> This is a ridiculous argument and clearly could only ever have been made by a Remainer.
>
> The reason that voters in Leave seats felt comfortable voting for Labour in 2017 is because Corbyn effectively neutralised Brexit as an issue by promising explicitely to respect the result of the 2016 referendum and that the UK would leave the EU. So did the large majority of Labour MPs in their personal election literature.
>
> As such voters could vote on issues orher than Brexit and so support Labour or Conservative believing they would still support us leaving.
>
> The idea that Labour csn simply stop worrying about their Leave voting constituencies is farcical. As plenty of Labour MPs in those constituencies know full well.
It's important to distinguish between Leave-voting constituencies and Labour voters in Leave-voting constituencies. Take Broxtowe, which I know well. It voted to Leave in a similar proportion to the country as a whole, despite every significant political figure in the constituency being strongly pro-Remain. But the Leave vote in the seat is overwhelmingly in the villagey hinterlands, which is exactly where the Tory strength is. A Remain message will be welcomed by most people considering voting Labour in Broxtowe.
There is polling data on this that showed it's a general pattern. Clearly there is a risk to SOME Labour support, and that has to worry someone in a seat like Wigan, but it's too simplistic to argue that how the seat as a whole thinks tells us what the potential Labour voters think.
Plus, Lab only win a seat like Broxtowe if the LibDem and Green vote is squeezed (as it is such a tight seat). Labour wont do that if they are not seen as Remain in next GE.
> @stodge said: > There is also the nuance of saying what you've done as distinct from saying what you will do but I struggle to see how retrospectively endorsing the candidate of another Party is excusable.
Unless you restrict party membership only to those who have never in the past expressed support for another party, then you cannot apply rules about retrospectively expressing support for other parties.
Suppose one of the Liberal Democrat MPs were to decide to defect from the Liberal Democrats to Labour. Would they be expelled for stating that they had voted Lib Dem in the European elections? If not, how could you expel a different Labour member for saying the same?
If a member makes a statement about future actions then that would qualify as campaigning against the Party, and therefore an expulsion offence.
I would have thought there's nothing wrong with having a large number of candidates in the first round, provided the majority of them decide to drop out before the second ballot if they've got less than about 25 or 30 votes and don't have any realistic chance of progressing.
Corbyn being Brexit's Bessy Mate is killing Labour. I can only assume that he is staking all on being PM - and then needing to have a hand truly free of any ongoing EU restrictions to implement a far grander scheme of Socialism than has been admitted to date. It's a shit-or-bust strategy.
> @TGOHF said: > > @AndyJS said: > > When did it become okay for political journalists and news presenters to spend almost as much time expressing their own opinions as reporting on the facts? I must be old-fashioned to think they should mainly stick to factual reporting. > > 24 hr news channels needed filler. > > But now even on the 10 o'clock news you get 10 seconds of the PM and 5 minutes of the anchor chatting with Laura and Katya.... > > Terrible fayre.
> @AndyJS said: > I would have thought there's nothing wrong with having a large number of candidates in the first round, provided the majority of them decide to drop out before the second ballot if they've got less than about 25 or 30 votes and don't have any realistic chance of progressing.
Half of them are working for Gove - starves Boris of publicity
> @NickPalmer said: > > @Richard_Tyndall said: > > On topic. > > > > This is a ridiculous argument and clearly could only ever have been made by a Remainer. > > > > The reason that voters in Leave seats felt comfortable voting for Labour in 2017 is because Corbyn effectively neutralised Brexit as an issue by promising explicitely to respect the result of the 2016 referendum and that the UK would leave the EU. So did the large majority of Labour MPs in their personal election literature. > > > > As such voters could vote on issues orher than Brexit and so support Labour or Conservative believing they would still support us leaving. > > > > The idea that Labour csn simply stop worrying about their Leave voting constituencies is farcical. As plenty of Labour MPs in those constituencies know full well. > > It's important to distinguish between Leave-voting constituencies and Labour voters in Leave-voting constituencies. Take Broxtowe, which I know well. It voted to Leave in a similar proportion to the country as a whole, despite every significant political figure in the constituency being strongly pro-Remain. But the Leave vote in the seat is overwhelmingly in the villagey hinterlands, which is exactly where the Tory strength is. A Remain message will be welcomed by most people considering voting Labour in Broxtowe. > > There is polling data on this that showed it's a general pattern. Clearly there is a risk to SOME Labour support, and that has to worry someone in a seat like Wigan, but it's too simplistic to argue that how the seat as a whole thinks tells us what the potential Labour voters think.
Exactly so. And people such as Nandy and De Piero just witter on about how Labour risks losing leave voters without making a single positive suggestion as to what should be done about it. They know as well as the rest of us that there are three options - no deal, May's deal and remain, they have to choose one of them.
> @Mysticrose said: > > @Pulpstar said: > > This case is going to make Boris look an absolute martyr. Nothing could be better for him ! > > Hmmm I'm not so sure about that. The Leave campaign is already on thin ice and a substantial number of people, of all persuasions, are 'fed up' of Brexit.
I do not support Boris but this case against him is only going to enrage his supporters and increase the polarisation between leave and remain.
I do not see anything sensible in this and on a wider point how many other prominent politicians could be summoned to the courts for alleged lies
And not only politicians, what about all the media journalists and presenters who are far from innocent in these matters
> @Peter_the_Punter said: > > @TGOHF said: > > > @AndyJS said: > > > When did it become okay for political journalists and news presenters to spend almost as much time expressing their own opinions as reporting on the facts? I must be old-fashioned to think they should mainly stick to factual reporting. > > > > 24 hr news channels needed filler. > > > > But now even on the 10 o'clock news you get 10 seconds of the PM and 5 minutes of the anchor chatting with Laura and Katya.... > > > > Terrible fayre. > > Try Channel4 News - vastly superior.
Can't take it seriously after the Cathy Newman vs Jordan Peterson interview. And John Snow is too left wing.
> Boris is certainly vulnerable in one specific area. As > was pointed out at the time we do not send £350 > million a week to the EU. To get that figure they include > the rebate. But in spite of its name the rebate is never sent.
And as I pointed out earlier, the national accounts call the £350m a "debit", and the EU's online description of the budget process calls the rebate a "reimbursement".
Whatever happens in reality, the plain English meaning of those terms supports Boris's case that the Vote Leave phrasing was reasonable too. Money which is debited, then reimbursed, is "sent".
> @RobD said: > > @Pulpstar said: > > @StuartDickson I see you have the great white hope of Scottish Labour as your new profile picture. > > I thought that was a picture of Stuart. Why people have profile pics of those they vehemently disagree with is beyond me.
I don’t know if I vehemently disagree with him as I, in common with the rest of the planet, am unaware what he stands for.
A bit telling that you didn’t recognise the great man. Great as in great gift to my party.
(Incidentally, I’m very handsome and am a bit upset that you thought I looked like that!)
I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation
Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price
No
Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park
No
Me - And why not
The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood
Me - But you are a DIY store
If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you
I hereby announce my candidacy for Leader of the Conservative Party. My pitch is that despite not being an MP or a supporter and being opposed to many conservative values, I am not the worst candidate on offer. Not being from any faction, I am uniquely placed to unite the party and move it towards the common ground of politics.
> @StuartDickson said: > > @RobD said: > > > @Pulpstar said: > > > @StuartDickson I see you have the great white hope of Scottish Labour as your new profile picture. > > > > I thought that was a picture of Stuart. Why people have profile pics of those they vehemently disagree with is beyond me. > > I don’t know if I vehemently disagree with him as I, in common with the rest of the planet, am unaware what he stands for. > > A bit telling that you didn’t recognise the great man. Great as in great gift to my party. > > (Incidentally, I’m very handsome and am a bit upset that you thought I looked like that!)
A pile of cold sick that my cat vomited up this morning would like to announce it's candidacy for Leader of the Conservative Party.
Blue to it's core and repugnant to all that see it, it offers a refreshing change from the wooly one nation Conservatism on offer these past nine years.
> @Jonathan said: > I hereby announce my candidacy for Leader of the Conservative Party. My pitch is that despite not being an MP or a supporter and being opposed to many conservative values, I am not the worst candidate on offer. Not being from any faction, I am uniquely placed to unite the party and move it towards the common ground of politics.
I am actually before you in the queue as I am a member and voted conservative in the EU election so I cannot be disenfranchised. Indeed I believe I could beat several of these candidates with my eyes shut
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > OT > > I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation > > Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price > > No > > Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park > > No > > Me - And why not > > The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood > > Me - But you are a DIY store > > If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you > > The wood in question was 30mm wide > > How times change and such poor customer care
I have had similar with car recovery. I was told they could not reverse on to my drive and roll the car of the back on to the drive, because they were not insured whilst on my drive. They could only deposit my car on the road.
> @ralphmalph said: > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > OT > > > > I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation > > > > Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price > > > > No > > > > Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park > > > > No > > > > Me - And why not > > > > The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood > > > > Me - But you are a DIY store > > > > If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you > > > > The wood in question was 30mm wide > > > > How times change and such poor customer care > > I have had similar with car recovery. I was told they could not reverse on to my drive and roll the car of the back on to the drive, because they were not insured whilst on my drive. They could only deposit my car on the road.
