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FrancisUrquhart

First - like Chris Gayle to the all you can eat buffet.

Jezza looking like magic great-grandad these days.

The_Taxman

Second

dots

That vote share was a stop brexit bubble thats about to make an almighty pop

dots

On topic and betting post
I think the rise of tigger means a GE more likely. I still think DUP and ERG will get what they need from EU for dealbrexit to happen (nothing really, just enough to save face) but if deadlock does go on, both front benches, their party leaders and business managers actually have common purpose now to remove the tiggers from the commons, and cut this little worm off by its head.

The_Taxman

I think Corbyn looks really old in that picture by the way. He does not look at all well!

AndyJS

John Mann's speech in the Commons today.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2019-02-20/debates/993F895E-D215-4773-A464-1A6320523B0E/AntisemitismInModernSociety#contribution-3697F29B-93EA-4016-AE6B-C40017640901

Direct quote:

"The enablers of antisemitism are as big a problem as the antisemites, and they are more numerous. It is time the enablers were exposed. I have exposed one: Kevin Maguire—an enabler of racism."

FrancisUrquhart

The_Taxman said:

I think Corbyn looks really old in that picture by the way. He does not look at all well!

Father Time waits for no man even the vegan messiah.

Jonathan

Should have gone to Specsavers.

FrancisUrquhart

Proper trolling in that “talk to the animals” times advert.

williamglenn

FrancisUrquhart said:

The_Taxman said:

I think Corbyn looks really old in that picture by the way. He does not look at all well!

Father Time waits for no man even the vegan messiah.

He's younger than Derek Hatton.

MaxPB

I've been thinking about it, this makes Theresa's deal more likely to pass. There will be loads and loads of Tory and Labour MPs who will just want this done with now and once we've left it does take the sting out of TIGers. Especially on the blue team. If the ERG have been placated with the idea that their plan will get used as some basis for the future relationship and the deal has some kind of minute change in it to add an exit mechanism of some kind I think the party falls in line and the deal now passes.

FrancisUrquhart

williamglenn said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

The_Taxman said:

I think Corbyn looks really old in that picture by the way. He does not look at all well!

Father Time waits for no man even the vegan messiah.

He's younger than Derek Hatton.

Yeah but Deggie is apparently off his tits on Alex Jones style supplements!

TheJezziah

AndyJS said:

John Mann's speech in the Commons today.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2019-02-20/debates/993F895E-D215-4773-A464-1A6320523B0E/AntisemitismInModernSociety#contribution-3697F29B-93EA-4016-AE6B-C40017640901

Direct quote:

"The enablers of antisemitism are as big a problem as the antisemites, and they are more numerous. It is time the enablers were exposed. I have exposed one: Kevin Maguire—an enabler of racism."

Hypothetically If I wanted to lie about someone and smear someone but was too cowardly to take the consequences then doing so in parliament as an MP but not repeating myself outside parliament would be the approach I would take.

I won't be holding my breath on this one...

oxfordsimon

As direct talks to camera goes, that really is an inept piece of work. Tonally it is all wrong. The 'script' is disjointed and he looks even more awkward than normal.

It isn't going down amazingly well on his feed - so it has done nothing to reassure any doubters - and indeed comes over as insincere and thus will turn away people who might have given him the benefit of the doubt.

Very bad work from his press advisers

TheJezziah

On topic.

These kind of figures just scream time for a GE to take advantage of Labour weakness.

I worry those with the power to call an election won't get carried away though.

ydoethur

I've seen better fielding from a junior school 2nd XI. This is pathetic.

The_Taxman

dots said:

On topic and betting post
I think the rise of tigger means a GE more likely. I still think DUP and ERG will get what they need from EU for dealbrexit to happen (nothing really, just enough to save face) but if deadlock does go on, both front benches, their party leaders and business managers actually have common purpose now to remove the tiggers from the commons, and cut this little worm off by its head.

The only problem with cutting the worms head off as you put it is it might be they are too late!

If the H of C does not have enough time to get the necessary legislation through to assist a deal or no deal. I doubt they have time to legislate to remove the independents from the commons.

Meanwhile the insurgent Independents might grow in number, gain financial support and public support. If No Deal Brexit happens it will not look very good to see parliament introspectively trying to oust those who opposed the Brexit nightmare rather than dealing with the nasty affects of Brexit that will be ravaging the economy and society.

TheAncientMariner

dots said:

On topic and betting post
I think the rise of tigger means a GE more likely. I still think DUP and ERG will get what they need from EU for dealbrexit to happen (nothing really, just enough to save face) but if deadlock does go on, both front benches, their party leaders and business managers actually have common purpose now to remove the tiggers from the commons, and cut this little worm off by its head.

Corbyn is never going to propose a GE when TIG looks to be more damaging to Labour than the Tories and at the moment is a wild cannon. I am sure he remembers 1983. - he did enter Parliament that year.

But what will be Tigger's causus belli once we leave (deal or no deal)?

The_Taxman

oxfordsimon said:

As direct talks to camera goes, that really is an inept piece of work. Tonally it is all wrong. The 'script' is disjointed and he looks even more awkward than normal.

It isn't going down amazingly well on his feed - so it has done nothing to reassure any doubters - and indeed comes over as insincere and thus will turn away people who might have given him the benefit of the doubt.

