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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » In this week’s PB / Polling Matters podcast: LAB’s Brexit shif

SystemSystem Posts: 12,143
edited February 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » In this week’s PB / Polling Matters podcast: LAB’s Brexit shift, TIG voters vs the SDP & EU parliament elections

On this week’s podcast, Keiran Pedley and Matt Singh look at the numbers around Labour’s policy on a second Brexit vote and discuss the popularity of The Independent Group, comparing their potential impact to that of the SDP in the 1980s.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • First
  • Sounds like a fun podcast
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,999

    Foxy said:

    GROOMING TRIAL: Hecklers called prosecutors 'slags' and 'hoped they would be raped'

    https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/17464382.grooming-trial-hecklers-called-prosecutors-slags-and-hoped-they-would-be-raped/

    Lovely families these bastards come from.

    Good to hear that evidence is being sought to prosecute them.

    I see in todays news that Non EU immigration from Asia and Africa is up, matching the drop in EU immigration. Be careful what you wish for, Britain will become less European in many ways as a result of Brexit.
    Serious question. How is that a problem? England (or Britain if that is your bag) is already a huge lovely rock polisher off different cultures all steadily rubbing the edges of each other to make something new, shiny and classically English. Why should it matter where those new pebbles come from?

    Apologies I am a geologist and I am pushing the 'rocky' metaphor a bit.
    The referendum was won by whipping up untrue fears of vast numbers of Muslims descending on Britain.
    You are a stuck record Alastair. No matter how many times you repeat these claims you are still singing 'Highway to Hell' in Esperanto.

    In fact as punishment for your stuck record act you are now condemned to watch this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_gtGfAail4
    You tricked me.

    That wasn't in Esperanto :-(
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    How many more times with the Tiggers be able to claim sufficient attention to feature in a podcast and future articles? I guess we'll find out.
    Scott_P said:
    Are they serious? Christ, I wouldn't be surprised if she would be perfectly happy to announce her departure date the instant the deal is signed, staying on just long enough for a damn leadership election to take place.

    But what a mockery it would make of claims the deal was the problem if this story were true.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,454
    Scott_P said:
    They've been listening to me at last!
  • Can't help wondering if a Trump/Kim deal will be signed a few months (or even weeks) before the next POTUS election.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,712
    edited February 2019
    FPT
    dots said:

    MTimT said:

    Charles said:

    MTimT said:

    Charles said:

    rpjs said:

    Referring to the way some Indians were executed by the British after the 1857 rebellion was suppressed, perhaps?
    A fitting punishment for the Brexit mutineers.

    Actually the kerfuffle over which kind of fat was used in the sepoys' cartridges has all the hallmarks of a Daily Mail EU scare story.
    I assume you are of the opinion that India would be much better if it had stayed Under the control of the East India Company
    I don't want to get into the wrongs and rights of the colonial period, but a question: was India a single entity before the EIC, was it a series of sometimes-warring kingdoms, or was it both?
    Series of usually warring kingdoms
    That gives the impression that none of them were of global significance, whereas, at one point before the industrial revolution, the Mogul Empire was the world's largest economy on the back of agriculture and manufacturing and, at its greatest extent, was larger than modern day India.
    Yes but the phrasing “before the EIC” implies immediately before
    The EIC initially was operating in India while the Mogul Empire was at its peak.

    Mogul Empire (1526-1857), peak years 1556-1707
    EIC 1612-1757
    In fact, the Indian Rebellion against the EIC in 1857 was partially about restoring the Mogul Emperor.
    Genuine question to someone born in India.
    If vast majority of Kashmir isn’t Hindu, why is India so keen on it?
    Two reasons (I think):

    1) The Nehru-Gandhi family have roots in Kashmir

    2) It's to prove that a Muslim majority area can be governed as part of India (invalidating Jinnah's "Two-Nation" hypothesis). But there was a double-standard in 1948: Hyderabad was ruled by a Muslim raja (or "Nizam"), despite being in southern India. He ruled over a Hindu majority, but refused to join in 1947, so the following year India just invaded. Being several hundred miles from the nearest Pakistani territory, Hyderabad was quickly annexed to India.



  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    Scott_P said:
    Chortle. Brexit just gets better with each passing day.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,376
    FPT:
    RE: India. Ashoka ruled over pretty much as big an area as the Moghuls and the British did in 3rd Century BCE. He placed a series of obelisks around explaining the Laws. Ironically he was totally forgotten until Imperial surveyors found them and translated them.
    I also read once, but can't remember where, that India accounted for 25% of World GDP when Europeans arrived.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,376

    Can't help wondering if a Trump/Kim deal will be signed a few months (or even weeks) before the next POTUS election.

    Job swap?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,454
    dixiedean said:

    Can't help wondering if a Trump/Kim deal will be signed a few months (or even weeks) before the next POTUS election.