Who thinks up this nonsense. The EU have a lot to answer for
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @Jonathan said: > > I hereby announce my candidacy for Leader of the Conservative Party. My pitch is that despite not being an MP or a supporter and being opposed to many conservative values, I am not the worst candidate on offer. Not being from any faction, I am uniquely placed to unite the party and move it towards the common ground of politics. > > I am actually before you in the queue as I am a member and voted conservative in the EU election so I cannot be disenfranchised. Indeed I believe I could beat several of these candidates with my eyes shut
> @GIN1138 said: > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > @Jonathan said: > > > I hereby announce my candidacy for Leader of the Conservative Party. My pitch is that despite not being an MP or a supporter and being opposed to many conservative values, I am not the worst candidate on offer. Not being from any faction, I am uniquely placed to unite the party and move it towards the common ground of politics. > > > > I am actually before you in the queue as I am a member and voted conservative in the EU election so I cannot be disenfranchised. Indeed I believe I could beat several of these candidates with my eyes shut > > #BigG4PM2019
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @Jonathan said: > > I hereby announce my candidacy for Leader of the Conservative Party. My pitch is that despite not being an MP or a supporter and being opposed to many conservative values, I am not the worst candidate on offer. Not being from any faction, I am uniquely placed to unite the party and move it towards the common ground of politics. > > I am actually before you in the queue as I am a member and voted conservative in the EU election so I cannot be disenfranchised. Indeed I believe I could beat several of these candidates with my eyes shut
If you voted Conservative in the EU elections you are clearly not a true Conservative and hereby relegated to ChangeUK you wooly Liberal.
> @stodge said: > Afternoon all > > (snip) > > The other aspect remains the extent to which BXP is going to influence the outcome - given they are "here to stay", the question becomes where they will position themselves on the domestic issues. Will Farage be able to hold his disparate band together when it comes to talking about issues like housing, social care, the economy, transport, agriculture and the like?
No.
So we’ll have three parties ripping themselves apart in front of the public.
A party led by (Lord, give me strength) Jo Swinson. Who?
Or the good ole SNP.
Mmmm... I wonder who the voters will plump for? ‘Tis a tricky one.
> @Jonathan said: > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > @Jonathan said: > > > I hereby announce my candidacy for Leader of the Conservative Party. My pitch is that despite not being an MP or a supporter and being opposed to many conservative values, I am not the worst candidate on offer. Not being from any faction, I am uniquely placed to unite the party and move it towards the common ground of politics. > > > > I am actually before you in the queue as I am a member and voted conservative in the EU election so I cannot be disenfranchised. Indeed I believe I could beat several of these candidates with my eyes shut > > If you voted Conservative in the EU elections you are clearly not a true Conservative and hereby relegated to ChangeUK you wooly Liberal.
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > OT > > I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation > > Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price > > No > > Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park > > No > > Me - And why not > > The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood > > Me - But you are a DIY store > > If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you > > The wood in question was 30mm wide > > How times change and such poor customer care
It should be fairly obvious but there is no EU law stopping business cutting wood or lending saws. If B&Q choose not to do so, and not to insure their employees, that is purely a commercial decision, someone the size of B&Q can easily source and pay for such insurance if they so desire.
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @Jonathan said: > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > @Jonathan said: > > > > I hereby announce my candidacy for Leader of the Conservative Party. My pitch is that despite not being an MP or a supporter and being opposed to many conservative values, I am not the worst candidate on offer. Not being from any faction, I am uniquely placed to unite the party and move it towards the common ground of politics. > > > > > > I am actually before you in the queue as I am a member and voted conservative in the EU election so I cannot be disenfranchised. Indeed I believe I could beat several of these candidates with my eyes shut > > > > If you voted Conservative in the EU elections you are clearly not a true Conservative and hereby relegated to ChangeUK you wooly Liberal. > > I am a true conservative, I am not a UKIPPER
How quaint! I think your party is moving on. Very soon you may be to today's Tories what Abraham Lincoln is to Trump's Republicans.
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > OT > > I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation > > Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price > > No > > Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park > > No > > Me - And why not > > The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood > > Me - But you are a DIY store > > If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you > > The wood in question was 30mm wide > > How times change and such poor customer care
I think you will find that H&S at work laws are UK, not the EU.
But this is typical of the mentality that led to Leave.
> @Jonathan said: > A pile of cold sick that my cat vomited up this morning would like to announce it's candidacy for Leader of the Conservative Party. > > Blue to it's core and repugnant to all that see it, it offers a refreshing change from the wooly one nation Conservatism on offer these past nine years. > >
Let's face it - if the Night King was real and could raise Maggie from the dead, she would be a better candidate than any of them. She would be the wight candidate. In tune with the party membership. Landslide victory.
> @anothernick said: > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > OT > > > > I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation > > > > Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price > > > > No > > > > Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park > > > > No > > > > Me - And why not > > > > The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood > > > > Me - But you are a DIY store > > > > If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you > > > > The wood in question was 30mm wide > > > > How times change and such poor customer care > > I think you will find that H&S at work laws are UK, not the EU. > > But this is typical of the mentality that led to Leave.
The employee quoted EU health and safety law to me
Unless you restrict party membership only to those who have never in the past expressed support for another party, then you cannot apply rules about retrospectively expressing support for other parties.
Suppose one of the Liberal Democrat MPs were to decide to defect from the Liberal Democrats to Labour. Would they be expelled for stating that they had voted Lib Dem in the European elections? If not, how could you expel a different Labour member for saying the same?
If a member makes a statement about future actions then that would qualify as campaigning against the Party, and therefore an expulsion offence.
I think you've misunderstood what I was saying. I was trying to see if there was a nuance between the Campbell and the Heseltine situations.
Is there a difference between "I will vote for another Party" and "I have voted for another Party". I'll be honest and say no, both positions are incompatible with membership of a Party if you are publicly voting against a candidate from your Party.
As I explained in my previous, when you go public, you cross the line. Had Campbell and Heseltine voted LD and said nothing about it, nobody would have batted an eyelid as nobody would have known. It's a secret ballot just as a Conservative MP can publicly endorse Raab or Johnson but vote for Hunt or Gove.
If I decided to leave the LDs and join the Labour or Conservative parties, would I have to confess to having been a LD member or activist? I'm not obliged to but, as my late Mum would say, "honesty is the best policy". If, on that basis, a Party refused to have me as a member, that wouldn't stop me voting for them or even supporting them financially.
> > I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation
> >
> > Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price
> >
> > No
> >
> > Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park
> >
> > No
> >
> > Me - And why not
> >
> > The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood
> >
> > Me - But you are a DIY store
> >
> > If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you
> >
> > The wood in question was 30mm wide
> >
> > How times change and such poor customer care
>
> I have had similar with car recovery. I was told they could not reverse on to my drive and roll the car of the back on to the drive, because they were not insured whilst on my drive. They could only deposit my car on the road.
Who thinks up this nonsense. The EU have a lot to answer for
Just an excuse they hide behind as they don't want to do it. Then some idiots moan and whinge about the EU.
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: . > > Who thinks up this nonsense. The EU have a lot to answer for
They really don't in this instance. The culprit if there is one is a culture of sue at the drop of a hat and make big bucks off the liability insurers - a culture which started in the USA to the extent it is not indigenous. UK courts quietly abolishing the doctrine of volenti non fit injuria (meaning if you decide to saw wood you accept the risk involved) also hasn't helped.
> @noneoftheabove said: > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > OT > > > > I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation > > > > Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price > > > > No > > > > Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park > > > > No > > > > Me - And why not > > > > The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood > > > > Me - But you are a DIY store > > > > If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you > > > > The wood in question was 30mm wide > > > > How times change and such poor customer care > > It should be fairly obvious but there is no EU law stopping business cutting wood or lending saws. If B&Q choose not to do so, and not to insure their employees, that is purely a commercial decision, someone the size of B&Q can easily source and pay for such insurance if they so desire.
You may well be right. The employee blamed EU law but more likely B & Q are trying to save money at the expense of good customer care. Also it amazes me that for a large organisation they still do not accept 'contactless' payments
Even Barr's "summary" of the report made that clear, and yet there are still people (mostly idiots) who think that Trump is not a crook. The only thing protecting Trump is the Presidency, out of office it's a different ball game.
Bozo and the rest will try to cloud the waters with the forecasts from the Treasury .
There is a key difference though .
A forecast is not a fact . Bozo clearly lied because he knew the facts and chose to lie about them .
I expect the case will get thrown out by the Crown Court , and I’m uncomfortable with this going to court because it could open up a Pandora’s Box of problems .
If the Commons wants to legislate about standards in public life then I’d be fine with that but I doubt the courts will want to go anywhere near this .
> > > > I hereby announce my candidacy for Leader of the Conservative Party. My pitch is that despite not being an MP or a supporter and being opposed to many conservative values, I am not the worst candidate on offer. Not being from any faction, I am uniquely placed to unite the party and move it towards the common ground of politics.
> > >
> > > I am actually before you in the queue as I am a member and voted conservative in the EU election so I cannot be disenfranchised. Indeed I believe I could beat several of these candidates with my eyes shut
> >
> > If you voted Conservative in the EU elections you are clearly not a true Conservative and hereby relegated to ChangeUK you wooly Liberal.
>
> I am a true conservative, I am not a UKIPPER
How quaint! I think your party is moving on. Very soon you may be to today's Tories what Abraham Lincoln is to Trump's Republicans.
Can you imagine Trump doing the Gettysburg address? "...We have to make this country great again. So this nation, under Trump, can be born again. And kick the rest of the world’s ass. So that government of ordinary hard-working folks, by The Donald, for ordinary, hard-working folks, shall not go down the toilet." See here
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @anothernick said: > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > OT > > > > > > I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation > > > > > > Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price > > > > > > No > > > > > > Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park > > > > > > No > > > > > > Me - And why not > > > > > > The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood > > > > > > Me - But you are a DIY store > > > > > > If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you > > > > > > The wood in question was 30mm wide > > > > > > How times change and such poor customer care > > > > I think you will find that H&S at work laws are UK, not the EU. > > > > But this is typical of the mentality that led to Leave. > > The employee quoted EU health and safety law to me
Weird most DIY stores I've been to have a timber cutting service (though it would only be done by qualified people I imagine).
