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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If Boris Johnson tries to deliver on his promise of a No Deal

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  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    53% of UK energy is currently being produced by wind or solar power.

    https://gridwatch.templar.co.uk

    Much of the wind from PB at times .... :wink:
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    Nigelb said:

    Starting to look ominous for England.

    They still need >8 per over from here. We could do with a wicket though.
    7 an over at the moment which makes it finely poised

    England ruing the drop and India ruing their poor start in run terms.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    Alistair said:

    Partly prompted by @Pulpstar I have today backed Joe Biden at 7.2 and Bernie Sanders at 12.5 for the Democrat nomination. Sure, they underperformed in the debate but they still seem to be the two front runners in the polls and they both seem to have been oversold.

    This is one of those situations where you need to predict the market and not the facts.

    I agree Biden is currently too long at 7.2, hilariously so. But I can easily see him staying there all the way to Iowa where he comes in third and then his price totally balloons.

    Just because the polls are giving him a massive lead doesn't mean the market is going to correct itself.
    Yes, perception is all.
    It’s an interesting contest specifically because it’s not a two way fight. We could easily see four or five candidates staying in deep into the contest.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627

    F1: stewards meeting at 5pm.

    Faffing.

    Waiting for the Dutch fans to leave the circuit?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. Sandpit, probably couldn't arrange escape by helicopter any sooner.

    If F1 has a questionable decision alter the winner in Canada, a very boring race in France, and a classic in Austria with the winner again changed by stewards after the race has finished a lot of people are going to be hacked off.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    F1: stewards meeting at 5pm.

    Faffing.

    Wait for the fans to go home, then penalise Verstappen.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679
    Alistair said:

    Partly prompted by @Pulpstar I have today backed Joe Biden at 7.2 and Bernie Sanders at 12.5 for the Democrat nomination. Sure, they underperformed in the debate but they still seem to be the two front runners in the polls and they both seem to have been oversold.

    Is this another market I'm going to have to reverse ferret in?
    You can relive your 2016 Republican nominee glory days.
    Praise Allah for Marco Rubio.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Nigelb said:

    Starting to look ominous for England.

    They still need >8 per over from here. We could do with a wicket though.
    7 an over at the moment which makes it finely poised

    England ruing the drop and India ruing their poor start in run terms.
    Much more of this hitting, and it’s going to be goodnight England.

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Well today is a sad day to be a Newcastle United fan.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Starting to look ominous for England.

    They still need >8 per over from here. We could do with a wicket though.
    7 an over at the moment which makes it finely poised

    England ruing the drop and India ruing their poor start in run terms.
    Much more of this hitting, and it’s going to be goodnight England.

    Rather premature. A wicket can change a lot. Based on the rule of thumb of double the score of 30 overs India still seem a bit below par.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Well today is a sad day to be a Newcastle United fan.

    As was yesterday and the day before ... ;)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Starting to look ominous for England.

    They still need >8 per over from here. We could do with a wicket though.
    7 an over at the moment which makes it finely poised

    England ruing the drop and India ruing their poor start in run terms.
    Much more of this hitting, and it’s going to be goodnight England.

    Rather premature. A wicket can change a lot. Based on the rule of thumb of double the score of 30 overs India still seem a bit below par.
    I got laughed at on here earlier (quite correctly, as it turned out!) for suggesting that England, being 200/1 after 30 overs, might have come close to 400. In fact, their run rate barely changed for the last 20 overs.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    edited June 2019

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Starting to look ominous for England.

    They still need >8 per over from here. We could do with a wicket though.
    7 an over at the moment which makes it finely poised

    England ruing the drop and India ruing their poor start in run terms.
    Much more of this hitting, and it’s going to be goodnight England.

    Rather premature. A wicket can change a lot. Based on the rule of thumb of double the score of 30 overs India still seem a bit below par.
    I didn’t want to say anything for fear of jinxing us.


    So it’s still looking ominous.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    IanB2 said:

    A poll for HY:

    ”In total 93% of constituencies have seen a move to Remain with just 7% in the opposite direction, the analysis shows.”

    https://t.co/rHZ4wmPRXz

    Seems to be an England and Wales only survey?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    PANTS ON FIRE!!!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679

    Well today is a sad day to be a Newcastle United fan.

    I feel your pain.

    In June 2010 Rafa Benitez was forced out of Liverpool by awful owners.

    Within four months they had been ousted and lost £144 million.

    It can get better very quickly.

    Hopefully without the Roy Hodgson interlude.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Starting to look ominous for England.

    They still need >8 per over from here. We could do with a wicket though.
    7 an over at the moment which makes it finely poised

    England ruing the drop and India ruing their poor start in run terms.
    Much more of this hitting, and it’s going to be goodnight England.

    Rather premature. A wicket can change a lot. Based on the rule of thumb of double the score of 30 overs India still seem a bit below par.
    I got laughed at on here earlier (quite correctly, as it turned out!) for suggesting that England, being 200/1 after 30 overs, might have come close to 400. In fact, their run rate barely changed for the last 20 overs.
    If we hadn't lost so many wickets so swiftly after each other we could have done. Let's hope India can't accelerate either.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Starting to look ominous for England.