    Job swap?
    Trump would LOVE the parades......
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810

    Can't help wondering if a Trump/Kim deal will be signed a few months (or even weeks) before the next POTUS election.

    PB Trumpton wet dreams are stranger than fiction.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    dixiedean said:

    Can't help wondering if a Trump/Kim deal will be signed a few months (or even weeks) before the next POTUS election.

    Job swap?
    I would think Trump would quite enjoy being the King of Pyongyang.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    .
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    _Anazina_ said:

    Can't help wondering if a Trump/Kim deal will be signed a few months (or even weeks) before the next POTUS election.

    PB Trumpton wet dreams are stranger than fiction.
    He's not saying he wants it to happen.

    Seems like a pretty mild (and vaguely plausible) conspiracy theory to me.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    GROOMING TRIAL: Hecklers called prosecutors 'slags' and 'hoped they would be raped'

    https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/17464382.grooming-trial-hecklers-called-prosecutors-slags-and-hoped-they-would-be-raped/

    Lovely families these bastards come from.

    Good to hear that evidence is being sought to prosecute them.

    I see in todays news that Non EU immigration from Asia and Africa is up, matching the drop in EU immigration. Be careful what you wish for, Britain will become less European in many ways as a result of Brexit.
    Serious question. How is that a problem? England (or Britain if that is your bag) is already a huge lovely rock polisher off different cultures all steadily rubbing the edges of each other to make something new, shiny and classically English. Why should it matter where those new pebbles come from?

    Apologies I am a geologist and I am pushing the 'rocky' metaphor a bit.
    The referendum was won by whipping up untrue fears of vast numbers of Muslims descending on Britain.
    You are a stuck record Alastair. No matter how many times you repeat these claims you are still singing 'Highway to Hell' in Esperanto.

    In fact as punishment for your stuck record act you are now condemned to watch this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_gtGfAail4
    You tricked me.

    That wasn't in Esperanto :-(
    I told you it was punishment
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    edited February 2019
    Scott_P said:
    A somewhat scattershot motion. My professional advice would they should separate things out with a preamble statement and a clear conclusion so that their no doubt very worthy calls for specific action are not lost amid the wordiness.

    Is it at all noteworthy that they feel the need to shoehorn Iraq into the middle of all this? Or that they hate attacks on the democratically elected leadership of the party given the leader's record, and the fact that the deputy leader is also democratically elected and seen as attaching him?

    On the other hand thank goodness I now know the secret of why racism exists - capitalism that is promoted by apologists in the media and Tories.

    Only 80 people there though.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,280
    Scott_P said:
    I would really like to know exactly what Corbyn’s record of fighting racism amounts to. It’s always stated as an incontrovertible fact. But what, actually, has he done? Signed a lot of EDMs. What else?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,503
    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_P said:
    I would really like to know exactly what Corbyn’s record of fighting racism amounts to. It’s always stated as an incontrovertible fact. But what, actually, has he done? Signed a lot of EDMs. What else?
    To be fair, he has always been a friend, supporter and promoter of Diane Abbott.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Is this what is known as a "moral panic"?


    "Momo challenge has caused 'severe trauma' among pupils, school safety group says

    "Over the last couple of days we have heard first-hand accounts from our schools of children and young people who have been exposed to Momo""


    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/momo-challenge-real-hoax-warning-15904004
  • Scott_P said:
    I see they have repeated the calls for Blair to be thrown out.

    Go on punks, make my day.

    This new Labour party of SWP and other trots would be finally finished.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,739
    AndyJS said:

    Is this what is known as a "moral panic"?


    "Momo challenge has caused 'severe trauma' among pupils, school safety group says

    "Over the last couple of days we have heard first-hand accounts from our schools of children and young people who have been exposed to Momo""


    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/momo-challenge-real-hoax-warning-15904004

    A horrifying figure telling us to do crazy, dangerous things?

    MoMo or MayMay?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,058
    edited February 2019
    AndyJS said:

    Is this what is known as a "moral panic"?


    "Momo challenge has caused 'severe trauma' among pupils, school safety group says

    "Over the last couple of days we have heard first-hand accounts from our schools of children and young people who have been exposed to Momo""


    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/momo-challenge-real-hoax-warning-15904004

    There are currently no less than FIVE articles in the Sun about it, also local newspaper syndicated papers, Mirror etc etc. Also came across a facebook post regarding it where people don't say anything substantive but just tag their friends in the comment section.
    It's echo chamber/streisand effect hoax becoming self fulfilling prophecy as schools and even the Commons! "warnings" to pupils/parents about it propagate the meme about "Momo" sending self harm etc messages through Whatsapp.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_P said:
    I would really like to know exactly what Corbyn’s record of fighting racism amounts to. It’s always stated as an incontrovertible fact. But what, actually, has he done? Signed a lot of EDMs. What else?
    Supported the Chagos islanders? Mostly because of whom they were opposing (UK and US, naturally).

