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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    HYUFD said:

    nico67 said:

    Brilliant speech by Rory Stewart .

    Yes, Rory is by far the best LD leadership candidate to succeed Vince Cable...
    Very good, but he’s going to be killed by going too far. He’s effectively created a meme where he’s running for himself and against his own party.

    He hasn’t done anything like enough to defend Conservatism and draw Remainers and other floating voters to his banner and vision.

    Had he squared that he’d have a strong chance of making the final two.
    Yes but by doing that he would lose the liberal luvvies, he at least has a good media career ahead of him
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    kle4 said:

    It should mean that. Although given they are essentially between leaders and thus, in the unlikely event he wins the contest, his policy approach would be seen as correct, perhaps they will try to justify not doing so as an exceptional circumstance.
    Maybe it forces May to accept the Opposition motion rather than oppose it.
    Yeah right, when every other leadership candidate will be happily against it?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    MikeL said:

    Was Rory's launch a bit reminiscent of Cameron's 2005 Conference speech?

    Starting to feel as if he could come from nowhere to win it.

    EDIT: Hadn't read last few posts when I posted!

    Cameron ran as a Conservative.

    That’s the difference.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,490
    Rory Stewart strikes me as someone who wants to reach out to people across the divide so that they can compromise with him. I see very little compromise on his side. I didn't like his comments that he was the only one who could beat Boris, it all seems rather to have gone to his head.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    MikeL said:

    Was Rory's launch a bit reminiscent of Cameron's 2005 Conference speech?

    Starting to feel as if he could come from nowhere to win it.

    EDIT: Hadn't read last few posts when I posted!

    Cameron ran as a Conservative.

    That’s the difference.
    Give over. Rory is very much a Conservative. How can you suggest otherwise?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Steve Bray asks about revoking Article 50.

    His very presence in the audience is toxic for Rory.
    Rory does not back revoking, and said so - of all the reasons his campaign is toxic for his chances, why would telling that man that be toxic?
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    Rory might indeed be playing for the next contest, which in normal times would be years away.

    This time it might be months away.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    Barnesian said:

    Rory reminds me of Eddie Redmayne

    Yes I get some of that from him too. Bit of Mick Jagger in there also. Most definitely some Bobby Kennedy. And just a hint of Trigger from Only Fools And Horses.

    All good.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,807
    For what it's worth, if I had a vote then Rory would be on the Maybe list, along with Hunt and Gove. Not heard what Harper had to say (though it was praised here).

    Boris is on the Hahahaha - No list.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491

    kle4 said:

    The shocking thing is that Rory is just making obvious, mainstream, Conservative points, clearly and without equivocation. That is shocking because we have become so inured to fudge, fantasy and extremism that the moderate, sensible voices have been cowed into silence, as indeed they have in Labour.

    Conservatism is Brexit, nothing more, nothing less. That is what the massive surge to BXP has taught us.
    In that case we need a new party to take over the great Conservative traditions of pragmatism, sound finances, opportunity, and respect for ourselves, for others and for our history. The Big Tent Party, anyone?
    Rory could have made that pitch for the Conservatives, with a moderate Brexit.

    He didn’t, so he’ll lose.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    rcs1000 said:

    If Rory Stewart become leader of the Conservative Party, then I think William Of Orange / archer101au would literally explode.

    Good
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217

    kle4 said:

    The shocking thing is that Rory is just making obvious, mainstream, Conservative points, clearly and without equivocation. That is shocking because we have become so inured to fudge, fantasy and extremism that the moderate, sensible voices have been cowed into silence, as indeed they have in Labour.

    Conservatism is Brexit, nothing more, nothing less. That is what the massive surge to BXP has taught us.
    In that case we need a new party to take over the great Conservative traditions of pragmatism, sound finances, opportunity, and respect for ourselves, for others and for our history. The Big Tent Party, anyone?
    Rory could have made that pitch for the Conservatives, with a moderate Brexit.

    He didn’t, so he’ll lose.
    He is pitching a moderate Brexit though !
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    eek said:

    I have no doubt that Rory is the single most impressive politician in British politics right now by a country mile. And yet. If he can't win over his fellow MPs, and then his Party members, within mere days, he will end up a big failure.

    I don't buy this nonsense of running this time to prepare for the next contest. The time when he can make a difference is now. The country needs him to win.

    Nope - this mess can't be solved. Rory is better off picking up the pieces after Boris has really screwed things up...

    Equally I wouldn't be surprised if Rory was leader of the Tories by this time next year...
    The trouble with that is, if Johnson really screws things up, the leader of the Tories won't be in a position of power for a very, very long time.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico67 said:

    Brilliant speech by Rory Stewart .

    Yes, Rory is by far the best LD leadership candidate to succeed Vince Cable...
    Very good, but he’s going to be killed by going too far. He’s effectively created a meme where he’s running for himself and against his own party.

    He hasn’t done anything like enough to defend Conservatism and draw Remainers and other floating voters to his banner and vision.

    Had he squared that he’d have a strong chance of making the final two.
    Yes but by doing that he would lose the liberal luvvies, he at least has a good media career ahead of him
    He keeps on going on about “love” - which sounds dangerously like love is all you need - and makes himself sound both like John Lennon, and a proper (and literal) luvvie.

    He’d have been far better advised to use the word compassion.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    kle4 said:

    The shocking thing is that Rory is just making obvious, mainstream, Conservative points, clearly and without equivocation. That is shocking because we have become so inured to fudge, fantasy and extremism that the moderate, sensible voices have been cowed into silence, as indeed they have in Labour.

    Conservatism is Brexit, nothing more, nothing less. That is what the massive surge to BXP has taught us.
    In that case we need a new party to take over the great Conservative traditions of pragmatism, sound finances, opportunity, and respect for ourselves, for others and for our history. The Big Tent Party, anyone?
    Rory could have made that pitch for the Conservatives, with a moderate Brexit.

