DUP will not support any of the amendments tonight
No deal looms larger minute by minute
No, no, no, no!
Sadly, unless you can explain how it is stopped and the legislation needed to pass the HOC and HOL and gain Royal assent by a week on friday !!!
And I am totally against no deal but it is very real tonight
You are lagging behind the news BigG, the Attorney General has confirmed today that if Common Market 2.0 or a Customs Union get a majority tonight and Letwin's Bill to make it law passes on Wednesday under the principal of Parliamentary Sovereignty under our constitution the Cabinet would be obliged to implement it and civil servants would have to implement it and submit it as the new British negotiating strategy the EU requires by April 12th.
BINO not No Deal would become the legal default
I refer you to my post at 7.41. Stop spreading bollocks.
Is it exactly the hearsay cabinet wants out there ahead of this voting?
Calling you out on this one HY.
It was what he told the Cabinet today according to multiple sources who spoke to the Standard
We had exactly the same hearsay same time last indicative vote day. In between we had ministers and PM appealing to a different crowd with, never heard such thing we can ignore it if we want to.
DUP will not support any of the amendments tonight
No deal looms larger minute by minute
No, no, no, no!
Sadly, unless you can explain how it is stopped and the legislation needed to pass the HOC and HOL and gain Royal assent by a week on friday !!!
And I am totally against no deal but it is very real tonight
You are lagging behind the news BigG, the Attorney General has confirmed today to the Cabinet that if Common Market 2.0 or a Customs Union get a majority tonight and Letwin's Bill to make it law passes on Wednesday under the principal of Parliamentary Sovereignty under our constitution the Cabinet would be obliged to implement it and civil servants would have to implement it and submit it as the new British negotiating strategy the EU requires by April 12th.
BINO not No Deal would become the legal default
No it would not. Because if the EU rejects it then we are back with No Deal obliged to revoke Article 50.
More importantly, given the EU won't reopen the WA it would have no force in law. The next Government could simply reverse it.
DUP will not support any of the amendments tonight
No deal looms larger minute by minute
No, no, no, no!
Sadly, unless you can explain how it is stopped and the legislation needed to pass the HOC and HOL and gain Royal assent by a week on friday !!!
And I am totally against no deal but it is very real tonight
You are lagging behind the news BigG, the Attorney General has confirmed today to the Cabinet that if Common Market 2.0 or a Customs Union get a majority tonight and Letwin's Bill to make it law passes on Wednesday under the principal of Parliamentary Sovereignty under our constitution the Cabinet would be obliged to implement it and civil servants would have to implement it and submit it as the new British negotiating strategy the EU requires by April 12th.
BINO not No Deal would become the legal default
Well, if it becomes law then of course it does.
Effectively Letwin would be the one commanding a majority of the House and de facto PM for that one issue.
It’s not beyond the realms of possibility that he becomes de jure PM as well if TM resigns and MPs make clear he’s the one that commands their confidence and HMQ might be obliged to send for him.
He could then appoint whoever he liked to his cabinet.
Not impossible no, the ERG may have made a huge own goal by rejecting May's Deal
No, it is the AG going entirely with the law and Constitution that Parliament is supreme which he would confirm at the despatch box either tomorrow or Wednesday.
The executive cannot ignore Parliament or the indicative vote winner by law if Letwin's Bill passes on Wednesday, if it does BINO becomes the legal default the executive and civil service will have to implement and No Deal would be dead.
The executive cannot ignore Parliament, the AG and the Speaker on the constitution. In any case given May has said she will not enable No Deal unless the Commons votes for it we will almost certainly be contesting the EU elections and in for a lengthy extension soon enough unless a sudden surge for her Deal
I do not know if the ES is quoting Cox accurately or not. But on a basic point in your comment you are wrong.
The Executive can indeed ignore Parliament on matters of Royal Prerogative, and Letwin taking over Parliament for these votes does not change that basic fact.
If - and of course it is the big question to which I do not know the answer at the moment - the negotiations are covered by Royal Prerogative then Parliament simply has no power to force the issue in a particular direction short of VoNC the Government.
DUP will not support any of the amendments tonight
No deal looms larger minute by minute
No, no, no, no!
Sadly, unless you can explain how it is stopped and the legislation needed to pass the HOC and HOL and gain Royal assent by a week on friday !!!
And I am totally against no deal but it is very real tonight
You are lagging behind the news BigG, the Attorney General has confirmed today that if Common Market 2.0 or a Customs Union get a majority tonight and Letwin's Bill to make it law passes on Wednesday under the principal of Parliamentary Sovereignty under our constitution the Cabinet would be obliged to implement it and civil servants would have to implement it and submit it as the new British negotiating strategy the EU requires by April 12th.
BINO not No Deal would become the legal default
I refer you to my post at 7.41. Stop spreading bollocks.
Is it exactly the hearsay cabinet wants out there ahead of this voting?
