If Ken Clarke became Prime Minister I would be so happy.
The man has more talent and integrity in his little toe than the entire cabinet and shadow cabinet combined.
I'm not sure Ken Clarke wasn't a main contributor to Labour's 1997 landslide after he'd moved from department to department alienating Conservative supporters like the police and doctors. You might still be right though.
Are our comments regarding Swinson's response to Jezza's offer totally along party lines? Or do we have any Labour posters who think she got it right and/or LibDems who think she judged in badly?
Is there a guarantee that Swinson can herself win in a GE against a revived SNP ?
Point to me a main party leader who has lost their seat at a general election. it doesn't happen. And in terms of revival the LDs have revived much more than the SNP in Scotland and I'd expect gains there.
Go look at how Gordon Brown did in Scotland at GE2010 - this was totally against the national trend.
I am also not aware of any party leader who had such a small majority. The next GE in Scotland will not just be about Brexit - it will also be about independence.
Are our comments regarding Swinson's response to Jezza's offer totally along party lines? Or do we have any Labour posters who think she got it right and/or LibDems who think she judged in badly?
If Ken Clarke became Prime Minister I would be so happy.
The man has more talent and integrity in his little toe than the entire cabinet and shadow cabinet combined.
But sadly it has yet to spread to the rest of his body.
Let us have a look at Clarke's CV.
Chairman of CUCA, barrister, QC, nearly 30 years on the front bench/government, inter alia, Chancellor of the Exchequer, Home Secretary, Lord Chancellor/Justice Secretary, Health Secretary, Education Secretary, and generally Thatcher's go to man when there was a problem needing sorting.
There's also his successful business career.
Just imagine what he could have achieved if his talent and integrity had spread to the rest of his body.
Is there a guarantee that Swinson can herself win in a GE against a revived SNP ?
Point to me a main party leader who has lost their seat at a general election. it doesn't happen. And in terms of revival the LDs have revived much more than the SNP in Scotland and I'd expect gains there.
Go look at how Gordon Brown did in Scotland at GE2010 - this was totally against the national trend.
I am also not aware of any party leader who had such a small majority. The next GE in Scotland will not just be about Brexit - it will also be about independence.
And currently the Scottish polls are showing a significant swing from the SNP to the Lib Dems in Scotland.
"When Jeremy Corbyn wrote a letter putting himself forward as a transitional prime minister purely to block no deal, extend article 50 and call an election, Lib Dem leader Jo Swinson could have welcomed the move as constructive, as the SNP, Greens, Plaid Cymru have done, with several Tory backbenchers prepared to talk, too. Instead, Swinson revealed that while the Lib Dems had been willing to prop David Cameron up for five years, implementing massive cuts and trebling tuition fees, she’s not prepared to countenance supporting Corbyn for five weeks solely to stop a disorderly exit from the EU.
The key is the word solely
Exactly. She would countenance a hard Brexit but not a Corbyn led 5 week government whose remit will have agreed beforehand.
There is another practical problem. About 50 Labour MPs will not countenance any other interim PM.
So Johnson wins.
And when the five weeks are up...?
He can be VoNCed too !
In favour of who?
No-one. We have a GE and the voters decide if they want to keep Jezza, switch to Bozo's replacement (Rory?) or go full-on Farage.
Why would Johnson be replaced? Even if it panned out as planned the election would probably lead to a Conservative majority, and we just Brexit in six month’s instead. Or maybe we’d have a hung Parliament where Corbyn gets to stay in power by default because the Commons can’t produce the numbers to remove him. So much for a “caretaker” Government.
The lib dem agent got this badly wrong last time. Won't happen again. Writing on the wall for Corbym.
I doubt that Swinson has helped LibDem prospects with her pronouncements this week. She has provided Labour with ammunition to return fire.
Wishful thinking. LAB attacks on Swinson help with tsctical voting
I suspect the wishful thinking lies with you - certainly as far as Labour tactical votes are concerned. She has given new life to 'the Tories' Little Helpers' theme. As Owen Jones points out in his Guardian article, here is someone perfectly happy to prop up Cameron for 5 years yet not prepared to put Corbyn in office for 5 weeks. So much for her committment to doing everything to avoid No Deal.
The lib dem agent got this badly wrong last time. Won't happen again. Writing on the wall for Corbym.
I doubt that Swinson has helped LibDem prospects with her pronouncements this week. She has provided Labour with ammunition to return fire.
Wishful thinking. LAB attacks on Swinson help with tsctical voting
I suspect the wishful thinking lies with you - certainly as far as Labour tactical votes are concerned. She has given new life to 'the Tories' Little Helpers' theme. As Owen Jones points out in his Guardian article, here is someone perfectly happy to prop up Cameron for 5 years yet not prepared to put Corbyn in office for 5 weeks. So much for her committment to doing everything to avoid No Deal.
This is PB. Please point to polling to support your contention.
I have tactically voted LAB at the last two elections in my tight LAB/CON marginal. I won't next time becaise of the stench of antisemitism that comes from your leader. He's beyond the pale.
We have yet to see polling since this story broke. I await it with interest - but I have encountered three people - none of whom are well disposed towards Corbyn - who are not impressed by Swinson's response to his overtures. I really don't think it is difficult to expect this affair to give legs to Labour's 'Tories' Little Helpers' message.
Are our comments regarding Swinson's response to Jezza's offer totally along party lines? Or do we have any Labour posters who think she got it right and/or LibDems who think she judged in badly?
My particular problem with Swinson's response was the manner she said it. Using the word "nonsense" was not smart. No one else said anything close to that. Not even the the newest LD , Wollaston. Not even Tories like Grieve. So if Corbyn cannot bring a majority , who can ? [ I have never voted for Corbyn in any election, by the way ! ]. Do you think people like Rebecca Long Name, Ian Lavery etc. will vote for anyone else ?
Is there a guarantee that Swinson can herself win in a GE against a revived SNP ?
Point to me a main party leader who has lost their seat at a general election. it doesn't happen. And in terms of revival the LDs have revived much more than the SNP in Scotland and I'd expect gains there.
Go look at how Gordon Brown did in Scotland at GE2010 - this was totally against the national trend.
I am also not aware of any party leader who had such a small majority. The next GE in Scotland will not just be about Brexit - it will also be about independence.
Swinson's majority in East Dunbartonshire is almost exactly the same as Johnson's majority in Uxbridge. Please do a bit of basic research before making assertions. Wikipedia is quite a good source
If Ken Clarke became Prime Minister I would be so happy.
The man has more talent and integrity in his little toe than the entire cabinet and shadow cabinet combined.
But sadly it has yet to spread to the rest of his body.
Let us have a look at Clarke's CV.
Chairman of CUCA, barrister, QC, nearly 30 years on the front bench/government, inter alia, Chancellor of the Exchequer, Home Secretary, Lord Chancellor/Justice Secretary, Health Secretary, Education Secretary, and generally Thatcher's go to man when there was a problem needing sorting.
There's also his successful business career.
[Sunil utters a cough that sounds suspiciously like "British American Tobacco".]
Is there a guarantee that Swinson can herself win in a GE against a revived SNP ?
Point to me a main party leader who has lost their seat at a general election. it doesn't happen. And in terms of revival the LDs have revived much more than the SNP in Scotland and I'd expect gains there.
Go look at how Gordon Brown did in Scotland at GE2010 - this was totally against the national trend.
