Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - so a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
That's f***ing stupid if Parliament agrees that. International relations is not a devolved matter.
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - in which case a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
its the mass resignations of voters that will do it for the tories for betraying the referendum promise. PM Corbyn is now guaranteed
No because May will be defenestrated before she goes to the polls. No way Tory MPs allow her another General Election. Her successor will be a Brexiteer (original or born-again like Hunt).
but if we are forced with a referendum to choose between Mays crap deal and Remain, I suspect Remain would win and we will be forever locked into the EU Superstate. Leavers will desert the tories regardless of who the leader is
Nothing is forever. There will be great divisions still in the nation and a clamour for a hard Brexiteer to either take over the Tories or in another party. And next time a hard Brexiteer becomes PM there will be a push to finish the job and exit but this time without the government opposing it every step of the way.
its the mass resignations of voters that will do it for the tories for betraying the referendum promise. PM Corbyn is now guaranteed
No because May will be defenestrated before she goes to the polls. No way Tory MPs allow her another General Election. Her successor will be a Brexiteer (original or born-again like Hunt).
but if we are forced with a referendum to choose between Mays crap deal and Remain, I suspect Remain would win and we will be forever locked into the EU Superstate. Leavers will desert the tories regardless of who the leader is
The leavers who care about the EU to the exclusion of everything else perhaps - definitely not "all leavers". My parents are leavers and they wouldn't vote for Corbyn is any circumstances.
Only 10% of Tory MPs voted for Customs Union in the indicative votes. You really think one of them is going to be May's successor?
I have no idea who will succeed TM. Yesterday speculations was that 20 plus mps want to put their name forward and only when the time comes and the hustings take place will I turn my attention to it
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - in which case a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - so a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
That's f***ing stupid if Parliament agrees that. International relations is not a devolved matter.
No reason why they can't be though. I suspect if the Union is to survive it will have to be as a more federal arrangement. From an English point of view, I am fine with that.
Only 10% of Tory MPs voted for Customs Union in the indicative votes. You really think one of them is going to be May's successor?
I have no idea who will succeed TM. Yesterday speculations was that 20 plus mps want to put their name forward and only when the time comes and the hustings take place will I turn my attention to it
Over 200 MPs opposed the Customs Union, just over 30 backed it, in the indicative votes. All evidence shows Tory members are opposed to it too.
Odds are that May's successor will be opposed to the Customs Union. Therefore what I posited is not wishful thinking, it is highly probable.
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - so a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
That's f***ing stupid if Parliament agrees that. International relations is not a devolved matter.
No reason why they can't be though. I suspect if the Union is to survive it will have to be as a more federal arrangement. From an English point of view, I am fine with that.
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - so a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
That's f***ing stupid if Parliament agrees that. International relations is not a devolved matter.
No reason why they can't be though. I suspect if the Union is to survive it will have to be as a more federal arrangement. From an English point of view, I am fine with that.
I would support the idea as it locks in the deal and is likely to receive thr backing of the devolved mps including the snp
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - so a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
That's f***ing stupid if Parliament agrees that. International relations is not a devolved matter.
No reason why they can't be though. I suspect if the Union is to survive it will have to be as a more federal arrangement. From an English point of view, I am fine with that.
I would support the idea as it locks in the deal and is likely to receive thr backing of the devolved mps including the snp
a future parliament can overturn a devo lock if it wishes to
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - in which case a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - so a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
That's f***ing stupid if Parliament agrees that. International relations is not a devolved matter.
No reason why they can't be though. I suspect if the Union is to survive it will have to be as a more federal arrangement. From an English point of view, I am fine with that.
I'd rather dissolve the Union.
That seems to be the policy of ERG and why they will lose
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - so a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
That's f***ing stupid if Parliament agrees that. International relations is not a devolved matter.
No reason why they can't be though. I suspect if the Union is to survive it will have to be as a more federal arrangement. From an English point of view, I am fine with that.
The Union has to change. Doing so in haphazard fashion without much thought beyond short term calculations is probably not a great way of doing things, but it is very on brand for these islands.
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - so a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
That's f***ing stupid if Parliament agrees that. International relations is not a devolved matter.
