That wasn't an ad hominem attack on a great officer of state.
Very poor. Bercow is absolutely right: to prorogue Parliament to ram through a no deal would put a bomb under the constitution and place the Queen in an impossible position. It is even more irresponsible that the rest of the guff from the nutcase no dealers. The Conservative party has indeed been made mad and deserves destruction.
Bercow has put multiple of his own bombs under the constitution. What's good for the goose ...
Exactly. Our turn now.
You would, I hope, have been horrified if Cameron had perogued parliament to avoid invoking Article 50.
You would have been disgusted at his behaviour. It would have been an affront to our parliamentary democracy.
Imagine for a second that No Deal then turns out to be unpleasant. How do you think history will see you?
I would have been horrified yes, as that would be ignoring the referendum result. All the comparisons you make ignore the gigantic elephant in the room, which is that this country voted in a democratic referendum to leave the EU.
Proroguing parliament to avoid implementing ref result = Bad. Proroguing parliament to force it to do what it promised/we voted for = Good.
Hope that's simple enough to understand. And remember, breaking conventions was started by this Speaker and his cronies of Letwin and Grieve - do they expect us to just sit back and abide by rules they do not? Nah. We're going to play just as dirty now.
If the other side has broken conventions, then the solution is to make the conventions more solid, not to say "my turn to break them now."
We have a parliamentary democracy. Subverting it because it gets you the result you want will end up being used against you in the future. Do you really want that?
If this parliament will not do the democratic bidding of the people via the referendum then hold another election, and elect one that will. Don't try and subvert it.
"Being used against you in future"
Erm, that's exactly what is happening now with a bent Speaker and MPs who simply refuse point blank to accept what people voted for.
I'm genuinely starting to believe Farage will end up in Number 10.
Indeed, I suspect that Boris Johnson's strategy is to be sufficiently objectionable that the EU veto any extension he asks for, therefore ensuring they get blamed for No Deal.
The danger with this strategy is that the EU does not play ball and instead grants an extension to 2022.
In my view the EU is almost certain to grant an extension. And PM Boris Johnson, regardless of macho talk at this point, will opt for that over No Deal. Ditto any other feasible PM.
I therefore think No Deal in 2019 is far less likely than the betting market implies. Happy to lay it at 4.
But Boris cannot survive as PM unless he seeks to deliver no deal. Therefore he will seek to deliver no deal - unless the EU renegotiates he has no other option if he wants to be PM.
He’s been watching Mrs M very carefully and already copying her submarine strategy. I am sure he noticed her promising something dozens of times and then not delivering, yet remaining in office. And also how difficult it is to get rid of a PM determined to stay in the chair. Likely even more difficult a second time.
The deadlines for him are far tighter, and have been shifted several times already. If he is as bright as he clearly thinks he is to be he should recognise that.
Indeed, I suspect that Boris Johnson's strategy is to be sufficiently objectionable that the EU veto any extension he asks for, therefore ensuring they get blamed for No Deal.
The danger with this strategy is that the EU does not play ball and instead grants an extension to 2022.
In my view the EU is almost certain to grant an extension. And PM Boris Johnson, regardless of macho talk at this point, will opt for that over No Deal. Ditto any other feasible PM.
I therefore think No Deal in 2019 is far less likely than the betting market implies. Happy to lay it at 4.
You think Macron is bluffing? I don't. He has his political machismo and prestige to defend, and he has made No Extension a definite red line. He also strikes me as the kind of man who cares about how he is perceived.
He likes playing hard cop, which goes down well at home. But the EU doesn’t work that way; failure to understand how the EU operates has been a key weakness of you leavers.
That wasn't an ad hominem attack on a great officer of state.
Very poor. Bercow is absolutely right: to prorogue Parliament to ram through a no deal would put a bomb under the constitution and place the Queen in an impossible position. It is even more irresponsible that the rest of the guff from the nutcase no dealers. The Conservative party has indeed been made mad and deserves destruction.
Bercow has put multiple of his own bombs under the constitution. What's good for the goose ...
Exactly. Our turn now.
You would, I hope, have been horrified if Cameron had perogued parliament to avoid invoking Article 50.
You would have been disgusted at his behaviour. It would have been an affront to our parliamentary democracy.
Imagine for a second that No Deal then turns out to be unpleasant. How do you think history will see you?
I would have been horrified yes, as that would be ignoring the referendum result. All the comparisons you make ignore the gigantic elephant in the room, which is that this country voted in a democratic referendum to leave the EU.
Proroguing parliament to avoid implementing ref result = Bad. Proroguing parliament to force it to do what it promised/we voted for = Good.
