On the TIGgers, I agree with those who feel that May will get her deal through. As long as No Deal is the alternative then she will win a vote, and may even get some concessions to ease the passage.
I'd go one step further and suggest that the TIGgers already expect this to happen, and their strategy is to supplant Labour as the major opposition with the primary aim of rejoining.
I'd also agree with those who see a general election as likely. The conservatives have the chance to capitalise on labour in disarray, and the TIGgers not yet organised, and the anti-tory vote split. They can't not seek to take advantage. When this happens, and whether May is leader, are more difficult questions to answer.
I think that’s spot on
TIG don’t want to be a new party. They want to change Labour - they are setting themselves up as a “government in exile”
Wollaston, Allen and Soubry are being played. It would be great for them to return to the fold - I suspect Allen will become a LibDem, Wollaston an independent and Soubry will end up a Tory peer,
None of them will be MPs after the next election
The Tory Three seem, politically, to have got themselves bent way out of shape by their hatred of Brexit. If we had voted to Remain, I doubt any of the three would have made a move. That they were all elected within the past two years on a manifesto commitment to implement Brexit might make their inner turmoil easier to understand. But ethically, it's much harder to see they can just carry on as MPs without offering themselves up for immediate re-election. They are currently sat in the House of Commons under false pretences. Not many other jobs where you could behave as they have done and yet continue to draw your salary.
From the soundbites I've heard from Allen et al, it's not just the Brexit vote: it's the fact that Brexit has utterly consumed government, and the backwards-looking, navel-gazing right-wing tendency so eloquently evoked by JRM and his fellow winnets is in control.
This government is not a conservative government. It's barely a Conservative government. Some might say it's not even a government ...
In Allen's case, it's down to being centre-left in outlook (not a left-wing Conservative) and joining a centr-right party by mistake.
On the TIGgers, I agree with those who feel that May will get her deal through. As long as No Deal is the alternative then she will win a vote, and may even get some concessions to ease the passage.
I'd go one step further and suggest that the TIGgers already expect this to happen, and their strategy is to supplant Labour as the major opposition with the primary aim of rejoining.
I'd also agree with those who see a general election as likely. The conservatives have the chance to capitalise on labour in disarray, and the TIGgers not yet organised, and the anti-tory vote split. They can't not seek to take advantage. When this happens, and whether May is leader, are more difficult questions to answer.
I think that’s spot on
TIG don’t want to be a new party. They want to change Labour - they are setting themselves up as a “government in exile”
Wollaston, Allen and Soubry are being played. It would be great for them to return to the fold - I suspect Allen will become a LibDem, Wollaston an independent and Soubry will end up a Tory peer,
None of them will be MPs after the next election
The Tory Three seem, politically, to have got themselves bent way out of shape by their hatred of Brexit. If we had voted to Remain, I doubt any of the three would have made a move. That they were all elected within the past two years on a manifesto commitment to implement Brexit might make their inner turmoil easier to understand. But ethically, it's much harder to see they can just carry on as MPs without offering themselves up for immediate re-election. They are currently sat in the House of Commons under false pretences. Not many other jobs where you could behave as they have done and yet continue to draw your salary.
A novel constitutional theory, based on nothing but your personal prejudices.
When Mark Reckless showed a moral authority that made these shiny new guys look grubby in comparison, then they've got a problem.
The argument that MPs attempting to recast the political landscape are duty bound to self sabotage that effort is not a persuasive one.
Two thirds of the electorate don’t believe their political views are represented by the existing major parties. FPTP gives them little option but a choice between the two - yet at the same time, it is a constitutional commonplace that you elect the MP, not the party.
On the TIGgers, I agree with those who feel that May will get her deal through. As long as No Deal is the alternative then she will win a vote, and may even get some concessions to ease the passage.
I'd go one step further and suggest that the TIGgers already expect this to happen, and their strategy is to supplant Labour as the major opposition with the primary aim of rejoining.
I'd also agree with those who see a general election as likely. The conservatives have the chance to capitalise on labour in disarray, and the TIGgers not yet organised, and the anti-tory vote split. They can't not seek to take advantage. When this happens, and whether May is leader, are more difficult questions to answer.
I think that’s spot on
TIG don’t want to be a new party. They want to change Labour - they are setting themselves up as a “government in exile”
Wollaston, Allen and Soubry are being played. It would be great for them to return to the gold - I suspect Allen will become a LibDem, Wollaston an independent and Soubry will end up a Tory peer,
None of them will be MPs after the next election
I think that depends very much on when the next election is.
I don’t think there’ll be any returning to the fold. The Tory party has become the party of Brexit, with a membership dominated by the elderly and the right, and I cannot see any means by which they might attract new moderate members to rebalance that any time soon. Brexit is only the lever, but it could prove powerful enough to break apart the Tory coalition.
Of course their gamble might easily fail, but it doesn’t change the fact that the Tories have abandoned the centre as Labour have.
52% voted for Brexit so please define "the centre" that has been abandoned?
And 85% of the votes cast in 2017 were for parties that were pledged to implement that decision to Brexit. A Govt. that just got on with everything else and forgot about Brexit would have been consumed by the voters at the next election.
We can argue about how badly the Govt. has gone about implementing Brexit. But no-one could seriously argue the Govt. didn't have to try.
On the TIGgers, I agree with those who feel that May will get her deal through. As long as No Deal is the alternative then she will win a vote, and may even get some concessions to ease the passage.
I'd go one step further and suggest that the TIGgers already expect this to happen, and their strategy is to supplant Labour as the major opposition with the primary aim of rejoining.
I'd also agree with those who see a general election as likely. The conservatives have the chance to capitalise on labour in disarray, and the TIGgers not yet organised, and the anti-tory vote split. They can't not seek to take advantage. When this happens, and whether May is leader, are more difficult questions to answer.
I think that’s spot on
TIG don’t want to be a new party. They want to change Labour - they are setting themselves up as a “government in exile”
Wollaston, Allen and Soubry are being played. It would be great for them to return to the fold - I suspect Allen will become a LibDem, Wollaston an independent and Soubry will end up a Tory peer,
None of them will be MPs after the next election
The Tory Three seem, politically, to have got themselves bent way out of shape by their hatred of Brexit. If we had voted to Remain, I doubt any of the three would have made a move. That they were all elected within the past two years on a manifesto commitment to implement Brexit might make their inner turmoil easier to understand. But ethically, it's much harder to see they can just carry on as MPs without offering themselves up for immediate re-election. They are currently sat in the House of Commons under false pretences. Not many other jobs where you could behave as they have done and yet continue to draw your salary.
From the soundbites I've heard from Allen et al, it's not just the Brexit vote: it's the fact that Brexit has utterly consumed government, and the backwards-looking, navel-gazing right-wing tendency so eloquently evoked by JRM and his fellow winnets is in control.
This government is not a conservative government. It's barely a Conservative government. Some might say it's not even a government ...
Allen et al had a problem - their position was incredibly niche within the Conservative Parliamentary Party, being the view of nowt but a handful. Is it really the fault of ERG that their position is twenty or thirty times more popular than that of the three who walked?
If they were really that bothered, then work with the far bigger group of MPs than the ERG - that majority across all parties who fear No Deal Brexit, but won't yet agree that May's Deal is the answer.....
On the TIGgers, I agree with those who feel that May will get her deal through. As long as No Deal is the alternative then she will win a vote, and may even get some concessions to ease the passage.
I'd go one step further and suggest that the TIGgers already expect this to happen, and their strategy is to supplant Labour as the major opposition with the primary aim of rejoining.
I'd also agree with those who see a general election as likely. The conservatives have the chance to capitalise on labour in disarray, and the TIGgers not yet organised, and the anti-tory vote split. They can't not seek to take advantage. When this happens, and whether May is leader, are more difficult questions to answer.
I think that’s spot on
TIG don’t want to be a new party. They want to change Labour - they are setting themselves up as a “government in exile”
Wollaston, Allen and Soubry are being played. It would be great for them to return to the fold - I suspect Allen will become a LibDem, Wollaston an independent and Soubry will end up a Tory peer,
None of them will be MPs after the next election
The Tory Three seem, politically, to have got themselves bent way out of shape by their hatred of Brexit. If we had voted to Remain, I doubt any of the three would have made a move. That they were all elected within the past two years on a manifesto commitment to implement Brexit might make their inner turmoil easier to understand. But ethically, it's much harder to see they can just carry on as MPs without offering themselves up for immediate re-election. They are currently sat in the House of Commons under false pretences. Not many other jobs where you could behave as they have done and yet continue to draw your salary.
