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  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,812
    Miss Cyclefree, in the oppression Olympics, Christians score poorly.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    isam said:

    justin124 said:

    Brian Walden has died at 86. He supported Brexit - though had been an Anti- Marketeer even back in the 1960s.

    Can we have 1:34 of no posting while we listen in silence to this please?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuLHwF5x8ZM

    Used to be on the tv when I came back from playing football as a kid
    10 points for anyone who can name the stretch of railway line shown.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Cyclefree said:

    If only every day were like this.

    We'd run out of water and - much more seriously - we'd have no way of starting conversations.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Church burnt down and Christians shot:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-48246715

    FPT (in relation to Asia Bibi):-

    More than an apology is needed. Real action to help those being persecuted in countries where we can and do have influence is needed. We could, for instance, offer asylum to persecuted Syrian Christians. To date I believe we have offered asylum to precisely zero such people.

    It is quite shameful.
    I believe they were prioritised for support in the camps
    They prioritised those in the camps. What they refused to accept was that many Christians were not in camps, in part, because they were still being attacked by Muslims in those camps. So they suffered twice. We refused to help those most in need. It has been private organisations and churches which have bern trying to help. It is still a shameful dereliction of duty and compassion by the British government towards some of the most vulnerable and persecuted people around.

    One belated speech by Jeremy Hunt - welcome as it is - does not make up for it and May, the ostentatious churchgoer, should be ashamed of her government’s inaction on this.

  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    > @Gardenwalker said:
    > https://twitter.com/thatginamiller/status/1127507492701900800

    To go together with the lies now being peddled by some dodgy EU election leaflets for the sw region.

    Every time Barry Gardiner opens his mouth more Labour Remainers head for the exit door.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    justin124 said:

    Brian Walden has died at 86. He supported Brexit - though had been an Anti- Marketeer even back in the 1960s.

    Can we have 1:34 of no posting while we listen in silence to this please?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuLHwF5x8ZM

    Used to be on the tv when I came back from playing football as a kid
    10 points for anyone who can name the stretch of railway line shown.
    I saw an HST - I think it might be somewhere on the Great Western near Swindon.

    Oh yeah, RIP to Walden, loved the theme tune to Weekend World.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    justin124 said:

    Brian Walden has died at 86. He supported Brexit - though had been an Anti- Marketeer even back in the 1960s.

    Can we have 1:34 of no posting while we listen in silence to this please?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuLHwF5x8ZM

    Used to be on the tv when I came back from playing football as a kid
    10 points for anyone who can name the stretch of railway line shown.
    I saw an HST - I think it might be somewhere on the Great Western near Swindon.

    Oh yeah, RIP to Walden, loved the theme tune to Weekend World.
    Nope.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,812
    Mr. Doethur, if only they'd been murdered by a far right maniac instead of Islamic terrorists...

    As an aside, it's also worth noting the low key to non-existent international reaction to China imprisoning a million Muslims or so in happy friendship/re-education/indoctrination camps.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005
    I think this cuts right to the heart of it.

    https://twitter.com/BoringMilner/status/1127605684059742208
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    nico67 said:

    https://twitter.com/thatginamiller/status/1127507492701900800
    To go together with the lies now being peddled by some dodgy EU election leaflets for the sw region.
    Every time Barry Gardiner opens his mouth more Labour Remainers head for the exit door.

    What does she mean, 'now?' Tony Blair used to be leader. He was replaced by Gordon Brown. Now it's led by Corbyn who has their lack of integrity coupled to an equally alarming lack of intellect.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    If only every day were like this.

    We'd run out of water and - much more seriously - we'd have no way of starting conversations.
    I have a water butt. I quite like rain. So a bit of rain, early in the morning, would be fine. Or one day a week of heavy rain to really soak into the ground.qa

    There are always conversations to be had. I could start a scathing rant about the utter uselessness of Copeland Borough Council, for instance.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    If only every day were like this.

    We'd run out of water and - much more seriously - we'd have no way of starting conversations.
    I have a water butt. I quite like rain. So a bit of rain, early in the morning, would be fine. Or one day a week of heavy rain to really soak into the ground.qa

    There are always conversations to be had. I could start a scathing rant about the utter uselessness of Copeland Borough Council, for instance.
    I've got seven water butts. They still ran dry last year. (Although I'm assuming yours is probably a bit bigger.)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005
    edited May 2019
    > @ydoethur said:
    > If only every day were like this.
    >
    > We'd run out of water and - much more seriously - we'd have no way of starting conversations.
    >
    > I have a water butt. I quite like rain. So a bit of rain, early in the morning, would be fine. Or one day a week of heavy rain to really soak into the ground.qa
    >
    > There are always conversations to be had. I could start a scathing rant about the utter uselessness of Copeland Borough Council, for instance.
    >
    > I've got seven water butts. They still ran dry last year. (Although I'm assuming yours is probably a bit bigger.)



    So you're saying Cyclefree has a bigger butt, just to be clear?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    So you're saying Cyclefree has a bigger butt, just to be clear?

    Umm, yes.

    I think I have made an ass of myself...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Miss Cyclefree, in the oppression Olympics, Christians score poorly.

    Christians are the most persecuted religious group in the world - in Africa, in the Middle East and parts of the Far East. And, yes, what the Chinese are doing to the Muslim Uighurs is a disgrace. But they are too far away for anyone to care and Chinese money and power talk. Ask the poor Tibetans.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    justin124 said:

    Brian Walden has died at 86. He supported Brexit - though had been an Anti- Marketeer even back in the 1960s.

    Can we have 1:34 of no posting while we listen in silence to this please?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuLHwF5x8ZM

    Used to be on the tv when I came back from playing football as a kid
    10 points for anyone who can name the stretch of railway line shown.
    I saw an HST - I think it might be somewhere on the Great Western near Swindon.

    Oh yeah, RIP to Walden, loved the theme tune to Weekend World.
    Nope.
    Midland south of Chesterfield?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    ydoethur said:

    So you're saying Cyclefree has a bigger butt, just to be clear?

    Umm, yes.

    I think I have made an ass of myself...
    You have. But I forgive you. Mine is not as big as your seven.

