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  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Foxy said:

    But festival-goers often find themselves too tired and emotional after a weekend partying to take the time and effort to pack up their belongings - and their tent.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-49494957

    Too emotional....to pack a tent up?

    These f*ckers will be bleating about carbon budgets and climate change next week. Doesn't apply to them if they are 'immersing themselves in their cultural birthright'

    But festival-goers often find themselves too tired and emotional after a weekend partying to take the time and effort to pack up their belongings - and their tent.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-49494957

    Too emotional....to pack a tent up?

    These f*ckers will be bleating about carbon budgets and climate change next week. Doesn't apply to them if they are 'immersing themselves in their cultural birthright'
    Leeds and Reading get a more working class crowd than more liberal festivals like Latitude. Hate the mess myself, but these are not an environmentally conscious crowds.
    Well I'll apply the sentiment to festivals generally. Leeds Reading isn't the only one with shit left everywhere by idiots.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited August 2019
    What a catastrophic shitshow today.

    HYUFD, PT and some others here on the far right may try to justify this, but eventually they will see through the magician's sleight of hand.

    These are politically the worst days of my life. Even if you are a Brexiteer you cannot, in your heart of hearts, believe this is a way to carry on. It began with Theresa May of course, who vented her frustration rather too many times on MPs who were, in turn, only trying to make up for the crass simplicity of the ill-conceived binary vote that Cameron presented in the first place.

    And now we have this chancer in charge.

    Wake me up in 20 years.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Charles said:

    1. Because while a Deal vs No Deal referendum would be legitimate, Parliament would amend it to be Deal vs Remain. In so doing they would set aside the votes of 17.4 million people and teach them all that voting has no purpose if they disagree with their “betters”

    2. Inertia is the most powerful force in politics. Once it is done it is done and it will go back to being a minority interest

    3. Get a grip. It’s 4 f*****g days. After Bercow and others have abused parliamentary procedure

    This four days rubbish has to stop. It's simply untrue.
    The ways in which it is untrue.

    1. The Commons may have voted against the Conference recess - certainly many members had already requested that Parliament be recalled from the summer recess, and clearly want more time to debate Brexit.
    2. The Queen's Speech debate conventionally takes up six days of Parliamentary time, that will now not be available for Brexit debates/legislation.

    Anyone repeating the four day talking point is being dishonest.
    And in addition to that, if the purpose was not to prevent Parliament from acting then the prorogation would only be for a day or two, as normal, rather than for five weeks.
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268


    It was nice compared with some of the vile vulgar stuff you come out with it.

    Vulgar?

    You're the one throwing mental health issues as insults.

    Actually that was me. You are deranged.
    Garner repeated it.

    Getting abuse from Tyndalls is the lot of my family.
    Only because you deserve it for being a fucking lunatic.
    Do we really need to descend to this? It is possible to diaagree with people without being so nasty.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s amazing that there now seems something of the jackboot about Boris - sweeping away ancient constitutional safeguards with a snigger and a sneer. That carefully crafted jovial-chap-of-the-people persona is in tatters. Cummings couldn’t have thought this through.

    Did you say the same sbout Major in 1997? Do you thijk the same sbout Atlee in 1948? Both did the same thing for similarly self serving reasons. Not sure anyone said there was something of the jackboot about them

    Boris is stupid and wrong on this but the hyperbole coming from his opponents is farcical.
    Yup, diehard Remainers wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal and ignoring the Leave vote in the EU referendum, Boris and Cummings are now prepared to fight it to deliver Brexit come hell or high water on 31st October
    Yes, against the will of the people.

    The public do not want no deal and they want Parliament sitting. The polls are clear.

    Just because some angry racist Essex people shouted at you doesn’t change that.
    The people want Brexit, they voted for it, you wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement, a war you have now got.
    As you are incapable of independent thought, let me spell it out for you again.

    There is no majority for no deal. There is no majority for suspending parliament. The polls are clear.

    This move is against the people, not for them.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,052

    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    In relation to point 3, if a future Corbyn government had a manifesto commitment it was elected on and the Commons blocked it I would have no problem with Corbyn proroguing Parliament to ensure the commitment was implemented even if I disagreed with the policy, just as I believe Boris has the right to prorogue Parliament as a last resort to ensure the winning vote to Leave the EU is implemented.

    Democracy must come first and the electorate's verdict implemented even if you disagreed with it, you can try and change course again at a future election or referendum

    The current Government was elected to leave the EU with a deal.

    Boris is proroguing Parliament so that we leave without a deal.
    We do not know if Boris is proroguing to leave without a deal. There is an argument that says that a new deal is more likely if parliament does not pass legislation to take no deal of the table. It has been reported in quality newspapers that the EU will not move whilst no deal can be taken off the table.
    Back from a tense penalty shootout...Leicester never in doubt...

    Proroguing means No Deal. There simply is not the legislative time for anything else.
    If Boris gets a new deal with the EU, gets it approved by Parliament then the EU will grant an extension to get the legislation through.
    That extension gives time for a VONC.

    Proroguing means No Deal, there is no time now.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    viewcode said:

    glw said:

    The one good thing about today is that it should focus the minds of those who wish to stop no deal Brexit. They are going to get one shot at it, and they need to get all their ducks in a row. We will know shortly whether stopping the UK crashing out is possible. If not, everybody has about seven weeks to get ready as it is almost certain to happen now.

    No Deal can be stopped on October 31st by VONCing and installing a PM to revoke Article 50. They don’t just have one shot at it.
    I'm sorry, but I don't think that's realistic. You can't do these things at the last minute.
    Good way to provoke armed gammon on the streets
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Convinced republicans and people who counter intuitively wanted the monarch to have more power, what a combination
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263
    HYUFD said:

    In relation to point 3, if a future Corbyn government had a manifesto commitment it was elected on and the Commons blocked it I would have no problem with Corbyn proroguing Parliament to ensure the commitment was implemented even if I disagreed with the policy, just as I believe Boris has the right to prorogue Parliament as a last resort to ensure the winning vote to Leave the EU is implemented.

    Democracy must come first and the electorate's verdict implemented even if you disagreed with it, you can try and change course again at a future election or referendum

    Hmm, I'm not sure I agree with you. We do not have a system of absolute Presidential power, and I don't think we should. Corbyn, if PM, will need to put up with the fact that there will be a majority of MPs not willing to go beyond a certain point of left-wing policy. I don't actually think that he would seek to avoid that, any more than he has sought sweeping deselection of the MPs who tried to unseat him. There is a basic decency in how he deals with critics - which is not something I'd say of every left-winger.

    The difference IMO is that the Labour left will have something to prove to gain reelection - that we can govern responsibly. The Conservative right seems to feel under no such obligation, and it is that difference which gives Corbyn an opportunity. Not than the chance to be undemocratic as well, but the chance to make the Conservative Party appear the natural party of wild-eyed opposition.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited August 2019
    FF43 said:

    The headlines in the Scottish newspapers are an SNP dream.

    The Record was always a reliably unionist paper.
    The Record is a leftwing pro Labour Remainer paper that even endorsed SNP candidates over Tories in the 2017 general election
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    Scott_P said:
    Takes the gloves off? Runs away is more like it.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,542


    It was nice compared with some of the vile vulgar stuff you come out with it.

    Vulgar?

    You're the one throwing mental health issues as insults.

    Actually that was me. You are deranged.
    Garner repeated it.

    Getting abuse from Tyndalls is the lot of my family.
    Only because you deserve it for being a fucking lunatic.
    I hate to say this, but comments like this make people sound completely deranged, even if they are not.
  • HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    The headlines in the Scottish newspapers are an SNP dream.

    The Record was always a reliably unionist paper.
    The Record is a leftwing pro Labour Remainer paper that even endorsed SNP candidates over Tories in the 2017 general election
    HYUFD is a former diehard REMAINER who thought it was wrong to vote LEAVE in 2016.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    glw said:

    The one good thing about today is that it should focus the minds of those who wish to stop no deal Brexit. They are going to get one shot at it, and they need to get all their ducks in a row. We will know shortly whether stopping the UK crashing out is possible. If not, everybody has about seven weeks to get ready as it is almost certain to happen now.

    No Deal can be stopped on October 31st by VONCing and installing a PM to revoke Article 50. They don’t just have one shot at it.
    The main problem with this is that the only viable alternative PM is Corbyn - and getting him into office is contingent on the notion that, if we take it as a given that the DUP won't switch sides, every single other MP on the Opposition benches plus at least two sitting Tory MPs would have to be willing to vote him in.

    We may be about to find out the lengths to which various Remainers are willing to go in order to stop No Deal. My guess is that the numbers probably don't exist to install Corbyn, so we're therefore going to leave according to Boris Johnson's commitment on October 31st.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    HYUFD said:

    The headlines in the Scottish newspapers are an SNP dream.

    Rubbish, even Wings over Scotland today attacked the SNP for blocking the Brexit UK voters voted for, saying how would they feel if Unionists blocked a 52% to 48% Leave the UK vote?
    Leave Leaver Fantasy Island and look at the front pages of the Scottish newspapers.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    eek said:

    Charles said:

    1. Because while a Deal vs No Deal referendum would be legitimate, Parliament would amend it to be Deal vs Remain. In so doing they would set aside the votes of 17.4 million people and teach them all that voting has no purpose if they disagree with their “betters”

    2. Inertia is the most powerful force in politics. Once it is done it is done and it will go back to being a minority interest

    3. Get a grip. It’s 4 f*****g days. After Bercow and others have abused parliamentary procedure

    3 - It's not 4 days. It's 4 days + 4 days for the Queen's Speech which cannot be overridden.