Calling you out on this one HY.
It was what he told the Cabinet today according to multiple sources who spoke to the Standard
We had exactly the same hearsay same time last indicative vote day. In between we had ministers and PM appealing to a different crowd with, never heard such thing we can ignore it if we want to.
I look like six dots, I do not look like a mug.
Nope, if Letwin's Bill passes through Parliament on Wednesday and Thursday whatever won the indicative votes is the new default for Brexit. Cox as Attorney General was entirely accurate in interpreting our constitution and the principle of parliamentary sovereignty
I'm guessing the 170 Tory MPs who support No Deal will all vote No to each of the options, along with the 10 DUP MPs. There might be around 5 Labour MPs who will also do so.
He said he didn’t realise it was “quite as significant” as it was.
That’s a relative statement rather than the absolute one you report
I don't think there is a contradiction. But in any case it hardly helps his case, does it? Not quite as significant as what, exactly? Our exports from the port of Liverpool perhaps? Or Maryport? For God's sake, the first thing a Brexit secretary should have done is got a briefing on our trade and what routes it uses. He might even have thought to get such a briefing before he became a Brexiteer and started campaigning for us to leave.
In the context it sounded like (made up numbers for illustration) he thought it was 70% of trade and it turned out to be 80%
And it was a reference to before being appointed vs after it
Goodness knows that’s there’s enough to criticise the government for without making stuff up
I am not making anything up. He did not bother to properly brief himself on something he apparently cares deeply about. That makes him both stupid and frivolous. Not up to the job, as one C Attlee said of a minister he sacked.
There comes a point when you have to give up arguing with Charles when he is defending the indefensible.
I’m not defending Raab. I’m arguing that what he said was wilfully misrepresented by his political opponents. Unfortunately @Cyclefree has been taken in by it.
The issue is Raab should have done his homework before backing Brexit.
'I hadn’t quite understood the full extent of this, but if you look at the UK and look at how we trade in goods, we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing.'
I mean anyone else shocked that our most important trading route with the EU is the shortest distance between the UK and mainland Europe?
Your last paragraph is a misinterpretation
Of course he knows it is the most important trading route. He just “hadn’t quite understood the full extent”
Unhuh. Didn’t you also defend Grayling’s ferry ‘deal’ ?
No. No you didn’t? OH CHARLES!
No, I didn’t
I defend people against misrepresentation of the truth (in the case of the ferry deal the allegation that corruption was involved)
DUP will not support any of the amendments tonight
No deal looms larger minute by minute
No, no, no, no!
Sadly, unless you can explain how it is stopped and the legislation needed to pass the HOC and HOL and gain Royal assent by a week on friday !!!
And I am totally against no deal but it is very real tonight
You are lagging behind the news BigG, the Attorney General has confirmed today to the Cabinet that if Common Market 2.0 or a Customs Union get a majority tonight and Letwin's Bill to make it law passes on Wednesday under the principal of Parliamentary Sovereignty under our constitution the Cabinet would be obliged to implement it and civil servants would have to implement it and submit it as the new British negotiating strategy the EU requires by April 12th.
BINO not No Deal would become the legal default
No it would not. Because if the EU rejects it then we are back with No Deal obliged to revoke Article 50.
More importantly, given the EU won't reopen the WA it would have no force in law. The next Government could simply reverse it.
Corrected that for you. You're welcome.
Wrong. We are not obliged to revoke. As you may well unfortunately find out in a couple of weeks.
DUP will not support any of the amendments tonight
No deal looms larger minute by minute
No, no, no, no!
Sadly, unless you can explain how it is stopped and the legislation needed to pass the HOC and HOL and gain Royal assent by a week on friday !!!
And I am totally against no deal but it is very real tonight
You are lagging behind the news BigG, the Attorney General has confirmed today that if Common Market 2.0 or a Customs Union get a majority tonight and Letwin's Bill to make it law passes on Wednesday under the principal of Parliamentary Sovereignty under our constitution the Cabinet would be obliged to implement it and civil servants would have to implement it and submit it as the new British negotiating strategy the EU requires by April 12th.
BINO not No Deal would become the legal default
I refer you to my post at 7.41. Stop spreading bollocks.
Is it exactly the hearsay cabinet wants out there ahead of this voting?
Calling you out on this one HY.
It was what he told the Cabinet today according to multiple sources who spoke to the Standard
We had exactly the same hearsay same time last indicative vote day. In between we had ministers and PM appealing to a different crowd with, never heard such thing we can ignore it if we want to.
I look like six dots, I do not look like a mug.
Nope, if Letwin's Bill passes through Parliament on Wednesday and Thursday whatever won the indicative votes is the new default for Brexit. Cox as Attorney General was entirely accurate in interpreting our constitution and the principle of parliamentary sovereignty
No, it is the AG going entirely with the law and Constitution that Parliament is supreme which he would confirm at the despatch box either tomorrow or Wednesday.
