and you are comprehensively defeated.
And if you think your contempt for the biggest vote in postwar history is going to lead to some Remainer triumph you are in for a shock, from the Midlands to the North to Wales to the rural South the silent majority is ready to get its revenge
Still counting on life long Labour voters in safe Labour seats voting for the Tories....
No need, if enough of them vote Brexit Party or LD the Tories win the seats regardless
The Tories are heading for a worse GE result than under TM in 2017. BJ is about 20 points behind TM. BJ is a loser...
Corbyn is polling worse than he was in 2017, he is heading for a worse result than Foot with no dementia tax to save him from the savvy Boris unlike the hapless May
That the Monarchy may take a hit from people either confused about how our system works and who for some reason want to replace the monarch becasue she doesn't have power over the PM in any genuine way and they want the monarch to have that power, is one thing. But the tumescent joy of some that they might be able to give the republican cause a shot in the arm off the back of this situation is both blatant and overdone. The sheer unbridled glee at being able to take advantage of an at best tangentially related situation for an otherwise minorly supported cause, the beloved tactic of extremist revolutionaries everywhere. Let's use anger at this one thing in order to rile up against this other thing!
And I agree with you even though I am a republican
It is not the Queens fault
I'm sure a poll would find support for her and the monarchy is lower now than it was last week, I wouldn't dispute that. But when people say 'I see that' when they mean 'I really really hope that' it's like trying to present the canary as an objective report just because occasionally they might get a fact right. With apologies to TSE for that comparison, all in good fun.
It won't, according to YouGov 56% of monarchists voted Leave and 65% of republicans voted Remain, so the Queen if anything just sided with her base
That the Monarchy may take a hit from people either confused about how our system works and who for some reason want to replace the monarch becasue she doesn't have power over the PM in any genuine way and they want the monarch to have that power, is one thing. But the tumescent joy of some that they might be able to give the republican cause a shot in the arm off the back of this situation is both blatant and overdone. The sheer unbridled glee at being able to take advantage of an at best tangentially related situation for an otherwise minorly supported cause, the beloved tactic of extremist revolutionaries everywhere. Let's use anger at this one thing in order to rile up against this other thing!
And I agree with you even though I am a republican
It is not the Queens fault
I'm sure a poll would find support for her and the monarchy is lower now than it was last week, I wouldn't dispute that. But when people say 'I see that' when they mean 'I really really hope that' it's like trying to present the canary as an objective report just because occasionally they might get a fact right. With apologies to TSE for that comparison, all in good fun.
It won't, according to YouGov 56% of monarchists voted Leave and 65% of republicans voted Remain, so the Queen if anything just sided with her base
She didn't side with anybody, and putting it that way undermines things for the long term. The whole point is we agree the system works regardless of popularity of incumbent or we disagree and think the system should go regardless of incumbent - the idea of the monarch being judged by popularity of 'decision' with some base is troublesome.
Cummings to said advisor, according to those in the room: Your purview? Where do you think you are, some regency costume drama? This is a government department, not a fucking Jane fucking Austen novel! Allow me to pop a jaunty little bonnet on your purview and ram it up your shitter with a lubricated horse-cock!
All very amusing, but when are the grown-ups going to call a halt to the nonsense and start governing properly?
That the Monarchy may take a hit from people either confused about how our system works and who for some reason want to replace the monarch becasue she doesn't have power over the PM in any genuine way and they want the monarch to have that power, is one thing. But the tumescent joy of some that they might be able to give the republican cause a shot in the arm off the back of this situation is both blatant and overdone. The sheer unbridled glee at being able to take advantage of an at best tangentially related situation for an otherwise minorly supported cause, the beloved tactic of extremist revolutionaries everywhere. Let's use anger at this one thing in order to rile up against this other thing!
And I agree with you even though I am a republican
It is not the Queens fault
I'm sure a poll would find support for her and the monarchy is lower now than it was last week, I wouldn't dispute that. But when people say 'I see that' when they mean 'I really really hope that' it's like trying to present the canary as an objective report just because occasionally they might get a fact right. With apologies to TSE for that comparison, all in good fun.
It won't, according to YouGov 56% of monarchists voted Leave and 65% of republicans voted Remain, so the Queen if anything just sided with her base
The Queen doesn’t have a base. That’s the whole point, you blistering c***.
Of course she does, the institution of monarchy has to be fought for as it was in Australia where monarchists successfully saw off republicans winning 55% of the vote in the 1999 referendum
For what it is worth I do think Boris will win the next election. I do however think he will fail to unite the country and that his and his party’s legacy will be toxic beyond belief.
That the Monarchy may take a hit from people either confused about how our system works and who for some reason want to replace the monarch becasue she doesn't have power over the PM in any genuine way and they want the monarch to have that power, is one thing. But the tumescent joy of some that they might be able to give the republican cause a shot in the arm off the back of this situation is both blatant and overdone. The sheer unbridled glee at being able to take advantage of an at best tangentially related situation for an otherwise minorly supported cause, the beloved tactic of extremist revolutionaries everywhere. Let's use anger at this one thing in order to rile up against this other thing!
And I agree with you even though I am a republican
It is not the Queens fault
I'm sure a poll would find support for her and the monarchy is lower now than it was last week, I wouldn't dispute that. But when people say 'I see that' when they mean 'I really really hope that' it's like trying to present the canary as an objective report just because occasionally they might get a fact right. With apologies to TSE for that comparison, all in good fun.
It won't, according to YouGov 56% of monarchists voted Leave and 65% of republicans voted Remain, so the Queen if anything just sided with her base
Diehard Remainers refused to respect the Leave vote, refused to vote for the compromise of the Withdrawal Agreement and refused to support No Deal. They left Boris and Cummings no choice but to deliver the Leave vote which won the EU referendum by whatever means necessary and deliver it they will!
How is your response not equally as complacent, given the conceipt of the header is not necessarily that it won't be delivered but that even if he does there will be trouble? ("But let’s assume that somehow Boris Johnson throws all those sixes and gets Brexit over the line (almost certainly on a no-deal basis because how is he going to get a deal approved with Parliament so decisively against him?). Then what?")
You've addressed in typical fashion your anger at those seeking to stymie Brexit (although oddly you are angry at the people who refused to vote for the compromise like, er, many of those you now support the most), but complacently ignored the part about what if Boris does deliver?
I presume you think it will all be fine if he delivers, so why not say so and not look like you are being complacent about the risks of winning in this fashion?
Also, could you please write the word remainer for me? I want to see if you are capable of doign so without adding 'diehard' before it - not that I am critical of use of term in all circumstances.
Most Leaver MPs voted for the Withdrawal Agreement, most Remainer MPs voted against the Withdrawal Agreement.
If Boris delivers Brexit he will win the next general election, if he does not he will lose it, it is that simple
This being from the same Commons which voted down the only Deal on the table THREE times? Outrageous
What do you expect.