    Does seem like circular logic. He can't be racist because he's always been anti-racist.
  • Scott_P said:
    It seems each day brings a new low for Labour.

    This is a fire that they cannot put out.

    Points to Watson for trying, but sorry guys the gig is over. Walk.
  • kle4 said:

    How many more times with the Tiggers be able to claim sufficient attention to feature in a podcast and future articles? I guess we'll find out.

    Scott_P said:
    Are they serious? Christ, I wouldn't be surprised if she would be perfectly happy to announce her departure date the instant the deal is signed, staying on just long enough for a damn leadership election to take place.

    But what a mockery it would make of claims the deal was the problem if this story were true.
    The deal is a problem.

    The deal plus May is a bigger problem.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979

    Scott_P said:
    It seems each day brings a new low for Labour.

    This is a fire that they cannot put out.

    Points to Watson for trying, but sorry guys the gig is over. Walk.
    As long as the Watsons of the world keep on trying, the gig is clearly not over. I know Thornberry was merely talking tough in front of a political rally but how many MPs, members and Labour voters would indeed rather die than consider leaving the party?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,376
    AndyJS said:

    Is this what is known as a "moral panic"?


    "Momo challenge has caused 'severe trauma' among pupils, school safety group says

    "Over the last couple of days we have heard first-hand accounts from our schools of children and young people who have been exposed to Momo""


    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/momo-challenge-real-hoax-warning-15904004

    Indeed. People who are scared the Internet will ruin children's lives, literally terrifying them by believing and sharing any old crap they see on the Internet.
    Police, schools, etc not doing any kind of basic fact-checking (such as is this a real thing?) before issuing warnings.
    Instead of educating children on Internet safety, maybe we should educate the over 40's on critical thinking skills.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979

    kle4 said:

    How many more times with the Tiggers be able to claim sufficient attention to feature in a podcast and future articles? I guess we'll find out.

    Scott_P said:
    Are they serious? Christ, I wouldn't be surprised if she would be perfectly happy to announce her departure date the instant the deal is signed, staying on just long enough for a damn leadership election to take place.

    But what a mockery it would make of claims the deal was the problem if this story were true.
    The deal is a problem.

    The deal plus May is a bigger problem.
    I believe it. That's why I don't get the idea May setting out a timetable to go would swing anything - they were talking that up in mid December too.
  • Maybe I am naive, but, seriously? Momentum have had to issue a video explaining to their young, middle-class, pseudo marxists that actually the Rothschilds are not involved in a world wide conspiracy of behind-the-scenes bankers and puppet controllers and in fact, incredibly, some other people are far richer (Bezos for example).

    What the hell happens in our best schools and universities?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Maybe I am naive, but, seriously? Momentum have had to issue a video explaining to their young, middle-class, pseudo marxists that actually the Rothschilds are not involved in a world wide conspiracy of behind-the-scenes bankers and puppet controllers and in fact, incredibly, some other people are far richer (Bezos for example).

    What the hell happens in our best schools and universities?

    They're too busy debating whether to take down statues.
  • kle4 said:

    How many more times with the Tiggers be able to claim sufficient attention to feature in a podcast and future articles? I guess we'll find out.

    Scott_P said:
    Are they serious? Christ, I wouldn't be surprised if she would be perfectly happy to announce her departure date the instant the deal is signed, staying on just long enough for a damn leadership election to take place.

    But what a mockery it would make of claims the deal was the problem if this story were true.
    The deal is a problem.

    The deal plus May is a bigger problem.
    The charitable but as it happens I think correct interpretation is "The Withdrawal Agreement, with new words of comfort on the backstop, is a bearable transition state - provided the next stage of negotiations, on the future relationship in the long term, are led by a true believer in Brexit".
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    For shame Messrs Pedley and Singh suggesting it might not be a coincidence that Labour chose this moment to switch position in part because of the Tiggers.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,058
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    It seems each day brings a new low for Labour.

    This is a fire that they cannot put out.

    Points to Watson for trying, but sorry guys the gig is over. Walk.
    As long as the Watsons of the world keep on trying, the gig is clearly not over. I know Thornberry was merely talking tough in front of a political rally but how many MPs, members and Labour voters would indeed rather die than consider leaving the party?
    Thornberry showed the right level of devotion to Jezza's cause at the rally if she wants to become leader I think.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Trump/Kim Summit

    This is the real disagreement behind the failure to move forward:
    https://twitter.com/DPRK_News/status/1100435265183719424
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    kle4 said:

    For shame Messrs Pedley and Singh suggesting it might not be a coincidence that Labour chose this moment to switch position in part because of the Tiggers.

    Colour me shocked
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    It seems each day brings a new low for Labour.

    This is a fire that they cannot put out.

