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  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tory England:

    ‘Shipping containers used to house homeless children’

    The Children's Commissioner for England says that as well as the 124,000 children officially homeless, a further 90,000 are estimated to be "sofa-surfing".

    Her report tells of families housed in repurposed shipping containers and office blocks, and whole families living in tiny spaces.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/education-49412835

    Even a converted shipping container at least puts a roof over their heads so they are not homeless
    Lol
    Stunning. I suppose the poor souls sleeping rough under a railway arch, or in a hostel, are not homeless because there's a roof over their heads.
    As long as you are in a hostel you are not technically homeless no as you have shelter with a roof and walls, you may not have permanent accommodation but that is a different matter
    Buy a dictionary.

    home
    /həʊm/

    noun
    1. the place where one lives permanently, especially as a member of a family or household.
    "the floods forced many people to flee their homes"
    synonyms: place of residence, accommodation, property, a roof over one's head; More
    2
    .an institution for people needing professional care or supervision.
    "an old people's home"
    synonyms: institution, residential home, nursing home, old people's home, retirement home, convalescent home, rest home, children's home; More


  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Some other nuggets:

    The UK is due to leave the EU on 29 March 2019 [sic]. There are a number of actions which people might take ahead of this date. Have you already or are you likely to... - Stockpile food or medicine


    EuRef Vote:
    Have done/ Likely / Won't / Not Sure
    Leave: 6 / 14 / 63 / 8
    Remain: 5 / 20 / 46 / 19

    So it looks like "Project Fear" is mainly scaring Remainers.

    What does leaving on the 29th March mean ? Is this a poll from March or is it complete rubbish ?
    I think its a typo in the table.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    DougSeal said:

    geoffw said:

    More polls like this could help get a renegotiated WA. At least I hope so.

    Is that a squadron of pigs flying by?
    "One thing that slightly complicates the picture is that our EU friends still clearly think that there is a possibility that parliament will block Brexit. As long as they think there's a possibility that parliament will block Brexit, they're unlikely to be minded to make the concessions that we need, so it's going to take a bit of patience."

    What part of that statement do you disagree with?
    I disagree with "our EU friends still clearly think that there is a possibility that parliament will block Brexit". They speak fluent English and can read our papers. There is no evidence to support your assertion here. Its all "if we are firmer they will budge" bollocks. They accept we are leaving and know if there is no deal then it will hurt us more than them. Or it won't hurt at all - which runs both ways.
    That last is the critical bit. The government says no deal won't be a problem and at the same time that the EU will cave in to avoid no deal.
    I'm not saying that there is no a discrepancy there but I think you overstate it. Boris's position, as I understand it, is not that no deal won't be a problem but that we can cope. He remains clear that he wants a deal, just not the deal that is on the table which May negotiated.

    The issue is whether the EU also regards a deal as optimal, is even capable of renegotiating at this point and is willing to do so to achieve that deal. I think the importance of the second point is being somewhat undersold here, not least with the collapse of the Italian government. How do the mechanics of the EU allow a material change to the deal even if they were so minded?

    If No Deal is manageable for the UK it will be more than manageable for the EU. If it is not manageable for the UK, then the UK will come back for a deal. Either way works for the EU.

    If No Deal exit is manageable for the UK other EU nations might ultimately follow suit
    Yes, all over Europe politicians are looking at the clusterfuck that is Brexit, and thinking "I want a piece of that!"
    Orban and Salvini might be
  • HYUFD said:

    And only 33% want revoke and Remain.

    My first choice is a Deal but I prefer No Deal to Revoke and Remain

    I am sure you do. My first choice is Leave with SU and CU, followed by Revoke and Remain, followed by May's Deal. It all goes to show just how non-binary Leaving the EU actually is and how many people are going to be disappointed come November.

    And by the same token how many people will be partially pleased.
    It will be approximately the same percentage of ladies that are partially pleased to find they are partially pregnant.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    HYUFD said:
    A result like this is not impossible. The recent polling which gives the Brexit Party in the region of 14% is clearly nonsense - the Boris bandwagon in the event of an early election will crush them down to a deposit-losing level.

    I also think assumptions of another "Magic Grandpa" resurrection on Corbyn's behalf are misplaced. Rightly or wrongly Boris is going to have a far more resonant and positive message with the marginals in the North Midlands etc than Theresa May ever had. Labour has no message, and the LibDem message - let's jump back into bed with the EU, while reasonable, is one that it is hard for more than a small minority to get excited about.

    All seems to be going according to the Cummings game-plan.
    Yes, Brexit Party vote moving back to the Tories largely while Remainers still going LD not Labour
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    HS2 is not an investment in the North. If you want to invest in the North then build a proper mainline cross country service linking the major cities of the North.
    Which is what Osborne should have pushed for - link up the Northern Powerhouse.