    At a minimum it's 8 days and that depends on when the proroguing begins. It's possible that it begins on September 9th which removes another 3 days of debates.

    Between those items it reduces Parliament from 25 days of sitting where things were editable down to 14.
    It’s reasonable that a new PM gets to submit a new Queen’s Speech

    FWIW I don’t think this a sensible thing for Boris to do. It is constitutional and it is legitimate, but it’s a red rag to a bull. That being said the squeals of outrage are confected
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,835

    Chris_A said:



    It also beggars belief that they don't know how to spell homoeopathy either.

    Its spelled...H..O...R...S...E....S...H...I..T. right?
    Easy with the capitals. It's more effective the smaller it is.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    edited August 2019

    HYUFD said:

    The headlines in the Scottish newspapers are an SNP dream.

    Rubbish, even Wings over Scotland today attacked the SNP for blocking the Brexit UK voters voted for, saying how would they feel if Unionists blocked a 52% to 48% Leave the UK vote?
    Leave Leaver Fantasy Island and look at the front pages of the Scottish newspapers.
    What the pro Labour, pro SNP over Tory Daily Record, don't be absurd.

    In fact not one poll has the SNP even reaching the voteshare they got in 2015 BEFORE the EU referendum had even happened
  • What a catastrophic shitshow today.

    HYUFD, PT and some others here on the far right may try to justify this, but eventually they will see through the magician's sleight of hand.

    These are politically the worst days of my life. Even if you are a Brexiteer you cannot, in your heart of hearts, believe this is a way to carry on. It began with Theresa May of course, who vented her frustration rather too many times on MPs who were, in turn, only trying to make up for the crass simplicity of the ill-conceived binary vote that Cameron presented in the first place.

    And now we have this chancer in charge.

    Wake me up in 20 years.

    I doubt I will be on the planet then !!!!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,263


    It was nice compared with some of the vile vulgar stuff you come out with it.

    Vulgar?

    You're the one throwing mental health issues as insults.

    Actually that was me. You are deranged.
    Garner repeated it.

    Getting abuse from Tyndalls is the lot of my family.
    Only because you deserve it for being a fucking lunatic.
    You are totally ridiculous.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,955

    What a catastrophic shitshow today.

    HYUFD, PT and some others here on the far right may try to justify this, but eventually they will see through the magician's sleight of hand.

    These are politically the worst days of my life. Even if you are a Brexiteer you cannot, in your heart of hearts, believe this is a way to carry on. It began with Theresa May of course, who vented her frustration rather too many times on MPs who were, in turn, only trying to make up for the crass simplicity of the ill-conceived binary vote that Cameron presented in the first place.

    And now we have this chancer in charge.

    Wake me up in 20 years.

    For the PM Boris Twentieth Anniversary Street Party? You really want that....?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557
    Foxy said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    In relation to point 3, if a future Corbyn government had a manifesto commitment it was elected on and the Commons blocked it I would have no problem with Corbyn proroguing Parliament to ensure the commitment was implemented even if I disagreed with the policy, just as I believe Boris has the right to prorogue Parliament as a last resort to ensure the winning vote to Leave the EU is implemented.

    Democracy must come first and the electorate's verdict implemented even if you disagreed with it, you can try and change course again at a future election or referendum

    The current Government was elected to leave the EU with a deal.

    Boris is proroguing Parliament so that we leave without a deal.
    We do not know if Boris is proroguing to leave without a deal. There is an argument that says that a new deal is more likely if parliament does not pass legislation to take no deal of the table. It has been reported in quality newspapers that the EU will not move whilst no deal can be taken off the table.
    Back from a tense penalty shootout...Leicester never in doubt...

    Proroguing means No Deal. There simply is not the legislative time for anything else.
    There isn’t even the legislative time for bills required by No Deal.

    To call it irresponsible would be generous.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The headlines in the Scottish newspapers are an SNP dream.

    Rubbish, even Wings over Scotland today attacked the SNP for blocking the Brexit UK voters voted for, saying how would they feel if Unionists blocked a 52% to 48% Leave the UK vote?
    Leave Leaver Fantasy Island and look at the front pages of the Scottish newspapers.
    What the pro Labour, pro SNP over Tory Daily Record, don't be absurd.

    In fact not one poll has the SNP even reaching the voteshare they got in 2015 BEFORE the EU referendum had even happened
    You’re talking about polls again.

    No majority for no deal.

    No majority for ignoring Parliament.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    1. Because while a Deal vs No Deal referendum would be legitimate, Parliament would amend it to be Deal vs Remain. In so doing they would set aside the votes of 17.4 million people and teach them all that voting has no purpose if they disagree with their “betters”

    2. Inertia is the most powerful force in politics. Once it is done it is done and it will go back to being a minority interest

    3. Get a grip. It’s 4 f*****g days. After Bercow and others have abused parliamentary procedure

    This four days rubbish has to stop. It's simply untrue.
    You’re right. Radio 4 just said it is 3 days. I apologise.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    1,672 tweets, to 17 million Leave voters, not much of a contest!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,743

    Dreadful error by Buckingham Palace staff. Her Majesty has received extremely poor advice.

    The monarch and the monarchy have been popular, but just wait until the No Deal shit hits the fan: she, and her reputation, are going to get absolutely covered in the stinking smatter.

    +1 I agree. Terrible move by HMQ. She will inevitably become a focal point for discontent. A bit like when Diana died. A strange co-incidence it being almost 22 years to the day since events so grippingly moved against the Queen.
    She acted in the proper way constitutionally. Do we want a monarch who overrules the advice of her government? Think about it carefully.
    Corrected it for you :)
    https://twitter.com/MJowen174/status/1166806874915823678?s=20
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    Dreadful error by Buckingham Palace staff. Her Majesty has received extremely poor advice.

    The monarch and the monarchy have been popular, but just wait until the No Deal shit hits the fan: she, and her reputation, are going to get absolutely covered in the stinking smatter.

    +1 I agree. Terrible move by HMQ. She will inevitably become a focal point for discontent. A bit like when Diana died. A strange co-incidence it being almost 22 years to the day since events so grippingly moved against the Queen.
    She acted in the proper way constitutionally. Do we want a monarch who overrules the advice of her government? Think about it carefully.
    It will be used to break up the UK, HMQ, has unwittingly lit the blue touch paper. The PM should call an election not faff about with procedure and drag the monarchy into this. HMQ could have said NO and fired him as he obviously does not command a majority in the house if he has to undertake such dubious tactics. This creates a precedent for implementing things that goes against parliamentary support. It allows an executive action without the checks and balances of Parliament. It is an outrage...
    1. He can't call an election without Labour support.
    2. The precedent was already set at least 70 years ago by Atlee.
    Corbyn has called for a GE in the last week.

    Proroguing Parliament in this way is not the way political issues should be dealt with. Previous Governments were out of order undertaking such a process and doing it now without a scheduled GE is a perversion of politics that shows the personal and political degradation of the current PM.
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    Charles said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    1. Because while a Deal vs No Deal referendum would be legitimate, Parliament would amend it to be Deal vs Remain. In so doing they would set aside the votes of 17.4 million people and teach them all that voting has no purpose if they disagree with their “betters”

    2. Inertia is the most powerful force in politics. Once it is done it is done and it will go back to being a minority interest

    3. Get a grip. It’s 4 f*****g days. After Bercow and others have abused parliamentary procedure

    3 - It's not 4 days. It's 4 days + 4 days for the Queen's Speech which cannot be overridden.

    At a minimum it's 8 days and that depends on when the proroguing begins. It's possible that it begins on September 9th which removes another 3 days of debates.

    Between those items it reduces Parliament from 25 days of sitting where things were editable down to 14.
    It’s reasonable that a new PM gets to submit a new Queen’s Speech

    FWIW I don’t think this a sensible thing for Boris to do. It is constitutional and it is legitimate, but it’s a red rag to a bull. That being said the squeals of outrage are confected
    Indeed it is constitutional and legitimate. Given that it's ironic that the squeals of outrage are coming from many who rejoiced when Bercow and Grieve et al conspired to rip up convention on the high alter of Remain.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s amazing that there now seems something of the jackboot about Boris - sweeping away ancient constitutional safeguards with a snigger and a sneer. That carefully crafted jovial-chap-of-the-people persona is in tatters. Cummings couldn’t have thought this through.

    Did you say the same sbout Major in 1997? Do you thijk the same sbout Atlee in 1948? Both did the same thing for similarly self serving reasons. Not sure anyone said there was something of the jackboot about them

    Boris is stupid and wrong on this but the hyperbole coming from his opponents is farcical.
    Yup, diehard Remainers wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal and ignoring the Leave vote in the EU referendum, Boris and Cummings are now prepared to fight it to deliver Brexit come hell or high water on 31st October
    Yes, against the will of the people.

    The public do not want no deal and they want Parliament sitting. The polls are clear.

    Just because some angry racist Essex people shouted at you doesn’t change that.
    The people want Brexit, they voted for it, you wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement, a war you have now got.
    As you are incapable of independent thought, let me spell it out for you again.

    There is no majority for no deal. There is no majority for suspending parliament. The polls are clear.

    This move is against the people, not for them.
    No, we are now at war with diehard Remainers who have refused to respect the will of the people to Leave the EU by both voting against a Deal and against No Deal.

    In fact as Opinium has showed this month 46% back going ahead with Brexit even with No Deal, 29% back cancelling Brexit and remaining in the EU and just 12% back delaying Brexit again until a Deal can pass the Commons

    https://www.opinium.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Opinium-Political-Report-8th-August-2019.pdf
  • StreeterStreeter Posts: 684

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    The headlines in the Scottish newspapers are an SNP dream.