Boris/Cummings have enraged and united those who support a deal but not a no deal, those who want a referendum, those wanting to revoke, and it looks like they will easily get the numbers to force Boris to stop a no deal
Indeed. And those forces spread wide across the political spectrum too. John Major seems fired up. Not something one could often say!
Maybe Edwina might !!!!
Not an image for this time of night, thank you! Incidentally, my partner was once brought on to a radio discussion show, ostensibly to argue with Ms Currie. They got on like a house on fire in the hospitality beforehand, politely agreed to disagree on air, and naturally were never invited back. They sank a few in the pub afterwards, too.
She does seem good fun to be fair
The good lady won't hear a word against her, despite being of the Corbynite persuasion.
Cummings to said advisor, according to those in the room: Your purview? Where do you think you are, some regency costume drama? This is a government department, not a fucking Jane fucking Austen novel! Allow me to pop a jaunty little bonnet on your purview and ram it up your shitter with a lubricated horse-cock!
So Janes fucking Austen now? The rights to TV dramatise all this will sell for millions.
For what it is worth I do think Boris will win the next election. I do however think he will fail to unite the country and that his and his party’s legacy will be toxic beyond belief.
I don't think its possible to unite the country. I think its possible to win and vanquish your opponents and I'll settle for that.
For what it is worth I do think Boris will win the next election. I do however think he will fail to unite the country and that his and his party’s legacy will be toxic beyond belief.
Nobody is trying to unite the country. Brexiting or not Brexiting does not unite anybody but one side. If the argument is one is more destructive and toxic than the other that's one thing, but whatever words are spewed unity is not sought so not getting it doesn't matter.
For what it is worth I do think Boris will win the next election. I do however think he will fail to unite the country and that his and his party’s legacy will be toxic beyond belief.
I don't think its possible to unite the country. I think its possible to win and vanquish your opponents and I'll settle for that.
I think your comment neatly summarises everything that is wrong with Brexit.
For what it is worth I do think Boris will win the next election. I do however think he will fail to unite the country and that his and his party’s legacy will be toxic beyond belief.
I don't think its possible to unite the country. I think its possible to win and vanquish your opponents and I'll settle for that.
I think your comment neatly summarises everything that is wrong with Brexit.
No, it sums up everything right with it.
Unity in unhealthy. A hive mind is nothing to be proud of.
Competition keeps you sharp and focused. Its why our governance would probably be better if there was an actual opposition worthy of its name.
Unity would result in malaise. I hope we never have to suffer through that.
Cummings to said advisor, according to those in the room: Your purview? Where do you think you are, some regency costume drama? This is a government department, not a fucking Jane fucking Austen novel! Allow me to pop a jaunty little bonnet on your purview and ram it up your shitter with a lubricated horse-cock!
Cummings to said advisor, according to those in the room: Your purview? Where do you think you are, some regency costume drama? This is a government department, not a fucking Jane fucking Austen novel! Allow me to pop a jaunty little bonnet on your purview and ram it up your shitter with a lubricated horse-cock!
Have Cummings and @SeanT been seen in the same room?
Look how efficient the modern age has made us, you don't even need to stop your holiday to help plot anymore.
Is all this really necessary? I know a lot of them don't want Corbyn, and mistrust his longer term motives, but they can be sure he will extend so just go for the simpler option already.
For what it is worth I do think Boris will win the next election. I do however think he will fail to unite the country and that his and his party’s legacy will be toxic beyond belief.
I don't think its possible to unite the country. I think its possible to win and vanquish your opponents and I'll settle for that.
I think your comment neatly summarises everything that is wrong with Brexit.
No, it sums up everything right with it.
Unity in unhealthy. A hive mind is nothing to be proud of.
Competition keeps you sharp and focused. Its why our governance would probably be better if there was an actual opposition worthy of its name.
Unity would result in malaise. I hope we never have to suffer through that.
Nah. Don’t worry. My generation will reverse this nonsense in due course.
Cummings to said advisor, according to those in the room: Your purview? Where do you think you are, some regency costume drama? This is a government department, not a fucking Jane fucking Austen novel! Allow me to pop a jaunty little bonnet on your purview and ram it up your shitter with a lubricated horse-cock!
Bozo failing to do interviews, and not putting up ministers to defend his suspension of democracy shows the contempt that he has for the voting public.
Democracy and mass peaceful protests haven't worked.
Parliament can still stop him. Your tilting toward violent protest is beginnging to look downright eager and is quite worrying.
For what it is worth I do think Boris will win the next election. I do however think he will fail to unite the country and that his and his party’s legacy will be toxic beyond belief.
Nobody is trying to unite the country. Brexiting or not Brexiting does not unite anybody but one side. If the argument is one is more destructive and toxic than the other that's one thing, but whatever words are spewed unity is not sought so not getting it doesn't matter.
His failure to unite will not be his undoing. The reality of Brexit not being the unicorn it was in voters heads will be his undoing. Their problems will remain.
For what it is worth I do think Boris will win the next election. I do however think he will fail to unite the country and that his and his party’s legacy will be toxic beyond belief.
I don't think its possible to unite the country. I think its possible to win and vanquish your opponents and I'll settle for that.
I think your comment neatly summarises everything that is wrong with Brexit.
No, it sums up everything right with it.
Unity in unhealthy. A hive mind is nothing to be proud of.
Competition keeps you sharp and focused. Its why our governance would probably be better if there was an actual opposition worthy of its name.
Unity would result in malaise. I hope we never have to suffer through that.
Nah. Don’t worry. My generation will reverse this nonsense in due course.
Your generation? Ha! I doubt we are that far apart in generations.
Don't worry youngsters will grow up as all generations do as they mature and Brexit will cease to be shocking and instead become our new normal. My children will grow up and think of the EU as their neighbours and not something that we were a part of when they were born.
"Looming large over this pivot to action is the figure of Dominic Cummings, the PM’s de facto chief of staff and architect of the Brexit campaign. To Brexiteers, Cummings is a hero; to Remainers, he’s a villain. To almost everyone he is intriguing and alarming in equal measure. Anyone who watched his extraordinarily rude testimony to the Commons Select Committee over the referendum campaign, or observed his lofty refusal to return when invited back, would realise that he’s an unusual character. He doesn’t seem to feel fear; he is devoid of deference to authority; and he is obsessed with theory and radical thinking."
For what it is worth I do think Boris will win the next election. I do however think he will fail to unite the country and that his and his party’s legacy will be toxic beyond belief.
I don't think its possible to unite the country. I think its possible to win and vanquish your opponents and I'll settle for that.
Cummings to said advisor, according to those in the room: Your purview? Where do you think you are, some regency costume drama? This is a government department, not a fucking Jane fucking Austen novel! Allow me to pop a jaunty little bonnet on your purview and ram it up your shitter with a lubricated horse-cock!
So Janes fucking Austen now? The rights to TV dramatise all this will sell for millions.
I think @rcs1000 was trying his hand at pastiche - though in these fevered times it’s a bit hard to tell.
Alternatively he’s been sniffing Rees Mogg’s pomade, and lost it completely, like HYUFD.
