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  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    timmo said:

    Out canvassing in Surrey heartlands over the weekend..real anger. A lot of expletives on the doorstep. Tories heading for a voters strike. Could be a lot of independants elected in areas.

    Whats the point in voting Tory, they stand for nothing.
    The problem is that they stand for everything...
    Do they still stand for the National Anthem? Or is that just UKIP?
    I think they still stand

    https://youtu.be/FN7r0Rr1Qyc
    That song has to be the most disturbing ever in any musical.
    It was actually written by two Jews!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,703
    justin124 said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    timmo said:

    Out canvassing in Surrey heartlands over the weekend..real anger. A lot of expletives on the doorstep. Tories heading for a voters strike. Could be a lot of independants elected in areas.

    Whats the point in voting Tory, they stand for nothing.
    The problem is that they stand for everything...
    Do they still stand for the National Anthem? Or is that just UKIP?
    I think they still stand

    https://youtu.be/FN7r0Rr1Qyc
    That song has to be the most disturbing ever in any musical.
    It was actually written by two Jews!
    Part of the problem is it's so good.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    FF43 said:

    kjohnw said:

    So is the PB consensus that Brexit is not happening and there is no chance of No Deal now .

    Probably leave with a deal, possibly after months' delay. No Deal is possible, but almost certainly chaotic and not an end state so sensible people will reject that route. I doubt many Remainers or Leavers will see Brexit as a success.
    No Remainers will ever admit Brexit has been a success.

    Just, never.
    It depends what you class as a success . The loss of freedom of movement means for me it can never be a success. I will always detest Brexit because the UK has walked out on its neighbours and is a total betrayal of the younger generation.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    FF43 said:

    kjohnw said:

    So is the PB consensus that Brexit is not happening and there is no chance of No Deal now .

    Probably leave with a deal, possibly after months' delay. No Deal is possible, but almost certainly chaotic and not an end state so sensible people will reject that route. I doubt many Remainers or Leavers will see Brexit as a success.
    Tbf I doubt any Remainers were ever likely to see any Brexit as a success, which is another reason why there should have been a 2/3 threshold or similar for a constitutional referendum like EURef.

    Brexit was always going to face an outcome where the majority were unhappy since it only takes a small proportion of Leave voters not to get the Brexit they envisaged to add to the unhappy Remainers. (And that's ignoring the 28% who did not vote at all.)
    In principle I disagree with you. If Brexit had been as easy and cost-free as Leavers claimed and delivered a tolerable independent policy for the UK, Remainers would have at least acquiesced in Brexit. Many would accept a decision they had voted against, but which was supported by the majority. There is polling evidence that such a shift did actually happen in the six months following the referendum.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Mr. Dawning, voting to leave the EU being interpreted as asking the EU to dictate our trade policy, contrary to both sides in the campaign, is ridiculous.

    It also gives them power to harm our economy as they'll be determining our trade policy without any influence whatsoever.

    There comes a point where compromise means compromising on the result the voters decided, and the customs union is that point. At least those advocating we remain are more honest and less wretched than those who want us to leave in name only.

    I've said all along, include months before the vote, that the customs union was the only 'red line' I had. It's a demented approach.

    Give it a few years and we can pull out of a customs union
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    kinabalu said:

    A couple of weeks ago I was pretty sure Brexit was in the throes of its death rattle.

    Not for a moment did I expect Labour to revive it so it could get over the line.

    Corbyn will be a hero in the midlands/northern Brexit heartlands.

    It would be better in a sense if Jeremy gets into number 10 through those sort of votes rather than those of southern poncy types. Or would it? And in what sense exactly?
    As a R4 programme explained the Remain/Leave cultural divide isn't the Right/Left cultural divide. By and large, it's the socially liberal and well-educated, e.g. Oxford or Cheltenham vs. the socially-conservative and less-educated, e.g. Plymouth or Portsmouth.

    How about the better-off investigating how the other half live and improving the lives of people instead of pontificating on how 'no-one votes to make themselves poorer'? People vote very strangely if they think they have nothing to lose. Once this is understood, Corbyn can stop talking bollocks about 'a good Brexit'.
    The Old Families already know this. It’s the current establishment that have forgotten their duty to serve and protect
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,537

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    timmo said:

    Out canvassing in Surrey heartlands over the weekend..real anger. A lot of expletives on the doorstep. Tories heading for a voters strike. Could be a lot of independants elected in areas.

    Whats the point in voting Tory, they stand for nothing.
    The problem is that they stand for everything...
    Do they still stand for the National Anthem? Or is that just UKIP?
    I think they still stand

    https://youtu.be/FN7r0Rr1Qyc
    That song has to be the most disturbing ever in any musical.
    Yes. It's frighteningly good, because it doesn't portray the Nazis just as thuggish idiots but as dangerously, menacingly idealistic.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    A couple of weeks ago I was pretty sure Brexit was in the throes of its death rattle.

    Not for a moment did I expect Labour to revive it so it could get over the line.

    Corbyn will be a hero in the midlands/northern Brexit heartlands.

    What has Corbyn done to change things?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720

    FF43 said:

    kjohnw said:

    So is the PB consensus that Brexit is not happening and there is no chance of No Deal now .

    Probably leave with a deal, possibly after months' delay. No Deal is possible, but almost certainly chaotic and not an end state so sensible people will reject that route. I doubt many Remainers or Leavers will see Brexit as a success.
    No Remainers will ever admit Brexit has been a success.

    Just, never.
    I will declare Brexit a success when @Casino_Royale, @Charles, and @rcs1000 say they would vote to stay in the EU.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    timmo said:

    Out canvassing in Surrey heartlands over the weekend..real anger. A lot of expletives on the doorstep. Tories heading for a voters strike. Could be a lot of independants elected in areas.

    Could we see the biggest Con meltdown since 1995 in this years locals? :D
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,042
    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    A couple of weeks ago I was pretty sure Brexit was in the throes of its death rattle.

    Not for a moment did I expect Labour to revive it so it could get over the line.

    Corbyn will be a hero in the midlands/northern Brexit heartlands.

    It would be better in a sense if Jeremy gets into number 10 through those sort of votes rather than those of southern poncy types. Or would it? And in what sense exactly?
    As a R4 programme explained the Remain/Leave cultural divide isn't the Right/Left cultural divide. By and large, it's the socially liberal and well-educated, e.g. Oxford or Cheltenham vs. the socially-conservative and less-educated, e.g. Plymouth or Portsmouth.

    How about the better-off investigating how the other half live and improving the lives of people instead of pontificating on how 'no-one votes to make themselves poorer'? People vote very strangely if they think they have nothing to lose. Once this is understood, Corbyn can stop talking bollocks about 'a good Brexit'.
    The Old Families already know this. It’s the current establishment that have forgotten their duty to serve and protect
    'Old Families'. I'm not going to say what I think to that as I want to carry on being able to post here.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    GIN1138 said:

    timmo said:

    Out canvassing in Surrey heartlands over the weekend..real anger. A lot of expletives on the doorstep. Tories heading for a voters strike. Could be a lot of independants elected in areas.

    Could we see the biggest Con meltdown since 1995 in this years locals? :D
    Unlikely to be anything like as bad as 1995 or 1996.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406

    kjohnw said:

    So is the PB consensus that Brexit is not happening and there is no chance of No Deal now .

    Accidental No Deal is still a possibility in my view but May is clearly set against it (else we'd have gone by now).

    Her request for a further extension and recognition that we might need to hold EU elections; her decision to talk to Labour; the HoC majority against No Deal; Merkel's clear preference to avoid No Deal; the likely passage of the Cooper Bill; the lack of a seismic backlash in the Newport West by-election; the ineptitude of the ERG... all these things point away from No Deal.