The executive cannot ignore Parliament or the indicative vote winner by law if Letwin's Bill passes on Wednesday, if it does BINO becomes the legal default the executive and civil service will have to implement and No Deal would be dead.
The executive cannot ignore Parliament, the AG and the Speaker on the constitution. In any case given May has said she will not enable No Deal unless the Commons votes for it we will almost certainly be contesting the EU elections and in for a lengthy extension soon enough unless a sudden surge for her Deal
I do not know if the ES is quoting Cox accurately or not. But on a basic point in your comment you are wrong.
The Executive can indeed ignore Parliament on matters of Royal Prerogative, and Letwin taking over Parliament for these votes does not change that basic fact.
If - and of course it is the big question to which I do not know the answer at the moment - the negotiations are covered by Royal Prerogative then Parliament simply has no power to force the issue in a particular direction short of VoNC the Government.
Based on the AG's advice the Government has not used the royal prerogative to conduct the negotiations and in any case I cannot see the Queen allowing her prerogative to be used to try and override the will of Parliament and her advisers would make that clear to May
DUP will not support any of the amendments tonight
No deal looms larger minute by minute
No, no, no, no!
Sadly, unless you can explain how it is stopped and the legislation needed to pass the HOC and HOL and gain Royal assent by a week on friday !!!
And I am totally against no deal but it is very real tonight
You are lagging behind the news BigG, the Attorney General has confirmed today that if Common Market 2.0 or a Customs Union get a majority tonight and Letwin's Bill to make it law passes on Wednesday under the principal of Parliamentary Sovereignty under our constitution the Cabinet would be obliged to implement it and civil servants would have to implement it and submit it as the new British negotiating strategy the EU requires by April 12th.
BINO not No Deal would become the legal default
I refer you to my post at 7.41. Stop spreading bollocks.
Is it exactly the hearsay cabinet wants out there ahead of this voting?
Calling you out on this one HY.
It was what he told the Cabinet today according to multiple sources who spoke to the Standard
We had exactly the same hearsay same time last indicative vote day. In between we had ministers and PM appealing to a different crowd with, never heard such thing we can ignore it if we want to.
I look like six dots, I do not look like a mug.
Nope, if Letwin's Bill passes through Parliament on Wednesday and Thursday whatever won the indicative votes is the new default for Brexit. Cox as Attorney General was entirely accurate in interpreting our constitution and the principle of parliamentary sovereignty
Does that represent your legal opinion as AG?
The funny thing is that HYUIFD has made so many statements on here about what MUST happen over the last few months and just about every one of them has turned out to be wrong. No reason he should change that streak now.
DUP will not support any of the amendments tonight
No deal looms larger minute by minute
No, no, no, no!
Sadly, unless you can explain how it is stopped and the legislation needed to pass the HOC and HOL and gain Royal assent by a week on friday !!!
And I am totally against no deal but it is very real tonight
You are lagging behind the news BigG, the Attorney General has confirmed today that if Common Market 2.0 or a Customs Union get a majority tonight and Letwin's Bill to make it law passes on Wednesday under the principal of Parliamentary Sovereignty under our constitution the Cabinet would be obliged to implement it and civil servants would have to implement it and submit it as the new British negotiating strategy the EU requires by April 12th.
BINO not No Deal would become the legal default
I refer you to my post at 7.41. Stop spreading bollocks.
Is it exactly the hearsay cabinet wants out there ahead of this voting?
Calling you out on this one HY.
It was what he told the Cabinet today according to multiple sources who spoke to the Standard
We had exactly the same hearsay same time last indicative vote day. In between we had ministers and PM appealing to a different crowd with, never heard such thing we can ignore it if we want to.
I look like six dots, I do not look like a mug.
Nope, if Letwin's Bill passes through Parliament on Wednesday and Thursday whatever won the indicative votes is the new default for Brexit. Cox as Attorney General was entirely accurate in interpreting our constitution and the principle of parliamentary sovereignty
Does that represent your legal opinion as AG?
The Attorney General's given to the Cabinet today according to sources
DUP will not support any of the amendments tonight
No deal looms larger minute by minute
No, no, no, no!
Sadly, unless you can explain how it is stopped and the legislation needed to pass the HOC and HOL and gain Royal assent by a week on friday !!!
And I am totally against no deal but it is very real tonight
You are lagging behind the news BigG, the Attorney General has confirmed today that if Common Market 2.0 or a Customs Union get a majority tonight and Letwin's Bill to make it law passes on Wednesday under the principal of Parliamentary Sovereignty under our constitution the Cabinet would be obliged to implement it and civil servants would have to implement it and submit it as the new British negotiating strategy the EU requires by April 12th.
BINO not No Deal would become the legal default
I refer you to my post at 7.41. Stop spreading bollocks.
Is it exactly the hearsay cabinet wants out there ahead of this voting?
Calling you out on this one HY.
