Something I expect to see in the coming weeks: a close Johnson ally will hint darkly that if he is kept off the members' ballot, he will defect to the Brexit Party. Not that I think for a minute he'd follow through. But I believe it'll be a tactic used to scare anti-Johnson MPs into not keeping him off the ballot. It'll be done with plausible deniability, but it'll be from Johnson's camp.
> @ah009 said: > Something I expect to see in the coming weeks: a close Johnson ally will hint darkly that if he is kept off the members' ballot, he will defect to the Brexit Party. > Not that I think for a minute he'd follow through. But I believe it'll be a tactic used to scare anti-Johnson MPs into not keeping him off the ballot. > It'll be done with plausible deniability, but it'll be from Johnson's camp.
That might be balanced by other Tory MPs making it clear that they intend to resign the Tory Whip should Boris be elected.
Top marks for stating the obvious from Crick. Does he think that his view is genuine insight?
Look at football - Busby or Ferguson and their successors. Look at business - Welch at GE or Rose at RR and their successors. Following a successful individual is hard and most fail. The better position is the two removed from the original success.
Perhaps Ms Phillips could explain what she will do other than writing strongly worded messages on Twitter and campaigning for a Jew baiter as head of the Labour Party to become prime minister.
> @oxfordsimon said: > > @Richard_Tyndall said: > > > > > Nobody forces these people to take these jobs. And everyone should know the sorts of pressures they entail. Moreover no one forces these people to walk all over others to gain high office. They choose to do that themselves and so are not deserving of sympathy when they fall from power into a life of wealth and security that few people can even begin to dream of. > > > > Her tears today were self pity when they should have been of shame. > > You have absolutely no evidence for that assertion. You are projecting your own prejudices on the situation. And that says more about you than anything else. > > As regards the pressures, there is some truth in that - but until you have lived the life, you cannot really appreciate what it actually entails. You can think you are prepared, but I suspect nothing can adequately prepare you for it. And we need people prepared to step up to the plate.
I have plenty of evidence based on her time as Home Secretary. Moreover I said it on here before she got anywhere near Number 10. The harm she has done to others means she deserves no sympathy at all.
I have plenty of evidence based on her time as Home Secretary. Moreover I said it on here before she got anywhere near Number 10. The harm she has done to others means she deserves no sympathy at all.
Some believe May "went after illegal immigrants" because she's a nasty xenophobe.
Others think its because she knew it was what voters wanted and politicians, having ignored voters for so long on such matters have now landed us in this Brexit mess.
But it is entertaining watching those who profess sympathy to the plight of others conspicuous selectivity.
I've just seen her speech for the first time. She filled up, turned and marched at speed into Downing Street where I expect she cried. When you feel emotional it's hard not to crack - I did a couple of weeks back during my best man speech for an old friend.
I've heard lots of negative comments today about her emotion, and seen the photos taken. She may be an utterly shit politician. But she remains a living feeling human who has continued on with her sense of duty long after most people would have quit.
She deserves our respect.
Well said.
I'm not sure which is more repulsive, the gleeful grave dancing or the hypocritical hagiography.
She tried her best, but ultimately wasn't up to it - we'll see if her successor(s) are any better. I'm not holding my breath.
Yes, Theresa May has failed. But it was not for want of trying, and trying again. And then again.
History may not give her credit for attempting what increasingly looks like the impossible: an orderly exit from the EU as expected by 52 per cent of Britons who bothered to vote for Brexit in the referendum.
But she deserves a Victoria Cross for the bravery she has displayed every day fighting for what she believes is right.
A courage and sacrifice none of those sniping at her from the "high ground" of hindsight have ever displayed.
The man is a total tosser and I can't stand his music, but one person complained and they pull a poster advertising his new album....what about those rock bands that have shown support for say violent guerrilla groups etc? What about rappers who have been drug dealers or murdered others? Metal bands who worship Satan?
Its a massive slippery slope, in which all that will be allowed are posters of the latest Coldplay album.
Many felt the lack of people skills really was the reason for her shallow support in parliament. “You’d look round the Cabinet table and realise no one had her back, really. Going to the Cabinet once a week was like going to the dentist. Everyone had their say, but you learned nothing about what she wanted.
“She’d say ‘Thank you Andrea, thank you Karen’ then end the meeting. It was like a really bad self-help group where they all paid a lot of money to a shrink, thinking he was going to have some answers but in fact he just let you do all the talking.”
> @Pulpstar said: > Britain seems to be the only country in the entire EU that has transposed EU election law into banning any sort of exit poll before the results start to come in. > > Sums us up really.
We followed the E.U laws more closely than others and policed them more harshly.
> @nunuone said: > > @Pulpstar said: > > Britain seems to be the only country in the entire EU that has transposed EU election law into banning any sort of exit poll before the results start to come in. > > > > Sums us up really. > > We followed the E.U laws more closely than others and policed them more harshly.
Yes we're the only ones who follow the rules a lot of the time. The same thing happened with the beef scandal in the 1990s.
Only one Scottish council area recorded on the table, North Lanarkshire. Strongly pro-Remain (62%) and strongly SNP. Turnout up 7 points. Looking good.
The area is represented by 5 SNP MSPs: Jamie Hepburn (SNP, Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) Richard Lyle (SNP, Uddingston and Bellshill) Alex Neil (SNP, Airdrie and Shotts) Clare Adamson (SNP, Motherwell and Wishaw) Fulton MacGregor (SNP, Coatbridge and Chryston)
... and three SNP MPs and one Labour MP: Hugh Gaffney (LAB, Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill) Marion Fellows (SNP, Motherwell and Wishaw) Neil Gray (SNP, Airdrie and Shotts) Stuart McDonald (SNP, Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East)
> > Nobody forces these people to take these jobs. And everyone should know the sorts of pressures they entail. Moreover no one forces these people to walk all over others to gain high office. They choose to do that themselves and so are not deserving of sympathy when they fall from power into a life of wealth and security that few people can even begin to dream of.
> >
> > Her tears today were self pity when they should have been of shame.
>
> You have absolutely no evidence for that assertion. You are projecting your own prejudices on the situation. And that says more about you than anything else.
>
> As regards the pressures, there is some truth in that - but until you have lived the life, you cannot really appreciate what it actually entails. You can think you are prepared, but I suspect nothing can adequately prepare you for it. And we need people prepared to step up to the plate.
I have plenty of evidence based on her time as Home Secretary. Moreover I said it on here before she got anywhere near Number 10. The harm she has done to others means she deserves no sympathy at all.
You are a massive Europhobe, and as you keep on repeating, May was a remainer. It does appear that you appear to be viewing things through the effluent-encrusted prism of Brexit.
A depressing thread. Most of the nastiness directed at May reads to me as a proxy for the anger felt by many at what the people have done. Democracy tells us that the people are soever but their sheer number seems to remove us from blame. I say shame on all of us - were the governance we deserve - Brexit et al.
Yes, Theresa May has failed. But it was not for want of trying, and trying again. And then again.
History may not give her credit for attempting what increasingly looks like the impossible: an orderly exit from the EU as expected by 52 per cent of Britons who bothered to vote for Brexit in the referendum.
But she deserves a Victoria Cross for the bravery she has displayed every day fighting for what she believes is right.
A courage and sacrifice none of those sniping at her from the "high ground" of hindsight have ever displayed.
‘Hindsight’ is a strange condemnation, given the majority of the ‘sniping’ has been criticisms of her manner of governing consistent over the last couple of years. And a substantial portion of which have been consistent since the start of her premiership.
> @AndyJS said: > > @nunuone said: > > > @Pulpstar said: > > > Britain seems to be the only country in the entire EU that has transposed EU election law into banning any sort of exit poll before the results start to come in. > > > > > > Sums us up really. > > > > We followed the E.U laws more closely than others and policed them more harshly. > > Yes we're the only ones who follow the rules a lot of the time. The same thing happened with the beef scandal in the 1990s.
“Follow the rules” is something of a myth, given the way in which governments have frequently exceeded what they require, and then blamed Europe when there’s a backlash.
> @JosiasJessop said: > > @oxfordsimon said: > > > > @Richard_Tyndall said: > > > > > > > > > > > Nobody forces these people to take these jobs. And everyone should know the sorts of pressures they entail. Moreover no one forces these people to walk all over others to gain high office. They choose to do that themselves and so are not deserving of sympathy when they fall from power into a life of wealth and security that few people can even begin to dream of. > > > > > > > > Her tears today were self pity when they should have been of shame. > > > > > > You have absolutely no evidence for that assertion. You are projecting your own prejudices on the situation. And that says more about you than anything else. > > > > > > As regards the pressures, there is some truth in that - but until you have lived the life, you cannot really appreciate what it actually entails. You can think you are prepared, but I suspect nothing can adequately prepare you for it. And we need people prepared to step up to the plate. > > > > I have plenty of evidence based on her time as Home Secretary. Moreover I said it on here before she got anywhere near Number 10. The harm she has done to others means she deserves no sympathy at all. > > You are a massive Europhobe, and as you keep on repeating, May was a remainer. It does appear that you appear to be viewing things through the effluent-encrusted prism of Brexit.
Are you supporting her role in the Windrush Scandal and the "Go Back Home" vans?