While we are on the sad state of corporate stores, I was sorry to see last week that the meat counter at my favourite Tesco (Airfield Way, Hx) is now only open Weds-Sat... even worse, today I found out the two old ladies who used to run it have been ‘retired’ and some youngish bloke who was pushing the big containers about seems to have the job whenever he sees a queue. 😔
Utterly boring nerdy story, I apologise for sharing
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > OT > > I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation > > Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price > > No > > Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park > > No > > Me - And why not > > The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood > > Me - But you are a DIY store > > If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you > > The wood in question was 30mm wide > > How times change and such poor customer care
I just checked and there are 10 B&Q stores within 30 miles of my location which offer a wood cutting service. So either your store is a rare one that does not have the facility to cut wood (if they don't have the equipment, they can't offer the service) or the assistant was just being lazy.
“If we had confidence that the president had not committed a crime, we would have said so,” he said. He added, citing a DOJ policy: “Charging the president with a crime was therefore not an option we could consider.”
> @nico67 said: > Bozo and the rest will try to cloud the waters with the forecasts from the Treasury . > > There is a key difference though . > > A forecast is not a fact . Bozo clearly lied because he knew the facts and chose to lie about them . > > I expect the case will get thrown out by the Crown Court , and I’m uncomfortable with this going to court because it could open up a Pandora’s Box of problems . > > If the Commons wants to legislate about standards in public life then I’d be fine with that but I doubt the courts will want to go anywhere near this .
I agree with your third paragraph. If found guilty the cases could be never ending. Just more money for the lawyers
> @nico67 said: > Bozo and the rest will try to cloud the waters with the forecasts from the Treasury . > > There is a key difference though . > > A forecast is not a fact . Bozo clearly lied because he knew the facts and chose to lie about them . > > I expect the case will get thrown out by the Crown Court , and I’m uncomfortable with this going to court because it could open up a Pandora’s Box of problems . > > If the Commons wants to legislate about standards in public life then I’d be fine with that but I doubt the courts will want to go anywhere near this .
Am I correct that a Magistrate can basically do what they like (send it up to a Crown Court or drop it) with no basic understanding of the law? - they are lay people, and may (or may not) get/ignore advice from a legally qualified adviser. So the fact that the Magistrate is pushing up to the CC gives no indication of the merit of the case - the legally qualified judge in the CC will do so after hearing the merits and decide whether to allow it to proceed?
On the subject of the LD leadership election, the London Hustings (hopefully only the first) are happening on Friday evening which seems odd as nominations don't close until June 7th so someone might be a candidate who doesn't appear at the London Hustings and vice versa.
I can't make that but will try to get to one of the other events being organised.
Timetable suggests a new leader will be in place by July 23rd which is pretty near the point the House is due to rise for summer recess and I suspect that's where the Conservatives will want to be in terms of having chosen their new leader as well or will they have only got to the last two?
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @noneoftheabove said: It should be fairly obvious but there is no EU law stopping business cutting wood or lending saws. If B&Q choose not to do so, and not to insure their employees, that is purely a commercial decision, someone the size of B&Q can easily source and pay for such insurance if they so desire. > > You may well be right. The employee blamed EU law but more likely B & Q are trying to safe money at the expense of good customer care. Also it amazes me that for a large organisation they still do not accept 'contactless' payments
You'd have to ask an insurance broker, but I would expect that if you went out into the market and asked for liability cover for customers saying weeks in the car park the answer would be, not at any price. And that if you did saw your own arm off B n Q would be heavily fined for not providing a safe system for you to saw wood.
> @nico67 said: > Bozo and the rest will try to cloud the waters with the forecasts from the Treasury . > > There is a key difference though . > > A forecast is not a fact . Bozo clearly lied because he knew the facts and chose to lie about them . > > I expect the case will get thrown out by the Crown Court , and I’m uncomfortable with this going to court because it could open up a Pandora’s Box of problems . > > If the Commons wants to legislate about standards in public life then I’d be fine with that but I doubt the courts will want to go anywhere near this .
But it wasn't a lie that the gross contributions were 350mn.
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @noneoftheabove said: > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > OT > > > > > > I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation > > > > > > Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price > > > > > > No > > > > > > Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park > > > > > > No > > > > > > Me - And why not > > > > > > The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood > > > > > > Me - But you are a DIY store > > > > > > If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you > > > > > > The wood in question was 30mm wide > > > > > > How times change and such poor customer care > > > > It should be fairly obvious but there is no EU law stopping business cutting wood or lending saws. If B&Q choose not to do so, and not to insure their employees, that is purely a commercial decision, someone the size of B&Q can easily source and pay for such insurance if they so desire. > > You may well be right. The employee blamed EU law but more likely B & Q are trying to safe money at the expense of good customer care. Also it amazes me that for a large organisation they still do not accept 'contactless' payments
Of course health and safety laws may play a part in B&Q making those decisions as they are scared of the risk of getting it wrong, so in that sense it is related but there will be thousands of companies across the EU who train staff well and have the appropriate insurance and t&c to deal with the scenarios above.
The employee may or may not have an understanding of the issues, the cynic in me suggests they might just find customers start empathising with them if they mention the EU rather than getting irate at their poor service.
> @oxfordsimon said: > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > OT > > > > I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation > > > > Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price > > > > No > > > > Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park > > > > No > > > > Me - And why not > > > > The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood > > > > Me - But you are a DIY store > > > > If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you > > > > The wood in question was 30mm wide > > > > How times change and such poor customer care > > I just checked and there are 10 B&Q stores within 30 miles of my location which offer a wood cutting service. So either your store is a rare one that does not have the facility to cut wood (if they don't have the equipment, they can't offer the service) or the assistant was just being lazy. > > I suspect the latter and made up an excuse
> @isam said: > While we are on the sad state of corporate stores, I was sorry to see last week that the meat counter at my favourite Tesco (Airfield Way, Hx) is now only open Weds-Sat... even worse, today I found out the two old ladies who used to run it have been ‘retired’ and some youngish bloke who was pushing the big containers about seems to have the job whenever he sees a queue. 😔 > > Utterly boring nerdy story, I apologise for sharing
Not at all, I've been mourning the closure entirely of my Tesco's fish counter. Really good value fish and it's gone for good!
There's a great fishmonger down the road, but the prices aren't even close for lots of stuff.
> > > I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation
> > >
> > > Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price
> > >
> > > No
> > >
> > > Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park
> > >
> > > No
> > >
> > > Me - And why not
> > >
> > > The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood
> > >
> > > Me - But you are a DIY store
> > >
> > > If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you
> > >
> > > The wood in question was 30mm wide
> > >
> > > How times change and such poor customer care
> >
> > I think you will find that H&S at work laws are UK, not the EU.
> >
> > But this is typical of the mentality that led to Leave.
>
> The employee quoted EU health and safety law to me
Weird most DIY stores I've been to have a timber cutting service (though it would only be done by qualified people I imagine).
There is a simple solution. Pick up a saw from their rack, cut the wood without asking permission, buy the wood and the saw. I have done this several times. You can always use a saw, and they only cost £8. Alternatively take a saw with you.
> @OblitusSumMe said: > > @stodge said: > > There is also the nuance of saying what you've done as distinct from saying what you will do but I struggle to see how retrospectively endorsing the candidate of another Party is excusable. > > Unless you restrict party membership only to those who have never in the past expressed support for another party, then you cannot apply rules about retrospectively expressing support for other parties. > > Suppose one of the Liberal Democrat MPs were to decide to defect from the Liberal Democrats to Labour. Would they be expelled for stating that they had voted Lib Dem in the European elections? If not, how could you expel a different Labour member for saying the same? > > If a member makes a statement about future actions then that would qualify as campaigning against the Party, and therefore an expulsion offence.
There is a distinction between an applicant switching to the party (where loyalty would be expected from then on) and an existing member breaking the rules.
In your example the Liberal Democrat was under no expectation to vote Labour at the elections but would next time. Heseltine and Campbell were party members at the election.
> @_Anazina_ said: > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > @anothernick said: > > > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > > OT > > > > > > > > > > I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation > > > > > > > > > > Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price > > > > > > > > > > No > > > > > > > > > > Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park > > > > > > > > > > No > > > > > > > > > > Me - And why not > > > > > > > > > > The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood > > > > > > > > > > Me - But you are a DIY store > > > > > > > > > > If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you > > > > > > > > > > The wood in question was 30mm wide > > > > > > > > > > How times change and such poor customer care > > > > > > > > I think you will find that H&S at work laws are UK, not the EU. > > > > > > > > But this is typical of the mentality that led to Leave. > > > > > > The employee quoted EU health and safety law to me > > > > Weird most DIY stores I've been to have a timber cutting service (though it would only be done by qualified people I imagine). > > There is a simple solution. Pick up a saw from their rack, cut the wood without asking permission, buy the wood and the saw. I have done this several times. You can always use a saw, and they only cost £8. Alternatively take a saw with you.
To be fair that is logic and in this case I had to return to town this afternoon and took a saw with me and sorted it. I will know in the future
> @TGOHF said: > > @williamglenn said: > > Is Sajid Javid getting paid by the SNP to be so tone deaf? > > Scotland is falling apart - education, crime , poverty, university admissions. > > Nicola is throwing the same squirrel over and over - why do the weak minded keep ignoring her falling level of support ? > >
That would be true if the conservatives, and even more so, labour had not collapsed over their EU stance
> @TGOHF said: > > @williamglenn said: > > Is Sajid Javid getting paid by the SNP to be so tone deaf? > > Scotland is falling apart - education, crime , poverty, university admissions. > > Nicola is throwing the same squirrel over and over - why do the weak minded keep ignoring her falling level of support ? > >
> @williamglenn said: > > @TGOHF said: > > > @williamglenn said: > > > Is Sajid Javid getting paid by the SNP to be so tone deaf? > > > > Scotland is falling apart - education, crime , poverty, university admissions. > > > > Nicola is throwing the same squirrel over and over - why do the weak minded keep ignoring her falling level of support ? > > > > > > It’s the UK that’s falling apart.
