45 years ago today Ted Heath left No 10 for the last time as PM and Harold Wilson began his second stint there! It really seems incredible that it is such a long time ago - it feels but a few years back.
Ah. Harold Wilson. That Blairite with his pathetic social democracy.
Wilson and Blair are the only Labour leaders to win an election in the last 65 years. In that time, seven Tories have won general elections, and six other Labour leaders have tried and failed (excluding Smith, who died before he contested an election).
For me, Wilson and Heath as contenders for government is ancient history - which is to say, I have no personal recollection of it. Presumably, other, younger people feel the same about the likes of John Major and Neil Kinnock.
Yes ,David, I am no doubt showing my age. I have always been blessed with a very good memory but there are times when the effects rather weigh on me as a curse!
Another over-priced high street restaurant chain in the doo doo.
Never even heard of either of these. Was Ed Miliband involved ?
You never seen a Giraffe? They are in most city centres...generic nothingness.
Nope, never seen a Giraffe ! Probably a reflection on how little (i.e. Almost never) I head into city centres
Ed's Easy Diner is a retro 50s US diner gimmick (there used to be one on Old Compton Street, then they spread - echoes of Patisserie Valerie there). Harmless enough.
Giraffe was utterly generic. Its appeal always mystified me.
To be honest her choice is hold the Tory Party OR the Union together - she can only do one of those and chances are neither.
Perhaps but you only have to read the comments of HYUFD or the other Conservative members to know how important "our precious union" is to them - it's part of their name, it's at the core of their identity.
The whole Ulster issue and all that has flowed from that is part of that problem - a different pro-Brexit Government might have sold Ulster down the river (with all that would flow) for the possibility of a clean break from the SM and the CU. May could not do that because she is a Unionist (possibly more than a Conservative).
So many of her public utterances have been about unity and bringing the nation together whereas a more ideologically minded Brexit Government wouldn't have worried about that.
Ultimately, the definition of a "good deal" is one that holds the Union and the Conservative Party together.
Your last sentence is the most important aspect of this to this member
G, you are happy to see the country ruined just to save the Tory party?
My conservative party is a one nation party, not the ERG wreckers
Another over-priced high street restaurant chain in the doo doo.
Never even heard of either of these. Was Ed Miliband involved ?
You never seen a Giraffe? They are in most city centres...generic nothingness.
Nope, never seen a Giraffe ! Probably a reflection on how little (i.e. Almost never) I head into city centres
Ed's Easy Diner is a retro 50s US diner gimmick (there used to be one on Old Compton Street, then they spread - echoes of Patisserie Valerie there). Harmless enough.
Giraffe was utterly generic. Its appeal always mystified me.
The only time I went into one was when the choice was extremely limited. If it's not one of those being closed I wouldn't go in again.
Another over-priced high street restaurant chain in the doo doo.
Never even heard of either of these. Was Ed Miliband involved ?
You never seen a Giraffe? They are in most city centres...generic nothingness.
Nope, never seen a Giraffe ! Probably a reflection on how little (i.e. Almost never) I head into city centres
Ed's Easy Diner is a retro 50s US diner gimmick (there used to be one on Old Compton Street, then they spread - echoes of Patisserie Valerie there). Harmless enough.
Giraffe was utterly generic. Its appeal always mystified me.
My guess would be that Giraffe gets a fair bit of trade as one of those type of places that is safe bet for a group meal. There is going to be something even for Keith from accounts that is lactose intolerant vegetarian who has a severe nut allergy.
Presumably also involves ditching Theresa, getting a Brexiteer leader, having another general election to get their majority back and potentially another referendum as well.
Seems like there's a lot that could go wrong when they could just vote for the deal and let us all move on...
Another over-priced high street restaurant chain in the doo doo.
Never even heard of either of these. Was Ed Miliband involved ?
You never seen a Giraffe? They are in most city centres...generic nothingness.
Nope, never seen a Giraffe ! Probably a reflection on how little (i.e. Almost never) I head into city centres
Ed's Easy Diner is a retro 50s US diner gimmick (there used to be one on Old Compton Street, then they spread - echoes of Patisserie Valerie there). Harmless enough.
Giraffe was utterly generic. Its appeal always mystified me.
Giraffe was owned for a while by Tesco as their initial attempt to fill their overlarge stores. It's family friendly world food so offers something for everyone.
Ed's was a great concept back in the early 90's (when it literally had one or two fronts). Nowadays other better burger bars are available.
To be honest her choice is hold the Tory Party OR the Union together - she can only do one of those and chances are neither.
Perhaps but you only have to read the comments of HYUFD or the other Conservative members to know how important "our precious union" is to them - it's part of their name, it's at the core of their identity.
The whole Ulster issue and all that has flowed from that is part of that problem - a different pro-Brexit Government might have sold Ulster down the river (with all that would flow) for the possibility of a clean break from the SM and the CU. May could not do that because she is a Unionist (possibly more than a Conservative).
So many of her public utterances have been about unity and bringing the nation together whereas a more ideologically minded Brexit Government wouldn't have worried about that.
Ultimately, the definition of a "good deal" is one that holds the Union and the Conservative Party together.
Your last sentence is the most important aspect of this to this member
G, you are happy to see the country ruined just to save the Tory party?
My conservative party is a one nation party, not the ERG wreckers
How does that work then Big G? How will I know which Conservative Party my local candidate belongs to?
My guess would be that Giraffe gets a fair bit of trade as one of those type of places that is safe bet for a group meal. There is going to be something even for Keith from accounts that is lactose intolerant vegetarian who has a severe nut allergy.
I would never voluntary choose to dine there.
The only one I have been in was the one in Exeter where the would be terrorist blew himself up
Another over-priced high street restaurant chain in the doo doo.
Never even heard of either of these. Was Ed Miliband involved ?
You never seen a Giraffe? They are in most city centres...generic nothingness.
Nope, never seen a Giraffe ! Probably a reflection on how little (i.e. Almost never) I head into city centres
Ed's Easy Diner is a retro 50s US diner gimmick (there used to be one on Old Compton Street, then they spread - echoes of Patisserie Valerie there). Harmless enough.