    I'd say the chances currently are:

    1. No Deal 5%
    2. May's Deal 10%
    3. May's Deal + CU 25%
    4. May's Deal + CU + PV 50%...
    (leading to:
    4i. Brexit 25%
    4ii. Revoke 25%)
    5. Straight Revoke (possibly after several long extensions) 10%

    So adding 3. + 4i. Brexit with May's Deal + CU = 50% overall
    And adding 4ii. + 5. Revoke and therefore Remain* = 35% overall
    Brexit with May Deal (no CU) 10% and
    No Deal 5%

    (*If we Revoke, that will be it - there's no Revoke now and re-invoke A50 next year imo.)

    4ii isn't possible - we can't revoke once we've left and once we sign May's Deal we've left.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    I blame the hardcore Leavers for polarizing Remainers .

    There was a chance more people could have just moved on but as the no deal nutjobs peddled their narrative not only were Remainers expected to get on board with leaving but were then being told they should accept a no deal and total rupture with the EU .

    It says a lot for the Mogg cabal that they have no intention at all of trying to bring the country together , that all that matters to them is their version of Brexit which they now claim to be what all Leavers voted for .

    I have no problem with Leavers who want to exit in an orderly way with a deal, sadly this group is falling as the ERG no deal fantasy seems to have become engrained in many .

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,537
    edited April 2019
    Foxy said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:
    Peter Oborne is talking bollocks, he writes

    As the end has come closer she’s turned into a shapeshifter, like the android assassin in the final stages of the second ‘Terminator’ film, moving desperately from one Brexit model to another.

    ANDROID? He was a cyborg.


    [1] Godsdammit, there isn't a real difference between an alternate reality, an alternate history, and a mirror universe. Not that I'm bitter and twisted or anything... :(
    Listen to James Cameron, he calls the T-1000 a cyborg.

    You're going to love Dark Fate then.

    It is going to be the direct sequel to Judgment Day and the other previous sequels are now set in alternative timelines.
    They should bypass judgment day as well. Its best moment (SPOILER ALERT) when Arnie turns out to be a good guy only works the first time you see it. Its defects are a highly punchable child actor, that utterly embarrassing liquid metal thing which was really, really cool back in the day but is probably now available for free to Photoshop into your Instagram videos, the trivializing of automatic weapons (shooting at all those cops without injuring anyone - sandy hook and Christchurch and a hundred other places say hello) and ultimately the fact that I don't think you can get more than the one movie out of the time travel gag - as all the subsequent sequels prove. It gets too complicated and the plot holes just stack up. Terminator should have been a stand alone.
    Sure, detailed analysis of any film, even iconic ones like Judgement Day, often reveals some pretty disturbing themes and assumptions. I rewatched 16 Candles on Netflix the other night and it is very disturbing in its attitudes, particularly the predatory Senior who is the love interest. Many Brett Kavanaugh moments. The background scenes to such films are often more interesting than the foregrounds.

    Cartoonish shoot em up scenes have long been a hollywood staple. It was Reservoir Dogs that changed the narrative imo, with the violence mostly off stage, and the aftermath brutally shown.

    Another one is Gigi, which my parents and I really loved when I was young. It handles the courtesan aspect with quite sympathetic realism for a musical, but Maurice Chevalier part and especially the "Thank heaven for little girls" song look creepy to modern eyes.
    (Actually the fact that I liked watching TV with my parents as a teenager dates me too, doesn't it?)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,497
    timmo said:

    Out canvassing in Surrey heartlands over the weekend..real anger. A lot of expletives on the doorstep. Tories heading for a voters strike. Could be a lot of independants elected in areas.

    That's brave. I wouldn't dream of going out on the doorstep at the moment.

    Kudos.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,384

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    timmo said:

    Out canvassing in Surrey heartlands over the weekend..real anger. A lot of expletives on the doorstep. Tories heading for a voters strike. Could be a lot of independants elected in areas.

    Whats the point in voting Tory, they stand for nothing.
    The problem is that they stand for everything...
    Do they still stand for the National Anthem? Or is that just UKIP?
    I think they still stand

    https://youtu.be/FN7r0Rr1Qyc
    That song has to be the most disturbing ever in any musical.
    Yes. It's frighteningly good, because it doesn't portray the Nazis just as thuggish idiots but as dangerously, menacingly idealistic.
    I prefer the Horst Wesel Song.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Well it’s not just Oxford and cheltenhaham that voted to remain I just wonder what those who believed voting leave to kick the government in the balls was a good idea have achieved ?

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    A couple of weeks ago I was pretty sure Brexit was in the throes of its death rattle.

    Not for a moment did I expect Labour to revive it so it could get over the line.

    Corbyn will be a hero in the midlands/northern Brexit heartlands.

    It would be better in a sense if Jeremy gets into number 10 through those sort of votes rather than those of southern poncy types. Or would it? And in what sense exactly?
    As a R4 programme explained the Remain/Leave cultural divide isn't the Right/Left cultural divide. By and large, it's the socially liberal and well-educated, e.g. Oxford or Cheltenham vs. the socially-conservative and less-educated, e.g. Plymouth or Portsmouth.

    How about the better-off investigating how the other half live and improving the lives of people instead of pontificating on how 'no-one votes to make themselves poorer'? People vote very strangely if they think they have nothing to lose. Once this is understood, Corbyn can stop talking bollocks about 'a good Brexit'.
    The Old Families already know this. It’s the current establishment that have forgotten their duty to serve and protect
    'Old Families'. I'm not going to say what I think to that as I want to carry on being able to post here.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    timmo said:

    Out canvassing in Surrey heartlands over the weekend..real anger. A lot of expletives on the doorstep. Tories heading for a voters strike. Could be a lot of independants elected in areas.

    Whats the point in voting Tory, they stand for nothing.
    The problem is that they stand for everything...
    Do they still stand for the National Anthem? Or is that just UKIP?
    I think they still stand

    https://youtu.be/FN7r0Rr1Qyc
    That song has to be the most disturbing ever in any musical.
    It is a genuinely disturbing movie, but how could a depiction of the rise of Nazism be otherwise.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I’m expecting the Conservatives’ performance in local elections to be very patchy, awful in some areas, not too bad at all in others. The geography favours them this time, I think.

    They are going to struggle to persuade normal stalwarts to go to the polling booth for them. What is their current USP and why should voters reward them for their performance on the national stage?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,384
    GIN1138 said:

    timmo said:

    Out canvassing in Surrey heartlands over the weekend..real anger. A lot of expletives on the doorstep. Tories heading for a voters strike. Could be a lot of independants elected in areas.

    Could we see the biggest Con meltdown since 1995 in this years locals? :D

    No. Labour and the Lib Dems are not fielding enough candidates to achieve such a win, nor are they polling anything like as well as they did in 1995.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,042
    nichomar said:

    Well it’s not just Oxford and cheltenhaham that voted to remain I just wonder what those who believed voting leave to kick the government in the balls was a good idea have achieved ?

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    A couple of weeks ago I was pretty sure Brexit was in the throes of its death rattle.

    Not for a moment did I expect Labour to revive it so it could get over the line.

    Corbyn will be a hero in the midlands/northern Brexit heartlands.

    It would be better in a sense if Jeremy gets into number 10 through those sort of votes rather than those of southern poncy types. Or would it? And in what sense exactly?
    As a R4 programme explained the Remain/Leave cultural divide isn't the Right/Left cultural divide. By and large, it's the socially liberal and well-educated, e.g. Oxford or Cheltenham vs. the socially-conservative and less-educated, e.g. Plymouth or Portsmouth.

    How about the better-off investigating how the other half live and improving the lives of people instead of pontificating on how 'no-one votes to make themselves poorer'? People vote very strangely if they think they have nothing to lose. Once this is understood, Corbyn can stop talking bollocks about 'a good Brexit'.
    The Old Families already know this. It’s the current establishment that have forgotten their duty to serve and protect
    'Old Families'. I'm not going to say what I think to that as I want to carry on being able to post here.
    Have you seen the state of the Tory Party?

    Labour Leave were the only winners in the referendum.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,703
    edited April 2019
    eek said:

    kjohnw said:

    So is the PB consensus that Brexit is not happening and there is no chance of No Deal now .

    Accidental No Deal is still a possibility in my view but May is clearly set against it (else we'd have gone by now).