A novel constitutional theory, based on nothing but your personal prejudices.
When Mark Reckless showed a moral authority that made these shiny new guys look grubby in comparison, then they've got a problem.
The argument that MPs attempting to recast the political landscape are duty bound to self sabotage that effort is not a persuasive one.
Two thirds of the electorate don’t believe their political views are represented by the existing major parties. FPTP gives them little option but a choice between the two - yet at the same time, it is a constitutional commonplace that you elect the MP, not the party.
You're not persuaded. Boo hoo.
One man's "self-sabotage" is another's clinging to a job like a limpet, having lied to get it.....
On the TIGgers, I agree with those who feel that May will get her deal through. As long as No Deal is the alternative then she will win a vote, and may even get some concessions to ease the passage.
I'd go one step further and suggest that the TIGgers already expect this to happen, and their strategy is to supplant Labour as the major opposition with the primary aim of rejoining.
I'd also agree with those who see a general election as likely. The conservatives have the chance to capitalise on labour in disarray, and the TIGgers not yet organised, and the anti-tory vote split. They can't not seek to take advantage. When this happens, and whether May is leader, are more difficult questions to answer.
I think that’s spot on
TIG don’t want to be a new party. They want to change Labour - they are setting themselves up as a “government in exile”
Wollaston, Allen and Soubry are being played. It would be great for them to return to the fold - I suspect Allen will become a LibDem, Wollaston an independent and Soubry will end up a Tory peer,
None of them will be MPs after the next election
The Tory Three seem, politically, to have got themselves bent way out of shape by their hatred of Brexit. If we had voted to Remain, I doubt any of the three would have made a move. That they were all elected within the past two years on a manifesto commitment to implement Brexit might make their inner turmoil easier to understand. But ethically, it's much harder to see they can just carry on as MPs without offering themselves up for immediate re-election. They are currently sat in the House of Commons under false pretences. Not many other jobs where you could behave as they have done and yet continue to draw your salary.
From the soundbites I've heard from Allen et al, it's not just the Brexit vote: it's the fact that Brexit has utterly consumed government, and the backwards-looking, navel-gazing right-wing tendency so eloquently evoked by JRM and his fellow winnets is in control.
This government is not a conservative government. It's barely a Conservative government. Some might say it's not even a government ...
In Allen's case, it's down to being centre-left in outlook (not a left-wing Conservative) and joining a centr-right party by mistake.
Her pitch yesterday was clearly to her constituency - sounding like a Lib Dem - she's also provided the headline 'Destroy the Tory Party' which will make the return of the conservative Conservative Soubry much more difficult.
52% voted for Brexit so please define "the centre" that has been abandoned?
Based on that vote the centre would be pretty much the softest Brexit you could possibly imagine.
Which is what this government is doing pretty much, but you claim its abandoned the centre.
I can only guess you're definining "centre" as 'what I believe in' rather than the actual middle of anything.
No, it's not. It's really not. They're out of the customs union, out of the single market, screwing banking and manufacturing to prioritize restricting immigration. You can make a decent argument that it's about where the centre of the *leave* vote is, but it's definitely not a central position for the referendum voters overall.
PS The British voters definitely don't believe in what I believe in...
Allen et al had a problem - their position was incredibly niche within the Conservative Parliamentary Party, being the view of nowt but a handful. Is it really the fault of ERG that their position is twenty or thirty times more popular than that of the three who walked?
If they were really that bothered, then work with the far bigger group of MPs than the ERG - that majority across all parties who fear No Deal Brexit, but won't yet agree that May's Deal is the answer.....
I'd argue their position is greater amongst Conservative voters - and potential Conservative voters - than it might be amongst the parliamentary party.
There is a significant chance that Brexit is hiding changes in the Conservative Parliamentary Party that will repel many of their voters - that Brexit is being used to hide a general swing to the right.
Allen's my MP, and she's fairly popular: a fact helped by the fact that her Conservative predecessor, Lansley, was an awful constituency MP - invisible and aloof. Allen's been a fairly good one IMO - and have said so in the past on here. Would I vote for her next time? It would depend on what happens and who the other candidates are, but it's not put me off her.
On another point: pity the Lib Dems. They seem a good home for many of these Labour and Conservative splitters, yet didn't even attract them. Cable's killing them.
One man's "self-sabotage" is another's clinging to a job like a limpet, having lied to get it.....
What about Sarah Wollaston, who won her primary and got elected as a Brexiteer, gives the impression of lying to get her job?
I was at the 2017 meeting where Sarah Wollaston was unanimously re-adopted as the Conservative Party candidate, having spoken about how important it was to implement the Brexit decision, even though she had (famously) switched from Leave to Remain part way through the campaign.
On the TIGgers, I agree with those who feel that May will get her deal through. As long as No Deal is the alternative then she will win a vote, and may even get some concessions to ease the passage.
I'd go one step further and suggest that the TIGgers already expect this to happen, and their strategy is to supplant Labour as the major opposition with the primary aim of rejoining.
I'd also agree with those who see a general election as likely. The conservatives have the chance to capitalise on labour in disarray, and the TIGgers not yet organised, and the anti-tory vote split. They can't not seek to take advantage. When this happens, and whether May is leader, are more difficult questions to answer.
I think that’s spot on
TIG don’t want to be a new party. They want to change Labour - they are setting themselves up as a “government in exile”
Wollaston, Allen and Soubry are being played. It would be great for them to return to the fold - I suspect Allen will become a LibDem, Wollaston an independent and Soubry will end up a Tory peer,
None of them will be MPs after the next election
The Tory Three seem, politically, to have got themselves bent way out of shape by their hatred of Brexit. If we had voted to Remain, I doubt any of the three would have made a move. That they were all elected within the past two years on a manifesto commitment to implement Brexit might make their inner turmoil easier to understand. But ethically, it's much harder to see they can just carry on as MPs without offering themselves up for immediate re-election. They are currently sat in the House of Commons under false pretences. Not many other jobs where you could behave as they have done and yet continue to draw your salary.
From the soundbites I've heard from Allen et al, it's not just the Brexit vote: it's the fact that Brexit has utterly consumed government, and the backwards-looking, navel-gazing right-wing tendency so eloquently evoked by JRM and his fellow winnets is in control.
This government is not a conservative government. It's barely a Conservative government. Some might say it's not even a government ...
In Allen's case, it's down to being centre-left in outlook (not a left-wing Conservative) and joining a centr-right party by mistake.
She's my MP, and I think you mischaracterise her. I think she's certainly centre-right economically, and the current Conservative party's economic policies are interesting from a business pov ...
In Scotland i don’t see tig having a big role but I do see the Scottish conservatives becoming g a standalone group. In case of no deal this will be by force. They are younger and more moderate than the tories in England on average.
Is there a betting market on when the Tiggers become the official opposition? Another 100 Labour and 50 Tory defectors should just about do it...
According to Peston up to 1/3 of Tory MPs could quit the party if No Deal and plenty more from Labour would also quit for the new party
You set store by what Peston says?
He's unlikely to be making it up and in any case, it makes sense.
The convulsions of a No Deal Brexit would be bound to produce dramatic political realignments.
I think Peston is marginalised and making things up is his way of getting people to listen
It wasn't said by Peston. It was said on the Peston show by Heidi Allen, who also said even if a significant fraction of the Tory party had serious concerns about how things were going (a) that obviously didn't mean they'd all defect and (b) the Tiggers didn't want them all to defect as they weren't in a position to accommodate that sort of mass influx.
Her own words were (from memory) "2, maybe 3" defectors would be plausible.
In Scotland i don’t see tig having a big role but I do see the Scottish conservatives becoming g a standalone group. In case of no deal this will be by force. They are younger and more moderate than the tories in England on average.
Not in the whole of Scotland, BUT Edinburgh South is very interesting if Ian Murray runs as an independent.
