Two SNP politicians are locked in an “abuse” battle on Twitter after making tit-for-tat complaints about each other in a row over transgender rights.
Gregor Murray, a councillor in Dundee, told Joan McAlpine, the chairwoman of Holyrood’s equalities committee, that she “lacks the necessary brain cells” to be an MSP.
Ms McAlpine, 57, has launched an internal party grievance against the councillor, who objects to being referred to with the pronoun “he” and claims to have been made to feel “unwelcome” in the SNP by the MSP.
Mr Murray, who is Scotland’s only transgender councillor, has sent a litany of foul-mouthed tweets to critics online. In one, he said: “No one is erasing lesbians. These are TERFs [trans-exclusionary radical feminists], literally stopping LGBTI progress, to protest something that only exists in their head. They’re making us feel unwelcome at Pride. Horrific. Utter c****.” Another said: “Where’s YOUR f****** solidarity, you transphobic b******?” A third said: “Get to f*** with your mediaeval views, you horrible bigot.”
Gregor Murray, who resigned as children and families convener and the council’s equalities spokesperson last year following a series of expletive-laden online outbursts ...
Two SNP politicians are locked in an “abuse” battle on Twitter after making tit-for-tat complaints about each other in a row over transgender rights.
Gregor Murray, a councillor in Dundee, told Joan McAlpine, the chairwoman of Holyrood’s equalities committee, that she “lacks the necessary brain cells” to be an MSP.
Ms McAlpine, 57, has launched an internal party grievance against the councillor, who objects to being referred to with the pronoun “he” and claims to have been made to feel “unwelcome” in the SNP by the MSP.
Mr Murray, who is Scotland’s only transgender councillor, has sent a litany of foul-mouthed tweets to critics online. In one, he said: “No one is erasing lesbians. These are TERFs [trans-exclusionary radical feminists], literally stopping LGBTI progress, to protest something that only exists in their head. They’re making us feel unwelcome at Pride. Horrific. Utter c****.” Another said: “Where’s YOUR f****** solidarity, you transphobic b******?” A third said: “Get to f*** with your mediaeval views, you horrible bigot.”
The mysterious groups, which have names such as Mainstream Network and Britain’s Future, appear to be run independently by members of the public and give no hint that they are connected. But in reality they share an administrator who works for Crosby’s CTF Partners and have spent as much as £1m promoting sophisticated targeted adverts aimed at heaping pressure on individual MPs to vote for a hard Brexit.
Repeated questions have been raised about who is backing at least a dozen high-spending groups that have flooded MPs’ inboxes with calls to reject Theresa May’s deal, but until now they were thought to be independent entities...
I thought May wanted indicative votes on Monday in case she and Jez couldnt come up with something. or does she not want them controlled by backbenchers.
It was a big moment as the backbenchers cannot put forward their indicative votes including a referendum or revoke. The look on the faces of the TIGS and SNP said it all as they see their dreams disappear
SNP dreams alive and well G, referendum still on the cards
I know you hope for it Malc, but after all this chaos not sure your fellow Scots will want to go down that route again in the near future.
G, I cannot see why they would not want to, UK is in serious trouble, Scotland has been traduced by the Tories, I just cannot see why anyone with any self respect would not want out of the UK. We are a 1000% more a vassal state than the nutjobs think England is in the EU. We are subservient to Westminster and any fool that thinks that is a good thing is not the full tattie. PS: SNP have a mandate to have one before the next election.
Two SNP politicians are locked in an “abuse” battle on Twitter after making tit-for-tat complaints about each other in a row over transgender rights.
Gregor Murray, a councillor in Dundee, told Joan McAlpine, the chairwoman of Holyrood’s equalities committee, that she “lacks the necessary brain cells” to be an MSP.
Ms McAlpine, 57, has launched an internal party grievance against the councillor, who objects to being referred to with the pronoun “he” and claims to have been made to feel “unwelcome” in the SNP by the MSP.
Mr Murray, who is Scotland’s only transgender councillor, has sent a litany of foul-mouthed tweets to critics online. In one, he said: “No one is erasing lesbians. These are TERFs [trans-exclusionary radical feminists], literally stopping LGBTI progress, to protest something that only exists in their head. They’re making us feel unwelcome at Pride. Horrific. Utter c****.” Another said: “Where’s YOUR f****** solidarity, you transphobic b******?” A third said: “Get to f*** with your mediaeval views, you horrible bigot.”