    If Boris does that, it will be very, very funny to see Osborne's response.
  • fox327fox327 Posts: 370
    edited August 2019
    The Kantar poll looks to me like payback from the voters for the recent rejections of Jeremy Corbyn's efforts to form a temporary alternative government from the Liberal Democrats, CHUK/TIG and some Conservative MPs opposed to a No Deal Brexit.

    The opponents of No Deal look to be divided, disorganised and incompetent, while Boris Johnson is at least cheerfully forging ahead towards No Deal. The opposition sees itself as divided into several different parties and groups within these parties and the Conservative party, but the voters are lumping them all together and are viewing them as lacking in unity and resolve.

    The various parts of the opposition need to hang together or they will all hang separately in a general election victory for Boris Johnson, leading to a five-year No Deal government.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tory England:

    ‘Shipping containers used to house homeless children’

    The Children's Commissioner for England says that as well as the 124,000 children officially homeless, a further 90,000 are estimated to be "sofa-surfing".

    Her report tells of families housed in repurposed shipping containers and office blocks, and whole families living in tiny spaces.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/education-49412835

    Even a converted shipping container at least puts a roof over their heads so they are not homeless
    Lol
    Stunning. I suppose the poor souls sleeping rough under a railway arch, or in a hostel, are not homeless because there's a roof over their heads.
    As long as you are in a hostel you are not technically homeless no as you have shelter, you may not have permanent accommodation but that is a different matter
    A hostel is not a home!
    Nor is a flat on some measures, they are accommodation though
    So you agree a hostel is not a home. Someone staying in a hostel for homeless people is homeless.
  • eek said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    The interesting thing about HS2, which is a bit short of friends, is how much Andy Burnham supports it. He clearly recognises that better connections between London and Manchester would be good for Manchester. It's a problem faced by most of the UK including Edinburgh: do you try to compete with London or do you try and serve it? The latter looks much the safer course.

    From a Dundee perspective there is currently 3 flights a day from Dundee to London City up for tender. There may be no takers but it would certainly help.

    The ticket prices for a lot of regional airports are subsidised by the EU regional airports fund. There must be uncertainty now as to whether this will be replaced by support from the Gvt going forward.
    We had such a service for a while and it was really useful but the airline couldn't make a go of it because of the high landing charges (and charges for being on the ground) at City. It is one of the many reasons that anyone not in the west of London is very anxious we get on with the Heathrow extension.
    Really? Given a choice of airports give me Amsterdam any day..
    Only ever went once but I swear you could have eaten off the floor at Vienna airport.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    HS2 is not an investment in the North. If you want to invest in the North then build a proper mainline cross country service linking the major cities of the North.
    Adonis considers Birmingham to be the North.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tory England:

    ‘Shipping containers used to house homeless children’

    The Children's Commissioner for England says that as well as the 124,000 children officially homeless, a further 90,000 are estimated to be "sofa-surfing".

    Her report tells of families housed in repurposed shipping containers and office blocks, and whole families living in tiny spaces.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/education-49412835

    Even a converted shipping container at least puts a roof over their heads so they are not homeless
    Lol
    Stunning. I suppose the poor souls sleeping rough under a railway arch, or in a hostel, are not homeless because there's a roof over their heads.
    As long as you are in a hostel you are not technically homeless no as you have shelter with a roof and walls, you may not have permanent accommodation but that is a different matter
    Buy a dictionary.

    home
    /həʊm/

    noun
    1. the place where one lives permanently, especially as a member of a family or household.
    "the floods forced many people to flee their homes"
    synonyms: place of residence, accommodation, property, a roof over one's head; More
    2
    .an institution for people needing professional care or supervision.
    "an old people's home"
    synonyms: institution, residential home, nursing home, old people's home, retirement home, convalescent home, rest home, children's home; More


    I have lived in flats on a rented contract basis for a short set period by the contract, it was not a home on your definitiib but nor was I homeless.

    As the above definition states a home includes 'accomodation' 'a roof over one's head' 'the place where one lives'
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,490
    DougSeal said:

    geoffw said:

    More polls like this could help get a renegotiated WA. At least I hope so.

    Is that a squadron of pigs flying by?
    "One thing that slightly complicates the picture is that our EU friends still clearly think that there is a possibility that parliament will block Brexit. As long as they think there's a possibility that parliament will block Brexit, they're unlikely to be minded to make the concessions that we need, so it's going to take a bit of patience."

    What part of that statement do you disagree with?
    The EU CAN'T make any concessions worth having, the best you'd get is a tweak to the wording.
    They have to stick by a member state (Eire) and they would have to get any change past all 27 governments.
    By 31st October? No Chance.

