HY continues to present these as "polls" despite the fact that they are not. It's a self-selected sample of a self-selected population.
Yet the same ConHome polling sample had 60% backing May's Deal last Friday, it is not all hard Brexit diehards. Deltapoll this morning has Boris ahead amongst all voters as next Tory leader, Opinium last night had Boris the only Tory leadership candidate with better positive future PM ratings than Corbyn. The momentum is all with Boris.
My Tory Association AGM last Friday had a straw poll with Boris and Raab the top two so the ConHome poll today entirely in accordance with what I am seeing from Tory members on the ground
Tim Bale''s scientific Tory members poll from Sussex Uni last December also had Boris ahead on 20%, Mogg second on 15% and Javid and Davis third on 8%
This is where I think the Shagger's party appeal intersects with a national appeal as mentioned below. Alex is probably correct that Tory members don't see his flaws ; but a number of Tory voters rather than members see his flaws and still support him.
Yes, Boris is the most charismatic Tory candidate and like Trump a marmite figure, you either love Boris or loathe him
The American system with pretty much only two parties and where close to 50/50 seems entrenched is perhaps more favourable than the British one where there is a larger block of swing voters and various third parties that usually pull the contest toward the centre ground.
Whatever side of the argument we favour there is one thing on which I think we can all agree, it is proving hellish difficult to deliver on the wishes of the British people, as expressed in the Referendum of 2016, that the UK becomes an independent coastal state in charge of its own fish.
Parliament is blocking Leave with a deal. Parliament is blocking Leave without a deal. Ergo Parliament is blocking Leave. Remain then? Nein. Parliament will not Revoke and will not sanction another Referendum. Ergo Parliament is blocking Remain.
Leave or Remain, the binary 2016 choice, both are looking like unicorns.
OK, not to worry, because we can trade in this Parliament for a better model. Have a General Election. Mais non! Parliament blocks this too under the FTPA. We must wait until 2022.
Conclusion?
We need a solution which involves neither leaving nor not leaving the European Union and which lasts until 2022.
I suggest an induced coma.
Somebody should start a petition to get the Queen to decide the Brexit outcome.
She has more respect and is more trusted by the public than any politician.
Whatever side of the argument we favour there is one thing on which I think we can all agree, it is proving hellish difficult to deliver on the wishes of the British people, as expressed in the Referendum of 2016, that the UK becomes an independent coastal state in charge of its own fish.
Parliament is blocking Leave with a deal. Parliament is blocking Leave without a deal. Ergo Parliament is blocking Leave. Remain then? Nein. Parliament will not Revoke and will not sanction another Referendum. Ergo Parliament is blocking Remain.
Leave or Remain, the binary 2016 choice, both are looking like unicorns.
OK, not to worry, because we can trade in this Parliament for a better model. Have a General Election. Mais non! Parliament blocks this too under the FTPA. We must wait until 2022.
Conclusion?
We need a solution which involves neither leaving nor not leaving the European Union and which lasts until 2022.
I suggest an induced coma.
Somebody should start a petition to get the Queen to decide the Brexit outcome.
She has more respect and is more trusted by the public than any politician.
I disclaim any knowledge, but it seems to me that even if a significant majority in the House can agree on a serious alternative to May’s WA, it would need at a minimum to ent, by the end of the week.
Just guessing here but on the EU elections point they would presumably only need something passed to hold them if article 50 or something else elections.
All guesswork no knowledge.
The EU election issue is a distraction, I think. They could be managed much more easily than any alternative deal which required our holding them could be arranged.
Also partially in response to Big G
My other guess would be along the lines of Edmund, EU doesn't want no deal, euro elections are the only requirement otherwise Ireland has a big problem and the EU have their back. Macron will talk tough but the 27 will come to a position of extension just for Euro elections.
It is the British side that is the bigger potential problems, say if May wanted no deal.
The problem is that both May and Corbyn want no deal. Which is why we have to bypass both front benches and take back control. The GNU doesn't have to do much nor last very long- a caretaker government which allows No Deal Brexit to be stopped, gives time for both parties to resolve their splits and then call an election. And if their caretaker programme does a few other useful things like scrap the FTPA and bring in STV then all the better.
May does not want No Deal, if she did we would have left the EU last Friday with No Deal and No extension of Article 50
That is, I think, very true. It also seems to me that her view has genuinely changed since the days of 'No Deal is better than a Bad Deal'.
As PM she will have briefings second to noneon the impact of No Deal Brexit and she has clearly decided she cannot put the country through that - even though it has meant back-tracking on one of her earlier grand statements.
Given May's inherent intransigence, that tells me a lot about how dire the impact of a No Deal Brexit would really be.
Yes she has made clear to the Cabinet the threat No Deal poses to the economy and Union is not one she will countenance unless the Commons votes for No Deal
Thornberry knows it. I dont like to suggest insincerity but more and more on Brexit I cannot believe on a number of issues that so many people do not understand things.
Therefore it is cover for cynical positioning. Davis, Johnson and go are the same so it's not a partisan point. And May and co did it too when trying to change a WA they knew and had said could not be changed.
I agree with you, it is hard to believe that MPs don't understand the basics of Brexit, that said we should not exclude the possibility that there really are about 400 or so very thick MPs in Parliament. It sure as hell would explain a lot.
I think you underestimate at 400, much higher I think.
How many of us here have been on Constituency Panels picking candidates? Or otherwise mixed with MP's. Rarely met one who could really be described as thick. Single-minded, unable to see anything outside their party interest perhaps.
I'd say IDS would have a good shout if he made the final two (doubtful, very doubtful) - hes got the blue rinsers vote. Hes not nailed on to retain his seat however
‘New Party A’ would emphasise community and society, be happy with current or higher levels of immigration, want more action to tackle climate change, support aid to poorer countries, promote rehabilitation in the criminal justice system, strongly support rights for same-sex couples and favour international co-operation, including the closest possible links with the EU after Brexit. ‘New Party B’ would aim to reduce immigration, take a tougher line on law and order, spend the international aid budget in the UK instead, prefer the UK to act independently with few formal ties to the EU after Brexit, and argue that the threat of climate change had been exaggerated, that traditional values had been wrongly neglected and that the government had become too much of a nanny state. When I asked people how they would vote in an election with these new entrants standing against the current players, the liberal ‘New Party A’ did well, with 24% of the vote, including nearly a third of 2017 Labour voters and nearly half of Lib Dems. But they were pipped at the post by the much more conservative ‘New Party B’, with 27%, including more than four in ten 2017 Tories and nearly half of Leave voters.
Whatever side of the argument we favour there is one thing on which I think we can all agree, it is proving hellish difficult to deliver on the wishes of the British people, as expressed in the Referendum of 2016, that the UK becomes an independent coastal state in charge of its own fish.
Parliament is blocking Leave with a deal. Parliament is blocking Leave without a deal. Ergo Parliament is blocking Leave. Remain then? Nein. Parliament will not Revoke and will not sanction another Referendum. Ergo Parliament is blocking Remain.
Leave or Remain, the binary 2016 choice, both are looking like unicorns.
OK, not to worry, because we can trade in this Parliament for a better model. Have a General Election. Mais non! Parliament blocks this too under the FTPA. We must wait until 2022.
Conclusion?
We need a solution which involves neither leaving nor not leaving the European Union and which lasts until 2022.
I suggest an induced coma.
Somebody should start a petition to get the Queen to decide the Brexit outcome.
She has more respect and is more trusted by the public than any politician.