Former FM and the "father of losing referendums" pending trial for sex offences....
> @RobD said: > > @nico67 said: > > Bozo and the rest will try to cloud the waters with the forecasts from the Treasury . > > > > There is a key difference though . > > > > A forecast is not a fact . Bozo clearly lied because he knew the facts and chose to lie about them . > > > > I expect the case will get thrown out by the Crown Court , and I’m uncomfortable with this going to court because it could open up a Pandora’s Box of problems . > > > > If the Commons wants to legislate about standards in public life then I’d be fine with that but I doubt the courts will want to go anywhere near this . > > But it wasn't a lie that the gross contributions were 350mn.
It was a lie . The 350 million includes the rebate . That money never leaves the country. Johnson didn’t clarify it was a gross amount each time he brought the money up on the campaign . And because he had used the proper figure at different times he opens himself up to accusations he knew what the facts were but chose to lie at different times .
By all means defend the problem with this going to court , as I think it’s not a good move however it’s clear Johnson lied.
> Q. If a member were to vote tactically for a non-Conservative candidate in order, say, to be sure to keep Mr Corbyn out of government, would one automatically be expelled from the Party?
A. As long as a member does not publicly call on people to vote for another Party it is unlikely we would take action from CCHQ. <
Taken from actual correspondence.
It’s campaigning before the vote wot does it. They can’t do you for merely remarking post hoc that you dunnit. Free the Campbell One. Oh, wait. He’s Labour. Or maybe not.
> @nico67 said: > > @RobD said: > > > @nico67 said: > > > Bozo and the rest will try to cloud the waters with the forecasts from the Treasury . > > > > > > There is a key difference though . > > > > > > A forecast is not a fact . Bozo clearly lied because he knew the facts and chose to lie about them . > > > > > > I expect the case will get thrown out by the Crown Court , and I’m uncomfortable with this going to court because it could open up a Pandora’s Box of problems . > > > > > > If the Commons wants to legislate about standards in public life then I’d be fine with that but I doubt the courts will want to go anywhere near this . > > > > But it wasn't a lie that the gross contributions were 350mn. > > It was a lie . The 350 million includes the rebate . That money never leaves the country. Johnson didn’t clarify it was a gross amount each time he brought the money up on the campaign . And because he had used the proper figure at different times he opens himself up to accusations he knew what the facts were but chose to lie at different times . > > By all means defend the problem with this going to court , as I think it’s not a good move however it’s clear Johnson lied.
Its not a lie. Every time someone rebutted that it was a gross figure that was accepted.
There is no obligation to only quote net numbers. There are valid reasons to use gross ones and gross numbers are commonly quoted in politics.
> > > Bozo and the rest will try to cloud the waters with the forecasts from the Treasury .
> > >
> > > There is a key difference though .
> > >
> > > A forecast is not a fact . Bozo clearly lied because he knew the facts and chose to lie about them .
> > >
> > > I expect the case will get thrown out by the Crown Court , and I’m uncomfortable with this going to court because it could open up a Pandora’s Box of problems .
> > >
> > > If the Commons wants to legislate about standards in public life then I’d be fine with that but I doubt the courts will want to go anywhere near this .
> >
> > But it wasn't a lie that the gross contributions were 350mn.
>
> It was a lie . The 350 million includes the rebate . That money never leaves the country. Johnson didn’t clarify it was a gross amount each time he brought the money up on the campaign . And because he had used the proper figure at different times he opens himself up to accusations he knew what the facts were but chose to lie at different times .
>
> By all means defend the problem with this going to court , as I think it’s not a good move however it’s clear Johnson lied.
Its not a lie. Every time someone rebutted that it was a gross figure that was accepted.
There is no obligation to only quote net numbers. There are valid reasons to use gross ones and gross numbers are commonly quoted in politics.
If a football team sold their best player for 90m, spent 100m on 4 players who then had bad seasons, I think it would be fair to say they’d spent 100m badly, even though the could say they’d only spent 10m net
> @nico67 said: > > @RobD said: > > > @nico67 said: > > > Bozo and the rest will try to cloud the waters with the forecasts from the Treasury . > > > > > > There is a key difference though . > > > > > > A forecast is not a fact . Bozo clearly lied because he knew the facts and chose to lie about them . > > > > > > I expect the case will get thrown out by the Crown Court , and I’m uncomfortable with this going to court because it could open up a Pandora’s Box of problems . > > > > > > If the Commons wants to legislate about standards in public life then I’d be fine with that but I doubt the courts will want to go anywhere near this . > > > > But it wasn't a lie that the gross contributions were 350mn. > > It was a lie . The 350 million includes the rebate . That money never leaves the country. Johnson didn’t clarify it was a gross amount each time he brought the money up on the campaign . And because he had used the proper figure at different times he opens himself up to accusations he knew what the facts were but chose to lie at different times . > > By all means defend the problem with this going to court , as I think it’s not a good move however it’s clear Johnson lied.
The number is right there in the government's own accounts for 2016:
I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation
Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price
No
Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park
No
Me - And why not
The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood
Me - But you are a DIY store
If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you
The wood in question was 30mm wide
How times change and such poor customer care
Wouldn't it have been simpler to buy a little saw there and then? As opposed to giving the floor staff some aggro?
Incidentally, if you want wood, best to go to one of the trade shops like Screwfix if you have one handy. You won't get it VAT-off cos your not trade, but it's kept in better conditions: B&Q wood is usually hockey-stick warped. Now, if you're using one of the larger B&Q stores they do cut your wood for you, but best to check beforehand on t'internet.
> @nico67 said: > > @RobD said: > > > @nico67 said: > > > Bozo and the rest will try to cloud the waters with the forecasts from the Treasury . > > > > > > There is a key difference though . > > > > > > A forecast is not a fact . Bozo clearly lied because he knew the facts and chose to lie about them . > > > > > > I expect the case will get thrown out by the Crown Court , and I’m uncomfortable with this going to court because it could open up a Pandora’s Box of problems . > > > > > > If the Commons wants to legislate about standards in public life then I’d be fine with that but I doubt the courts will want to go anywhere near this . > > > > But it wasn't a lie that the gross contributions were 350mn. > > It was a lie . The 350 million includes the rebate . That money never leaves the country. Johnson didn’t clarify it was a gross amount each time he brought the money up on the campaign . And because he had used the proper figure at different times he opens himself up to accusations he knew what the facts were but chose to lie at different times . > > By all means defend the problem with this going to court , as I think it’s not a good move however it’s clear Johnson lied.
He's a politician - that's what they do. I can't think of one who didn't/ doesn't
Those seeking to undermine Boris should focus on his childish hiding in Afghanistan. Instead, they've gone on stupid territory which is bad for them whether they win (authoritarian and curtailing free speech not to mention the martyrdom of Boris) or lose (failure is never a good look and it would give the appearance of vindicating Boris).
> @Philip_Thompson said: > If Boris had said UK contributions were £700 million per week that would be a lie. > > Quoting gross figures is spin. > > Spin is not illegal. It isn't for courts to determine spin.
Remainers still not getting it. I seem to recall the remain crowd spending the referendum campaign shouting "it's not 350m, its more like 240m after the rebate!" not realising that to most people that still sounds like far too much money. Focusing on the 350m wasn't a winner then and to pursue it through the courts three years later just confirms what we already know about remainers - they are bad losers.
So to summarise:PB leavers disapprove that Bono is being sued for lying, but approve of the Brexit party sueing somebody for telling the truth. Ok, free speech everybody. Politics in the UK, eh!
> @viewcode said: > OT > > > > I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation > > > > Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price > > > > No > > > > Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park > > > > No > > > > Me - And why not > > > > The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood > > > > Me - But you are a DIY store > > > > If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you > > > > The wood in question was 30mm wide > > > > How times change and such poor customer care > > Wouldn't it have been simpler to buy a little saw there and then? As opposed to giving the floor staff some aggro? > > Incidentally, if you want wood, best to go to one of the trade shops like Screwfix if you have one handy. You won't get it VAT-off cos your not trade, but it's kept in better conditions: B&Q wood is usually hockey-stick warped. Now, if you're using one of the larger B&Q stores they do cut your wood for you, but best to check beforehand on t'internet.
The EU Health and Safety Laws FFS! Was he an international lawyer with a part time job in B&Q, or just a swivel-eyed frothing Leaver?
The "charges" against Boris are ludicrous, and worrying. If we take every politician that fudges the truth into court, then they will ALL be in court, because they all lie and dissemble and fudge. Politics cannot really function without this. When does one person's lie become another's spin?
And any Remainers cheering it on should be doubly worried: it just makes Boris look like the true figurehead of Brexit, it makes him even more important, it will look like yet more Establishment persecution of Leave (following the Electoral Commissions raid on Leave, the day before the vote, which produced no evidence at all). It seriously aids Boris's leadership campaign, AND it seems dodgy.
> Wouldn't it have been simpler to buy a little saw there and then? As opposed to giving the floor staff some aggro?
>
> Incidentally, if you want wood, best to go to one of the trade shops like Screwfix if you have one handy. You won't get it VAT-off cos your not trade, but it's kept in better conditions: B&Q wood is usually hockey-stick warped. Now, if you're using one of the larger B&Q stores they do cut your wood for you, but best to check beforehand on t'internet.