Giraffe was utterly generic. Its appeal always mystified me.
My guess would be that Giraffe gets a fair bit of trade as one of those type of places that is safe bet for a group meal. There is going to be something even for Keith from accounts that is lactose intolerant vegetarian who has a severe nut allergy.
I would never voluntary choose to dine there.
One doesn't dine there; one snacks or perhaps has a light lunch.
Another over-priced high street restaurant chain in the doo doo.
Never even heard of either of these. Was Ed Miliband involved ?
You never seen a Giraffe? They are in most city centres...generic nothingness.
Nope, never seen a Giraffe ! Probably a reflection on how little (i.e. Almost never) I head into city centres
Ed's Easy Diner is a retro 50s US diner gimmick (there used to be one on Old Compton Street, then they spread - echoes of Patisserie Valerie there). Harmless enough.
Giraffe was utterly generic. Its appeal always mystified me.
Giraffe was, I think, for families. Pasta for kids etc. No, I never went into one.
Hasn’t May just delivered a huge own goal . By offering this paltry sum as the figures show below these areas receive much more through EU funds .
It’s like she’s desperately trying to get another EU vote but doesn’t want to be blamed for it .
I hope she writes memoirs, it would be really interesting to know whether she's actually had a plan this whole time or whether she really is just taking the whole thing a day at a time.
Hasn’t May just delivered a huge own goal . By offering this paltry sum as the figures show below these areas receive much more through EU funds .
It’s like she’s desperately trying to get another EU vote but doesn’t want to be blamed for it .
That is the conclusion I've finally reached this morning. A Deal / Remain referendum where most Labour leave constituency MPs can focus on the amount the EU gives those regions may be the best outcome...
For me, Wilson and Heath as contenders for government is ancient history - which is to say, I have no personal recollection of it. Presumably, other, younger people feel the same about the likes of John Major and Neil Kinnock.
For me Wilson seems like ancient history but Heath doesn't. Though Thatcher was the first PM in office that I remember (being born in 1974), Heath was still very much a very active public figure in the years I was becoming politically aware so, oddly perhaps, he feels much more modern to me than Wilson or even Callaghan.
To be honest her choice is hold the Tory Party OR the Union together - she can only do one of those and chances are neither.
Perhaps but you only have to read the comments of HYUFD or the other Conservative members to know how important "our precious union" is to them - it's part of their name, it's at the core of their identity.
The whole Ulster issue and all that has flowed from that is part of that problem - a different pro-Brexit Government might have sold Ulster down the river (with all that would flow) for the possibility of a clean break from the SM and the CU. May could not do that because she is a Unionist (possibly more than a Conservative).
So many of her public utterances have been about unity and bringing the nation together whereas a more ideologically minded Brexit Government wouldn't have worried about that.
Ultimately, the definition of a "good deal" is one that holds the Union and the Conservative Party together.
Your last sentence is the most important aspect of this to this member
G, you are happy to see the country ruined just to save the Tory party?
My conservative party is a one nation party, not the ERG wreckers
Your conservative party no longer exists.
I think (or hope) the time for that judgement is after the next leadership election. Also after the establishment and population of any new parties (Tigs, Farage etc), as they will all have an effect on the remaining balance, which will effect the choice of leader.
Amazing how, despite the oodles of information about how shit leaving the EU is, that ultimately the argument “Brussels was offering you £X, May is only offering you £Y” is one that seems to be cutting through.
Amazing how, despite the oodles of information about how shit leaving the EU is, that ultimately the argument “Brussels was offering you £X, May is only offering you £Y” is one that seems to be cutting through.
"Cutting through" meaning "journalists have been getting excited about it all morning"?
Amazing how, despite the oodles of information about how shit leaving the EU is, that ultimately the argument “Brussels was offering you £X, May is only offering you £Y” is one that seems to be cutting through.
Amazing how, despite the oodles of information about how shit leaving the EU is, that ultimately the argument “Brussels was offering you £X, May is only offering you £Y” is one that seems to be cutting through.
"Cutting through" meaning "journalists have been getting excited about it all morning"?
No it will cut through as it's easy to understand - I road tested it on a second cousin earlier today - believe me they would now vote remain next time around.
Amazing how, despite the oodles of information about how shit leaving the EU is, that ultimately the argument “Brussels was offering you £X, May is only offering you £Y” is one that seems to be cutting through.
"Cutting through" meaning "journalists have been getting excited about it all morning"?
Yep. And Labour MPs. Of course we don’t know what the actual electorate thinks, it’s true.
Presumably also involves ditching Theresa, getting a Brexiteer leader, having another general election to get their majority back and potentially another referendum as well.
Seems like there's a lot that could go wrong when they could just vote for the deal and let us all move on...
But voting for the deal would involve them taking responsibility for its failure to deliver the Brexit they promised. Much more comfortable for them to keep themselves pure and spend the rest of their careers ranting about betrayal and treachery.
Amazing how, despite the oodles of information about how shit leaving the EU is, that ultimately the argument “Brussels was offering you £X, May is only offering you £Y” is one that seems to be cutting through.
For me, Wilson and Heath as contenders for government is ancient history - which is to say, I have no personal recollection of it. Presumably, other, younger people feel the same about the likes of John Major and Neil Kinnock.
For me Wilson seems like ancient history but Heath doesn't. Though Thatcher was the first PM in office that I remember (being born in 1974), Heath was still very much a very active public figure in the years I was becoming politically aware so, oddly perhaps, he feels much more modern to me than Wilson or even Callaghan.
That is a fair point re- Heath. I have to accept the sad reality that 60% - 65% of people now living are unlikely to retain a memory of Wilson and Heath being in office as PM - indeed 40% will not remember Thatcher in office!
Another over-priced high street restaurant chain in the doo doo.
I went to see Green Book on Saturday, but all the restaurants nearby were booked solid, so not doing badly on a Saturday night. Even the fake US Junkfood places like Frankie and Benny's.
Green Book was OK, but if you have seen the trailer then you have seen the whole film.