May didn't shed a tear in public for Grenfell, Windrush, Universal Credit or any number of events or harmful Tory policy. She only cracked when she had to leave her highly paid job because she wasn't very good at it. Sympathy? Nah.
> @CarlottaVance said: > I've just seen her speech for the first time. She filled up, turned and marched at speed into Downing Street where I expect she cried. When you feel emotional it's hard not to crack - I did a couple of weeks back during my best man speech for an old friend. > > > > I've heard lots of negative comments today about her emotion, and seen the photos taken. She may be an utterly shit politician. But she remains a living feeling human who has continued on with her sense of duty long after most people would have quit. > > > > She deserves our respect. > > Well said. > > I'm not sure which is more repulsive, the gleeful grave dancing or the hypocritical hagiography. > > She tried her best, but ultimately wasn't up to it - we'll see if her successor(s) are any better. I'm not holding my breath.
With respect, people can be critical of political policies and the ways of implementing them with out being disrespectful. I think that "She tried her best, but ultimately wasn't up to it" is in itself quite damning for a high position.
> @Mortimer said: > > @justin124 said: > > > @Mortimer said: > > > > @justin124 said: > > > > > @HYUFD said: > > > > > https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/1132000001738117123?s=20 > > > > > > > > Major was PM for 6.5 years! > > > > > > After Thatcher had served more then 11.5 > > > > > > So, Major was PM for roughly half as long. > > > > Nearer 60% but my point is that he was PM for a long time. Not far off Macmillan. > > 60% is roughly half....
Also Cameron was not PM for such a long time. 6 Years
May didn't shed a tear in public for Grenfell, Windrush, Universal Credit or any number of events or harmful Tory policy. She only cracked when she had to leave her highly paid job because she wasn't very good at it. Sympathy? Nah.
Exactly. Fuck her, fuck Speccy Phil and fuck the Jag they rode in on.
> @Richard_Tyndall said: > > @Jonathan said: > > > @HYUFD said: > > > > @Jonathan said: > > > > > @HYUFD said: > > > > > > @rottenborough said: > > > > > > https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/1132000001738117123 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My objection to this is that Brown was not a lesser figure. A good chunk, maybe the bulk, of New Labour policy and conception was driven by Brown, relentlessly. Even the 'tough on crime' etc etc was his. > > > > > > > > > > > > Blair would have never amounted to anything if they had not happened to share an office. Discuss. > > > > > > > > > > Brown was the worst PM in half a century > > > > > > > > After the debacle of the last five years it takes gall and/or blindness to keep saying that. > > > > > > It was Brown who overspend and failed to control immigration and let the banks run riot and created the conditions for the populist unrest which produced Corbyn and Brexit in the first plave > > > > Total crap. > > Nope I would suggest that is pretty accurate. He and May vie for worst PM in the post war era.
Not at all. May's policies and leadership as PM was much much worse than Brown's. A bad point the both shared was how to react when things started going wrong. Ironically the point at which things started going wrong for may was when she called an election, and for brown when he decided not to call an election.
> @eristdoof said: > > @Richard_Tyndall said: > > > @Jonathan said: > > > > @HYUFD said: > > > > > @Jonathan said: > > > > > > @HYUFD said: > > > > > > > @rottenborough said: > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/1132000001738117123 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My objection to this is that Brown was not a lesser figure. A good chunk, maybe the bulk, of New Labour policy and conception was driven by Brown, relentlessly. Even the 'tough on crime' etc etc was his. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blair would have never amounted to anything if they had not happened to share an office. Discuss. > > > > > > > > > > > > Brown was the worst PM in half a century > > > > > > > > > > After the debacle of the last five years it takes gall and/or blindness to keep saying that. > > > > > > > > It was Brown who overspend and failed to control immigration and let the banks run riot and created the conditions for the populist unrest which produced Corbyn and Brexit in the first plave > > > > > > Total crap. > > > > Nope I would suggest that is pretty accurate. He and May vie for worst PM in the post war era. > > Not at all. May's policies and leadership as PM was much much worse than Brown's. A bad point the both shared was how to react when things started going wrong. Ironically the point at which things started going wrong for may was when she called an election, and for brown when he decided not to call an election.
> @matt said: > https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1131919440852004864 > > > > > > Phillips vs Boris at GE 2022? > > > > Wow. That would be something... > > > Perhaps Ms Phillips could explain what she will do other than writing strongly worded messages on Twitter and campaigning for a Jew baiter as head of the Labour Party to become prime minister.
Jess has been characteristically outspoken in her condemnation of anti-semitism in the Labour party. Indeed it seems to be the main reason the arch Corbynites hate and abuse her.
I really like her. She speaks up strongly for British values, is a good media performer, and would do a great job of cleaning up the Labour Party's act.
> @MarqueeMark said: > > @eristdoof said: > > > @Richard_Tyndall said: > > > > @Jonathan said: > > > > > @HYUFD said: > > > > > > @Jonathan said: > > > > > > > @HYUFD said: > > > > > > > > @rottenborough said: > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/1132000001738117123 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My objection to this is that Brown was not a lesser figure. A good chunk, maybe the bulk, of New Labour policy and conception was driven by Brown, relentlessly. Even the 'tough on crime' etc etc was his. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blair would have never amounted to anything if they had not happened to share an office. Discuss. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Brown was the worst PM in half a century > > > > > > > > > > > > After the debacle of the last five years it takes gall and/or blindness to keep saying that. > > > > > > > > > > It was Brown who overspend and failed to control immigration and let the banks run riot and created the conditions for the populist unrest which produced Corbyn and Brexit in the first plave > > > > > > > > Total crap. > > > > > > Nope I would suggest that is pretty accurate. He and May vie for worst PM in the post war era. > > > > Not at all. May's policies and leadership as PM was much much worse than Brown's. A bad point the both shared was how to react when things started going wrong. Ironically the point at which things started going wrong for may was when she called an election, and for brown when he decided not to call an election. > > Brown had a Darling to bail him out. > > May didn't.
One of May's worst faults is her poor judgement of people. She has appointed to cabinet far too many incompetent or lacklustre underlings. Mostly because she doesn't want to listen.
> @brendan16 said: > > @AndreaParma_82 said: > > > Otherwise UK would have imposed to wait to publish results until the last bureau of Guayane close! > > > > > > You are already the only one waiting for Italy. Waiting for Guyane and co would have been too much for all British anoraks > > > > > > > @kle4 said: > > > > tomorrow it's time for > > > > > > > > > > > The French islands not voting at the same time as mainland France? Logistical issue? > > > > > > > > > > So Andrea, all other countries start counting and releasing results as soon as they finish on Sunday? eg Germany 6pm local, France/Spain 8pm - is that right? UK only country to wait for Italy closing at 11pm local time??!! > > But we like late nights and declarations at 3am. Just the way we are.
The result in germany is also much quicker than in the UK. The exit polls are always accurate to with in 1% (1 percentage point to be exact) partly because of the PR half of the voting system. All votes are counted in the polling station itself which means no transport of ballot papers before counting begins and the pile of papers is smaller.
After one hour, enough stations have submitted their results so that the exit poll can be updated to be accurate within 0.2%p.
The candidates themselves have to wait longer to know exactly who has been elected, but the main result is pretty much certain with in an hour of the polls closing.
> Perhaps Ms Phillips could explain what she will do other than writing strongly worded messages on Twitter and campaigning for a Jew baiter as head of the Labour Party to become prime minister.
Jess has been characteristically outspoken in her condemnation of anti-semitism in the Labour party. Indeed it seems to be the main reason the arch Corbynites hate and abuse her.
I really like her. She speaks up strongly for British values, is a good media performer, and would do a great job of cleaning up the Labour Party's act.
I have been on the Jess Rodham Phillips hype train for while but she won't be the next leader as she is still unforgiven for lack of unswerving loyalty to Corbo.
> @MarqueeMark said: > > @eristdoof said: > > > @Richard_Tyndall said: > > > > @Jonathan said: > > > > > @HYUFD said: > > > > > > @Jonathan said: > > > > > > > @HYUFD said: > > > > > > > > @rottenborough said: > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/1132000001738117123 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My objection to this is that Brown was not a lesser figure. A good chunk, maybe the bulk, of New Labour policy and conception was driven by Brown, relentlessly. Even the 'tough on crime' etc etc was his. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blair would have never amounted to anything if they had not happened to share an office. Discuss. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Brown was the worst PM in half a century > > > > > > > > > > > > After the debacle of the last five years it takes gall and/or blindness to keep saying that. > > > > > > > > > > It was Brown who overspend and failed to control immigration and let the banks run riot and created the conditions for the populist unrest which produced Corbyn and Brexit in the first plave > > > > > > > > Total crap. > > > > > > Nope I would suggest that is pretty accurate. He and May vie for worst PM in the post war era. > > > > Not at all. May's policies and leadership as PM was much much worse than Brown's. A bad point the both shared was how to react when things started going wrong. Ironically the point at which things started going wrong for may was when she called an election, and for brown when he decided not to call an election. > > Brown had a Darling to bail him out. > > May didn't.
Poigniant: May had the option of a strong and experienced chancellor, but chose to antagonise him instead.