On the TIGgers, I agree with those who feel that May will get her deal through. As long as No Deal is the alternative then she will win a vote, and may even get some concessions to ease the passage.
I'd go one step further and suggest that the TIGgers already expect this to happen, and their strategy is to supplant Labour as the major opposition with the primary aim of rejoining.
I'd also agree with those who see a general election as likely. The conservatives have the chance to capitalise on labour in disarray, and the TIGgers not yet organised, and the anti-tory vote split. They can't not seek to take advantage. When this happens, and whether May is leader, are more difficult questions to answer.
I think that’s spot on
TIG don’t want to be a new party. They want to change Labour - they are setting themselves up as a “government in exile”
Wollaston, Allen and Soubry are being played. It would be great for them to return to the fold - I suspect Allen will become a LibDem, Wollaston an independent and Soubry will end up a Tory peer,
None of them will be MPs after the next election
The Tory Three seem, politically, to have got themselves bent way out of shape by their hatred of Brexit. If we had voted to Remain, I doubt any of the three would have made a move. That they were all elected within the past two years on a manifesto commitment to implement Brexit might make their inner turmoil easier to understand. But ethically, it's much harder to see they can just carry on as MPs without offering themselves up for immediate re-election. They are currently sat in the House of Commons under false pretences. Not many other jobs where you could behave as they have done and yet continue to draw your salary.
From the soundbites I've heard from Allen et al, it's not just the Brexit vote: it's the fact that Brexit has utterly consumed government, and the backwards-looking, navel-gazing right-wing tendency so eloquently evoked by JRM and his fellow winnets is in control.
This government is not a conservative government. It's barely a Conservative government. Some might say it's not even a government ...
In Allen's case, it's down to being centre-left in outlook (not a left-wing Conservative) and joining a centr-right party by mistake.
She's my MP, and I think you mischaracterise her. I think she's certainly centre-right economically, and the current Conservative party's economic policies are interesting from a business pov ...
To me she seems simply a normal person horrified at the company she found herself keeping.
They are Unionists unlike the SNP but believe avoiding hard Brexit is the best way to secure the Union and like the SNP believe hard Brexit would boost the case for Scottish independence
How in this world do you know that they're Unionists?!
Anna Soubry has cheerfully admitted they don't have any agreed policies. They share general principles (market economy and so on) and they are clearly all anti-Brexit; they also agree what they're against. That's as far as it goes for now and on some things they seem incompatible (e.g. the desirability of austerity). I shouldn't think they've given Scottish independence any joint thought at all yet.
On the TIGgers, I agree with those who feel that May will get her deal through. As long as No Deal is the alternative then she will win a vote, and may even get some concessions to ease the passage.
I'd go one step further and suggest that the TIGgers already expect this to happen, and their strategy is to supplant Labour as the major opposition with the primary aim of rejoining.
I'd also agree with those who see a general election as likely. The conservatives have the chance to capitalise on labour in disarray, and the TIGgers not yet organised, and the anti-tory vote split. They can't not seek to take advantage. When this happens, and whether May is leader, are more difficult questions to answer.
I think that’s spot on
TIG don’t want to be a new party. They want to change Labour - they are setting themselves up as a “government in exile”
Wollaston, Allen and Soubry are being played. It would be great for them to return to the gold - I suspect Allen will become a LibDem, Wollaston an independent and Soubry will end up a Tory peer,
Taking a step back the weird thing about this is that Corbyn his broken his party for no particular gain. There's factional control, but there's no bold left-wing agenda - just nationalizing trains and other tinkering, and a position on Brexit that he apparently doesn't particularly care about either way. It's like a supercharged version of the TB-GB stupids.
I suspect that what’s in the manifesto is entirely incidental to what a future Corbyn government would do
The spending commitments aren’t matched by the revenue sources but the rhetoric is very clear that they’d seek to fundamentally change Britain’s economic model.
Wealth taxes on property, large taxes on business, big increases in income tax, taxation/exappropriating savings and abolishing private pensions - together with exchange controls - would all probably be a part of that.
They are Unionists unlike the SNP but believe avoiding hard Brexit is the best way to secure the Union and like the SNP believe hard Brexit would boost the case for Scottish independence
How in this world do you know that they're Unionists?!
Anna Soubry has cheerfully admitted they don't have any agreed policies. They share general principles (market economy and so on) and they are clearly all anti-Brexit; they also agree what they're against. That's as far as it goes for now and on some things they seem incompatible (e.g. the desirability of austerity). I shouldn't think they've given Scottish independence any joint thought at all yet.
I don’t think that’s true. If the New Statesman event I went to last night is anything to go by the general consensus inside Labour, at least, is that Brexit will lead to Scotland leaving the UK. And this time last week most of the TIGs were inside Labour.
In Scotland i don’t see tig having a big role but I do see the Scottish conservatives becoming g a standalone group. In case of no deal this will be by force. They are younger and more moderate than the tories in England on average.
Even more useless as well. They are a branch office bunch of sockpuppets and could not run a bath on their own. They will remain nobodies.
On the TIGgers, I agree with those who feel that May will get her deal through. As long as No Deal is the alternative then she will win a vote, and may even get some concessions to ease the passage.
I'd go one step further and suggest that the TIGgers already expect this to happen, and their strategy is to supplant Labour as the major opposition with the primary aim of rejoining.
I'd also agree with those who see a general election as likely. The conservatives have the chance to capitalise on labour in disarray, and the TIGgers not yet organised, and the anti-tory vote split. They can't not seek to take advantage. When this happens, and whether May is leader, are more difficult questions to answer.
I think that’s spot on
TIG don’t want to be a new party. They want to change Labour - they are setting themselves up as a “government in exile”
Wollaston, Allen and Soubry are being played. It would be great for them to return to the gold - I suspect Allen will become a LibDem, Wollaston an independent and Soubry will end up a Tory peer,
None of them will be MPs after the next election
That is certainly one interpretation - and for someone like Gapes, he never wanted to leave Labour or become a third party, and would be very happy if by some magic process the old Labour Party reappeared and took him back in,
On the other hand the public thirst is for something new (if ill-defined) and there is appetite for political change. The environment is far more conducive to this now than back in 1981. So it will depend to a large extent on whether this new 'movement' gets traction - support, members, finance, councillors - and how quickly.
They are Unionists unlike the SNP but believe avoiding hard Brexit is the best way to secure the Union and like the SNP believe hard Brexit would boost the case for Scottish independence
How in this world do you know that they're Unionists?!
Anna Soubry has cheerfully admitted they don't have any agreed policies. They share general principles (market economy and so on) and they are clearly all anti-Brexit; they also agree what they're against. That's as far as it goes for now and on some things they seem incompatible (e.g. the desirability of austerity). I shouldn't think they've given Scottish independence any joint thought at all yet.
They’ll all be against Scottish Independence.
Nothing to do with them in any case, it is for Scotland and Scottish politicians to decide what we do, not these losers.
They are Unionists unlike the SNP but believe avoiding hard Brexit is the best way to secure the Union and like the SNP believe hard Brexit would boost the case for Scottish independence
How in this world do you know that they're Unionists?!
Anna Soubry has cheerfully admitted they don't have any agreed policies. They share general principles (market economy and so on) and they are clearly all anti-Brexit; they also agree what they're against. That's as far as it goes for now and on some things they seem incompatible (e.g. the desirability of austerity). I shouldn't think they've given Scottish independence any joint thought at all yet.
They’ll all be against Scottish Independence.
They ARE against Scottish Independence - both Allen and Shuker said so very clearly on Peston.
Which probably helps the SNP by splitting the unionist vote further, provided the nationalists can avoid losing some of their vote to a party on broadly the same ground.
On the TIGgers, I agree with those who feel that May will get her deal through. As long as No Deal is the alternative then she will win a vote, and may even get some concessions to ease the passage.
I'd go one step further and suggest that the TIGgers already expect this to happen, and their strategy is to supplant Labour as the major opposition with the primary aim of rejoining.
I'd also agree with those who see a general election as likely. The conservatives have the chance to capitalise on labour in disarray, and the TIGgers not yet organised, and the anti-tory vote split. They can't not seek to take advantage. When this happens, and whether May is leader, are more difficult questions to answer.