    He didn’t, so he’ll lose.
    Rory does support a moderate Brexit. That you don't recognize it as such only goes to show how difficult his job is.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    I didn't like his comments that he was the only one who could beat Boris, it all seems rather to have gone to his head.

    What is supposed to say? That anyone could be Boris?

    I don't think Rory has much of a plan despite his talk of compromise, and he has no chance with the members given some of his positions, but it 'going to his head' seems a curious charge to lay at his door. Sure, he is showing perhaps an unusual level of self confidence, arrogance one might even say, to enter a contest he has no chance of winning, but that's a small issue. Some of Boris's supporters went around complaining about the rules of the contest and acting outraged that he might not get through to the final two as a result, showing entitlement to a massive degree.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited June 2019
    In the same way Marianne is the symbol of France represented by Catherine Deneuve in the 80s. I see Brexit symbolised by the ruddy faced chubby figure of Mark Francoise.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491

    Last thing on the Rory Stewart launch stream was a "Stop Brexit" shout. :D

    I bet that was Steve Bray.

    He really is a stratospheric penis.

    If I were Rory I wouldn’t have let him in.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    It should mean that. Although given they are essentially between leaders and thus, in the unlikely event he wins the contest, his policy approach would be seen as correct, perhaps they will try to justify not doing so as an exceptional circumstance.
    Maybe it forces May to accept the Opposition motion rather than oppose it.
    Yeah right, when every other leadership candidate will be happily against it?
    I may be a bit overexcited by a politician talking to me as though they think I'm a grown up.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    MikeL said:

    Was Rory's launch a bit reminiscent of Cameron's 2005 Conference speech?

    Starting to feel as if he could come from nowhere to win it.

    EDIT: Hadn't read last few posts when I posted!

    Cameron ran as a Conservative.

    That’s the difference.
    Rory is very sure he is a Conservative. What about that do you dispute? Bearing in mind Brexit position is not the sole arbiter of conservatism.

    As for the point about pitching for a moderate Brexit, plenty of pointed out he is pitching for that (unreaslitically at this time is my view), and more to the point he is pitching a Brexit which had the backing of virtually all of the parliamentary party at one time or another, including Boris Johnson. Not happily, nor would be likely back it again, but he backed it.

    How can it not be a moderate Brexit when the vast majority of Tory MPs backed it?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    This new series of The Grand Tour is going down really well. The Tory third reboot of Top Gear with Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and Chris Harris is shit, tho.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Last thing on the Rory Stewart launch stream was a "Stop Brexit" shout. :D

    I bet that was Steve Bray.

    He really is a stratospheric penis.

    If I were Rory I wouldn’t have let him in.
    I imagine he did so he could show that he was against the man.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,355
    Byronic said:

    Rory is good, but he still isn't telling us How Brexit. Unless I missed it.

    Nobody is telling us. It is a riddle without a solution.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    Barnesian said:

    His theme of the balance between cowardice and foolhardiness etc is straight out of Aristotle's Ethics. The golden mean. The balance in the centre.

    It also mirrors Buddha's Middle Way. Some hold that Buddhist teachings may well have reached and influenced Greece at the time, as it was the brand new philosophy sweeping India.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    kle4 said:

    MikeL said:

    Was Rory's launch a bit reminiscent of Cameron's 2005 Conference speech?

    Starting to feel as if he could come from nowhere to win it.

    EDIT: Hadn't read last few posts when I posted!

    Cameron ran as a Conservative.

    That’s the difference.
    Rory is very sure he is a Conservative. What about that do you dispute? Bearing in mind Brexit position is not the sole arbiter of conservatism.

    As for the point about pitching for a moderate Brexit, plenty of pointed out he is pitching for that (unreaslitically at this time is my view), and more to the point he is pitching a Brexit which had the backing of virtually all of the parliamentary party at one time or another, including Boris Johnson. Not happily, nor would be likely back it again, but he backed it.

    How can it not be a moderate Brexit when the vast majority of Tory MPs backed it?
    I don’t dispute he is (and have indeed defended him accordingly on previous threads) but he’s not getting the tone of his pitch right, and has taken it too far.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    O/T

    A lot of public wi-fi systems block PB because they think it's mainly to do with betting rather than political discussion, but you can usually get round it by using the Vanilla Forums site, which is what I'm doing atm.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491

    kle4 said:

    The shocking thing is that Rory is just making obvious, mainstream, Conservative points, clearly and without equivocation. That is shocking because we have become so inured to fudge, fantasy and extremism that the moderate, sensible voices have been cowed into silence, as indeed they have in Labour.

    Conservatism is Brexit, nothing more, nothing less. That is what the massive surge to BXP has taught us.
    In that case we need a new party to take over the great Conservative traditions of pragmatism, sound finances, opportunity, and respect for ourselves, for others and for our history. The Big Tent Party, anyone?
    Rory could have made that pitch for the Conservatives, with a moderate Brexit.

    He didn’t, so he’ll lose.
    Rory does support a moderate Brexit. That you don't recognize it as such only goes to show how difficult his job is.
    Bullocks. I’ve written over this thread and previous that I do think he’s a Conservative and I support both his Brexit vision and Theresa May’s Deal.

    But, I understand my party and he’s getting his tone and pitch wrong.

    Try again. And think next time before you default to shooting the messenger.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,710

    Rory Stewart strikes me as someone who wants to reach out to people across the divide so that they can compromise with him. I see very little compromise on his side. I didn't like his comments that he was the only one who could beat Boris, it all seems rather to have gone to his head.

    I'm unsure how you can make a pitch for this position like this and do anything different to that.
  • StreeterStreeter Posts: 684
    Barnesian said:

    Rory reminds me of Eddie Redmayne

    I doubt he would look as good in a dress.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited June 2019

    kle4 said:

    The shocking thing is that Rory is just making obvious, mainstream, Conservative points, clearly and without equivocation. That is shocking because we have become so inured to fudge, fantasy and extremism that the moderate, sensible voices have been cowed into silence, as indeed they have in Labour.