Very bad work from his press advisers

Reminds me of Gordon Brown and the NO 10. talk to the camera where he did smiles in places where anybody with any empathy would not. I am thinking of the video where he did awkward shoulder jerks as well! The good old days! lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2hTwdn8kTU

GIN1138

MaxPB said:

I've been thinking about it, this makes Theresa's deal more likely to pass. There will be loads and loads of Tory and Labour MPs who will just want this done with now and once we've left it does take the sting out of TIGers. Especially on the blue team. If the ERG have been placated with the idea that their plan will get used as some basis for the future relationship and the deal has some kind of minute change in it to add an exit mechanism of some kind I think the party falls in line and the deal now passes.

I've thought for about a month that a deal will be done.

I guess we'll need an extension to get everything through Parliament, so we'll probably leave in April or May rather than March but I think a deal is very likely now.

Then Theresa steps down? Or we have a snap election to snuff out the TIGGERS? Or both?

Could be an interesting Summer.

TheJezziah

TheAncientMariner said:

dots said:

On topic and betting post
I think the rise of tigger means a GE more likely. I still think DUP and ERG will get what they need from EU for dealbrexit to happen (nothing really, just enough to save face) but if deadlock does go on, both front benches, their party leaders and business managers actually have common purpose now to remove the tiggers from the commons, and cut this little worm off by its head.

Corbyn is never going to propose a GE when TIG looks to be more damaging to Labour than the Tories and at the moment is a wild cannon. I am sure he remembers 1983. - he did enter Parliament that year.

But what will be Tigger's causus belli once we leave (deal or no deal)?

If May went for a GE now (and presumably extended art. 50) Corbyn would whip for it IMO.

Get the election campaign up and running and take the floor out from the rebels before they have their feet under the table. Awkward in some regards but I can see the advantages.

Freggles

TheJezziah said:

TheAncientMariner said:

dots said:

On topic and betting post
I think the rise of tigger means a GE more likely. I still think DUP and ERG will get what they need from EU for dealbrexit to happen (nothing really, just enough to save face) but if deadlock does go on, both front benches, their party leaders and business managers actually have common purpose now to remove the tiggers from the commons, and cut this little worm off by its head.

Corbyn is never going to propose a GE when TIG looks to be more damaging to Labour than the Tories and at the moment is a wild cannon. I am sure he remembers 1983. - he did enter Parliament that year.

But what will be Tigger's causus belli once we leave (deal or no deal)?

If May went for a GE now (and presumably extended art. 50) Corbyn would whip for it IMO.

Get the election campaign up and running and take the floor out from the rebels before they have their feet under the table. Awkward in some regards but I can see the advantages.

I don’t see May being comfortable enough to do that this side of Brexit, after last time and for fear of the Brenda from Bristol response

glw

MaxPB said:

I've been thinking about it, this makes Theresa's deal more likely to pass. There will be loads and loads of Tory and Labour MPs who will just want this done with now and once we've left it does take the sting out of TIGers. Especially on the blue team. If the ERG have been placated with the idea that their plan will get used as some basis for the future relationship and the deal has some kind of minute change in it to add an exit mechanism of some kind I think the party falls in line and the deal now passes.

I'm rapidly losing the will to even pretend to care about the minutiae of the details of the Backstop, which we may never even need, and can always unilaterally exit from at our whim. It seems abundantly clear now that by far the biggest issue for business is not Brexit itself, but the uncertainty about what comes next month.

I would guess that right now at least 80% of the country would accept almost any sensible outcome (not Revoke or Hard Brexit) that at least concluded this stage of the process. Then we've got until the end of next year to bash out some sort of free trade agreement, and I don't think people care much about the details providing their is an FTA of some sort at the end of it all.

williamglenn

The_Taxman said:

oxfordsimon said:

As direct talks to camera goes, that really is an inept piece of work. Tonally it is all wrong. The 'script' is disjointed and he looks even more awkward than normal.

It isn't going down amazingly well on his feed - so it has done nothing to reassure any doubters - and indeed comes over as insincere and thus will turn away people who might have given him the benefit of the doubt.

Very bad work from his press advisers

Reminds me of Gordon Brown and the NO 10. talk to the camera where he did smiles in places where anybody with any empathy would not. I am thinking of the video where he did awkward shoulder jerks as well! The good old days! lol

Nothing can top Gina Rinehart's address to the Australian people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUCbWfJSw5g

algarkirk

MaxPB said:

I've been thinking about it, this makes Theresa's deal more likely to pass. There will be loads and loads of Tory and Labour MPs who will just want this done with now and once we've left it does take the sting out of TIGers. Especially on the blue team. If the ERG have been placated with the idea that their plan will get used as some basis for the future relationship and the deal has some kind of minute change in it to add an exit mechanism of some kind I think the party falls in line and the deal now passes.

+1. There is no way of closing this down, but TMs deal (tweaked if necessary) is the line which progresses things most quickly and clearly. There is no alternative clear path.

SquareRoot

The_Taxman said:

oxfordsimon said:

As direct talks to camera goes, that really is an inept piece of work. Tonally it is all wrong. The 'script' is disjointed and he looks even more awkward than normal.

It isn't going down amazingly well on his feed - so it has done nothing to reassure any doubters - and indeed comes over as insincere and thus will turn away people who might have given him the benefit of the doubt.

Very bad work from his press advisers

Reminds me of Gordon Brown and the NO 10. talk to the camera where he did smiles in places where anybody with any empathy would not. I am thinking of the video where he did awkward shoulder jerks as well! The good old days! lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2hTwdn8kTU

I've just had late supper. posting this revolting video just isn't cricket!