The EU Health and Safety Laws FFS! Was he an international lawyer with a part time job in B&Q, or just a swivel-eyed frothing Leaver?
I noticed that, but I thought it was a digression not worth pursuing. However if you want to read up on it, please go ahead.
> @SandyRentool said: > Glancing through the thread, I see that some PBers have a problem getting wood...
Some of us are obviously getting on a bit. I had to think hard to get what you were on about. My initial thought was that this was a Spanish wood reference. Now there's a thought.
> @SandyRentool said: > I appear to be enjoying a new Vanilla feature whereby none of ScottP's* retweets show up. > > Just me? > > > *Or anyone else's.
I think once they are quoted they get removed (if quoted on the main site), which is a nice feature to avoid big tweets clogging up the thread.
Does the buffoon know When he is Supposed to use capital Letters or is he just an uneducated Moron?
At least "our" version of Trump, Mr Johnson, knows how to speak and write English, even if his ability to lie and carry out the agenda of Putin (perhaps inadvertently) is even more effective than the Trump himself.
> @RobD said: > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > Out here in Hungary I have a man come and bring me all the wood I need whenever I want it, direct to my place. > > Must resist the urge to make naughty jokes.<
++++
I think Alastair was already making that joke, all by himself.
The danger could be for Boris is that his lawyers might have to resort to a defence along the lines of he spouts guff all the time and he isn't a man to be taken seriously !
> @malcolmg said: > > @ralphmalph said: > > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > OT > > > > > > > > I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation > > > > > > > > Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price > > > > > > > > No > > > > > > > > Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park > > > > > > > > No > > > > > > > > Me - And why not > > > > > > > > The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood > > > > > > > > Me - But you are a DIY store > > > > > > > > If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you > > > > > > > > The wood in question was 30mm wide > > > > > > > > How times change and such poor customer care > > > > > > I have had similar with car recovery. I was told they could not reverse on to my drive and roll the car of the back on to the drive, because they were not insured whilst on my drive. They could only deposit my car on the road. > > > > Who thinks up this nonsense. The EU have a lot to answer for > > Just an excuse they hide behind as they don't want to do it. Then some idiots moan and whinge about the EU.
Going to be fascinating to see what they do when they can't blame the EU anymore!
> @Byronic said: > > @RobD said: > > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > Out here in Hungary I have a man come and bring me all the wood I need whenever I want it, direct to my place. > > > > Must resist the urge to make naughty jokes.< > > ++++ > > I think Alastair was already making that joke, all by himself.
On topic I'm not sure I agree with OGH since of course Corbyn neutralised leave/remain in 2017 by successfully appealing to both sides of the divide. A trick which was categorically not repeated in 2019.
I'm not sure if ward by ward analysis of EU elections is available but take Warrington as an example. Warrington is split over 2 constituencies, Warrington North (rock solid safe Labour), and Warrington South (swing constituency in the OP).
In 2019 the Brexit Party won the European Elections by a very considerable margin in Warrington as a whole. I imagine by an even bigger margin in Warrington South.
Comments
Foreign secretary accused of ‘flip-flop’ on Brexit"
(£)
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/jeremy-hunt-s-gaffe-boosts-michael-gove-s-bid-for-tory-leadership-tr7nkwf9v
> There is also the nuance of saying what you've done as distinct from saying what you will do but I struggle to see how retrospectively endorsing the candidate of another Party is excusable.
Unless you restrict party membership only to those who have never in the past expressed support for another party, then you cannot apply rules about retrospectively expressing support for other parties.
Suppose one of the Liberal Democrat MPs were to decide to defect from the Liberal Democrats to Labour. Would they be expelled for stating that they had voted Lib Dem in the European elections? If not, how could you expel a different Labour member for saying the same?
If a member makes a statement about future actions then that would qualify as campaigning against the Party, and therefore an expulsion offence.
> > @AndyJS said:
> > When did it become okay for political journalists and news presenters to spend almost as much time expressing their own opinions as reporting on the facts? I must be old-fashioned to think they should mainly stick to factual reporting.
>
> 24 hr news channels needed filler.
>
> But now even on the 10 o'clock news you get 10 seconds of the PM and 5 minutes of the anchor chatting with Laura and Katya....
>
> Terrible fayre.
Try Channel4 News - vastly superior.
> I would have thought there's nothing wrong with having a large number of candidates in the first round, provided the majority of them decide to drop out before the second ballot if they've got less than about 25 or 30 votes and don't have any realistic chance of progressing.
Half of them are working for Gove - starves Boris of publicity
> > @Richard_Tyndall said:
> > On topic.
> >
> > This is a ridiculous argument and clearly could only ever have been made by a Remainer.
> >
> > The reason that voters in Leave seats felt comfortable voting for Labour in 2017 is because Corbyn effectively neutralised Brexit as an issue by promising explicitely to respect the result of the 2016 referendum and that the UK would leave the EU. So did the large majority of Labour MPs in their personal election literature.
> >
> > As such voters could vote on issues orher than Brexit and so support Labour or Conservative believing they would still support us leaving.
> >
> > The idea that Labour csn simply stop worrying about their Leave voting constituencies is farcical. As plenty of Labour MPs in those constituencies know full well.
>
> It's important to distinguish between Leave-voting constituencies and Labour voters in Leave-voting constituencies. Take Broxtowe, which I know well. It voted to Leave in a similar proportion to the country as a whole, despite every significant political figure in the constituency being strongly pro-Remain. But the Leave vote in the seat is overwhelmingly in the villagey hinterlands, which is exactly where the Tory strength is. A Remain message will be welcomed by most people considering voting Labour in Broxtowe.
>
> There is polling data on this that showed it's a general pattern. Clearly there is a risk to SOME Labour support, and that has to worry someone in a seat like Wigan, but it's too simplistic to argue that how the seat as a whole thinks tells us what the potential Labour voters think.
Exactly so. And people such as Nandy and De Piero just witter on about how Labour risks losing leave voters without making a single positive suggestion as to what should be done about it. They know as well as the rest of us that there are three options - no deal, May's deal and remain, they have to choose one of them.
> > @Pulpstar said:
> > This case is going to make Boris look an absolute martyr. Nothing could be better for him !
>
> Hmmm I'm not so sure about that. The Leave campaign is already on thin ice and a substantial number of people, of all persuasions, are 'fed up' of Brexit.
I do not support Boris but this case against him is only going to enrage his supporters and increase the polarisation between leave and remain.
I do not see anything sensible in this and on a wider point how many other prominent politicians could be summoned to the courts for alleged lies
And not only politicians, what about all the media journalists and presenters who are far from innocent in these matters
Proverbial 'can of worms' with no good outcome
> > @TGOHF said:
> > > @AndyJS said:
> > > When did it become okay for political journalists and news presenters to spend almost as much time expressing their own opinions as reporting on the facts? I must be old-fashioned to think they should mainly stick to factual reporting.
> >
> > 24 hr news channels needed filler.
> >
> > But now even on the 10 o'clock news you get 10 seconds of the PM and 5 minutes of the anchor chatting with Laura and Katya....
> >
> > Terrible fayre.
>
> Try Channel4 News - vastly superior.
Can't take it seriously after the Cathy Newman vs Jordan Peterson interview. And John Snow is too left wing.
> Boris is certainly vulnerable in one specific area. As
> was pointed out at the time we do not send £350
> million a week to the EU. To get that figure they include
> the rebate. But in spite of its name the rebate is never sent.
And as I pointed out earlier, the national accounts call the £350m a "debit", and the EU's online description of the budget process calls the rebate a "reimbursement".
Whatever happens in reality, the plain English meaning of those terms supports Boris's case that the Vote Leave phrasing was reasonable too. Money which is debited, then reimbursed, is "sent".
De Piero probably toast if the Brexit party run against her in Ashfield.
> > @Pulpstar said:
> > @StuartDickson I see you have the great white hope of Scottish Labour as your new profile picture.
>
> I thought that was a picture of Stuart.
I don’t know if I vehemently disagree with him as I, in common with the rest of the planet, am unaware what he stands for.
A bit telling that you didn’t recognise the great man. Great as in great gift to my party.
(Incidentally, I’m very handsome and am a bit upset that you thought I looked like that!)
I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation
Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price
No
Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park
No
Me - And why not
The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood
Me - But you are a DIY store
If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you
The wood in question was 30mm wide
How times change and such poor customer care
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-rE03PGQfA
> > @RobD said:
> > > @Pulpstar said:
> > > @StuartDickson I see you have the great white hope of Scottish Labour as your new profile picture.
> >
> > I thought that was a picture of Stuart.
>
> I don’t know if I vehemently disagree with him as I, in common with the rest of the planet, am unaware what he stands for.
>
> A bit telling that you didn’t recognise the great man. Great as in great gift to my party.
>
> (Incidentally, I’m very handsome and am a bit upset that you thought I looked like that!)
Ridiculous profile pic.
Blue to it's core and repugnant to all that see it, it offers a refreshing change from the wooly one nation Conservatism on offer these past nine years.
> I hereby announce my candidacy for Leader of the Conservative Party. My pitch is that despite not being an MP or a supporter and being opposed to many conservative values, I am not the worst candidate on offer. Not being from any faction, I am uniquely placed to unite the party and move it towards the common ground of politics.
I am actually before you in the queue as I am a member and voted conservative in the EU election so I cannot be disenfranchised. Indeed I believe I could beat several of these candidates with my eyes shut
> OT
>
> I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation
>
> Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price
>
> No
>
> Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park
>
> No
>
> Me - And why not
>
> The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood
>
> Me - But you are a DIY store
>
> If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you
>
> The wood in question was 30mm wide
>
> How times change and such poor customer care
I have had similar with car recovery. I was told they could not reverse on to my drive and roll the car of the back on to the drive, because they were not insured whilst on my drive. They could only deposit my car on the road.