No reason why they can't be though. I suspect if the Union is to survive it will have to be as a more federal arrangement. From an English point of view, I am fine with that.
I'd rather dissolve the Union.
That seems to be the policy of ERG and why they will lose
Feels like a dangerous end game of English nationalism....
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - so a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
That's f***ing stupid if Parliament agrees that. International relations is not a devolved matter.
Why not? Parliament appears to have abandoned parliamentary sovereignty to popular sovereignty as a result of this referendum. The whole constitution’s up for grabs it appears.
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - so a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
That's f***ing stupid if Parliament agrees that. International relations is not a devolved matter.
No reason why they can't be though. I suspect if the Union is to survive it will have to be as a more federal arrangement. From an English point of view, I am fine with that.
I'd rather dissolve the Union.
The brutal truth is that England is being kept in the EU by Scotland and Ireland......
PV has the chance that Brexit fails completely. Since the leave option will be May's deal, which is already about as palatable as a cup of cold sick for plenty of Brexiteers and losing the second ref, heck even holding it would utterly destroy the Tories there is no way May can concede to whip for that.
CM2.0/EFTA/EEA/Boles etc is nice from a business PoV but violates May's FoM red line, so is probably out (It's my preferred option if you're all wondering !)
So we're left with CU which whilst unpalatable from an economic perspective (The Irish shells could well be fired up for export) i) Guarantees Brexit actually happens ii) Can keep the FoM red line.
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - so a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
That's f***ing stupid if Parliament agrees that. International relations is not a devolved matter.
No reason why they can't be though. I suspect if the Union is to survive it will have to be as a more federal arrangement. From an English point of view, I am fine with that.
I'd rather dissolve the Union.
The brutal truth is that England is being kept in the EU by Scotland and Ireland......
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - in which case a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
How does this happen? Parliament cannot bind its successors.
No situation - Brexit or anything - should remove future flexibility. There may be future conditions where governments MUST act without excessive restraint. I fear that the EU will not survive its inner contradictions and will collapse Yugoslavia like. I do not want my children or potential grandchildren forced to fight in an EU war caused by the desire to build a United States of Europe.
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - so a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
That's f***ing stupid if Parliament agrees that. International relations is not a devolved matter.
No reason why they can't be though. I suspect if the Union is to survive it will have to be as a more federal arrangement. From an English point of view, I am fine with that.
I'd rather dissolve the Union.
The brutal truth is that England is being kept in the EU by Scotland and Ireland......
Not really, England is being kept in the EU by the Civil Service. Scotland and Ireland are just part of a blackmail strategy.
one thing about Brexit, the outcome has been so unpredictable, and even now as things come to a head, no one can say for certain how it will end up, its an enigma of the most frustrating kind, its driving us all mad
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - so a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
That's f***ing stupid if Parliament agrees that. International relations is not a devolved matter.
No reason why they can't be though. I suspect if the Union is to survive it will have to be as a more federal arrangement. From an English point of view, I am fine with that.
one thing about Brexit, the outcome has been so unpredictable, and even now as things come to a head, no one can say for certain how it will end up, its an enigma of the most frustrating kind, its driving us all mad
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - so a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
That's f***ing stupid if Parliament agrees that. International relations is not a devolved matter.
No reason why they can't be though. I suspect if the Union is to survive it will have to be as a more federal arrangement. From an English point of view, I am fine with that.
I'd rather dissolve the Union.
The brutal truth is that England is being kept in the EU by Scotland and Ireland......
Not really, England is being kept in the EU by the Civil Service. Scotland and Ireland are just part of a blackmail strategy.
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - in which case a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
one thing about Brexit, the outcome has been so unpredictable, and even now as things come to a head, no one can say for certain how it will end up, its an enigma of the most frustrating kind, its driving us all mad
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - in which case a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
How does this happen? Parliament cannot bind its successors.
No situation - Brexit or anything - should remove future flexibility. There may be future conditions where governments MUST act without excessive restraint. I fear that the EU will not survive its inner contradictions and will collapse Yugoslavia like. I do not want my children or potential grandchildren forced to fight in an EU war caused by the desire to build a United States of Europe.
