> What a bellend, is it any wonder these churches are circling the drain.
Even Sturgeon thanked May for her service, clearly something your partisanship could never consider
Nothing to do with partisanship, she was crap and should never have been there. I also bet if Sturgeon could give her real opinion instead of her political one, it would not have been far away from mine. May was shit for the UK and even more shit for Scotland. Pity she is allowed to stay even another minute , sooner she is gone the better.
> @TheJezziah said: > I hear Angela Rayner, Rebecca Long-Bailey, Emily Thornberry and Laura Pidcock talked about as good prospects for a Corbyn friendly electorate (as in the Labour membership who pick the leader) and with the talk of the next leader being a woman. If the next leader can be a man if he is BAME then Clive Lewis similarly is on good terms with the left. > > > > The problem with the Corbo succession plan is that, in common with the Trot nano-groups that spawned them, the warlocks around him prized loyalty to The Leader above all. If you're not down on your knees sucking 24/7 you don't exist. Labour has alienated a great deal of talent that they are going to need in the forthcoming Boris Wars that way. > > I don't think there particularly is a succession plan (from Corbyn anyway) just they are the better placed prospects. Most of the great number of people Corbyn has had in his shadow cabinet who aren't there now chose not to be by resigning. Benn may as well have with the plotting, Sarah Champion was fired. I think a couple were fired when they voted against the whip (whilst Lewis resigned article 50 vote maybe or something on Brexit just after the election) > > If the result of people raging civil war in the Labour party because they were unhappy a left wing leader had been elected is to the benefit of Boris or other right wing Tories then I know where I'll be placing the blame.
When will you get it that people don’t care that Jeremy comes from the left, they care that he only cares about the left, talks to his tribe and is not taking us into office.
I am curious what the reaction will be if labour actually do fine in this election. Its like 2017 - some lab mps really dislike Corbyn and his politics, but for others they worries he would lead them to a massive defeat, and melted away when he did not.
Jess is not one of those, but if she looks to have panicked about how bad things are unnecessarily it must surely impact how she proceeds.
On the other hand, if she is correct...
Depends how badly they do. I can see third being possible but not 4th - the Greens are going to do well I assume but are a long way back without as much momentum as the lds, and the Tories are not holding up well enough I think. I think I saw 1 Tory vs a dozen Brexit party people at verification, the enthusiasm gap is astonishing.
I am curious what the reaction will be if labour actually do fine in this election. Its like 2017 - some lab mps really dislike Corbyn and his politics, but for others they worries he would lead them to a massive defeat, and melted away when he did not.
Jess is not one of those, but if she looks to have panicked about how bad things are unnecessarily it must surely impact how she proceeds.
If Labour do well they would have done much better if not for Corbyn and it was not because of Corbyn. If they do badly it is down to Corbyn.
Pretty much the usual system.
Ohh and get angry Corbyn supporters for not accepting their analysis showing Corbyn at fault for everything/to credit for nothing and them proven right.
It is perfectly possible Labour could come fourth on about 12% or so, if the polling is as bad as the Dutch polling was. I'd even consider 5th at a big enough price too.
> @TheJezziah said: > > @TheJezziah said: > > > > @TheJezziah said: > > > > > > > Labour needed CHUK to work - a viable jump ship option for people > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I sort of agreed up to this point. Labour needed CUK in the way Matthew Parris used to describe UKIP to the Tories as drawing some of the crazies out. Unfortunately the electoral realities of centrism kicked in before they could attract a few more Labour MPs. > > > > > > > > > > > > The electoral realities borne out by a surge in support for the Lib Dems? > > > > > > They imagined something more Brexit Party, they know the Lib Dems can't win the next election. > > > > They may well get more votes than Labour. If they can’t win then as things stand neither can we. Corbyn has lost the mojo he had on 2017. He forgot the first rule of opposition, oppose! > > So if someone said UKIP can't win the next election in 2014 you would have said neither can any of the parties below then? > > Presumably if Labour come second the next election is between Brexit party and Labour but if they come third then the next election is between the Lib Dems and Brexit party? > > This government has suffered record defeats and is crumbling (or has crumbled?) as we speak, they look like they've been pretty opposed...
In my experience for a party of the left to gain power there needs to be unambiguous excitement and enthusiasm for it. If Labour are to win, they should be way ahead now. They need that momentum to weather the attacks that will come. We see that time and time again in the UK and abroad, most recently in Australia.
I warn you, Labour are nowhere near close at the moment. If things do not change we will lose and all you believe Jeremy will do will come to nought.
> @TheJezziah said: > > @TheJezziah said: > > > > @TheJezziah said: > > > > > > > Labour needed CHUK to work - a viable jump ship option for people > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I sort of agreed up to this point. Labour needed CUK in the way Matthew Parris used to describe UKIP to the Tories as drawing some of the crazies out. Unfortunately the electoral realities of centrism kicked in before they could attract a few more Labour MPs. > > > > > > > > > > > > The electoral realities borne out by a surge in support for the Lib Dems? > > > > > > They imagined something more Brexit Party, they know the Lib Dems can't win the next election. > > > > They may well get more votes than Labour. If they can’t win then as things stand neither can we. Corbyn has lost the mojo he had on 2017. He forgot the first rule of opposition, oppose! > > So if someone said UKIP can't win the next election in 2014 you would have said neither can any of the parties below then? > > Presumably if Labour come second the next election is between Brexit party and Labour but if they come third then the next election is between the Lib Dems and Brexit party? > > This government has suffered record defeats and is crumbling (or has crumbled?) as we speak, they look like they've been pretty opposed...
