Johnson wants No Deal as he wants to be a 'wartime' leader who has masses of stuff for his autobiography.
Corbyn wants No Deal because he thinks the chaos will be so bad the Brits will vote him into No. 10.
Johnson wants no deal because it's the most popular option among Tories and likely tory voters. He Hope's he can make it work.
Boris hopes he can win a snap election before the voters notice that project fear was even half right.
Unfortunately, you are probably correct. Should he win a majority, which is likely imho, then we will have five years of Johnson dealing with No Deal, and no matter how bad it is we will have no way of getting rid of him.
Is the first sign of insanity when you start to wonder if Boris's best option is to support Jeremy Corbyn as temporary PM forcing an extension and election, which Boris then wins. Boris can then rerun the referendum and do it properly this time, remaining above the fray like Wilson in 1975, and establishing a single, concrete Brexit position?
The trouble is Boris would probably have to resign as leader of the Conservative Party if his government did lose a VONC, so the rest falls.
If the Lib Dems were really smart they would vote Corbyn in, wait until he had taken no deal off the table, and then vote him out again.
Then claim the credit for both avoiding no deal and getting rid of Corbyn.
Job done.
Unfortunately for them they are not in any way smart though.
If the Lib Dems do anything to make Corbyn PM, they can forget about my vote.
I have been impressed with Jo Swinson who does seem to have a good political antenna.
Supporting Corbyn would stop the Lib Dems progress in all those southern seats they hope to win and would be an enormous gift to Boris
After yesterday's debacle, Jo Swinson, nice person she undoubtedly is, now holds a position way above her capabilities. At least, 9 other Lib Dems are probably better qualified.
Tom Brake rejected any idea the Lib Dems would support Corbyn earlier today.
You may not like the message but Corbyn is toxic to so many
So the party which currently is equivalent of a rounding error decides who will become PM ? Is that correct ? No Deal is Nailed On, I'm afraid.
If the Lib Dems were really smart they would vote Corbyn in, wait until he had taken no deal off the table, and then vote him out again.
Then claim the credit for both avoiding no deal and getting rid of Corbyn.
Job done.
Unfortunately for them they are not in any way smart though.
If the Lib Dems do anything to make Corbyn PM, they can forget about my vote.
I have been impressed with Jo Swinson who does seem to have a good political antenna.
Supporting Corbyn would stop the Lib Dems progress in all those southern seats they hope to win and would be an enormous gift to Boris
After yesterday's debacle, Jo Swinson, nice person she undoubtedly is, now holds a position way above her capabilities. At least, 9 other Lib Dems are probably better qualified.
Tom Brake rejected any idea the Lib Dems would support Corbyn earlier today.
You may not like the message but Corbyn is toxic to so many
So the party which currently is equivalent of a rounding error decides who will become PM ? Is that correct ? No Deal is Nailed On, I'm afraid.
I'm no even sure we will get a winning VoNC at this rate, as too many MPs would worry Corbyn would win the subsequent election. They would rather No Deal.
If the Lib Dems were really smart they would vote Corbyn in, wait until he had taken no deal off the table, and then vote him out again.
Then claim the credit for both avoiding no deal and getting rid of Corbyn.
Job done.
Unfortunately for them they are not in any way smart though.
If the Lib Dems do anything to make Corbyn PM, they can forget about my vote.
I have been impressed with Jo Swinson who does seem to have a good political antenna.
Supporting Corbyn would stop the Lib Dems progress in all those southern seats they hope to win and would be an enormous gift to Boris
After yesterday's debacle, Jo Swinson, nice person she undoubtedly is, now holds a position way above her capabilities. At least, 9 other Lib Dems are probably better qualified.
Tom Brake rejected any idea the Lib Dems would support Corbyn earlier today.
You may not like the message but Corbyn is toxic to so many
So the party which currently is equivalent of a rounding error decides who will become PM ? Is that correct ? No Deal is Nailed On, I'm afraid.
For a start I don't think c20 is a rounding error.
Plus not sure if 2.68 is nailed on (although like you I keep saying it is - though at last I say it for effect.)
Name one positive thing any of you , Scott and Harry have ever posted. If it was a positive critique etc I could see the point but all I ever see is just petty vitriol regardless if correct or not and you are not consistent where London government is concerned. Scott and Harry are the worst , however as you are intelligent I would have expected a far more balanced opinion from you.
Malc, I hadn't realised that you were a champion of generosity and balance in your posts? The list of politicians who you admire seems notable mainly for its brevity.
By necessity Nick, not sure many on here could name more than a handful of decent ones at present
Boris is promoting a simple message that we are out on the 31st October
The remainers have a divided agenda, fighting each other, and in it all Corbyn is the worst leader of the opposition we have ever seen.
Labour are paying a huge price for sticking with toxic Corbyn. Starmer, Cooper or Benn would have backed a referendum by now and the HOC would have agreed
To remainers, Corbyn has been your worst nightmare
Name one positive thing any of you , Scott and Harry have ever posted. If it was a positive critique etc I could see the point but all I ever see is just petty vitriol regardless if correct or not and you are not consistent where London government is concerned. Scott and Harry are the worst , however as you are intelligent I would have expected a far more balanced opinion from you.
Malc, I hadn't realised that you were a champion of generosity and balance in your posts? The list of politicians who you admire seems notable mainly for its brevity.
By necessity Nick, not sure many on here could name more than a handful of decent ones at present
German car makers back to the rescue on R4. Nigel Evans sounding unhinged. Corbyn, if voted in by a majority of MPs would be "a coup against Britain". Boris has won the argument and the vote in the country apparently...
Pile of crap. I will never forgive them for introducing the smoking ban.
Best thing ever done.
I think you might mean worst thing ever done. Otherwise your sentence doesn't make any sense.
No.
It helped me stop smoking 15 years ago and as my practice nurse recently said I would not have survived my copd if I had continued smoking
So you get to live longer while the rest of us have to suffer with School Disco Public Houses.
Not a fair trade.
A perfectly fair trade. I used to work in those Public Houses when smoking was permitted. It was a foul atmosphere and the place reeked of stale tobacco.
Before the ban 2/3rds of bar workers had respiratory illnesses caused by other people's smoke.
Frankly, I am amazed that anyone ever starts. If it tastes anything like it smells.....
There simply aren't the numbers for that (never mind the problems of mandate).
Any hypothetical coalition of the unwilling has a very limited shared prospectus.
Any serious prospect of Ken Clarke or any other Tory prime minister would likely split the Conservative Party which has only just elected Boris in a landslide, and which is relying on his charisma to win an election. If this anti-Brexit coup is to happen at all, it surely has to be Corbyn or some other non-Conservative. It might be time to look at the Harman or Beckett prices again.
If the Lib Dems were really smart they would vote Corbyn in, wait until he had taken no deal off the table, and then vote him out again.
Then claim the credit for both avoiding no deal and getting rid of Corbyn.
Job done.
Unfortunately for them they are not in any way smart though.
If the Lib Dems do anything to make Corbyn PM, they can forget about my vote.
I have been impressed with Jo Swinson who does seem to have a good political antenna.
Supporting Corbyn would stop the Lib Dems progress in all those southern seats they hope to win and would be an enormous gift to Boris
After yesterday's debacle, Jo Swinson, nice person she undoubtedly is, now holds a position way above her capabilities. At least, 9 other Lib Dems are probably better qualified.
Tom Brake rejected any idea the Lib Dems would support Corbyn earlier today.
