Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » This unique feel good moment has the potential to change our p

135

Comments

  • theakestheakes Posts: 931
    Feel good is an anachronism. 1966 June World Cup, did the Government not LOSE the Carmarthen by election one month later, followed by a number of losses in 1967, and then the Toies steaming ahead in the polls.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    felix said:

    Roger said:


    felix said:

    Viceroy ranting from Spain about the threat from foreigners...

    As a Brit abroad myself I get the irony but his lunacy is a product of who he is not where he lives.
    Has it occured to you 'he' might be your next door neighbour? The woman sitting beside the pool with the big breasts pretending to do the crossword......
    All of my neighbour's are Spanish. Your prejudices and stereotypes continue to amuse.

    You're neighbour's... pools ? crosswords... ?? ...
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    It's called a conflict of prejudices.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    edited July 2019

    Roger said:

    Though the cricket was entertaining comparing it to the 1966 World cup seems a little over egged. That was a WORLD cup including almost every country in the world. This was a rather more limited affair that includes perhaps 10% of the worlds sports playing nations.

    Indeed Europe America China Russia and Japan weren't even represented. Did they even know a contest was taking place?

    FIFA World Cup 2018 Semi-Finalists: France, Belgium, Croatia, England. Combined population of 138 million. All from Europe.

    ICC ODI World Cup 2019 Semi-Finalists: England & Wales, New Zealand, Australia, India. Combined population of 1,428 million. From Europe, South Asia and Oceania.

    Which is the more global sport?
    Look, It's good England won the cricket but then people like your good self go OTT and start making ludicrous claims about it.

    There is no argument that football is the global sport, cricket is a niche game played mainly by the old British Empire, there are about half a dozen decent teams in the world and in the UK the crowds at every county ground on a Saturday combined wouldn't fill Old Trafford. I doubt 1 in 10 could tell you who won the last county championship, I couldn't.

    Just enjoy it for what it is and not try to hype it beyond reason. The British press would go mad if we won the world tiddlywinks championship, they are desperate to try and find a feel-good factor to deflect from Brexit gloom.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    And we say (often with justification) that the UK Home Office is a mess:

    En Anglais, s'il vous plait?

    (Apologies if I got that wrong)
    Twitter will translate it for you....

    UNBELIEVABLE ⁉️
    France, the only country where you will be denied nationality for the sole reason: works too much.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Scott_P said:

    Big G's MP.....not entirely popular with his constituents apparently.....
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,597
    ydoethur said:

    Do we have the TV viewing figures for the cricket yet?

    It will be interesting to see how they compare to the recent football semi-final.

    Not for the final, but figures for the group stages are here:

    https://www.icc-cricket.com/media-releases/1277987
    Very interesting. Since I abandoned Sky for Netflix/Prime/the "iPlayers" I followed the cricket on a combination of TMS, live chat and the ICC just-behind-the-action video clips. Then the end of the final on C4 live streaming (missed the start due to daughter's friend's birthday party obligations).

    Once they realise that Insta is a messaging-with-pic/video channel, not a photostream, the ICC will improve those figures even more.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    OllyT said:

    Roger said:

    Though the cricket was entertaining comparing it to the 1966 World cup seems a little over egged. That was a WORLD cup including almost every country in the world. This was a rather more limited affair that includes perhaps 10% of the worlds sports playing nations.

    Indeed Europe America China Russia and Japan weren't even represented. Did they even know a contest was taking place?

    FIFA World Cup 2018 Semi-Finalists: France, Belgium, Croatia, England. Combined population of 138 million. All from Europe.

    ICC ODI World Cup 2019 Semi-Finalists: England & Wales, New Zealand, Australia, India. Combined population of 1,428 million. From Europe, South Asia and Oceania.

    Which is the more global sport?
    Look, It's good England won the cricket but then people like your good self go OTT and start making ludicrous claims about it.

    There is no argument that football is the global sport, cricket is a niche game played mainly by the old British Empire, there are about half a dozen decent teams in the world and in the UK the crowds at every county ground on a Saturday combined wouldn't fill Old Trafford. I doubt 1 in 10 could tell you who won the last county championship, I couldn't.

    Just enjoy it for what it is and not try to hype it beyond reason. The British press would go mad if we won the world tiddlywinks championship, they are desperate to try and find a feel-good factor to deflect from Brexit gloom.
    I'm only responding to sour people doing cricket down. I'm not taking it as seriously as you are.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    Scott_P said:
    Yep, as trailed yesterday. Lee, Greening, Bebb, Grieve and possibly Gauke are high on the list.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005
    HYUFD said:

    Fenster said:

    I'm Welsh so it's hard to praise an English sports team :) but this is one hell of a one-day team and deserved World champs.

    It's the Entland and Wales team though the and Wales tends to get dropped. So there should be no difficulty for you at all.
    Indeed, Robert Croft one example of a former Welsh England cricket team player
    Denness and (theoretically) Jardine both Scottish.
    It's a small part of the long tradition of England/Scotland/Wales/Ireland/NI/UK/Britain/nation/country/state obfuscation that keeps the show on the road.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Can’t people just say well done .

    Incredible game of cricket . Played in a good spirit . NZ are wonderful ambassadors for their country and England put a smile on peoples faces .

    That’s it, does Brexit need to come in to everything .
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    How would / could that work?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679

    HYUFD said:

    Fenster said:

    I'm Welsh so it's hard to praise an English sports team :) but this is one hell of a one-day team and deserved World champs.