May has suffered record defeats. She has crumbled. Let's see if her successor as PM is as inept.....
> I hear Angela Rayner, Rebecca Long-Bailey, Emily Thornberry and Laura Pidcock talked about as good prospects for a Corbyn friendly electorate (as in the Labour membership who pick the leader) and with the talk of the next leader being a woman. If the next leader can be a man if he is BAME then Clive Lewis similarly is on good terms with the left.
>
>
>
> The problem with the Corbo succession plan is that, in common with the Trot nano-groups that spawned them, the warlocks around him prized loyalty to The Leader above all. If you're not down on your knees sucking 24/7 you don't exist. Labour has alienated a great deal of talent that they are going to need in the forthcoming Boris Wars that way.
>
> I don't think there particularly is a succession plan (from Corbyn anyway) just they are the better placed prospects. Most of the great number of people Corbyn has had in his shadow cabinet who aren't there now chose not to be by resigning. Benn may as well have with the plotting, Sarah Champion was fired. I think a couple were fired when they voted against the whip (whilst Lewis resigned article 50 vote maybe or something on Brexit just after the election)
>
> If the result of people raging civil war in the Labour party because they were unhappy a left wing leader had been elected is to the benefit of Boris or other right wing Tories then I know where I'll be placing the blame.
When will you get it that people don’t care that Jeremy comes from the left, they care that he only cares about the left, talks to his tribe and is not taking us into office.
We can't win an election just preaching to Blairites, which is what you people want. the bollocks about reaching out to the electorate basically means copying the hilariously unpopular CUKs. That isn't where the electorate is, they don't want privitisation or an aggressive foreign policy. There have been compromises made to satisfy these people such as renewing Trident but this is nothing to do with the electorate and everything to do with keeping an overly represented narrow slice of opinion within the PLP happy rather than the electorate.
Policy-wise, the gulf between Deal and No Deal is bigger than the one between Deal and Remain. Remain would scoop enough Deal votes to win, should Deal be off the ballot.
> @TheJezziah said: > > @TheJezziah said: > > > I hear Angela Rayner, Rebecca Long-Bailey, Emily Thornberry and Laura Pidcock talked about as good prospects for a Corbyn friendly electorate (as in the Labour membership who pick the leader) and with the talk of the next leader being a woman. If the next leader can be a man if he is BAME then Clive Lewis similarly is on good terms with the left. > > > > > > > > > > > > The problem with the Corbo succession plan is that, in common with the Trot nano-groups that spawned them, the warlocks around him prized loyalty to The Leader above all. If you're not down on your knees sucking 24/7 you don't exist. Labour has alienated a great deal of talent that they are going to need in the forthcoming Boris Wars that way. > > > > > > I don't think there particularly is a succession plan (from Corbyn anyway) just they are the better placed prospects. Most of the great number of people Corbyn has had in his shadow cabinet who aren't there now chose not to be by resigning. Benn may as well have with the plotting, Sarah Champion was fired. I think a couple were fired when they voted against the whip (whilst Lewis resigned article 50 vote maybe or something on Brexit just after the election) > > > > > > If the result of people raging civil war in the Labour party because they were unhappy a left wing leader had been elected is to the benefit of Boris or other right wing Tories then I know where I'll be placing the blame. > > > > When will you get it that people don’t care that Jeremy comes from the left, they care that he only cares about the left, talks to his tribe and is not taking us into office. > > We can't win an election just preaching to Blairites, which is what you people want. the bollocks about reaching out to the electorate basically means copying the hilariously unpopular CUKs. That isn't where the electorate is, they don't want privitisation or an aggressive foreign policy. There have been compromises made to satisfy these people such as renewing Trident but this is nothing to do with the electorate and everything to do with keeping an overly represented narrow slice of opinion within the PLP happy rather than the electorate.
In my experience for a party of the left to gain power there needs to be unambiguous excitement and enthusiasm for it. If Labour are to win, they should be way ahead now. They need that momentum to weather the attacks that will come. We see that time and time again in the UK and abroad, most recently in Australia.
I warn you, Labour are nowhere near close at the moment. If things do not change we will lose and all you believe Jeremy will do will come to nought.
It’s not too late if people wake up and change.
You don't win all the time in politics, if people would rather a Farage or Boris government, if centrists would prefer that then so be it, that is how democracy works, people get to pick.
Truth be told I am just happy someone is seriously making a left wing offer. If politics was about winning for me I'd have picked a different set of beliefs and a different team.
Although that team and beliefs certainly wouldn't be centrism right now.
> I hear Angela Rayner, Rebecca Long-Bailey, Emily Thornberry and Laura Pidcock talked about as good prospects for a Corbyn friendly electorate (as in the Labour membership who pick the leader) and with the talk of the next leader being a woman. If the next leader can be a man if he is BAME then Clive Lewis similarly is on good terms with the left.
>
>
>
> The problem with the Corbo succession plan is that, in common with the Trot nano-groups that spawned them, the warlocks around him prized loyalty to The Leader above all. If you're not down on your knees sucking 24/7 you don't exist. Labour has alienated a great deal of talent that they are going to need in the forthcoming Boris Wars that way.