    Points to Watson for trying, but sorry guys the gig is over. Walk.
    As long as the Watsons of the world keep on trying, the gig is clearly not over. I know Thornberry was merely talking tough in front of a political rally but how many MPs, members and Labour voters would indeed rather die than consider leaving the party?
    Then they are enabling the filth
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Scott_P said:
    To be fair you get food and accommodation for that
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    Floater said:

    Scott_P said:
    To be fair you get food and accommodation for that
    Yes, but only servings of milk and honey, which doesn't seem like it will sustain people for a full march.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,058
    Unless they're planning on whole day road closures, parts of that route are going to be errm well take a look here :

    https://www.google.com/maps/@53.6194697,-1.3087695,3a,75y,136.24h,68.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFm15gOEEfSaf8Pxz595GsA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    A somewhat scattershot motion. My professional advice would they should separate things out with a preamble statement and a clear conclusion so that their no doubt very worthy calls for specific action are not lost amid the wordiness.

    Is it at all noteworthy that they feel the need to shoehorn Iraq into the middle of all this? Or that they hate attacks on the democratically elected leadership of the party given the leader's record, and the fact that the deputy leader is also democratically elected and seen as attaching him?

    On the other hand thank goodness I now know the secret of why racism exists - capitalism that is promoted by apologists in the media and Tories.

    Only 80 people there though.
    The last point is wrong. Getting 80 people to sit through an evening of turgid “debate” is an achievement. I always felt that the key skill of the hard left is to have absolutely nothing in their lives other than the desire to sit in drafty meeting halls with bladders of iron.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    edited February 2019
    Interesting that the exclusive poll referred to suggests that if we do vote in the EU elections turnout would supposedly be about the same, with Remainers more enthusiastic, and UKIP well well down.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    Scott_P said:
    To be fair you get food and accommodation for that
    Yes, but only servings of milk and honey, which doesn't seem like it will sustain people for a full march.
    To be fair, getting the milk all the way to Sunderland is probably pretty expensive.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,503
    Pulpstar said:

    Unless they're planning on whole day road closures, parts of that route are going to be errm well take a look here :

    https://www.google.com/maps/@53.6194697,-1.3087695,3a,75y,136.24h,68.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFm15gOEEfSaf8Pxz595GsA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
    Might have to dodge the odd muckspreader on the route between Leicester and Oakham.

    https://goo.gl/maps/j1E6c43ZNcT2
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    edited February 2019
    matt said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    A somewhat scattershot motion. My professional advice would they should separate things out with a preamble statement and a clear conclusion so that their no doubt very worthy calls for specific action are not lost amid the wordiness.

    Is it at all noteworthy that they feel the need to shoehorn Iraq into the middle of all this? Or that they hate attacks on the democratically elected leadership of the party given the leader's record, and the fact that the deputy leader is also democratically elected and seen as attaching him?

    On the other hand thank goodness I now know the secret of why racism exists - capitalism that is promoted by apologists in the media and Tories.

    Only 80 people there though.
    The last point is wrong. Getting 80 people to sit through an evening of turgid “debate” is an achievement. I always felt that the key skill of the hard left is to have absolutely nothing in their lives other than the desire to sit in drafty meeting halls with bladders of iron.
    I wasn't suggesting getting 80 there was unimpressive necessarily (though in what I presume is a place with a very large CLP I'm sure they've had even better turnouts before) - it was anticipating what the likely response will be from the main defenders of the party in pointing to the irrelevance in the grand scheme of such a motion even if they condemn it, because its just one CLP and not all even backed the motion.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,058
    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Unless they're planning on whole day road closures, parts of that route are going to be errm well take a look here :

    https://www.google.com/maps/@53.6194697,-1.3087695,3a,75y,136.24h,68.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFm15gOEEfSaf8Pxz595GsA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
    Might have to dodge the odd muckspreader on the route between Leicester and Oakham.

    https://goo.gl/maps/j1E6c43ZNcT2
    Noones done any research other than loading up Google maps for this exercise have they ?
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    The first response is wonderful: "...I still have hope that Lansman will go"!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    edited February 2019
    When are expecting to see this much vaunted 'Cox's Codpiece' by the way? Seems like the last big hope for May, so it had better be impressive.
  • Endillion said:

    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    Scott_P said:
    To be fair you get food and accommodation for that
    Yes, but only servings of milk and honey, which doesn't seem like it will sustain people for a full march.
    To be fair, getting the milk all the way to Sunderland is probably pretty expensive.
    I really hate this march. The Jarrow march was about unemployment and the closure of industry in the NE.

    The Farage March is about conning people into continuing to support (even vote) to be poorer and unemployed by leaving our main trading partners.

  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    T
    I’m baffled as to why anyone would accept Jones’ interpretation of Chuka’s comment. Utterly bizarre.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    edited February 2019
    Floater said:

    Williamson is a ... piece of work

    Is Vanilla auto replacing the word crap now?
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    I mean it’s nonsense management speak, but it is harmless. It sounds like someone describing why their photos of nude women are art and definitely not pron.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979

    I mean it’s nonsense management speak, but it is harmless. It sounds like someone describing why their photos of nude women are art and definitely not pron.
    Indeed.