    The Record was always a reliably unionist paper.
    The Record is a leftwing pro Labour Remainer paper that even endorsed SNP candidates over Tories in the 2017 general election
    HYUFD is a former diehard REMAINER who thought it was wrong to vote LEAVE in 2016.
    You've got NOTHING to crow about. BE LEAVE you said. You're one of those RESPONSIBLE for today's execrable events.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    What a catastrophic shitshow today.

    HYUFD, PT and some others here on the far right may try to justify this, but eventually they will see through the magician's sleight of hand.

    These are politically the worst days of my life. Even if you are a Brexiteer you cannot, in your heart of hearts, believe this is a way to carry on. It began with Theresa May of course, who vented her frustration rather too many times on MPs who were, in turn, only trying to make up for the crass simplicity of the ill-conceived binary vote that...

    ...almost the entire Commons (except the SNP) passed into law in 2015.

    MPs are responsible for creating this situation. I've no sympathy at all for the angst that it is causing them.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    1. Because while a Deal vs No Deal referendum would be legitimate, Parliament would amend it to be Deal vs Remain. In so doing they would set aside the votes of 17.4 million people and teach them all that voting has no purpose if they disagree with their “betters”

    2. Inertia is the most powerful force in politics. Once it is done it is done and it will go back to being a minority interest

    3. Get a grip. It’s 4 f*****g days. After Bercow and others have abused parliamentary procedure

    This four days rubbish has to stop. It's simply untrue.
    You’re right. Radio 4 just said it is 3 days. I apologise.
    You are as disingenuous as the PM.
    The prorogation is for over a month.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s amazing that there now seems something of the jackboot about Boris - sweeping away ancient constitutional safeguards with a snigger and a sneer. That carefully crafted jovial-chap-of-the-people persona is in tatters. Cummings couldn’t have thought this through.

    Did you say the same sbout Major in 1997? Do you thijk the same sbout Atlee in 1948? Both did the same thing for similarly self serving reasons. Not sure anyone said there was something of the jackboot about them

    Boris is stupid and wrong on this but the hyperbole coming from his opponents is farcical.
    Yup, diehard Remainers wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal and ignoring the Leave vote in the EU referendum, Boris and Cummings are now prepared to fight it to deliver Brexit come hell or high water on 31st October
    Yes, against the will of the people.

    The public do not want no deal and they want Parliament sitting. The polls are clear.

    Just because some angry racist Essex people shouted at you doesn’t change that.
    The people want Brexit, they voted for it, you wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement, a war you have now got.
    As you are incapable of independent thought, let me spell it out for you again.

    There is no majority for no deal. There is no majority for suspending parliament. The polls are clear.

    This move is against the people, not for them.
    No, we are now at war with diehard Remainers who have refused to respect the will of the people to Leave the EU by both voting against a Deal and against No Deal.

    In fact as Opinium has showed this month 46% back going ahead with Brexit even with No Deal, 29% back cancelling Brexit and remaining in the EU and just 12% back delaying Brexit again until a Deal can pass the Commons

    https://www.opinium.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Opinium-Political-Report-8th-August-2019.pdf
    So you are just ignoring todays YouGov poll because it does not suit your agenda?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    Remainers taking today's developments in their stride then? :D
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,263
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s amazing that there now seems something of the jackboot about Boris - sweeping away ancient constitutional safeguards with a snigger and a sneer. That carefully crafted jovial-chap-of-the-people persona is in tatters. Cummings couldn’t have thought this through.

    Did you say the same sbout Major in 1997? Do you thijk the same sbout Atlee in 1948? Both did the same thing for similarly self serving reasons. Not sure anyone said there was something of the jackboot about them

    Boris is stupid and wrong on this but the hyperbole coming from his opponents is farcical.
    Yup, diehard Remainers wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal and ignoring the Leave vote in the EU referendum, Boris and Cummings are now prepared to fight it to deliver Brexit come hell or high water on 31st October
    Yes, against the will of the people.

    The public do not want no deal and they want Parliament sitting. The polls are clear.

    Just because some angry racist Essex people shouted at you doesn’t change that.
    The people want Brexit, they voted for it, you wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement, a war you have now got.
    As you are incapable of independent thought, let me spell it out for you again.

    There is no majority for no deal. There is no majority for suspending parliament. The polls are clear.

    This move is against the people, not for them.
    No, we are now at war with diehard Remainers who have refused to respect the will of the people to Leave the EU by both voting against a Deal and against No Deal.

    In fact as Opinium has showed this month 46% back going ahead with Brexit even with No Deal, 29% back cancelling Brexit and remaining in the EU and just 12% back delaying Brexit again until a Deal can pass the Commons

    https://www.opinium.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Opinium-Political-Report-8th-August-2019.pdf
    Well then let's have a referendum with No Deal on the ballot paper if you're so confident.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Charles said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    1. Because while a Deal vs No Deal referendum would be legitimate, Parliament would amend it to be Deal vs Remain. In so doing they would set aside the votes of 17.4 million people and teach them all that voting has no purpose if they disagree with their “betters”

    2. Inertia is the most powerful force in politics. Once it is done it is done and it will go back to being a minority interest

    3. Get a grip. It’s 4 f*****g days. After Bercow and others have abused parliamentary procedure

    3 - It's not 4 days. It's 4 days + 4 days for the Queen's Speech which cannot be overridden.

    At a minimum it's 8 days and that depends on when the proroguing begins. It's possible that it begins on September 9th which removes another 3 days of debates.

    Between those items it reduces Parliament from 25 days of sitting where things were editable down to 14.
    It’s reasonable that a new PM gets to submit a new Queen’s Speech

    FWIW I don’t think this a sensible thing for Boris to do. It is constitutional and it is legitimate, but it’s a red rag to a bull. That being said the squeals of outrage are confected
    That may be quite reasonable. It could well be legal, even effective, and still be, as I believe, a really really bad idea.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    1. Because while a Deal vs No Deal referendum would be legitimate, Parliament would amend it to be Deal vs Remain. In so doing they would set aside the votes of 17.4 million people and teach them all that voting has no purpose if they disagree with their “betters”

    2. Inertia is the most powerful force in politics. Once it is done it is done and it will go back to being a minority interest

    3. Get a grip. It’s 4 f*****g days. After Bercow and others have abused parliamentary procedure

    This four days rubbish has to stop. It's simply untrue.
    You’re right. Radio 4 just said it is 3 days. I apologise.
    Which is also untrue. Prorogation removes weeks from the disposal of Parliament, weeks that it looked set to use.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s amazing that there now seems something of the jackboot about Boris - sweeping away ancient constitutional safeguards with a snigger and a sneer. That carefully crafted jovial-chap-of-the-people persona is in tatters. Cummings couldn’t have thought this through.

    Did you say the same sbout Major in 1997? Do you thijk the same sbout Atlee in 1948? Both did the same thing for similarly self serving reasons. Not sure anyone said there was something of the jackboot about them

    Boris is stupid and wrong on this but the hyperbole coming from his opponents is farcical.
    Yup, diehard Remainers wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal and ignoring the Leave vote in the EU referendum, Boris and Cummings are now prepared to fight it to deliver Brexit come hell or high water on 31st October
    Yes, against the will of the people.

    The public do not want no deal and they want Parliament sitting. The polls are clear.

    Just because some angry racist Essex people shouted at you doesn’t change that.
    The people want Brexit, they voted for it, you wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement, a war you have now got.
    As you are incapable of independent thought, let me spell it out for you again.

    There is no majority for no deal. There is no majority for suspending parliament. The polls are clear.

    This move is against the people, not for them.
    No, we are now at war with diehard Remainers who have refused to respect the will of the people to Leave the EU by both voting against a Deal and against No Deal.

    In fact as Opinium has showed this month 46% back going ahead with Brexit even with No Deal, 29% back cancelling Brexit and remaining in the EU and just 12% back delaying Brexit again until a Deal can pass the Commons

    https://www.opinium.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Opinium-Political-Report-8th-August-2019.pdf
    There’s always someone prepared to defend the indefensible. Ours is HYUFD. Democrats don’t suspend parliament whatever these apologists say.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,263
    Great questions btw @Cyclefree
  • Beth Rigby on Sky news just said that the opponents told her they have the numbers, have the time and have the will to prevent no deal. She went on to say they are concentrating their minds on legislating out a no deal

    Certainly no vonc this side of the 9th September so no GE possible until after 31st October
  • Streeter said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    The headlines in the Scottish newspapers are an SNP dream.

    The Record was always a reliably unionist paper.
    The Record is a leftwing pro Labour Remainer paper that even endorsed SNP candidates over Tories in the 2017 general election
    HYUFD is a former diehard REMAINER who thought it was wrong to vote LEAVE in 2016.
    You've got NOTHING to crow about. BE LEAVE you said. You're one of those RESPONSIBLE for today's execrable events.
    "Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth."
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s amazing that there now seems something of the jackboot about Boris - sweeping away ancient constitutional safeguards with a snigger and a sneer. That carefully crafted jovial-chap-of-the-people persona is in tatters. Cummings couldn’t have thought this through.

    Did you say the same sbout Major in 1997? Do you thijk the same sbout Atlee in 1948? Both did the same thing for similarly self serving reasons. Not sure anyone said there was something of the jackboot about them

    Boris is stupid and wrong on this but the hyperbole coming from his opponents is farcical.
    Yup, diehard Remainers wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal and ignoring the Leave vote in the EU referendum, Boris and Cummings are now prepared to fight it to deliver Brexit come hell or high water on 31st October
    Yes, against the will of the people.

    The public do not want no deal and they want Parliament sitting. The polls are clear.