Hope that's simple enough to understand. And remember, breaking conventions was started by this Speaker and his cronies of Letwin and Grieve - do they expect us to just sit back and abide by rules they do not? Nah. We're going to play just as dirty now.
If the other side has broken conventions, then the solution is to make the conventions more solid, not to say "my turn to break them now."
We have a parliamentary democracy. Subverting it because it gets you the result you want will end up being used against you in the future. Do you really want that?
If this parliament will not do the democratic bidding of the people via the referendum then hold another election, and elect one that will. Don't try and subvert it.
"Being used against you in future"
Erm, that's exactly what is happening now with a bent Speaker and MPs who simply refuse point blank to accept what people voted for.
I'm genuinely starting to believe Farage will end up in Number 10.
It he's elected, good for him. That's parliamentary democracy.
Presumably we leave with No Deal unless Parliament votes to formally revoke?
Quite. I am amazed we aren't discussing this MORE.
It is the most likely outcome, now.
It's still unlikely that the EU will throw Ireland under the bus in such a way. If they were willing to do so then they already would have done so over the backstop.
This is intriguing. The source is the Sun, so caveat emptor,
In an alternate universe where we had left with the Withdrawal Agreement I could have foreseen technological solutions being a major factor in making the Great UK-EU free trade deal of 2024 work for both sides and the border.
I just cannot envisage how hand-waving about technological solutions, right now, can achieve that in advance.
The 2015 Licence Fee settlement had four components:
- LF to start rising again in line with CPI from 2017 - BBC funding of broadband (£150m per year) to cease - iPlayer loophole closed (ie TVL required to watch iPlayer) - BBC to take over cost of TVL for over 75s
Factoring in household growth, putting it all together the BBC said it represented "flat cash" or a 10% real terms cut over 5 years (assuming 2% inflation for 5 years). The BBC said it was a good deal. Indeed compared to most public services a 10% real terms cut was a pretty generous result.
Whilst technically the BBC took over responsibility for the policy, there was no expectation the BBC would start charging over 75s - the whole deal was a package.
Now the BBC is going to start charging approx 65% of over 75 households - it will have done better than just about any public service other than the NHS - with almost no real terms cut in funding at all.
(to be continued)
iPlayer loophole was no such thing.
If the BBC is to be commercial and we rename the TV Licence to be a BBC Subscription Fee then iplayer being charged it makes sense.
But the TV licence is a fee to watch TV even if you don't want live BBC. The TV licence should be abolished for anyone who wants to watch TV but not BBC.
I think the licence fee and the BBC should cease to exist.
I also think that aged celebrities like Gloria, Esther and Angela arguing the Golden generation should continue to get free stuff just because they are old irrespective of their wealth is completely unrealistic in capitalist Britain.
Wait till they have to pay for their cataract operation under PM Nige.
The media can't wait to ask him who would win between a lion and a bear.
What the hell was the lion/bear thing anyway? Did he ever explain?
Mark Harper did an ask me anything on tw@tter where someone asked him who would win between a lion and a bear. So some hack repeated it as the final question and it was the only news that came out of his launch.
Good to see the media treating the contest with appropriate seriousness. Bunch of muppets. Yet we wonder why so many good people choose not to go into politics or run for high office.
Indeed, I suspect that Boris Johnson's strategy is to be sufficiently objectionable that the EU veto any extension he asks for, therefore ensuring they get blamed for No Deal.
The danger with this strategy is that the EU does not play ball and instead grants an extension to 2022.
In my view the EU is almost certain to grant an extension. And PM Boris Johnson, regardless of macho talk at this point, will opt for that over No Deal. Ditto any other feasible PM.
I therefore think No Deal in 2019 is far less likely than the betting market implies. Happy to lay it at 4.
You think Macron is bluffing? I don't. He has his political machismo and prestige to defend, and he has made No Extension a definite red line. He also strikes me as the kind of man who cares about how he is perceived.
He likes playing hard cop, which goes down well at home. But the EU doesn’t work that way; failure to understand how the EU operates has been a key weakness of you leavers.
If Macron vetoes no extension as all 27 EU nations must agree
Indeed, I suspect that Boris Johnson's strategy is to be sufficiently objectionable that the EU veto any extension he asks for, therefore ensuring they get blamed for No Deal.
The danger with this strategy is that the EU does not play ball and instead grants an extension to 2022.
In my view the EU is almost certain to grant an extension. And PM Boris Johnson, regardless of macho talk at this point, will opt for that over No Deal. Ditto any other feasible PM.