    Conservatism is Brexit, nothing more, nothing less. That is what the massive surge to BXP has taught us.
    In that case we need a new party to take over the great Conservative traditions of pragmatism, sound finances, opportunity, and respect for ourselves, for others and for our history. The Big Tent Party, anyone?
    Rory could have made that pitch for the Conservatives, with a moderate Brexit.

    He didn’t, so he’ll lose.
    Rory does support a moderate Brexit. That you don't recognize it as such only goes to show how difficult his job is.
    Bullocks. I’ve written over this thread and previous that I do think he’s a Conservative
    Then why say he 'could have made that pitch for the Conservatives' and that he didn't? Seems a lot like saying he is not making a Conservative pitch.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    Barnesian said:

    Rory reminds me of Eddie Redmayne

    Ben Whishaw on a diet. Worked for Christian Bale.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    Chris said:

    eek said:

    I have no doubt that Rory is the single most impressive politician in British politics right now by a country mile. And yet. If he can't win over his fellow MPs, and then his Party members, within mere days, he will end up a big failure.

    I don't buy this nonsense of running this time to prepare for the next contest. The time when he can make a difference is now. The country needs him to win.

    Nope - this mess can't be solved. Rory is better off picking up the pieces after Boris has really screwed things up...

    Equally I wouldn't be surprised if Rory was leader of the Tories by this time next year...
    The trouble with that is, if Johnson really screws things up, the leader of the Tories won't be in a position of power for a very, very long time.
    I don't expect the Tories to be in power if Boris wins - Boris will be VoNCed before he begins or destroyed by Brexit in the way everyone will be until it's put to bed
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,490

    Byronic said:

    Rory is good, but he still isn't telling us How Brexit. Unless I missed it.

    Nobody is telling us. It is a riddle without a solution.
    How a country stops being part of a set of treaty arrangements having to replace literally zero functions of the state, yes, truly a mystery worthy of Sherlock.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    edited June 2019
    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:
    Of course he's refusing to talk about it, that's the whole point of an NDA. The judge's summing up on his court action against Associated Newspapers made the point that party [E] wished the matter to remain private also.
    Why is Buzzfeed trying to drag [E] to a place she does not want to go ?????
    Perhaps because she was publicly accused of being a vexatious litigant this morning by one of Raab’s leading backers ?

    Which is rather not the point of an NDA.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Andrew said:

    Rory might indeed be playing for the next contest, which in normal times would be years away.

    This time it might be months away.

    On the other hand Boris could be in number 10 for the next 15 years. That's a thought.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    kle4 said:

    The shocking thing is that Rory is just making obvious, mainstream, Conservative points, clearly and without equivocation. That is shocking because we have become so inured to fudge, fantasy and extremism that the moderate, sensible voices have been cowed into silence, as indeed they have in Labour.

    Conservatism is Brexit, nothing more, nothing less. That is what the massive surge to BXP has taught us.
    In that case we need a new party to take over the great Conservative traditions of pragmatism, sound finances, opportunity, and respect for ourselves, for others and for our history. The Big Tent Party, anyone?
    Rory could have made that pitch for the Conservatives, with a moderate Brexit.

    He didn’t, so he’ll lose.
    Rory does support a moderate Brexit. That you don't recognize it as such only goes to show how difficult his job is.
    Bullocks. I’ve written over this thread and previous that I do think he’s a Conservative and I support both his Brexit vision and Theresa May’s Deal.

    But, I understand my party and he’s getting his tone and pitch wrong.

    Try again. And think next time before you default to shooting the messenger.
    How do you talk a death cult out of their mania?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited June 2019
    eek said:

    Chris said:

    eek said:

    I have no doubt that Rory is the single most impressive politician in British politics right now by a country mile. And yet. If he can't win over his fellow MPs, and then his Party members, within mere days, he will end up a big failure.

    I don't buy this nonsense of running this time to prepare for the next contest. The time when he can make a difference is now. The country needs him to win.

    Nope - this mess can't be solved. Rory is better off picking up the pieces after Boris has really screwed things up...

    Equally I wouldn't be surprised if Rory was leader of the Tories by this time next year...
    The trouble with that is, if Johnson really screws things up, the leader of the Tories won't be in a position of power for a very, very long time.
    I don't expect the Tories to be in power if Boris wins - Boris will be VoNCed before he begins or destroyed by Brexit in the way everyone will be until it's put to bed
    If Boris is VoNCed he will win a majority at the ensuing general election on a platform to deliver Brexit
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Cyclefree said:

    Re. Brexit, he has said he'll support the cross party strategy to block No Deal (good man) and he talked at the end of the main speech about courage being not chasing the unicorns, the fantasies but facing reality.

    I'd read that to going for something close to May's-EU deal but I could be wrong.

    He's streets ahead of the other candidates and would toast Corbyn. But he won't be chosen by the lunatics who have taken over the asylum.

    Well, the event at which I was due to speak was cancelled as it turned out it was at the building on which the helicopter crash landed yesterday. What are the odds, eh!

    So have a day in NY to bum around. Have just watched Rory Stewart’s speech and his Q&A. Very impressive. The standout candidate.

    If the Tories reject him they are fools. They will, I fear. They are fools.

    But I hope Rory will hang on in there for the next time. There is something about him which has been lacking in far too many politicians and which we need in this country.
    Get Metro-North to the Botanic Garden. It’s really very good. (Brooklyn is ok but not quite as good).
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,710

    Rory Stewart:

    "He pledges to walk through every county in the country if he becomes prime minister, "listening and walking, listening and walking" to ordinary people."

    I'll go with him if he does the county tops. ;)

    Rory is the only politician I'm interested in meeting. Ever.
    The only problem with walking all the counties is that people will argue about whether it's the 'new' counties / UA's, or the old ceremonial counties. I once had one gent complaining the list on my website didn't include 'Avon'.