>
> I don't think there particularly is a succession plan (from Corbyn anyway) just they are the better placed prospects. Most of the great number of people Corbyn has had in his shadow cabinet who aren't there now chose not to be by resigning. Benn may as well have with the plotting, Sarah Champion was fired. I think a couple were fired when they voted against the whip (whilst Lewis resigned article 50 vote maybe or something on Brexit just after the election)
>
> If the result of people raging civil war in the Labour party because they were unhappy a left wing leader had been elected is to the benefit of Boris or other right wing Tories then I know where I'll be placing the blame.
When will you get it that people don’t care that Jeremy comes from the left, they care that he only cares about the left, talks to his tribe and is not taking us into office.
We can't win an election just preaching to Blairites, which is what you people want. the bollocks about reaching out to the electorate basically means copying the hilariously unpopular CUKs. That isn't where the electorate is, they don't want privitisation or an aggressive foreign policy. There have been compromises made to satisfy these people such as renewing Trident but this is nothing to do with the electorate and everything to do with keeping an overly represented narrow slice of opinion within the PLP happy rather than the electorate.
Is that the same Blair supporters that won three elections?
Sort of a reverse Thatcherism. There, 'all subsequent Tory leaders have felt compelled to worship at her shrine.' Here, all subsequent Labour failures, ooops, leaders have felt obliged to defecate all over it - even Corbyn, who is arguably the closest to Blair in his contempt for the truth, lack of sympathy with dissent and obsession with incompetent micro-managing, albeit he has neither Blair's intelligence nor his charm.
> > I hear Angela Rayner, Rebecca Long-Bailey, Emily Thornberry and Laura Pidcock talked about as good prospects for a Corbyn friendly electorate (as in the Labour membership who pick the leader) and with the talk of the next leader being a woman. If the next leader can be a man if he is BAME then Clive Lewis similarly is on good terms with the left.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The problem with the Corbo succession plan is that, in common with the Trot nano-groups that spawned them, the warlocks around him prized loyalty to The Leader above all. If you're not down on your knees sucking 24/7 you don't exist. Labour has alienated a great deal of talent that they are going to need in the forthcoming Boris Wars that way.
>
> >
>
> > I don't think there particularly is a succession plan (from Corbyn anyway) just they are the better placed prospects. Most of the great number of people Corbyn has had in his shadow cabinet who aren't there now chose not to be by resigning. Benn may as well have with the plotting, Sarah Champion was fired. I think a couple were fired when they voted against the whip (whilst Lewis resigned article 50 vote maybe or something on Brexit just after the election)
>
> >
>
> > If the result of people raging civil war in the Labour party because they were unhappy a left wing leader had been elected is to the benefit of Boris or other right wing Tories then I know where I'll be placing the blame.
>
>
>
> When will you get it that people don’t care that Jeremy comes from the left, they care that he only cares about the left, talks to his tribe and is not taking us into office.
>
> We can't win an election just preaching to Blairites, which is what you people want. the bollocks about reaching out to the electorate basically means copying the hilariously unpopular CUKs. That isn't where the electorate is, they don't want privitisation or an aggressive foreign policy. There have been compromises made to satisfy these people such as renewing Trident but this is nothing to do with the electorate and everything to do with keeping an overly represented narrow slice of opinion within the PLP happy rather than the electorate.
Your obsession with Blair is destroying you.
TBH I don't care that much about Blair it is some of his crazy followers I have a problem with these days.
> @TheJezziah said: > In my experience for a party of the left to gain power there needs to be unambiguous excitement and enthusiasm for it. If Labour are to win, they should be way ahead now. They need that momentum to weather the attacks that will come. We see that time and time again in the UK and abroad, most recently in Australia. > > > > I warn you, Labour are nowhere near close at the moment. If things do not change we will lose and all you believe Jeremy will do will come to nought. > > > > It’s not too late if people wake up and change. > > You don't win all the time in politics, if people would rather a Farage or Boris government, if centrists would prefer that then so be it, that is how democracy works, people get to pick. > > Truth be told I am just happy someone is seriously making a left wing offer. If politics was about winning for me I'd have picked a different set of beliefs and a different team. > > Although that team and beliefs certainly wouldn't be centrism right now.
Catastrophic opinion. Winning matters. We’ve not done in 14 years. You can’t help people if you lose. If life for you is about polishing your own halo kindly get out of the way.
> @TheJezziah said: > > We can't win an election just preaching to Blairites, which is what you people want. the bollocks about reaching out to the electorate basically means copying the hilariously unpopular CUKs. That isn't where the electorate is, they don't want privitisation or an aggressive foreign policy. There have been compromises made to satisfy these people such as renewing Trident but this is nothing to do with the electorate and everything to do with keeping an overly represented narrow slice of opinion within the PLP happy rather than the electorate.
You really are a clueless dipshit with shrunken AntMan sized political antennae aren't you?
Please tell me which millions strong section of the electorate call themselves Blairite? You win elections by having people aren't in the party vote for you. Reaching out to the electorate means actually speaking to our former fucking voters who not only keep telling us they won't vote for us because of Corbyn, the actually keep demonstrating they won't vote for us because of Corbyn.
You are right that the public are sick of privatisation - our policies by themselves are popular. Where they are unpopular is that they are currently represented by magic Grandpa and his associated coterie of loons zealots and anti-semites. People will vote to bring back control of the railways and for a more equitable economy, they just won't vote for HIM.