    And didn't even UKIP also use to talk occasionally of taking ideas from left and right?

    I think the left-right spectrum is mostly bollocks albeit useful for tribal political shorthand, but it's sustained for a reason, and I don't think promising you might be willing to take ideas from either end is not actually that popular. It's why it will be seen as Labour lite by some and Tory lite by others and thus limit its appeal.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329

    Endillion said:

    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    Scott_P said:
    To be fair you get food and accommodation for that
    Yes, but only servings of milk and honey, which doesn't seem like it will sustain people for a full march.
    To be fair, getting the milk all the way to Sunderland is probably pretty expensive.
    I really hate this march. The Jarrow march was about unemployment and the closure of industry in the NE.

    The Farage March is about conning people into continuing to support (even vote) to be poorer and unemployed by leaving our main trading partners.

    If the comments and reports I’ve seen are anything to go by they are not bothered one bit about being poorer, and They don’t need to be conned - they already think that. What is needed is a popular remain politician who they can believe and who can point out some of the negatives. Unfortunately your statement that they will be ‘poorer and unemployed’ is so vague as to be meaningless.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    Endillion said:

    The first response is wonderful: "...I still have hope that Lansman will go"!
    I can never spot the spoofs from the real stuff in tweets, left and right
    https://twitter.com/pkerrian21/status/1100783303894974468
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    Williamson is a ... piece of work

    Is Vanilla auto replacing the word crap now?
    crap was not the word I was thinking of
  • Pulpstar said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Unless they're planning on whole day road closures, parts of that route are going to be errm well take a look here :

    https://www.google.com/maps/@53.6194697,-1.3087695,3a,75y,136.24h,68.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFm15gOEEfSaf8Pxz595GsA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
    Might have to dodge the odd muckspreader on the route between Leicester and Oakham.

    https://goo.gl/maps/j1E6c43ZNcT2
    Noones done any research other than loading up Google maps for this exercise have they ?
    Will you be going to see the Wadworth to Worksop march on 22nd March ?

    That's not the best road for walking along either.
  • _Anazina_ said:

    T

    I’m baffled as to why anyone would accept Jones’ interpretation of Chuka’s comment. Utterly bizarre.
    The David Brent thing seems to be a bit of a meme amongst the cult after the TIG split.

    Desperately funny... until they see the polling figures.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,503

    Endillion said:

    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    Scott_P said:
    To be fair you get food and accommodation for that
    Yes, but only servings of milk and honey, which doesn't seem like it will sustain people for a full march.
    To be fair, getting the milk all the way to Sunderland is probably pretty expensive.
    I really hate this march. The Jarrow march was about unemployment and the closure of industry in the NE.

    The Farage March is about conning people into continuing to support (even vote) to be poorer and unemployed by leaving our main trading partners.

    It is quite easy to troll the site. I have just registered to march under a witty pseudonym, giving my address as The Bunker, Wilhelmstrasse.
  • Pulpstar said:

    AndyJS said:

    Is this what is known as a "moral panic"?


    "Momo challenge has caused 'severe trauma' among pupils, school safety group says

    "Over the last couple of days we have heard first-hand accounts from our schools of children and young people who have been exposed to Momo""


    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/momo-challenge-real-hoax-warning-15904004

    There are currently no less than FIVE articles in the Sun about it, also local newspaper syndicated papers, Mirror etc etc. Also came across a facebook post regarding it where people don't say anything substantive but just tag their friends in the comment section.
    It's echo chamber/streisand effect hoax becoming self fulfilling prophecy as schools and even the Commons! "warnings" to pupils/parents about it propagate the meme about "Momo" sending self harm etc messages through Whatsapp.
    My kid's school sent out a link to a Momo Parent's Guide issued by a body called National Online Safety. As it's now been debunked by Snopes and the Police, I wrote back to the school giving them the same advice I use at work: never repeat a story from the Internet unless you have fact checked it first. The school just replied that they were just following advice they had received from stakeholders. Argh.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,376
    Endillion said:

    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    Scott_P said:
    To be fair you get food and accommodation for that
    Yes, but only servings of milk and honey, which doesn't seem like it will sustain people for a full march.
    To be fair, getting the milk all the way to Sunderland is probably pretty expensive.
    Why? It is only 20 miles away.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,058

    Pulpstar said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Unless they're planning on whole day road closures, parts of that route are going to be errm well take a look here :

    https://www.google.com/maps/@53.6194697,-1.3087695,3a,75y,136.24h,68.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFm15gOEEfSaf8Pxz595GsA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
    Might have to dodge the odd muckspreader on the route between Leicester and Oakham.

    https://goo.gl/maps/j1E6c43ZNcT2
    Noones done any research other than loading up Google maps for this exercise have they ?
    Will you be going to see the Wadworth to Worksop march on 22nd March ?

