no places like Morrocco or Florida or Turkey. Thats assuming they have a problem in the first place, all those people with dual nationality will just continue with business as normal. And eventually places in the Med will want their investors back some resorts are stuffed full of Russians who seem to have no problem.
They are not full of Russians who have very little money. FoM in the EU27 will now only apply to those few that can afford it.
and brits who dont have much money arent there either, all youre saying is the beter off can afford to go places.
Nonsense. The Costas are home to large numbers of Brits on very average incomes and of very average means. For the last 40 years living, working and retiring to the sun have been attainable dreams for millions. That is about to end. That may not bother you, but it will bother plenty of other Leave voters who never realised ending freedom of movement didn’t only apply to foreigners.
so your view is the Spanish government will remove a major source of income just to keep Brussels happy.
The income will still be there. No-one’s going to be thrown out. Other northern Europeans will still be able to retire to Spain - and probably a little more cheaply than before.
so in effect there will be some inconvenience but money is money and things will continue
so whats all the doom mongering about ?
I am not doom-mongeribg, merely observing that only rich Brits will be able to retire to the Med in future. If you can buy a €500,000 property and afford health insurance you’ll be fine.
We voted to Leave. If we continue to pay the same money as before, we haven't left. When you leave a club, your payments stop - it's not rocket science.
On the contrary, surely it's quite common for clubs to offer their services to members at a cheaper rate than the general public enjoys!
When you leave those clubs, your payments increase ...
The EU27 realise Boris Johnson or another Brexiteer will probably be the next UK PM. Johnson is a proven, compulsive liar, as are all the other Buccaneers. Of course, the EU is not going to change the backstop. They don’t trust the UK government. You reap what you sow. The EU found that out in 2016. Now it’s the Brexiteers’ turn. I really want them in charge now. They need to own the consequences of what they advocated completely and unequivocally.
May is no better than those you mention either. Is there such a thing as a Tory who does not lie when their lips move.
no places like Morrocco or Florida or Turkey. Thats assuming they have a problem in the first place, all those people with dual nationality will just continue with business as normal. And eventually places in the Med will want their investors back some resorts are stuffed full of Russians who seem to have no problem.
They are not full of Russians who have very little money. FoM in the EU27 will now only apply to those few that can afford it.
and brits who dont have much money arent there either, all youre saying is the beter off can afford to go places.
Nonsense. The Costas are home to large numbers of Brits on very average incomes and of very average means. For the last 40 years living, working and retiring to the sun have been attainable dreams for millions. That is about to end. That may not bother you, but it will bother plenty of other Leave voters who never realised ending freedom of movement didn’t only apply to foreigners.
I don’t know any who’ve retired to the Costas, except felix. I do know a number who have second homes in France.
Personally, neither are my cup of tea. But I suspect the most likely outcome is that France and Spain tweak their residency laws.
All of them are Brexit. All of them fulfil the mandate of the 2016 referendum so none of them are BINO. Norway + is a deeply stupid idea for reasons set out many times before. However Norway is a very good idea and should be the end point.
Genuine question, what about the NI border? Technological solutions?
FPT That's a fascinating survey from Yougov. Hugo Swire must really have upset his voters.
It was like that in the run-up to the 17GE as well. It was the single piece of information that convinced me (wrongly) that the YouGov model hadn't been properly checked. Ah well.
FPT That's a fascinating survey from Yougov. Hugo Swire must really have upset his voters.
It was like that in the run-up to the 17GE as well. It was the single piece of information that convinced me (wrongly) that the YouGov model hadn't been properly checked. Ah well.
Claire Wright has the left wing/anti-Brexit vote sewn up. But I don't think it's enough.
Still, Swire has hugely underperformed the Conservatives in general, in a constituency which should be very safe. His vote share is no higher than in 2001. The Conservatives should select a new candidate.
Agree entirely. I just don't see how YouGov can have anything like enough East Devon constituents for their model there to have any predictive power. It relies on assuming similar voters in similar areas will trend the same way, and East Devon is pretty much unique.
I think they might have had it down as an IND gain in their other constituency poll that got Canterbury and Kensington right before the election, so maybe special factors for that one make it harder to judge like you said.
The EU27 realise Boris Johnson or another Brexiteer will probably be the next UK PM. Johnson is a proven, compulsive liar, as are all the other Buccaneers. Of course, the EU is not going to change the backstop. They don’t trust the UK government. You reap what you sow. The EU found that out in 2016. Now it’s the Brexiteers’ turn. I really want them in charge now. They need to own the consequences of what they advocated completely and unequivocally.
May is no better than those you mention either. Is there such a thing as a Tory who does not lie when their lips move.
One might reasonably extend that question to any politician of any party.
Mays counting down the clock strategy is effective but hugely damaging. By effectively blocking anything but her deal she is denying sensible thoughts any oxygen. The price for her deal is to deepen divisions at home. We see that here today. The positional power of a PM trumps other options, regardless of how unpopular she might be. It feels like the only rational response is to step away and wait.
She might reasonably argue that it is not she that is blocking anything but her deal, it is the EU. Unless of course once again this is code for reversing the referendum result.
Oh come on. HMG negotiated and agreed a deal with the EU. The failure is that she didn’t take her party with her. She will blame anyone of course, but reasonably? Not on your nelly.
We voted to Leave. If we continue to pay the same money as before, we haven't left. When you leave a club, your payments stop - it's not rocket science.
However, if you want to retain some of the 'advantages', and some form of associate membership is possible, you'd expect to pay a lower tariff. But that would be dishonest and not in accord with the referendum unless you had a second vote on this. A sort of modified May deal versus leave with No Deal. A Remain option shouldn't be on the table because we decided to Leave once already.
If you don't honour the Referendum decision, why should any voter, in the future, accept democratic decisions that don't suit them?
There's always a possibility to re-join in the future, but if we don't leave in some legitimate form first, you can forget about accepting any result.
But we're back to what you voted for vs what you think you voted for. You voted to leave the European Union . You didn't vote to leave anything that isn't the European Union as that wasn't asked, and you didn't vote for what we do next as you weren't asked.
May's deal is Brexit as defined by the referendum question. May's deal honours the referendum decision. No deal - which everyone in possession of the facts confirms would utterly fuck this country - is not required as there is already a deal to honour the referendum.
As for remain being the alternate, of course it has to be there. When the facts change can people not expect the ability to change their mind? We had a vote on the concept of leaving. We now have a deal and people should be allowed to chose whether they back it or not.
It is not a deal , just a white paper that we pay dearly for that ties us in chains and allows us to talk about them really skinning us on the "DEAL".
It's telling that some pb tories will even attempt a half-hearted, limp dicked defence of the Fireplace Salesman but none will ever go into bat for Grayteeth.
Nobody thinks they are as incompetent as Grayling appears to be, which make it hard to empathise with him.
Not even Grayling himself...
Grayling has underperformed in every ministerial post I can recall, including way before Brexit when he was Minister for Justice. I remember being appalled by some of his policies there.
He also isn’t particularly well liked on a personal level. He’s still there because he backed TM as PM from the get-go, is a Brexiteer and it’s a hung parliament.
Mays counting down the clock strategy is effective but hugely damaging. By effectively blocking anything but her deal she is denying sensible thoughts any oxygen. The price for her deal is to deepen divisions at home. We see that here today. The positional power of a PM trumps other options, regardless of how unpopular she might be. It feels like the only rational response is to step away and wait.
Whatever happens now there will be a large number of people ranting angry: Revoke and Remain: Civil unrest - literal riots as large protest marches turn nasty. Leavers talk about the need to remove the democratic vote from charlatan politicians Norway+: Millions of people indignant that having left the EU we haven't left the EU May's Deal: same as Norway Plus. People have no idea what "leave" or "European Union" meant No deal: Remainers talk about the need to remove the democratic vote from idiot voters. Millions of leavers indignant that "Project Fear" turned out to be the verifiable facts they insisted they weren't .
Politically both big parties are fucked. Both with split even if it's not a formal break. Fun times...
Mays counting down the clock strategy is effective but hugely damaging. By effectively blocking anything but her deal she is denying sensible thoughts any oxygen. The price for her deal is to deepen divisions at home. We see that here today. The positional power of a PM trumps other options, regardless of how unpopular she might be. It feels like the only rational response is to step away and wait.
Whatever happens now there will be a large number of people ranting angry: Revoke and Remain: Civil unrest - literal riots as large protest marches turn nasty. Leavers talk about the need to remove the democratic vote from charlatan politicians Norway+: Millions of people indignant that having left the EU we haven't left the EU May's Deal: same as Norway Plus. People have no idea what "leave" or "European Union" meant No deal: Remainers talk about the need to remove the democratic vote from idiot voters. Millions of leavers indignant that "Project Fear" turned out to be the verifiable facts they insisted they weren't .
Politically both big parties are fucked. Both with split even if it's not a formal break. Fun times...
Mays counting down the clock strategy is effective but hugely damaging. By effectively blocking anything but her deal she is denying sensible thoughts any oxygen. The price for her deal is to deepen divisions at home. We see that here today. The positional power of a PM trumps other options, regardless of how unpopular she might be. It feels like the only rational response is to step away and wait.
She might reasonably argue that it is not she that is blocking anything but her deal, it is the EU. Unless of course once again this is code for reversing the referendum result.
Oh come on. HMG negotiated and agreed a deal with the EU. The failure is that she didn’t take her party with her. She will blame anyone of course, but reasonably? Not on your nelly.
Oh I don't disagree with you and as you may have noticed I am not a fan of Mrs May at all. But at this point the Deal is what it is and the EU have made clear that it will not be revisited. So whilst I will heap blame on May for getting us to this point, she cannot now be blamed for stating truthfully that the Deal is on a Take it or Leave it basis.
no places like Morrocco or Florida or Turkey. Thats assuming they have a problem in the first place, all those people with dual nationality will just continue with business as normal. And eventually places in the Med will want their investors back some resorts are stuffed full of Russians who seem to have no problem.