I think that’s spot on
Wollaston, Allen and Soubry are being played. It would be great for them to return to the fold - I suspect Allen will become a LibDem, Wollaston an independent and Soubry will end up a Tory peer,
None of them will be MPs after the next election
The Tory Three seem, politically, to have got themselves bent way out of shape by their hatred of Brexit. If we had voted to Remain, I doubt any of the three would have made a move. That they were all elected within the past two years on a manifesto commitment to implement Brexit might make their inner turmoil easier to understand. But ethically, it's much harder to see they can just carry on as MPs without offering themselves up for immediate re-election. They are currently sat in the House of Commons under false pretences. Not many other jobs where you could behave as they have done and yet continue to draw your salary.
From the soundbites I've heard from Allen et al, it's not just the Brexit vote: it's the fact that Brexit has utterly consumed government, and the backwards-looking, navel-gazing right-wing tendency so eloquently evoked by JRM and his fellow winnets is in control.
This government is not a conservative government. It's barely a Conservative government. Some might say it's not even a government ...
In Allen's case, it's down to being centre-left in outlook (not a left-wing Conservative) and joining a centr-right party by mistake.
Her pitch yesterday was clearly to her constituency - sounding like a Lib Dem - she's also provided the headline 'Destroy the Tory Party' which will make the return of the conservative Conservative Soubry much more difficult.
I’m not losing too much sleep over Wollaston and Allen.
Soubry and Grieve are Conservatives, though, if not precisely from my wing, so I can only conclude Brexit is driving them out.
One man's "self-sabotage" is another's clinging to a job like a limpet, having lied to get it.....
What about Sarah Wollaston, who won her primary and got elected as a Brexiteer, gives the impression of lying to get her job?
I was at the 2017 meeting where Sarah Wollaston was unanimously re-adopted as the Conservative Party candidate, having spoken about how important it was to implement the Brexit decision, even though she had (famously) switched from Leave to Remain part way through the campaign.
So yes, I've got skin in this game.
She’s the turncoat’s turncoat.
I think she still has a few more spins of the wheel in her. It’s a surprise anyone trusts her.
They are Unionists unlike the SNP but believe avoiding hard Brexit is the best way to secure the Union and like the SNP believe hard Brexit would boost the case for Scottish independence
How in this world do you know that they're Unionists?!
Anna Soubry has cheerfully admitted they don't have any agreed policies. They share general principles (market economy and so on) and they are clearly all anti-Brexit; they also agree what they're against. That's as far as it goes for now and on some things they seem incompatible (e.g. the desirability of austerity). I shouldn't think they've given Scottish independence any joint thought at all yet.
They’ll all be against Scottish Independence.
Nothing to do with them in any case, it is for Scotland and Scottish politicians to decide what we do, not these losers.
It is, but it won’t stop them having an opinion and speaking out accordingly, just as EU politicians and bureaucrats do about the UK and Brexit.
Big picture. The 2017 vote share is likely to become something the left go on about for the next fifty years. The Brexit effect will be forgotten. It will be much like the way the 1983 result got trotted out to prove that left wing policies repel voters, forgetting the Falklands and the Alliance had quite a lot to do with it.
On the TIGgers, I agree with those who feel that May will get her deal through. As long as No Deal is the alternative then she will win a vote, and may even get some concessions to ease the passage.
I'd go one step further and suggest that the TIGgers already expect this to happen, and their strategy is to supplant Labour as the major opposition with the primary aim of rejoining.
I'd also agree with those who see a general election as likely. The conservatives have the chance to capitalise on labour in disarray, and the TIGgers not yet organised, and the anti-tory vote split. They can't not seek to take advantage. When this happens, and whether May is leader, are more difficult questions to answer.
I think that’s spot on
TIG don’t want to be a new party. They want to change Labour - they are setting themselves up as a “government in exile”
Wollaston, Allen and Soubry are being played. It would be great for them to return to the gold - I suspect Allen will become a LibDem, Wollaston an independent and Soubry will end up a Tory peer,
None of them will be MPs after the next election
I think that depends very much on when the next election is.
I don’t think there’ll be any returning to the fold. The Tory party has become the party of Brexit, with a membership dominated by the elderly and the right, and I cannot see any means by which they might attract new moderate members to rebalance that any time soon. Brexit is only the lever, but it could prove powerful enough to break apart the Tory coalition.
Of course their gamble might easily fail, but it doesn’t change the fact that the Tories have abandoned the centre as Labour have.
52% voted for Brexit so please define "the centre" that has been abandoned?
Actual enthusiasm for no deal Brexit is and always was an extreme minority view. Yet in the Tory Party it is rife.
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
I don’t know why people pay so much attention to Owen Jones.
This is his life - his Twitter audience and media profile - it’s all he has.
He cuts a rather sad lonely figure and I actually feel sorry for him.
Does he actually have a regular job with anyone, or does he earn his money hustling a couple of hundred quid a time as a TV talking head and freelance opinion writer?
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
Did anyone ask these three if they voted against May in December? I seem to remember Soubry said she backed May. I’m struggling to see what the point of this is if they don’t want to bring down the government. I think Corbyn should go for another confidence vote to see if the tiggers have it in them to vote against the government.
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
There's no moving on, all the difficult decisions have been punted into the next two years.
I don’t know why people pay so much attention to Owen Jones.
This is his life - his Twitter audience and media profile - it’s all he has.
He cuts a rather sad lonely figure and I actually feel sorry for him.
Does he actually have a regular job with anyone, or does he earn his money hustling a couple of hundred quid a time as a TV talking head and freelance opinion writer?
He’s a Guardian staffer, I think, and earns bits and pueces elsewhere. He’s also done pretty well out of a couple of books he wrote a while back before he became totally deranged.
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
May's deal simply resets the argument to the beginning with another two years for us all to enjoy hearing it.
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
Soubry’s personality didn’t help her and I think she got tired of getting as good as she gave.
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
Her basic pitch seems to be that the Tories have moved well to the right. That won’t change after 29th March. At some point the FTA negotiations will begin. They will be even more all-encompassing and will lead to big rows on any number of issues, including immigration - an issue that Soubry feels very strongly about.
So how many more defections from Labour today? I’m going for 2 with another couple tomorrow.
There will be more.
This has got legs now and has well pitched, with the polling showing it won’t be a disaster, so it could run and expand for quite some time.
Good morning everyone, and weather-wise it looks to be so here!
In a way I don't think Labour defections will be much of a story. The world and his wife know that that there's unhappiness at, at least Corbyn's equivocation. Tory ones, however, would be a different matter.
The prospect of Corbyn "losing it" with these drip drip defections is not too far away, and something I would really like to see.
The defections are dangerous for the Tories if mor centrists leave. At the moment the bigger danger is for Labour as the real problem is a leader who won't go. For all her faults May is less divisive in the party than Corbyn. His response thus far may well provoke a bigger rupture.
Good morning, my fellow denizens of the Hundred Acre Wood.
Last day of the first test. There's another fairly shortly. Williams will be hoping to lay down some mileage.
Williams looked good yesterday, as it finally got on to the track. They're being rather coy about exactly what happened, but the rumour is that a couple of major parts arrived late from suppliers due to late specifications from the team. Hopefully it's just a minor embarrassment rather than symptoms of something more serious.
Second test is next week, Tuesday to Friday, also in Barcelona.
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
May's deal simply resets the argument to the beginning with another two years for us all to enjoy hearing it.
In theory yes but in reality I think that we will find that much of the "transition" becomes permanent. Which I personally am reasonably happy with.
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
Did anyone ask these three if they voted against May in December? I seem to remember Soubry said she backed May. I’m struggling to see what the point of this is if they don’t want to bring down the government. I think Corbyn should go for another confidence vote to see if the tiggers have it in them to vote against the government.
It won't carry. I think a GE is less likely now, except in the case of a complete government collapse. Moving from bipolar toward potentially three-way politics, there is likely to be a critical mass against an early GE, even if the composition of that mass moves around. Right now TIG/LD don't want a GE and they have Corbyn's failure on PV as a handy excuse for not backing one.
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
There's no moving on, all the difficult decisions have been punted into the next two years.
The Tory response to the defections thus far seems to be to pretend that nothing of any importance has happened.
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
May's deal simply resets the argument to the beginning with another two years for us all to enjoy hearing it.