I thought May wanted indicative votes on Monday in case she and Jez couldnt come up with something. or does she not want them controlled by backbenchers.
It was a big moment as the backbenchers cannot put forward their indicative votes including a referendum or revoke. The look on the faces of the TIGS and SNP said it all as they see their dreams disappear
SNP dreams alive and well G, referendum still on the cards
I know you hope for it Malc, but after all this chaos not sure your fellow Scots will want to go down that route again in the near future.
G, I cannot see why they would not want to, UK is in serious trouble, Scotland has been traduced by the Tories, I just cannot see why anyone with any self respect would not want out of the UK. We are a 1000% more a vassal state than the nutjobs think England is in the EU. We are subservient to Westminster and any fool that thinks that is a good thing is not the full tattie. PS: SNP have a mandate to have one before the next election.
I suppose we really cannot be certain of anything these days
Two SNP politicians are locked in an “abuse” battle on Twitter after making tit-for-tat complaints about each other in a row over transgender rights.
Gregor Murray, a councillor in Dundee, told Joan McAlpine, the chairwoman of Holyrood’s equalities committee, that she “lacks the necessary brain cells” to be an MSP.
Ms McAlpine, 57, has launched an internal party grievance against the councillor, who objects to being referred to with the pronoun “he” and claims to have been made to feel “unwelcome” in the SNP by the MSP.
Mr Murray, who is Scotland’s only transgender councillor, has sent a litany of foul-mouthed tweets to critics online. In one, he said: “No one is erasing lesbians. These are TERFs [trans-exclusionary radical feminists], literally stopping LGBTI progress, to protest something that only exists in their head. They’re making us feel unwelcome at Pride. Horrific. Utter c****.” Another said: “Where’s YOUR f****** solidarity, you transphobic b******?” A third said: “Get to f*** with your mediaeval views, you horrible bigot.”
Yep. Corbyn simply cannot afford to be the man who sinks the PV by reaching an agreement with May without it. At the least he needs to know it will go to the vote as an option or amendment on Monday. Otherwise he will be crucified by his members.
Looking at the talks between May and Corbyn today from the Labour side, does anyone else think that if Corbyn were to agree a resolution that say had a CU or even a SM commitment attached to it, that it would be electoral suicide for Labour. Most metropolitan Labour voters are baying for a 2nd ref and I get the impression that the northern Labour leaver contingent don't think that much of JC anyway and he is far from guaranteed their vote in any outcome at the next election. Tories could get themselves a fresh young credible leader (easier said than done) and call an autumn election and wipe out a lot of Labour seats. I suspect Chukka and Heidi would be smiling though, particularly if they can enter some pacts with LD.
I completely agree with you. JC's best chance of power is a PRE Brexit election where Labour offer REF2 and surf in on a tide of Remainer sentiment. Vote Labour. Stop Brexit. That wins.
I think they lose a post Brexit election, assuming the Tories pull themselves together.
The only upside I could see is that it would show Corbyn as someone capable of acting in the national interest rather than a disaster socialist, but I don't imagine that way of thinking predominating
The mysterious groups, which have names such as Mainstream Network and Britain’s Future, appear to be run independently by members of the public and give no hint that they are connected. But in reality they share an administrator who works for Crosby’s CTF Partners and have spent as much as £1m promoting sophisticated targeted adverts aimed at heaping pressure on individual MPs to vote for a hard Brexit.
Repeated questions have been raised about who is backing at least a dozen high-spending groups that have flooded MPs’ inboxes with calls to reject Theresa May’s deal, but until now they were thought to be independent entities...
Answers on a postcard to
Сенатский дворец Московский Кремль Москва 109012 Российская Федерация
Two SNP politicians are locked in an “abuse” battle on Twitter after making tit-for-tat complaints about each other in a row over transgender rights.
Gregor Murray, a councillor in Dundee, told Joan McAlpine, the chairwoman of Holyrood’s equalities committee, that she “lacks the necessary brain cells” to be an MSP.
Ms McAlpine, 57, has launched an internal party grievance against the councillor, who objects to being referred to with the pronoun “he” and claims to have been made to feel “unwelcome” in the SNP by the MSP.