They are not full of Russians who have very little money. FoM in the EU27 will now only apply to those few that can afford it.
and brits who dont have much money arent there either, all youre saying is the beter off can afford to go places.
Nonsense. The Costas are home to large numbers of Brits on very average incomes and of very average means. For the last 40 years living, working and retiring to the sun have been attainable dreams for millions. That is about to end. That may not bother you, but it will bother plenty of other Leave voters who never realised ending freedom of movement didn’t only apply to foreigners.
so your view is the Spanish government will remove a major source of income just to keep Brussels happy.
The income will still be there. No-one’s going to be thrown out. Other northern Europeans will still be able to retire to Spain - and probably a little more cheaply than before.
so in effect there will be some inconvenience but money is money and things will continue
so whats all the doom mongering about ?
I am not doom-mongeribg, merely observing that only rich Brits will be able to retire to the Med in future. If you can buy a €500,000 property and afford health insurance you’ll be fine.
No its just wild conjecture the spanish government basically is who we should listen to
Brexit Britain is likely to continue agricultural and fisheries policy much the same as current CAP and CFP. Indeed arch Brexiteer Gove has promised to maintain existing agricultural subsidies and fishing quotas, not least because of the inevitable legal difficulties in untangling them.
As was pointed out in o happen!
More to the point, if being a member of the EU's CAP and CFP and bound by its rules is the only way ofto implement on a do as you are told basis.
As Brits realise ending freedom of movement affects them too, expect that to also be on the table once more. Most people won’t retire to the Med, but I suspect a lot of people like to think they might.
Yes, much as I like the Isle of Wight, I do rather fancy a little more winter sun. Fortunately I am rich enough and enjoy good health so can
It will cost Brits €500,000 to get a residence visa to live in Spain post-Brexit. That’s the minimum property investment required for non-EU citizens
theyll just go somewhere else
Bridlington?
no places like Morrocco or Florida or Turkey. Thats assuming they have a problem in the first place, all those people with dual nationality will just continue with business as normal. And eventually places in the Med will want their investors back some resorts are stuffed full of Russians who seem to have no problem.
Rich Russians.
Good luck getting a residence visa to live in Florida if you’re living on a UK pension and don’t have big savings. Not sure going to live in increasingly Islamicised Turkey and Morocco will appeal to many, but we’ll find out, I guess. Still, you’ll be fine - as will I - so, phew!!
Extrapolating a bit of inconvenience to absurd levels isnt actually making an argument for remain.
Currently youre like one of those blokes with a placard saying the end is nigh
Theyre always disappointed
Brits who go to work or study abroad largely prefer English-speaking places, notwithstanding immigration controls. TheUSA, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand
Evidence? Berlin is currently popular in my world. They speak English at work I suppose.
ONS, Living Abroad, 2017. 65% of British expats live in the US, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and South Africa.
no places like Morrocco or Florida or Turkey. Thats assuming they have a problem in the first place, all those people with dual nationality will just continue with business as normal. And eventually places in the Med will want their investors back some resorts are stuffed full of Russians who seem to have no problem.
They are not full of Russians who have very little money. FoM in the EU27 will now only apply to those few that can afford it.
and brits who dont have much money arent there either, all youre saying is the beter off can afford to go places.
Nonsense. The Costas are home to large numbers of Brits on very average incomes and of very average means. For the last 40 years living, working and retiring to the sun have been attainable dreams for millions. That is about to end. That may not bother you, but it will bother plenty of other Leave voters who never realised ending freedom of movement didn’t only apply to foreigners.
I don’t know any who’ve retired to the Costas, except felix. I do know a number who have second homes in France.
Personally, neither are my cup of tea. But I suspect the most likely outcome is that France and Spain tweak their residency laws.
I’d be surprised if either changed their immigration regimes to accommodate the Brits without any reciprocity. And given the wording of the political declaration I’d be very surprised if such changes were undertaken on a country by country basis. That’s why, going back to my original Tweet, I think FoM will return to the table.
no places like Morrocco or Florida or Turkey. Thats assuming they have a problem in the first place, all those people with dual nationality will just continue with business as normal. And eventually places in the Med will want their investors back some resorts are stuffed full of Russians who seem to have no problem.
They are not full of Russians who have very little money. FoM in the EU27 will now only apply to those few that can afford it.
and brits who dont have much money arent there either, all youre saying is the beter off can afford to go places.
Nonsense. The Costas are home to large numbers of Brits on very average incomes and of very average means. For the last 40 years living, working and retiring to the sun have been attainable dreams for millions. That is about to end. That may not bother you, but it will bother plenty of other Leave voters who never realised ending freedom of movement didn’t only apply to foreigners.
I don’t know any who’ve retired to the Costas, except felix. I do know a number who have second homes in France.
Personally, neither are my cup of tea. But I suspect the most likely outcome is that France and Spain tweak their residency laws.
I’d be surprised if either changed their immigration regimes to accommodate the Brits without any reciprocity. And given the wording of the political declaration I’d be very surprised if such changes were undertaken on a country by country basis. That’s why, going back to my original Tweet, I think FoM will return to the table.
You're still fighting the referendum more than two years after the result was announced.
Ratchetting up Project Fear rather than accepting the result. Had we voted for Jezza in 2017 instead of May (just), you're the equivalent of running a campaign in every constituency against sitting MPs because you didn't like the result and you still demand a re-run.
So exactly like the 2017 election. Or the October 1974 election. Or the 1951 election. We had an election. We had a re-run.
When you describe "Project fear" I assume you mean the detailed factual descriptions of how business, logistics, customs, trade deals etc etc actually work? Osborne bleating about crashes - that was project fear. Nissan cancelling planned investment in Sunderland, that's just reality
Listening to that idiot woman chuntering on on the Today programme put me in a filthy mood. She keeps talking about a negotiation which stopped last November. How thick must she be not to realise that?
The fact that Juncker et al are too polite to shut the door in May’s face when she turns up bleating piteously for something she won’t get does not mean there is a negotiation going on.
Leadsom, as an ex-HR person, reminds me of the many infuriatingly stupid HR persons I have had to deal with during my working life. No wonder HR stands for Human Remains.
All of them are Brexit. All of them fulfil the mandate of the 2016 referendum so none of them are BINO. Norway + is a deeply stupid idea for reasons set out many times before. However Norway is a very good idea and should be the end point.
Genuine question, what about the NI border? Technological solutions?
Yes. It is where we will end up anyway. And if we are looking at the Norway option (which I do understand isn't an option at present) then many of the issues over regulatory alignment go away and we are left with dealing with it as a straight tax border.
Mays counting down the clock strategy is effective but hugely damaging. By effectively blocking anything but her deal she is denying sensible thoughts any oxygen. The price for her deal is to deepen divisions at home. We see that here today. The positional power of a PM trumps other options, regardless of how unpopular she might be. It feels like the only rational response is to step away and wait.
Whatever happens now there will be a large number of people ranting angry: Revoke and Remain: Civil unrest - literal riots as large protest marches turn nasty. Leavers talk about the need to remove the democratic vote from charlatan politicians Norway+: Millions of people indignant that having left the EU we haven't left the EU May's Deal: same as Norway Plus. People have no idea what "leave" or "European Union" meant No deal: Remainers talk about the need to remove the democratic vote from idiot voters. Millions of leavers indignant that "Project Fear" turned out to be the verifiable facts they insisted they weren't .
Politically both big parties are fucked. Both with split even if it's not a formal break. Fun times...
hyperbole
Which bit? Which is the scenario where there aren't a mass of people at best very unhappy and at worst making the yellow vests look like a school picnic?
Brexit Britain is likely to continue agricultural and fisheries policy much the same as current CAP and CFP. Indeed arch Brexiteer Gove has promised to maintain existing agricultural subsidies and fishing quotas, not least because of the inevitable legal difficulties in untangling them.
As was pointed out in o happen!
More to the point, if being a member of the EU's CAP and CFP and bound by its rules is the only way ofto implement on a do as you are told basis.
As Brits realise ending freedom of movement affects them too, expect that to also be on the table once more. Most people won’t retire to the Med, but I suspect a lot of people like to think they might.
Yes, much as I like the Isle of Wight, I do rather fancy a little more winter sun. Fortunately I am rich enough and enjoy good health so can
It will cost Brits €500,000 to get a residence visa to live in Spain post-Brexit. That’s the minimum property investment required for non-EU citizens
theyll just go somewhere else
Bridlington?
Rich Russians.
Good luck getting a residence visa to live in Florida if you’re living on a UK pension and don’t have big savings. Not sure going to live in increasingly Islamicised Turkey and Morocco will appeal to many, but we’ll find out, I guess. Still, you’ll be fine - as will I - so, phew!!
Extrapolating a bit of inconvenience to absurd levels isnt actually making an argument for remain.
Currently youre like one of those blokes with a placard saying the end is nigh
Theyre always disappointed
Brits who go to work or study abroad largely prefer English-speaking places, notwithstanding immigration controls. TheUSA, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand
Evidence? Berlin is currently popular in my world. They speak English at work I suppose.
ONS, Living Abroad, 2017. 65% of British expats live in the US, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and South Africa.
Living =/= Working. Wonder what the figure is excluding the retired and dual nationals. I was working in the EU last week, does that count?
Only the standstill transition period, where nothing has changed except that we are out of the political institutions and formally not a member of the EU, is BINO. Everything else is out of the EU with a more or less close relationship.
Mays counting down the clock strategy is effective but hugely damaging. By effectively blocking anything but her deal she is denying sensible thoughts any oxygen. The price for her deal is to deepen divisions at home. We see that here today. The positional power of a PM trumps other options, regardless of how unpopular she might be. It feels like the only rational response is to step away and wait.
