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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This unique feel good moment has the potential to change our politics. The questions are will it and how

Probably the most significant decision by a media organisation in decades was that by Sky to allow yesterday’s Lords final of the cricket World Cup to be broadcast on free to air television. This meant that many more people were sitting gripped to their TVs as Stokes faced that “Super over” that clinched it. This made it a truly national England and Wales event.

Read the full story here

JosiasJessop

First.

Jacob Rees-Worm's comment shows that breeding and good clothes don't automatically give you class.

Sandpit

What an awesome day of sport that was!

First country to win world cups in football, rugby and cricket, plus the longest Wimbledon final ever and a fantastic Grand Prix from silverstone watched by nearly 150,000 paying spectators. Well done to all those involved, especially those on the receiving end of the close results (which I probably wouldn’t have said if it had been Australia or India!).

There’s definitely a story to be told about how that last-minute TV deal came about, a good task for a journo today.

Back to life with a bump and a hangover this morning.

CarlottaVance

Second. And I wished I shared OGH optimism. But Trump has just let his racist mask slip and will double down rather than apologise and shortly the Tories and us will be lumbered with an incompetent for PM. Good to see Mrs May enjoying the cricket. I suspect history will be kinder to her than her successor.

DecrepitJohnL

OT I've just been looking at Britain's National Cyber Security Strategy 2016-2021.

You can download it from the gov.uk site, if you are interested:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-cyber-security-strategy-2016-to-2021

But look at the foreign language editions: Arabic, Brazilian Portuguese, Chinese, French, Russian and Spanish.

Has there ever been such a bizzare range of languages? Why not German? Why Brazilian Portuguese but Spanish Spanish?

Why not stick to English? Or English and Welsh? Hold on, there's no Welsh edition!

Did we make a translation for each of the major nation state threats: Russian, Chinese, Arabic, except Arabic is not the national language of Iran, and what about North Korea?

Anyway, back to the sport. Poor old Lewis Hamilton: knocked off all the front pages despite winning his sixth British Grand Prix (as I told MD, Hamilton always wins).

CarlottaVance

It was good that Theresa May was there at Lords to enjoy something in the final ten days of her troubled Premiership. At least her presence was genuine. She is a long-standing cricket fan.

https://twitter.com/EssexCanning/status/1150420685371641857

alex.

CarlottaVance said:

Second. And I wished I shared OGH optimism. But Trump has just let his racist mask slip and will double down rather than apologise and shortly the Tories and us will be lumbered with an incompetent for PM. Good to see Mrs May enjoying the cricket. I suspect history will be kinder to her than her successor.

Indeed. It is worth noting that Johnson supporters argue being persona non grata with key allies is a resigning matter for an ambassador, but apparently isn’t of relevance for a Prime Minister. A no deal under May would have been bad, but a no deal under Johnson will undoubtedly be worse because EU leaders will take actions solely to protect their own electorates and any attempt to make it work for all parties will be poisoned by the hatred they generally share for Johnson. There will be no goodwill under that relationship.

CarlottaVance

Really NYT?

"Racial" not "Racist"?

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1150619778853289984

Viceroy

The previous thread on our democracy under threat made me laugh. Under threat, yeah like when 17 million people voted to Leave after being told by all politicians they would respect the result - 3 years later they're calling for us to vote again. Get stuffed.

I was originally uneasy about prorogation, but totally support it now - especially after finding out that the disgraced former PM Sir John Major did the same. You could say he had curry all over his face this weekend when that brazen hypocrisy was pointed out.

Gallowgate

Viceroy said:

The previous thread on our democracy under threat made me laugh. Under threat, yeah like when 17 million people voted to Leave after being told by all politicians they would respect the result - 3 years later they're calling for us to vote again. Get stuffed.

I was originally uneasy about prorogation, but totally support it now - especially after finding out that the disgraced former PM Sir John Major did the same. You could say he had curry all over his face this weekend when that brazen hypocrisy was pointed out.

Yawn.

Viceroy

Gallowgate said:

Viceroy said:

The previous thread on our democracy under threat made me laugh. Under threat, yeah like when 17 million people voted to Leave after being told by all politicians they would respect the result - 3 years later they're calling for us to vote again. Get stuffed.

I was originally uneasy about prorogation, but totally support it now - especially after finding out that the disgraced former PM Sir John Major did the same. You could say he had curry all over his face this weekend when that brazen hypocrisy was pointed out.

Yawn.

You lot have no idea how little impact you have out there in the country, which is why you lost the referendum in the first place and haven't shifted opinion. Echo chamber articles.

But carry on babbling to yourselves about crackpot Russian conspiracies, court cases, parliamentary tricks. We're leaving one way or another.

Gallowgate

Viceroy said:

Gallowgate said:

Viceroy said:

The previous thread on our democracy under threat made me laugh. Under threat, yeah like when 17 million people voted to Leave after being told by all politicians they would respect the result - 3 years later they're calling for us to vote again. Get stuffed.

I was originally uneasy about prorogation, but totally support it now - especially after finding out that the disgraced former PM Sir John Major did the same. You could say he had curry all over his face this weekend when that brazen hypocrisy was pointed out.

Yawn.

You lot have no idea how little impact you have out there in the country, which is why you lost the referendum in the first place and haven't shifted opinion. Echo chamber articles.

But carry on babbling to yourselves about crackpot Russian conspiracies, court cases, parliamentary tricks. We're leaving one way or another.

Who’s we? You f*cked off to Spain.

alex.

Viceroy said:

The previous thread on our democracy under threat made me laugh. Under threat, yeah like when 17 million people voted to Leave after being told by all politicians they would respect the result - 3 years later they're calling for us to vote again. Get stuffed.

I was originally uneasy about prorogation, but totally support it now - especially after finding out that the disgraced former PM Sir John Major did the same. You could say he had curry all over his face this weekend when that brazen hypocrisy was pointed out.

Major didn’t prorogue Parliament as a tactical device. He called a General Election. And anyway given the outcome, I hardly think it is a prospect that Johnson would want to look upon favourably!

Sandpit

Viceroy said:

The previous thread on our democracy under threat made me laugh. Under threat, yeah like when 17 million people voted to Leave after being told by all politicians they would respect the result - 3 years later they're calling for us to vote again. Get stuffed.