I therefore think No Deal in 2019 is far less likely than the betting market implies. Happy to lay it at 4.
You think Macron is bluffing? I don't. He has his political machismo and prestige to defend, and he has made No Extension a definite red line. He also strikes me as the kind of man who cares about how he is perceived.
He likes playing hard cop, which goes down well at home. But the EU doesn’t work that way; failure to understand how the EU operates has been a key weakness of you leavers.
If Macron vetoes no extension as all 27 EU nations must agree
As I said, you don’t understand how the EU operates.
The 2015 Licence Fee settlement had four components:
- LF to start rising again in line with CPI from 2017 - BBC funding of broadband (£150m per year) to cease - iPlayer loophole closed (ie TVL required to watch iPlayer) - BBC to take over cost of TVL for over 75s
Factoring in household growth, putting it all together the BBC said it represented "flat cash" or a 10% real terms cut over 5 years (assuming 2% inflation for 5 years). The BBC said it was a good deal. Indeed compared to most public services a 10% real terms cut was a pretty generous result.
Whilst technically the BBC took over responsibility for the policy, there was no expectation the BBC would start charging over 75s - the whole deal was a package.
Now the BBC is going to start charging approx 65% of over 75 households - it will have done better than just about any public service other than the NHS - with almost no real terms cut in funding at all.
(to be continued)
iPlayer loophole was no such thing.
If the BBC is to be commercial and we rename the TV Licence to be a BBC Subscription Fee then iplayer being charged it makes sense.
But the TV licence is a fee to watch TV even if you don't want live BBC. The TV licence should be abolished for anyone who wants to watch TV but not BBC.
I think the licence fee and the BBC should cease to exist.
Mr. Owls, the problem with capitalism is that sometimes it fails. The problem with socialism is that it always fails. And usually a lot harder than capitalism.
Steve Baker calls for the abolition of the monarchy and the installation of Mr and Mrs Peter Bone as "Dear Leader and Leaderene"
To be fair they only asked a question and nodded, they did not comment for or against Brexit just asked about its implications.
That said while the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh are almost certainly Leavers and the Queen Mother was reportedly very anti EU, William and Kate are almost certainly Remainers as is Prince Charles. The age divide runs even amongst the Royals
Extraordinary insights! The evidence being what, precisely?
The Queen asking what the EU has ever done for us at a banquet, the Queen Mother saw the EU as a German plot, the Cambridges are basically young metropolitan liberals, Prince Charles is a climate change obsessive and basically a LD
Indeed, I suspect that Boris Johnson's strategy is to be sufficiently objectionable that the EU veto any extension he asks for, therefore ensuring they get blamed for No Deal.
The danger with this strategy is that the EU does not play ball and instead grants an extension to 2022.
In my view the EU is almost certain to grant an extension. And PM Boris Johnson, regardless of macho talk at this point, will opt for that over No Deal. Ditto any other feasible PM.
I therefore think No Deal in 2019 is far less likely than the betting market implies. Happy to lay it at 4.
But Boris cannot survive as PM unless he seeks to deliver no deal. Therefore he will seek to deliver no deal - unless the EU renegotiates he has no other option if he wants to be PM.
He’s been watching Mrs M very carefully and already copying her submarine strategy. I am sure he noticed her promising something dozens of times and then not delivering, yet remaining in office. And also how difficult it is to get rid of a PM determined to stay in the chair. Likely even more difficult a second time.
The deadlines for him are far tighter, and have been shifted several times already. If he is as bright as he clearly thinks he is to be he should recognise that.
He has confidence in his ability to wing anything and I genuinely don’t think he is calculating anything beyond what to say to get the top job right now.
Steve Baker calls for the abolition of the monarchy and the installation of Mr and Mrs Peter Bone as "Dear Leader and Leaderene"
To be fair they only asked a question and nodded, they did not comment for or against Brexit just asked about its implications.
That said while the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh are almost certainly Leavers and the Queen Mother was reportedly very anti EU, William and Kate are almost certainly Remainers as is Prince Charles. The age divide runs even amongst the Royals
Extraordinary insights! The evidence being what, precisely?
Please do not ask him for more polling evidence !!!!!
Indeed, I suspect that Boris Johnson's strategy is to be sufficiently objectionable that the EU veto any extension he asks for, therefore ensuring they get blamed for No Deal.
The danger with this strategy is that the EU does not play ball and instead grants an extension to 2022.
In my view the EU is almost certain to grant an extension. And PM Boris Johnson, regardless of macho talk at this point, will opt for that over No Deal. Ditto any other feasible PM.