You may not like the message but Corbyn is toxic to so many
So the party which currently is equivalent of a rounding error decides who will become PM ? Is that correct ? No Deal is Nailed On, I'm afraid.
Direct your ire at Corbyn. He is leavers best friend
Name one positive thing any of you , Scott and Harry have ever posted. If it was a positive critique etc I could see the point but all I ever see is just petty vitriol regardless if correct or not and you are not consistent where London government is concerned. Scott and Harry are the worst , however as you are intelligent I would have expected a far more balanced opinion from you.
Malc, I hadn't realised that you were a champion of generosity and balance in your posts? The list of politicians who you admire seems notable mainly for its brevity.
By necessity Nick, not sure many on here could name more than a handful of decent ones at present
Pile of crap. I will never forgive them for introducing the smoking ban.
Best thing ever done.
I think you might mean worst thing ever done. Otherwise your sentence doesn't make any sense.
No.
It helped me stop smoking 15 years ago and as my practice nurse recently said I would not have survived my copd if I had continued smoking
So you get to live longer while the rest of us have to suffer with School Disco Public Houses.
Not a fair trade.
A perfectly fair trade. I used to work in those Public Houses when smoking was permitted. It was a foul atmosphere and the place reeked of stale tobacco.
Before the ban 2/3rds of bar workers had respiratory illnesses caused by other people's smoke.
Frankly, I am amazed that anyone ever starts. If it tastes anything like it smells.....
So you were a barmaid. You could always have paid attention at school and got a job elsewhere.
Johnson wants No Deal as he wants to be a 'wartime' leader who has masses of stuff for his autobiography.
Corbyn wants No Deal because he thinks the chaos will be so bad the Brits will vote him into No. 10.
Johnson wants no deal because it's the most popular option among Tories and likely tory voters. He Hope's he can make it work.
Not sure Johnson actually wants No Deal, but he is stuck with it.
Should Swinson accept in principle a Unity government led by Corbyn? Depends if she prioritises avoiding No Deal over the Lib Dems being the sensible alternative to radical ideologies. Both are reasonable priorities for her, but there is a choice to be made. Ultimately any such unity government depends on Corbyn's buy in.
Think the Johnson team is dialling back a bit on the America First propaganda this week. Suspect they are discovering it's not going down too well. Doesn't mean the policy has been abandoned however. And note also that AF is the first real Brexiteer policy position in the three years since the referendum.
If the Lib Dems were really smart they would vote Corbyn in, wait until he had taken no deal off the table, and then vote him out again.
Then claim the credit for both avoiding no deal and getting rid of Corbyn.
Job done.
Unfortunately for them they are not in any way smart though.
If the Lib Dems do anything to make Corbyn PM, they can forget about my vote.
I have been impressed with Jo Swinson who does seem to have a good political antenna.
Supporting Corbyn would stop the Lib Dems progress in all those southern seats they hope to win and would be an enormous gift to Boris
After yesterday's debacle, Jo Swinson, nice person she undoubtedly is, now holds a position way above her capabilities. At least, 9 other Lib Dems are probably better qualified.
Tom Brake rejected any idea the Lib Dems would support Corbyn earlier today.
You may not like the message but Corbyn is toxic to so many
So the party which currently is equivalent of a rounding error decides who will become PM ? Is that correct ? No Deal is Nailed On, I'm afraid.
I'm no even sure we will get a winning VoNC at this rate, as too many MPs would worry Corbyn would win the subsequent election. They would rather No Deal.
Which means their commitment to Remain or opposition to No Deal Brexit was just a show. The CHUK 5 would not even VoNC Johnson. I know why. They can see the dole queue after a GE.
There simply aren't the numbers for that (never mind the problems of mandate).
Any hypothetical coalition of the unwilling has a very limited shared prospectus.
Yep. This is an August story that is running away with itself.
There aren't the votes for a GNU. I just don't see this generation of politicians putting the country before themselves and their tribal politics.
It's giving some great betting opportunities. Currently I'm effectively on 1/5 that the next Prime Minister is not going to be Kenneth Clarke, Nigel Farage, Jo Swinson or Keir Starmer. I'm comfortable with that and expect I shall be adding to that list when the prices for other freshly fancied GNU leaders come in.
She seems to be rejecting an offer on the grounds that it is not serious when the only way to tell if it IS serious is to accept it.
Why would Jeremy Corbyn want to be a figurehead PM with no power except to ask for an extension? However if he can get the numbers from disaffected Labour MPs and Tory MPs then Swinson would no doubt join in. But we all know that he doesn't have the numbers.
Pile of crap. I will never forgive them for introducing the smoking ban.
Best thing ever done.
I think you might mean worst thing ever done. Otherwise your sentence doesn't make any sense.
No.
It helped me stop smoking 15 years ago and as my practice nurse recently said I would not have survived my copd if I had continued smoking
So you get to live longer while the rest of us have to suffer with School Disco Public Houses.
Not a fair trade.
A perfectly fair trade. I used to work in those Public Houses when smoking was permitted. It was a foul atmosphere and the place reeked of stale tobacco.
Before the ban 2/3rds of bar workers had respiratory illnesses caused by other people's smoke.
Frankly, I am amazed that anyone ever starts. If it tastes anything like it smells.....
So you were a barmaid. You could always have paid attention at school and got a job elsewhere.
Pile of crap. I will never forgive them for introducing the smoking ban.
Best thing ever done.
I think you might mean worst thing ever done. Otherwise your sentence doesn't make any sense.
No.
It helped me stop smoking 15 years ago and as my practice nurse recently said I would not have survived my copd if I had continued smoking
So you get to live longer while the rest of us have to suffer with School Disco Public Houses.
Not a fair trade.
A perfectly fair trade. I used to work in those Public Houses when smoking was permitted. It was a foul atmosphere and the place reeked of stale tobacco.
Before the ban 2/3rds of bar workers had respiratory illnesses caused by other people's smoke.
Frankly, I am amazed that anyone ever starts. If it tastes anything like it smells.....
So you were a barmaid. You could always have paid attention at school and got a job elsewhere.
I did.
Well done - can you let us smoke in peace then in our much loved public houses.
All this talk of PM Corbyn, Clarke or Harman smacks of a very Britih coup. Johnson is the legitimate PM and he has a mandate from the British electorate. He would be perfectly entitled to defend his position in any way he sees fit. There is absolutely no mileage in a second referendum, a revocation of A50 or an exhumation of Mrs May's deal.
Mr Johnson's rhetoric has ensured the only game in town is No Deal. His star will rise or fall on the aftermath.
Pile of crap. I will never forgive them for introducing the smoking ban.
Best thing ever done.
I think you might mean worst thing ever done. Otherwise your sentence doesn't make any sense.
No.
It helped me stop smoking 15 years ago and as my practice nurse recently said I would not have survived my copd if I had continued smoking
So you get to live longer while the rest of us have to suffer with School Disco Public Houses.
Not a fair trade.
A perfectly fair trade. I used to work in those Public Houses when smoking was permitted. It was a foul atmosphere and the place reeked of stale tobacco.
Before the ban 2/3rds of bar workers had respiratory illnesses caused by other people's smoke.
Frankly, I am amazed that anyone ever starts. If it tastes anything like it smells.....
So you were a barmaid. You could always have paid attention at school and got a job elsewhere.
Johnson wants No Deal as he wants to be a 'wartime' leader who has masses of stuff for his autobiography.
Corbyn wants No Deal because he thinks the chaos will be so bad the Brits will vote him into No. 10.
