I just wanted to write to say see you later to everyone. Spending too much time addicted to this site and not enough time getting my work done so requested TSE to temporarily ban me. Will request the ban to be lifted once I've got my work completed. Hopefully it will be before Brexit but that may not be saying much!
Sajid Javid has drifted quite a long way in the betting. He doesn't seem to have done anything wrong so much as the caravan has moved on. Has he been definitively eclipsed by Jeremy Hunt as the candidate of the self-defining pragmatic middle?
Keep in mind though the little noted decision by the Conservative Party to send four candidates through to the members ballot rather two.
That really blows everything open and at this point I'm not sure how anyone could pick a favourite in this contest.
Interesting, I missed that, when was that decided?
Just a rumour in the Sun, certainly not being discussed
I think you are member, as am I, do you think we might have been told? Well I guess maybe not. More likely it is more shit on the pages of the Sun than you generally find in a navvy's privy.
Yes I am a member and I would expect any change in the rules would be circulated to the members
Just another non story
It was a suggestion floated by Johnny "Boris give me a job" Mercer.
Completely off topic, as Pete Buttigieg comes in on Betfair, Beto O'Rourke seems to be slowly drifting out (at last-matched prices, the former has overtaken the latter). Those may be unconnected events but the relationship of prices does seem to make a certain sense, given both are fresh-faced contenders. Would others agree that they are competing for similar supporters?
I wonder what interesting things Julian Assange will have to say to the rozzers when he emerges and is duly arrested. There must be a lot of people queuing up to have a chat with him about his activities of one sort or another.
What will they arrest him for? Haven't the Swedes dropped their request for extradition due to the statute of limitations expiring?
Can he actually only be arrested for jumping bail?
I believe this explainer in the Guardian is accurate, so far as we can tell:
Interesting, thanks. Especially that last paragraph.
There would be a certain irony if having used fake fears of extradition to the US to hide from allegations of sexual misconduct, he managed to prolong matters to the extent that a change of political scenery in Washington made those fears into a reality.
Karma's a bitch.
How on earth do you deduce from that article that his fears were fake? Surely it confirms the opposite?
It is an utter disgrace that UK police resources have continued to be used to stop this man leaving the country, especially considering there's an epidemic of violent crime.
Completely off topic, as Pete Buttigieg comes in on Betfair, Beto O'Rourke seems to be slowly drifting out (at last-matched prices, the former has overtaken the latter). Those may be unconnected events but the relationship of prices does seem to make a certain sense, given both are fresh-faced contenders. Would others agree that they are competing for similar supporters?
Lord Ashcroft is trying to recruit him and Julia Hartley-Brewer for The Brexit Party
Lord Ashcroft in favour of Remain then is he?
Ahh. Julia Hartley-Brewer the Poundland Katie Hopkins
I was once interviewed by Julia Hartley-Brewer when she was on LBC about some employment law topic or another and she seemed very interested in getting me to confirm that teachers were all useless and too difficult to fire. I don’t remember exactly what the interview was about, save that it had something to do with investigating misconduct, but it sure as hell wasn’t that.
It would be shocking if May wasn’t willing to change the political declaration .
If that’s the case any Labour MP willing to back the deal now will have a hard time justifying that.
Since pretty much everything Labour wanted was available in the Withdrawal Agreement itself, why should she?
Then what’s the point of talking then . The whole point was to make changes to the PD.
No, the point was to allow May to end the marathon Cabinet meeting with no resignations by pretending there was a chance Labour would be dumb enough to agree the WA with no changes.
I wonder what interesting things Julian Assange will have to say to the rozzers when he emerges and is duly arrested. There must be a lot of people queuing up to have a chat with him about his activities of one sort or another.
What will they arrest him for? Haven't the Swedes dropped their request for extradition due to the statute of limitations expiring?
Can he actually only be arrested for jumping bail?
I believe this explainer in the Guardian is accurate, so far as we can tell:
Interesting, thanks. Especially that last paragraph.
There would be a certain irony if having used fake fears of extradition to the US to hide from allegations of sexual misconduct, he managed to prolong matters to the extent that a change of political scenery in Washington made those fears into a reality.
Karma's a bitch.
How on earth do you deduce from that article that his fears were fake? Surely it confirms the opposite?
It is an utter disgrace that UK police resources have continued to be used to stop this man leaving the country, especially considering there's an epidemic of violent crime.
Yes, it's really terrible that the police use their resources to try and catch people who break the law. They should spend it on penguin awareness courses instead.
As for the first, the US could have extradited him from here at any time for no reason, but they would have found it much harder to extradite him from Sweden which has a much less comprehensive extradition treaty and would have required our consent for onward movement.
Whether Assange did or didn't rape anyone I don't know. But his wild and patently false claims about the extradition being an American stitch-up showed one of paranoia, stupidity, or guilt.
I think probably the real problem he couldn't deal with was that the Obama administration considered him much less important than Manning. Trump, surprisingly, seems to feel the opposite way.
It would be shocking if May wasn’t willing to change the political declaration .
If that’s the case any Labour MP willing to back the deal now will have a hard time justifying that.