Gwynfor Evans lost Carmathen in 1979. Peter Robinson lost his Belfast seat in 2010. Archibald Sinclair lost Caithness & Sutherland in 1945. Jeremy Thorpe very nearly lost North Devon in 1970. Ted Heath only narrowly held Bexley in 1966 too.
If Ken Clarke became Prime Minister I would be so happy.
The man has more talent and integrity in his little toe than the entire cabinet and shadow cabinet combined.
But sadly it has yet to spread to the rest of his body.
Let us have a look at Clarke's CV.
Chairman of CUCA, barrister, QC, nearly 30 years on the front bench/government, inter alia, Chancellor of the Exchequer, Home Secretary, Lord Chancellor/Justice Secretary, Health Secretary, Education Secretary, and generally Thatcher's go to man when there was a problem needing sorting.
There's also his successful business career.
[Sunil utters a cough that sounds suspiciously like "British American Tobacco".]
With a cough like that I suggest you cut out the fags!
Is there a guarantee that Swinson can herself win in a GE against a revived SNP ?
Point to me a main party leader who has lost their seat at a general election. it doesn't happen. And in terms of revival the LDs have revived much more than the SNP in Scotland and I'd expect gains there.
Go look at how Gordon Brown did in Scotland at GE2010 - this was totally against the national trend.
I am also not aware of any party leader who had such a small majority. The next GE in Scotland will not just be about Brexit - it will also be about independence.
Swinson's majority in East Dunbartonshire is almost exactly the same as Johnson's majority in Uxbridge. Please do a bit of basic research before making assertions. Wikipedia is quite a good source
The only reason he has the job right now is Brexiteers think he is a "winner"
Winners don't get VoNCed...
An election winner. An election where the LibDems have put Corbyn in power and delayed Brexit is about his dream General Election scenario. He wouldn’t even have to take the country through no deal after it! Or not immediately.
Is there a guarantee that Swinson can herself win in a GE against a revived SNP ?
Point to me a main party leader who has lost their seat at a general election. it doesn't happen. And in terms of revival the LDs have revived much more than the SNP in Scotland and I'd expect gains there.
Go look at how Gordon Brown did in Scotland at GE2010 - this was totally against the national trend.
I am also not aware of any party leader who had such a small majority. The next GE in Scotland will not just be about Brexit - it will also be about independence.
Swinson's majority in East Dunbartonshire is almost exactly the same as Johnson's majority in Uxbridge. Please do a bit of basic research before making assertions. Wikipedia is quite a good source
I didn't say Johnson was not in trouble. Particularly, in London. The difference is he is the PM just as Gordon Brown was in 2010.
If Ken Clarke became Prime Minister I would be so happy.
The man has more talent and integrity in his little toe than the entire cabinet and shadow cabinet combined.
But sadly it has yet to spread to the rest of his body.
Let us have a look at Clarke's CV.
Chairman of CUCA, barrister, QC, nearly 30 years on the front bench/government, inter alia, Chancellor of the Exchequer, Home Secretary, Lord Chancellor/Justice Secretary, Health Secretary, Education Secretary, and generally Thatcher's go to man when there was a problem needing sorting.
There's also his successful business career.
[Sunil utters a cough that sounds suspiciously like "British American Tobacco".]
With a cough like that I suggest you cut out the fags!
Is there a guarantee that Swinson can herself win in a GE against a revived SNP ?
Point to me a main party leader who has lost their seat at a general election. it doesn't happen. And in terms of revival the LDs have revived much more than the SNP in Scotland and I'd expect gains there.
Go look at how Gordon Brown did in Scotland at GE2010 - this was totally against the national trend.
I am also not aware of any party leader who had such a small majority. The next GE in Scotland will not just be about Brexit - it will also be about independence.
And currently the Scottish polls are showing a significant swing from the SNP to the Lib Dems in Scotland.
I am not aware of any recent Scotland Voting Intention polls. Crossbreaks are unreliable and very variable - some show the LDs doing OK whist others have their vote share in single figures.
"When Jeremy Corbyn wrote a letter putting himself forward as a transitional prime minister purely to block no deal, extend article 50 and call an election, Lib Dem leader Jo Swinson could have welcomed the move as constructive, as the SNP, Greens, Plaid Cymru have done, with several Tory backbenchers prepared to talk, too. Instead, Swinson revealed that while the Lib Dems had been willing to prop David Cameron up for five years, implementing massive cuts and trebling tuition fees, she’s not prepared to countenance supporting Corbyn for five weeks solely to stop a disorderly exit from the EU.
The key is the word solely
Exactly. She would countenance a hard Brexit but not a Corbyn led 5 week government whose remit will have agreed beforehand.
There is another practical problem. About 50 Labour MPs will not countenance any other interim PM.
So Johnson wins.
And when the five weeks are up...?
He can be VoNCed too !
In favour of who?
No-one. We have a GE and the voters decide if they want to keep Jezza, switch to Bozo's replacement (Rory?) or go full-on Farage.
Why would Johnson be replaced? Even if it panned out as planned the election would probably lead to a Conservative majority, and we just Brexit in six month’s instead. Or maybe we’d have a hung Parliament where Corbyn gets to stay in power by default because the Commons can’t produce the numbers to remove him. So much for a “caretaker” Government.
I'm assuming that Bozo would resign as Tory leader if he lost a VONC and Jezza was installed as PM. When you say 'Do or Die' and you don't 'Do' there is only one alternative.
Is there a guarantee that Swinson can herself win in a GE against a revived SNP ?
Point to me a main party leader who has lost their seat at a general election. it doesn't happen. And in terms of revival the LDs have revived much more than the SNP in Scotland and I'd expect gains there.
Go look at how Gordon Brown did in Scotland at GE2010 - this was totally against the national trend.
I am also not aware of any party leader who had such a small majority. The next GE in Scotland will not just be about Brexit - it will also be about independence.
And currently the Scottish polls are showing a significant swing from the SNP to the Lib Dems in Scotland.
I am not aware of any recent Scotland Voting Intention polls. Crossbreaks are unreliable and very variable - some show the LDs doing OK whist others have their vote share in single figures.
There was the Ashcroft Scottish poll a week or so ago
"When Jeremy Corbyn wrote a letter putting himself forward as a transitional prime minister purely to block no deal, extend article 50 and call an election, Lib Dem leader Jo Swinson could have welcomed the move as constructive, as the SNP, Greens, Plaid Cymru have done, with several Tory backbenchers prepared to talk, too. Instead, Swinson revealed that while the Lib Dems had been willing to prop David Cameron up for five years, implementing massive cuts and trebling tuition fees, she’s not prepared to countenance supporting Corbyn for five weeks solely to stop a disorderly exit from the EU.
The key is the word solely
Exactly. She would countenance a hard Brexit but not a Corbyn led 5 week government whose remit will have agreed beforehand.
There is another practical problem. About 50 Labour MPs will not countenance any other interim PM.
So Johnson wins.
And when the five weeks are up...?
He can be VoNCed too !
In favour of who?
No-one. We have a GE and the voters decide if they want to keep Jezza, switch to Bozo's replacement (Rory?) or go full-on Farage.
Why would Johnson be replaced? Even if it panned out as planned the election would probably lead to a Conservative majority, and we just Brexit in six month’s instead. Or maybe we’d have a hung Parliament where Corbyn gets to stay in power by default because the Commons can’t produce the numbers to remove him. So much for a “caretaker” Government.
I'm assuming that Bozo would resign as Tory leader if he lost a VONC and Jezza was installed as PM. When you say 'Do or Die' and you don't 'Do' there is only one alternative.
