> @edmundintokyo said: > > @ExiledInScotland said: > > We need steel production capacity for national security purposes. Do we have enough without British steel? > > How many countries are you planning on going to war against simultaneously?
Hopefully none. History shows that sometimes the decision is forced on you whether you like it or not. The key is to be weak enough not to be a threat but strong enough to be a creditable deterrent
Mr. Difficile, impossible. The BBC report on the news last night managed to avoid mentioning Islam or Muslims at all.
It was almost as bizarre as the report from a few weeks ago about women and their newfound freedoms coming under pressure in Afghanistan. An alien visiting Earth would have had no idea the pressure came from Islamic hardliners.
It would be absolutely hilarious if Johnson was to take over from May, and then for him to find his party with just a handful of MPs after an immediate election. He'd be a King with no courtiers, an impotent jester masquerading as a monarch.
It'd probably be disastrous for the country, but I must admit to half-wanting to see the fool get what he wants - only for it all to come crashing down around his ears.
> > - Our Education Secretary and Equalities Minister (do we even have one anymore?) have said diddly squat.
>
>
>
> I think that's Penny Mordaunt double-jobbing. Regardless of who has the title it's meaningless if they won't speak out in defence of Equalities.
>
> It is an utter dereliction of duty. Gay people are being attacked. The protestors are trying to stop gay people being teachers - to their children anyway. This is propagation of hate - and I don’t give a flying stuff that this hate is legitimised by some bloody book or other. Grrr.....
100% agree. The first thing they should do is immediately adopt the No Outsiders scheme as part of the national schools policy and put the full weight of the Government behind it (ignoring for the moment the reasonable response that this Government no longer has any weight). Stop letting all the responsibility for this being carried by a few brave head teachers and make it clear there will be no backing down. Make it cross party as well to make it clear it is the whole of Parliament that is behind this not just one party.
Then start prosecuting parents for refusing to send their kids to school. If you can fine parents for taking their kids to Spain for a week during the school term then you should sure as hell be able to prosecute them for keeping them out of school for this.
A teacher I know had a Muslim kid shout ‘We hate Sikhs’ in RE... she asked him why he said it and he said that’s what they say at home. His mother came to the school and denied it, said he was making it up, as kids do... since then he has had a note excusing him from RE lessons, he reads the Koran in a room in his own instead.
Were it not for the consequences for me and mine I would love to see Farage and co put in charge of Brexit and watch them confronting reality and having to come up with plans and deliver them.
It is easy to destroy. Hard to build. And making an economy and country work is a lot harder than setting up an internet fanbase and hiring a few halls.
Still, I would rather not have the Jacobins in charge. No good will come of it.
A while back @AlistairM wrote a good - if somewhat depressing - header about the parallels between Argentina at the start of the 20th century and Britain now. I hoped that he was being too gloomy. I now rather feel that he is right. We are facing a descent into decline and a turning towards a form of nasty illiberal politics brought to us by spivs. No good ever has - or ever will - come of it.
Even when in charge, if the recent Austrian example is a guide, it is not until they are actually caught on video auctioning policy to foreign actors that the dial shifts.
I would rather not have the Jacobins in charge at all, as it can take quite some time for them to discredit themselves in the eyes of those who put them there.
> @isam said: > > @isam said: > > > https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1131112283474731013 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Five in a row for Leave over Remain > > > > I had no idea that you placed such credence in opinion polls, especially in deductions from opinion polls on matters that are polled more directly. > > I don’t really. Just an observation. > > Although my opinion poll allergy is more aggressive when confronted with mid terms. You’ll remember the criticism I made and examples I gave were all six months to a year before the events, not two days > > Right from the off though I have said the Euro Elections were a proxy referendum, so much more reliable than hypothetical Remain/Leave polls
Reliable in the sense that extremists on both sides will claim victory on Sunday by adding up numbers in a fashion that suits their cause, expecting the other side to collapse, being surprised when they do not, further deepening the divide between the two sides.
Utterly reliable and predictable whilst the third of the country in the middle has their votes and positions excluded from the narrative.
> > - Our Education Secretary and Equalities Minister (do we even have one anymore?) have said diddly squat.
>
>
>
> I think that's Penny Mordaunt double-jobbing. Regardless of who has the title it's meaningless if they won't speak out in defence of Equalities.
>
> It is an utter dereliction of duty. Gay people are being attacked. The protestors are trying to stop gay people being teachers - to their children anyway. This is propagation of hate - and I don’t give a flying stuff that this hate is legitimised by some bloody book or other. Grrr.....
100% agree. The first thing they should do is immediately adopt the No Outsiders scheme as part of the national schools policy and put the full weight of the Government behind it (ignoring for the moment the reasonable response that this Government no longer has any weight). Stop letting all the responsibility for this being carried by a few brave head teachers and make it clear there will be no backing down. Make it cross party as well to make it clear it is the whole of Parliament that is behind this not just one party.
Then start prosecuting parents for refusing to send their kids to school. If you can fine parents for taking their kids to Spain for a week during the school term then you should sure as hell be able to prosecute them for keeping them out of school for this.
Absolutely spot on Richard. Outside the topics of Brexit and rail nationalisation (!) it is notable how often I find myself cheering your posts.
Roger Godsiff is being skinned alive by Victoria Derbyshire on the BBC right now. However I'm deeply uneasy that his views are getting airtime when as we've discussed in this thread all government and responsible agencies are leaving their teachers high and dry on this issue.
> > - Our Education Secretary and Equalities Minister (do we even have one anymore?) have said diddly squat.
>
>
>
> I think that's Penny Mordaunt double-jobbing. Regardless of who has the title it's meaningless if they won't speak out in defence of Equalities.
>
> It is an utter dereliction of duty. Gay people are being attacked. The protestors are trying to stop gay people being teachers - to their children anyway. This is propagation of hate - and I don’t give a flying stuff that this hate is legitimised by some bloody book or other. Grrr.....
100% agree. The first thing they should do is immediately adopt the No Outsiders scheme as part of the national schools policy and put the full weight of the Government behind it (ignoring for the moment the reasonable response that this Government no longer has any weight). Stop letting all the responsibility for this being carried by a few brave head teachers and make it clear there will be no backing down. Make it cross party as well to make it clear it is the whole of Parliament that is behind this not just one party.
Then start prosecuting parents for refusing to send their kids to school. If you can fine parents for taking their kids to Spain for a week during the school term then you should sure as hell be able to prosecute them for keeping them out of school for this.
Agree 100%. But who has the balls to do it? I would also close down any Muslim (or other denominational) school which refuses to teach this. Bigotry needs to be faced down not appeased.
Oh - and prosecute those who are attacking or threatening the teachers.
Just ban state faith schools and have done with it. If parents want to brainwash their children with superstition then let them pay through the nose for it. Certainly taxpayers shouldn't have to stump up the funding for their nonsense.
I'm going to love to see Labourites wailing about British Steel going under.
When the historic steel manufacturer Butterley Engineering went under in 2009 (under a Labour government), there was not a peep from that government or its supporters.
And thus a company that gave us the first steel railway tracks, the St Pancras trainshed, the Falkirk Wheel, Portsmouth's Spinnaker Tower and many other things vanished unlamented.
> > - Our Education Secretary and Equalities Minister (do we even have one anymore?) have said diddly squat.
>
>
>
> I think that's Penny Mordaunt double-jobbing. Regardless of who has the title it's meaningless if they won't speak out in defence of Equalities.
>
> It is an utter dereliction of duty. Gay people are being attacked. The protestors are trying to stop gay people being teachers - to their children anyway. This is propagation of hate - and I don’t give a flying stuff that this hate is legitimised by some bloody book or other. Grrr.....
100% agree. The first thing they should do is immediately adopt the No Outsiders scheme as part of the national schools policy and put the full weight of the Government behind it (ignoring for the moment the reasonable response that this Government no longer has any weight). Stop letting all the responsibility for this being carried by a few brave head teachers and make it clear there will be no backing down. Make it cross party as well to make it clear it is the whole of Parliament that is behind this not just one party.
Then start prosecuting parents for refusing to send their kids to school. If you can fine parents for taking their kids to Spain for a week during the school term then you should sure as hell be able to prosecute them for keeping them out of school for this.
A teacher I know had a Muslim kid shout ‘We hate Sikhs’ in RE... she asked him why he said it and he said that’s what they say at home. His mother came to the school and denied it, said he was making it up, as kids do... since then he has had a note excusing him from RE lessons, he reads the Koran in a room in his own instead.
To be honest though, I don’t think the parents are that wrong. They’re their kids, and if they want to bring them up how they like, why should the state interfere?
> @Cicero said: > British Steel goes under. BTW if you start putting "protective" tariffs on steel, you just made the rest if UK manufacturing uncompetitive, so goodbye JLR and the shipbuilding industry. > > The chickens are coming home to roost. Wile E. Coyote just about to hit the ground. This will be brutal indeed.
> > - Our Education Secretary and Equalities Minister (do we even have one anymore?) have said diddly squat.
>
>
>
> I think that's Penny Mordaunt double-jobbing. Regardless of who has the title it's meaningless if they won't speak out in defence of Equalities.
>
> It is an utter dereliction of duty. Gay people are being attacked. The protestors are trying to stop gay people being teachers - to their children anyway. This is propagation of hate - and I don’t give a flying stuff that this hate is legitimised by some bloody book or other. Grrr.....
100% agree. The first thing they should do is immediately adopt the No Outsiders scheme as part of the national schools policy and put the full weight of the Government behind it (ignoring for the moment the reasonable response that this Government no longer has any weight). Stop letting all the responsibility for this being carried by a few brave head teachers and make it clear there will be no backing down. Make it cross party as well to make it clear it is the whole of Parliament that is behind this not just one party.
Then start prosecuting parents for refusing to send their kids to school. If you can fine parents for taking their kids to Spain for a week during the school term then you should sure as hell be able to prosecute them for keeping them out of school for this.
A teacher I know had a Muslim kid shout ‘We hate Sikhs’ in RE... she asked him why he said it and he said that’s what they say at home. His mother came to the school and denied it, said he was making it up, as kids do... since then he has had a note excusing him from RE lessons, he reads the Koran in a room in his own instead.
To be honest though, I don’t think the parents are that wrong. They’re their kids, and if they want to bring them up how they like, why should the state interfere?
Aren't these schools funded by the state (i.e. taxpayers)?
> @TGOHF said: > > @Cicero said: > > British Steel goes under. BTW if you start putting "protective" tariffs on steel, you just made the rest if UK manufacturing uncompetitive, so goodbye JLR and the shipbuilding industry. > > > > The chickens are coming home to roost. Wile E. Coyote just about to hit the ground. This will be brutal indeed. > > Don't rule out someone buying up the scraps. > > Minus liabilities, pension debts etc... > >
Are the pension pots not in a defined contribution scheme administered by Aegon, Blackrock, Standard life or some such ?
> > - Our Education Secretary and Equalities Minister (do we even have one anymore?) have said diddly squat.
>
>
>
> I think that's Penny Mordaunt double-jobbing. Regardless of who has the title it's meaningless if they won't speak out in defence of Equalities.
>
> It is an utter dereliction of duty. Gay people are being attacked. The protestors are trying to stop gay people being teachers - to their children anyway. This is propagation of hate - and I don’t give a flying stuff that this hate is legitimised by some bloody book or other. Grrr.....
100% agree. The first thing they should do is immediately adopt the No Outsiders scheme as part of the national schools policy and put the full weight of the Government behind it (ignoring for the moment the reasonable response that this Government no longer has any weight). Stop letting all the responsibility for this being carried by a few brave head teachers and make it clear there will be no backing down. Make it cross party as well to make it clear it is the whole of Parliament that is behind this not just one party.
Then start prosecuting parents for refusing to send their kids to school. If you can fine parents for taking their kids to Spain for a week during the school term then you should sure as hell be able to prosecute them for keeping them out of school for this.
A teacher I know had a Muslim kid shout ‘We hate Sikhs’ in RE... she asked him why he said it and he said that’s what they say at home. His mother came to the school and denied it, said he was making it up, as kids do... since then he has had a note excusing him from RE lessons, he reads the Koran in a room in his own instead.