In theory yes but in reality I think that we will find that much of the "transition" becomes permanent. Which I personally am reasonably happy with.
And the ERG will simply accept this and concentrate on this year's gardening? Right.
So how many more defections from Labour today? I’m going for 2 with another couple tomorrow.
There will be more.
This has got legs now and has well pitched, with the polling showing it won’t be a disaster, so it could run and expand for quite some time.
Good morning everyone, and weather-wise it looks to be so here!
In a way I don't think Labour defections will be much of a story. The world and his wife know that that there's unhappiness at, at least Corbyn's equivocation. Tory ones, however, would be a different matter.
One at a time defections won't achieve anything in a news cycle already digesting this week's changes. TIG are sensible if they have, as rumoured, a batch of Labour defections lined up for early next week. The problem then becomes maintaining the balance; whether or not Boles, Lee and co are readying for a departure is less than clear.
I don’t know why people pay so much attention to Owen Jones.
This is his life - his Twitter audience and media profile - it’s all he has.
He cuts a rather sad lonely figure and I actually feel sorry for him.
Does he actually have a regular job with anyone, or does he earn his money hustling a couple of hundred quid a time as a TV talking head and freelance opinion writer?
He’s a Guardian staffer, I think, and earns bits and pueces elsewhere. He’s also done pretty well out of a couple of books he wrote a while back before he became totally deranged.
Okay, so his attention-seeking is because he's becoming totally deranged, as opposed to being deliberately controversial for the hell of it because he's got a London-sized mortgage that needs paying.
Good morning, my fellow denizens of the Hundred Acre Wood.
Last day of the first test. There's another fairly shortly. Williams will be hoping to lay down some mileage.
Williams looked good yesterday, as it finally got on to the track. They're being rather coy about exactly what happened, but the rumour is that a couple of major parts arrived late from suppliers due to late specifications from the team. Hopefully it's just a minor embarrassment rather than symptoms of something more serious.
Second test is next week, Tuesday to Friday, also in Barcelona.
There is reportedly serious disquiet over a Paddy Lowe’s inability to manage development.
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
May's deal simply resets the argument to the beginning with another two years for us all to enjoy hearing it.
In theory yes but in reality I think that we will find that much of the "transition" becomes permanent. Which I personally am reasonably happy with.
So the only way we actually leave is that we no longer have MEPs and representation at the meetings, while we have to meekly accept every new regulation they throw at us?
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
Her basic pitch seems to be that the Tories have moved well to the right. That won’t change after 29th March. At some point the FTA negotiations will begin. They will be even more all-encompassing and will lead to big rows on any number of issues, including immigration - an issue that Soubry feels very strongly about.
But, Brexit apart (which is not really a left/right issue at all) what is the evidence for that? This government has yet to find a problem to which more public spending is not the answer. The last 2 budgets have abandoned any pretense of austerity. As a result the overall tax burden edges up rather than down and deficit reduction is in the lap of economic growth.
Does anyone seriously think we are not going to see more of this? It is quite clear that Amber Rudd does not believe for a minute that UC is fit for purpose in its current form. We have got the recent decision by Javid but does anyone really think that any responsible Home Secretary could do anything else? The government seems more focused on Ed Miliband's manifesto than their own.
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
Her basic pitch seems to be that the Tories have moved well to the right. That won’t change after 29th March. At some point the FTA negotiations will begin. They will be even more all-encompassing and will lead to big rows on any number of issues, including immigration - an issue that Soubry feels very strongly about.
But, Brexit apart (which is not really a left/right issue at all) what is the evidence for that? This government has yet to find a problem to which more public spending is not the answer. The last 2 budgets have abandoned any pretense of austerity. As a result the overall tax burden edges up rather than down and deficit reduction is in the lap of economic growth.
Does anyone seriously think we are not going to see more of this? It is quite clear that Amber Rudd does not believe for a minute that UC is fit for purpose in its current form. We have got the recent decision by Javid but does anyone really think that any responsible Home Secretary could do anything else? The government seems more focused on Ed Miliband's manifesto than their own.
Brexit is very much a left/right issue. The political voices in favour are overwhelmingly reactionary nationalists.
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
Did anyone ask these three if they voted against May in December? I seem to remember Soubry said she backed May. I’m struggling to see what the point of this is if they don’t want to bring down the government. I think Corbyn should go for another confidence vote to see if the tiggers have it in them to vote against the government.
It won't carry. I think a GE is less likely now, except in the case of a complete government collapse. Moving from bipolar toward potentially three-way politics, there is likely to be a critical mass against an early GE, even if the composition of that mass moves around. Right now TIG/LD don't want a GE and they have Corbyn's failure on PV as a handy excuse for not backing one.
It depends on whether the Tories think the Independents are more dangerous to Labour or themselves in (a) the short-term and (b) the long-term. In thr short term they are clearly doing Labour more damage, but limited by the absence of ground organisation or candidates. A quick election to benefit from Labour disarray could be tempting. If they're confident that lots of Independent candidates will hurt Labour more, better to wait till the Indies sort themselves out and can stand all over the place. But then they might take a lot of votes from what is still a dysfunctional government.
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
May's deal simply resets the argument to the beginning with another two years for us all to enjoy hearing it.
In theory yes but in reality I think that we will find that much of the "transition" becomes permanent. Which I personally am reasonably happy with.
And the ERG will simply accept this and concentrate on this year's gardening? Right.
No, they will continue to be a thorn in May's side as they have been with every leader since Major. But the reason they are fighting so hard against the WA is that they too recognise that while things can change they probably won't.
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
There's no moving on, all the difficult decisions have been punted into the next two years.
The Tory response to the defections thus far seems to be to pretend that nothing of any importance has happened.
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
Her basic pitch seems to be that the Tories have moved well to the right. That won’t change after 29th March. At some point the FTA negotiations will begin. They will be even more all-encompassing and will lead to big rows on any number of issues, including immigration - an issue that Soubry feels very strongly about.
But, Brexit apart (which is not really a left/right issue at all) what is the evidence for that? This government has yet to find a problem to which more public spending is not the answer. The last 2 budgets have abandoned any pretense of austerity. As a result the overall tax burden edges up rather than down and deficit reduction is in the lap of economic growth.
Does anyone seriously think we are not going to see more of this? It is quite clear that Amber Rudd does not believe for a minute that UC is fit for purpose in its current form. We have got the recent decision by Javid but does anyone really think that any responsible Home Secretary could do anything else? The government seems more focused on Ed Miliband's manifesto than their own.
Brexit apart is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Earlier this week Sajid Javid essentially decided to deprive a days old, entirely innocent baby of its right to be brought up in the UK because he wants to lead the Conservative party. He knows his constituency, as does Anna Soubry.
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
Did anyone ask these three if they voted against May in December? I seem to remember Soubry said she backed May. I’m struggling to see what the point of this is if they don’t want to bring down the government. I think Corbyn should go for another confidence vote to see if the tiggers have it in them to vote against the government.
It won't carry. I think a GE is less likely now, except in the case of a complete government collapse. Moving from bipolar toward potentially three-way politics, there is likely to be a critical mass against an early GE, even if the composition of that mass moves around. Right now TIG/LD don't want a GE and they have Corbyn's failure on PV as a handy excuse for not backing one.
It depends on whether the Tories think the Independents are more dangerous to Labour or themselves in (a) the short-term and (b) the long-term. In thr short term they are clearly doing Labour more damage, but limited by the absence of ground organisation or candidates. A quick election to benefit from Labour disarray could be tempting. If they're confident that lots of Independent candidates will hurt Labour more, better to wait till the Indies sort themselves out and can stand all over the place. But then they might take a lot of votes from what is still a dysfunctional government.
Government cannot responsibly call an election until we are past the Brexit crisis. After that depends on how it turns out, and on whether TIG is gathering sufficient momentum to represent a threat to the Tories as well.
Also we shouldn't overlook that going to the country early is made much more difficult for the Tories, internally and with the public, because they have done it once already.
Good morning, my fellow denizens of the Hundred Acre Wood.
Last day of the first test. There's another fairly shortly. Williams will be hoping to lay down some mileage.