Except the EU will likely only grant a 21 month extension in return for EUref2, so the Commons would vote for EUref2 Remain v Deal to avoid No Deal and the ERG might end up with No Brexit at all
Another over-priced high street restaurant chain in the doo doo.
I went to see Green Book on Saturday, but all the restaurants nearby were booked solid, so not doing badly on a Saturday night. Even the fake US Junkfood places like Frankie and Benny's.
Green Book was OK, but if you have seen the trailer then you have seen the whole film.
The Restaurant Group that owns Frankie and Benny's is another in deep doo doo. Some crazy fools have then gone and lent them a shed load of cash to buy Wagamama, which is still doing ok. Given their track record, give it 5 years and they will probably manage to torpedo Wagamama when the whole house of cards falls down.
Amazing how, despite the oodles of information about how shit leaving the EU is, that ultimately the argument “Brussels was offering you £X, May is only offering you £Y” is one that seems to be cutting through.
Not really. It is just the bus claim, stood on its head, or rather put the right way up. We know how well that worked.
Can't see too many Lab MPs going along with May's Deal after this morning.
Unless it is a whipped vote on a deal to put Deal/Remain to 2nd vote.
Well yes, though that was also true yesterday, last week, last month, last year...
I think it's killed off any chance of May's Deal going through untouched. The best we now get is a requirement for a referendum amendment with Labour then abstaining on the final vote,
Remember no one wants responsibility for any of this so an approach like that makes everyone equally responsible for the referendum....
I went to see Green Book on Saturday, but all the restaurants nearby were booked solid, so not doing badly on a Saturday night. Even the fake US Junkfood places like Frankie and Benny's.
Green Book was OK, but if you have seen the trailer then you have seen the whole film.
The Restaurant Group that owns Frankie and Benny's is another in deep doo doo. Some crazy fools have then gone and lent them a shed load of cash to buy Wagamama, which is still doing ok.
I do not understand Wagamamas. It appears to be a naff throwback to the 90s. Would not be out of place to find a pic of Blair meeting Oasis at Downing Street in the loos.
So one of the remainer arguments for being in the EU was that they were good at bribing us with our own money in providing regional funds (and bungs for farmers, natch). The government's response to this at 5 to midnight and having lost several important votes by epic margins is to introduce alternative funding but on a much lower scale than that which is being lost.
Surely no one who actually wants to leave could possibly be responsible for this? For the umpteeth time it is so far beyond incompetence as to be out of sight. Did someone ask Grayling for advice?
I went to see Green Book on Saturday, but all the restaurants nearby were booked solid, so not doing badly on a Saturday night. Even the fake US Junkfood places like Frankie and Benny's.
Green Book was OK, but if you have seen the trailer then you have seen the whole film.
The Restaurant Group that owns Frankie and Benny's is another in deep doo doo. Some crazy fools have then gone and lent them a shed load of cash to buy Wagamama, which is still doing ok.
I do not understand Wagamamas. It appears to be a naff throwback to the 90s. Would not be out of place to find a pic of Blair meeting Oasis at Downing Street in the loos.
Presumably also involves ditching Theresa, getting a Brexiteer leader, having another general election to get their majority back and potentially another referendum as well.
Seems like there's a lot that could go wrong when they could just vote for the deal and let us all move on...
Another way of looking at it is that March 2019 is the last month that the UK actually can leave the EU. If the 'opportunity' isn't taken it is very unlikely to come again.
I went to see Green Book on Saturday, but all the restaurants nearby were booked solid, so not doing badly on a Saturday night. Even the fake US Junkfood places like Frankie and Benny's.
Green Book was OK, but if you have seen the trailer then you have seen the whole film.
The Restaurant Group that owns Frankie and Benny's is another in deep doo doo. Some crazy fools have then gone and lent them a shed load of cash to buy Wagamama, which is still doing ok.
I do not understand Wagamamas. It appears to be a naff throwback to the 90s. Would not be out of place to find a pic of Blair meeting Oasis at Downing Street in the loos.
So one of the remainer arguments for being in the EU was that they were good at bribing us with our own money in providing regional funds (and bungs for farmers, natch). The government's response to this at 5 to midnight and having lost several important votes by epic margins is to introduce alternative funding but on a much lower scale than that which is being lost.
Surely no one who actually wants to leave could possibly be responsible for this? For the umpteeth time it is so far beyond incompetence as to be out of sight. Did someone ask Grayling for advice?
It can only be incompetence, we think people are far more cunning and deceptive than they actually are.
While a lot of people see conspiracy 99 times out of a 100 incompetency and trying to cover up said mistake is far more likely.
So one of the remainer arguments for being in the EU was that they were good at bribing us with our own money in providing regional funds (and bungs for farmers, natch). The government's response to this at 5 to midnight and having lost several important votes by epic margins is to introduce alternative funding but on a much lower scale than that which is being lost.
Surely no one who actually wants to leave could possibly be responsible for this? For the umpteeth time it is so far beyond incompetence as to be out of sight. Did someone ask Grayling for advice?
It’s not a Remainer argument that the EU was “good at bribing us with our own money”, however it is true that the EU maintains a modestly redistributive regional development policy - the sort of thing which has been taboo in this country since the 1970s, and certainly under the Tories.
Anyone who didn’t see this coming has not been paying attention.
I went to see Green Book on Saturday, but all the restaurants nearby were booked solid, so not doing badly on a Saturday night. Even the fake US Junkfood places like Frankie and Benny's.
Green Book was OK, but if you have seen the trailer then you have seen the whole film.
The Restaurant Group that owns Frankie and Benny's is another in deep doo doo. Some crazy fools have then gone and lent them a shed load of cash to buy Wagamama, which is still doing ok.
I do not understand Wagamamas. It appears to be a naff throwback to the 90s. Would not be out of place to find a pic of Blair meeting Oasis at Downing Street in the loos.
I quite like Wagamamas, at least the Ramen are good, and the service fairly quick.
So one of the remainer arguments for being in the EU was that they were good at bribing us with our own money in providing regional funds (and bungs for farmers, natch). The government's response to this at 5 to midnight and having lost several important votes by epic margins is to introduce alternative funding but on a much lower scale than that which is being lost.