Whatever happens now there will be a large number of people ranting angry: Revoke and Remain: Civil unrest - literal riots as large protest marches turn nasty. Leavers talk about the need to remove the democratic vote from charlatan politicians Norway+: Millions of people indignant that having left the EU we haven't left the EU May's Deal: same as Norway Plus. People have no idea what "leave" or "European Union" meant No deal: Remainers talk about the need to remove the democratic vote from idiot voters. Millions of leavers indignant that "Project Fear" turned out to be the verifiable facts they insisted they weren't .
Politically both big parties are fucked. Both with split even if it's not a formal break. Fun times...
hyperbole
Which bit? Which is the scenario where there aren't a mass of people at best very unhappy and at worst making the yellow vests look like a school picnic?
no places like Morrocco or Florida or Turkey. Thats assuming they have a problem in the first place, all those people with dual nationality will just continue with business as normal. And eventually places in the Med will want their investors back some resorts are stuffed full of Russians who seem to have no problem.
They are not full of Russians who have very little money. FoM in the EU27 will now only apply to those few that can afford it.
and brits who dont have much money arent there either, all youre saying is the beter off can afford to go places.
Nonsense. The Costas are home to large numbers of Brits on very average incomes and of very average means. For the last 40 years living, working and retiring to the sun have been attainable dreams for millions. That is about to end. That may not bother you, but it will bother plenty of other Leave voters who never realised ending freedom of movement didn’t only apply to foreigners.
so your view is the Spanish government will remove a major source of income just to keep Brussels happy.
The income will still be there. No-one’s going to be thrown out. Other northern Europeans will still be able to retire to Spain - and probably a little more cheaply than before.
so in effect there will be some inconvenience but money is money and things will continue
so whats all the doom mongering about ?
I am not doom-mongeribg, merely observing that only rich Brits will be able to retire to the Med in future. If you can buy a €500,000 property and afford health insurance you’ll be fine.
No its just wild conjecture the spanish government basically is who we should listen to
I have no prior knowledge but Id guess we will end up with an arrangement similar to Norway or Switzerland where people still go to Spain
“British citizens living in Spain” is kind of key in that report. It does not say British citizens who might want to live in Spain in the future. May’s red lines currently mean that we cannot have a Norwegian or Swiss style arrangement. But as I said in my original post, the Brits waking up to the fact FoM applies to them as well means that will change.
How about BIPO. Brexit in Practice Only. We carry on as members but don't send anyone to the EU parliament. That way we lose our influence without all the costs associated with leaving.
Listening to that idiot woman chuntering on on the Today programme put me in a filthy mood. She keeps talking about a negotiation which stopped last November. How thick must she be not to realise that?
The fact that Juncker et al are too polite to shut the door in May’s face when she turns up bleating piteously for something she won’t get does not mean there is a negotiation going on.
Leadsom, as an ex-HR person, reminds me of the many infuriatingly stupid HR persons I have had to deal with during my working life. No wonder HR stands for Human Remains.
Grrrr.....!!!!
Turn the radio off, step away from the keyboard. You can do nothing now. Let it wash over you. Wait.
Brexit Britain is likely to continue agricultural and fisheries policy much the same as current CAP and CFP. Indeed arch Brexiteer Gove has promised to maintain existing agricultural subsidies and fishing quotas, not least because of the inevitable legal difficulties in untangling them.
As was pointed out in o happen!
More to the point, if being a member of the EU's CAP and CFP and bound by its rules is the only way ofto implement on a do as you are told basis.
As Brits realise ending freedom of movement affects them too, expect that to also be on the table once more. Most people won’t retire to the Med, but I suspect a lot of people like to think they might.
Yes, much as I like the Isle of Wight, I do rather fancy a little more winter sun. Fortunately I am rich enough and enjoy good health so can
It will cost Brits €500,000 to get a residence visa to live in Spain post-Brexit. That’s the minimum property investment required for non-EU citizens
theyll just go somewhere else
Bridlington?
Rich Russians.
Good luck getting a residence visa to live in Florida if you’re living on a UK pension and don’t have big savings. Not sure going to live in increasingly Islamicised Turkey and Morocco will appeal to many, but we’ll find out, I guess. Still, you’ll be fine - as will I - so, phew!!
Extrapolating a bit of inconvenience to absurd levels isnt actually making an argument for remain.
Currently youre like one of those blokes with a placard saying the end is nigh
Theyre always disappointed
Brits who go to work or study abroad largely prefer English-speaking places, notwithstanding immigration controls. TheUSA, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand
Evidence? Berlin is currently popular in my world. They speak English at work I suppose.
ONS, Living Abroad, 2017. 65% of British expats live in the US, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and South Africa.
Living =/= Working. Wonder what the figure is excluding the retired and dual nationals. I was working in the EU last week, does that count?
no
it will only count if you have worked more than half the year in another country. Then their taxman will be after you.
no places like Morrocco or Florida or Turkey. Thats assuming they have a problem in the first place, all those people with dual nationality will just continue with business as normal. And eventually places in the Med will want their investors back some resorts are stuffed full of Russians who seem to have no problem.
They are not full of Russians who have very little money. FoM in the EU27 will now only apply to those few that can afford it.
and brits who dont have much money arent there either, all youre saying is the beter off can afford to go places.
Nonsense. The Costas are home to large numbers of Brits on very average incomes and of very average means. For the last 40 years living, working and retiring to the sun have been attainable dreams for millions. That is about to end. That may not bother you, but it will bother plenty of other Leave voters who never realised ending freedom of movement didn’t only apply to foreigners.
Those people are probably in the top 25% of wealth among the EU population and richer than 90% of those who migrate to the UK from the rest of the EU.
FPT That's a fascinating survey from Yougov. Hugo Swire must really have upset his voters.
It was like that in the run-up to the 17GE as well. It was the single piece of information that convinced me (wrongly) that the YouGov model hadn't been properly checked. Ah well.
Claire Wright has the left wing/anti-Brexit vote sewn up. But I don't think it's enough.
Still, Swire has hugely underperformed the Conservatives in general, in a constituency which should be very safe. His vote share is no higher than in 2001. The Conservatives should select a new candidate.
There's been some changes to boundaries in that time (from Wiki):
Following a review of parliamentary representation in Devon by the Boundary Commission for England, which has increased the number of seats in the county from 11 to 12, East Devon was subject to significant boundary changes at the 2010 general election.[2] In particular, the towns of Axminster and Seaton were transferred to the Tiverton and Honiton constituency. Also, two wards from the City of Exeter are now part of the East Devon seat.
Also, note the number of voters in the two seats:
2001
East Devon - 69,530 Tiverton and Honiton - 80,612
2017
East Devon - 82,377 Tiverton and Honiton - 80,860
My guess is that the increase in population in East Devon hasn't necessarily been to the Tories' advantage.
It's telling that some pb tories will even attempt a half-hearted, limp dicked defence of the Fireplace Salesman but none will ever go into bat for Grayteeth.
Grayling’s Dept of Transport spent £800,000 on consultants who assessed whether or not his no ferry ferry company could provide ferries
It's telling that some pb tories will even attempt a half-hearted, limp dicked defence of the Fireplace Salesman but none will ever go into bat for Grayteeth.
Im not defending Gavin Williamson, but it is utterly cu**ish to deride him as a “fireplace salesman”. It seems he had a not unsuccessful career as a MD of a pottery company and a fireplace manufacturer.
But you know all this, as it was discussed yesterday. Yet again you deride him.
no places like Morrocco or Florida or Turkey. Thats assuming they have a problem in the first place, all those people with dual nationality will just continue with business as normal. And eventually places in the Med will want their investors back some resorts are stuffed full of Russians who seem to have no problem.
They are not full of Russians who have very little money. FoM in the EU27 will now only apply to those few that can afford it.
and brits who dont have much money arent there either, all youre saying is the beter off can afford to go places.
Nonsense. The Costas are home to large numbers of Brits on very average incomes and of very average means. For the last 40 years living, working and retiring to the sun have been attainable dreams for millions. That is about to end. That may not bother you, but it will bother plenty of other Leave voters who never realised ending freedom of movement didn’t only apply to foreigners.
Those people are probably in the top 25% of wealth among the EU population and richer than 90% of those who migrate to the UK from the rest of the EU.
Listening to that idiot woman chuntering on on the Today programme put me in a filthy mood. She keeps talking about a negotiation which stopped last November. How thick must she be not to realise that?
The fact that Juncker et al are too polite to shut the door in May’s face when she turns up bleating piteously for something she won’t get does not mean there is a negotiation going on.
Leadsom, as an ex-HR person, reminds me of the many infuriatingly stupid HR persons I have had to deal with during my working life. No wonder HR stands for Human Remains.
Grrrr.....!!!!
Get real - it was always going to take until one minute to midnight for the hopes on all sides to be extinguished. The hopes of a better Brexit, of no Brexit.
What we should have done about last July was have the EU agree to move the Article 50 deadline from March 29th 2019 to August 15th 2018. And tell MPs that if they hadn't agreed an alternative by then, the Meaningful Vote would be August 14th. So scrub those holiday plans.....
Then, as now, the one minute to midnight vote will come down to a choice between May's Shit Deal and No Deal.
Dreamainers - do you want No Deal Brexit on your conscience? Because that is what your fannying around has kept on life support for all these months. Make the leap - accept we are leaving. Then work out which hurts your constituents least.
Brexit Britain is likely to continue agricultural and fisheries policy much the same as current CAP and CFP. Indeed arch Brexiteer Gove has promised to maintain existing agricultural subsidies and fishing quotas, not least because of the inevitable legal difficulties in untangling them.
As was pointed out in o happen!