No, the Queen should stay out of it, she remains popular as she does not take sides in political argument
That is, I think, very true. It also seems to me that her view has genuinely changed since the days of 'No Deal is better than a Bad Deal'.
As PM she will have briefings second to noneon the impact of No Deal Brexit and she has clearly decided she cannot put the country through that - even though it has meant back-tracking on one of her earlier grand statements.
Given May's inherent intransigence, that tells me a lot about how dire the impact of a No Deal Brexit would really be.
The "No Deal" term annoys me, as there is no such option. There are already many, many contingency deals ready for the UK crashing out of the EU. It's not May's Deal versus No Deal, it's May's Deal versus dozens, or maybe even hundreds, of bilateral and multilateral deals. The idea that "No Deal" is somehow quick and straightforward is nonsense, it will almost certainly be a slow and complicated path to take. Now some people might still prefer that path to May's Deal, but I wish people would be realistic about what it would entail.
HY continues to present these as "polls" despite the fact that they are not. It's a self-selected sample of a self-selected population.
Yet the same ConHome polling sample had 60% backing May's Deal last Friday, it is not all hard Brexit diehards. Deltapoll this morning has Boris ahead amongst all voters as next Tory leader, Opinium last night had Boris the only Tory leadership candidate with better positive future PM ratings than Corbyn. The momentum is all with Boris.
My Tory Association AGM last Friday had a straw poll with Boris and Raab the top two so the ConHome poll today entirely in accordance with what I am seeing from Tory members on the ground
Tim Bale''s scientific Tory members poll from Sussex Uni last December also had Boris ahead on 20%, Mogg second on 15% and Javid and Davis third on 8%
This is where I think the Shagger's party appeal intersects with a national appeal as mentioned below. Alex is probably correct that Tory members don't see his flaws ; but a number of Tory voters rather than members see his flaws and still support him.
Yes, Boris is the most charismatic Tory candidate and like Trump a marmite figure, you either love Boris or loathe him
The American system with pretty much only two parties and where close to 50/50 seems entrenched is perhaps more favourable than the British one where there is a larger block of swing voters and various third parties that usually pull the contest toward the centre ground.
Not always, Attlee and Thatcher won from the left and right respectively, not the centre ground.
Plenty of centrists have won in the US too e.g. Bush Snr and Bill Clinton
Thornberry knows it. I dont like to suggest insincerity but more and more on Brexit I cannot believe on a number of issues that so many people do not understand things.
Therefore it is cover for cynical positioning. Davis, Johnson and go are the same so it's not a partisan point. And May and co did it too when trying to change a WA they knew and had said could not be changed.
I agree with you, it is hard to believe that MPs don't understand the basics of Brexit, that said we should not exclude the possibility that there really are about 400 or so very thick MPs in Parliament. It sure as hell would explain a lot.
I think you underestimate at 400, much higher I think.
How many of us here have been on Constituency Panels picking candidates? Or otherwise mixed with MP's. Rarely met one who could really be described as thick. Single-minded, unable to see anything outside their party interest perhaps.
There are some who are intellectually challenged (having met IDS I'd say he isn't particularly bright), but I agree the majority are intelligent in some way or other.
HY continues to present these as "polls" despite the fact that they are not. It's a self-selected sample of a self-selected population.
Yet the same ConHome polling sample had 60% backing May's Deal last Friday, it is not all hard Brexit diehards. Deltapoll this morning has Boris ahead amongst all voters as next Tory leader, Opinium last night had Boris the only Tory leadership candidate with better positive future PM ratings than Corbyn. The momentum is all with Boris.
My Tory Association AGM last Friday had a straw poll with Boris and Raab the top two so the ConHome poll today entirely in accordance with what I am seeing from Tory members on the ground
Tim Bale''s scientific Tory members poll from Sussex Uni last December also had Boris ahead on 20%, Mogg second on 15% and Javid and Davis third on 8%
This is where I think the Shagger's party appeal intersects with a national appeal as mentioned below. Alex is probably correct that Tory members don't see his flaws ; but a number of Tory voters rather than members see his flaws and still support him.
Yes, Boris is the most charismatic Tory candidate and like Trump a marmite figure, you either love Boris or loathe him
The American system with pretty much only two parties and where close to 50/50 seems entrenched is perhaps more favourable than the British one where there is a larger block of swing voters and various third parties that usually pull the contest toward the centre ground.
Not always, Attlee and Thatcher won from the left and right respectively, not the centre ground.
Yes. This is partly why both were more influential than Blair.
Petition rate picking up now after it hit 6 million . I don’t personally agree with it and would only support a second vote not revocation but interesting to see how far it can get .
And as none of the other leave options have even that much support in petition space, we can assume that active support for leave is now derisory compared to remaining.
I disclaim any knowledge, but it seems to me that even if a significant majority in the House can agree on a serious alternative to May’s WA, it would need at a minimum to ent, by the end of the week.
Just guessing here but on the EU elections point they would presumably only need something passed to hold them if article 50 or something else elections.
All guesswork no knowledge.
The EU election issue is a distraction, I think. They could be managed much more easily than any alternative deal which required our holding them could be arranged.
Also partially in response to Big G
My other guess would be along the lines of Edmund, EU doesn't want no deal, euro elections are the only requirement otherwise Ireland has a big problem and the EU have their back. Macron will talk tough but the 27 will come to a position of extension just for Euro elections.
It is the British side that is the bigger potential problems, say if May wanted no deal.
The problem is that both May and Corbyn want no deal. Which is why we have to bypass both front benches and take back control. The GNU doesn't have to do much nor last very long- a caretaker government which allows No Deal Brexit to be stopped, gives time for both parties to resolve their splits and then call an election. And if their caretaker programme does a few other useful things like scrap the FTPA and bring in STV then all the better.
May does not want No Deal, if she did we would have left the EU last Friday with No Deal and No extension of Article 50
That is, I think, very true. It also seems to me that her view has genuinely changed since the days of 'No Deal is better than a Bad Deal'.
As PM she will have briefings second to noneon the impact of No Deal Brexit and she has clearly decided she cannot put the country through that - even though it has meant back-tracking on one of her earlier grand statements.
Given May's inherent intransigence, that tells me a lot about how dire the impact of a No Deal Brexit would really be.
Yes she has made clear to the Cabinet the threat No Deal poses to the economy and Union is not one she will countenance unless the Commons votes for No Deal
See, this is why Corbyn is winning - he knows May will ALWAYS blink before him.
Whatever side of the argument we favour there is one thing on which I think we can all agree, it is proving hellish difficult to deliver on the wishes of the British people, as expressed in the Referendum of 2016, that the UK becomes an independent coastal state in charge of its own fish.
Parliament is blocking Leave with a deal. Parliament is blocking Leave without a deal. Ergo Parliament is blocking Leave. Remain then? Nein. Parliament will not Revoke and will not sanction another Referendum. Ergo Parliament is blocking Remain.
Leave or Remain, the binary 2016 choice, both are looking like unicorns.
OK, not to worry, because we can trade in this Parliament for a better model. Have a General Election. Mais non! Parliament blocks this too under the FTPA. We must wait until 2022.
Conclusion?
We need a solution which involves neither leaving nor not leaving the European Union and which lasts until 2022.
I suggest an induced coma.
Somebody should start a petition to get the Queen to decide the Brexit outcome.
She has more respect and is more trusted by the public than any politician.