For what it is worth I do think Boris will win the next election. I do however think he will fail to unite the country and that his and his party’s legacy will be toxic beyond belief.
For what it is worth I do think Boris will win the next election. I do however think he will fail to unite the country and that his and his party’s legacy will be toxic beyond belief.
I don't think its possible to unite the country. I think its possible to win and vanquish your opponents and I'll settle for that.
I think your comment neatly summarises everything that is wrong with Brexit.
No, it sums up everything right with it.
Unity in unhealthy. A hive mind is nothing to be proud of.
Competition keeps you sharp and focused. Its why our governance would probably be better if there was an actual opposition worthy of its name.
Unity would result in malaise. I hope we never have to suffer through that.
Nah. Don’t worry. My generation will reverse this nonsense in due course.
I actually believe that in the medium term the country will rejoin providing the EU do not become US of Europe
Cummings to said advisor, according to those in the room: Your purview? Where do you think you are, some regency costume drama? This is a government department, not a fucking Jane fucking Austen novel! Allow me to pop a jaunty little bonnet on your purview and ram it up your shitter with a lubricated horse-cock!
I assumed everyone on this site would know the origin of the quote. Still, I believe, one of the best pieces of swearing I've ever seen in a movie.
I love some creatively done swearing, and Armando Ianucci's work is replete with great examples, but I must say if one did encounter someone even half as vulgar as Malcom Tucker in real life they would just come across as really pathetic, probably trying to be edgy and shocking, or engaging in some childish dominance tactic that would be just plain sad. I mean, none of us are strangers to cursing I am sure, albeit with different tolerance levels of both using it and hearing it, but if someone acted like that who are they trying to impress? My favourite Thick of It episode is actually the inquiry one.
Diehard Remainers refused to respect the Leave vote, refused to vote for the compromise of the Withdrawal Agreement and refused to support No Deal. They left Boris and Cummings no choice but to deliver the Leave vote which won the EU referendum by whatever means necessary and deliver it they will!
Bullshit. The Tory Party has got this wrong at every juncture, purely by denying the basic nature of the referendum outcome.
Time and again they have tried to force an agenda in a deeply partisan, unhelpful way. Time and again, the decision making has been poor and as we get deeper, the overreaches and abuses of power are bigger.
People like me, who voted remain but were initially prepared to accept the soft Brexit that SeanT assured us was inevitable, have been marginalised and radicalised to the point of ou
And you think this is going to end well for the Tories - on the heady heights of 31% in the polls and with 40 of your MPs in outright rebellion. Good luck with that election campaign.
Complete and utter crap.
Diehard Remainers have blocked Brexit at every junction, purely by a determination to deny the will of the people and the Leave vote.
Time and again they have resisted the Withdrawal Agreement, ably assisted by the deeply partisan Corbyn Labour and the only compromise on the table for their pathetic games.
People like you have utter contempt for millions of working class Leave voters who voted to regain control of their borders and to regain sovereignty and I will do everything in my power to ensure
And if you think your contempt for the biggest vote in postwar history is going to lead to some Remainer triumph you are in for a shock, from the Midlands to the North to Wales to the rural South the silent majority is ready to get its revenge
Still counting on life long Labour voters in safe Labour seats voting for the Tories....
No need, if enough of them vote Brexit Party or LD the Tories win the seats regardless
The Tories are heading for a worse GE result than under TM in 2017. BJ is about 20 points behind TM. BJ is a loser...
Corbyn is polling worse than he was in 2017, he is heading for a worse result than Foot with no dementia tax to save him from the savvy Boris unlike the hapless May
I doubt Labour would do any worse than 2010. You clearly dont seem to understand what drives Labour voters and that is hatred of Tories. Labour voters will turnout I suspect than polls indicate. In 2010, Labour were at 22% in the campaign they finished up closer to 30%!
For what it is worth I do think Boris will win the next election. I do however think he will fail to unite the country and that his and his party’s legacy will be toxic beyond belief.
I don't think its possible to unite the country. I think its possible to win and vanquish your opponents and I'll settle for that.
How do you vanquish half the country?
They managed something along those lines in the Thirty Years’ War. Doesn’t really square with Philip’s much repeated concern for democracy, but there you go.
For what it is worth I do think Boris will win the next election. I do however think he will fail to unite the country and that his and his party’s legacy will be toxic beyond belief.
I don't think its possible to unite the country. I think its possible to win and vanquish your opponents and I'll settle for that.
How do you vanquish half the country?
You don't.
You vanquish your active political opponents, get your policy over the line and see it become normal. The half of the country that opposed you on that moves on to the future battles and debates and before long what won is now accepted wisdom. Eventually those who still wish to refight the lost battle are seen as pastiche unless the wheel turns full cicle in which case they are the new revolutionaries rather than the old guard.
After we Brexit life will move on. We'll go back to arguing over schools and hospitals and all other stuff like that. Some future next big thing will divide the country and half will line up on each side and we'll forget about Brexit as we forgot about secondary picketing.
For what it is worth I do think Boris will win the next election. I do however think he will fail to unite the country and that his and his party’s legacy will be toxic beyond belief.
I don't think its possible to unite the country. I think its possible to win and vanquish your opponents and I'll settle for that.
I think your comment neatly summarises everything that is wrong with Brexit.
No, it sums up everything right with it.
Unity in unhealthy. A hive mind is nothing to be proud of.
Competition keeps you sharp and focused. Its why our governance would probably be better if there was an actual opposition worthy of its name.
Unity would result in malaise. I hope we never have to suffer through that.
Nah. Don’t worry. My generation will reverse this nonsense in due course.
Your generation? Ha! I doubt we are that far apart in generations.
Don't worry youngsters will grow up as all generations do as they mature and Brexit will cease to be shocking and instead become our new normal. My children will grow up and think of the EU as their neighbours and not something that we were a part of when they were born.
That all depends on what happens next, and whether the UK itself disintegrates.
For what it is worth I do think Boris will win the next election. I do however think he will fail to unite the country and that his and his party’s legacy will be toxic beyond belief.
Nobody is trying to unite the country. Brexiting or not Brexiting does not unite anybody but one side. If the argument is one is more destructive and toxic than the other that's one thing, but whatever words are spewed unity is not sought so not getting it doesn't matter.
His failure to unite will not be his undoing. The reality of Brexit not being the unicorn it was in voters heads will be his undoing. Their problems will remain.
You seem to be expecting that Brexit will happen, and that he has won that battle at least. I'm far from certain of that. He's dared opponents to act, they are still scrambling around being too clever by half, but I think he may have gone too far in his gambling.
For what it is worth I do think Boris will win the next election. I do however think he will fail to unite the country and that his and his party’s legacy will be toxic beyond belief.
I don't think its possible to unite the country. I think its possible to win and vanquish your opponents and I'll settle for that.
How do you vanquish half the country?
You don't.