    Just because some angry racist Essex people shouted at you doesn’t change that.
    The people want Brexit, they voted for it, you wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement, a war you have now got.
    As you are incapable of independent thought, let me spell it out for you again.

    There is no majority for no deal. There is no majority for suspending parliament. The polls are clear.

    This move is against the people, not for them.
    No, we are now at war with diehard Remainers who have refused to respect the will of the people to Leave the EU by both voting against a Deal and against No Deal.

    In fact as Opinium has showed this month 46% back going ahead with Brexit even with No Deal, 29% back cancelling Brexit and remaining in the EU and just 12% back delaying Brexit again until a Deal can pass the Commons

    https://www.opinium.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Opinium-Political-Report-8th-August-2019.pdf
    There’s always someone prepared to defend the indefensible. Ours is HYUFD. Democrats don’t suspend parliament whatever these apologists say.
    Democrats respect the biggest vote in postwar history to Leave the EU!!
  • Heh.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,263
    I can only think Johnson is betting both the country's and his future on the EU blinking. I can't see why they will.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,835
    The most galling thing about today is the PM blathering on about needing a QS so his plans for education and crime, etc, can come to the fore.
    As if no one can see that him and his mates' Euro obsession has led to no one giving a toss about them for 4 years.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    What a catastrophic shitshow today.

    HYUFD, PT and some others here on the far right may try to justify this, but eventually they will see through the magician's sleight of hand.

    These are politically the worst days of my life. Even if you are a Brexiteer you cannot, in your heart of hearts, believe this is a way to carry on. It began with Theresa May of course, who vented her frustration rather too many times on MPs who were, in turn, only trying to make up for the crass simplicity of the ill-conceived binary vote that Cameron presented in the first place.

    And now we have this chancer in charge.

    Wake me up in 20 years.

    For the PM Boris Twentieth Anniversary Street Party? You really want that....?
    He will be lucky to celebrate 3 months in office at this rate! :wink:

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    edited August 2019
    Scott_P said:
    That probably was right on Sunday.

    Then all the Remainer leaders at Westminster got together yesterday and started threatning all sorts against the government.

    Did they seriously think the government would just sit back and let themselves be pushed around? Actually after three years of Theresa May that's probably exactly what they did think... :D
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s amazing that there now seems something of the jackboot about Boris - sweeping away ancient constitutional safeguards with a snigger and a sneer. That carefully crafted jovial-chap-of-the-people persona is in tatters. Cummings couldn’t have thought this through.

    Did you say the same sbout Major in 1997? Do you thijk the same sbout Atlee in 1948? Both did the same thing for similarly self serving reasons. Not sure anyone said there was something of the jackboot about them

    Boris is stupid and wrong on this but the hyperbole coming from his opponents is farcical.
    Yup, diehard Remainers wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal and ignoring the Leave vote in the EU referendum, Boris and Cummings are now prepared to fight it to deliver Brexit come hell or high water on 31st October
    Yes, against the will of the people.

    The public do not want no deal and they want Parliament sitting. The polls are clear.

    Just because some angry racist Essex people shouted at you doesn’t change that.
    The people want Brexit, they voted for it, you wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement, a war you have now got.
    As you are incapable of independent thought, let me spell it out for you again.

    There is no majority for no deal. There is no majority for suspending parliament. The polls are clear.

    This move is against the people, not for them.
    No, we are now at war with diehard Remainers who have refused to respect the will of the people to Leave the EU by both voting against a Deal and against No Deal.

    In fact as Opinium has showed this month 46% back going ahead with Brexit even with No Deal, 29% back cancelling Brexit and remaining in the EU and just 12% back delaying Brexit again until a Deal can pass the Commons

    https://www.opinium.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Opinium-Political-Report-8th-August-2019.pdf
    There’s always someone prepared to defend the indefensible. Ours is HYUFD. Democrats don’t suspend parliament whatever these apologists say.
    Democrats respect the biggest vote in postwar history to Leave the EU!!
    God you’re boring.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s amazing that there now seems something of the jackboot about Boris - sweeping away ancient constitutional safeguards with a snigger and a sneer. That carefully crafted jovial-chap-of-the-people persona is in tatters. Cummings couldn’t have thought this through.

    Did you say the same sbout Major in 1997? Do you thijk the same sbout Atlee in 1948? Both did the same thing for similarly self serving reasons. Not sure anyone said there was something of the jackboot about them

    Boris is stupid and wrong on this but the hyperbole coming from his opponents is farcical.
    Yup, diehard Remainers wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal and ignoring the Leave vote in the EU referendum, Boris and Cummings are now prepared to fight it to deliver Brexit come hell or high water on 31st October
    Yes, against the will of the people.

    The public do not want no deal and they want Parliament sitting. The polls are clear.

    Just because some angry racist Essex people shouted at you doesn’t change that.
    The people want Brexit, they voted for it, you wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement, a war you have now got.
    As you are incapable of independent thought, let me spell it out for you again.

    There is no majority for no deal. There is no majority for suspending parliament. The polls are clear.

    This move is against the people, not for them.
    No, we are now at war with diehard Remainers who have refused to respect the will of the people to Leave the EU by both voting against a Deal and against No Deal.

    In fact as Opinium has showed this month 46% back going ahead with Brexit even with No Deal, 29% back cancelling Brexit and remaining in the EU and just 12% back delaying Brexit again until a Deal can pass the Commons

    https://www.opinium.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Opinium-Political-Report-8th-August-2019.pdf
    There’s always someone prepared to defend the indefensible. Ours is HYUFD. Democrats don’t suspend parliament whatever these apologists say.
    Democrats respect the biggest vote in postwar history to Leave the EU!!
    You are no democrat, we learned that today. Sad.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s amazing that there now seems something of the jackboot about Boris - sweeping away ancient constitutional safeguards with a snigger and a sneer. That carefully crafted jovial-chap-of-the-people persona is in tatters. Cummings couldn’t have thought this through.

    Did you say the same sbout Major in 1997? Do you thijk the same sbout Atlee in 1948? Both did the same thing for similarly self serving reasons. Not sure anyone said there was something of the jackboot about them

    Boris is stupid and wrong on this but the hyperbole coming from his opponents is farcical.
    Yup, diehard Remainers wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal and ignoring the Leave vote in the EU referendum, Boris and Cummings are now prepared to fight it to deliver Brexit come hell or high water on 31st October
    Yes, against the will of the people.

    The public do not want no deal and they want Parliament sitting. The polls are clear.

    Just because some angry racist Essex people shouted at you doesn’t change that.
    The people want Brexit, they voted for it, you wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement, a war you have now got.
    As you are incapable of independent thought, let me spell it out for you again.

    There is no majority for no deal. There is no majority for suspending parliament. The polls are clear.

    This move is against the people, not for them.
    No, we are now at war with diehard Remainers who have refused to respect the will of the people to Leave the EU by both voting against a Deal and against No Deal.

    In fact as Opinium has showed this month 46% back going ahead with Brexit even with No Deal, 29% back cancelling Brexit and remaining in the EU and just 12% back delaying Brexit again until a Deal can pass the Commons

    https://www.opinium.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Opinium-Political-Report-8th-August-2019.pdf
    “We are now at war...” ?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,263
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s amazing that there now seems something of the jackboot about Boris - sweeping away ancient constitutional safeguards with a snigger and a sneer. That carefully crafted jovial-chap-of-the-people persona is in tatters. Cummings couldn’t have thought this through.

    Did you say the same sbout Major in 1997? Do you thijk the same sbout Atlee in 1948? Both did the same thing for similarly self serving reasons. Not sure anyone said there was something of the jackboot about them

    Boris is stupid and wrong on this but the hyperbole coming from his opponents is farcical.
    Yup, diehard Remainers wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal and ignoring the Leave vote in the EU referendum, Boris and Cummings are now prepared to fight it to deliver Brexit come hell or high water on 31st October
    Yes, against the will of the people.

    The public do not want no deal and they want Parliament sitting. The polls are clear.

    Just because some angry racist Essex people shouted at you doesn’t change that.
    The people want Brexit, they voted for it, you wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement, a war you have now got.
    As you are incapable of independent thought, let me spell it out for you again.

    There is no majority for no deal. There is no majority for suspending parliament. The polls are clear.

    This move is against the people, not for them.
    No, we are now at war with diehard Remainers who have refused to respect the will of the people to Leave the EU by both voting against a Deal and against No Deal.

    In fact as Opinium has showed this month 46% back going ahead with Brexit even with No Deal, 29% back cancelling Brexit and remaining in the EU and just 12% back delaying Brexit again until a Deal can pass the Commons

    https://www.opinium.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Opinium-Political-Report-8th-August-2019.pdf
    There’s always someone prepared to defend the indefensible. Ours is HYUFD. Democrats don’t suspend parliament whatever these apologists say.
    Democrats respect the biggest vote in postwar history to Leave the EU!!
    I think we already ascertained the biggest vote in post-war history was the 1992 GE.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,052
    kle4 said:

    Charles said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    1. Because while a Deal vs No Deal referendum would be legitimate, Parliament would amend it to be Deal vs Remain. In so doing they would set aside the votes of 17.4 million people and teach them all that voting has no purpose if they disagree with their “betters”

    2. Inertia is the most powerful force in politics. Once it is done it is done and it will go back to being a minority interest

    3. Get a grip. It’s 4 f*****g days. After Bercow and others have abused parliamentary procedure

    3 - It's not 4 days. It's 4 days + 4 days for the Queen's Speech which cannot be overridden.

    At a minimum it's 8 days and that depends on when the proroguing begins. It's possible that it begins on September 9th which removes another 3 days of debates.