I therefore think No Deal in 2019 is far less likely than the betting market implies. Happy to lay it at 4.
But Boris cannot survive as PM unless he seeks to deliver no deal. Therefore he will seek to deliver no deal - unless the EU renegotiates he has no other option if he wants to be PM.
Boris wants Canada style FTA, if as Guido reports the EU will look at technical solutions for the backstop Boris will take that and the Withdrawal Agreement which he has already voted for.
Boris only prefers No Deal to further extension or revoke
Indeed, I suspect that Boris Johnson's strategy is to be sufficiently objectionable that the EU veto any extension he asks for, therefore ensuring they get blamed for No Deal.
The danger with this strategy is that the EU does not play ball and instead grants an extension to 2022.
In my view the EU is almost certain to grant an extension. And PM Boris Johnson, regardless of macho talk at this point, will opt for that over No Deal. Ditto any other feasible PM.
I therefore think No Deal in 2019 is far less likely than the betting market implies. Happy to lay it at 4.
But Boris cannot survive as PM unless he seeks to deliver no deal. Therefore he will seek to deliver no deal - unless the EU renegotiates he has no other option if he wants to be PM.
He will seek no deal and then change the narrative as and when required
Indeed, I suspect that Boris Johnson's strategy is to be sufficiently objectionable that the EU veto any extension he asks for, therefore ensuring they get blamed for No Deal.
The danger with this strategy is that the EU does not play ball and instead grants an extension to 2022.
In my view the EU is almost certain to grant an extension. And PM Boris Johnson, regardless of macho talk at this point, will opt for that over No Deal. Ditto any other feasible PM.
I therefore think No Deal in 2019 is far less likely than the betting market implies. Happy to lay it at 4.
You think Macron is bluffing? I don't. He has his political machismo and prestige to defend, and he has made No Extension a definite red line. He also strikes me as the kind of man who cares about how he is perceived.
He likes playing hard cop, which goes down well at home. But the EU doesn’t work that way; failure to understand how the EU operates has been a key weakness of you leavers.
If Macron vetoes no extension as all 27 EU nations must agree
As I said, you don’t understand how the EU operates.
Macron blocked further extension to January 2020 last time, October is his limit unless we offer EUref2
Mr. Owls, the problem with capitalism is that sometimes it fails. The problem with socialism is that it always fails. And usually a lot harder than capitalism.
About time Pensioners saw the harsh reality of voting Tory / TBP IMO
Steve Baker calls for the abolition of the monarchy and the installation of Mr and Mrs Peter Bone as "Dear Leader and Leaderene"
To be fair they only asked a question and nodded, they did not comment for or against Brexit just asked about its implications.
That said while the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh are almost certainly Leavers and the Queen Mother was reportedly very anti EU, William and Kate are almost certainly Remainers as is Prince Charles. The age divide runs even amongst the Royals
Extraordinary insights! The evidence being what, precisely?
The Queen asking what the EU has ever done for us at a banquet, the Queen Mother saw the EU as a German plot, the Cambridges are basically young metropolitan liberals, Prince Charles is a climate change obsessive and basically a LD
I think you’ve misremembered what the Queen is reported to have said.
If the other side has broken conventions, then the solution is to make the conventions more solid, not to say "my turn to break them now."
We have a parliamentary democracy. Subverting it because it gets you the result you want will end up being used against you in the future. Do you really want that?
If this parliament will not do the democratic bidding of the people via the referendum then hold another election, and elect one that will. Don't try and subvert it.
Agreed. This idea that it is a good idea to constitutionally mess around because someone else did it first is not only very childish logic, it is an every escalating conflict which ends poorly for everyone. I am amazed people are willing to go down such a route while saying they care about more than just a single issue, as I would hope they do.
This is pretty much the reasoning the Dems use in the US, whereas the GOP do whatever gives them an advantage. Guess who's come out the better.
The 2015 Licence Fee settlement had four components:
- LF to start rising again in line with CPI from 2017 - BBC funding of broadband (£150m per year) to cease - iPlayer loophole closed (ie TVL required to watch iPlayer) - BBC to take over cost of TVL for over 75s
Factoring in household growth, putting it all together the BBC said it represented "flat cash" or a 10% real terms cut over 5 years (assuming 2% inflation for 5 years). The BBC said it was a good deal. Indeed compared to most public services a 10% real terms cut was a pretty generous result.
Whilst technically the BBC took over responsibility for the policy, there was no expectation the BBC would start charging over 75s - the whole deal was a package.