    Never, ever, get involved in the what-is-a-county argument ... ;)
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited June 2019
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Chris said:

    eek said:

    I have no doubt that Rory is the single most impressive politician in British politics right now by a country mile. And yet. If he can't win over his fellow MPs, and then his Party members, within mere days, he will end up a big failure.

    I don't buy this nonsense of running this time to prepare for the next contest. The time when he can make a difference is now. The country needs him to win.

    Nope - this mess can't be solved. Rory is better off picking up the pieces after Boris has really screwed things up...

    Equally I wouldn't be surprised if Rory was leader of the Tories by this time next year...
    The trouble with that is, if Johnson really screws things up, the leader of the Tories won't be in a position of power for a very, very long time.
    I don't expect the Tories to be in power if Boris wins - Boris will be VoNCed before he begins or destroyed by Brexit in the way everyone will be until it's put to bed
    If Boris is VoNCed he will win a majority at the ensuing general election on a platform to deliver Brexit

    That's by no means a given. And Boris himself might lose his seat.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491

    kle4 said:

    The shocking thing is that Rory is just making obvious, mainstream, Conservative points, clearly and without equivocation. That is shocking because we have become so inured to fudge, fantasy and extremism that the moderate, sensible voices have been cowed into silence, as indeed they have in Labour.

    Conservatism is Brexit, nothing more, nothing less. That is what the massive surge to BXP has taught us.
    In that case we need a new party to take over the great Conservative traditions of pragmatism, sound finances, opportunity, and respect for ourselves, for others and for our history. The Big Tent Party, anyone?
    Rory could have made that pitch for the Conservatives, with a moderate Brexit.

    He didn’t, so he’ll lose.
    Rory does support a moderate Brexit. That you don't recognize it as such only goes to show how difficult his job is.
    Bullocks. I’ve written over this thread and previous that I do think he’s a Conservative and I support both his Brexit vision and Theresa May’s Deal.

    But, I understand my party and he’s getting his tone and pitch wrong.

    Try again. And think next time before you default to shooting the messenger.
    How do you talk a death cult out of their mania?
    You appeal to the legacy of their party, their emotions, their pride and need for a winner, and their well rooted patriotism. A vision for the UK they love for the 21st Century.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Rory Stewart:

    "He pledges to walk through every county in the country if he becomes prime minister, "listening and walking, listening and walking" to ordinary people."

    I'll go with him if he does the county tops. ;)

    Rory is the only politician I'm interested in meeting. Ever.
    The only problem with walking all the counties is that people will argue about whether it's the 'new' counties / UA's, or the old ceremonial counties. I once had one gent complaining the list on my website didn't include 'Avon'.

    Never, ever, get involved in the what-is-a-county argument ... ;)
    Ceremonial county or nothing, no question. If it don't have a Lord Lieutenant, I don't want to know about it.
  • MrsBMrsB Posts: 574
    Who gets to the last 2 depends on whether MPs vote for what's best for the country or what's best in terms of what they can as individuals personally extract from the situation.

    Even then, surely they would not vote for McVey. Would they? Please tell me they haven't sunk that far
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,355
    kle4 said:

    I didn't like his comments that he was the only one who could beat Boris, it all seems rather to have gone to his head.

    What is supposed to say? That anyone could be Boris?

    I don't think Rory has much of a plan despite his talk of compromise, and he has no chance with the members given some of his positions, but it 'going to his head' seems a curious charge to lay at his door. Sure, he is showing perhaps an unusual level of self confidence, arrogance one might even say, to enter a contest he has no chance of winning, but that's a small issue. Some of Boris's supporters went around complaining about the rules of the contest and acting outraged that he might not get through to the final two as a result, showing entitlement to a massive degree.
    Stewart isn't the only candidate to have entered the contest with no chance of winning. He's the only one so far to have made any kind of impression though.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Chris said:

    eek said:

    I have no doubt that Rory is the single most impressive politician in British politics right now by a country mile. And yet. If he can't win over his fellow MPs, and then his Party members, within mere days, he will end up a big failure.

    I don't buy this nonsense of running this time to prepare for the next contest. The time when he can make a difference is now. The country needs him to win.

    Nope - this mess can't be solved. Rory is better off picking up the pieces after Boris has really screwed things up...

    Equally I wouldn't be surprised if Rory was leader of the Tories by this time next year...
    The trouble with that is, if Johnson really screws things up, the leader of the Tories won't be in a position of power for a very, very long time.
    I don't expect the Tories to be in power if Boris wins - Boris will be VoNCed before he begins or destroyed by Brexit in the way everyone will be until it's put to bed
    If Boris is VoNCed he will win a majority at the ensuing general election on a platform to deliver Brexit

    That's by no means a given. And Boris himself might lose his seat.
    If Boris is VoNCed there will be an election. If Nigel stands the Tory party would still be destroyed
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cyclefree said:

    Re. Brexit, he has said he'll support the cross party strategy to block No Deal (good man) and he talked at the end of the main speech about courage being not chasing the unicorns, the fantasies but facing reality.

    I'd read that to going for something close to May's-EU deal but I could be wrong.

    He's streets ahead of the other candidates and would toast Corbyn. But he won't be chosen by the lunatics who have taken over the asylum.

    Well, the event at which I was due to speak was cancelled as it turned out it was at the building on which the helicopter crash landed yesterday. What are the odds, eh!

    So have a day in NY to bum around. Have just watched Rory Stewart’s speech and his Q&A. Very impressive. The standout candidate.

    If the Tories reject him they are fools. They will, I fear. They are fools.

    But I hope Rory will hang on in there for the next time. There is something about him which has been lacking in far too many politicians and which we need in this country.
    So you turn up in NY and a helicopter just happens to crash into the building next door, and you say this is just coincidence, Cyclefree?

    I'd get a good lawyer if I were you.... ;-)
    I have the perfect alibi. I was in the air at the time - in an aeroplane over the Atlantic.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited June 2019

    kle4 said:

    The shocking thing is that Rory is just making obvious, mainstream, Conservative points, clearly and without equivocation. That is shocking because we have become so inured to fudge, fantasy and extremism that the moderate, sensible voices have been cowed into silence, as indeed they have in Labour.