To be honest though, I don’t think the parents are that wrong. They’re their kids, and if they want to bring them up how they like, why should the state interfere?
Aren't these schools funded by the state (i.e. taxpayers)?
Yes, but if the parents want to opt their kids out of things they disagree with that are very important to their family. I don’t see why they can’t
> @edmundintokyo said: > > @ExiledInScotland said: > > We need steel production capacity for national security purposes. Do we have enough without British steel? > > How many countries are you planning on going to war against simultaneously?
> Forget politics for a while. The sun is out, the weather sublime. Just enjoy the garden.
>
> Very wise advice. And my husband has invited me to lunch at a local bistro after his court case. (He is representing someone.) This is unusual. The lunch, I mean. What is he after?
>
> BTW 3 more Lib Dem votes in London from the Cyclefree household.
Perhaps he's gpoing to confess he's voting for the Brexit Party ! :-)
No. He’s a Green voter who is going Lib Dem this time. He told me the other day that he though Brexit’s day was done. After the referendum there was an opportunity to get something through but those who wanted it had missed their chance and going ahead now with no plan was too dangerous.
Generally he thinks all politicians are tossers who should not be given house room.
To be honest though, I don’t think the parents are that wrong. They’re their kids, and if they want to bring them up how they like, why should the state interfere?
I agree on the whole, but as a parent you also have a responsibility to the rest of society to ensure that your child grows up tolerant of others around them. To argue for the right to lie to your child about the existence of people that they are likely to come across at some point in daily life breaks that responsibility in my view.
> @isam said: > > @Cyclefree said: > > > > @Cyclefree said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Our Education Secretary and Equalities Minister (do we even have one anymore?) have said diddly squat. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that's Penny Mordaunt double-jobbing. Regardless of who has the title it's meaningless if they won't speak out in defence of Equalities. > > > > > > It is an utter dereliction of duty. Gay people are being attacked. The protestors are trying to stop gay people being teachers - to their children anyway. This is propagation of hate - and I don’t give a flying stuff that this hate is legitimised by some bloody book or other. Grrr..... > > > > 100% agree. The first thing they should do is immediately adopt the No Outsiders scheme as part of the national schools policy and put the full weight of the Government behind it (ignoring for the moment the reasonable response that this Government no longer has any weight). Stop letting all the responsibility for this being carried by a few brave head teachers and make it clear there will be no backing down. Make it cross party as well to make it clear it is the whole of Parliament that is behind this not just one party. > > > > Then start prosecuting parents for refusing to send their kids to school. If you can fine parents for taking their kids to Spain for a week during the school term then you should sure as hell be able to prosecute them for keeping them out of school for this. > > A teacher I know had a Muslim kid shout ‘We hate Sikhs’ in RE... she asked him why he said it and he said that’s what they say at home. His mother came to the school and denied it, said he was making it up, as kids do... since then he has had a note excusing him from RE lessons, he reads the Koran in a room in his own instead. > > To be honest though, I don’t think the parents are that wrong. They’re their kids, and if they want to bring them up how they like, why should the state interfere?
Because they have to live in a society with everyone else?
How far does this parental power stretch? If a group of parents decide they want to raise a drugs gang and teaches them murder, intimidation and money laundering instead of maths, english and cooking why should the state interfere?
There are minimum standards the state should ensure each of us get, including education, health, respect for others, regardless of their parents.
In a diverse country, immigration needs managing, the failure to challenge some of these ideas over the last 20 years is clearly one of (the many) reason(s) behind Brexit.
So... supposing the EU decides against an extension and the Commons face a choice of leaving with no deal or revocation (assuming it's put to a vote), which way would they jump?
> @Cyclefree said: > x> @Cyclefree said: > > > > > - Our Education Secretary and Equalities Minister (do we even have one anymore?) have said diddly squat. > > > > I think that's Penny Mordaunt double-jobbing. Regardless of who has the title it's meaningless if they won't speak out in defence of Equalities. > > It is an utter dereliction of duty. Gay people are being attacked. The protestors are trying to stop gay people being teachers - to their children anyway. This is propagation of hate - and I don’t give a flying stuff that this hate is legitimised by some bloody book or other. Grrr..... > > Isn't the protest an expression of muslimness? > > Yes. And perfect proof why that stupid definition is stupid and dangerous. It would legitimise Muslim hate against others and stop others criticising it or even pointing it out. > > Bullying and hate and attacks should not get a free pass just because they're organised by someone claiming to do it in the name of religion.
The trouble is that if we are to accept the principle that the victim gets to define the abuse, as with the IHRA antisemitism definition and with racism generally, then why is this case different?
For example, a quick google finds this "perceived by the victim" definition: "A ‘racist incident’ is any incident, including any crime, which is perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by a hostility or prejudice based on a person’s race or perceived race." https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hate-crime-england-and-wales-2017-to-2018
Another tack would be to approach the problem of definition from the other end, which is what I think the IHRA did, and ask what sort of things to known virulent antisemites (or in this case Islamophobes) say, and add that list to the definition. So if racists compare muslim women to letter boxes, then that comparison becomes ipso facto evidence of racism -- worse, it becomes proof when the defence of context is removed.
What makes this worse is the prospect of Saudi-funded faith schools popping up to solve this problem but lining up others, as happened in Pakistan thanks to IMF-imposed cuts.
> @Cicero said: > British Steel goes under. BTW if you start putting "protective" tariffs on steel, you just made the rest if UK manufacturing uncompetitive, so goodbye JLR and the shipbuilding industry. > > The chickens are coming home to roost. Wile E. Coyote just about to hit the ground. This will be brutal indeed.
Scunthorpe voted Leave did it not?
I have limited sympathy for Turkeys that hop in the oven even before Christmas day.
Sweden is 5th favourite in William Hill’s market for next member to leave the EU (Sweden 10/1; Italy FAV 2/1). But that price is very, very poor value considering the polling.
Latest poll of Swedish voters: “Do you think that Sweden should leave the EU?” Yes 14% No 70% D/K 15%
(SIFO/TV4 Nyheter)
The Brexit fiasco has scared the shit out of EU-sceptics in other states.
> - Our Education Secretary and Equalities Minister (do we even have one anymore?) have said diddly squat.
I think that's Penny Mordaunt double-jobbing. Regardless of who has the title it's meaningless if they won't speak out in defence of Equalities.
It is an utter dereliction of duty. Gay people are being attacked. The protestors are trying to stop gay people being teachers - to their children anyway. This is propagation of hate - and I don’t give a flying stuff that this hate is legitimised by some bloody book or other. Grrr.....
Isn't the protest an expression of muslimness?
Yes. And perfect proof why that stupid definition is stupid and dangerous. It would legitimise Muslim hate against others and stop others criticising it or even pointing it out.
Bullying and hate and attacks should not get a free pass just because they're organised by someone claiming to do it in the name of religion.
I don't even think it's a kind of racism. My 'islamophobia' is equally directed at Islamic converts of my own race. And I've never felt an equivalent Buddhaphobia, Hinduphobia or Sikhphobia (and Sikh men are always armed!), even though those religions are as likely to be non-white as Muslims.
> > - Our Education Secretary and Equalities Minister (do we even have one anymore?) have said diddly squat.
>
>
>
> I think that's Penny Mordaunt double-jobbing. Regardless of who has the title it's meaningless if they won't speak out in defence of Equalities.
>
> It is an utter dereliction of duty. Gay people are being attacked. The protestors are trying to stop gay people being teachers - to their children anyway. This is propagation of hate - and I don’t give a flying stuff that this hate is legitimised by some bloody book or other. Grrr.....
100% agree. The first thing they should do is immediately adopt the No Outsiders scheme as part of the national schools policy and put the full weight of the Government behind it (ignoring for the moment the reasonable response that this Government no longer has any weight). Stop letting all the responsibility for this being carried by a few brave head teachers and make it clear there will be no backing down. Make it cross party as well to make it clear it is the whole of Parliament that is behind this not just one party.
Then start prosecuting parents for refusing to send their kids to school. If you can fine parents for taking their kids to Spain for a week during the school term then you should sure as hell be able to prosecute them for keeping them out of school for this.
A teacher I know had a Muslim kid shout ‘We hate Sikhs’ in RE... she asked him why he said it and he said that’s what they say at home. His mother came to the school and denied it, said he was making it up, as kids do... since then he has had a note excusing him from RE lessons, he reads the Koran in a room in his own instead.
To be honest though, I don’t think the parents are that wrong. They’re their kids, and if they want to bring them up how they like, why should the state interfere?
They are NOT being stopped from teaching their children about their faith. They are being stopped from denying their children education and information about things they won’t learn at home. They are - rightly being stopped from teaching their children to hate others. They are being stopped from trying to stop gay people from being teachers. Read my header.
These children are British children and should not be exempt from the obligations of being British which means being taught that homosexuality exists, is normal, not a lifestyle choice and is legal.
> British Steel goes under. BTW if you start putting "protective" tariffs on steel, you just made the rest if UK manufacturing uncompetitive, so goodbye JLR and the shipbuilding industry.
>
> The chickens are coming home to roost. Wile E. Coyote just about to hit the ground. This will be brutal indeed.
Scunthorpe voted Leave did it not?
I have limited sympathy for Turkeys that hop in the oven even before Christmas day.
This is why I'd prefer No Deal.
That's the sort of thing that would make rejoining easier and inevitable.
The plebs get the Brexit they and Farage, Raab, McVey, et al wanted, they cannot complain.
> @williamglenn said: > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > I suggest to the Cabinet that it would be an excellent idea to install David Lidington as caretaker Prime Minister. > > How would that work constitutionally? Would May still be technically the PM, but agreeing to delegate everything to Lidington?
No no no. It's very important that Mr Lidington should actually kiss hands.
We need steel production capacity for national security purposes. Do we have enough without British steel?
How much steel do you think the UK consumes for defence projects? It's very little in absolute terms. All of the value and vulnerability of modern defence projects is the weapons systems, sensors, integration.
Parliament's National Shipbuilding Strategy document and highlighted that by concentrating on low value hull construction the UK is sadly lacking in capabilities around sensors and combat management systems.
> @Morris_Dancer said: > So... supposing the EU decides against an extension and the Commons face a choice of leaving with no deal or revocation (assuming it's put to a vote), which way would they jump?
Revoke does not seem to change much (apart from psychologically), we can still start again and leave if and when we agree a deal without waiting the 2 years. It seems the path of least resistance in a divided parliament as all options would still be on the table.
> @Morris_Dancer said: > Mr. Dickson, indeed. > > Another point I'd raise is that there's no time scale. It could be in a few years. Might not be for decades. Not tempted by that sort of bet. Thank you for your welcome message yesterday .
No, these silly markets are not of interest for serious punters.
> > - Our Education Secretary and Equalities Minister (do we even have one anymore?) have said diddly squat.
> It is an utter dereliction of duty. Gay people are being attacked. The protestors are trying to stop gay people being teachers - to their children anyway. This is propagation of hate - and I don’t give a flying stuff that this hate is legitimised by some bloody book or other. Grrr.....
100% agree. The first thing they should do is immediately adopt the No Outsiders scheme as part of the national schools policy and put the full weight of the Government behind it (ignoring for the moment the reasonable response that this Government no longer has any weight). Stop letting all the responsibility for this being carried by a few brave head teachers and make it clear there will be no backing down. Make it cross party as well to make it clear it is the whole of Parliament that is behind this not just one party.
Then start prosecuting parents for refusing to send their kids to school. If you can fine parents for taking their kids to Spain for a week during the school term then you should sure as hell be able to prosecute them for keeping them out of school for this.
A teacher I know had a Muslim kid shout ‘We hate Sikhs’ in RE... she asked him why he said it and he said that’s what they say at home. His mother came to the school and denied it, said he was making it up, as kids do... since then he has had a note excusing him from RE lessons, he reads the Koran in a room in his own instead.
To be honest though, I don’t think the parents are that wrong. They’re their kids, and if they want to bring them up how they like, why should the state interfere?
Aren't these schools funded by the state (i.e. taxpayers)?