    Where are you living anyway?? Chatsworth???
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914
    > @OblitusSumMe said:
    > > @SandyRentool said:
    > > > @ydoethur said:
    > > > Unusual day today. Solar appears to be supplying about a quarter of all our power:
    > > >
    > > > https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk
    > > >
    > > > More than nuclear or wind.
    > > >
    > > > Does mean at sunset they're going to have crank up the gas and possibly coal though.
    > >
    > > Solar is not a good option for the UK. Generation is countercyclical with demand. Better to invest in despatchable low carbon energy that is actually available at 5pm in January.
    > >
    > > Every MW of solar capacity has to be duplicated with a MW of something to switch to when the sun ain't shining.
    >
    > Only until storage options improve. Some fairly large-scale batteries have been put in place and there are a variety of other methods being developed. Then excess solar can be timeshifted to satisfy evening peak demand.

    Quite right, there's a lot of effort in storage nowadays. https://www.c2es.org/content/electric-energy-storage/
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    > @Sunil_Prasannan said:
    > Brian Walden has died at 86. He supported Brexit - though had been an Anti- Marketeer even back in the 1960s.
    >
    > Can we have 1:34 of no posting while we listen in silence to this please?
    >
    >
    >
    > Used to be on the tv when I came back from playing football as a kid
    >
    > 10 points for anyone who can name the stretch of railway line shown.
    >
    > I saw an HST - I think it might be somewhere on the Great Western near Swindon.
    >
    > Oh yeah, RIP to Walden, loved the theme tune to Weekend World.
    >
    > Nope.
    >
    > Midland south of Chesterfield?

    Bingo! Tapton Junction through to Clay Cross Junction and then up the Derby line.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Cyclefree said:


    ydoethur said:

    So you're saying Cyclefree has a bigger butt, just to be clear?

    Umm, yes.

    I think I have made an ass of myself...
    You have. But I forgive you. Mine is not as big as your seven.

    Where are you living anyway?? Chatsworth???
    They are all quite small, and I do not have a workable outside tap.

    Plus I confess I have a weakness for hydrangeas.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    tlg86 said:

    > @Sunil_Prasannan said:

    > Brian Walden has died at 86. He supported Brexit - though had been an Anti- Marketeer even back in the 1960s.

    >

    > Can we have 1:34 of no posting while we listen in silence to this please?

    >

    >

    >

    > Used to be on the tv when I came back from playing football as a kid

    >

    > 10 points for anyone who can name the stretch of railway line shown.

    >

    > I saw an HST - I think it might be somewhere on the Great Western near Swindon.

    >

    > Oh yeah, RIP to Walden, loved the theme tune to Weekend World.

    >

    > Nope.

    >

    > Midland south of Chesterfield?



    Bingo! Tapton Junction through to Clay Cross Junction and then up the Derby line.

    I saw the tunnel after the left turn for the Toton line :)
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,538
    > @rottenborough said:
    > Sad news on Walden
    >
    > Boy, do we need someone like him around now.

    Anyone else here whose teenage Sunday mornings were spent watching Weekend World?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    > @rottenborough said:
    > Is Chris Rea, joint at #18 on the donation list, the singer Chris Rea?

    His brother is our local ice cream van man.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,722
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    isam said:

    justin124 said:

    Brian Walden has died at 86. He supported Brexit - though had been an Anti- Marketeer even back in the 1960s.

    Can we have 1:34 of no posting while we listen in silence to this please?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuLHwF5x8ZM

    Used to be on the tv when I came back from playing football as a kid
    10 points for anyone who can name the stretch of railway line shown.
    I saw an HST - I think it might be somewhere on the Great Western near Swindon.

    Oh yeah, RIP to Walden, loved the theme tune to Weekend World.
    Nope.
    Midland south of Chesterfield?
    Bingo! Tapton Junction through to Clay Cross Junction and then up the Derby line.
    Well done Sunil! All that staring out of the train window has paid off.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Labour will be lucky to scrape 20% at the Euro elections . They’re taking Remainers for mugs but have run out of road now .

    I feel sorry for some excellent candidates running for MEP but a vote for Labour is now a vote for more fence sitting , Remainers are supposed to be grateful for a few crumbs off the table by way of the option of a second vote , but come the time Corbyn and his cronies will find another fence to sit on. Enough !
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    > @No_Offence_Alan said:
    > > @rottenborough said:
    > > Sad news on Walden
    > >
    > > Boy, do we need someone like him around now.
    >
    > Anyone else here whose teenage Sunday mornings were spent watching Weekend World?

    Guilty as charged.

    Earlier in the morning it was the Open University and Nai Zindagi Naya Jeevan.

    On reflection, they all appear to have had an influence on me...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:


    ydoethur said:

    So you're saying Cyclefree has a bigger butt, just to be clear?

    Umm, yes.

    I think I have made an ass of myself...
    You have. But I forgive you. Mine is not as big as your seven.

    Where are you living anyway?? Chatsworth???
    They are all quite small, and I do not have a workable outside tap.

    Plus I confess I have a weakness for hydrangeas.
    Ah! I grew a white hydrangea in a pot last year. Stunning.

    I put in automatic watering pipes when I redid the garden a few years ago but never use them as I love watering the garden myself, plus all my many pots of agapanthus (my weakness). And the dog loves being sprayed while I do it. I mulch a lot as well which helps avoid water loss.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    dixiedean said:

    > @rottenborough said:

    > Is Chris Rea, joint at #18 on the donation list, the singer Chris Rea?



    His brother is our local ice cream van man.

    This is a Vanilla forum!
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,722


    dixiedean said:

    > @rottenborough said:

    > Is Chris Rea, joint at #18 on the donation list, the singer Chris Rea?



    His brother is our local ice cream van man.

    This is a Vanilla forum!
    No longer vanillaforums.com
    They are now https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:


    ydoethur said:

    So you're saying Cyclefree has a bigger butt, just to be clear?

    Umm, yes.

    I think I have made an ass of myself...
    You have. But I forgive you. Mine is not as big as your seven.

    Where are you living anyway?? Chatsworth???
    They are all quite small, and I do not have a workable outside tap.

    Plus I confess I have a weakness for hydrangeas.
    Ah! I grew a white hydrangea in a pot last year. Stunning.

    I put in automatic watering pipes when I redid the garden a few years ago but never use them as I love watering the garden myself, plus all my many pots of agapanthus (my weakness). And the dog loves being sprayed while I do it. I mulch a lot as well which helps avoid water loss.

    I've got three water butts of 150 litres each, plus four of 200. Capacity of 1250 litres.