More to the point, if being a member of the EU's CAP and CFP and bound by its rules is the only way ofto implement on a do as you are told basis.
As Brits realise ending freedom of movement affects them too, expect that to also be on the table once more. Most people won’t retire to the Med, but I suspect a lot of people like to think they might.
Yes, much as I like the Isle of Wight, I do rather fancy a little more winter sun. Fortunately I am rich enough and enjoy good health so can
It will cost Brits €500,000 to get a residence visa to live in Spain post-Brexit. That’s the minimum property investment required for non-EU citizens
theyll just go somewhere else
Bridlington?
Rich Russians.
Good luck getting a residence visa to live in Florida if you’re living on a UK pension and don’t have big savings. Not sure going to live in increasingly Islamicised Turkey and Morocco will appeal to many, but we’ll find out, I guess. Still, you’ll be fine - as will I - so, phew!!
Extrapolating a bit of inconvenience to absurd levels isnt actually making an argument for remain.
Currently youre like one of those blokes with a placard saying the end is nigh
Theyre always disappointed
Brits who go to work or study abroad largely prefer English-speaking places, notwithstanding immigration controls. TheUSA, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand
Evidence? Berlin is currently popular in my world. They speak English at work I suppose.
ONS, Living Abroad, 2017. 65% of British expats live in the US, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and South Africa.
Living =/= Working. Wonder what the figure is excluding the retired and dual nationals. I was working in the EU last week, does that count?
As I said earlier, 76% of UK Nationals working overseas do so outside the EU. That is the 2017 number from the ONS.
no places like Morrocco or Florida or Turkey. Thats assuming they have a problem in the first place, all those people with dual nationality will just continue with business as normal. And eventually places in the Med will want their investors back some resorts are stuffed full of Russians who seem to have no problem.
They are not full of Russians who have very little money. FoM in the EU27 will now only apply to those few that can afford it.
and brits who dont have much money arent there either, all youre saying is the beter off can afford to go places.
Nonsense. The Costas are home to large numbe ending freedom of movement didn’t only apply to foreigners.
so your view is the Spanish government will remove a major source of income just to keep Brussels happy.
than before.
so in effect there will be some inconvenience but money is money and things will continue
so whats all the doom mongering about ?
I am not doom-mongeribg, merely observing that only rich Brits wil insurance you’ll be fine.
No its just wild conjecture the spanish government basically is who we should listen to
“British citizens living in Spain” is kind of key in that report. It does not say British citizens who might want to live in Spain in the future. May’s red lines currently mean that we cannot have a Norwegian or Swiss style arrangement. But as I said in my original post, the Brits waking up to the fact FoM applies to them as well means that will change.
I see no reason why spanish businesses will want to choke off future revenues. There will be more red tape but most of that gets hived off to agents and lawyers in any case.
FPT That's a fascinating survey from Yougov. Hugo Swire must really have upset his voters.
It was like that in the run-up to the 17GE as well. It was the single piece of information that convinced me (wrongly) that the YouGov model hadn't been properly checked. Ah well.
FPT That's a fascinating survey from Yougov. Hugo Swire must really have upset his voters.
It was like that in the run-up to the 17GE as well. It was the single piece of information that convinced me (wrongly) that the YouGov model hadn't been properly checked. Ah well.
Claire Wright has the left wing/anti-Brexit vote sewn up. But I don't think it's enough.
Still, Swire has hugely underperformed the Conservatives in general, in a constituency which should be very safe. His vote share is no higher than in 2001. The Conservatives should select a new candidate.
Agree entirely. I just don't see how YouGov can have anything like enough East Devon constituents for their model there to have any predictive power. It relies on assuming similar voters in similar areas will trend the same way, and East Devon is pretty much unique.
I think they might have had it down as an IND gain in their other constituency poll that got Canterbury and Kensington right before the election, so maybe special factors for that one make it harder to judge like you said.
Model v1 had it down as a gain; v2 as a narrow hold. In the end he "held on" by 8k votes.
no places like Morrocco or Florida or Turkey. Thats assuming they have a problem in the first place, all those people with dual nationality will just continue with business as normal. And eventually places in the Med will want their investors back some resorts are stuffed full of Russians who seem to have no problem.
They are not full of Russians who have very little money. FoM in the EU27 will now only apply to those few that can afford it.
and brits who dont have much money arent there either, all youre saying is the beter off can afford to go places.
Nonsense. The Costas are home to large numbers of Brits on very average incomes and of very average means. For the last 40 years living, working and retiring to the sun have been attainable dreams for millions. That is about to end. That may not bother you, but it will bother plenty of other Leave voters who never realised ending freedom of movement didn’t only apply to foreigners.
Those people are probably in the top 25% of wealth among the EU population and richer than 90% of those who migrate to the UK from the rest of the EU.
So what? They still lose their FoM.
What do you think the chances are that Spain will refuse to allow any further immigration of Brits without them stumping up £500k post Brexit?
no places like Morrocco or Florida or Turkey. Thats assuming they have a problem in the first place, all those people with dual nationality will just continue with business as normal. And eventually places in the Med will want their investors back some resorts are stuffed full of Russians who seem to have no problem.
They are not full of Russians who have very little money. FoM in the EU27 will now only apply to those few that can afford it.
and brits who dont have much money arent there either, all youre saying is the beter off can afford to go places.
Nonsense. The Costas are home to large numbe ending freedom of movement didn’t only apply to foreigners.
so your view is the Spanish government will remove a major source of income just to keep Brussels happy.
than before.
so in effect there will be some inconvenience but money is money and things will continue
so whats all the doom mongering about ?
I am not doom-mongeribg, merely observing that only rich Brits wil insurance you’ll be fine.
No its just wild conjecture the spanish government basically is who we should listen to
“British citizens living in Spain” is kind of key in that report. It does not say British citizens who might want to live in Spain in the future. May’s red lines currently mean that we cannot have a Norwegian or Swiss style arrangement. But as I said in my original post, the Brits waking up to the fact FoM applies to them as well means that will change.
I see no reason why spanish businesses will want to choke off future revenues. There will be more red tape but most of that gets hived off to agents and lawyers in any case.
You could see no reason why the Irish border would be an issue. If it were down to businesses it wouldn’t be.
no places like Morrocco or Florida or Turkey. Thats assuming they have a problem in the first place, all those people with dual nationality will just continue with business as normal. And eventually places in the Med will want their investors back some resorts are stuffed full of Russians who seem to have no problem.
They are not full of Russians who have very little money. FoM in the EU27 will now only apply to those few that can afford it.
and brits who dont have much money arent there either, all youre saying is the beter off can afford to go places.
Nonsense. The Costas are home to large numbe ending freedom of movement didn’t only apply to foreigners.
so your view is the Spanish government will remove a major source of income just to keep Brussels happy.
than before.
so in effect there will be some inconvenience but money is money and things will continue
so whats all the doom mongering about ?
I am not doom-mongeribg, merely observing that only rich Brits wil insurance you’ll be fine.
No its just wild conjecture the spanish government basically is who we should listen to
“British citizens living in Spain” is kind of key in that report. It does not say British citizens who might want to live in Spain in the future. May’s red lines currently mean that we cannot have a Norwegian or Swiss style arrangement. But as I said in my original post, the Brits waking up to the fact FoM applies to them as well means that will change.
I see no reason why spanish businesses will want to choke off future revenues. There will be more red tape but most of that gets hived off to agents and lawyers in any case.
You could see no reason why the Irish border would be an issue. If it were down to businesses it wouldn’t be.
the Irish border shouldnt be an issue, Varadkar made it one for electoral advantage, which is now turning out not to be so advantageous
How about BIPO. Brexit in Practice Only. We carry on as members but don't send anyone to the EU parliament. That way we lose our influence without all the costs associated with leaving.
The best option is the personal Brexit. By each paying a few thousand a year (representing their economic loss under a full Brexit), people can opt into the personal Brexit club personal membership programme.
The more you pay the harder the Brexit experience you get. Members of the hard Brexit club get to opt out of services and NHS treatment provided by EU nationals, they get to choose from a wealth of global produce. They can buy all the Chlorinated Chicken they want. They get to wait in their own special queues at airports. There is a free bendy banana with each membership.
Back to the 16-1700's when merchantmen were converted to fighting ships and back again. All part of the Grand Tory Plan.
I thought the whole point was we don't have enough ferries anyway. If so, how are we supposed to spare any to convert to other uses. (Ignoring the fact it is utterly impractical I would have thought)
Schrodinger's Brexit: we open the box on March 30, No Deal. I'm 95% sure of this.
So what happens next?
A lot of things will swing into action very quickly just to allow modern life to function. Yes, there will be queues at the borders, some headless chickens on the financial markets, a few of the nutters hosting spam fritter parties (or whatever) but - outside political and media bubbles - most people will simply have to roll their sleeves up and get on with their lives.
My thoughts are:
- some big, luminous agreement on settled status to kick in immediately so the 3 million EU citizens can get on with their lives (and more importantly, remove them from purgatory of not knowing what happens). - pragmatic solutions kick in at the border. It's amazing how many rules you can overlook just to wave the trucks through (to anyone looking to get anything/anyone into the country, now's your chance!) - snap election to lance the HoC boil?
But it's a genuine question. What immediate, pragmatic things do you think will happen to allow us to continue to function? Our politicians are probably not thinking about this - so websites like this should...
Brexit Britain is likely to continue agricultural and fisheries policy much the same as current CAP and CFP. Indeed arch Brexiteer Gove has promised to maintain existing agricultural subsidies and fishing quotas, not least because of the inevitable legal difficulties in untangling them.
As was pointed out in o happen!
More to the point, if being a member of the EU's CAP and CFP and bound by its rules is the only way ofto implement on a do as you are told basis.
