It won't pass because it is foolish and dumb. A referendum that doesn't resolve things isn't going to be agreed, period. And a referedum that unites hard Brexiters and hard remainers - the two most motivated groups - in campaigning against a government deal would be an obvious disaster waiting to happen.
But the same point applies to DEAL v REMAIN. Those same 2 most motivated groups would be united in campaigning against the Deal.
A Deal v Remain referendum would force Brexiteers to confront the essential question of whether they truly want to leave in practice, in a world in which the EU continues to exist.
Some will campaign for the deal. Some will say Brexit is pointless and we might as well stay. Some may duck the question and try to discredit the vote.
Whatever happens, we will get a clear and legitimate result that we can implement without further delay.
Complete nonsense.
It is in no way fair to have Remain vs a version of Leave that a whole tranche of Leavers think is terrible. Such a referendum would give an enormous advantage to Remain
Please see my previous post. ‘No Deal’ doesn’t mean anything and therefore it can’t be on a referendum if we are to learn anything from the clusterf*ck of the last few years. Each option must be concrete, clear, and deliverable.
It won't pass because it is foolish and dumb. A referendum that doesn't resolve things isn't going to be agreed, period. And a referedum that unites hard Brexiters and hard remainers - the two most motivated groups - in campaigning against a government deal would be an obvious disaster waiting to happen.
But the same point applies to DEAL v REMAIN. Those same 2 most motivated groups would be united in campaigning against the Deal.
A Deal v Remain referendum would force Brexiteers to confront the essential question of whether they truly want to leave in practice, in a world in which the EU continues to exist.
Some will campaign for the deal. Some will say Brexit is pointless and we might as well stay. Some may duck the question and try to discredit the vote.
Whatever happens, we will get a clear and legitimate result that we can implement without further delay.
Complete nonsense.
It is in no way fair to have Remain vs a version of Leave that a whole tranche of Leavers think is terrible. Such a referendum would give an enormous advantage to Remain
How can you offer versions of leave that are merely unicorns and could not be created. Any subsequent referendum can only be for acceptable plausible options...
Surely the answer for both parties is that they agree to allow a free vote in the House on a PV.
Then ignore the result as they have the referendum ?
The referendum hasn't been ignored, but has been pursued beyond all reason. Hence the mess we are in.
It has been pursued by those lacking reason. Hence the mess we are in.
To be fair, the referendum was so vague that it spawned a number of factions that can't decide what 'Leave' meant. If it had been defined Remain would have been by far the largest faction at 48%.
If only Cameron had talked to Australia's John Howard, about how to stitch up a referendum to get the result you want.
Set up a special commision to propose the type of brexit the government would be striving for, then hold a referendum status quo vs the proposed Brexit. The "Leave but not this type of Leave" voters would be split between Leave/Abstain and Remain.
It won't pass because it is foolish and dumb. A referendum that doesn't resolve things isn't going to be agreed, period. And a referedum that unites hard Brexiters and hard remainers - the two most motivated groups - in campaigning against a government deal would be an obvious disaster waiting to happen.
But the same point applies to DEAL v REMAIN. Those same 2 most motivated groups would be united in campaigning against the Deal.
A Deal v Remain referendum would force Brexiteers to confront the essential question of whether they truly want to leave in practice, in a world in which the EU continues to exist.
Some will campaign for the deal. Some will say Brexit is pointless and we might as well stay. Some may duck the question and try to discredit the vote.
Whatever happens, we will get a clear and legitimate result that we can implement without further delay.
Complete nonsense.
It is in no way fair to have Remain vs a version of Leave that a whole tranche of Leavers think is terrible. Such a referendum would give an enormous advantage to Remain
How can you offer versions of leave that are merely unicorns and could not be created. Any subsequent referendum can only be for acceptable plausible options...
Mays deal is a version of Leave that has been created.
AIUI the scooby cooper bill means parliament must approve the extension, so if the EU come back with something different to Mays request it has to pass parliament on Thursday.... is cooper facilitating an accidental no deal?
Given their "in principle" notion only passed by one vote, you might think so....once the MPs have to swallow hard on the EUs eye-watering terms.
I'd rather MPs just revoked than put us through a second referendum. If they can't implement the first one that gave them an answer they didn't want don't ask me again. just do it.
I am from the Remain side of the argument. I think leaving the EU is an act of monumental stupidity. In fact I can think of only one thing in our recent history to match it in the stupidity stakes and that was the decision to allow the people to choose it in a referendum.
Nevertheless I agree with you. It was a clear win for Leave and it is now up to the politicians to make the best of it. If they can't agree to leave in an orderly fashion, and they are not prepared to leave in a disorderly fashion, then they should take it on the chin and cancel.
The ideal vote on monday should be TM deal v revoke
The problem here is that a lot of people want no deal. It seems to be something close to 50%. However much they are warned, they persist in believing it is the right thing to do. It is what they have been promised again and again, mostly by the conservative party. It seems to me that revoking would do unthinkable harm not just to the politicians and the conservative party, but also the entire system of representative democracy, and the labour party if they vote for it. A better option (but by no means perfect) is to simply admit that the deal cannot work, and propose an extension and second referendum, but unless no deal is an option in such a referendum, the sense of betrayal will prevail.
If so, one wonders why there are 10x more petition signatures for cancelling it
Revoke 6,000,000 No Deal 600,000
Are lots of ultra-leave voters unable to sign a petition due to not having a PC? Or are there fewer people than we're told who are really committed to economic chaos? I think that we should be told the details.
The Readers' Digest Presidential election survey of 1936, gives you the answer.
The Literary Digest, to be pedantic.
Plus I think you are wrong; we are all computer literate these days. That said, I think there is are two simple reasons for the discrepancy, one being that No deal leave is a subset of leave, and the other that you don't have to ask for what you have already (at least on paper) got.
There was celeb tweeting which got the revoke petition motoring (lily allen?)
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Set up a special commision to propose the type of brexit the government would be striving for, then hold a referendum status quo vs the proposed Brexit. The "Leave but not this type of Leave" voters would be split between Leave/Abstain and Remain.