IanB2

SquareRoot said:

The_Taxman said:

oxfordsimon said:

As direct talks to camera goes, that really is an inept piece of work. Tonally it is all wrong. The 'script' is disjointed and he looks even more awkward than normal.

It isn't going down amazingly well on his feed - so it has done nothing to reassure any doubters - and indeed comes over as insincere and thus will turn away people who might have given him the benefit of the doubt.

Very bad work from his press advisers

Reminds me of Gordon Brown and the NO 10. talk to the camera where he did smiles in places where anybody with any empathy would not. I am thinking of the video where he did awkward shoulder jerks as well! The good old days! lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2hTwdn8kTU

I've just had late supper. posting this revolting video just isn't cricket!

Bad but not as bad as cricket.

dots

Freggles said:

TheJezziah said:

TheAncientMariner said:

dots said:

On topic and betting post
I think the rise of tigger means a GE more likely. I still think DUP and ERG will get what they need from EU for dealbrexit to happen (nothing really, just enough to save face) but if deadlock does go on, both front benches, their party leaders and business managers actually have common purpose now to remove the tiggers from the commons, and cut this little worm off by its head.

Corbyn is never going to propose a GE when TIG looks to be more damaging to Labour than the Tories and at the moment is a wild cannon. I am sure he remembers 1983. - he did enter Parliament that year.

But what will be Tigger's causus belli once we leave (deal or no deal)?

If May went for a GE now (and presumably extended art. 50) Corbyn would whip for it IMO.

Get the election campaign up and running and take the floor out from the rebels before they have their feet under the table. Awkward in some regards but I can see the advantages.

I don’t see May being comfortable enough to do that this side of Brexit, after last time and for fear of the Brenda from Bristol response

But this things growing quicker than little worm in first alien film, and that became dangerous. Both front benches do share common purpose to remove the worm from the commons asap?

The worm has made it clear it doesn’t want an election.

DavidL

ydoethur said:

I've seen better fielding from a junior school 2nd XI. This is pathetic.

I think if I was Nurse I might have pulled something by now. But they need him to bowl.

Sean_F

TheJezziah said:

AndyJS said:

John Mann's speech in the Commons today.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2019-02-20/debates/993F895E-D215-4773-A464-1A6320523B0E/AntisemitismInModernSociety#contribution-3697F29B-93EA-4016-AE6B-C40017640901

Direct quote:

"The enablers of antisemitism are as big a problem as the antisemites, and they are more numerous. It is time the enablers were exposed. I have exposed one: Kevin Maguire—an enabler of racism."

Hypothetically If I wanted to lie about someone and smear someone but was too cowardly to take the consequences then doing so in parliament as an MP but not repeating myself outside parliament would be the approach I would take.

I won't be holding my breath on this one...

What is it that bothers you about John Mann's speech?

TheJezziah

Freggles said:

TheJezziah said:

TheAncientMariner said:

dots said:

On topic and betting post
I think the rise of tigger means a GE more likely. I still think DUP and ERG will get what they need from EU for dealbrexit to happen (nothing really, just enough to save face) but if deadlock does go on, both front benches, their party leaders and business managers actually have common purpose now to remove the tiggers from the commons, and cut this little worm off by its head.

Corbyn is never going to propose a GE when TIG looks to be more damaging to Labour than the Tories and at the moment is a wild cannon. I am sure he remembers 1983. - he did enter Parliament that year.

But what will be Tigger's causus belli once we leave (deal or no deal)?

If May went for a GE now (and presumably extended art. 50) Corbyn would whip for it IMO.

Get the election campaign up and running and take the floor out from the rebels before they have their feet under the table. Awkward in some regards but I can see the advantages.

I don’t see May being comfortable enough to do that this side of Brexit, after last time and for fear of the Brenda from Bristol response

Just the other side of Brexit would suit better in some ways, it would give the rebels a bit more time but the ones on the Labour side are almost all from seats where Labour would beat them so they'd presumably need a long time to figure out their new constituency and do some ground work there.

If May gets Brexit 'done' by the ERG being forced onside mostly against Labour and then calls the election whilst we are in transition (or whatever word will be used) that would be just about perfect IMO.

Nigelb

MaxPB said:

I've been thinking about it, this makes Theresa's deal more likely to pass. There will be loads and loads of Tory and Labour MPs who will just want this done with now and once we've left it does take the sting out of TIGers. Especially on the blue team. If the ERG have been placated with the idea that their plan will get used as some basis for the future relationship and the deal has some kind of minute change in it to add an exit mechanism of some kind I think the party falls in line and the deal now passes.

And quite a few thinking of joining them.

I think it slightly too soon to be jumping to conclusions either way. FWIW.

kinabalu

dots said:

On topic and betting post
I think the rise of tigger means a GE more likely. I still think DUP and ERG will get what they need from EU for dealbrexit to happen (nothing really, just enough to save face) but if deadlock does go on, both front benches, their party leaders and business managers actually have common purpose now to remove the tiggers from the commons, and cut this little worm off by its head.

Market agrees I'm sorry to report. Election in 2019 shortened by a lot the last couple of days.

IanB2

dots said:

On topic and betting post
I think the rise of tigger means a GE more likely. I still think DUP and ERG will get what they need from EU for dealbrexit to happen (nothing really, just enough to save face) but if deadlock does go on, both front benches, their party leaders and business managers actually have common purpose now to remove the tiggers from the commons, and cut this little worm off by its head.