No, the Queen should stay out of it, she remains popular as she does not take sides in political argument
Quite, If the queen gets involved it would be the beginning of the end of monarchy, politicians would act to prevent such use of 17th century powers again. There's a reason no monarch since flabby Anne has refused to sign a bill into law or used their prerogative outside the advice of the PM or in ceremonial use. As a Republican, go for it Liz.
Yes/no questions with no other options would be better presented without the DKs:
Revoke - 51% support Referendum - 51% No Deal - 46%
46% for No Deal is 1% more than the 45% Yes to independence in Scotland got.
Remain and revoke Article 50 might narrowly win an EUref2 over Leave with No Deal but on those numbers there will be a lot of furious Leave voters and Brexiteers
I think people are making the mistake of thinking that people favouring No deal are mutually exclusive from those favouring Revoke. I suspect there is substantial crossover.
The explanation? All these people want is it to be over (or at least the current impasse), one way or another. They don't believe no deal will be as disastrous as claimed, and they believe that revoke will just be a return to the status quo.
Some people think that 'no deal' is the status quo. Noel Edmonds' game show has a lot to answer for.
A lot of people who voted to leave are sick of it and just want it over with. 'Leave or stay, I no longer care', one said.
There's now a 3rd. petition, not just the Revoke and Ultra Remain ones, asking for an enquiry into the legality of the leave vote before Brexit takes place
And as none of the other leave options have even that much support in petition space, we can assume that active support for leave is now derisory compared to remaining.
‘New Party A’ would emphasise community and society, be happy with current or higher levels of immigration, want more action to tackle climate change, support aid to poorer countries, promote rehabilitation in the criminal justice system, strongly support rights for same-sex couples and favour international co-operation, including the closest possible links with the EU after Brexit. ‘New Party B’ would aim to reduce immigration, take a tougher line on law and order, spend the international aid budget in the UK instead, prefer the UK to act independently with few formal ties to the EU after Brexit, and argue that the threat of climate change had been exaggerated, that traditional values had been wrongly neglected and that the government had become too much of a nanny state. When I asked people how they would vote in an election with these new entrants standing against the current players, the liberal ‘New Party A’ did well, with 24% of the vote, including nearly a third of 2017 Labour voters and nearly half of Lib Dems. But they were pipped at the post by the much more conservative ‘New Party B’, with 27%, including more than four in ten 2017 Tories and nearly half of Leave voters.
Thornberry knows it. I dont like to suggest insincerity but more and more on Brexit I cannot believe on a number of issues that so many people do not understand things.
Therefore it is cover for cynical positioning. Davis, Johnson and go are the same so it's not a partisan point. And May and co did it too when trying to change a WA they knew and had said could not be changed.
I agree with you, it is hard to believe that MPs don't understand the basics of Brexit, that said we should not exclude the possibility that there really are about 400 or so very thick MPs in Parliament. It sure as hell would explain a lot.
I think you underestimate at 400, much higher I think.
How many of us here have been on Constituency Panels picking candidates? Or otherwise mixed with MP's. Rarely met one who could really be described as thick. Single-minded, unable to see anything outside their party interest perhaps.
Well spineless , self seeking , no principles , sheep like , cannon fodder. Is that any better.
Petition = scooby gang solution to national crisis. Lots of terribly cross people naively believing in the power of crossness.
March = next tier scooby gang solution to national crisis. Lots of terribly cross people naively believing in the power of getting out of bed to show crossness.
‘New Party A’ would emphasise community and society, be happy with current or higher levels of immigration, want more action to tackle climate change, support aid to poorer countries, promote rehabilitation in the criminal justice system, strongly support rights for same-sex couples and favour international co-operation, including the closest possible links with the EU after Brexit. ‘New Party B’ would aim to reduce immigration, take a tougher line on law and order, spend the international aid budget in the UK instead, prefer the UK to act independently with few formal ties to the EU after Brexit, and argue that the threat of climate change had been exaggerated, that traditional values had been wrongly neglected and that the government had become too much of a nanny state. When I asked people how they would vote in an election with these new entrants standing against the current players, the liberal ‘New Party A’ did well, with 24% of the vote, including nearly a third of 2017 Labour voters and nearly half of Lib Dems. But they were pipped at the post by the much more conservative ‘New Party B’, with 27%, including more than four in ten 2017 Tories and nearly half of Leave voters.
Hardly decisive, especially with barely half the electorate between them. Where are the other options?
The current parties.
Ok. Making some deductions from the article that would produce something like:
New social conservatives: 27% New social liberal 24% Labour around 22% Conservative around 20% LibDem around 4% Others 3%
Under our current voting system that would be a very messy election, impossible to predict.
For fun, I had a go on electoral calculus using the following shares:
New social conservatives (UKIP): 27% New social liberal (LD) 24%+4% Labour around 22% Conservative around 20%
Result was: New social conservatives (UKIP): 98 New social liberal (LD) 121 Labour around 22% 241! Conservative around 20% 115
Lab 85 short of overall majority Coalition government Lab +LD 241+121
I think a Labour-Lib Dem coalition is very likely at some point between now and the next couple of years, however unlikely that may still seem at the moment.
Whatever side of the argument we favour there is one thing on which I think we can all agree, it is proving hellish difficult to deliver on the wishes of the British people, as expressed in the Referendum of 2016, that the UK becomes an independent coastal state in charge of its own fish.
Parliament is blocking Leave with a deal. Parliament is blocking Leave without a deal. Ergo Parliament is blocking Leave. Remain then? Nein. Parliament will not Revoke and will not sanction another Referendum. Ergo Parliament is blocking Remain.
Leave or Remain, the binary 2016 choice, both are looking like unicorns.
OK, not to worry, because we can trade in this Parliament for a better model. Have a General Election. Mais non! Parliament blocks this too under the FTPA. We must wait until 2022.
Conclusion?
We need a solution which involves neither leaving nor not leaving the European Union and which lasts until 2022.
I suggest an induced coma.
Somebody should start a petition to get the Queen to decide the Brexit outcome.
She has more respect and is more trusted by the public than any politician.
No, the Queen should stay out of it, she remains popular as she does not take sides in political argument
Quite, If the queen gets involved it would be the beginning of the end of monarchy, politicians would act to prevent such use of 17th century powers again. There's a reason no monarch since flabby Anne has refused to sign a bill into law or used their prerogative outside the advice of the PM or in ceremonial use. As a Republican, go for it Liz.
I don't think Brenda would stick her gold plated oar in but if she did it would hasten the already inevitable end of the monarchy.
Petition rate picking up now after it hit 6 million . I don’t personally agree with it and would only support a second vote not revocation but interesting to see how far it can get .
Is there anyone out there still thinks we are leaving. Tories plan is working well, they will bore the country into submission by having never ending delays till it disappears.
Petition = scooby gang solution to national crisis. Lots of terribly cross people naively believing in the power of crossness.
March = next tier scooby gang solution to national crisis. Lots of terribly cross people naively believing in the power of getting out of bed to show crossness.
Ultimate scooby is marching to number 10 to present a petition accompanied by a minor celebrity
Whatever side of the argument we favour there is one thing on which I think we can all agree, it is proving hellish difficult to deliver on the wishes of the British people, as expressed in the Referendum of 2016, that the UK becomes an independent coastal state in charge of its own fish.
Parliament is blocking Leave with a deal. Parliament is blocking Leave without a deal. Ergo Parliament is blocking Leave. Remain then? Nein. Parliament will not Revoke and will not sanction another Referendum. Ergo Parliament is blocking Remain.