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > OT
> >
> > I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation
> >
> > Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price
> >
> > No
> >
> > Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park
> >
> > No
> >
> > Me - And why not
> >
> > The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood
> >
> > Me - But you are a DIY store
> >
> > If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you
> >
> > The wood in question was 30mm wide
> >
> > How times change and such poor customer care
>
> I have had similar with car recovery. I was told they could not reverse on to my drive and roll the car of the back on to the drive, because they were not insured whilst on my drive. They could only deposit my car on the road.
Who thinks up this nonsense. The EU have a lot to answer for
> > @Jonathan said:
> > I hereby announce my candidacy for Leader of the Conservative Party. My pitch is that despite not being an MP or a supporter and being opposed to many conservative values, I am not the worst candidate on offer. Not being from any faction, I am uniquely placed to unite the party and move it towards the common ground of politics.
>
> I am actually before you in the queue as I am a member and voted conservative in the EU election so I cannot be disenfranchised. Indeed I believe I could beat several of these candidates with my eyes shut
#BigG4PM2019
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > @Jonathan said:
> > > I hereby announce my candidacy for Leader of the Conservative Party. My pitch is that despite not being an MP or a supporter and being opposed to many conservative values, I am not the worst candidate on offer. Not being from any faction, I am uniquely placed to unite the party and move it towards the common ground of politics.
> >
> > I am actually before you in the queue as I am a member and voted conservative in the EU election so I cannot be disenfranchised. Indeed I believe I could beat several of these candidates with my eyes shut
>
> #BigG4PM2019
Thanks GIN
> > @Jonathan said:
> > I hereby announce my candidacy for Leader of the Conservative Party. My pitch is that despite not being an MP or a supporter and being opposed to many conservative values, I am not the worst candidate on offer. Not being from any faction, I am uniquely placed to unite the party and move it towards the common ground of politics.
>
> I am actually before you in the queue as I am a member and voted conservative in the EU election so I cannot be disenfranchised. Indeed I believe I could beat several of these candidates with my eyes shut
If you voted Conservative in the EU elections you are clearly not a true Conservative and hereby relegated to ChangeUK you wooly Liberal.
> Afternoon all
>
> (snip)
>
> The other aspect remains the extent to which BXP is going to influence the outcome - given they are "here to stay", the question becomes where they will position themselves on the domestic issues. Will Farage be able to hold his disparate band together when it comes to talking about issues like housing, social care, the economy, transport, agriculture and the like?
No.
So we’ll have three parties ripping themselves apart in front of the public.
A party led by (Lord, give me strength) Jo Swinson. Who?
Or the good ole SNP.
Mmmm... I wonder who the voters will plump for? ‘Tis a tricky one.
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > @Jonathan said:
> > > I hereby announce my candidacy for Leader of the Conservative Party. My pitch is that despite not being an MP or a supporter and being opposed to many conservative values, I am not the worst candidate on offer. Not being from any faction, I am uniquely placed to unite the party and move it towards the common ground of politics.
> >
> > I am actually before you in the queue as I am a member and voted conservative in the EU election so I cannot be disenfranchised. Indeed I believe I could beat several of these candidates with my eyes shut
>
> If you voted Conservative in the EU elections you are clearly not a true Conservative and hereby relegated to ChangeUK you wooly Liberal.
I am a true conservative, I am not a UKIPPER
> OT
>
> I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation
>
> Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price
>
> No
>
> Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park
>
> No
>
> Me - And why not
>
> The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood
>
> Me - But you are a DIY store
>
> If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you
>
> The wood in question was 30mm wide
>
> How times change and such poor customer care
It should be fairly obvious but there is no EU law stopping business cutting wood or lending saws. If B&Q choose not to do so, and not to insure their employees, that is purely a commercial decision, someone the size of B&Q can easily source and pay for such insurance if they so desire.
> > @Jonathan said:
> > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > > @Jonathan said:
> > > > I hereby announce my candidacy for Leader of the Conservative Party. My pitch is that despite not being an MP or a supporter and being opposed to many conservative values, I am not the worst candidate on offer. Not being from any faction, I am uniquely placed to unite the party and move it towards the common ground of politics.
> > >
> > > I am actually before you in the queue as I am a member and voted conservative in the EU election so I cannot be disenfranchised. Indeed I believe I could beat several of these candidates with my eyes shut
> >
> > If you voted Conservative in the EU elections you are clearly not a true Conservative and hereby relegated to ChangeUK you wooly Liberal.
>
> I am a true conservative, I am not a UKIPPER
How quaint! I think your party is moving on. Very soon you may be to today's Tories what Abraham Lincoln is to Trump's Republicans.
> I see John Cleese is the latest chap to fall foul of the tw@tter police.<
++++
I think he's in the happy position of not having to give a F what they think
> OT
>
> I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation
>
> Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price
>
> No
>
> Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park
>
> No
>
> Me - And why not
>
> The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood
>
> Me - But you are a DIY store
>
> If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you
>
> The wood in question was 30mm wide
>
> How times change and such poor customer care
I think you will find that H&S at work laws are UK, not the EU.
But this is typical of the mentality that led to Leave.
> A pile of cold sick that my cat vomited up this morning would like to announce it's candidacy for Leader of the Conservative Party.
>
> Blue to it's core and repugnant to all that see it, it offers a refreshing change from the wooly one nation Conservatism on offer these past nine years.
>
>
Let's face it - if the Night King was real and could raise Maggie from the dead, she would be a better candidate than any of them. She would be the wight candidate. In tune with the party membership. Landslide victory.
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > OT
> >
> > I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation
> >
> > Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price
> >
> > No
> >
> > Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park
> >
> > No
> >
> > Me - And why not
> >
> > The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood
> >
> > Me - But you are a DIY store
> >
> > If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you
> >
> > The wood in question was 30mm wide
> >
> > How times change and such poor customer care
>
> I think you will find that H&S at work laws are UK, not the EU.
>
> But this is typical of the mentality that led to Leave.
The employee quoted EU health and safety law to me
Is there a difference between "I will vote for another Party" and "I have voted for another Party". I'll be honest and say no, both positions are incompatible with membership of a Party if you are publicly voting against a candidate from your Party.
As I explained in my previous, when you go public, you cross the line. Had Campbell and Heseltine voted LD and said nothing about it, nobody would have batted an eyelid as nobody would have known. It's a secret ballot just as a Conservative MP can publicly endorse Raab or Johnson but vote for Hunt or Gove.
If I decided to leave the LDs and join the Labour or Conservative parties, would I have to confess to having been a LD member or activist? I'm not obliged to but, as my late Mum would say, "honesty is the best policy". If, on that basis, a Party refused to have me as a member, that wouldn't stop me voting for them or even supporting them financially.
.
> > Who thinks up this nonsense. The EU have a lot to answer for
They really don't in this instance. The culprit if there is one is a culture of sue at the drop of a hat and make big bucks off the liability insurers - a culture which started in the USA to the extent it is not indigenous. UK courts quietly abolishing the doctrine of volenti non fit injuria (meaning if you decide to saw wood you accept the risk involved) also hasn't helped.
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > OT
> >
> > I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation
> >
> > Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price
> >
> > No
> >
> > Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park
> >
> > No
> >
> > Me - And why not
> >
> > The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood
> >
> > Me - But you are a DIY store
> >
> > If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you
> >
> > The wood in question was 30mm wide
> >
> > How times change and such poor customer care
>
> It should be fairly obvious but there is no EU law stopping business cutting wood or lending saws. If B&Q choose not to do so, and not to insure their employees, that is purely a commercial decision, someone the size of B&Q can easily source and pay for such insurance if they so desire.
You may well be right. The employee blamed EU law but more likely B & Q are trying to save money at the expense of good customer care. Also it amazes me that for a large organisation they still do not accept 'contactless' payments
There is a key difference though .
A forecast is not a fact . Bozo clearly lied because he knew the facts and chose to lie about them .
I expect the case will get thrown out by the Crown Court , and I’m uncomfortable with this going to court because it could open up a Pandora’s Box of problems .
If the Commons wants to legislate about standards in public life then I’d be fine with that but I doubt the courts will want to go anywhere near this .
See here
> > @anothernick said:
> > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > OT
> > >
> > > I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation
> > >
> > > Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price
> > >
> > > No
> > >
> > > Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park
> > >
> > > No
> > >
> > > Me - And why not
> > >
> > > The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood
> > >
> > > Me - But you are a DIY store
> > >
> > > If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you
> > >
> > > The wood in question was 30mm wide
> > >
> > > How times change and such poor customer care
> >
> > I think you will find that H&S at work laws are UK, not the EU.
> >
> > But this is typical of the mentality that led to Leave.
>
> The employee quoted EU health and safety law to me
Weird most DIY stores I've been to have a timber cutting service (though it would only be done by qualified people I imagine).
Utterly boring nerdy story, I apologise for sharing
> OT
>
> I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation
>
> Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price
>
> No
>
> Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park
>
> No
>
> Me - And why not
>
> The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood
>
> Me - But you are a DIY store
>
> If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you
>
> The wood in question was 30mm wide
>
> How times change and such poor customer care
I just checked and there are 10 B&Q stores within 30 miles of my location which offer a wood cutting service. So either your store is a rare one that does not have the facility to cut wood (if they don't have the equipment, they can't offer the service) or the assistant was just being lazy.
I suspect the latter and made up an excuse
“If we had confidence that the president had not committed a crime, we would have said so,” he said. He added, citing a DOJ policy: “Charging the president with a crime was therefore not an option we could consider.”