    That's not the best road for walking along either.
    Hah, nah not going to book a day off work just to see those jokers - but yes I know this route and the section north of Oldcotes in particular is not great to walk, 1 foot grass verge next to a national speed limit A road.
    Now I know its all in a day's work for some nutters like Josias Jessop and Eddie Izzard but I'd be staggered if Farage manages it.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810

    Endillion said:

    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    Scott_P said:
    To be fair you get food and accommodation for that
    Yes, but only servings of milk and honey, which doesn't seem like it will sustain people for a full march.
    To be fair, getting the milk all the way to Sunderland is probably pretty expensive.
    I really hate this march. The Jarrow march was about unemployment and the closure of industry in the NE.

    The Farage March is about conning people into continuing to support (even vote) to be poorer and unemployed by leaving our main trading partners.

    If the comments and reports I’ve seen are anything to go by they are not bothered one bit about being poorer, and They don’t need to be conned - they already think that. What is needed is a popular remain politician who they can believe and who can point out some of the negatives. Unfortunately your statement that they will be ‘poorer and unemployed’ is so vague as to be meaningless.
    They will apparently be fifty quid poorer as a core marcher, unless this is fake news?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,058
    edited March 2019
    _Anazina_ said:

    Endillion said:

    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    Scott_P said:
    To be fair you get food and accommodation for that
    Yes, but only servings of milk and honey, which doesn't seem like it will sustain people for a full march.
    To be fair, getting the milk all the way to Sunderland is probably pretty expensive.
    I really hate this march. The Jarrow march was about unemployment and the closure of industry in the NE.

    The Farage March is about conning people into continuing to support (even vote) to be poorer and unemployed by leaving our main trading partners.

    If the comments and reports I’ve seen are anything to go by they are not bothered one bit about being poorer, and They don’t need to be conned - they already think that. What is needed is a popular remain politician who they can believe and who can point out some of the negatives. Unfortunately your statement that they will be ‘poorer and unemployed’ is so vague as to be meaningless.
    They will apparently be fifty quid poorer as a core marcher, unless this is fake news?
    Well you can get 14 nights of accomodation, 14 breakfasts and 14 dinners out of that if you're prepared to walk 200 miles on the side of fast A roads. You might even see Nige driving past on the way !
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    Pulpstar said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Endillion said:

    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    Scott_P said:
    To be fair you get food and accommodation for that
    Yes, but only servings of milk and honey, which doesn't seem like it will sustain people for a full march.
    To be fair, getting the milk all the way to Sunderland is probably pretty expensive.
    I really hate this march. The Jarrow march was about unemployment and the closure of industry in the NE.

    The Farage March is about conning people into continuing to support (even vote) to be poorer and unemployed by leaving our main trading partners.

    If the comments and reports I’ve seen are anything to go by they are not bothered one bit about being poorer, and They don’t need to be conned - they already think that. What is needed is a popular remain politician who they can believe and who can point out some of the negatives. Unfortunately your statement that they will be ‘poorer and unemployed’ is so vague as to be meaningless.
    They will apparently be fifty quid poorer as a core marcher, unless this is fake news?
    Well you can get 14 nights of accomodation, 14 breakfasts and 14 dinners out of that if you're prepared to walk 200 miles on the side of fast A roads. You might even see Nige driving past on the way !
    Full list of kit you get:

    "Being a core marcher means you will receive an official March to Leave kit to help you on the march. These are the items you will receive on the day:

    Waterproof coat

    Beanie hat

    Gloves

    Water bottle

    T-Shirt

    Wristband

    High visibility blue jacket"

    Note the blue jacket - not gilets jaunes this time.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    Impeachment or the 25th? The race is on:

    https://twitter.com/nytmike/status/1101245574219788289
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    I must have missed this, Ummuna to be Tigger spokesman.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47410564
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,575
    Portillo on This Week says the choice is now between May's Deal and up to a 2 year extension of Art 50 and the slow death of Brexit
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    edited March 2019
    kle4 said:

    I must have missed this, Ummuna to be Tigger spokesman.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47410564

    Away we go. Chuka.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    HYUFD said:

    Portillo on This Week says the choice is now between May's Deal and up to a 2 year extension of Art 50 and the slow death of Brexit

    As usual he is correct, me thinks.

    ERG and DUP face a stark choice.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,535
    Pulpstar said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Endillion said:

    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    Scott_P said:
    To be fair you get food and accommodation for that
    Yes, but only servings of milk and honey, which doesn't seem like it will sustain people for a full march.
    To be fair, getting the milk all the way to Sunderland is probably pretty expensive.
    I really hate this march. The Jarrow march was about unemployment and the closure of industry in the NE.

    The Farage March is about conning people into continuing to support (even vote) to be poorer and unemployed by leaving our main trading partners.