    But my garden is not only thirsty due to the aforementioned weakness, it faces due South and has little or no shade.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,883
    We have hydrangeas and agapanthers in West Wales, lovely colours. And 2 palm trees to boot!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    > @dixiedean said:
    > > @rottenborough said:
    > > Is Chris Rea, joint at #18 on the donation list, the singer Chris Rea?
    >
    > His brother is our local ice cream van man.

    What number Stella Street are you?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    > @ydoethur said:
    > So you're saying Cyclefree has a bigger butt, just to be clear?
    >
    > Umm, yes.
    >
    > I think I have made an ass of myself...
    >
    > You have. But I forgive you. Mine is not as big as your seven.
    >
    > Where are you living anyway?? Chatsworth???
    >
    > They are all quite small, and I do not have a workable outside tap.
    >
    > Plus I confess I have a weakness for hydrangeas.
    >
    > Ah! I grew a white hydrangea in a pot last year. Stunning.
    >
    > I put in automatic watering pipes when I redid the garden a few years ago but never use them as I love watering the garden myself, plus all my many pots of agapanthus (my weakness). And the dog loves being sprayed while I do it. I mulch a lot as well which helps avoid water loss.
    >
    >
    >
    > I've got three water butts of 150 litres each, plus four of 200. Capacity of 1250 litres.
    >
    > But my garden is not only thirsty due to the aforementioned weakness, it faces due South and has little or no shade.

    why not plant some
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,490

    > @Charles said:

    > Solar is not a good option for the UK. Generation is countercyclical with demand. Better to invest in despatchable low carbon energy that is actually available at 5pm in January.

    > Every MW of solar capacity has to be duplicated with a MW of something to switch to when the sun ain't shining.

    >

    > Likewise wind, unless we stand Boris under the turbines.

    >

    > That's why we should have gone with tidal and May is a muppet for failing to do so.

    >

    > Except the most reliable sources of tidal energy are in Scotland and apparently the union can not be guaranteed



    England imports gas from Qatar and Russia. Scottish leccy should be no less acceptable.

    Quite. As well as coal from Russia.

    The Swansea Bay tidal project wanted a strike price, in perpetuity, that was grotesque. The Government, very sadly, was right to reject it on those grounds. It was greed, and the backers are using the enthusiasm and hope behind it, in my opinion, to hold the Government to ransom.

    I do believe and look forward to it being built some day. I want them to add the world's highest salt water jet to the project, that would be a huge tourism boost. Here's the current one in KSA.
    https://www.google.com/search?q=ksa+highest+salt+water+jet&client=firefox-b-m&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwil07KNupbiAhWdSxUIHZKbD0YQ_AUIBigB&biw=360&bih=512#mhpiv=9&spf=1557680168377
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    why not plant some

    It's an obvious question and don't think I haven't thought of it. Unfortunately there is neither the room nor the depth of soil for a tree or a hedge where it would make a difference.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    > @ydoethur said:
    > Brian Walden has died at 86. He supported Brexit - though had been an Anti- Marketeer even back in the 1960s.
    >
    > That is a surreal post.
    >
    > People really are losing all sense of perspective right now.

    My point was that Walden had held pretty consistent view re-the EEC/EU throughout his career - unlike - say - David Owen.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    justin124 said:

    > @ydoethur said:

    > Brian Walden has died at 86. He supported Brexit - though had been an Anti- Marketeer even back in the 1960s.
    > That is a surreal post.
    > People really are losing all sense of perspective right now.

    My point was that Walden had held pretty consistent view re-the EEC/EU throughout his career - unlike - say - David Owen.

    I got that far. I just can't understand why it was the one and only fact you would pluck out in a post announcing his death, rather than the fact he was a former MP, journalist, academic and broadcaster.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    > @Luckyguy1983 said:
    > > @Charles said:
    >
    > > Solar is not a good option for the UK. Generation is countercyclical with demand. Better to invest in despatchable low carbon energy that is actually available at 5pm in January.
    >
    > > Every MW of solar capacity has to be duplicated with a MW of something to switch to when the sun ain't shining.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Likewise wind, unless we stand Boris under the turbines.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > That's why we should have gone with tidal and May is a muppet for failing to do so.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Except the most reliable sources of tidal energy are in Scotland and apparently the union can not be guaranteed
    >
    > England imports gas from Qatar and Russia. Scottish leccy should be no less acceptable.
    >
    > Quite. As well as coal from Russia.
    >
    > The Swansea Bay tidal project wanted a strike price, in perpetuity, that was grotesque. The Government, very sadly, was right to reject it on those grounds. It was greed, and the backers are using the enthusiasm and hope behind it, in my opinion, to hold the Government to ransom.
    >
    > I do believe and look forward to it being built some day. I want them to add the world's highest salt water jet to the project, that would be a huge tourism boost. Here's the current one in KSA.
    > https://www.google.com/search?q=ksa+highest+salt+water+jet&client=firefox-b-m&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwil07KNupbiAhWdSxUIHZKbD0YQ_AUIBigB&biw=360&bih=512#mhpiv=9&spf=1557680168377
    _________________________
    Private Eye's investigations almost destroyed the case for supporting that company, and maybe reading the Eye influenced the government - who knows what they read - but the Eye noted that if Jeremy Corbyn gets into Downing St. he might be more gullible.

    Other lagoon promoters are available. I don't currently know of any evidence against this particular co.: www.tidalelectric.com. The basic idea is excellent. With some tweaking, connected lagoons could produce power on demand to match the early evening peak, i.e. when everyone wants electricity.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:


    ydoethur said:

    So you're saying Cyclefree has a bigger butt, just to be clear?

    Umm, yes.

    I think I have made an ass of myself...
    You have. But I forgive you. Mine is not as big as your seven.

    Where are you living anyway?? Chatsworth???
    They are all quite small, and I do not have a workable outside tap.

    Plus I confess I have a weakness for hydrangeas.
    Ah! I grew a white hydrangea in a pot last year. Stunning.

    I put in automatic watering pipes when I redid the garden a few years ago but never use them as I love watering the garden myself, plus all my many pots of agapanthus (my weakness). And the dog loves being sprayed while I do it. I mulch a lot as well which helps avoid water loss.

    I've got three water butts of 150 litres each, plus four of 200. Capacity of 1250 litres.

    But my garden is not only thirsty due to the aforementioned weakness, it faces due South and has little or no shade.
    Snap! Mine is due south as well, though there is some shade next to the garden office, which is where I have all my ferns. I tend to grow plants that can cope with sunny conditions: figs, grapes, olives, euphorbia etc.. But the roses thrive, in part, I think because I put lots of effort into giving them a really good root system.