    They still need >8 per over from here. We could do with a wicket though.
    7 an over at the moment which makes it finely poised

    England ruing the drop and India ruing their poor start in run terms.
    Much more of this hitting, and it’s going to be goodnight England.

    Rather premature. A wicket can change a lot. Based on the rule of thumb of double the score of 30 overs India still seem a bit below par.
    I got laughed at on here earlier (quite correctly, as it turned out!) for suggesting that England, being 200/1 after 30 overs, might have come close to 400. In fact, their run rate barely changed for the last 20 overs.
    If we hadn't lost so many wickets so swiftly after each other we could have done. Let's hope India can't accelerate either.
    We were about 220 off 36, that's the mark I think. If we can get them under 200, that would be best
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Well today is a sad day to be a Newcastle United fan.

    I feel your pain.

    In June 2010 Rafa Benitez was forced out of Liverpool by awful owners.

    Within four months they had been ousted and lost £144 million.

    It can get better very quickly.

    Hopefully without the Roy Hodgson interlude.
    That will do me as long as there's no Alan Pardew interlude.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005
    Looking at the calendar, it looks to me that if Parliament wants to block No Deal Brexit, they have a couple of working days to do it after the election of Boris (as expected). No more.

    Assume Boris is intransigent and refuses; Parliament has to recourse to a VoNC. Assume that passes. When is the last safe date?

    Work back from 31st October (a Thursday). An election on that date is too late, unless the PM has already requested an extension.

    So the last safe date for an election is 24th October. With 25 working days required, that makes the calling of the election either the 18th or 19th of September (depending on whether the 25 working days includes the day that the election is called or not. At least there are no Bank Holidays to confuse matters)

    If the election is called by the expiry of the two week clock after a VoNC, that means the VoNC has to be no later than the 4th or 5th of September. Possibly the 3rd, depending on whether the day of the VoNC is included in those two weeks. (Unless, of course, Parliament selects and votes confidence in an alternative PM. Which gives the question: will everyone, including the expected rebel Tories, LDs, Independents, SNP, etc, unite behind Corbyn? I have considerable doubts there. And if not, will Corbyn and the Corbynites (great name for a band; are they at Glastonbury this year?) willingly accept another candidate? After all, he is the Leader of the Opposition. If so, who would unite the House?)

    So - unless Boris voluntarily blinks, and unless the House unites behind someone (which I find hard to see, but it could just be me), whatever ultimatum or manouevres Parliament attempt must be completed in time for a VoNC by 3rd September (to be safe) or 5th September (getting everyone scouring the lines of the legislation).

    The House rises for summer recess on July 25th and returns on 3rd September, right? The accepted accession of The Boris is July 23rd. That's two to four working days.

    Boris doesn't need to prorogue Parliament. Just string them along for a couple of working days; job done. Or am I missing something really obvious?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Well today is a sad day to be a Newcastle United fan.

    I feel your pain.

    In June 2010 Rafa Benitez was forced out of Liverpool by awful owners.

    Within four months they had been ousted and lost £144 million.

    It can get better very quickly.

    Hopefully without the Roy Hodgson interlude.
    Nobody is looking back thinking I wish we still had Hicks and Gillett.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    edited June 2019
    Interestingly, Betfair have paid out their F1 markets. Their Ts and Cs state that the published result at the time of the podium ceremony will settle their markets.

    Not affecting me, but will no doubt annoy a few people (who will be reminded to look more closely next time at the terms of the market).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Starting to look ominous for England.

    They still need >8 per over from here. We could do with a wicket though.
    7 an over at the moment which makes it finely poised

    England ruing the drop and India ruing their poor start in run terms.
    Much more of this hitting, and it’s going to be goodnight England.

    Rather premature. A wicket can change a lot. Based on the rule of thumb of double the score of 30 overs India still seem a bit below par.
    I got laughed at on here earlier (quite correctly, as it turned out!) for suggesting that England, being 200/1 after 30 overs, might have come close to 400. In fact, their run rate barely changed for the last 20 overs.
    If we hadn't lost so many wickets so swiftly after each other we could have done. Let's hope India can't accelerate either.
    We were about 220 off 36, that's the mark I think. If we can get them under 200, that would be best
    Key is going to be what happens with our more expensive bowlers, and how Morgan can shuffle them.

    ....Wood back for two instantaneous boundaries.

  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Starting to look ominous for England.

    They still need >8 per over from here. We could do with a wicket though.
    7 an over at the moment which makes it finely poised

    England ruing the drop and India ruing their poor start in run terms.
    Much more of this hitting, and it’s going to be goodnight England.

    Rather premature. A wicket can change a lot. Based on the rule of thumb of double the score of 30 overs India still seem a bit below par.
    I got laughed at on here earlier (quite correctly, as it turned out!) for suggesting that England, being 200/1 after 30 overs, might have come close to 400. In fact, their run rate barely changed for the last 20 overs.
    If we hadn't lost so many wickets so swiftly after each other we could have done. Let's hope India can't accelerate either.
    We were about 220 off 36, that's the mark I think. If we can get them under 200, that would be best
    Key is going to be what happens with our more expensive bowlers, and how Morgan can shuffle them.

    ....Wood back for two instantaneous boundaries.