Mr Murray, who is Scotland’s only transgender councillor, has sent a litany of foul-mouthed tweets to critics online. In one, he said: “No one is erasing lesbians. These are TERFs [trans-exclusionary radical feminists], literally stopping LGBTI progress, to protest something that only exists in their head. They’re making us feel unwelcome at Pride. Horrific. Utter c****.” Another said: “Where’s YOUR f****** solidarity, you transphobic b******?” A third said: “Get to f*** with your mediaeval views, you horrible bigot.”
They always say that, until it actually happens. See Clegg, Nick.
That was breaking a manifesto promise and polling eg from Deltapoll at the weekend shows Customs Union plus Deal is actually more popular net than revoke or No Deal, higher tuition fees was unpopular across the board
I thought May wanted indicative votes on Monday in case she and Jez couldnt come up with something. or does she not want them controlled by backbenchers.
It was a big moment as the backbenchers cannot put forward their indicative votes including a referendum or revoke. The look on the faces of the TIGS and SNP said it all as they see their dreams disappear
SNP dreams alive and well G, referendum still on the cards
I know you hope for it Malc, but after all this chaos not sure your fellow Scots will want to go down that route again in the near future.
G, I cannot see why they would not want to, UK is in serious trouble, Scotland has been traduced by the Tories, I just cannot see why anyone with any self respect would not want out of the UK. We are a 1000% more a vassal state than the nutjobs think England is in the EU. We are subservient to Westminster and any fool that thinks that is a good thing is not the full tattie. PS: SNP have a mandate to have one before the next election.
I suppose we really cannot be certain of anything these days
IDS today has said it is not right giving an extremist legitimacy i.e. Jeremy Corbyn by holding talks with him as it will end in disaster. I seem to remember IDS, when he was leader was given similar billing as an extremist yet Tony Blair invited IDS into discussions on the Iraq war.
It did not end well, when IDS got involved and helped to kill hundreds of thousands of people if not over a million!
IDS has extreme cruelty and indifference to the plight of his decisions on people. I am surprised he did not get a metal sign erected outside every job centre saying "Arbeit macht frei" when he was the DWP Sec. of State!
They always say that, until it actually happens. See Clegg, Nick.
That was breaking a manifesto promise and polling eg from Deltapoll at the weekend shows Customs Union plus Deal is actually more popular net than revoke or No Deal, higher tuition fees was unpopular across the board
Only because people don't have a clue what "Customs Union" entails. And in that, they are in the same boat as MPs, having no idea what will come out of first contact with the EU on the matter....
They always say that, until it actually happens. See Clegg, Nick.
That was breaking a manifesto promise and polling eg from Deltapoll at the weekend shows Customs Union plus Deal is actually more popular net than revoke or No Deal, higher tuition fees was unpopular across the board
I really do wonder if you ever form an opinon without an opinion poll
No polling in this fast moving environment is at all worth considering
I really don't buy into the idea that May is now desperate to get the Withdrawal Agreement passed. She just needs for it not to be obviously her fault that we head into the European elections.
If at the end of this we never leave, May will have pulled off a seemingly impossible political feat, which even if it was not her intention, will make her one of the most noteworthy PMs in history.
I think you're wrong on that - but it is possible.
And if so, yes - fails to deliver enormous national blunder - that would make her one of the great prime ministers.
Long extension looks nailed on, because it enables enough waverers to punt any decision further down the field. May is desperate for a deal to pass right now, and is clearly willing to pay a big price to do so, but there may not be enough willing to name their price for that.
Yes, she just HAS to get the Withdrawal Agreement passed. If she can do that, under whatever circumstances, she has a legacy. She will have delivered Brexit. If she fails she will have nothing, nothing at all, to show for her premiership. That must hurt deeply on a personal level, and is there any other level apart from the personal when all is said and done? Not really.
Corbyn is thus in an enormously powerful position right now, something which I am sure he realizes. The trouble is, Labour's Brexit policy is essentially the same as hers, therefore simply getting her to accept that would not be much of a victory. Given his leverage, it would hardly be a victory at all. It would be letting her off the hook.
So he will surely ask for more than that. Abolition of tuition fees and nationalizing the trains springs to mind. That would broaden the debate somewhat and would certainly put the cat amongst the pigeons!
Maybe he'll demand recognition of Palestine.
I don't see abolition of tuition fees doing much politically, as I am not sure there is much Tory vote to be won there .... but £20bn a year to a richer segment of the demgraphic group does sound quite champagne-Corbynista.