I was originally uneasy about prorogation, but totally support it now - especially after finding out that the disgraced former PM Sir John Major did the same. You could say he had curry all over his face this weekend when that brazen hypocrisy was pointed out.

Currie, shurely?

AlastairMeeks

Viceroy said:

The previous thread on our democracy under threat made me laugh. Under threat, yeah like when 17 million people voted to Leave after being told by all politicians they would respect the result - 3 years later they're calling for us to vote again. Get stuffed.

I was originally uneasy about prorogation, but totally support it now - especially after finding out that the disgraced former PM Sir John Major did the same. You could say he had curry all over his face this weekend when that brazen hypocrisy was pointed out.

You either support democracy or undermine it. You have chosen to undermine it.

tlg86

JRM's Tweet was silly. But the responses are equally stupid.

Morgan
Stokes
Archer
Roy

They are all English. And saying that they aren't is not clever.

AlastairMeeks

CarlottaVance said:

Second. And I wished I shared OGH optimism. But Trump has just let his racist mask slip and will double down rather than apologise and shortly the Tories and us will be lumbered with an incompetent for PM. Good to see Mrs May enjoying the cricket. I suspect history will be kinder to her than her successor.

Theresa May is comfortably the worst Prime Minister of my lifetime. And yet you may be right with your final assertion.

CarlottaVance

AlastairMeeks said:

CarlottaVance said:

Second. And I wished I shared OGH optimism. But Trump has just let his racist mask slip and will double down rather than apologise and shortly the Tories and us will be lumbered with an incompetent for PM. Good to see Mrs May enjoying the cricket. I suspect history will be kinder to her than her successor.

Theresa May is comfortably the worst Prime Minister of my lifetime. And yet you may be right with your final assertion.

Worse than Brown? At least she knew what she wanted to do with the job once she got it, even if very little of it got done because of you know what.

CarlottaVance

alex. said:

Viceroy said:

The previous thread on our democracy under threat made me laugh. Under threat, yeah like when 17 million people voted to Leave after being told by all politicians they would respect the result - 3 years later they're calling for us to vote again. Get stuffed.

I was originally uneasy about prorogation, but totally support it now - especially after finding out that the disgraced former PM Sir John Major did the same. You could say he had curry all over his face this weekend when that brazen hypocrisy was pointed out.

Major didn’t prorogue Parliament as a tactical device. He called a General Election. And anyway given the outcome, I hardly think it is a prospect that Johnson would want to look upon favourably!

Exactly. Major prorogued Parliament so the people could be consulted.

Johnson's plan is to prorogue so the people's representatives cannot be consulted.

tlg86

CarlottaVance said:

alex. said:

Viceroy said:

The previous thread on our democracy under threat made me laugh. Under threat, yeah like when 17 million people voted to Leave after being told by all politicians they would respect the result - 3 years later they're calling for us to vote again. Get stuffed.

I was originally uneasy about prorogation, but totally support it now - especially after finding out that the disgraced former PM Sir John Major did the same. You could say he had curry all over his face this weekend when that brazen hypocrisy was pointed out.

Major didn’t prorogue Parliament as a tactical device. He called a General Election. And anyway given the outcome, I hardly think it is a prospect that Johnson would want to look upon favourably!

Exactly. Major prorogued Parliament so the people could be consulted.

Johnson's plan is to prorogue so the people's representatives cannot be consulted.

The allegation against Major is that parliament was prorogued for longer than necessary to prevent publication of the cash for questions inquiry before the election.

Viceroy

AlastairMeeks said:

Viceroy said:

The previous thread on our democracy under threat made me laugh. Under threat, yeah like when 17 million people voted to Leave after being told by all politicians they would respect the result - 3 years later they're calling for us to vote again. Get stuffed.

I was originally uneasy about prorogation, but totally support it now - especially after finding out that the disgraced former PM Sir John Major did the same. You could say he had curry all over his face this weekend when that brazen hypocrisy was pointed out.

You either support democracy or undermine it. You have chosen to undermine it.

You've spent the last 3 years wittering on about Russian conspiracies, cheering on parliamentary plots to overturn convention and salivating over the possibility of making us all vote again so we give the 'correct' answer that you, Osborne and Cameron wanted.

Continuity Remain suddenly championing democracy is like Dr Harold Shipman championing patient welfare. If Boris prorogues, the usual Islington middle class will stamp their feet and spit their dummies - but so what? They've done it before. What did it achieve? Nilch.

It's our turn now to play games with the rules/conventions. Don't like it, do you?

AlastairMeeks

tlg86 said:

CarlottaVance said:

alex. said:

Viceroy said:

The previous thread on our democracy under threat made me laugh. Under threat, yeah like when 17 million people voted to Leave after being told by all politicians they would respect the result - 3 years later they're calling for us to vote again. Get stuffed.

I was originally uneasy about prorogation, but totally support it now - especially after finding out that the disgraced former PM Sir John Major did the same. You could say he had curry all over his face this weekend when that brazen hypocrisy was pointed out.

Major didn’t prorogue Parliament as a tactical device. He called a General Election. And anyway given the outcome, I hardly think it is a prospect that Johnson would want to look upon favourably!

Exactly. Major prorogued Parliament so the people could be consulted.

Johnson's plan is to prorogue so the people's representatives cannot be consulted.

The allegation against Major is that parliament was prorogued for longer than necessary to prevent publication of the cash for questions enquiry before the election.

1) if true it did him no good.

2) if true it is trivial in comparison to imposing on the country an irreversible policy decision that the government could not get through Parliament on the question that has dominated this era of British politics.

CarlottaVance

tlg86 said:

CarlottaVance said:

alex. said:

Viceroy said:

The previous thread on our democracy under threat made me laugh. Under threat, yeah like when 17 million people voted to Leave after being told by all politicians they would respect the result - 3 years later they're calling for us to vote again. Get stuffed.

I was originally uneasy about prorogation, but totally support it now - especially after finding out that the disgraced former PM Sir John Major did the same. You could say he had curry all over his face this weekend when that brazen hypocrisy was pointed out.

Major didn’t prorogue Parliament as a tactical device. He called a General Election. And anyway given the outcome, I hardly think it is a prospect that Johnson would want to look upon favourably!

Exactly. Major prorogued Parliament so the people could be consulted.

Johnson's plan is to prorogue so the people's representatives cannot be consulted.

The allegation against Major is that parliament was prorogued for longer than necessary to prevent publication of the cash for questions enquiry before the election.