    Conservatism is Brexit, nothing more, nothing less. That is what the massive surge to BXP has taught us.
    In that case we need a new party to take over the great Conservative traditions of pragmatism, sound finances, opportunity, and respect for ourselves, for others and for our history. The Big Tent Party, anyone?
    Rory could have made that pitch for the Conservatives, with a moderate Brexit.

    He didn’t, so he’ll lose.
    Rory does support a moderate Brexit. That you don't recognize it as such only goes to show how difficult his job is.
    Bullocks. I’ve written over this thread and previous that I do think he’s a Conservative and I support both his Brexit vision and Theresa May’s Deal.

    But, I understand my party and he’s getting his tone and pitch wrong.

    Try again. And think next time before you default to shooting the messenger.
    How do you talk a death cult out of their mania?
    You appeal to the legacy of their party, their emotions, their pride and need for a winner, and their well rooted patriotism. A vision for the UK they love for the 21st Century.
    That would involve trying to get them to widen their appeal (since it is trying to get them to change their minds), and therefore not being Tory enough.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    kle4 said:

    The shocking thing is that Rory is just making obvious, mainstream, Conservative points, clearly and without equivocation. That is shocking because we have become so inured to fudge, fantasy and extremism that the moderate, sensible voices have been cowed into silence, as indeed they have in Labour.

    Conservatism is Brexit, nothing more, nothing less. That is what the massive surge to BXP has taught us.
    In that case we need a new party to take over the great Conservative traditions of pragmatism, sound finances, opportunity, and respect for ourselves, for others and for our history. The Big Tent Party, anyone?
    Rory could have made that pitch for the Conservatives, with a moderate Brexit.

    He didn’t, so he’ll lose.
    Rory does support a moderate Brexit. That you don't recognize it as such only goes to show how difficult his job is.
    Bullocks. I’ve written over this thread and previous that I do think he’s a Conservative and I support both his Brexit vision and Theresa May’s Deal.

    But, I understand my party and he’s getting his tone and pitch wrong.

    Try again. And think next time before you default to shooting the messenger.
    How do you talk a death cult out of their mania?
    You appeal to the legacy of their party, their emotions, their pride and need for a winner, and their well rooted patriotism. A vision for the UK they love for the 21st Century.
    They don’t have a vision for the UK. They have a vision for provincial southern England based around introverted chauvinism. Everyone else can get stuffed.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    MrsB said:

    Who gets to the last 2 depends on whether MPs vote for what's best for the country or what's best in terms of what they can as individuals personally extract from the situation.

    Even then, surely they would not vote for McVey. Would they? Please tell me they haven't sunk that far

    They don't need to, several candidates are by default backing no deal, or even prorogation.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217
    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:
    Of course he's refusing to talk about it, that's the whole point of an NDA. The judge's summing up on his court action against Associated Newspapers made the point that party [E] wished the matter to remain private also.
    Why is Buzzfeed trying to drag [E] to a place she does not want to go ?????
    Perhaps because she was publicly accused of being a vexatious litigant this morning by one of Raab’s leading backers ?

    Which is rather not the point of an NDA.
    Miller needs to apologise for that if she already hasn't.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    The shocking thing is that Rory is just making obvious, mainstream, Conservative points, clearly and without equivocation. That is shocking because we have become so inured to fudge, fantasy and extremism that the moderate, sensible voices have been cowed into silence, as indeed they have in Labour.

    Conservatism is Brexit, nothing more, nothing less. That is what the massive surge to BXP has taught us.
    In that case we need a new party to take over the great Conservative traditions of pragmatism, sound finances, opportunity, and respect for ourselves, for others and for our history. The Big Tent Party, anyone?
    Rory could have made that pitch for the Conservatives, with a moderate Brexit.

    He didn’t, so he’ll lose.
    Rory does support a moderate Brexit. That you don't recognize it as such only goes to show how difficult his job is.
    Bullocks. I’ve written over this thread and previous that I do think he’s a Conservative
    Then why say he 'could have made that pitch for the Conservatives' and that he didn't? Seems a lot like saying he is not making a Conservative pitch.
    Read my posts again, and try and understand what I’ve said.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    kle4 said:

    MrsB said:

    Who gets to the last 2 depends on whether MPs vote for what's best for the country or what's best in terms of what they can as individuals personally extract from the situation.

    Even then, surely they would not vote for McVey. Would they? Please tell me they haven't sunk that far

    They don't need to, several candidates are by default backing no deal, or even prorogation.
    Prorogation was never a viable option and if that wasn’t already obvious Rory Stewart killed it stone dead tonight. The headbangers simply don’t have the numbers.
  • StreeterStreeter Posts: 684

    kle4 said:

    The shocking thing is that Rory is just making obvious, mainstream, Conservative points, clearly and without equivocation. That is shocking because we have become so inured to fudge, fantasy and extremism that the moderate, sensible voices have been cowed into silence, as indeed they have in Labour.

    Conservatism is Brexit, nothing more, nothing less. That is what the massive surge to BXP has taught us.
    In that case we need a new party to take over the great Conservative traditions of pragmatism, sound finances, opportunity, and respect for ourselves, for others and for our history. The Big Tent Party, anyone?
    Rory could have made that pitch for the Conservatives, with a moderate Brexit.

    He didn’t, so he’ll lose.
    Rory does support a moderate Brexit. That you don't recognize it as such only goes to show how difficult his job is.
    Bullocks. I’ve written over this thread and previous that I do think he’s a Conservative and I support both his Brexit vision and Theresa May’s Deal.

    But, I understand my party and he’s getting his tone and pitch wrong.

    Try again. And think next time before you default to shooting the messenger.
    How do you talk a death cult out of their mania?
    You appeal to the legacy of their party, their emotions, their pride and need for a winner, and their well rooted patriotism. A vision for the UK they love for the 21st Century.
    People don’t love the UK. They may love England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland or (less an less as time goes on) Britain, but the UK? Nah.