    It's the Entland and Wales team though the and Wales tends to get dropped. So there should be no difficulty for you at all.
    Indeed, Robert Croft one example of a former Welsh England cricket team player
    Denness and (theoretically) Jardine both Scottish.
    It's a small part of the long tradition of England/Scotland/Wales/Ireland/NI/UK/Britain/nation/country/state obfuscation that keeps the show on the road.
    Jardine was brilliant, he wound up the Aussies by just breathing.

    He and Harold Larwood were shameful treated by the powers that be here.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,847
    OllyT said:

    Roger said:

    Though the cricket was entertaining comparing it to the 1966 World cup seems a little over egged. That was a WORLD cup including almost every country in the world. This was a rather more limited affair that includes perhaps 10% of the worlds sports playing nations.

    Indeed Europe America China Russia and Japan weren't even represented. Did they even know a contest was taking place?

    FIFA World Cup 2018 Semi-Finalists: France, Belgium, Croatia, England. Combined population of 138 million. All from Europe.

    ICC ODI World Cup 2019 Semi-Finalists: England & Wales, New Zealand, Australia, India. Combined population of 1,428 million. From Europe, South Asia and Oceania.

    Which is the more global sport?
    Look, It's good England won the cricket but then people like your good self go OTT and start making ludicrous claims about it.

    There is no argument that football is the global sport, cricket is a niche game played mainly by the old British Empire, there are about half a dozen decent teams in the world and in the UK the crowds at every county ground on a Saturday combined wouldn't fill Old Trafford. I doubt 1 in 10 could tell you who won the last county championship, I couldn't.

    Just enjoy it for what it is and not try to hype it beyond reason. The British press would go mad if we won the world tiddlywinks championship, they are desperate to try and find a feel-good factor to deflect from Brexit gloom.
    Football is clearly the global sport. Cricket has a good claim to be the second global team sport though, certainly in the same tier as the other main contenders basketball, rugby union and hockey. It may even be ahead of tennis as the second global sport.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Cyclefree said:

    How would / could that work?
    Be tricky but I guess that is why they are talking.

    Please, please though my wallet says, make Clarke PM before Boris gets to the Palace.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679
    Cyclefree said:

    How would / could that work?
    Government loses a VONC but a new PM emerges in the 14 day window of the fixed term Parliament act.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005
    The very worst thing about Mogg's tweet was that mimsy little 'd..n', the pishy gentility and phoney antiquatedness should bar him from decent company. Since he appears to like hanging out with Farage and the like, he at least seems to be taking action on that front himself.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    I'm fairly confident that if such a thing occurs, Jeremy Hunt will not be PM. He's put himself forward to be PM as leader of the Tory Party, which I think rules him out. It's more likely, in my opinion, someone who hasn't been in the Cabinet recently.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406

    Cyclefree said:

    How would / could that work?
    Government loses a VONC but a new PM emerges in the 14 day window of the fixed term Parliament act.
    +1 - there is no point VoNCing and ending up with a general election - the timing doesn't work.

    So you need a plan to ensure that when the VoNC is won by the opposition there is a workable plan to ensure what needs to happen next happens.

    and I suspect that is either a very long extension or revoke to then allow an election to take place.

    Looking into the future unless we actually leave Brexit is going to be the defining point of all elections for the next 20 years...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. T, I partially disagree. Cricket's played, watched, and generally enjoyed by a great many people. There isn't a binary choice between biggest global sport and niche interest, after ll.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited July 2019

    OllyT said:

    Roger said:

    Though the cricket was entertaining comparing it to the 1966 World cup seems a little over egged. That was a WORLD cup including almost every country in the world. This was a rather more limited affair that includes perhaps 10% of the worlds sports playing nations.

    Indeed Europe America China Russia and Japan weren't even represented. Did they even know a contest was taking place?

    FIFA World Cup 2018 Semi-Finalists: France, Belgium, Croatia, England. Combined population of 138 million. All from Europe.

    ICC ODI World Cup 2019 Semi-Finalists: England & Wales, New Zealand, Australia, India. Combined population of 1,428 million. From Europe, South Asia and Oceania.

    Which is the more global sport?
    Look, It's good England won the cricket but then people like your good self go OTT and start making ludicrous claims about it.

    There is no argument that football is the global sport, cricket is a niche game played mainly by the old British Empire, there are about half a dozen decent teams in the world and in the UK the crowds at every county ground on a Saturday combined wouldn't fill Old Trafford. I doubt 1 in 10 could tell you who won the last county championship, I couldn't.

    Just enjoy it for what it is and not try to hype it beyond reason. The British press would go mad if we won the world tiddlywinks championship, they are desperate to try and find a feel-good factor to deflect from Brexit gloom.
    Football is clearly the global sport. Cricket has a good claim to be the second global team sport though, certainly in the same tier as the other main contenders basketball, rugby union and hockey. It may even be ahead of tennis as the second global sport.
    There are no official figures, but these sites provide some interesting pointers:

    https://sportsshow.net/top-10-most-popular-sports-in-the-world/

    https://www.totalsportek.com/most-popular-sports/

    https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/what-are-the-most-popular-sports-in-the-world.html

    They all put cricket in the top three.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,298
    tlg86 said:

    I'm fairly confident that if such a thing occurs, Jeremy Hunt will not be PM. He's put himself forward to be PM as leader of the Tory Party, which I think rules him out. It's more likely, in my opinion, someone who hasn't been in the Cabinet recently.
    Clarke is one obvious choice in this deeply, deeply unlikely scenario, but I wonder about Nick Boles. He's actually left the Conservative party, which might make it easier for non-Tories to back him.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Stop. I can only get so aroused.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316
    Cyclefree said:

    How would / could that work?
    Under the fixed-term parliament act, the house has 14 days after a VONC in the governement to select an alternate government that it does have confidence in, or else a general election follows automatically. So the House is entitled to (for example) back a government of national unity led by Ken after kicking out Boris if it so chooses.

