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Telegraph 2009
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“ Never mind that, just listen to what Farage himself says. This shouldn't be about Alex Jones (of whom hardly anyone in the UK has heard), but Farage..
I'm not defending Farage, he shouldn't be speaking to Jones or be saying such things. That said I do wonder how much of it Farage genuinely believes and how much is him playing up to what his host expects from a guest...”
How much of anything he ever says does Farage actually believe ?
> Save us from yet another Etonian.
The sins of the fathers should be visited upon the sons?
Very progressive and compassionate!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QytfYyHmxtc
> @SirBenjamin said:
> > @Richard_Nabavi said:
> > > @DecrepitJohnL said:
> >
> > >
> > > The worst prime minister since Lord North was David Cameron, who contrived by his own efforts to lose Europe shortly after almost losing Scotland. In neither case was he the victim of adverse circumstance: no oil price shock, no foreign invasion, no global financial crisis; just Cameron's own decisions. Theresa May is the worst since Cameron, but that is not saying much as she is also the first.
> >
> > 2010-2016 was the golden age of government. No-one reading this will see a better government in their lifetime, as I haven't (apart from the very special case of Maggie) in mine.
>
>
> Agreed. I fear that it is closest thing to a Libertarian government that we shall ever see. For shame.
—————————-
2010-15, really, which is the key point. He thrived in coalition and it suited him greatly, giving him the cover to do many of the things he wanted but would otherwise have been unable to do. Ultimately his failure was not having the courage or strength to be his own man and turn his party in his direction, instead hiding behind the coalition, and not having the convictions to carry through on what he achieved. Such that when he got his unexpected majority, everything fell apart. Just like our EU membership, he had to appear to tolerate rather than embrace coalition, not realising how good for him it was until it was gone. Seen like this, Brexit is part of a bigger picture rather than merely a costly aberration.
The only way he’s likely to become next leader is if May stays for a decade until it’s all over. That seems.... implausible.
But as Alastair states below, the membership won't go for someone so lightweight on Brexit - and Brexit is the prism through which Conservative politics has been viewed for the last three decades.
Brexit is the Conservative party's mental illness, causing it to do things that are actively harmful to itself and those around it.
But I have to ask why anyone would want to be PM: the public apparently want the PM to be 'one of us', yet without any of our flaws - hence better and superior to us. The pay for any candidate of quality is low, and they get sh*t thrown at them from all sides.
And Boris is the fox, aiming to strike on any comely little lambs, whilst Fox is the pile of manure in the field's corner.
I think he would have a better prospect of bringing both wings of the party together than almost anyone else. Doesn't mean it is possible of course. I also think, equally importantly, that he could bring an element of courtesy and mutual respect back to our politics. That would be welcome after the hyperbole of the last several years.
> I have really liked Stewart's contributions to the Brexit debate. He has been nuanced, open to debate, persuasive and tried to build a consensus. Very, very few have done the same right up to our current PM. She made yet another major error in not appointing him Brexit Secretary on the several occasions that she had the opportunity.
>
> I think he would have a better prospect of bringing both wings of the party together than almost anyone else. Doesn't mean it is possible of course. I also think, equally importantly, that he could bring an element of courtesy and mutual respect back to our politics. That would be welcome after the hyperbole of the last several years.
Do you mean he would genuinely adopt a kinder gentler politics?
> > @DavidL said:
> > I have really liked Stewart's contributions to the Brexit debate. He has been nuanced, open to debate, persuasive and tried to build a consensus. Very, very few have done the same right up to our current PM. She made yet another major error in not appointing him Brexit Secretary on the several occasions that she had the opportunity.
> >
> > I think he would have a better prospect of bringing both wings of the party together than almost anyone else. Doesn't mean it is possible of course. I also think, equally importantly, that he could bring an element of courtesy and mutual respect back to our politics. That would be welcome after the hyperbole of the last several years.
>
> Do you mean he would genuinely adopt a kinder gentler politics?
Yes I suppose I do. He really has no chance does he? Carefully crafted sound bite personal invective along with bland, meaningless slogans is clearly the way to go.
Possible, but other contenders have their bandwagons already.
Hardly, Mr Dancer. Most of the Conservative Party hopefuls are prime exhibits in the politics freakshow that is current touring the country.
IDS or Howard?
> He's too remainy for the tory party members which is not sufficiently counterbalanced by his 18.5 weeks of service in the Black Jocks. He is too weird and geeky looking for the voters so, all in all, no fucking chance.
Yup. And not sure how much the nation wants another Eton/Oxford PM.
> The Party has had enough of centre-lefties, more than enough, and wants a new leader from the right next time.
>
> Which was your favourite right wing election winner?
>
> IDS or Howard?