You and your ilk don't give a shit about the public because winning elections isn't your aim. It doesn't matter that people suffer by not having a Labour government as long as you win your internecine war against "Blairites" who mainly exist in your head.
You attack compromise. Real life is compromise. That you don't know that is why you are yours are the cancer killing this party.
> I hear Angela Rayner, Rebecca Long-Bailey, Emily Thornberry and Laura Pidcock talked about as good prospects for a Corbyn friendly electorate (as in the Labour membership who pick the leader) and with the talk of the next leader being a woman. If the next leader can be a man if he is BAME then Clive Lewis similarly is on good terms with the left.
>
>
>
> The problem with the Corbo succession plan is that, in common with the Trot nano-groups that spawned them, the warlocks around him prized loyalty to The Leader above all. If you're not down on your knees sucking 24/7 you don't exist. Labour has alienated a great deal of talent that they are going to need in the forthcoming Boris Wars that way.
>
> I don't think there particularly is a succession plan (from Corbyn anyway) just they are the better placed prospects. Most of the great number of people Corbyn has had in his shadow cabinet who aren't there now chose not to be by resigning. Benn may as well have with the plotting, Sarah Champion was fired. I think a couple were fired when they voted against the whip (whilst Lewis resigned article 50 vote maybe or something on Brexit just after the election)
>
> If the result of people raging civil war in the Labour party because they were unhappy a left wing leader had been elected is to the benefit of Boris or other right wing Tories then I know where I'll be placing the blame.
When will you get it that people don’t care that Jeremy comes from the left, they care that he only cares about the left, talks to his tribe and is not taking us into office.
We can't win an election just preaching to Blairites, which is what you people want. the bollocks about reaching out to the electorate basically means copying the hilariously unpopular CUKs. That isn't where the electorate is, they don't want privitisation or an aggressive foreign policy. There have been compromises made to satisfy these people such as renewing Trident but this is nothing to do with the electorate and everything to do with keeping an overly represented narrow slice of opinion within the PLP happy rather than the electorate.
Is that the same Blair supporters that won three elections?
Have you travelled back from some dystopian future where Change UK succeeded and Chukka has won 3 elections?
If so tell us how to avoid the horror.
Blair won 3 elections, the crazies hanging around now (Blair supporters) think they won 3 elections and then don't understand why they seem to be crap at politics.
> In my experience for a party of the left to gain power there needs to be unambiguous excitement and enthusiasm for it. If Labour are to win, they should be way ahead now. They need that momentum to weather the attacks that will come. We see that time and time again in the UK and abroad, most recently in Australia.
>
>
>
> I warn you, Labour are nowhere near close at the moment. If things do not change we will lose and all you believe Jeremy will do will come to nought.
>
>
>
> It’s not too late if people wake up and change.
>
> You don't win all the time in politics, if people would rather a Farage or Boris government, if centrists would prefer that then so be it, that is how democracy works, people get to pick.
>
> Truth be told I am just happy someone is seriously making a left wing offer. If politics was about winning for me I'd have picked a different set of beliefs and a different team.
>
> Although that team and beliefs certainly wouldn't be centrism right now.
Catastrophic opinion. Winning matters. We’ve not done in 14 years. You can’t help people if you lose. If life for you is about polishing your own halo kindly get out of the way.
Of course winning matters.
If winning was the only thing then you would have joined the Tories, you didn't because there is something more important than winning.
At least I presume you choice to become a Labour party member rather than a Tory was based on political views (or halo polishing as you call it)
> In my experience for a party of the left to gain power there needs to be unambiguous excitement and enthusiasm for it. If Labour are to win, they should be way ahead now. They need that momentum to weather the attacks that will come. We see that time and time again in the UK and abroad, most recently in Australia.
>
>
>
> I warn you, Labour are nowhere near close at the moment. If things do not change we will lose and all you believe Jeremy will do will come to nought.
>
>
>
> It’s not too late if people wake up and change.
>
> You don't win all the time in politics, if people would rather a Farage or Boris government, if centrists would prefer that then so be it, that is how democracy works, people get to pick.
>
> Truth be told I am just happy someone is seriously making a left wing offer. If politics was about winning for me I'd have picked a different set of beliefs and a different team.
>
> Although that team and beliefs certainly wouldn't be centrism right now.
Catastrophic opinion. Winning matters. We’ve not done in 14 years. You can’t help people if you lose. If life for you is about polishing your own halo kindly get out of the way.
Of course winning matters.
If winning was the only thing then you would have joined the Tories, you didn't because there is something more important than winning.
At least I presume you choice to become a Labour party member rather than a Tory was based on political views (or halo polishing as you call it)
I think people are trying to tell you half a loaf is better than no loaf and if you need to sacrifice some things to achieve that half loaf then it’s better than achieving nothing. Anyway I’ll leave you Labour lot to argue between yourselves while I go back to worrying about my party.