As Brits realise ending freedom of movement affects them too, expect that to also be on the table once more. Most people won’t retire to the Med, but I suspect a lot of people like to think they might.
It will cost Brits €500,000 to get a residence visa to live in Spain post-Brexit. That’s the minimum property investment required for non-EU citizens
theyll just go somewhere else
Bridlington?
Rich Russians.
Good luck getting a residence visa to live in Florida if you’re living on a UK pension and don’t have big savings. Not sure going to live in increasingly Islamicised Turkey and Morocco will appeal to many, but we’ll find out, I guess. Still, you’ll be fine - as will I - so, phew!!
Extrapolating a bit of inconvenience to absurd levels isnt actually making an argument for remain.
Currently youre like one of those blokes with a placard saying the end is nigh
Theyre always disappointed
Brits who go to work or study abroad largely prefer English-speaking places, notwithstanding immigration controls. TheUSA, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand
Evidence? Berlin is currently popular in my world. They speak English at work I suppose.
ONS, Living Abroad, 2017. 65% of British expats live in the US, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and South Africa.
Living =/= Working. Wonder what the figure is excluding the retired and dual nationals. I was working in the EU last week, does that count?
As I said earlier, 76% of UK Nationals working overseas do so outside the EU. That is the 2017 number from the ONS.
Is that full time work, or people doing business in Europe?
Schrodinger's Brexit: we open the box on March 30, No Deal. I'm 95% sure of this.
So what happens next?
A lot of things will swing into action very quickly just to allow modern life to function. Yes, there will be queues at the borders, some headless chickens on the financial markets, a few of the nutters hosting spam fritter parties (or whatever) but - outside political and media bubbles - most people will simply have to roll their sleeves up and get on with their lives.
My thoughts are:
- some big, luminous agreement on settled status to kick in immediately so the 3 million EU citizens can get on with their lives (and more importantly, remove them from purgatory of not knowing what happens). - pragmatic solutions kick in at the border. It's amazing how many rules you can overlook just to wave the trucks through (to anyone looking to get anything/anyone into the country, now's your chance!) - snap election to lance the HoC boil?
But it's a genuine question. What immediate, pragmatic things do you think will happen to allow us to continue to function? Our politicians are probably not thinking about this - so websites like this should...
if theres no deal things will happen a fortnight before 30 March because they have to.
“British citizens living in Spain” is kind of key in that report. It does not say British citizens who might want to live in Spain in the future. May’s red lines currently mean that we cannot have a Norwegian or Swiss style arrangement. But as I said in my original post, the Brits waking up to the fact FoM applies to them as well means that will change.
The sort of Brits who value their own FoM are very different to the type of Brits who want to limit the FoM of non-Brits.
It's telling that some pb tories will even attempt a half-hearted, limp dicked defence of the Fireplace Salesman but none will ever go into bat for Grayteeth.
Im not defending Gavin Williamson, but it is utterly cu**ish to deride him as a “fireplace salesman”. It seems he had a not unsuccessful career as a MD of a pottery company and a fireplace manufacturer.
But you know all this, as it was discussed yesterday. Yet again you deride him.
Tbh if that's your benchmark for utter cnutishness, you've kind of used up your ultimate deterrent on a bush war.
It's telling that some pb tories will even attempt a half-hearted, limp dicked defence of the Fireplace Salesman but none will ever go into bat for Grayteeth.
Grayling’s Dept of Transport spent £800,000 on consultants who assessed whether or not his no ferry ferry company could provide ferries
I think the consultants should be named, too.
They will be Tory chums for certain, donors to party etc.
Schrodinger's Brexit: we open the box on March 30, No Deal. I'm 95% sure of this.
So what happens next?
A lot of things will swing into action very quickly just to allow modern life to function. Yes, there will be queues at the borders, some headless chickens on the financial markets, a few of the nutters hosting spam fritter parties (or whatever) but - outside political and media bubbles - most people will simply have to roll their sleeves up and get on with their lives.
My thoughts are:
- some big, luminous agreement on settled status to kick in immediately so the 3 million EU citizens can get on with their lives (and more importantly, remove them from purgatory of not knowing what happens). - pragmatic solutions kick in at the border. It's amazing how many rules you can overlook just to wave the trucks through (to anyone looking to get anything/anyone into the country, now's your chance!) - snap election to lance the HoC boil?
But it's a genuine question. What immediate, pragmatic things do you think will happen to allow us to continue to function? Our politicians are probably not thinking about this - so websites like this should...
The 3 million EU citizens here is a red herring anyway. The Government already committed to enacting the settlement scheme that was part of the Deal even if No Deal results.
no places like Morrocco or Florida or Turkey. Thats assuming they have a problem in the first place, all those people with dual nationality will just continue with business as normal. And eventually places in the Med will want their investors back some resorts are stuffed full of Russians who seem to have no problem.
They are not full of Russians who have very little money. FoM in the EU27 will now only apply to those few that can afford it.
and brits who dont have much money arent there either, all youre saying is the beter off can afford to go places.
Nonsense. The Costas are home to large numbers of Brits on very average incomes and of very average means. For the last 40 years living, working and retiring to the sun have been attainable dreams for millions. That is about to end. That may not bother you, but it will bother plenty of other Leave voters who never realised ending freedom of movement didn’t only apply to foreigners.
Those people are probably in the top 25% of wealth among the EU population and richer than 90% of those who migrate to the UK from the rest of the EU.
So what? They still lose their FoM.
And as you've agreed before people with wealth find it easier to migrate.
Now perhaps Spain will want to damage their economy by stopping the migration of people who can afford to buy property and who will be spending money in the local shops and bars.
Or perhaps they'll let you down and continue to encourage migration of affluent British people.
Listening to that idiot woman chuntering on on the Today programme put me in a filthy mood. She keeps talking about a negotiation which stopped last November. How thick must she be not to realise that?
The fact that Juncker et al are too polite to shut the door in May’s face when she turns up bleating piteously for something she won’t get does not mean there is a negotiation going on.
Leadsom, as an ex-HR person, reminds me of the many infuriatingly stupid HR persons I have had to deal with during my working life. No wonder HR stands for Human Remains.
Grrrr.....!!!!
Turn the radio off, step away from the keyboard. You can do nothing now. Let it wash over you. Wait.
I find it best to accept no deal is happening, no more worries about whether it will happen. Obviously nothing is certain though.
The EU27 realise Boris Johnson or another Brexiteer will probably be the next UK PM. Johnson is a proven, compulsive liar, as are all the other Buccaneers. Of course, the EU is not going to change the backstop. They don’t trust the UK government. You reap what you sow. The EU found that out in 2016. Now it’s the Brexiteers’ turn. I really want them in charge now. They need to own the consequences of what they advocated completely and unequivocally.
May is no better than those you mention either. Is there such a thing as a Tory who does not lie when their lips move.
One might reasonably extend that question to any politician of any party.
Mr. Brooke, is that true, on Varadkar? I thought polling indicated strong (79%) support for holding out for the backstop, even if it led to a hard border?
“British citizens living in Spain” is kind of key in that report. It does not say British citizens who might want to live in Spain in the future. May’s red lines currently mean that we cannot have a Norwegian or Swiss style arrangement. But as I said in my original post, the Brits waking up to the fact FoM applies to them as well means that will change.
The sort of Brits who value their own FoM are very different to the type of Brits who want to limit the FoM of non-Brits.
Ooh, and 1000 posts! Hooray!
That may be true but it needs data. Also, if we're going by the general vibe of the thing, I wouldn't be surprised if the people who wanted to limit the FoM of non-Brits are also the kind of people who will have the most trouble with visas and things if they do decide to move abroad.
Schrodinger's Brexit: we open the box on March 30, No Deal. I'm 95% sure of this.
So what happens next?
A lot of things will swing into action very quickly just to allow modern life to function. Yes, there will be queues at the borders, some headless chickens on the financial markets, a few of the nutters hosting spam fritter parties (or whatever) but - outside political and media bubbles - most people will simply have to roll their sleeves up and get on with their lives.
My thoughts are:
- some big, luminous agreement on settled status to kick in immediately so the 3 million EU citizens can get on with their lives (and more importantly, remove them from purgatory of not knowing what happens). - pragmatic solutions kick in at the border. It's amazing how many rules you can overlook just to wave the trucks through (to anyone looking to get anything/anyone into the country, now's your chance!) - snap election to lance the HoC boil?
But it's a genuine question. What immediate, pragmatic things do you think will happen to allow us to continue to function? Our politicians are probably not thinking about this - so websites like this should...
I'm not so sure that all the regulations required to keep thing 'flowing as normal' will be overlooked.
We have a very regulated society with fines if you ignore them.
no places like Morrocco or Florida or Turkey. Thats assuming they have a problem in the first place, all those people with dual nationality will just continue with business as normal. And eventually places in the Med will want their investors back some resorts are stuffed full of Russians who seem to have no problem.
They are not full of Russians who have very little money. FoM in the EU27 will now only apply to those few that can afford it.
and brits who dont have much money arent there either, all youre saying is the beter off can afford to go places.
Nonsense. The Costas are home to large numbers of Brits on very average incomes and of very average means. For the last 40 years living, working and retiring to the sun have been attainable dreams for millions. That is about to end. That may not bother you, but it will bother plenty of other Leave voters who never realised ending freedom of movement didn’t only apply to foreigners.
so your view is the Spanish government will remove a major source of income just to keep Brussels happy.
The income will still be there. No-one’s going to be thrown out. Other northern Europeans will still be able to retire to Spain - and probably a little more cheaply than before.
so in effect there will be some inconvenience but money is money and things will continue
so whats all the doom mongering about ?
I am not doom-mongeribg, merely observing that only rich Brits will be able to retire to the Med in future. If you can buy a €500,000 property and afford health insurance you’ll be fine.