You vanquish your active political opponents, get your policy over the line and see it become normal. The half of the country that opposed you on that moves on to the future battles and debates and before long what won is now accepted wisdom. Eventually those who still wish to refight the lost battle are seen as pastiche unless the wheel turns full cicle in which case they are the new revolutionaries rather than the old guard.
After we Brexit life will move on. We'll go back to arguing over schools and hospitals and all other stuff like that. Some future next big thing will divide the country and half will line up on each side and we'll forget about Brexit as we forgot about secondary picketing.
If you actually think Brexit will be over after a ‘no deal’ on 31st October then I have a lovely bridge to sell you.
Fighting fantasy series were the nuts. I remember reading / doing them on long car journies around this time of year as we travelled on holiday.
The main thing I learnt from them was to place a crafty finger on each page a few decisions back in case I needed to reverse my fate. Sadly this strategy has proven unavailable in real life.
Diehard Remainers refused to respect the Leave vote, refused to vote for the compromise of the Withdrawal Agreement and refused to support No Deal. They left Boris and Cummings no choice but to deliver the Leave vote which won the EU referendum by whatever means necessary and deliver it they will!
It needs some brexiteers to submit some thread headers. You learn nothing if you don’t get a bit of the other POV from time to time.
That reminds me, I came across one of the cheesiest most cliched examples of this the other day.
A lesson if we are doing a thread header, keep it real.
It's not easy to write a thread header. The number who could produce one to the required standard is pretty small.
Edit: Also the pay's low and you get a lot of crap from people who get the service for free but nevertheless consider they are entitled to insult you for providing it.
Required standard?
Just got to start off saying something like, when I was a kid I had an imaginary friend, biffy bongo. Build the narrative around biffy bongo’s brutal murder and how that ties in with what Johnson’s doing to democracy right now. Finish up singing the smelly Mogg song “Smelly Mogg, smel-ly Mogg, what are they feeding you? Smelly Mogg, smel-ly Mogg, it's all your effing fault.” and a salute to remain.
For what it is worth I do think Boris will win the next election. I do however think he will fail to unite the country and that his and his party’s legacy will be toxic beyond belief.
I don't think its possible to unite the country. I think its possible to win and vanquish your opponents and I'll settle for that.
I think your comment neatly summarises everything that is wrong with Brexit.
No, it sums up everything right with it.
Unity in unhealthy. A hive mind is nothing to be proud of.
Competition keeps you sharp and focused. Its why our governance would probably be better if there was an actual opposition worthy of its name.
Unity would result in malaise. I hope we never have to suffer through that.
Nah. Don’t worry. My generation will reverse this nonsense in due course.
Your generation? Ha! I doubt we are that far apart in generations.
Don't worry youngsters will grow up as all generations do as they mature and Brexit will cease to be shocking and instead become our new normal. My children will grow up and think of the EU as their neighbours and not something that we were a part of when they were born.
That all depends on what happens next, and whether the UK itself disintegrates.
Yes to the first, no to the second.
Life always depends upon what happens next, while whether the UK itself disintegrates is surprisingly moot.
The best hope of rejoiners ironically is that not much happens next, because if stuff does happen next that will take the attention and focus away from Brexit. Those who wish to keep harping back to Brexit will seem rather absurd when the rest of us are moving on, like those still banging on about Iraq during the Financial Crisis.
Fighting fantasy series were the nuts. I remember reading / doing them on long car journies around this time of year as we travelled on holiday.
The main thing I learnt from them was to place a crafty finger on each page a few decisions back in case I needed to reverse my fate. Sadly this strategy has proven unavailable in real life.
Oh no you cant do that.....thats worse than proroging parliament to try and get your way!
I doubt Labour would do any worse than 2010. You clearly dont seem to understand what drives Labour voters and that is hatred of Tories. Labour voters will turnout I suspect than polls indicate. In 2010, Labour were at 22% in the campaign they finished up closer to 30%!
The stakes are very very high - however disgusted with Labour many are, are such people really going to let a Tory win in a seat they would otherwise lose by splitting the vote? When Brexit/fascism is the alternative in their eyes?
I thought last time Labour would do better than expected (though I still very much underestimated how well they ended up doing) for that reason, and while Corbyn has more negatives against him now, Boris and his actions mean the Tories have even more as well, so even more reason to tactically vote against him. Which means it all comes down to whether BXP stand in lots of places as they promise and whether Boris's gamble that he has won them over sufficiently is correct.
This is old school Labour country. Radcliffe First are campaigning for better schools, affordable housing and better town centre provisions. These people might have voted for Brexit but they are certainly not going to vote for The Tories or the Lib Dems.
Bozo failing to do interviews, and not putting up ministers to defend his suspension of democracy shows the contempt that he has for the voting public.
Democracy and mass peaceful protests haven't worked.
Parliament can still stop him. Your tilting toward violent protest is beginnging to look downright eager and is quite worrying.
When people are denied democratic expression, they shift to other means. I would expect the same with Revoke.
"Looming large over this pivot to action is the figure of Dominic Cummings, the PM’s de facto chief of staff and architect of the Brexit campaign. To Brexiteers, Cummings is a hero; to Remainers, he’s a villain. To almost everyone he is intriguing and alarming in equal measure. Anyone who watched his extraordinarily rude testimony to the Commons Select Committee over the referendum campaign, or observed his lofty refusal to return when invited back, would realise that he’s an unusual character. He doesn’t seem to feel fear; he is devoid of deference to authority; and he is obsessed with theory and radical thinking."
Looks that way. And then the GE is a Johnson landslide.
That Seamus Milne strategy of Tory chaos is looking a bit ropey tonight.
Not always, it was the poll tax riots that put the figurative final nail in Maggies political coffin.
Riots supported by Corbyn would finish him off completely
Is there any evidence for the "No Dealer Corbyn" inspired riots apart from an article in the Borisgraph and a few tweets from loony hard leftists?
The only other evidence I’ve seen is the rubbing together of hands by one or two frothing crypto-fascists on here who are twitching for the resultant “crack-down”.
Bozo failing to do interviews, and not putting up ministers to defend his suspension of democracy shows the contempt that he has for the voting public.
Democracy and mass peaceful protests haven't worked.
Parliament can still stop him. Your tilting toward violent protest is beginnging to look downright eager and is quite worrying.
When people are denied democratic expression, they shift to other means. I would expect the same with Revoke.
You don't seem to be expecting it, you seem to be welcoming it, willing it.
For what it is worth I do think Boris will win the next election. I do however think he will fail to unite the country and that his and his party’s legacy will be toxic beyond belief.
I don't think its possible to unite the country. I think its possible to win and vanquish your opponents and I'll settle for that.
I think your comment neatly summarises everything that is wrong with Brexit.
No, it sums up everything right with it.
Unity in unhealthy. A hive mind is nothing to be proud of.
Competition keeps you sharp and focused. Its why our governance would probably be better if there was an actual opposition worthy of its name.
Unity would result in malaise. I hope we never have to suffer through that.
Nah. Don’t worry. My generation will reverse this nonsense in due course.
Your generation? Ha! I doubt we are that far apart in generations.