    We only need one more over from Rashid or Stokes, though. So Wood is the "expensive" one (and he hasn't been too bad)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    Charles said:

    For me it hinges on the principle of consent for NI.

    It is difficult to argue against allowing the NI a referendum on whether to have a backstop or a hard border.

    The DUP might try, but I doubt it would win them many friends in the region, which might give them pause for reflection.

    Force the extremists to face the consequences of their intransigence.

    If we have a hard border with the consent of the people of NI, then that's their choice. If they chose to maintain the current fudged situation then that's their choice as well

    +1
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    Surely Johnson's plan will be not to declare he's going to take us out without a deal, but to keep up the pretence of renegotiation until it's too late for a vote of no confidence?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Well today is a sad day to be a Newcastle United fan.

    I feel your pain.

    In June 2010 Rafa Benitez was forced out of Liverpool by awful owners.

    Within four months they had been ousted and lost £144 million.

    It can get better very quickly.

    Hopefully without the Roy Hodgson interlude.
    That will do me as long as there's no Alan Pardew interlude.
    I wouldn't put Newcastle past an Alan Partridge interlude.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    Partly prompted by @Pulpstar I have today backed Joe Biden at 7.2 and Bernie Sanders at 12.5 for the Democrat nomination. Sure, they underperformed in the debate but they still seem to be the two front runners in the polls and they both seem to have been oversold.

    Is this another market I'm going to have to reverse ferret in?
    Harris has had a good few days, but I still think Dems will end up going safety first with Biden.

    But he needs to shake himself up a bit. He lacked energy in that debate. Age will become an issue if there is not more spark. The line “My time is up. I’m sorry” was an obvious gaffe.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. Sandpit, a 7.8 winner is nice, though I'm still miffed the Vettel qualifying bet was doomed by misfortune.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627

    Mr. Sandpit, a 7.8 winner is nice, though I'm still miffed the Vettel qualifying bet was doomed by misfortune.

    I had a very red day today. My only win was on no laps being led by Bernd Mäylander.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    For me it hinges on the principle of consent for NI.

    It is difficult to argue against allowing the NI a referendum on whether to have a backstop or a hard border.

    The DUP might try, but I doubt it would win them many friends in the region, which might give them pause for reflection.

    Force the extremists to face the consequences of their intransigence.

    If we have a hard border with the consent of the people of NI, then that's their choice. If they chose to maintain the current fudged situation then that's their choice as well

    +1
    +1 on condition that the people of NI can change the situation unilaterally in the future.

    Given they will in the backstop be following laws they have no say in they must have a unilateral right to exit that or there is no ongoing principle of consent.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    F1: I'm not saying fans don't take it seriously, but they just voted Kubica driver of the day.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237

    PANTS ON FIRE!!!

    Having been dropped?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605
    edited June 2019
    rkrkrk said:

    Betting on a VONC looks value at those odds.

    As to No Deal, am increasingly worried the EU may lose patience and kick us out in October. That might alter the blame game somewhat but suspect is bad news for all concerned.

    No Deal will hurt Ireland both economically and with a hard border.

    I think it is much more likely that the EU will give us a four year extension.

    "You've got your MEPS, you have access to the Single Market, you are paying your contributions. We have much more important issues to sort out than Brexit. Come back to us when you have decided what you want with a majority in parliament and don't waste our time. You know our red lines."
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869

    Looking at the calendar, it looks to me that if Parliament wants to block No Deal Brexit, they have a couple of working days to do it after the election of Boris (as expected). No more.

    Assume Boris is intransigent and refuses; Parliament has to recourse to a VoNC. Assume that passes. When is the last safe date?

    Work back from 31st October (a Thursday). An election on that date is too late, unless the PM has already requested an extension.

    So the last safe date for an election is 24th October. With 25 working days required, that makes the calling of the election either the 18th or 19th of September (depending on whether the 25 working days includes the day that the election is called or not. At least there are no Bank Holidays to confuse matters)

    If the election is called by the expiry of the two week clock after a VoNC, that means the VoNC has to be no later than the 4th or 5th of September. Possibly the 3rd, depending on whether the day of the VoNC is included in those two weeks. (Unless, of course, Parliament selects and votes confidence in an alternative PM. Which gives the question: will everyone, including the expected rebel Tories, LDs, Independents, SNP, etc, unite behind Corbyn? I have considerable doubts there. And if not, will Corbyn and the Corbynites (great name for a band; are they at Glastonbury this year?) willingly accept another candidate? After all, he is the Leader of the Opposition. If so, who would unite the House?)

    So - unless Boris voluntarily blinks, and unless the House unites behind someone (which I find hard to see, but it could just be me), whatever ultimatum or manouevres Parliament attempt must be completed in time for a VoNC by 3rd September (to be safe) or 5th September (getting everyone scouring the lines of the legislation).

    The House rises for summer recess on July 25th and returns on 3rd September, right? The accepted accession of The Boris is July 23rd. That's two to four working days.

    Boris doesn't need to prorogue Parliament. Just string them along for a couple of working days; job done. Or am I missing something really obvious?

    Most legislatures have a procedure for recalling themselves from recess in an emergency?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237

    +1 on condition that the people of NI can change the situation unilaterally in the future.

    Given they will in the backstop be following laws they have no say in they must have a unilateral right to exit that or there is no ongoing principle of consent.