Leave or Remain, the binary 2016 choice, both are looking like unicorns.
OK, not to worry, because we can trade in this Parliament for a better model. Have a General Election. Mais non! Parliament blocks this too under the FTPA. We must wait until 2022.
Conclusion?
We need a solution which involves neither leaving nor not leaving the European Union and which lasts until 2022.
I suggest an induced coma.
We just need a new Bristish people.
Maybe we could have Indonesians vote for us on whether we should Remain or Leave?
Yes/no questions with no other options would be better presented without the DKs:
Revoke - 51% support Referendum - 51% No Deal - 46%
46% for No Deal is 1% more than the 45% Yes to independence in Scotland got.
Remain and revoke Article 50 might narrowly win an EUref2 over Leave with No Deal but on those numbers there will be a lot of furious Leave voters and Brexiteers
I think people are making the mistake of thinking that people favouring No deal are mutually exclusive from those favouring Revoke. I suspect there is substantial crossover.
The explanation? All these people want is it to be over (or at least the current impasse), one way or another. They don't believe no deal will be as disastrous as claimed, and they believe that revoke will just be a return to the status quo.
They're the ones suffering from cognitive fatigue. It's a big club. They don't understand all the acronyms or parliamentary procedures and don't want to. They just want a simple solution. Piss or get off the pot (if you'll excuse my French this early on Mother's Day).
‘New Party A’ would emphasise community and society, be happy with current or higher levels of immigration, want more action to tackle climate change, support aid to poorer countries, promote rehabilitation in the criminal justice system, strongly support rights for same-sex couples and favour international co-operation, including the closest possible links with the EU after Brexit. ‘New Party B’ would aim to reduce immigration, take a tougher line on law and order, spend the international aid budget in the UK instead, prefer the UK to act independently with few formal ties to the EU after Brexit, and argue that the threat of climate change had been exaggerated, that traditional values had been wrongly neglected and that the government had become too much of a nanny state. When I asked people how they would vote in an election with these new entrants standing against the current players, the liberal ‘New Party A’ did well, with 24% of the vote, including nearly a third of 2017 Labour voters and nearly half of Lib Dems. But they were pipped at the post by the much more conservative ‘New Party B’, with 27%, including more than four in ten 2017 Tories and nearly half of Leave voters.
Hardly decisive, especially with barely half the electorate between them. Where are the other options?
The current parties.
Ok. Making some deductions from the article that would produce something like:
New social conservatives: 27% New social liberal 24% Labour around 22% Conservative around 20% LibDem around 4% Others 3%
Under our current voting system that would be a very messy election, impossible to predict.
For fun, I had a go on electoral calculus using the following shares:
New social conservatives (UKIP): 27% New social liberal (LD) 24%+4% Labour around 22% Conservative around 20%
Result was: New social conservatives (UKIP): 98 New social liberal (LD) 121 Labour around 22% 241! Conservative around 20% 115
Lab 85 short of overall majority Coalition government Lab +LD 241+121
I think a Labour-Lib Dem coalition is very likely at some point between now and the next couple of years, however unlikely that may still seem at the moment.
If labour are like 3 short, sure. If not they might as well ask the Greens
Petition = scooby gang solution to national crisis. Lots of terribly cross people naively believing in the power of crossness.
March = next tier scooby gang solution to national crisis. Lots of terribly cross people naively believing in the power of getting out of bed to show crossness.
Ultimate scooby is marching to number 10 to present a petition accompanied by a minor celebrity
...who then has to take it home, because number 10 won't accept it
And as none of the other leave options have even that much support in petition space, we can assume that active support for leave is now derisory compared to remaining.
Just for old time's sake:
Remain 52% Leave 48%
We all love the old hits. But it is looking likely we'll have another referendum result to quote soon.
Petition = scooby gang solution to national crisis. Lots of terribly cross people naively believing in the power of crossness.
March = next tier scooby gang solution to national crisis. Lots of terribly cross people naively believing in the power of getting out of bed to show crossness.
Ultimate scooby is marching to number 10 to present a petition accompanied by a minor celebrity
...who then has to take it home, because number 10 won't accept it
Whatever side of the argument we favour there is one thing on which I think we can all agree, it is proving hellish difficult to deliver on the wishes of the British people, as expressed in the Referendum of 2016, that the UK becomes an independent coastal state in charge of its own fish.
Parliament is blocking Leave with a deal. Parliament is blocking Leave without a deal. Ergo Parliament is blocking Leave. Remain then? Nein. Parliament will not Revoke and will not sanction another Referendum. Ergo Parliament is blocking Remain.
Leave or Remain, the binary 2016 choice, both are looking like unicorns.
OK, not to worry, because we can trade in this Parliament for a better model. Have a General Election. Mais non! Parliament blocks this too under the FTPA. We must wait until 2022.
Conclusion?
We need a solution which involves neither leaving nor not leaving the European Union and which lasts until 2022.
I suggest an induced coma.
Somebody should start a petition to get the Queen to decide the Brexit outcome.
She has more respect and is more trusted by the public than any politician.
No, the Queen should stay out of it, she remains popular as she does not take sides in political argument
Quite, If the queen gets involved it would be the beginning of the end of monarchy, politicians would act to prevent such use of 17th century powers again. There's a reason no monarch since flabby Anne has refused to sign a bill into law or used their prerogative outside the advice of the PM or in ceremonial use. As a Republican, go for it Liz.
I don't think Brenda would stick her gold plated oar in but if she did it would hasten the already inevitable end of the monarchy.
The monarch's end is far from inevitable, 68% of voters back the monarchy including an astonishing 61% on 18 to 24s.
The monarchy is far more popular than either the Tory of Labour parties in the UK and the Queen far more popular than either May or Corbyn
Yes, Boris is the most charismatic Tory candidate and like Trump a marmite figure, you either love Boris or loathe him
Sort of true.
I think there is a sizeable 3rd category though - people who are quite apolitical and shallow, who prefer these sorts of 'characters' to the standard politician because of the entertainment value.
Whatever side of the argument we favour there is one thing on which I think we can all agree, it is proving hellish difficult to deliver on the wishes of the British people, as expressed in the Referendum of 2016, that the UK becomes an independent coastal state in charge of its own fish.
Parliament is blocking Leave with a deal. Parliament is blocking Leave without a deal. Ergo Parliament is blocking Leave. Remain then? Nein. Parliament will not Revoke and will not sanction another Referendum. Ergo Parliament is blocking Remain.
Leave or Remain, the binary 2016 choice, both are looking like unicorns.
OK, not to worry, because we can trade in this Parliament for a better model. Have a General Election. Mais non! Parliament blocks this too under the FTPA. We must wait until 2022.
Conclusion?
We need a solution which involves neither leaving nor not leaving the European Union and which lasts until 2022.
I suggest an induced coma.
We just need a new Bristish people.
Maybe we could have Indonesians vote for us on whether we should Remain or Leave?
Ho ho, very satirical.
Maybe we could have ourselves vote for us on whether we should Remain or Leave?
Petition = scooby gang solution to national crisis. Lots of terribly cross people naively believing in the power of crossness.
March = next tier scooby gang solution to national crisis. Lots of terribly cross people naively believing in the power of getting out of bed to show crossness.
Ultimate scooby is marching to number 10 to present a petition accompanied by a minor celebrity
...who then has to take it home, because number 10 won't accept it
Yes, Boris is the most charismatic Tory candidate and like Trump a marmite figure, you either love Boris or loathe him
Sort of true.