Don't worry youngsters will grow up as all generations do as they mature and Brexit will cease to be shocking and instead become our new normal. My children will grow up and think of the EU as their neighbours and not something that we were a part of when they were born.
That all depends on what happens next, and whether the UK itself disintegrates.
Yes to the first, no to the second.
Life always depends upon what happens next, while whether the UK itself disintegrates is surprisingly moot.
The best hope of rejoiners ironically is that not much happens next, because if stuff does happen next that will take the attention and focus away from Brexit. Those who wish to keep harping back to Brexit will seem rather absurd when the rest of us are moving on, like those still banging on about Iraq during the Financial Crisis.
Everything we are now experiencing is a direct result of Iraq and the Financial Crisis.
Diehard Remainers refused to respect the Leave vote, refused to vote for the compromise of the Withdrawal Agreement and refused to support No Deal. They left Boris and Cummings no choice but to deliver the Leave vote which won the EU referendum by whatever means necessary and deliver it they will!
It needs some brexiteers to submit some thread headers. You learn nothing if you don’t get a bit of the other POV from time to time.
That reminds me, I came across one of the cheesiest most cliched examples of this the other day.
A lesson if we are doing a thread header, keep it real.
It's not easy to write a thread header. The number who could produce one to the required standard is pretty small.
Edit: Also the pay's low and you get a lot of crap from people who get the service for free but nevertheless consider they are entitled to insult you for providing it.
Required standard?
Just got to start off saying something like, when I was a kid I had an imaginary friend, biffy bongo. Build the narrative around biffy bongo’s brutal murder and how that ties in with what Johnson’s doing to democracy right now. Finish up singing the smelly Mogg song “Smelly Mogg, smel-ly Mogg, what are they feeding you? Smelly Mogg, smel-ly Mogg, it's all your effing fault.” and a salute to remain.
Do it then. Mike is always eager to receive pieces from new contributors.
Diehard Remainers refused to respect the Leave vote, refused to vote for the compromise of the Withdrawal Agreement and refused to support No Deal. They left Boris and Cummings no choice but to deliver the Leave vote which won the EU referendum by whatever means necessary and deliver it they will!
Bullshit. The Tory Party has got this wrong at every juncture, purely by denying the basic nature of the referendum outcome.
Time and again they have tried to force an agenda in a deeply partisan, unhelpful way. Time and again, the decision making has been poor and as we get deeper, the overreaches and abuses of power are bigger.
People like me, who voted remain but were initially prepared to accept the soft Brexit that SeanT assured us was inevitable, have been marginalised and radicalised to the point of ou
And you think this is going to end well for the Tories - on the heady heights of 31% in the polls and with 40 of your MPs in outright rebellion. Good luck with that election campaign.
Complete and utter crap.
Diehard Remainers have blocked Brexit at every junction, purely by a determination to deny the will of the people and the Leave vote.
Time and again they have resisted the Withdrawal Agreement, ably assisted by the deeply partisan Corbyn Labour and the only compromise on the table for their pathetic games.
People like e
Still counting on life long Labour voters in safe Labour seats voting for the Tories....
No need, if enough of them vote Brexit Party or LD the Tories win the seats regardless
The Tories are heading for a worse GE result than under TM in 2017. BJ is about 20 points behind TM. BJ is a loser...
Corbyn is polling worse than he was in 2017, he is heading for a worse result than Foot with no dementia tax to save him from the savvy Boris unlike the hapless May
I doubt Labour would do any worse than 2010. You clearly dont seem to understand what drives Labour voters and that is hatred of Tories. Labour voters will turnout I suspect than polls indicate. In 2010, Labour were at 22% in the campaign they finished up closer to 30%!
Labour tribal voters maybe but they are not much more than 25% as 1983 proved, if that, Corbyn only got 40% in 2017 as centrist Remainers lent their votes to Labour, they now hate Corbyn as much as Boris and will stick with the LDs
For what it is worth I do think Boris will win the next election. I do however think he will fail to unite the country and that his and his party’s legacy will be toxic beyond belief.
I don't think its possible to unite the country. I think its possible to win and vanquish your opponents and I'll settle for that.
How do you vanquish half the country?
You don't.
You vanquish your active political opponents, get your policy over the line and see it become normal. The half of the country that opposed you on that moves on to the future battles and debates and before long what won is now accepted wisdom. Eventually those who still wish to refight the lost battle are seen as pastiche unless the wheel turns full cicle in which case they are the new revolutionaries rather than the old guard.
After we Brexit life will move on. We'll go back to arguing over schools and hospitals and all other stuff like that. Some future next big thing will divide the country and half will line up on each side and we'll forget about Brexit as we forgot about secondary picketing.
If you actually think Brexit will be over after a ‘no deal’ on 31st October then I have a lovely bridge to sell you.
I never said that. I said two parts get it over the line [31st October] and "see it become normal" that requires the passage of time and acceptance.
Brexit is most vulnerable before it happens, when it can be aborted. After it has happened it is most vulnerable immediately after - a General Election during a transition for instance could easily be won by a party seeking to rejoin or a rejoin referendum.
The further we go past Brexit day the more normalised it becomes. Come the 2030s we'll have voters who don't really remember being in the EU, come the 2040s the idea of having once been in the EU will be a story old folks might talk about like Woodstock. Come the 2060s it will be like banging on about WWII when I was a child - an age for history books you really can't relate to at all.
Diehard Remainers refused to respect the Leave vote, refused to vote for the compromise of the Withdrawal Agreement and refused to support No Deal. They left Boris and Cummings no choice but to deliver the Leave vote which won the EU referendum by whatever means necessary and deliver it they will!
Bullshit. The Tory Party has got this wrong at every juncture, purely by denying the basic nature of the referendum outcome.
Time and again they have tried to force an agenda in a deeply partisan, unhelpful way. Time and again, the decision making has been poor and as we get deeper, the overreaches and abuses of power are bigger.
People like me, who voted remain but were initially prepared to accept the soft Brexit that SeanT assured us was inevitable, have been marginalised and radicalised to the point of ou
And you think this is going to end well for the Tories - on the heady heights of 31% in the polls and with 40 of your MPs in outright rebellion. Good luck with that election campaign.
Complete and utter crap.
Diehard Remainers have blocked Brexit at every junction, purely by a determination to deny the will of the people and the Leave vote.
Time and again they have resisted the Withdrawal Agreement, ably assisted by the deeply partisan Corbyn Labour and the only compromise on the table for their pathetic games.
People like e
Still counting on life long Labour voters in safe Labour seats voting for the Tories....
No need, if enough of them vote Brexit Party or LD the Tories win the seats regardless
The Tories are heading for a worse GE result than under TM in 2017. BJ is about 20 points behind TM. BJ is a loser...
Corbyn is polling worse than he was in 2017, he is heading for a worse result than Foot with no dementia tax to save him from the savvy Boris unlike the hapless May
I doubt Labour would do any worse than 2010. You clearly dont seem to understand what drives Labour voters and that is hatred of Tories. Labour voters will turnout I suspect than polls indicate. In 2010, Labour were at 22% in the campaign they finished up closer to 30%!