Yes, but if the parents want to opt their kids out of things they disagree with that are very important to their family. I don’t see why they can’t
You are not allowed to opt out of the law. The law says that gay people are equal and have equal rights to everyone else. These parents want to opt out of their children being taught that. Just no. If they want to live in a society which thinks gays are not equal or should be persecuted or killed they can fuck off to Brunei or Saudi Arabia. If you are British you abide by our laws.
Borrowing in April 2019 was £5.8bn, nominally less than 2018 (£5.9bn). April is typically a bad month for the Exchequer.
Borrowing in the 2018/19 financial year was revised down £1.1bn, mainly due to a revision to March (which looked a bit high). The Exchequer now looks to have had a fairly consistently good 2018/19.
The inclusion of the student loan book is due in September, which will have a negative effect on borrowing as (essentially) the non-repayment of loans will be treated as an education subsidy, i.e. a current expense.
> @Cyclefree said: > > @Cyclefree said: > > > > @Cyclefree said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Our Education Secretary and Equalities Minister (do we even have one anymore?) have said diddly squat. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that's Penny Mordaunt double-jobbing. Regardless of who has the title it's meaningless if they won't speak out in defence of Equalities. > > > > > > It is an utter dereliction of duty. Gay people are being attacked. The protestors are trying to stop gay people being teachers - to their children anyway. This is propagation of hate - and I don’t give a flying stuff that this hate is legitimised by some bloody book or other. Grrr..... > > > > 100% agree. The first thing they should do is immediately adopt the No Outsiders scheme as part of the national schools policy and put the full weight of the Government behind it (ignoring for the moment the reasonable response that this Government no longer has any weight). Stop letting all the responsibility for this being carried by a few brave head teachers and make it clear there will be no backing down. Make it cross party as well to make it clear it is the whole of Parliament that is behind this not just one party. > > > > Then start prosecuting parents for refusing to send their kids to school. If you can fine parents for taking their kids to Spain for a week during the school term then you should sure as hell be able to prosecute them for keeping them out of school for this. > > A teacher I know had a Muslim kid shout ‘We hate Sikhs’ in RE... she asked him why he said it and he said that’s what they say at home. His mother came to the school and denied it, said he was making it up, as kids do... since then he has had a note excusing him from RE lessons, he reads the Koran in a room in his own instead. > > To be honest though, I don’t think the parents are that wrong. They’re their kids, and if they want to bring them up how they like, why should the state interfere? > > They are NOT being stopped from teaching their children about their faith. They are being stopped from denying their children education and information about things they won’t learn at home. They are - rightly being stopped from teaching their children to hate others. They are being stopped from trying to stop gay people from being teachers. Read my header. > > These children are British children and should not be exempt from the obligations of being British which means being taught that homosexuality exists, is normal, not a lifestyle choice and is legal.
These parents are snowflakes and have been indulged for too long.
Start dishing out the fines - if they dont like the Uk education system then move to Ireland or France or somewhere.
> @williamglenn said: > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > I suggest to the Cabinet that it would be an excellent idea to install David Lidington as caretaker Prime Minister. > > How would that work constitutionally? Would May still be technically the PM, but agreeing to delegate everything to Lidington?
Simply that the cabinet agrees a single candidate as caretaker PM, who pledges to step down after a fixed period (perhaps in a trendy London restaurant).
Michael Howard is a recent precedent, albeit in Opposition.
British Steel is British Steel in name only. The real one disappeared in the 90s and this version is a bastardised entity that Greybull Capital have been sinking their teeth into for a few years
You are not allowed to opt out of the law. The law says that gay people are equal and have equal rights to everyone else. These parents want to opt out of their children being taught that. Just no.
Agreed.
(edit) Though the water is muddied somewhat by the legislation requiring the particular lessons be taught not coming in to force until September next year: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-47357372
Nevertheless, the arguments put forward against these lessons (eg "not age appropriate") are either bad faith or plain wrong, and many of the means of protest utterly unacceptable, if not illegal.
> @Morris_Dancer said: > So... supposing the EU decides against an extension and the Commons face a choice of leaving with no deal or revocation (assuming it's put to a vote), which way would they jump?
Revoke. With significant long term political consequences.
"The multi-millionaires who bought British Steel for £1 in 2016 and are now seeking financial aid from the government are charging £20m a year in fees and interest from the company."
> @Morris_Dancer said: > So... supposing the EU decides against an extension and the Commons face a choice of leaving with no deal or revocation (assuming it's put to a vote), which way would they jump?
The UK is heavily dependent on business to pay its taxes. Two big ones are business rates and energy taxes. Every time a company such as British Steel goes a large chunk of tax income goes too. Small business service companies pay virtually none of these taxes.
The UK is hollowing out its high street and its industrial core.
> Yes. And perfect proof why that stupid definition is stupid and dangerous. It would legitimise Muslim hate against others and stop others criticising it or even pointing it out.
>
> Bullying and hate and attacks should not get a free pass just because they're organised by someone claiming to do it in the name of religion.
The trouble is that if we are to accept the principle that the victim gets to define the abuse, as with the IHRA antisemitism definition and with racism generally, then why is this case different?
For example, a quick google finds this "perceived by the victim" definition:
"A ‘racist incident’ is any incident, including any crime, which is perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by a hostility or prejudice based on a person’s race or perceived race."
Another tack would be to approach the problem of definition from the other end, which is what I think the IHRA did, and ask what sort of things to known virulent antisemites (or in this case Islamophobes) say, and add that list to the definition. So if racists compare muslim women to letter boxes, then that comparison becomes ipso facto evidence of racism -- worse, it becomes proof when the defence of context is removed.
What makes this worse is the prospect of Saudi-funded faith schools popping up to solve this problem but lining up others, as happened in Pakistan thanks to IMF-imposed cuts.
It’s not racism. Islam is not a race. A religion. One that can be chosen. Except that some Muslims think that one should be killed if one chooses not to be a Muslim. And that very fact is one which ought to be criticised. Not protected. Nothing which is a matter of choice should be off limits. All religions should be open to criticism. Putting them off limits turns us towards theocracy and a Muslim theocracy - as we can see all too clearly in the world around us - is a horrible thing. We have not in the West worked hard over hundreds of years to cast off the governance of the Church to have us being governed by some alternative religious nitwittery.
> @AlastairMeeks said: > > @williamglenn said: > > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > I suggest to the Cabinet that it would be an excellent idea to install David Lidington as caretaker Prime Minister. > > > > How would that work constitutionally? Would May still be technically the PM, but agreeing to delegate everything to Lidington? > > No no no. It's very important that Mr Lidington should actually kiss hands.
Now that a 2nd company has come in with Labour well under 20%, it's amazing that Ladbrokes are still generously offering 10/11 for the Labour UK vote share to be between 10% and 20%. That amounts to a range of about 10.2% to 20.4% in terms of the GB only vote share.
> @TGOHF said: > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > I suggest to the Cabinet that it would be an excellent idea to install David Lidington as caretaker Prime Minister. > > Makes sense as he has zero chance of actually getting the job full time. > > But another weak grey spreadsheet weilding remainer prolongs the drift. >
It would however pay for a very nice winter break...
> @Cyclefree said: > > @williamglenn said: > > > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > > I suggest to the Cabinet that it would be an excellent idea to install David Lidington as caretaker Prime Minister. > > > > > > How would that work constitutionally? Would May still be technically the PM, but agreeing to delegate everything to Lidington? > > > > No no no. It's very important that Mr Lidington should actually kiss hands. > > You will be unbearably smug and a lot richer if he does, won’t you?
The first half is probably a resting state but the second is indeed the case.
> @isam said: > > @Cyclefree said: > > > > @Cyclefree said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Our Education Secretary and Equalities Minister (do we even have one anymore?) have said diddly squat. > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that's Penny Mordaunt double-jobbing. Regardless of who has the title it's meaningless if they won't speak out in defence of Equalities. > > > > > > It is an utter dereliction of duty. Gay people are being attacked. The protestors are trying to stop gay people being teachers - to their children anyway. This is propagation of hate - and I don’t give a flying stuff that this hate is legitimised by some bloody book or other. Grrr..... > > > > 100% agree. The first thing they should do is immediately adopt the No Outsiders scheme as part of the national schools policy and put the full weight of the Government behind it (ignoring for the moment the reasonable response that this Government no longer has any weight). Stop letting all the responsibility for this being carried by a few brave head teachers and make it clear there will be no backing down. Make it cross party as well to make it clear it is the whole of Parliament that is behind this not just one party. > > > > Then start prosecuting parents for refusing to send their kids to school. If you can fine parents for taking their kids to Spain for a week during the school term then you should sure as hell be able to prosecute them for keeping them out of school for this. > > A teacher I know had a Muslim kid shout ‘We hate Sikhs’ in RE... she asked him why he said it and he said that’s what they say at home. His mother came to the school and denied it, said he was making it up, as kids do... since then he has had a note excusing him from RE lessons, he reads the Koran in a room in his own instead. > > To be honest though, I don’t think the parents are that wrong. They’re their kids, and if they want to bring them up how they like, why should the state interfere?
Because they expect the State to provide the schooling.
I am all for keeping the State as small as possible but if you want to enjoy the benefits of the services provided by a democratic state and to live in a community then you have to abide by the rules agreed by the majority in that state.
If you are not willing to abide by those rules and cannot persuade people to agree to change them through the democratic process then go live somewhere else.
There are a very large number of laws and current social norms I disagree with in this country but I do not get to chose to ignore them without expecting consequences.
> > It is an utter dereliction of duty. Gay people are being attacked. The protestors are trying to stop gay people being teachers - to their children anyway. This is propagation of hate - and I don’t give a flying stuff that this hate is legitimised by some bloody book or other. Grrr.....
>
>
>
> 100% agree. The first thing they should do is immediately adopt the No Outsiders scheme as part of the national schools policy and put the full weight of the Government behind it (ignoring for the moment the reasonable response that this Government no longer has any weight). Stop letting all the responsibility for this being carried by a few brave head teachers and make it clear there will be no backing down. Make it cross party as well to make it clear it is the whole of Parliament that is behind this not just one party.
>
>
>
> Then start prosecuting parents for refusing to send their kids to school. If you can fine parents for taking their kids to Spain for a week during the school term then you should sure as hell be able to prosecute them for keeping them out of school for this.
>
> To be honest though, I don’t think the parents are that wrong. They’re their kids, and if they want to bring them up how they like, why should the state interfere?
>
> They are NOT being stopped from teaching their children about their faith. They are being stopped from denying their children education and information about things they won’t learn at home. They are - rightly being stopped from teaching their children to hate others. They are being stopped from trying to stop gay people from being teachers. Read my header.
>
> These children are British children and should not be exempt from the obligations of being British which means being taught that homosexuality exists, is normal, not a lifestyle choice and is legal.
These parents are snowflakes and have been indulged for too long.
Start dishing out the fines - if they dont like the Uk education system then move to Ireland or France or somewhere.
> @Cyclefree said: > > @Cyclefree said: > > > > @Cyclefree said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Our Education Secretary and Equalities Minister (do we even have one anymore?) have said diddly squat. > > > > It is an utter dereliction of duty. Gay people are being attacked. The protestors are trying to stop gay people being teachers - to their children anyway. This is propagation of hate - and I don’t give a flying stuff that this hate is legitimised by some bloody book or other. Grrr..... > > > > 100% agree. The first thing they should do is immediately adopt the No Outsiders scheme as part of the national schools policy and put the full weight of the Government behind it (ignoring for the moment the reasonable response that this Government no longer has any weight). Stop letting all the responsibility for this being carried by a few brave head teachers and make it clear there will be no backing down. Make it cross party as well to make it clear it is the whole of Parliament that is behind this not just one party. > > > > Then start prosecuting parents for refusing to send their kids to school. If you can fine parents for taking their kids to Spain for a week during the school term then you should sure as hell be able to prosecute them for keeping them out of school for this. > > A teacher I know had a Muslim kid shout ‘We hate Sikhs’ in RE... she asked him why he said it and he said that’s what they say at home. His mother came to the school and denied it, said he was making it up, as kids do... since then he has had a note excusing him from RE lessons, he reads the Koran in a room in his own instead. > > To be honest though, I don’t think the parents are that wrong. They’re their kids, and if they want to bring them up how they like, why should the state interfere? > > Aren't these schools funded by the state (i.e. taxpayers)? > > > Yes, but if the parents want to opt their kids out of things they disagree with that are very important to their family. I don’t see why they can’t > > You are not allowed to opt out of the law. The law says that gay people are equal and have equal rights to everyone else. These parents want to opt out of their children being taught that. Just no. If they want to live in a society which thinks gays are not equal or should be persecuted or killed they can fuck off to Brunei or Saudi Arabia. If you are British you abide by our laws.