I think there is a sizeable 3rd category though - people who are quite apolitical and shallow, who prefer these sorts of 'characters' to the standard politician because of the entertainment value.
Indeed, Michael Fabricant was once told by an apolitical teenager in his constituency he was the most entertaining thing about Lichfield
Listening to Pienaars Politics I couldn't help but reflect on the untimely death of Paddy Ashdown. He would at least have formulated a policy and had the ability to make it sound profound. So many nonentities flapping around at the moment.*
Petition = scooby gang solution to national crisis. Lots of terribly cross people naively believing in the power of crossness.
March = next tier scooby gang solution to national crisis. Lots of terribly cross people naively believing in the power of getting out of bed to show crossness.
Ultimate scooby is marching to number 10 to present a petition accompanied by a minor celebrity
...who then has to take it home, because number 10 won't accept it
Larry goes to sleep on it
Larry's litter tray!
Actually the most Scooby thing I ever heard was my philosophy lecturer coming in thd day Thstcher resigned and announcing 'we got her!' Great work comrade, great work
Thornberry knows it. I dont like to suggest insincerity but more and more on Brexit I cannot believe on a number of issues that so many people do not understand things.
Therefore it is cover for cynical positioning. Davis, Johnson and go are the same so it's not a partisan point. And May and co did it too when trying to change a WA they knew and had said could not be changed.
I agree with you, it is hard to believe that MPs don't understand the basics of Brexit, that said we should not exclude the possibility that there really are about 400 or so very thick MPs in Parliament. It sure as hell would explain a lot.
I think you underestimate at 400, much higher I think.
How many of us here have been on Constituency Panels picking candidates? Or otherwise mixed with MP's. Rarely met one who could really be described as thick. Single-minded, unable to see anything outside their party interest perhaps.
Well spineless , self seeking , no principles , sheep like , cannon fodder. Is that any better.
OK, malc, what you do in present circumstances?
I know, of course, that like me, you wouldn't have started from here!
I disclaim any knowledge, but it seems to me that even if a significant majority in the House can agree on a serious alternative to May’s WA, it would need at a minimum to ent, by the end of the week.
Just guessing here but on the EU elections point they would presumably only need something passed to hold them if article 50 or something else elections.
All guesswork no knowledge.
The EU election issue is a distraction, I think. They could be managed much more easily than any alternative deal which required our holding them could be arranged.
Also partially in response to Big G
My other guess would be along the lines of Edmund, EU doesn't want no deal, euro elections are the only requirement otherwise Ireland has a big problem and the EU have their back. Macron will talk tough but the 27 will come to a position of extension just for Euro elections.
It is the British side that is the bigger potential problems, say if May wanted no deal.
The problem is that both May and Corbyn want no deal. Which is why we have to bypass both front benches and take back control. The GNU doesn't have to do much nor tter.
May does not want No Deal, if she did we would have left the EU last Friday with No Deal and No extension of Article 50
That is, I think, very true. It also seems to me that her view has genuinely changed since the days of 'No Deal is better than a Bad Deal'.
As PM she will have briefings second to noneon the impact of No Deal Brexit and she has clearly decided she cannot put the country through that - even though it has meant back-tracking on one of her earlier grand statements.
Given May's inherent intransigence, that tells me a lot about how dire the impact of a No Deal Brexit would really be.
Yes she has made clear to the Cabinet the threat No Deal poses to the economy and Union is not one she will countenance unless the Commons votes for No Deal
See, this is why Corbyn is winning - he knows May will ALWAYS blink before him.
Except Corbyn will then be lumbered with having to deal with Brexit himself and the problem most of his voters want EUref2 but most Labour seats voted Leave
Whatever side of the argument we favour there is one thing on which I think we can all agree, it is proving hellish difficult to deliver on the wishes of the British people, as expressed in the Referendum of 2016, that the UK becomes an independent coastal state in charge of its own fish.
Parliament is blocking Leave with a deal. Parliament is blocking Leave without a deal. Ergo Parliament is blocking Leave. Remain then? Nein. Parliament will not Revoke and will not sanction another Referendum. Ergo Parliament is blocking Remain.
Leave or Remain, the binary 2016 choice, both are looking like unicorns.
OK, not to worry, because we can trade in this Parliament for a better model. Have a General Election. Mais non! Parliament blocks this too under the FTPA. We must wait until 2022.
Conclusion?
We need a solution which involves neither leaving nor not leaving the European Union and which lasts until 2022.
I suggest an induced coma.
Somebody should start a petition to get the Queen to decide the Brexit outcome.
She has more respect and is more trusted by the public than any politician.
No, the Queen should stay out of it, she remains popular as she does not take sides in political argument
Quite, If the queen gets involved it would be the beginning of the end of monarchy, politicians would act to prevent such use of 17th century powers again. There's a reason no monarch since flabby Anne has refused to sign a bill into law or used their prerogative outside the advice of the PM or in ceremonial use. As a Republican, go for it Liz.
She will tell MPs to sort it out themselves and head off to Balmoral
Whatever side of the argument we favour there is one thing on which I think we can all agree, it is proving hellish difficult to deliver on the wishes of the British people, as expressed in the Referendum of 2016, that the UK becomes an independent coastal state in charge of its own fish.
Parliament is blocking Leave with a deal. Parliament is blocking Leave without a deal. Ergo Parliament is blocking Leave. Remain then? Nein. Parliament will not Revoke and will not sanction another Referendum. Ergo Parliament is blocking Remain.
Leave or Remain, the binary 2016 choice, both are looking like unicorns.
OK, not to worry, because we can trade in this Parliament for a better model. Have a General Election. Mais non! Parliament blocks this too under the FTPA. We must wait until 2022.
Conclusion?
We need a solution which involves neither leaving nor not leaving the European Union and which lasts until 2022.
I suggest an induced coma.
Somebody should start a petition to get the Queen to decide the Brexit outcome.
She has more respect and is more trusted by the public than any politician.
No, the Queen should stay out of it, she remains popular as she does not take sides in political argument
Quite, If the queen gets involved it would be the beginning of the end of monarchy, politicians would act to prevent such use of 17th century powers again. There's a reason no monarch since flabby Anne has refused to sign a bill into law or used their prerogative outside the advice of the PM or in ceremonial use. As a Republican, go for it Liz.
I don't think Brenda would stick her gold plated oar in but if she did it would hasten the already inevitable end of the monarchy.
Fine, as long as they don't hold a fecking referendum about it. I cannot live through Brendexit or Chexit.
<<I think a Labour-Lib Dem coalition is very likely at some point between now and the next couple of years, however unlikely that may still seem at the moment.>>
<<If labour are like 3 short, sure. If not they might as well ask the Greens>>
I think there's also a broader issue of reviving LD support in the southwest, and a ceiling on Corbyn seats. Unlikely as it may seem now, you may at some time see a kind of moderated Corbynism in alliance with both the Lib Dems and SNP.
Petition rate picking up now after it hit 6 million
Six million emails.
Personally I've got half a dozen emails I use regularly, and can create hundreds more at the drop of a hat.
Would you also be able to assign those email addresses to valid postcodes in roughly the proportions that the 2016 vote broke down, and lodge them on the site at a rate consistent with what you'd expect people to be doing spontaneously? And how many other people doing the same would be needed to make much difference to the result?