    What part of those statement do you disagree with?
    If the EU is 'standing by Ireland', that means if Ireland was prepared to find a creative solution to avoid a hard border and an indefinite backstop, the EU would accept.
    There is little or no political will in Ireland to drop the Backstop. Yes - no deal will hurt - but backing down in the face of what is perceived to be unreasonable British instranigence will not fly politically. We've seen over and over in recent years how identity beats economics and standing up to the Brits is a major part of the Irish sense of identity.

    There will be no deal. The argument that no-deal will be easy but the EU will budge to avoid no-deal cannot run forever, it has no logic. Either (1) the effects are negligible or (2) the effects are noticeably harmful. If (2) the harm will be (in decreasing levels) (i) damaging to the EU, (ii) devastating to the UK but (iii) catastrophic for those who have led the country down this path, notably the Tory Party. It's the call of those running the show now.
    It's a shame for the people of the ROI that will be affected that its politicians have made this into an issue upon which they have no room for manoeuvre.

    Sadly, the EU will now prevail upon them to erect the border they've been so desperate to avoid.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    There is a legal definition for homeless under the Homelessness Act (2002).
  • HS2 is not an investment in the North. If you want to invest in the North then build a proper mainline cross country service linking the major cities of the North.
    Adonis considers Birmingham to be the North.
    Watford for most of us, Sandy. ;)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited August 2019
    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tory England:

    ‘Shipping containers used to house homeless children’

    The Children's Commissioner for England says that as well as the 124,000 children officially homeless, a further 90,000 are estimated to be "sofa-surfing".

    Her report tells of families housed in repurposed shipping containers and office blocks, and whole families living in tiny spaces.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/education-49412835

    Even a converted shipping container at least puts a roof over their heads so they are not homeless
    Lol
    Stunning. I suppose the poor souls sleeping rough under a railway arch, or in a hostel, are not homeless because there's a roof over their heads.
    As long as you are in a hostel you are not technically homeless no as you have shelter, you may not have permanent accommodation but that is a different matter
    A hostel is not a home!
    Nor is a flat on some measures, they are accommodation though
    So you agree a hostel is not a home. Someone staying in a hostel for homeless people is homeless.
    No they are not for that period as they are in accomodation with a roof over their heads
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    DougSeal said:

    geoffw said:

    More polls like this could help get a renegotiated WA. At least I hope so.

    Is that a squadron of pigs flying by?
    "One thing that slightly complicates the picture is that our EU friends still clearly think that there is a possibility that parliament will block Brexit. As long as they think there's a possibility that parliament will block Brexit, they're unlikely to be minded to make the concessions that we need, so it's going to take a bit of patience."

    What part of that statement do you disagree with?
    The EU CAN'T make any concessions worth having, the best you'd get is a tweak to the wording.
    They have to stick by a member state (Eire) and they would have to get any change past all 27 governments.
    By 31st October? No Chance.

    What part of those statement do you disagree with?
    If the EU is 'standing by Ireland', that means if Ireland was prepared to find a creative solution to avoid a hard border and an indefinite backstop, the EU would accept.
    There is little or no political will in Ireland to drop the Backstop. Yes - no deal will hurt - but backing down in the face of what is perceived to be unreasonable British instranigence will not fly politically. We've seen over and over in recent years how identity beats economics and standing up to the Brits is a major part of the Irish sense of identity.

    There will be no deal. The argument that no-deal will be easy but the EU will budge to avoid no-deal cannot run forever, it has no logic. Either (1) the effects are negligible or (2) the effects are noticeably harmful. If (2) the harm will be (in decreasing levels) (i) damaging to the EU, (ii) devastating to the UK but (iii) catastrophic for those who have led the country down this path, notably the Tory Party. It's the call of those running the show now.
    It's a shame for the people of the ROI that will be affected that its politicians have made this into an issue upon which they have no room for manoeuvre.

    Sadly, the EU will now prevail upon them to erect the border they've been so desperate to avoid.
    The vicious irony of Berlin insisting that a wall is built.....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    fox327 said:

    The Kantar poll looks to me like payback from the voters for the recent rejections of Jeremy Corbyn's efforts to form a temporary alternative government from the Liberal Democrats, CHUK/TIG and some Conservative MPs opposed to a No Deal Brexit.

    The opponents of No Deal look to be divided, disorganised and incompetent, while Boris Johnson is at least cheerfully forging ahead towards No Deal. The opposition sees itself as divided into several different parties and groups within these parties and the Conservative party, but the voters are lumping them all together and are viewing them as lacking in unity and resolve.

    The various parts of the opposition need to hang together or they will all hang separately in a general election victory for Boris Johnson, leading to a five-year No Deal government.