> @Slackbladder said: > > @Morris_Dancer said: > > So... supposing the EU decides against an extension and the Commons face a choice of leaving with no deal or revocation (assuming it's put to a vote), which way would they jump? > > Revocation. > >
> > It is an utter dereliction of duty. Gay people are being attacked. The protestors are trying to stop gay people being teachers - to their children anyway. This is propagation of hate - and I don’t give a flying stuff that this hate is legitimised by some bloody book or other. Grrr.....
> 100% agree. The first thing they should do is immediately adopt the No Outsiders scheme as part of the national schools policy and put the full weight of the Government behind it (ignoring for the moment the reasonable response that this Government no longer has any weight). Stop letting all the responsibility for this being carried by a few brave head teachers and make it clear there will be no backing down. Make it cross party as well to make it clear it is the whole of Parliament that is behind this not just one party.
> Then start prosecuting parents for refusing to send their kids to school. If you can fine parents for taking their kids to Spain for a week during the school term then you should sure as hell be able to prosecute them for keeping them out of school for this.
>
> A teacher I know had a Muslim kid shout ‘We hate Sikhs’ in RE... she asked him why he said it and he said that’s what they say at home. His mother came to the school and denied it, said he was making it up, as kids do... since then he has had a note excusing him from RE lessons, he reads the Koran in a room in his own instead.
>
> To be honest though, I don’t think the parents are that wrong. They’re their kids, and if they want to bring them up how they like, why should the state interfere?
Because they expect the State to provide the schooling.
I am all for keeping the State as small as possible but if you want to enjoy the benefits of the services provided by a democratic state and to live in a community then you have to abide by the rules agreed by the majority in that state.
If you are not willing to abide by those rules and cannot persuade people to agree to change them through the democratic process then go live somewhere else.
There are a very large number of laws and current social norms I disagree with in this country but I do not get to chose to ignore them without expecting consequences.
I’d go further: no school - whether funded by the state or not - should be allowed to opt out of teaching children what is the law of the land or what is scientific fact.
To be honest though, I don’t think the parents are that wrong. They’re their kids, and if they want to bring them up how they like, why should the state interfere?
I agree on the whole, but as a parent you also have a responsibility to the rest of society to ensure that your child grows up tolerant of others around them. To argue for the right to lie to your child about the existence of people that they are likely to come across at some point in daily life breaks that responsibility in my view.
> > - Our Education Secretary and Equalities Minister (do we even have one anymore?) have said diddly squat.
>
>
>
> I think that's Penny Mordaunt double-jobbing. Regardless of who has the title it's meaningless if they won't speak out in defence of Equalities.
>
> It is an utter dereliction of duty. Gay people are being attacked. The protestors are trying to stop gay people being teachers - to their children anyway. This is propagation of hate - and I don’t give a flying stuff that this hate is legitimised by some bloody book or other. Grrr.....
e ehind this not just one party.
Then start prosecuting parents for refusing to send their kids to school. If you can fine parents for taking their kids to Spain for a week during the school term then you should sure as hell be able to prosecute them for keeping them out of school for this.
To be honest though, I don’t think the parents are that wrong. They’re their kids, and if they want to bring them up how they like, why should the state interfere?
They are NOT being stopped from teaching their children about their faith. They are being stopped from denying their children education and information about things they won’t learn at home. They are - rightly being stopped from teaching their children to hate others. They are being stopped from trying to stop gay people from being teachers. Read my header.
These children are British children and should not be exempt from the obligations of being British which means being taught that homosexuality exists, is normal, not a lifestyle choice and is legal.
It’s called diversity, I thought liberals liked it
The Huawei sanctions fallout is going to be considerable:
ARM memo tells staff to stop working with China’s tech giant https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48363772 ...What is not yet clear is whether ARM is acting on its own interpretation of the US rules, or whether it has been advised by the Commerce Department. "If that interpretation is correct, that’s going to affect every semiconductor company in the world,” remarked analyst Lee Ratliff, from IHS Markit....
> @Tissue_Price said: > > @williamglenn said: > > > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > > I suggest to the Cabinet that it would be an excellent idea to install David Lidington as caretaker Prime Minister. > > > > > > How would that work constitutionally? Would May still be technically the PM, but agreeing to delegate everything to Lidington? > > > > No no no. It's very important that Mr Lidington should actually kiss hands. > > What price would you have this at now?
Very difficult to say. The impression I've got is that something has snapped in Westminster and that the end is nigh. In practice I think, though I'm not sure, that the Conservative party would live with Theresa May announcing her immediate resignation as party leader and undertaking to stay in office only until her successor is found.
But I'd say there has to be at least a 5% chance that the Conservative party want her out now from Number 10 too. If so, there isn't really an alternative to David Lidington. Everyone else is too embedded in one camp or another.
It is quite staggering indictment of our education system that there might be 37% of people (who are not journalists or politicians with a vested interest) who think No Deal is a good thing. Utterly baffling. The only good thing is that it appears there are 39% of people who are voting for parties who are implacably opposed to the madness.
If I were Ruth I'd start by announcing on Monday the Scot Tories are splitting and forming the Scottish Unionist Party, divorce herself from the cancer
You are dreaming that she has an honourable principled bone in her body rather than being a bigger self seeking turd than the rest of them. She will remain suckling at the big trough.
> > - Our Education Secretary and Equalities Minister (do we even have one anymore?) have said diddly squat.
> I think that's Penny Mordaunt double-jobbing. Regardless of who has the title it's meaningless if they won't speak out in defence of Equalities.
>
> It is an utter dereliction of duty. Gay people are being attacked. The protestors are trying to stop gay people being teachers - to their children anyway. This is propagation of hate - and I don’t give a flying stuff that this hate is legitimised by some bloody book or other. Grrr.....
e ehind this not just one party.
Then start prosecuting parents for refusing to send their kids to school. If you can fine parents for taking their kids to Spain for a week during the school term then you should sure as hell be able to prosecute them for keeping them out of school for this.
To be honest though, I don’t think the parents are that wrong. They’re their kids, and if they want to bring them up how they like, why should the state interfere?
They are NOT being stopped from teaching their children about their faith. They are being stopped from denying their children education and information about things they won’t learn at home. They are - rightly being stopped from teaching their children to hate others. They are being stopped from trying to stop gay people from being teachers. Read my header.
These children are British children and should not be exempt from the obligations of being British which means being taught that homosexuality exists, is normal, not a lifestyle choice and is legal.
It’s called diversity, I thought liberals liked it
The law imposes certain minimum standards of tolerance. It is not diversity to accept lawbreaking.
> @Cyclefree said: > > @Cyclefree said: > > > x> @Cyclefree said: > > > Isn't the protest an expression of muslimness? > > > > > > Yes. And perfect proof why that stupid definition is stupid and dangerous. It would legitimise Muslim hate against others and stop others criticising it or even pointing it out. > > > > > > Bullying and hate and attacks should not get a free pass just because they're organised by someone claiming to do it in the name of religion. > > > > The trouble is that if we are to accept the principle that the victim gets to define the abuse, as with the IHRA antisemitism definition and with racism generally, then why is this case different? > > > > For example, a quick google finds this "perceived by the victim" definition: > > "A ‘racist incident’ is any incident, including any crime, which is perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by a hostility or prejudice based on a person’s race or perceived race." > > https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hate-crime-england-and-wales-2017-to-2018 > > > > Another tack would be to approach the problem of definition from the other end, which is what I think the IHRA did, and ask what sort of things to known virulent antisemites (or in this case Islamophobes) say, and add that list to the definition. So if racists compare muslim women to letter boxes, then that comparison becomes ipso facto evidence of racism -- worse, it becomes proof when the defence of context is removed. > > > > What makes this worse is the prospect of Saudi-funded faith schools popping up to solve this problem but lining up others, as happened in Pakistan thanks to IMF-imposed cuts. > > It’s not racism. Islam is not a race. A religion. One that can be chosen. Except that some Muslims think that one should be killed if one chooses not to be a Muslim. And that very fact is one which ought to be criticised. Not protected. Nothing which is a matter of choice should be off limits. All religions should be open to criticism. Putting them off limits turns us towards theocracy and a Muslim theocracy - as we can see all too clearly in the world around us - is a horrible thing. We have not in the West worked hard over hundreds of years to cast off the governance of the Church to have us being governed by some alternative religious nitwittery.
That is all well and good but I was simply pointing out a consequence of accepting victims' definitions, which is what we (and HMG) do in other cases.
Very difficult to say. The impression I've got is that something has snapped in Westminster and that the end is nigh. In practice I think, though I'm not sure, that the Conservative party would live with Theresa May announcing her immediate resignation as party leader and undertaking to stay in office only until her successor is found.
But I'd say there has to be at least a 5% chance that the Conservative party want her out now from Number 10 too. If so, there isn't really an alternative to David Lidington. Everyone else is too embedded in one camp or another.
You've persuaded me to take the £20 @ 60. Someone else can have the £25 down to 48.
> > > - Our Education Secretary and Equalities Minister (do we even have one anymore?) have said diddly squat.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I think that's Penny Mordaunt double-jobbing. Regardless of who has the title it's meaningless if they won't speak out in defence of Equalities.
>
> >
>
> > It is an utter dereliction of duty. Gay people are being attacked. The protestors are trying to stop gay people being teachers - to their children anyway. This is propagation of hate - and I don’t give a flying stuff that this hate is legitimised by some bloody book or other. Grrr.....
>
>
>
> 100% agree. The first thing they should do is immediately adopt the No Outsiders scheme as part of the national schools policy and put the full weight of the Government behind it (ignoring for the moment the reasonable response that this Government no longer has any weight). Stop letting all the responsibility for this being carried by a few brave head teachers and make it clear there will be no backing down. Make it cross party as well to make it clear it is the whole of Parliament that is behind this not just one party.
>
>
>
> >
> To be honest though, I don’t think the parents are that wrong. They’re their kids, and if they want to bring them up how they like, why should the state interfere?
Because they expect the State to provide the schooling.
I am all for keeping the State as small as possible but if you want to enjoy the benefits of the services provided by a democratic state and to live in a community then you have to abide by the rules agreed by the majority in that state.
If you are not willing to abide by those rules and cannot persuade people to agree to change them through the democratic process then go live somewhere else.
There are a very large number of laws and current social norms I disagree with in this country but I do not get to chose to ignore them without expecting consequences.
I think they should be allowed to pull their kids from lessons they disagreee with, not stop the lessons being taught.
> @AlastairMeeks said: > > @Tissue_Price said: > > > @williamglenn said: > > > > > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > > > > I suggest to the Cabinet that it would be an excellent idea to install David Lidington as caretaker Prime Minister. > > > > > > > > > > How would that work constitutionally? Would May still be technically the PM, but agreeing to delegate everything to Lidington? > > > > > > > > No no no. It's very important that Mr Lidington should actually kiss hands. > > > > What price would you have this at now? > > Very difficult to say. The impression I've got is that something has snapped in Westminster and that the end is nigh. In practice I think, though I'm not sure, that the Conservative party would live with Theresa May announcing her immediate resignation as party leader and undertaking to stay in office only until her successor is found. > > But I'd say there has to be at least a 5% chance that the Conservative party want her out now from Number 10 too. If so, there isn't really an alternative to David Lidington. Everyone else is too embedded in one camp or another.
> @isam said: I think they should be allowed to pull their kids from lessons they disagreee with, not stop the lessons being taught.
What if they believe the world was created in 7 days 4k odd years ago and is flat? Should they be allowed to withdraw their kids from history & geography lessons?