    The garden in the Lake District will be a challenge - on a hill, windy and not far from the sea - but I am nothing if not determined.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    > @ydoethur said:
    > > @ydoethur said:
    >
    > > Brian Walden has died at 86. He supported Brexit - though had been an Anti- Marketeer even back in the 1960s.
    > > That is a surreal post.
    > > People really are losing all sense of perspective right now.
    >
    > My point was that Walden had held pretty consistent view re-the EEC/EU throughout his career - unlike - say - David Owen.
    >
    > I got that far. I just can't understand why it was the one and only fact you would pluck out in a post announcing his death, rather than the fact he was a former MP, journalist, academic and broadcaster.

    Well - that stems from the BBC article giving details of his passing.His wife sstated that he was a firm Brexiteer and that he will have regretted not living to see Brexit.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    > @No_Offence_Alan said:
    > > @rottenborough said:
    > > Sad news on Walden
    > >
    > > Boy, do we need someone like him around now.
    >
    > Anyone else here whose teenage Sunday mornings were spent watching Weekend World?

    Yes - I also recall Peter Jay presenting the programme from the early 1970s.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    edited May 2019
    > @justin124 said:
    > > @ydoethur said:
    > > > @ydoethur said:
    > >
    > > > Brian Walden has died at 86. He supported Brexit - though had been an Anti- Marketeer even back in the 1960s.
    > > > That is a surreal post.
    > > > People really are losing all sense of perspective right now.
    > >
    > > My point was that Walden had held pretty consistent view re-the EEC/EU throughout his career - unlike - say - David Owen.
    > >
    > > I got that far. I just can't understand why it was the one and only fact you would pluck out in a post announcing his death, rather than the fact he was a former MP, journalist, academic and broadcaster.
    >
    > Well - that stems from the BBC article giving details of his passing.His wife sstated that he was a firm Brexiteer and that he will have regretted not living to see Brexit.

    shouldnt you be celevratiing ?

    old bloke dies, voted Brexit hurrah etc

    I mean this is what the age spite means
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    > @Alanbrooke said:
    > > @justin124 said:
    > > > @ydoethur said:
    > > > > @ydoethur said:
    > > >
    > > > > Brian Walden has died at 86. He supported Brexit - though had been an Anti- Marketeer even back in the 1960s.
    > > > > That is a surreal post.
    > > > > People really are losing all sense of perspective right now.
    > > >
    > > > My point was that Walden had held pretty consistent view re-the EEC/EU throughout his career - unlike - say - David Owen.
    > > >
    > > > I got that far. I just can't understand why it was the one and only fact you would pluck out in a post announcing his death, rather than the fact he was a former MP, journalist, academic and broadcaster.
    > >
    > > Well - that stems from the BBC article giving details of his passing.His wife sstated that he was a firm Brexiteer and that he will have regretted not living to see Brexit.
    >
    > shouldnt you be celevratiing ?
    >
    > old bloke dies, voted Brexit hurrah etc
    >
    > I mean this is what the age spite means

    I do not have strong views on the EU one way or the other - though I voted Leave.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    > @ydoethur said:
    > why not plant some
    >
    > It's an obvious question and don't think I haven't thought of it. Unfortunately there is neither the room nor the depth of soil for a tree or a hedge where it would make a difference.

    a ceanothus might work ( but would suffer in winter if its cold with you ) I put one in a corner of the garden with very little soil support and it thrived.n

    Acer might go too
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    On topic: Steve Baker is a next to nobody who seems not to realise it. Lets remember what is ultimately going to do it for May, a kicking at the polls. How Baker is in any way considered credible by a single member of the Conservative Party is beyond me.

    Off topic: I was abroad very recently in what we wonderfully term 'the Middle East'. There is a genuine concern over the current Iran/US escalation amongst pretty much anyone I spoke to, where the subject came up. Some talked of an almost certain provocation, real or faked, sparking something off.

    With that in mind, stories, reportedly from official UAE sources, are claiming attempted sabotage operations against 4 civilian (merchant) vessels in its waters.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    > @justin124 said:
    > > @Alanbrooke said:
    > > > @justin124 said:
    > > > > @ydoethur said:
    > > > > > @ydoethur said:
    > > > >
    > > > > > Brian Walden has died at 86. He supported Brexit - though had been an Anti- Marketeer even back in the 1960s.
    > > > > > That is a surreal post.
    > > > > > People really are losing all sense of perspective right now.
    > > > >
    > > > > My point was that Walden had held pretty consistent view re-the EEC/EU throughout his career - unlike - say - David Owen.
    > > > >
    > > > > I got that far. I just can't understand why it was the one and only fact you would pluck out in a post announcing his death, rather than the fact he was a former MP, journalist, academic and broadcaster.
    > > >
    > > > Well - that stems from the BBC article giving details of his passing.His wife sstated that he was a firm Brexiteer and that he will have regretted not living to see Brexit.
    > >
    > > shouldnt you be celevratiing ?
    > >
    > > old bloke dies, voted Brexit hurrah etc
    > >
    > > I mean this is what the age spite means
    >
    > I do not have strong views on the EU one way or the other - though I voted Leave.

    ah apols, I had you as a remainer, i just dont get the we hate oldies theme, youd think the younger lot hadnt figured out it will be them one day
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:


    ydoethur said:

    So you're saying Cyclefree has a bigger butt, just to be clear?

    Umm, yes.

    I think I have made an ass of myself...
    You have. But I forgive you. Mine is not as big as your seven.

    Where are you living anyway?? Chatsworth???
    They are all quite small, and I do not have a workable outside tap.

    Plus I confess I have a weakness for hydrangeas.
    Ah! I grew a white hydrangea in a pot last year. Stunning.

    I put in automatic watering pipes when I redid the garden a few years ago but never use them as I love watering the garden myself, plus all my many pots of agapanthus (my weakness). And the dog loves being sprayed while I do it. I mulch a lot as well which helps avoid water loss.

    I've got three water butts of 150 litres each, plus four of 200. Capacity of 1250 litres.

    But my garden is not only thirsty due to the aforementioned weakness, it faces due South and has little or no shade.
    Snap! Mine is due south as well, though there is some shade next to the garden office, which is where I have all my ferns. I tend to grow plants that can cope with sunny conditions: figs, grapes, olives, euphorbia etc.. But the roses thrive, in part, I think because I put lots of effort into giving them a really good root system.