    Rather hoping we might have a thread on that Kantar poll.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    HYUFD said:

    Chuka Shadow Foreign Affairs, Davey Shadow Chancellor and Jardine Shadow Home Affairs round off the big 3
    more jobs than people to fill them , what a joke for a minority party, what do they need to shadow when they are totally irrelevant.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    The interesting thing about HS2, which is a bit short of friends, is how much Andy Burnham supports it. He clearly recognises that better connections between London and Manchester would be good for Manchester. It's a problem faced by most of the UK including Edinburgh: do you try to compete with London or do you try and serve it? The latter looks much the safer course.

    From a Dundee perspective there is currently 3 flights a day from Dundee to London City up for tender. There may be no takers but it would certainly help.

    The ticket prices for a lot of regional airports are subsidised by the EU regional airports fund. There must be uncertainty now as to whether this will be replaced by support from the Gvt going forward.
    We had such a service for a while and it was really useful but the airline couldn't make a go of it because of the high landing charges (and charges for being on the ground) at City. It is one of the many reasons that anyone not in the west of London is very anxious we get on with the Heathrow extension.
    Really? Given a choice of airports give me Amsterdam any day..
    Only ever went once but I swear you could have eaten off the floor at Vienna airport.
    Heston's new dining concept?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    IanB2 said:

    DavidL said:

    The interesting thing about HS2, which is a bit short of friends, is how much Andy Burnham supports it. He clearly recognises that better connections between London and Manchester would be good for Manchester. It's a problem faced by most of the UK including Edinburgh: do you try to compete with London or do you try and serve it? The latter looks much the safer course.

    From a Dundee perspective there is currently 3 flights a day from Dundee to London City up for tender. There may be no takers but it would certainly help.

    The ticket prices for a lot of regional airports are subsidised by the EU regional airports fund. There must be uncertainty now as to whether this will be replaced by support from the Gvt going forward.
    We had such a service for a while and it was really useful but the airline couldn't make a go of it because of the high landing charges (and charges for being on the ground) at City. It is one of the many reasons that anyone not in the west of London is very anxious we get on with the Heathrow extension.
    Really? Given a choice of airports give me Amsterdam any day..
    Only ever went once but I swear you could have eaten off the floor at Vienna airport.
    That might have given a little more flavour to the local cuisine.....
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    NEW THREAD
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tory England:

    ‘Shipping containers used to house homeless children’

    The Children's Commissioner for England says that as well as the 124,000 children officially homeless, a further 90,000 are estimated to be "sofa-surfing".

    Her report tells of families housed in repurposed shipping containers and office blocks, and whole families living in tiny spaces.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/education-49412835

    Even a converted shipping container at least puts a roof over their heads so they are not homeless
    Even by the standards of the Tory Party that is a criminally heartless comment.
    No it isn't, as sleeping in a converted shipping container with a bed and room is better than sleeping on the streets.


    Once again action with the Tories, whinging with Labour
    As you are only going to consider the number of people seeping rough: The record under the Conservatives regardng numbers of people sleeping rough has been a scandal (1979-1997 and 2010-). The Labour government had a specific policy to move rough sleepers into some kind of sheltered accommodation.

  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    I think Johnson telling UK officials not to turn up to EU meetings will play really well to him. It's being presented as childish and petulant in the Guardian/BBC, but I think it's a good contrast to the Brexit Party MEPs drawing their large salaries and expenses.

    It's why I suggested May should have campaigned on Tory MEPs not taking up their seats in Brussels/Strasbourg.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tory England:

    ‘Shipping containers used to house homeless children’

    The Children's Commissioner for England says that as well as the 124,000 children officially homeless, a further 90,000 are estimated to be "sofa-surfing".

    Her report tells of families housed in repurposed shipping containers and office blocks, and whole families living in tiny spaces.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/education-49412835

    Even a converted shipping container at least puts a roof over their heads so they are not homeless
    Even by the standards of the Tory Party that is a criminally heartless comment.
    No it isn't, as sleeping in a converted shipping container with a bed and room is better than sleeping on the streets.


    Once again action with the Tories, whinging with Labour
    As you are only going to consider the number of people seeping rough: The record under the Conservatives regardng numbers of people sleeping rough has been a scandal (1979-1997 and 2010-). The Labour government had a specific policy to move rough sleepers into some kind of sheltered accommodation.

    Which the current Tory government is clearly doing now anyway
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,815
    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tory England:

    ‘Shipping containers used to house homeless children’

    The Children's Commissioner for England says that as well as the 124,000 children officially homeless, a further 90,000 are estimated to be "sofa-surfing".

    Her report tells of families housed in repurposed shipping containers and office blocks, and whole families living in tiny spaces.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/education-49412835

    Even a converted shipping container at least puts a roof over their heads so they are not homeless
    Lol
    Stunning. I suppose the poor souls sleeping rough under a railway arch, or in a hostel, are not homeless because there's a roof over their heads.
    As long as you are in a hostel you are not technically homeless no as you have shelter, you may not have permanent accommodation but that is a different matter
    A hostel is not a home!
    Nor is a flat on some measures, they are accommodation though
    So you agree a hostel is not a home. Someone staying in a hostel for homeless people is homeless.
    No they are not for that period as they are in accomodation with a roof over their heads
    Where would you draw the line then. If I live in a hotel room is that my home? What about a tent; that has a roof?
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    DougSeal said:

    geoffw said:

    More polls like this could help get a renegotiated WA. At least I hope so.