Labour tribal voters maybe but they are not much more than 25% as 1983 proved, if that, Corbyn only got 40% in 2017 as centrist Remainers lent their votes to Labour, they now hate Corbyn as much as Boris and will stick with the LDs
For what it is worth I do think Boris will win the next election. I do however think he will fail to unite the country and that his and his party’s legacy will be toxic beyond belief.
I agree. The next election will be 1992 x 10.
So what. 1992 was a historic triumph and a 4th Tory term that saw off a possible socialist government and enabled the more centrist New Labour.
If Boris wins another historic 4th Tory term and beats Corbyn and delivers Brexit I could live with over a decade in opposition after that triumph
Bozo failing to do interviews, and not putting up ministers to defend his suspension of democracy shows the contempt that he has for the voting public.
Democracy and mass peaceful protests haven't worked.
Parliament can still stop him. Your tilting toward violent protest is beginnging to look downright eager and is quite worrying.
When people are denied democratic expression, they shift to other means. I would expect the same with Revoke.
Non-violent civil disobedience is well justified in these circumstances.
For what it is worth I do think Boris will win the next election. I do however think he will fail to unite the country and that his and his party’s legacy will be toxic beyond belief.
I don't think its possible to unite the country. I think its possible to win and vanquish your opponents and I'll settle for that.
How do you vanquish half the country?
You don't.
You vanquish your active political opponents, get your policy over the line and see it become normal. The half of the country that opposed you on that moves on to the future battles and debates and before long what won is now accepted wisdom. Eventually those who still wish to refight the lost battle are seen as pastiche unless the wheel turns full cicle in which case they are the new revolutionaries rather than the old guard.
After we Brexit life will move on. We'll go back to arguing over schools and hospitals and all other stuff like that. Some future next big thing will divide the country and half will line up on each side and we'll forget about Brexit as we forgot about secondary picketing.
If you actually think Brexit will be over after a ‘no deal’ on 31st October then I have a lovely bridge to sell you.
I never said that. I said two parts get it over the line [31st October] and "see it become normal" that requires the passage of time and acceptance.
Brexit is most vulnerable before it happens, when it can be aborted. After it has happened it is most vulnerable immediately after - a General Election during a transition for instance could easily be won by a party seeking to rejoin or a rejoin referendum.
The further we go past Brexit day the more normalised it becomes. Come the 2030s we'll have voters who don't really remember being in the EU, come the 2040s the idea of having once been in the EU will be a story old folks might talk about like Woodstock. Come the 2060s it will be like banging on about WWII when I was a child - an age for history books you really can't relate to at all.
You do realise that Brexit has happened due to the nostalgia of people bleating on about the war, 70 years after the fact?
For what it is worth I do think Boris will win the next election. I do however think he will fail to unite the country and that his and his party’s legacy will be toxic beyond belief.
I don't think its possible to unite the country. I think its possible to win and vanquish your opponents and I'll settle for that.
I think your comment neatly summarises everything that is wrong with Brexit.
No, it sums up everything right with it.
Unity in unhealthy. A hive mind is nothing to be proud of.
Competition keeps you sharp and focused. Its why our governance would probably be better if there was an actual opposition worthy of its name.
Unity would result in malaise. I hope we never have to suffer through that.
Nah. Don’t worry. My generation will reverse this nonsense in due course.
Your generation? Ha! I doubt we are that far apart in generations.
Don't worry youngsters will grow up as all generations do as they mature and Brexit will cease to be shocking and instead become our new normal. My children will grow up and think of the EU as their neighbours and not something that we were a part of when they were born.
That all depends on what happens next, and whether the UK itself disintegrates.
Yes to the first, no to the second.
Life always depends upon what happens next, while whether the UK itself disintegrates is surprisingly moot.
The best hope of rejoiners ironically is that not much happens next, because if stuff does happen next that will take the attention and focus away from Brexit. Those who wish to keep harping back to Brexit will seem rather absurd when the rest of us are moving on, like those still banging on about Iraq during the Financial Crisis.
Everything we are now experiencing is a direct result of Iraq and the Financial Crisis.
And people might associate the next crisis with Brexit, but they're more likely to argue over the crisis and how we face it than to revisit Brexit.
Just as when I first voted in the noughties people of my generation frequently blamed Thatcherism for ills [real or perceived] but Thatcher's reforms largely were not reversed. Inertia is a powerful force.
Fighting fantasy series were the nuts. I remember reading / doing them on long car journies around this time of year as we travelled on holiday.
The main thing I learnt from them was to place a crafty finger on each page a few decisions back in case I needed to reverse my fate. Sadly this strategy has proven unavailable in real life.
Oh no you cant do that.....thats worse than proroging parliament to try and get your way!
I better not tell you my approach to the dice rolls.....
For what it is worth I do think Boris will win the next election. I do however think he will fail to unite the country and that his and his party’s legacy will be toxic beyond belief.
I don't think its possible to unite the country. I think its possible to win and vanquish your opponents and I'll settle for that.
How do you vanquish half the country?
You don't.
You vanquish your active political opponents, get your policy over the line and see it become normal. The half of the country that opposed you on that moves on to the future battles and debates and before long what won is now accepted wisdom. Eventually those who still wish to refight the lost battle are seen as pastiche unless the wheel turns full cicle in which case they are the new revolutionaries rather than the old guard.
After we Brexit life will move on. We'll go back to arguing over schools and hospitals and all other stuff like that. Some future next big thing will divide the country and half will line up on each side and we'll forget about Brexit as we forgot about secondary picketing.
If you actually think Brexit will be over after a ‘no deal’ on 31st October then I have a lovely bridge to sell you.
I never said that. I said two parts get it over the line [31st October] and "see it become normal" that requires the passage of time and acceptance.
Brexit is most vulnerable before it happens, when it can be aborted. After it has happened it is most vulnerable immediately after - a General Election during a transition for instance could easily be won by a party seeking to rejoin or a rejoin referendum.
The further we go past Brexit day the more normalised it becomes. Come the 2030s we'll have voters who don't really remember being in the EU, come the 2040s the idea of having once been in the EU will be a story old folks might talk about like Woodstock. Come the 2060s it will be like banging on about WWII when I was a child - an age for history books you really can't relate to at all.
You do realise that Brexit has happened due to the nostalgia of people bleating on about the war, 70 years after the fact?
No I think that's a myth. I more often here the war mentioned in a Brexit context by people like you and Meeks.
But either way we aren't refighting the war, we are doing something different. People may blame or not Brexit but actually reversing it is another matter.
Bozo failing to do interviews, and not putting up ministers to defend his suspension of democracy shows the contempt that he has for the voting public.
Democracy and mass peaceful protests haven't worked.
Parliament can still stop him. Your tilting toward violent protest is beginnging to look downright eager and is quite worrying.