    Her request for a further extension and recognition that we might need to hold EU elections; her decision to talk to Labour; the HoC majority against No Deal; Merkel's clear preference to avoid No Deal; the likely passage of the Cooper Bill; the lack of a seismic backlash in the Newport West by-election; the ineptitude of the ERG... all these things point away from No Deal.

    I'd say the chances currently are:

    1. No Deal 5%
    2. May's Deal 10%
    3. May's Deal + CU 25%
    4. May's Deal + CU + PV 50%...
    (leading to:
    4i. Brexit 25%
    4ii. Revoke 25%)
    5. Straight Revoke (possibly after several long extensions) 10%

    So adding 3. + 4i. Brexit with May's Deal + CU = 50% overall
    And adding 4ii. + 5. Revoke and therefore Remain* = 35% overall
    Brexit with May Deal (no CU) 10% and
    No Deal 5%

    (*If we Revoke, that will be it - there's no Revoke now and re-invoke A50 next year imo.)

    4ii isn't possible - we can't revoke once we've left and once we sign May's Deal we've left.
    4. means "May's Deal + CU subject to a confirmatory referendum"; we would only leave (4i.) if the Deal was approved in the referendum.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    timmo said:

    Out canvassing in Surrey heartlands over the weekend..real anger. A lot of expletives on the doorstep. Tories heading for a voters strike. Could be a lot of independants elected in areas.

    Whats the point in voting Tory, they stand for nothing.
    The problem is that they stand for everything...
    Do they still stand for the National Anthem? Or is that just UKIP?
    I think they still stand

    https://youtu.be/FN7r0Rr1Qyc
    That song has to be the most disturbing ever in any musical.
    It is a genuinely disturbing movie, but how could a depiction of the rise of Nazism be otherwise.
    There’s a type of film that works to see how far you sympathise with someone who you really shouldn’t sympathise with. Falling Down, Starship Troopers and the Butcher Boy all fall in that category.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    A couple of weeks ago I was pretty sure Brexit was in the throes of its death rattle.

    Not for a moment did I expect Labour to revive it so it could get over the line.

    Corbyn will be a hero in the midlands/northern Brexit heartlands.

    It would be better in a sense if Jeremy gets into number 10 through those sort of votes rather than those of southern poncy types. Or would it? And in what sense exactly?
    As a R4 programme explained the Remain/Leave cultural divide isn't the Right/Left cultural divide. By and large, it's the socially liberal and well-educated, e.g. Oxford or Cheltenham vs. the socially-conservative and less-educated, e.g. Plymouth or Portsmouth.

    How about the better-off investigating how the other half live and improving the lives of people instead of pontificating on how 'no-one votes to make themselves poorer'? People vote very strangely if they think they have nothing to lose. Once this is understood, Corbyn can stop talking bollocks about 'a good Brexit'.
    The Old Families already know this. It’s the current establishment that have forgotten their duty to serve and protect
    'Old Families'. I'm not going to say what I think to that as I want to carry on being able to post here.
    I think my family is as old as anyone elses, indeed everyone elses.

    The difference between the aristocracy and the rest of us is that their voracious robber ancestors have been gilded by history.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    viewcode said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Customs union would be pathetic and ridiculous.

    It is all thanks to the ERG and DUP.

    Had they voted for the deal on the 29th she wouldn’t need to sign up to I can’t believe it’s not a customs union.

    Steve Baker, Private Francois et al deserves gongs for getting us here.
    It's not a bloody customs union, it's a dove-tailed tariff alignment for goodness sake!
    We're not a football team. We're ten people kicking a ball about on a pitch, with an eleventh in goal... :)
    With Mourinho as manager perhaps?
    It's worse than that.

    https://twitter.com/scotsunsport/status/1113924558464147456
    Oh lord. Can we not just say we're really, really sorry to Gordon and would he please come back?
    He's never getting a job ever again.

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/apr/07/gordon-strachan-will-not-appear-on-sky-again-after-adam-johnson-remarks
    It's a pretty stupid comment badly phrased but really? People are too precious.
    I think the point he is trying to make is that we have a criminal justice system and once done has served their time they are entitled to the same protection as ordinary law-abiding citizens
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,703
    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    timmo said:

    Out canvassing in Surrey heartlands over the weekend..real anger. A lot of expletives on the doorstep. Tories heading for a voters strike. Could be a lot of independants elected in areas.

    Whats the point in voting Tory, they stand for nothing.
    The problem is that they stand for everything...
    Do they still stand for the National Anthem? Or is that just UKIP?
    I think they still stand

    https://youtu.be/FN7r0Rr1Qyc
    That song has to be the most disturbing ever in any musical.
    Yes. It's frighteningly good, because it doesn't portray the Nazis just as thuggish idiots but as dangerously, menacingly idealistic.
    I prefer the Horst Wesel Song.

    That figures :wink:
  • nielhnielh Posts: 1,307

    I’ve a soft spot for Oborne (and Hitchens, but not Heffer or Daley).

    The piece is a very balanced, thoughtful contribution.

    I thought so too. But it won't make any difference. This is the revolution eating its own children, we are seeing it again and again. It won't stop until it has consumed every single one of them.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,384

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    timmo said:

    Out canvassing in Surrey heartlands over the weekend..real anger. A lot of expletives on the doorstep. Tories heading for a voters strike. Could be a lot of independants elected in areas.

    Whats the point in voting Tory, they stand for nothing.
    The problem is that they stand for everything...
    Do they still stand for the National Anthem? Or is that just UKIP?
    I think they still stand

    https://youtu.be/FN7r0Rr1Qyc
    That song has to be the most disturbing ever in any musical.
    It is a genuinely disturbing movie, but how could a depiction of the rise of Nazism be otherwise.
    There’s a type of film that works to see how far you sympathise with someone who you really shouldn’t sympathise with. Falling Down, Starship Troopers and the Butcher Boy all fall in that category.
    Godfather 1 and 2, in fact plenty of gangster films.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,703
    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    A couple of weeks ago I was pretty sure Brexit was in the throes of its death rattle.

    Not for a moment did I expect Labour to revive it so it could get over the line.

    Corbyn will be a hero in the midlands/northern Brexit heartlands.

    It would be better in a sense if Jeremy gets into number 10 through those sort of votes rather than those of southern poncy types. Or would it? And in what sense exactly?
    As a R4 programme explained the Remain/Leave cultural divide isn't the Right/Left cultural divide. By and large, it's the socially liberal and well-educated, e.g. Oxford or Cheltenham vs. the socially-conservative and less-educated, e.g. Plymouth or Portsmouth.

    How about the better-off investigating how the other half live and improving the lives of people instead of pontificating on how 'no-one votes to make themselves poorer'? People vote very strangely if they think they have nothing to lose. Once this is understood, Corbyn can stop talking bollocks about 'a good Brexit'.
    The Old Families already know this. It’s the current establishment that have forgotten their duty to serve and protect
    'Old Families'. I'm not going to say what I think to that as I want to carry on being able to post here.
    I think my family is as old as anyone elses, indeed everyone elses.

    The difference between the aristocracy and the rest of us is that their voracious robber ancestors have been gilded by history.
    Indeed. Charles' 'Old Families' comment just reeks of pompous twatism.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,384

    Foxy said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    viewcode said:

    Scott_P said:
    Peter Oborne is talking bollocks, he writes

    As the end has come closer she’s turned into a shapeshifter, like the android assassin in the final stages of the second ‘Terminator’ film, moving desperately from one Brexit model to another.

    ANDROID? He was a cyborg.


    [1] Godsdammit, there isn't a real difference between an alternate reality, an alternate history, and a mirror universe. Not that I'm bitter and twisted or anything... :(
    Listen to James Cameron, he calls the T-1000 a cyborg.

    You're going to love Dark Fate then.