    Between those items it reduces Parliament from 25 days of sitting where things were editable down to 14.
    It’s reasonable that a new PM gets to submit a new Queen’s Speech

    FWIW I don’t think this a sensible thing for Boris to do. It is constitutional and it is legitimate, but it’s a red rag to a bull. That being said the squeals of outrage are confected
    That may be quite reasonable. It could well be legal, even effective, and still be, as I believe, a really really bad idea.

    The mendacious claim that this is routine is quite something. Why not have a new Queens speech in the first week of November?

    Trashing Parliament is not a good start to Brexit Britain.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    1. Because while a Deal vs No Deal referendum would be legitimate, Parliament would amend it to be Deal vs Remain. In so doing they would set aside the votes of 17.4 million people and teach them all that voting has no purpose if they disagree with their “betters”

    2. Inertia is the most powerful force in politics. Once it is done it is done and it will go back to being a minority interest

    3. Get a grip. It’s 4 f*****g days. After Bercow and others have abused parliamentary procedure

    This four days rubbish has to stop. It's simply untrue.
    You’re right. Radio 4 just said it is 3 days. I apologise.
    Which is also untrue. Prorogation removes weeks from the disposal of Parliament, weeks that it looked set to use.
    Like it made such effective use of the past three-and-a-bit years?

    The means to resolve the situation still exists and is available to MPs should they wish to avail themselves of it: replace the Government.

    Boris Johnson can afford to upset MPs because they won't get rid of him. Their choice.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s amazing that there now seems something of the jackboot about Boris - sweeping away ancient constitutional safeguards with a snigger and a sneer. That carefully crafted jovial-chap-of-the-people persona is in tatters. Cummings couldn’t have thought this through.

    Did you say the same sbout Major in 1997? Do you thijk the same sbout Atlee in 1948? Both did the same thing for similarly self serving reasons. Not sure anyone said there was something of the jackboot about them

    Boris is stupid and wrong on this but the hyperbole coming from his opponents is farcical.
    Yup, diehard Remainers wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal and ignoring the Leave vote in the EU referendum, Boris and Cummings are now prepared to fight it to deliver Brexit come hell or high water on 31st October
    Yes, against the will of the people.

    The public do not want no deal and they want Parliament sitting. The polls are clear.

    Just because some angry racist Essex people shouted at you doesn’t change that.
    The people want Brexit, they voted for it, you wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement, a war you have now got.
    As you are incapable of independent thought, let me spell it out for you again.

    There is no majority for no deal. There is no majority for suspending parliament. The polls are clear.

    This move is against the people, not for them.
    No, we are now at war with diehard Remainers who have refused to respect the will of the people to Leave the EU by both voting against a Deal and against No Deal.

    In fact as Opinium has showed this month 46% back going ahead with Brexit even with No Deal, 29% back cancelling Brexit and remaining in the EU and just 12% back delaying Brexit again until a Deal can pass the Commons

    https://www.opinium.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Opinium-Political-Report-8th-August-2019.pdf
    Well then let's have a referendum with No Deal on the ballot paper if you're so confident.
    We had a referendum, it resulted in a vote to Leave the EU, Boris will now deliver it.

    Once we have left if another party wins on a referendum commitment to rejoin the EU or the EEA that is another matter but the first vote result must be delivered first
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    True enough.

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    1. Because while a Deal vs No Deal referendum would be legitimate, Parliament would amend it to be Deal vs Remain. In so doing they would set aside the votes of 17.4 million people and teach them all that voting has no purpose if they disagree with their “betters”

    2. Inertia is the most powerful force in politics. Once it is done it is done and it will go back to being a minority interest

    3. Get a grip. It’s 4 f*****g days. After Bercow and others have abused parliamentary procedure

    This four days rubbish has to stop. It's simply untrue.
    You’re right. Radio 4 just said it is 3 days. I apologise.
    Which is also untrue. Prorogation removes weeks from the disposal of Parliament, weeks that it looked set to use.
    Like it made such effective use of the past three-and-a-bit years?

    The means to resolve the situation still exists and is available to MPs should they wish to avail themselves of it: replace the Government.

    Boris Johnson can afford to upset MPs because they won't get rid of him. Their choice.
    True enough. Hopefully they will stop prevaricating and do what needs doing, whatever that is. If this spares us more dissembling then it was a blessing in disguise.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    edited August 2019
    Charles said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    1. Because while a Deal vs No Deal referendum would be legitimate, Parliament would amend it to be Deal vs Remain. In so doing they would set aside the votes of 17.4 million people and teach them all that voting has no purpose if they disagree with their “betters”

    2. Inertia is the most powerful force in politics. Once it is done it is done and it will go back to being a minority interest

    3. Get a grip. It’s 4 f*****g days. After Bercow and others have abused parliamentary procedure

    3 - It's not 4 days. It's 4 days + 4 days for the Queen's Speech which cannot be overridden.

    At a minimum it's 8 days and that depends on when the proroguing begins. It's possible that it begins on September 9th which removes another 3 days of debates.

    Between those items it reduces Parliament from 25 days of sitting where things were editable down to 14.
    It’s reasonable that a new PM gets to submit a new Queen’s Speech

    FWIW I don’t think this a sensible thing for Boris to do. It is constitutional and it is legitimate, but it’s a red rag to a bull. That being said the squeals of outrage are confected
    Yes but that can be done with a proroguing of 2 days. It doesn't need 35 days or 5 weeks.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    viewcode said:

    glw said:

    The one good thing about today is that it should focus the minds of those who wish to stop no deal Brexit. They are going to get one shot at it, and they need to get all their ducks in a row. We will know shortly whether stopping the UK crashing out is possible. If not, everybody has about seven weeks to get ready as it is almost certain to happen now.

    No Deal can be stopped on October 31st by VONCing and installing a PM to revoke Article 50. They don’t just have one shot at it.
    I'm sorry, but I don't think that's realistic. You can't do these things at the last minute.
    Good way to provoke armed gammon on the streets

    viewcode said:

    glw said:

    The one good thing about today is that it should focus the minds of those who wish to stop no deal Brexit. They are going to get one shot at it, and they need to get all their ducks in a row. We will know shortly whether stopping the UK crashing out is possible. If not, everybody has about seven weeks to get ready as it is almost certain to happen now.

    No Deal can be stopped on October 31st by VONCing and installing a PM to revoke Article 50. They don’t just have one shot at it.
    I'm sorry, but I don't think that's realistic. You can't do these things at the last minute.
    Good way to provoke armed gammon on the streets
    Now we’re seeing their true colours: if they don’t get their way they will resort to armed conflict.

    Murdering an opposition MP and suspending democracy was just the start. They really do mean to provoke serious civil unrest.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s amazing that there now seems something of the jackboot about Boris - sweeping away ancient constitutional safeguards with a snigger and a sneer. That carefully crafted jovial-chap-of-the-people persona is in tatters. Cummings couldn’t have thought this through.

    Did you say the same sbout Major in 1997? Do you thijk the same sbout Atlee in 1948? Both did the same thing for similarly self serving reasons. Not sure anyone said there was something of the jackboot about them

    Boris is stupid and wrong on this but the hyperbole coming from his opponents is farcical.
    Yup, diehard Remainers wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal and ignoring the Leave vote in the EU referendum, Boris and Cummings are now prepared to fight it to deliver Brexit come hell or high water on 31st October
    Yes, against the will of the people.

    The public do not want no deal and they want Parliament sitting. The polls are clear.

    Just because some angry racist Essex people shouted at you doesn’t change that.
    The people want Brexit, they voted for it, you wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement, a war you have now got.
    It is a period of civil war. REMAINER spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first electoral victory against the evil TORY EMPIRE.

    During the battle, Remainer spies managed to steal secret plans to the Tories' ultimate weapon, the PROROGATION, an armored space station with enough power to destroy an entire parliamentary session!

    Pursued by the Tories' sinister agents, Princess Nicola Anna Heidi Jo races home aboard her starship, custodian of the stolen plans that can save her people and restore Freedom of Movement to the Continent…
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    Streeter said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    The headlines in the Scottish newspapers are an SNP dream.

    The Record was always a reliably unionist paper.
    The Record is a leftwing pro Labour Remainer paper that even endorsed SNP candidates over Tories in the 2017 general election
    HYUFD is a former diehard REMAINER who thought it was wrong to vote LEAVE in 2016.
    You've got NOTHING to crow about. BE LEAVE you said. You're one of those RESPONSIBLE for today's execrable events.
    "Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth."
    Sunil now a fully fledged metropolitan elitist, prosecco and sundried tomato and guacomale diehard Remainer
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s amazing that there now seems something of the jackboot about Boris - sweeping away ancient constitutional safeguards with a snigger and a sneer. That carefully crafted jovial-chap-of-the-people persona is in tatters. Cummings couldn’t have thought this through.

    Did you say the same sbout Major in 1997? Do you thijk the same sbout Atlee in 1948? Both did the same thing for similarly self serving reasons. Not sure anyone said there was something of the jackboot about them

    Boris is stupid and wrong on this but the hyperbole coming from his opponents is farcical.
    Yup, diehard Remainers wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal and ignoring the Leave vote in the EU referendum, Boris and Cummings are now prepared to fight it to deliver Brexit come hell or high water on 31st October
    Yes, against the will of the people.

    The public do not want no deal and they want Parliament sitting. The polls are clear.

    Just because some angry racist Essex people shouted at you doesn’t change that.
    The people want Brexit, they voted for it, you wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement, a war you have now got.
    As you are incapable of independent thought, let me spell it out for you again.