    The garden in the Lake District will be a challenge - on a hill, windy and not far from the sea - but I am nothing if not determined.
    Terracing would be lovely
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Seems wrong not to give Brexit Hardman Steve Baker his full title.

    And who counts as a Leaver anyway. Leavers who are happy with CU or Mays' deal are out persumably, and yet Boris is still a major candidate despite backing the latter.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    > @Scott_P said:
    > https://twitter.com/whatukthinks/status/1127622632357101575

    Discouraging. People less willing to compromise, not more.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    Here's an interesting piece:

    Your 5G Phone Won’t Hurt You. But Russia Wants You to Think Otherwise. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/12/science/5g-phone-safety-health-russia.html
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,710
    > @kle4 said:
    > > @Scott_P said:
    > > https://twitter.com/whatukthinks/status/1127622632357101575
    >
    > Discouraging. People less willing to compromise, not more.

    To be fair of the 4 options graphed there one is "don't know" and one is "delay" (which probably everyone can agree on either side we've already done plenty of), so in a sense it's not entirely surprising that the two options of revoke or no deal effectively hoover up all the additional support.

    There isn't really the space in that question/answer format for much else.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    rcs1000 said:

    Here's an interesting piece:



    Your 5G Phone Won’t Hurt You. But Russia Wants You to Think Otherwise. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/12/science/5g-phone-safety-health-russia.html

    Are Russia behind Vanilla Forums' recent travails as well?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    > @rcs1000 said:
    > Here's an interesting piece:
    >
    > Your 5G Phone Won’t Hurt You. But Russia Wants You to Think Otherwise. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/12/science/5g-phone-safety-health-russia.html

    It is lucky President Trump has just increased the cost of rolling out 5g with his trade war, then.
  • > @Gardenwalker said:
    > https://twitter.com/thatginamiller/status/1127507492701900800

    The same Gina Miller who described herself as neither a leave nor a remain campaigner?
  • dyingswandyingswan Posts: 189
    There have been 41 elections in Wales since World War One. General Elections, European and Welsh Assembly. For the first time in a hundred years I think that the Labour Party face a resounding defeat. Wales will vote Brexit Party by some margin on May 23. Just as we voted out in 2016. The impact of that result could well be profound.
    Wales can no longer be taken for granted by Labour. Like the North of England voting patterns have changed perhaps for the long term.

    r
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    The OED defines guru as
    1) A Hindu or Sikh spiritual teacher.
    2) An influential teacher or popular expert.

    Steve Baker MP ????
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    I think a Leaver will likely make the final 2 as once one Leaver is knocked out there support will largely go to one of the remaining Leaver candidates standing. If Baker is the last Leaver standing he would then likely win the membership vote in a Corbyn like rise
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    > @Charles said:

    >

    > Except the most reliable sources of tidal energy are in Scotland and apparently the union can not be guaranteed



    We're gonna need a bigger union.

    Warning everyone: we have a dull obsessive on the site
    You mean some of us aren’t?
    You and I share an obsession with Graham Kendrick perhaps.
    I’ve just come out from hearing New College Choir sing the Howells Gloucester Service.

    Next to that, Mr Kendrick seems... rather inconsequential?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:


    ydoethur said:

    So you're saying Cyclefree has a bigger butt, just to be clear?

    Umm, yes.

    I think I have made an ass of myself...
    You have. But I forgive you. Mine is not as big as your seven.

    Where are you living anyway?? Chatsworth???
    They are all quite small, and I do not have a workable outside tap.

    Plus I confess I have a weakness for hydrangeas.
    Ah! I grew a white hydrangea in a pot last year. Stunning.

    I put in automatic watering pipes when I redid the garden a few years ago but never use them as I love watering the garden myself, plus all my many pots of agapanthus (my weakness). And the dog loves being sprayed while I do it. I mulch a lot as well which helps avoid water loss.

    I've got three water butts of 150 litres each, plus four of 200. Capacity of 1250 litres.

    But my garden is not only thirsty due to the aforementioned weakness, it faces due South and has little or no shade.
    Snap! Mine is due south as well, though there is some shade next to the garden office, which is where I have all my ferns. I tend to grow plants that can cope with sunny conditions: figs, grapes, olives, euphorbia etc.. But the roses thrive, in part, I think because I put lots of effort into giving them a really good root system.

    The garden in the Lake District will be a challenge - on a hill, windy and not far from the sea - but I am nothing if not determined.
    Terracing would be lovely
    And bloody hard work, given the limestone that is not far below the ground.

    We’ve already excavated three rooms from out of the hillside and that was painful.

    But, yes, some form of terracing is what we’ll have; that and an orangery where I will end my days surrounded by plants and books and a piano. Bliss!
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Scott_P said:
    This isn't some general "no dissent" thing from Cherry. Joanne Cherry is spewing transphobic shit on Twitter and in parliament and is losing it when called on it by other members of the SNP.

    She's so off the rails she got in a spat with the best Mortal Kombat player in the world (who incidentally is a gay furry) a week ago on Twitter and got utterly destroyed.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914
    > @Daveyboy1961 said:
    > > @Theuniondivvie said:
    > > https://twitter.com/benjaminbutter/status/1127609244780572672
    >
    > Very droll...:)
    >

    First a plane, then a car - next the country?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    > @Charles said:

    >

    > Except the most reliable sources of tidal energy are in Scotland and apparently the union can not be guaranteed



    We're gonna need a bigger union.

    Warning everyone: we have a dull obsessive on the site
    You mean some of us aren’t?
    You and I share an obsession with Graham Kendrick perhaps.
    I’ve just come out from hearing New College Choir sing the Howells Gloucester Service.

    Next to that, Mr Kendrick seems... rather inconsequential?
    Didn't say 'obsessed' as in 'lost in admiration!'
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914
    English local election results, vote share:

    CON: 31.4%
    LAB: 26.6%
    LDEM: 16.8%
    GRN: 9.2%
    UKIP: 4.5%
    Oth: 11.4%

    Vote totals:

    Con: 2,985,959
    Lab: 2,531,907
    LDem: 1,602,042
    Grn: 878,485
    UKIP: 430,455
    Oth: 1,080,328
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:
    This isn't some general "no dissent" thing from Cherry. Joanne Cherry is spewing transphobic shit on Twitter and in parliament and is losing it when called on it by other members of the SNP.