> Bozo and the rest will try to cloud the waters with the forecasts from the Treasury .
>
> There is a key difference though .
>
> A forecast is not a fact . Bozo clearly lied because he knew the facts and chose to lie about them .
>
> I expect the case will get thrown out by the Crown Court , and I’m uncomfortable with this going to court because it could open up a Pandora’s Box of problems .
>
> If the Commons wants to legislate about standards in public life then I’d be fine with that but I doubt the courts will want to go anywhere near this .
I agree with your third paragraph. If found guilty the cases could be never ending. Just more money for the lawyers
> Bozo and the rest will try to cloud the waters with the forecasts from the Treasury .
>
> There is a key difference though .
>
> A forecast is not a fact . Bozo clearly lied because he knew the facts and chose to lie about them .
>
> I expect the case will get thrown out by the Crown Court , and I’m uncomfortable with this going to court because it could open up a Pandora’s Box of problems .
>
> If the Commons wants to legislate about standards in public life then I’d be fine with that but I doubt the courts will want to go anywhere near this .
Am I correct that a Magistrate can basically do what they like (send it up to a Crown Court or drop it) with no basic understanding of the law? - they are lay people, and may (or may not) get/ignore advice from a legally qualified adviser. So the fact that the Magistrate is pushing up to the CC gives no indication of the merit of the case - the legally qualified judge in the CC will do so after hearing the merits and decide whether to allow it to proceed?
I can't make that but will try to get to one of the other events being organised.
Timetable suggests a new leader will be in place by July 23rd which is pretty near the point the House is due to rise for summer recess and I suspect that's where the Conservatives will want to be in terms of having chosen their new leader as well or will they have only got to the last two?
> > @noneoftheabove said:
It should be fairly obvious but there is no EU law stopping business cutting wood or lending saws. If B&Q choose not to do so, and not to insure their employees, that is purely a commercial decision, someone the size of B&Q can easily source and pay for such insurance if they so desire.
>
> You may well be right. The employee blamed EU law but more likely B & Q are trying to safe money at the expense of good customer care. Also it amazes me that for a large organisation they still do not accept 'contactless' payments
You'd have to ask an insurance broker, but I would expect that if you went out into the market and asked for liability cover for customers saying weeks in the car park the answer would be, not at any price. And that if you did saw your own arm off B n Q would be heavily fined for not providing a safe system for you to saw wood.
> Bozo and the rest will try to cloud the waters with the forecasts from the Treasury .
>
> There is a key difference though .
>
> A forecast is not a fact . Bozo clearly lied because he knew the facts and chose to lie about them .
>
> I expect the case will get thrown out by the Crown Court , and I’m uncomfortable with this going to court because it could open up a Pandora’s Box of problems .
>
> If the Commons wants to legislate about standards in public life then I’d be fine with that but I doubt the courts will want to go anywhere near this .
But it wasn't a lie that the gross contributions were 350mn.
> > @noneoftheabove said:
> > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > OT
> > >
> > > I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation
> > >
> > > Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price
> > >
> > > No
> > >
> > > Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park
> > >
> > > No
> > >
> > > Me - And why not
> > >
> > > The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood
> > >
> > > Me - But you are a DIY store
> > >
> > > If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you
> > >
> > > The wood in question was 30mm wide
> > >
> > > How times change and such poor customer care
> >
> > It should be fairly obvious but there is no EU law stopping business cutting wood or lending saws. If B&Q choose not to do so, and not to insure their employees, that is purely a commercial decision, someone the size of B&Q can easily source and pay for such insurance if they so desire.
>
> You may well be right. The employee blamed EU law but more likely B & Q are trying to safe money at the expense of good customer care. Also it amazes me that for a large organisation they still do not accept 'contactless' payments
Of course health and safety laws may play a part in B&Q making those decisions as they are scared of the risk of getting it wrong, so in that sense it is related but there will be thousands of companies across the EU who train staff well and have the appropriate insurance and t&c to deal with the scenarios above.
The employee may or may not have an understanding of the issues, the cynic in me suggests they might just find customers start empathising with them if they mention the EU rather than getting irate at their poor service.
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > OT
> >
> > I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation
> >
> > Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price
> >
> > No
> >
> > Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park
> >
> > No
> >
> > Me - And why not
> >
> > The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood
> >
> > Me - But you are a DIY store
> >
> > If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you
> >
> > The wood in question was 30mm wide
> >
> > How times change and such poor customer care
>
> I just checked and there are 10 B&Q stores within 30 miles of my location which offer a wood cutting service. So either your store is a rare one that does not have the facility to cut wood (if they don't have the equipment, they can't offer the service) or the assistant was just being lazy.
>
> I suspect the latter and made up an excuse
Could be
> While we are on the sad state of corporate stores, I was sorry to see last week that the meat counter at my favourite Tesco (Airfield Way, Hx) is now only open Weds-Sat... even worse, today I found out the two old ladies who used to run it have been ‘retired’ and some youngish bloke who was pushing the big containers about seems to have the job whenever he sees a queue. 😔
>
> Utterly boring nerdy story, I apologise for sharing
Not at all, I've been mourning the closure entirely of my Tesco's fish counter. Really good value fish and it's gone for good!
There's a great fishmonger down the road, but the prices aren't even close for lots of stuff.
> > @stodge said:
> > There is also the nuance of saying what you've done as distinct from saying what you will do but I struggle to see how retrospectively endorsing the candidate of another Party is excusable.
>
> Unless you restrict party membership only to those who have never in the past expressed support for another party, then you cannot apply rules about retrospectively expressing support for other parties.
>
> Suppose one of the Liberal Democrat MPs were to decide to defect from the Liberal Democrats to Labour. Would they be expelled for stating that they had voted Lib Dem in the European elections? If not, how could you expel a different Labour member for saying the same?
>
> If a member makes a statement about future actions then that would qualify as campaigning against the Party, and therefore an expulsion offence.
There is a distinction between an applicant switching to the party (where loyalty would be expected from then on) and an existing member breaking the rules.
In your example the Liberal Democrat was under no expectation to vote Labour at the elections but would next time. Heseltine and Campbell were party members at the election.
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
>
> > > @anothernick said:
>
> > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
>
> > > > OT
>
> > > >
>
> > > > I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price
>
> > > >
>
> > > > No
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park
>
> > > >
>
> > > > No
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Me - And why not
>
> > > >
>
> > > > The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Me - But you are a DIY store
>
> > > >
>
> > > > If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you
>
> > > >
>
> > > > The wood in question was 30mm wide
>
> > > >
>
> > > > How times change and such poor customer care
>
> > >
>
> > > I think you will find that H&S at work laws are UK, not the EU.
>
> > >
>
> > > But this is typical of the mentality that led to Leave.
>
> >
>
> > The employee quoted EU health and safety law to me
>
>
>
> Weird most DIY stores I've been to have a timber cutting service (though it would only be done by qualified people I imagine).
>
> There is a simple solution. Pick up a saw from their rack, cut the wood without asking permission, buy the wood and the saw. I have done this several times. You can always use a saw, and they only cost £8. Alternatively take a saw with you.
To be fair that is logic and in this case I had to return to town this afternoon and took a saw with me and sorted it. I will know in the future
https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1133712135517822976?s=21
> Is Sajid Javid getting paid by the SNP to be so tone deaf?
Scotland is falling apart - education, crime , poverty, university admissions.
Nicola is throwing the same squirrel over and over - why do the weak minded keep ignoring her falling level of support ?
> > @williamglenn said:
> > Is Sajid Javid getting paid by the SNP to be so tone deaf?
>
> Scotland is falling apart - education, crime , poverty, university admissions.
>
> Nicola is throwing the same squirrel over and over - why do the weak minded keep ignoring her falling level of support ?
>
>
That would be true if the conservatives, and even more so, labour had not collapsed over their EU stance
> > @williamglenn said:
> > Is Sajid Javid getting paid by the SNP to be so tone deaf?
>
> Scotland is falling apart - education, crime , poverty, university admissions.
>
> Nicola is throwing the same squirrel over and over - why do the weak minded keep ignoring her falling level of support ?
>
>
It’s the UK that’s falling apart.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1feCjt98HJcY9tlc5Zx78ZoSOC2fN-j0vRVFD5eUTbUE/edit#gid=0
> > @TGOHF said:
> > > @williamglenn said:
> > > Is Sajid Javid getting paid by the SNP to be so tone deaf?
> >
> > Scotland is falling apart - education, crime , poverty, university admissions.
> >
> > Nicola is throwing the same squirrel over and over - why do the weak minded keep ignoring her falling level of support ?
> >
> >
>
> It’s the UK that’s falling apart.
Former FM and the "father of losing referendums" pending trial for sex offences....
> > @nico67 said:
> > Bozo and the rest will try to cloud the waters with the forecasts from the Treasury .
> >
> > There is a key difference though .
> >
> > A forecast is not a fact . Bozo clearly lied because he knew the facts and chose to lie about them .
> >
> > I expect the case will get thrown out by the Crown Court , and I’m uncomfortable with this going to court because it could open up a Pandora’s Box of problems .
> >
> > If the Commons wants to legislate about standards in public life then I’d be fine with that but I doubt the courts will want to go anywhere near this .
>
> But it wasn't a lie that the gross contributions were 350mn.
It was a lie . The 350 million includes the rebate . That money never leaves the country. Johnson didn’t clarify it was a gross amount each time he brought the money up on the campaign . And because he had used the proper figure at different times he opens himself up to accusations he knew what the facts were but chose to lie at different times .
By all means defend the problem with this going to court , as I think it’s not a good move however it’s clear Johnson lied.
Q.
If a member were to vote tactically for a non-Conservative candidate in order, say, to be sure to keep Mr Corbyn out of government, would one automatically be expelled from the Party?