    There is no majority for no deal. There is no majority for suspending parliament. The polls are clear.

    This move is against the people, not for them.
    No, we are now at war with diehard Remainers who have refused to respect the will of the people to Leave the EU by both voting against a Deal and against No Deal.

    In fact as Opinium has showed this month 46% back going ahead with Brexit even with No Deal, 29% back cancelling Brexit and remaining in the EU and just 12% back delaying Brexit again until a Deal can pass the Commons

    https://www.opinium.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Opinium-Political-Report-8th-August-2019.pdf
    So you are just ignoring todays YouGov poll because it does not suit your agenda?
    Less than 50% of voters opposed proroguing Parliament in that poll, most Leave voters backed it and Leave won the referendum
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Beth Rigby on Sky news just said that the opponents told her they have the numbers, have the time and have the will to prevent no deal. She went on to say they are concentrating their minds on legislating out a no deal

    Certainly no vonc this side of the 9th September so no GE possible until after 31st October

    Have they bothered to explain how the intend to prevent No Deal by legislation? What will happen if they legislate to order the Government to seek an A50 extension, but Boris Johnson refuses?
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s amazing that there now seems something of the jackboot about Boris - sweeping away ancient constitutional safeguards with a snigger and a sneer. That carefully crafted jovial-chap-of-the-people persona is in tatters. Cummings couldn’t have thought this through.

    Did you say the same sbout Major in 1997? Do you thijk the same sbout Atlee in 1948? Both did the same thing for similarly self serving reasons. Not sure anyone said there was something of the jackboot about them

    Boris is stupid and wrong on this but the hyperbole coming from his opponents is farcical.
    Yup, diehard Remainers wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal and ignoring the Leave vote in the EU referendum, Boris and Cummings are now prepared to fight it to deliver Brexit come hell or high water on 31st October
    Yes, against the will of the people.

    The public do not want no deal and they want Parliament sitting. The polls are clear.

    Just because some angry racist Essex people shouted at you doesn’t change that.
    The people want Brexit, they voted for it, you wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement, a war you have now got.
    As you are incapable of independent thought, let me spell it out for you again.

    There is no majority for no deal. There is no majority for suspending parliament. The polls are clear.

    This move is against the people, not for them.
    No, we are now at war with diehard Remainers who have refused to respect the will of the people to Leave the EU by both voting against a Deal and against No Deal.

    In fact as Opinium has showed this month 46% back going ahead with Brexit even with No Deal, 29% back cancelling Brexit and remaining in the EU and just 12% back delaying Brexit again until a Deal can pass the Commons

    https://www.opinium.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Opinium-Political-Report-8th-August-2019.pdf
    Well then let's have a referendum with No Deal on the ballot paper if you're so confident.
    We had a referendum, it resulted in a vote to Leave the EU, Boris will now deliver it.

    Once we have left if another party wins on a referendum commitment to rejoin the EU or the EEA that is another matter but the first vote result must be delivered first
    You are aware that we will rejoin the EU on far worse terms than we currently have and accept them having found our real worth in the world..
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s amazing that there now seems something of the jackboot about Boris - sweeping away ancient constitutional safeguards with a snigger and a sneer. That carefully crafted jovial-chap-of-the-people persona is in tatters. Cummings couldn’t have thought this through.

    Did you say the same sbout Major in 1997? Do you thijk the same sbout Atlee in 1948? Both did the same thing for similarly self serving reasons. Not sure anyone said there was something of the jackboot about them

    Boris is stupid and wrong on this but the hyperbole coming from his opponents is farcical.
    Yup, diehard Remainers wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal and ignoring the Leave vote in the EU referendum, Boris and Cummings are now prepared to fight it to deliver Brexit come hell or high water on 31st October
    Yes, against the will of the people.

    The public do not want no deal and they want Parliament sitting. The polls are clear.

    Just because some angry racist Essex people shouted at you doesn’t change that.
    The people want Brexit, they voted for it, you wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement, a war you have now got.
    As you are incapable of independent thought, let me spell it out for you again.

    There is no majority for no deal. There is no majority for suspending parliament. The polls are clear.

    This move is against the people, not for them.
    No, we are now at war with diehard Remainers who have refused to respect the will of the people to Leave the EU by both voting against a Deal and against No Deal.

    In fact as Opinium has showed this month 46% back going ahead with Brexit even with No Deal, 29% back cancelling Brexit and remaining in the EU and just 12% back delaying Brexit again until a Deal can pass the Commons

    https://www.opinium.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Opinium-Political-Report-8th-August-2019.pdf
    Well then let's have a referendum with No Deal on the ballot paper if you're so confident.
    We had a referendum, it resulted in a vote to Leave the EU, Boris will now deliver it.

    Once we have left if another party wins on a referendum commitment to rejoin the EU or the EEA that is another matter but the first vote result must be delivered first
    Having trashed the union, our international reputation and any chance of national unity in the process.

    Nice one. Really f*cking well done.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s amazing that there now seems something of the jackboot about Boris - sweeping away ancient constitutional safeguards with a snigger and a sneer. That carefully crafted jovial-chap-of-the-people persona is in tatters. Cummings couldn’t have thought this through.

    Did you say the same sbout Major in 1997? Do you thijk the same sbout Atlee in 1948? Both did the same thing for similarly self serving reasons. Not sure anyone said there was something of the jackboot about them

    Boris is stupid and wrong on this but the hyperbole coming from his opponents is farcical.
    Yup, diehard Remainers wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal and ignoring the Leave vote in the EU referendum, Boris and Cummings are now prepared to fight it to deliver Brexit come hell or high water on 31st October
    Yes, against the will of the people.

    The public do not want no deal and they want Parliament sitting. The polls are clear.

    Just because some angry racist Essex people shouted at you doesn’t change that.
    The people want Brexit, they voted for it, you wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement, a war you have now got.
    As you are incapable of independent thought, let me spell it out for you again.

    There is no majority for no deal. There is no majority for suspending parliament. The polls are clear.

    This move is against the people, not for them.
    No, we are now at war with diehard Remainers who have refused to respect the will of the people to Leave the EU by both voting against a Deal and against No Deal.

    In fact as Opinium has showed this month 46% back going ahead with Brexit even with No Deal, 29% back cancelling Brexit and remaining in the EU and just 12% back delaying Brexit again until a Deal can pass the Commons

    https://www.opinium.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Opinium-Political-Report-8th-August-2019.pdf
    “We are now at war...” ?
    They’ve stopped pretending.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695

    Beth Rigby on Sky news just said that the opponents told her they have the numbers, have the time and have the will to prevent no deal. She went on to say they are concentrating their minds on legislating out a no deal

    Certainly no vonc this side of the 9th September so no GE possible until after 31st October

    That's probaly right but I still can't see how MPs can "legislate" to tell the government to extend or revoke A50 to stop No Deal if the government doesn't want to...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,052

    Streeter said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    The headlines in the Scottish newspapers are an SNP dream.

    The Record was always a reliably unionist paper.
    The Record is a leftwing pro Labour Remainer paper that even endorsed SNP candidates over Tories in the 2017 general election
    HYUFD is a former diehard REMAINER who thought it was wrong to vote LEAVE in 2016.
    You've got NOTHING to crow about. BE LEAVE you said. You're one of those RESPONSIBLE for today's execrable events.
    "Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth."
    I am glad that you have switched sides, and turned away from the dark side.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    edited August 2019
    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    1. Because while a Deal vs No Deal referendum would be legitimate, Parliament would amend it to be Deal vs Remain. In so doing they would set aside the votes of 17.4 million people and teach them all that voting has no purpose if they disagree with their “betters”

    2. Inertia is the most powerful force in politics. Once it is done it is done and it will go back to being a minority interest

    3. Get a grip. It’s 4 f*****g days. After Bercow and others have abused parliamentary procedure

    This four days rubbish has to stop. It's simply untrue.
    You’re right. Radio 4 just said it is 3 days. I apologise.
    You are as disingenuous as the PM.
    The prorogation is for over a month.
    Pretty standard dissembling from Charles, sadly.

    Just watched News at 10.
    Outright lies from Johnson and Gove.
    Disgusting stuff.
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    We voted to leave 3 and a bit years ago, and Parliament has refused to implement the voters instructions despite assuring us it would so so. If ever a Parliament deserved suspending it's this one.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623
    HYUFD said:

    The headlines in the Scottish newspapers are an SNP dream.

    Rubbish, even Wings over Scotland today attacked the SNP for blocking the Brexit UK voters voted for, saying how would they feel if Unionists blocked a 52% to 48% Leave the UK vote?
    Yes because the Wings position is (fairly reasonably) that Scotland didn't vote for this shit show and it should get out, stop trying to save a dead donkey and let England do whatever madness it wants itself on its own terms.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s amazing that there now seems something of the jackboot about Boris - sweeping away ancient constitutional safeguards with a snigger and a sneer. That carefully crafted jovial-chap-of-the-people persona is in tatters. Cummings couldn’t have thought this through.

    Did you say the same sbout Major in 1997? Do you thijk the same sbout Atlee in 1948? Both did the same thing for similarly self serving reasons. Not sure anyone said there was something of the jackboot about them

    Boris is stupid and wrong on this but the hyperbole coming from his opponents is farcical.
    Yup, diehard Remainers wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal and ignoring the Leave vote in the EU referendum, Boris and Cummings are now prepared to fight it to deliver Brexit come hell or high water on 31st October
    Yes, against the will of the people.

    The public do not want no deal and they want Parliament sitting. The polls are clear.

    Just because some angry racist Essex people shouted at you doesn’t change that.
    The people want Brexit, they voted for it, you wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement, a war you have now got.
    As you are incapable of independent thought, let me spell it out for you again.