It was what he told the Cabinet today according to multiple sources who spoke to the Standard
We had exactly the same hearsay same time last indicative vote day. In between we had ministers and PM appealing to a different crowd with, never heard such thing we can ignore it if we want to.
I look like six dots, I do not look like a mug.
Nope, if Letwin's Bill passes through Parliament on Wednesday and Thursday whatever won the indicative votes is the new default for Brexit. Cox as Attorney General was entirely accurate in interpreting our constitution and the principle of parliamentary sovereignty
Does that represent your legal opinion as AG?
The funny thing is that HYUIFD has made so many statements on here about what MUST happen over the last few months and just about every one of them has turned out to be wrong. No reason he should change that streak now.
We just need to puzzle out the one thing he hasn't predicted?
The government will be hoping a second referendum isn't the option that gets the most votes.
This feels like it could head to a BINO v. Remain 2nd referendum to me.
Would the EU party?
Of course they would.
This is why I wonder if we could indeed see some senior Tories conceding to a referendum on May's Deal vs Remain before long -- because that would be the only way of even possibly getting what they consider a "proper" Brexit, since MPs are never going to unilaterally approve it.
DUP will not support any of the amendments tonight
No deal looms larger minute by minute
No, no, no, no!
Sadly, unless you can explain how it is stopped and the legislation needed to pass the HOC and HOL and gain Royal assent by a week on friday !!!
And I am totally against no deal but it is very real tonight
You are lagging behind the news BigG, the Attorney General has confirmed today that if Common Market 2.0 or a Customs Union get a majority tonight and Letwin's Bill to make it law passes on Wednesday under the principal of Parliamentary Sovereignty under our constitution the Cabinet would be obliged to implement it and civil servants would have to implement it and submit it as the new British negotiating strategy the EU requires by April 12th.
BINO not No Deal would become the legal default
I refer you to my post at 7.41. Stop spreading bollocks.
Is it exactly the hearsay cabinet wants out there ahead of this voting?
Calling you out on this one HY.
It was what he told the Cabinet today according to multiple sources who spoke to the Standard
We had exactly the same hearsay same time last indicative vote day. In between we had ministers and PM appealing to a different crowd with, never heard such thing we can ignore it if we want to.
I look like six dots, I do not look like a mug.
Nope, if Letwin's Bill passes through Parliament on Wednesday and Thursday whatever won the indicative votes is the new default for Brexit. Cox as Attorney General was entirely accurate in interpreting our constitution and the principle of parliamentary sovereignty
Does that represent your legal opinion as AG?
The Attorney General's given to the Cabinet today according to sources
DUP will not support any of the amendments tonight
No deal looms larger minute by minute
No, no, no, no!
Sadly, unless you can explain how it is stopped and the legislation needed to pass the HOC and HOL and gain Royal assent by a week on friday !!!
And I am totally against no deal but it is very real tonight
You are lagging behind the news BigG, the Attorney General has confirmed today that if Common Market 2.0 or a Customs Union get a majority tonight and Letwin's Bill to make it law passes on Wednesday under the principal of Parliamentary Sovereignty under our constitution the Cabinet would be obliged to implement it and civil servants would have to implement it and submit it as the new British negotiating strategy the EU requires by April 12th.
BINO not No Deal would become the legal default
I refer you to my post at 7.41. Stop spreading bollocks.
Is it exactly the hearsay cabinet wants out there ahead of this voting?
Calling you out on this one HY.
It was what he told the Cabinet today according to multiple sources who spoke to the Standard
We had exactly the same hearsay same time last indicative vote day. In between we had ministers and PM appealing to a different crowd with, never heard such thing we can ignore it if we want to.
I look like six dots, I do not look like a mug.
Nope, if Letwin's Bill passes through Parliament on Wednesday and Thursday whatever won the indicative votes is the new default for Brexit. Cox as Attorney General was entirely accurate in interpreting our constitution and the principle of parliamentary sovereignty
Does that represent your legal opinion as AG?
The funny thing is that HYUIFD has made so many statements on here about what MUST happen over the last few months and just about every one of them has turned out to be wrong. No reason he should change that streak now.
We just need to puzzle out the one thing he hasn't predicred?
I didn't realise the public gallery was that exposed from the floor of the Commons.
When I used to go there in the early noughties there was no glass.
I got a conspiratorial grin at me up in the gallery from a Tory MP when I guffawed audibly down into the chamber when a Lib Dem MP gave way to him during a remarkably tedious backbench speech and he deftly took the piss out of him.
The tigs, or suckers or whatever they are these days are pure remainiacs, vote for no option with traces of brexit in it. Lib Dem’s on the other hand voting for forms of brexit tonight? Out of the political element, but accepting all the economic rules we are in without being able to shape them?
No, it is the AG going entirely with the law and Constitution that Parliament is supreme which he would confirm at the despatch box either tomorrow or Wednesday.