A.
As long as a member does not publicly call on people to vote for another Party it is unlikely we would take action from CCHQ.
<
Taken from actual correspondence.
It’s campaigning before the vote wot does it. They can’t do you for merely remarking post hoc that you dunnit. Free the Campbell One. Oh, wait. He’s Labour. Or maybe not.
> > @RobD said:
> > > @nico67 said:
> > > Bozo and the rest will try to cloud the waters with the forecasts from the Treasury .
> > >
> > > There is a key difference though .
> > >
> > > A forecast is not a fact . Bozo clearly lied because he knew the facts and chose to lie about them .
> > >
> > > I expect the case will get thrown out by the Crown Court , and I’m uncomfortable with this going to court because it could open up a Pandora’s Box of problems .
> > >
> > > If the Commons wants to legislate about standards in public life then I’d be fine with that but I doubt the courts will want to go anywhere near this .
> >
> > But it wasn't a lie that the gross contributions were 350mn.
>
> It was a lie . The 350 million includes the rebate . That money never leaves the country. Johnson didn’t clarify it was a gross amount each time he brought the money up on the campaign . And because he had used the proper figure at different times he opens himself up to accusations he knew what the facts were but chose to lie at different times .
>
> By all means defend the problem with this going to court , as I think it’s not a good move however it’s clear Johnson lied.
Its not a lie. Every time someone rebutted that it was a gross figure that was accepted.
There is no obligation to only quote net numbers. There are valid reasons to use gross ones and gross numbers are commonly quoted in politics.
Quoting gross figures is spin.
Spin is not illegal. It isn't for courts to determine spin.
> > @RobD said:
> > > @nico67 said:
> > > Bozo and the rest will try to cloud the waters with the forecasts from the Treasury .
> > >
> > > There is a key difference though .
> > >
> > > A forecast is not a fact . Bozo clearly lied because he knew the facts and chose to lie about them .
> > >
> > > I expect the case will get thrown out by the Crown Court , and I’m uncomfortable with this going to court because it could open up a Pandora’s Box of problems .
> > >
> > > If the Commons wants to legislate about standards in public life then I’d be fine with that but I doubt the courts will want to go anywhere near this .
> >
> > But it wasn't a lie that the gross contributions were 350mn.
>
> It was a lie . The 350 million includes the rebate . That money never leaves the country. Johnson didn’t clarify it was a gross amount each time he brought the money up on the campaign . And because he had used the proper figure at different times he opens himself up to accusations he knew what the facts were but chose to lie at different times .
>
> By all means defend the problem with this going to court , as I think it’s not a good move however it’s clear Johnson lied.
The number is right there in the government's own accounts for 2016:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/bulletins/unitedkingdombalanceofpaymentsthepinkbook/2016
Page 125, UK Official transactions with institutions of the EU, Total debits: £19.107bn, or £367mn a week.
> Donalds Twitter will be exploding in 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1133759237136494592?s=21
Incidentally, if you want wood, best to go to one of the trade shops like Screwfix if you have one handy. You won't get it VAT-off cos your not trade, but it's kept in better conditions: B&Q wood is usually hockey-stick warped. Now, if you're using one of the larger B&Q stores they do cut your wood for you, but best to check beforehand on t'internet.
> > @RobD said:
> > > @nico67 said:
> > > Bozo and the rest will try to cloud the waters with the forecasts from the Treasury .
> > >
> > > There is a key difference though .
> > >
> > > A forecast is not a fact . Bozo clearly lied because he knew the facts and chose to lie about them .
> > >
> > > I expect the case will get thrown out by the Crown Court , and I’m uncomfortable with this going to court because it could open up a Pandora’s Box of problems .
> > >
> > > If the Commons wants to legislate about standards in public life then I’d be fine with that but I doubt the courts will want to go anywhere near this .
> >
> > But it wasn't a lie that the gross contributions were 350mn.
>
> It was a lie . The 350 million includes the rebate . That money never leaves the country. Johnson didn’t clarify it was a gross amount each time he brought the money up on the campaign . And because he had used the proper figure at different times he opens himself up to accusations he knew what the facts were but chose to lie at different times .
>
> By all means defend the problem with this going to court , as I think it’s not a good move however it’s clear Johnson lied.
He's a politician - that's what they do. I can't think of one who didn't/ doesn't
Well done, imbeciles.
> If Boris had said UK contributions were £700 million per week that would be a lie.
>
> Quoting gross figures is spin.
>
> Spin is not illegal. It isn't for courts to determine spin.
Remainers still not getting it. I seem to recall the remain crowd spending the referendum campaign shouting "it's not 350m, its more like 240m after the rebate!" not realising that to most people that still sounds like far too much money. Focusing on the 350m wasn't a winner then and to pursue it through the courts three years later just confirms what we already know about remainers - they are bad losers.
> OT
>
>
>
> I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation
>
>
>
> Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price
>
>
>
> No
>
>
>
> Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park
>
>
>
> No
>
>
>
> Me - And why not
>
>
>
> The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood
>
>
>
> Me - But you are a DIY store
>
>
>
> If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you
>
>
>
> The wood in question was 30mm wide
>
>
>
> How times change and such poor customer care
>
> Wouldn't it have been simpler to buy a little saw there and then? As opposed to giving the floor staff some aggro?
>
> Incidentally, if you want wood, best to go to one of the trade shops like Screwfix if you have one handy. You won't get it VAT-off cos your not trade, but it's kept in better conditions: B&Q wood is usually hockey-stick warped. Now, if you're using one of the larger B&Q stores they do cut your wood for you, but best to check beforehand on t'internet.
The EU Health and Safety Laws FFS! Was he an international lawyer with a part time job in B&Q, or just a swivel-eyed frothing Leaver?
> Mr. Rentool, getting wood is fine, the problem is having it serviced.
Well we were discussing Do It Yourself!
And any Remainers cheering it on should be doubly worried: it just makes Boris look like the true figurehead of Brexit, it makes him even more important, it will look like yet more Establishment persecution of Leave (following the Electoral Commissions raid on Leave, the day before the vote, which produced no evidence at all). It seriously aids Boris's leadership campaign, AND it seems dodgy.
https://twitter.com/AndrewSelous/status/1133743574565249026
> Out here in Hungary I have a man come and bring me all the wood I need whenever I want it, direct to my place.
Must resist the urge to make naughty jokes.
Just me?
*Or anyone else's.
> Glancing through the thread, I see that some PBers have a problem getting wood...
Some of us are obviously getting on a bit. I had to think hard to get what you were on about. My initial thought was that this was a Spanish wood reference. Now there's a thought.
> I appear to be enjoying a new Vanilla feature whereby none of ScottP's* retweets show up.
>
> Just me?
>
>
> *Or anyone else's.
I think once they are quoted they get removed (if quoted on the main site), which is a nice feature to avoid big tweets clogging up the thread.
> > @GIN1138 said:
> > Donalds Twitter will be exploding in 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...
>
> https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1133759237136494592?s=21
Does the buffoon know When he is Supposed to use capital Letters or is he just an uneducated Moron?
At least "our" version of Trump, Mr Johnson, knows how to speak and write English, even if his ability to lie and carry out the agenda of Putin (perhaps inadvertently) is even more effective than the Trump himself.
> > @AlastairMeeks said:
> > Out here in Hungary I have a man come and bring me all the wood I need whenever I want it, direct to my place.
>
> Must resist the urge to make naughty jokes.<
++++
I think Alastair was already making that joke, all by himself.
> > @ralphmalph said:
>
> > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
>
> > > OT
>
> > >
>
> > > I have been out today and called into B & Q for a length of timber. Now most lengths are 2.4m which will fit in my car but in this case the timber I wanted was 3.00m so was too long. I enquired of one of the assistants on the shop floor and this was the conversation
>
> > >
>
> > > Me - Excuse me, could you cut half a metre off this wood so I can get it into my car, of course I will pay the full price
>
> > >
>
> > > No
>
> > >
>
> > > Me - Could you lend me a saw so I can do it in the car park
>
> > >
>
> > > No
>
> > >
>
> > > Me - And why not
>
> > >
>
> > > The EU health and safety laws prevents us cutting wood
>
> > >
>
> > > Me - But you are a DIY store
>
> > >
>
> > > If we cut ourselves B & Q are not insured. Sorry cannot help you
>
> > >
>
> > > The wood in question was 30mm wide
>
> > >
>
> > > How times change and such poor customer care
>
> >
>
> > I have had similar with car recovery. I was told they could not reverse on to my drive and roll the car of the back on to the drive, because they were not insured whilst on my drive. They could only deposit my car on the road.
>
>
>
> Who thinks up this nonsense. The EU have a lot to answer for
>
> Just an excuse they hide behind as they don't want to do it. Then some idiots moan and whinge about the EU.
Going to be fascinating to see what they do when they can't blame the EU anymore!
> > @RobD said:
> > > @AlastairMeeks said:
> > > Out here in Hungary I have a man come and bring me all the wood I need whenever I want it, direct to my place.
> >
> > Must resist the urge to make naughty jokes.<
>
> ++++
>
> I think Alastair was already making that joke, all by himself.
Outdone, yet again.
> > @GIN1138 said:
> > Donalds Twitter will be exploding in 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...
>
> https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1133759237136494592?s=21
Donald's getting ready to meet Theresa on last time:
NOTHING. HAS. CHANGED.
I'm not sure if ward by ward analysis of EU elections is available but take Warrington as an example. Warrington is split over 2 constituencies, Warrington North (rock solid safe Labour), and Warrington South (swing constituency in the OP).
In 2019 the Brexit Party won the European Elections by a very considerable margin in Warrington as a whole. I imagine by an even bigger margin in Warrington South.