You really believe that? Where has there been any indication that that would happen? He has no majority and can’t control what Parliament does.
Is there a guarantee that Swinson can herself win in a GE against a revived SNP ?
Point to me a main party leader who has lost their seat at a general election. it doesn't happen. And in terms of revival the LDs have revived much more than the SNP in Scotland and I'd expect gains there.
Go look at how Gordon Brown did in Scotland at GE2010 - this was totally against the national trend.
I am also not aware of any party leader who had such a small majority. The next GE in Scotland will not just be about Brexit - it will also be about independence.
And currently the Scottish polls are showing a significant swing from the SNP to the Lib Dems in Scotland.
I am not aware of any recent Scotland Voting Intention polls. Crossbreaks are unreliable and very variable - some show the LDs doing OK whist others have their vote share in single figures.
There was the Ashcroft Scottish poll a week or so ago
I was not aware that included Voting Intention data. Happy to look at it.
"When Jeremy Corbyn wrote a letter putting himself forward as a transitional prime minister purely to block no deal, extend article 50 and call an election, Lib Dem leader Jo Swinson could have welcomed the move as constructive, as the SNP, Greens, Plaid Cymru have done, with several Tory backbenchers prepared to talk, too. Instead, Swinson revealed that while the Lib Dems had been willing to prop David Cameron up for five years, implementing massive cuts and trebling tuition fees, she’s not prepared to countenance supporting Corbyn for five weeks solely to stop a disorderly exit from the EU.
The key is the word solely
Exactly. She would countenance a hard Brexit but not a Corbyn led 5 week government whose remit will have agreed beforehand.
There is another practical problem. About 50 Labour MPs will not countenance any other interim PM.
So Johnson wins.
And when the five weeks are up...?
He can be VoNCed too !
In favour of who?
No-one. We have a GE and the voters decide if they want to keep Jezza, switch to Bozo's replacement (Rory?) or go full-on Farage.
Why would Johnson be replaced? Even if it panned out as planned the election would probably lead to a Conservative majority, and we just Brexit in six month’s instead. Or maybe we’d have a hung Parliament where Corbyn gets to stay in power by default because the Commons can’t produce the numbers to remove him. So much for a “caretaker” Government.
I'm assuming that Bozo would resign as Tory leader if he lost a VONC and Jezza was installed as PM. When you say 'Do or Die' and you don't 'Do' there is only one alternative.
On topic, theres a 97.4% likelihood that O'Mara puts out a "clarification" when the House resumes sitting, that because of the imminent general election, he will defer his decision to retire "to spare the voters an unneccessary by-election"......
Jo Swinson’s fate lies in the hands of the thousands of Tories in her constituency. If they can stomach her “Bollocks to Brexit” campaign, some might still lend her a tactical vote. Others won’t.
"When Jeremy Corbyn wrote a letter putting himself forward as a transitional prime minister purely to block no deal, extend article 50 and call an election, Lib Dem leader Jo Swinson could have welcomed the move as constructive, as the SNP, Greens, Plaid Cymru have done, with several Tory backbenchers prepared to talk, too. Instead, Swinson revealed that while the Lib Dems had been willing to prop David Cameron up for five years, implementing massive cuts and trebling tuition fees, she’s not prepared to countenance supporting Corbyn for five weeks solely to stop a disorderly exit from the EU.
The key is the word solely
Exactly. She would countenance a hard Brexit but not a Corbyn led 5 week government whose remit will have agreed beforehand.
There is another practical problem. About 50 Labour MPs will not countenance any other interim PM.
So Johnson wins.
And when the five weeks are up...?
He can be VoNCed too !
In favour of who?
No-one. We have a GE and the voters decide if they want to keep Jezza, switch to Bozo's replacement (Rory?) or go full-on Farage.
Why would Johnson be replaced? Even if it panned out as planned the election would probably lead to a Conservative majority, and we just Brexit in six month’s instead. Or maybe we’d have a hung Parliament where Corbyn gets to stay in power by default because the Commons can’t produce the numbers to remove him. So much for a “caretaker” Government.
I'm assuming that Bozo would resign as Tory leader if he lost a VONC and Jezza was installed as PM. When you say 'Do or Die' and you don't 'Do' there is only one alternative.
What he actually said was Do or Dye. If unsuccessful with Brexit, he will move on from making model buses to printing batik.....
On topic, theres a 97.4% likelihood that O'Mara puts out a "clarification" when the House resumes sitting, that because of the imminent general election, he will defer his decision to retire "to spare the voters an unneccessary by-election"......
Whatever happened to Leon Trotsky? He got an ice pick That made his ears burn Whatever happened to Dear old Lenin? The great O'Mara And Sancho Panza? Whatever happened to the heroes? Whatever happened to the heroes? Whatever happened to All of the heroes? All the Shakespearoes? They watched their Rome burn Whatever happened to the heroes? Whatever happened to the heroes? No more heroes any more No more heroes any more
Jo Swinson’s fate lies in the hands of the thousands of Tories in her constituency. If they can stomach her “Bollocks to Brexit” campaign, some might still lend her a tactical vote. Others won’t.
"When Jeremy Corbyn wrote a letter putting himself forward as a transitional prime minister purely to block no deal, extend article 50 and call an election, Lib Dem leader Jo Swinson could have welcomed the move as constructive, as the SNP, Greens, Plaid Cymru have done, with several Tory backbenchers prepared to talk, too. Instead, Swinson revealed that while the Lib Dems had been willing to prop David Cameron up for five years, implementing massive cuts and trebling tuition fees, she’s not prepared to countenance supporting Corbyn for five weeks solely to stop a disorderly exit from the EU.
The key is the word solely
Exactly. She would countenance a hard Brexit but not a Corbyn led 5 week government whose remit will have agreed beforehand.
There is another practical problem. About 50 Labour MPs will not countenance any other interim PM.
So Johnson wins.
And when the five weeks are up...?
He can be VoNCed too !
In favour of who?
No-one. We have a GE and the voters decide if they want to keep Jezza, switch to Bozo's replacement (Rory?) or go full-on Farage.
Why would Johnson be replaced? Even if it panned out as planned the election would probably lead to a Conservative majority, and we just Brexit in six month’s instead. Or maybe we’d have a hung Parliament where Corbyn gets to stay in power by default because the Commons can’t produce the numbers to remove him. So much for a “caretaker” Government.
I'm assuming that Bozo would resign as Tory leader if he lost a VONC and Jezza was installed as PM. When you say 'Do or Die' and you don't 'Do' there is only one alternative.
Would be irony upon irony if, having elected Boris cause he could win an election, he ended up never fighting one...
Are our comments regarding Swinson's response to Jezza's offer totally along party lines? Or do we have any Labour posters who think she got it right and/or LibDems who think she judged in badly?
My particular problem with Swinson's response was the manner she said it. Using the word "nonsense" was not smart. No one else said anything close to that. Not even the the newest LD , Wollaston. Not even Tories like Grieve. So if Corbyn cannot bring a majority , who can ? [ I have never voted for Corbyn in any election, by the way ! ]. Do you think people like Rebecca Long Name, Ian Lavery etc. will vote for anyone else ?
They will if Corbyn asks them to. If Corbyn doesn't ask them, then there aren't the numbers there anyway.
If Ken Clarke became Prime Minister I would be so happy.
The man has more talent and integrity in his little toe than the entire cabinet and shadow cabinet combined.