> @TheJezziah said: > > @TheJezziah said: > > > In my experience for a party of the left to gain power there needs to be unambiguous excitement and enthusiasm for it. If Labour are to win, they should be way ahead now. They need that momentum to weather the attacks that will come. We see that time and time again in the UK and abroad, most recently in Australia. > > > > > > > > > > > > I warn you, Labour are nowhere near close at the moment. If things do not change we will lose and all you believe Jeremy will do will come to nought. > > > > > > > > > > > > It’s not too late if people wake up and change. > > > > > > You don't win all the time in politics, if people would rather a Farage or Boris government, if centrists would prefer that then so be it, that is how democracy works, people get to pick. > > > > > > Truth be told I am just happy someone is seriously making a left wing offer. If politics was about winning for me I'd have picked a different set of beliefs and a different team. > > > > > > Although that team and beliefs certainly wouldn't be centrism right now. > > > > Catastrophic opinion. Winning matters. We’ve not done in 14 years. You can’t help people if you lose. If life for you is about polishing your own halo kindly get out of the way. > > Of course winning matters. > > If winning was the only thing then you would have joined the Tories, you didn't because there is something more important than winning. > > At least I presume you choice to become a Labour party member rather than a Tory was based on political views (or halo polishing as you call it)
The Labour Party is about ordinary working people getting together, representing themselves, achieving power that they could not achieve alone and governing in the best interest of wider society. It is not an academic of theological exercise.
> We can't win an election just preaching to Blairites, which is what you people want. the bollocks about reaching out to the electorate basically means copying the hilariously unpopular CUKs. That isn't where the electorate is, they don't want privitisation or an aggressive foreign policy. There have been compromises made to satisfy these people such as renewing Trident but this is nothing to do with the electorate and everything to do with keeping an overly represented narrow slice of opinion within the PLP happy rather than the electorate.
You really are a clueless dipshit with shrunken AntMan sized political antennae aren't you?
Please tell me which millions strong section of the electorate call themselves Blairite? You win elections by having people aren't in the party vote for you. Reaching out to the electorate means actually speaking to our former fucking voters who not only keep telling us they won't vote for us because of Corbyn, the actually keep demonstrating they won't vote for us because of Corbyn.
You are right that the public are sick of privatisation - our policies by themselves are popular. Where they are unpopular is that they are currently represented by magic Grandpa and his associated coterie of loons zealots and anti-semites. People will vote to bring back control of the railways and for a more equitable economy, they just won't vote for HIM.
You and your ilk don't give a shit about the public because winning elections isn't your aim. It doesn't matter that people suffer by not having a Labour government as long as you win your internecine war against "Blairites" who mainly exist in your head.
You attack compromise. Real life is compromise. That you don't know that is why you are yours are the cancer killing this party.
I wrote a long reply but quite frankly what is the point, you are a moron, I don't think you are even capable of understanding the post or that you will take the time just come back with some stupid Daily Mail Guido Fawkes level insult.
> In my experience for a party of the left to gain power there needs to be unambiguous excitement and enthusiasm for it. If Labour are to win, they should be way ahead now. They need that momentum to weather the attacks that will come. We see that time and time again in the UK and abroad, most recently in Australia.
>
>
>
> I warn you, Labour are nowhere near close at the moment. If things do not change we will lose and all you believe Jeremy will do will come to nought.
>
>
>
> It’s not too late if people wake up and change.
>
> You don't win all the time in politics, if people would rather a Farage or Boris government, if centrists would prefer that then so be it, that is how democracy works, people get to pick.
>
> Truth be told I am just happy someone is seriously making a left wing offer. If politics was about winning for me I'd have picked a different set of beliefs and a different team.
>
> Although that team and beliefs certainly wouldn't be centrism right now.
Catastrophic opinion. Winning matters. We’ve not done in 14 years. You can’t help people if you lose. If life for you is about polishing your own halo kindly get out of the way.
Of course winning matters.
If winning was the only thing then you would have joined the Tories, you didn't because there is something more important than winning.
At least I presume you choice to become a Labour party member rather than a Tory was based on political views (or halo polishing as you call it)
I think people are trying to tell you half a loaf is better than no loaf and if you need to sacrifice some things to achieve that half loaf then it’s better than achieving nothing. Anyway I’ll leave you Labour lot to argue between yourselves while I go back to worrying about my party.
There is a higher principle beyond just winning, which is my point. Obviously you can discuss where exactly the line is but if you hold any values above winning then you cannot criticise others for the same.
> @TheJezziah said: > > @TheJezziah said: > > > In my experience for a party of the left to gain power there needs to be unambiguous excitement and enthusiasm for it. If Labour are to win, they should be way ahead now. They need that momentum to weather the attacks that will come. We see that time and time again in the UK and abroad, most recently in Australia. > > > > > > > > > > > > I warn you, Labour are nowhere near close at the moment. If things do not change we will lose and all you believe Jeremy will do will come to nought. > > > > > > > > > > > > It’s not too late if people wake up and change. > > > > > > You don't win all the time in politics, if people would rather a Farage or Boris government, if centrists would prefer that then so be it, that is how democracy works, people get to pick. > > > > > > Truth be told I am just happy someone is seriously making a left wing offer. If politics was about winning for me I'd have picked a different set of beliefs and a different team. > > > > > > Although that team and beliefs certainly wouldn't be centrism right now. > > > > Catastrophic opinion. Winning matters. We’ve not done in 14 years. You can’t help people if you lose. If life for you is about polishing your own halo kindly get out of the way. > > Of course winning matters. > > If winning was the only thing then you would have joined the Tories, you didn't because there is something more important than winning. > > At least I presume you choice to become a Labour party member rather than a Tory was based on political views (or halo polishing as you call it) > > I think people are trying to tell you half a loaf is better than no loaf and if you need to sacrifice some things to achieve that half loaf then it’s better than achieving nothing. Anyway I’ll leave you Labour lot to argue between yourselves while I go back to worrying about my party. > > There is a higher principle beyond just winning, which is my point. Obviously you can discuss where exactly the line is but if you hold any values above winning then you cannot criticise others for the same.