Johnson wants no deal because it's the most popular option among Tories and likely tory voters. He Hope's he can make it work.
Not sure Johnson actually wants No Deal, but he is stuck with it.
Should Swinson accept in principle a Unity government led by Corbyn? Depends if she prioritises avoiding No Deal over the Lib Dems being the sensible alternative to radical ideologies. Both are reasonable priorities for her, but there is a choice to be made. Ultimately any such unity government depends on Corbyn's buy in.
Think the Johnson team is dialling back a bit on the America First propaganda this week. Suspect they are discovering it's not going down too well. Doesn't mean the policy has been abandoned however. And note also that AF is the first real Brexiteer policy position in the three years since the referendum.
Are we releasing the ship in Gibraltar ? Our have our masters stopped us ?
A tory or disaffected labour figure probably needed to get the necessary tory votes. But suggesting brexit night still happen as Clarke has means most labour wont back him so not viable. So would any labour figure get some Tories on board or is that their excuse for letting no deal happen.
If the Lib Dems were really smart they would vote Corbyn in, wait until he had taken no deal off the table, and then vote him out again.
Then claim the credit for both avoiding no deal and getting rid of Corbyn.
Job done.
Unfortunately for them they are not in any way smart though.
If the Lib Dems do anything to make Corbyn PM, they can forget about my vote.
I have been impressed with Jo Swinson who does seem to have a good political antenna.
Supporting Corbyn would stop the Lib Dems progress in all those southern seats they hope to win and would be an enormous gift to Boris
After yesterday's debacle, Jo Swinson, nice person she undoubtedly is, now holds a position way above her capabilities. At least, 9 other Lib Dems are probably better qualified.
Tom Brake rejected any idea the Lib Dems would support Corbyn earlier today.
You may not like the message but Corbyn is toxic to so many
So the party which currently is equivalent of a rounding error decides who will become PM ? Is that correct ? No Deal is Nailed On, I'm afraid.
I'm no even sure we will get a winning VoNC at this rate, as too many MPs would worry Corbyn would win the subsequent election. They would rather No Deal.
Which means their commitment to Remain or opposition to No Deal Brexit was just a show. The CHUK 5 would not even VoNC Johnson. I know why. They can see the dole queue after a GE.
Pile of crap. I will never forgive them for introducing the smoking ban.
Best thing ever done.
I think you might mean worst thing ever done. Otherwise your sentence doesn't make any sense.
No.
It helped me stop smoking 15 years ago and as my practice nurse recently said I would not have survived my copd if I had continued smoking
So you get to live longer while the rest of us have to suffer with School Disco Public Houses.
Not a fair trade.
A perfectly fair trade. I used to work in those Public Houses when smoking was permitted. It was a foul atmosphere and the place reeked of stale tobacco.
Before the ban 2/3rds of bar workers had respiratory illnesses caused by other people's smoke.
Frankly, I am amazed that anyone ever starts. If it tastes anything like it smells.....
So you were a barmaid. You could always have paid attention at school and got a job elsewhere.
I did.
Well done - can you let us smoke in peace then in our much loved public houses.
Times have changed and that ship has sailed. Good riddance .
Pile of crap. I will never forgive them for introducing the smoking ban.
Best thing ever done.
I think you might mean worst thing ever done. Otherwise your sentence doesn't make any sense.
No.
It helped me stop smoking 15 years ago and as my practice nurse recently said I would not have survived my copd if I had continued smoking
So you get to live longer while the rest of us have to suffer with School Disco Public Houses.
Not a fair trade.
A perfectly fair trade. I used to work in those Public Houses when smoking was permitted. It was a foul atmosphere and the place reeked of stale tobacco.
Before the ban 2/3rds of bar workers had respiratory illnesses caused by other people's smoke.
Frankly, I am amazed that anyone ever starts. If it tastes anything like it smells.....
So you were a barmaid. You could always have paid attention at school and got a job elsewhere.
I did.
Well done - can you let us smoke in peace then in our much loved public houses.
Times have changed and that ship has sailed. Good riddance .
First thing to be changed back once I'm World King
Pile of crap. I will never forgive them for introducing the smoking ban.
Best thing ever done.
I think you might mean worst thing ever done. Otherwise your sentence doesn't make any sense.
No.
It helped me stop smoking 15 years ago and as my practice nurse recently said I would not have survived my copd if I had continued smoking
So you get to live longer while the rest of us have to suffer with School Disco Public Houses.
Not a fair trade.
A perfectly fair trade. I used to work in those Public Houses when smoking was permitted. It was a foul atmosphere and the place reeked of stale tobacco.
Before the ban 2/3rds of bar workers had respiratory illnesses caused by other people's smoke.
Frankly, I am amazed that anyone ever starts. If it tastes anything like it smells.....
The smoking ban certainly has accelerated pub closures. Not something I mind, but I wouldn't have had a problem with smoking rooms in pubs etc provided there were no bars in them so staff were not exposed and there was adequate ventilation.
Smoking rates are inversely related to social class, so a smoking ban effects poorer people disproportionately, excluding and marginalising them.
I am as keen as anyone to cut smoking rates, but not by coercion.
Pile of crap. I will never forgive them for introducing the smoking ban.
Best thing ever done.
I think you might mean worst thing ever done. Otherwise your sentence doesn't make any sense.
No.
It helped me stop smoking 15 years ago smoking
So you get to live longer while the rest of us have to suffer with School Disco Public Houses.
Not a fair trade.
A perfectly fair trade. I used to work in those Public Houses when smoking was permitted. It was a foul atmosphere and the place reeked of stale tobacco.
Before the ban 2/3rds of bar workers had respiratory illnesses caused by other people's smoke.
Frankly, I am amazed that anyone ever starts. If it tastes anything like it smells.....
So you were a barmaid. You could always have paid attention at school and got a job elsewhere.
I did.
Well done - can you let us smoke in peace then in our much loved public houses.
Times have changed and that ship has sailed. Good riddance .
First thing to be changed back once I'm World King
Pile of crap. I will never forgive them for introducing the smoking ban.
Best thing ever done.
I think you might mean worst thing ever done. Otherwise your sentence doesn't make any sense.
No.
It helped me stop smoking 15 years ago and as my practice nurse recently said I would not have survived my copd if I had continued smoking
So you get to live longer while the rest of us have to suffer with School Disco Public Houses.
Not a fair trade.
A perfectly fair trade. I used to work in those Public Houses when smoking was permitted. It was a foul atmosphere and the place reeked of stale tobacco.
Before the ban 2/3rds of bar workers had respiratory illnesses caused by other people's smoke.
Frankly, I am amazed that anyone ever starts. If it tastes anything like it smells.....
So you were a barmaid. You could always have paid attention at school and got a job elsewhere.
I did.
Well done - can you let us smoke in peace then in our much loved public houses.
No - because other people work there and I remember what it was like when I did. I see no reason why your personal habits should be allowed to kill other people.
My grandmother was a non-smoker. She died of multiple smoker's cancers because she lived with my grandfather who did smoke.
Smoking causes health issues for people other than the smoker. If you want to destroy your lungs that is up to you, but you have no right to inflict it on other people.
I smoke, and I don't want to smoke inside and annoy others. Edit. Thinking about it, I don't want others annoying me by smoking around me when I am not.
Pile of crap. I will never forgive them for introducing the smoking ban.
Best thing ever done.
I think you might mean worst thing ever done. Otherwise your sentence doesn't make any sense.
No.