Surely no one who actually wants to leave could possibly be responsible for this? For the umpteeth time it is so far beyond incompetence as to be out of sight. Did someone ask Grayling for advice?
You would at least expect politicians to be competent at politics, if nothing else.
So one of the remainer arguments for being in the EU was that they were good at bribing us with our own money in providing regional funds (and bungs for farmers, natch). The government's response to this at 5 to midnight and having lost several important votes by epic margins is to introduce alternative funding but on a much lower scale than that which is being lost.
Surely no one who actually wants to leave could possibly be responsible for this? For the umpteeth time it is so far beyond incompetence as to be out of sight. Did someone ask Grayling for advice?
It’s not a Remainer argument that the EU was “good at bribing us with our own money”, however it is true that the EU maintains a modestly redistributive regional development policy - the sort of thing which has been taboo in this country since the 1970s, and certainly under the Tories.
Anyone who didn’t see this coming has not been paying attention.
Anyone who didn't mention it as part of their campaign to remain deserves all the abuse they get in retirement.
So one of the remainer arguments for being in the EU was that they were good at bribing us with our own money in providing regional funds (and bungs for farmers, natch). The government's response to this at 5 to midnight and having lost several important votes by epic margins is to introduce alternative funding but on a much lower scale than that which is being lost.
Surely no one who actually wants to leave could possibly be responsible for this? For the umpteeth time it is so far beyond incompetence as to be out of sight. Did someone ask Grayling for advice?
It’s not a Remainer argument that the EU was “good at bribing us with our own money”, however it is true that the EU maintains a modestly redistributive regional development policy - the sort of thing which has been taboo in this country since the 1970s, and certainly under the Tories.
Anyone who didn’t see this coming has not been paying attention.
There is massive redistribution from richer to poorer regions in the UK. @Alistair Meeks gets very exercised by it.
Can't see too many Lab MPs going along with May's Deal after this morning.
Unless it is a whipped vote on a deal to put Deal/Remain to 2nd vote.
Well yes, though that was also true yesterday, last week, last month, last year...
I think it's killed off any chance of May's Deal going through untouched. The best we now get is a requirement for a referendum amendment with Labour then abstaining on the final vote,
Remember no one wants responsibility for any of this so an approach like that makes everyone equally responsible for the referendum....
I think the Kyle amendment for EUref2, Deal v Remain, is already close to 300 votes now Labour have backed EUref2.
If May's Deal fails again I expect about 50 Tory MPs ie Rudd, Burt, Soames, Letwin, Clarke, Boles, Gauke etc to say they will switch from backing the Deal to EUref2 as a last resort to avoid No Deal. That gives 350 MPs for EUref2 and it passes the Commons along with Art 50 extension.
That will place a gun to the head of the ERG ie back May's Deal or risk no Brexit at all, most of them will cave and back the Deal and it could then scrape home with the support of a few Labour MPs in Leave seats too
So one of the remainer arguments for being in the EU was that they were good at bribing us with our own money in providing regional funds (and bungs for farmers, natch). The government's response to this at 5 to midnight and having lost several important votes by epic margins is to introduce alternative funding but on a much lower scale than that which is being lost.
Surely no one who actually wants to leave could possibly be responsible for this? For the umpteeth time it is so far beyond incompetence as to be out of sight. Did someone ask Grayling for advice?
It’s not a Remainer argument that the EU was “good at bribing us with our own money”, however it is true that the EU maintains a modestly redistributive regional development policy - the sort of thing which has been taboo in this country since the 1970s, and certainly under the Tories.
Anyone who didn’t see this coming has not been paying attention.
There is massive redistribution from richer to poorer regions in the UK. @Alistair Meeks gets very exercised by it.
I suppose the EU giving a lot of money to London is like the capital's very own rebate.
Can't see too many Lab MPs going along with May's Deal after this morning.
Unless it is a whipped vote on a deal to put Deal/Remain to 2nd vote.
Well yes, though that was also true yesterday, last week, last month, last year...
I think it's killed off any chance of May's Deal going through untouched. The best we now get is a requirement for a referendum amendment with Labour then abstaining on the final vote,
Remember no one wants responsibility for any of this so an approach like that makes everyone equally responsible for the referendum....
I think the Kyle amendment for EUref2, Deal v Remain, is already close to 300 votes now Labour have backed EUref2.
If May's Deal fails again I expect about 50 Tory MPs ie Rudd, Burt, Soames, Letwin, Clarke, Boles, Gauke etc to say they will switch from backing the Deal to EUref2 as a last resort to avoid No Deal. That gives 350 MPs for EUref2 and it passes the Commons.
That will place a gun to the head of the ERG ie back May's Deal or risk no Brexit at all, most of them will cave and back the Deal and it could then scrape home with the support of a few Labour MPs in Leave seats too
Assuming that the ERG actually do support Brexit (something which I now question).
Can't see too many Lab MPs going along with May's Deal after this morning.
Unless it is a whipped vote on a deal to put Deal/Remain to 2nd vote.
Well yes, though that was also true yesterday, last week, last month, last year...
I think it's killed off any chance of May's Deal going through untouched. The best we now get is a requirement for a referendum amendment with Labour then abstaining on the final vote,
Remember no one wants responsibility for any of this so an approach like that makes everyone equally responsible for the referendum....
I think the Kyle amendment for EUref2, Deal v Remain, is already close to 300 votes now Labour have backed EUref2.
If May's Deal fails again I expect about 50 Tory MPs ie Rudd, Burt, Soames, Letwin, Clarke, Boles, Gauke etc to say they will switch from backing the Deal to EUref2 as a last resort to avoid No Deal. That gives 350 MPs for EUref2 and it passes the Commons.
That will place a gun to the head of the ERG ie back May's Deal or risk no Brexit at all, most of them will cave and back the Deal and it could then scrape home with the support of a few Labour MPs in Leave seats too
So your prediction is that May's deal will pass next week with ERG support?