You are badly misguided. Maybe after ten more years of the Tories you’ll figure that out.
> @TheJezziah said: > > @TheJezziah said: > > > > > > We can't win an election just preaching to Blairites, which is what you people want. the bollocks about reaching out to the electorate basically means copying the hilariously unpopular CUKs. That isn't where the electorate is, they don't want privitisation or an aggressive foreign policy. There have been compromises made to satisfy these people such as renewing Trident but this is nothing to do with the electorate and everything to do with keeping an overly represented narrow slice of opinion within the PLP happy rather than the electorate. > > > > You really are a clueless dipshit with shrunken AntMan sized political antennae aren't you? > > > > Please tell me which millions strong section of the electorate call themselves Blairite? You win elections by having people aren't in the party vote for you. Reaching out to the electorate means actually speaking to our former fucking voters who not only keep telling us they won't vote for us because of Corbyn, the actually keep demonstrating they won't vote for us because of Corbyn. > > > > You are right that the public are sick of privatisation - our policies by themselves are popular. Where they are unpopular is that they are currently represented by magic Grandpa and his associated coterie of loons zealots and anti-semites. People will vote to bring back control of the railways and for a more equitable economy, they just won't vote for HIM. > > > > You and your ilk don't give a shit about the public because winning elections isn't your aim. It doesn't matter that people suffer by not having a Labour government as long as you win your internecine war against "Blairites" who mainly exist in your head. > > > > You attack compromise. Real life is compromise. That you don't know that is why you are yours are the cancer killing this party. > > I wrote a long reply but quite frankly what is the point, you are a moron, I don't think you are even capable of understanding the post or that you will take the time just come back with some stupid Daily Mail Guido Fawkes level insult.
Comments
May was shit for the UK and even more shit for Scotland. Pity she is allowed to stay even another minute , sooner she is gone the better.
> I hear Angela Rayner, Rebecca Long-Bailey, Emily Thornberry and Laura Pidcock talked about as good prospects for a Corbyn friendly electorate (as in the Labour membership who pick the leader) and with the talk of the next leader being a woman. If the next leader can be a man if he is BAME then Clive Lewis similarly is on good terms with the left.
>
>
>
> The problem with the Corbo succession plan is that, in common with the Trot nano-groups that spawned them, the warlocks around him prized loyalty to The Leader above all. If you're not down on your knees sucking 24/7 you don't exist. Labour has alienated a great deal of talent that they are going to need in the forthcoming Boris Wars that way.
>
> I don't think there particularly is a succession plan (from Corbyn anyway) just they are the better placed prospects. Most of the great number of people Corbyn has had in his shadow cabinet who aren't there now chose not to be by resigning. Benn may as well have with the plotting, Sarah Champion was fired. I think a couple were fired when they voted against the whip (whilst Lewis resigned article 50 vote maybe or something on Brexit just after the election)
>
> If the result of people raging civil war in the Labour party because they were unhappy a left wing leader had been elected is to the benefit of Boris or other right wing Tories then I know where I'll be placing the blame.
When will you get it that people don’t care that Jeremy comes from the left, they care that he only cares about the left, talks to his tribe and is not taking us into office.
Pretty much the usual system.
Ohh and get angry Corbyn supporters for not accepting their analysis showing Corbyn at fault for everything/to credit for nothing and them proven right.
I'd even consider 5th at a big enough price too.
> > @TheJezziah said:
>
> > > @TheJezziah said:
>
> >
>
> > > Labour needed CHUK to work - a viable jump ship option for people
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > I sort of agreed up to this point. Labour needed CUK in the way Matthew Parris used to describe UKIP to the Tories as drawing some of the crazies out. Unfortunately the electoral realities of centrism kicked in before they could attract a few more Labour MPs.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The electoral realities borne out by a surge in support for the Lib Dems?
>
> >
>
> > They imagined something more Brexit Party, they know the Lib Dems can't win the next election.
>
>
>
> They may well get more votes than Labour. If they can’t win then as things stand neither can we. Corbyn has lost the mojo he had on 2017. He forgot the first rule of opposition, oppose!
>
> So if someone said UKIP can't win the next election in 2014 you would have said neither can any of the parties below then?
>
> Presumably if Labour come second the next election is between Brexit party and Labour but if they come third then the next election is between the Lib Dems and Brexit party?
>
> This government has suffered record defeats and is crumbling (or has crumbled?) as we speak, they look like they've been pretty opposed...
In my experience for a party of the left to gain power there needs to be unambiguous excitement and enthusiasm for it. If Labour are to win, they should be way ahead now. They need that momentum to weather the attacks that will come. We see that time and time again in the UK and abroad, most recently in Australia.
I warn you, Labour are nowhere near close at the moment. If things do not change we will lose and all you believe Jeremy will do will come to nought.
It’s not too late if people wake up and change.
> > @TheJezziah said:
>
> > > @TheJezziah said:
>
> >
>
> > > Labour needed CHUK to work - a viable jump ship option for people
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > I sort of agreed up to this point. Labour needed CUK in the way Matthew Parris used to describe UKIP to the Tories as drawing some of the crazies out. Unfortunately the electoral realities of centrism kicked in before they could attract a few more Labour MPs.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The electoral realities borne out by a surge in support for the Lib Dems?