    If the comments and reports I’ve seen are anything to go by they are not bothered one bit about being poorer, and They don’t need to be conned - they already think that. What is needed is a popular remain politician who they can believe and who can point out some of the negatives. Unfortunately your statement that they will be ‘poorer and unemployed’ is so vague as to be meaningless.
    They will apparently be fifty quid poorer as a core marcher, unless this is fake news?
    Well you can get 14 nights of accomodation, 14 breakfasts and 14 dinners out of that if you're prepared to walk 200 miles on the side of fast A roads. You might even see Nige driving past on the way !
    What about lunch?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,979
    HYUFD said:

    Portillo on This Week says the choice is now between May's Deal and up to a 2 year extension of Art 50 and the slow death of Brexit

    He's probably right, but I fear a lot of people would take the possibility of a slow death versus the certainty of the deal, and because it's not as bad as the possibility of a quick death.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,695
    Britain Elects

    @britainelects
    34m
    34 minutes ago

    Berkeley Vale (Stroud) result:

    CON: 49.8% (+4.6)
    LAB: 34.4% (+0.8)
    LDEM: 11.6% (-1.5)
    GRN: 4.1% (-3.9)

    Conservative HOLD.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,503
    kle4 said:

    I must have missed this, Ummuna to be Tigger spokesman.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47410564

    And Liz won't be joining, though very supportive.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,503

    Pulpstar said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    Endillion said:

    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    Scott_P said:
    To be fair you get food and accommodation for that
    Yes, but only servings of milk and honey, which doesn't seem like it will sustain people for a full march.
    To be fair, getting the milk all the way to Sunderland is probably pretty expensive.
    I really hate this march. The Jarrow march was about unemployment and the closure of industry in the NE.

    The Farage March is about conning people into continuing to support (even vote) to be poorer and unemployed by leaving our main trading partners.

    If the comments and reports I’ve seen are anything to go by they are not bothered one bit about being poorer, and They don’t need to be conned - they already think that. What is needed is a popular remain politician who they can believe and who can point out some of the negatives. Unfortunately your statement that they will be ‘poorer and unemployed’ is so vague as to be meaningless.
    They will apparently be fifty quid poorer as a core marcher, unless this is fake news?
    Well you can get 14 nights of accomodation, 14 breakfasts and 14 dinners out of that if you're prepared to walk 200 miles on the side of fast A roads. You might even see Nige driving past on the way !
    What about lunch?
    Wetherspoons White House in Scraptoft is suitable for those who have staggered round the Leicester ring road from Birstall, and after a good lunch, catch an Uber the rest of the way.
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124

    Endillion said:

    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    Scott_P said:
    To be fair you get food and accommodation for that
    Yes, but only servings of milk and honey, which doesn't seem like it will sustain people for a full march.
    To be fair, getting the milk all the way to Sunderland is probably pretty expensive.
    I really hate this march. The Jarrow march was about unemployment and the closure of industry in the NE.

    The Farage March is about conning people into continuing to support (even vote) to be poorer and unemployed by leaving our main trading partners.

    If the comments and reports I’ve seen are anything to go by they are not bothered one bit about being poorer, and They don’t need to be conned - they already think that. What is needed is a popular remain politician who they can believe and who can point out some of the negatives. Unfortunately your statement that they will be ‘poorer and unemployed’ is so vague as to be meaningless.
    They won't even be poorer, or unemployed. Their wages and living standards will rise in a non-FOM economy. They already have risen, as has employment. Brexit's a bugger for people running IO businesses in Dover and for civil servants, but they aren't on this march.

    Seriously, it's something the Remain campaign still hasn't got, or wants to ignore. The functions, structures and effects of the EU affect people differently. Really differently. Where the drawbacks are more modest than the benefits, you get Remain voters. Where it's the other way around, Leave voters.

    So where the Remain campaign is based on 'We'll lose a lot of jam sandwiches if you vote leave', and the Leave campaign is 'in the EU we get f*cked over so that you can have an extra jam sandwich', don't expect 'but muh jam sandwiches' to change any minds.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,575

    HYUFD said:

    Portillo on This Week says the choice is now between May's Deal and up to a 2 year extension of Art 50 and the slow death of Brexit

    As usual he is correct, me thinks.

    ERG and DUP face a stark choice.
    Yes, it looks like May might have played her cards right in the end after all
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,575
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Portillo on This Week says the choice is now between May's Deal and up to a 2 year extension of Art 50 and the slow death of Brexit

    He's probably right, but I fear a lot of people would take the possibility of a slow death versus the certainty of the deal, and because it's not as bad as the possibility of a quick death.
    They might but as that slow death will likely have to include EUref2 and a Remain option from the EU's perspective the ERG and Labour MPs in Leave seats might have to grit their death and back the Deal
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    I've finally had a Brexit bet.

    Brexit date before end March 2019. £252 at average Betfair odds 5.15.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Portillo on This Week says the choice is now between May's Deal and up to a 2 year extension of Art 50 and the slow death of Brexit

    As usual he is correct, me thinks.