It does sound a bit doom-mongery though.... I looked it up and apparently non-EU citizens can get a long term residency visa (for retirees) in Spain provided they can show they have an annual household income of €32k. So I don’t know where you’ve got €500k from.
And if you can’t afford the €32k, you can still spend 90 days out of 180 in Spain on a tourist visa anyway. So Brexit probably won’t make too much difference.
no places like Morrocco or Florida or Turkey. Thats assuming they have a problem in the first place, all those people with dual nationality will just continue with business as normal. And eventually places in the Med will want their investors back some resorts are stuffed full of Russians who seem to have no problem.
They are not full of Russians who have very little money. FoM in the EU27 will now only apply to those few that can afford it.
and brits who dont have much money arent there either, all youre saying is the beter off can afford to go places.
Nonsense. The Costas are home to large numbers of Brits on very average incomes and of very average means. For the last 40 years living, working and retiring to the sun have been attainable dreams for millions. That is about to end. That may not bother you, but it will bother plenty of other Leave voters who never realised ending freedom of movement didn’t only apply to foreigners.
Those people are probably in the top 25% of wealth among the EU population and richer than 90% of those who migrate to the UK from the rest of the EU.
So what? They still lose their FoM.
What do you think the chances are that Spain will refuse to allow any further immigration of Brits without them stumping up £500k post Brexit?
50/50?
As long as they can buy property and pay health care the Spanish will care not a jot.
The EU27 realise Boris Johnson or another Brexiteer will probably be the next UK PM. Johnson is a proven, compulsive liar, as are all the other Buccaneers. Of course, the EU is not going to change the backstop. They don’t trust the UK government. You reap what you sow. The EU found that out in 2016. Now it’s the Brexiteers’ turn. I really want them in charge now. They need to own the consequences of what they advocated completely and unequivocally.
May is no better than those you mention either. Is there such a thing as a Tory who does not lie when their lips move.
One might reasonably extend that question to any politician of any party.
For sure , hence why the UK is F*******
Malcolm I hate to disabuse you but it is the same the world over. You should hear what the Norwegians think of their politicians. And you already know what the French think of theirs. Basically, with a tiny number of exceptions, to be a politician anywhere in the world you have to be a particularly useless type of bastard.
Listening to that idiot woman chuntering on on the Today programme put me in a filthy mood. She keeps talking about a negotiation which stopped last November. How thick must she be not to realise that?
The fact that Juncker et al are too polite to shut the door in May’s face when she turns up bleating piteously for something she won’t get does not mean there is a negotiation going on.
Leadsom, as an ex-HR person, reminds me of the many infuriatingly stupid HR persons I have had to deal with during my working life. No wonder HR stands for Human Remains.
Grrrr.....!!!!
Turn the radio off, step away from the keyboard. You can do nothing now. Let it wash over you. Wait.
I find it best to accept no deal is happening, no more worries about whether it will happen. Obviously nothing is certain though.
Quite. The lunatics are in charge. They are on an ideological crusade. They don’t want compromise and come up with something acceptable to non believers. They want their Brexit (whatever that means this week) no matter the cost.
no places like Morrocco or Florida or Turkey. Thats assuming they have a problem in the first place, all those people with dual nationality will just continue with business as normal. And eventually places in the Med will want their investors back some resorts are stuffed full of Russians who seem to have no problem.
They are not full of Russians who have very little money. FoM in the EU27 will now only apply to those few that can afford it.
and brits who dont have much money arent there either, all youre saying is the beter off can afford to go places.
Nonsense. The Costas are home to large numbers of Brits on very average incomes and of very average means. For the last 40 years living, working and retiring to the sun have been attainable dreams for millions. That is about to end. That may not bother you, but it will bother plenty of other Leave voters who never realised ending freedom of movement didn’t only apply to foreigners.
Those people are probably in the top 25% of wealth among the EU population and richer than 90% of those who migrate to the UK from the rest of the EU.
So what? They still lose their FoM.
And as you've agreed before people with wealth find it easier to migrate.
Now perhaps Spain will want to damage their economy by stopping the migration of people who can afford to buy property and who will be spending money in the local shops and bars.
Or perhaps they'll let you down and continue to encourage migration of affluent British people.
Yep, if you have €500,000 to spend on a property and can afford health insurance you’ll be allowed in, no problem.
We have taken the decision to damage our economy. I am not sure why you think Spain would change its immigration laws to prevent potential damage to its economy.
no places like Morrocco or Florida or Turkey. Thats assuming they have a problem in the first place, all those people with dual nationality will just continue with business as normal. And eventually places in the Med will want their investors back some resorts are stuffed full of Russians who seem to have no problem.
They are not full of Russians who have very little money. FoM in the EU27 will now only apply to those few that can afford it.
and brits who dont have much money arent there either, all youre saying is the beter off can afford to go places.
Nonsense. The Costas are home to large numbers of Brits on very average incomes and of very average means. For the last 40 years living, working and retiring to the sun have been attainable dreams for millions. That is about to end. That may not bother you, but it will bother plenty of other Leave voters who never realised ending freedom of movement didn’t only apply to foreigners.
so your view is the Spanish government will remove a major source of income just to keep Brussels happy.
The income will still be there. No-one’s going to be thrown out. Other northern Europeans will still be able to retire to Spain - and probably a little more cheaply than before.
so in effect there will be some inconvenience but money is money and things will continue
so whats all the doom mongering about ?
I am not doom-mongeribg, merely observing that only rich Brits will be able to retire to the Med in future. If you can buy a €500,000 property and afford health insurance you’ll be fine.
It does sound a bit doom-mongery though.... I looked it up and apparently non-EU citizens can get a long term residency visa (for retirees) in Spain provided they can show they have an annual household income of €32k. So I don’t know where you’ve got €500k from.
And if you can’t afford the €32k, you can still spend 90 days out of 180 in Spain on a tourist visa anyway. So Brexit probably won’t make too much difference.
A guaranteed income of €32k a year is worth more than €500k...
Here's an interview with Baemy to cheer everybody up. I like the bit where Maddow brings up the oppo about her mistreating her staff and she deploys the stock answer to the classic "do you have any weaknesses" interview question.
Somebody in the Admiralty has obviously taken a look at the USNS Expeditionary Transfer Docks (which are based on an oil tanker) design and liked what they saw. These require 700+ crew each so obviously that isn't happening and the Fireplace Salesman is now positioning an eBay version of the concept called the Littoral Strike Ship probably based on the Caledonian-MacBrayne Lerwick-Kirkwall ferry. He is off his fucking head.
It's telling that some pb tories will even attempt a half-hearted, limp dicked defence of the Fireplace Salesman but none will ever go into bat for Grayteeth.
Im not defending Gavin Williamson, but it is utterly cu**ish to deride him as a “fireplace salesman”. It seems he had a not unsuccessful career as a MD of a pottery company and a fireplace manufacturer.
But you know all this, as it was discussed yesterday. Yet again you deride him.
Tbh if that's your benchmark for utter cnutishness, you've kind of used up your ultimate deterrent on a bush war.
The people mocking him for being an ex-Fireplace salesman are mocking the millions of people who work in sales while they’re at it. It isn’t a defence of Williamson to notice that.
Mr. Brooke, is that true, on Varadkar? I thought polling indicated strong (79%) support for holding out for the backstop, even if it led to a hard border?
Varadkar has doubled up on the border
what wasnt much of an issue about a year back has now become one of national pride. SF and FF have boxed him in on the issue so he has little wiggle room which is mad as thats what you need in an EU negotiation.
On the domestic front he;s getting hammered by a huge cost overrun of a hosptial in Dublin which is damaging his credentials on sound finance and has been put on the backfoot by a nurses strike.
On Brexit the financial impact is just as confused as it is in the UK but the politics is such that whatever goes wrong he owns it.
Currently he is kept in power by by FF , theyre sitting back letting him accumulate mistakes and then theyll pull the plug. His best electoral chances were about 6 months ago
Back to the 16-1700's when merchantmen were converted to fighting ships and back again. All part of the Grand Tory Plan.
I thought the whole point was we don't have enough ferries anyway. If so, how are we supposed to spare any to convert to other uses. (Ignoring the fact it is utterly impractical I would have thought)
If we're buying the ferries it doesn't matter that they're currently registered abroad, which would be a problem as it means they aren't available to be requisitioned for war use as happened in the Falkland's War.
Does the article say what they will be converted to do?
no places like Morrocco or Florida or Turkey. Thats assuming they have a problem in the first place, all those people with dual nationality will just continue with business as normal. And eventually places in the Med will want their investors back some resorts are stuffed full of Russians who seem to have no problem.
They are not full of Russians who have very little money. FoM in the EU27 will now only apply to those few that can afford it.
and brits who dont have much money arent there either, all youre saying is the beter off can afford to go places.
Nonsense. The Costas are home to large numbe ending freedom of movement didn’t only apply to foreigners.
so your view is the Spanish government will remove a major source of income just to keep Brussels happy.
than before.
so in effect there will be some inconvenience but money is money and things will continue
so whats all the doom mongering about ?
I am not doom-mongeribg, merely observing that only rich Brits wil insurance you’ll be fine.
No its just wild conjecture the spanish government basically is who we should listen to
I see no reason why spanish businesses will want to choke off future revenues. There will be more red tape but most of that gets hived off to agents and lawyers in any case.
You could see no reason why the Irish border would be an issue. If it were down to businesses it wouldn’t be.
the Irish border shouldnt be an issue, Varadkar made it one for electoral advantage, which is now turning out not to be so advantageous
He is overwhelmingly backed by Irish voters. But putting that to one side, do you think Spanish politicians are going to reap big electoral rewards by proposing to make it easier to immigrate to Spain?