May is so boxed in that she can't move an inch without resignations.
She just needs to get through to Monday where MPs may impose a solution upon her, and if they don't the EU will impose a long extension upon her. Her job is reacting not acting.
It would be shocking if May wasn’t willing to change the political declaration .
If that’s the case any Labour MP willing to back the deal now will have a hard time justifying that.
Since pretty much everything Labour wanted was available in the Withdrawal Agreement itself, why should she?
Then what’s the point of talking then . The whole point was to make changes to the PD.
Well, it might have been an effort to get Labour to engage in a meaningful way with the text, which it's painfully clear none of them have read (or at least, if they have, haven't understood it).
My new early to bed regime means I have only just caught up with last nights edition of This Week... overjoyed to hear Michael Portillo make the point I have repeated ad infinitum, including in a tweet to Nigel Farage himself...
"...the middle road, the Customs Union, would have seemed marvellous to leavers four years ago, and now seems an absolute cheat"
They are not going to reward her for this. I think Parliament would rather revoke than pass her deal now.
No, guess not. Another ruse to put off the evil day by the sounds of it. Which TBF was always the most rational interpretation.
I do hope Jeremy and his team didn't waste too much time on this whole thing. They have got far more important things to do such as preparing for government.
Completely off topic, as Pete Buttigieg comes in on Betfair, Beto O'Rourke seems to be slowly drifting out (at last-matched prices, the former has overtaken the latter). Those may be unconnected events but the relationship of prices does seem to make a certain sense, given both are fresh-faced contenders. Would others agree that they are competing for similar supporters?
Seems likely. And Buttigieg is the fresher face.
I like him a lot. But it is interesting to see that amongst my American friends - who are almost all uniformly Democrat - there are some attempts being made already to smear him regarding his views on Israel. It is interesting that so far these attacks are coming from Democrats rather than Republicans since obviously the threat he poses to the other Democrat contenders is more immediate than any threat to the Republicans.
My new early to bed regime means I have only just caught up with last nights edition of This Week... overjoyed to hear Michael Portillo make the point I have repeated ad infinitum, including in a tweet to Nigel Farage himself...
"...the middle road, the Customs Union, would have seemed marvellous to leavers four years ago, and now seems an absolute cheat"
Yet they got carried away by the shift in the Overton window, overshot, and now risk losing everything.
Is that Ian Dunt's wishful thinking, or is there something more specific?
Dunt over spinning. Starmer has just said no agreement but talks continue
Neither side can really afford to be the one that walks away. They are stuck in there listening to the Maybot on loop.
As I said on Wednesday, Nothing Has Changed!
May must love being rejected, in some strange masochistic way. Today she applied again for the extension that the EU rejected last week. Nothing has changed. This afternoon she has rejected changes to the WA and PD. Nothing Has Changed. It is hard to believe that she is quite so stupid, but there we are. Any ideas as to what her "Safe word" might be?
I wonder what interesting things Julian Assange will have to say to the rozzers when he emerges and is duly arrested. There must be a lot of people queuing up to have a chat with him about his activities of one sort or another.
What will they arrest him for? Haven't the Swedes dropped their request for extradition due to the statute of limitations expiring?
Can he actually only be arrested for jumping bail?
I believe this explainer in the Guardian is accurate, so far as we can tell:
Interesting, thanks. Especially that last paragraph.
There would be a certain irony if having used fake fears of extradition to the US to hide from allegations of sexual misconduct, he managed to prolong matters to the extent that a change of political scenery in Washington made those fears into a reality.
Karma's a bitch.
How on earth do you deduce from that article that his fears were fake? Surely it confirms the opposite?
It is an utter disgrace that UK police resources have continued to be used to stop this man leaving the country, especially considering there's an epidemic of violent crime.
The guy’s an alleged rapist.
And I don’t want the police deciding which laws are worthy of enforcing vs not.
Is that Ian Dunt's wishful thinking, or is there something more specific?
Dunt over spinning. Starmer has just said no agreement but talks continue
Neither side can really afford to be the one that walks away. They are stuck in there listening to the Maybot on loop.
As I said on Wednesday, Nothing Has Changed!
May must love being rejected, in some strange masochistic way. Today she applied again for the extension that the EU rejected last week. Nothing has changed. This afternoon she has rejected changes to the WA and PD. Nothing Has Changed. It is hard to believe that she is quite so stupid, but there we are. Any ideas as to what her "Safe word" might be?
My new early to bed regime means I have only just caught up with last nights edition of This Week... overjoyed to hear Michael Portillo make the point I have repeated ad infinitum, including in a tweet to Nigel Farage himself...
"...the middle road, the Customs Union, would have seemed marvellous to leavers four years ago, and now seems an absolute cheat"
Followed by Remainer Alan Johnson saying that a referendum beteween Mays Deal and Remain would be "cooked up and bent"
I wonder what interesting things Julian Assange will have to say to the rozzers when he emerges and is duly arrested. There must be a lot of people queuing up to have a chat with him about his activities of one sort or another.
What will they arrest him for? Haven't the Swedes dropped their request for extradition due to the statute of limitations expiring?
Can he actually only be arrested for jumping bail?