> @twistedfirestopper3 said: > May didn't shed a tear in public for Grenfell, Windrush, Universal Credit or any number of events or harmful Tory policy. She only cracked when she had to leave her highly paid job because she wasn't very good at it. Sympathy? Nah.
She's borderline autistic.
I don't hold public weeping, or not public weeping, against her.
> @Casino_Royale said: > > @twistedfirestopper3 said: > > May didn't shed a tear in public for Grenfell, Windrush, Universal Credit or any number of events or harmful Tory policy. She only cracked when she had to leave her highly paid job because she wasn't very good at it. Sympathy? Nah. > > She's borderline autistic. > > I don't hold public weeping, or not public weeping, against her.
I don't think she is. She is just socially awkward and inflexible of mind. We do not need to medicalise her personality.
> @eristdoof said: > > @brendan16 said: > > > @AndreaParma_82 said: > > > > > Otherwise UK would have imposed to wait to publish results until the last bureau of Guayane close! > > > > > > > > > > You are already the only one waiting for Italy. Waiting for Guyane and co would have been too much for all British anoraks > > > > > > > > > > > @kle4 said: > > > > > > tomorrow it's time for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The French islands not voting at the same time as mainland France? Logistical issue? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So Andrea, all other countries start counting and releasing results as soon as they finish on Sunday? eg Germany 6pm local, France/Spain 8pm - is that right? UK only country to wait for Italy closing at 11pm local time??!! > > > > But we like late nights and declarations at 3am. Just the way we are. > > The result in germany is also much quicker than in the UK. The exit polls are always accurate to with in 1% (1 percentage point to be exact) partly because of the PR half of the voting system. All votes are counted in the polling station itself which means no transport of ballot papers before counting begins and the pile of papers is smaller. > > After one hour, enough stations have submitted their results so that the exit poll can be updated to be accurate within 0.2%p. > > The candidates themselves have to wait longer to know exactly who has been elected, but the main result is pretty much certain with in an hour of the polls closing.
Seems sensible to count the votes in the polling station.
> > I have been on the Jess Rodham Phillips hype train for while but she won't be the next leader as she is still unforgiven for lack of unswerving loyalty to Corbo.
Jess can do it with her new shorter hair. That is the secret of all successful female leaders around the world. Not sure why: perhaps long hair is blown around too much during open-air speeches and is distracting to television audiences. Thatcher and Merkel; Pelosi and Hillary; Ruth and Nicola in Scotland; now Jess Phillips.
That is also how Theresa May beat Andrea Leadsom last time, come to think of it.
Still on staircases, Downing Street’s Norma Desmond is finally to descend hers on 7 June. Gallingly, she must still put up with noises off from her former chief of staff. Nick Timothy really is the Paul Burrell of politics, dining out shamelessly on his various betrayals of his former boss. Nick used this week’s Telegraph column to state that “warning signs” were there from the start with May’s personality, that the 2017 election was “a disaster” and the Tory campaign “poor”. Dramatists, is there such a thing as reverse character development, where the character actually knows less at the end than he did at the beginning? Where his understanding of the situation is akin to a highly unstable radioactive isotope with an incredibly short half-life? Because really: THIS GUY.
Then again: ALL OF US. It feels like we’re back where we were in July 2016, only with many, many more things broken. Haven’t we already found out what happened when Andrea Leadsom launches a leadership bid? Isn’t she still Brexit’s second-stupidest Andrea (Jenkyns will always edge it)? Don’t we know what Boris Johnson’s like? Why are we doing it again? It’s like there’s some tear in the worst-possible ideas continuum.
> > > Nobody forces these people to take these jobs. And everyone should know the sorts of pressures they entail. Moreover no one forces these people to walk all over others to gain high office. They choose to do that themselves and so are not deserving of sympathy when they fall from power into a life of wealth and security that few people can even begin to dream of.
>
> > >
>
> > > Her tears today were self pity when they should have been of shame.
>
> >
>
> > You have absolutely no evidence for that assertion. You are projecting your own prejudices on the situation. And that says more about you than anything else.
>
> >
>
> > As regards the pressures, there is some truth in that - but until you have lived the life, you cannot really appreciate what it actually entails. You can think you are prepared, but I suspect nothing can adequately prepare you for it. And we need people prepared to step up to the plate.
>
>
>
> I have plenty of evidence based on her time as Home Secretary. Moreover I said it on here before she got anywhere near Number 10. The harm she has done to others means she deserves no sympathy at all.
>
> You are a massive Europhobe, and as you keep on repeating, May was a remainer. It does appear that you appear to be viewing things through the effluent-encrusted prism of Brexit.
Are you supporting her role in the Windrush Scandal
> > > Nobody forces these people to take these jobs. And everyone should know the sorts of pressures they entail. Moreover no one forces these people to walk all over others to gain high office. They choose to do that themselves and so are not deserving of sympathy when they fall from power into a life of wealth and security that few people can even begin to dream of.
>
> > >
>
> > > Her tears today were self pity when they should have been of shame.
>
> >
>
> > You have absolutely no evidence for that assertion. You are projecting your own prejudices on the situation. And that says more about you than anything else.
>
> >
>
> > As regards the pressures, there is some truth in that - but until you have lived the life, you cannot really appreciate what it actually entails. You can think you are prepared, but I suspect nothing can adequately prepare you for it. And we need people prepared to step up to the plate.
>
>
>
> I have plenty of evidence based on her time as Home Secretary. Moreover I said it on here before she got anywhere near Number 10. The harm she has done to others means she deserves no sympathy at all.
>
> You are a massive Europhobe, and as you keep on repeating, May was a remainer. It does appear that you appear to be viewing things through the effluent-encrusted prism of Brexit.
Are you supporting her role in the Windrush Scandal and the "Go Back Home" vans?
No. But in the case of the Windrush Scandal, it was very much that she was holding the potato when it finally got hot, having been heated by her predecessors. And I will criticise her for the 'Go Back Home' vans - but that seems rather feeble stuff. Being HS is a real poisoned chalice.
Tyndall is accusing May of causing harm to others, when his own beloved Brexit is doing much worse to community relations in this country.
> @Richard_Tyndall said: > > @oxfordsimon said: > > The unwillingness of a number of people (on here and elsewhere) to refuse to look beyond the political to the human is dispiriting. > > > > We have enough problems getting people of talent to enter public service without further compounding the issue by refusing to see that politicians of every shade are also human beings with emotions, feelings and frailties. > > > > Yes, argue about priorities, policies and positions. Question motives. > > > > But we have to acknowledge the public service in high political office takes a human toll. > > > > For all her failings, Theresa May showed the emotional impact that the job has taken on her. It was a very natural and human reaction - she is not a good enough actor to fake that. > > > > For all his failings, Jeremy Corbyn must find the pressures of being LOTO challenging to deal with at times. Can I despise what he stands for and at the same time acknowledge that some of the things he has endured will have come at no little personal, human cost? Of course. > > > > Corbyn has failed to live up to his claim to wanting to deliver a kinder, gentler politics. But that doesn't mean the rest of us should stop trying. > > > > If we want a functional political class - and I think that is something we all should be able to agree on - we have to allow for some level of human frailty and allow some compassion. We don't have to forgive everything, we don't have to forget it either. > > > > But our politicians will never be perfect. We do have to hold them to a higher standard because they seek to govern us. But we also have to acknowledge their humanity from time to time. > > > > Not everything is political. Nor should it ever be. > > Nobody forces these people to take these jobs. And everyone should know the sorts of pressures they entail. Moreover no one forces these people to walk all over others to gain high office. They choose to do that themselves and so are not deserving of sympathy when they fall from power into a life of wealth and security that few people can even begin to dream of. > > Her tears today were self pity when they should have been of shame.
> @DecrepitJohnL said: > > @Dura_Ace said: > > > > > I have been on the Jess Rodham Phillips hype train for while but she won't be the next leader as she is still unforgiven for lack of unswerving loyalty to Corbo. > > Jess can do it with her new shorter hair. That is the secret of all successful female leaders around the world. Not sure why: perhaps long hair is blown around too much during open-air speeches and is distracting to television audiences. Thatcher and Merkel; Pelosi and Hillary; Ruth and Nicola in Scotland; now Jess Phillips. > > That is also how Theresa May beat Andrea Leadsom last time, come to think of it.
> @Nigelb said: > Just listened again to the May valedictory. > Anyone else get the strong whiff of barely suppressed anger mixed with the tears, or am I imagining it ?
Just watched in full for the first time. I think she's angry at herself more than anyone else.
I've never been her greatest fan politically but she's a thoroughly decent person with a strong sense of duty. I feel sorry for her, and wish her and Philip well.
If the next leader still commands the support of the DUP, they will have a working majority of only five. If they fail a confidence vote and no alternative government is confirmed by the Commons within 14 days, there will be a general election. The lack of a clear majority for Mrs May’s successor is likely to worry Buckingham Palace. The Cabinet Manual says that once a prime minister resigns, “the Sovereign will invite the person who appears most likely to be able to command the confidence of the House to serve as prime minister”. Who that is may not be clear.
One senior cabinet minister said: “There is all but certain to be a confidence vote to test the new leader has a Commons majority, either at their initiation or because one is called by Jeremy Corbyn. This is likely to be before the summer recess.”