The executive cannot ignore Parliament or the indicative vote winner by law if Letwin's Bill passes on Wednesday, if it does BINO becomes the legal default the executive and civil service will have to implement and No Deal would be dead.
The executive cannot ignore Parliament, the AG and the Speaker on the constitution. In any case given May has said she will not enable No Deal unless the Commons votes for it we will almost certainly be contesting the EU elections and in for a lengthy extension soon enough unless a sudden surge for her Deal
I do not know if the ES is quoting Cox accurately or not. But on a basic point in your comment you are wrong.
The Executive can indeed ignore Parliament on matters of Royal Prerogative, and Letwin taking over Parliament for these votes does not change that basic fact.
If - and of course it is the big question to which I do not know the answer at the moment - the negotiations are covered by Royal Prerogative then Parliament simply has no power to force the issue in a particular direction short of VoNC the Government.
Based on the AG's advice the Government has not used the royal prerogative to conduct the negotiations and in any case I cannot see the Queen allowing her prerogative to be used to try and override the will of Parliament and her advisers would make that clear to May
You do not know any of that. All you have is anonymous briefings via a paper which is known for its opposition to Brexit and which is saying things you want to be true.
You have not seen the AG's advice and nor have I. And like so many other occasions in the past when you have made definitive statements on this process which turned out to be rubbish you are in danger of making a fool of yourself once again.
Nor do you apparently understand Royal Prerogative. It has nothing to do with the Queen allowing anything. It is a constitutional arrangement whereby certain functions of Government are reserved for the Executive.
I really hope Common Market 2.0 is agreed. It's clearly the best compromise that honours the referendum result but also conserves the economy. I'd prefer remain but I can live with it. It's really where Britain should have been all along.
I don't see how it can be said to honour the referendum result when it doesn't deliver on the key things the Leave campaign were presenting to people.
Leave presented a moon on the stick. And many people voted leave but actually don't mind Freedom of Labour - I'm one, I'm sure Richard Tyndall is another....
Indeed. There are rather a lot of us on here. Robert S is another who immediately springs to mind.
Indeed. Lots of mad things were said during the referendum campaign. A Norway style Brexit (as promoted by Richard since Day One) respects the result of the referendum, offers economic security and will almost certainly lead to a ‘relief bounce’ in the economy.
I am with @RoyalBlue - time to lay down the swords and compromise.
If it comes to a final choice between Common Market 2.0 /Customs Union or May's deal, how would the likes of Clarke and Boles be likely to vote given that hitherto both have supported May on the MV votes?
I didn't realise the public gallery was that exposed from the floor of the Commons.
When I used to go there in the early noughties there was no glass.
I got a conspiratorial grin at me up in the gallery from a Tory MP when I guffawed audibly down into the chamber when a Lib Dem MP gave way to him during a remarkably tedious backbench speech and he deftly took the piss out of him.
Glass was added in 2004 after fathers for justice launched their flour bomb attack on Blair.
I really hope Common Market 2.0 is agreed. It's clearly the best compromise that honours the referendum result but also conserves the economy. I'd prefer remain but I can live with it. It's really where Britain should have been all along.
I'd also remind everyone prior to his advice on the revised Withdrawal Agreement several media organisations said Geoffrey Cox's legal advice to the PM would be very favourable to her.
I didn't realise the public gallery was that exposed from the floor of the Commons.
When I used to go there in the early noughties there was no glass.
I got a conspiratorial grin at me up in the gallery from a Tory MP when I guffawed audibly down into the chamber when a Lib Dem MP gave way to him during a remarkably tedious backbench speech and he deftly took the piss out of him.
Didn't they put the glass in after someone dumped flour or horse manure or something into the chamber?
Highest level of stockpiling by UK companies in history by any G7 economy .
Utterly pathetic and tragic that it’s come to this .
Agreed. Our political class have failed us utterly.
On the positive side it did boost production. In the EZ they had the lowest manufacturing PMI since April 2013 and there is a yield inversion in the US which may well be indicative of a recession in the next year or so. Our politics is truly crap but in economic terms we remain a haven of relative stability.
I didn't realise the public gallery was that exposed from the floor of the Commons.
When I used to go there in the early noughties there was no glass.
I got a conspiratorial grin at me up in the gallery from a Tory MP when I guffawed audibly down into the chamber when a Lib Dem MP gave way to him during a remarkably tedious backbench speech and he deftly took the piss out of him.
Didn't they put the glass in after someone dumped flour or horse manure or something into the chamber?
Horse shit is of considerably more use than many of the members of the commons.
"Nick Clegg says Facebook is NOT responsible for things posted on the site and is being asked to self-regulate in a way 'no private company should be expected to do'"
I really hope Common Market 2.0 is agreed. It's clearly the best compromise that honours the referendum result but also conserves the economy. I'd prefer remain but I can live with it. It's really where Britain should have been all along.