It helped me stop smoking 15 years ago and as my practice nurse recently said I would not have survived my copd if I had continued smoking
So you get to live longer while the rest of us have to suffer with School Disco Public Houses.
Not a fair trade.
A perfectly fair trade. I used to work in those Public Houses when smoking was permitted. It was a foul atmosphere and the place reeked of stale tobacco.
Before the ban 2/3rds of bar workers had respiratory illnesses caused by other people's smoke.
Frankly, I am amazed that anyone ever starts. If it tastes anything like it smells.....
So you were a barmaid. You could always have paid attention at school and got a job elsewhere.
Hmmmm. But then she wouldn't have been able to stay at home and clean behind the fridge, Godfrey......
Pile of crap. I will never forgive them for introducing the smoking ban.
Best thing ever done.
I think you might mean worst thing ever done. Otherwise your sentence doesn't make any sense.
No.
It helped me stop smoking 15 years ago and as my practice nurse recently said I would not have survived my copd if I had continued smoking
So you get to live longer while the rest of us have to suffer with School Disco Public Houses.
Not a fair trade.
A perfectly fair trade. I used to work in those Public Houses when smoking was permitted. It was a foul atmosphere and the place reeked of stale tobacco.
Before the ban 2/3rds of bar workers had respiratory illnesses caused by other people's smoke.
Frankly, I am amazed that anyone ever starts. If it tastes anything like it smells.....
The smoking ban certainly has accelerated pub closures. Not something I mind, but I wouldn't have had a problem with smoking rooms in pubs etc provided there were no bars in them so staff were not exposed and there was adequate ventilation.
Smoking rates are inversely related to social class, so a smoking ban effects poorer people disproportionately, excluding and marginalising them.
I am as keen as anyone to cut smoking rates, but not by coercion.
At what point does encouragement be one coercion, I'm sure people will disagree.
Pile of crap. I will never forgive them for introducing the smoking ban.
Best thing ever done.
I think you might mean worst thing ever done. Otherwise your sentence doesn't make any sense.
No.
It helped me stop smoking 15 years ago smoking
So you get to live longer while the rest of us have to suffer with School Disco Public Houses.
Not a fair trade.
A perfectly fair trade. I used to work in those Public Houses when smoking was permitted. It was a foul atmosphere and the place reeked of stale tobacco.
Before the ban 2/3rds of bar workers had respiratory illnesses caused by other people's smoke.
Frankly, I am amazed that anyone ever starts. If it tastes anything like it smells.....
So you were a barmaid. You could always have paid attention at school and got a job elsewhere.
I did.
Well done - can you let us smoke in peace then in our much loved public houses.
Times have changed and that ship has sailed. Good riddance .
First thing to be changed back once I'm World King
Pile of crap. I will never forgive them for introducing the smoking ban.
Best thing ever done.
I think you might mean worst thing ever done. Otherwise your sentence doesn't make any sense.
No.
It helped me stop smoking 15 years ago and as my practice nurse recently said I would not have survived my copd if I had continued smoking
So you get to live longer while the rest of us have to suffer with School Disco Public Houses.
Not a fair trade.
A perfectly fair trade. I used to work in those Public Houses when smoking was permitted. It was a foul atmosphere and the place reeked of stale tobacco.
Before the ban 2/3rds of bar workers had respiratory illnesses caused by other people's smoke.
Frankly, I am amazed that anyone ever starts. If it tastes anything like it smells.....
So you were a barmaid. You could always have paid attention at school and got a job elsewhere.
I did.
Well done - can you let us smoke in peace then in our much loved public houses.
No - because other people work there and I remember what it was like when I did. I see no reason why your personal habits should be allowed to kill other people.
My grandmother was a non-smoker. She died of multiple smoker's cancers because she lived with my grandfather who did smoke.
Smoking causes health issues for people other than the smoker. If you want to destroy your lungs that is up to you, but you have no right to inflict it on other people.
Pile of crap. I will never forgive them for introducing the smoking ban.
Best thing ever done.
I think you might mean worst thing ever done. Otherwise your sentence doesn't make any sense.
No.
It helped me stop smoking 15 years ago and as my practice nurse recently said I would not have survived my copd if I had continued smoking
So you get to live longer while the rest of us have to suffer with School Disco Public Houses.
Not a fair trade.
A perfectly fair trade. I used to work in those Public Houses when smoking was permitted. It was a foul atmosphere and the place reeked of stale tobacco.
Before the ban 2/3rds of bar workers had respiratory illnesses caused by other people's smoke.
Frankly, I am amazed that anyone ever starts. If it tastes anything like it smells.....
So you were a barmaid. You could always have paid attention at school and got a job elsewhere.
I did.
Well done - can you let us smoke in peace then in our much loved public houses.
No - because other people work there and I remember what it was like when I did. I see no reason why your personal habits should be allowed to kill other people.
My grandmother was a non-smoker. She died of multiple smoker's cancers because she lived with my grandfather who did smoke.
Smoking causes health issues for people other than the smoker. If you want to destroy your lungs that is up to you, but you have no right to inflict it on other people.
That is why it is banned.
Just wrong.
Pubs are for people to Drink and Smoke in.
Just because one of them is currently banned doesn't mean it won't be unbanned in the future.
In fact there would be a lot more shenanigans in pubs once I'm in charge.
All this talk of PM Corbyn, Clarke or Harman smacks of a very Britih coup. Johnson is the legitimate PM and he has a mandate from the British electorate. He would be perfectly entitled to defend his position in any way he sees fit. There is absolutely no mileage in a second referendum, a revocation of A50 or an exhumation of Mrs May's deal.
Mr Johnson's rhetoric has ensured the only game in town is No Deal. His star will rise or fall on the aftermath.
Boris's rhetoric was that "no deal" was a million to one chance; this was just a negotiating ploy to force a better deal from the EU (although better in what way was never vouchsafed).
Boris has no mandate for "no deal" whether you look at his leadership campaign, the referendum campaign he led, or the Conservative Party's 2017 manifesto.
I smoke, and I don't want to smoke inside and annoy others. Edit. Thinking about it, I don't want others annoying me by smoking around me when I am not.
Pile of crap. I will never forgive them for introducing the smoking ban.
Best thing ever done.
I think you might mean worst thing ever done. Otherwise your sentence doesn't make any sense.
No.
It helped me stop smoking 15 years ago and as my practice nurse recently said I would not have survived my copd if I had continued smoking
So you get to live longer while the rest of us have to suffer with School Disco Public Houses.
Not a fair trade.
A perfectly fair trade. I used to work in those Public Houses when smoking was permitted. It was a foul atmosphere and the place reeked of stale tobacco.
Before the ban 2/3rds of bar workers had respiratory illnesses caused by other people's smoke.
Frankly, I am amazed that anyone ever starts. If it tastes anything like it smells.....
So you were a barmaid. You could always have paid attention at school and got a job elsewhere.
Hmmmm. But then she wouldn't have been able to stay at home and clean behind the fridge, Godfrey......
Which reminds me - steak & chips for tea. I had best get started
Pile of crap. I will never forgive them for introducing the smoking ban.
Best thing ever done.
I think you might mean worst thing ever done. Otherwise your sentence doesn't make any sense.
No.
It helped me stop smoking 15 years ago and as my practice nurse recently said I would not have survived my copd if I had continued smoking
So you get to live longer while the rest of us have to suffer with School Disco Public Houses.
Not a fair trade.
A perfectly fair trade. I used to work in those Public Houses when smoking was permitted. It was a foul atmosphere and the place reeked of stale tobacco.