Corbyns hopes of forcing a GE dead as a Dodo. Sometimes for all the excitement over ideas, personalities, different options in politics it all just comes down to basic arithmetic, namely the various independents not in Labour also the DUP. A moderate Labour leader and Labour Party alternative would still struggle with the same arithmetic, but fear of enabling a Corbyn PM kills winning vonc and second GE stone dead.
Anyway, Merkle watches whilst Macron asks, how does a GE actually solve your brexit problems? how do you convincingly answer? You can’t
enough death cap wearing as I pass sentence on chance for GE, here’s the answer to May’s brexit problem. She can’t say her compromise deals dead as a glue stick, she has to keep whipping it. Her deal is a compromise that prevents chaos. Once she admits defeat the party chaos begins. I can get it to pass the commons. A meaningful vote on 11th or 12th after the judgment of the summit where the forced option is pass the WA or it’s definitely a conscious no deal decoupling, that will ensure enough labour votes to pass it. It’s not even a gamble, it would certainly pass that forced choice.
Is it mostly remainery types coming out to talk brexit today? What are the others up to...
Whatever side of the argument we favour there is one thing on which I think we can all agree, it is proving hellish difficult to deliver on the wishes of the British people, as expressed in the Referendum of 2016, that the UK becomes an independent coastal state in charge of its own fish.
Parliament is blocking Leave with a deal. Parliament is blocking Leave without a deal. Ergo Parliament is blocking Leave. Remain then? Nein. Parliament will not Revoke and will not sanction another Referendum. Ergo Parliament is blocking Remain.
Leave or Remain, the binary 2016 choice, both are looking like unicorns.
OK, not to worry, because we can trade in this Parliament for a better model. Have a General Election. Mais non! Parliament blocks this too under the FTPA. We must wait until 2022.
Conclusion?
We need a solution which involves neither leaving nor not leaving the European Union and which lasts until 2022.
I suggest an induced coma.
Somebody should start a petition to get the Queen to decide the Brexit outcome.
She has more respect and is more trusted by the public than any politician.
Supposedly she has weekly chats with the PM during which she has the constitutional right to encourage and warn.
What has she done with these chats over the last two years? Has she simply been exchanging recommendations for country walks with the PM? I know May gives the appearance of being incredibly stubborn, but I rather think that if HMQ had a personal plan to steer the country through this crisis she ought to have been able to persuade the PM of it.
HMQ's failure is written over Brexit as much as the Commons and the PM.
<<I think a Labour-Lib Dem coalition is very likely at some point between now and the next couple of years, however unlikely that may still seem at the moment.>>
<<If labour are like 3 short, sure. If not they might as well ask the Greens>>
I think there's also a broader issue of reviving LD support in the southwest, and a ceiling on Corbyn seats. Unlikely as it may seem now, you may at some time see a kind of moderated Corbynism in alliance with both the Lib Dems and SNP.
Do you mean that LD support in the SW is reviving?
It shows what it thinks would have happened had we taken a different course. Balls and uncles come to mind.
PS My stories may be sh*te but they are my own work.
You have misunderstood the CER graph. The comparison is with the actual performance of a basket of other countries used to model our own economy.
Nobody is seriously claiming Brexit has aided our economy, and there’s decent enough evidence of resultant economic slowdown, yet for some reason PB’s finest wish to attack this graph?
It must truly be embarrassing to have voted for Brexit.
Not at all you halfwitted cretinous blowhard, get your head out of your own butt.
Morning Malc.
Morning GIN, the frothers are on overdrive this weather. Nutters are all coming out of the woodwork.
<<I think a Labour-Lib Dem coalition is very likely at some point between now and the next couple of years, however unlikely that may still seem at the moment.>>
<<If labour are like 3 short, sure. If not they might as well ask the Greens>>
I think there's also a broader issue of reviving LD support in the southwest, and a ceiling on Corbyn seats. Unlikely as it may seem now, you may at some time see a kind of moderated Corbynism in alliance with both the Lib Dems and SNP.
Do you mean that LD support in the SW is reviving?
<<I think a Labour-Lib Dem coalition is very likely at some point between now and the next couple of years, however unlikely that may still seem at the moment.>>
<<If labour are like 3 short, sure. If not they might as well ask the Greens>>
I think there's also a broader issue of reviving LD support in the southwest, and a ceiling on Corbyn seats. Unlikely as it may seem now, you may at some time see a kind of moderated Corbynism in alliance with both the Lib Dems and SNP.
Sounds like quite a good option for an administration to me.
King Cole, whilst half a dozen is a fair number, lots of people have 2-3 e-mail addresses. Can be handy, not least for having a 'professional' e-mail address.
Anyway, I must be off. Let's hope the race is exciting and profitable.
Petition rate picking up now after it hit 6 million
Six million emails.
Personally I've got half a dozen emails I use regularly, and can create hundreds more at the drop of a hat.
Perhaps the people whose job it is to detect spurious signatures are even cleverer than you are. Counterintuitive, I admit, but we can't rule it out completely.
Petition rate picking up now after it hit 6 million
Six million emails.
Personally I've got half a dozen emails I use regularly, and can create hundreds more at the drop of a hat.
Then why not sign the Leave with no deal on April 12 if you’re so irritated by the revoke one . It seems the revoke petition is hitting a nerve with Leavers !
Whatever side of the argument we favour there is one thing on which I think we can all agree, it is proving hellish difficult to deliver on the wishes of the British people, as expressed in the Referendum of 2016, that the UK becomes an independent coastal state in charge of its own fish.
Parliament is blocking Leave with a deal. Parliament is blocking Leave without a deal. Ergo Parliament is blocking Leave. Remain then? Nein. Parliament will not Revoke and will not sanction another Referendum. Ergo Parliament is blocking Remain.
Leave or Remain, the binary 2016 choice, both are looking like unicorns.
OK, not to worry, because we can trade in this Parliament for a better model. Have a General Election. Mais non! Parliament blocks this too under the FTPA. We must wait until 2022.
Conclusion?
We need a solution which involves neither leaving nor not leaving the European Union and which lasts until 2022.
I suggest an induced coma.
Somebody should start a petition to get the Queen to decide the Brexit outcome.
She has more respect and is more trusted by the public than any politician.
Whatever side of the argument we favour there is one thing on which I think we can all agree, it is proving hellish difficult to deliver on the wishes of the British people, as expressed in the Referendum of 2016, that the UK becomes an independent coastal state in charge of its own fish.
Parliament is blocking Leave with a deal. Parliament is blocking Leave without a deal. Ergo Parliament is blocking Leave. Remain then? Nein. Parliament will not Revoke and will not sanction another Referendum. Ergo Parliament is blocking Remain.
Leave or Remain, the binary 2016 choice, both are looking like unicorns.
OK, not to worry, because we can trade in this Parliament for a better model. Have a General Election. Mais non! Parliament blocks this too under the FTPA. We must wait until 2022.
Conclusion?
We need a solution which involves neither leaving nor not leaving the European Union and which lasts until 2022.
I suggest an induced coma.
Somebody should start a petition to get the Queen to decide the Brexit outcome.
She has more respect and is more trusted by the public than any politician.
No, the Queen should stay out of it, she remains popular as she does not take sides in political argument
Quite, If the queen gets involved it would be the beginning of the end of monarchy, politicians would act to prevent such use of 17th century powers again. There's a reason no monarch since flabby Anne has refused to sign a bill into law or used their prerogative outside the advice of the PM or in ceremonial use. As a Republican, go for it Liz.