The EU27 realise Boris Johnson or another Brexiteer will probably be the next UK PM. Johnson is a proven, compulsive liar, as are all the other Buccaneers. Of course, the EU is not going to change the backstop. They don’t trust the UK government. You reap what you sow. The EU found that out in 2016. Now it’s the Brexiteers’ turn. I really want them in charge now. They need to own the consequences of what they advocated completely and unequivocally.
May is no better than those you mention either. Is there such a thing as a Tory who does not lie when their lips move.
One might reasonably extend that question to any politician of any party.
For sure , hence why the UK is F*******
Malcolm I hate to disabuse you but it is the same the world over. You should hear what the Norwegians think of their politicians. And you already know what the French think of theirs. Basically, with a tiny number of exceptions, to be a politician anywhere in the world you have to be a particularly useless type of bastard.
Here's an interview with Baemy to cheer everybody up. I like the bit where Maddow brings up the oppo about her mistreating her staff and she deploys the stock answer to the classic "do you have any weaknesses" interview question.
no places like Morrocco or Florida or Turkey. Thats assuming they have a problem in the first place, all those people with dual nationality will just continue with business as normal. And eventually places in the Med will want their investors back some resorts are stuffed full of Russians who seem to have no problem.
They are not full of Russians who have very little money. FoM in the EU27 will now only apply to those few that can afford it.
and brits who dont have much money arent there either, all youre saying is the beter off can afford to go places.
Nonsense. The Costas are home to large numbers of Brits on very average incomes and of very average means. For the last 40 years living, working and retiring to the sun have been attainable dreams for millions. That is about to end. That may not bother you, but it will bother plenty of other Leave voters who never realised ending freedom of movement didn’t only apply to foreigners.
Those people are probably in the top 25% of wealth among the EU population and richer than 90% of those who migrate to the UK from the rest of the EU.
So what? They still lose their FoM.
And as you've agreed before people with wealth find it easier to migrate.
Now perhaps Spain will want to damage their economy by stopping the migration of people who can afford to buy property and who will be spending money in the local shops and bars.
Or perhaps they'll let you down and continue to encourage migration of affluent British people.
Yep, if you have €500,000 to spend on a property and can afford health insurance you’ll be allowed in, no problem.
We have taken the decision to damage our economy. I am not sure why you think Spain would change its immigration laws to prevent potential damage to its economy.
You've just been demolished on the numbers.
And good to see that you're now admitting that British people who move to Spain boost the Spanish economy.
It's telling that some pb tories will even attempt a half-hearted, limp dicked defence of the Fireplace Salesman but none will ever go into bat for Grayteeth.
Im not defending Gavin Williamson, but it is utterly cu**ish to deride him as a “fireplace salesman”. It seems he had a not unsuccessful career as a MD of a pottery company and a fireplace manufacturer.
But you know all this, as it was discussed yesterday. Yet again you deride him.
Tbh if that's your benchmark for utter cnutishness, you've kind of used up your ultimate deterrent on a bush war.
The people mocking him for being an ex-Fireplace salesman are mocking the millions of people who work in sales while they’re at it. It isn’t a defence of Williamson to notice that.
As someone who has previously done sales I can live with it TBH, doesn't feel like it's aimed at me.
Listening to that idiot woman chuntering on on the Today programme put me in a filthy mood. She keeps talking about a negotiation which stopped last November. How thick must she be not to realise that?
The fact that Juncker et al are too polite to shut the door in May’s face when she turns up bleating piteously for something she won’t get does not mean there is a negotiation going on.
Leadsom, as an ex-HR person, reminds me of the many infuriatingly stupid HR persons I have had to deal with during my working life. No wonder HR stands for Human Remains.
Grrrr.....!!!!
But the fact that the Tories are ahead in the polls shows that in the stupidity contest between the politicians and the people, the people are winning!
For peoples vote types, the best option now is probably to agree to May's deal, purely because it ensures a juicy 2 year extendable transition period where we have officially left the EU but still remain so closely aligned as to either call the whole thing off in a year or so, extend the transition further while we "cross the t's and dot the i's" on whatever future agreement takes place. A second referendum would be much easier from a democratic point of view if you can say "well, we left the EU, we are no longer members, so the mandate of the first referendum has been implemented and we can move on".
Listening to that idiot woman chuntering on on the Today programme put me in a filthy mood. She keeps talking about a negotiation which stopped last November. How thick must she be not to realise that?
The fact that Juncker et al are too polite to shut the door in May’s face when she turns up bleating piteously for something she won’t get does not mean there is a negotiation going on.
Leadsom, as an ex-HR person, reminds me of the many infuriatingly stupid HR persons I have had to deal with during my working life. No wonder HR stands for Human Remains.
Grrrr.....!!!!
Turn the radio off, step away from the keyboard. You can do nothing now. Let it wash over you. Wait.
I find it best to accept no deal is happening, no more worries about whether it will happen. Obviously nothing is certain though.
Quite. The lunatics are in charge. They are on an ideological crusade. They don’t want compromise and come up with something acceptable to non believers. They want their Brexit (whatever that means this week) no matter the cost.
So we wait.
What I’m waiting for is the time when I can take my revenge on these lunatics.
It's telling that some pb tories will even attempt a half-hearted, limp dicked defence of the Fireplace Salesman but none will ever go into bat for Grayteeth.
Im not defending Gavin Williamson, but it is utterly cu**ish to deride him as a “fireplace salesman”. It seems he had a not unsuccessful career as a MD of a pottery company and a fireplace manufacturer.
But you know all this, as it was discussed yesterday. Yet again you deride him.
Tbh if that's your benchmark for utter cnutishness, you've kind of used up your ultimate deterrent on a bush war.
The people mocking him for being an ex-Fireplace salesman are mocking the millions of people who work in sales while they’re at it. It isn’t a defence of Williamson to notice that.
But notme2 is defending Williamson, particularly on the point that he was not just a “fireplace salesman" but also had a 'not unsuccessful career as a MD of a pottery company and a fireplace manufacturer'. You should probably ask him what he thinks is wrong with just being a fireplace salesman.
Back to the 16-1700's when merchantmen were converted to fighting ships and back again. All part of the Grand Tory Plan.
I thought the whole point was we don't have enough ferries anyway. If so, how are we supposed to spare any to convert to other uses. (Ignoring the fact it is utterly impractical I would have thought)
If we're buying the ferries it doesn't matter that they're currently registered abroad, which would be a problem as it means they aren't available to be requisitioned for war use as happened in the Falkland's War.
Does the article say what they will be converted to do?
I think the plan is to use them as the two Royal Marine base/support ships called Littoral Strike ships. One is to be based permanently in the Pacific as I understand it.
A guaranteed income of €32k a year is worth more than €500k...
Southam said that you’d need to buy €500k of property and that only rich brits will be able to retire to Spain. That’s not true - you can get a long term residency visa without buying the property and proving €32k per year annual income. So it’s more affordable than he’s making out.
Plus, as I say, you could always travel to Spain 90 days out of every 180 anyway. I’m not saying retiring to Spain is as easy as it is before Brexit, but it’s not totally unattainable.
Schrodinger's Brexit: we open the box on March 30, No Deal. I'm 95% sure of this.
So what happens next?
A lot of things will swing into action very quickly just to allow modern life to function. Yes, there will be queues at the borders, some headless chickens on the financial markets, a few of the nutters hosting spam fritter parties (or whatever) but - outside political and media bubbles - most people will simply have to roll their sleeves up and get on with their lives.
My thoughts are:
- some big, luminous agreement on settled status to kick in immediately so the 3 million EU citizens can get on with their lives (and more importantly, remove them from purgatory of not knowing what happens). - pragmatic solutions kick in at the border. It's amazing how many rules you can overlook just to wave the trucks through (to anyone looking to get anything/anyone into the country, now's your chance!) - snap election to lance the HoC boil?
But it's a genuine question. What immediate, pragmatic things do you think will happen to allow us to continue to function? Our politicians are probably not thinking about this - so websites like this should...
if theres no deal things will happen a fortnight before 30 March because they have to.
Some things have happened already, haven't they? And some are in the process of happening. Others won't happen until Brexitday and others still won't happen for some time to come.
I imagine that some of the more serious stuff won't happen for a bit - like further reduction in our credit rating - and a lot of it will too abstract to attribute unequivocally to Brexit - like loss of international credibility and support.
It's always difficult to attribute events to a single cause, because they are rarely monocausal. The Nissan decision is a good example. You cannot say it was just because of Brexit. All you can do is assess that it didn't help.
no places like Morrocco or Florida or Turkey. Thats assuming they have a problem in the first place, all those people with dual nationality will just continue with business as normal. And eventually places in the Med will want their investors back some resorts are stuffed full of Russians who seem to have no problem.
They are not full of Russians who have very little money. FoM in the EU27 will now only apply to those few that can afford it.
and brits who dont have much money arent there either, all youre saying is the beter off can afford to go places.
Nonsense. The Costas are home to large numbe ending freedom of movement didn’t only apply to foreigners.
so your view is the Spanish government will remove a major source of income just to keep Brussels happy.
than before.
so in effect there will be some inconvenience but money is money and things will continue
so whats all the doom mongering about ?
I am not doom-mongeribg, merely observing that only rich Brits wil insurance you’ll be fine.
No its just wild conjecture the spanish government basically is who we should listen to
You could see no reason why the Irish border would be an issue. If it were down to businesses it wouldn’t be.
the Irish border shouldnt be an issuegeous
He is overwhelmingly backed by Irish voters. But putting that to one side, do you think Spanish politicians are going to reap big electoral rewards by proposing to make it easier to immigrate to Spain?
of course not, I very much doubt its an election winning issue in Spain, the domestic agenda on the other hand is. But like all secondary issues if its worth doing it will get done, we;d do the same in reverse if it was in our interest.