While one does not seek the office, one has pledged oneself to the service of one's country. And if one's friends were to persuade one that that was the best way one could serve, one might reluctantly have to accept the responsibility, whatever one's own private wishes might be.
> @AlastairMeeks said: > > @Tissue_Price said: > > > @williamglenn said: > > > > > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > > > > I suggest to the Cabinet that it would be an excellent idea to install David Lidington as caretaker Prime Minister. > > > > > > > > > > How would that work constitutionally? Would May still be technically the PM, but agreeing to delegate everything to Lidington? > > > > > > > > No no no. It's very important that Mr Lidington should actually kiss hands. > > > > What price would you have this at now? > > Very difficult to say. The impression I've got is that something has snapped in Westminster and that the end is nigh. In practice I think, though I'm not sure, that the Conservative party would live with Theresa May announcing her immediate resignation as party leader and undertaking to stay in office only until her successor is found. > > But I'd say there has to be at least a 5% chance that the Conservative party want her out now from Number 10 too. If so, there isn't really an alternative to David Lidington. Everyone else is too embedded in one camp or another.
Hammond would be better than Lidington. The Chancellor is older than Lidington and on record as saying he does not covet the job, so younger PM-wannabes can be sure he will step down when agreed. Hammond has been broadly right on Europe so far, and has a good story on the economy, and has the demeanour to calm the situation rather than stir up the headbangers on either side. And I'd win more.
Sweden is 5th favourite in William Hill’s market for next member to leave the EU (Sweden 10/1; Italy FAV 2/1). But that price is very, very poor value considering the polling.
Latest poll of Swedish voters:
“Do you think that Sweden should leave the EU?”
Yes 14%
No 70%
D/K 15%
(SIFO/TV4 Nyheter)
The Brexit fiasco has scared the shit out of EU-sceptics in other states.
It will be a salutary lesson for all of them , for years to come
Mr. Divvie, not sure if it was true or not, but when I was at school I heard that if a kid answered a physics question on the origin of the universe with something about God creating it (rather than the Big Bang theory) then it would be judged correct.
> > > - Our Education Secretary and Equalities Minister (do we even have one anymore?) have said diddly squat.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I think that's Penny Mordaunt double-jobbing. Regardless of who has the title it's meaningless if they won't speak out in defence of Equalities.
>
> >
>
> > It is an utter dereliction of duty. Gay people are being attacked. The protestors are trying to stop gay people being teachers - to their children anyway. This is propagation of hate - and I don’t give a flying stuff that this hate is legitimised by some bloody book or other. Grrr.....
>
>
>
> 100% agree. The first thing they should do is immediately adopt the No Outsiders scheme as part of the national schools policy and put the full weight of the Government behind it (ignoring for the moment the reasonable response that this Government no longer has any weight). Stop letting all the responsibility for this being carried by a few brave head teachers and make it clear there will be no backing down. Make it cross party as well to make it clear it is the whole of Parliament that is behind this not just one party.
>
>
>
> >
> To be honest though, I don’t think the parents are that wrong. They’re their kids, and if they want to bring them up how they like, why should the state interfere?
Because they expect the State to provide the schooling.
I am all for keeping the State as small as possible but if you want to enjoy the benefits of the services provided by a democratic state and to live in a community then you have to abide by the rules agreed by the majority in that state.
If you are not willing to abide by those rules and cannot persuade people to agree to change them through the democratic process then go live somewhere else.
I think they should be allowed to pull their kids from lessons they disagreee with, not stop the lessons being taught.
they should be forced to accept the curriculum and get on with it
Mr. Divvie, not sure if it was true or not, but when I was at school I heard that if a kid answered a physics question on the origin of the universe with something about God creating it (rather than the Big Bang theory) then it would be judged correct.
The Big Bang Theory does not explain the origin of the universe, so technically God creating it is at least a valid answer.
The Huawei sanctions fallout is going to be considerable:
ARM memo tells staff to stop working with China’s tech giant https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48363772 ...What is not yet clear is whether ARM is acting on its own interpretation of the US rules, or whether it has been advised by the Commerce Department. "If that interpretation is correct, that’s going to affect every semiconductor company in the world,” remarked analyst Lee Ratliff, from IHS Markit....
Be fun if China call in their debts and stop lending to USA
I think they should be allowed to pull their kids from lessons they disagreee with, not stop the lessons being taught.
No. That is to negate the whole point of education, which is to teach children what they cannot get at home. What next: pulling children out of maths because I don’t agree that 2+2 =4? Or pulling children out of class because a Muslim teacher is teaching French?
> @DecrepitJohnL said: > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > @Tissue_Price said: > > > > @williamglenn said: > > > > > > > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > > > > > > I suggest to the Cabinet that it would be an excellent idea to install David Lidington as caretaker Prime Minister. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How would that work constitutionally? Would May still be technically the PM, but agreeing to delegate everything to Lidington? > > > > > > > > > > > > No no no. It's very important that Mr Lidington should actually kiss hands. > > > > > > What price would you have this at now? > > > > Very difficult to say. The impression I've got is that something has snapped in Westminster and that the end is nigh. In practice I think, though I'm not sure, that the Conservative party would live with Theresa May announcing her immediate resignation as party leader and undertaking to stay in office only until her successor is found. > > > > But I'd say there has to be at least a 5% chance that the Conservative party want her out now from Number 10 too. If so, there isn't really an alternative to David Lidington. Everyone else is too embedded in one camp or another. > > Hammond would be better than Lidington. The Chancellor is older than Lidington and on record as saying he does not covet the job, so younger PM-wannabes can be sure he will step down when agreed. Hammond has been broadly right on Europe so far, and has a good story on the economy, and has the demeanour to calm the situation rather than stir up the headbangers on either side. And I'd win more.
Being broadly right on Europe disqualifies him in the eyes of most Tories. They want a headbanger and they want one now.
> @isam said: > > @isam said: > > > > @Cyclefree said: > > > > > > > > @Cyclefree said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Our Education Secretary and Equalities Minister (do we even have one anymore?) have said diddly squat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that's Penny Mordaunt double-jobbing. Regardless of who has the title it's meaningless if they won't speak out in defence of Equalities. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is an utter dereliction of duty. Gay people are being attacked. The protestors are trying to stop gay people being teachers - to their children anyway. This is propagation of hate - and I don’t give a flying stuff that this hate is legitimised by some bloody book or other. Grrr..... > > > > > > > > > > > > 100% agree. The first thing they should do is immediately adopt the No Outsiders scheme as part of the national schools policy and put the full weight of the Government behind it (ignoring for the moment the reasonable response that this Government no longer has any weight). Stop letting all the responsibility for this being carried by a few brave head teachers and make it clear there will be no backing down. Make it cross party as well to make it clear it is the whole of Parliament that is behind this not just one party. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To be honest though, I don’t think the parents are that wrong. They’re their kids, and if they want to bring them up how they like, why should the state interfere? > > > > Because they expect the State to provide the schooling. > > > > I am all for keeping the State as small as possible but if you want to enjoy the benefits of the services provided by a democratic state and to live in a community then you have to abide by the rules agreed by the majority in that state. > > > > If you are not willing to abide by those rules and cannot persuade people to agree to change them through the democratic process then go live somewhere else. > > > > There are a very large number of laws and current social norms I disagree with in this country but I do not get to chose to ignore them without expecting consequences. > > I think they should be allowed to pull their kids from lessons they disagreee with, not stop the lessons being taught.
People should not be allowed to opt out of legal requirements because they disagree with them. I disagree with the current speeding laws and the current tax policies but would fully expect to be prosecuted if I was driving at 85 on a motorway or did not pay my tax.
> @malcolmg said: > The Huawei sanctions fallout is going to be considerable: > > ARM memo tells staff to stop working with China’s tech giant > https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48363772 > ...What is not yet clear is whether ARM is acting on its own interpretation of the US rules, or whether it has been advised by the Commerce Department. > "If that interpretation is correct, that’s going to affect every semiconductor company in the world,” remarked analyst Lee Ratliff, from IHS Markit.... > > Be fun if China call in their debts and stop lending to USA
> @Cyclefree said: > > @Cyclefree said: > > > I was very impressed by how Jess Phillips took them on face to face. > > > > > > Has Corbyn had anything to say on the matter? > > > > > > https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-48347769 > > > > > > No-one senior has had anything to say on the matter. Too bloody scared and feeble. > > > > > > - Our Education Secretary and Equalities Minister (do we even have one anymore?) have said diddly squat. > > > - The teachers and the schools have been left unsupported. > > > - Those in charge have been afraid of bullies because these particular bullies are Muslim (now joined by some of the dimmer Christian sects and Orthodox Jews) and taking on Muslim bullies is fraught with danger: accusations of Islamophobia at best and quite a lot worse at worst. > > > - Those in charge talk about values but do not understand them or fight for them or protect them. > > > - They think (wrongly) that they are obliged to respect that which is not worthy of respect. > > > - They tell themselves one of the biggest lies around: that we are all basically the same and believe the same things, when this is not so. You are either for LGBQT rights or not; you either believe that they are equal or you do not and you cannot just wish those differences away by wittering about "tolerance" and "diversity" and all the other banal Kumbaya nonsense that passes for too much public debate on difficult topics these days. > > > - They are frightened into thinking that criticising Islam is Islamophobic and must not be done. > > > - They do not fundamentally care about the children who are being deprived of education and help and advice. These are Muslim children you see and somehow not worthy of being taught the same as all British children and being expected to abide by the standards of everyone else. The racism of low expectations. > > > > > > Oh, Christ! It is all too depressing. I could go on. I have done. See here. http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/03/21/rendering-unto-caesar/ > > > > Forget politics for a while. The sun is out, the weather sublime. Just enjoy the garden. > > Very wise advice. And my husband has invited me to lunch at a local bistro after his court case. (He is representing someone.) This is unusual. The lunch, I mean. What is he after? > > BTW 3 more Lib Dem votes in London from the Cyclefree household.
> @malcolmg said: > The Huawei sanctions fallout is going to be considerable: > > ARM memo tells staff to stop working with China’s tech giant > https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48363772 > ...What is not yet clear is whether ARM is acting on its own interpretation of the US rules, or whether it has been advised by the Commerce Department. > "If that interpretation is correct, that’s going to affect every semiconductor company in the world,” remarked analyst Lee Ratliff, from IHS Markit.... > > Be fun if China call in their debts and stop lending to USA
China have lent enough money that the problem is now theirs, not the USA's, as the current 'trade war' illustrates.
> @anothernick said: > > @DecrepitJohnL said: > > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > > @Tissue_Price said: > > > > > @williamglenn said: > > > > > > > > > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > > > > > > > > I suggest to the Cabinet that it would be an excellent idea to install David Lidington as caretaker Prime Minister. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How would that work constitutionally? Would May still be technically the PM, but agreeing to delegate everything to Lidington? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No no no. It's very important that Mr Lidington should actually kiss hands. > > > > > > > > What price would you have this at now? > > > > > > Very difficult to say. The impression I've got is that something has snapped in Westminster and that the end is nigh. In practice I think, though I'm not sure, that the Conservative party would live with Theresa May announcing her immediate resignation as party leader and undertaking to stay in office only until her successor is found. > > > > > > But I'd say there has to be at least a 5% chance that the Conservative party want her out now from Number 10 too. If so, there isn't really an alternative to David Lidington. Everyone else is too embedded in one camp or another. > > > > Hammond would be better than Lidington. The Chancellor is older than Lidington and on record as saying he does not covet the job, so younger PM-wannabes can be sure he will step down when agreed. Hammond has been broadly right on Europe so far, and has a good story on the economy, and has the demeanour to calm the situation rather than stir up the headbangers on either side. And I'd win more. > > Being broadly right on Europe disqualifies him in the eyes of most Tories. They want a headbanger and they want one now.
Most Tories? Who cares about most Tories? The whole point of a caretaker is that most Tories won't get a vote. No-one gets a vote: it is a stitch-up to agree a single candidate. As with Michael Howard. They will be bought off with the promise of a vote in a year's time (or however long is agreed).