Renationalising the railways. Interesting - the wheels will eventually inevitably come off and it would be left hanging round Jezza's neck. But it would please his friends the extreme Trades Unions, of which the rail unions are a decent chunk.
They always say that, until it actually happens. See Clegg, Nick.
That was breaking a manifesto promise and polling eg from Deltapoll at the weekend shows Customs Union plus Deal is actually more popular net than revoke or No Deal, higher tuition fees was unpopular across the board
I really do wonder if you ever form an opinon without an opinion poll
No polling in this fast moving environment is at all worth considering
Indeed. And many polls are providing counterintuitive results (compared to each other, I mean).
Do you think he would contradict such a demand, now it is so public? Not that it would be unexpected, but it does rather make the talks obviously pointless, since that would mean compromise would only be from May, not from Corbyn
The only upside I could see is that it would show Corbyn as someone capable of acting in the national interest rather than a disaster socialist, but I don't imagine that way of thinking predominating
Good point, actually. Seeing him in that light might go some way to counteracting (Project) Fear of Jeremy.
And this shows that everyone who was banking on the use of 'confirmatory referendum' to not possibly mean Remain would be the oucome if the deal failed was barking up the wrong tree. A referendum is to achieve Remain, nothing more, nothing less.
OT,but would appreciate help. My partner has been offered a job as Polling Station Inspector on route 22 Northumberland on May 2nd. Does anyone know how many polling stations this might involve, and how we find out what route 22 is? See, she doesn't drive....but no one bothered to ask that when she applied....
And this shows that everyone who was banking on the use of 'confirmatory referendum' to not possibly mean Remain would be the oucome if the deal failed was barking up the wrong tree. A referendum is to achieve Remain, nothing more, nothing less.
Of course it is.
Really we should have Camerons deal as well as Remain up against whatever Theremy come up with, why should only Leave have their options split?
Imagine if the Commons ends up confirming or rejecting Brexit by one vote.
That vote being the MP for Peterborough.....
I think the MP for Peterborough should be removed from office. There is a issue involving a Tory MP that may produce a similar legal situation. I cannot remember which Tory MP or constituency they represent but it does not look good....
And this shows that everyone who was banking on the use of 'confirmatory referendum' to not possibly mean Remain would be the oucome if the deal failed was barking up the wrong tree. A referendum is to achieve Remain, nothing more, nothing less.
Of course it is.
Really we should have Camerons deal as well as Remain up against whatever Theremy come up with, why should only Leave have their options split?
I thought Brexiteers' argument (which, tbh, I agreed with) was that Cameron's deal changed nothing...
Imagine if the Commons ends up confirming or rejecting Brexit by one vote.
That vote being the MP for Peterborough.....
I think the MP for Peterborough should be removed from office. There is a issue involving a Tory MP that may produce a similar legal situation. I cannot remember which Tory MP or constituency they represent but it does not look good....
It was Chris Davies, Brecon and Radnorshire. Hopefully he's just waiting on his sentencing to resign.
For Onasanya we'll just have to wait on the recall petition, unfortunately that's not for a month so until then there's a lot of votes for her to be crucial on.
Imagine if the Commons ends up confirming or rejecting Brexit by one vote.
That vote being the MP for Peterborough.....
I think the MP for Peterborough should be removed from office. There is a issue involving a Tory MP that may produce a similar legal situation. I cannot remember which Tory MP or constituency they represent but it does not look good....
Isn't it the member for Brecon & Radnor? He was found guilty of expenses fraud, IIRC.
Imagine if the Commons ends up confirming or rejecting Brexit by one vote.
That vote being the MP for Peterborough.....
I think the MP for Peterborough should be removed from office. There is a issue involving a Tory MP that may produce a similar legal situation. I cannot remember which Tory MP or constituency they represent but it does not look good....
It was Chris Davies, Brecon and Radnorshire.
For Onasanya we'll just have to wait on the recall petition
Thanks, they are both marginals then! Might be interesting unless we have a GE before anything is instigated against the MP's.
And this shows that everyone who was banking on the use of 'confirmatory referendum' to not possibly mean Remain would be the oucome if the deal failed was barking up the wrong tree. A referendum is to achieve Remain, nothing more, nothing less.
Of course it is.
Really we should have Camerons deal as well as Remain up against whatever Theremy come up with, why should only Leave have their options split?