I don't think so. Neither TIG nor the LDs want a GE, for reasons already explored. The LDs have already threatened not to support any more Labour NCs until Corbyn declares for the PV, and it would make sense for TIG to do the same. So they all abstain and it falls.

williamglenn

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1098291266452901889

ydoethur

91 off 13.

Exactly 7 an over.

You would think Root needs to bat through here with the others playing shots around him, if England are to pull off the impossible.

TheAncientMariner

ydoethur said:

91 off 13.

Exactly 7 an over.

You would think Root needs to bat through here with the others playing shots around him, if England are to pull off the impossible.

Root's an enigma - he hasn't done anything at all - yet has scored 73 - 4.

dots

GIN1138 said:

MaxPB said:

I've been thinking about it, this makes Theresa's deal more likely to pass. There will be loads and loads of Tory and Labour MPs who will just want this done with now and once we've left it does take the sting out of TIGers. Especially on the blue team. If the ERG have been placated with the idea that their plan will get used as some basis for the future relationship and the deal has some kind of minute change in it to add an exit mechanism of some kind I think the party falls in line and the deal now passes.

I've thought for about a month that a deal will be done.

I guess we'll need an extension to get everything through Parliament, so we'll probably leave in April or May rather than March but I think a deal is very likely now.

Then Theresa steps down? Or we have a snap election to snuff out the TIGGERS? Or both?

Could be an interesting Summer.

May has to go before the next election? Unless its a snap election this year?

If she wins the GE comfortably does she still has to go?

Absolutely not.

Needs to honour a promise she’ll go? Ha ha haha haaaaaa. 🙃

Pulling off the impossible of a deal brexit plus putting to bed she cant win GE’s means she stays to fight in 2024 too.

ydoethur

TheAncientMariner said:

ydoethur said:

91 off 13.

Exactly 7 an over.

You would think Root needs to bat through here with the others playing shots around him, if England are to pull off the impossible.

Root's an enigma - he hasn't done anything at all - yet has scored 73 - 4.

Apparently he has a better strike rate than Gayle. However that is slightly misleading as Gayle played a third of his ODIs in pre-T20 days when strike rates were much lower.

Sunil_Prasannan

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1098291266452901889

"I think she's got a problem with democracy!"

Sunil Prasannan tells #PB that fear of losing her MP's salary and perks is "the only reason" TIGer @Anna_Soubry will not agree to triggering a by-election.

rottenborough

Utterly terrified and utterly wrong:

https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1098341766716186624

MattW

I think Jezza is channelling one of the supervising technicians from Joe 90.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4utQWy9heEI

GIN1138

dots said:

GIN1138 said:

MaxPB said:

I've been thinking about it, this makes Theresa's deal more likely to pass. There will be loads and loads of Tory and Labour MPs who will just want this done with now and once we've left it does take the sting out of TIGers. Especially on the blue team. If the ERG have been placated with the idea that their plan will get used as some basis for the future relationship and the deal has some kind of minute change in it to add an exit mechanism of some kind I think the party falls in line and the deal now passes.

I've thought for about a month that a deal will be done.

I guess we'll need an extension to get everything through Parliament, so we'll probably leave in April or May rather than March but I think a deal is very likely now.

Then Theresa steps down? Or we have a snap election to snuff out the TIGGERS? Or both?

Could be an interesting Summer.

May has to go before the next election? Unless its a snap election this year?

If she wins the GE comfortably does she still has to go?

Absolutely not.

Needs to honour a promise she’ll go? Ha ha haha haaaaaa. 🙃

Pulling off the impossible of a deal brexit plus putting to bed she cant win GE’s means she stays to fight in 2024 too.

If she pulled off a Brexit deal, oversaw the UK leaving the EU and then won a Conservative majority Theresa May would indeed be Empress of all she surveys.

A lot of "if's" there though...

rottenborough

Looking forward to tomorrow, or will MPs wait for the Sunday newspapers deadline?

Big_G_NorthWales

rottenborough said:

Looking forward to tomorrow, or will MPs wait for the Sunday newspapers deadline?

Lets have 24 hours off !!!

DavidL

England are making this look easy. Admittedly the catching has made it a lot easier but jeez, this game has moved on.

TheJezziah

Sean_F said:

TheJezziah said:

AndyJS said:

John Mann's speech in the Commons today.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2019-02-20/debates/993F895E-D215-4773-A464-1A6320523B0E/AntisemitismInModernSociety#contribution-3697F29B-93EA-4016-AE6B-C40017640901

Direct quote:

"The enablers of antisemitism are as big a problem as the antisemites, and they are more numerous. It is time the enablers were exposed. I have exposed one: Kevin Maguire—an enabler of racism."

Hypothetically If I wanted to lie about someone and smear someone but was too cowardly to take the consequences then doing so in parliament as an MP but not repeating myself outside parliament would be the approach I would take.

I won't be holding my breath on this one...

What is it that bothers you about John Mann's speech?

Edit: Just to make clear you are not an enabler of racism (AFAIK)

Would you have a problem if John Mann called you an enabler of racism?

But did it in a cowardly way that meant he wouldn't face consequences.

A question I've asked multiple people but haven't got an answer yet... do you think John will repeat his accusations without protection or is he too cowardly?

ydoethur

Big_G_NorthWales said:

rottenborough said:

Looking forward to tomorrow, or will MPs wait for the Sunday newspapers deadline?

Lets have 24 hours off !!!