    Is that a squadron of pigs flying by?
    "One thing that slightly complicates the picture is that our EU friends still clearly think that there is a possibility that parliament will block Brexit. As long as they think there's a possibility that parliament will block Brexit, they're unlikely to be minded to make the concessions that we need, so it's going to take a bit of patience."

    What part of that statement do you disagree with?
    I dwhich runs both ways.
    That last is the critical bit. The government says no deal won't be a problem and at the same time that the EU will cave in to avoid no deal.
    I'm not saying that there is no a discrepancy there but I think you overstate it. Boris's position, as I understand it, is not that no deal won't be a problem but that we can cope. He remains clear that he wants a deal, just not the deal that is on the table which May negotiated.

    The issue is whether the EU also regards a deal as optimal, is even capable of renegotiating at this point and is willing to do so to achieve that deal. I think the importance of the second point is being somewhat undersold here, not least with the collapse of the Italian government. How do the mechanics of the EU allow a material change to the deal even if they were so minded?

    If No Deal is manageable for the UK it will be more than manageable for the EU. If it is not manageable for the UK, then the UK will come back for a deal. Either way works for the EU.

    If No Deal exit is manageable for the UK other EU nations might ultimately follow suit

    I doubt it. Even if it is manageable, UK citizens and businesses will still be far less free than they are now, while the UK as a whole will be poorer and entirely dependent on the goodwill of others in term sof international trade.

    In international trade we can only currently agree what 26 other EU nations agree

    Absolutely. But come No Deal Brexit we will lose our ability to influence EU trade deals while being entirely dependent on the goodwill of others to keep our international trade flowing.

  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tory England:

    ‘Shipping containers used to house homeless children’

    The Children's Commissioner for England says that as well as the 124,000 children officially homeless, a further 90,000 are estimated to be "sofa-surfing".

    Her report tells of families housed in repurposed shipping containers and office blocks, and whole families living in tiny spaces.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/education-49412835

    Even a converted shipping container at least puts a roof over their heads so they are not homeless
    Lol
    Stunning. I suppose the poor souls sleeping rough under a railway arch, or in a hostel, are not homeless because there's a roof over their heads.
    As long as you are in a hostel you are not technically homeless no as you have shelter with a roof and walls, you may not have permanent accommodation but that is a different matter
    Buy a dictionary.

    home
    /həʊm/

    noun
    1. the place where one lives permanently, especially as a member of a family or household.
    "the floods forced many people to flee their homes"
    synonyms: place of residence, accommodation, property, a roof over one's head; More
    2
    .an institution for people needing professional care or supervision.
    "an old people's home"
    synonyms: institution, residential home, nursing home, old people's home, retirement home, convalescent home, rest home, children's home; More


    Did you miss the bit in that definition that said "synonyms: ... roof over one's head"? Cos somehow even though he's obviously wrong, now I'm not sure.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tory England:

    ‘Shipping containers used to house homeless children’

    The Children's Commissioner for England says that as well as the 124,000 children officially homeless, a further 90,000 are estimated to be "sofa-surfing".

    Her report tells of families housed in repurposed shipping containers and office blocks, and whole families living in tiny spaces.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/education-49412835

    Even a converted shipping container at least puts a roof over their heads so they are not homeless
    Lol
    Stunning. I suppose the poor souls sleeping rough under a railway arch, or in a hostel, are not homeless because there's a roof over their heads.
    As long as you are in a hostel you are not technically homeless no as you have shelter, you may not have permanent accommodation but that is a different matter
    A hostel is not a home!
    Nor is a flat on some measures, they are accommodation though
    So you agree a hostel is not a home. Someone staying in a hostel for homeless people is homeless.
    No they are not for that period as they are in accomodation with a roof over their heads
    Where would you draw the line then. If I live in a hotel room is that my home? What about a tent; that has a roof?
    Yes a hotel room can be a home, I had an elderly relative who lived in a hotel room for 10 years, she was not homeless.

    A tent maybe not but a hostel or converted shipping container is not a tent but has a roof and walls
  • HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    TOPPING said:

    DougSeal said:

    geoffw said:

    More polls like this could help get a renegotiated WA. At least I hope so.

    Is that a squadron of pigs flying by?
    "One thing that slightly complicates the picture is that our EU friends still clearly think that there is a possibility that parliament will block Brexit. As long as they think there's a possibility that parliament will block Brexit, they're unlikely to be minded to make the concessions that we need, so it's going to take a bit of patience."