    It is going to be the direct sequel to Judgment Day and the other previous sequels are now set in alternative timelines.
    They should bypass judgment day as well. Its best moment (SPOILER ALERT) when Arnie turns out to be a g) and ultimately the fact that I don't think you can get more than the one movie out of the time travel gag - as all the subsequent sequels prove. It gets too complicated and the plot holes just stack up. Terminator should have been a stand alone.
    Sure, detailed analysis of any film, even iconic ones like Judgement Day, often reveals some pretty disturbing themes and assumptions. I rewatched 16 Candles on Netflix the other night and it is very disturbing in its attitudes, particularly the predatory Senior who is the love interest. Many Brett Kavanaugh moments. The background scenes to such films are often more interesting than the foregrounds.

    Cartoonish shoot em up scenes have long been a hollywood staple. It was Reservoir Dogs that changed the narrative imo, with the violence mostly off stage, and the aftermath brutally shown.

    Another one is Gigi, which my parents and I really loved when I was young. It handles the courtesan aspect with quite sympathetic realism for a musical, but Maurice Chevalier part and especially the "Thank heaven for little girls" song look creepy to modern eyes.
    (Actually the fact that I liked watching TV with my parents as a teenager dates me too, doesn't it?)
    In reality, quite a lot of the behaviour depicted in romantic comedies would see you serving serious time in prison.

    https://www.cracked.com/article_18756_6-romantic-movie-gestures-that-can-get-you-prison-time.html
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:

    Well it’s not just Oxford and cheltenhaham that voted to remain I just wonder what those who believed voting leave to kick the government in the balls was a good idea have achieved ?

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    A couple of weeks ago I was pretty sure Brexit was in the throes of its death rattle.

    Not for a moment did I expect Labour to revive it so it could get over the line.

    Corbyn will be a hero in the midlands/northern Brexit heartlands.

    It would be better in a sense if Jeremy gets into number 10 through those sort of votes rather than those of southern poncy types. Or would it? And in what sense exactly?
    As a R4 programme explained the Remain/Leave cultural divide isn't the Right/Left cultural divide. By and large, it's the socially liberal and well-educated, e.g. Oxford or Cheltenham vs. the socially-conservative and less-educated, e.g. Plymouth or Portsmouth.

    How about the better-off investigating how the other half live and improving the lives of people instead of pontificating on how 'no-one votes to make themselves poorer'? People vote very strangely if they think they have nothing to lose. Once this is understood, Corbyn can stop talking bollocks about 'a good Brexit'.
    The Old Families already know this. It’s the current establishment that have forgotten their duty to serve and protect
    'Old Families'. I'm not going to say what I think to that as I want to carry on being able to post here.
    Have you seen the state of the Tory Party?

    Labour Leave were the only winners in the referendum.
    Sadly yes they seem to be insulated from deselection unlike principled Tory’s how has Kate hoey survived?
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    Charles said:

    Mr. Dawning, voting to leave the EU being interpreted as asking the EU to dictate our trade policy, contrary to both sides in the campaign, is ridiculous.

    It also gives them power to harm our economy as they'll be determining our trade policy without any influence whatsoever.

    There comes a point where compromise means compromising on the result the voters decided, and the customs union is that point. At least those advocating we remain are more honest and less wretched than those who want us to leave in name only.

    I've said all along, include months before the vote, that the customs union was the only 'red line' I had. It's a demented approach.

    Give it a few years and we can pull out of a customs union
    You know very well no leader is going to do that.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    timmo said:

    Out canvassing in Surrey heartlands over the weekend..real anger. A lot of expletives on the doorstep. Tories heading for a voters strike. Could be a lot of independants elected in areas.

    Whats the point in voting Tory, they stand for nothing.
    The problem is that they stand for everything...
    Do they still stand for the National Anthem? Or is that just UKIP?
    I think they still stand

    https://youtu.be/FN7r0Rr1Qyc
    That song has to be the most disturbing ever in any musical.
    It is a genuinely disturbing movie, but how could a depiction of the rise of Nazism be otherwise.
    There’s a type of film that works to see how far you sympathise with someone who you really shouldn’t sympathise with. Falling Down, Starship Troopers and the Butcher Boy all fall in that category.
    Die Hard.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217

    Charles said:

    Mr. Dawning, voting to leave the EU being interpreted as asking the EU to dictate our trade policy, contrary to both sides in the campaign, is ridiculous.

    It also gives them power to harm our economy as they'll be determining our trade policy without any influence whatsoever.

    There comes a point where compromise means compromising on the result the voters decided, and the customs union is that point. At least those advocating we remain are more honest and less wretched than those who want us to leave in name only.

    I've said all along, include months before the vote, that the customs union was the only 'red line' I had. It's a demented approach.

    Give it a few years and we can pull out of a customs union
    You know very well no leader is going to do that.
    Does Boris pull out ?
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    timmo said:

    Out canvassing in Surrey heartlands over the weekend..real anger. A lot of expletives on the doorstep. Tories heading for a voters strike. Could be a lot of independants elected in areas.

    Whats the point in voting Tory, they stand for nothing.
    The problem is that they stand for everything...
    Do they still stand for the National Anthem? Or is that just UKIP?
    I think they still stand

    https://youtu.be/FN7r0Rr1Qyc
    That song has to be the most disturbing ever in any musical.
    It is a genuinely disturbing movie, but how could a depiction of the rise of Nazism be otherwise.
    There’s a type of film that works to see how far you sympathise with someone who you really shouldn’t sympathise with. Falling Down, Starship Troopers and the Butcher Boy all fall in that category.
    Have you read Starship Troopers? In black and white it can all seen very logical, and your moral compass can start to wander all over the place. Heinlein was a strange man - I found Job: a comedy of justice to be very disturbing.
  • nielhnielh Posts: 1,307

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    A couple of weeks ago I was pretty sure Brexit was in the throes of its death rattle.

    Not for a moment did I expect Labour to revive it so it could get over the line.

    Corbyn will be a hero in the midlands/northern Brexit heartlands.

    It would be better in a sense if Jeremy gets into number 10 through those sort of votes rather than those of southern poncy types. Or would it? And in what sense exactly?
    As a R4 programme explained the Remain/Leave cultural divide isn't the Right/Left cultural divide. By and large, it's the socially liberal and well-educated, e.g. Oxford or Cheltenham vs. the socially-conservative and less-educated, e.g. Plymouth or Portsmouth.

    How about the better-off investigating how the other half live and improving the lives of people instead of pontificating on how 'no-one votes to make themselves poorer'? People vote very strangely if they think they have nothing to lose. Once this is understood, Corbyn can stop talking bollocks about 'a good Brexit'.
    The Old Families already know this. It’s the current establishment that have forgotten their duty to serve and protect
    'Old Families'. I'm not going to say what I think to that as I want to carry on being able to post here.
    I think my family is as old as anyone elses, indeed everyone elses.

    The difference between the aristocracy and the rest of us is that their voracious robber ancestors have been gilded by history.
    Indeed. Charles' 'Old Families' comment just reeks of pompous twatism.
    I don't think it is a stupid comment. It is a fact that there is old and new money, and associated values. I just wonder if there even is an establishment anymore, in the way we ordinarily understand it.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Mr. Dawning, voting to leave the EU being interpreted as asking the EU to dictate our trade policy, contrary to both sides in the campaign, is ridiculous.

    It also gives them power to harm our economy as they'll be determining our trade policy without any influence whatsoever.

    There comes a point where compromise means compromising on the result the voters decided, and the customs union is that point. At least those advocating we remain are more honest and less wretched than those who want us to leave in name only.

    I've said all along, include months before the vote, that the customs union was the only 'red line' I had. It's a demented approach.

    Give it a few years and we can pull out of a customs union
    You know very well no leader is going to do that.
    Does Boris pull out ?
    Not on past evidence, no.

    Talk of pulling out of the customs union just shows why the EU wants to nail down the terms of the withdrawal agreement with no wriggle room. The casual bad faith of Leavers gives them, reasonably enough, the heebeejeebees.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,628
    edited April 2019

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    timmo said:

    Out canvassing in Surrey heartlands over the weekend..real anger. A lot of expletives on the doorstep. Tories heading for a voters strike. Could be a lot of independants elected in areas.