Before the ban 2/3rds of bar workers had respiratory illnesses caused by other people's smoke.
Frankly, I am amazed that anyone ever starts. If it tastes anything like it smells.....
The smoking ban certainly has accelerated pub closures. Not something I mind, but I wouldn't have had a problem with smoking rooms in pubs etc provided there were no bars in them so staff were not exposed and there was adequate ventilation.
Smoking rates are inversely related to social class, so a smoking ban effects poorer people disproportionately, excluding and marginalising them.
I am as keen as anyone to cut smoking rates, but not by coercion.
I think e-cigarettes are solving this issue. Smokers can enjoy them, and they don't cause any problems for people who don't smoke.
Johnson wants No Deal as he wants to be a 'wartime' leader who has masses of stuff for his autobiography.
Corbyn wants No Deal because he thinks the chaos will be so bad the Brits will vote him into No. 10.
Johnson wants no deal because it's the most popular option among Tories and likely tory voters. He Hope's he can make it work.
Not sure Johnson actually wants No Deal, but he is stuck with it.
Should Swinson accept in principle a Unity government led by Corbyn? Depends if she prioritises avoiding No Deal over the Lib Dems being the sensible alternative to radical ideologies. Both are reasonable priorities for her, but there is a choice to be made. Ultimately any such unity government depends on Corbyn's buy in.
Think the Johnson team is dialling back a bit on the America First propaganda this week. Suspect they are discovering it's not going down too well. Doesn't mean the policy has been abandoned however. And note also that AF is the first real Brexiteer policy position in the three years since the referendum.
Are we releasing the ship in Gibraltar ? Our have our masters stopped us ?
A better question is, what has Iran promised in return? Expect a diplomatic triumph for Boris in next week's headlines.
Why would Jeremy Corbyn want to be a figurehead PM with no power except to ask for an extension? However if he can get the numbers from disaffected Labour MPs and Tory MPs then Swinson would no doubt join in. But we all know that he doesn't have the numbers.
What Corbyn wants is an election, I would think. And before rather than after Brexit so he can benefit from Remainer tactical voting.
TBH, I think all this 'VONC BoJo and then VOC in a GNU under Corbyn or Grandee' is, as somebody says down thread, a silly season story.
I don't see any of it transpiring. I see Johnson at the last minute bottling it and agreeing an extension for fresh talks with the EU.
I think Elizabeth Warren's attempt to be trendy by posting a video featuring herself awkwardly drinking beer at home with her husband was a major error. I can see Trump playing it on big screens at his rallies if she's the candidate.
Pile of crap. I will never forgive them for introducing the smoking ban.
Bastard SLab, eh?
Think the Smoking ban was SNP but happy to be corrected. Time to shut that shitshow of a parliament down.
Your knowledge of Scotpol never ceases to amaze me.
So I don't like watch Nicola on a Thursday. If anything that makes me more a true Scot than you.
True Scot or no, I'd think if you're going to have strong opinions about stuff you should have a clue about that stuff, else folk will just think you're a diddy.
As it happens I thought at the time they could have had some form of licensing for bars that wanted to keep smoking, employ smokers as staff etc. However the unending whine from libertarian smokers has since disabused me of that notion.
Pile of crap. I will never forgive them for introducing the smoking ban.
Best thing ever done.
I think you might mean worst thing ever done. Otherwise your sentence doesn't make any sense.
No.
It helped me stop smoking 15 years ago and as my practice nurse recently said I would not have survived my copd if I had continued smoking
So you get to live longer while the rest of us have to suffer with School Disco Public Houses.
Not a fair trade.
A perfectly fair trade. I used to work in those Public Houses when smoking was permitted. It was a foul atmosphere and the place reeked of stale tobacco.
Before the ban 2/3rds of bar workers had respiratory illnesses caused by other people's smoke.
Frankly, I am amazed that anyone ever starts. If it tastes anything like it smells.....
The smoking ban certainly has accelerated pub closures. Not something I mind, but I wouldn't have had a problem with smoking rooms in pubs etc provided there were no bars in them so staff were not exposed and there was adequate ventilation.
Smoking rates are inversely related to social class, so a smoking ban effects poorer people disproportionately, excluding and marginalising them.
I am as keen as anyone to cut smoking rates, but not by coercion.
I think e-cigarettes are solving this issue. Smokers can enjoy them, and they don't cause any problems for people who don't smoke.
Yeah cus liquid in your lungs are so much better. Vapor-fans don't know what's gonna hit them in 5/10 years time.
Pile of crap. I will never forgive them for introducing the smoking ban.
Best thing ever done.
I think you might mean worst thing ever done. Otherwise your sentence doesn't make any sense.
No.
It helped me stop smoking 15 years ago and as my practice nurse recently said I would not have survived my copd if I had continued smoking
So you get to live longer while the rest of us have to suffer with School Disco Public Houses.
Not a fair trade.
A perfectly fair trade. I used to work in those Public Houses when smoking was permitted. It was a foul atmosphere and the place reeked of stale tobacco.
Before the ban 2/3rds of bar workers had respiratory illnesses caused by other people's smoke.
Frankly, I am amazed that anyone ever starts. If it tastes anything like it smells.....
So you were a barmaid. You could always have paid attention at school and got a job elsewhere.
Hmmmm. But then she wouldn't have been able to stay at home and clean behind the fridge, Godfrey......
Which reminds me - steak & chips for tea. I had best get started
Pop the kettle on love, while the men talk politics
Pile of crap. I will never forgive them for introducing the smoking ban.
Best thing ever done.
I think you might mean worst thing ever done. Otherwise your sentence doesn't make any sense.
No.
It helped me stop smoking 15 years ago and as my practice nurse recently said I would not have survived my copd if I had continued smoking
So you get to live longer while the rest of us have to suffer with School Disco Public Houses.
Not a fair trade.
A perfectly fair trade. I used to work in those Public Houses when smoking was permitted. It was a foul atmosphere and the place reeked of stale tobacco.
Before the ban 2/3rds of bar workers had respiratory illnesses caused by other people's smoke.
Frankly, I am amazed that anyone ever starts. If it tastes anything like it smells.....
The smoking ban certainly has accelerated pub closures. Not something I mind, but I wouldn't have had a problem with smoking rooms in pubs etc provided there were no bars in them so staff were not exposed and there was adequate ventilation.
Smoking rates are inversely related to social class, so a smoking ban effects poorer people disproportionately, excluding and marginalising them.
I am as keen as anyone to cut smoking rates, but not by coercion.
I think e-cigarettes are solving this issue. Smokers can enjoy them, and they don't cause any problems for people who don't smoke.
Pile of crap. I will never forgive them for introducing the smoking ban.
Bastard SLab, eh?
Think the Smoking ban was SNP but happy to be corrected. Time to shut that shitshow of a parliament down.
Your knowledge of Scotpol never ceases to amaze me.
So I don't like watch Nicola on a Thursday. If anything that makes me more a true Scot than you.
True Scot or no, I'd think if you're going to have strong opinions about stuff you should have a clue about that stuff, else folk will just think you're a diddy.
As it happens I thought at the time they could have had some form of licensing for bars that wanted to keep smoking, employ smokers as staff etc. However the unending whine from libertarian smokers has since disabused me of that notion.
Well I was living in England at the time so that's my excuse for my ignorance.
If the Lib Dems do anything to make Corbyn PM, they can forget about my vote.
PM but for a matter of weeks and able to do only 2 things.