That's a pretty high bar.
"We shouldn't borrow money, because that removes future flexibility" "We shouldn't join the International Telecoms Union because we might want to have out own form of telecoms numbering in the future"
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - so a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
That's f***ing stupid if Parliament agrees that. International relations is not a devolved matter.
No reason why they can't be though. I suspect if the Union is to survive it will have to be as a more federal arrangement. From an English point of view, I am fine with that.
I'd rather dissolve the Union.
That seems to be the policy of ERG and why they will lose
Feels like a dangerous end game of English nationalism....
Why is Scottish nationalism something to be proud of but English nationalism is dangerous?
A Scot feels like he wants Scottish MSPs to set Scottish laws that's viewed as honorable. If I say as an Englishman I want English MPs to set English laws then that's dangerous?
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - in which case a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
How does this happen? Parliament cannot bind its successors.
It can - through treaties. Look how bound the current parliament is by the GFA (rightly so).
Ultimately, any government can choose to abrogate treaties if they so desire. There may be (unpalatable political) consequences for doing so, but there is no International court the UK can be dragged in front of if we decided we didn't want to be bound by the Good Friday Agreement, the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, or any number of other treaties we entered into without exit clauses.
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - in which case a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
How does this happen? Parliament cannot bind its successors.
No situation - Brexit or anything - should remove future flexibility. There may be future conditions where governments MUST act without excessive restraint. I fear that the EU will not survive its inner contradictions and will collapse Yugoslavia like. I do not want my children or potential grandchildren forced to fight in an EU war caused by the desire to build a United States of Europe.
Isn't that argument contradictory? Is the EU going to collapse in on itself, or become a belligerent power? When has Britain/England ever been insulated from European geopolitics before?
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - so a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
That's f***ing stupid if Parliament agrees that. International relations is not a devolved matter.
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - so a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
That's f***ing stupid if Parliament agrees that. International relations is not a devolved matter.
No reason why they can't be though. I suspect if the Union is to survive it will have to be as a more federal arrangement. From an English point of view, I am fine with that.
I'd rather dissolve the Union.
That seems to be the policy of ERG and why they will lose
Feels like a dangerous end game of English nationalism....
Why is Scottish nationalism something to be proud of but English nationalism is dangerous?
A Scot feels like he wants Scottish MSPs to set Scottish laws that's viewed as honorable. If I say as an Englishman I want English MPs to set English laws then that's dangerous?
Are yyou so stupid that you don't know that you already set your own laws
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - in which case a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
How does this happen? Parliament cannot bind its successors.
No situation - Brexit or anything - should remove future flexibility. There may be future conditions where governments MUST act without excessive restraint. I fear that the EU will not survive its inner contradictions and will collapse Yugoslavia like. I do not want my children or potential grandchildren forced to fight in an EU war caused by the desire to build a United States of Europe.
Isn't that argument contradictory? Is the EU going to collapse in on itself, or become a belligerent power? When has Britain/England ever been insulated from European geopolitics before?
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - so a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
That's f***ing stupid if Parliament agrees that. International relations is not a devolved matter.
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - so a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
That's f***ing stupid if Parliament agrees that. International relations is not a devolved matter.
No reason why they can't be though. I suspect if the Union is to survive it will have to be as a more federal arrangement. From an English point of view, I am fine with that.
I'd rather dissolve the Union.
The brutal truth is that England is being kept in the EU by Scotland and Ireland......
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - so a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
That's f***ing stupid if Parliament agrees that. International relations is not a devolved matter.
No reason why they can't be though. I suspect if the Union is to survive it will have to be as a more federal arrangement. From an English point of view, I am fine with that.
I'd rather dissolve the Union.
You prefer the Dictatorship, how surprising. You will get your wish soon.
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - in which case a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
How does this happen? Parliament cannot bind its successors.
No situation - Brexit or anything - should remove future flexibility. There may be future conditions where governments MUST act without excessive restraint. I fear that the EU will not survive its inner contradictions and will collapse Yugoslavia like. I do not want my children or potential grandchildren forced to fight in an EU war caused by the desire to build a United States of Europe.