    Then it's not a backstop. For it to be a backstop you can have a time limit but you can't have a unilateral right of exit.

    Groundhog Day.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Barnesian said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Betting on a VONC looks value at those odds.

    As to No Deal, am increasingly worried the EU may lose patience and kick us out in October. That might alter the blame game somewhat but suspect is bad news for all concerned.

    No Deal will hurt Ireland both economically and with a hard border.

    I think it is much more likely that the EU will give us a four year extension.

    "You've got your MEPS, you have access to the Single Market, you are paying your contributions. We have much more important issues to sort out than Brexit. Come back to us when you have decided what you want with a majority in parliament and don't waste our time. You know our red lines."
    That’s possible. And, cynically, it plays into the hands of those who want a continuing grievance. But they wouldn’t really be “kicking us out” come October. The extension will just expire by automatic operation of law and, really, that’s all the EU is - a collection of laws. It would require a positive action on their part, just a passive decision not to act
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    'Vote Tory, get Corbyn': Nigel Farage demands the Tories STAND ASIDE and give the Brexit Party a free run in Labour seats as he unveils more than ONE HUNDRED candidates to stand in a general election

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7197957/Brexit-Party-unveils-ONE-candidates-stand-general-election.html
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    edited June 2019
    Will Northern Labour MPs break their own Whip and push a Boris deal over the line?

    They might if it becomes clear Boris will stand aside in their seats to let Farage have a clear run if we need an early GE.

    Is this the way out of the mess?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    IanB2 said:

    Looking at the calendar, it looks to me that if Parliament wants to block No Deal Brexit, they have a couple of working days to do it after the election of Boris (as expected). No more.

    Assume Boris is intransigent and refuses; Parliament has to recourse to a VoNC. Assume that passes. When is the last safe date?

    Work back from 31st October (a Thursday). An election on that date is too late, unless the PM has already requested an extension.

    So the last safe date for an election is 24th October. With 25 working days required, that makes the calling of the election either the 18th or 19th of September (depending on whether the 25 working days includes the day that the election is called or not. At least there are no Bank Holidays to confuse matters)

    If the election is called by the expiry of the two week clock after a VoNC, that means the VoNC has to be no later than the 4th or 5th of September. Possibly the 3rd, depending on whether the day of the VoNC is included in those two weeks. (Unless, of course, Parliament selects and votes confidence in an alternative PM. Which gives the question: will everyone, including the expected rebel Tories, LDs, Independents, SNP, etc, unite behind Corbyn? I have considerable doubts there. And if not, will Corbyn and the Corbynites (great name for a band; are they at Glastonbury this year?) willingly accept another candidate? After all, he is the Leader of the Opposition. If so, who would unite the House?)

    So - unless Boris voluntarily blinks, and unless the House unites behind someone (which I find hard to see, but it could just be me), whatever ultimatum or manouevres Parliament attempt must be completed in time for a VoNC by 3rd September (to be safe) or 5th September (getting everyone scouring the lines of the legislation).

    The House rises for summer recess on July 25th and returns on 3rd September, right? The accepted accession of The Boris is July 23rd. That's two to four working days.

    Boris doesn't need to prorogue Parliament. Just string them along for a couple of working days; job done. Or am I missing something really obvious?

    Most legislatures have a procedure for recalling themselves from recess in an emergency?
    Commons could legislate for a shorter GE campaign than five weeks. Relatively recent thing.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    IanB2 said:

    Looking at the calendar, it looks to me that if Parliament wants to block No Deal Brexit, they have a couple of working days to do it after the election of Boris (as expected). No more.

    Assume Boris is intransigent and refuses; Parliament has to recourse to a VoNC. Assume that passes. When is the last safe date?

    Work back from 31st October (a Thursday). An election on that date is too late, unless the PM has already requested an extension.

    So the last safe date for an election is 24th October. With 25 working days required, that makes the calling of the election either the 18th or 19th of September (depending on whether the 25 working days includes the day that the election is called or not. At least there are no Bank Holidays to confuse matters)

    If the election is called by the expiry of the two week clock after a VoNC, that means the VoNC has to be no later than the 4th or 5th of September. Possibly the 3rd, depending on whether the day of the VoNC is included in those two weeks. (Unless, of course, Parliament selects and votes confidence in an alternative PM. Which gives the question: will everyone, including the expected rebel Tories, LDs, Independents, SNP, etc, unite behind Corbyn? I have considerable doubts there. And if not, will Corbyn and the Corbynites (great name for a band; are they at Glastonbury this year?) willingly accept another candidate? After all, he is the Leader of the Opposition. If so, who would unite the House?)

    So - unless Boris voluntarily blinks, and unless the House unites behind someone (which I find hard to see, but it could just be me), whatever ultimatum or manouevres Parliament attempt must be completed in time for a VoNC by 3rd September (to be safe) or 5th September (getting everyone scouring the lines of the legislation).

    The House rises for summer recess on July 25th and returns on 3rd September, right? The accepted accession of The Boris is July 23rd. That's two to four working days.

    Boris doesn't need to prorogue Parliament. Just string them along for a couple of working days; job done. Or am I missing something really obvious?