As Diane said to Jeremy...

dots

TheJezziah said:

AndyJS said:

John Mann's speech in the Commons today.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2019-02-20/debates/993F895E-D215-4773-A464-1A6320523B0E/AntisemitismInModernSociety#contribution-3697F29B-93EA-4016-AE6B-C40017640901

Direct quote:

"The enablers of antisemitism are as big a problem as the antisemites, and they are more numerous. It is time the enablers were exposed. I have exposed one: Kevin Maguire—an enabler of racism."

Hypothetically If I wanted to lie about someone and smear someone but was too cowardly to take the consequences then doing so in parliament as an MP but not repeating myself outside parliament would be the approach I would take.

I won't be holding my breath on this one...

Ive read the Hansard. Had to re read it to find something offensive.

If I was Kevin I would just ignore it and passing Mann in the Lobby say, alright John?

rottenborough

Another Cammo triumph:

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1098347698330177538

AramintaMoonbeamQC

Big_G_NorthWales said:

rottenborough said:

Looking forward to tomorrow, or will MPs wait for the Sunday newspapers deadline?

Lets have 24 hours off !!!

Ross Kempsell on Twitter saying strong rumours of further Lab defections tomorrow.

I'll hazard a guess at Ian Austin and Siobhain McDonagh.

Big_G_NorthWales

ydoethur said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

rottenborough said:

Looking forward to tomorrow, or will MPs wait for the Sunday newspapers deadline?

Lets have 24 hours off !!!

As Diane said to Jeremy...

Now that is not conducive to a good night's sleep !!!!!

TheJezziah

dots said:

TheJezziah said:

AndyJS said:

John Mann's speech in the Commons today.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2019-02-20/debates/993F895E-D215-4773-A464-1A6320523B0E/AntisemitismInModernSociety#contribution-3697F29B-93EA-4016-AE6B-C40017640901

Direct quote:

"The enablers of antisemitism are as big a problem as the antisemites, and they are more numerous. It is time the enablers were exposed. I have exposed one: Kevin Maguire—an enabler of racism."

Hypothetically If I wanted to lie about someone and smear someone but was too cowardly to take the consequences then doing so in parliament as an MP but not repeating myself outside parliament would be the approach I would take.

I won't be holding my breath on this one...

Ive read the Hansard. Had to re read it to find something offensive.

If I was Kevin I would just ignore it and passing Mann in the Lobby say, alright John?

There should be pressure on him to repeat what he said outside the house of commons. Any man with any honour would not hide behind some protections to attack someone like that.

He is a little cowardly bully and should be called out as such.

_Anazina_

T

FrancisUrquhart said:

williamglenn said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

The_Taxman said:

I think Corbyn looks really old in that picture by the way. He does not look at all well!

Father Time waits for no man even the vegan messiah.

He's younger than Derek Hatton.

Yeah but Deggie is apparently off his tits on Alex Jones style supplements!

And Botox!

williamglenn

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1098346205908733952

nielh

rottenborough said:

Utterly terrified and utterly wrong:

https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1098341766716186624

The Corbyn dream is dead. This just splits the labour/remain vote. It was easily foreseeable and avoidable.

Pauly

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1098343452889309190
Owen Smith? Peter Kyle? Liz Kendall? Ian Murray? Siobhain McDonagh? Ian Austin? So many choices left...

Nemtynakht

algarkirk said:

MaxPB said:

I've been thinking about it, this makes Theresa's deal more likely to pass. There will be loads and loads of Tory and Labour MPs who will just want this done with now and once we've left it does take the sting out of TIGers. Especially on the blue team. If the ERG have been placated with the idea that their plan will get used as some basis for the future relationship and the deal has some kind of minute change in it to add an exit mechanism of some kind I think the party falls in line and the deal now passes.

+1. There is no way of closing this down, but TMs deal (tweaked if necessary) is the line which progresses things most quickly and clearly. There is no alternative clear path.

I’d not thought of it before but the Tiggers move makes it more likely that some Labour MPs may see more benefit to vote it through and see one of the Tiggers main ‘policies’ dealt with and also put the Tories in trouble with the DUP

dots

TheJezziah said:

dots said:

TheJezziah said:

AndyJS said:

John Mann's speech in the Commons today.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2019-02-20/debates/993F895E-D215-4773-A464-1A6320523B0E/AntisemitismInModernSociety#contribution-3697F29B-93EA-4016-AE6B-C40017640901

Direct quote:

"The enablers of antisemitism are as big a problem as the antisemites, and they are more numerous. It is time the enablers were exposed. I have exposed one: Kevin Maguire—an enabler of racism."

Hypothetically If I wanted to lie about someone and smear someone but was too cowardly to take the consequences then doing so in parliament as an MP but not repeating myself outside parliament would be the approach I would take.

I won't be holding my breath on this one...

Ive read the Hansard. Had to re read it to find something offensive.

If I was Kevin I would just ignore it and passing Mann in the Lobby say, alright John?

There should be pressure on him to repeat what he said outside the house of commons. Any man with any honour would not hide behind some protections to attack someone like that.

He is a little cowardly bully and should be called out as such.

You don’t think Mann has a point, about tolerating casual racism and not stamping down on it leads to worse things? We can all be enablers, especially with retrospect we didnt have at the time. That’s fair to say?

GIN1138

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1098346205908733952

Who wants to kill the Tories?

rottenborough

Based on the clip on Newsnight, Allen is an impressive stage speaker.