And has in addition the two advantages that he has no desire to be PM beyond this moment, and is not pushing any particular solution for avoiding No Deal - being prepared to consider anything which could achieve a majority consensus in Parliament.
Setting aside the intangibles of ‘trust’ or ‘integrity’, neither of those two things are true of Jeremy Corbyn.
Jo Swinson’s fate lies in the hands of the thousands of Tories in her constituency. If they can stomach her “Bollocks to Brexit” campaign, some might still lend her a tactical vote. Others won’t.
Nobody can tell from national polls.
They'll do anything to keep the SNP out
That’s how some voters behave Mike: against a candidate.
Others prefer to vote for the candidate closest to their own views: for a candidate.
Swinson will undeniably attract *some* Tories by being anti-independence. However, she will repel *some* Tories by being anti-Brexit.
Neither you nor I can tell how those proportions will play out in East Dunbartonshire by looking at national polls (assuming we had a few to look at).
The local Tories are key. Swinson’s fate lies entirely in their hands. Hence her backing off on going for Johnson’s throat.
Is there a guarantee that Swinson can herself win in a GE against a revived SNP ?
Point to me a main party leader who has lost their seat at a general election. it doesn't happen. And in terms of revival the LDs have revived much more than the SNP in Scotland and I'd expect gains there.
Go look at how Gordon Brown did in Scotland at GE2010 - this was totally against the national trend.
I am also not aware of any party leader who had such a small majority. The next GE in Scotland will not just be about Brexit - it will also be about independence.
And currently the Scottish polls are showing a significant swing from the SNP to the Lib Dems in Scotland.
I am not aware of any recent Scotland Voting Intention polls. Crossbreaks are unreliable and very variable - some show the LDs doing OK whist others have their vote share in single figures.
There was the Ashcroft Scottish poll a week or so ago
I was not aware that included Voting Intention data. Happy to look at it.
News to me too. Happy to be proved wrong.
The latest Scottish VI polls I can find from each pollster are: Panelbase 20 June 2019 YouGov 26 April 2019 Survation 23 April 2019 Ipsos Mori 11 March 2018
Jo Swinson’s fate lies in the hands of the thousands of Tories in her constituency. If they can stomach her “Bollocks to Brexit” campaign, some might still lend her a tactical vote. Others won’t.
Nobody can tell from national polls.
They'll do anything to keep the SNP out
Will you be writing again to the constituents of East Dunbartonshire to encourage them in this?
Not sure. I don't feel strongly but the economic effect is already on the seller.
At the moment SDLT compliance is a requirement for Land Registration, which provides a reasonable means of ensuring that people pay up. I can't see how that would work if the Seller paid SDLT.
Are our comments regarding Swinson's response to Jezza's offer totally along party lines? Or do we have any Labour posters who think she got it right and/or LibDems who think she judged in badly?
My particular problem with Swinson's response was the manner she said it. Using the word "nonsense" was not smart. No one else said anything close to that. Not even the the newest LD , Wollaston. Not even Tories like Grieve. So if Corbyn cannot bring a majority , who can ? [ I have never voted for Corbyn in any election, by the way ! ]. Do you think people like Rebecca Long Name, Ian Lavery etc. will vote for anyone else ?
‘My particular problem with Swinson's response was the manner she said it.’
Actually I think that hits the nail on the head.
A few weeks ago I thought the election of young Swinson quite refreshing, what I had seen she had promise. The last few days, OMG especially interview on channel 4 news. She can have a good point, what she is actually saying. But it’s the way she comes across, 10/10 full of herself, 0/10 charm. ‘If I don’t get my way I’ll squeem and squeem and squeem’ 😟
Its important to have lib dem leaders who come across as safe as a bolthole in a tight spot, not obvious candidates for PM but someone you could still imagine as a PM, Clegg, Ashdown, even Menzies Campbell and David Steel. Swinson is none of this. What she may be thinking is her being serious and earnest just comes across as angry even nasty; What she may be saying may actually be reasonable, but how she is conveying it just wants you to see her fail.
The lib dem agent got this badly wrong last time. Won't happen again. Writing on the wall for Corbym.
I doubt that Swinson has helped LibDem prospects with her pronouncements this week. She has provided Labour with ammunition to return fire.
Wishful thinking. LAB attacks on Swinson help with tsctical voting
I suspect the wishful thinking lies with you - certainly as far as Labour tactical votes are concerned. She has given new life to 'the Tories' Little Helpers' theme. As Owen Jones points out in his Guardian article, here is someone perfectly happy to prop up Cameron for 5 years yet not prepared to put Corbyn in office for 5 weeks. So much for her committment to doing everything to avoid No Deal.
I can't believe Corbynistas are still pushing this nonsense. It's the most disingenuous load of claptrap since the last load to come out of the lying mouths of shameless propagandists like Jones. Corbyn even with the Lib Dems isn't close to having the numbers.
If Labour wanted to stop no deal it could do so by sidelining the vile Corbyn, but no, using the crisis to foist a horrible crackpot on us prime minister is more important than that.
I expect the focus to change once Swinson's proved totally right and Labour fails to come up with the numbers. They might not even be able to win the initial VONC if it's clear it's going to lead to Corbyn as PM.
If Ken Clarke became Prime Minister I would be so happy.
The man has more talent and integrity in his little toe than the entire cabinet and shadow cabinet combined.
But sadly it has yet to spread to the rest of his body.
Let us have a look at Clarke's CV.
Chairman of CUCA, barrister, QC, nearly 30 years on the front bench/government, inter alia, Chancellor of the Exchequer, Home Secretary, Lord Chancellor/Justice Secretary, Health Secretary, Education Secretary, and generally Thatcher's go to man when there was a problem needing sorting.
There's also his successful business career.
Just imagine what he could have achieved if his talent and integrity had spread to the rest of his body.
Yes, he is the perfect establishment tool to block Brexit and Farage would not believe his luck if he got Clarke as Tory PM of a Government of Remainers backed by Labour, the LDs, the SNP and anti No Deal Tory MPs led by Philip Hammond to throw out the biggest vote in postwar British history
Are our comments regarding Swinson's response to Jezza's offer totally along party lines? Or do we have any Labour posters who think she got it right and/or LibDems who think she judged in badly?
My particular problem with Swinson's response was the manner she said it. Using the word "nonsense" was not smart. No one else said anything close to that. Not even the the newest LD , Wollaston. Not even Tories like Grieve. So if Corbyn cannot bring a majority , who can ? [ I have never voted for Corbyn in any election, by the way ! ]. Do you think people like Rebecca Long Name, Ian Lavery etc. will vote for anyone else ?
‘My particular problem with Swinson's response was the manner she said it.’
Actually I think that hits the nail on the head.
A few weeks ago I thought the election of young Swinson quite refreshing, what I had seen she had promise. The last few days, OMG especially interview on channel 4 news. She can have a good point, what she is actually saying. But it’s the way she comes across, 10/10 full of herself, 0/10 charm. ‘If I don’t get my way I’ll squeem and squeem and squeem’ 😟
Its important to have lib dem leaders who come across as safe as a bolthole in a tight spot, not obvious candidates for PM but someone you could still imagine as a PM, Clegg, Ashdown, even Menzies Campbell and David Steel. Swinson is none of this. What she may be thinking is her being serious and earnest just comes across as angry even nasty; What she may be saying may actually be reasonable, but how she is conveying it just wants you to see her fail.
What has become of UK politics. 😕
If you find Swinson angry and nasty, she is just the tip of the SLD iceberg. Next exhibit: Willie Rennie.