Agree an extension to avoid 31 Oct No Deal - and call an election.
You prefer BoJo and National Populism and Hard Brexit to that?
I don’t like any of the choices on offer.
I think it is deluded to think that a PM’s powers can be limited in the way that the “Corbyn for caretaker PM” crowd think. Once you are PM you have considerable powers and responsibilities. I don’t trust Corbyn one bit. I don’t trust Johnson either.
I see no good options. If Clarke as PM to get an Art. 50 extension while we work out what to do - deal on a different basis, GE or referendum - was an option I’d take that. Or Harman. Or Milliband.
Johnson, Cumming, Corbyn, Milne, Murray: all equally ghastly and not fit to be anywhere near power.
Pile of crap. I will never forgive them for introducing the smoking ban.
Best thing ever done.
I think you might mean worst thing ever done. Otherwise your sentence doesn't make any sense.
No.
It helped me stop smoking 15 years ago and as my practice nurse recently said I would not have survived my copd if I had continued smoking
So you get to live longer while the rest of us have to suffer with School Disco Public Houses.
Not a fair trade.
A perfectly fair trade. I used to work in those Public Houses when smoking was permitted. It was a foul atmosphere and the place reeked of stale tobacco.
Before the ban 2/3rds of bar workers had respiratory illnesses caused by other people's smoke.
Frankly, I am amazed that anyone ever starts. If it tastes anything like it smells.....
The smoking ban certainly has accelerated pub closures. Not something I mind, but I wouldn't have had a problem with smoking rooms in pubs etc provided there were no bars in them so staff were not exposed and there was adequate ventilation.
Smoking rates are inversely related to social class, so a smoking ban effects poorer people disproportionately, excluding and marginalising them.
I am as keen as anyone to cut smoking rates, but not by coercion.
I think e-cigarettes are solving this issue. Smokers can enjoy them, and they don't cause any problems for people who don't smoke.
Yeah cus liquid in your lungs are so much better. Vapor-fans don't know what's gonna hit them in 5/10 years time.
Try to sound less pleased about it. Also, grow up. Cancer is much, much less of a joke than you seem to think.
And this is who Swinson picks over somebody whose policy is a second referendum.
In case you hadn't noticed, Corbyn's policy is not a second referendum. It is a general election, with the possibility of a second referendum after that.
Pile of crap. I will never forgive them for introducing the smoking ban.
Best thing ever done.
I think you might mean worst thing ever done. Otherwise your sentence doesn't make any sense.
No.
It helped me stop smoking 15 years ago and as my practice nurse recently said I would not have survived my copd if I had continued smoking
So you get to live longer while the rest of us have to suffer with School Disco Public Houses.
Not a fair trade.
A perfectly fair trade. I used to work in those Public Houses when smoking was permitted. It was a foul atmosphere and the place reeked of stale tobacco.
Before the ban 2/3rds of bar workers had respiratory illnesses caused by other people's smoke.
Frankly, I am amazed that anyone ever starts. If it tastes anything like it smells.....
The smoking ban certainly has accelerated pub closures. Not something I mind, but I wouldn't have had a problem with smoking rooms in pubs etc provided there were no bars in them so staff were not exposed and there was adequate ventilation.
Smoking rates are inversely related to social class, so a smoking ban effects poorer people disproportionately, excluding and marginalising them.
I am as keen as anyone to cut smoking rates, but not by coercion.
I think e-cigarettes are solving this issue. Smokers can enjoy them, and they don't cause any problems for people who don't smoke.
Yeah cus liquid in your lungs are so much better. Vapor-fans don't know what's gonna hit them in 5/10 years time.
Try to sound less pleased about it. Also, grow up. Cancer is much, much less of a joke than you seem to think.
Pile of crap. I will never forgive them for introducing the smoking ban.
Best thing ever done.
I think you might mean worst thing ever done. Otherwise your sentence doesn't make any sense.
No.
It helped me stop smoking 15 years ago and as my practice nurse recently said I would not have survived my copd if I had continued smoking
So you get to live longer while the rest of us have to suffer with School Disco Public Houses.
Not a fair trade.
A perfectly fair trade. I used to work in those Public Houses when smoking was permitted. It was a foul atmosphere and the place reeked of stale tobacco.
Before the ban 2/3rds of bar workers had respiratory illnesses caused by other people's smoke.
Frankly, I am amazed that anyone ever starts. If it tastes anything like it smells.....
The smoking ban certainly has accelerated pub closures. Not something I mind, but I wouldn't have had a problem with smoking rooms in pubs etc provided there were no bars in them so staff were not exposed and there was adequate ventilation.
Smoking rates are inversely related to social class, so a smoking ban effects poorer people disproportionately, excluding and marginalising them.
I am as keen as anyone to cut smoking rates, but not by coercion.
I think e-cigarettes are solving this issue. Smokers can enjoy them, and they don't cause any problems for people who don't smoke.
But they're often banned too!
Sure, the objection is aesthetic, rather than medical. I think that a pub owner should be entitled to ban them, on aesthetic grounds, but there is no reason why the law should intervene.
Pile of crap. I will never forgive them for introducing the smoking ban.
Best thing ever done.
I think you might mean worst thing ever done. Otherwise your sentence doesn't make any sense.
No.
It helped me stop smoking 15 years ago and as my practice nurse recently said I would not have survived my copd if I had continued smoking
So you get to live longer while the rest of us have to suffer with School Disco Public Houses.
Not a fair trade.
A perfectly fair trade. I used to work in those Public Houses when smoking was permitted. It was a foul atmosphere and the place reeked of stale tobacco.
Before the ban 2/3rds of bar workers had respiratory illnesses caused by other people's smoke.
Frankly, I am amazed that anyone ever starts. If it tastes anything like it smells.....
The smoking ban certainly has accelerated pub closures. Not something I mind, but I wouldn't have had a problem with smoking rooms in pubs etc provided there were no bars in them so staff were not exposed and there was adequate ventilation.
Smoking rates are inversely related to social class, so a smoking ban effects poorer people disproportionately, excluding and marginalising them.
I am as keen as anyone to cut smoking rates, but not by coercion.
I think e-cigarettes are solving this issue. Smokers can enjoy them, and they don't cause any problems for people who don't smoke.
Yeah cus liquid in your lungs are so much better. Vapor-fans don't know what's gonna hit them in 5/10 years time.
Try to sound less pleased about it. Also, grow up. Cancer is much, much less of a joke than you seem to think.
Don't blame me - blame the "scientists" that promote them.
Pile of crap. I will never forgive them for introducing the smoking ban.
Bastard SLab, eh?
Think the Smoking ban was SNP but happy to be corrected. Time to shut that shitshow of a parliament down.
Your knowledge of Scotpol never ceases to amaze me.
So I don't like watch Nicola on a Thursday. If anything that makes me more a true Scot than you.
True Scot or no, I'd think if you're going to have strong opinions about stuff you should have a clue about that stuff, else folk will just think you're a diddy.
As it happens I thought at the time they could have had some form of licensing for bars that wanted to keep smoking, employ smokers as staff etc. However the unending whine from libertarian smokers has since disabused me of that notion.
The smoking ban was surprisingly uncontroversial on introduction. Almost everyone accepted it and changed their behaviour. It can be hard to predict what people push back on. I would have expected a lot more resistance against restricting where you smoke
And this is who Swinson picks over somebody whose policy is a second referendum.
In case you hadn't noticed, Corbyn's policy is not a second referendum. It is a general election, with the possibility of a second referendum after that.