Big_G_NorthWales

Nemtynakht said:

algarkirk said:

MaxPB said:

I've been thinking about it, this makes Theresa's deal more likely to pass. There will be loads and loads of Tory and Labour MPs who will just want this done with now and once we've left it does take the sting out of TIGers. Especially on the blue team. If the ERG have been placated with the idea that their plan will get used as some basis for the future relationship and the deal has some kind of minute change in it to add an exit mechanism of some kind I think the party falls in line and the deal now passes.

+1. There is no way of closing this down, but TMs deal (tweaked if necessary) is the line which progresses things most quickly and clearly. There is no alternative clear path.

I’d not thought of it before but the Tiggers move makes it more likely that some Labour MPs may see more benefit to vote it through and see one of the Tiggers main ‘policies’ dealt with and also put the Tories in trouble with the DUP

I think the DUP are sidelined now. None of the 11 or more TIG want an election and I doubt the lib dems do as this nascent group try to get a foothold in politics

_Anazina_

rottenborough said:

Utterly terrified and utterly wrong:

https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1098341766716186624

I believe the traditional PB response involves hearts, and stones.

williamglenn

GIN1138 said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1098346205908733952

Who wants to kill the Tories?

It was a comment from Heidi Allen that if they succeed, there won't be a Tory party to go back to.

OblitusSumMe

TheJezziah said:

Sean_F said:

TheJezziah said:

AndyJS said:

John Mann's speech in the Commons today.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2019-02-20/debates/993F895E-D215-4773-A464-1A6320523B0E/AntisemitismInModernSociety#contribution-3697F29B-93EA-4016-AE6B-C40017640901

Direct quote:

"The enablers of antisemitism are as big a problem as the antisemites, and they are more numerous. It is time the enablers were exposed. I have exposed one: Kevin Maguire—an enabler of racism."

Hypothetically If I wanted to lie about someone and smear someone but was too cowardly to take the consequences then doing so in parliament as an MP but not repeating myself outside parliament would be the approach I would take.

I won't be holding my breath on this one...

What is it that bothers you about John Mann's speech?

Edit: Just to make clear you are not an enabler of racism (AFAIK)

Would you have a problem if John Mann called you an enabler of racism?

But did it in a cowardly way that meant he wouldn't face consequences.

A question I've asked multiple people but haven't got an answer yet... do you think John will repeat his accusations without protection or is he too cowardly?

I don't like the idea that libel/slander laws can be used to intimidate people from speaking out.

I'm sure I would not like to be called an enabler of racism, but it would make no difference to me whether this was said in Parliament or elsewhere as it wouldn't occur to me to take someone to court for it.

I'd be desperate to convince them that they were mistaken though. I wonder whether Kevin Maguire is interested in trying to convince John Mann that he is mistaken?

Benpointer

Morgan gone. Collapse!

AndyJS

Newsnight: more Labour defections expected soon, not so much Tory.

AramintaMoonbeamQC

Pauly said:

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1098343452889309190
Owen Smith? Peter Kyle? Liz Kendall? Ian Murray? Siobhain McDonagh? Ian Austin? So many choices left...

Ian Murray is one to watch. Edinburgh South is an interesting constituency, very Remain and full of affluent types voting tactically to keep out the SNP. He might fancy a shot at holding it for TIG in a snap GE.

ydoethur

DavidL said:

England are making this look easy. Admittedly the catching has made it a lot easier but jeez, this game has moved on.

YOu silly sod...

rottenborough

_Anazina_ said:

rottenborough said:

Utterly terrified and utterly wrong:

https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1098341766716186624

I believe the traditional PB response involves hearts, and stones.

I am chocking on popcorn at the moment.

Jezza and his gang of wanna-be gulag operatives were repeatedly warned, but they did not listen.

GIN1138

williamglenn said:

GIN1138 said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1098346205908733952

Who wants to kill the Tories?

It was a comment from Heidi Allen that if they succeed, there won't be a Tory party to go back to.

That's not very nice of her LOL!

CarlottaVance

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1098346205908733952

The conciliatory gestures and comments from the PM down slapped away then....."ah sweet the air from all my burning bridges".....

rottenborough

Kirsty corrects Soubry's latin.

Only on the BBC

dixiedean

Another febrile day of transference and projection on all sides. Earlier this evening we were told a deal was being hammered out. TM makes a brief trip....nowt. All predictions are ultimately futile and pointless till something actually happens...or doesn't.
888 hours to Brexit.

DavidL

ydoethur said:

DavidL said:

England are making this look easy. Admittedly the catching has made it a lot easier but jeez, this game has moved on.

YOu silly sod...

Oh that’s harsh. Good innings by Morgan.

AndyJS

AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

Pauly said:

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1098343452889309190
Owen Smith? Peter Kyle? Liz Kendall? Ian Murray? Siobhain McDonagh? Ian Austin? So many choices left...

Ian Murray is one to watch. Edinburgh South is an interesting constituency, very Remain and full of affluent types voting tactically to keep out the SNP. He might fancy a shot at holding it for TIG in a snap GE.

I wouldn't rule out John Woodcock. Also Ruth Smeeth.

dots

I think Javids in trouble.

Javids more moderate colleagues wont commit to camera to support what he’s doing.

Firstly, there’s no easy option here, but there are security experts saying, in the main interest of security the better option is don’t leave this great radicalised mass out there, each country with deradicalization schemes in place, largely proven as effective, to own your own, put them through the programme with ultimate aim to use them to fight more radicalisation. Secondly, an element of leave vote was to kick criminals out rather than be frustrated from doing it, there are legal experts warning here of precedent, to follow Javid’s trick of shitting on other countries sets other countries the precedent to shit on us.