    It seems unlikely, but cometh the hour...
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,597

    Cyclefree said:

    How would / could that work?
    Be tricky but I guess that is why they are talking.

    Please, please though my wallet says, make Clarke PM before Boris gets to the Palace.
    I imagine an agreement to set a date for the GE would be an essential part of that.

    If these talks are in any way "real" and not just hyperbolic extrapolation of two backbenchers and a journo chewing the fat in a bar, that alone is quite extraordinary.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Heavily losing a leadership election and threatening to throw a strop if you don't get your way isn't a grown up way to act.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005

    HYUFD said:

    Fenster said:

    I'm Welsh so it's hard to praise an English sports team :) but this is one hell of a one-day team and deserved World champs.

    It's the Entland and Wales team though the and Wales tends to get dropped. So there should be no difficulty for you at all.
    Indeed, Robert Croft one example of a former Welsh England cricket team player
    Denness and (theoretically) Jardine both Scottish.
    It's a small part of the long tradition of England/Scotland/Wales/Ireland/NI/UK/Britain/nation/country/state obfuscation that keeps the show on the road.
    Jardine was brilliant, he wound up the Aussies by just breathing.

    He and Harold Larwood were shameful treated by the powers that be here.
    Must admit my view of Jardine was formed by the Bodyline tv series which tended to portray him as a bit of archetypal, sneering Englishman. It also rather coloured my view of the same actor's portrayal of Elrond.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Phil said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How would / could that work?
    Under the fixed-term parliament act, the house has 14 days after a VONC in the governement to select an alternate government that it does have confidence in, or else a general election follows automatically. So the House is entitled to (for example) back a government of national unity led by Ken after kicking out Boris if it so chooses.

    It seems unlikely, but cometh the hour...
    It may only need to be a government for a few days/weeks. Long enough to agree a decent extension with EU and then organize a GE. The GNU would simply be about stopping No Deal.

    The risk for the country is that when the GE finally happens there will be a counter reaction which gives Farage a massive wodge of rabid loon MPs like Widdecombe.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cyclefree said:

    How would / could that work?
    Government loses a VONC but a new PM emerges in the 14 day window of the fixed term Parliament act.
    While I would love to see Ken Clarke as PM, I don't see how he gets a majority in the Commons. Would he even get a majority of Tory MPs, given so many of them have gone the full Viceroy?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. Eagles, won't Boris become next PM de jure, even if his authority vanishes almost immediately?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    mwadams said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How would / could that work?
    Be tricky but I guess that is why they are talking.

    Please, please though my wallet says, make Clarke PM before Boris gets to the Palace.
    I imagine an agreement to set a date for the GE would be an essential part of that.

    If these talks are in any way "real" and not just hyperbolic extrapolation of two backbenchers and a journo chewing the fat in a bar, that alone is quite extraordinary.
    I don't believe for one second that Corbyn would give confidence to any GONU.

    Cross party probably means what people love to call so-called "moderates" and nowhere approaching 316 or so MPs needed to form a majority.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Heavily losing a leadership election and threatening to throw a strop if you don't get your way isn't a grown up way to act.
    If Boris does not command a majority then that’s on him. 🤷‍♂️
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Phil said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How would / could that work?
    Under the fixed-term parliament act, the house has 14 days after a VONC in the governement to select an alternate government that it does have confidence in, or else a general election follows automatically. So the House is entitled to (for example) back a government of national unity led by Ken after kicking out Boris if it so chooses.

    It seems unlikely, but cometh the hour...
    But surely (as I see @Cyclefree has also noted) that doesn't change the arithmetic in the Commons. There would not be a "coming together" by Labour for any Tory-fronted govt. This is the chance Lab have been waiting for and they are unlikely to want to patch up the open wound.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679
    edited July 2019

    HYUFD said:

    Fenster said:

    I'm Welsh so it's hard to praise an English sports team :) but this is one hell of a one-day team and deserved World champs.

    It's the Entland and Wales team though the and Wales tends to get dropped. So there should be no difficulty for you at all.
    Indeed, Robert Croft one example of a former Welsh England cricket team player
    Denness and (theoretically) Jardine both Scottish.
    It's a small part of the long tradition of England/Scotland/Wales/Ireland/NI/UK/Britain/nation/country/state obfuscation that keeps the show on the road.
    Jardine was brilliant, he wound up the Aussies by just breathing.

    He and Harold Larwood were shameful treated by the powers that be here.
    Must admit my view of Jardine was formed by the Bodyline tv series which tended to portray him as a bit of archetypal, sneering Englishman. It also rather coloured my view of the same actor's portrayal of Elrond.
    He really wasn’t.

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/engvaus/content/story/213701.html

    He even signed up to fight in World War II, he was injured at Dunkirk, never matched the Aussie parody of him.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    TOPPING said:

    Phil said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How would / could that work?
    Under the fixed-term parliament act, the house has 14 days after a VONC in the governement to select an alternate government that it does have confidence in, or else a general election follows automatically. So the House is entitled to (for example) back a government of national unity led by Ken after kicking out Boris if it so chooses.