    Whats the point in voting Tory, they stand for nothing.
    The problem is that they stand for everything...
    Do they still stand for the National Anthem? Or is that just UKIP?
    I think they still stand

    https://youtu.be/FN7r0Rr1Qyc
    That song has to be the most disturbing ever in any musical.
    It is a genuinely disturbing movie, but how could a depiction of the rise of Nazism be otherwise.
    There’s a type of film that works to see how far you sympathise with someone who you really shouldn’t sympathise with. Falling Down, Starship Troopers and the Butcher Boy all fall in that category.
    A film for our times:

    ' Christie Malry (Nick Moran) is a put-upon accountant who works for a London sweet factory. One day, fed up with the petty humiliations he is forced to endure to earn a wage, he decides to apply the double-entry system of book-keeping to his own life, balancing every aggravation received with a recompense delivered. Soon, however, things get out of control, and Christie's acts of revenge begin taking on greater and greater proportions, to the point where he plans to blow up the Houses of Parliament. '

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Christie-Malrys-Own-Double-Entry/dp/B000085RJX

    :wink:
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,384

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    timmo said:

    Out canvassing in Surrey heartlands over the weekend..real anger. A lot of expletives on the doorstep. Tories heading for a voters strike. Could be a lot of independants elected in areas.

    Whats the point in voting Tory, they stand for nothing.
    The problem is that they stand for everything...
    Do they still stand for the National Anthem? Or is that just UKIP?
    I think they still stand

    https://youtu.be/FN7r0Rr1Qyc
    That song has to be the most disturbing ever in any musical.
    It is a genuinely disturbing movie, but how could a depiction of the rise of Nazism be otherwise.
    There’s a type of film that works to see how far you sympathise with someone who you really shouldn’t sympathise with. Falling Down, Starship Troopers and the Butcher Boy all fall in that category.
    Have you read Starship Troopers? In black and white it can all seen very logical, and your moral compass can start to wander all over the place. Heinlein was a strange man - I found Job: a comedy of justice to be very disturbing.
    I haven't read them in a while. Is the latter the one where the protagonist has a romantic relationship with her father?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,006
    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    timmo said:

    Out canvassing in Surrey heartlands over the weekend..real anger. A lot of expletives on the doorstep. Tories heading for a voters strike. Could be a lot of independants elected in areas.

    Whats the point in voting Tory, they stand for nothing.
    The problem is that they stand for everything...
    Do they still stand for the National Anthem? Or is that just UKIP?
    I think they still stand

    https://youtu.be/FN7r0Rr1Qyc
    That song has to be the most disturbing ever in any musical.
    Yes. It's frighteningly good, because it doesn't portray the Nazis just as thuggish idiots but as dangerously, menacingly idealistic.
    I prefer the Horst Wesel Song.
    Should we look forward to a Tommy-Robinson-Lied?
    (also a pleasing pun)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Mr. Dawning, voting to leave the EU being interpreted as asking the EU to dictate our trade policy, contrary to both sides in the campaign, is ridiculous.

    It also gives them power to harm our economy as they'll be determining our trade policy without any influence whatsoever.

    There comes a point where compromise means compromising on the result the voters decided, and the customs union is that point. At least those advocating we remain are more honest and less wretched than those who want us to leave in name only.

    I've said all along, include months before the vote, that the customs union was the only 'red line' I had. It's a demented approach.

    Give it a few years and we can pull out of a customs union
    You know very well no leader is going to do that.
    Does Boris pull out ?
    No, but he has allegedly arranged abortions in the past due to a failure to withdraw...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    Charles said:

    Mr. Dawning, voting to leave the EU being interpreted as asking the EU to dictate our trade policy, contrary to both sides in the campaign, is ridiculous.

    It also gives them power to harm our economy as they'll be determining our trade policy without any influence whatsoever.

    There comes a point where compromise means compromising on the result the voters decided, and the customs union is that point. At least those advocating we remain are more honest and less wretched than those who want us to leave in name only.

    I've said all along, include months before the vote, that the customs union was the only 'red line' I had. It's a demented approach.

    Give it a few years and we can pull out of a customs union
    You know very well no leader is going to do that.
    Depends what the cost-benefit analysis shows.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,628

    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Mr. Dawning, voting to leave the EU being interpreted as asking the EU to dictate our trade policy, contrary to both sides in the campaign, is ridiculous.

    It also gives them power to harm our economy as they'll be determining our trade policy without any influence whatsoever.

    There comes a point where compromise means compromising on the result the voters decided, and the customs union is that point. At least those advocating we remain are more honest and less wretched than those who want us to leave in name only.

    I've said all along, include months before the vote, that the customs union was the only 'red line' I had. It's a demented approach.

    Give it a few years and we can pull out of a customs union
    You know very well no leader is going to do that.
    Does Boris pull out ?
    Not on past evidence, no.

    Talk of pulling out of the customs union just shows why the EU wants to nail down the terms of the withdrawal agreement with no wriggle room. The casual bad faith of Leavers gives them, reasonably enough, the heebeejeebees.
    Its the stupidity which is more dangerous.

    To conduct an independent trade policy would take years of proper preparation.

    So the big chance to do so has already been pissed away by Liam Fox - with the complete tolerance of those who posture about an independent trade policy.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    Could someone explain to me how May is planning to leave the EU without another MV?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741

    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Mr. Dawning, voting to leave the EU being interpreted as asking the EU to dictate our trade policy, contrary to both sides in the campaign, is ridiculous.

    It also gives them power to harm our economy as they'll be determining our trade policy without any influence whatsoever.

    There comes a point where compromise means compromising on the result the voters decided, and the customs union is that point. At least those advocating we remain are more honest and less wretched than those who want us to leave in name only.

    I've said all along, include months before the vote, that the customs union was the only 'red line' I had. It's a demented approach.

    Give it a few years and we can pull out of a customs union
    You know very well no leader is going to do that.
    Does Boris pull out ?
    Not on past evidence, no.

    Talk of pulling out of the customs union just shows why the EU wants to nail down the terms of the withdrawal agreement with no wriggle room. The casual bad faith of Leavers gives them, reasonably enough, the heebeejeebees.
    Its the stupidity which is more dangerous.

    To conduct an independent trade policy would take years of proper preparation.

    So the big chance to do so has already been pissed away by Liam Fox - with the complete tolerance of those who posture about an independent trade policy.
    That's Leavers for you. Piss up and Brewery spring to mind!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,687
    edited April 2019
    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Mr. Dawning, voting to leave the EU being interpreted as asking the EU to dictate our trade policy, contrary to both sides in the campaign, is ridiculous.

    It also gives them power to harm our economy as they'll be determining our trade policy without any influence whatsoever.

    There comes a point where compromise means compromising on the result the voters decided, and the customs union is that point. At least those advocating we remain are more honest and less wretched than those who want us to leave in name only.

    I've said all along, include months before the vote, that the customs union was the only 'red line' I had. It's a demented approach.

    Give it a few years and we can pull out of a customs union
    You know very well no leader is going to do that.
    Does Boris pull out ?
    He did in 2016.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/748471159621095424
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,703
    Mortimer said:

    Could someone explain to me how May is planning to leave the EU without another MV?

    No I don't think anyone can. :smile:
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    nielh said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    A couple of weeks ago I was pretty sure Brexit was in the throes of its death rattle.

    Not for a moment did I expect Labour to revive it so it could get over the line.

    Corbyn will be a hero in the midlands/northern Brexit heartlands.

    It would be better in a sense if Jeremy gets into number 10 through those sort of votes rather than those of southern poncy types. Or would it? And in what sense exactly?
    As a R4 programme explained the Remain/Leave cultural divide isn't the Right/Left cultural divide. By and large, it's the socially liberal and well-educated, e.g. Oxford or Cheltenham vs. the socially-conservative and less-educated, e.g. Plymouth or Portsmouth.