The national Interest in this case is security of our communities and British Citizens. by taking this girl and baby back to be treated as criminal, treated as radicalised and put through deradicalization, and monitored, are we more than less safe? By stripping our foreign fighters of British citizenship, leaving them out there in the world just as they are, are we more than less safe, here and where we go in the world?

If Javid is gone by Monday I reckon Gavin Williamson will become Home sec, Penny Mordant Defence sec.

CarlottaVance

rottenborough said:

Utterly terrified and utterly wrong:

https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1098341766716186624

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1098350550574338050

ydoethur

dixiedean said:

Another febrile day of transference and projection on all sides. Earlier this evening we were told a deal was being hammered out. TM makes a brief trip....nowt. All predictions are ultimately futile and pointless till something actually happens...or doesn't.
888 hours to Brexit.

Let's wait until it gets to 666 before we panic.

Fenster

I wonder if Lord Mandelson will defect.

nielh

Pauly said:

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1098343452889309190
Owen Smith? Peter Kyle? Liz Kendall? Ian Murray? Siobhain McDonagh? Ian Austin? So many choices left...

A few each day, to maximise the impact and keep the story in the news.

GIN1138

CarlottaVance said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1098346205908733952

The conciliatory gestures and comments from the PM down slapped away then....."ah sweet the air from all my burning bridges".....

Think Con's going to have to call an election for the Summer - Will leave Chuka and Heidi out in the cold standing as independents in their constituency's with no real time to formulate a campaign or policy agenda.

AndyJS

Anna Soubry on Newsnight: "We don't have any policies".

Andrew

Pauly said:

Owen Smith? Peter Kyle? Liz Kendall? Ian Murray? Siobhain McDonagh? Ian Austin? So many choices left...

Chris Williamson to the Monster Raving Loonies.

TheWhiteRabbit

AndyJS said:

AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

Pauly said:

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1098343452889309190
Owen Smith? Peter Kyle? Liz Kendall? Ian Murray? Siobhain McDonagh? Ian Austin? So many choices left...

Ian Murray is one to watch. Edinburgh South is an interesting constituency, very Remain and full of affluent types voting tactically to keep out the SNP. He might fancy a shot at holding it for TIG in a snap GE.

I wouldn't rule out John Woodcock. Also Ruth Smeeth.

Pedant's revolt: Woodcook currently sits as an Independent already...

rottenborough

Soubry on message: not tribal. This is about a new movement to break the twin party system.

This is not just Brexit.

Could all fall to bits, but what a moment we are seeing...

Fenster

AndyJS said:

AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

Pauly said:

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1098343452889309190
Owen Smith? Peter Kyle? Liz Kendall? Ian Murray? Siobhain McDonagh? Ian Austin? So many choices left...

Ian Murray is one to watch. Edinburgh South is an interesting constituency, very Remain and full of affluent types voting tactically to keep out the SNP. He might fancy a shot at holding it for TIG in a snap GE.

I wouldn't rule out John Woodcock. Also Ruth Smeeth.

I thought Woodcock was already independent?

The_Apocalypse

A Labour split is logical, not just because of Corbyn but that I don’t think the Labour left and the moderates can live together period under one tent. After 1983, the left was essentially shut down within the party, and the exact same is happening to the modernisers now. The last thirty years has shown the two factions need to go their separate ways.

AndyJS

TheWhiteRabbit said:

AndyJS said:

AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

Pauly said:

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1098343452889309190
Owen Smith? Peter Kyle? Liz Kendall? Ian Murray? Siobhain McDonagh? Ian Austin? So many choices left...

Ian Murray is one to watch. Edinburgh South is an interesting constituency, very Remain and full of affluent types voting tactically to keep out the SNP. He might fancy a shot at holding it for TIG in a snap GE.

I wouldn't rule out John Woodcock. Also Ruth Smeeth.

Pedant's revolt: Woodcook currently sits as an Independent already...

That's a different sort of independent. He can still move to the TIGs.

TheJezziah

dots said:

TheJezziah said:

dots said:

TheJezziah said:

AndyJS said:

John Mann's speech in the Commons today.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2019-02-20/debates/993F895E-D215-4773-A464-1A6320523B0E/AntisemitismInModernSociety#contribution-3697F29B-93EA-4016-AE6B-C40017640901

Direct quote:

"The enablers of antisemitism are as big a problem as the antisemites, and they are more numerous. It is time the enablers were exposed. I have exposed one: Kevin Maguire—an enabler of racism."

Hypothetically If I wanted to lie about someone and smear someone but was too cowardly to take the consequences then doing so in parliament as an MP but not repeating myself outside parliament would be the approach I would take.

I won't be holding my breath on this one...

Ive read the Hansard. Had to re read it to find something offensive.

If I was Kevin I would just ignore it and passing Mann in the Lobby say, alright John?

There should be pressure on him to repeat what he said outside the house of commons. Any man with any honour would not hide behind some protections to attack someone like that.

He is a little cowardly bully and should be called out as such.

You don’t think Mann has a point, about tolerating casual racism and not stamping down on it leads to worse things? We can all be enablers, especially with retrospect we didnt have at the time. That’s fair to say?

If John was saying we are all enablers, or none of us are perfect. Almost jesus like ye without sin cast the first stone I'd be all over that.