    It seems unlikely, but cometh the hour...
    But surely (as I see @Cyclefree has also noted) that doesn't change the arithmetic in the Commons. There would not be a "coming together" by Labour for any Tory-fronted govt. This is the chance Lab have been waiting for and they are unlikely to want to patch up the open wound.
    Depends if its temporarily with the sole purpose of securing a Brexit extension followed by a GE.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,847
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How would / could that work?
    Government loses a VONC but a new PM emerges in the 14 day window of the fixed term Parliament act.
    While I would love to see Ken Clarke as PM, I don't see how he gets a majority in the Commons. Would he even get a majority of Tory MPs, given so many of them have gone the full Viceroy?
    You would need most of the Labour party, all the other parties and around 50-70 Tories. For that reason Cooper or Benn might be more likely, with Clarke, Letwin, Grieve and Boles involved in senior roles, possibly Hammond and Stewart as well.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406

    TOPPING said:

    Phil said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How would / could that work?
    Under the fixed-term parliament act, the house has 14 days after a VONC in the governement to select an alternate government that it does have confidence in, or else a general election follows automatically. So the House is entitled to (for example) back a government of national unity led by Ken after kicking out Boris if it so chooses.

    It seems unlikely, but cometh the hour...
    But surely (as I see @Cyclefree has also noted) that doesn't change the arithmetic in the Commons. There would not be a "coming together" by Labour for any Tory-fronted govt. This is the chance Lab have been waiting for and they are unlikely to want to patch up the open wound.
    Depends if its temporarily with the sole purpose of securing a Brexit extension followed by a GE.
    or even just revoking A50 and calling a General Election (as revoking would be quicker and doesn't require the rest of the EU).



  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    eek said:

    TOPPING said:

    Phil said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How would / could that work?
    Under the fixed-term parliament act, the house has 14 days after a VONC in the governement to select an alternate government that it does have confidence in, or else a general election follows automatically. So the House is entitled to (for example) back a government of national unity led by Ken after kicking out Boris if it so chooses.

    It seems unlikely, but cometh the hour...
    But surely (as I see @Cyclefree has also noted) that doesn't change the arithmetic in the Commons. There would not be a "coming together" by Labour for any Tory-fronted govt. This is the chance Lab have been waiting for and they are unlikely to want to patch up the open wound.
    Depends if its temporarily with the sole purpose of securing a Brexit extension followed by a GE.
    or even just revoking A50 and calling a General Election (as revoking would be quicker and doesn't require the rest of the EU).



    I’d be happy with that.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. Above, problem with Cooper/Benn is that Clarke is a respected elder statesman who is clearly not going to try and be a permanent PM. Whereas Cooper/Benn could have decades ahead of them, which means being PM would be both a huge career advantage and very helpful for Labour (Clarke being PM would not be correspondingly helpful for the Conservatives).
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316
    TOPPING said:

    Phil said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How would / could that work?
    Under the fixed-term parliament act, the house has 14 days after a VONC in the governement to select an alternate government that it does have confidence in, or else a general election follows automatically. So the House is entitled to (for example) back a government of national unity led by Ken after kicking out Boris if it so chooses.

    It seems unlikely, but cometh the hour...
    But surely (as I see @Cyclefree has also noted) that doesn't change the arithmetic in the Commons. There would not be a "coming together" by Labour for any Tory-fronted govt. This is the chance Lab have been waiting for and they are unlikely to want to patch up the open wound.
    These are unusual times! If the purpose of said government was purely to negotiate an extension to Brexit (again!) with the EU so that a GE could be carried out in good order without us falling into a No Deal crash out Brexit, then it seems plausible that Labour would vote for it.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    TOPPING said:

    Phil said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How would / could that work?
    Under the fixed-term parliament act, the house has 14 days after a VONC in the governement to select an alternate government that it does have confidence in, or else a general election follows automatically. So the House is entitled to (for example) back a government of national unity led by Ken after kicking out Boris if it so chooses.

    It seems unlikely, but cometh the hour...
    But surely (as I see @Cyclefree has also noted) that doesn't change the arithmetic in the Commons. There would not be a "coming together" by Labour for any Tory-fronted govt. This is the chance Lab have been waiting for and they are unlikely to want to patch up the open wound.
    Could it not be a move from labour MPs to distance themselves from cult corbyn in ‘the national interest’
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    Mr. Above, problem with Cooper/Benn is that Clarke is a respected elder statesman who is clearly not going to try and be a permanent PM. Whereas Cooper/Benn could have decades ahead of them, which means being PM would be both a huge career advantage and very helpful for Labour (Clarke being PM would not be correspondingly helpful for the Conservatives).

    Who's the equivalent on the Labour side? Dennis Skinner?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Interesting that in all the interviews with Hunt about the Iran crisis no one asks if he agrees with the Amassador's view that the treaty was reneged on to spite Obama.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How would / could that work?
    Government loses a VONC but a new PM emerges in the 14 day window of the fixed term Parliament act.
    While I would love to see Ken Clarke as PM, I don't see how he gets a majority in the Commons. Would he even get a majority of Tory MPs, given so many of them have gone the full Viceroy?
    You would need most of the Labour party, all the other parties and around 50-70 Tories. For that reason Cooper or Benn might be more likely, with Clarke, Letwin, Grieve and Boles involved in senior roles, possibly Hammond and Stewart as well.
    I don't see Labour doing this, certainly not under Corbyn and probably not under any other Labour leader.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Roger said:

    Interesting that in all the interviews with Hunt about the Iran crisis no one asks if he agrees with the Amassador's view that the treaty was reneged on to spite Obama.