    She's so off the rails she got in a spat with the best Mortal Kombat player in the world (who incidentally is a gay furry) a week ago on Twitter and got utterly destroyed.
    Oh wait, this is actually seperate from her transphobic nonsense. Fuck me, the SNP will be well rid of her.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    > @Charles said:

    >

    > Except the most reliable sources of tidal energy are in Scotland and apparently the union can not be guaranteed



    We're gonna need a bigger union.

    Warning everyone: we have a dull obsessive on the site
    You mean some of us aren’t?
    You and I share an obsession with Graham Kendrick perhaps.
    I’ve just come out from hearing New College Choir sing the Howells Gloucester Service.

    Next to that, Mr Kendrick seems... rather inconsequential?
    Didn't say 'obsessed' as in 'lost in admiration!'
    Well quite! (I will confess to being a bit of a Howells obsessive. Even snapped a selfie outside his house in Lydney last time I was passing...)
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    On the BBC News Brian Walden story there is an interview with Thatcher. I suggest any PBer watch it. Whilst she made many bad choices, she was never incompetent. Her steel and intelligence are clear to see in the clip. Two characteristics sorely lacking now.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    > @dyingswan said:
    > There have been 41 elections in Wales since World War One. General Elections, European and Welsh Assembly. For the first time in a hundred years I think that the Labour Party face a resounding defeat. Wales will vote Brexit Party by some margin on May 23. Just as we voted out in 2016. The impact of that result could well be profound.
    > Wales can no longer be taken for granted by Labour. Like the North of England voting patterns have changed perhaps for the long term.
    >
    > r

    Labour was only half a percent above UKIP in 2014, and it didn't presage a collapse in their representation in 2015.

    So, the Brexit Party *may* soar in Wales on the back of the European Elections. But in the UK, it's extremely rare to achieve parlimantary success without first achieving local success. (Both the Greens and the LDs only made meaningful national progress after getting bodies in counciles.)

    The risk is that the Brexit Party ends up in 2022 with 17-18%, but that's it has limited variability, resulting in poor seat conversion. The other thing to remember is that as the LDs have managed to concentrate their limited vote rather well, that the main impact of a resurgent Brexit Party is more LibDem MPs.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:
    This isn't some general "no dissent" thing from Cherry. Joanne Cherry is spewing transphobic shit on Twitter and in parliament and is losing it when called on it by other members of the SNP.

    She's so off the rails she got in a spat with the best Mortal Kombat player in the world (who incidentally is a gay furry) a week ago on Twitter and got utterly destroyed.
    What absolute bollocks, you are not right in the head Scott. Total fantasy.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:
    This isn't some general "no dissent" thing from Cherry. Joanne Cherry is spewing transphobic shit on Twitter and in parliament and is losing it when called on it by other members of the SNP.

    She's so off the rails she got in a spat with the best Mortal Kombat player in the world (who incidentally is a gay furry) a week ago on Twitter and got utterly destroyed.
    Oh wait, this is actually seperate from her transphobic nonsense. Fuck me, the SNP will be well rid of her.
    Another halfwit who obviously cannot read, transphobic my arse. Faux outrage from nutjobs.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    > @Charles said:

    >

    > Except the most reliable sources of tidal energy are in Scotland and apparently the union can not be guaranteed



    We're gonna need a bigger union.

    Warning everyone: we have a dull obsessive on the site
    You mean some of us aren’t?
    You and I share an obsession with Graham Kendrick perhaps.
    I’ve just come out from hearing New College Choir sing the Howells Gloucester Service.

    Next to that, Mr Kendrick seems... rather inconsequential?
    Didn't say 'obsessed' as in 'lost in admiration!'
    Well quite! (I will confess to being a bit of a Howells obsessive. Even snapped a selfie outside his house in Lydney last time I was passing...)
    He wrote some truly beautiful music. I think Like As The Hart is probably my favourite.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,712
    > @DecrepitJohnL said:
    > > @rcs1000 said:
    > > Here's an interesting piece:
    > >
    > > Your 5G Phone Won’t Hurt You. But Russia Wants You to Think Otherwise. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/12/science/5g-phone-safety-health-russia.html
    >
    > It is lucky President Trump has just increased the cost of rolling out 5g with his trade war, then.

    I am not one to unduly praise Trump, but one decision his administration made has probably increased competition and reduced the cost of 5G in the medium and long term.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    > @logical_song said:
    > English local election results, vote share:
    >
    > CON: 31.4%
    > LAB: 26.6%
    > LDEM: 16.8%
    > GRN: 9.2%
    > UKIP: 4.5%
    > Oth: 11.4%
    >
    > Vote totals:
    >
    > Con: 2,985,959
    > Lab: 2,531,907
    > LDem: 1,602,042
    > Grn: 878,485
    > UKIP: 430,455
    > Oth: 1,080,328

    Considering they only stood in about 15% of wards (albeit probably their best 15%), the UKIP score is quite high.

    I really think UKIP could be underestimated for the Europeans. People forget that there are no real phone polls any more. Those that answer political quiz questions for YouGov and the like are self selecting, and know far more about what's going on in the outside world than the average person.

    If you asked 100 people on the street, I'd reckon at least 20% of them would identify Nigel Farage as the leader of UKIP.

    So, for the Euros, I'm going for a combined 36% for Brexit:UKIP, and for UKIP to outperform and Brexit to underperform.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:
    This isn't some general "no dissent" thing from Cherry. Joanne Cherry is spewing transphobic shit on Twitter and in parliament and is losing it when called on it by other members of the SNP.

    She's so off the rails she got in a spat with the best Mortal Kombat player in the world (who incidentally is a gay furry) a week ago on Twitter and got utterly destroyed.
    Oh wait, this is actually seperate from her transphobic nonsense. Fuck me, the SNP will be well rid of her.
    Looks like these guys medication has kicked in, no more slavering and talking mince
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    After a long time when the Dem Nominee market on BF was showing it had learned from 2016/12 and 08 by having no strong favourite before the debates began I think Biden is becoming too favoured. His polling is undeniably excellent for this stage. But we've got a 20+ candidate field, PR for almost all delegate contests, and he's got a shaky record as a campaigner. Favourite? Yes. 5/2? I'm not sold.