    What part of that statement do you disagree with?
    I disagree with "our EU friends still clearly think that there is a possibility that parliament will block Brexit". They speak fluent English and can read our papers. There is no evidence to support your assertion here. Its all "if we are firmer they will budge" bollocks. They accept we are leaving and know if there is no deal then it will hurt us more than them. Or it won't hurt at all - which runs both ways.
    That last is the critical bit. The government says no deal won't be a problem and at the same time that the EU will cave in to avoid no deal.
    I'm not saying that there is no a discrepancy there but I think you overstate it. Boris's position, as I understand it, is not that no deal won't be a problem but that we can cope. He remains clear that he wants a deal, just not the deal that is on the table which May negotiated.

    The issue is whether the EU also regards a deal as optimal, is even capable of renegotiating at this point and is willing to do so to achieve that deal. I think the importance of the second point is being somewhat undersold here, not least with the collapse of the Italian government. How do the mechanics of the EU allow a material change to the deal even if they were so minded?

    If No Deal is manageable for the UK it will be more than manageable for the EU. If it is not manageable for the UK, then the UK will come back for a deal. Either way works for the EU.

    If No Deal exit is manageable for the UK other EU nations might ultimately follow suit
    Yes, all over Europe politicians are looking at the clusterfuck that is Brexit, and thinking "I want a piece of that!"
    Orban and Salvini might be

    Salvini wants to win elections, not lose them. Orban knows that he only stays in power for as long as he delivers for Hungarians economically.

  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tory England:

    ‘Shipping containers used to house homeless children’

    The Children's Commissioner for England says that as well as the 124,000 children officially homeless, a further 90,000 are estimated to be "sofa-surfing".

    Her report tells of families housed in repurposed shipping containers and office blocks, and whole families living in tiny spaces.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/education-49412835

    Even a converted shipping container at least puts a roof over their heads so they are not homeless
    Lol
    Stunning. I suppose the poor souls sleeping rough under a railway arch, or in a hostel, are not homeless because there's a roof over their heads.
    As long as you are in a hostel you are not technically homeless no as you have shelter with a roof and walls, you may not have permanent accommodation but that is a different matter
    Buy a dictionary.

    home
    /həʊm/

    noun
    1. the place where one lives permanently, especially as a member of a family or household.
    "the floods forced many people to flee their homes"
    synonyms: place of residence, accommodation, property, a roof over one's head; More
    2
    .an institution for people needing professional care or supervision.
    "an old people's home"
    synonyms: institution, residential home, nursing home, old people's home, retirement home, convalescent home, rest home, children's home; More


    I have lived in flats on a rented contract basis for a short set period by the contract, it was not a home on your definitiib but nor was I homeless.

    As the above definition states a home includes 'accomodation' 'a roof over one's head' 'the place where one lives'
    Not my definitition. It says that "accomodation" and a "roof over one's head" are synonyms. A synonym is a word or phrase that means exactly or nearly the same as another word or phrase in the same language. Words are usually only synonymous in one particular sense - in this sense (that of permanent accomodation) temporary accomodation in a hostel is not a "home".
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    HS2 is not an investment in the North. If you want to invest in the North then build a proper mainline cross country service linking the major cities of the North.
    Which is what Osborne should have pushed for - link up the Northern Powerhouse.

    If Boris does that, it will be very, very funny to see Osborne's response.
    Don't hold your breath waiting on that one.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,490
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tory England:

    ‘Shipping containers used to house homeless children’

    The Children's Commissioner for England says that as well as the 124,000 children officially homeless, a further 90,000 are estimated to be "sofa-surfing".

    Her report tells of families housed in repurposed shipping containers and office blocks, and whole families living in tiny spaces.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/education-49412835

    Even a converted shipping container at least puts a roof over their heads so they are not homeless
    Even by the standards of the Tory Party that is a criminally heartless comment.
    How exactly is it heartless? Converted shipping containers for offices and homes are all the buzz. Professionally converting containers is an inventive solution for councils who have to provide a lot of temporary housing for people, avoiding putting them in bed and breakfast or similar shared accommodation that mixes families and people with mental health or drug issues.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tory England:

    ‘Shipping containers used to house homeless children’

    The Children's Commissioner for England says that as well as the 124,000 children officially homeless, a further 90,000 are estimated to be "sofa-surfing".