I believe this explainer in the Guardian is accurate, so far as we can tell:
Interesting, thanks. Especially that last paragraph.
There would be a certain irony if having used fake fears of extradition to the US to hide from allegations of sexual misconduct, he managed to prolong matters to the extent that a change of political scenery in Washington made those fears into a reality.
Karma's a bitch.
How on earth do you deduce from that article that his fears were fake? Surely it confirms the opposite?
It is an utter disgrace that UK police resources have continued to be used to stop this man leaving the country, especially considering there's an epidemic of violent crime.
My new early to bed regime means I have only just caught up with last nights edition of This Week... overjoyed to hear Michael Portillo make the point I have repeated ad infinitum, including in a tweet to Nigel Farage himself...
"...the middle road, the Customs Union, would have seemed marvellous to leavers four years ago, and now seems an absolute cheat"
Yet they got carried away by the shift in the Overton window, overshot, and now risk losing everything.
His opening to that was that a wise man had said to him earlier in the week that ..."the problem with revolutions was that the object of the revolution changes as the revolution progresses"
Quite so. I campaigned for UKIP in 2013-15, and if you'd have told us that we would get a referendum and have won it by June 2016, I don't think anyone would have believed that we would have not been biting the PM's hand off for any deal that meant we were out.
Well, I gave Mrs May credit for reaching out to Labour and putting country. It looks like I could well have been wrong - as many on here told me I was. I’m still hoping not, though. Surely even she wouldn’t be so stupidly dishonest as that.
The definition of progressive, Biden said, seems to be shifting - now, it’s “are you a socialist?” Which he is not.
“The vast majority of the members of the Democratic party are still basically liberal to moderate Democrats in the traditional sense,” he said, asking to be defined by his views on race, women’s rights, gay rights and civil liberties. “I’ll stack my record on those things against anyone who has ever run.”
Most of the candidates who successfully defeated Republicans have been from his wing of the party, Biden said.
“Show me the really left, left, left wingers who beat a Republican,” he said. “So the idea the Democratic party is kinda stood on its head, I don’t get.”
Well, I gave Mrs May credit for reaching out to Labour and putting country. It looks like I could well have been wrong - as many on here told me I was. I’m still hoping not, though. Surely even she wouldn’t be so stupidly dishonest as that.
As I said, there was no other escape from the Cabinet meeting that allowed her to pretend nothing would change and avoid resignations.
Well, I gave Mrs May credit for reaching out to Labour and putting country. It looks like I could well have been wrong - as many on here told me I was. I’m still hoping not, though. Surely even she wouldn’t be so stupidly dishonest as that.
I suppose it depends on what was demanded. I can see her having acceded on the CU but saying no to rerunning the referendum. I actually give her no credit at all but can see that perhaps there were some red lines she still felt she could not cross.
Well, I gave Mrs May credit for reaching out to Labour and putting country. It looks like I could well have been wrong - as many on here told me I was. I’m still hoping not, though. Surely even she wouldn’t be so stupidly dishonest as that.
If it is true France, Spain and Belgium are going to refuse an extension then the HOC have to decide next Thursday
I have had a lingering suspicion for some time that May's running down the clock was not just a device to get others to agree to her deal in panic, but also because she is in reality quite sanguine about a no-deal exit. But she does not want to be blamed for it. Shifting the blame to the EU looks to be her strategy. Not that I'd be displeased with that outcome.
Well, I gave Mrs May credit for reaching out to Labour and putting country. It looks like I could well have been wrong - as many on here told me I was. I’m still hoping not, though. Surely even she wouldn’t be so stupidly dishonest as that.
If it is true France, Spain and Belgium are going to refuse an extension then the HOC have to decide next Thursday
TM deal - revoke
They will vote against TM's deal and against revoking - as previously.
Well, I gave Mrs May credit for reaching out to Labour and putting country. It looks like I could well have been wrong - as many on here told me I was. I’m still hoping not, though. Surely even she wouldn’t be so stupidly dishonest as that.
If it is true France, Spain and Belgium are going to refuse an extension then the HOC have to decide next Thursday
TM deal - revoke
They will vote against TM's deal and against revoking - as previously.
Well, I gave Mrs May credit for reaching out to Labour and putting country. It looks like I could well have been wrong - as many on here told me I was. I’m still hoping not, though. Surely even she wouldn’t be so stupidly dishonest as that.
If it is true France, Spain and Belgium are going to refuse an extension then the HOC have to decide next Thursday
TM deal - revoke
They will vote against TM's deal and against revoking - as previously.
The definition of progressive, Biden said, seems to be shifting - now, it’s “are you a socialist?” Which he is not.
“The vast majority of the members of the Democratic party are still basically liberal to moderate Democrats in the traditional sense,” he said, asking to be defined by his views on race, women’s rights, gay rights and civil liberties. “I’ll stack my record on those things against anyone who has ever run.”
Most of the candidates who successfully defeated Republicans have been from his wing of the party, Biden said.
“Show me the really left, left, left wingers who beat a Republican,” he said. “So the idea the Democratic party is kinda stood on its head, I don’t get.”