I don't see how it can be said to honour the referendum result when it doesn't deliver on the key things the Leave campaign were presenting to people.
Leave presented a moon on the stick. And many people voted leave but actually don't mind Freedom of Labour - I'm one, I'm sure Richard Tyndall is another....
Indeed. There are rather a lot of us on here. Robert S is another who immediately springs to mind.
Indeed. Lots of mad things were said during the referendum campaign. A Norway style Brexit (as promoted by Richard since Day One) respects the result of the referendum, offers economic security and will almost certainly lead to a ‘relief bounce’ in the economy.
I am with @RoyalBlue - time to lay down the swords and compromise.
Are we allowed to use the word vassalage without being accused of promoting violence?
To put it more technically, we would move to keeping the EU rules, simply giving up political influence over them. That is what you are suggesting?
At some point 99% of the population will say, this is silly, if we are having those rules we might as well have the political influence over them. And we’ll be back to square one?
"Nick Clegg says Facebook is NOT responsible for things posted on the site and is being asked to self-regulate in a way 'no private company should be expected to do'"
I really hope Common Market 2.0 is agreed. It's clearly the best compromise that honours the referendum result but also conserves the economy. I'd prefer remain but I can live with it. It's really where Britain should have been all along.
👍
I am quite the federalist and my ideal outcome would be for the UK to break up and England, Scotland and Wales become separate members of the EU and in the Euro and Schengen along with a united Ireland. But I am happy to concede Norway+ as an acceptable compromise for the UK with those who don't support a federal Europe
Highest level of stockpiling by UK companies in history by any G7 economy .
Utterly pathetic and tragic that it’s come to this .
Agreed. Our political class have failed us utterly.
On the positive side it did boost production. In the EZ they had the lowest manufacturing PMI since April 2013 and there is a yield inversion in the US which may well be indicative of a recession in the next year or so. Our politics is truly crap but in economic terms we remain a haven of relative stability.
Even without stock building, the manufacturing PMI would have been positive.
If it comes to a final choice between Common Market 2.0 /Customs Union or May's deal, how would the likes of Clarke and Boles be likely to vote given that hitherto both have supported May on the MV votes?
I think that Clarke's CU vote is intended to be added to the WA (Edit: apologies I meant added to the PD attached to the WA)
So in that case there is no real conflict as such. Clarke and Boles would almost certainly vote for the CU option as they would not be voting against the WA.
I really hope Common Market 2.0 is agreed. It's clearly the best compromise that honours the referendum result but also conserves the economy. I'd prefer remain but I can live with it. It's really where Britain should have been all along.
I don't see how it can be said to honour the referendum result when it doesn't deliver on the key things the Leave campaign were presenting to people.
Leave presented a moon on the stick. And many people voted leave but actually don't mind Freedom of Labour - I'm one, I'm sure Richard Tyndall is another....
Indeed. There are rather a lot of us on here. Robert S is another who immediately springs to mind.
Indeed. Lots of mad things were said during the referendum campaign. A Norway style Brexit (as promoted by Richard since Day One) respects the result of the referendum, offers economic security and will almost certainly lead to a ‘relief bounce’ in the economy.
I am with @RoyalBlue - time to lay down the swords and compromise.
Are we allowed to use the word vassalage without being accused of promoting violence?
To put it more technically, we would move to keeping the EU rules, simply giving up political influence over them. That is what you are suggesting?
At some point 99% of the population will say, this is silly, if we are having those rules we might as well have the political influence over them. And we’ll be back to square one?
That is certainly not what the Norway option means at all.
If it comes to a final choice between Common Market 2.0 /Customs Union or May's deal, how would the likes of Clarke and Boles be likely to vote given that hitherto both have supported May on the MV votes?
The choice could not be framed in that way. The HoC votes for or against a proposal, to make a forced choice between two proposals would require a procedural motion to be passed to put such a choice before the House and such a procedural motion is unlikely to be carried.
Maybe they haven't, but if that's what they want then that is that as far as I am concerned. We asked parliament to come up with something, and they would be within their rights to choose that.
It would be kind of funny to see two options the DUP both hate going up against each other in a final runoff. See these great believers in the Union abstain on a matter of criticial importance because the rest of the country would not give them what they wanted.
I'd also remind everyone prior to his advice on the revised Withdrawal Agreement several media organisations said Geoffrey Cox's legal advice to the PM would be very favourable to her.
It was not.
Yes, Cox advices as a lawyer on the law regardless of the politics
The tigs, or suckers or whatever they are these days are pure remainiacs, vote for no option with traces of brexit in it. Lib Dem’s on the other hand voting for forms of brexit tonight? Out of the political element, but accepting all the economic rules we are in without being able to shape them?
Accepting the rules without being able to shape them is simply accepting the referendum result. They didn't vote for it. You would be better targeting your complaint at Leavers.