So one of the remainer arguments for being in the EU was that they were good at bribing us with our own money in providing regional funds (and bungs for farmers, natch). The government's response to this at 5 to midnight and having lost several important votes by epic margins is to introduce alternative funding but on a much lower scale than that which is being lost.
Surely no one who actually wants to leave could possibly be responsible for this? For the umpteeth time it is so far beyond incompetence as to be out of sight. Did someone ask Grayling for advice?
It’s not a Remainer argument that the EU was “good at bribing us with our own money”, however it is true that the EU maintains a modestly redistributive regional development policy - the sort of thing which has been taboo in this country since the 1970s, and certainly under the Tories.
Anyone who didn’t see this coming has not been paying attention.
There is massive redistribution from richer to poorer regions in the UK. @Alistair Meeks gets very exercised by it.
Yes and no. Alistair is right of course that London pays a massive amount to the Exchequer which is then recycled via general government spending and especially the welfare system, around the country.
But there’s very little systematic attempt to encourage regional economic development.
So one of the remainer arguments for being in the EU was that they were good at bribing us with our own money in providing regional funds (and bungs for farmers, natch). The government's response to this at 5 to midnight and having lost several important votes by epic margins is to introduce alternative funding but on a much lower scale than that which is being lost.
Surely no one who actually wants to leave could possibly be responsible for this? For the umpteeth time it is so far beyond incompetence as to be out of sight. Did someone ask Grayling for advice?
You would at least expect politicians to be competent at politics, if nothing else.
The evidence is somewhat to the contrary, certainly in recent years.
So one of the remainer arguments for being in the EU was that they were good at bribing us with our own money in providing regional funds (and bungs for farmers, natch). The government's response to this at 5 to midnight and having lost several important votes by epic margins is to introduce alternative funding but on a much lower scale than that which is being lost.
Surely no one who actually wants to leave could possibly be responsible for this? For the umpteeth time it is so far beyond incompetence as to be out of sight. Did someone ask Grayling for advice?
It’s not a Remainer argument that the EU was “good at bribing us with our own money”, however it is true that the EU maintains a modestly redistributive regional development policy - the sort of thing which has been taboo in this country since the 1970s, and certainly under the Tories.
Anyone who didn’t see this coming has not been paying attention.
There is massive redistribution from richer to poorer regions in the UK. @Alistair Meeks gets very exercised by it.
Yes and no. Alistair is right of course that London pays a massive amount to the Exchequer which is then recycled via general government spending and especially the welfare system, around the country.
But there’s very little systematic attempt to encourage regional economic development.
Osborne closed down what there was when he chopped the RDAs.
So one of the remainer arguments for being in the EU was that they were good at bribing us with our own money in providing regional funds (and bungs for farmers, natch). The government's response to this at 5 to midnight and having lost several important votes by epic margins is to introduce alternative funding but on a much lower scale than that which is being lost.
Surely no one who actually wants to leave could possibly be responsible for this? For the umpteeth time it is so far beyond incompetence as to be out of sight. Did someone ask Grayling for advice?
It can only be incompetence, we think people are far more cunning and deceptive than they actually are.
While a lot of people see conspiracy 99 times out of a 100 incompetency and trying to cover up said mistake is far more likely.
That's a good point. And the 1 time in 100 where it works only occurs when Bismarck himself was involved in setting it up.
So one of the remainer arguments for being in the EU was that they were good at bribing us with our own money in providing regional funds (and bungs for farmers, natch). The government's response to this at 5 to midnight and having lost several important votes by epic margins is to introduce alternative funding but on a much lower scale than that which is being lost.
Surely no one who actually wants to leave could possibly be responsible for this? For the umpteeth time it is so far beyond incompetence as to be out of sight. Did someone ask Grayling for advice?
It’s not a Remainer argument that the EU was “good at bribing us with our own money”, however it is true that the EU maintains a modestly redistributive regional development policy - the sort of thing which has been taboo in this country since the 1970s, and certainly under the Tories.
Anyone who didn’t see this coming has not been paying attention.
There is massive redistribution from richer to poorer regions in the UK. @Alistair Meeks gets very exercised by it.
Yes and no. Alistair is right of course that London pays a massive amount to the Exchequer which is then recycled via general government spending and especially the welfare system, around the country.
But there’s very little systematic attempt to encourage regional economic development.
Aren't business rates a lot lower outside of London and the South East?
Except the EU will likely only grant a 21 month extension in return for EUref2, so the Commons would vote for EUref2 Remain v Deal to avoid No Deal and the ERG might end up with No Brexit at all
I think the EU is unlikely to attach formal conditions to any extension. This would be an obvious gift to those who accuse it of imperialist overreach. If an extension is agreed, and it does look as though this is going to happen now, I expect it to be long, perhaps even indefinite, with regular review points and the UK will be able to leave at any point when a deal is agreed. Although the chances of a deal actually being agreed this side of an election or referendum are slim.
So one of the remainer arguments for being in the EU was that they were good at bribing us with our own money in providing regional funds (and bungs for farmers, natch). The government's response to this at 5 to midnight and having lost several important votes by epic margins is to introduce alternative funding but on a much lower scale than that which is being lost.
Surely no one who actually wants to leave could possibly be responsible for this? For the umpteeth time it is so far beyond incompetence as to be out of sight. Did someone ask Grayling for advice?
It’s not a Remainer argument that the EU was “good at bribing us with our own money”, however it is true that the EU maintains a modestly redistributive regional development policy - the sort of thing which has been taboo in this country since the 1970s, and certainly under the Tories.
Anyone who didn’t see this coming has not been paying attention.
There is massive redistribution from richer to poorer regions in the UK. @Alistair Meeks gets very exercised by it.
Yes and no. Alistair is right of course that London pays a massive amount to the Exchequer which is then recycled via general government spending and especially the welfare system, around the country.
But there’s very little systematic attempt to encourage regional economic development.
Osborne closed down what there was when he chopped the RDAs.
Then he read a bit of economic research and so supported the Northern Powerhouse stuff.