> @nico67 said: > If the Tories had any sense they’d go for Michael Gove . > > He’s the only Brexiter who could unite the party , he’s not despised in the EU and has at least shown some loyalty to May. > > The EU are going to dig their heels in and will never offer Bozo anything , they won’t make him the hero for the Leavers. > > Bozo is a one way ticket to a complete Tory implosion.
Agreed. Unfortunately the most passionate Brexiteers may resent his support for May's deal - nevertheless he should be able to win support from Remainers and Leavers.
His performance in the Cameron/May cabinets suggests he could get things other than Brexit done as well.
> @Essexit said: > > @Nigelb said: > > Just listened again to the May valedictory. > > Anyone else get the strong whiff of barely suppressed anger mixed with the tears, or am I imagining it ? > > Just watched in full for the first time. I think she's angry at herself more than anyone else. > > I've never been her greatest fan politically but she's a thoroughly decent person with a strong sense of duty. I feel sorry for her, and wish her and Philip well.
As I said earlier in the thread, I think her a dreadful PM who did considerable damage to the country. I nevertheless feel a degree of sympathy for her.
> @Dura_Ace said: > > @matt said: > > > https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1131919440852004864 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Phillips vs Boris at GE 2022? > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow. That would be something... > > > > > > > > > Perhaps Ms Phillips could explain what she will do other than writing strongly worded messages on Twitter and campaigning for a Jew baiter as head of the Labour Party to become prime minister. > > > > Jess has been characteristically outspoken in her condemnation of anti-semitism in the Labour party. Indeed it seems to be the main reason the arch Corbynites hate and abuse her. > > > > I really like her. She speaks up strongly for British values, is a good media performer, and would do a great job of cleaning up the Labour Party's act. > > I have been on the Jess Rodham Phillips hype train for while but she won't be the next leader as she is still unforgiven for lack of unswerving loyalty to Corbo.
Me too. Jess would be good. Incidentally I don't understand how these arrows work so I don't know who made the comment but the term 'Jew Baiter' is highly offensive. Jewish people are not animals to be 'baited'. Find another way to be offensive to someone you don't like.
> @Nigelb said: > Just listened again to the May valedictory. > Anyone else get the strong whiff of barely suppressed anger mixed with the tears, or am I imagining it ?
I don’t think she did herself, her party or her nation any favours with that performance.
When did the stiff-upper Wodehousian English lip get replaced by moanin, whinin an greetin? Pull together England.
Mind you, she is only reflecting modern society: the entire planet seems to be imitating the very worst aspects of American culture.
If the Tories had any sense they’d go for Michael Gove .
He’s the only Brexiter who could unite the party , he’s not despised in the EU and has at least shown some loyalty to May.
The EU are going to dig their heels in and will never offer Bozo anything , they won’t make him the hero for the Leavers.
Bozo is a one way ticket to a complete Tory implosion.
Knifing BoZo is probably the greatest act of public service Gove will ever perform, but it doesn't make up for the cardinal sin of supporting him in the first place. "We have had enough of experts" will be his epitaph
> @nico67 said: > > The EU are going to dig their heels in and will never offer Bozo anything , they won’t make him the hero for the Leavers. > The EU doesn't care about "heroes or villans" for Brexit. They only want the best for 27 member countries and have dug their heals because the attempted negotiations from the British side go too far.
> Perhaps Ms Phillips could explain what she will do other than writing strongly worded messages on Twitter and campaigning for a Jew baiter as head of the Labour Party to become prime minister.
Jess has been characteristically outspoken in her condemnation of anti-semitism in the Labour party. Indeed it seems to be the main reason the arch Corbynites hate and abuse her.
I really like her. She speaks up strongly for British values, is a good media performer, and would do a great job of cleaning up the Labour Party's act.
Can't imagine a worse leader for Labour to be honest. very few MPs I wouldn't prefer to Jess to lead the Labour party. Maybe the Tory and DUP ones, joint with a few of the Labour and CUK ones.
Fortunately that nightmare seems a distant prospect.
Ohh and for clarity Jess "Stab him in the front" and "Fuck off" Diane Abbott Phillips is more disliked for her self obsession and attempt to self promote herself by attacking the party. Not British values I share quite frankly.
Edit: Alternatively if this is a play to get people voting for 3rd parties it would definitely work on me...
> I have been on the Jess Rodham Phillips hype train for while but she won't be the next leader as she is still unforgiven for lack of unswerving loyalty to Corbo.
Jess can do it with her new shorter hair. That is the secret of all successful female leaders around the world. Not sure why: perhaps long hair is blown around too much during open-air speeches and is distracting to television audiences. Thatcher and Merkel; Pelosi and Hillary; Ruth and Nicola in Scotland; now Jess Phillips.
That is also how Theresa May beat Andrea Leadsom last time, come to think of it.
Interesting point!
Jess would make mincemeat of any of the Tory numpties chucking their hats in the ring. Jezza would put them in number 10.
Nothing will happen in the next 2 months politically, plenty of time for Labour to have a new leader too.
> @Essexit said: > > @nico67 said: > > If the Tories had any sense they’d go for Michael Gove . > > > > He’s the only Brexiter who could unite the party , he’s not despised in the EU and has at least shown some loyalty to May. > > > > The EU are going to dig their heels in and will never offer Bozo anything , they won’t make him the hero for the Leavers. > > > > Bozo is a one way ticket to a complete Tory implosion. > > Agreed. Unfortunately the most passionate Brexiteers may resent his support for May's deal - nevertheless he should be able to win support from Remainers and Leavers. > > His performance in the Cameron/May cabinets suggests he could get things other than Brexit done as well.
I know people think he’s a bit of a snake but aren’t all politicians.
As a Remainer people I suppose expect me to be totally anti Gove . However there are no good options .
It has to be a Brexiter and looking through the list , it’s pretty awful . Raab makes my skin crawl , I’d rather Bozo won than him.
Mr. Dickson, things do change. Britain went from loving Nelson's emotional appeal to the Iron Duke's ultimate stiff upper lip in just a couple of decades.
[As a rule, I'm not especially emotive and prefer stoic politicians. Not a May fan, but given the circumstances I'm not going to knock her for being emotional].
> I have been on the Jess Rodham Phillips hype train for while but she won't be the next leader as she is still unforgiven for lack of unswerving loyalty to Corbo.
Jess can do it with her new shorter hair. That is the secret of all successful female leaders around the world. Not sure why: perhaps long hair is blown around too much during open-air speeches and is distracting to television audiences. Thatcher and Merkel; Pelosi and Hillary; Ruth and Nicola in Scotland; now Jess Phillips.
That is also how Theresa May beat Andrea Leadsom last time, come to think of it.
Interesting point!
Jess would make mincemeat of any of the Tory numpties chucking their hats in the ring. Jezza would put them in number 10.
Nothing will happen in the next 2 months politically, plenty of time for Labour to have a new leader too.
That is the Jezza who currently leads in most Westminister VI's and the Jess Phillips who is a member of progress which is mostly where the members of the high polling CUK party come from.
Jess Phillips would bomb electorally, she would put off swathes of voters. Theresa May was often criticised for a lack of personality but at least she wasn't abrasive.
> @StuartDickson said: > > @Nigelb said: > > Just listened again to the May valedictory. > > Anyone else get the strong whiff of barely suppressed anger mixed with the tears, or am I imagining it ? > > I don’t think she did herself, her party or her nation any favours with that performance. > > When did the stiff-upper Wodehousian English lip get replaced by moanin, whinin an greetin? Pull together England. > > Mind you, she is only reflecting modern society: the entire planet seems to be imitating the very worst aspects of American culture. >
> @TheJezziah said: > > @matt said: > > > https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1131919440852004864 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Phillips vs Boris at GE 2022? > > > > > > > > > > > > Wow. That would be something... > > > > > > > > > Perhaps Ms Phillips could explain what she will do other than writing strongly worded messages on Twitter and campaigning for a Jew baiter as head of the Labour Party to become prime minister. > > > > Jess has been characteristically outspoken in her condemnation of anti-semitism in the Labour party. Indeed it seems to be the main reason the arch Corbynites hate and abuse her. > > > > I really like her. She speaks up strongly for British values, is a good media performer, and would do a great job of cleaning up the Labour Party's act. > > Can't imagine a worse leader for Labour to be honest. very few MPs I wouldn't prefer to Jess to lead the Labour party. Maybe the Tory and DUP ones, joint with a few of the Labour and CUK ones. > > Fortunately that nightmare seems a distant prospect. > > Ohh and for clarity Jess "Stab him in the front" and "Fuck off" Diane Abbott Phillips is more disliked for her self obsession and attempt to self promote herself by attacking the party. Not British values I share quite frankly. > > Edit: Alternatively if this is a play to get people voting for 3rd parties it would definitely work on me...
Richard Burgon is by far the worst potential leader.
Either I need a trip to the optician or the table above is unreadable. Are we supposed to be able to read it or are the colours some kind of heat map like those on MOTD?
> Ohh and for clarity Jess "Stab him in the front" and "Fuck off" Diane Abbott Phillips is more disliked for her self obsession and attempt to self promote herself by attacking the party. Not British values I share quite frankly.