Which ended up damaging all parties.

It wasn't to "run a clock down" on a significant change to the status of the country which the people and parliament remain divided upon.

How will Tories feel if a Corbyn government pulls a similar stunt on withdrawing from Nato, for example?

AlastairMeeks

Viceroy said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Viceroy said:

The previous thread on our democracy under threat made me laugh. Under threat, yeah like when 17 million people voted to Leave after being told by all politicians they would respect the result - 3 years later they're calling for us to vote again. Get stuffed.

I was originally uneasy about prorogation, but totally support it now - especially after finding out that the disgraced former PM Sir John Major did the same. You could say he had curry all over his face this weekend when that brazen hypocrisy was pointed out.

You either support democracy or undermine it. You have chosen to undermine it.

You've spent the last 3 years wittering on about Russian conspiracies, cheering on parliamentary plots to overturn convention and salavating over the possibility of making us all vote again so we give the 'correct' answer that you, Osborne and Cameron wanted.

Citation needed. (Hint, you’ll struggle a long time because it’s just not true.)

Viceroy

CarlottaVance said:

Which ended up damaging all parties.

It wasn't to "run a clock down" on a significant change to the status of the country which the people and parliament remain divided upon.

How will Tories feel if a Corbyn government pulls a similar stunt on withdrawing from Nato, for example?

As a High Tory, I actually couldn't care less given NATO is full of hangers on and the country NATO was founded to oppose doesn't even exist anymore.

I don't think we should go to war to protect Turkey or Latvia. Do you?

CarlottaVance

Viceroy said:

CarlottaVance said:

Which ended up damaging all parties.

It wasn't to "run a clock down" on a significant change to the status of the country which the people and parliament remain divided upon.

How will Tories feel if a Corbyn government pulls a similar stunt on withdrawing from Nato, for example?

As a High Tory, I actually couldn't care less given NATO is full of hangers on and the country NATO was founded to oppose doesn't even exist anymore.

I agree with the 2017 Manifesto:

NATO – the cornerstone of our defence

"High" (sic) Tories and Corbyn unite......

alex.

AlastairMeeks said:

tlg86 said:

CarlottaVance said:

alex. said:

Viceroy said:

The previous thread on our democracy under threat made me laugh. Under threat, yeah like when 17 million people voted to Leave after being told by all politicians they would respect the result - 3 years later they're calling for us to vote again. Get stuffed.

I was originally uneasy about prorogation, but totally support it now - especially after finding out that the disgraced former PM Sir John Major did the same. You could say he had curry all over his face this weekend when that brazen hypocrisy was pointed out.

Major didn’t prorogue Parliament as a tactical device. He called a General Election. And anyway given the outcome, I hardly think it is a prospect that Johnson would want to look upon favourably!

Exactly. Major prorogued Parliament so the people could be consulted.

Johnson's plan is to prorogue so the people's representatives cannot be consulted.

The allegation against Major is that parliament was prorogued for longer than necessary to prevent publication of the cash for questions enquiry before the election.

1) if true it did him no good.

2) if true it is trivial in comparison to imposing on the country an irreversible policy decision that the government could not get through Parliament on the question that has dominated this era of British politics.

It became a major focal point of the campaign (remember the Battle of Knutsford Heath?) and almost certainly contributed to the scale of the Tory defeat. Those urging it on Johnson do not do so with the interests of the Conservative Party and the future viability of his premiership at heart. But with “friends” like those he seems to be increasingly taking advice from, who needs enemies?

TheJezziah

https://twitter.com/labourpress/status/1150316851295084544

Personally I'm shocked, next somebody will tell me the Times isn't the pinnacle of accuracy...

CarlottaVance

Agree:

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1150633173405093889

Jess Philips is one of the few politicians who emerges well from this. The govt should have come down on it like a ton of bricks, rather than "try to get it out of the headlines" - its only made a bad situation worse.

TheJezziah

CarlottaVance said:

Agree:

https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1150633173405093889

Jess Philips is one of the few politicians who emerges well from this. The govt should have come down on it like a ton of bricks, rather than "try to get it out of the headlines" - its only made a bad situation worse.

Roger Godsiff, the Labour MP who made supportive comments about the protest, has made his retirement much more likely. As it was such a bad move from any tactical POV I assume it came from genuinely held beliefs...

Roger

CarlottaVance said:

Really NYT?

"Racial" not "Racist"?

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1150619778853289984

Great photo.

Pulpstar

tlg86 said:

JRM's Tweet was silly. But the responses are equally stupid.

Morgan
Stokes
Archer
Roy

They are all English. And saying that they aren't is not clever.

Roy sounded like he was from the North East, lol must have misheard - just checked an interview..

StuartDickson

CarlottaVance said:

Second. And I wished I shared OGH optimism. But Trump has just let his racist mask slip and will double down rather than apologise and shortly the Tories and us will be lumbered with an incompetent for PM. Good to see Mrs May enjoying the cricket. I suspect history will be kinder to her than her successor.

I too fail to see why Mike Smithson is so optimistic. History is littered with sporting success allied with political, social and economic misery (South American football and East German athletes spring to mind). And vice versa of course. But there just does not seem to be any correlation. For example, the London Olympics, widely perceived as being successful, preceded the biggest crisis in the UK since the war.

Regarding Scots (and most of the rest of the planet), we won’t be bothered either way whatever Jo Swinson (who?) says about a cricket match. (I find it hard to believe that she’ll bother saying anything.)

Morris_Dancer

Good morning, everyone.

F1: very entertaining race, just a shame that one bet was close but didn't come off, and other perhaps would've but for misfortune.

Very exciting to watch, and I'm glad to see Silverstone still has gravel traps rather than namby-pamby run-off areas.

SouthamObserver

tlg86 said:

JRM's Tweet was silly. But the responses are equally stupid.

Morgan
Stokes
Archer
Roy

They are all English. And saying that they aren't is not clever.

Good luck telling Eoin Morgan he’s English to his face! But it is clearly the case that England and the UK do best when they present a diverse and welcoming face to the world. We succeed by being open, not closed.

Roger

Though the cricket was entertaining comparing it to the 1966 World cup seems a little over egged. That was a WORLD cup including almost every country in the world. This was a rather more limited affair that includes perhaps 10% of the worlds sports playing nations.