Now the BBC is going to start charging approx 65% of over 75 households - it will have done better than just about any public service other than the NHS - with almost no real terms cut in funding at all.
(to be continued)
iPlayer loophole was no such thing.
If the BBC is to be commercial and we rename the TV Licence to be a BBC Subscription Fee then iplayer being charged it makes sense.
But the TV licence is a fee to watch TV even if you don't want live BBC. The TV licence should be abolished for anyone who wants to watch TV but not BBC.
I think the licence fee and the BBC should cease to exist.
I was at Parliament today and saw Esther McVey and Andrew Bridgen having a tete-a-tete on the terrace. Still they could have been talking about last nights Eastenders.
Indeed, I suspect that Boris Johnson's strategy is to be sufficiently objectionable that the EU veto any extension he asks for, therefore ensuring they get blamed for No Deal.
The danger with this strategy is that the EU does not play ball and instead grants an extension to 2022.
In my view the EU is almost certain to grant an extension. And PM Boris Johnson, regardless of macho talk at this point, will opt for that over No Deal. Ditto any other feasible PM.
I therefore think No Deal in 2019 is far less likely than the betting market implies. Happy to lay it at 4.
You think Macron is bluffing? I don't. He has his political machismo and prestige to defend, and he has made No Extension a definite red line. He also strikes me as the kind of man who cares about how he is perceived.
He likes playing hard cop, which goes down well at home. But the EU doesn’t work that way; failure to understand how the EU operates has been a key weakness of you leavers.
If Macron vetoes no extension as all 27 EU nations must agree
As I said, you don’t understand how the EU operates.
Macron blocked further extension to January 2020 last time, October is his limit unless we offer EUref2
I think this is right. Macron cannot yield again without a very good reason. Of course we might give him a very good reason.
But Boris cannot survive as PM unless he seeks to deliver no deal. Therefore he will seek to deliver no deal - unless the EU renegotiates he has no other option if he wants to be PM.
He has to look like he is prepared to No Deal in October in order to win this contest and become PM. Then when the crunch comes I think he will opt for fudge and delay, because going through with it will be more likely to end his tenure than not doing so.
My prediction for 'unlikely but most likely' is that he ratifies the May Deal - with some cosmetic changes so it can be branded the Johnson Deal - at some point in 2020.
The only way I can see No Deal in 2019 is if he calls a GE, runs on that as a commitment, and wins it outright. I don't think he will call that election - and even if he did I think he would lose to Labour.
Steve Baker calls for the abolition of the monarchy and the installation of Mr and Mrs Peter Bone as "Dear Leader and Leaderene"
To be fair they only asked a question and nodded, they did not comment for or against Brexit just asked about its implications.
That said while the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh are almost certainly Leavers and the Queen Mother was reportedly very anti EU, William and Kate are almost certainly Remainers as is Prince Charles. The age divide runs even amongst the Royals
Extraordinary insights! The evidence being what, precisely?
The Queen asking what the EU has ever done for us at a banquet, the Queen Mother saw the EU as a German plot, the Cambridges are basically young metropolitan liberals, Prince Charles is a climate change obsessive and basically a LD
You've got to remember what an enormous Monty Python fan she is.
If the other side has broken conventions, then the solution is to make the conventions more solid, not to say "my turn to break them now."
We have a parliamentary democracy. Subverting it because it gets you the result you want will end up being used against you in the future. Do you really want that?
If this parliament will not do the democratic bidding of the people via the referendum then hold another election, and elect one that will. Don't try and subvert it.
Agreed. This idea that it is a good idea to constitutionally mess around because someone else did it first is not only very childish logic, it is an every escalating conflict which ends poorly for everyone. I am amazed people are willing to go down such a route while saying they care about more than just a single issue, as I would hope they do.
This is pretty much the reasoning the Dems use in the US, whereas the GOP do whatever gives them an advantage. Guess who's come out the better.
Regardless, if people are prepared to be just as shitty as they claim their opponents are, then they are equally as deserving of contempt.
But Boris cannot survive as PM unless he seeks to deliver no deal. Therefore he will seek to deliver no deal - unless the EU renegotiates he has no other option if he wants to be PM.
He has to look like he is prepared to No Deal in October in order to win this contest and become PM. Then when the crunch comes I think he will opt for fudge and delay, because going through with it will be more likely to end his tenure than not doing so.
My prediction for 'unlikely but most likely' is that he ratifies the May Deal - with some cosmetic changes so it can be branded the Johnson Deal - at some point in 2020.
The only way I can see No Deal in 2019 is if he calls a GE, runs on that as a commitment, and wins it outright. I don't think he will call that election - and even if he did I think he would lose to Labour.