>
> Edit: Alternatively if this is a play to get people voting for 3rd parties it would definitely work on me...
Richard Burgon is by far the worst potential leader.
So in a run off with Chris Williamson you'd be backing the Derby man?
> @Morris_Dancer said: > Mr. Dickson, things do change. Britain went from loving Nelson's emotional appeal to the Iron Duke's ultimate stiff upper lip in just a couple of decades. > > [As a rule, I'm not especially emotive and prefer stoic politicians. Not a May fan, but given the circumstances I'm not going to knock her for being emotional]. > > Mr. 67, has Gove said if he's standing?
I think it’s inevitable. I think he’s got a lot of support , and of course it would guarantee a good cabinet position if he didn’t win .
> @ydoethur said: > Richard Burgon is by far the worst potential leader. > > Worse than Ian Lavery, Rebecca Long-Bailey and Laura Pidcock? > > It's a view...
I lack the mathematical training to argue around infinitesimals.
First they complain Theresa May was inflexible. Now they complain Boris U-turns overnight.
Boris is like Trump in that regard: self-contradiction; inconsistency; no underpinning political philosophy.
To be fair to Rory, did he ever complain that May was inflexible?
A few months back I posted that I could never vote for the Tories under Boris, however good the local candidate was. A few right-leaning posters agreed. It'd be interesting to see if they still did.
> @TheJezziah said: > > > > > Ohh and for clarity Jess "Stab him in the front" and "Fuck off" Diane Abbott Phillips is more disliked for her self obsession and attempt to self promote herself by attacking the party. Not British values I share quite frankly. > > > > > > Edit: Alternatively if this is a play to get people voting for 3rd parties it would definitely work on me... > > > > Richard Burgon is by far the worst potential leader. > > So in a run off with Chris Williamson you'd be backing the Derby man?
Good point, is Skelator back? Never saw him as a potential leader, whilst Burgon is being groomed. Burgon has cornered the Grayling award for the ego to competence ratio. A product of nepotism.
> I have been on the Jess Rodham Phillips hype train for while but she won't be the next leader as she is still unforgiven for lack of unswerving loyalty to Corbo.
Jess can do it with her new shorter hair. That is the secret of all successful female leaders around the world. Not sure why: perhaps long hair is blown around too much during open-air speeches and is distracting to television audiences. Thatcher and Merkel; Pelosi and Hillary; Ruth and Nicola in Scotland; now Jess Phillips.
That is also how Theresa May beat Andrea Leadsom last time, come to think of it.
Interesting point!
Jess would make mincemeat of any of the Tory numpties chucking their hats in the ring. Jezza would put them in number 10.
Nothing will happen in the next 2 months politically, plenty of time for Labour to have a new leader too.
That is the Jezza who currently leads in most Westminister VI's and the Jess Phillips who is a member of progress which is mostly where the members of the high polling CUK party come from.
Jess Phillips would bomb electorally, she would put off swathes of voters. Theresa May was often criticised for a lack of personality but at least she wasn't abrasive.
Anyone who would fit right in at Change UK is a certainty to be feted as new Con or Lab leader on here.
> @Foxy said: > One of May's worst faults is her poor judgement of people. She has appointed to cabinet far too many incompetent or lacklustre underlings. Mostly because she doesn't want to listen.
Tbf it was mainly incompetent or lacklustre underlings she had to to choose from.
Good point, is Skelator back? Never saw him as a potential leader, whilst Burgon is being groomed. Burgon has cornered the Grayling award for the ego to competence ratio. A product of nepotism.
Still suspended I'm pretty sure. Burgon is quite a long shot himself, I guess on the basis of having a job in shadow cabinet and being quite young (AFAIK) he could have decent shot at some point in the future but he doesn't seem a realistic shot for the next leader.
> @TheJezziah said: > Good point, is Skelator back? Never saw him as a potential leader, whilst Burgon is being groomed. Burgon has cornered the Grayling award for the ego to competence ratio. A product of nepotism. > > Still suspended I'm pretty sure. Burgon is quite a long shot himself, I guess on the basis of having a job in shadow cabinet and being quite young (AFAIK) he could have decent shot at some point in the future but he doesn't seem a realistic shot for the next leader. > > More likely than Chris Williamson admittedly...
Who on your opinion are likely candidates? I am curious.
> @CarlottaVance said: > Just listened again to the May valedictory. > > Anyone else get the strong whiff of barely suppressed anger mixed with the tears, or am I imagining it ? > > The Mail's 'body language expert' reckoned it was anger, not self pity.
I don't think anger and self pity are either-or conditions.
On May: there's nothing inconsistent in feeling that someone has pursued reprehensible policies incompetently and being sorry for them when they cry in public and are lampooned by our gutter press (yes, I'm looking at you, Daily Telegraph). Assessing policies and feeling sorry for a human are two entirely different things.
There is a Waiting for Godot flavour about our politics these days - a decisive moment always seems to be imminent, and then it isn't. The Euro-election results tomorrow will create a stir whatever they are, but attention will switch to the Tory leadership election within a couple of days. Then when someone wins, the atteniton will switch to the (non-) neotiations coming. Then when the October deadline approaches, it'll be extended. Olympic-quality can-kicking.
Comments
Not that I think for a minute he'd follow through. But I believe it'll be a tactic used to scare anti-Johnson MPs into not keeping him off the ballot.
It'll be done with plausible deniability, but it'll be from Johnson's camp.
> Something I expect to see in the coming weeks: a close Johnson ally will hint darkly that if he is kept off the members' ballot, he will defect to the Brexit Party.
> Not that I think for a minute he'd follow through. But I believe it'll be a tactic used to scare anti-Johnson MPs into not keeping him off the ballot.
> It'll be done with plausible deniability, but it'll be from Johnson's camp.
That might be balanced by other Tory MPs making it clear that they intend to resign the Tory Whip should Boris be elected.
Look at football - Busby or Ferguson and their successors. Look at business - Welch at GE or Rose at RR and their successors. Following a successful individual is hard and most fail. The better position is the two removed from the original success.
Perhaps Ms Phillips could explain what she will do other than writing strongly worded messages on Twitter and campaigning for a Jew baiter as head of the Labour Party to become prime minister.
> > @Richard_Tyndall said:
>
> >
> > Nobody forces these people to take these jobs. And everyone should know the sorts of pressures they entail. Moreover no one forces these people to walk all over others to gain high office. They choose to do that themselves and so are not deserving of sympathy when they fall from power into a life of wealth and security that few people can even begin to dream of.
> >
> > Her tears today were self pity when they should have been of shame.
>
> You have absolutely no evidence for that assertion. You are projecting your own prejudices on the situation. And that says more about you than anything else.
>
> As regards the pressures, there is some truth in that - but until you have lived the life, you cannot really appreciate what it actually entails. You can think you are prepared, but I suspect nothing can adequately prepare you for it. And we need people prepared to step up to the plate.
I have plenty of evidence based on her time as Home Secretary. Moreover I said it on here before she got anywhere near Number 10. The harm she has done to others means she deserves no sympathy at all.
Others think its because she knew it was what voters wanted and politicians, having ignored voters for so long on such matters have now landed us in this Brexit mess.
But it is entertaining watching those who profess sympathy to the plight of others conspicuous selectivity.
I'm not sure which is more repulsive, the gleeful grave dancing or the hypocritical hagiography.
She tried her best, but ultimately wasn't up to it - we'll see if her successor(s) are any better. I'm not holding my breath.
Yes, Theresa May has failed. But it was not for want of trying, and trying again. And then again.
History may not give her credit for attempting what increasingly looks like the impossible: an orderly exit from the EU as expected by 52 per cent of Britons who bothered to vote for Brexit in the referendum.
But she deserves a Victoria Cross for the bravery she has displayed every day fighting for what she believes is right.
A courage and sacrifice none of those sniping at her from the "high ground" of hindsight have ever displayed.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-24/theresa-may-uk-prime-minister-brexit-attempted-impossible-resign/11148776
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-48393548
The man is a total tosser and I can't stand his music, but one person complained and they pull a poster advertising his new album....what about those rock bands that have shown support for say violent guerrilla groups etc? What about rappers who have been drug dealers or murdered others? Metal bands who worship Satan?
Its a massive slippery slope, in which all that will be allowed are posters of the latest Coldplay album.
https://twitter.com/JustinWelby/status/1131878325159366656
> The state of replies to this......
>
>twitter.com/JustinWelby/status/1131878325159366656
Twitter the cesspool of cesspools.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/theresa-may-downfall-inside-story_uk_5ce827c0e4b0a2f9f28ed8fe?utm_hp_ref=uk-politics
> Good political obit of May by Paul Waugh:
>
> https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/theresa-may-downfall-inside-story_uk_5ce827c0e4b0a2f9f28ed8fe?utm_hp_ref=uk-politics
Many felt the lack of people skills really was the reason for her shallow support in parliament. “You’d look round the Cabinet table and realise no one had her back, really. Going to the Cabinet once a week was like going to the dentist. Everyone had their say, but you learned nothing about what she wanted.
“She’d say ‘Thank you Andrea, thank you Karen’ then end the meeting. It was like a really bad self-help group where they all paid a lot of money to a shrink, thinking he was going to have some answers but in fact he just let you do all the talking.”