    Not seen any interviews myself, but I can believe it. Sometimes the most obvious questions go unasked.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,597

    mwadams said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How would / could that work?
    Be tricky but I guess that is why they are talking.

    Please, please though my wallet says, make Clarke PM before Boris gets to the Palace.
    I imagine an agreement to set a date for the GE would be an essential part of that.

    If these talks are in any way "real" and not just hyperbolic extrapolation of two backbenchers and a journo chewing the fat in a bar, that alone is quite extraordinary.
    I don't believe for one second that Corbyn would give confidence to any GONU.

    Cross party probably means what people love to call so-called "moderates" and nowhere approaching 316 or so MPs needed to form a majority.
    The absence of 50-60 LDs somewhat unbalances the whole equation. You could just about conceive of 80-100 Tories, 150 Labourites, 60 LDs and a few assorted hangers on scraping something together, but 50-odd Tories, 80-odd Labourites and a handful of LDs are clearly not getting anywhere.

    I say that so I can be proven dramatically wrong!
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Most people are not tuned in to cricket - though I personally much prefer it to football. It is likely to pass most people by , and the highly technical nature of this win will incline many to the view that justice was not done with NZ effectively being robbed as the more deserving team.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. 86, there is no equivalent I can think of.

    Skinner hasn't held a string of high offices and is not generally considered to have been a competent Cabinet minister.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,133

    Scott_P said:

    Big G's MP.....not entirely popular with his constituents apparently.....
    He is a former Plaid member and is in real trouble in his constutuency long before he became a full on remainer and disregarding his manifesto my fellow members campaigned on for him. I do not want to turn on conservative mps who have different views but he was not suitable for the party and was likely to be deselected, not just on Brexit
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,597
    TOPPING said:

    Phil said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How would / could that work?
    Under the fixed-term parliament act, the house has 14 days after a VONC in the governement to select an alternate government that it does have confidence in, or else a general election follows automatically. So the House is entitled to (for example) back a government of national unity led by Ken after kicking out Boris if it so chooses.

    It seems unlikely, but cometh the hour...
    But surely (as I see @Cyclefree has also noted) that doesn't change the arithmetic in the Commons. There would not be a "coming together" by Labour for any Tory-fronted govt. This is the chance Lab have been waiting for and they are unlikely to want to patch up the open wound.
    The only point I would note is that I don't think Corbyn wants to be in Government. So while it might be what Labour in general (and indeed, others on the Lab front bench in particular) might want, I don't think "those around leadership" are remotely interested.

    However, I think the past year or two have demonstrated that the loyalty to the Labour brand/vision/ideology/history/name in the party are so great that it is unlikely ever to split. That has surely been tested to breaking point with the Twitter-only responses to the current crisis.

    That's what renders these notions of a GONU rather fanciful more even than "arithmetic".
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. Eagles, wasn't Cueto denied a try in the 2007 rugby world cup final?

    Such decisions can be rough.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How would / could that work?
    Government loses a VONC but a new PM emerges in the 14 day window of the fixed term Parliament act.
    While I would love to see Ken Clarke as PM, I don't see how he gets a majority in the Commons. Would he even get a majority of Tory MPs, given so many of them have gone the full Viceroy?
    Indeed this is what I have been saying. The newly-elected and with a strong mandate Party Leader would perfectly reasonably three line whip against I expect and any MPs to break the line would have to leave the party and not be Conservatives at the next election. How many Tories are prepared to defect from the party - Hammond claims 30 but in reality it will be fewer, already Rudd who was meant to be one of the 30 has shown she won't.

    Which leaves it in Corbyn's hands. I think he'd rather see the Tories fall in chaos then have an election than see an extension agreed first. He could either oppose a GONU or as a precondition for it insist he is PM for the GONU and will seek an election after an extension. Are there over 300 MPs prepared to make Corbyn PM?

    If not Corbyn, he can reject any GONU and any Labour MPs who back it would again probably need to defect from the party do so.

    I can't see hundreds of Tory and Labour MPs being prepared to defect from their parties. So a GONU must be headed or backed either by Corbyn or the Tory leader.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Phil said:

    TOPPING said:

    Phil said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How would / could that work?
    Under the fixed-term parliament act, the house has 14 days after a VONC in the governement to select an alternate government that it does have confidence in, or else a general election follows automatically. So the House is entitled to (for example) back a government of national unity led by Ken after kicking out Boris if it so chooses.

    It seems unlikely, but cometh the hour...
    But surely (as I see @Cyclefree has also noted) that doesn't change the arithmetic in the Commons. There would not be a "coming together" by Labour for any Tory-fronted govt. This is the chance Lab have been waiting for and they are unlikely to want to patch up the open wound.
    These are unusual times! If the purpose of said government was purely to negotiate an extension to Brexit (again!) with the EU so that a GE could be carried out in good order without us falling into a No Deal crash out Brexit, then it seems plausible that Labour would vote for it.
    Would/should Lab trust the Cons to do whatever they say they will do? Even Saint Ken thinks a Lab govt would be a disaster.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    nichomar said:

    TOPPING said:

    Phil said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How would / could that work?
    Under the fixed-term parliament act, the house has 14 days after a VONC in the governement to select an alternate government that it does have confidence in, or else a general election follows automatically. So the House is entitled to (for example) back a government of national unity led by Ken after kicking out Boris if it so chooses.