>
> >
>
> > They imagined something more Brexit Party, they know the Lib Dems can't win the next election.
>
>
>
> They may well get more votes than Labour. If they can’t win then as things stand neither can we. Corbyn has lost the mojo he had on 2017. He forgot the first rule of opposition, oppose!
>
> So if someone said UKIP can't win the next election in 2014 you would have said neither can any of the parties below then?
>
> Presumably if Labour come second the next election is between Brexit party and Labour but if they come third then the next election is between the Lib Dems and Brexit party?
>
> This government has suffered record defeats and is crumbling (or has crumbled?) as we speak, they look like they've been pretty opposed...
May has suffered record defeats. She has crumbled. Let's see if her successor as PM is as inept.....
> No wonder Remainers want a referendum between Remain and a deal!
>
> https://twitter.com/whatukthinks/status/1132188761520054272
Policy-wise, the gulf between Deal and No Deal is bigger than the one between Deal and Remain. Remain would scoop enough Deal votes to win, should Deal be off the ballot.
> > @TheJezziah said:
>
> > I hear Angela Rayner, Rebecca Long-Bailey, Emily Thornberry and Laura Pidcock talked about as good prospects for a Corbyn friendly electorate (as in the Labour membership who pick the leader) and with the talk of the next leader being a woman. If the next leader can be a man if he is BAME then Clive Lewis similarly is on good terms with the left.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The problem with the Corbo succession plan is that, in common with the Trot nano-groups that spawned them, the warlocks around him prized loyalty to The Leader above all. If you're not down on your knees sucking 24/7 you don't exist. Labour has alienated a great deal of talent that they are going to need in the forthcoming Boris Wars that way.
>
> >
>
> > I don't think there particularly is a succession plan (from Corbyn anyway) just they are the better placed prospects. Most of the great number of people Corbyn has had in his shadow cabinet who aren't there now chose not to be by resigning. Benn may as well have with the plotting, Sarah Champion was fired. I think a couple were fired when they voted against the whip (whilst Lewis resigned article 50 vote maybe or something on Brexit just after the election)
>
> >
>
> > If the result of people raging civil war in the Labour party because they were unhappy a left wing leader had been elected is to the benefit of Boris or other right wing Tories then I know where I'll be placing the blame.
>
>
>
> When will you get it that people don’t care that Jeremy comes from the left, they care that he only cares about the left, talks to his tribe and is not taking us into office.
>
> We can't win an election just preaching to Blairites, which is what you people want. the bollocks about reaching out to the electorate basically means copying the hilariously unpopular CUKs. That isn't where the electorate is, they don't want privitisation or an aggressive foreign policy. There have been compromises made to satisfy these people such as renewing Trident but this is nothing to do with the electorate and everything to do with keeping an overly represented narrow slice of opinion within the PLP happy rather than the electorate.
Your obsession with Blair is destroying you.
Truth be told I am just happy someone is seriously making a left wing offer. If politics was about winning for me I'd have picked a different set of beliefs and a different team.
Although that team and beliefs certainly wouldn't be centrism right now.
> In my experience for a party of the left to gain power there needs to be unambiguous excitement and enthusiasm for it. If Labour are to win, they should be way ahead now. They need that momentum to weather the attacks that will come. We see that time and time again in the UK and abroad, most recently in Australia.
>
>
>
> I warn you, Labour are nowhere near close at the moment. If things do not change we will lose and all you believe Jeremy will do will come to nought.
>
>
>
> It’s not too late if people wake up and change.
>
> You don't win all the time in politics, if people would rather a Farage or Boris government, if centrists would prefer that then so be it, that is how democracy works, people get to pick.
>
> Truth be told I am just happy someone is seriously making a left wing offer. If politics was about winning for me I'd have picked a different set of beliefs and a different team.
>
> Although that team and beliefs certainly wouldn't be centrism right now.
Catastrophic opinion. Winning matters. We’ve not done in 14 years. You can’t help people if you lose. If life for you is about polishing your own halo kindly get out of the way.
>
> We can't win an election just preaching to Blairites, which is what you people want. the bollocks about reaching out to the electorate basically means copying the hilariously unpopular CUKs. That isn't where the electorate is, they don't want privitisation or an aggressive foreign policy. There have been compromises made to satisfy these people such as renewing Trident but this is nothing to do with the electorate and everything to do with keeping an overly represented narrow slice of opinion within the PLP happy rather than the electorate.
You really are a clueless dipshit with shrunken AntMan sized political antennae aren't you?
Please tell me which millions strong section of the electorate call themselves Blairite? You win elections by having people aren't in the party vote for you. Reaching out to the electorate means actually speaking to our former fucking voters who not only keep telling us they won't vote for us because of Corbyn, the actually keep demonstrating they won't vote for us because of Corbyn.
You are right that the public are sick of privatisation - our policies by themselves are popular. Where they are unpopular is that they are currently represented by magic Grandpa and his associated coterie of loons zealots and anti-semites. People will vote to bring back control of the railways and for a more equitable economy, they just won't vote for HIM.
You and your ilk don't give a shit about the public because winning elections isn't your aim. It doesn't matter that people suffer by not having a Labour government as long as you win your internecine war against "Blairites" who mainly exist in your head.
You attack compromise. Real life is compromise. That you don't know that is why you are yours are the cancer killing this party.