    Her report tells of families housed in repurposed shipping containers and office blocks, and whole families living in tiny spaces.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/education-49412835

    Even a converted shipping container at least puts a roof over their heads so they are not homeless
    Lol
    Stunning. I suppose the poor souls sleeping rough under a railway arch, or in a hostel, are not homeless because there's a roof over their heads.
    As long as you are in a hostel you are not technically homeless no as you have shelter with a roof and walls, you may not have permanent accommodation but that is a different matter
    Buy a dictionary.

    home
    /həʊm/

    noun
    1. the place where one lives permanently, especially as a member of a family or household.
    "the floods forced many people to flee their homes"
    synonyms: place of residence, accommodation, property, a roof over one's head; More
    2
    .an institution for people needing professional care or supervision.
    "an old people's home"
    synonyms: institution, residential home, nursing home, old people's home, retirement home, convalescent home, rest home, children's home; More


    I have lived in flats on a rented contract basis for a short set period by the contract, it was not a home on your definitiib but nor was I homeless.

    As the above definition states a home includes 'accomodation' 'a roof over one's head' 'the place where one lives'
    Not my definitition. It says that "accomodation" and a "roof over one's head" are synonyms. A synonym is a word or phrase that means exactly or nearly the same as another word or phrase in the same language. Words are usually only synonymous in one particular sense - in this sense (that of permanent accomodation) temporary accomodation in a hostel is not a "home".
    So it can mean exactly the same thing, thanks for confirming
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tory England:

    ‘Shipping containers used to house homeless children’

    The Children's Commissioner for England says that as well as the 124,000 children officially homeless, a further 90,000 are estimated to be "sofa-surfing".

    Her report tells of families housed in repurposed shipping containers and office blocks, and whole families living in tiny spaces.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/education-49412835

    Even a converted shipping container at least puts a roof over their heads so they are not homeless
    Even by the standards of the Tory Party that is a criminally heartless comment.
    How exactly is it heartless? Converted shipping containers for offices and homes are all the buzz. Professionally converting containers is an inventive solution for councils who have to provide a lot of temporary housing for people, avoiding putting them in bed and breakfast or similar shared accommodation that mixes families and people with mental health or drug issues.
    Exactly
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,815
    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tory England:

    ‘Shipping containers used to house homeless children’

    The Children's Commissioner for England says that as well as the 124,000 children officially homeless, a further 90,000 are estimated to be "sofa-surfing".

    Her report tells of families housed in repurposed shipping containers and office blocks, and whole families living in tiny spaces.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/education-49412835

    Even a converted shipping container at least puts a roof over their heads so they are not homeless
    Lol
    Stunning. I suppose the poor souls sleeping rough under a railway arch, or in a hostel, are not homeless because there's a roof over their heads.
    As long as you are in a hostel you are not technically homeless no as you have shelter, you may not have permanent accommodation but that is a different matter
    A hostel is not a home!
    Nor is a flat on some measures, they are accommodation though
    So you agree a hostel is not a home. Someone staying in a hostel for homeless people is homeless.
    No they are not for that period as they are in accomodation with a roof over their heads
    Where would you draw the line then. If I live in a hotel room is that my home? What about a tent; that has a roof?
    Yes a hotel room can be a home, I had an elderly relative who lived in a hotel room for 10 years, she was not homeless.

    A tent maybe not but a hostel or converted shipping container is not a tent but has a roof and walls
    I think you have hit the nail on the head. homelessness is determined by circumstances not the accommodation. If I choose to live in a hotel on a permanent basis I am not homeless. If I am put up there on a temporary basis I am. It is the circumstances that count.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited August 2019
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    eristdoof said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anorak said:

    HYUFD said:

    Tory England:

    ‘Shipping containers used to house homeless children’

    The Children's Commissioner for England says that as well as the 124,000 children officially homeless, a further 90,000 are estimated to be "sofa-surfing".

    Her report tells of families housed in repurposed shipping containers and office blocks, and whole families living in tiny spaces.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/education-49412835

    Even a converted shipping container at least puts a roof over their heads so they are not homeless
    Lol
    Stunning. I suppose the poor souls sleeping rough under a railway arch, or in a hostel, are not homeless because there's a roof over their heads.
    As long as you are in a hostel you are not technically homeless no as you have shelter, you may not have permanent accommodation but that is a different matter
    A hostel is not a home!
    Nor is a flat on some measures, they are accommodation though
    So you agree a hostel is not a home. Someone staying in a hostel for homeless people is homeless.
    No they are not for that period as they are in accomodation with a roof over their heads
    Where would you draw the line then. If I live in a hotel room is that my home? What about a tent; that has a roof?
    Yes a hotel room can be a home, I had an elderly relative who lived in a hotel room for 10 years, she was not homeless.

    A tent maybe not but a hostel or converted shipping container is not a tent but has a roof and walls
    I think you have hit the nail on the head. homelessness is determined by circumstances not the accommodation. If I choose to live in a hotel on a permanent basis I am not homeless. If I am put up there on a temporary basis I am. It is the circumstances that count.
    No as it is those who are without roofs over their heads who society are most obliged to help and are most in need, the fact you would prefer to be in better accomodation does not change the fact you have accomodation
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    New thread!
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038

    HS2 is not an investment in the North. If you want to invest in the North then build a proper mainline cross country service linking the major cities of the North.
    Adonis considers Birmingham to be the North.
    It is just about the north, in the sense that some words are spoken with a short 'a' although 'class' also comes into it.