    Delighted to get out of my 9-1 bet on him at such short odds though, and have my book pretty much balanced prior to the debates shaking everything up.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    > @rcs1000 said:
    > > @logical_song said:
    > > English local election results, vote share:
    > >
    > > CON: 31.4%
    > > LAB: 26.6%
    > > LDEM: 16.8%
    > > GRN: 9.2%
    > > UKIP: 4.5%
    > > Oth: 11.4%
    > >
    > > Vote totals:
    > >
    > > Con: 2,985,959
    > > Lab: 2,531,907
    > > LDem: 1,602,042
    > > Grn: 878,485
    > > UKIP: 430,455
    > > Oth: 1,080,328
    >
    > Considering they only stood in about 15% of wards (albeit probably their best 15%), the UKIP score is quite high.
    >
    > I really think UKIP could be underestimated for the Europeans. People forget that there are no real phone polls any more. Those that answer political quiz questions for YouGov and the like are self selecting, and know far more about what's going on in the outside world than the average person.
    >
    > If you asked 100 people on the street, I'd reckon at least 20% of them would identify Nigel Farage as the leader of UKIP.
    >
    > So, for the Euros, I'm going for a combined 36% for Brexit:UKIP, and for UKIP to outperform and Brexit to underperform.

    If Labour win by 2% and UKIP get a surprisingly strong showing that would be quite something, but I certainly see your logic.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    kinabalu said:

    > @justin124 said:

    > Brian Walden has died at 86. He supported Brexit - though had been an Anti- Marketeer even back in the 1960s.



    He was great on Weekend World. Used to love that prog. When all the other kids were out playing in the woods I'd be inside glued to that, watching Walden interview some prominent politician for a full hour in tremendous depth. My pals would try and get me to come out but I would always refuse if WW was on. After a while they got the message and stopped coming round. Happy days. RIP Brian.

    My housemates and I were big Walden fans. If we were out of milk we'd describe it as the 'gwavest economic cwisis since 1974'.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,573
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    > @Charles said:

    >

    > Except the most reliable sources of tidal energy are in Scotland and apparently the union can not be guaranteed



    We're gonna need a bigger union.

    Warning everyone: we have a dull obsessive on the site
    You mean some of us aren’t?
    You and I share an obsession with Graham Kendrick perhaps.
    I’ve just come out from hearing New College Choir sing the Howells Gloucester Service.

    Next to that, Mr Kendrick seems... rather inconsequential?
    Didn't say 'obsessed' as in 'lost in admiration!'
    Well quite! (I will confess to being a bit of a Howells obsessive. Even snapped a selfie outside his house in Lydney last time I was passing...)
    He wrote some truly beautiful music. I think Like As The Hart is probably my favourite.
    More Howells favourites: Te Deum from Collegium Regale; Take him, earth, for cherishing

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    > @Jonathan said:
    > On the BBC News Brian Walden story there is an interview with Thatcher. I suggest any PBer watch it. Whilst she made many bad choices, she was never incompetent. Her steel and intelligence are clear to see in the clip. Two characteristics sorely lacking now.

    Yes, Thatcher was the last UK PM who truly had global recognition and was truly heavyweight (even on a recent trip to the Middle East when I said I was from the UK someone said 'ah where Margaret Thatcher was from'). Blair was the closest we have had since but tainted by Iraq and was not a match for Thatcher's intelligence.


    RIP Brian Walden as well, a heavyweight in his own right and despite being a former Labour MP in his latter years a convinced Brexiteer
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    HYUFD said:

    RIP Brian Walden as well, a heavyweight in his own right and despite being a former Labour MP in his latter years a convinced Brexiteer

    Labour were always more Eurosceptic than the Tories back then.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    > @williamglenn said:
    > RIP Brian Walden as well, a heavyweight in his own right and despite being a former Labour MP in his latter years a convinced Brexiteer
    >
    > Labour were always more Eurosceptic than the Tories back then.

    Partly because the most pro EEC figures like Roy Jenkins and Shirley Williams defected to the SDP, the CUK of its day
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884

    HYUFD said:

    RIP Brian Walden as well, a heavyweight in his own right and despite being a former Labour MP in his latter years a convinced Brexiteer

    Labour were always more Eurosceptic than the Tories back then.
    Back when Labour actually cared about the working man and woman.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    kinabalu said:

    > @justin124 said:

    > Brian Walden has died at 86. He supported Brexit - though had been an Anti- Marketeer even back in the 1960s.



    He was great on Weekend World. Used to love that prog. When all the other kids were out playing in the woods I'd be inside glued to that, watching Walden interview some prominent politician for a full hour in tremendous depth. My pals would try and get me to come out but I would always refuse if WW was on. After a while they got the message and stopped coming round. Happy days. RIP Brian.

    I have similar memories.
    WW was the first program to persuade me politics might not be utterly tedious (remember back then they used to televise the TUC conference... incomprehensibly dull to a kid)

  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,722
    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:


    RIP Brian Walden as well, a heavyweight in his own right and despite being a former Labour MP in his latter years a convinced Brexiteer

    Labour were always more Eurosceptic than the Tories back then.
    Partly because the most pro EEC figures like Roy Jenkins and Shirley Williams defected to the SDP, the CUK of its day
    David Owen was/is Eurosceptic
    and also Peter Shore and Tony Benn inter alia.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    > @HYUFD said:
    > > @Jonathan said:
    > > On the BBC News Brian Walden story there is an interview with Thatcher. I suggest any PBer watch it. Whilst she made many bad choices, she was never incompetent. Her steel and intelligence are clear to see in the clip. Two characteristics sorely lacking now.
    >
    > Yes, Thatcher was the last UK PM who truly had global recognition and was truly heavyweight (even on a recent trip to the Middle East when I said I was from the UK someone said 'ah where Margaret Thatcher was from'). Blair was the closest we have had since but tainted by Iraq and was not a match for Thatcher's intelligence.
    >
    >
    > RIP Brian Walden as well, a heavyweight in his own right and despite being a former Labour MP in his latter years a convinced Brexiteer
    >

    In fact , Walden had been an opponent of EEC membership even in the 1960s. In no sense, was he a recent convert.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    > @HYUFD said:
    > > @williamglenn said:
    > > RIP Brian Walden as well, a heavyweight in his own right and despite being a former Labour MP in his latter years a convinced Brexiteer
    > >
    > > Labour were always more Eurosceptic than the Tories back then.
    >
    > Partly because the most pro EEC figures like Roy Jenkins and Shirley Williams defected to the SDP, the CUK of its day

    Not really. Even in the 1975 Referendum campaign, the Labour Party opposed continued membership of the EEC against the wishes of the Labour Government.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    > @Charles said:

    >

    > Except the most reliable sources of tidal energy are in Scotland and apparently the union can not be guaranteed



    We're gonna need a bigger union.