Indeed Europe America China Russia and Japan weren't even represented. Did they even know a contest was taking place?

geoffw

Californian quake image


source:
https://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/natur/kalifornien-erdbeben-hinterliessen-spuren-im-untergrund-satellitenbild-der-woche-a-1276942.html

DavidL

I think that there should be a special shout out for Ben Stokes' Jury who acquitted him in the face of overwhelming evidence making yesterday possible.

SouthamObserver

‪Lots of stuff yesterday and today about whether winning the World Cup is better than winning the Ashes in 2005. For me, what made the 2005 Ashes victory so very special was who we beat. My guess is that if you asked the vast majority of England cricket fans they’d say the only downside to yesterday was that New Zealand lost. ‬

not_on_fire

StuartDickson said:

CarlottaVance said:

Second. And I wished I shared OGH optimism. But Trump has just let his racist mask slip and will double down rather than apologise and shortly the Tories and us will be lumbered with an incompetent for PM. Good to see Mrs May enjoying the cricket. I suspect history will be kinder to her than her successor.

I too fail to see why Mike Smithson is so optimistic. History is littered with sporting success allied with political, social and economic misery (South American football and East German athletes spring to mind). And vice versa of course. But there just does not seem to be any correlation. For example, the London Olympics, widely perceived as being successful, preceded the biggest crisis in the UK since the war.

Regarding Scots (and most of the rest of the planet), we won’t be bothered either way whatever Jo Swinson (who?) says about a cricket match. (I find it hard to believe that she’ll bother saying anything.)

London 2012 was peak UK in hindsight.

SouthamObserver

Look at all the coverage of winning the cricket World Cup and then imagine if England ever actually won the football World Cup. It would be off the charts.‬

alex.

Roger said:

Though the cricket was entertaining comparing it to the 1966 World cup seems a little over egged. That was a WORLD cup including almost every country in the world. This was a rather more limited affair that includes perhaps 10% of the worlds sports playing nations.

Indeed Europe America China Russia and Japan weren't even represented. Did they even know a contest was taking place?

Surely Europe was represented, wasn’t it?

SouthamObserver

Viceroy said:

CarlottaVance said:

Which ended up damaging all parties.

It wasn't to "run a clock down" on a significant change to the status of the country which the people and parliament remain divided upon.

How will Tories feel if a Corbyn government pulls a similar stunt on withdrawing from Nato, for example?

As a High Tory, I actually couldn't care less given NATO is full of hangers on and the country NATO was founded to oppose doesn't even exist anymore.

I don't think we should go to war to protect Turkey or Latvia. Do you?

My guess is that anyone attacking Turkey or Latvia would not stop there. I’m also pretty sure that such an attack would not be isolated, would have major regional ripple effects, would lead to huge and sustained economic and financial turmoil, and would cause significant movements of people across borders. For these reasons, I think it’s best to deter such attacks. Jeremy Corbyn would agree with you, though.

tlg86

SouthamObserver said:

tlg86 said:

JRM's Tweet was silly. But the responses are equally stupid.

Morgan
Stokes
Archer
Roy

They are all English. And saying that they aren't is not clever.

Good luck telling Eoin Morgan he’s English to his face! But it is clearly the case that England and the UK do best when they present a diverse and welcoming face to the world. We succeed by being open, not closed.

His mother is English and given he is captain of England I sincerely hope he considers himself to be English even if he also considers himself to be Irish.

DavidL

SouthamObserver said:

‪Lots of stuff yesterday and today about whether winning the World Cup is better than winning the Ashes in 2005. For me, what made the 2005 Ashes victory so very special was who we beat. My guess is that if you asked the vast majority of England cricket fans they’d say the only downside to yesterday was that New Zealand lost. ‬

I'd agree with that. It was hard not to feel a lot of sympathy for NZ and Williamson in particular who is a class act as well as a brilliant leader of men. England were incredibly lucky, the 4 off Stoke's dive being only 1 example.

CarlottaVance

https://twitter.com/RepDonBeyer/status/1150537893594750976

El_Capitano

Genuine question - what’s the cricket demographic? Does it really have significant cut-through?

I only knew there was some cricket on because I overheard our tenors talking about it at church yesterday, and only that it was a World Cup when my Twitter timeline suddenly became full of it last night.

But I’m quite prepared to believe I’m entirely atypical. As the product of a moderately good public school I do of course resent cricket almost as much as rugby, both of them unpleasant tortures imposed on us academically-minded chaps much against our will.

JosiasJessop

El_Capitano said:

Genuine question - what’s the cricket demographic? Does it really have significant cut-through?

I only knew there was some cricket on because I overheard our tenors talking about it at church yesterday, and only that it was a World Cup when my Twitter timeline suddenly became full of it last night.

But I’m quite prepared to believe I’m entirely atypical. As the product of a moderately good public school I do of course resent cricket almost as much as rugby, both of them unpleasant tortures imposed on us academically-minded chaps much against our will.

Cricket is an intensely boring sport. They had a day-long match that did not even give a fixed result; AIUI they had to eventually resolve it on the number of boundaries.

A few minutes of drama at the end of eight or nine hours doesn't make it exciting.

Any sport that cannot give a result after so long really isn't a sport.

So the F1 was miles better - if only to see Vettel's career continue to implode ...

Roger

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/RepDonBeyer/status/1150537893594750976

I hope no one tries to send him back to where his mother came from

Viceroy

SouthamObserver said:

My guess is that anyone attacking Turkey or Latvia would not stop there. I’m also pretty sure that such an attack would not be isolated, would have major regional ripple effects, would lead to huge and sustained economic and financial turmoil, and would cause significant movements of people across borders. For these reasons, I think it’s best to deter such attacks. Jeremy Corbyn would agree with you, though.

Are you willing to pick up a rifle and fight in the fields of Latvia or in the mountains of Turkey?

The Soviet Union no longer exists. What exactly is NATO for? If another threat were to arise in the world, sure we could look at another pact with relevant countries. But NATO is defunct in 2019.

The main threat to the balance of power in Europe today is again Germany, which ironically we've pushed to extending - via the EU - its economic and political power all the way to the Russian border. Any sensible British foreign policy would be aimed at containing Germany.

JohnLilburne

CarlottaVance said:

Really NYT?

"Racial" not "Racist"?

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1150619778853289984

Yeah, it's the adjective formed from "race".