I just don't think he can fudge and delay even if he wants to try it. I think he has boxed himself in, the EU have decided they will not cosmetically budge, and therefore he will try for a GE rather than delay for any other reason. I think that explains a lot of his support, because plenty of MPs who may not back no deal think that a GE is pretty inevitable as nothing else will pass and no deal will not be allowed, therefore they need to maximise their chances of holding the seats, which is under Boris.
Hunt and co don't agree they'd do very well in that scenario, and I believe them, but even if he is right he has no plan if the EU do not renegotiate to avoid a GE.
But Boris cannot survive as PM unless he seeks to deliver no deal. Therefore he will seek to deliver no deal - unless the EU renegotiates he has no other option if he wants to be PM.
He has to look like he is prepared to No Deal in October in order to win this contest and become PM. Then when the crunch comes I think he will opt for fudge and delay, because going through with it will be more likely to end his tenure than not doing so.
My prediction for 'unlikely but most likely' is that he ratifies the May Deal - with some cosmetic changes so it can be branded the Johnson Deal - at some point in 2020.
The only way I can see No Deal in 2019 is if he calls a GE, runs on that as a commitment, and wins it outright. I don't think he will call that election - and even if he did I think he would lose to Labour.
Hold that thought. Probably whoever becomes PM will immediately face a confidence vote tabled by Labour. The new PM's task on Day One will be to shore up his or her support -- so phone the constituency parties to call off the dogs on Gauke and the others, and bung Arlene another billion or two. Otherwise we will have more to bet on.
"It he's elected, good for him. That's parliamentary democracy."
Maybe you can find some convention then to stop him reaching Number 10? Order the Queen via Bercow to appoint Grieve as Dear Leader for a life term?
?
Processes matter more than outcomes.
We have survived long as a country, because we've recognised that.
Indeed we did, until Remainers and the Speaker made it clear they were willing to smash through age old conventions to get their way. I'm disgusted.
But there's fire in my belly now that I haven't had since June 2016.
I'm no fan of Bercow and his pals either, but if someone is playing with fire in front of me like a wally I don't set myself on fire to show them how outraged I am at what they are doing.
That would a blast too, of course. Wonder when was the last time it happened for a debut. Norman St John Stevas?
But, no, smashing the Palladium like Freddie Starr did in 71 or thereabouts with his Jagger impression and then his wig fell off in the middle of it - I'd just marginally rather do that.
Steve Baker calls for the abolition of the monarchy and the installation of Mr and Mrs Peter Bone as "Dear Leader and Leaderene"
To be fair they only asked a question and nodded, they did not comment for or against Brexit just asked about its implications.
That said while the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh are almost certainly Leavers and the Queen Mother was reportedly very anti EU, William and Kate are almost certainly Remainers as is Prince Charles. The age divide runs even amongst the Royals
Extraordinary insights! The evidence being what, precisely?
The Queen asking what the EU has ever done for us at a banquet, the Queen Mother saw the EU as a German plot, the Cambridges are basically young metropolitan liberals, Prince Charles is a climate change obsessive and basically a LD
Very flimsy evidence combined with pure invention. Many of the older generation are motivated by the 'never again' reaction to WWII, and support European unity for that reason. Charles is an eccentric fogey with a number of niche obsessions. This does not make him a LibDem. The Cambridges have been a model of political neutrality, more county set than metroplitan liberals.
Steve Baker calls for the abolition of the monarchy and the installation of Mr and Mrs Peter Bone as "Dear Leader and Leaderene"
To be fair they only asked a question and nodded, they did not comment for or against Brexit just asked about its implications.
That said while the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh are almost certainly Leavers and the Queen Mother was reportedly very anti EU, William and Kate are almost certainly Remainers as is Prince Charles. The age divide runs even amongst the Royals
Eh, that would be impressive but it would only be a gimmick. Much as I like Rory's style in this campaign he is offering no plan that will actually get through parliament.
Rory the PM after Boris has failed and Corbyn has won a majority and made a total hash?
Yup, that hope is enough to keep me in the Tory party for the foreseeable future.
#TeamRory
I like Rory as well. But if he is going to make a serious bid, he needs to eat his puddings.
In all seriousness, his looks are a bit distracting. Is it a condition or is he just really really scrawny? He's also deathly pale, which isn't a great combination.
Rory the PM after Boris has failed and Corbyn has won a majority and made a total hash?
Yup, that hope is enough to keep me in the Tory party for the foreseeable future.
#TeamRory
I like Rory as well. But if he is going to make a serious bid, he needs to eat his puddings.