If so tell us how to avoid the horror.
Blair won 3 elections, the crazies hanging around now (Blair supporters) think they won 3 elections and then don't understand why they seem to be crap at politics.
If winning was the only thing then you would have joined the Tories, you didn't because there is something more important than winning.
At least I presume you choice to become a Labour party member rather than a Tory was based on political views (or halo polishing as you call it)
> > @TheJezziah said:
>
> > In my experience for a party of the left to gain power there needs to be unambiguous excitement and enthusiasm for it. If Labour are to win, they should be way ahead now. They need that momentum to weather the attacks that will come. We see that time and time again in the UK and abroad, most recently in Australia.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I warn you, Labour are nowhere near close at the moment. If things do not change we will lose and all you believe Jeremy will do will come to nought.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > It’s not too late if people wake up and change.
>
> >
>
> > You don't win all the time in politics, if people would rather a Farage or Boris government, if centrists would prefer that then so be it, that is how democracy works, people get to pick.
>
> >
>
> > Truth be told I am just happy someone is seriously making a left wing offer. If politics was about winning for me I'd have picked a different set of beliefs and a different team.
>
> >
>
> > Although that team and beliefs certainly wouldn't be centrism right now.
>
>
>
> Catastrophic opinion. Winning matters. We’ve not done in 14 years. You can’t help people if you lose. If life for you is about polishing your own halo kindly get out of the way.
>
> Of course winning matters.
>
> If winning was the only thing then you would have joined the Tories, you didn't because there is something more important than winning.
>
> At least I presume you choice to become a Labour party member rather than a Tory was based on political views (or halo polishing as you call it)
The Labour Party is about ordinary working people getting together, representing themselves, achieving power that they could not achieve alone and governing in the best interest of wider society. It is not an academic of theological exercise.
https://twitter.com/acidwomble/status/1131992709298835457
> > @TheJezziah said:
>
> > In my experience for a party of the left to gain power there needs to be unambiguous excitement and enthusiasm for it. If Labour are to win, they should be way ahead now. They need that momentum to weather the attacks that will come. We see that time and time again in the UK and abroad, most recently in Australia.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I warn you, Labour are nowhere near close at the moment. If things do not change we will lose and all you believe Jeremy will do will come to nought.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > It’s not too late if people wake up and change.
>
> >
>
> > You don't win all the time in politics, if people would rather a Farage or Boris government, if centrists would prefer that then so be it, that is how democracy works, people get to pick.
>
> >
>
> > Truth be told I am just happy someone is seriously making a left wing offer. If politics was about winning for me I'd have picked a different set of beliefs and a different team.
>
> >
>
> > Although that team and beliefs certainly wouldn't be centrism right now.
>
>
>
> Catastrophic opinion. Winning matters. We’ve not done in 14 years. You can’t help people if you lose. If life for you is about polishing your own halo kindly get out of the way.
>
> Of course winning matters.
>
> If winning was the only thing then you would have joined the Tories, you didn't because there is something more important than winning.
>
> At least I presume you choice to become a Labour party member rather than a Tory was based on political views (or halo polishing as you call it)
>
> I think people are trying to tell you half a loaf is better than no loaf and if you need to sacrifice some things to achieve that half loaf then it’s better than achieving nothing. Anyway I’ll leave you Labour lot to argue between yourselves while I go back to worrying about my party.
>
> There is a higher principle beyond just winning, which is my point. Obviously you can discuss where exactly the line is but if you hold any values above winning then you cannot criticise others for the same.
You are badly misguided. Maybe after ten more years of the Tories you’ll figure that out.
> Perfect
> https://twitter.com/acidwomble/status/1131992709298835457
Filmed in CCHQ?
Also, new thread.
> > @TheJezziah said:
>
> >
>
> > We can't win an election just preaching to Blairites, which is what you people want. the bollocks about reaching out to the electorate basically means copying the hilariously unpopular CUKs. That isn't where the electorate is, they don't want privitisation or an aggressive foreign policy. There have been compromises made to satisfy these people such as renewing Trident but this is nothing to do with the electorate and everything to do with keeping an overly represented narrow slice of opinion within the PLP happy rather than the electorate.
>
>
>
> You really are a clueless dipshit with shrunken AntMan sized political antennae aren't you?
>
>
>
> Please tell me which millions strong section of the electorate call themselves Blairite? You win elections by having people aren't in the party vote for you. Reaching out to the electorate means actually speaking to our former fucking voters who not only keep telling us they won't vote for us because of Corbyn, the actually keep demonstrating they won't vote for us because of Corbyn.
>
>
>
> You are right that the public are sick of privatisation - our policies by themselves are popular. Where they are unpopular is that they are currently represented by magic Grandpa and his associated coterie of loons zealots and anti-semites. People will vote to bring back control of the railways and for a more equitable economy, they just won't vote for HIM.
>
>
>
> You and your ilk don't give a shit about the public because winning elections isn't your aim. It doesn't matter that people suffer by not having a Labour government as long as you win your internecine war against "Blairites" who mainly exist in your head.
>
>
>
> You attack compromise. Real life is compromise. That you don't know that is why you are yours are the cancer killing this party.
>
> I wrote a long reply but quite frankly what is the point, you are a moron, I don't think you are even capable of understanding the post or that you will take the time just come back with some stupid Daily Mail Guido Fawkes level insult.
The ultimate reposte