> ...What is not yet clear is whether ARM is acting on its own interpretation of the US rules, or whether it has been advised by the Commerce Department.
> "If that interpretation is correct, that’s going to affect every semiconductor company in the world,” remarked analyst Lee Ratliff, from IHS Markit....
>
> Be fun if China call in their debts and stop lending to USA
> @Richard_Tyndall said: > > @isam said: > > > > I think they should be allowed to pull their kids from lessons they disagreee with, not stop the lessons being taught. > > People should not be allowed to opt out of legal requirements because they disagree with them. I disagree with the current speeding laws and the current tax policies but would fully expect to be prosecuted if I was driving at 85 on a motorway or did not pay my tax.
There were kids at my primary school who were Jehovah's Witnesses and they were excused from assembly due to the religious nature of some assemblies.
There's a large minority of Tory MPs that I would not take a message like that seriously, as they've said the same many times before. If the text were from Amber Rudd then I might react differently.
> ...What is not yet clear is whether ARM is acting on its own interpretation of the US rules, or whether it has been advised by the Commerce Department.
> "If that interpretation is correct, that’s going to affect every semiconductor company in the world,” remarked analyst Lee Ratliff, from IHS Markit....
>
> Be fun if China call in their debts and stop lending to USA
You have an odd idea of fun...
It was said tongue in cheek
As was my reply, malcolm. Unlike some, I've never been under the misapprehension you are an idiot.
https://onezero.medium.com/the-dark-forest-theory-of-the-internet-7dc3e68a7cb1 ...When I went offline for reasons of personal wellness and productivity, I stopped going to the bowling alleys altogether. But lately, I’ve started to question that decision. I’m reminded of what happened in the 1970s when the hippies — bruised and bloodied from the culture wars of the ‘60s — retreated into self-help, wellness, and personal development, as Adam Curtis documents in his series The Century of Self. While they turned inward, the winners of the ‘60s culture wars took society’s reins. A focus on personal wellness created an unintended side effect: a retreat from the public arena, and a shift in the distribution of power ever since...
Comments
> > @ExiledInScotland said:
> > We need steel production capacity for national security purposes. Do we have enough without British steel?
>
> How many countries are you planning on going to war against simultaneously?
Hopefully none. History shows that sometimes the decision is forced on you whether you like it or not. The key is to be weak enough not to be a threat but strong enough to be a creditable deterrent
It was almost as bizarre as the report from a few weeks ago about women and their newfound freedoms coming under pressure in Afghanistan. An alien visiting Earth would have had no idea the pressure came from Islamic hardliners.
It'd probably be disastrous for the country, but I must admit to half-wanting to see the fool get what he wants - only for it all to come crashing down around his ears.
I would rather not have the Jacobins in charge at all, as it can take quite some time for them to discredit themselves in the eyes of those who put them there.
> > @isam said:
>
> > https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1131112283474731013
>
>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Five in a row for Leave over Remain
>
>
>
> I had no idea that you placed such credence in opinion polls, especially in deductions from opinion polls on matters that are polled more directly.
>
> I don’t really. Just an observation.
>
> Although my opinion poll allergy is more aggressive when confronted with mid terms. You’ll remember the criticism I made and examples I gave were all six months to a year before the events, not two days
>
> Right from the off though I have said the Euro Elections were a proxy referendum, so much more reliable than hypothetical Remain/Leave polls
Reliable in the sense that extremists on both sides will claim victory on Sunday by adding up numbers in a fashion that suits their cause, expecting the other side to collapse, being surprised when they do not, further deepening the divide between the two sides.
Utterly reliable and predictable whilst the third of the country in the middle has their votes and positions excluded from the narrative.
When the historic steel manufacturer Butterley Engineering went under in 2009 (under a Labour government), there was not a peep from that government or its supporters.
And thus a company that gave us the first steel railway tracks, the St Pancras trainshed, the Falkirk Wheel, Portsmouth's Spinnaker Tower and many other things vanished unlamented.
> British Steel goes under. BTW if you start putting "protective" tariffs on steel, you just made the rest if UK manufacturing uncompetitive, so goodbye JLR and the shipbuilding industry.
>
> The chickens are coming home to roost. Wile E. Coyote just about to hit the ground. This will be brutal indeed.
Don't rule out someone buying up the scraps.
Minus liabilities, pension debts etc...
> > @Cicero said:
> > British Steel goes under. BTW if you start putting "protective" tariffs on steel, you just made the rest if UK manufacturing uncompetitive, so goodbye JLR and the shipbuilding industry.
> >
> > The chickens are coming home to roost. Wile E. Coyote just about to hit the ground. This will be brutal indeed.
>
> Don't rule out someone buying up the scraps.
>
> Minus liabilities, pension debts etc...
>
>
Are the pension pots not in a defined contribution scheme administered by Aegon, Blackrock, Standard life or some such ?
> > @ExiledInScotland said:
> > We need steel production capacity for national security purposes. Do we have enough without British steel?
>
> How many countries are you planning on going to war against simultaneously?
Will the EU count as 1 or 27?
Generally he thinks all politicians are tossers who should not be given house room.
> > @Cyclefree said:
>
> > > @Cyclefree said:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > - Our Education Secretary and Equalities Minister (do we even have one anymore?) have said diddly squat.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I think that's Penny Mordaunt double-jobbing. Regardless of who has the title it's meaningless if they won't speak out in defence of Equalities.
>
> >
>
> > It is an utter dereliction of duty. Gay people are being attacked. The protestors are trying to stop gay people being teachers - to their children anyway. This is propagation of hate - and I don’t give a flying stuff that this hate is legitimised by some bloody book or other. Grrr.....
>
>
>
> 100% agree. The first thing they should do is immediately adopt the No Outsiders scheme as part of the national schools policy and put the full weight of the Government behind it (ignoring for the moment the reasonable response that this Government no longer has any weight). Stop letting all the responsibility for this being carried by a few brave head teachers and make it clear there will be no backing down. Make it cross party as well to make it clear it is the whole of Parliament that is behind this not just one party.
>
>
>
> Then start prosecuting parents for refusing to send their kids to school. If you can fine parents for taking their kids to Spain for a week during the school term then you should sure as hell be able to prosecute them for keeping them out of school for this.
>
> A teacher I know had a Muslim kid shout ‘We hate Sikhs’ in RE... she asked him why he said it and he said that’s what they say at home. His mother came to the school and denied it, said he was making it up, as kids do... since then he has had a note excusing him from RE lessons, he reads the Koran in a room in his own instead.
>
> To be honest though, I don’t think the parents are that wrong. They’re their kids, and if they want to bring them up how they like, why should the state interfere?
Because they have to live in a society with everyone else?
How far does this parental power stretch? If a group of parents decide they want to raise a drugs gang and teaches them murder, intimidation and money laundering instead of maths, english and cooking why should the state interfere?
There are minimum standards the state should ensure each of us get, including education, health, respect for others, regardless of their parents.
In a diverse country, immigration needs managing, the failure to challenge some of these ideas over the last 20 years is clearly one of (the many) reason(s) behind Brexit.
> x> @Cyclefree said:
>
>
>
> > - Our Education Secretary and Equalities Minister (do we even have one anymore?) have said diddly squat.
>
>
>
> I think that's Penny Mordaunt double-jobbing. Regardless of who has the title it's meaningless if they won't speak out in defence of Equalities.
>
> It is an utter dereliction of duty. Gay people are being attacked. The protestors are trying to stop gay people being teachers - to their children anyway. This is propagation of hate - and I don’t give a flying stuff that this hate is legitimised by some bloody book or other. Grrr.....
>
> Isn't the protest an expression of muslimness?
>
> Yes. And perfect proof why that stupid definition is stupid and dangerous. It would legitimise Muslim hate against others and stop others criticising it or even pointing it out.
>
> Bullying and hate and attacks should not get a free pass just because they're organised by someone claiming to do it in the name of religion.
The trouble is that if we are to accept the principle that the victim gets to define the abuse, as with the IHRA antisemitism definition and with racism generally, then why is this case different?
For example, a quick google finds this "perceived by the victim" definition:
"A ‘racist incident’ is any incident, including any crime, which is perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by a hostility or prejudice based on a person’s race or perceived race."
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hate-crime-england-and-wales-2017-to-2018
Another tack would be to approach the problem of definition from the other end, which is what I think the IHRA did, and ask what sort of things to known virulent antisemites (or in this case Islamophobes) say, and add that list to the definition. So if racists compare muslim women to letter boxes, then that comparison becomes ipso facto evidence of racism -- worse, it becomes proof when the defence of context is removed.
What makes this worse is the prospect of Saudi-funded faith schools popping up to solve this problem but lining up others, as happened in Pakistan thanks to IMF-imposed cuts.
> British Steel goes under. BTW if you start putting "protective" tariffs on steel, you just made the rest if UK manufacturing uncompetitive, so goodbye JLR and the shipbuilding industry.
>
> The chickens are coming home to roost. Wile E. Coyote just about to hit the ground. This will be brutal indeed.
Scunthorpe voted Leave did it not?
I have limited sympathy for Turkeys that hop in the oven even before Christmas day.
There will be a how you voted on the day poll by Populus poll though, I'd expect YouGov to do something similar as well.
Latest poll of Swedish voters:
“Do you think that Sweden should leave the EU?”
Yes 14%
No 70%
D/K 15%
(SIFO/TV4 Nyheter)
The Brexit fiasco has scared the shit out of EU-sceptics in other states.
These children are British children and should not be exempt from the obligations of being British which means being taught that homosexuality exists, is normal, not a lifestyle choice and is legal.
Another point I'd raise is that there's no time scale. It could be in a few years. Might not be for decades. Not tempted by that sort of bet.
That's the sort of thing that would make rejoining easier and inevitable.
The plebs get the Brexit they and Farage, Raab, McVey, et al wanted, they cannot complain.
> I suggest to the Cabinet that it would be an excellent idea to install David Lidington as caretaker Prime Minister.
How would that work constitutionally? Would May still be technically the PM, but agreeing to delegate everything to Lidington?
> > @AlastairMeeks said:
> > I suggest to the Cabinet that it would be an excellent idea to install David Lidington as caretaker Prime Minister.
>
> How would that work constitutionally? Would May still be technically the PM, but agreeing to delegate everything to Lidington?
No no no. It's very important that Mr Lidington should actually kiss hands.
Parliament's National Shipbuilding Strategy document and highlighted that by concentrating on low value hull construction the UK is sadly lacking in capabilities around sensors and combat management systems.
> I suggest to the Cabinet that it would be an excellent idea to install David Lidington as caretaker Prime Minister.
Makes sense as he has zero chance of actually getting the job full time.
But another weak grey spreadsheet weilding remainer prolongs the drift.
> So... supposing the EU decides against an extension and the Commons face a choice of leaving with no deal or revocation (assuming it's put to a vote), which way would they jump?
Revoke does not seem to change much (apart from psychologically), we can still start again and leave if and when we agree a deal without waiting the 2 years. It seems the path of least resistance in a divided parliament as all options would still be on the table.
> Mr. Dickson, indeed.
>
> Another point I'd raise is that there's no time scale. It could be in a few years. Might not be for decades. Not tempted by that sort of bet.
Thank you for your welcome message yesterday .
No, these silly markets are not of interest for serious punters.
Borrowing in April 2019 was £5.8bn, nominally less than 2018 (£5.9bn). April is typically a bad month for the Exchequer.
Borrowing in the 2018/19 financial year was revised down £1.1bn, mainly due to a revision to March (which looked a bit high). The Exchequer now looks to have had a fairly consistently good 2018/19.
The inclusion of the student loan book is due in September, which will have a negative effect on borrowing as (essentially) the non-repayment of loans will be treated as an education subsidy, i.e. a current expense.
> > @Cyclefree said:
>
> > > @Cyclefree said:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > - Our Education Secretary and Equalities Minister (do we even have one anymore?) have said diddly squat.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I think that's Penny Mordaunt double-jobbing. Regardless of who has the title it's meaningless if they won't speak out in defence of Equalities.