    Anyway, I've been mulling over some common abbreviations here and I conclude that

    PB = perpetual Brexit
    HYUFD = here's your useless f***ing data.

    Plea to OGH ... I'm continuing to find the site politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com a pain. With a quite 'normal' Lenovo laptop, Windows 7 and Firefox, after failing for 2 months the comments still aren't there on politicalbetting.com which I used for the previous 8-9 years.

    I might consider another browser but I'm otherwise very happy with Firefox. It works with everything else on the internet including Twitter.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,815

    HS2 is not an investment in the North. If you want to invest in the North then build a proper mainline cross country service linking the major cities of the North.
    Adonis considers Birmingham to be the North.
    It is just about the north, in the sense that some words are spoken with a short 'a' although 'class' also comes into it.

    Anyway, I've been mulling over some common abbreviations here and I conclude that

    PB = perpetual Brexit
    HYUFD = here's your useless f***ing data.

    Plea to OGH ... I'm continuing to find the site politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com a pain. With a quite 'normal' Lenovo laptop, Windows 7 and Firefox, after failing for 2 months the comments still aren't there on politicalbetting.com which I used for the previous 8-9 years.

    I might consider another browser but I'm otherwise very happy with Firefox. It works with everything else on the internet including Twitter.
    Me too. Exactly the same problem. I have 2 laptops next to one another just so I can continue.
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019
    nunuone said:


    Even most Londers want the government to invest more in northern rail improvements.

    Especially most Londoners. We're quite lefty / pro public transport down here.

    The Tories do not get to claim credit though.

    It really feels like this country lives in a fog when it comes to the past, or the rest of the world for that matter.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    I don't think the UK is as bothered as Ireland by a hard border.

    A plausible scenario is:

    Hard border = resurgence of terrorist activity = need for British troops to protect border posts and officials.

    At the height of Op Banner there were 40,000-odd forces on the ground sent by the UK government (HMF, plus UDR plus RUC).

    Those days are gone. The army is now around 80,000 strong so to replicate the Op Banner manning would take the entire British army. Leaving no wiggle room for quelling any troublesome middle Eastern dictators or a pesky Russia for example.

    We simply could not cope.
    In fact it's worse than that because as there is no longer a UDR the British army would need to make up those numbers. So with preparing to go, being there, and leave after going there aren't even the numbers to police a hard border if the UK wanted the army to do that and nothing else at all.
    Your big assumption is we will have border posts and officials
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    CatMan said:
    Isn’t holiday polling fun 😂
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    My quick take on the Kantar poll:
    1. The Tory vote share is way higher than it has been in any other poll. However ...
    2. The broad No Deal/anti-No Deal bloc sizes are in line with all other polls (slightly higher for No Deal, but only slightly). So ...
    3. It is a perfectly credible poll.

    Agreed, but the Brexit number looks ridiculous when comparing with historic UKIP performance.
    I think they don’t prompt on the first page for BXP or Green
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    tlg86 said:

    More in that Kantar poll:

    Which of the following scenarios do you favour most?
    Leave No Deal: 23
    Leave TM Deal: 9
    Leave but stay in SM/CU: 13
    Remain/Revoke A50: 33
    DK: 22

    Should the final deal be put to public vote:
    Yes: 52
    No: 29
    DK: 19

    How likely Leave by Oct 31?
    Net Likely: 46
    Net Unlikely: 35
    DK: 19

    That “public vote” split is an eye opener.
    Does it say what the alternative to the deal is?
    Remain/Revoke 33
    EFTA+/May’s Deal 22
    No Deal 23

    As we see, Leaving with a Deal is probably the median opinion, but Leaving with a Deal is also the least favourite option.
    Shame all the Remainers voted against it then. The ERG appear to be getting what they want (as things stand)
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    dixiedean said:

    My parents live in Wigan. Ignoring price, how to they get to Glasgow, Birmingham or London quickly and efficiently? Train every time.
    To Liverpool, Leeds or Hull? Car no question. It is why the M62 is creaking to breaking point. A cross Pennine fast rail link is decades overdue.

    Isn’t it granite though, so tough to go through
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    Charles said:

    dixiedean said:

    My parents live in Wigan. Ignoring price, how to they get to Glasgow, Birmingham or London quickly and efficiently? Train every time.
    To Liverpool, Leeds or Hull? Car no question. It is why the M62 is creaking to breaking point. A cross Pennine fast rail link is decades overdue.

    Isn’t it granite though, so tough to go through
    Sandstone & limestone mainly. Still tough..
This discussion has been closed.