Well, I gave Mrs May credit for reaching out to Labour and putting country. It looks like I could well have been wrong - as many on here told me I was. I’m still hoping not, though. Surely even she wouldn’t be so stupidly dishonest as that.
If it is true France, Spain and Belgium are going to refuse an extension then the HOC have to decide next Thursday
My new early to bed regime means I have only just caught up with last nights edition of This Week... overjoyed to hear Michael Portillo make the point I have repeated ad infinitum, including in a tweet to Nigel Farage himself...
"...the middle road, the Customs Union, would have seemed marvellous to leavers four years ago, and now seems an absolute cheat"
Yet they got carried away by the shift in the Overton window, overshot, and now risk losing everything.
His opening to that was that a wise man had said to him earlier in the week that ..."the problem with revolutions was that the object of the revolution changes as the revolution progresses"
Quite so. I campaigned for UKIP in 2013-15, and if you'd have told us that we would get a referendum and have won it by June 2016, I don't think anyone would have believed that we would have not been biting the PM's hand off for any deal that meant we were out.
There is a Douglas Adams gag about a group of people failing to invent the wheel because they can't agree what colour a wheel should be. That is pretty much where the various factions of Leave are now.
O/T. For any of our medics here; If esophageal cancer has blocked the pipe so much that a rod had to be pushed through before a stent could be fitted, and then the stent has failed, is a feeding tube possible? I can't find anything about this
The definition of progressive, Biden said, seems to be shifting - now, it’s “are you a socialist?” Which he is not.
“The vast majority of the members of the Democratic party are still basically liberal to moderate Democrats in the traditional sense,” he said, asking to be defined by his views on race, women’s rights, gay rights and civil liberties. “I’ll stack my record on those things against anyone who has ever run.”
Most of the candidates who successfully defeated Republicans have been from his wing of the party, Biden said.
“Show me the really left, left, left wingers who beat a Republican,” he said. “So the idea the Democratic party is kinda stood on its head, I don’t get.”
Well, I gave Mrs May credit for reaching out to Labour and putting country. It looks like I could well have been wrong - as many on here told me I was. I’m still hoping not, though. Surely even she wouldn’t be so stupidly dishonest as that.
If it is true France, Spain and Belgium are going to refuse an extension then the HOC have to decide next Thursday
TM deal - revoke
If they revoke, then what?
The EU would refuse it unless we either ruled out leaving for 10 years or agreed to a flextension.
Well, I gave Mrs May credit for reaching out to Labour and putting country. It looks like I could well have been wrong - as many on here told me I was. I’m still hoping not, though. Surely even she wouldn’t be so stupidly dishonest as that.
If it is true France, Spain and Belgium are going to refuse an extension then the HOC have to decide next Thursday
TM deal - revoke
If they revoke, then what?
It would have to be voted for by the HOC next week
I have had a lingering suspicion for some time that May's running down the clock was not just a device to get others to agree to her deal in panic, but also because she is in reality quite sanguine about a no-deal exit. But she does not want to be blamed for it. Shifting the blame to the EU looks to be her strategy. Not that I'd be displeased with that outcome.
I would be bloody furious. One of my hobbyhorses on this board is "failing and blaming": the propensity of British politicians to eschew achievement (which is difficult) in favour of blaming (which is easy). It is the product of a political class which exposes its wanton incompetence and poor morals with increasing frequency.
Well, I gave Mrs May credit for reaching out to Labour and putting country. It looks like I could well have been wrong - as many on here told me I was. I’m still hoping not, though. Surely even she wouldn’t be so stupidly dishonest as that.
If it is true France, Spain and Belgium are going to refuse an extension then the HOC have to decide next Thursday
TM deal - revoke
If they revoke, then what?
The EU would refuse it unless we either ruled out leaving for 10 years or agreed to a flextension.
The EU can't refuse a revocation as long as it's done in accordance with the UK's constitutional requirements.
O/T. For any of our medics here; If esophageal cancer has blocked the pipe so much that a rod had to be pushed through before a stent could be fitted, and then the stent has failed, is a feeding tube possible? I can't find anything about this
It is possible to do a feeding gastrostomy. This is an opening from the upper abdomen to the stomach, so food gan go directly into the stomach. It is also possible to do Total Parental Nutrition intravenously.
The prognosis though at this stage is very grim indeed, and palliative care may well be kinder.
Well, I gave Mrs May credit for reaching out to Labour and putting country. It looks like I could well have been wrong - as many on here told me I was. I’m still hoping not, though. Surely even she wouldn’t be so stupidly dishonest as that.
If it is true France, Spain and Belgium are going to refuse an extension then the HOC have to decide next Thursday
TM deal - revoke
If they revoke, then what?
The EU would refuse it unless we either ruled out leaving for 10 years or agreed to a flextension.
The EU can't refuse a revocation as long as it's done in accordance with the UK's constitutional requirements.
Of course by revoking, Mrs May would achieve the feat of making herself even more unpopular.
France are now safe to say no extension and turf the Uk out. They wouldn't get the blame.
May - rightly - would.
Win win win all round.