So one of the remainer arguments for being in the EU was that they were good at bribing us with our own money in providing regional funds (and bungs for farmers, natch). The government's response to this at 5 to midnight and having lost several important votes by epic margins is to introduce alternative funding but on a much lower scale than that which is being lost.
Surely no one who actually wants to leave could possibly be responsible for this? For the umpteeth time it is so far beyond incompetence as to be out of sight. Did someone ask Grayling for advice?
It can only be incompetence, we think people are far more cunning and deceptive than they actually are.
While a lot of people see conspiracy 99 times out of a 100 incompetency and trying to cover up said mistake is far more likely.
Or, more likely, this is not comparing like with like and the redistributive policies of the government have already taken this into account in their regional grants and this is some extra money on top. But the politics are truly appalling. Again.
Can't see too many Lab MPs going along with May's Deal after this morning.
Unless it is a whipped vote on a deal to put Deal/Remain to 2nd vote.
Well yes, though that was also true yesterday, last week, last month, last year...
I think it's killed off any chance of May's Deal going through untouched. The best we now get is a requirement for a referendum amendment with Labour then abstaining on the final vote,
Remember no one wants responsibility for any of this so an approach like that makes everyone equally responsible for the referendum....
I think the Kyle amendment for EUref2, Deal v Remain, is already close to 300 votes now Labour have backed EUref2.
If May's Deal fails again I expect about 50 Tory MPs ie Rudd, Burt, Soames, Letwin, Clarke, Boles, Gauke etc to say they will switch from backing the Deal to EUref2 as a last resort to avoid No Deal. That gives 350 MPs for EUref2 and it passes the Commons.
That will place a gun to the head of the ERG ie back May's Deal or risk no Brexit at all, most of them will cave and back the Deal and it could then scrape home with the support of a few Labour MPs in Leave seats too
So your prediction is that May's deal will pass next week with ERG support?
The executive do not have to action such a vote result. If ministers recommend that Royal Consent not be given then any action arising from such a vote is dead. The PM can drive us off the cliff if she wants and there is nothing that can be done to stop her. Except she won't.
Can't see too many Lab MPs going along with May's Deal after this morning.
Unless it is a whipped vote on a deal to put Deal/Remain to 2nd vote.
Well yes, though that was also true yesterday, last week, last month, last year...
I think it's killed off any chance of May's Deal going through untouched. The best we now get is a requirement for a referendum amendment with Labour then abstaining on the final vote,
Remember no one wants responsibility for any of this so an approach like that makes everyone equally responsible for the referendum....
I think the Kyle amendment for EUref2, Deal v Remain, is already close to 300 votes now Labour have backed EUref2.
If May's Deal fails again I expect about 50 Tory MPs ie Rudd, Burt, Soames, Letwin, Clarke, Boles, Gauke etc to say they will switch from backing the Deal to EUref2 as a last resort to avoid No Deal. That gives 350 MPs for EUref2 and it passes the Commons.
That will place a gun to the head of the ERG ie back May's Deal or risk no Brexit at all, most of them will cave and back the Deal and it could then scrape home with the support of a few Labour MPs in Leave seats too
Assuming that the ERG actually do support Brexit (something which I now question).
A few diehards like Bone and Redwood and Chope will not vote for anything but the purest of Brexits but there are only about 20 of them, most of the ERG prefer any Brexit to no Brexit at all
So one of the remainer arguments for being in the EU was that they were good at bribing us with our own money in providing regional funds (and bungs for farmers, natch). The government's response to this at 5 to midnight and having lost several important votes by epic margins is to introduce alternative funding but on a much lower scale than that which is being lost.
Surely no one who actually wants to leave could possibly be responsible for this? For the umpteeth time it is so far beyond incompetence as to be out of sight. Did someone ask Grayling for advice?
It’s not a Remainer argument that the EU was “good at bribing us with our own money”, however it is true that the EU maintains a modestly redistributive regional development policy - the sort of thing which has been taboo in this country since the 1970s, and certainly under the Tories.
Anyone who didn’t see this coming has not been paying attention.
There is massive redistribution from richer to poorer regions in the UK. @Alistair Meeks gets very exercised by it.
Yes and no. Alistair is right of course that London pays a massive amount to the Exchequer which is then recycled via general government spending and especially the welfare system, around the country.
But there’s very little systematic attempt to encourage regional economic development.
Aren't business rates a lot lower outside of London and the South East?
Labour and land prices are already low (comparatively) compared to London. It is not cost relief that the regions need; it is investment.
Can't see too many Lab MPs going along with May's Deal after this morning.
Unless it is a whipped vote on a deal to put Deal/Remain to 2nd vote.
Well yes, though that was also true yesterday, last week, last month, last year...
I think it's killed off any chance of May's Deal going through untouched. The best we now get is a requirement for a referendum amendment with Labour then abstaining on the final vote,
Remember no one wants responsibility for any of this so an approach like that makes everyone equally responsible for the referendum....
I think the Kyle amendment for EUref2, Deal v Remain, is already close to 300 votes now Labour have backed EUref2.
If May's Deal fails again I expect about 50 Tory MPs ie Rudd, Burt, Soames, Letwin, Clarke, Boles, Gauke etc to say they will switch from backing the Deal to EUref2 as a last resort to avoid No Deal. That gives 350 MPs for EUref2 and it passes the Commons.
That will place a gun to the head of the ERG ie back May's Deal or risk no Brexit at all, most of them will cave and back the Deal and it could then scrape home with the support of a few Labour MPs in Leave seats too
So your prediction is that May's deal will pass next week with ERG support?
No, May's Deal will likely fail next week but after the Commons then votes overwhelmingly against No Deal and for extension of Article 50 and EUref2 looks very possible the Deal will pass on a third vote to avoid No Brexit at all
Can't see too many Lab MPs going along with May's Deal after this morning.
Unless it is a whipped vote on a deal to put Deal/Remain to 2nd vote.
Well yes, though that was also true yesterday, last week, last month, last year...
I think it's killed off any chance of May's Deal going through untouched. The best we now get is a requirement for a referendum amendment with Labour then abstaining on the final vote,
Remember no one wants responsibility for any of this so an approach like that makes everyone equally responsible for the referendum....