    There is no majority for no deal. There is no majority for suspending parliament. The polls are clear.

    This move is against the people, not for them.
    No, we are now at war with diehard Remainers who have refused to respect the will of the people to Leave the EU by both voting against a Deal and against No Deal.

    In fact as Opinium has showed this month 46% back going ahead with Brexit even with No Deal, 29% back cancelling Brexit and remaining in the EU and just 12% back delaying Brexit again until a Deal can pass the Commons

    https://www.opinium.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Opinium-Political-Report-8th-August-2019.pdf
    So you are just ignoring todays YouGov poll because it does not suit your agenda?
    Less than 50% of voters opposed proroguing Parliament in that poll, most Leave voters backed it and Leave won the referendum
    Half of leave voters!

    My god you are an imbecile.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    1. Because while a Deal vs No Deal referendum would be legitimate, Parliament would amend it to be Deal vs Remain. In so doing they would set aside the votes of 17.4 million people and teach them all that voting has no purpose if they disagree with their “betters”

    2. Inertia is the most powerful force in politics. Once it is done it is done and it will go back to being a minority interest

    3. Get a grip. It’s 4 f*****g days. After Bercow and others have abused parliamentary procedure

    This four days rubbish has to stop. It's simply untrue.
    You’re right. Radio 4 just said it is 3 days. I apologise.
    Which is also untrue. Prorogation removes weeks from the disposal of Parliament, weeks that it looked set to use.
    Like it made such effective use of the past three-and-a-bit years?

    The means to resolve the situation still exists and is available to MPs should they wish to avail themselves of it: replace the Government.

    Boris Johnson can afford to upset MPs because they won't get rid of him. Their choice.
    Hang on, let's focus on the government seeking to take time away from Parliament at a critical period in order to push through a policy that was not campaigned for under a Prime Minister who was not voted for with a government with no majority.

    We can move onto other weaknesses in Britain's democracy once we've addressed those rather major problems.
  • HYUFD said:

    Streeter said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    The headlines in the Scottish newspapers are an SNP dream.

    The Record was always a reliably unionist paper.
    The Record is a leftwing pro Labour Remainer paper that even endorsed SNP candidates over Tories in the 2017 general election
    HYUFD is a former diehard REMAINER who thought it was wrong to vote LEAVE in 2016.
    You've got NOTHING to crow about. BE LEAVE you said. You're one of those RESPONSIBLE for today's execrable events.
    "Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth."
    Sunil now a fully fledged metropolitan elitist, prosecco and sundried tomato and guacomale diehard Remainer
    I hate avocado and I don't drink, so there :p
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,743
    kle4 said:


    People are welcome to want to change a terrible system and think Charles et al are personally terrible. But pretending it’s about if HM would be personally popular enough to get the position in an election is avoiding whether it is good or terrible and focusing on the individuals. There are no shortage of arguments against it without going down that weak sauce route.

    Could I as a fairly convinced republican play devil's advocate for a passing moment?

    Charles seems to genuinely love his sons & they him, he and Camilla seem to make each other happy, he ploughs his own furrow (frequently to his own detriment) and he's far preferable to his ghastly brothers. If we have to have an out of touch, over privileged product of a limited gene pool imposed on us, we could do worse.

    Phew, glad I got that out of my system.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,749
    Roger said:

    The answer to the three questions;

    Time for the gilet jaunes to mobilise.

    Unfortunately my hoodie is in the wash and all my hi-viz gear has my employer’s name on it...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    1. Because while a Deal vs No Deal referendum would be legitimate, Parliament would amend it to be Deal vs Remain. In so doing they would set aside the votes of 17.4 million people and teach them all that voting has no purpose if they disagree with their “betters”

    2. Inertia is the most powerful force in politics. Once it is done it is done and it will go back to being a minority interest

    3. Get a grip. It’s 4 f*****g days. After Bercow and others have abused parliamentary procedure

    This four days rubbish has to stop. It's simply untrue.
    You’re right. Radio 4 just said it is 3 days. I apologise.
    You are as disingenuous as the PM.
    The prorogation is for over a month.
    So not much longer than normal then
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,052

    We voted to leave 3 and a bit years ago, and Parliament has refused to implement the voters instructions despite assuring us it would so so. If ever a Parliament deserved suspending it's this one.

    This is a different Parliament. There was a GE in 2017, so Parliament has the more recent mandate.
  • GIN1138 said:

    Beth Rigby on Sky news just said that the opponents told her they have the numbers, have the time and have the will to prevent no deal. She went on to say they are concentrating their minds on legislating out a no deal

    Certainly no vonc this side of the 9th September so no GE possible until after 31st October

    That's probaly right but I still can't see how MPs can "legislate" to tell the government to extend or revoke A50 to stop No Deal if the government doesn't want to...
    Neither can I but who knows
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s amazing that there now seems something of the jackboot about Boris - sweeping away ancient constitutional safeguards with a snigger and a sneer. That carefully crafted jovial-chap-of-the-people persona is in tatters. Cummings couldn’t have thought this through.

    Did you say the same sbout Major in 1997? Do you thijk the same sbout Atlee in 1948? Both did the same thing for similarly self serving reasons. Not sure anyone said there was something of the jackboot about them

    Boris is stupid and wrong on this but the hyperbole coming from his opponents is farcical.
    Yup, diehard Remainers wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal and ignoring the Leave vote in the EU referendum, Boris and Cummings are now prepared to fight it to deliver Brexit come hell or high water on 31st October
    Yes, against the will of the people.

    The public do not want no deal and they want Parliament sitting. The polls are clear.

    Just because some angry racist Essex people shouted at you doesn’t change that.
    The people want Brexit, they voted for it, you wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement, a war you have now got.
    As you are incapable of independent thought, let me spell it out for you again.

    There is no majority for no deal. There is no majority for suspending parliament. The polls are clear.

    This move is against the people, not for them.
    No, we are now at war with diehard Remainers who have refused to respect the will of the people to Leave the EU by both voting against a Deal and against No Deal.

    In fact as Opinium has showed this month 46% back going ahead with Brexit even with No Deal, 29% back cancelling Brexit and remaining in the EU and just 12% back delaying Brexit again until a Deal can pass the Commons

    https://www.opinium.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Opinium-Political-Report-8th-August-2019.pdf
    There’s always someone prepared to defend the indefensible. Ours is HYUFD. Democrats don’t suspend parliament whatever these apologists say.
    Democrats respect the biggest vote in postwar history to Leave the EU!!
    I think we already ascertained the biggest vote in post-war history was the 1992 GE.
    No, 14, 093, 007 voted for Major's Tories in 1992, 17, 410, 742 voted Leave in 2016
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    1. Because while a Deal vs No Deal referendum would be legitimate, Parliament would amend it to be Deal vs Remain. In so doing they would set aside the votes of 17.4 million people and teach them all that voting has no purpose if they disagree with their “betters”

    2. Inertia is the most powerful force in politics. Once it is done it is done and it will go back to being a minority interest

    3. Get a grip. It’s 4 f*****g days. After Bercow and others have abused parliamentary procedure

    This four days rubbish has to stop. It's simply untrue.
    You’re right. Radio 4 just said it is 3 days. I apologise.
    Which is also untrue. Prorogation removes weeks from the disposal of Parliament, weeks that it looked set to use.
    The session has been one of the longest in recent history. Parliament’s had plenty of time to act.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    edited August 2019
    Charles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    1. Because while a Deal vs No Deal referendum would be legitimate, Parliament would amend it to be Deal vs Remain. In so doing they would set aside the votes of 17.4 million people and teach them all that voting has no purpose if they disagree with their “betters”

    2. Inertia is the most powerful force in politics. Once it is done it is done and it will go back to being a minority interest

    3. Get a grip. It’s 4 f*****g days. After Bercow and others have abused parliamentary procedure

    This four days rubbish has to stop. It's simply untrue.
    You’re right. Radio 4 just said it is 3 days. I apologise.
    You are as disingenuous as the PM.
    The prorogation is for over a month.
    So not much longer than normal then
    Oh Charles don’t tell me you’ve been corrupted by this too. Sad.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709
    Foxy said:

    We voted to leave 3 and a bit years ago, and Parliament has refused to implement the voters instructions despite assuring us it would so so. If ever a Parliament deserved suspending it's this one.

    This is a different Parliament. There was a GE in 2017, so Parliament has the more recent mandate.
    The Tories and DUP won a majority of seats in 2017 on a manifesto commitment to leave the EU
  • StreeterStreeter Posts: 684

    Streeter said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    The headlines in the Scottish newspapers are an SNP dream.

    The Record was always a reliably unionist paper.
    The Record is a leftwing pro Labour Remainer paper that even endorsed SNP candidates over Tories in the 2017 general election
    HYUFD is a former diehard REMAINER who thought it was wrong to vote LEAVE in 2016.
    You've got NOTHING to crow about. BE LEAVE you said. You're one of those RESPONSIBLE for today's execrable events.
    "Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth."
    Too late. Much too late.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557
    Charles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    1. Because while a Deal vs No Deal referendum would be legitimate, Parliament would amend it to be Deal vs Remain. In so doing they would set aside the votes of 17.4 million people and teach them all that voting has no purpose if they disagree with their “betters”

    2. Inertia is the most powerful force in politics. Once it is done it is done and it will go back to being a minority interest

    3. Get a grip. It’s 4 f*****g days. After Bercow and others have abused parliamentary procedure

    This four days rubbish has to stop. It's simply untrue.
    You’re right. Radio 4 just said it is 3 days. I apologise.
    You are as disingenuous as the PM.
    The prorogation is for over a month.
    So not much longer than normal then
    Sure, in the last 40 years Parliament has never been prorogued for longer than three weeks: in most cases it has been prorogued for only a week or less.