> Britain seems to be the only country in the entire EU that has transposed EU election law into banning any sort of exit poll before the results start to come in.
>
> Sums us up really.
We followed the E.U laws more closely than others and policed them more harshly.
> > @Pulpstar said:
> > Britain seems to be the only country in the entire EU that has transposed EU election law into banning any sort of exit poll before the results start to come in.
> >
> > Sums us up really.
>
> We followed the E.U laws more closely than others and policed them more harshly.
Yes we're the only ones who follow the rules a lot of the time. The same thing happened with the beef scandal in the 1990s.
The area is represented by 5 SNP MSPs:
Jamie Hepburn (SNP, Cumbernauld and Kilsyth)
Richard Lyle (SNP, Uddingston and Bellshill)
Alex Neil (SNP, Airdrie and Shotts)
Clare Adamson (SNP, Motherwell and Wishaw)
Fulton MacGregor (SNP, Coatbridge and Chryston)
... and three SNP MPs and one Labour MP:
Hugh Gaffney (LAB, Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill)
Marion Fellows (SNP, Motherwell and Wishaw)
Neil Gray (SNP, Airdrie and Shotts)
Stuart McDonald (SNP, Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East)
And a substantial portion of which have been consistent since the start of her premiership.
> > @nunuone said:
> > > @Pulpstar said:
> > > Britain seems to be the only country in the entire EU that has transposed EU election law into banning any sort of exit poll before the results start to come in.
> > >
> > > Sums us up really.
> >
> > We followed the E.U laws more closely than others and policed them more harshly.
>
> Yes we're the only ones who follow the rules a lot of the time. The same thing happened with the beef scandal in the 1990s.
“Follow the rules” is something of a myth, given the way in which governments have frequently exceeded what they require, and then blamed Europe when there’s a backlash.
> > @oxfordsimon said:
>
> > > @Richard_Tyndall said:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> > > Nobody forces these people to take these jobs. And everyone should know the sorts of pressures they entail. Moreover no one forces these people to walk all over others to gain high office. They choose to do that themselves and so are not deserving of sympathy when they fall from power into a life of wealth and security that few people can even begin to dream of.
>
> > >
>
> > > Her tears today were self pity when they should have been of shame.
>
> >
>
> > You have absolutely no evidence for that assertion. You are projecting your own prejudices on the situation. And that says more about you than anything else.
>
> >
>
> > As regards the pressures, there is some truth in that - but until you have lived the life, you cannot really appreciate what it actually entails. You can think you are prepared, but I suspect nothing can adequately prepare you for it. And we need people prepared to step up to the plate.
>
>
>
> I have plenty of evidence based on her time as Home Secretary. Moreover I said it on here before she got anywhere near Number 10. The harm she has done to others means she deserves no sympathy at all.
>
> You are a massive Europhobe, and as you keep on repeating, May was a remainer. It does appear that you appear to be viewing things through the effluent-encrusted prism of Brexit.
Are you supporting her role in the Windrush Scandal and the "Go Back Home" vans?
> I've just seen her speech for the first time. She filled up, turned and marched at speed into Downing Street where I expect she cried. When you feel emotional it's hard not to crack - I did a couple of weeks back during my best man speech for an old friend.
>
>
>
> I've heard lots of negative comments today about her emotion, and seen the photos taken. She may be an utterly shit politician. But she remains a living feeling human who has continued on with her sense of duty long after most people would have quit.
>
>
>
> She deserves our respect.
>
> Well said.
>
> I'm not sure which is more repulsive, the gleeful grave dancing or the hypocritical hagiography.
>
> She tried her best, but ultimately wasn't up to it - we'll see if her successor(s) are any better. I'm not holding my breath.
With respect, people can be critical of political policies and the ways of implementing them with out being disrespectful.
I think that "She tried her best, but ultimately wasn't up to it" is in itself quite damning for a high position.
> > @justin124 said:
> > > @Mortimer said:
> > > > @justin124 said:
> > > > > @HYUFD said:
> > > > > https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/1132000001738117123?s=20
> > > >
> > > > Major was PM for 6.5 years!
> > >
> > > After Thatcher had served more then 11.5
> > >
> > > So, Major was PM for roughly half as long.
> >
> > Nearer 60% but my point is that he was PM for a long time. Not far off Macmillan.
>
> 60% is roughly half....
Also Cameron was not PM for such a long time. 6 Years
> > @Jonathan said:
> > > @HYUFD said:
> > > > @Jonathan said:
> > > > > @HYUFD said:
> > > > > > @rottenborough said:
> > > > > > https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/1132000001738117123
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My objection to this is that Brown was not a lesser figure. A good chunk, maybe the bulk, of New Labour policy and conception was driven by Brown, relentlessly. Even the 'tough on crime' etc etc was his.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Blair would have never amounted to anything if they had not happened to share an office. Discuss.
> > > > >
> > > > > Brown was the worst PM in half a century
> > > >
> > > > After the debacle of the last five years it takes gall and/or blindness to keep saying that.
> > >
> > > It was Brown who overspend and failed to control immigration and let the banks run riot and created the conditions for the populist unrest which produced Corbyn and Brexit in the first plave
> >
> > Total crap.
>
> Nope I would suggest that is pretty accurate. He and May vie for worst PM in the post war era.
Not at all. May's policies and leadership as PM was much much worse than Brown's. A bad point the both shared was how to react when things started going wrong. Ironically the point at which things started going wrong for may was when she called an election, and for brown when he decided not to call an election.
> > @Richard_Tyndall said:
> > > @Jonathan said:
> > > > @HYUFD said:
> > > > > @Jonathan said:
> > > > > > @HYUFD said:
> > > > > > > @rottenborough said:
> > > > > > > https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/1132000001738117123
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My objection to this is that Brown was not a lesser figure. A good chunk, maybe the bulk, of New Labour policy and conception was driven by Brown, relentlessly. Even the 'tough on crime' etc etc was his.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Blair would have never amounted to anything if they had not happened to share an office. Discuss.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brown was the worst PM in half a century
> > > > >
> > > > > After the debacle of the last five years it takes gall and/or blindness to keep saying that.
> > > >
> > > > It was Brown who overspend and failed to control immigration and let the banks run riot and created the conditions for the populist unrest which produced Corbyn and Brexit in the first plave
> > >
> > > Total crap.
> >
> > Nope I would suggest that is pretty accurate. He and May vie for worst PM in the post war era.
>
> Not at all. May's policies and leadership as PM was much much worse than Brown's. A bad point the both shared was how to react when things started going wrong. Ironically the point at which things started going wrong for may was when she called an election, and for brown when he decided not to call an election.
Brown had a Darling to bail him out.
May didn't.
> https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1131919440852004864
>
>
>
>
>
> Phillips vs Boris at GE 2022?
>
>
>
> Wow. That would be something...
>
>
> Perhaps Ms Phillips could explain what she will do other than writing strongly worded messages on Twitter and campaigning for a Jew baiter as head of the Labour Party to become prime minister.
Jess has been characteristically outspoken in her condemnation of anti-semitism in the Labour party. Indeed it seems to be the main reason the arch Corbynites hate and abuse her.
I really like her. She speaks up strongly for British values, is a good media performer, and would do a great job of cleaning up the Labour Party's act.
> > @eristdoof said:
> > > @Richard_Tyndall said:
> > > > @Jonathan said:
> > > > > @HYUFD said:
> > > > > > @Jonathan said:
> > > > > > > @HYUFD said:
> > > > > > > > @rottenborough said:
> > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/1132000001738117123
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > My objection to this is that Brown was not a lesser figure. A good chunk, maybe the bulk, of New Labour policy and conception was driven by Brown, relentlessly. Even the 'tough on crime' etc etc was his.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Blair would have never amounted to anything if they had not happened to share an office. Discuss.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Brown was the worst PM in half a century
> > > > > >
> > > > > > After the debacle of the last five years it takes gall and/or blindness to keep saying that.
> > > > >
> > > > > It was Brown who overspend and failed to control immigration and let the banks run riot and created the conditions for the populist unrest which produced Corbyn and Brexit in the first plave
> > > >
> > > > Total crap.
> > >
> > > Nope I would suggest that is pretty accurate. He and May vie for worst PM in the post war era.
> >
> > Not at all. May's policies and leadership as PM was much much worse than Brown's. A bad point the both shared was how to react when things started going wrong. Ironically the point at which things started going wrong for may was when she called an election, and for brown when he decided not to call an election.
>
> Brown had a Darling to bail him out.
>
> May didn't.
One of May's worst faults is her poor judgement of people. She has appointed to cabinet far too many incompetent or lacklustre underlings. Mostly because she doesn't want to listen.
> > @AndreaParma_82 said:
>
> > Otherwise UK would have imposed to wait to publish results until the last bureau of Guayane close!
>
> >
>
> > You are already the only one waiting for Italy. Waiting for Guyane and co would have been too much for all British anoraks
>
> >
>
> > > @kle4 said:
>
> > > tomorrow it's time for
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> > > The French islands not voting at the same time as mainland France? Logistical issue?