    How about the better-off investigating how the other half live and improving the lives of people instead of pontificating on how 'no-one votes to make themselves poorer'? People vote very strangely if they think they have nothing to lose. Once this is understood, Corbyn can stop talking bollocks about 'a good Brexit'.
    The Old Families already know this. It’s the current establishment that have forgotten their duty to serve and protect
    'Old Families'. I'm not going to say what I think to that as I want to carry on being able to post here.
    I think my family is as old as anyone elses, indeed everyone elses.

    The difference between the aristocracy and the rest of us is that their voracious robber ancestors have been gilded by history.
    Indeed. Charles' 'Old Families' comment just reeks of pompous twatism.
    I don't think it is a stupid comment. It is a fact that there is old and new money, and associated values. I just wonder if there even is an establishment anymore, in the way we ordinarily understand it.
    It’s not so much money but a way of distinguishing between the political and media class that dominate the country (the establishment) and the squirearchy/local stakeholders who used to be the establishment but have largely withdraw from public life
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Mr. Dawning, voting to leave the EU being interpreted as asking the EU to dictate our trade policy, contrary to both sides in the campaign, is ridiculous.

    It also gives them power to harm our economy as they'll be determining our trade policy without any influence whatsoever.

    There comes a point where compromise means compromising on the result the voters decided, and the customs union is that point. At least those advocating we remain are more honest and less wretched than those who want us to leave in name only.

    I've said all along, include months before the vote, that the customs union was the only 'red line' I had. It's a demented approach.

    Give it a few years and we can pull out of a customs union
    You know very well no leader is going to do that.
    Does Boris pull out ?
    He did in 2016.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/748471159621095424
    The first time he wasn't a coming man.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,703

    Charles said:

    Mr. Dawning, voting to leave the EU being interpreted as asking the EU to dictate our trade policy, contrary to both sides in the campaign, is ridiculous.

    It also gives them power to harm our economy as they'll be determining our trade policy without any influence whatsoever.

    There comes a point where compromise means compromising on the result the voters decided, and the customs union is that point. At least those advocating we remain are more honest and less wretched than those who want us to leave in name only.

    I've said all along, include months before the vote, that the customs union was the only 'red line' I had. It's a demented approach.

    Give it a few years and we can pull out of a customs union
    You know very well no leader is going to do that.
    Depends what the cost-benefit analysis shows.
    What does the cost-benefit analysis for Brexit show?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,628
    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Mr. Dawning, voting to leave the EU being interpreted as asking the EU to dictate our trade policy, contrary to both sides in the campaign, is ridiculous.

    It also gives them power to harm our economy as they'll be determining our trade policy without any influence whatsoever.

    There comes a point where compromise means compromising on the result the voters decided, and the customs union is that point. At least those advocating we remain are more honest and less wretched than those who want us to leave in name only.

    I've said all along, include months before the vote, that the customs union was the only 'red line' I had. It's a demented approach.

    Give it a few years and we can pull out of a customs union
    You know very well no leader is going to do that.
    Does Boris pull out ?
    Not on past evidence, no.

    Talk of pulling out of the customs union just shows why the EU wants to nail down the terms of the withdrawal agreement with no wriggle room. The casual bad faith of Leavers gives them, reasonably enough, the heebeejeebees.
    Its the stupidity which is more dangerous.

    To conduct an independent trade policy would take years of proper preparation.

    So the big chance to do so has already been pissed away by Liam Fox - with the complete tolerance of those who posture about an independent trade policy.
    That's Leavers for you. Piss up and Brewery spring to mind!
    I've always had doubts about that phrase.

    Barrels of beer aren't the most user friendly of things and has anyone ever gone to a brewery for a piss up in any case ?

    So shouldn't it be 'piss up in a pub' ?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,006
    Charles said:

    nielh said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    A couple of weeks ago I was pretty sure Brexit was in the throes of its death rattle.

    Not for a moment did I expect Labour to revive it so it could get over the line.

    Corbyn will be a hero in the midlands/northern Brexit heartlands.

    It would be better in a sense if Jeremy gets into number 10 through those sort of votes rather than those of southern poncy types. Or would it? And in what sense exactly?
    As a R4 programme explained the Remain/Leave cultural divide isn't the Right/Left cultural divide. By and large, it's the socially liberal and well-educated, e.g. Oxford or Cheltenham vs. the socially-conservative and less-educated, e.g. Plymouth or Portsmouth.

    How about the better-off investigating how the other half live and improving the lives of people instead of pontificating on how 'no-one votes to make themselves poorer'? People vote very strangely if they think they have nothing to lose. Once this is understood, Corbyn can stop talking bollocks about 'a good Brexit'.
    The Old Families already know this. It’s the current establishment that have forgotten their duty to serve and protect
    'Old Families'. I'm not going to say what I think to that as I want to carry on being able to post here.
    I think my family is as old as anyone elses, indeed everyone elses.

    The difference between the aristocracy and the rest of us is that their voracious robber ancestors have been gilded by history.
    Indeed. Charles' 'Old Families' comment just reeks of pompous twatism.
    I don't think it is a stupid comment. It is a fact that there is old and new money, and associated values. I just wonder if there even is an establishment anymore, in the way we ordinarily understand it.
    It’s not so much money but a way of distinguishing between the political and media class that dominate the country (the establishment) and the squirearchy/local stakeholders who used to be the establishment but have largely withdraw from public life
    The implication that that withdrawal is a matter of haughty choice is superb!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited April 2019

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Mr. Dawning, voting to leave the EU being interpreted as asking the EU to dictate our trade policy, contrary to both sides in the campaign, is ridiculous.

    It also gives them power to harm our economy as they'll be determining our trade policy without any influence whatsoever.

    There comes a point where compromise means compromising on the result the voters decided, and the customs union is that point. At least those advocating we remain are more honest and less wretched than those who want us to leave in name only.

    I've said all along, include months before the vote, that the customs union was the only 'red line' I had. It's a demented approach.

    Give it a few years and we can pull out of a customs union
    You know very well no leader is going to do that.
    Does Boris pull out ?
    Not on past evidence, no.

    Talk of pulling out of the customs union just shows why the EU wants to nail down the terms of the withdrawal agreement with no wriggle room. The casual bad faith of Leavers gives them, reasonably enough, the heebeejeebees.
    Its the stupidity which is more dangerous.

    To conduct an independent trade policy would take years of proper preparation.

    So the big chance to do so has already been pissed away by Liam Fox - with the complete tolerance of those who posture about an independent trade policy.
    That's Leavers for you. Piss up and Brewery spring to mind!
    I've always had doubts about that phrase.

    Barrels of beer aren't the most user friendly of things and has anyone ever gone to a brewery for a piss up in any case ?

    So shouldn't it be 'piss up in a pub' ?
    There was a famous case of an Irishwoman who was told she couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery. Narked, she said she would prove them wrong and invited everyone to Guinness for a birthday party - only to tell them the wrong date so they turned up 24 hours early.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    Charles said:

    Mr. Dawning, voting to leave the EU being interpreted as asking the EU to dictate our trade policy, contrary to both sides in the campaign, is ridiculous.

    It also gives them power to harm our economy as they'll be determining our trade policy without any influence whatsoever.

    There comes a point where compromise means compromising on the result the voters decided, and the customs union is that point. At least those advocating we remain are more honest and less wretched than those who want us to leave in name only.

    I've said all along, include months before the vote, that the customs union was the only 'red line' I had. It's a demented approach.

    Give it a few years and we can pull out of a customs union
    You know very well no leader is going to do that.
    Depends what the cost-benefit analysis shows.
    What does the cost-benefit analysis for Brexit show?
    To ensure democracy isn't debased?

    Priceless....
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    To ensure democracy isn't debased?

    By an illegal campaign...?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,628
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Mr. Dawning, voting to leave the EU being interpreted as asking the EU to dictate our trade policy, contrary to both sides in the campaign, is ridiculous.

    It also gives them power to harm our economy as they'll be determining our trade policy without any influence whatsoever.

    There comes a point where compromise means compromising on the result the voters decided, and the customs union is that point. At least those advocating we remain are more honest and less wretched than those who want us to leave in name only.

    I've said all along, include months before the vote, that the customs union was the only 'red line' I had. It's a demented approach.