    ERG and DUP face a stark choice.
    Yes, it looks like May might have played her cards right in the end after all
    If we assume it was Theresa May's intention to cause billions of pounds' worth of damage to the British economy, then yes, she might have played her cards right.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,575

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Portillo on This Week says the choice is now between May's Deal and up to a 2 year extension of Art 50 and the slow death of Brexit

    As usual he is correct, me thinks.

    ERG and DUP face a stark choice.
    Yes, it looks like May might have played her cards right in the end after all
    If we assume it was Theresa May's intention to cause billions of pounds' worth of damage to the British economy, then yes, she might have played her cards right.
    If we got to No Deal then we really would have had billions of pounds worth of damage, as it is May has effectively enabled that to be ruled out by the Commons while forcing a choice between her Deal or lengthy extension of Art 50 and likely EUref2 with a Remain option
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    kle4 said:

    I must have missed this, Ummuna to be Tigger spokesman.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47410564

    Luciana Berger gets home affairs, health, and digital and culture, so will be responsible for Twitter trolls.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited March 2019
    stjohn said:

    I've finally had a Brexit bet.

    Brexit date before end March 2019. £252 at average Betfair odds 5.15.

    Staying green here, and not going back in. It looks far too murky and those damn fools in Westminster have arranged some votes to clash with the Cheltenham Festival (12 to 15 March).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,999
    Drutt said:

    Endillion said:

    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    Scott_P said:
    To be fair you get food and accommodation for that
    Yes, but only servings of milk and honey, which doesn't seem like it will sustain people for a full march.
    To be fair, getting the milk all the way to Sunderland is probably pretty expensive.
    I really hate this march. The Jarrow march was about unemployment and the closure of industry in the NE.

    The Farage March is about conning people into continuing to support (even vote) to be poorer and unemployed by leaving our main trading partners.

    If the comments and reports I’ve seen are anything to go by they are not bothered one bit about being poorer, and They don’t need to be conned - they already think that. What is needed is a popular remain politician who they can believe and who can point out some of the negatives. Unfortunately your statement that they will be ‘poorer and unemployed’ is so vague as to be meaningless.
    They won't even be poorer, or unemployed. Their wages and living standards will rise in a non-FOM economy. They already have risen, as has employment. Brexit's a bugger for people running IO businesses in Dover and for civil servants, but they aren't on this march.
    We don't know that.

    It might improve their incomes. It might not.

    If leaving FoM means that large employers leave, then it might mean lower levels of employment. If they don't leave, it may result in higher incomes.

    If leaving FoM means a weaker currency, then they might have notionally higher incomes, but that essentials - like food and energy - are more expensive. But a weaker currency might also stimulate demand, leading to higher economic growth.

    If leaving FoM means lower demand for housing, it might reduce rents and make it easier for people to own their own homes. But lower house prices may also mean that people compensate by increasing their savings rates.

    We don't know the impacts of leaving the EU / FoM. My personal view is that FoM is the one thing that I will miss from the EU. Having more freedom of who to hire, and who to work for, and where to live, is a good thing. A thought experiment: do you really think that banning Liverpudlians from working in London (and vice-versa) would raise incomes? And if not, then why would that be any different from banning Estonians from working in Essex?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,436
    rcs1000 said:

    We don't know the impacts of leaving the EU / FoM. My personal view is that FoM is the one thing that I will miss from the EU. Having more freedom of who to hire, and who to work for, and where to live, is a good thing. A thought experiment: do you really think that banning Liverpudlians from working in London (and vice-versa) would raise incomes? And if not, then why would that be any different from banning Estonians from working in Essex?

    Similarly does anyone think that we need restrictions on free movement between London and the Cotswolds to prevent pretty villages getting swamped by millions of outsiders?
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    rcs1000 said:

    We don't know the impacts of leaving the EU / FoM. My personal view is that FoM is the one thing that I will miss from the EU. Having more freedom of who to hire, and who to work for, and where to live, is a good thing. A thought experiment: do you really think that banning Liverpudlians from working in London (and vice-versa) would raise incomes? And if not, then why would that be any different from banning Estonians from working in Essex?

    Similarly does anyone think that we need restrictions on free movement between London and the Cotswolds to prevent pretty villages getting swamped by millions of outsiders?
    Wait, wait. I know the answer to that one ...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,436
    MTimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    We don't know the impacts of leaving the EU / FoM. My personal view is that FoM is the one thing that I will miss from the EU. Having more freedom of who to hire, and who to work for, and where to live, is a good thing. A thought experiment: do you really think that banning Liverpudlians from working in London (and vice-versa) would raise incomes? And if not, then why would that be any different from banning Estonians from working in Essex?

    Similarly does anyone think that we need restrictions on free movement between London and the Cotswolds to prevent pretty villages getting swamped by millions of outsiders?
    Wait, wait. I know the answer to that one ...
    "This is a local town for local people!"
This discussion has been closed.