IanB2

The lead is getting rather carried away, I suggest. Cricket has a much smaller following than football.

rkrkrk

Inspired by England (and Wales') never say die attitude and willingness to fight on however bleak the outcome; Theresa May decides to rescind her resignation and brings back MV4 to deliver Brexit in a 'super over' of parliament.

Was that what you had in mind?

Cyclefree

Worth reading - https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/the-only-special-relationship-we-ever-really-had-was-with-the-eu-what-an-appalling-waste-to-have-thrown-it-away

Roger

alex. said:

Roger said:

Though the cricket was entertaining comparing it to the 1966 World cup seems a little over egged. That was a WORLD cup including almost every country in the world. This was a rather more limited affair that includes perhaps 10% of the worlds sports playing nations.

Indeed Europe America China Russia and Japan weren't even represented. Did they even know a contest was taking place?

Surely Europe was represented, wasn’t it?

Was it apart from England?

SquareRoot

IanB2 said:

The lead is getting rather carried away, I suggest. Cricket has a much smaller following than football.

Yes and the footballers get paid obscene sums of money and yet continually fail to impress.

Cyclefree

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/RepDonBeyer/status/1150537893594750976

Wasn’t there some discussion a few years ago about people here being classified as second generation immigrants even if they were born here if their parents weren’t?

Always seemed daft to me - if you’re born in a country you’re mot an immigrant.

Trump is vile but we know that and despite it all our government wants to cosy up to him. I don’t see how any sporting victory can change any of that.

nichomar

Viceroy said:

SouthamObserver said:

My guess is that anyone attacking Turkey or Latvia would not stop there. I’m also pretty sure that such an attack would not be isolated, would have major regional ripple effects, would lead to huge and sustained economic and financial turmoil, and would cause significant movements of people across borders. For these reasons, I think it’s best to deter such attacks. Jeremy Corbyn would agree with you, though.

Are you willing to pick up a rifle and fight in the fields of Latvia or in the mountains of Turkey?

The Soviet Union no longer exists. What exactly is NATO for? If another threat were to arise in the world, sure we could look at another pact with relevant countries. But NATO is defunct in 2019.

The main threat to the balance of power in Europe today is again Germany, which ironically we've pushed to extending - via the EU - its economic and political power all the way to the Russian border. Any sensible British foreign policy would be aimed at containing Germany.

God you are stupid or a wind up, the threat of the Soviet Union has not gone away it’s just changed it’s name and is actively working to undermine NATO and the EU to enhance its own territorial advantage. You seem keen to assist them.

ydoethur

Roger said:

Indeed Europe America China Russia and Japan weren't even represented. Did they even know a contest was taking place?

A European nation won the tournament.

When last I checked, the West Indies were part of Central America.

I'll give you Japan and Russia, but who cares about them?

Gallowgate

Viceroy said:

SouthamObserver said:

My guess is that anyone attacking Turkey or Latvia would not stop there. I’m also pretty sure that such an attack would not be isolated, would have major regional ripple effects, would lead to huge and sustained economic and financial turmoil, and would cause significant movements of people across borders. For these reasons, I think it’s best to deter such attacks. Jeremy Corbyn would agree with you, though.

Are you willing to pick up a rifle and fight in the fields of Latvia or in the mountains of Turkey?

The Soviet Union no longer exists. What exactly is NATO for? If another threat were to arise in the world, sure we could look at another pact with relevant countries. But NATO is defunct in 2019.

The main threat to the balance of power in Europe today is again Germany, which ironically we've pushed to extending - via the EU - its economic and political power all the way to the Russian border. Any sensible British foreign policy would be aimed at containing Germany.

Imagine calling Germany a threat in 2019. Completely and utterly delusional. They are our friends and allies.

StuartDickson

On a scale of one to ten:
Cricket 1 (absolute torture)
Car racing 2 (yawn city)
Tennis 3 (crap on tv, but would probably enjoy attending a match)

That said, I’m the wrong demographic. Even my favourite spectator sports (road cycling, football, ice hockey and handball) would barely scrape a five out of ten. I think it might be because I have almost totally cut television out of my life, and I rarely have time to attend sports events in person.

I much prefer sport as a participant rather than as a spectator. I wish I was fit enough to last more than five minutes of water polo, but I can cope with a bit of gentle curling, or 50m butterfly on a good day.

It would not surprise me if the sport demographic is strongly related to tv watching, which is a dying hobby.

JackW

JosiasJessop said:

A few minutes of drama at the end of eight or nine hours doesn't make it exciting

Sorry to hear about your love life .....

alex.

Roger said:

alex. said:

Roger said:

Though the cricket was entertaining comparing it to the 1966 World cup seems a little over egged. That was a WORLD cup including almost every country in the world. This was a rather more limited affair that includes perhaps 10% of the worlds sports playing nations.

Indeed Europe America China Russia and Japan weren't even represented. Did they even know a contest was taking place?

Surely Europe was represented, wasn’t it?

Was it apart from England?

Why the qualification? From an enthusiastic pro-European as well!

StuartDickson

Gallowgate said:

Viceroy said:

SouthamObserver said:

My guess is that anyone attacking Turkey or Latvia would not stop there. I’m also pretty sure that such an attack would not be isolated, would have major regional ripple effects, would lead to huge and sustained economic and financial turmoil, and would cause significant movements of people across borders. For these reasons, I think it’s best to deter such attacks. Jeremy Corbyn would agree with you, though.

Are you willing to pick up a rifle and fight in the fields of Latvia or in the mountains of Turkey?

The Soviet Union no longer exists. What exactly is NATO for? If another threat were to arise in the world, sure we could look at another pact with relevant countries. But NATO is defunct in 2019.

The main threat to the balance of power in Europe today is again Germany, which ironically we've pushed to extending - via the EU - its economic and political power all the way to the Russian border. Any sensible British foreign policy would be aimed at containing Germany.

Imagine calling Germany a threat in 2019. Completely and utterly delusional. They are our friends and allies.

One of the tragedies of modern England is that she is no longer able to correctly identify allies and foes. She needs to wise up, and fast, because she’s getting in with a bad crowd, and spurning the outstretched hands of friends.

OblitusSumMe

Roger said:

Though the cricket was entertaining comparing it to the 1966 World cup seems a little over egged. That was a WORLD cup including almost every country in the world. This was a rather more limited affair that includes perhaps 10% of the worlds sports playing nations.