John is pretty much the opposite of peaceful forgiving Jesus. John selected a political enemy and used cowardly methods to attack him because John is a little bully who loves using his pulpit. I'm calling the coward out, he won't prove me wrong and repeat his accusations without protection.

Yet to see a single person on PB who thinks he will despite me asking the question multiple times...

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/TheSun/status/1098351601012625409

Benpointer

AndyJS said:

Anna Soubry on Newsnight: "We don't have any policies".

Just like the Tories then

Scott_P

This is genius...

https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1098306838012006400

The_Taxman

OblitusSumMe said:

TheJezziah said:

Sean_F said:

TheJezziah said:

AndyJS said:

John Mann's speech in the Commons today.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2019-02-20/debates/993F895E-D215-4773-A464-1A6320523B0E/AntisemitismInModernSociety#contribution-3697F29B-93EA-4016-AE6B-C40017640901

Direct quote:

"The enablers of antisemitism are as big a problem as the antisemites, and they are more numerous. It is time the enablers were exposed. I have exposed one: Kevin Maguire—an enabler of racism."

Hypothetically If I wanted to lie about someone and smear someone but was too cowardly to take the consequences then doing so in parliament as an MP but not repeating myself outside parliament would be the approach I would take.

I won't be holding my breath on this one...

What is it that bothers you about John Mann's speech?

Edit: Just to make clear you are not an enabler of racism (AFAIK)

Would you have a problem if John Mann called you an enabler of racism?

But did it in a cowardly way that meant he wouldn't face consequences.

A question I've asked multiple people but haven't got an answer yet... do you think John will repeat his accusations without protection or is he too cowardly?

I don't like the idea that libel/slander laws can be used to intimidate people from speaking out.

I'm sure I would not like to be called an enabler of racism, but it would make no difference to me whether this was said in Parliament or elsewhere as it wouldn't occur to me to take someone to court for it.

I'd be desperate to convince them that they were mistaken though. I wonder whether Kevin Maguire is interested in trying to convince John Mann that he is mistaken?

Nothing I have seen when McGuire does the paper reviews would lead me to think he was an enabler or what he normally publishes. Indeed, watching the clip from parliament puzzles me as to what he has meant to have done that is so offensive. I doubt McGuire would have done what he is accused of doing and he is probably mortified that he is being discussed about in this way. The media often misreport second hand news and if Mann was not a Eurosceptic it would not surprise me if he was next to defect!

AndyJS

Fenster said:

AndyJS said:

AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

Pauly said:

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1098343452889309190
Owen Smith? Peter Kyle? Liz Kendall? Ian Murray? Siobhain McDonagh? Ian Austin? So many choices left...

Ian Murray is one to watch. Edinburgh South is an interesting constituency, very Remain and full of affluent types voting tactically to keep out the SNP. He might fancy a shot at holding it for TIG in a snap GE.

I wouldn't rule out John Woodcock. Also Ruth Smeeth.

I thought Woodcock was already independent?

He's an independent independent at the moment. The TIGs would probably still like him to join them.

ydoethur

Andrew said:

Pauly said:

Owen Smith? Peter Kyle? Liz Kendall? Ian Murray? Siobhain McDonagh? Ian Austin? So many choices left...

Chris Williamson to the Monster Raving Loonies.

That happened the moment he was born.

But they returned him to Labour. He was just too crazy and made them look sensible.

DavidL

dots said:

I think Javids in trouble.

Javids more moderate colleagues wont commit to camera to support what he’s doing.

Firstly, there’s no easy option here, but there are security experts saying, in the main interest of security the better option is don’t leave this great radicalised mass out there, each country with deradicalization schemes in place, largely proven as effective, to own your own, put them through the programme with ultimate aim to use them to fight more radicalisation. Secondly, an element of leave vote was to kick criminals out rather than be frustrated from doing it, there are legal experts warning here of precedent, to follow Javid’s trick of shitting on other countries sets other countries the precedent to shit on us.

The national Interest in this case is security of our communities and British Citizens. by taking this girl and baby back to be treated as criminal, treated as radicalised and put through deradicalization, and monitored, are we more than less safe? By stripping our foreign fighters of British citizenship, leaving them out there in the world just as they are, are we more than less safe, here and where we go in the world?

If Javid is gone by Monday I reckon Gavin Williamson will become Home sec, Penny Mordant Defence sec.

You are genuinely delusional. This will do Javid no harm even if the courts ultimately disagree with him.

rottenborough

https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1098352809617969152

OblitusSumMe

ydoethur said:

dixiedean said:

Another febrile day of transference and projection on all sides. Earlier this evening we were told a deal was being hammered out. TM makes a brief trip....nowt. All predictions are ultimately futile and pointless till something actually happens...or doesn't.
888 hours to Brexit.

Let's wait until it gets to 666 before we panic.

2019-03-02 05:00 is your panic hour.

Fenster

AndyJS said:

Fenster said:

AndyJS said:

AramintaMoonbeamQC said:

Pauly said:

https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1098343452889309190
Owen Smith? Peter Kyle? Liz Kendall? Ian Murray? Siobhain McDonagh? Ian Austin? So many choices left...

Ian Murray is one to watch. Edinburgh South is an interesting constituency, very Remain and full of affluent types voting tactically to keep out the SNP. He might fancy a shot at holding it for TIG in a snap GE.

I wouldn't rule out John Woodcock. Also Ruth Smeeth.

I thought Woodcock was already independent?

He's an independent independent at the moment. The TIGs would probably still like him to join them.

Ah understood. Thank you.