I thought Brexiteers' argument (which, tbh, I agreed with) was that Cameron's deal changed nothing...
Well I guess that's why no one was bothered last time, when it was "Camerons Deal" vs Leave, as very few, if any, Remainers were complaining that his deal was worse than the status quo.
But I don't really care! Offering Blanket Remain vs a version of Leave that lots of leavers don't like is about as crooked a heat as you can get
And this shows that everyone who was banking on the use of 'confirmatory referendum' to not possibly mean Remain would be the oucome if the deal failed was barking up the wrong tree. A referendum is to achieve Remain, nothing more, nothing less.
Of course. Remain is by far the most favourable outcome, as ought to be obvious to any thinking person by now. But it needs to be made legitimate.
Yep. Corbyn simply cannot afford to be the man who sinks the PV by reaching an agreement with May without it. At the least he needs to know it will go to the vote as an option or amendment on Monday. Otherwise he will be crucified by his members.
My guess is Labour eventually offers May a choice of either a full-fat Labour Brexit (customs union, no divergence ever from the EU on workers' rights, basically full single market membership, some token concessions on state aid, freedom of movement but with a different name) without a referendum, or a referendum between her deal and Remain.
I'm actually not sure which of those options May (or Tory MPs) would plump for if it came down to it. But the most likely scenario is still that this is just a short-term gimmick from May, and that by next week she'll be back to trying to blackmail MPs into supporting her deal.
And this shows that everyone who was banking on the use of 'confirmatory referendum' to not possibly mean Remain would be the oucome if the deal failed was barking up the wrong tree. A referendum is to achieve Remain, nothing more, nothing less.
Of course it is.
Really we should have Camerons deal as well as Remain up against whatever Theremy come up with, why should only Leave have their options split?
If there is to be another referendum (and I don't think one will be helpful), then we need to ensure that whatever is voted on is deliverable: and that means the EU has to agree with them in advance.
In particular, I wonder of Cameron's deal is still on the table - and the same goes for any other options that are mentioned. May's deal and no deal are the only two cast-iron ones (the former having been agreed with them, and the latter not requiring a deal), with 'remain' probably being okay with the EU - although the conditions under which we remain would need to be made clear to the voters.
Imagine if the Commons ends up confirming or rejecting Brexit by one vote.
That vote being the MP for Peterborough.....
I think the MP for Peterborough should be removed from office. There is a issue involving a Tory MP that may produce a similar legal situation. I cannot remember which Tory MP or constituency they represent but it does not look good....
Can't remember his name but it's Brecon and Radnor.
And this shows that everyone who was banking on the use of 'confirmatory referendum' to not possibly mean Remain would be the oucome if the deal failed was barking up the wrong tree. A referendum is to achieve Remain, nothing more, nothing less.
Of course. Remain is by far the most favourable outcome, as ought to be obvious to any thinking person by now. But it needs to be made legitimate.
Oh it was always clear that referendum was for remain. After all, it was being pushed long before people changes their minds. But some were getting stuck up on the phrasing, and ignoring the intent behind a referendum.
And this shows that everyone who was banking on the use of 'confirmatory referendum' to not possibly mean Remain would be the oucome if the deal failed was barking up the wrong tree. A referendum is to achieve Remain, nothing more, nothing less.
Of course. Remain is by far the most favourable outcome, as ought to be obvious to any thinking person by now. But it needs to be made legitimate.
Imagine if the Commons ends up confirming or rejecting Brexit by one vote.
That vote being the MP for Peterborough.....
I think the MP for Peterborough should be removed from office. There is a issue involving a Tory MP that may produce a similar legal situation. I cannot remember which Tory MP or constituency they represent but it does not look good....
Isn't it the member for Brecon & Radnor? He was found guilty of expenses fraud, IIRC.
And this shows that everyone who was banking on the use of 'confirmatory referendum' to not possibly mean Remain would be the oucome if the deal failed was barking up the wrong tree. A referendum is to achieve Remain, nothing more, nothing less.
Of course. Remain is by far the most favourable outcome, as ought to be obvious to any thinking person by now. But it needs to be made legitimate.
It will never be legitimate. And only Euroloons think it would be desirable.
Imagine if the Commons ends up confirming or rejecting Brexit by one vote.
That vote being the MP for Peterborough.....
I think the MP for Peterborough should be removed from office. There is a issue involving a Tory MP that may produce a similar legal situation. I cannot remember which Tory MP or constituency they represent but it does not look good....