I think the Kyle amendment for EUref2, Deal v Remain, is already close to 300 votes now Labour have backed EUref2.
If May's Deal fails again I expect about 50 Tory MPs ie Rudd, Burt, Soames, Letwin, Clarke, Boles, Gauke etc to say they will switch from backing the Deal to EUref2 as a last resort to avoid No Deal. That gives 350 MPs for EUref2 and it passes the Commons.
That will place a gun to the head of the ERG ie back May's Deal or risk no Brexit at all, most of them will cave and back the Deal and it could then scrape home with the support of a few Labour MPs in Leave seats too
So your prediction is that May's deal will pass next week with ERG support?
The executive do not have to action such a vote result. If ministers recommend that Royal Consent not be given then any action arising from such a vote is dead. The PM can drive us off the cliff if she wants and there is nothing that can be done to stop her. Except she won't.
So one of the remainer arguments for being in the EU was that they were good at bribing us with our own money in providing regional funds (and bungs for farmers, natch). The government's response to this at 5 to midnight and having lost several important votes by epic margins is to introduce alternative funding but on a much lower scale than that which is being lost.
Surely no one who actually wants to leave could possibly be responsible for this? For the umpteeth time it is so far beyond incompetence as to be out of sight. Did someone ask Grayling for advice?
You would at least expect politicians to be competent at politics, if nothing else.
The evidence is somewhat to the contrary, certainly in recent years.
You might expect politicians to be bad at administration or long range planning, or to be venial or self-serving, or to be ignorant and lazy.
But, you would have thought that the actual business of low politics is something they could manage. If you've got 20 or so opposition MP's who have indicated that they might vote with the government, you would have thought that the PM would be doing everything to win them over, and offering them something worthwhile for their votes.
Oh, let them have their fun. If a good-natured little contest to see who can have the most predictably, tediously elitist opinion on food chains is what it takes to brighten their day, then why begrudge them?
Except the EU will likely only grant a 21 month extension in return for EUref2, so the Commons would vote for EUref2 Remain v Deal to avoid No Deal and the ERG might end up with No Brexit at all
I think the EU is unlikely to attach formal conditions to any extension. This would be an obvious gift to those who accuse it of imperialist overreach. If an extension is agreed, and it does look as though this is going to happen now, I expect it to be long, perhaps even indefinite, with regular review points and the UK will be able to leave at any point when a deal is agreed. Although the chances of a deal actually being agreed this side of an election or referendum are slim.
Macron etc will likely demand EUref2 even if Barnier does not for a 21 month extension and the Commons would vote for EUref2 over No Deal
Can't see too many Lab MPs going along with May's Deal after this morning.
Unless it is a whipped vote on a deal to put Deal/Remain to 2nd vote.
Well yes, though that was also true yesterday, last week, last month, last year...
I think it's killed off any chance of May's Deal going through untouched. The best we now get is a requirement for a referendum amendment with Labour then abstaining on the final vote,
Remember no one wants responsibility for any of this so an approach like that makes everyone equally responsible for the referendum....
I think the Kyle amendment for EUref2, Deal v Remain, is already close to 300 votes now Labour have backed EUref2.
If May's Deal fails again I expect about 50 Tory MPs ie Rudd, Burt, Soames, Letwin, Clarke, Boles, Gauke etc to say they will switch from backing the Deal to EUref2 as a last resort to avoid No Deal. That gives 350 MPs for EUref2 and it passes the Commons.
That will place a gun to the head of the ERG ie back May's Deal or risk no Brexit at all, most of them will cave and back the Deal and it could then scrape home with the support of a few Labour MPs in Leave seats too
So your prediction is that May's deal will pass next week with ERG support?
No, May's Deal will likely fail next week but after the Commons then votes overwhelmingly against No Deal and for extension of Article 50 and EUref2 looks very possible the Deal will pass on a third vote to avoid No Brexit at all
And will there be a vote on an amendment to attach a referendum to the deal before the third vote?
My daughter really likes Nandos despite being a vegetarian. She likes their beanie wraps and their chips. Personally, I'd be happy never to visit again.
Oh, let them have their fun. If a good-natured little contest to see who can have the most predictably, tediously elitist opinion on food chains is what it takes to brighten their day, then why begrudge them?
We can always move on to talking about why the new Samsung S10 is far superior to the iPhone?
So one of the remainer arguments for being in the EU was that they were good at bribing us with our own money in providing regional funds (and bungs for farmers, natch). The government's response to this at 5 to midnight and having lost several important votes by epic margins is to introduce alternative funding but on a much lower scale than that which is being lost.
Surely no one who actually wants to leave could possibly be responsible for this? For the umpteeth time it is so far beyond incompetence as to be out of sight. Did someone ask Grayling for advice?
It’s not a Remainer argument that the EU was “good at bribing us with our own money”, however it is true that the EU maintains a modestly redistributive regional development policy - the sort of thing which has been taboo in this country since the 1970s, and certainly under the Tories.
Anyone who didn’t see this coming has not been paying attention.
There is massive redistribution from richer to poorer regions in the UK. @Alistair Meeks gets very exercised by it.
Yes and no. Alistair is right of course that London pays a massive amount to the Exchequer which is then recycled via general government spending and especially the welfare system, around the country.
But there’s very little systematic attempt to encourage regional economic development.
Osborne closed down what there was when he chopped the RDAs.
Then he read a bit of economic research and so supported the Northern Powerhouse stuff.
Which May promptly shut down.
The Northern powerhouse was one of the three Tory initiatives I strongly supported. The other two were elected police commissioners, which I still like but concede have been a flop. The third was joining the Common Market. I am still optimistic that that one will come through.
Oh, let them have their fun. If a good-natured little contest to see who can have the most predictably, tediously elitist opinion on food chains is what it takes to brighten their day, then why begrudge them?
I don’t mind Nando’s. Nando’s has personality, spice, and makes no pretences.
I also used to like Wetherspoons but can obviously no longer go there for political reasons.
Oh, let them have their fun. If a good-natured little contest to see who can have the most predictably, tediously elitist opinion on food chains is what it takes to brighten their day, then why begrudge them?