    Most legislatures have a procedure for recalling themselves from recess in an emergency?
    Commons could legislate for a shorter GE campaign than five weeks. Relatively recent thing.
    That would need Opposition support and Lords approval. Difficult to see that being rushed through.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406

    Will Northern Labour MPs break their own Whip and push a Boris deal over the line?

    They might if it becomes clear Boris will stand aside in their seats to let Farage have a clear run if we need an early GE.

    Is this the way out of the mess?

    No - only if they wish to lose their seats at the next election - even in those areas Labour's vote has a lot of remain votes which they can't afford to lose.

    That's why Labour can't go full on remain their best option is a second referendum
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    'Vote Tory, get Corbyn': Nigel Farage demands the Tories STAND ASIDE and give the Brexit Party a free run in Labour seats as he unveils more than ONE HUNDRED candidates to stand in a general election

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7197957/Brexit-Party-unveils-ONE-candidates-stand-general-election.html

    'Vote Brexit, get Tory' likely to be the Labour response there.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    £79 million staked so far on the England v India match.

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/cricket/market/1.159360293
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679
    The Brexit Party tweet like Russian trolls unfamiliar with the nuance of the English language.

    It is halve you halfwits.

    https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1145352111372283906
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605

    Will Northern Labour MPs break their own Whip and push a Boris deal over the line?

    They might if it becomes clear Boris will stand aside in their seats to let Farage have a clear run if we need an early GE.

    Is this the way out of the mess?

    No.

    Unlikely that Johnson will step aside for Farage so Farage will split the Brexit vote making it easier for Northern Labour MPs.

    Even if Johnson did step aside for Farage, many non ideological Tories wouldn't vote for Farage and the anti Farage voters would vote tactically to keep him out.

    I don't think any Labour MPs would break the Labour whip on a VONC on this basis. They'd be thrown out of the party if they did.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    edited June 2019

    'Vote Tory, get Corbyn': Nigel Farage demands the Tories STAND ASIDE and give the Brexit Party a free run in Labour seats as he unveils more than ONE HUNDRED candidates to stand in a general election

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7197957/Brexit-Party-unveils-ONE-candidates-stand-general-election.html

    lol - I don't know why the DM are giving Farage the publicity as a mainstream party is not going to stand aside for a start-up media reliant entity. The Brexit supporting media own this Brexit mess and all the related problems that will be derived from it....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    The Brexit Party tweet like Russian trolls unfamiliar with the nuance of the English language.

    It is halve you halfwits.

    https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1145352111372283906

    Maybe the 'half' word is correct and what is missing is the rest of the sentence: 'to be spent on a new wall"?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    I don't think I can beat that. It's too stiff a challenge.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    eek said:

    Will Northern Labour MPs break their own Whip and push a Boris deal over the line?

    They might if it becomes clear Boris will stand aside in their seats to let Farage have a clear run if we need an early GE.

    Is this the way out of the mess?

    No - only if they wish to lose their seats at the next election - even in those areas Labour's vote has a lot of remain votes which they can't afford to lose.

    That's why Labour can't go full on remain their best option is a second referendum
    But these MPs don't see it that way:

    https://twitter.com/ProfTimBale/status/1142752376195076098
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    The Brexit Party tweet like Russian trolls unfamiliar with the nuance of the English language.

    It is halve you halfwits.

    https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1145352111372283906

    Steady on Mr Eagles. I don't think we want to halve anyone - even halfwits.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    The Brexit Party tweet like Russian trolls unfamiliar with the nuance of the English language.

    It is halve you halfwits.

    https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1145352111372283906

    Maybe the 'half' word is correct and what is missing is the rest of the sentence: 'to be spent on a new wall"?
    More likely to be spent on Nigel Farage's air conditioned Mercedes.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    The Brexit Party tweet like Russian trolls unfamiliar with the nuance of the English language.

    It is halve you halfwits.

    https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1145352111372283906

    Maybe the 'half' word is correct and what is missing is the rest of the sentence: 'to be spent on a new wall"?
    No, the EU are gonna pay for the wall
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    For me it hinges on the principle of consent for NI.

    It is difficult to argue against allowing the NI a referendum on whether to have a backstop or a hard border.

    The DUP might try, but I doubt it would win them many friends in the region, which might give them pause for reflection.

    Force the extremists to face the consequences of their intransigence.

    If we have a hard border with the consent of the people of NI, then that's their choice. If they chose to maintain the current fudged situation then that's their choice as well

    +1
    +1 on condition that the people of NI can change the situation unilaterally in the future.

    Given they will in the backstop be following laws they have no say in they must have a unilateral right to exit that or there is no ongoing principle of consent.
    I think it will be one way: they start in the backstop but can leave at anytime following a referendum.

    (I would also suggest that we have the backstop for GB as well, but that we can leave unilaterally). It's quite a good segue to an FTA.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900


    No, the EU are gonna pay for the wall

    Don't give them ideas. They'll be suggesting mining the Channel next.
  • StreeterStreeter Posts: 684

    The Brexit Party tweet like Russian trolls unfamiliar with the nuance of the English language.

    It is halve you halfwits.

    https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1145352111372283906

    Maybe the 'half' word is correct and what is missing is the rest of the sentence: 'to be spent on a new wall"?
    No, the EU are gonna pay for the wall
    Walls don’t float.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Streeter said:

    The Brexit Party tweet like Russian trolls unfamiliar with the nuance of the English language.