Williams looked good yesterday, as it finally got on to the track. They're being rather coy about exactly what happened, but the rumour is that a couple of major parts arrived late from suppliers due to late specifications from the team. Hopefully it's just a minor embarrassment rather than symptoms of something more serious.
Second test is next week, Tuesday to Friday, also in Barcelona.
There is reportedly serious disquiet over a Paddy Lowe’s inability to manage development.
Paddy could be in real trouble, but apparently he's now a shareholder in the team rather than simply an employee, so it's going to cost a lot to buy him out. More likely is they hire an experienced project manager to work alongside him, but Claire and the Board should have realised this last year. They should have managed Paddy more closely - not getting the car to the first test on time shouldn't be an option.
So how many more defections from Labour today? I’m going for 2 with another couple tomorrow.
There will be more.
This has got legs now and has well pitched, with the polling showing it won’t be a disaster, so it could run and expand for quite some time.
Good morning everyone, and weather-wise it looks to be so here!
In a way I don't think Labour defections will be much of a story. The world and his wife know that that there's unhappiness at, at least Corbyn's equivocation. Tory ones, however, would be a different matter.
One at a time defections won't achieve anything in a news cycle already digesting this week's changes. TIG are sensible if they have, as rumoured, a batch of Labour defections lined up for early next week. The problem then becomes maintaining the balance; whether or not Boles, Lee and co are readying for a departure is less than clear.
If they want to try and influence Brexit policy, particularly trying to progress Labour to the conclusion of its policy and a second referendum call, there needs to be both a Within and Without element, and good contacts between Tiggers and senior people in the Corbyn sceptical but stay Labour wing. Defections keep the pressure up, but too many and you lose the Within element.
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
May's deal simply resets the argument to the beginning with another two years for us all to enjoy hearing it.
In theory yes but in reality I think that we will find that much of the "transition" becomes permanent. Which I personally am reasonably happy with.
So the only way we actually leave is that we no longer have MEPs and representation at the meetings, while we have to meekly accept every new regulation they throw at us?
Which was pretty obviously where we would more likely end up before we even started. We being those of us that live here.
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
May's deal simply resets the argument to the beginning with another two years for us all to enjoy hearing it.
In theory yes but in reality I think that we will find that much of the "transition" becomes permanent. Which I personally am reasonably happy with.
So the only way we actually leave is that we no longer have MEPs and representation at the meetings, while we have to meekly accept every new regulation they throw at us?
And we will no longer be in the CAP, the CFP, will no longer have FoM (although immigration is unlikely to fall much given our shortage of labour), will have much greater discretion and accountability in social and employment matters, there will be no direct effect regulations, we will not be subject to the CJEU, our responsibility to implement directives will be limited to SM issues and we will have a choice, albeit a choice with significant consequences if we don't. Its a soft Brexit but no one will be able to say May has not delivered Brexit.
My guess is that we will end up with the CU as well, its just too damn convenient, but that will be the trickiest bit for May to sell.
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
May's deal simply resets the argument to the beginning with another two years for us all to enjoy hearing it.
In theory yes but in reality I think that we will find that much of the "transition" becomes permanent. Which I personally am reasonably happy with.
So the only way we actually leave is that we no longer have MEPs and representation at the meetings, while we have to meekly accept every new regulation they throw at us?
Which was pretty obviously where we would more likely end up before we even started. We being those of us that live here.
Politics is about values not manifestos. That's the basis on which people vote. Bleating about standing on Labour's manifesto is as anacronistic a concept as Corbyn himself.
Soubry and Grieve are Conservatives, though, if not precisely from my wing, so I can only conclude Brexit is driving them out.
I'm not a fan, but Soubry has always been a centrist - she was an SDP supporter. She is vigorously liberal on social issues, e.g. held a public meeting in her constituncy to confront evangelicals over gay marriage. I'd be surprised if she returned to the Tories.
Grieve, by contrast, is undoubtedly solidly Conservative, and merely disagrees on one issue. The Tories would be idiots to force him out.
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
Her basic pitch seems to be that the Tories have moved well to the right. That won’t change after 29th March. At some point the FTA negotiations will begin. They will be even more all-encompassing and will lead to big rows on any number of issues, including immigration - an issue that Soubry feels very strongly about.
But, Brexit apart (which is not really a left/right issue at all) what is the evidence for that? This government has yet to find a problem to which more public spending is not the answer. The last 2 budgets have abandoned any pretense of austerity. As a result the overall tax burden edges up rather than down and deficit reduction is in the lap of economic growth.
Does anyone seriously think we are not going to see more of this? It is quite clear that Amber Rudd does not believe for a minute that UC is fit for purpose in its current form. We have got the recent decision by Javid but does anyone really think that any responsible Home Secretary could do anything else? The government seems more focused on Ed Miliband's manifesto than their own.
Brexit apart is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Earlier this week Sajid Javid essentially decided to deprive a days old, entirely innocent baby of its right to be brought up in the UK because he wants to lead the Conservative party. He knows his constituency, as does Anna Soubry.
I understand that he has acknowledged that the children are British and have the right to reside here. Their mother is a different story.
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
May's deal simply resets the argument to the beginning with another two years for us all to enjoy hearing it.
In theory yes but in reality I think that we will find that much of the "transition" becomes permanent. Which I personally am reasonably happy with.
So the only way we actually leave is that we no longer have MEPs and representation at the meetings, while we have to meekly accept every new regulation they throw at us?
And we will no longer be in the CAP, the CFP, will no longer have FoM (although immigration is unlikely to fall much given our shortage of labour), will have much greater discretion and accountability in social and employment matters, there will be no direct effect regulations, we will not be subject to the CJEU, our responsibility to implement directives will be limited to SM issues and we will have a choice, albeit a choice with significant consequences if we don't. Its a soft Brexit but no one will be able to say May has not delivered Brexit.
My guess is that we will end up with the CU as well, its just too damn convenient, but that will be the trickiest bit for May to sell.
But all of those things continue as-is during the transition period though, the deal (if agreed) takes effect from after the transition period finishes. So an indefinite transition would still leave us paying in billions a year and subject to freedom of movement.
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
Her basic pitch seems to be that the Tories have moved well to the right. That won’t change after 29th March. At some point the FTA negotiations will begin. They will be even more all-encompassing and will lead to big rows on any number of issues, including immigration - an issue that Soubry feels very strongly about.
But, Brexit apart (which is not really a left/right issue at all) what is the evidence for that? This government has yet to find a problem to which more public spending is not the answer. The last 2 budgets have abandoned any pretense of austerity. As a result the overall tax burden edges up rather than down and deficit reduction is in the lap of economic growth.
Does anyone seriously think we are not going to see more of this? It is quite clear that Amber Rudd does not believe for a minute that UC is fit for purpose in its current form. We have got the recent decision by Javid but does anyone really think that any responsible Home Secretary could do anything else? The government seems more focused on Ed Miliband's manifesto than their own.
Brexit is very much a left/right issue. The political voices in favour are overwhelmingly reactionary nationalists.
Try telling Corbyn that. He, and the Bennite tradition he comes from, have always regarded the EU as a capitalist club designed to do down workers. He has been clear about that his entire Parliamentary career.
Soubry and Grieve are Conservatives, though, if not precisely from my wing, so I can only conclude Brexit is driving them out.
I'm not a fan, but Soubry has always been a centrist - she was an SDP supporter. She is vigorously liberal on social issues, e.g. held a public meeting in her constituncy to confront evangelicals over gay marriage. I'd be surprised if she returned to the Tories.
Grieve, by contrast, is undoubtedly solidly Conservative, and merely disagrees on one issue. The Tories would be idiots to force him out.
What do you think would happen in Broxtowe, if there was an election shortly with AS standing as an independent?
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
Her basic pitch seems to be that the Tories have moved well to the right. That won’t change after 29th March. At some point the FTA negotiations will begin. They will be even more all-encompassing and will lead to big rows on any number of issues, including immigration - an issue that Soubry feels very strongly about.
But, Brexit apart (which is not really a left/right issue at all) what is the evidence for that? This government has yet to find a problem to which more public spending is not the answer. The last 2 budgets have abandoned any pretense of austerity. As a result the overall tax burden edges up rather than down and deficit reduction is in the lap of economic growth.