That is utter nonsense. If France do this it will be France and their supporters who will be blamed
In a closely contested field, I think I would blame ERG most, followed by May and Corbyn, followed by the DUP, then the rest of the HoC, then Ireland. I would rank France after all that lot for responsibility for a no deal exit, but saying they are responsible is not the same thing as blaming them. I don't see what they would have done wrong.
Possible the EU might agree an extension but say no further ones will be allowed .
Alternatively Wednesday goes badly , the pound implodes on Thursday . MPs are left with revoke or no deal .
Alternatively Mays deal comes back on Thursday with MPs caving in and voting for it , EU leaders grant an emergency extension .
Wednesday goes badly , EU leaders grant an extension but with no deal ending mid May . MPs still panic and vote for the deal .
In terms of the above , a new clause amendment has been put forward by cross bench peers to the Cooper/Letwin Bill .
Effectively if no extension then the government must ask MPs if they agree to leave without a deal . If they say no then the government must revoke Article 50.
Well, I gave Mrs May credit for reaching out to Labour and putting country. It looks like I could well have been wrong - as many on here told me I was. I’m still hoping not, though. Surely even she wouldn’t be so stupidly dishonest as that.
If it is true France, Spain and Belgium are going to refuse an extension then the HOC have to decide next Thursday
TM deal - revoke
If they revoke, then what?
The EU would refuse it unless we either ruled out leaving for 10 years or agreed to a flextension.
O/T. For any of our medics here; If esophageal cancer has blocked the pipe so much that a rod had to be pushed through before a stent could be fitted, and then the stent has failed, is a feeding tube possible? I can't find anything about this
It is possible to do a feeding gastrostomy. This is an opening from the upper abdomen to the stomach, so food gan go directly into the stomach. It is also possible to do Total Parental Nutrition intravenously.
The prognosis though at this stage is very grim indeed, and palliative care may well be kinder.
Thank you. That is what I feared. My brother - nine years older than me.
Well, I gave Mrs May credit for reaching out to Labour and putting country. It looks like I could well have been wrong - as many on here told me I was. I’m still hoping not, though. Surely even she wouldn’t be so stupidly dishonest as that.
If it is true France, Spain and Belgium are going to refuse an extension then the HOC have to decide next Thursday
TM deal - revoke
If it comes down to that then it'll be a straight vote on Revocation. Yes and Brexit is cancelled, No and Brexit is Hard.
In the eleventh hour scenario there are, one would guess, far too many MPs already entrenched in their positions to get the Deal over the line at the fourth attempt. The committed Remainers, once deprived of the referendum option, will switch to Revocation; the committed Brexiteers, most of whom have always rejected the Deal or voted for it with great reluctance, will also see the Holy Grail shimmering in the near distance.
The Withdrawal Agreement only gets through if May swallows Labour Brexit hook, line and sinker, or possibly if she accedes to a referendum. Yet there is no sign of her giving any ground at all.
Well, I gave Mrs May credit for reaching out to Labour and putting country. It looks like I could well have been wrong - as many on here told me I was. I’m still hoping not, though. Surely even she wouldn’t be so stupidly dishonest as that.
If it is true France, Spain and Belgium are going to refuse an extension then the HOC have to decide next Thursday
TM deal - revoke
If they revoke, then what?
The EU would refuse it unless we either ruled out leaving for 10 years or agreed to a flextension.
The EU can't refuse a revocation as long as it's done in accordance with the UK's constitutional requirements.
Of course by revoking, Mrs May would achieve the feat of making herself even more unpopular.
Well, I gave Mrs May credit for reaching out to Labour and putting country. It looks like I could well have been wrong - as many on here told me I was. I’m still hoping not, though. Surely even she wouldn’t be so stupidly dishonest as that.
If it is true France, Spain and Belgium are going to refuse an extension then the HOC have to decide next Thursday
TM deal - revoke
If they revoke, then what?
The EU would refuse it unless we either ruled out leaving for 10 years or agreed to a flextension.
France are now safe to say no extension and turf the Uk out. They wouldn't get the blame.
May - rightly - would.
Win win win all round.
That is utter nonsense. If France do this it will be France and their supporters who will be blamed
In a closely contested field, I think I would blame ERG most, followed by May and Corbyn, followed by the DUP, then the rest of the HoC, then Ireland. I would rank France after all that lot for responsibility for a no deal exit, but saying they are responsible is not the same thing as blaming them. I don't see what they would have done wrong.
France are now safe to say no extension and turf the Uk out. They wouldn't get the blame.
May - rightly - would.
Win win win all round.
That is utter nonsense. If France do this it will be France and their supporters who will be blamed
In a closely contested field, I think I would blame ERG most, followed by May and Corbyn, followed by the DUP, then the rest of the HoC, then Ireland. I would rank France after all that lot for responsibility for a no deal exit, but saying they are responsible is not the same thing as blaming them. I don't see what they would have done wrong.
Why no blame for the Con MPs who didn't eject the clearly hopeless May as PM in December ?
I would. It was clear she was hopeless. Why didn't they change course ?
I have had a lingering suspicion for some time that May's running down the clock was not just a device to get others to agree to her deal in panic, but also because she is in reality quite sanguine about a no-deal exit. But she does not want to be blamed for it. Shifting the blame to the EU looks to be her strategy. Not that I'd be displeased with that outcome.