The next leader will be Mark Francois.
> FPT
> “ Never mind that, just listen to what Farage himself says. This shouldn't be about Alex Jones (of whom hardly anyone in the UK has heard), but Farage..
>
> I'm not defending Farage, he shouldn't be speaking to Jones or be saying such things. That said I do wonder how much of it Farage genuinely believes and how much is him playing up to what his host expects from a guest...”
>
> How much of anything he ever says does Farage actually believe ?
>
Had to look this up.
"The interview sparked outrage online, with LBC colleague James O'Brien tweeting: "If you appear on Infowars you are legitimising an odious platform that maligns the parents of murdered schoolchildren [and] dishonours the memory of everyone killed in the 9/11 attacks.
"Racist f***nuggetry is one thing, this is a whole new level of disgusting, even for Farage."
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/outrage-over-nigel-farages-disgusting-appearance-on-show-hosted-by-conspiracy-theorist-alex-jones-a3813886.html
> The next leader will be Mark Francois.
>
> But we're being told the Tories won't accept a Remainer.
Well if he is that's my vote gone for the duration
> > @CarlottaVance said:
> > The Party has had enough of centre-lefties, more than enough, and wants a new leader from the right next time.
> >
> > Which was your favourite right wing election winner?
> >
> > IDS or Howard?
>
> The next leader will be Mark Francois.
The membership would vote for him, but even the Tory MPs are not daft enough to have him in the final two.
Stewart is simply too ugly to be Prime Minister, Superficial but true.
I'm, not saying Stewart will be next leader/PM; the party has gone too nuts for that. It's just that he perhaps should be, and should certainly be in the running.
Instead, the MPs and members will vote on the basis of purity of Europhobia, which will be a recipe for disaster for the party and the country.
On Stewart more seriously on a political level he certainly deserved promotion and ive seen snippets of him speaking sense on a compelljbgcand convincing way. But he is pretty unknown, and his pragmatic lack of pragmatism ruins him in the eyes of members (by which I mean he wants a pragmatic approach and is not obfuscation about his pragmatism).
Whether he has the quality who the hell knows but Dura Ace is not the only one ive seen deride his time in Iraq.
You see, it doesn't matter: like Corbyn, those who dislike Farage will tut and show their disgust (rightly, IMO), whilst those who worship him will excuse, play down and deny.
Such behaviour is priced in, and all it does is give his name continued prominence.
> > @Sean_F said:
> > > @CarlottaVance said:
> > > The Party has had enough of centre-lefties, more than enough, and wants a new leader from the right next time.
> > >
> > > Which was your favourite right wing election winner?
> > >
> > > IDS or Howard?
> >
> > The next leader will be Mark Francois.
>
> The membership would vote for him, but even the Tory MPs are not daft enough to have him in the final two.
>
> Stewart is simply too ugly to be Prime Minister, Superficial but true.
Poor guy looks like a ventriloquist dummy after a fire in a children's home. On topic what odds are still available for him?
He looks a bit how one might imagine a teenage Yoda.
> If it's not too personal a question to ask, I'm curious as to how many bets at odds greater than, or equal to, 50-1 our esteemed host has made?
50!
(Yes, yes, its not really leaving, whatever- not even the ERG majority believed that, as they proved by voting for it)
> Whether he has the quality who the hell knows but Dura Ace is not the only one ive seen deride his time in Iraq.
I think the British public are unlikely to be grateful to be reminded of that debacle.
And Cameron did really well, didn’t he
> The next leader will be Mark Francois.
>
> But we're being told the Tories won't accept a Remainer.
He proves his zeal for Brexit by voting against it.
> > @kle4 said:
>
> > Whether he has the quality who the hell knows but Dura Ace is not the only one ive seen deride his time in Iraq.
>
> I think the British public are unlikely to be grateful to be reminded of that debacle.
And take being Governor of Iraq at 29. Regardless of whether he was good at it (though everyone 'knows' Iraq was a debacle so the answer is unlikely to be thought of as positive) having a Governor aged under 30 is more likely to be seen as part of the lack of preparation for the Occupation rather than as a mark of particular ability on his part.
You are assessing him for the wrong job. He is a campaigner, an agitator, a change maker not a leader of a country. We are incredibly fortunate to have someone doing that for the Brexit cause who is neither a fascist nor a Marxist.
BTW, leaders, including ours, associate with offensive people and then don't shun them.
> Stewart looks a little like Lee Evans to me for some reason.
With the right beard he could pass for Abraham Lincoln.