    It seems unlikely, but cometh the hour...
    But surely (as I see @Cyclefree has also noted) that doesn't change the arithmetic in the Commons. There would not be a "coming together" by Labour for any Tory-fronted govt. This is the chance Lab have been waiting for and they are unlikely to want to patch up the open wound.
    Could it not be a move from labour MPs to distance themselves from cult corbyn in ‘the national interest’
    Could be - but that is a long way from supporting a Cons PM for however long. cf. all those Cons who say they don't want no deal but would stop short of vonc their own govt.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679

    Mr. Eagles, wasn't Cueto denied a try in the 2007 rugby world cup final?

    Such decisions can be rough.

    Yup.

    Lest we forget the 2010 and 1986 association football world cups where England were cheated out of those tournaments.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    mwadams said:

    TOPPING said:

    Phil said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How would / could that work?
    Under the fixed-term parliament act, the house has 14 days after a VONC in the governement to select an alternate government that it does have confidence in, or else a general election follows automatically. So the House is entitled to (for example) back a government of national unity led by Ken after kicking out Boris if it so chooses.

    It seems unlikely, but cometh the hour...
    But surely (as I see @Cyclefree has also noted) that doesn't change the arithmetic in the Commons. There would not be a "coming together" by Labour for any Tory-fronted govt. This is the chance Lab have been waiting for and they are unlikely to want to patch up the open wound.
    The only point I would note is that I don't think Corbyn wants to be in Government. So while it might be what Labour in general (and indeed, others on the Lab front bench in particular) might want, I don't think "those around leadership" are remotely interested.

    However, I think the past year or two have demonstrated that the loyalty to the Labour brand/vision/ideology/history/name in the party are so great that it is unlikely ever to split. That has surely been tested to breaking point with the Twitter-only responses to the current crisis.

    That's what renders these notions of a GONU rather fanciful more even than "arithmetic".
    Agree.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    I see the eco fascists are in bristol all this week...have they not got jobs to be doing?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,133
    justin124 said:

    Most people are not tuned in to cricket - though I personally much prefer it to football. It is likely to pass most people by , and the highly technical nature of this win will incline many to the view that justice was not done with NZ effectively being robbed as the more deserving team.

    NZ were not robbed but they were unlucky.

    Remember this was not a one off match, there were a whole series of matches which each team had to come through and England demolishing Australia in the semi was a fantastic result which alone gives the lie to one team being the most deserving
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679
    edited July 2019
    The nation of New Zealand deserves an eternity of sporting bad luck after their vile spear tackle on Brian O’Driscoll in 2005.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    mwadams said:

    mwadams said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How would / could that work?
    Be tricky but I guess that is why they are talking.

    Please, please though my wallet says, make Clarke PM before Boris gets to the Palace.
    I imagine an agreement to set a date for the GE would be an essential part of that.

    If these talks are in any way "real" and not just hyperbolic extrapolation of two backbenchers and a journo chewing the fat in a bar, that alone is quite extraordinary.
    I don't believe for one second that Corbyn would give confidence to any GONU.

    Cross party probably means what people love to call so-called "moderates" and nowhere approaching 316 or so MPs needed to form a majority.
    The absence of 50-60 LDs somewhat unbalances the whole equation. You could just about conceive of 80-100 Tories, 150 Labourites, 60 LDs and a few assorted hangers on scraping something together, but 50-odd Tories, 80-odd Labourites and a handful of LDs are clearly not getting anywhere.

    I say that so I can be proven dramatically wrong!
    There aren't even 50-odd Tories. Hammond has claimed 30 but Rudd was meant to be one of them and her words say otherwise.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133

    justin124 said:

    Most people are not tuned in to cricket - though I personally much prefer it to football. It is likely to pass most people by , and the highly technical nature of this win will incline many to the view that justice was not done with NZ effectively being robbed as the more deserving team.

    NZ were not robbed but they were unlucky.

    Remember this was not a one off match, there were a whole series of matches which each team had to come through and England demolishing Australia in the semi was a fantastic result which alone gives the lie to one team being the most deserving
    The best team in ODIs over the past few years won the tournament, beating australia, new zealand and india on the way to the final.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    justin124 said:

    Most people are not tuned in to cricket - though I personally much prefer it to football. It is likely to pass most people by , and the highly technical nature of this win will incline many to the view that justice was not done with NZ effectively being robbed as the more deserving team.

    I think that it was close enough that either side would have been worthy winners, regardless of how the luck played out.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217

    justin124 said:

    Most people are not tuned in to cricket - though I personally much prefer it to football. It is likely to pass most people by , and the highly technical nature of this win will incline many to the view that justice was not done with NZ effectively being robbed as the more deserving team.

    I think that it was close enough that either side would have been worthy winners, regardless of how the luck played out.
    Same was true with the tennis yesterday.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    edited July 2019
    Ouch.
    Which umpire made the ruling on the day ...?

    Too late to affect the result, but we ought to apologise to NZ.

    Though Adil is quite capable of having hit the winning runs (or getting out to an absurd swipe).
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    The nation of New Zealand deserves an eternity of sporting bad luck after their vile spear tackle on Brian O’Driscoll in 2005.