I would be bloody furious. One of my hobbyhorses on this board is "failing and blaming": the propensity of British politicians to eschew achievement (which is difficult) in favour of blaming (which is easy). It is the product of a political class which exposes its wanton incompetence and poor morals with increasing frequency.
I agree with you about the ridiculous blame-avoiding. But if France et al just put us out of our misery, I will feel relieved.
O/T. For any of our medics here; If esophageal cancer has blocked the pipe so much that a rod had to be pushed through before a stent could be fitted, and then the stent has failed, is a feeding tube possible? I can't find anything about this
It is possible to do a feeding gastrostomy. This is an opening from the upper abdomen to the stomach, so food gan go directly into the stomach. It is also possible to do Total Parental Nutrition intravenously.
The prognosis though at this stage is very grim indeed, and palliative care may well be kinder.
Thank you. That is what I feared. My brother - nine years older than me.
I am very sorry to hear that. It must be very difficult for you all. My best hopes for the coming days.
O/T. For any of our medics here; If esophageal cancer has blocked the pipe so much that a rod had to be pushed through before a stent could be fitted, and then the stent has failed, is a feeding tube possible? I can't find anything about this
It is possible to do a feeding gastrostomy. This is an opening from the upper abdomen to the stomach, so food gan go directly into the stomach. It is also possible to do Total Parental Nutrition intravenously.
The prognosis though at this stage is very grim indeed, and palliative care may well be kinder.
Thank you. That is what I feared. My brother - nine years older than me.
O/T. For any of our medics here; If esophageal cancer has blocked the pipe so much that a rod had to be pushed through before a stent could be fitted, and then the stent has failed, is a feeding tube possible? I can't find anything about this
It is possible to do a feeding gastrostomy. This is an opening from the upper abdomen to the stomach, so food gan go directly into the stomach. It is also possible to do Total Parental Nutrition intravenously.
The prognosis though at this stage is very grim indeed, and palliative care may well be kinder.
Thank you. That is what I feared. My brother - nine years older than me.
Well, I gave Mrs May credit for reaching out to Labour and putting country. It looks like I could well have been wrong - as many on here told me I was. I’m still hoping not, though. Surely even she wouldn’t be so stupidly dishonest as that.
If it is true France, Spain and Belgium are going to refuse an extension then the HOC have to decide next Thursday
TM deal - revoke
If they revoke, then what?
The EU would refuse it unless we either ruled out leaving for 10 years or agreed to a flextension.
They cannot refuse it. That is one constant
Mrs May would have to resign in that scenario.
If we revoke by the will of the HOC I would expect TM to invite an election for her successor in an orderly manner and hand over to her successor, once due process has been completed
I have had a lingering suspicion for some time that May's running down the clock was not just a device to get others to agree to her deal in panic, but also because she is in reality quite sanguine about a no-deal exit. But she does not want to be blamed for it. Shifting the blame to the EU looks to be her strategy. Not that I'd be displeased with that outcome.
I would be bloody furious. One of my hobbyhorses on this board is "failing and blaming": the propensity of British politicians to eschew achievement (which is difficult) in favour of blaming (which is easy). It is the product of a political class which exposes its wanton incompetence and poor morals with increasing frequency.
I agree with you about the ridiculous blame-avoiding. But if France et al just put us out of our misery, I will feel relieved.
France are now safe to say no extension and turf the Uk out. They wouldn't get the blame.
May - rightly - would.
Win win win all round.
That is utter nonsense. If France do this it will be France and their supporters who will be blamed
In a closely contested field, I think I would blame ERG most, followed by May and Corbyn, followed by the DUP, then the rest of the HoC, then Ireland. I would rank France after all that lot for responsibility for a no deal exit, but saying they are responsible is not the same thing as blaming them. I don't see what they would have done wrong.
Who cares who you would blame? It's the voters' perception of blame that matters.
Well, I gave Mrs May credit for reaching out to Labour and putting country. It looks like I could well have been wrong - as many on here told me I was. I’m still hoping not, though. Surely even she wouldn’t be so stupidly dishonest as that.
If it is true France, Spain and Belgium are going to refuse an extension then the HOC have to decide next Thursday
TM deal - revoke
If they revoke, then what?
Jeremy Corbyn pm because the tories will be monstered
O/T. For any of our medics here; If esophageal cancer has blocked the pipe so much that a rod had to be pushed through before a stent could be fitted, and then the stent has failed, is a feeding tube possible? I can't find anything about this
It is possible to do a feeding gastrostomy. This is an opening from the upper abdomen to the stomach, so food gan go directly into the stomach. It is also possible to do Total Parental Nutrition intravenously.
The prognosis though at this stage is very grim indeed, and palliative care may well be kinder.
Thank you. That is what I feared. My brother - nine years older than me.
France are now safe to say no extension and turf the Uk out. They wouldn't get the blame.
May - rightly - would.
Win win win all round.