There aren't the votes for a second referendum without an election. So yes, his policy is to first get the numbers for a second referendum then have one.
Pile of crap. I will never forgive them for introducing the smoking ban.
Best thing ever done.
I think you might mean worst thing ever done. Otherwise your sentence doesn't make any sense.
No.
It helped me stop smoking 15 years ago and as my practice nurse recently said I would not have survived my copd if I had continued smoking
So you get to live longer while the rest of us have to suffer with School Disco Public Houses.
Not a fair trade.
A perfectly fair trade. I used to work in those Public Houses when smoking was permitted. It was a foul atmosphere and the place reeked of stale tobacco.
Before the ban 2/3rds of bar workers had respiratory illnesses caused by other people's smoke.
Frankly, I am amazed that anyone ever starts. If it tastes anything like it smells.....
So you were a barmaid. You could always have paid attention at school and got a job elsewhere.
Hmmmm. But then she wouldn't have been able to stay at home and clean behind the fridge, Godfrey......
Which reminds me - steak & chips for tea. I had best get started
Pop the kettle on love, while the men talk politics
If the Lib Dems do anything to make Corbyn PM, they can forget about my vote.
PM but for a matter of weeks and able to do only 2 things.
Agree an extension to avoid 31 Oct No Deal - and call an election.
You prefer BoJo and National Populism and Hard Brexit to that?
I don’t like any of the choices on offer.
I think it is deluded to think that a PM’s powers can be limited in the way that the “Corbyn for caretaker PM” crowd think. Once you are PM you have considerable powers and responsibilities. I don’t trust Corbyn one bit. I don’t trust Johnson either.
I see no good options. If Clarke as PM to get an Art. 50 extension while we work out what to do - deal on a different basis, GE or referendum - was an option I’d take that. Or Harman. Or Milliband.
Johnson, Cumming, Corbyn, Milne, Murray: all equally ghastly and not fit to be anywhere near power.
It is Ken Clarke who wants to do what you accuse Corbyn of. Clarke says he wants to run the government for long enough to negotiate a new deal. Corbyn says he will be in and out and in purdah anyway.
I think Elizabeth Warren's attempt to be trendy by posting a video featuring herself awkwardly drinking beer at home with her husband was a major error. I can see Trump playing it on big screens at his rallies if she's the candidate.
And this is who Swinson picks over somebody whose policy is a second referendum.
In case you hadn't noticed, Corbyn's policy is not a second referendum. It is a general election, with the possibility of a second referendum after that.
To be fair, I think any comments on "Corbyn's policy" should be date and time stamped....
And this is who Swinson picks over somebody whose policy is a second referendum.
In case you hadn't noticed, Corbyn's policy is not a second referendum. It is a general election, with the possibility of a second referendum after that.
There aren't the votes for a second referendum without an election. So yes, his policy is to first get the numbers for a second referendum then have one.
His policy is to get Labour into government. Brexit is a second order issue. If supporting Brexit helps Labour to get into power, he will support Brexit. If being ambiguous about it helps Labour, he'll be ambiguous.
So, if you're a Remainer who does not support the radical left, you're buying a pig in a poke by putting Corbyn into power.
If the Lib Dems do anything to make Corbyn PM, they can forget about my vote.
PM but for a matter of weeks and able to do only 2 things.
Agree an extension to avoid 31 Oct No Deal - and call an election.
You prefer BoJo and National Populism and Hard Brexit to that?
I don’t like any of the choices on offer.
I think it is deluded to think that a PM’s powers can be limited in the way that the “Corbyn for caretaker PM” crowd think. Once you are PM you have considerable powers and responsibilities. I don’t trust Corbyn one bit. I don’t trust Johnson either.
I see no good options. If Clarke as PM to get an Art. 50 extension while we work out what to do - deal on a different basis, GE or referendum - was an option I’d take that. Or Harman. Or Milliband.
Johnson, Cumming, Corbyn, Milne, Murray: all equally ghastly and not fit to be anywhere near power.
It is Ken Clarke who wants to do what you accuse Corbyn of. Clarke says he wants to run the government for long enough to negotiate a new deal. Corbyn says he will be in and out and in purdah anyway.
If the Lib Dems do anything to make Corbyn PM, they can forget about my vote.
PM but for a matter of weeks and able to do only 2 things.
Agree an extension to avoid 31 Oct No Deal - and call an election.
You prefer BoJo and National Populism and Hard Brexit to that?
I don’t like any of the choices on offer.
I think it is deluded to think that a PM’s powers can be limited in the way that the “Corbyn for caretaker PM” crowd think. Once you are PM you have considerable powers and responsibilities. I don’t trust Corbyn one bit. I don’t trust Johnson either.
I see no good options. If Clarke as PM to get an Art. 50 extension while we work out what to do - deal on a different basis, GE or referendum - was an option I’d take that. Or Harman. Or Milliband.
Johnson, Cumming, Corbyn, Milne, Murray: all equally ghastly and not fit to be anywhere near power.
And this is who Swinson picks over somebody whose policy is a second referendum.
In case you hadn't noticed, Corbyn's policy is not a second referendum. It is a general election, with the possibility of a second referendum after that.
There aren't the votes for a second referendum without an election. So yes, his policy is to first get the numbers for a second referendum then have one.
His policy is to get Labour into government. Brexit is a second order issue. If supporting Brexit helps Labour to get into power, he will support Brexit. If being ambiguous about it helps Labour, he'll be ambiguous.
So, if you're a Remainer who does not support the radical left, you're buying a pig in a poke by putting Corbyn into power.
And apparently the only other option open to Remainers is Ken Clarke... who has committed himself to delivering Brexit. Glorious news
And this is who Swinson picks over somebody whose policy is a second referendum.
In case you hadn't noticed, Corbyn's policy is not a second referendum. It is a general election, with the possibility of a second referendum after that.
There aren't the votes for a second referendum without an election. So yes, his policy is to first get the numbers for a second referendum then have one.
I appreciate that facts are as alien and unwelcome to you as they are to HYUFD, although at least HYUFD is never personally abusive in the way you and I fear far too many Labour members are. But the fact is his policy is for him to become PM and hold a general election. So no, at this moment a second referendum is not his policy. Indeed, by delaying things he might easily make no deal more likely.
He says that if he wins this election he may hold a referendum. So at that point it may become his policy. Unfortunately, given he is a fluent liar and a notorious twister, nobody trusts him to honour that pledge. And even if they were foolish enough to, his priorities do not match those of the Liberal Democrats and they are perfectly at liberty to say therefore they will not back him.
I can't see Harris as the VP pick to Warren; I think she'd go for a relatively young white Democrat. My money would be on Beto O'Rourke, assuming he's not dropped out to run for the Senate in Texas.
Ah yes - the man who 'stands on tables' and nearly won Texas.
In the spirit of the movie we're casting that has to be Vin Diesel.
Did he nearly win Texas because of his irresistible skills or because of demographics?
Has he shown such skills in this Whitehouse campaign?
His policy is to get Labour into government. Brexit is a second order issue. If supporting Brexit helps Labour to get into power, he will support Brexit. If being ambiguous about it helps Labour, he'll be ambiguous.
So, if you're a Remainer who does not support the radical left, you're buying a pig in a poke by putting Corbyn into power.
Only way to Remain is via Ref2.
Only way to get Ref2 is after a GE and with a PM other than Johnson.
Only feasible PM other than Johnson after a GE is Jeremy Corbyn.