    Brexit - there’s a clue in the name.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited June 2019

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    The shocking thing is that Rory is just making obvious, mainstream, Conservative points, clearly and without equivocation. That is shocking because we have become so inured to fudge, fantasy and extremism that the moderate, sensible voices have been cowed into silence, as indeed they have in Labour.

    Conservatism is Brexit, nothing more, nothing less. That is what the massive surge to BXP has taught us.
    In that case we need a new party to take over the great Conservative traditions of pragmatism, sound finances, opportunity, and respect for ourselves, for others and for our history. The Big Tent Party, anyone?
    Rory could have made that pitch for the Conservatives, with a moderate Brexit.

    He didn’t, so he’ll lose.
    Rory does support a moderate Brexit. That you don't recognize it as such only goes to show how difficult his job is.
    Bullocks. I’ve written over this thread and previous that I do think he’s a Conservative
    Then why say he 'could have made that pitch for the Conservatives' and that he didn't? Seems a lot like saying he is not making a Conservative pitch.
    Read my posts again, and try and understand what I’ve said.
    Perhaps instead of condescending that I did not comprehend your point, you might consider that your point was not in any way well made and was not as self evident as you thought it was, given multiple people have taken away from it what you claim was not there. It happens, believe me I know.

    Whatever your claimed intent, you said he did not make a pitch for the Conservatives, and are now whining that people read into that that you do not think he made a Conservative pitch.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited June 2019
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Chris said:

    eek said:

    I have no doubt that Rory is the single most impressive politician in British politics right now by a country mile. And yet. If he can't win over his fellow MPs, and then his Party members, within mere days, he will end up a big failure.

    I don't buy this nonsense of running this time to prepare for the next contest. The time when he can make a difference is now. The country needs him to win.

    Nope - this mess can't be solved. Rory is better off picking up the pieces after Boris has really screwed things up...

    Equally I wouldn't be surprised if Rory was leader of the Tories by this time next year...
    The trouble with that is, if Johnson really screws things up, the leader of the Tories won't be in a position of power for a very, very long time.
    I don't expect the Tories to be in power if Boris wins - Boris will be VoNCed before he begins or destroyed by Brexit in the way everyone will be until it's put to bed
    If Boris is VoNCed he will win a majority at the ensuing general election on a platform to deliver Brexit

    That's by no means a given. And Boris himself might lose his seat.
    If Boris is VoNCed there will be an election. If Nigel stands the Tory party would still be destroyed
    Nope, Boris slashes the Brexit Party to 13% with Yougov, leads Labour and the LDs by 7% and gets an overall Tory majority of 16


    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1136006739864825858?s=20
  • Viceroy_of_OrangeViceroy_of_Orange Posts: 172
    edited June 2019
    rcs1000 said:

    If Rory Stewart become leader of the Conservative Party, then I think William Of Orange / archer101au would literally explode.

    Would only seal their fate. Of all the Tories I know, not one of them would vote for a Tory Party led by Rory Stewart. I'd sooner vote Corbyn. Rory could be our Kim Campbell.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,355
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Re. Brexit, he has said he'll support the cross party strategy to block No Deal (good man) and he talked at the end of the main speech about courage being not chasing the unicorns, the fantasies but facing reality.

    I'd read that to going for something close to May's-EU deal but I could be wrong.

    He's streets ahead of the other candidates and would toast Corbyn. But he won't be chosen by the lunatics who have taken over the asylum.

    Well, the event at which I was due to speak was cancelled as it turned out it was at the building on which the helicopter crash landed yesterday. What are the odds, eh!

    So have a day in NY to bum around. Have just watched Rory Stewart’s speech and his Q&A. Very impressive. The standout candidate.

    If the Tories reject him they are fools. They will, I fear. They are fools.

    But I hope Rory will hang on in there for the next time. There is something about him which has been lacking in far too many politicians and which we need in this country.
    So you turn up in NY and a helicopter just happens to crash into the building next door, and you say this is just coincidence, Cyclefree?

    I'd get a good lawyer if I were you.... ;-)
    I have the perfect alibi. I was in the air at the time - in an aeroplane over the Atlantic.
    You are in the world capital of conspiracy theories, Cyclefree. You will need better than that.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131

    Rory Stewart:

    "He pledges to walk through every county in the country if he becomes prime minister, "listening and walking, listening and walking" to ordinary people."

    I'll go with him if he does the county tops. ;)

    Rory is the only politician I'm interested in meeting. Ever.
    The only problem with walking all the counties is that people will argue about whether it's the 'new' counties / UA's, or the old ceremonial counties. I once had one gent complaining the list on my website didn't include 'Avon'.

    Never, ever, get involved in the what-is-a-county argument ... ;)
    Amen. Been there, done that, scars on my back. I like the Ceremonials although I think we messed them up in Scotland. Plus the Lord Lieutenant flag is wicked cool.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Chris said:

    eek said:

    I have no doubt that Rory is the single most impressive politician in British politics right now by a country mile. And yet. If he can't win over his fellow MPs, and then his Party members, within mere days, he will end up a big failure.

    I don't buy this nonsense of running this time to prepare for the next contest. The time when he can make a difference is now. The country needs him to win.

    Nope - this mess can't be solved. Rory is better off picking up the pieces after Boris has really screwed things up...

    Equally I wouldn't be surprised if Rory was leader of the Tories by this time next year...
    The trouble with that is, if Johnson really screws things up, the leader of the Tories won't be in a position of power for a very, very long time.
    I don't expect the Tories to be in power if Boris wins - Boris will be VoNCed before he begins or destroyed by Brexit in the way everyone will be until it's put to bed
    If Boris is VoNCed he will win a majority at the ensuing general election on a platform to deliver Brexit

    That's by no means a given. And Boris himself might lose his seat.
    If Boris is VoNCed there will be an election. If Nigel stands the Tory party would still be destroyed
    Nope, Boris slashes the Brexit Party to 13% with Yougov, leads Labour and the LDs by 7% and gets an overall Tory majority of 16
    If you’re open to a sporting bet I’ll wager with you that the Conservatives will not get an overall majority in any general election held in 2019. Void if no election.