    And that is in normal times.

    As I said, utterly disingenuous.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,911
    Scott_P said:

    I have been a republican all my life until recently when I have grown to respect her decades of service to the Country

    However, on her passing I will rejoin my republican sentiments

    Your finest work...

    https://twitter.com/andreajenkyns/status/1166792547827687426
    It is incredibly stupid of Brexiteers to be implying that the Queen has taking a stand in favour of No Deal.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Charles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    1. Because while a Deal vs No Deal referendum would be legitimate, Parliament would amend it to be Deal vs Remain. In so doing they would set aside the votes of 17.4 million people and teach them all that voting has no purpose if they disagree with their “betters”

    2. Inertia is the most powerful force in politics. Once it is done it is done and it will go back to being a minority interest

    3. Get a grip. It’s 4 f*****g days. After Bercow and others have abused parliamentary procedure

    This four days rubbish has to stop. It's simply untrue.
    You’re right. Radio 4 just said it is 3 days. I apologise.
    You are as disingenuous as the PM.
    The prorogation is for over a month.
    So not much longer than normal then
    Oh come on.

    We all know this is to avoid Brexit debate in Parliament at a critical juncture in this nation's history.

    Don't become as slippery as Johnson.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,052
    edited August 2019
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    We voted to leave 3 and a bit years ago, and Parliament has refused to implement the voters instructions despite assuring us it would so so. If ever a Parliament deserved suspending it's this one.

    This is a different Parliament. There was a GE in 2017, so Parliament has the more recent mandate.
    The Tories and DUP won a majority of seats in 2017 on a manifesto commitment to leave the EU
    Then why prorogue them, if they have the mandate.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,709

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s amazing that there now seems something of the jackboot about Boris - sweeping away ancient constitutional safeguards with a snigger and a sneer. That carefully crafted jovial-chap-of-the-people persona is in tatters. Cummings couldn’t have thought this through.

    Did you say the same sbout Major in 1997? Do you thijk the same sbout Atlee in 1948? Both did the same thing for similarly self serving reasons. Not sure anyone said there was something of the jackboot about them

    Boris is stupid and wrong on this but the hyperbole coming from his opponents is farcical.
    Yup, diehard Remainers wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal and ignoring the Leave vote in the EU referendum, Boris and Cummings are now prepared to fight it to deliver Brexit come hell or high water on 31st October
    Yes, against the will of the people.

    The public do not want no deal and they want Parliament sitting. The polls are clear.

    Just because some angry racist Essex people shouted at you doesn’t change that.
    The people want Brexit, they voted for it, you wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement, a war you have now got.
    As you are incapable of independent thought, let me spell it out for you again.

    There is no majority for no deal. There is no majority for suspending parliament. The polls are clear.

    This move is against the people, not for them.
    No, we are now at war with diehard Remainers who have refused to respect the will of the people to Leave the EU by both voting against a Deal and against No Deal.

    In fact as Opinium has showed this month 46% back going ahead with Brexit even with No Deal, 29% back cancelling Brexit and remaining in the EU and just 12% back delaying Brexit again until a Deal can pass the Commons

    https://www.opinium.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Opinium-Political-Report-8th-August-2019.pdf
    So you are just ignoring todays YouGov poll because it does not suit your agenda?
    Less than 50% of voters opposed proroguing Parliament in that poll, most Leave voters backed it and Leave won the referendum
    Half of leave voters!

    My god you are an imbecile.
    51% is over half, 50% is half.

    Plus only 25% of Leave voters oppose proroguing Parliament
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535
    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s amazing that there now seems something of the jackboot about Boris - sweeping away ancient constitutional safeguards with a snigger and a sneer. That carefully crafted jovial-chap-of-the-people persona is in tatters. Cummings couldn’t have thought this through.

    Did you say the same sbout Major in 1997? Do you thijk the same sbout Atlee in 1948? Both did the same thing for similarly self serving reasons. Not sure anyone said there was something of the jackboot about them

    Boris is stupid and wrong on this but the hyperbole coming from his opponents is farcical.
    Yup, diehard Remainers wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement and No Deal and ignoring the Leave vote in the EU referendum, Boris and Cummings are now prepared to fight it to deliver Brexit come hell or high water on 31st October
    Yes, against the will of the people.

    The public do not want no deal and they want Parliament sitting. The polls are clear.

    Just because some angry racist Essex people shouted at you doesn’t change that.
    The people want Brexit, they voted for it, you wanted a war by voting down the Withdrawal Agreement, a war you have now got.
    As you are incapable of independent thought, let me spell it out for you again.

    There is no majority for no deal. There is no majority for suspending parliament. The polls are clear.

    This move is against the people, not for them.
    No, we are now at war with diehard Remainers who have refused to respect the will of the people to Leave the EU by both voting against a Deal and against No Deal.

    In fact as Opinium has showed this month 46% back going ahead with Brexit even with No Deal, 29% back cancelling Brexit and remaining in the EU and just 12% back delaying Brexit again until a Deal can pass the Commons

    https://www.opinium.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Opinium-Political-Report-8th-August-2019.pdf
    There’s always someone prepared to defend the indefensible. Ours is HYUFD. Democrats don’t suspend parliament whatever these apologists say.
    And if/when it all goes wrong for Boris, The Tories, and Brexit, we can be sure that HYUFD will be here to tell us how it's not a catastrophe it's really a master stroke.

    I mean this quite sincerely he needs deprogramming.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,835
    As an anti-Tory of long standing, I am nonetheless heartened by the number of Tories, both on here, and in the Parliamentary Party and beyond, who are having none of this.

    Forget uniting the Tory and Brexit vote, the PM is going to have a job holding on to the Tory vote at this rate.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,812
    Interesting that both BBC and the Mail are happy using the term “suspend” which sounds worse, in my view, than proroguing.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    kle4 said:


    People are welcome to want to change a terrible system and think Charles et al are personally terrible. But pretending it’s about if HM would be personally popular enough to get the position in an election is avoiding whether it is good or terrible and focusing on the individuals. There are no shortage of arguments against it without going down that weak sauce route.

    Could I as a fairly convinced republican play devil's advocate for a passing moment?

    Charles seems to genuinely love his sons & they him, he and Camilla seem to make each other happy, he ploughs his own furrow (frequently to his own detriment) and he's far preferable to his ghastly brothers. If we have to have an out of touch, over privileged product of a limited gene pool imposed on us, we could do worse.

    Phew, glad I got that out of my system.
    You need a dram after that.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    eek said:

    Charles said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    1. Because while a Deal vs No Deal referendum would be legitimate, Parliament would amend it to be Deal vs Remain. In so doing they would set aside the votes of 17.4 million people and teach them all that voting has no purpose if they disagree with their “betters”

    2. Inertia is the most powerful force in politics. Once it is done it is done and it will go back to being a minority interest

    3. Get a grip. It’s 4 f*****g days. After Bercow and others have abused parliamentary procedure

    3 - It's not 4 days. It's 4 days + 4 days for the Queen's Speech which cannot be overridden.

    At a minimum it's 8 days and that depends on when the proroguing begins. It's possible that it begins on September 9th which removes another 3 days of debates.

    Between those items it reduces Parliament from 25 days of sitting where things were editable down to 14.
    It’s reasonable that a new PM gets to submit a new Queen’s Speech

    FWIW I don’t think this a sensible thing for Boris to do. It is constitutional and it is legitimate, but it’s a red rag to a bull. That being said the squeals of outrage are confected
    Yes but that can be done with a proroguing of 2 days. It doesn't need 35 days or 5 weeks.
    Parliament has the absolute right to pass a VONC. That’s all they need to do.

    But they won’t.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    1. Because while a Deal vs No Deal referendum would be legitimate, Parliament would amend it to be Deal vs Remain. In so doing they would set aside the votes of 17.4 million people and teach them all that voting has no purpose if they disagree with their “betters”

    2. Inertia is the most powerful force in politics. Once it is done it is done and it will go back to being a minority interest

    3. Get a grip. It’s 4 f*****g days. After Bercow and others have abused parliamentary procedure

    This four days rubbish has to stop. It's simply untrue.
    You’re right. Radio 4 just said it is 3 days. I apologise.
    Which is also untrue. Prorogation removes weeks from the disposal of Parliament, weeks that it looked set to use.
    The session has been one of the longest in recent history. Parliament’s had plenty of time to act.
    Any democrat would let Parliament speak in these critical months. We're now finding out the enemies of democracy that lurk among us.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,341
    edited August 2019
    Mr Meeks, parliament has had enough time to say everything that can be said; it has time now (from 3rd September) to VONC and vote confidence in another government and leader (FTPA); (if it does so and Boris doesn't resign and recommend new appointment to HM that will be the time to cry 'tyrant' and I shall join in); meanwhile government policy is and remains to seek a deal. The other parties have so far opposed the deal on offer from the EU which most Tories have supported.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    To everyone complaining. Parliament has had three years to say what it wants and multiple attempts, including that farcical Letwin process. It has had three chances to avoid no deal.

    Precisely what have MPs achieved during that time?
  • OllyT said:

    Scott_P said:

    I have been a republican all my life until recently when I have grown to respect her decades of service to the Country

    However, on her passing I will rejoin my republican sentiments

    Your finest work...

    https://twitter.com/andreajenkyns/status/1166792547827687426
    It is incredibly stupid of Brexiteers to be implying that the Queen has taking a stand in favour of No Deal.
    Well if you see who it is your post is spot on, she has form
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