The lib dem agent got this badly wrong last time. Won't happen again. Writing on the wall for Corbym.
I doubt that Swinson has helped LibDem prospects with her pronouncements this week. She has provided Labour with ammunition to return fire.
Wishful thinking. LAB attacks on Swinson help with tsctical voting
I suspect the wishful thinking lies with you - certainly as far as Labour tactical votes are concerned. She has given new life to 'the Tories' Little Helpers' theme. As Owen Jones points out in his Guardian article, here is someone perfectly happy to prop up Cameron for 5 years yet not prepared to put Corbyn in office for 5 weeks. So much for her committment to doing everything to avoid No Deal.
I can't believe Corbynistas are still pushing this nonsense. It's the most disingenuous load of claptrap since the last load to come out of the lying mouths of shameless propagandists like Jones. Corbyn even with the Lib Dems isn't close to having the numbers.
If Labour wanted to stop no deal it could do so by sidelining the vile Corbyn, but no, using the crisis to foist a horrible crackpot on us prime minister is more important than that.
I expect the focus to change once Swinson's proved totally right and Labour fails to come up with the numbers. They might not even be able to win the initial VONC if it's clear it's going to lead to Corbyn as PM.
If it wasn't so consequential, this would really be fun.
Are our comments regarding Swinson's response to Jezza's offer totally along party lines? Or do we have any Labour posters who think she got it right and/or LibDems who think she judged in badly?
My particular problem with Swinson's response was the manner she said it. Using the word "nonsense" was not smart. No one else said anything close to that. Not even the the newest LD , Wollaston. Not even Tories like Grieve. So if Corbyn cannot bring a majority , who can ? [ I have never voted for Corbyn in any election, by the way ! ]. Do you think people like Rebecca Long Name, Ian Lavery etc. will vote for anyone else ?
‘My particular problem with Swinson's response was the manner she said it.’
Actually I think that hits the nail on the head.
A few weeks ago I thought the election of young Swinson quite refreshing, what I had seen she had promise. The last few days, OMG especially interview on channel 4 news. She can have a good point, what she is actually saying. But it’s the way she comes across, 10/10 full of herself, 0/10 charm. ‘If I don’t get my way I’ll squeem and squeem and squeem’ 😟
Its important to have lib dem leaders who come across as safe as a bolthole in a tight spot, not obvious candidates for PM but someone you could still imagine as a PM, Clegg, Ashdown, even Menzies Campbell and David Steel. Swinson is none of this. What she may be thinking is her being serious and earnest just comes across as angry even nasty; What she may be saying may actually be reasonable, but how she is conveying it just wants you to see her fail.
Hmm. So Boris is now reaching out to Angela and Emmanuel. Perhaps the parliamentary campaign to stop No Deal - i.e the fact that it looks doomed - has focused his mind.
Extension and fresh talks. That's the only way out for the Great Man.
He will try and renegotiate the backstop but there won't be a further extension as he knows that means the Brexit Party overtake the Tories again and push the Tories into third, he has to deliver Brexit on October 31st Deal or No Deal as he has promised
Maybe he thinks (knows) that no deal Brexit will be a catastrophe for the Country and doesn’t want that to be his defining legacy. As a remainer, surely you can empathise with that? And he really was bluffing all along. Just a thought.
If Boris does not deliver Brexit his defining legacy will be to be the Kim Campbell of UK politics and the last ever Tory PM and he knows that
If Ken was more Machiavellian than he is, he could become PM under a GNU deal and then, swept along by the widespread demonstrations by the people in the streets, announce a GE with him and his new Moderates Party seriously in the running.
Are our comments regarding Swinson's response to Jezza's offer totally along party lines? Or do we have any Labour posters who think she got it right and/or LibDems who think she judged in badly?
My particular problem with Swinson's response was the manner she said it. Using the word "nonsense" was not smart. No one else said anything close to that. Not even the the newest LD , Wollaston. Not even Tories like Grieve. So if Corbyn cannot bring a majority , who can ? [ I have never voted for Corbyn in any election, by the way ! ]. Do you think people like Rebecca Long Name, Ian Lavery etc. will vote for anyone else ?
‘My particular problem with Swinson's response was the manner she said it.’
Actually I think that hits the nail on the head.
A few weeks ago I thought the election of young Swinson quite refreshing, what I had seen she had promise. The last few days, OMG especially interview on channel 4 news. She can have a good point, what she is actually saying. But it’s the way she comes across, 10/10 full of herself, 0/10 charm. ‘If I don’t get my way I’ll squeem and squeem and squeem’ 😟
Its important to have lib dem leaders who come across as safe as a bolthole in a tight spot, not obvious candidates for PM but someone you could still imagine as a PM, Clegg, Ashdown, even Menzies Campbell and David Steel. Swinson is none of this. What she may be thinking is her being serious and earnest just comes across as angry even nasty; What she may be saying may actually be reasonable, but how she is conveying it just wants you to see her fail.
What has become of UK politics. 😕
Jo Swinson = Vicky Pollard?
Actually it was Violet Elizabeth who "Scweamed and scweamed"...
How crap was Clegg to lose it to the numpty in the first place? Still a million a year and a nice house for being Zuckerberg's fluffer must seem like a better gig.
If you are going to sell your soul, at least get a decent price.
Are our comments regarding Swinson's response to Jezza's offer totally along party lines? Or do we have any Labour posters who think she got it right and/or LibDems who think she judged in badly?
I don't know about here, but tomorrow's Guardian will have a letter from the LibDem leader in my patch (with me and the Green leader) urging that Corbyn's offer be taken seriously. That should not be taken as an attack on Swinson - it simply reflects the fact that we all doubt if there is another way to stop No Deal.
Are our comments regarding Swinson's response to Jezza's offer totally along party lines? Or do we have any Labour posters who think she got it right and/or LibDems who think she judged in badly?
My particular problem with Swinson's response was the manner she said it. Using the word "nonsense" was not smart. No one else said anything close to that. Not even the the newest LD , Wollaston. Not even Tories like Grieve. So if Corbyn cannot bring a majority , who can ? [ I have never voted for Corbyn in any election, by the way ! ]. Do you think people like Rebecca Long Name, Ian Lavery etc. will vote for anyone else ?
‘My particular problem with Swinson's response was the manner she said it.’
Actually I think that hits the nail on the head.
A few weeks ago I thought the election of young Swinson quite refreshing, what I had seen she had promise. The last few days, OMG especially interview on channel 4 news. She can have a good point, what she is actually saying. But it’s the way she comes across, 10/10 full of herself, 0/10 charm. ‘If I don’t get my way I’ll squeem and squeem and squeem’ 😟
Its important to have lib dem leaders who come across as safe as a bolthole in a tight spot, not obvious candidates for PM but someone you could still imagine as a PM, Clegg, Ashdown, even Menzies Campbell and David Steel. Swinson is none of this. What she may be thinking is her being serious and earnest just comes across as angry even nasty; What she may be saying may actually be reasonable, but how she is conveying it just wants you to see her fail.
What has become of UK politics. 😕
If you find Swinson angry and nasty, she is just the tip of the SLD iceberg. Next exhibit: Willie Rennie.
The main thrust of my point is not the weaknesses of Swinson, but the direction of UK politics that has installed her and the other leaders. Jo, Bojo, and Jez were elevated because what were the alternatives? Javid? Gove? Raab? Hunt? I don’t wish to come over all Seant, but Cooper and Burnham are about as charismatic as the downbeat farts you get from eating too much wet lettuce.