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
> So Andrea, all other countries start counting and releasing results as soon as they finish on Sunday? eg Germany 6pm local, France/Spain 8pm - is that right? UK only country to wait for Italy closing at 11pm local time??!!
>
> But we like late nights and declarations at 3am. Just the way we are.
The result in germany is also much quicker than in the UK. The exit polls are always accurate to with in 1% (1 percentage point to be exact) partly because of the PR half of the voting system. All votes are counted in the polling station itself which means no transport of ballot papers before counting begins and the pile of papers is smaller.
After one hour, enough stations have submitted their results so that the exit poll can be updated to be accurate within 0.2%p.
The candidates themselves have to wait longer to know exactly who has been elected, but the main result is pretty much certain with in an hour of the polls closing.
> > @eristdoof said:
> > > @Richard_Tyndall said:
> > > > @Jonathan said:
> > > > > @HYUFD said:
> > > > > > @Jonathan said:
> > > > > > > @HYUFD said:
> > > > > > > > @rottenborough said:
> > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/MichaelLCrick/status/1132000001738117123
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > My objection to this is that Brown was not a lesser figure. A good chunk, maybe the bulk, of New Labour policy and conception was driven by Brown, relentlessly. Even the 'tough on crime' etc etc was his.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Blair would have never amounted to anything if they had not happened to share an office. Discuss.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Brown was the worst PM in half a century
> > > > > >
> > > > > > After the debacle of the last five years it takes gall and/or blindness to keep saying that.
> > > > >
> > > > > It was Brown who overspend and failed to control immigration and let the banks run riot and created the conditions for the populist unrest which produced Corbyn and Brexit in the first plave
> > > >
> > > > Total crap.
> > >
> > > Nope I would suggest that is pretty accurate. He and May vie for worst PM in the post war era.
> >
> > Not at all. May's policies and leadership as PM was much much worse than Brown's. A bad point the both shared was how to react when things started going wrong. Ironically the point at which things started going wrong for may was when she called an election, and for brown when he decided not to call an election.
>
> Brown had a Darling to bail him out.
>
> May didn't.
Poigniant: May had the option of a strong and experienced chancellor, but chose to antagonise him instead.
F1: not sure whether there'll be a tip, but hope there's rain for qualifying. A mixed up grid would be a very good thing.
> May didn't shed a tear in public for Grenfell, Windrush, Universal Credit or any number of events or harmful Tory policy. She only cracked when she had to leave her highly paid job because she wasn't very good at it. Sympathy? Nah.
She's borderline autistic.
I don't hold public weeping, or not public weeping, against her.
I think I'll come back later.
> What an unpleasant thread.
>
> I think I'll come back later.
+1
Sometimes one just doesn't want to read the nauseating bile some have been writing on here.
> > @twistedfirestopper3 said:
> > May didn't shed a tear in public for Grenfell, Windrush, Universal Credit or any number of events or harmful Tory policy. She only cracked when she had to leave her highly paid job because she wasn't very good at it. Sympathy? Nah.
>
> She's borderline autistic.
>
> I don't hold public weeping, or not public weeping, against her.
I don't think she is. She is just socially awkward and inflexible of mind. We do not need to medicalise her personality.
> > @brendan16 said:
> > > @AndreaParma_82 said:
> >
> > > Otherwise UK would have imposed to wait to publish results until the last bureau of Guayane close!
> >
> > >
> >
> > > You are already the only one waiting for Italy. Waiting for Guyane and co would have been too much for all British anoraks
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > @kle4 said:
> >
> > > > tomorrow it's time for
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > The French islands not voting at the same time as mainland France? Logistical issue?
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > So Andrea, all other countries start counting and releasing results as soon as they finish on Sunday? eg Germany 6pm local, France/Spain 8pm - is that right? UK only country to wait for Italy closing at 11pm local time??!!
> >
> > But we like late nights and declarations at 3am. Just the way we are.
>
> The result in germany is also much quicker than in the UK. The exit polls are always accurate to with in 1% (1 percentage point to be exact) partly because of the PR half of the voting system. All votes are counted in the polling station itself which means no transport of ballot papers before counting begins and the pile of papers is smaller.
>
> After one hour, enough stations have submitted their results so that the exit poll can be updated to be accurate within 0.2%p.
>
> The candidates themselves have to wait longer to know exactly who has been elected, but the main result is pretty much certain with in an hour of the polls closing.
Seems sensible to count the votes in the polling station.
>
> I have been on the Jess Rodham Phillips hype train for while but she won't be the next leader as she is still unforgiven for lack of unswerving loyalty to Corbo.
Jess can do it with her new shorter hair. That is the secret of all successful female leaders around the world. Not sure why: perhaps long hair is blown around too much during open-air speeches and is distracting to television audiences. Thatcher and Merkel; Pelosi and Hillary; Ruth and Nicola in Scotland; now Jess Phillips.
That is also how Theresa May beat Andrea Leadsom last time, come to think of it.
Then again: ALL OF US. It feels like we’re back where we were in July 2016, only with many, many more things broken. Haven’t we already found out what happened when Andrea Leadsom launches a leadership bid? Isn’t she still Brexit’s second-stupidest Andrea (Jenkyns will always edge it)? Don’t we know what Boris Johnson’s like? Why are we doing it again? It’s like there’s some tear in the worst-possible ideas continuum.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/24/theresa-may-tory-downing-street-leadership-contest
> https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1132168923502252033
There's no pleasing some Tories.
First they complain Theresa May was inflexible. Now they complain Boris U-turns overnight.
Boris is like Trump in that regard: self-contradiction; inconsistency; no underpinning political philosophy.
> https://twitter.com/euanmccolm/status/1132170992539844608
There's always three REALLY shit ones....
Tyndall is accusing May of causing harm to others, when his own beloved Brexit is doing much worse to community relations in this country.
> > @oxfordsimon said:
> > The unwillingness of a number of people (on here and elsewhere) to refuse to look beyond the political to the human is dispiriting.
> >
> > We have enough problems getting people of talent to enter public service without further compounding the issue by refusing to see that politicians of every shade are also human beings with emotions, feelings and frailties.
> >
> > Yes, argue about priorities, policies and positions. Question motives.
> >
> > But we have to acknowledge the public service in high political office takes a human toll.
> >
> > For all her failings, Theresa May showed the emotional impact that the job has taken on her. It was a very natural and human reaction - she is not a good enough actor to fake that.
> >
> > For all his failings, Jeremy Corbyn must find the pressures of being LOTO challenging to deal with at times. Can I despise what he stands for and at the same time acknowledge that some of the things he has endured will have come at no little personal, human cost? Of course.
> >
> > Corbyn has failed to live up to his claim to wanting to deliver a kinder, gentler politics. But that doesn't mean the rest of us should stop trying.
> >
> > If we want a functional political class - and I think that is something we all should be able to agree on - we have to allow for some level of human frailty and allow some compassion. We don't have to forgive everything, we don't have to forget it either.
> >
> > But our politicians will never be perfect. We do have to hold them to a higher standard because they seek to govern us. But we also have to acknowledge their humanity from time to time.
> >
> > Not everything is political. Nor should it ever be.
>
> Nobody forces these people to take these jobs. And everyone should know the sorts of pressures they entail. Moreover no one forces these people to walk all over others to gain high office. They choose to do that themselves and so are not deserving of sympathy when they fall from power into a life of wealth and security that few people can even begin to dream of.
>
> Her tears today were self pity when they should have been of shame.
Agreed, Richard - self-pity, and anger.
Anyone else get the strong whiff of barely suppressed anger mixed with the tears, or am I imagining it ?
> > @Dura_Ace said:
>
> >
> > I have been on the Jess Rodham Phillips hype train for while but she won't be the next leader as she is still unforgiven for lack of unswerving loyalty to Corbo.
>
> Jess can do it with her new shorter hair. That is the secret of all successful female leaders around the world. Not sure why: perhaps long hair is blown around too much during open-air speeches and is distracting to television audiences. Thatcher and Merkel; Pelosi and Hillary; Ruth and Nicola in Scotland; now Jess Phillips.
>
> That is also how Theresa May beat Andrea Leadsom last time, come to think of it.
Is the jury still out on Jacinda Arden?
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1132174579525402624
He’s the only Brexiter who could unite the party , he’s not despised in the EU and has at least shown some loyalty to May.
The EU are going to dig their heels in and will never offer Bozo anything , they won’t make him the hero for the Leavers.
Bozo is a one way ticket to a complete Tory implosion.
> Just listened again to the May valedictory.
> Anyone else get the strong whiff of barely suppressed anger mixed with the tears, or am I imagining it ?
Just watched in full for the first time. I think she's angry at herself more than anyone else.
I've never been her greatest fan politically but she's a thoroughly decent person with a strong sense of duty. I feel sorry for her, and wish her and Philip well.
One senior cabinet minister said: “There is all but certain to be a confidence vote to test the new leader has a Commons majority, either at their initiation or because one is called by Jeremy Corbyn. This is likely to be before the summer recess.”
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/it-all-ends-in-tears-for-theresa-may-as-she-resigns-rxt5vdxbf
> If the Tories had any sense they’d go for Michael Gove .
>
> He’s the only Brexiter who could unite the party , he’s not despised in the EU and has at least shown some loyalty to May.