In all seriousness, his looks are a bit distracting. Is it a condition or is he just really really scrawny? He's also deathly pale, which isn't a great combination.
It really shouldn't matter, yet it does.
If he was already established as a front runner it might not as much of an issue, but for an unknown, and an unknown who is essentially telling a large chunk of the party membership they are living in a fantasy world, it sure doesnt help him.
Mark Harper undoubtedly looks the most like a stock photo model of 'middle aged businessman' though.
Rory the PM after Boris has failed and Corbyn has won a majority and made a total hash?
Yup, that hope is enough to keep me in the Tory party for the foreseeable future.
#TeamRory
I like Rory as well. But if he is going to make a serious bid, he needs to eat his puddings.
In all seriousness, his looks are a bit distracting. Is it a condition or is he just really really scrawny? He's also deathly pale, which isn't a great combination.
It really shouldn't matter, yet it does.
If he was already established as a front runner it might not as much of an issue, but for an unknown, and an unknown who is essentially telling a large chunk of the party membership they are living in a fantasy world, it sure doesnt help him.
Mark Harper undoubtedly looks the most like a stock photo model of 'middle aged businessman' though.
Quite. And I didn't realise there's a whole meme about him being a Victorian ghost:
Steve Baker calls for the abolition of the monarchy and the installation of Mr and Mrs Peter Bone as "Dear Leader and Leaderene"
To be fair they only asked a question and nodded, they did not comment for or against Brexit just asked about its implications.
That said while the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh are almost certainly Leavers and the Queen Mother was reportedly very anti EU, William and Kate are almost certainly Remainers as is Prince Charles. The age divide runs even amongst the Royals
Extraordinary insights! The evidence being what, precisely?
The Queen asking what the EU has ever done for us at a banquet, the Queen Mother saw the EU as a German plot, the Cambridges are basically young metropolitan liberals, Prince Charles is a climate change obsessive and basically a LD
Very flimsy evidence combined with pure invention. Many of the older generation are motivated by the 'never again' reaction to WWII, and support European unity for that reason. Charles is an eccentric fogey with a number of niche obsessions. This does not make him a LibDem. The Cambridges have been a model of political neutrality, more county set than metroplitan liberals.
well said. HYUFD who isn't normally as loony as many leavers (even tho he supports Boris), is talking almost as much crap as Philip-lets-go-to-war-with-Europe-Thompson
Tories have a major problem (well several, but here's one). Boris can reach out and drag Farage voters back. Rory can reach out a bring floating Lab/Lib/Tory voters.
Who is more likely to bring enough votes in and beat Corbyn?
Tories have a major problem (well several, but here's one). Boris can reach out and drag Farage voters back. Rory can reach out a bring floating Lab/Lib/Tory voters.
Who is more likely to bring enough votes in and beat Corbyn?
I'm not so sure the answer is actually Boris.
Ah, but the issue is also who can hold onto the most voters they currently have. Much as I dislike Boris, the members and many Tory voters probably align better with him than Rory. The candidates will push some away as well as pull some in.
Rory the PM after Boris has failed and Corbyn has won a majority and made a total hash?
Yup, that hope is enough to keep me in the Tory party for the foreseeable future.
#TeamRory
At some time it may be time to pull the plug. At some point a party is too far gone to return to what it was.
Hmm, I would like to agree with TSE, but I think my standing order to my local association is likely to stopped until someone like Rory is able to take back control from the nutjobs and economy wreckers
Rory the PM after Boris has failed and Corbyn has won a majority and made a total hash?
Yup, that hope is enough to keep me in the Tory party for the foreseeable future.
#TeamRory
I like Rory as well. But if he is going to make a serious bid, he needs to eat his puddings.
In all seriousness, his looks are a bit distracting. Is it a condition or is he just really really scrawny? He's also deathly pale, which isn't a great combination.
It really shouldn't matter, yet it does.
If he was already established as a front runner it might not as much of an issue, but for an unknown, and an unknown who is essentially telling a large chunk of the party membership they are living in a fantasy world, it sure doesnt help him.
Mark Harper undoubtedly looks the most like a stock photo model of 'middle aged businessman' though.
Quite. And I didn't realise there's a whole meme about him being a Victorian ghost:
In all honesty, there is something in that - since he seems to look both old and young at the same time! He gives a decent speech though, and fair play to his unconventional approach. Hopefully he at least makes it past the first round.