    It is halve you halfwits.

    https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1145352111372283906

    Maybe the 'half' word is correct and what is missing is the rest of the sentence: 'to be spent on a new wall"?
    No, the EU are gonna pay for the wall
    Walls don’t float.
    They don’t have to on the border between the UK and Ireland.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    If we'd simply followed the Morris Dancer Manifesto and conquered continental Europe there wouldn't be any problem.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    If we'd simply followed the Morris Dancer Manifesto and conquered continental Europe there wouldn't be any problem.

    Maybe we should suggest the EU cedes itself to the UK? I wouldn’t necessarily bank on it but it’s worth a shot.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    F1: for anyone betting (unlikely as it is) on the stewards' decision, be aware that there's apparently a fake document floating about the internet (#35, but the document number should be fortysomething).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Rabble rousing.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884

    The Brexit Party tweet like Russian trolls unfamiliar with the nuance of the English language.

    It is halve you halfwits.

    https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1145352111372283906

    They were just seeing if you were awake, TSE :)
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,261

    The Brexit Party tweet like Russian trolls unfamiliar with the nuance of the English language.

    It is halve you halfwits.

    https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1145352111372283906

    It's

    The Brexit Party tweet like Russian trolls unfamiliar with the nuance of the English language.

    It is halve you halfwits.

    https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1145352111372283906

    It's also "tweets".
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. Seal, it's a more credible policy than Boris Johnson's.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679

    The Brexit Party tweet like Russian trolls unfamiliar with the nuance of the English language.

    It is halve you halfwits.

    https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1145352111372283906

    It's

    The Brexit Party tweet like Russian trolls unfamiliar with the nuance of the English language.

    It is halve you halfwits.

    https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1145352111372283906

    It's also "tweets".
    Nah.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    If we have a general election I predict the Brexit Party will win zero seats.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited June 2019

    eek said:

    Will Northern Labour MPs break their own Whip and push a Boris deal over the line?

    They might if it becomes clear Boris will stand aside in their seats to let Farage have a clear run if we need an early GE.

    Is this the way out of the mess?

    No - only if they wish to lose their seats at the next election - even in those areas Labour's vote has a lot of remain votes which they can't afford to lose.

    That's why Labour can't go full on remain their best option is a second referendum
    But these MPs don't see it that way:

    https://twitter.com/ProfTimBale/status/1142752376195076098
    Not many of them see it that way. Fewer than might say they see it that way, since their actions don't indicate they see it that way. Flint, wrong or not, clearly does believe it at least and she acts accordingly.

    The Brexit Party tweet like Russian trolls unfamiliar with the nuance of the English language.

    It is halve you halfwits.

    https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1145352111372283906

    I am astonished that their policy is not to eliminate the entire foreign aid budget.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited June 2019

    IanB2 said:

    A poll for HY:

    ”In total 93% of constituencies have seen a move to Remain with just 7% in the opposite direction, the analysis shows.”

    https://t.co/rHZ4wmPRXz

    Seems to be an England and Wales only survey?
    There are other countries in the UK? (might say a Tory thesedays).
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    kle4 said:

    eek said:

    Will Northern Labour MPs break their own Whip and push a Boris deal over the line?

    They might if it becomes clear Boris will stand aside in their seats to let Farage have a clear run if we need an early GE.

    Is this the way out of the mess?

    No - only if they wish to lose their seats at the next election - even in those areas Labour's vote has a lot of remain votes which they can't afford to lose.

    That's why Labour can't go full on remain their best option is a second referendum
    But these MPs don't see it that way:

    https://twitter.com/ProfTimBale/status/1142752376195076098
    Not many of them see it that way. Fewer than might say they see it that way, since their actions don't indicate they see it that way. Flint, wrong or not, clearly does believe it at least and she acts accordingly.

    The Brexit Party tweet like Russian trolls unfamiliar with the nuance of the English language.

    It is halve you halfwits.

    https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1145352111372283906

    I am astonished that their policy is not to eliminate the entire foreign aid budget.
    Doesn’t half of it end up back with British conpanies and the MoD anyway?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    kle4 said:

    eek said:

    Will Northern Labour MPs break their own Whip and push a Boris deal over the line?

    They might if it becomes clear Boris will stand aside in their seats to let Farage have a clear run if we need an early GE.

    Is this the way out of the mess?

    No - only if they wish to lose their seats at the next election - even in those areas Labour's vote has a lot of remain votes which they can't afford to lose.

    That's why Labour can't go full on remain their best option is a second referendum
    But these MPs don't see it that way:

    https://twitter.com/ProfTimBale/status/1142752376195076098
    Not many of them see it that way. Fewer than might say they see it that way, since their actions don't indicate they see it that way. Flint, wrong or not, clearly does believe it at least and she acts accordingly.

    The Brexit Party tweet like Russian trolls unfamiliar with the nuance of the English language.

    It is halve you halfwits.

    https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1145352111372283906

    I am astonished that their policy is not to eliminate the entire foreign aid budget.
    I suppose that excludes the £8.5 billion annual net to Europe :)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    Only 5 Indian wickets left!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    eek said:

    Will Northern Labour MPs break their own Whip and push a Boris deal over the line?