    Give it a few years and we can pull out of a customs union
    You know very well no leader is going to do that.
    Does Boris pull out ?
    Not on past evidence, no.

    Talk of pulling out of the customs union just shows why the EU wants to nail down the terms of the withdrawal agreement with no wriggle room. The casual bad faith of Leavers gives them, reasonably enough, the heebeejeebees.
    Its the stupidity which is more dangerous.

    To conduct an independent trade policy would take years of proper preparation.

    So the big chance to do so has already been pissed away by Liam Fox - with the complete tolerance of those who posture about an independent trade policy.
    That's Leavers for you. Piss up and Brewery spring to mind!
    I've always had doubts about that phrase.

    Barrels of beer aren't the most user friendly of things and has anyone ever gone to a brewery for a piss up in any case ?

    So shouldn't it be 'piss up in a pub' ?
    There was a famous case of an Irishwoman who was told she couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery. Narked, she said she would prove them wrong and invited everyone to Guinness for a birthday party - only to tell them the wrong date so they turned up 24 hours early.
    It sounds like a sitcom story.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Charles said:

    Mr. Dawning, voting to leave the EU being interpreted as asking the EU to dictate our trade policy, contrary to both sides in the campaign, is ridiculous.

    It also gives them power to harm our economy as they'll be determining our trade policy without any influence whatsoever.

    There comes a point where compromise means compromising on the result the voters decided, and the customs union is that point. At least those advocating we remain are more honest and less wretched than those who want us to leave in name only.

    I've said all along, include months before the vote, that the customs union was the only 'red line' I had. It's a demented approach.

    Give it a few years and we can pull out of a customs union
    You know very well no leader is going to do that.
    Depends what the cost-benefit analysis shows.
    What does the cost-benefit analysis for Brexit show?
    To ensure democracy isn't debased?

    Priceless....
    When your only remaining argument is a process argument you have lost.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,628

    Charles said:

    Mr. Dawning, voting to leave the EU being interpreted as asking the EU to dictate our trade policy, contrary to both sides in the campaign, is ridiculous.

    It also gives them power to harm our economy as they'll be determining our trade policy without any influence whatsoever.

    There comes a point where compromise means compromising on the result the voters decided, and the customs union is that point. At least those advocating we remain are more honest and less wretched than those who want us to leave in name only.

    I've said all along, include months before the vote, that the customs union was the only 'red line' I had. It's a demented approach.

    Give it a few years and we can pull out of a customs union
    You know very well no leader is going to do that.
    Depends what the cost-benefit analysis shows.
    What does the cost-benefit analysis for Brexit show?
    Unemployment down, borrowing down, exports up, stock market up.

    :wink:
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,006

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Mr. Dawning, voting to leave the EU being interpreted as asking the EU to dictate our trade policy, contrary to both sides in the campaign, is ridiculous.

    It also gives them power to harm our economy as they'll be determining our trade policy without any influence whatsoever.

    There comes a point where compromise means compromising on the result the voters decided, and the customs union is that point. At least those advocating we remain are more honest and less wretched than those who want us to leave in name only.

    I've said all along, include months before the vote, that the customs union was the only 'red line' I had. It's a demented approach.

    Give it a few years and we can pull out of a customs union
    You know very well no leader is going to do that.
    Does Boris pull out ?
    Not on past evidence, no.

    Talk of pulling out of the customs union just shows why the EU wants to nail down the terms of the withdrawal agreement with no wriggle room. The casual bad faith of Leavers gives them, reasonably enough, the heebeejeebees.
    Its the stupidity which is more dangerous.

    To conduct an independent trade policy would take years of proper preparation.

    So the big chance to do so has already been pissed away by Liam Fox - with the complete tolerance of those who posture about an independent trade policy.
    That's Leavers for you. Piss up and Brewery spring to mind!
    I've always had doubts about that phrase.

    Barrels of beer aren't the most user friendly of things and has anyone ever gone to a brewery for a piss up in any case ?

    So shouldn't it be 'piss up in a pub' ?
    There was a famous case of an Irishwoman who was told she couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery. Narked, she said she would prove them wrong and invited everyone to Guinness for a birthday party - only to tell them the wrong date so they turned up 24 hours early.
    It sounds like a sitcom story.
    Even worse, it sounds like a Mrs Brown's Boys story.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    This is interesting in the current climate...

    https://twitter.com/CarolineGruyter/status/1114881236395278336
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "A £317m project designed to tackle bottlenecks has actually made traffic jams worse on dozens of major roads, a government-owned company has admitted.

    Highways England revealed the pinch point programme often resulted in benefits for rush hour journeys after one year but they were outweighed by delays at other times of day.

    Longer journey times during off-peak periods cost £5.6m in the first year, compared with shorter journeys at peak periods which had a benefit worth £5.1m."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/traffic-jam-highways-england-delay-rush-hour-rac-a8858576.html
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Perfect justice .

    A rhino poacher was apparently killed by an elephant and then eaten by a pride of lions . Natures perfect response.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Mr. Dawning, voting to leave the EU being interpreted as asking the EU to dictate our trade policy, contrary to both sides in the campaign, is ridiculous.

    It also gives them power to harm our economy as they'll be determining our trade policy without any influence whatsoever.

    There comes a point where compromise means compromising on the result the voters decided, and the customs union is that point. At least those advocating we remain are more honest and less wretched than those who want us to leave in name only.

    I've said all along, include months before the vote, that the customs union was the only 'red line' I had. It's a demented approach.

    Give it a few years and we can pull out of a customs union
    You know very well no leader is going to do that.
    Does Boris pull out ?
    Not on past evidence, no.

    Talk of pulling out of the customs union just shows why the EU wants to nail down the terms of the withdrawal agreement with no wriggle room. The casual bad faith of Leavers gives them, reasonably enough, the heebeejeebees.
    Its the stupidity which is more dangerous.

    To conduct an independent trade policy would take years of proper preparation.

    So the big chance to do so has already been pissed away by Liam Fox - with the complete tolerance of those who posture about an independent trade policy.
    That's Leavers for you. Piss up and Brewery spring to mind!
    I've always had doubts about that phrase.

    Barrels of beer aren't the most user friendly of things and has anyone ever gone to a brewery for a piss up in any case ?

    So shouldn't it be 'piss up in a pub' ?
    There was a famous case of an Irishwoman who was told she couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery. Narked, she said she would prove them wrong and invited everyone to Guinness for a birthday party - only to tell them the wrong date so they turned up 24 hours early.
    It sounds like a sitcom story.
    She was a journalist.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,384

    I’m expecting the Conservatives’ performance in local elections to be very patchy, awful in some areas, not too bad at all in others. The geography favours them this time, I think.

    They are going to struggle to persuade normal stalwarts to go to the polling booth for them. What is their current USP and why should voters reward them for their performance on the national stage?

    A lot of Conservatives councillors will be elected, simply because they lack main party opposition (in some cases, any opposition).

    The Conservatives are contesting about 90% of seats, Labour about 70%, the Lib Dems about 50%, the Greens about 30%, UKIP about 14%.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    nico67 said:

    Perfect justice .

    A rhino poacher was apparently killed by an elephant and then eaten by a pride of lions . Natures perfect response.

    This was posted earlier.

    It was suggested by one poster (not me!) that perhaps to even the balance between elephants and poachers we should issue Kalashnikovs to the elephants.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741
    Charles said:

    nielh said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    A couple of weeks ago I was pretty sure Brexit was in the throes of its death rattle.

    Not for a moment did I expect Labour to revive it so it could get over the line.

    Corbyn will be a hero in the midlands/northern Brexit heartlands.

    It would be better in a sense if Jeremy gets into number 10 through those sort of votes rather than those of southern poncy types. Or would it? And in what sense exactly?
    As a R4 programme explained the Remain/Leave cultural divide isn't the Right/Left cultural divide. By and large, it's the socially liberal and well-educated, e.g. Oxford or Cheltenham vs. the socially-conservative and less-educated, e.g. Plymouth or Portsmouth.