Maybe they haven't, but if that's what they want then that is that as far as I am concerned. We asked parliament to come up with something, and they would be within their rights to choose that.
It would be kind of funny to see two options the DUP both hate going up against each other in a final runoff. See these great believers in the Union abstain on a matter of criticial importance because the rest of the country would not give them what they wanted.
According to David Smith of STimes, who might actually know something about CUs, this is crap. It does not set trade policy. It means some stuff has to come and go at certain external tariffs, but we can do trade deals within those parameters and crucially are free on services stuff.
I really hope Common Market 2.0 is agreed. It's clearly the best compromise that honours the referendum result but also conserves the economy. I'd prefer remain but I can live with it. It's really where Britain should have been all along.
I don't see how it can be said to honour the referendum result when it doesn't deliver on the key things the Leave campaign were presenting to people.
Leave presented a moon on the stick. And many people voted leave but actually don't mind Freedom of Labour - I'm one, I'm sure Richard Tyndall is another....
Indeed. There are rather a lot of us on here. Robert S is another who immediately springs to mind.
Indeed. Lots of mad things were said during the referendum campaign. A Norway style Brexit (as promoted by Richard since Day One) respects the result of the referendum, offers economic security and will almost certainly lead to a ‘relief bounce’ in the economy.
I am with @RoyalBlue - time to lay down the swords and compromise.
Are we allowed to use the word vassalage without being accused of promoting violence?
To put it more technically, we would move to keeping the EU rules, simply giving up political influence over them. That is what you are suggesting?
At some point 99% of the population will say, this is silly, if we are having those rules we might as well have the political influence over them. And we’ll be back to square one?
That is certainly not what the Norway option means at all.
Stats don’t reveal truth when there are two different populations, climates, cultures, economies. Norway certainly has a bit of oil revenue to sweeten public spending and hence their populace’s perceptions. Yet each Norwegian household still pay almost as much into the EU as UK does now? That’s a funny definition of out?
How does it take TWO HOURS to count 640 odd ballot papers ?!?
Well they have to be counted in four separate ways, and they will be recording who has voted each way on each one, so there is a bit more to do then you might think.
"Nick Clegg says Facebook is NOT responsible for things posted on the site and is being asked to self-regulate in a way 'no private company should be expected to do'"
Maybe they haven't, but if that's what they want then that is that as far as I am concerned. We asked parliament to come up with something, and they would be within their rights to choose that.
It would be kind of funny to see two options the DUP both hate going up against each other in a final runoff. See these great believers in the Union abstain on a matter of criticial importance because the rest of the country would not give them what they wanted.
According to David Smith of STimes, who might actually know something about CUs, this is crap. It does not set trade policy. It means some stuff has to come and go at certain external tariffs, but we can do trade deals within those parameters and crucially are free on services stuff.
We will be "free on services stuff" because Theresa May prioritised making a deal on goods, where we run a large deficit, and forgot about services, where we have a surplus.
Corbyn letter to PLP - I haven't yet read it. But will in a minute or two.
Corbyn letter to PLP tonight: "Shd we be unable to win support for our deal, and if Parl does not give sufficient support to a similar proposition, we will keep all options on the table, including campaigning for a public vote to prevent a No Deal exit or a damaging Tory Brexit."
I'd also remind everyone prior to his advice on the revised Withdrawal Agreement several media organisations said Geoffrey Cox's legal advice to the PM would be very favourable to her.
It was not.
Yes, Cox advices as a lawyer on the law regardless of the politics
No point arguing. If its a matter of the law and obeying it, then it can be answered and cleared up.
It would be easier if those not running announced....
I'm not running in 2020.
I may run in 2024.
If a foreign born Muslim can become POTUS in 2008 and 2012 why not in 2024?
Lol...I think your internet posts might be a bit problematic....remember the trouble mitt Romney got in with his 47% quote. Not sure you disdain for peasant wagons will go down too well.
I really hope Common Market 2.0 is agreed. It's clearly the best compromise that honours the referendum result but also conserves the economy. I'd prefer remain but I can live with it. It's really where Britain should have been all along.
I don't see how it can be said to honour the referendum result when it doesn't deliver on the key things the Leave campaign were presenting to people.
Leave presented a moon on the stick. And many people voted leave but actually don't mind Freedom of Labour - I'm one, I'm sure Richard Tyndall is another....
Indeed. There are rather a lot of us on here. Robert S is another who immediately springs to mind.
Indeed. Lots of mad things were said during the referendum campaign. A Norway style Brexit (as promoted by Richard since Day One) respects the result of the referendum, offers economic security and will almost certainly lead to a ‘relief bounce’ in the economy.
I am with @RoyalBlue - time to lay down the swords and compromise.
Are we allowed to use the word vassalage without being accused of promoting violence?
To put it more technically, we would move to keeping the EU rules, simply giving up political influence over them. That is what you are suggesting?