When people are denied democratic expression, they shift to other means. I would expect the same with Revoke.
Me too, and it's why even Revoke can't be sold as anything other than one of a number of bad options from here.
Bozo failing to do interviews, and not putting up ministers to defend his suspension of democracy shows the contempt that he has for the voting public.
Democracy and mass peaceful protests haven't worked.
Parliament can still stop him. Your tilting toward violent protest is beginnging to look downright eager and is quite worrying.
When people are denied democratic expression, they shift to other means. I would expect the same with Revoke.
Non-violent civil disobedience is well justified in these circumstances.
Except I said violent protest, and he did not dispute that so one presumes by 'other means' he includes that. Two days running that has been implied, which seemed out of character but apparently not.
For what it is worth I do think Boris will win the next election. I do however think he will fail to unite the country and that his and his party’s legacy will be toxic beyond belief.
I don't think its possible to unite the country. I think its possible to win and vanquish your opponents and I'll settle for that.
How do you vanquish half the country?
You don't.
You vanquish your active political opponents, get your policy over the line and see it become normal. The half of the country that opposed you on that moves on to the future battles and debates and before long what won is now accepted wisdom. Eventually those who still wish to refight the lost battle are seen as pastiche unless the wheel turns full cicle in which case they are the new revolutionaries rather than the old guard.
After we Brexit life will move on. We'll go back to arguing over schools and hospitals and all other stuff like that. Some future next big thing will divide the country and half will line up on each side and we'll forget about Brexit as we forgot about secondary picketing.
If you actually think Brexit will be over after a ‘no deal’ on 31st October then I have a lovely bridge to sell you.
I never said that. I said two parts get it over the line [31st October] and "see it become normal" that requires the passage of time and acceptance.
Brexit is most vulnerable before it happens, when it can be aborted. After it has happened it is most vulnerable immediately after - a General Election during a transition for instance could easily be won by a party seeking to rejoin or a rejoin referendum.
The further we go past Brexit day the more normalised it becomes. Come the 2030s we'll have voters who don't really remember being in the EU, come the 2040s the idea of having once been in the EU will be a story old folks might talk about like Woodstock. Come the 2060s it will be like banging on about WWII when I was a child - an age for history books you really can't relate to at all.
You do realise that Brexit has happened due to the nostalgia of people bleating on about the war, 70 years after the fact?
No I think that's a myth. I more often here the war mentioned in a Brexit context by people like you and Meeks.
But either way we aren't refighting the war, we are doing something different. People may blame or not Brexit but actually reversing it is another matter.
Everything you write is like bizarre fan fiction with no basis in reality.
For what it is worth I do think Boris will win the next election. I do however think he will fail to unite the country and that his and his party’s legacy will be toxic beyond belief.
I don't think its possible to unite the country. I think its possible to win and vanquish your opponents and I'll settle for that.
How do you vanquish half the country?
You don't.
You vanquish your active political opponents, get your policy over the line and see it become normal. The half of the country that opposed you on that moves on to the future battleswill divide the country and half will line up on each side and we'll forget about Brexit as we forgot about secondary picketing.
If you actually think Brexit will be over after a ‘no deal’ on 31st October then I have a lovely bridge to sell you.
I never said that. I said two parts get it over the line [31st October] and "see it become normal" that requires the passage of time and acceptance.
Brexit is most vulnerable before it happens, when it can be aborted. After it has happened it is most vulnerable immediately after - a General Election during a transition for instance could easily be won by a party seeking to rejoin or a rejoin referendum.
The further we go past Brexit day the more normalised it becomes. Come the 2030s we'll have voters who don't really remember being in the EU, come the 2040s the idea of having once been in the EU will be a story old folks might talk about like Woodstock. Come the 2060s it will be like banging on about WWII when I was a child - an age for history books you really can't relate to at all.
You do realise that Brexit has happened due to the nostalgia of people bleating on about the war, 70 years after the fact?
No I think that's a myth. I more often here the war mentioned in a Brexit context by people like you and Meeks.
But either way we aren't refighting the war, we are doing something different. People may blame or not Brexit but actually reversing it is another matter.
The war has become the ur-myth of Britain. It’s always with us. Indeed it’s hard to go through life without mentioning it, in the same way the Greeks tended to bang on a lot about Zeus’s sex life.
it will be like banging on about WWII when I was a child...
...the basis for the political beliefs of millions of baby boomers?
Precisely!
For baby boomers WWII is much more real. Its something they, while not experiencing, perceived through the actions of their parents generation - and the films and media they grew up with were dominated by it.
As a child of the 80s, let alone younger generations, it is weird and odd. We don't go around saying "Don't mention the war" while doing nothing but . . . we actually don't really mention it and when we do it is a Godwin, something to be avoided because to do so makes you look silly and weird.
That is what time has done. The same with how Brexit will be normalised. Time and inertia drives us away from old battles.
it will be like banging on about WWII when I was a child...
...the basis for the political beliefs of millions of baby boomers?
Precisely!
For baby boomers WWII is much more real. Its something they, while not experiencing, perceived through the actions of their parents generation - and the films and media they grew up with were dominated by it.
As a child of the 80s, let alone younger generations, it is weird and odd. We don't go around saying "Don't mention the war" while doing nothing but, it is a Godwin, something to be avoided because to do so makes you look silly and weird.
That is what time has done. The same with how Brexit will be normalised. Time and inertia drives us away from old battles.
Nonsense. Children of the 80s did not vote for Brexit. The boomers did. The Millennial positive memory of the EU will remain and define our generation.
You do realise that Brexit has happened due to the nostalgia of people bleating on about the war, 70 years after the fact?
No I think that's a myth. I more often here the war mentioned in a Brexit context by people like you and Meeks.
But either way we aren't refighting the war, we are doing something different. People may blame or not Brexit but actually reversing it is another matter.
The war has become the ur-myth of Britain. It’s always with us. Indeed it’s hard to go through life without mentioning it, in the same way the Greeks tended to bang on a lot about Zeus’s sex life.
Yes its become myth, that's part of the passage of fading away from reality.
“The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again.”
For what it is worth I do think Boris will win the next election. I do however think he will fail to unite the country and that his and his party’s legacy will be toxic beyond belief.
I agree. The next election will be 1992 x 10.
So what. 1992 was a historic triumph and a 4th Tory term that saw off a possible socialist government and enabled the more centrist New Labour.
If Boris wins another historic 4th Tory term and beats Corbyn and delivers Brexit I could live with over a decade in opposition after that triumph
Me too. Although several decades would be fitting.
it will be like banging on about WWII when I was a child...
...the basis for the political beliefs of millions of baby boomers?
Precisely!
For baby boomers WWII is much more real. Its something they, while not experiencing, perceived through the actions of their parents generation - and the films and media they grew up with were dominated by it.
As a child of the 80s, let alone younger generations, it is weird and odd. We don't go around saying "Don't mention the war" while doing nothing but, it is a Godwin, something to be avoided because to do so makes you look silly and weird.