It was Chris Davies, Brecon and Radnorshire.
For Onasanya we'll just have to wait on the recall petition
Thanks, they are both marginals then! Might be interesting unless we have a GE before anything is instigated against the MP's.
Brecon and Radnor is hardly marginal - 19% over the Yellows. That's not to say the Tories could or should take a by-election there lightly as the Liberal Democrats held it just four years ago.
I assume given by-election wins, even in safer seats than Newport West, are always stated to show the opposition's way is what the country wants, it will be used as a further pretext why Labour cannot compromise on the demand for a referendum.
And this shows that everyone who was banking on the use of 'confirmatory referendum' to not possibly mean Remain would be the oucome if the deal failed was barking up the wrong tree. A referendum is to achieve Remain, nothing more, nothing less.
Of course it is.
Really we should have Camerons deal as well as Remain up against whatever Theremy come up with, why should only Leave have their options split?
If there is to be another referendum (and I don't think one will be helpful), then we need to ensure that whatever is voted on is deliverable: and that means the EU has to agree with them in advance.
In particular, I wonder of Cameron's deal is still on the table - and the same goes for any other options that are mentioned. May's deal and no deal are the only two cast-iron ones (the former having been agreed with them, and the latter not requiring a deal), with 'remain' probably being okay with the EU - although the conditions under which we remain would need to be made clear to the voters.
I think there has to be equal options for each side. So if "Mays Deal" and "No Deal" are Leave options "Remain on pre 2016 terms" and "Camerons renegotiation" could be Remain's
If the country were split exactly 50/50 Leave/Remain, and it were "Mays Deal" vs "Remain" on the ballot, that would be a huge advantage for Remain
Imagine if the Commons ends up confirming or rejecting Brexit by one vote.
That vote being the MP for Peterborough.....
I think the MP for Peterborough should be removed from office. There is a issue involving a Tory MP that may produce a similar legal situation. I cannot remember which Tory MP or constituency they represent but it does not look good....
It was Chris Davies, Brecon and Radnorshire.
For Onasanya we'll just have to wait on the recall petition
Thanks, they are both marginals then! Might be interesting unless we have a GE before anything is instigated against the MP's.
Brecon and Radnor is hardly marginal - 19% over the Yellows. That's not to say the Tories could or should take a by-election there lightly as the Liberal Democrats held it just four years ago.
Would there be a possibility of Kirsty Williams (who got an excellent result there in 2016) standing in a Westminster by-election?
Imagine if the Commons ends up confirming or rejecting Brexit by one vote.
That vote being the MP for Peterborough.....
I think the MP for Peterborough should be removed from office. There is a issue involving a Tory MP that may produce a similar legal situation. I cannot remember which Tory MP or constituency they represent but it does not look good....
It was Chris Davies, Brecon and Radnorshire.
For Onasanya we'll just have to wait on the recall petition
Thanks, they are both marginals then! Might be interesting unless we have a GE before anything is instigated against the MP's.
Brecon and Radnor is hardly marginal - 19% over the Yellows. That's not to say the Tories could or should take a by-election there lightly as the Liberal Democrats held it just four years ago.
Would there be a possibility of Kirsty Williams (who got an excellent result there in 2016) standing in a Westminster by-election?
I would doubt it, given that would leave the Liberal Democrats without Assembly representation.
And this shows that everyone who was banking on the use of 'confirmatory referendum' to not possibly mean Remain would be the oucome if the deal failed was barking up the wrong tree. A referendum is to achieve Remain, nothing more, nothing less.
Of course. Remain is by far the most favourable outcome, as ought to be obvious to any thinking person by now. But it needs to be made legitimate.
It will never be legitimate. And only Euroloons think it would be desirable.
Putting up a watered-down Brexit against Remain would be a gerrymander.
And this shows that everyone who was banking on the use of 'confirmatory referendum' to not possibly mean Remain would be the oucome if the deal failed was barking up the wrong tree. A referendum is to achieve Remain, nothing more, nothing less.
Of course it is.
Really we should have Camerons deal as well as Remain up against whatever Theremy come up with, why should only Leave have their options split?
I thought Brexiteers' argument (which, tbh, I agreed with) was that Cameron's deal changed nothing...
Well I guess that's why no one was bothered last time, when it was "Camerons Deal" vs Leave, as very few, if any, Remainers were complaining that his deal was worse than the status quo.