    They might if it becomes clear Boris will stand aside in their seats to let Farage have a clear run if we need an early GE.

    Is this the way out of the mess?

    No - only if they wish to lose their seats at the next election - even in those areas Labour's vote has a lot of remain votes which they can't afford to lose.

    That's why Labour can't go full on remain their best option is a second referendum
    But these MPs don't see it that way:

    https://twitter.com/ProfTimBale/status/1142752376195076098
    Not many of them see it that way. Fewer than might say they see it that way, since their actions don't indicate they see it that way. Flint, wrong or not, clearly does believe it at least and she acts accordingly.

    The Brexit Party tweet like Russian trolls unfamiliar with the nuance of the English language.

    It is halve you halfwits.

    https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1145352111372283906

    I am astonished that their policy is not to eliminate the entire foreign aid budget.
    Doesn’t half of it end up back with British conpanies and the MoD anyway?
    I confess I do not know, but it is still a more nuanced position than the others in their list.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    kle4 said:

    I am astonished that their policy is not to eliminate the entire foreign aid budget.

    The remaining half will be sent to Belize via a trusted intermediary...
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,900
    Afternoon all :)

    I imagine the Conservatives will only be too happy to give TBP a run at East Ham where Stephen Timms clings on by his fingertips (or just under 40,000 if you prefer). Will Farage want to contest every seat - I can't see him putting up a candidate against the ERG members for example - or is he serious about some form of pact with the Conservatives?


    As far as a VoNC is concerned, I think this is being overstated. Boris Johnson (assuming it is he) knows the only way to move things forward (and I note the growing concensus on here we cannot go on as we are. Whether we leave on 31/10 or not, what we cannot have is another 12-18 months of inertia) that he can sell to his side is a GE on a commitment to leave on 31/10 either with a WA or not.

    That of course leaves him open to attack from Farage on one flank who will argue the WA is a mistake along with the £39 billion and we should just walk out the door but that's something Boris is going to have to prepare for while he holds his own party together with a commitment to leave with the WA if it can be voted through with a new Conservative majority.

    On the assumption Corbyn's Labour wants a GE (and that might cause a split in itself within Labour) it will happen - my guess the vote in early September leads to a GE on October 10th or 17th.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited June 2019

    Partly prompted by @Pulpstar I have today backed Joe Biden at 7.2 and Bernie Sanders at 12.5 for the Democrat nomination. Sure, they underperformed in the debate but they still seem to be the two front runners in the polls and they both seem to have been oversold.

    Is this another market I'm going to have to reverse ferret in?
    Harris has had a good few days, but I still think Dems will end up going safety first with Biden.

    But he needs to shake himself up a bit. He lacked energy in that debate. Age will become an issue if there is not more spark. The line “My time is up. I’m sorry” was an obvious gaffe.
    Gaffe-prone Jo is the risky option. He too effing old and it shows
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited June 2019
    Indian bookmarkers been on the phone? Indians play seems like it. Loads of money on the over / under 300 line?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    India really hate Pakistan by the looks of it!!
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    We would actually like India to take some positives here and beat Pakistan and Bangladesh
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052

    India really hate Pakistan by the looks of it!!

    Ha that's just what I was thinking.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627

    Indian bookmarkers been on the phone? Indians play seems like it. Loads of money on the over / under 300 line?

    A couple more wides might really screw that strategy!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited June 2019
    Sandpit said:

    Indian bookmarkers been on the phone? Indians play seems like it. Loads of money on the over / under 300 line?

    A couple more wides might really screw that strategy!
    I am sure dhoni can manage to miss a couple if required.

    This game screams bent. The ridiculous slow start and end.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    Sandpit said:

    Indian bookmarkers been on the phone? Indians play seems like it. Loads of money on the over / under 300 line?

    A couple more wides might really screw that strategy!
    I am sure dhoni can manage to miss a couple if required.

    This game screams bent. The ridiculous slow start and end.
    Nothing wrong with India until the RRR hit 15, Pandya was out and thhey basically gave up


    hardly requires a steward's inquiry
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited June 2019

    Sandpit said:

    Indian bookmarkers been on the phone? Indians play seems like it. Loads of money on the over / under 300 line?

    A couple more wides might really screw that strategy!
    I am sure dhoni can manage to miss a couple if required.

    This game screams bent. The ridiculous slow start and end.
    Nothing wrong with India until the RRR hit 15, Pandya was out and thhey basically gave up


    hardly requires a steward's inquiry
    Remember these days they dont look to fix a result, they fix periods of play and they alter plans during games.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    edited June 2019
    Now at last I feel confident.

    (Cue ten wides and six boundaries...)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679
    Nigelb said:

    Now at last I feel confident.

    (Cue ten wides and six boundaries...)

    Depends if Stokes bowls the final over.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Nigelb said:

    Now at last I feel confident.

    (Cue ten wides and six boundaries...)

    Depends if Stokes bowls the final over.
    Fingers crossed....

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    44 runs from the last over required :lol:
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    kle4 said:

    eek said:

    Will Northern Labour MPs break their own Whip and push a Boris deal over the line?