    That's pretty unreasonable TSE.. Williamson is the epitome of a decent bloke.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,597

    mwadams said:

    mwadams said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How would / could that work?
    Be tricky but I guess that is why they are talking.

    Please, please though my wallet says, make Clarke PM before Boris gets to the Palace.
    I imagine an agreement to set a date for the GE would be an essential part of that.

    If these talks are in any way "real" and not just hyperbolic extrapolation of two backbenchers and a journo chewing the fat in a bar, that alone is quite extraordinary.
    I don't believe for one second that Corbyn would give confidence to any GONU.

    Cross party probably means what people love to call so-called "moderates" and nowhere approaching 316 or so MPs needed to form a majority.
    The absence of 50-60 LDs somewhat unbalances the whole equation. You could just about conceive of 80-100 Tories, 150 Labourites, 60 LDs and a few assorted hangers on scraping something together, but 50-odd Tories, 80-odd Labourites and a handful of LDs are clearly not getting anywhere.

    I say that so I can be proven dramatically wrong!
    There aren't even 50-odd Tories. Hammond has claimed 30 but Rudd was meant to be one of them and her words say otherwise.
    The assumption would have to be that if there are, say 20-odd right now, but a "credible" alternative and some heavy hitters who are not part of that 20 step up to create a GONU, you could get to 40 or 50. The flaw being that you aren't going to get a number of heavy hitters stepping up if there are only 20-odd prepared to jump right now.

    On the other hand, if there were 50-odd right now, and the heavy hitters stepped up, you could see how you could get to 80-100. Again, purely hypothetical, as the conditions don't exist.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    The law is a grey area. The umpires might have deemed the act to be the ball hitting the bat.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    Congratulations to the England cricket team and while I don't think there is a great link between sport and politics the Blair government in 2005 after the 2003 rugby world cup win was re elected, albeit the 1966 World Cup soccer win cane before that year's general election in 1970 the Wilson Government was voted out after England went out

    Not true. The 1966 General Election took place on 31st March - four months ahead of the World Cup Final.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Second. And I wished I shared OGH optimism. But Trump has just let his racist mask slip and will double down rather than apologise and shortly the Tories and us will be lumbered with an incompetent for PM. Good to see Mrs May enjoying the cricket. I suspect history will be kinder to her than her successor.

    Nanci Pelosi can't even bring herself to use the word racist. She alludes to it but the best she can manage is xenophobic.

    The Dems are fucked.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,133
    Nigelb said:

    Ouch.
    Which umpire made the ruling on the day ...?

    Too late to affect the result, but we ought to apologise to NZ.
    Stoke's apologised on the field the minute it happened.

    Umpire's make mistakes all the time, non more so when Roy was given out closing in on his century v Australia and he was not out by any stretch of the imagination

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217
    I think as Lampard's incorrectly disallowed goal was the catalyst for improvements to football technology (Goal line tech), so the first ball lbw of Roy might well adjust the ball hitting stumps to perhaps 25% of the ball.

    The misapplication of rule 19.8 was simply an error by those the umpires. However that should have been referred up to Rod Tucker, where he could have consulted the rules.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited July 2019
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    How would / could that work?
    Government loses a VONC but a new PM emerges in the 14 day window of the fixed term Parliament act.
    While I would love to see Ken Clarke as PM, I don't see how he gets a majority in the Commons. Would he even get a majority of Tory MPs, given so many of them have gone the full Viceroy?
    But wouldn't him being elected leader and on day one being replaced as PM by someone chosen by the House be the more fantabulous result imaginable.....

    Better than the '66 Word Cup the Rugby Word Cup the Cricket World Cup and Murray's Wimbledon all rolled into one
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    Nigelb said:

    Ouch.
    Which umpire made the ruling on the day ...?

    Too late to affect the result, but we ought to apologise to NZ.
    Stoke's apologised on the field the minute it happened.

    Umpire's make mistakes all the time, non more so when Roy was given out closing in on his century v Australia and he was not out by any stretch of the imagination

    There's a big difference between an official making an error of judgement and error of law. On this occasion I think there's sufficient wriggle room in the law meaning it's plausible that they got it right. And I didn't notice NZ kicking off about it at the time.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Nigelb said:

    Ouch.
    Which umpire made the ruling on the day ...?

    Too late to affect the result, but we ought to apologise to NZ.

    Though Adil is quite capable of having hit the winning runs (or getting out to an absurd swipe).
    Surely if a mistake has been clearly identified, it ought to be corrected! We would expect nothing less from an error discovered in an election count.Failing to do so makes the result appear pretty fraudulent - or at best contrived.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited July 2019
    As an adjunct to a review, if reviews are expired, why not allow the the teams additional reviews at a cost of 10 runs if they get it wrong? That would have saved Roy..
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    Surely not umpire dharmasena has made another balls up?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217
    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ouch.
    Which umpire made the ruling on the day ...?

    Too late to affect the result, but we ought to apologise to NZ.
    Stoke's apologised on the field the minute it happened.

    Umpire's make mistakes all the time, non more so when Roy was given out closing in on his century v Australia and he was not out by any stretch of the imagination

    There's a big difference between an official making an error of judgement and error of law. On this occasion I think there's sufficient wriggle room in the law meaning it's plausible that they got it right. And I didn't notice NZ kicking off about it at the time.
    The act had to have been "wilful". If Stokes act had been "wilful" then he would have been out obstructing the field. Since it was not "wilful" the throw clearly should have been the correct point at which the runs were considered.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    justin124 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ouch.
    Which umpire made the ruling on the day ...?