Does anyone seriously think we are not going to see more of this? It is quite clear that Amber Rudd does not believe for a minute that UC is fit for purpose in its current form. We have got the recent decision by Javid but does anyone really think that any responsible Home Secretary could do anything else? The government seems more focused on Ed Miliband's manifesto than their own.
Brexit is very much a left/right issue. The political voices in favour are overwhelmingly reactionary nationalists.
Try telling Corbyn that. He, and the Bennite tradition he comes from, have always regarded the EU as a capitalist club designed to do down workers. He has been clear about that his entire Parliamentary career.
Corbynite Brexit is not in charge. Weird Conservative nutters are.
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
Her basic pitch seems to be that the Tories have moved well to the right. That won’t change after 29th March. At some point the FTA negotiations will begin. They will be even more all-encompassing and will lead to big rows on any number of issues, including immigration - an issue that Soubry feels very strongly about.
But, Brexit apart (which is not really a left/right issue at all) what is the evidence for that? This government has yet to find a problem to which more public spending is not the answer. The last 2 budgets have abandoned any pretense of austerity. As a result the overall tax burden edges up rather than down and deficit reduction is in the lap of economic growth.
Does anyone seriously think we are not going to see more of this? It is quite clear that Amber Rudd does not believe for a minute that UC is fit for purpose in its current form. We have got the recent decision by Javid but does anyone really think that any responsible Home Secretary could do anything else? The government seems more focused on Ed Miliband's manifesto than their own.
Brexit apart is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. Earlier this week Sajid Javid essentially decided to deprive a days old, entirely innocent baby of its right to be brought up in the UK because he wants to lead the Conservative party. He knows his constituency, as does Anna Soubry.
I understand that he has acknowledged that the children are British and have the right to reside here. Their mother is a different story.
Sure - but the practical effect is the baby will be denied its right to be brought up in the UK. Sajid knows this.
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
Her basic pitch seems to be that the Tories have moved well to the right. That won’t change after 29th March. At some point the FTA negotiations will begin. They will be even more all-encompassing and will lead to big rows on any number of issues, including immigration - an issue that Soubry feels very strongly about.
But, Brexit apart (which is not really a left/right issue at all) what is the evidence for that? This government has yet to find a problem to which more public spending is not the answer. The last 2 budgets have abandoned any pretense of austerity. As a result the overall tax burden edges up rather than down and deficit reduction is in the lap of economic growth.
Does anyone seriously think we are not going to see more of this? It is quite clear that Amber Rudd does not believe for a minute that UC is fit for purpose in its current form. We have got the recent decision by Javid but does anyone really think that any responsible Home Secretary could do anything else? The government seems more focused on Ed Miliband's manifesto than their own.
Brexit is very much a left/right issue. The political voices in favour are overwhelmingly reactionary nationalists.
I disagree that it is very much a left/right issue, but as a leave voter myself, I think voting to leave the EU was marginally a left of centre thing to do (even if most of the leave voters are probably to the right of centre).
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
May's deal simply resets the argument to the beginning with another two years for us all to enjoy hearing it.
In theory yes but in reality I think that we will find that much of the "transition" becomes permanent. Which I personally am reasonably happy with.
So the only way we actually leave is that we no longer have MEPs and representation at the meetings, while we have to meekly accept every new regulation they throw at us?
And we will no longer be in the CAP, the CFP, will no longer have FoM (although immigration is unlikely to fall much given our shortage of labour), will have much greater discretion and accountability in social and employment matters, there will be no direct effect regulations, we will not be subject to the CJEU, our responsibility to implement directives will be limited to SM issues and we will have a choice, albeit a choice with significant consequences if we don't. Its a soft Brexit but no one will be able to say May has not delivered Brexit.
My guess is that we will end up with the CU as well, its just too damn convenient, but that will be the trickiest bit for May to sell.
But all of those things continue as-is during the transition period though, the deal (if agreed) takes effect from after the transition period finishes. So an indefinite transition would still leave us paying in billions a year and subject to freedom of movement.
That is not my reading of the WA. Existing rights are protected but there is not unlimited FoM thereafter. But I need to go so I can't quote chapter and verse right now.
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
Her basic pitch seems to be that the Tories have moved well to the right. That won’t change after 29th March. At some point the FTA negotiations will begin. They will be even more all-encompassing and will lead to big rows on any number of issues, including immigration - an issue that Soubry feels very strongly about.
But, Brexit apart (which is not really a left/right issue at all) what is the evidence for that? This government has yet to find a problem to which more public spending is not the answer. The last 2 budgets have abandoned any pretense of austerity. As a result the overall tax burden edges up rather than down and deficit reduction is in the lap of economic growth.
Does anyone seriously think we are not going to see more of this? It is quite clear that Amber Rudd does not believe for a minute that UC is fit for purpose in its current form. We have got the recent decision by Javid but does anyone really think that any responsible Home Secretary could do anything else? The government seems more focused on Ed Miliband's manifesto than their own.
Earlier this week Sajid Javid essentially decided to deprive a days old, entirely innocent baby of its right to be brought up in the UK because he wants to lead the Conservative party.
Home secretary Sajid Javid yesterday left the door open for Islamic State bride Shamima Begum's baby boy to come to Britain.
He told the Commons Begum’s ban from returning to Britain will have no impact on her baby son’s nationality.
Javid said: “Children should not suffer. So, if a parent does lose their British citizenship, it does not affect the rights of their child.”
I don’t know why people pay so much attention to Owen Jones.
This is his life - his Twitter audience and media profile - it’s all he has.
He cuts a rather sad lonely figure and I actually feel sorry for him.
Does he actually have a regular job with anyone, or does he earn his money hustling a couple of hundred quid a time as a TV talking head and freelance opinion writer?
He’s a Guardian staffer, I think, and earns bits and pueces elsewhere. He’s also done pretty well out of a couple of books he wrote a while back before he became totally deranged.
Okay, so his attention-seeking is because he's becoming totally deranged, as opposed to being deliberately controversial for the hell of it because he's got a London-sized mortgage that needs paying.
Part of it is that he very vocally went against Corbyn in the run up to the 2017 election and, while he later recanted, he has not been forgiven.
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
Her basic pitch seems to be that the Tories have moved well to the right. That won’t change after 29th March. At some point the FTA negotiations will begin. They will be even more all-encompassing and will lead to big rows on any number of issues, including immigration - an issue that Soubry feels very strongly about.
But, Brexit apart (which is not really a left/right issue at all) what is the evidence for that? This government has yet to find a problem to which more public spending is not the answer. The last 2 budgets have abandoned any pretense of austerity. As a result the overall tax burden edges up rather than down and deficit reduction is in the lap of economic growth.
Does anyone seriously think we are not going to see more of this? It is quite clear that Amber Rudd does not believe for a minute that UC is fit for purpose in its current form. We have got the recent decision by Javid but does anyone really think that any responsible Home Secretary could do anything else? The government seems more focused on Ed Miliband's manifesto than their own.
Brexit is very much a left/right issue. The political voices in favour are overwhelmingly reactionary nationalists.
Try telling Corbyn that. He, and the Bennite tradition he comes from, have always regarded the EU as a capitalist club designed to do down workers. He has been clear about that his entire Parliamentary career.
Corbynite Brexit is not in charge. Weird Conservative nutters are.
Alastair, that is not the point. The point is that there are supporters (and opponents) of Brexit on both the left and the right.
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
May's deal simply resets the argument to the beginning with another two years for us all to enjoy hearing it.
In theory yes but in reality I think that we will find that much of the "transition" becomes permanent. Which I personally am reasonably happy with.
So the only way we actually leave is that we no longer have MEPs and representation at the meetings, while we have to meekly accept every new regulation they throw at us?
And we will no longer be in the CAP, the CFP, will no longer have FoM (although immigration is unlikely to fall much given our shortage of labour), will have much greater discretion and accountability in social and employment matters, there will be no direct effect regulations, we will not be subject to the CJEU, our responsibility to implement directives will be limited to SM issues and we will have a choice, albeit a choice with significant consequences if we don't. Its a soft Brexit but no one will be able to say May has not delivered Brexit.
My guess is that we will end up with the CU as well, its just too damn convenient, but that will be the trickiest bit for May to sell.