Maybe in this modern era where respect for politics itself is at all time low, it’s a career no longer attracting enough talent? Certainly the political parties themselves are very different, in a mind to purge members rather than seeing remaining a broad church as sacrosanct and vital to the parties electability.
Are our comments regarding Swinson's response to Jezza's offer totally along party lines? Or do we have any Labour posters who think she got it right and/or LibDems who think she judged in badly?
I don't know about here, but tomorrow's Guardian will have a letter from the LibDem leader in my patch (with me and the Green leader) urging that Corbyn's offer be taken seriously. That should not be taken as an attack on Swinson - it simply reflects the fact that we all doubt if there is another way to stop No Deal.
Ken Clarke might be able to get a majority for a GNU to extend again, with Boris becoming Leader of the Opposition.
Corbyn would not be able to get the 50 odd Tory MPs needed who oppose No Deal and the LDs and CUK behind him, Clarke might.
We would then have a Clarke government propped up by Labour, the LDs, Hammond led Tory rebels, CUK, the SNP and Plaid and the Greens with Boris Leader of the Opposition comprising the majority of Tory MPs and the DUP and a handful of rebel pro Brexit Labour MPs like Hoey and Mann
Are our comments regarding Swinson's response to Jezza's offer totally along party lines? Or do we have any Labour posters who think she got it right and/or LibDems who think she judged in badly?
I don't know about here, but tomorrow's Guardian will have a letter from the LibDem leader in my patch (with me and the Green leader) urging that Corbyn's offer be taken seriously. That should not be taken as an attack on Swinson - it simply reflects the fact that we all doubt if there is another way to stop No Deal.
Labour are the biggest opposition party.
It is incredible therefore that Swinson and half the Labour Party don’t want Jezza as the alternative PM.
But not as incredible as Jezza being leader of the Labour Party.
And not as incredible as former moderates such as Nick lining up to support him.
Labour have been sleepwalking to this abyss for years - now they are nearly over the edge. Goodnight Labour.
Are our comments regarding Swinson's response to Jezza's offer totally along party lines? Or do we have any Labour posters who think she got it right and/or LibDems who think she judged in badly?
I don't know about here, but tomorrow's Guardian will have a letter from the LibDem leader in my patch (with me and the Green leader) urging that Corbyn's offer be taken seriously. That should not be taken as an attack on Swinson - it simply reflects the fact that we all doubt if there is another way to stop No Deal.
Labour are the biggest opposition party.
It is incredible therefore that Swinson and half the Labour Party don’t want Jezza as the alternative PM.
But not as incredible as Jezza being leader of the Labour Party.
And not as incredible as former moderates such as Nick lining up to support him.
Labour have been sleepwalking to this abyss for years - now they are nearly over the edge. Goodnight Labour.
You say 'Labour' but it isn't Labour. Not as far as the current membership goes. Whatever they are, and I suspect it is mainly student millennial Grace Blakely marxists and clapped out 1970s Trots, they aren't the people who helped Wilson or Blair win several times.
Are our comments regarding Swinson's response to Jezza's offer totally along party lines? Or do we have any Labour posters who think she got it right and/or LibDems who think she judged in badly?
I don't know about here, but tomorrow's Guardian will have a letter from the LibDem leader in my patch (with me and the Green leader) urging that Corbyn's offer be taken seriously. That should not be taken as an attack on Swinson - it simply reflects the fact that we all doubt if there is another way to stop No Deal.
Ken Clarke might be able to get a majority for a GNU to extend again, with Boris becoming Leader of the Opposition.
Corbyn would not be able to get the 50 odd Tory MPs needed who oppose No Deal and the LDs and CUK behind him, Clarke might.
We would then have a Clarke government propped up by Labour, the LDs, Hammond led Tory rebels, CUK, the SNP and Plaid and the Greens with Boris Leader of the Opposition comprising the majority of Tory MPs and the DUP and a handful of rebel pro Brexit Labour MPs like Hoey and Mann
Are our comments regarding Swinson's response to Jezza's offer totally along party lines? Or do we have any Labour posters who think she got it right and/or LibDems who think she judged in badly?
I don't know about here, but tomorrow's Guardian will have a letter from the LibDem leader in my patch (with me and the Green leader) urging that Corbyn's offer be taken seriously. That should not be taken as an attack on Swinson - it simply reflects the fact that we all doubt if there is another way to stop No Deal.
Labour are the biggest opposition party.
It is incredible therefore that Swinson and half the Labour Party don’t want Jezza as the alternative PM.
But not as incredible as Jezza being leader of the Labour Party.
And not as incredible as former moderates such as Nick lining up to support him.
Labour have been sleepwalking to this abyss for years - now they are nearly over the edge. Goodnight Labour.
You say 'Labour' but it isn't Labour. Not as far as the current membership goes. Whatever they are, and I suspect it is mainly student millennial Grace Blakely marxists and clapped out 1970s Trots, they aren't the people who helped Wilson or Blair win several times.
Yvette Cooper Tom Watson Keir Starmer
It’s Labour alright - but they’ve sold their souls to the devil.
Are our comments regarding Swinson's response to Jezza's offer totally along party lines? Or do we have any Labour posters who think she got it right and/or LibDems who think she judged in badly?
I don't know about here, but tomorrow's Guardian will have a letter from the LibDem leader in my patch (with me and the Green leader) urging that Corbyn's offer be taken seriously. That should not be taken as an attack on Swinson - it simply reflects the fact that we all doubt if there is another way to stop No Deal.
Ken Clarke might be able to get a majority for a GNU to extend again, with Boris becoming Leader of the Opposition.
Corbyn would not be able to get the 50 odd Tory MPs needed who oppose No Deal and the LDs and CUK behind him, Clarke might.
We would then have a Clarke government propped up by Labour, the LDs, Hammond led Tory rebels, CUK, the SNP and Plaid and the Greens with Boris Leader of the Opposition comprising the majority of Tory MPs and the DUP and a handful of rebel pro Brexit Labour MPs like Hoey and Mann
You are right about the immediate and irredeemable split in the Conservative Party but probably wrong about Boris being Leader of the Opposition since he will almost certainly have resigned as party leader.
Are our comments regarding Swinson's response to Jezza's offer totally along party lines? Or do we have any Labour posters who think she got it right and/or LibDems who think she judged in badly?
I don't know about here, but tomorrow's Guardian will have a letter from the LibDem leader in my patch (with me and the Green leader) urging that Corbyn's offer be taken seriously. That should not be taken as an attack on Swinson - it simply reflects the fact that we all doubt if there is another way to stop No Deal.
Ken Clarke might be able to get a majority for a GNU to extend again, with Boris becoming Leader of the Opposition.
Corbyn would not be able to get the 50 odd Tory MPs needed who oppose No Deal and the LDs and CUK behind him, Clarke might.
We would then have a Clarke government propped up by Labour, the LDs, Hammond led Tory rebels, CUK, the SNP and Plaid and the Greens with Boris Leader of the Opposition comprising the majority of Tory MPs and the DUP and a handful of rebel pro Brexit Labour MPs like Hoey and Mann
So PM - what’s your policy ?
Well extend then er...
Tbf to KC he was very clear on this point on PM. That the important thing was to unite around a plan not a person. I fear he is somewhat Sui Generis amongst MPs of all persuasions on this.
The lib dem agent got this badly wrong last time. Won't happen again. Writing on the wall for Corbym.