    Too late to affect the result, but we ought to apologise to NZ.

    Though Adil is quite capable of having hit the winning runs (or getting out to an absurd swipe).
    Surely if a mistake has been clearly identified, it ought to be corrected! We would expect nothing less from an error discovered in an election count.Failing to do so makes the result appear pretty fraudulent - or at best contrived.
    The umpire's ruling at the time is final.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    tlg86 said:
    I'm surprised the viewing figures for the cricket was so low - we flicked over as soon as the tennis was finished...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    justin124 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ouch.
    Which umpire made the ruling on the day ...?

    Too late to affect the result, but we ought to apologise to NZ.

    Though Adil is quite capable of having hit the winning runs (or getting out to an absurd swipe).
    Surely if a mistake has been clearly identified, it ought to be corrected! We would expect nothing less from an error discovered in an election count.Failing to do so makes the result appear pretty fraudulent - or at best contrived.
    Umpires regularly make mistakes in cricket, its part of the game. Roy was given out in the semi final and wasn't.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ouch.
    Which umpire made the ruling on the day ...?

    Too late to affect the result, but we ought to apologise to NZ.
    Stoke's apologised on the field the minute it happened.

    Umpire's make mistakes all the time, non more so when Roy was given out closing in on his century v Australia and he was not out by any stretch of the imagination

    There's a big difference between an official making an error of judgement and error of law. On this occasion I think there's sufficient wriggle room in the law meaning it's plausible that they got it right. And I didn't notice NZ kicking off about it at the time.
    I don't think either team were aware of the particular rule at that moment - Stokes clearly didn't want the extra runs (and would not have run any had the ball failed to reach the boundary), and NZ didn't ask the umpire to reconsider.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912
    justin124 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ouch.
    Which umpire made the ruling on the day ...?

    Too late to affect the result, but we ought to apologise to NZ.

    Though Adil is quite capable of having hit the winning runs (or getting out to an absurd swipe).
    Surely if a mistake has been clearly identified, it ought to be corrected! We would expect nothing less from an error discovered in an election count.Failing to do so makes the result appear pretty fraudulent - or at best contrived.
    Are you going to review every decision in the match? And what about all the preceding matches as well?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited July 2019
    It always amazes me that baseball has the same tech as hawkeye for every single game, but the players and fans accept that every umpire "sees" the strike zone quite differently. Some are known for allowing much larger area, it is just part and parcel of the game, despite the tech being there to precisely define what is right / wrong.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    edited July 2019
    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ouch.
    Which umpire made the ruling on the day ...?

    Too late to affect the result, but we ought to apologise to NZ.
    Stoke's apologised on the field the minute it happened.

    Umpire's make mistakes all the time, non more so when Roy was given out closing in on his century v Australia and he was not out by any stretch of the imagination

    There's a big difference between an official making an error of judgement and error of law. On this occasion I think there's sufficient wriggle room in the law meaning it's plausible that they got it right. And I didn't notice NZ kicking off about it at the time.
    The act had to have been "wilful". If Stokes act had been "wilful" then he would have been out obstructing the field. Since it was not "wilful" the throw clearly should have been the correct point at which the runs were considered.
    In that case this is quite a serious error, though a good example of why competitive sports people should know the laws.

    That said, it seems an odd law to me - why give the umpires the hassle of something else to look out for?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679
    Aussie Awful Taufel is assuming the act was the throw but other umpires say the act is the moment the ball hit Stokes.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Nigelb said:

    justin124 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ouch.
    Which umpire made the ruling on the day ...?

    Too late to affect the result, but we ought to apologise to NZ.

    Though Adil is quite capable of having hit the winning runs (or getting out to an absurd swipe).
    Surely if a mistake has been clearly identified, it ought to be corrected! We would expect nothing less from an error discovered in an election count.Failing to do so makes the result appear pretty fraudulent - or at best contrived.
    The umpire's ruling at the time is final.
    Quite right too because all action that follows is based on the prior rulings.

    Had we played on knowing we needed a 4 rather than runs then the batsman would have played the delivery differently.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912

    justin124 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ouch.
    Which umpire made the ruling on the day ...?

    Too late to affect the result, but we ought to apologise to NZ.

    Though Adil is quite capable of having hit the winning runs (or getting out to an absurd swipe).
    Surely if a mistake has been clearly identified, it ought to be corrected! We would expect nothing less from an error discovered in an election count.Failing to do so makes the result appear pretty fraudulent - or at best contrived.
    Umpires regularly make mistakes in cricket, its part of the game. Roy was given out in the semi final and wasn't.
    Exactly. People saying "if not for this so-and-so would have won" also need to remember that there will have been many more mistakes over the course of tournament.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    theakes said:

    Feel good is an anachronism. 1966 June World Cup, did the Government not LOSE the Carmarthen by election one month later, followed by a number of losses in 1967, and then the Toies steaming ahead in the polls.

    No - the World Cup was held at the end of July 1966 a couple of weeks later than Plaid's win at Carmarthen.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Aussie Awful Taufel is assuming the act was the throw but other umpires say the act is the moment the ball hit Stokes.

    Indeed just like when the batsman is caught out the relevant moment is if they had crossed when the ball is caught not when the ball is played.
This discussion has been closed.