His policy is to get Labour into government. Brexit is a second order issue. If supporting Brexit helps Labour to get into power, he will support Brexit. If being ambiguous about it helps Labour, he'll be ambiguous.
So, if you're a Remainer who does not support the radical left, you're buying a pig in a poke by putting Corbyn into power.
Only way to Remain is via Ref2.
No.
If a government wins a majority at a GE on a Remain platform that is sufficient.
It might be wise to hold a Ref2, but it wouldn't be necessary.
What, you think if he's put in as a hamstrung caretaker to head off No Deal he's going to also squeeze in a quick nationalisation or two and a withdrawal from NATO?
He opposes leaving the EU because it could be bad for us flogging fags to the French not through some misty eyed social ideal. Hence his support for the WA. Loads of remainers are way less hard nosed than him on WHY the EU is probably a good thing for us.
And this is who Swinson picks over somebody whose policy is a second referendum.
In case you hadn't noticed, Corbyn's policy is not a second referendum. It is a general election, with the possibility of a second referendum after that.
There aren't the votes for a second referendum without an election. So yes, his policy is to first get the numbers for a second referendum then have one.
His policy is to get Labour into government. Brexit is a second order issue. If supporting Brexit helps Labour to get into power, he will support Brexit. If being ambiguous about it helps Labour, he'll be ambiguous.
So, if you're a Remainer who does not support the radical left, you're buying a pig in a poke by putting Corbyn into power.
And apparently the only other option open to Remainers is Ken Clarke... who has committed himself to delivering Brexit. Glorious news
Very astute.
1) GNU PM going for soft Brexit gets more Tories and Labour on board.
2) Long A50 extension granted on this basis.
3) Tories implode into factions, Farage the spectre at the feast.
Facile populism on law and order, huge un-costed spending splurges, obsession with media manipulation - the way Boris is mimicking Blair/Campbell's New Labour is quite uncanny.
What, you think if he's put in as a hamstrung caretaker to head off No Deal he's going to also squeeze in a quick nationalisation or two and a withdrawal from NATO?
He only has to be PM for one day to invoke the Civil Contingencies Act.
That's not to say he would. But it does rather undermine claims that as PM he would be constrained by the legislature.
Comments
The trouble is Boris would probably have to resign as leader of the Conservative Party if his government did lose a VONC, so the rest falls.
There aren't the votes for a GNU. I just don't see this generation of politicians putting the country before themselves and their tribal politics.
Plus not sure if 2.68 is nailed on (although like you I keep saying it is - though at last I say it for effect.)
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.156586178
Agree an extension to avoid 31 Oct No Deal - and call an election.
You prefer BoJo and National Populism and Hard Brexit to that?
Boris is promoting a simple message that we are out on the 31st October
The remainers have a divided agenda, fighting each other, and in it all Corbyn is the worst leader of the opposition we have ever seen.
Labour are paying a huge price for sticking with toxic Corbyn. Starmer, Cooper or Benn would have backed a referendum by now and the HOC would have agreed
To remainers, Corbyn has been your worst nightmare
Before the ban 2/3rds of bar workers had respiratory illnesses caused by other people's smoke.
Frankly, I am amazed that anyone ever starts. If it tastes anything like it smells.....
Should Swinson accept in principle a Unity government led by Corbyn? Depends if she prioritises avoiding No Deal over the Lib Dems being the sensible alternative to radical ideologies. Both are reasonable priorities for her, but there is a choice to be made. Ultimately any such unity government depends on Corbyn's buy in.
Think the Johnson team is dialling back a bit on the America First propaganda this week. Suspect they are discovering it's not going down too well. Doesn't mean the policy has been abandoned however. And note also that AF is the first real Brexiteer policy position in the three years since the referendum.
However if he can get the numbers from disaffected Labour MPs and Tory MPs then Swinson would no doubt join in.
But we all know that he doesn't have the numbers.
Mr Johnson's rhetoric has ensured the only game in town is No Deal. His star will rise or fall on the aftermath.
Smoking rates are inversely related to social class, so a smoking ban effects poorer people disproportionately, excluding and marginalising them.
I am as keen as anyone to cut smoking rates, but not by coercion.
My grandmother was a non-smoker. She died of multiple smoker's cancers because she lived with my grandfather who did smoke.
Smoking causes health issues for people other than the smoker. If you want to destroy your lungs that is up to you, but you have no right to inflict it on other people.
That is why it is banned.
Edit. Thinking about it, I don't want others annoying me by smoking around me when I am not.
Lord Protector II
Pubs are for people to Drink and Smoke in.
Just because one of them is currently banned doesn't mean it won't be unbanned in the future.
In fact there would be a lot more shenanigans in pubs once I'm in charge.
Boris has no mandate for "no deal" whether you look at his leadership campaign, the referendum campaign he led, or the Conservative Party's 2017 manifesto.
TBH, I think all this 'VONC BoJo and then VOC in a GNU under Corbyn or Grandee' is, as somebody says down thread, a silly season story.
I don't see any of it transpiring. I see Johnson at the last minute bottling it and agreeing an extension for fresh talks with the EU.
No Brexit and no GE in 2019.
Whole shebang rolls into 2020.
Whatever. It. Takes.
Good for them.
As it happens I thought at the time they could have had some form of licensing for bars that wanted to keep smoking, employ smokers as staff etc. However the unending whine from libertarian smokers has since disabused me of that notion.
runs for cover....
I think it is deluded to think that a PM’s powers can be limited in the way that the “Corbyn for caretaker PM” crowd think. Once you are PM you have considerable powers and responsibilities. I don’t trust Corbyn one bit. I don’t trust Johnson either.
I see no good options. If Clarke as PM to get an Art. 50 extension while we work out what to do - deal on a different basis, GE or referendum - was an option I’d take that. Or Harman. Or Milliband.
Johnson, Cumming, Corbyn, Milne, Murray: all equally ghastly and not fit to be anywhere near power.
https://twitter.com/labourlewis/status/1161947674888876032?s=20
So, if you're a Remainer who does not support the radical left, you're buying a pig in a poke by putting Corbyn into power.
Course you do, sooner or later, have to go cold turkey and kick the nic.
He says that if he wins this election he may hold a referendum. So at that point it may become his policy. Unfortunately, given he is a fluent liar and a notorious twister, nobody trusts him to honour that pledge. And even if they were foolish enough to, his priorities do not match those of the Liberal Democrats and they are perfectly at liberty to say therefore they will not back him.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/16/germany-will-urge-eu-allies-to-hold-firm-on-no-deal-brexit
Has he shown such skills in this Whitehouse campaign?
Only way to get Ref2 is after a GE and with a PM other than Johnson.
Only feasible PM other than Johnson after a GE is Jeremy Corbyn.
Thus the only way to Remain is with PM Corbyn.
Algebra.
If a government wins a majority at a GE on a Remain platform that is sufficient.
It might be wise to hold a Ref2, but it wouldn't be necessary.
He opposes leaving the EU because it could be bad for us flogging fags to the French not through some misty eyed social ideal. Hence his support for the WA.
Loads of remainers are way less hard nosed than him on WHY the EU is probably a good thing for us.
1) GNU PM going for soft Brexit gets more Tories and Labour on board.
2) Long A50 extension granted on this basis.
3) Tories implode into factions, Farage the spectre at the feast.
4) PM Clarke gets VONCed at a convenient moment.
5) General Election.
That's not to say he would. But it does rather undermine claims that as PM he would be constrained by the legislature.