>
> >
>
> > It is an utter dereliction of duty. Gay people are being attacked. The protestors are trying to stop gay people being teachers - to their children anyway. This is propagation of hate - and I don’t give a flying stuff that this hate is legitimised by some bloody book or other. Grrr.....
>
>
>
> 100% agree. The first thing they should do is immediately adopt the No Outsiders scheme as part of the national schools policy and put the full weight of the Government behind it (ignoring for the moment the reasonable response that this Government no longer has any weight). Stop letting all the responsibility for this being carried by a few brave head teachers and make it clear there will be no backing down. Make it cross party as well to make it clear it is the whole of Parliament that is behind this not just one party.
>
>
>
> Then start prosecuting parents for refusing to send their kids to school. If you can fine parents for taking their kids to Spain for a week during the school term then you should sure as hell be able to prosecute them for keeping them out of school for this.
>
> A teacher I know had a Muslim kid shout ‘We hate Sikhs’ in RE... she asked him why he said it and he said that’s what they say at home. His mother came to the school and denied it, said he was making it up, as kids do... since then he has had a note excusing him from RE lessons, he reads the Koran in a room in his own instead.
>
> To be honest though, I don’t think the parents are that wrong. They’re their kids, and if they want to bring them up how they like, why should the state interfere?
>
> They are NOT being stopped from teaching their children about their faith. They are being stopped from denying their children education and information about things they won’t learn at home. They are - rightly being stopped from teaching their children to hate others. They are being stopped from trying to stop gay people from being teachers. Read my header.
>
> These children are British children and should not be exempt from the obligations of being British which means being taught that homosexuality exists, is normal, not a lifestyle choice and is legal.
These parents are snowflakes and have been indulged for too long.
Start dishing out the fines - if they dont like the Uk education system then move to Ireland or France or somewhere.
> > @AlastairMeeks said:
> > I suggest to the Cabinet that it would be an excellent idea to install David Lidington as caretaker Prime Minister.
>
> How would that work constitutionally? Would May still be technically the PM, but agreeing to delegate everything to Lidington?
Simply that the cabinet agrees a single candidate as caretaker PM, who pledges to step down after a fixed period (perhaps in a trendy London restaurant).
Michael Howard is a recent precedent, albeit in Opposition.
Agreed.
(edit) Though the water is muddied somewhat by the legislation requiring the particular lessons be taught not coming in to force until September next year:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-47357372
Nevertheless, the arguments put forward against these lessons (eg "not age appropriate") are either bad faith or plain wrong, and many of the means of protest utterly unacceptable, if not illegal.
> So... supposing the EU decides against an extension and the Commons face a choice of leaving with no deal or revocation (assuming it's put to a vote), which way would they jump?
Revoke. With significant long term political consequences.
"The multi-millionaires who bought British Steel for £1 in 2016 and are now seeking financial aid from the government are charging £20m a year in fees and interest from the company."
Corbyn's manifesto writes itself really.
> So... supposing the EU decides against an extension and the Commons face a choice of leaving with no deal or revocation (assuming it's put to a vote), which way would they jump?
Revocation.
The UK is hollowing out its high street and its industrial core.
> > @williamglenn said:
> > > @AlastairMeeks said:
> > > I suggest to the Cabinet that it would be an excellent idea to install David Lidington as caretaker Prime Minister.
> >
> > How would that work constitutionally? Would May still be technically the PM, but agreeing to delegate everything to Lidington?
>
> No no no. It's very important that Mr Lidington should actually kiss hands.
Exactly. It's worth £203 to me.
> https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1131125467568906241
Now that a 2nd company has come in with Labour well under 20%, it's amazing that Ladbrokes are still generously offering 10/11 for the Labour UK vote share to be between 10% and 20%. That amounts to a range of about 10.2% to 20.4% in terms of the GB only vote share.
> > @AlastairMeeks said:
> > I suggest to the Cabinet that it would be an excellent idea to install David Lidington as caretaker Prime Minister.
>
> Makes sense as he has zero chance of actually getting the job full time.
>
> But another weak grey spreadsheet weilding remainer prolongs the drift.
>
It would however pay for a very nice winter break...
> > @williamglenn said:
>
> > > @AlastairMeeks said:
>
> > > I suggest to the Cabinet that it would be an excellent idea to install David Lidington as caretaker Prime Minister.
>
> >
>
> > How would that work constitutionally? Would May still be technically the PM, but agreeing to delegate everything to Lidington?
>
>
>
> No no no. It's very important that Mr Lidington should actually kiss hands.
>
> You will be unbearably smug and a lot richer if he does, won’t you?
The first half is probably a resting state but the second is indeed the case.
> > @Cyclefree said:
>
> > > @Cyclefree said:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > - Our Education Secretary and Equalities Minister (do we even have one anymore?) have said diddly squat.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I think that's Penny Mordaunt double-jobbing. Regardless of who has the title it's meaningless if they won't speak out in defence of Equalities.
>
> >
>
> > It is an utter dereliction of duty. Gay people are being attacked. The protestors are trying to stop gay people being teachers - to their children anyway. This is propagation of hate - and I don’t give a flying stuff that this hate is legitimised by some bloody book or other. Grrr.....
>
>
>
> 100% agree. The first thing they should do is immediately adopt the No Outsiders scheme as part of the national schools policy and put the full weight of the Government behind it (ignoring for the moment the reasonable response that this Government no longer has any weight). Stop letting all the responsibility for this being carried by a few brave head teachers and make it clear there will be no backing down. Make it cross party as well to make it clear it is the whole of Parliament that is behind this not just one party.
>
>
>
> Then start prosecuting parents for refusing to send their kids to school. If you can fine parents for taking their kids to Spain for a week during the school term then you should sure as hell be able to prosecute them for keeping them out of school for this.
>
> A teacher I know had a Muslim kid shout ‘We hate Sikhs’ in RE... she asked him why he said it and he said that’s what they say at home. His mother came to the school and denied it, said he was making it up, as kids do... since then he has had a note excusing him from RE lessons, he reads the Koran in a room in his own instead.
>
> To be honest though, I don’t think the parents are that wrong. They’re their kids, and if they want to bring them up how they like, why should the state interfere?
Because they expect the State to provide the schooling.
I am all for keeping the State as small as possible but if you want to enjoy the benefits of the services provided by a democratic state and to live in a community then you have to abide by the rules agreed by the majority in that state.
If you are not willing to abide by those rules and cannot persuade people to agree to change them through the democratic process then go live somewhere else.
There are a very large number of laws and current social norms I disagree with in this country but I do not get to chose to ignore them without expecting consequences.
> > @Cyclefree said:
>
> > > @Cyclefree said:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > - Our Education Secretary and Equalities Minister (do we even have one anymore?) have said diddly squat.
>
>
> > It is an utter dereliction of duty. Gay people are being attacked. The protestors are trying to stop gay people being teachers - to their children anyway. This is propagation of hate - and I don’t give a flying stuff that this hate is legitimised by some bloody book or other. Grrr.....
>
>
>
> 100% agree. The first thing they should do is immediately adopt the No Outsiders scheme as part of the national schools policy and put the full weight of the Government behind it (ignoring for the moment the reasonable response that this Government no longer has any weight). Stop letting all the responsibility for this being carried by a few brave head teachers and make it clear there will be no backing down. Make it cross party as well to make it clear it is the whole of Parliament that is behind this not just one party.
>
>
>
> Then start prosecuting parents for refusing to send their kids to school. If you can fine parents for taking their kids to Spain for a week during the school term then you should sure as hell be able to prosecute them for keeping them out of school for this.
>
> A teacher I know had a Muslim kid shout ‘We hate Sikhs’ in RE... she asked him why he said it and he said that’s what they say at home. His mother came to the school and denied it, said he was making it up, as kids do... since then he has had a note excusing him from RE lessons, he reads the Koran in a room in his own instead.
>
> To be honest though, I don’t think the parents are that wrong. They’re their kids, and if they want to bring them up how they like, why should the state interfere?
>
> Aren't these schools funded by the state (i.e. taxpayers)?
>
>
> Yes, but if the parents want to opt their kids out of things they disagree with that are very important to their family. I don’t see why they can’t
>
> You are not allowed to opt out of the law. The law says that gay people are equal and have equal rights to everyone else. These parents want to opt out of their children being taught that. Just no. If they want to live in a society which thinks gays are not equal or should be persecuted or killed they can fuck off to Brunei or Saudi Arabia. If you are British you abide by our laws.
Well said.
> > @Morris_Dancer said:
> > So... supposing the EU decides against an extension and the Commons face a choice of leaving with no deal or revocation (assuming it's put to a vote), which way would they jump?
>
> Revocation.
>
>
Nope.
ARM memo tells staff to stop working with China’s tech giant
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48363772
...What is not yet clear is whether ARM is acting on its own interpretation of the US rules, or whether it has been advised by the Commerce Department.
"If that interpretation is correct, that’s going to affect every semiconductor company in the world,” remarked analyst Lee Ratliff, from IHS Markit....
> > @williamglenn said:
>
> > > @AlastairMeeks said:
>
> > > I suggest to the Cabinet that it would be an excellent idea to install David Lidington as caretaker Prime Minister.
>
> >
>
> > How would that work constitutionally? Would May still be technically the PM, but agreeing to delegate everything to Lidington?
>
>
>
> No no no. It's very important that Mr Lidington should actually kiss hands.
>
> What price would you have this at now?
Very difficult to say. The impression I've got is that something has snapped in Westminster and that the end is nigh. In practice I think, though I'm not sure, that the Conservative party would live with Theresa May announcing her immediate resignation as party leader and undertaking to stay in office only until her successor is found.
But I'd say there has to be at least a 5% chance that the Conservative party want her out now from Number 10 too. If so, there isn't really an alternative to David Lidington. Everyone else is too embedded in one camp or another.
It is not diversity to accept lawbreaking.
> > @Cyclefree said:
>
> > x> @Cyclefree said:
>
> > Isn't the protest an expression of muslimness?
>
> >
>
> > Yes. And perfect proof why that stupid definition is stupid and dangerous. It would legitimise Muslim hate against others and stop others criticising it or even pointing it out.
>
> >
>
> > Bullying and hate and attacks should not get a free pass just because they're organised by someone claiming to do it in the name of religion.
>
>
>
> The trouble is that if we are to accept the principle that the victim gets to define the abuse, as with the IHRA antisemitism definition and with racism generally, then why is this case different?
>
>
>
> For example, a quick google finds this "perceived by the victim" definition:
>
> "A ‘racist incident’ is any incident, including any crime, which is perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by a hostility or prejudice based on a person’s race or perceived race."
>
> https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/hate-crime-england-and-wales-2017-to-2018
>
>
>
> Another tack would be to approach the problem of definition from the other end, which is what I think the IHRA did, and ask what sort of things to known virulent antisemites (or in this case Islamophobes) say, and add that list to the definition. So if racists compare muslim women to letter boxes, then that comparison becomes ipso facto evidence of racism -- worse, it becomes proof when the defence of context is removed.
>
>
>
> What makes this worse is the prospect of Saudi-funded faith schools popping up to solve this problem but lining up others, as happened in Pakistan thanks to IMF-imposed cuts.
>
> It’s not racism. Islam is not a race. A religion. One that can be chosen. Except that some Muslims think that one should be killed if one chooses not to be a Muslim. And that very fact is one which ought to be criticised. Not protected. Nothing which is a matter of choice should be off limits. All religions should be open to criticism. Putting them off limits turns us towards theocracy and a Muslim theocracy - as we can see all too clearly in the world around us - is a horrible thing. We have not in the West worked hard over hundreds of years to cast off the governance of the Church to have us being governed by some alternative religious nitwittery.
That is all well and good but I was simply pointing out a consequence of accepting victims' definitions, which is what we (and HMG) do in other cases.
> > @Tissue_Price said:
> > > @williamglenn said:
> >
> > > > @AlastairMeeks said:
> >
> > > > I suggest to the Cabinet that it would be an excellent idea to install David Lidington as caretaker Prime Minister.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > How would that work constitutionally? Would May still be technically the PM, but agreeing to delegate everything to Lidington?
> >
> >
> >
> > No no no. It's very important that Mr Lidington should actually kiss hands.
> >
> > What price would you have this at now?