    Warning everyone: we have a dull obsessive on the site
    You mean some of us aren’t?
    You and I share an obsession with Graham Kendrick perhaps.
    I’ve just come out from hearing New College Choir sing the Howells Gloucester Service.

    Next to that, Mr Kendrick seems... rather inconsequential?
    Didn't say 'obsessed' as in 'lost in admiration!'
    Well quite! (I will confess to being a bit of a Howells obsessive. Even snapped a selfie outside his house in Lydney last time I was passing...)
    He wrote some truly beautiful music. I think Like As The Hart is probably my favourite.
    I’d completely forgotten that. Sang it many years ago in the school choir.
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 597
    > @rcs1000 said:
    > > @logical_song said:
    > > English local election results, vote share:
    > >
    > > CON: 31.4%
    > > LAB: 26.6%
    > > LDEM: 16.8%
    > > GRN: 9.2%
    > > UKIP: 4.5%
    > > Oth: 11.4%
    > >
    > > Vote totals:
    > >
    > > Con: 2,985,959
    > > Lab: 2,531,907
    > > LDem: 1,602,042
    > > Grn: 878,485
    > > UKIP: 430,455
    > > Oth: 1,080,328
    >
    > Considering they only stood in about 15% of wards (albeit probably their best 15%), the UKIP score is quite high.
    >
    > I really think UKIP could be underestimated for the Europeans. People forget that there are no real phone polls any more. Those that answer political quiz questions for YouGov and the like are self selecting, and know far more about what's going on in the outside world than the average person.
    >
    > If you asked 100 people on the street, I'd reckon at least 20% of them would identify Nigel Farage as the leader of UKIP.
    >
    > So, for the Euros, I'm going for a combined 36% for Brexit:UKIP, and for UKIP to outperform and Brexit to underperform.

    There has to be some name recognition value left in the UKIP brand if nothing else, which ironically Farage now has to dismantle having spent most of his political life building it up.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    > @geoffw said:
    > RIP Brian Walden as well, a heavyweight in his own right and despite being a former Labour MP in his latter years a convinced Brexiteer
    >
    > Labour were always more Eurosceptic than the Tories back then.
    >
    > Partly because the most pro EEC figures like Roy Jenkins and Shirley Williams defected to the SDP, the CUK of its day
    >
    > David Owen was/is Eurosceptic
    > and also Peter Shore and Tony Benn inter alia.

    If he was in the 1980s, he kept quiet about it. Being pro-EU was a key driving force for the SDP split.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    edited May 2019
    Keir Starmer interview in the Guardian . He sounds pretty underwhelmed by the talks so far.

    Corbyn needs to realize if Starmer quits as Brexit Secretary Remainers stampede for the exit will follow .

    He is seen as the champion of a second vote . Without him Labour Remain voters will know the game is up .
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    > @Sunil_Prasannan said:
    > RIP Brian Walden as well, a heavyweight in his own right and despite being a former Labour MP in his latter years a convinced Brexiteer
    >
    > Labour were always more Eurosceptic than the Tories back then.
    >
    > Back when Labour actually cared about the working man and woman.

    In what way did they cease to care? I am not a Labour supporter but am interested in your reasons for them not caring.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    > @nico67 said:
    > Keir Starmer interview in the Guardian . He sounds pretty underwhelmed by the talks so far.
    >
    > Corbyn needs to realize if Starmer quits as Brexit Secretary Remainers stampede for the exit will follow .
    >
    > He is seen as the champion of a second vote . Without him Labour Remain voters will know the game is up .

    I have given up on Labour supporting a second vote anyway. It is why I am not going to vote for them in the European election other than to vote Labour would just encourage Corbyn!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    > @The_Taxman said:
    > > @Sunil_Prasannan said:
    > > RIP Brian Walden as well, a heavyweight in his own right and despite being a former Labour MP in his latter years a convinced Brexiteer
    > >
    > > Labour were always more Eurosceptic than the Tories back then.
    > >
    > > Back when Labour actually cared about the working man and woman.
    >
    > In what way did they cease to care? I am not a Labour supporter but am interested in your reasons for them not caring.

    I guess the argument is that today's metropolitan, latte-sipping middle class Labour Party is obsessed with issues such as Israel-Palestine rather than what matters to working class men and women.

    How a policy of increasing the minimum wage for teenagers fits this argument I'm not sure.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    > @The_Taxman said:
    > > @nico67 said:
    > > Keir Starmer interview in the Guardian . He sounds pretty underwhelmed by the talks so far.
    > >
    > > Corbyn needs to realize if Starmer quits as Brexit Secretary Remainers stampede for the exit will follow .
    > >
    > > He is seen as the champion of a second vote . Without him Labour Remain voters will know the game is up .
    >
    > I have given up on Labour supporting a second vote anyway. It is why I am not going to vote for them in the European election other than to vote Labour would just encourage Corbyn!

    I’ll be voting Lib Dem . But Labour Remainers still sticking by the party will desert in droves if Starmer quits .
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    > @nico67 said:
    > Labour will be lucky to scrape 20% at the Euro elections . They’re taking Remainers for mugs but have run out of road now .
    >
    > I feel sorry for some excellent candidates running for MEP but a vote for Labour is now a vote for more fence sitting , Remainers are supposed to be grateful for a few crumbs off the table by way of the option of a second vote , but come the time Corbyn and his cronies will find another fence to sit on. Enough !


    A Tory vote or a Labour vote is a Wasted Vote. No-one will know what you mean by it, and when they guess, you probably won’t like it.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    > @SandyRentool said:
    > > @The_Taxman said:
    > > > @Sunil_Prasannan said:
    > > > RIP Brian Walden as well, a heavyweight in his own right and despite being a former Labour MP in his latter years a convinced Brexiteer
    > > >
    > > > Labour were always more Eurosceptic than the Tories back then.
    > > >
    > > > Back when Labour actually cared about the working man and woman.
    > >
    > > In what way did they cease to care? I am not a Labour supporter but am interested in your reasons for them not caring.
    >
    > I guess the argument is that today's metropolitan, latte-sipping middle class Labour Party is obsessed with issues such as Israel-Palestine rather than what matters to working class men and women.
    >
    > How a policy of increasing the minimum wage for teenagers fits this argument I'm not sure.

    Exactly! People just spout cliché after cliché with no objective argument to support it. What do people expect? Labour make everyone billionaires?
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