At some point 99% of the population will say, this is silly, if we are having those rules we might as well have the political influence over them. And we’ll be back to square one?
That is certainly not what the Norway option means at all.
Stats don’t reveal truth when there are two different populations, climates, cultures, economies. Norway certainly has a bit of oil revenue to sweeten public spending and hence their populace’s perceptions. Yet each Norwegian household still pay almost as much into the EU as UK does now? That’s a funny definition of out?
No it doesn't. Some of us on here looked in detail at this around the time of the referendum and the UK equivalent commitment if we had a Norway Deal would be something around £3bn a year. It is massively less than now.
You are also wrong on the influence that Norway has over policy making as part of the EEA agreement.
Comments
I look like six dots, I do not look like a mug.
Don’t laugh. I could be tempted with a fiver.
The Executive can indeed ignore Parliament on matters of Royal Prerogative, and Letwin taking over Parliament for these votes does not change that basic fact.
If - and of course it is the big question to which I do not know the answer at the moment - the negotiations are covered by Royal Prerogative then Parliament simply has no power to force the issue in a particular direction short of VoNC the Government.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6874105/Semi-naked-climate-change-protesters-interrupt-Commons-debate-Brexit.html
I defend people against misrepresentation of the truth (in the case of the ferry deal the allegation that corruption was involved)
That’s not the same as defending the decision
Clarke was at 300 but has come into 60 for next PM. Very thin betting, though.
Bare faced cheek in the commons.
Brexit nakedly stolen.
Wasnt expecting full moon at Westminster till 19th.
It truly is a bum deal!
Brex-tits
https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/evening-standard-comment-titanic-crash-looms-for-the-government-a4106086.html
Remain 2nd referendum to me.
Would the EU party?
Of course they would.
Who will the ERG blame?
Fucking dickheads.
CU 75%
CM2 33% (very thin market)
Ref 25% (prolly more like 16%, thin market)
Whatever the other one was 0.00000001%
Smarkets has a single market for most ayes: CU 57%, CM 23%, ref 21%, revoke 2% (yes, doesn't add up to 100%).
I got a conspiratorial grin at me up in the gallery from a Tory MP when I guffawed audibly down into the chamber when a Lib Dem MP gave way to him during a remarkably tedious backbench speech and he deftly took the piss out of him.
You have not seen the AG's advice and nor have I. And like so many other occasions in the past when you have made definitive statements on this process which turned out to be rubbish you are in danger of making a fool of yourself once again.
Nor do you apparently understand Royal Prerogative. It has nothing to do with the Queen allowing anything. It is a constitutional arrangement whereby certain functions of Government are reserved for the Executive.
I am with @RoyalBlue - time to lay down the swords and compromise.
👍
It was not.
On the positive side it did boost production. In the EZ they had the lowest manufacturing PMI since April 2013 and there is a yield inversion in the US which may well be indicative of a recession in the next year or so. Our politics is truly crap but in economic terms we remain a haven of relative stability.
"Nick Clegg says Facebook is NOT responsible for things posted on the site and is being asked to self-regulate in a way 'no private company should be expected to do'"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6872989/Nick-Clegg-says-Facebook-NOT-responsible-things-posted-site.html#comments
To put it more technically, we would move to keeping the EU rules, simply giving up political influence over them. That is what you are suggesting?
At some point 99% of the population will say, this is silly, if we are having those rules we might as well have the political influence over them. And we’ll be back to square one?
So in that case there is no real conflict as such. Clarke and Boles would almost certainly vote for the CU option as they would not be voting against the WA.
https://twitter.com/Comey/status/1112798033320796160
It would be kind of funny to see two options the DUP both hate going up against each other in a final runoff. See these great believers in the Union abstain on a matter of criticial importance because the rest of the country would not give them what they wanted.
Puts me in mind of a LD advert about looking left, then right, then carry on straight ahead.
Verified account
@robhastings
6h6 hours ago
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Inspired by Cooper-Boles and Kyle-Wilson, my dad and I have come up with some alternative parliamentary amendments:
Creasy-Bottomley
Pound-Pincher
Cash-Grant
Fysh-Brine
McDonald-Berger
Hands-Onn
Costa-Coffey
Fox-Hunt
David-Bowie
Twist-Turner
Flint-Stone
I may run in 2024.
If a foreign born Muslim can become POTUS in 2008 and 2012 why not in 2024?
Corbyn letter to PLP - I haven't yet read it. But will in a minute or two.
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1112804451151167488
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1112804627387486213
https://twitter.com/DavidTCDavies/status/1112797607682822145
Which MP can we pay to ask the question?
What ever Corbyn means, might be hard to sell to Labour MPs with Leave constituents. May you live interesting times, etc.
Yes yes, no deal is still law of the land, but yet more reason there's no need to vote on it.
Big G says 10pm
BBC Parliament says before 10 pm
You are also wrong on the influence that Norway has over policy making as part of the EEA agreement.