>
> The EU are going to dig their heels in and will never offer Bozo anything , they won’t make him the hero for the Leavers.
>
> Bozo is a one way ticket to a complete Tory implosion.
Agreed. Unfortunately the most passionate Brexiteers may resent his support for May's deal - nevertheless he should be able to win support from Remainers and Leavers.
His performance in the Cameron/May cabinets suggests he could get things other than Brexit done as well.
> > @Nigelb said:
> > Just listened again to the May valedictory.
> > Anyone else get the strong whiff of barely suppressed anger mixed with the tears, or am I imagining it ?
>
> Just watched in full for the first time. I think she's angry at herself more than anyone else.
>
> I've never been her greatest fan politically but she's a thoroughly decent person with a strong sense of duty. I feel sorry for her, and wish her and Philip well.
As I said earlier in the thread, I think her a dreadful PM who did considerable damage to the country.
I nevertheless feel a degree of sympathy for her.
> > @matt said:
>
> > https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1131919440852004864
>
>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Phillips vs Boris at GE 2022?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Wow. That would be something...
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Perhaps Ms Phillips could explain what she will do other than writing strongly worded messages on Twitter and campaigning for a Jew baiter as head of the Labour Party to become prime minister.
>
>
>
> Jess has been characteristically outspoken in her condemnation of anti-semitism in the Labour party. Indeed it seems to be the main reason the arch Corbynites hate and abuse her.
>
>
>
> I really like her. She speaks up strongly for British values, is a good media performer, and would do a great job of cleaning up the Labour Party's act.
>
> I have been on the Jess Rodham Phillips hype train for while but she won't be the next leader as she is still unforgiven for lack of unswerving loyalty to Corbo.
Me too. Jess would be good. Incidentally I don't understand how these arrows work so I don't know who made the comment but the term 'Jew Baiter' is highly offensive. Jewish people are not animals to be 'baited'. Find another way to be offensive to someone you don't like.
> Just listened again to the May valedictory.
> Anyone else get the strong whiff of barely suppressed anger mixed with the tears, or am I imagining it ?
I don’t think she did herself, her party or her nation any favours with that performance.
When did the stiff-upper Wodehousian English lip get replaced by moanin, whinin an greetin? Pull together England.
Mind you, she is only reflecting modern society: the entire planet seems to be imitating the very worst aspects of American culture.
>
> The EU are going to dig their heels in and will never offer Bozo anything , they won’t make him the hero for the Leavers.
>
The EU doesn't care about "heroes or villans" for Brexit. They only want the best for 27 member countries and have dug their heals because the attempted negotiations from the British side go too far.
Why don't people get this?
Fortunately that nightmare seems a distant prospect.
Ohh and for clarity Jess "Stab him in the front" and "Fuck off" Diane Abbott Phillips is more disliked for her self obsession and attempt to self promote herself by attacking the party. Not British values I share quite frankly.
Edit: Alternatively if this is a play to get people voting for 3rd parties it would definitely work on me...
Jess would make mincemeat of any of the Tory numpties chucking their hats in the ring. Jezza would put them in number 10.
Nothing will happen in the next 2 months politically, plenty of time for Labour to have a new leader too.
Meanwhile the clock ticks.
https://twitter.com/kevinhorourke/status/1131959980691808262?s=19
> > @nico67 said:
> > If the Tories had any sense they’d go for Michael Gove .
> >
> > He’s the only Brexiter who could unite the party , he’s not despised in the EU and has at least shown some loyalty to May.
> >
> > The EU are going to dig their heels in and will never offer Bozo anything , they won’t make him the hero for the Leavers.
> >
> > Bozo is a one way ticket to a complete Tory implosion.
>
> Agreed. Unfortunately the most passionate Brexiteers may resent his support for May's deal - nevertheless he should be able to win support from Remainers and Leavers.
>
> His performance in the Cameron/May cabinets suggests he could get things other than Brexit done as well.
I know people think he’s a bit of a snake but aren’t all politicians.
As a Remainer people I suppose expect me to be totally anti Gove . However there are no good options .
It has to be a Brexiter and looking through the list , it’s pretty awful . Raab makes my skin crawl , I’d rather Bozo won than him.
[As a rule, I'm not especially emotive and prefer stoic politicians. Not a May fan, but given the circumstances I'm not going to knock her for being emotional].
Mr. 67, has Gove said if he's standing?
Jess Phillips would bomb electorally, she would put off swathes of voters. Theresa May was often criticised for a lack of personality but at least she wasn't abrasive.
> > @Nigelb said:
> > Just listened again to the May valedictory.
> > Anyone else get the strong whiff of barely suppressed anger mixed with the tears, or am I imagining it ?
>
> I don’t think she did herself, her party or her nation any favours with that performance.
>
> When did the stiff-upper Wodehousian English lip get replaced by moanin, whinin an greetin? Pull together England.
>
> Mind you, she is only reflecting modern society: the entire planet seems to be imitating the very worst aspects of American culture.
>
How very Lady Bracknell of you.
> > @matt said:
>
> > https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1131919440852004864
>
>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Phillips vs Boris at GE 2022?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Wow. That would be something...
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Perhaps Ms Phillips could explain what she will do other than writing strongly worded messages on Twitter and campaigning for a Jew baiter as head of the Labour Party to become prime minister.
>
>
>
> Jess has been characteristically outspoken in her condemnation of anti-semitism in the Labour party. Indeed it seems to be the main reason the arch Corbynites hate and abuse her.
>
>
>
> I really like her. She speaks up strongly for British values, is a good media performer, and would do a great job of cleaning up the Labour Party's act.
>
> Can't imagine a worse leader for Labour to be honest. very few MPs I wouldn't prefer to Jess to lead the Labour party. Maybe the Tory and DUP ones, joint with a few of the Labour and CUK ones.
>
> Fortunately that nightmare seems a distant prospect.
>
> Ohh and for clarity Jess "Stab him in the front" and "Fuck off" Diane Abbott Phillips is more disliked for her self obsession and attempt to self promote herself by attacking the party. Not British values I share quite frankly.
>
> Edit: Alternatively if this is a play to get people voting for 3rd parties it would definitely work on me...
Richard Burgon is by far the worst potential leader.
It's a view...
> Mr. Dickson, things do change. Britain went from loving Nelson's emotional appeal to the Iron Duke's ultimate stiff upper lip in just a couple of decades.
>
> [As a rule, I'm not especially emotive and prefer stoic politicians. Not a May fan, but given the circumstances I'm not going to knock her for being emotional].
>
> Mr. 67, has Gove said if he's standing?
I think it’s inevitable. I think he’s got a lot of support , and of course it would guarantee a good cabinet position if he didn’t win .
> Richard Burgon is by far the worst potential leader.
>
> Worse than Ian Lavery, Rebecca Long-Bailey and Laura Pidcock?
>
> It's a view...
I lack the mathematical training to argue around infinitesimals.
A few months back I posted that I could never vote for the Tories under Boris, however good the local candidate was. A few right-leaning posters agreed. It'd be interesting to see if they still did.
> >
>
> > Ohh and for clarity Jess "Stab him in the front" and "Fuck off" Diane Abbott Phillips is more disliked for her self obsession and attempt to self promote herself by attacking the party. Not British values I share quite frankly.
>
> >
>
> > Edit: Alternatively if this is a play to get people voting for 3rd parties it would definitely work on me...
>
>
>
> Richard Burgon is by far the worst potential leader.
>
> So in a run off with Chris Williamson you'd be backing the Derby man?
Good point, is Skelator back? Never saw him as a potential leader, whilst Burgon is being groomed. Burgon has cornered the Grayling award for the ego to competence ratio. A product of nepotism.
> One of May's worst faults is her poor judgement of people. She has appointed to cabinet far too many incompetent or lacklustre underlings. Mostly because she doesn't want to listen.
Tbf it was mainly incompetent or lacklustre underlings she had to to choose from.
He had some good lines.
"I could write a book about what you don't know."
More likely than Chris Williamson admittedly...
> Good point, is Skelator back? Never saw him as a potential leader, whilst Burgon is being groomed. Burgon has cornered the Grayling award for the ego to competence ratio. A product of nepotism.
>
> Still suspended I'm pretty sure. Burgon is quite a long shot himself, I guess on the basis of having a job in shadow cabinet and being quite young (AFAIK) he could have decent shot at some point in the future but he doesn't seem a realistic shot for the next leader.
>
> More likely than Chris Williamson admittedly...
Who on your opinion are likely candidates? I am curious.
We’re technically in the same party.
https://twitter.com/jessphillips/status/1131866914148495360?s=19
> Just listened again to the May valedictory.
>
> Anyone else get the strong whiff of barely suppressed anger mixed with the tears, or am I imagining it ?
>
> The Mail's 'body language expert' reckoned it was anger, not self pity.
I don't think anger and self pity are either-or conditions.
There is a Waiting for Godot flavour about our politics these days - a decisive moment always seems to be imminent, and then it isn't. The Euro-election results tomorrow will create a stir whatever they are, but attention will switch to the Tory leadership election within a couple of days. Then when someone wins, the atteniton will switch to the (non-) neotiations coming. Then when the October deadline approaches, it'll be extended. Olympic-quality can-kicking.