    I’d be happy to make it charitable, stake of your choice up to £100.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited June 2019
    This thread has been

    REVOKED

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679

    NEW THREAD

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    kle4 said:

    MrsB said:

    Who gets to the last 2 depends on whether MPs vote for what's best for the country or what's best in terms of what they can as individuals personally extract from the situation.

    Even then, surely they would not vote for McVey. Would they? Please tell me they haven't sunk that far

    They don't need to, several candidates are by default backing no deal, or even prorogation.
    Prorogation was never a viable option and if that wasn’t already obvious Rory Stewart killed it stone dead tonight. The headbangers simply don’t have the numbers.
    Perhaps so, but that's immaterial to how many want to do it, or are pretending they would do it, which is just as bad.
    Streeter said:

    kle4 said:

    The shocking thing is that Rory is just making obvious, mainstream, Conservative points, clearly and without equivocation. That is shocking because we have become so inured to fudge, fantasy and extremism that the moderate, sensible voices have been cowed into silence, as indeed they have in Labour.

    Conservatism is Brexit, nothing more, nothing less. That is what the massive surge to BXP has taught us.
    In that case we need a new party to take over the great Conservative traditions of pragmatism, sound finances, opportunity, and respect for ourselves, for others and for our history. The Big Tent Party, anyone?
    Rory could have made that pitch for the Conservatives, with a moderate Brexit.

    He didn’t, so he’ll lose.
    Rory does support a moderate Brexit. That you don't recognize it as such only goes to show how difficult his job is.
    Bullocks. I’ve written over this thread and previous that I do think he’s a Conservative and I suault to shooting the messenger.
    How do you talk a death cult out of their mania?
    You appeal to the legacy of their party, their emotions, their pride and need for a winner, and their well rooted patriotism. A vision for the UK they love for the 21st Century.
    People don’t love the UK. They may love England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland or (less an less as time goes on) Britain, but the UK? Nah.

    Brexit - there’s a clue in the name.
    I love the UK. As frustrating as some of NI can be, it is just shorthand that exclides them unless you think someone saying they are British means they do not back the UK.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,133

    rcs1000 said:

    If Rory Stewart become leader of the Conservative Party, then I think William Of Orange / archer101au would literally explode.

    Would only seal their fate. Of all the Tories I know, not one of them would vote for a Tory Party led by Rory Stewart. I'd sooner vote Corbyn. Rory could be our Kim Campbell.
    Yes but the only tories you know are UKIPPERS - Rory is the real conservative party
  • rcs1000 said:

    If Rory Stewart become leader of the Conservative Party, then I think William Of Orange / archer101au would literally explode.

    Would only seal their fate. Of all the Tories I know, not one of them would vote for a Tory Party led by Rory Stewart. I'd sooner vote Corbyn. Rory could be our Kim Campbell.
    Yes but the only tories you know are UKIPPERS - Rory is the real conservative party
    Rory Stewart is the real Conservative Party? Can we imagine the likes of Disraeli, Churchill and Thatcher talking about peace and love as the answer to our problems? Can we imagine them siding with Labour to destroy the constitution and deprive the government of the parliamentary agenda?

    The party has had a major problem since Cameron and Osborne, namely that it is now infested with confused Liberal Democrats who think they are Tories.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Cyclefree said:

    Re. Brexit, he has said he'll support the cross party strategy to block No Deal (good man) and he talked at the end of the main speech about courage being not chasing the unicorns, the fantasies but facing reality.

    I'd read that to going for something close to May's-EU deal but I could be wrong.

    He's streets ahead of the other candidates and would toast Corbyn. But he won't be chosen by the lunatics who have taken over the asylum.

    Well, the event at which I was due to speak was cancelled as it turned out it was at the building on which the helicopter crash landed yesterday. What are the odds, eh!

    So have a day in NY to bum around. Have just watched Rory Stewart’s speech and his Q&A. Very impressive. The standout candidate.

    If the Tories reject him they are fools. They will, I fear. They are fools.

    But I hope Rory will hang on in there for the next time. There is something about him which has been lacking in far too many politicians and which we need in this country.
    If you're interested in lesser-known places to visit, there's the Neue Galerie on 86th and 7h near the Met, has some great Klimts (including the Woman in Gold) and a Viennese style café for some sachertorte. The Rubin Museum on 17th between 6th and 7th specializes in Himalayan Buddhist art and has some amazing stuff to see. The JP Morgan Library at 36th and Madison usually has some interesting exhibitions on.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Chris said:

    eek said:

    I have no doubt that Rory is the single most impressive politician in British politics right now by a country mile. And yet. If he can't win over his fellow MPs, and then his Party members, within mere days, he will end up a big failure.

    I don't buy this nonsense of running this time to prepare for the next contest. The time when he can make a difference is now. The country needs him to win.

    Nope - this mess can't be solved. Rory is better off picking up the pieces after Boris has really screwed things up...

    Equally I wouldn't be surprised if Rory was leader of the Tories by this time next year...
    The trouble with that is, if Johnson really screws things up, the leader of the Tories won't be in a position of power for a very, very long time.
    I don't expect the Tories to be in power if Boris wins - Boris will be VoNCed before he begins or destroyed by Brexit in the way everyone will be until it's put to bed
    If Boris is VoNCed he will win a majority at the ensuing general election on a platform to deliver Brexit

    That's by no means a given. And Boris himself might lose his seat.
    If Boris is VoNCed there will be an election. If Nigel stands the Tory party would still be destroyed
    Nope, Boris slashes the Brexit Party to 13% with Yougov, leads Labour and the LDs by 7% and gets an overall Tory majority of 16


    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1136006739864825858?s=20
    Your fieldwork is a fortnight out of date.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Chris said:

    eek said:

    I have no doubt that Rory is the single most impressive politician in British politics right now by a country mile. And yet. If he can't win over his fellow MPs, and then his Party members, within mere days, he will end up a big failure.