I don't think Brenda would stick her gold plated oar in but if she did it would hasten the already inevitable end of the monarchy.
The monarch's end is far from inevitable, 68% of voters back the monarchy including an astonishing 61% on 18 to 24s.
The monarchy is far more popular than either the Tory of Labour parties in the UK and the Queen far more popular than either May or Corbyn
Petition = scooby gang solution to national crisis. Lots of terribly cross people naively believing in the power of crossness.
March = next tier scooby gang solution to national crisis. Lots of terribly cross people naively believing in the power of getting out of bed to show crossness.
Ultimate scooby is marching to number 10 to present a petition accompanied by a minor celebrity
...who then has to take it home, because number 10 won't accept it
Larry goes to sleep on it
Larry's litter tray!
Actually the most Scooby thing I ever heard was my philosophy lecturer coming in thd day Thstcher resigned and announcing 'we got her!' Great work comrade, great work
A reflection of the national mood. The whole country was smiling
Whatever side of the argument we favour there is one thing on which I think we can all agree, it is proving hellish difficult to deliver on the wishes of the British people, as expressed in the Referendum of 2016, that the UK becomes an independent coastal state in charge of its own fish.
Parliament is blocking Leave with a deal. Parliament is blocking Leave without a deal. Ergo Parliament is blocking Leave. Remain then? Nein. Parliament will not Revoke and will not sanction another Referendum. Ergo Parliament is blocking Remain.
Leave or Remain, the binary 2016 choice, both are looking like unicorns.
OK, not to worry, because we can trade in this Parliament for a better model. Have a General Election. Mais non! Parliament blocks this too under the FTPA. We must wait until 2022.
Conclusion?
We need a solution which involves neither leaving nor not leaving the European Union and which lasts until 2022.
I suggest an induced coma.
Somebody should start a petition to get the Queen to decide the Brexit outcome.
She has more respect and is more trusted by the public than any politician.
No, the Queen should stay out of it, she remains popular as she does not take sides in political argument
Quite, If the queen gets involved it would be the beginning of the end of monarchy, politicians would act to prevent such use of 17th century powers again. There's a reason no monarch since flabby Anne has refused to sign a bill into law or used their prerogative outside the advice of the PM or in ceremonial use. As a Republican, go for it Liz.
I don't think Brenda would stick her gold plated oar in but if she did it would hasten the already inevitable end of the monarchy.
The monarch's end is far from inevitable, 68% of voters back the monarchy including an astonishing 61% on 18 to 24s.
The monarchy is far more popular than either the Tory of Labour parties in the UK and the Queen far more popular than either May or Corbyn
Whatever side of the argument we favour there is one thing on which I think we can all agree, it is proving hellish difficult to deliver on the wishes of the British people, as expressed in the Referendum of 2016, that the UK becomes an independent coastal state in charge of its own fish.
Parliament is blocking Leave with a deal. Parliament is blocking Leave without a deal. Ergo Parliament is blocking Leave. Remain then? Nein. Parliament will not Revoke and will not sanction another Referendum. Ergo Parliament is blocking Remain.
Leave or Remain, the binary 2016 choice, both are looking like unicorns.
OK, not to worry, because we can trade in this Parliament for a better model. Have a General Election. Mais non! Parliament blocks this too under the FTPA. We must wait until 2022.
Conclusion?
We need a solution which involves neither leaving nor not leaving the European Union and which lasts until 2022.
I suggest an induced coma.
Somebody should start a petition to get the Queen to decide the Brexit outcome.
She has more respect and is more trusted by the public than any politician.
No, the Queen should stay out of it, she remains popular as she does not take sides in political argument
Quite, If the queen gets involved it would be the beginning of the end of monarchy, politicians would act to prevent such use of 17th century powers again. There's a reason no monarch since flabby Anne has refused to sign a bill into law or used their prerogative outside the advice of the PM or in ceremonial use. As a Republican, go for it Liz.
I don't think Brenda would stick her gold plated oar in but if she did it would hasten the already inevitable end of the monarchy.
The monarch's end is far from inevitable, 68% of voters back the monarchy including an astonishing 61% on 18 to 24s.
The monarchy is far more popular than either the Tory of Labour parties in the UK and the Queen far more popular than either May or Corbyn
I can get it to pass the commons. A meaningful vote on 11th or 12th after the judgment of the summit where the forced option is pass the WA or it’s definitely a conscious no deal decoupling, that will ensure enough labour votes to pass it. It’s not even a gamble, it would certainly pass that forced choice.
Tick. If the EU are cruel to be kind and refuse an extension the WA will pass pronto. But will they do that? Or will they prefer to be kind to be cruel? I think the latter. If MPs do not pass the WA in the next few days we are going to be tormented with a long extension.
Petition = scooby gang solution to national crisis. Lots of terribly cross people naively believing in the power of crossness.
March = next tier scooby gang solution to national crisis. Lots of terribly cross people naively believing in the power of getting out of bed to show crossness.
Ultimate scooby is marching to number 10 to present a petition accompanied by a minor celebrity
...who then has to take it home, because number 10 won't accept it
Larry goes to sleep on it
Larry's litter tray!
Actually the most Scooby thing I ever heard was my philosophy lecturer coming in thd day Thstcher resigned and announcing 'we got her!' Great work comrade, great work
A reflection of the national mood. The whole country was smiling
Just amused me leftists taking credit for what the Tories had to do because they were too utterly useless to manage it. I suggested as much to a socialist worker salesman, he just insisted the revolution was coming. I got bored waiting by the millennium
Thornberry knows it. I dont like to suggest insincerity but more and more on Brexit I cannot believe on a number of issues that so many people do not understand things.
Therefore it is cover for cynical positioning. Davis, Johnson and go are the same so it's not a partisan point. And May and co did it too when trying to change a WA they knew and had said could not be changed.
I agree with you, it is hard to believe that MPs don't understand the basics of Brexit, that said we should not exclude the possibility that there really are about 400 or so very thick MPs in Parliament. It sure as hell would explain a lot.
I think you underestimate at 400, much higher I think.
How many of us here have been on Constituency Panels picking candidates? Or otherwise mixed with MP's. Rarely met one who could really be described as thick. Single-minded, unable to see anything outside their party interest perhaps.
There are some who are intellectually challenged (having met IDS I'd say he isn't particularly bright), but I agree the majority are intelligent in some way or other.
Yet something about being in the vicinity of Parliament, a journalist’s microphone and Twitter turns them into brainless simpletons incapable of rational, objective thought. It must be something rising from the Thames.
It's an interesting side effect of the last three years that Europhilia has now emerged as such a significant political force. Before 2016 those in favour of the EU were generally reluctant remainers, pragmatists primarily motivated by what they believed to be in the country's best interests. But their passions were not stirred by Brussels.
Now, we see EU flags everywhere, the 'ode to joy' being fervently sung in its original German, and Donald Tusk elevated to superhero status. Who know what the implications for our politics will be, but for sure the EU is now the salient issue for many more people than it used to be - and not in the direction one would have expected.
It's an interesting side effect of the last three years that Europhilia has now emerged as such a significant political force. Before 2016 those in favour of the EU were generally reluctant remainers, pragmatists primarily motivated by what they believed to be in the country's best interests. But their passions were not stirred by Brussels.
Now, we see EU flags everywhere, the 'ode to joy' being fervently sung in its original German, and Donald Tusk elevated to superhero status. Who know what the implications for our politics will be, but for sure the EU is now the salient issue for many more people than it used to be - and not in the direction one would have expected.