>
> Very difficult to say. The impression I've got is that something has snapped in Westminster and that the end is nigh. In practice I think, though I'm not sure, that the Conservative party would live with Theresa May announcing her immediate resignation as party leader and undertaking to stay in office only until her successor is found.
>
> But I'd say there has to be at least a 5% chance that the Conservative party want her out now from Number 10 too. If so, there isn't really an alternative to David Lidington. Everyone else is too embedded in one camp or another.
He IS Jim Hacker.
https://twitter.com/mtpennycook/status/1131103733750878208
I think they should be allowed to pull their kids from lessons they disagreee with, not stop the lessons being taught.
What if they believe the world was created in 7 days 4k odd years ago and is flat? Should they be allowed to withdraw their kids from history & geography lessons?
> > @Tissue_Price said:
> > > @williamglenn said:
> >
> > > > @AlastairMeeks said:
> >
> > > > I suggest to the Cabinet that it would be an excellent idea to install David Lidington as caretaker Prime Minister.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > How would that work constitutionally? Would May still be technically the PM, but agreeing to delegate everything to Lidington?
> >
> >
> >
> > No no no. It's very important that Mr Lidington should actually kiss hands.
> >
> > What price would you have this at now?
>
> Very difficult to say. The impression I've got is that something has snapped in Westminster and that the end is nigh. In practice I think, though I'm not sure, that the Conservative party would live with Theresa May announcing her immediate resignation as party leader and undertaking to stay in office only until her successor is found.
>
> But I'd say there has to be at least a 5% chance that the Conservative party want her out now from Number 10 too. If so, there isn't really an alternative to David Lidington. Everyone else is too embedded in one camp or another.
Hammond would be better than Lidington. The Chancellor is older than Lidington and on record as saying he does not covet the job, so younger PM-wannabes can be sure he will step down when agreed. Hammond has been broadly right on Europe so far, and has a good story on the economy, and has the demeanour to calm the situation rather than stir up the headbangers on either side. And I'd win more.
> > @AlastairMeeks said:
> > > @Tissue_Price said:
> > > > @williamglenn said:
> > >
> > > > > @AlastairMeeks said:
> > >
> > > > > I suggest to the Cabinet that it would be an excellent idea to install David Lidington as caretaker Prime Minister.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > How would that work constitutionally? Would May still be technically the PM, but agreeing to delegate everything to Lidington?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > No no no. It's very important that Mr Lidington should actually kiss hands.
> > >
> > > What price would you have this at now?
> >
> > Very difficult to say. The impression I've got is that something has snapped in Westminster and that the end is nigh. In practice I think, though I'm not sure, that the Conservative party would live with Theresa May announcing her immediate resignation as party leader and undertaking to stay in office only until her successor is found.
> >
> > But I'd say there has to be at least a 5% chance that the Conservative party want her out now from Number 10 too. If so, there isn't really an alternative to David Lidington. Everyone else is too embedded in one camp or another.
>
> Hammond would be better than Lidington. The Chancellor is older than Lidington and on record as saying he does not covet the job, so younger PM-wannabes can be sure he will step down when agreed. Hammond has been broadly right on Europe so far, and has a good story on the economy, and has the demeanour to calm the situation rather than stir up the headbangers on either side. And I'd win more.
Being broadly right on Europe disqualifies him in the eyes of most Tories. They want a headbanger and they want one now.
> > @isam said:
>
> > > @Cyclefree said:
>
> >
>
> > > > @Cyclefree said:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > - Our Education Secretary and Equalities Minister (do we even have one anymore?) have said diddly squat.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > I think that's Penny Mordaunt double-jobbing. Regardless of who has the title it's meaningless if they won't speak out in defence of Equalities.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > It is an utter dereliction of duty. Gay people are being attacked. The protestors are trying to stop gay people being teachers - to their children anyway. This is propagation of hate - and I don’t give a flying stuff that this hate is legitimised by some bloody book or other. Grrr.....
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > 100% agree. The first thing they should do is immediately adopt the No Outsiders scheme as part of the national schools policy and put the full weight of the Government behind it (ignoring for the moment the reasonable response that this Government no longer has any weight). Stop letting all the responsibility for this being carried by a few brave head teachers and make it clear there will be no backing down. Make it cross party as well to make it clear it is the whole of Parliament that is behind this not just one party.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
> >
>
> > To be honest though, I don’t think the parents are that wrong. They’re their kids, and if they want to bring them up how they like, why should the state interfere?
>
>
>
> Because they expect the State to provide the schooling.
>
>
>
> I am all for keeping the State as small as possible but if you want to enjoy the benefits of the services provided by a democratic state and to live in a community then you have to abide by the rules agreed by the majority in that state.
>
>
>
> If you are not willing to abide by those rules and cannot persuade people to agree to change them through the democratic process then go live somewhere else.
>
>
>
> There are a very large number of laws and current social norms I disagree with in this country but I do not get to chose to ignore them without expecting consequences.
>
> I think they should be allowed to pull their kids from lessons they disagreee with, not stop the lessons being taught.
People should not be allowed to opt out of legal requirements because they disagree with them. I disagree with the current speeding laws and the current tax policies but would fully expect to be prosecuted if I was driving at 85 on a motorway or did not pay my tax.
> The Huawei sanctions fallout is going to be considerable:
>
> ARM memo tells staff to stop working with China’s tech giant
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48363772
> ...What is not yet clear is whether ARM is acting on its own interpretation of the US rules, or whether it has been advised by the Commerce Department.
> "If that interpretation is correct, that’s going to affect every semiconductor company in the world,” remarked analyst Lee Ratliff, from IHS Markit....
>
> Be fun if China call in their debts and stop lending to USA
You have an odd idea of fun...
> > @Cyclefree said:
>
> > I was very impressed by how Jess Phillips took them on face to face.
>
> >
>
> > Has Corbyn had anything to say on the matter?
>
> >
>
> > https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-48347769
>
> >
>
> > No-one senior has had anything to say on the matter. Too bloody scared and feeble.
>
> >
>
> > - Our Education Secretary and Equalities Minister (do we even have one anymore?) have said diddly squat.
>
> > - The teachers and the schools have been left unsupported.
>
> > - Those in charge have been afraid of bullies because these particular bullies are Muslim (now joined by some of the dimmer Christian sects and Orthodox Jews) and taking on Muslim bullies is fraught with danger: accusations of Islamophobia at best and quite a lot worse at worst.
>
> > - Those in charge talk about values but do not understand them or fight for them or protect them.
>
> > - They think (wrongly) that they are obliged to respect that which is not worthy of respect.
>
> > - They tell themselves one of the biggest lies around: that we are all basically the same and believe the same things, when this is not so. You are either for LGBQT rights or not; you either believe that they are equal or you do not and you cannot just wish those differences away by wittering about "tolerance" and "diversity" and all the other banal Kumbaya nonsense that passes for too much public debate on difficult topics these days.
>
> > - They are frightened into thinking that criticising Islam is Islamophobic and must not be done.
>
> > - They do not fundamentally care about the children who are being deprived of education and help and advice. These are Muslim children you see and somehow not worthy of being taught the same as all British children and being expected to abide by the standards of everyone else. The racism of low expectations.
>
> >
>
> > Oh, Christ! It is all too depressing. I could go on. I have done. See here. http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/03/21/rendering-unto-caesar/
>
>
>
> Forget politics for a while. The sun is out, the weather sublime. Just enjoy the garden.
>
> Very wise advice. And my husband has invited me to lunch at a local bistro after his court case. (He is representing someone.) This is unusual. The lunch, I mean. What is he after?
>
> BTW 3 more Lib Dem votes in London from the Cyclefree household.
Look forward to the post-lunch update....
> The Huawei sanctions fallout is going to be considerable:
>
> ARM memo tells staff to stop working with China’s tech giant
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48363772
> ...What is not yet clear is whether ARM is acting on its own interpretation of the US rules, or whether it has been advised by the Commerce Department.
> "If that interpretation is correct, that’s going to affect every semiconductor company in the world,” remarked analyst Lee Ratliff, from IHS Markit....
>
> Be fun if China call in their debts and stop lending to USA
China have lent enough money that the problem is now theirs, not the USA's, as the current 'trade war' illustrates.
> > @DecrepitJohnL said:
> > > @AlastairMeeks said:
> > > > @Tissue_Price said:
> > > > > @williamglenn said:
> > > >
> > > > > > @AlastairMeeks said:
> > > >
> > > > > > I suggest to the Cabinet that it would be an excellent idea to install David Lidington as caretaker Prime Minister.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > How would that work constitutionally? Would May still be technically the PM, but agreeing to delegate everything to Lidington?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > No no no. It's very important that Mr Lidington should actually kiss hands.
> > > >
> > > > What price would you have this at now?
> > >
> > > Very difficult to say. The impression I've got is that something has snapped in Westminster and that the end is nigh. In practice I think, though I'm not sure, that the Conservative party would live with Theresa May announcing her immediate resignation as party leader and undertaking to stay in office only until her successor is found.
> > >
> > > But I'd say there has to be at least a 5% chance that the Conservative party want her out now from Number 10 too. If so, there isn't really an alternative to David Lidington. Everyone else is too embedded in one camp or another.
> >
> > Hammond would be better than Lidington. The Chancellor is older than Lidington and on record as saying he does not covet the job, so younger PM-wannabes can be sure he will step down when agreed. Hammond has been broadly right on Europe so far, and has a good story on the economy, and has the demeanour to calm the situation rather than stir up the headbangers on either side. And I'd win more.
>
> Being broadly right on Europe disqualifies him in the eyes of most Tories. They want a headbanger and they want one now.
Most Tories? Who cares about most Tories? The whole point of a caretaker is that most Tories won't get a vote. No-one gets a vote: it is a stitch-up to agree a single candidate. As with Michael Howard. They will be bought off with the promise of a vote in a year's time (or however long is agreed).
> > @isam said:
> >
> > I think they should be allowed to pull their kids from lessons they disagreee with, not stop the lessons being taught.
>
> People should not be allowed to opt out of legal requirements because they disagree with them. I disagree with the current speeding laws and the current tax policies but would fully expect to be prosecuted if I was driving at 85 on a motorway or did not pay my tax.
There were kids at my primary school who were Jehovah's Witnesses and they were excused from assembly due to the religious nature of some assemblies.
Then what?
> https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1131144791985655808
There's a large minority of Tory MPs that I would not take a message like that seriously, as they've said the same many times before. If the text were from Amber Rudd then I might react differently.
Unlike some, I've never been under the misapprehension you are an idiot.
> https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1131144791985655808
>
>
>
> Then what?
A sort of Battle Royale/Hunger Games (or maybe even Running Man) style competition for prospective Tory leaders. Possibly.
> > @Scott_P said:
> > https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1131144791985655808
>
> There's a large minority of Tory MPs that I would not take a message like that seriously, as they've said the same many times before. If the text were from Amber Rudd then I might react differently.
Cease to be. Surely that is extreme !!!!
> > @brokenwheel said:
> > https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1131144791985655808
> >
> >
> >
> > Then what?
>
> A sort of Battle Royale/Hunger Games (or maybe even Running Man) style competition for prospective Tory leaders. Possibly.
It'll be W-A-Y more brutal than that....
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/05/europe-far-right-facebook-spread-disinfo/589879/
Europe’s Far-Right Leaders Are Using Facebook to Transcend Borders
Captioned in English, sponsored by the Hungarian government, promoted to social-media users in Greece: A video about a Belgian politician represents a new trend in the spread of illiberalism....
https://onezero.medium.com/the-dark-forest-theory-of-the-internet-7dc3e68a7cb1
...When I went offline for reasons of personal wellness and productivity, I stopped going to the bowling alleys altogether. But lately, I’ve started to question that decision.
I’m reminded of what happened in the 1970s when the hippies — bruised and bloodied from the culture wars of the ‘60s — retreated into self-help, wellness, and personal development, as Adam Curtis documents in his series The Century of Self. While they turned inward, the winners of the ‘60s culture wars took society’s reins. A focus on personal wellness created an unintended side effect: a retreat from the public arena, and a shift in the distribution of power ever since...