    I don't buy this nonsense of running this time to prepare for the next contest. The time when he can make a difference is now. The country needs him to win.

    Nope - this mess can't be solved. Rory is better off picking up the pieces after Boris has really screwed things up...

    Equally I wouldn't be surprised if Rory was leader of the Tories by this time next year...
    The trouble with that is, if Johnson really screws things up, the leader of the Tories won't be in a position of power for a very, very long time.
    I don't expect the Tories to be in power if Boris wins - Boris will be VoNCed before he begins or destroyed by Brexit in the way everyone will be until it's put to bed
    If Boris is VoNCed he will win a majority at the ensuing general election on a platform to deliver Brexit

    That's by no means a given. And Boris himself might lose his seat.
    If Boris is VoNCed there will be an election. If Nigel stands the Tory party would still be destroyed
    Nope, Boris slashes the Brexit Party to 13% with Yougov, leads Labour and the LDs by 7% and gets an overall Tory majority of 16
    If you’re open to a sporting bet I’ll wager with you that the Conservatives will not get an overall majority in any general election held in 2019. Void if no election.

    I’d be happy to make it charitable, stake of your choice up to £100.
    OK but £50 is my limit I am afraid and it only applies if Boris is leader, I do not see any other Tory leader getting an overall majority
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    Chris said:

    eek said:

    I have no doubt that Rory is the single most impressive politician in British politics right now by a country mile. And yet. If he can't win over his fellow MPs, and then his Party members, within mere days, he will end up a big failure.

    I don't buy this nonsense of running this time to prepare for the next contest. The time when he can make a difference is now. The country needs him to win.

    Nope - this mess can't be solved. Rory is better off picking up the pieces after Boris has really screwed things up...

    Equally I wouldn't be surprised if Rory was leader of the Tories by this time next year...
    The trouble with that is, if Johnson really screws things up, the leader of the Tories won't be in a position of power for a very, very long time.
    I don't expect the Tories to be in power if Boris wins - Boris will be VoNCed before he begins or destroyed by Brexit in the way everyone will be until it's put to bed
    If Boris is VoNCed he will win a majority at the ensuing general election on a platform to deliver Brexit

    That's by no means a given. And Boris himself might lose his seat.
    If Boris is VoNCed there will be an election. If Nigel stands the Tory party would still be destroyed
    Nope, Boris slashes the Brexit Party to 13% with Yougov, leads Labour and the LDs by 7% and gets an overall Tory majority of 16


    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1136006739864825858?s=20
    Your fieldwork is a fortnight out of date.
    Opinions will not have changed that much
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    rcs1000 said:

    If Rory Stewart become leader of the Conservative Party, then I think William Of Orange / archer101au would literally explode.

    Would only seal their fate. Of all the Tories I know, not one of them would vote for a Tory Party led by Rory Stewart. I'd sooner vote Corbyn. Rory could be our Kim Campbell.
    Yes but the only tories you know are UKIPPERS - Rory is the real conservative party
    Rory Stewart is the real Conservative Party? Can we imagine the likes of Disraeli, Churchill and Thatcher talking about peace and love as the answer to our problems? Can we imagine them siding with Labour to destroy the constitution and deprive the government of the parliamentary agenda?

    The party has had a major problem since Cameron and Osborne, namely that it is now infested with confused Liberal Democrats who think they are Tories.
    Disraeli's main opponents were the Liberals of course albeit Churchill was briefly a Liberal himself
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131

    kle4 said:

    The shocking thing is that Rory is just making obvious, mainstream, Conservative points, clearly and without equivocation. That is shocking because we have become so inured to fudge, fantasy and extremism that the moderate, sensible voices have been cowed into silence, as indeed they have in Labour.

    Conservatism is Brexit, nothing more, nothing less. That is what the massive surge to BXP has taught us.
    In that case we need a new party to take over the great Conservative traditions of pragmatism, sound finances, opportunity, and respect for ourselves, for others and for our history. The Big Tent Party, anyone?
    Rory could have made that pitch for the Conservatives, with a moderate Brexit.

    He didn’t, so he’ll lose.
    Rory does support a moderate Brexit. That you don't recognize it as such only goes to show how difficult his job is.
    Bullocks. I’ve written over this thread and previous that I do think he’s a Conservative and I support both his Brexit vision and Theresa May’s Deal.

    But, I understand my party and he’s getting his tone and pitch wrong.

    Try again. And think next time before you default to shooting the messenger.
    How do you talk a death cult out of their mania?
    You appeal to the legacy of their party, their emotions, their pride and need for a winner, and their well rooted patriotism. A vision for the UK they love for the 21st Century.
    They don’t have a vision for the UK. They have a vision for provincial southern England based around introverted chauvinism. Everyone else can get stuffed.
    @AlastairMeeks unfortunately makes a valid point. Patriotism depends on the patria, and one major disappointment for me since 2014 is the discovery that for many Conservatives the patria is England, or England and Wales, or some nebulous Anglosphere. Scotland and Northern Ireland are valuable and should be fought for not discarded. I hate to get all Tywin Lannister, but the family must survive.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    MrsB said:

    Who gets to the last 2 depends on whether MPs vote for what's best for the country or what's best in terms of what they can as individuals personally extract from the situation.

    Even then, surely they would not vote for McVey. Would they? Please tell me they haven't sunk that far

    Don't worry Fallon's on the job. Mr fixer himself. At the moment he's telling everyone what a great bloke Boris is. In the event of his numbers slipping he'll be available to plead the case for anyone else who looks like a possible winner. If that's McVey Fallon wont be far away. The Tories are nothing if not opportunists.
This discussion has been closed.