> Fpt:
>
> > @SirBenjamin said:
> > > @Richard_Nabavi said:
> > > > @DecrepitJohnL said:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > The worst prime minister since Lord North was David Cameron, who contrived by his own efforts to lose Europe shortly after almost losing Scotland. In neither case was he the victim of adverse circumstance: no oil price shock, no foreign invasion, no global financial crisis; just Cameron's own decisions. Theresa May is the worst since Cameron, but that is not saying much as she is also the first.
> > >
> > > 2010-2016 was the golden age of government. No-one reading this will see a better government in their lifetime, as I haven't (apart from the very special case of Maggie) in mine.
> >
> >
> > Agreed. I fear that it is closest thing to a Libertarian government that we shall ever see. For shame.
> —————————-
> 2010-15, really, which is the key point. He thrived in coalition and it suited him greatly, giving him the cover to do many of the things he wanted but would otherwise have been unable to do. Ultimately his failure was not having the courage or strength to be his own man and turn his party in his direction, instead hiding behind the coalition, and not having the convictions to carry through on what he achieved. Such that when he got his unexpected majority, everything fell apart. Just like our EU membership, he had to appear to tolerate rather than embrace coalition, not realising how good for him it was until it was gone. Seen like this, Brexit is part of a bigger picture rather than merely a costly aberration.
>
>
The coalition years sowed the seeds.
Triple locking pensions and tripling student fees
A trillion quid borrowed with a consequent increase in the current account deficit
Subsidised house prices and falling home ownership
International posturing and Middle Eastern warmongering
Uncontrolled immigration and vanity projects
> > @Sean_F said:
> > > @CarlottaVance said:
> > > The Party has had enough of centre-lefties, more than enough, and wants a new leader from the right next time.
> > >
> > > Which was your favourite right wing election winner?
> > >
> > > IDS or Howard?
> >
> > The next leader will be Mark Francois.
>
> The membership would vote for him, but even the Tory MPs are not daft enough to have him in the final two.
>
> Stewart is simply too ugly to be Prime Minister, Superficial but true.
I think you're right.
> I can’t see how he is convincingly going to persuade the membership that he is sufficiently demented about Brexit and he isn’t going to be unopposed. So he remains a longshot, irrespective of his talents.
>
> Agreed..
> The only way he’s likely to become next leader is if May stays for a decade until it’s all over. That seems.... implausible.
You sure? Have you been studying Mrs May's approach to politics...?
> Rory seems a little remote and intellectual to be Tory leader. Can’t quite see him rallying the troops with red meat.
After the years of May's vegan sausage rolls, the Party is going to be looking for the political full English....
However, I can't see a way gets passed the membership vote realistically.
Maybe he is the one for after the chaos of a Boris premiership?
> After the years of May's vegan sausage rolls, the Party is going to be looking for the political full English....
>
> And the subsequent heart attack
The "heart attack" would surely be appoint a full blooded Brexiteer
What a waste of hot air.
> Is Stewart sufficiently 'one of us'? According to Wikipedia he seriously thought about which party he should join in order to get into Parliament and was advised to join the Tories, since, in 2008 or so, Labour was obviously running out of steam.
>
> A Conservative by convenience rather than conviction. Should be a no-hoper.
Quite. Had to go and have my breakfast immediately after posting, but the thought went through my mind that while those of May's and Corbyn's persuasions are wildly unlikely to see operation with each other as a realistic prospect, the likes of Starmer and Stewart would take a different view.
What in real substance are the fundamental differences between a moderate centrist Tory (Clarke, Spelman) and a moderate centrist Labour person (Kendall, Hilary Benn) - ignoring the rhetoric? It is quite rational for someone wanting a career in politics to think the party thing through, otherwise only extremists would join up. Rory Stewart happens to be honest and thoughtful. It means he can't be leader but he will still serve us well.
Do we know any names?
> If Rory has announced he intends to run, then presumably he has some kind of backing from backbench MPs? Maybe only a few, but must have at least enough to do some of the background organizing and whipping for a pitch.
>
> Do we know any names?
The soft Brexit/remainer contingent maybe -
Letwin, Soames, Hammond (Both of them) ?
But also there are usually some young, hungry MPs as well, who can do the legwork and expect reward in a future administration.
> > @geoffw said:
>
> > Is Stewart sufficiently 'one of us'? According to Wikipedia he seriously thought about which party he should join in order to get into Parliament and was advised to join the Tories, since, in 2008 or so, Labour was obviously running out of steam.
>
> >
>
> > A Conservative by convenience rather than conviction. Should be a no-hoper.
>
>
>
> Quite. Had to go and have my breakfast immediately after posting, but the thought went through my mind that while those of May's and Corbyn's persuasions are wildly unlikely to see operation with each other as a realistic prospect, the likes of Starmer and Stewart would take a different view.