Amazing what the threat of slight inconvenience on holiday matters can do
It's an interesting side effect of the last three years that Europhilia has now emerged as such a significant political force. Before 2016 those in favour of the EU were generally reluctant remainers, pragmatists primarily motivated by what they believed to be in the country's best interests. But their passions were not stirred by Brussels.
Now, we see EU flags everywhere, the 'ode to joy' being fervently sung in its original German, and Donald Tusk elevated to superhero status. Who know what the implications for our politics will be, but for sure the EU is now the salient issue for many more people than it used to be - and not in the direction one would have expected.
Yes. The flags of the EU being proudly raised high in all directions away from Parliament Square as people dispersed from the march last week was an interesting surprise to me.
Thornberry knows it. I dont like to suggest insincerity but more and more on Brexit I cannot believe on a number of issues that so many people do not understand things.
Therefore it is cover for cynical positioning. Davis, Johnson and go are the same so it's not a partisan point. And May and co did it too when trying to change a WA they knew and had said could not be changed.
I agree with you, it is hard to believe that MPs don't understand the basics of Brexit, that said we should not exclude the possibility that there really are about 400 or so very thick MPs in Parliament. It sure as hell would explain a lot.
I think you underestimate at 400, much higher I think.
How many of us here have been on Constituency Panels picking candidates? Or otherwise mixed with MP's. Rarely met one who could really be described as thick. Single-minded, unable to see anything outside their party interest perhaps.
Well spineless , self seeking , no principles , sheep like , cannon fodder. Is that any better.
OK, malc, what you do in present circumstances?
I know, of course, that like me, you wouldn't have started from here!
OKC, admit it is a mess and revoke given they do not want the nuclear WTO option. Only party politics holding them back, a backbone and a choice of two options. Self interest will always take precedence with the Tories.
The only thing to note about the Revoke petition is that there are vast numbers of people who are completely unreconciled to the referendum result. That is important and rather than seeking to pooh pooh it, Leavers should ask themselves why they have completely failed to establish a consensus, even a grudging one, for their project.
Petition rate picking up now after it hit 6 million
Six million emails.
Personally I've got half a dozen emails I use regularly, and can create hundreds more at the drop of a hat.
Why would people faking signatures top out at six million? Why not take it all the way to 18 million?
How would they fake all the people talking about the petition in office kitchens all across the country (or at least London and other Remain strongholds)?
The petition is not a trump card that ends this debate in Remain's favour. Neither is it completely irrelevant.
You are fooling yourself with stories just as much as Remain supporters complaining about dodgy bus slogans. Is it really that damaging to your ego that six million people have signed a petition to Revoke that you have to lie to yourself to protect you from the truth?
Comments
She has more respect and is more trusted by the public than any politician.
Rarely met one who could really be described as thick. Single-minded, unable to see anything outside their party interest perhaps.
Hes not nailed on to retain his seat however
It’s all over. I expect May to go and see the Queen this afternoon.
Plenty of centrists have won in the US too e.g. Bush Snr and Bill Clinton
As a Republican, go for it Liz.
A lot of people who voted to leave are sick of it and just want it over with. 'Leave or stay, I no longer care', one said.
There's now a 3rd. petition, not just the Revoke and Ultra Remain ones, asking for an enquiry into the legality of the leave vote before Brexit takes place
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241848/
Remain 52%
Leave 48%
New social conservatives (UKIP): 27%
New social liberal (LD) 24%+4%
Labour around 22%
Conservative around 20%
Result was:
New social conservatives (UKIP): 98
New social liberal (LD) 121
Labour around 22% 241!
Conservative around 20% 115
Lab 85 short of overall majority
Coalition government Lab +LD 241+121
Just saying.
"But, I’m enjoying revelling in their disappointment that it keeps creeping up to 6 million but never quite gets there."
I salute your indefatigability.
But Spike was excellent.
"I couldn't help you. I was paralysed by not caring."
Maybe we could have Indonesians vote for us on whether we should Remain or Leave?
The monarchy is far more popular than either the Tory of Labour parties in the UK and the Queen far more popular than either May or Corbyn
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2015/09/08/monarchy-here-stay
I think there is a sizeable 3rd category though - people who are quite apolitical and shallow, who prefer these sorts of 'characters' to the standard politician because of the entertainment value.
Maybe we could have ourselves vote for us on whether we should Remain or Leave?
If politicians dismiss six million petition signatures completely then it will find a way to bite them on the arse later on.
( Heidi Allen is impressive)
Great work comrade, great work
https://www.thenational.scot/news/17538550.chaos-at-westminster-snp-mp-told-to-go-back-to-her-own-country/?ref=mr&lp=1
https://www.thenational.scot/news/scottish-independence/17526389.watch-tory-mps-shout-at-snp-to-go-home-to-scotland-during-brexit-debate/?ref=mc&lp=3
I know, of course, that like me, you wouldn't have started from here!
Personally I've got half a dozen emails I use regularly, and can create hundreds more at the drop of a hat.
But does this mean that Lumley should be the Queen?
I would say not.
But SportingBet did give me a £5 free bet, so I do stand to win £4. Every little helps
<<If labour are like 3 short, sure. If not they might as well ask the Greens>>
I think there's also a broader issue of reviving LD support in the southwest, and a ceiling on Corbyn seats. Unlikely as it may seem now, you may at some time see a kind of moderated Corbynism in alliance with both the Lib Dems and SNP.
(Though I think at this point they probably are more likely to be fake since those minded have probably already signed)
Anyway, Merkle watches whilst Macron asks, how does a GE actually solve your brexit problems?
how do you convincingly answer?
You can’t
enough death cap wearing as I pass sentence on chance for GE, here’s the answer to May’s brexit problem. She can’t say her compromise deals dead as a glue stick, she has to keep whipping it. Her deal is a compromise that prevents chaos. Once she admits defeat the party chaos begins.
I can get it to pass the commons. A meaningful vote on 11th or 12th after the judgment of the summit where the forced option is pass the WA or it’s definitely a conscious no deal decoupling, that will ensure enough labour votes to pass it. It’s not even a gamble, it would certainly pass that forced choice.
Is it mostly remainery types coming out to talk brexit today? What are the others up to...
What has she done with these chats over the last two years? Has she simply been exchanging recommendations for country walks with the PM? I know May gives the appearance of being incredibly stubborn, but I rather think that if HMQ had a personal plan to steer the country through this crisis she ought to have been able to persuade the PM of it.
HMQ's failure is written over Brexit as much as the Commons and the PM.
Anyway, I must be off. Let's hope the race is exciting and profitable.
Monarchy = Jobs for life
ergo:
Monarchy = Socialism
Pro free market = Liberalism
Pro monarchy and inherited wealth and the landed classes = Toryism
Now, we see EU flags everywhere, the 'ode to joy' being fervently sung in its original German, and Donald Tusk elevated to superhero status. Who know what the implications for our politics will be, but for sure the EU is now the salient issue for many more people than it used to be - and not in the direction one would have expected.
They won’t, of course.
How would they fake all the people talking about the petition in office kitchens all across the country (or at least London and other Remain strongholds)?
The petition is not a trump card that ends this debate in Remain's favour. Neither is it completely irrelevant.
You are fooling yourself with stories just as much as Remain supporters complaining about dodgy bus slogans. Is it really that damaging to your ego that six million people have signed a petition to Revoke that you have to lie to yourself to protect you from the truth?