Indeed. If the worst thing you can say is that you have to stand up and go t the counter to place your order ... oh my God the horrors. #firstworldeliteproblems
Oh, let them have their fun. If a good-natured little contest to see who can have the most predictably, tediously elitist opinion on food chains is what it takes to brighten their day, then why begrudge them?
I don’t mind Nando’s. Nando’s has personality, spice and makes no pretences.
I also used to like Wetherspoons but can obviously no longer go there for political reasons.
I presume by political reasons you mean their decision to remove the traditional Sunday lunch from the menu?
Can't see too many Lab MPs going along with May's Deal after this morning.
Unless it is a whipped vote on a deal to put Deal/Remain to 2nd vote.
Well yes, though that was also true yesterday, last week, last month, last year...
I think it's killed off any chance of May's Deal going through untouched. The best we now get is a requirement for a referendum amendment with Labour then abstaining on the final vote,
Remember no one wants responsibility for any of this so an approach like that makes everyone equally responsible for the referendum....
I think the Kyle amendment for EUref2, Deal v Remain, is already close to 300 votes now Labour have backed EUref2.
If May's Deal fails again I expect about 50 Tory MPs ie Rudd, Burt, Soames, Letwin, Clarke, Boles, Gauke etc to say they will switch from backing the Deal to EUref2 as a last resort to avoid No Deal. That gives 350 MPs for EUref2 and it passes the Commons.
That will place a gun to the head of the ERG ie back May's Deal or risk no Brexit at all, most of them will cave and back the Deal and it could then scrape home with the support of a few Labour MPs in Leave seats too
So your prediction is that May's deal will pass next week with ERG support?
No, May's Deal will likely fail next week but after the Commons then votes overwhelmingly against No Deal and for extension of Article 50 and EUref2 looks very possible the Deal will pass on a third vote to avoid No Brexit at all
And will there be a vote on an amendment to attach a referendum to the deal before the third vote?
Bercow will likely call the Kyle Deal v Remain referendum amendment yes, that probably gets around 300 votes sending a shot across the ERG bows, then squeaky bum time for the ERG as at least 50 Tory MPs would switch and back that EUref2 amendment if the Deal fails a third time, giving EUref2 and extending Article 50 a majority
Oh, let them have their fun. If a good-natured little contest to see who can have the most predictably, tediously elitist opinion on food chains is what it takes to brighten their day, then why begrudge them?
I don’t mind Nando’s. Nando’s has personality, spice and makes no pretences.
I also used to like Wetherspoons but can obviously no longer go there for political reasons.
I presume by political reasons you mean their decision to remove the traditional Sunday lunch from the menu?
The Water End Barn in St. Alban's (now owned by Wetherspoons) and the Spennymoor Wetherspoons are great. Others are more variable.
Comments
Giraffe was utterly generic. Its appeal always mystified me.
It’s like she’s desperately trying to get another EU vote but doesn’t want to be blamed for it .
I would never voluntary choose to dine there.
Seems like there's a lot that could go wrong when they could just vote for the deal and let us all move on...
Ed's was a great concept back in the early 90's (when it literally had one or two fronts). Nowadays other better burger bars are available.
The first Giraffe was in Hampstead High Street. First Ed's (posh burgers) was in Soho.
Expanded fast. Various owners including Tesco. Just stuck their neck out too far.
Pasta for kids etc. No, I never went into one.
It was a late night burger hangout in the late 90s, with no pretensions apart from kitsch. The food was, and remained, awful.
Also after the establishment and population of any new parties (Tigs, Farage etc), as they will all have an effect on the remaining balance, which will effect the choice of leader.
I really hope I've counted this right.
Of course we don’t know what the actual electorate thinks, it’s true.
https://twitter.com/simongerman600/status/1102541703859314688
"The food here is terrible."
"I know, and such small portions."
Possibly Woody Allen?
Can't see too many Lab MPs going along with May's Deal after this morning.
Unless it is a whipped vote on a deal to put Deal/Remain to 2nd vote.
Green Book was OK, but if you have seen the trailer then you have seen the whole film.
Remember no one wants responsibility for any of this so an approach like that makes everyone equally responsible for the referendum....
It appears to be a naff throwback to the 90s. Would not be out of place to find a pic of Blair meeting Oasis at Downing Street in the loos.
Surely no one who actually wants to leave could possibly be responsible for this? For the umpteeth time it is so far beyond incompetence as to be out of sight. Did someone ask Grayling for advice?
So did farmers.
So did auto workers.
They were all explicitly warned.
The Prodigy's Keith Flint dies aged 49
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-47442312
Drugs are bad MKAY...
While a lot of people see conspiracy 99 times out of a 100 incompetency and trying to cover up said mistake is far more likely.
Anyone who didn’t see this coming has not been paying attention.
If May's Deal fails again I expect about 50 Tory MPs ie Rudd, Burt, Soames, Letwin, Clarke, Boles, Gauke etc to say they will switch from backing the Deal to EUref2 as a last resort to avoid No Deal. That gives 350 MPs for EUref2 and it passes the Commons along with Art 50 extension.
That will place a gun to the head of the ERG ie back May's Deal or risk no Brexit at all, most of them will cave and back the Deal and it could then scrape home with the support of a few Labour MPs in Leave seats too
Alistair is right of course that London pays a massive amount to the Exchequer which is then recycled via general government spending and especially the welfare system, around the country.
But there’s very little systematic attempt to encourage regional economic development.
Delicious, reasonably priced, reasonably speedy food.
Nando's is far better chicken than eg KFC.
Which May promptly shut down.
https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2019/02/25/robert-craig-why-royal-consent-is-required-for-the-proposed-article-50-extension-bill/
https://twitter.com/MattChorley/status/1100323017182326785
But, you would have thought that the actual business of low politics is something they could manage. If you've got 20 or so opposition MP's who have indicated that they might vote with the government, you would have thought that the PM would be doing everything to win them over, and offering them something worthwhile for their votes.
I also used to like Wetherspoons but can obviously no longer go there for political reasons.