Isn't that argument contradictory? Is the EU going to collapse in on itself, or become a belligerent power? When has Britain/England ever been insulated from European geopolitics before?
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - in which case a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
How does this happen? Parliament cannot bind its successors.
No situation - Brexit or anything - should remove future flexibility. There may be future conditions where governments MUST act without excessive restraint. I fear that the EU will not survive its inner contradictions and will collapse Yugoslavia like. I do not want my children or potential grandchildren forced to fight in an EU war caused by the desire to build a United States of Europe.
That's a pretty high bar.
"We shouldn't borrow money, because that removes future flexibility" "We shouldn't join the International Telecoms Union because we might want to have out own form of telecoms numbering in the future"
etc.
Article 57 of the International Telecoms Union allows any nation to denounce and exit the ITU by providing one year's notice of its desire to do so. So no future Parliament is bound to it.
Why would they when Tory Remainers [excluding a tiny number of extremists like Grieve] are already backing May's Deal without a customs union?
Clarke backs a customs union but he also backs May's Deal without a customs union. Though yes a new PM seeking a mandate to drop the customs union from the public at a general election would work too.
Apparently, part of the deal on a Customs Union would be that the devolved parliaments would get a veto on any future changes to the political declaration - in which case a Hard Brexiteer becoming PM wouldn't be enough to "drop the customs union", there'd need to be Hard Brexiteers as the Scottish and Welsh First Ministers too.
How does this happen? Parliament cannot bind its successors.
No situation - Brexit or anything - should remove future flexibility. There may be future conditions where governments MUST act without excessive restraint. I fear that the EU will not survive its inner contradictions and will collapse Yugoslavia like. I do not want my children or potential grandchildren forced to fight in an EU war caused by the desire to build a United States of Europe.
That's a pretty high bar.
"We shouldn't borrow money, because that removes future flexibility" "We shouldn't join the International Telecoms Union because we might want to have out own form of telecoms numbering in the future"
etc.
Article 57 of the International Telecoms Union allows any nation to denounce and exit the ITU by providing one year's notice of its desire to do so. So no future Parliament is bound to it.
1) I said excessive restraint 2) Power should always be devolved downwards to the appropriate level where it can be wielded by representatives close enough to the people to manage it for the good of the community. National finance, foreign affairs and defence should be managed at the level which manages our international relations. Other matters could and should be devolved to national governments, regions and councils provided standards and efficiencies are retained.I believe in the UK as a basic unit and therefore would want to retain taxation, foreign affairs and defence at a UK level - and thus control of Brexit at that level. The incompetence of the negotiations is testing my view to destruction however.
Comments
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-47805900
Sounds an awful lot like Labour's leadership contest which gave us Jezza!
Could we end up with JRM becoming PM?
Odds are that May's successor will be opposed to the Customs Union. Therefore what I posited is not wishful thinking, it is highly probable.
CM2.0/EFTA/EEA/Boles etc is nice from a business PoV but violates May's FoM red line, so is probably out (It's my preferred option if you're all wondering !)
So we're left with CU which whilst unpalatable from an economic perspective (The Irish shells could well be fired up for export)
i) Guarantees Brexit actually happens
ii) Can keep the FoM red line.
That really does seem to open things up for Boris because Con MPs can keep him off the final two but the four???
"We shouldn't borrow money, because that removes future flexibility"
"We shouldn't join the International Telecoms Union because we might want to have out own form of telecoms numbering in the future"
etc.
A Scot feels like he wants Scottish MSPs to set Scottish laws that's viewed as honorable.
If I say as an Englishman I want English MPs to set English laws then that's dangerous?
resigned
2) Power should always be devolved downwards to the appropriate level where it can be wielded by representatives close enough to the people to manage it for the good of the community. National finance, foreign affairs and defence should be managed at the level which manages our international relations. Other matters could and should be devolved to national governments, regions and councils provided standards and efficiencies are retained.I believe in the UK as a basic unit and therefore would want to retain taxation, foreign affairs and defence at a UK level - and thus control of Brexit at that level. The incompetence of the negotiations is testing my view to destruction however.