Indeed Europe America China Russia and Japan weren't even represented. Did they even know a contest was taking place?

FIFA World Cup 2018 Semi-Finalists: France, Belgium, Croatia, England. Combined population of 138 million. All from Europe.

ICC ODI World Cup 2019 Semi-Finalists: England & Wales, New Zealand, Australia, India. Combined population of 1,428 million. From Europe, South Asia and Oceania.

Which is the more global sport?

Nigelb

SouthamObserver said:

Viceroy said:

CarlottaVance said:

Which ended up damaging all parties.

It wasn't to "run a clock down" on a significant change to the status of the country which the people and parliament remain divided upon.

How will Tories feel if a Corbyn government pulls a similar stunt on withdrawing from Nato, for example?

As a High Tory, I actually couldn't care less given NATO is full of hangers on and the country NATO was founded to oppose doesn't even exist anymore.

I don't think we should go to war to protect Turkey or Latvia. Do you?

My guess is that anyone attacking Turkey or Latvia would not stop there. I’m also pretty sure that such an attack would not be isolated, would have major regional ripple effects, would lead to huge and sustained economic and financial turmoil, and would cause significant movements of people across borders. For these reasons, I think it’s best to deter such attacks. Jeremy Corbyn would agree with you, though.

Viceroy said:

CarlottaVance said:

Which ended up damaging all parties.

It wasn't to "run a clock down" on a significant change to the status of the country which the people and parliament remain divided upon.

How will Tories feel if a Corbyn government pulls a similar stunt on withdrawing from Nato, for example?

As a High Tory....

That explains it.
I’d cut back on the wacky baccy.

IanB2

OblitusSumMe said:

Roger said:

Though the cricket was entertaining comparing it to the 1966 World cup seems a little over egged. That was a WORLD cup including almost every country in the world. This was a rather more limited affair that includes perhaps 10% of the worlds sports playing nations.

Indeed Europe America China Russia and Japan weren't even represented. Did they even know a contest was taking place?

FIFA World Cup 2018 Semi-Finalists: France, Belgium, Croatia, England. Combined population of 138 million. All from Europe.

ICC ODI World Cup 2019 Semi-Finalists: England & Wales, New Zealand, Australia, India. Combined population of 1,428 million. From Europe, South Asia and Oceania.

Which is the more global sport?

The one followed by the most fans and spectators around the world.

I only knew it was on when I dropped into PB and no-one was talking about Brexit.

Are we sure it's even proper cricket? The photo of the lads in sky blue look like they are trialling a new outfit for inmates of some privatised prison.

alex.

OblitusSumMe said:

Roger said:

Though the cricket was entertaining comparing it to the 1966 World cup seems a little over egged. That was a WORLD cup including almost every country in the world. This was a rather more limited affair that includes perhaps 10% of the worlds sports playing nations.

Indeed Europe America China Russia and Japan weren't even represented. Did they even know a contest was taking place?

FIFA World Cup 2018 Semi-Finalists: France, Belgium, Croatia, England. Combined population of 138 million. All from Europe.

ICC ODI World Cup 2019 Semi-Finalists: England & Wales, New Zealand, Australia, India. Combined population of 1,428 million. From Europe, South Asia and Oceania.

Which is the more global sport?

I think you'll find it's 1.431m, no 1.434 million, no 1.437million

Correction: 1.443m...

TOPPING

Bloody hell Liam Fox talking a lot of sense in the radio. Where was this Liam Fox before?

Dura_Ace

IanB2 said:

Are we sure it's even proper cricket? The photo of the lads in sky blue look like they are trialling a new outfit for inmates of some privatised prison.

I don't know anybody who gives the slightest fuck about it. I don't think it's going to be moment of transformative nationalism.

OblitusSumMe

JosiasJessop said:

El_Capitano said:

Genuine question - what’s the cricket demographic? Does it really have significant cut-through?

I only knew there was some cricket on because I overheard our tenors talking about it at church yesterday, and only that it was a World Cup when my Twitter timeline suddenly became full of it last night.

But I’m quite prepared to believe I’m entirely atypical. As the product of a moderately good public school I do of course resent cricket almost as much as rugby, both of them unpleasant tortures imposed on us academically-minded chaps much against our will.

Cricket is an intensely boring sport. They had a day-long match that did not even give a fixed result; AIUI they had to eventually resolve it on the number of boundaries.

A few minutes of drama at the end of eight or nine hours doesn't make it exciting.

Any sport that cannot give a result after so long really isn't a sport.

So the F1 was miles better - if only to see Vettel's career continue to implode ...

I like cricket because it builds slowly and subtly to a denouement.

For similar reasons I much prefer a fruit cake, that might need at least a week to mature and form more complex flavours after being baked, to something like a Victoria sponge.

StuartDickson

TOPPING said:

Bloody hell Liam Fox talking a lot of sense in the radio. Where was this Liam Fox before?

His inner common-sense Scot has found its voice?

FrancisUrquhart

IanB2 said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Roger said:

Though the cricket was entertaining comparing it to the 1966 World cup seems a little over egged. That was a WORLD cup including almost every country in the world. This was a rather more limited affair that includes perhaps 10% of the worlds sports playing nations.

Indeed Europe America China Russia and Japan weren't even represented. Did they even know a contest was taking place?

FIFA World Cup 2018 Semi-Finalists: France, Belgium, Croatia, England. Combined population of 138 million. All from Europe.

ICC ODI World Cup 2019 Semi-Finalists: England & Wales, New Zealand, Australia, India. Combined population of 1,428 million. From Europe, South Asia and Oceania.

Which is the more global sport?

The one followed by the most fans and spectators around the world.

I only knew it was on when I dropped into PB and no-one was talking about Brexit.

Are we sure it's even proper cricket? The photo of the lads in sky blue look like they are trialling a new outfit for inmates of some privatised prison.

Get with the times, even local league cricket teams often play in the coloured PJs these days.

ydoethur

OblitusSumMe said:

For similar reasons I much prefer a fruit cake

Never knew you were a fan of Francois.

StuartDickson

Why were England playing in blue outfits? The English national colours are white and red.

RochdalePioneers

Viceroy ranting from Spain about the threat from foreigners...

OblitusSumMe

ydoethur said:

OblitusSumMe said:

For similar reasons I much prefer a fruit cake

Never knew you were a fan of Francois.