I think the issue with standup is mostly money. Most comics spend years on the circuit, honing their material in a different town every night for a couple of hundred quid, and with a lifetime of experience to draw on. When the suddenly become successful, and an income of a couple of grand a month becomes a couple of hundred grand, they understandably lose their edge a little and a lot of them struggle to adjust - hence we see older comics as producers and writers, with the occasional TV game show to keep their eye in, rather than on the standup circuit.
Grimy occupation. And yet, granted any wish, that is what I would plump for, to be a successful stand-up comic. I would choose that above movie star, billionaire hedge fund manager, sporting icon, top politician, you name it - even above male model.
The buzz you must get from making hundreds of people corpse live at your material and delivery must be amazing. I cannot imagine how it could be topped.
Rory the PM after Boris has failed and Corbyn has won a majority and made a total hash?
Yup, that hope is enough to keep me in the Tory party for the foreseeable future.
#TeamRory
I like Rory as well. But if he is going to make a serious bid, he needs to eat his puddings.
In all seriousness, his looks are a bit distracting. Is it a condition or is he just really really scrawny? He's also deathly pale, which isn't a great combination.
It really shouldn't matter, yet it does.
Speaking as a theorist, my guess is that he is fit and has low subcutaneous fat, very venous. Could make a century. Leanness is no longer common, but the other day I saw a family of four who were lean, apparently fit, and non-smokers too.
Comments
Erm, that's exactly what is happening now with a bent Speaker and MPs who simply refuse point blank to accept what people voted for.
I'm genuinely starting to believe Farage will end up in Number 10.
I just cannot envisage how hand-waving about technological solutions, right now, can achieve that in advance.
Wait till they have to pay for their cataract operation under PM Nige.
Maybe you can find some convention then to stop him reaching Number 10? Order the Queen via Bercow to appoint Grieve as Dear Leader for a life term?
Will @Peter_the_Punter introduce Rory with a song and dance routine from "Cabaret" ?
Boris only prefers No Deal to further extension or revoke
My prediction for 'unlikely but most likely' is that he ratifies the May Deal - with some cosmetic changes so it can be branded the Johnson Deal - at some point in 2020.
The only way I can see No Deal in 2019 is if he calls a GE, runs on that as a commitment, and wins it outright. I don't think he will call that election - and even if he did I think he would lose to Labour.
Processes matter more than outcomes.
We have survived long as a country, because we've recognised that.
Hunt and co don't agree they'd do very well in that scenario, and I believe them, but even if he is right he has no plan if the EU do not renegotiate to avoid a GE.
But there's fire in my belly now that I haven't had since June 2016.
Considering an outcome so pure, good, and holy that it permits any means necessary to achieve it is the perspective of a fanatic.
Monday morning office meeting vs Cabaret !
But, no, smashing the Palladium like Freddie Starr did in 71 or thereabouts with his Jagger impression and then his wig fell off in the middle of it - I'd just marginally rather do that.
Incredible.
I don;t want to talk about it.
Do ya think Im sexy (not so much)
But that will be a short premiership.
Best male face in whole of human history? Paul Newman circa 1963. Not improvable.
https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1138489048304095232
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/jun/11/tory-leadership-campaigns-hancock-claims-early-commons-brexit-vote-could-lead-to-eu-offering-backstop-concessions-live-news
That's what he called No Deal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBZsIvUBOMk&app=desktop
The headline is written
#TeamRory
That YouGov polling on proroguing Parliament was quite the eye opener.
I haven't left the Tory Party, it has l left me.
In all seriousness, his looks are a bit distracting. Is it a condition or is he just really really scrawny? He's also deathly pale, which isn't a great combination.
It really shouldn't matter, yet it does.
Mark Harper undoubtedly looks the most like a stock photo model of 'middle aged businessman' though.
https://twitter.com/montie/status/1138490904925429760
That said Ken Clarke's backing him and that's good enough for me.
https://twitter.com/canary_burgundy/status/1132200933419569152
Rory, eat more!
Very impressed. My wife normally ignores these hustings but she has come alive and said he is brilliant
Who is more likely to bring enough votes in and beat Corbyn?
I'm not so sure the answer is actually Boris.
Hmmmm.
https://twitter.com/HackBlackburn/status/1138491819090698242
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-s-leadership-campaign-gains-momentum-with-backing-of-senior-mp-kit-malthouse-a4164466.html
Starting to feel as if he could come from nowhere to win it.
EDIT: Hadn't read last few posts when I posted!
And he didn't look anything like as odd as I thought he might. Could genuinely see the Willem Defoe likeness today.
But it's about content and that was really something.
Leanness is no longer common, but the other day I saw a family of four who were lean, apparently fit, and non-smokers too.