That is utter nonsense. If France do this it will be France and their supporters who will be blamed
In a closely contested field, I think I would blame ERG most, followed by May and Corbyn, followed by the DUP, then the rest of the HoC, then Ireland. I would rank France after all that lot for responsibility for a no deal exit, but saying they are responsible is not the same thing as blaming them. I don't see what they would have done wrong.
Who cares who you would blame? It's the voters' perception of blame that matters.
Not in this context; I was talking specifically about France, and we don't vote for or against France.
Except for giving them a real caning at Eurovision, obv.
France are now safe to say no extension and turf the Uk out. They wouldn't get the blame.
May - rightly - would.
Win win win all round.
That is utter nonsense. If France do this it will be France and their supporters who will be blamed
The issue for the EU27 is not who will be blamed for No Deal by people in the UK, but who will blamed for it in the EU27. One of the things the government got wrong from the very start is its failure to understand that the important thing from a deal perspective was putting the EU27 governments under some kind of pressure in their home countries. Instead, May has constantly chased good headlines at home by pursuing a strategy that has confirmed to just about everyone in all the member states that the UK is almost entirely to blame for the current mess. The only country where there is any kind of pressure on the government is Ireland - and most of that comes from people who think that Varadeker is being too soft on the Brits.
Well, I gave Mrs May credit for reaching out to Labour and putting country. It looks like I could well have been wrong - as many on here told me I was. I’m still hoping not, though. Surely even she wouldn’t be so stupidly dishonest as that.
If it is true France, Spain and Belgium are going to refuse an extension then the HOC have to decide next Thursday
TM deal - revoke
If they revoke, then what?
Jeremy Corbyn pm because the tories will be monstered
Well, I gave Mrs May credit for reaching out to Labour and putting country. It looks like I could well have been wrong - as many on here told me I was. I’m still hoping not, though. Surely even she wouldn’t be so stupidly dishonest as that.
If it is true France, Spain and Belgium are going to refuse an extension then the HOC have to decide next Thursday
TM deal - revoke
If they revoke, then what?
Jeremy Corbyn pm because the tories will be monstered
The Tories will be out of power for 20 years if we revoke
Well, I gave Mrs May credit for reaching out to Labour and putting country. It looks like I could well have been wrong - as many on here told me I was. I’m still hoping not, though. Surely even she wouldn’t be so stupidly dishonest as that.
If it is true France, Spain and Belgium are going to refuse an extension then the HOC have to decide next Thursday
TM deal - revoke
If they revoke, then what?
The EU would refuse it unless we either ruled out leaving for 10 years or agreed to a flextension.
The EU can't refuse a revocation as long as it's done in accordance with the UK's constitutional requirements.
France are now safe to say no extension and turf the Uk out. They wouldn't get the blame.
May - rightly - would.
Win win win all round.
That is utter nonsense. If France do this it will be France and their supporters who will be blamed
In a closely contested field, I think I would blame ERG most, followed by May and Corbyn, followed by the DUP, then the rest of the HoC, then Ireland. I would rank France after all that lot for responsibility for a no deal exit, but saying they are responsible is not the same thing as blaming them. I don't see what they would have done wrong.
Who cares who you would blame? It's the voters' perception of blame that matters.
The government, the ERG and the rest of Parliament have done all they can to ensure that the EU will not be blamed for any No Deal.
Well, I gave Mrs May credit for reaching out to Labour and putting country. It looks like I could well have been wrong - as many on here told me I was. I’m still hoping not, though. Surely even she wouldn’t be so stupidly dishonest as that.
If it is true France, Spain and Belgium are going to refuse an extension then the HOC have to decide next Thursday
TM deal - revoke
If they revoke, then what?
Jeremy Corbyn pm because the tories will be monstered
The Tories will be out of power for 20 years if we revoke
If you look at the polling in France, a very large number of French voters want the UK out of the EU asap. If Macon were to facilitate that he would probably reap a positive political benefit.
The issue for the EU27 is not who will be blamed for No Deal by people in the UK, but who will blamed for it in the EU27. One of the things the government got wrong from the very start is its failure to understand that the important thing from a deal perspective was putting the EU27 governments under some kind of pressure in their home countries. Instead, May has constantly chased good headlines at home by pursuing a strategy that has confirmed to just about everyone in all the member states that the UK is almost entirely to blame for the current mess. The only country where there is any kind of pressure on the government is Ireland - and most of that comes from people who think that Varadeker is being too soft on the Brits.
Whilst all that is true, I'm not sure there's much she could have done about it. EU27 governments will nonetheless be aware that they will cop some blame if the no-deal chaos become reality.
Here's one example of the potential problems they could hit:
Well, I gave Mrs May credit for reaching out to Labour and putting country. It looks like I could well have been wrong - as many on here told me I was. I’m still hoping not, though. Surely even she wouldn’t be so stupidly dishonest as that.
If it is true France, Spain and Belgium are going to refuse an extension then the HOC have to decide next Thursday
TM deal - revoke
If they revoke, then what?
The EU would refuse it unless we either ruled out leaving for 10 years or agreed to a flextension.
The EU can't refuse a revocation as long as it's done in accordance with the UK's constitutional requirements.
Did that right continue past March 29th?