But I don't really care! Offering Blanket Remain vs a version of Leave that lots of leavers don't like is about as crooked a heat as you can get
Well there you have it. There is only one version of Remain but there are countless versions of Leave, none of which command majority support.
The 2016 Referendum was effectively a vote between one Remain option and a multitude of flavours of Leave. When it comes to chosing a specific Leave version, as we must, it seems no Leavers are confident that their version will command a majority. Hence they run scared of a 2nd referendum.
And this shows that everyone who was banking on the use of 'confirmatory referendum' to not possibly mean Remain would be the oucome if the deal failed was barking up the wrong tree. A referendum is to achieve Remain, nothing more, nothing less.
Of course. Remain is by far the most favourable outcome, as ought to be obvious to any thinking person by now. But it needs to be made legitimate.
It will never be legitimate. And only Euroloons think it would be desirable.
Putting up a watered-down Brexit against Remain would be a gerrymander.
And this shows that everyone who was banking on the use of 'confirmatory referendum' to not possibly mean Remain would be the oucome if the deal failed was barking up the wrong tree. A referendum is to achieve Remain, nothing more, nothing less.
Of course. Remain is by far the most favourable outcome, as ought to be obvious to any thinking person by now. But it needs to be made legitimate.
It will never be legitimate. And only Euroloons think it would be desirable.
Putting up a watered-down Brexit against Remain would be a gerrymander.
Well put up a No Deal Brexit against Remain then - Remain would win easily.
What you cannot have now is a whatever-flavour-of-Leave-you-like versus Remain because only one version of Leave can actually be delivered.
Well fair play to him for being willing to stand up and defend the move, unlike certain others.
Has Cox, as one of the leading lawyers in the country, given an opinion on the corruption and criminality on the part of the Leave campaign, and the legitimacy of the Referendum? Or has he avoided this question?
And this shows that everyone who was banking on the use of 'confirmatory referendum' to not possibly mean Remain would be the oucome if the deal failed was barking up the wrong tree. A referendum is to achieve Remain, nothing more, nothing less.
Of course it is.
Really we should have Camerons deal as well as Remain up against whatever Theremy come up with, why should only Leave have their options split?
If there is to be another referendum (and I don't think one will be helpful), then we need to ensure that whatever is voted on is deliverable: and that means the EU has to agree with them in advance.
In particular, I wonder of Cameron's deal is still on the table - and the same goes for any other options that are mentioned. May's deal and no deal are the only two cast-iron ones (the former having been agreed with them, and the latter not requiring a deal), with 'remain' probably being okay with the EU - although the conditions under which we remain would need to be made clear to the voters.
I think there has to be equal options for each side. So if "Mays Deal" and "No Deal" are Leave options "Remain on pre 2016 terms" and "Camerons renegotiation" could be Remain's
If the country were split exactly 50/50 Leave/Remain, and it were "Mays Deal" vs "Remain" on the ballot, that would be a huge advantage for Remain
My mother once tried to smuggle two packets of biscuits into the United States, then unwisely tried to argue with the customs official when he confiscated them.
My mother once tried to smuggle two packets of biscuits into the United States, then unwisely tried to argue with the customs official when he confiscated them.
Have they let her out yet?
When the customs guy told her that if she wanted to keep the biscuits she would have to join them on the next flight back to England, she grudgingly bequeathed them to the DOHS.
And this shows that everyone who was banking on the use of 'confirmatory referendum' to not possibly mean Remain would be the oucome if the deal failed was barking up the wrong tree. A referendum is to achieve Remain, nothing more, nothing less.
Of course it is.
Really we should have Camerons deal as well as Remain up against whatever Theremy come up with, why should only Leave have their options split?
I thought Brexiteers' argument (which, tbh, I agreed with) was that Cameron's deal changed nothing...
Well I guess that's why no one was bothered last time, when it was "Camerons Deal" vs Leave, as very few, if any, Remainers were complaining that his deal was worse than the status quo.
But I don't really care! Offering Blanket Remain vs a version of Leave that lots of leavers don't like is about as crooked a heat as you can get
Well there you have it. There is only one version of Remain but there are countless versions of Leave, none of which command majority support.
The 2016 Referendum was effectively a vote between one Remain option and a multitude of flavours of Leave. When it comes to chosing a specific Leave version, as we must, it seems no Leavers are confident that their version will command a majority. Hence they run scared of a 2nd referendum.