I doubt that Swinson has helped LibDem prospects with her pronouncements this week. She has provided Labour with ammunition to return fire.
Wishful thinking. LAB attacks on Swinson help with tsctical voting
I suspect the wishful thinking lies with you - certainly as far as Labour tactical votes are concerned. She has given new life to 'the Tories' Little Helpers' theme. As Owen Jones points out in his Guardian article, here is someone perfectly happy to prop up Cameron for 5 years yet not prepared to put Corbyn in office for 5 weeks. So much for her committment to doing everything to avoid No Deal.
I can't believe Corbynistas are still pushing this nonsense. It's the most disingenuous load of claptrap since the last load to come out of the lying mouths of shameless propagandists like Jones. Corbyn even with the Lib Dems isn't close to having the numbers.
If Labour wanted to stop no deal it could do so by sidelining the vile Corbyn, but no, using the crisis to foist a horrible crackpot on us prime minister is more important than that.
I expect the focus to change once Swinson's proved totally right and Labour fails to come up with the numbers. They might not even be able to win the initial VONC if it's clear it's going to lead to Corbyn as PM.
And to state the bleeding obvious: If the Corbnistas were serious about stopping No Deal, they would be wooing Swinsons's Lib Dems, not slagging them off.
For Corbyn it is all about dodging the wrath of the Labour voters for his evasive and mendacious role in the Brexit farce.
Are our comments regarding Swinson's response to Jezza's offer totally along party lines? Or do we have any Labour posters who think she got it right and/or LibDems who think she judged in badly?
I don't know about here, but tomorrow's Guardian will have a letter from the LibDem leader in my patch (with me and the Green leader) urging that Corbyn's offer be taken seriously. That should not be taken as an attack on Swinson - it simply reflects the fact that we all doubt if there is another way to stop No Deal.
Labour are the biggest opposition party.
It is incredible therefore that Swinson and half the Labour Party don’t want Jezza as the alternative PM.
But not as incredible as Jezza being leader of the Labour Party.
And not as incredible as former moderates such as Nick lining up to support him.
Labour have been sleepwalking to this abyss for years - now they are nearly over the edge. Goodnight Labour.
You say 'Labour' but it isn't Labour. Not as far as the current membership goes. Whatever they are, and I suspect it is mainly student millennial Grace Blakely marxists and clapped out 1970s Trots, they aren't the people who helped Wilson or Blair win several times.
We're all Lib Dems now. I saw Corbyn on TV tonight and wondered what sort of a campaign could you use to sell him. I couldn't think of a single USP other than he's not Johnson but Swinson's already has that one taken.
You say 'Labour' but it isn't Labour. Not as far as the current membership goes. Whatever they are, and I suspect it is mainly student millennial Grace Blakely marxists and clapped out 1970s Trots, they aren't the people who helped Wilson or Blair win several times.
Yes they are - mostly. The majority of members who I know in both my current and my former CLPs have been members (sometimes on and off) for 20+ years - typically they joined around age 30 and are now around age 50. Most are like me, pragmatic leftists who favour the most left-wing government (within reason) that can realistically be achieved. In 1997 there was so much to do to clean up the Tory shambles that Blair's agenda was plenty to be getting on with. By 2010, we felt we'd run through that agenda, and by 2015 we wanted something more radical.
The tug of war is *always* between people who think that the party if it moves too far left, and people who think it's only worth winning if you're attractively left-wing. Very few members have ever actually wanted to be Christian Democrat types - it's just that some felt it was necessary. In the present climate, perhaps not.
Are our comments regarding Swinson's response to Jezza's offer totally along party lines? Or do we have any Labour posters who think she got it right and/or LibDems who think she judged in badly?
I don't know about here, but tomorrow's Guardian will have a letter from the LibDem leader in my patch (with me and the Green leader) urging that Corbyn's offer be taken seriously. That should not be taken as an attack on Swinson - it simply reflects the fact that we all doubt if there is another way to stop No Deal.
Ken Clarke might be able to get a majority for a GNU to extend again, with Boris becoming Leader of the Opposition.
Corbyn would not be able to get the 50 odd Tory MPs needed who oppose No Deal and the LDs and CUK behind him, Clarke might.
We would then have a Clarke government propped up by Labour, the LDs, Hammond led Tory rebels, CUK, the SNP and Plaid and the Greens with Boris Leader of the Opposition comprising the majority of Tory MPs and the DUP and a handful of rebel pro Brexit Labour MPs like Hoey and Mann
You are right about the immediate and irredeemable split in the Conservative Party but probably wrong about Boris being Leader of the Opposition since he will almost certainly have resigned as party leader.
Oh absolutely not, Boris would remain leader of the Tory Party with the vast majority of Tory MPs and an even bigger majority of Tory members and voters fully behind him as Leader of the Leaver Opposition to take the fight to the Clarke led Remainer Government, propped up by Hammond, Corbyn and Swinson and Sturgeon betraying the will of the people.
Boris will relish being the champion of the people against the establishment Remainer coup and the idea of a Tory Remainer like Ken Clarke as PM propped up by Corbyn to betray Brexit will go down a treat in Labour Leave seats Boris needs to win to win the next general election
Are our comments regarding Swinson's response to Jezza's offer totally along party lines? Or do we have any Labour posters who think she got it right and/or LibDems who think she judged in badly?
I don't know about here, but tomorrow's Guardian will have a letter from the LibDem leader in my patch (with me and the Green leader) urging that Corbyn's offer be taken seriously. That should not be taken as an attack on Swinson - it simply reflects the fact that we all doubt if there is another way to stop No Deal.
If he was the only way to stop no deal he'd get my vote but for most Lbour Remainers I know it would be a toss up.
You say 'Labour' but it isn't Labour. Not as far as the current membership goes. Whatever they are, and I suspect it is mainly student millennial Grace Blakely marxists and clapped out 1970s Trots, they aren't the people who helped Wilson or Blair win several times.
Yes they are - mostly. The majority of members who I know in both my current and my former CLPs have been members (sometimes on and off) for 20+ years - typically they joined around age 30 and are now around age 50. Most are like me, pragmatic leftists who favour the most left-wing government (within reason) that can realistically be achieved. In 1997 there was so much to do to clean up the Tory shambles that Blair's agenda was plenty to be getting on with. By 2010, we felt we'd run through that agenda, and by 2015 we wanted something more radical.
The tug of war is *always* between people who think that the party if it moves too far left, and people who think it's only worth winning if you're attractively left-wing. Very few members have ever actually wanted to be Christian Democrat types - it's just that some felt it was necessary. In the present climate, perhaps not.
So why are so many long standing members leaving in disgust?
The lib dem agent got this badly wrong last time. Won't happen again. Writing on the wall for Corbym.
I doubt that Swinson has helped LibDem prospects with her pronouncements this week. She has provided Labour with ammunition to return fire.
Wishful thinking. LAB attacks on Swinson help with tsctical voting
I suspect the wishful thinking lies with you - certainly as far as Labour tactical votes are concerned. She has given new life to 'the Tories' Little Helpers' theme. As Owen Jones points out in his Guardian article, here is someone perfectly happy to prop up Cameron for 5 years yet not prepared to put Corbyn in office for 5 weeks. So much for her committment to doing everything to avoid No Deal.
I can't believe Corbynistas are still pushing this nonsense. It's the most disingenuous load of claptrap since the last load to come out of the lying mouths of shameless propagandists like Jones. Corbyn even with the Lib Dems isn't close to having the numbers.