>
>
> What in real substance are the fundamental differences between a moderate centrist Tory (Clarke, Spelman) and a moderate centrist Labour person (Kendall, Hilary Benn) - ignoring the rhetoric? It is quite rational for someone wanting a career in politics to think the party thing through, otherwise only extremists would join up. Rory Stewart happens to be honest and thoughtful. It means he can't be leader but he will still serve us well.
I don't disagree; I would far rather have people who can disagree on some things, even have a different philosophy but still agree and co-operate on others.
However, while you and I clearly agree on the point, there are, I fear, others who do not. And such people are more frequently found at the top of politics today than in the past.
> Rory-watching is one of pb's stranger peccadilloes
Rory-mania on pb dates from that curious time when any old soldier was proposed as a future party leader, normally with a note about a good back-story. Dan Jarvis was one for Labour.
> Fpt:
>
> > @SirBenjamin said:
> > > @Richard_Nabavi said:
> > > > @DecrepitJohnL said:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > The worst prime minister since Lord North was David Cameron, who contrived by his own efforts to lose Europe shortly after almost losing Scotland. In neither case was he the victim of adverse circumstance: no oil price shock, no foreign invasion, no global financial crisis; just Cameron's own decisions. Theresa May is the worst since Cameron, but that is not saying much as she is also the first.
> > >
> > > 2010-2016 was the golden age of government. No-one reading this will see a better government in their lifetime, as I haven't (apart from the very special case of Maggie) in mine.
> >
> >
> > Agreed. I fear that it is closest thing to a Libertarian government that we shall ever see. For shame.
> —————————-
> 2010-15, really, which is the key point. He thrived in coalition and it suited him greatly, giving him the cover to do many of the things he wanted but would otherwise have been unable to do. Ultimately his failure was not having the courage or strength to be his own man and turn his party in his direction, instead hiding behind the coalition, and not having the convictions to carry through on what he achieved. Such that when he got his unexpected majority, everything fell apart. Just like our EU membership, he had to appear to tolerate rather than embrace coalition, not realising how good for him it was until it was gone. Seen like this, Brexit is part of a bigger picture rather than merely a costly aberration.
>
>
-------------------------------
"Ultimately his failure was not having the courage or strength to be his own man and turn his party in his direction."
Precisely. He appeased the nutters when he could, and should, have challenged them. A catastrophic failure of courage and judgement.
> Stewart gives every impression of being rational, smart and prepared to compromise. I’d say 100-1 is too short a price.
That may well be so. But a number of the MPs and members who he needs to persuade give every impression of being everything but rational, smart and prepared to compromise. So I'm with Mr Meeks on this. He remains a long shot. Sadly.
Therea's got the "Men in grey suits" calling round today then?
> Rory-mania on pb dates from that curious time when any old soldier was proposed as a future party leader, normally with a note about a good back-story. Dan Jarvis was one for Labour.
Military people often seem to get talked up in politics, but then it doesn't happen. Wesley Clark was another one.
That said, I'm endorsing Dura Ace for any office he chooses to run for.
> Morning PB,
>
> Therea's got the "Men in grey suits" calling round today then?
She could always do an IDS and threaten to put them in a telephone box and strip them naked.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/under-siege-in-fortress-tory-zgnmdn095cf
> Hate to be shallow but Rory Stewart really does not have the look. Narrow shoulders, short and slight of frame, a face that is distinctly interesting. His voice is rather unusual too. Good guy, though, I like him a lot. On TV, that is, since that is all the direct evidence I have. Wonder what he's like to work for? I would like to know because this, for me, is an acid test of someone's character. Does he get results by inspiring people or by bullying them? Is he a prince among men or is he a little shit?
IIRC Dura Ace, who claims (I think) to have some experience of him, doesn't rate him that highly.
However, I may be wrong, and if so I'm sure someone will correct me!
Still think the odds are against him but it is not inconceivable, depending on what happens in the next few months, that an outsider might sneak through.
What is the world coming to?
> > @Scott_P said:
> > After the years of May's vegan sausage rolls, the Party is going to be looking for the political full English....
> >
> > And the subsequent heart attack
>
> The "heart attack" would surely be appoint a full blooded Brexiteer
The chunky rashers might be mistaken by some for gammon.....
> I see the chattering classes have resumed their 'shock, horror....he must explain himself'..... dirt digging on Farage and anybody who gets involved with the Brexit Party.
>
> Predictable, pointless, pathetic and piss poor strategy as well, simply because if you have been awake at all over the last 10 years, every pointless attack on him is just supercharging his message, and the now mainstream view that he is the 'only' one that can address the attack on our democracy.
*
"Dear radsatser,
How should we deal with Nigel Farage then?
Yours sincerely
The Chattering Classes"