But all of those things continue as-is during the transition period though, the deal (if agreed) takes effect from after the transition period finishes. So an indefinite transition would still leave us paying in billions a year and subject to freedom of movement.
There will not be an indefinite transition, just GB stays in the Customs Union until a trading agreement arranged which is enough the backstop no longer needs to apply for NI
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
Her basic pitch seems to be that the Tories have moved well to the right. That won’t change after 29th March. At some point the FTA negotiations will begin. They will be even more all-encompassing and will lead to big rows on any number of issues, including immigration - an issue that Soubry feels very strongly about.
But, Brexit apart (which is not really a left/right issue at all) what is the evidence for that? This government has yet to find a problem to which more public spending is not the answer. The last 2 budgets have abandoned any pretense of austerity. As a result the overall tax burden edges up rather than down and deficit reduction is in the lap of economic growth.
Does anyone seriously think we are not going to see more of this? It is quite clear that Amber Rudd does not believe for a minute that UC is fit for purpose in its current form. We have got the recent decision by Javid but does anyone really think that any responsible Home Secretary could do anything else? The government seems more focused on Ed Miliband's manifesto than their own.
Brexit is very much a left/right issue. The political voices in favour are overwhelmingly reactionary nationalists.
Try telling Corbyn that. He, and the Bennite tradition he comes from, have always regarded the EU as a capitalist club designed to do down workers. He has been clear about that his entire Parliamentary career.
Corbynite Brexit is not in charge. Weird Conservative nutters are.
Alastair, that is not the point. The point is that there are supporters (and opponents) of Brexit on both the left and the right.
It's completely the point. If you're a sane centrist, all you hear about Brexit is braying Tories arguing with each other about exactly how far the clock should be turned back.
Dominic Grieve confirms on Newsnight he would leave the Tory Party if No Deal
Grieve's own actions make No Deal more likely, so he's seeking a pretext to leave the party.
I think Grieve is a Conservative, though.
On everything except Brexit. The regret and respect response yesterday may well keep him in the tent for now but May obviously can’t count on his vote for anything Brexit related.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
Her basic pitch seems to be that the Tories have moved well to the right. That won’t change after 29th March. At some point the FTA negotiations will begin. They will be even more all-encompassing and will lead to big rows on any number of issues, including immigration - an issue that Soubry feels very strongly about.
But, Brexit apart (which is not really a left/right issue at all) what is the evidence for that? This government has yet to find a problem to which more public spending is not the answer. The last 2 budgets have abandoned any pretense of austerity. As a result the overall tax burden edges up rather than down and deficit reduction is in the lap of economic growth.
Does anyone seriously think we are not going to see more of this? It is quite clear that Amber Rudd does not believe for a minute that UC is fit for purpose in its current form. We have got the recent decision by Javid but does anyone really think that any responsible Home Secretary could do anything else? The government seems more focused on Ed Miliband's manifesto than their own.
Brexit is very much a left/right issue. The political voices in favour are overwhelmingly reactionary nationalists.
I disagree that it is very much a left/right issue, but as a leave voter myself, I think voting to leave the EU was marginally a left of centre thing to do (even if most of the leave voters are probably to the right of centre).
It isn't supporting Brexit per se, but the zeal to impose the most drastic form of Brexit instantly on the country regardless of the implications does (expats who are safely out of it aside) mark out the extreme right-wingers.
They are Unionists unlike the SNP but believe avoiding hard Brexit is the best way to secure the Union and like the SNP believe hard Brexit would boost the case for Scottish independence
How in this world do you know that they're Unionists?!
Anna Soubry has cheerfully admitted they don't have any agreed policies. They share general principles (market economy and so on) and they are clearly all anti-Brexit; they also agree what they're against. That's as far as it goes for now and on some things they seem incompatible (e.g. the desirability of austerity). I shouldn't think they've given Scottish independence any joint thought at all yet.
They’ll all be against Scottish Independence.
Nothing to do with them in any case, it is for Scotland and Scottish politicians to decide what we do, not these losers.
Others are allowed to have a view on it and try to persuade the Scots. And how Westminster behaves toward the Scots surely has some effect on what they think, so it is quite relevant and plenty to do with them.
Comments
Foreign advisers say they were ignored and undermined by Chinese management"
https://www.ft.com/content/08edd97e-3410-11e9-bd3a-8b2a211d90d5
Two thirds of the electorate don’t believe their political views are represented by the existing major parties. FPTP gives them little option but a choice between the two - yet at the same time, it is a constitutional commonplace that you elect the MP, not the party.
We can argue about how badly the Govt. has gone about implementing Brexit. But no-one could seriously argue the Govt. didn't have to try.
If they were really that bothered, then work with the far bigger group of MPs than the ERG - that majority across all parties who fear No Deal Brexit, but won't yet agree that May's Deal is the answer.....
I can only guess you're definining "centre" as 'what I believe in' rather than the actual middle of anything.
One man's "self-sabotage" is another's clinging to a job like a limpet, having lied to get it.....
PS The British voters definitely don't believe in what I believe in...
There is a significant chance that Brexit is hiding changes in the Conservative Parliamentary Party that will repel many of their voters - that Brexit is being used to hide a general swing to the right.
Allen's my MP, and she's fairly popular: a fact helped by the fact that her Conservative predecessor, Lansley, was an awful constituency MP - invisible and aloof. Allen's been a fairly good one IMO - and have said so in the past on here. Would I vote for her next time? It would depend on what happens and who the other candidates are, but it's not put me off her.
On another point: pity the Lib Dems. They seem a good home for many of these Labour and Conservative splitters, yet didn't even attract them. Cable's killing them.
So yes, I've got skin in this game.
Her own words were (from memory) "2, maybe 3" defectors would be plausible.
They’ve crossed the rubicon.
Wealth taxes on property, large taxes on business, big increases in income tax, taxation/exappropriating savings and abolishing private pensions - together with exchange controls - would all probably be a part of that.
On the other hand the public thirst is for something new (if ill-defined) and there is appetite for political change. The environment is far more conducive to this now than back in 1981. So it will depend to a large extent on whether this new 'movement' gets traction - support, members, finance, councillors - and how quickly.
Which probably helps the SNP by splitting the unionist vote further, provided the nationalists can avoid losing some of their vote to a party on broadly the same ground.
Soubry and Grieve are Conservatives, though, if not precisely from my wing, so I can only conclude Brexit is driving them out.
I think she still has a few more spins of the wheel in her. It’s a surprise anyone trusts her.
https://twitter.com/Jamin2g/status/1098349755447590913
This is his life - his Twitter audience and media profile - it’s all he has.
He cuts a rather sad lonely figure and I actually feel sorry for him.
This has got legs now and has well pitched, with the polling showing it won’t be a disaster, so it could run and expand for quite some time.
Last day of the first test. There's another fairly shortly. Williams will be hoping to lay down some mileage.
All of which makes me wonder how different the political landscape might look in a month if May gets her deal through and we finally start to move on. I think Soubry in particular might regret her decision yesterday.
It will be all the fault of the Jews.
In a way I don't think Labour defections will be much of a story. The world and his wife know that that there's unhappiness at, at least Corbyn's equivocation. Tory ones, however, would be a different matter.
Second test is next week, Tuesday to Friday, also in Barcelona.
Michael Fabricant"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/02/20/liberal-tory-member-erg-dare-splitters-call-extremist/
Does anyone seriously think we are not going to see more of this? It is quite clear that Amber Rudd does not believe for a minute that UC is fit for purpose in its current form. We have got the recent decision by Javid but does anyone really think that any responsible Home Secretary could do anything else? The government seems more focused on Ed Miliband's manifesto than their own.
https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1098250673035071490
In fairness, he does seem to be following the party line....
Also we shouldn't overlook that going to the country early is made much more difficult for the Tories, internally and with the public, because they have done it once already.
My guess is that we will end up with the CU as well, its just too damn convenient, but that will be the trickiest bit for May to sell.
Grieve, by contrast, is undoubtedly solidly Conservative, and merely disagrees on one issue. The Tories would be idiots to force him out.
He told the Commons Begum’s ban from returning to Britain will have no impact on her baby son’s nationality.
Javid said: “Children should not suffer. So, if a parent does lose their British citizenship, it does not affect the rights of their child.”
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/isis-bride-shamima-begums-son-14028953