We're still full members of the EU the same as we were before the 29th, so yes.
Well, I gave Mrs May credit for reaching out to Labour and putting country. It looks like I could well have been wrong - as many on here told me I was. I’m still hoping not, though. Surely even she wouldn’t be so stupidly dishonest as that.
If it is true France, Spain and Belgium are going to refuse an extension then the HOC have to decide next Thursday
TM deal - revoke
If they revoke, then what?
Jeremy Corbyn pm because the tories will be monstered
The Tories will be out of power for 20 years if we revoke
Well, I gave Mrs May credit for reaching out to Labour and putting country. It looks like I could well have been wrong - as many on here told me I was. I’m still hoping not, though. Surely even she wouldn’t be so stupidly dishonest as that.
If it is true France, Spain and Belgium are going to refuse an extension then the HOC have to decide next Thursday
TM deal - revoke
If they revoke, then what?
Jeremy Corbyn pm because the tories will be monstered
Comments
If that’s the case any Labour MP willing to back the deal now will have a hard time justifying that.
Looks like MPs are sooner or later going to have to pass her Deal. There comes a point when resistance is futile.
It is an utter disgrace that UK police resources have continued to be used to stop this man leaving the country, especially considering there's an epidemic of violent crime.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/apr/05/gchq-discloses-secret-location-of-former-london-office
As for the first, the US could have extradited him from here at any time for no reason, but they would have found it much harder to extradite him from Sweden which has a much less comprehensive extradition treaty and would have required our consent for onward movement.
Whether Assange did or didn't rape anyone I don't know. But his wild and patently false claims about the extradition being an American stitch-up showed one of paranoia, stupidity, or guilt.
I think probably the real problem he couldn't deal with was that the Obama administration considered him much less important than Manning. Trump, surprisingly, seems to feel the opposite way.
She just needs to get through to Monday where MPs may impose a solution upon her, and if they don't the EU will impose a long extension upon her. Her job is reacting not acting.
"...the middle road, the Customs Union, would have seemed marvellous to leavers four years ago, and now seems an absolute cheat"
I do hope Jeremy and his team didn't waste too much time on this whole thing. They have got far more important things to do such as preparing for government.
May must love being rejected, in some strange masochistic way. Today she applied again for the extension that the EU rejected last week. Nothing has changed. This afternoon she has rejected changes to the WA and PD. Nothing Has Changed. It is hard to believe that she is quite so stupid, but there we are. Any ideas as to what her "Safe word" might be?
And I don’t want the police deciding which laws are worthy of enforcing vs not.
I believe their motto is 'safe, sane, and consensual'. That doesn't tally with May's approach.
Quite so. I campaigned for UKIP in 2013-15, and if you'd have told us that we would get a referendum and have won it by June 2016, I don't think anyone would have believed that we would have not been biting the PM's hand off for any deal that meant we were out.
https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/1114210030700593152
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2019/apr/05/trump-news-today-latest-mueller-report-democrats-elizabeth-warren-filibuster-live-updates
An excerpt:
The definition of progressive, Biden said, seems to be shifting - now, it’s “are you a socialist?” Which he is not.
“The vast majority of the members of the Democratic party are still basically liberal to moderate Democrats in the traditional sense,” he said, asking to be defined by his views on race, women’s rights, gay rights and civil liberties. “I’ll stack my record on those things against anyone who has ever run.”
Most of the candidates who successfully defeated Republicans have been from his wing of the party, Biden said.
“Show me the really left, left, left wingers who beat a Republican,” he said. “So the idea the Democratic party is kinda stood on its head, I don’t get.”
TM deal - revoke
May - rightly - would.
Win win win all round.
We have dithered and delayed - no excuses now if the EU lose patience.
The prognosis though at this stage is very grim indeed, and palliative care may well be kinder.
Alternatively Wednesday goes badly , the pound implodes on Thursday . MPs are left with revoke or no deal .
Alternatively Mays deal comes back on Thursday with MPs caving in and voting for it , EU leaders grant an emergency extension .
Wednesday goes badly , EU leaders grant an extension but with no deal ending mid May . MPs still panic and vote for the deal .
In terms of the above , a new clause amendment has been put forward by cross bench peers to the Cooper/Letwin Bill .
Effectively if no extension then the government must ask MPs if they agree to leave without a deal . If they say no then the government must revoke Article 50.
In the eleventh hour scenario there are, one would guess, far too many MPs already entrenched in their positions to get the Deal over the line at the fourth attempt. The committed Remainers, once deprived of the referendum option, will switch to Revocation; the committed Brexiteers, most of whom have always rejected the Deal or voted for it with great reluctance, will also see the Holy Grail shimmering in the near distance.
The Withdrawal Agreement only gets through if May swallows Labour Brexit hook, line and sinker, or possibly if she accedes to a referendum. Yet there is no sign of her giving any ground at all.
I would. It was clear she was hopeless. Why didn't they change course ?
Except for giving them a real caning at Eurovision, obv.
Here's one example of the potential problems they could hit:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/apr/05/eu-confirms-it-wants-short-term-fisheries-arrangement-with-uk-no-deal-brexit-fishing