    How about the better-off investigating how the other half live and improving the lives of people instead of pontificating on how 'no-one votes to make themselves poorer'? People vote very strangely if they think they have nothing to lose. Once this is understood, Corbyn can stop talking bollocks about 'a good Brexit'.
    The Old Families already know this. It’s the current establishment that have forgotten their duty to serve and protect
    'Old Families'. I'm not going to say what I think to that as I want to carry on being able to post here.
    I think my family is as old as anyone elses, indeed everyone elses.

    The difference between the aristocracy and the rest of us is that their voracious robber ancestors have been gilded by history.
    Indeed. Charles' 'Old Families' comment just reeks of pompous twatism.
    I don't think it is a stupid comment. It is a fact that there is old and new money, and associated values. I just wonder if there even is an establishment anymore, in the way we ordinarily understand it.
    It’s not so much money but a way of distinguishing between the political and media class that dominate the country (the establishment) and the squirearchy/local stakeholders who used to be the establishment but have largely withdraw from public life
    Its just snobbery, but you cannot see it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,741
    nico67 said:

    Perfect justice .

    A rhino poacher was apparently killed by an elephant and then eaten by a pride of lions . Natures perfect response.

    Perfect justice would be if those profiting from the absurd rhino horn trade had been eaten.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    It's good to see Corbyn is really concerned with vital issues this weekend:
    https://www.twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1114971021843533825
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,628

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Mr. Dawning, voting to leave the EU being interpreted as asking the EU to dictate our trade policy, contrary to both sides in the campaign, is ridiculous.

    It also gives them power to harm our economy as they'll be determining our trade policy without any influence whatsoever.

    There comes a point where compromise means compromising on the result the voters decided, and the customs union is that point. At least those advocating we remain are more honest and less wretched than those who want us to leave in name only.

    I've said all along, include months before the vote, that the customs union was the only 'red line' I had. It's a demented approach.

    Give it a few years and we can pull out of a customs union
    You know very well no leader is going to do that.
    Does Boris pull out ?
    Not on past evidence, no.

    Talk of pulling out of the customs union just shows why the EU wants to nail down the terms of the withdrawal agreement with no wriggle room. The casual bad faith of Leavers gives them, reasonably enough, the heebeejeebees.
    Its the stupidity which is more dangerous.

    To conduct an independent trade policy would take years of proper preparation.

    So the big chance to do so has already been pissed away by Liam Fox - with the complete tolerance of those who posture about an independent trade policy.
    That's Leavers for you. Piss up and Brewery spring to mind!
    I've always had doubts about that phrase.

    Barrels of beer aren't the most user friendly of things and has anyone ever gone to a brewery for a piss up in any case ?

    So shouldn't it be 'piss up in a pub' ?
    There was a famous case of an Irishwoman who was told she couldn't organise a pissup in a brewery. Narked, she said she would prove them wrong and invited everyone to Guinness for a birthday party - only to tell them the wrong date so they turned up 24 hours early.
    It sounds like a sitcom story.
    Even worse, it sounds like a Mrs Brown's Boys story.
    Or even Father Ted.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,247
    This is rather alarming:

    A Mysterious Infection, Spanning the Globe in a Climate of Secrecy
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/06/health/drug-resistant-candida-auris.html
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    A couple of weeks ago I was pretty sure Brexit was in the throes of its death rattle.

    Not for a moment did I expect Labour to revive it so it could get over the line.

    Corbyn will be a hero in the midlands/northern Brexit heartlands.

    It would be better in a sense if Jeremy gets into number 10 through those sort of votes rather than those of southern poncy types. Or would it? And in what sense exactly?
    As a R4 programme explained the Remain/Leave cultural divide isn't the Right/Left cultural divide. By and large, it's the socially liberal and well-educated, e.g. Oxford or Cheltenham vs. the socially-conservative and less-educated, e.g. Plymouth or Portsmouth.

    How about the better-off investigating how the other half live and improving the lives of people instead of pontificating on how 'no-one votes to make themselves poorer'? People vote very strangely if they think they have nothing to lose. Once this is understood, Corbyn can stop talking bollocks about 'a good Brexit'.
    The Old Families already know this. It’s the current establishment that have forgotten their duty to serve and protect
    'Old Families'. I'm not going to say what I think to that as I want to carry on being able to post here.
    Don’t worry, it’s not just you.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Nigelb said:

    This is rather alarming:

    A Mysterious Infection, Spanning the Globe in a Climate of Secrecy
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/06/health/drug-resistant-candida-auris.html

    Sounds like the start of a zombie apocalypse.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    ydoethur said:

    It's good to see Corbyn is really concerned with vital issues this weekend:
    https://www.twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1114971021843533825

    PM Chauncey Gardner
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    ydoethur said:

    It's good to see Corbyn is really concerned with vital issues this weekend:
    https://www.twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1114971021843533825

    Good to see he's not letting another anti-semtism story get him down (he's probably bored of reading about them) and that he's not obsessing about worrying over the Tories collapsing over Brexit.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Scott_P said:
    These Cabinet stories are just plain sad. So many times they are stated to be at war with one another and May, furious, nay, incandescent, and yet still most of them sit there. It's so blatantly people in the Cabinet trying to cover their arses. Bizarrely, since when they attempt to say they hated what May did the fact they stayed in place so long is clear evidence they were willing to accept what she was doing. At least some of them like Gove and Cox have seemingly chosen a side and are out there arguing it from time to time.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    It's good to see Corbyn is really concerned with vital issues this weekend:
    https://www.twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1114971021843533825

    Good to see he's not letting another anti-semtism story get him down (he's probably bored of reading about them) and that he's not obsessing about worrying over the Tories collapsing over Brexit.
    Tomorrow belongs to him...

    And NEW THREAD.
  • notme2notme2 Posts: 1,006
    justin124 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    timmo said:

    Out canvassing in Surrey heartlands over the weekend..real anger. A lot of expletives on the doorstep. Tories heading for a voters strike. Could be a lot of independants elected in areas.

    Could we see the biggest Con meltdown since 1995 in this years locals? :D
    Unlikely to be anything like as bad as 1995 or 1996.
    It won’t even be as bad as 2014, which was pretty bad... there is no resurgence elsewhere
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    edited April 2019
    ..
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    nielh said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    A couple of weeks ago I was pretty sure Brexit was in the throes of its death rattle.

    Not for a moment did I expect Labour to revive it so it could get over the line.

    Corbyn will be a hero in the midlands/northern Brexit heartlands.

    It would be better in a sense if Jeremy gets into number 10 through those sort of votes rather than those of southern poncy types. Or would it? And in what sense exactly?
    As a R4 programme explained the Remain/Leave cultural divide isn't the Right/Left cultural divide. By and large, it's the socially liberal and well-educated, e.g. Oxford or Cheltenham vs. the socially-conservative and less-educated, e.g. Plymouth or Portsmouth.

    How about the better-off investigating how the other half live and improving the lives of people instead of pontificating on how 'no-one votes to make themselves poorer'? People vote very strangely if they think they have nothing to lose. Once this is understood, Corbyn can stop talking bollocks about 'a good Brexit'.
    The Old Families already know this. It’s the current establishment that have forgotten their duty to serve and protect
    'Old Families'. I'm not going to say what I think to that as I want to carry on being able to post here.
    I think my family is as old as anyone elses, indeed everyone elses.

    The difference between the aristocracy and the rest of us is that their voracious robber ancestors have been gilded by history.
    Indeed. Charles' 'Old Families' comment just reeks of pompous twatism.
    I don't think it is a stupid comment. It is a fact that there is old and new money, and associated values. I just wonder if there even is an establishment anymore, in the way we ordinarily understand it.
    It’s not so much money but a way of distinguishing between the political and media class that dominate the country (the establishment) and the squirearchy/local stakeholders who used to be the establishment but have largely withdraw from public life
    Its just snobbery, but you cannot see it.
    More dislike for the fact that our political and media class is totally London centric and has forgotten that they have a duty to everyone else
This discussion has been closed.