That is what time has done. The same with how Brexit will be normalised. Time and inertia drives us away from old battles.
Nonsense. Children of the 80s did not vote for Brexit. The boomers did. The Millennial positive memory of the EU will remain and define our generation.
Your views are not typical.
Brexit is exclusively the preserve of the elderly, the jobless, the insane, and the lobotomised.
Young Brexiters (ie anyone under 50) are an offence unto God.
Bozo failing to do interviews, and not putting up ministers to defend his suspension of democracy shows the contempt that he has for the voting public.
Democracy and mass peaceful protests haven't worked.
Parliament can still stop him. Your tilting toward violent protest is beginnging to look downright eager and is quite worrying.
When people are denied democratic expression, they shift to other means. I would expect the same with Revoke.
You don't seem to be expecting it, you seem to be welcoming it, willing it.
No, I am merely expecting it. Not all are as pacific as myself. A bit of civil obedience is my limit, but when democratic expressions are guillotined, people react, like the Gilet Jaunes that the right wing populists were cheering on here so recently.
Comments
Nite all.
Constitutionally the Queen is free to decide whether or not to go along with the government’s plans or support the sovereign parliament. The convention though is the Queen does what she’s told by the PM, and her smartest move is to stick to that as she is doing.
But in normal times the PM has full support of a majority in the Commons. So Its difficult spot for the queen, But whose fault is it that it’s getting more difficult for her Johnsons or Corbyn’s? I would lay the blame at door of Corbyn, yet more evidence the man and those around him are mendacious. That letter would have been better jointly signed by all opposition leaders in parliament, if it was a good idea. The fact Corbyn and Swinson can’t and won’t do such stuff jointly is measure of Boris power and their weakness.
But even then such letter spotlights the impotence of the Queen and the role of the monarch’s powers. So only an anti monarchist could think that letter dragging the queen into this a good idea. The Tory press are justified tearing Corbyn to shreds over this, and his party inciting rioting and violence following a nod from their leader.
It’s actually been a pretty abysmal 48hrs from the opposition and how they have handled Cummings cunning trap and control of the news agenda. Backstop and negotiation should be the main story in town.
HYUFD at times excels in making more and more banal comments
SNP HOLD East Kilbride Central North (South Lanarkshire) with 46% (+4) of first preference votes.
LAB were 2nd on 20% (-11), CON 3rd on 15% (-4), LDM 4th on 12% (+10), GRN 5th on 4% (+1), UKIP 6th on 1% (+1) & LBT 7th on 0.4% (+0.4)
Corbyn was in Scotland today, winning hearts and minds...
Unity in unhealthy. A hive mind is nothing to be proud of.
Competition keeps you sharp and focused. Its why our governance would probably be better if there was an actual opposition worthy of its name.
Unity would result in malaise. I hope we never have to suffer through that.
Is all this really necessary? I know a lot of them don't want Corbyn, and mistrust his longer term motives, but they can be sure he will extend so just go for the simpler option already.
Don't worry youngsters will grow up as all generations do as they mature and Brexit will cease to be shocking and instead become our new normal. My children will grow up and think of the EU as their neighbours and not something that we were a part of when they were born.
https://unherd.com/2019/08/the-brexit-endgame-begins/
Alternatively he’s been sniffing Rees Mogg’s pomade, and lost it completely, like HYUFD.
Doesn’t really square with Philip’s much repeated concern for democracy, but there you go.
You vanquish your active political opponents, get your policy over the line and see it become normal. The half of the country that opposed you on that moves on to the future battles and debates and before long what won is now accepted wisdom. Eventually those who still wish to refight the lost battle are seen as pastiche unless the wheel turns full cicle in which case they are the new revolutionaries rather than the old guard.
After we Brexit life will move on. We'll go back to arguing over schools and hospitals and all other stuff like that. Some future next big thing will divide the country and half will line up on each side and we'll forget about Brexit as we forgot about secondary picketing.
RADF: 41.7% (+41.7)
LAB: 35.8% (-24.7)
CON: 14.3% (-10.7)
LDEM: 5.7% (+2.7)
UKIP: 2.5% (+2.5)
Radcliffe First GAIN from Labour.
Just got to start off saying something like, when I was a kid I had an imaginary friend, biffy bongo. Build the narrative around biffy bongo’s brutal murder and how that ties in with what Johnson’s doing to democracy right now. Finish up singing the smelly Mogg song “Smelly Mogg, smel-ly Mogg, what are they feeding you? Smelly Mogg, smel-ly Mogg, it's all your effing fault.” and a salute to remain.
Life always depends upon what happens next, while whether the UK itself disintegrates is surprisingly moot.
The best hope of rejoiners ironically is that not much happens next, because if stuff does happen next that will take the attention and focus away from Brexit. Those who wish to keep harping back to Brexit will seem rather absurd when the rest of us are moving on, like those still banging on about Iraq during the Financial Crisis.
I thought last time Labour would do better than expected (though I still very much underestimated how well they ended up doing) for that reason, and while Corbyn has more negatives against him now, Boris and his actions mean the Tories have even more as well, so even more reason to tactically vote against him. Which means it all comes down to whether BXP stand in lots of places as they promise and whether Boris's gamble that he has won them over sufficiently is correct.
*I am not qualified to judge, and if I were it would be unethical to do so. But look it up.
Brexit is most vulnerable before it happens, when it can be aborted. After it has happened it is most vulnerable immediately after - a General Election during a transition for instance could easily be won by a party seeking to rejoin or a rejoin referendum.
The further we go past Brexit day the more normalised it becomes. Come the 2030s we'll have voters who don't really remember being in the EU, come the 2040s the idea of having once been in the EU will be a story old folks might talk about like Woodstock. Come the 2060s it will be like banging on about WWII when I was a child - an age for history books you really can't relate to at all.
If Boris wins another historic 4th Tory term and beats Corbyn and delivers Brexit I could live with over a decade in opposition after that triumph
Just as when I first voted in the noughties people of my generation frequently blamed Thatcherism for ills [real or perceived] but Thatcher's reforms largely were not reversed. Inertia is a powerful force.
But either way we aren't refighting the war, we are doing something different. People may blame or not Brexit but actually reversing it is another matter.
Good night all
It’s always with us.
Indeed it’s hard to go through life without mentioning it, in the same way the Greeks tended to bang on a lot about Zeus’s sex life.
Any evidence for the europhilic rating of various royal types?
Or just a hunch?
For baby boomers WWII is much more real. Its something they, while not experiencing, perceived through the actions of their parents generation - and the films and media they grew up with were dominated by it.
As a child of the 80s, let alone younger generations, it is weird and odd. We don't go around saying "Don't mention the war" while doing nothing but . . . we actually don't really mention it and when we do it is a Godwin, something to be avoided because to do so makes you look silly and weird.
That is what time has done. The same with how Brexit will be normalised. Time and inertia drives us away from old battles.
Your views are not typical.
“The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again.”
― Robert Jordan
Young Brexiters (ie anyone under 50) are an offence unto God.