If Labour wanted to stop no deal it could do so by sidelining the vile Corbyn, but no, using the crisis to foist a horrible crackpot on us prime minister is more important than that.
I expect the focus to change once Swinson's proved totally right and Labour fails to come up with the numbers. They might not even be able to win the initial VONC if it's clear it's going to lead to Corbyn as PM.
And to state the bleeding obvious: If the Corbnistas were serious about stopping No Deal, they would be wooing Swinsons's Lib Dems, not slagging them off.
For Corbyn it is all about dodging the wrath of the Labour voters for his evasive and mendacious role in the Brexit farce.
Yep.
When the history books are written Corbyn's handmaiden role in this economic disaster will be documented.
But to be fair to him briefly, he has been a LEXITeer since Tony Benn asked him to carry a bag, and he aint gonna change now.
Jo Swinson’s fate lies in the hands of the thousands of Tories in her constituency. If they can stomach her “Bollocks to Brexit” campaign, some might still lend her a tactical vote. Others won’t.
Nobody can tell from national polls.
They'll do anything to keep the SNP out
That’s how some voters behave Mike: against a candidate.
Others prefer to vote for the candidate closest to their own views: for a candidate.
Swinson will undeniably attract *some* Tories by being anti-independence. However, she will repel *some* Tories by being anti-Brexit.
Neither you nor I can tell how those proportions will play out in East Dunbartonshire by looking at national polls (assuming we had a few to look at).
The local Tories are key. Swinson’s fate lies entirely in their hands. Hence her backing off on going for Johnson’s throat.
Yes, but Scots do seem particularly keen on a party when it appoints a Scottish leader. Brown, Kennedy, Steel, etc.
Comments
Chairman of CUCA, barrister, QC, nearly 30 years on the front bench/government, inter alia, Chancellor of the Exchequer, Home Secretary, Lord Chancellor/Justice Secretary, Health Secretary, Education Secretary, and generally Thatcher's go to man when there was a problem needing sorting.
There's also his successful business career.
Just imagine what he could have achieved if his talent and integrity had spread to the rest of his body.
So if Corbyn cannot bring a majority , who can ? [ I have never voted for Corbyn in any election, by the way ! ]. Do you think people like Rebecca Long Name, Ian Lavery etc. will vote for anyone else ?
Winners don't get VoNCed...
Swinson majority 5,339
Johnson majority 5,034
Nobody can tell from national polls.
...whilst remaining as PM.
Leon Trotsky?
He got an ice pick
That made his ears burn
Whatever happened to
Dear old Lenin?
The great O'Mara
And Sancho Panza?
Whatever happened to the heroes?
Whatever happened to the heroes?
Whatever happened to
All of the heroes?
All the Shakespearoes?
They watched their Rome burn
Whatever happened to the heroes?
Whatever happened to the heroes?
No more heroes any more
No more heroes any more
Manfred Weber 5/6
Margrethe Vestager 6/1
Michel Barnier 8/1
Frans Timmermans 9/1
Pierre Moscovici 20/1
Enda Kenny 25/1
(PP)
Setting aside the intangibles of ‘trust’ or ‘integrity’, neither of those two things are true of Jeremy Corbyn.
Others prefer to vote for the candidate closest to their own views: for a candidate.
Swinson will undeniably attract *some* Tories by being anti-independence. However, she will repel *some* Tories by being anti-Brexit.
Neither you nor I can tell how those proportions will play out in East Dunbartonshire by looking at national polls (assuming we had a few to look at).
The local Tories are key. Swinson’s fate lies entirely in their hands. Hence her backing off on going for Johnson’s throat.
The latest Scottish VI polls I can find from each pollster are:
Panelbase 20 June 2019
YouGov 26 April 2019
Survation 23 April 2019
Ipsos Mori 11 March 2018
Not much to go on.
At the moment SDLT compliance is a requirement for Land Registration, which provides a reasonable means of ensuring that people pay up. I can't see how that would work if the Seller paid SDLT.
Actually I think that hits the nail on the head.
A few weeks ago I thought the election of young Swinson quite refreshing, what I had seen she had promise. The last few days, OMG especially interview on channel 4 news. She can have a good point, what she is actually saying. But it’s the way she comes across, 10/10 full of herself, 0/10 charm. ‘If I don’t get my way I’ll squeem and squeem and squeem’ 😟
Its important to have lib dem leaders who come across as safe as a bolthole in a tight spot, not obvious candidates for PM but someone you could still imagine as a PM, Clegg, Ashdown, even Menzies Campbell and David Steel. Swinson is none of this. What she may be thinking is her being serious and earnest just comes across as angry even nasty; What she may be saying may actually be reasonable, but how she is conveying it just wants you to see her fail.
What has become of UK politics. 😕
If Labour wanted to stop no deal it could do so by sidelining the vile Corbyn, but no, using the crisis to foist a horrible crackpot on us prime minister is more important than that.
I expect the focus to change once Swinson's proved totally right and Labour fails to come up with the numbers. They might not even be able to win the initial VONC if it's clear it's going to lead to Corbyn as PM.
https://twitter.com/sara_rose_g/status/1162327459448184833?s=21
Bonkers?
Yes. But so has the last 3 years been.
Hubris alert!!
Maybe in this modern era where respect for politics itself is at all time low, it’s a career no longer attracting enough talent? Certainly the political parties themselves are very different, in a mind to purge members rather than seeing remaining a broad church as sacrosanct and vital to the parties electability.
Ken Clarke staggers off the holiday beach, sun burnt, a tad over on the Adrian Chiles on the old units, to find her maj wants him to be next PM.
Corbyn would not be able to get the 50 odd Tory MPs needed who oppose No Deal and the LDs and CUK behind him, Clarke might.
We would then have a Clarke government propped up by Labour, the LDs, Hammond led Tory rebels, CUK, the SNP and Plaid and the Greens with Boris Leader of the Opposition comprising the majority of Tory MPs and the DUP and a handful of rebel pro Brexit Labour MPs like Hoey and Mann
It is incredible therefore that Swinson and half the Labour Party don’t want Jezza as the alternative PM.
But not as incredible as Jezza being leader of the Labour Party.
And not as incredible as former moderates such as Nick lining up to support him.
Labour have been sleepwalking to this abyss for years - now they are nearly over the edge. Goodnight Labour.
https://twitter.com/scotnational/status/1162307260766478336?s=21
Well extend then er...
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1162468054200139778
Tom Watson
Keir Starmer
It’s Labour alright - but they’ve sold their souls to the devil.
The Little Englanders will be dancing in the streets
https://twitter.com/scotnational/status/1162307260766478336?s=21
Serious point though. When finally (please please please) Trump is gone, Halley is the one?
For Corbyn it is all about dodging the wrath of the Labour voters for his evasive and mendacious role in the Brexit farce.
The tug of war is *always* between people who think that the party if it moves too far left, and people who think it's only worth winning if you're attractively left-wing. Very few members have ever actually wanted to be Christian Democrat types - it's just that some felt it was necessary. In the present climate, perhaps not.
Boris will relish being the champion of the people against the establishment Remainer coup and the idea of a Tory Remainer like Ken Clarke as PM propped up by Corbyn to betray Brexit will go down a treat in Labour Leave seats Boris needs to win to win the next general election
Starting to like my Buttigieg wildcard bet at 250/1
When the history books are written Corbyn's handmaiden role in this economic disaster will be documented.
But to be fair to him briefly, he has been a LEXITeer since Tony Benn asked him to carry a bag, and he aint gonna change now.