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Gregor Murray, who resigned as children and families convener and the council’s equalities spokesperson last year following a series of expletive-laden online outbursts ...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/03/grassroots-facebook-brexit-ads-secretly-run-by-staff-of-lynton-crosby-firm
A series of hugely influential Facebook advertising campaigns that appear to be separate grassroots movements for a no-deal Brexit are secretly overseen by employees of Sir Lynton Crosby’s lobbying company and a former adviser to Boris Johnson, documents seen by the Guardian reveal.
The mysterious groups, which have names such as Mainstream Network and Britain’s Future, appear to be run independently by members of the public and give no hint that they are connected. But in reality they share an administrator who works for Crosby’s CTF Partners and have spent as much as £1m promoting sophisticated targeted adverts aimed at heaping pressure on individual MPs to vote for a hard Brexit.
Repeated questions have been raised about who is backing at least a dozen high-spending groups that have flooded MPs’ inboxes with calls to reject Theresa May’s deal, but until now they were thought to be independent entities...
PS: SNP have a mandate to have one before the next election.
54% say MPs should be more willing to compromise on Brexit options, just 18% say MPs should stick rigidly to their first choice Brexit option
https://yougov.co.uk/opi/myfeed/
If they force it now, and the government does not fall, they do not get a GE until AFTER the EU matter is settled.
That means bye bye centrist ardent remainer votes, and IMO bye bye Downing St.
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IDS today has said it is not right giving an extremist legitimacy i.e. Jeremy Corbyn by holding talks with him as it will end in disaster. I seem to remember IDS, when he was leader was given similar billing as an extremist yet Tony Blair invited IDS into discussions on the Iraq war.
It did not end well, when IDS got involved and helped to kill hundreds of thousands of people if not over a million!
IDS has extreme cruelty and indifference to the plight of his decisions on people. I am surprised he did not get a metal sign erected outside every job centre saying "Arbeit macht frei" when he was the DWP Sec. of State!
IDS is a nutter!
No polling in this fast moving environment is at all worth considering
And if so, yes - fails to deliver enormous national blunder - that would make her one of the great prime ministers.
God alone knows how that would turn out. Could very well swing on the votes of the DUP.
Renationalising the railways. Interesting - the wheels will eventually inevitably come off and it would be left hanging round Jezza's neck. But it would please his friends the extreme Trades Unions, of which the rail unions are a decent chunk.
Root and branch review of Universal Credit?
Give everyone a free Owl.
Does anyone know how many polling stations this might involve, and how we find out what route 22 is?
See, she doesn't drive....but no one bothered to ask that when she applied....
Really we should have Camerons deal as well as Remain up against whatever Theremy come up with, why should only Leave have their options split?
But they want other politicians to compromise, not *their* politicians.
For Onasanya we'll just have to wait on the recall petition, unfortunately that's not for a month so until then there's a lot of votes for her to be crucial on.
https://newsthump.com/2019/04/03/incompetent-leader-hopeful-alliance-with-rubbish-opposition-will-secure-support-for-crap-deal-that-everyone-hates/
But I don't really care! Offering Blanket Remain vs a version of Leave that lots of leavers don't like is about as crooked a heat as you can get
I'm actually not sure which of those options May (or Tory MPs) would plump for if it came down to it. But the most likely scenario is still that this is just a short-term gimmick from May, and that by next week she'll be back to trying to blackmail MPs into supporting her deal.
In particular, I wonder of Cameron's deal is still on the table - and the same goes for any other options that are mentioned. May's deal and no deal are the only two cast-iron ones (the former having been agreed with them, and the latter not requiring a deal), with 'remain' probably being okay with the EU - although the conditions under which we remain would need to be made clear to the voters.
He wasn't found guilty, he pleaded guilty.
If the country were split exactly 50/50 Leave/Remain, and it were "Mays Deal" vs "Remain" on the ballot, that would be a huge advantage for Remain
The 2016 Referendum was effectively a vote between one Remain option and a multitude of flavours of Leave. When it comes to chosing a specific Leave version, as we must, it seems no Leavers are confident that their version will command a majority. Hence they run scared of a 2nd referendum.
What you cannot have now is a whatever-flavour-of-Leave-you-like versus Remain because only one version of Leave can actually be delivered.