Better a fruit cake than a closet racist.

ydoethur

OblitusSumMe said:

ydoethur said:

OblitusSumMe said:

For similar reasons I much prefer a fruit cake

Never knew you were a fan of Francois.

Better a fruit cake than a closet racist.

Never knew he was a closet racist...

RochdalePioneers

Was the F1 supposed to be a good race then? Was pretty poor - then again I've been so bored of this season that I've found myself skipping though even the highlights

SouthamObserver

El_Capitano said:

Genuine question - what’s the cricket demographic? Does it really have significant cut-through?

I only knew there was some cricket on because I overheard our tenors talking about it at church yesterday, and only that it was a World Cup when my Twitter timeline suddenly became full of it last night.

But I’m quite prepared to believe I’m entirely atypical. As the product of a moderately good public school I do of course resent cricket almost as much as rugby, both of them unpleasant tortures imposed on us academically-minded chaps much against our will.

England being world champions in a sport that everyone has heard of is what has cut-through!

Foxy

SquareRoot said:

IanB2 said:

The lead is getting rather carried away, I suggest. Cricket has a much smaller following than football.

Yes and the footballers get paid obscene sums of money and yet continually fail to impress.

Paid money by their clubs, not their country. Perhaps you didn't notice that both Europa League and Champions League were all English finals?

Always good to see a sporting win, but Mike has over egged it. It is not going to transform politics, at most it will allow us a respite for a few days.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Pioneers, the British Grand Prix was entertaining from start to finish, with tight on-track battles almost throughout the field. The only reason the win wasn't contested was Bottas' ill fortune with the timing of the safety car (and, perhaps, the team's 'interesting' decision to put him on a second set of medium tyres).

Passing, crashes, great wheel-to-wheel racing, it was fantastic.

And if you were bored by the preceding race (Austria) then I'm flabbergasted.

SouthamObserver

Viceroy said:

SouthamObserver said:

My guess is that anyone attacking Turkey or Latvia would not stop there. I’m also pretty sure that such an attack would not be isolated, would have major regional ripple effects, would lead to huge and sustained economic and financial turmoil, and would cause significant movements of people across borders. For these reasons, I think it’s best to deter such attacks. Jeremy Corbyn would agree with you, though.

Are you willing to pick up a rifle and fight in the fields of Latvia or in the mountains of Turkey?

The Soviet Union no longer exists. What exactly is NATO for? If another threat were to arise in the world, sure we could look at another pact with relevant countries. But NATO is defunct in 2019.

The main threat to the balance of power in Europe today is again Germany, which ironically we've pushed to extending - via the EU - its economic and political power all the way to the Russian border. Any sensible British foreign policy would be aimed at containing Germany.

Ah, you’re a Trumpian loon. So a new-style Tory, not a High Tory.

Roger

OblitusSumMe said:

Roger said:

Though the cricket was entertaining comparing it to the 1966 World cup seems a little over egged. That was a WORLD cup including almost every country in the world. This was a rather more limited affair that includes perhaps 10% of the worlds sports playing nations.

Indeed Europe America China Russia and Japan weren't even represented. Did they even know a contest was taking place?

FIFA World Cup 2018 Semi-Finalists: France, Belgium, Croatia, England. Combined population of 138 million. All from Europe.

ICC ODI World Cup 2019 Semi-Finalists: England & Wales, New Zealand, Australia, India. Combined population of 1,428 million. From Europe, South Asia and Oceania.

Which is the more global sport?

It's got to do with the international prestige of the competition. I mean how can 'Viceroy' go dancing through the streets of Berlin chanting "Two World Wars and One Limited Overs Cricket World Cup" with a straight face.

malcolmg

Sandpit said:

What an awesome day of sport that was!

First country to win world cups in football, rugby and cricket, plus the longest Wimbledon final ever and a fantastic Grand Prix from silverstone watched by nearly 150,000 paying spectators. Well done to all those involved, especially those on the receiving end of the close results (which I probably wouldn’t have said if it had been Australia or India!).

There’s definitely a story to be told about how that last-minute TV deal came about, a good task for a journo today.

Back to life with a bump and a hangover this morning.

Two of the three dodgy as well. New Zealand were robbed yesterday, pathetic they get 4 runs when the ball bounces off their man and then the fixed super over. Only way they ever win , just like 1966.
Rugby was only exception.

JosiasJessop

JackW said:

JosiasJessop said:

A few minutes of drama at the end of eight or nine hours doesn't make it exciting

Sorry to hear about your love life .....

Hey, I'm a long-distance walker. I'll walk for eight or nine hours a day for weeks - and that's more preferable to spending a day watching cricket ...

malcolmg

SouthamObserver said:

El_Capitano said:

Genuine question - what’s the cricket demographic? Does it really have significant cut-through?

I only knew there was some cricket on because I overheard our tenors talking about it at church yesterday, and only that it was a World Cup when my Twitter timeline suddenly became full of it last night.

But I’m quite prepared to believe I’m entirely atypical. As the product of a moderately good public school I do of course resent cricket almost as much as rugby, both of them unpleasant tortures imposed on us academically-minded chaps much against our will.

England being world champions in a sport that everyone has heard of is what has cut-through!

Bollox , no-one will give a hoot, apart from England. It changes nothing , the UK is still on life support.

malcolmg

StuartDickson said:

Why were England playing in blue outfits? The English national colours are white and red.

They dream of being Scottish

JosiasJessop

OblitusSumMe said:

JosiasJessop said:

El_Capitano said:

Genuine question - what’s the cricket demographic? Does it really have significant cut-through?

I only knew there was some cricket on because I overheard our tenors talking about it at church yesterday, and only that it was a World Cup when my Twitter timeline suddenly became full of it last night.

But I’m quite prepared to believe I’m entirely atypical. As the product of a moderately good public school I do of course resent cricket almost as much as rugby, both of them unpleasant tortures imposed on us academically-minded chaps much against our will.

Cricket is an intensely boring sport. They had a day-long match that did not even give a fixed result; AIUI they had to eventually resolve it on the number of boundaries.

A few minutes of drama at the end of eight or nine hours doesn't make it exciting.

Any sport that cannot give a result after so long really isn't a sport.

So the F1 was miles better - if only to see Vettel's career continue to implode ...

I like cricket because it builds slowly and subtly to a denouement.