    They might if it becomes clear Boris will stand aside in their seats to let Farage have a clear run if we need an early GE.

    Is this the way out of the mess?

    No - only if they wish to lose their seats at the next election - even in those areas Labour's vote has a lot of remain votes which they can't afford to lose.

    That's why Labour can't go full on remain their best option is a second referendum
    But these MPs don't see it that way:

    https://twitter.com/ProfTimBale/status/1142752376195076098
    Not many of them see it that way. Fewer than might say they see it that way, since their actions don't indicate they see it that way. Flint, wrong or not, clearly does believe it at least and she acts accordingly.

    The Brexit Party tweet like Russian trolls unfamiliar with the nuance of the English language.

    It is halve you halfwits.

    https://twitter.com/brexitparty_uk/status/1145352111372283906

    I am astonished that their policy is not to eliminate the entire foreign aid budget.
    Aren't the overseas territories subsidized through the overseas aid budget?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Sandpit said:

    Indian bookmarkers been on the phone? Indians play seems like it. Loads of money on the over / under 300 line?

    A couple more wides might really screw that strategy!
    I am sure dhoni can manage to miss a couple if required.

    This game screams bent. The ridiculous slow start and end.
    Nothing wrong with India until the RRR hit 15, Pandya was out and thhey basically gave up


    hardly requires a steward's inquiry
    Quite. It is utterly of a pattern with India’s batting; nothing suspicious.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627

    Sandpit said:

    Indian bookmarkers been on the phone? Indians play seems like it. Loads of money on the over / under 300 line?

    A couple more wides might really screw that strategy!
    I am sure dhoni can manage to miss a couple if required.

    This game screams bent. The ridiculous slow start and end.
    Thankfully I piled on England to win this one, and tend to stay well away from the more esoteric markets around cricket matches as they’ve been proved to be susceptible to people seeking to influence the match. Oh, and won’t bet on any match involving Pakistan.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    edited June 2019

    Sandpit said:

    Indian bookmarkers been on the phone? Indians play seems like it. Loads of money on the over / under 300 line?

    A couple more wides might really screw that strategy!
    I am sure dhoni can manage to miss a couple if required.

    This game screams bent. The ridiculous slow start and end.
    Nothing wrong with India until the RRR hit 15, Pandya was out and thhey basically gave up


    hardly requires a steward's inquiry
    Remember these days they dont look to fix a result, they fix periods of play and they alter plans during games.
    Yep, as if someone’s selling runs in the last 5 or 10 overs on the spreads.

    Edit: but then they go and get a dozen from the last over, for 306. Double bluff?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    England win by 31 runs!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    edited June 2019
    justin124 said:

    'Vote Tory, get Corbyn': Nigel Farage demands the Tories STAND ASIDE and give the Brexit Party a free run in Labour seats as he unveils more than ONE HUNDRED candidates to stand in a general election

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7197957/Brexit-Party-unveils-ONE-candidates-stand-general-election.html

    'Vote Brexit, get Tory' likely to be the Labour response there.
    For £100 (non refundable), you can apply to be a BXP candidate. Paging @HYUFD

    https://thebrexitparty.org/invitation-to-apply-to-be-a-candidate-for-parliament​/

    Once these people have paid up and beenselected, they aren’t going away in a hurry.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    edited June 2019
    F1: stewards still thinking.

    I suspect the conversation is something like this:
    "To be consistent we have to give a penalty."
    "Everyone will hate that decision."
    "Yes."
    "...."

    Edited extra bit: I know some do think it's a penalty, but the weight of opinion appears to be in Verstappen's favour.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    I imagine the Conservatives will only be too happy to give TBP a run at East Ham where Stephen Timms clings on by his fingertips (or just under 40,000 if you prefer). Will Farage want to contest every seat - I can't see him putting up a candidate against the ERG members for example - or is he serious about some form of pact with the Conservatives?


    As far as a VoNC is concerned, I think this is being overstated. Boris Johnson (assuming it is he) knows the only way to move things forward (and I note the growing concensus on here we cannot go on as we are. Whether we leave on 31/10 or not, what we cannot have is another 12-18 months of inertia) that he can sell to his side is a GE on a commitment to leave on 31/10 either with a WA or not.

    That of course leaves him open to attack from Farage on one flank who will argue the WA is a mistake along with the £39 billion and we should just walk out the door but that's something Boris is going to have to prepare for while he holds his own party together with a commitment to leave with the WA if it can be voted through with a new Conservative majority.

    On the assumption Corbyn's Labour wants a GE (and that might cause a split in itself within Labour) it will happen - my guess the vote in early September leads to a GE on October 10th or 17th.

    That doesn’t give time for Parliament to reopen before the 31/10 - which means we would need an extension and that provides Farage with all the ammo he needs to attack Boris.

    The one thing this leadership campaign has done is create statements which make both candidates hostage of fortune..
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    edited June 2019
    F1 stewards really are waiting for the Dutch fans to go home. The race finished three hours ago, they spoke to the drivers and teams nearly two hours ago, yet they still haven’t made their decision.

    IMO it’s a slam dunk penalty, but everyone’s aware of the PR nightmare of actually making the decision.

    Edit: Great minds, Mr Dancer...
This discussion has been closed.