For similar reasons I much prefer a fruit cake, that might need at least a week to mature and form more complex flavours after being baked, to something like a Victoria sponge.

A five-year old son's lack of patience means that it's Victoria Sponge every time at the moment.

"Dad, is it ready yet?"

TOPPING

On topic yes cricket is deathly boring but this was a World Cup. With England involved. And that made it extremely not boring. I listened to the last two hours in the car and it was amazing entertainment.

StuartDickson

SouthamObserver said:

El_Capitano said:

Genuine question - what’s the cricket demographic? Does it really have significant cut-through?

I only knew there was some cricket on because I overheard our tenors talking about it at church yesterday, and only that it was a World Cup when my Twitter timeline suddenly became full of it last night.

But I’m quite prepared to believe I’m entirely atypical. As the product of a moderately good public school I do of course resent cricket almost as much as rugby, both of them unpleasant tortures imposed on us academically-minded chaps much against our will.

England being world champions in a sport that everyone has heard of is what has cut-through!

Evidence for cut-through?

Folk who still have the tv habit, and the time, ie. elderly males, perhaps.

Young folk, mainly women, who largely stream media and almost never watch “normal” tv, read a newspaper or listen to a news bulletin: definitely not.

If cricket ain’t on Insta it’ll never cut through to the wider populace. And try explaining the rules to a generation with the attention span of a flea.

malcolmg

Dura_Ace said:

IanB2 said:

Are we sure it's even proper cricket? The photo of the lads in sky blue look like they are trialling a new outfit for inmates of some privatised prison.

I don't know anybody who gives the slightest fuck about it. I don't think it's going to be moment of transformative nationalism.

Someone with some sense among the bedwetters

TOPPING

As for @Viceroy he is right. We voted to leave the EU and we haven’t left yet. I can perfectly understand people’s rage at that.

malcolmg

Gallowgate said:

Viceroy said:

SouthamObserver said:

My guess is that anyone attacking Turkey or Latvia would not stop there. I’m also pretty sure that such an attack would not be isolated, would have major regional ripple effects, would lead to huge and sustained economic and financial turmoil, and would cause significant movements of people across borders. For these reasons, I think it’s best to deter such attacks. Jeremy Corbyn would agree with you, though.

Are you willing to pick up a rifle and fight in the fields of Latvia or in the mountains of Turkey?

The Soviet Union no longer exists. What exactly is NATO for? If another threat were to arise in the world, sure we could look at another pact with relevant countries. But NATO is defunct in 2019.

The main threat to the balance of power in Europe today is again Germany, which ironically we've pushed to extending - via the EU - its economic and political power all the way to the Russian border. Any sensible British foreign policy would be aimed at containing Germany.

Imagine calling Germany a threat in 2019. Completely and utterly delusional. They are our friends and allies.

He is not right in the tattie

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/tamcohen/status/1150664530311241729

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1150664377894354944

StuartDickson

JosiasJessop said:

OblitusSumMe said:

JosiasJessop said:

El_Capitano said:

Genuine question - what’s the cricket demographic? Does it really have significant cut-through?

I only knew there was some cricket on because I overheard our tenors talking about it at church yesterday, and only that it was a World Cup when my Twitter timeline suddenly became full of it last night.

But I’m quite prepared to believe I’m entirely atypical. As the product of a moderately good public school I do of course resent cricket almost as much as rugby, both of them unpleasant tortures imposed on us academically-minded chaps much against our will.

Cricket is an intensely boring sport. They had a day-long match that did not even give a fixed result; AIUI they had to eventually resolve it on the number of boundaries.

A few minutes of drama at the end of eight or nine hours doesn't make it exciting.

Any sport that cannot give a result after so long really isn't a sport.

So the F1 was miles better - if only to see Vettel's career continue to implode ...

I like cricket because it builds slowly and subtly to a denouement.

For similar reasons I much prefer a fruit cake, that might need at least a week to mature and form more complex flavours after being baked, to something like a Victoria sponge.

A five-year old son's lack of patience means that it's Victoria Sponge every time at the moment.

"Dad, is it ready yet?"

Hate to nag, but you’re doing your child a disservice pumping them full of sugar and empty calories. Fill them up with raw carrots, cucumber, peppers, berries, fruit etc. That’s how you build a strong nation of future stars.

Lecture over.

not_on_fire

StuartDickson said:

Why were England playing in blue outfits? The English national colours are white and red.

They were playing in their lucky EU blue

Nigelb

malcolmg said:

Sandpit said:

What an awesome day of sport that was!

First country to win world cups in football, rugby and cricket, plus the longest Wimbledon final ever and a fantastic Grand Prix from silverstone watched by nearly 150,000 paying spectators. Well done to all those involved, especially those on the receiving end of the close results (which I probably wouldn’t have said if it had been Australia or India!).

There’s definitely a story to be told about how that last-minute TV deal came about, a good task for a journo today.

Back to life with a bump and a hangover this morning.

Two of the three dodgy as well. New Zealand were robbed yesterday, pathetic they get 4 runs when the ball bounces off their man and then the fixed super over. Only way they ever win , just like 1966.
Rugby was only exception.

For someone who professes no interest in cricket, you seem terribly concerned, malcolm.
Though sadly ignorant of the rules.

malcolmg

not_on_fire said:

StuartDickson said:

CarlottaVance said:

Second. And I wished I shared OGH optimism. But Trump has just let his racist mask slip and will double down rather than apologise and shortly the Tories and us will be lumbered with an incompetent for PM. Good to see Mrs May enjoying the cricket. I suspect history will be kinder to her than her successor.

I too fail to see why Mike Smithson is so optimistic. History is littered with sporting success allied with political, social and economic misery (South American football and East German athletes spring to mind). And vice versa of course. But there just does not seem to be any correlation. For example, the London Olympics, widely perceived as being successful, preceded the biggest crisis in the UK since the war.

Regarding Scots (and most of the rest of the planet), we won’t be bothered either way whatever Jo Swinson (who?) says about a cricket match. (I find it hard to believe that she’ll bother saying anything.)

London 2012 was peak UK in hindsight.

Peak hubris and embarrassment you mean

not_on_fire

TOPPING said:

As for @Viceroy he is right. We voted to leave the EU and we haven’t left yet. I can perfectly understand people’s rage at that.

The rage is understandable, not projecting it at those whole told untold lies about how easy and consequence free Leave would be is not.