For peoples vote types, the best option now is probably to agree to May's deal, purely because it ensures a juicy 2 year extendable transition period where we have officially left the EU but still remain so closely aligned as to either call the whole thing off in a year or so, extend the transition further while we "cross the t's and dot the i's" on whatever future agreement takes place. A second referendum would be much easier from a democratic point of view if you can say "well, we left the EU, we are no longer members, so the mandate of the first referendum has been implemented and we can move on".
no places like Morrocco or Florida or Turkey. Thats assuming they have a problem in the first place, all those people with dual nationality will just continue with business as normal. And eventually places in the Med will want their investors back some resorts are stuffed full of Russians who seem to have no problem.
They are not full of Russians who have very little money. FoM in the EU27 will now only apply to those few that can afford it.
and brits who dont have much money arent there either, all youre saying is the beter off can afford to go places.
Nonsense. The Costas are home to large numbers of Brits on very average incomes and of very average means. For the last 40 years living, working and retiring to the sun have been attainable dreams for millions. That is about to end. That may not bother you, but it will bother plenty of other Leave voters who never realised ending freedom of movement didn’t only apply to foreigners.
Those people are probably in the top 25% of wealth among the EU population and richer than 90% of those who migrate to the UK from the rest of the EU.
So what? They still lose their FoM.
And as you've agreed before people with wealth find it easier to migrate.
Now perhaps Spain will want to damage their economy by stopping the migration of people who can afford to buy property and who will be spending money in the local shops and bars.
Or perhaps they'll let you down and continue to encourage migration of affluent British people.
Yep, if you have €500,000 to spend on a property and can afford health insurance you’ll be allowed in, no problem.
We have taken the decision to damage our economy. I am not sure why you think Spain would change its immigration laws to prevent potential damage to its economy.
You've just been demolished on the numbers.
And good to see that you're now admitting that British people who move to Spain boost the Spanish economy.
Listening to that idiot woman chuntering on on the Today programme put me in a filthy mood. She keeps talking about a negotiation which stopped last November. How thick must she be not to realise that?
The fact that Juncker et al are too polite to shut the door in May’s face when she turns up bleating piteously for something she won’t get does not mean there is a negotiation going on.
Leadsom, as an ex-HR person, reminds me of the many infuriatingly stupid HR persons I have had to deal with during my working life. No wonder HR stands for Human Remains.
Grrrr.....!!!!
Turn the radio off, step away from the keyboard. You can do nothing now. Let it wash over you. Wait.
I find it best to accept no deal is happening, no more worries about whether it will happen. Obviously nothing is certain though.
Quite. The lunatics are in charge. They are on an ideological crusade. They don’t want compromise and come up with something acceptable to non believers. They want their Brexit (whatever that means this week) no matter the cost.
So we wait.
What I’m waiting for is the time when I can take my revenge on these lunatics.
May will go and a new fresh leader will come in for the Conservatives washing away any previous sins.
It's telling that some pb tories will even attempt a half-hearted, limp dicked defence of the Fireplace Salesman but none will ever go into bat for Grayteeth.
Im not defending Gavin Williamson, but it is utterly cu**ish to deride him as a “fireplace salesman”. It seems he had a not unsuccessful career as a MD of a pottery company and a fireplace manufacturer.
But you know all this, as it was discussed yesterday. Yet again you deride him.
Tbh if that's your benchmark for utter cnutishness, you've kind of used up your ultimate deterrent on a bush war.
The people mocking him for being an ex-Fireplace salesman are mocking the millions of people who work in sales while they’re at it. It isn’t a defence of Williamson to notice that.
But notme2 is defending Williamson, particularly on the point that he was not just a “fireplace salesman" but also had a 'not unsuccessful career as a MD of a pottery company and a fireplace manufacturer'. You should probably ask him what he thinks is wrong with just being a fireplace salesman.
That’s true. I’m not taking sides in your argument, just making my point.
Britain’s government is being sued by the channel tunnel operator Eurotunnel over the no-deal Brexit ferries contract.
Eurotunnel said the government’s decision to award firms a contract to charter ferries in the event of a no-deal Brexit, including one that has no ships, was led by a “secretive and flawed procurement process.”
Schrodinger's Brexit: we open the box on March 30, No Deal. I'm 95% sure of this.
So what happens next?
A lot of things will swing into action very quickly just to allow modern life to function. Yes, there will be queues at the borders, some headless chickens on the financial markets, a few of the nutters hosting spam fritter parties (or whatever) but - outside political and media bubbles - most people will simply have to roll their sleeves up and get on with their lives.
My thoughts are:
- some big, luminous agreement on settled status to kick in immediately so the 3 million EU citizens can get on with their lives (and more importantly, remove them from purgatory of not knowing what happens). - pragmatic solutions kick in at the border. It's amazing how many rules you can overlook just to wave the trucks through (to anyone looking to get anything/anyone into the country, now's your chance!) - snap election to lance the HoC boil?
But it's a genuine question. What immediate, pragmatic things do you think will happen to allow us to continue to function? Our politicians are probably not thinking about this - so websites like this should...
if theres no deal things will happen a fortnight before 30 March because they have to.
Some things have happened already, haven't they? And some are in the process of happening. Others won't happen until Brexitday and others still won't happen for some time to come.
I imagine that some of the more serious stuff won't happen for a bit - like further reduction in our credit rating - and a lot of it will too abstract to attribute unequivocally to Brexit - like loss of international credibility and support.
It's always difficult to attribute events to a single cause, because they are rarely monocausal. The Nissan decision is a good example. You cannot say it was just because of Brexit. All you can do is assess that it didn't help.
Listening to that idiot woman chuntering on on the Today programme put me in a filthy mood. She keeps talking about a negotiation which stopped last November. How thick must she be not to realise that?
The fact that Juncker et al are too polite to shut the door in May’s face when she turns up bleating piteously for something she won’t get does not mean there is a negotiation going on.
Leadsom, as an ex-HR person, reminds me of the many infuriatingly stupid HR persons I have had to deal with during my working life. No wonder HR stands for Human Remains.
Grrrr.....!!!!
Turn the radio off, step away from the keyboard. You can do nothing now. Let it wash over you. Wait.
I find it best to accept no deal is happening, no more worries about whether it will happen. Obviously nothing is certain though.
Quite. The lunatics are in charge. They are on an ideological crusade. They don’t want compromise and come up with something acceptable to non believers. They want their Brexit (whatever that means this week) no matter the cost.
So we wait.
What I’m waiting for is the time when I can take my revenge on these lunatics.
And revenge is a dish best served cold, time is the greatest lever, etc., etc. I'm using the next few months to use Brexit as a great motivator to finally (after many years of saying I'll do it) start growing vegetables in my miniscule back garden...
no places like Morrocco or Florida or Turkey. Thats assuming they have a problem in the first place, all those people with dual nationality will just continue with business as normal. And eventually places in the Med will want their investors back some resorts are stuffed full of Russians who seem to have no problem.
They are not full of Russians who have very little money. FoM in the EU27 will now only apply to those few that can afford it.
and brits who dont have much money arent there either, all youre saying is the beter off can afford to go places.
Nonsense. The Costas are home to large numbe ending freedom of movement didn’t only apply to foreigners.
so your view is the Spanish government will remove a major source of income just to keep Brussels happy.
than before.
so in effect there will be some inconvenience but money is money and things will continue
so whats all the doom mongering about ?
I am not doom-mongeribg, merely observing that only rich Brits wil insurance you’ll be fine.
No its just wild conjecture the spanish government basically is who we should listen to
You could see no reason why the Irish border would be an issue. If it were down to businesses it wouldn’t be.
the Irish border shouldnt be an issuegeous
He is overwhelmingly backed by Irish voters. But putting that to one side, do you think Spanish politicians are going to reap big electoral rewards by proposing to make it easier to immigrate to Spain?
of course not, I very much doubt its an election winning issue in Spain, the domestic agenda on the other hand is. But like all secondary issues if its worth doing it will get done, we;d do the same in reverse if it was in our interest.
A bizarre mentality. Those who wish to restrict the rights of their fellow human being to live and work freely across our beautiful continent. What a miserable ethos.
A guaranteed income of €32k a year is worth more than €500k...
Southam said that you’d need to buy €500k of property and that only rich brits will be able to retire to Spain. That’s not true - you can get a long term residency visa without buying the property and proving €32k per year annual income. So it’s more affordable than he’s making out.
Plus, as I say, you could always travel to Spain 90 days out of every 180 anyway. I’m not saying retiring to Spain is as easy as it is before Brexit, but it’s not totally unattainable.
Do you know how big a pension pit would need to be to produce a gusranteed income of €32,000 a year?
It's telling that some pb tories will even attempt a half-hearted, limp dicked defence of the Fireplace Salesman but none will ever go into bat for Grayteeth.
Im not defending Gavin Williamson, but it is utterly cu**ish to deride him as a “fireplace salesman”. It seems he had a not unsuccessful career as a MD of a pottery company and a fireplace manufacturer.
But you know all this, as it was discussed yesterday. Yet again you deride him.
Tbh if that's your benchmark for utter cnutishness, you've kind of used up your ultimate deterrent on a bush war.
The people mocking him for being an ex-Fireplace salesman are mocking the millions of people who work in sales while they’re at it. It isn’t a defence of Williamson to notice that.
As someone who has previously done sales I can live with it TBH, doesn't feel like it's aimed at me.
It kind of is though, other upperty oiks. It seems he thinks that people who aren’t part of the professions have any part to play in our democratic process. What he is saying is that Gavin Williamson is ‘trade’, and couldn’t possibly be allowed access to the higher echelons of British society, the fact that he has managed to get there is a disgrace.
Gavin Williamson seems a bit ridiculous on many levels, but him been a former MD of a fireplace company is not one of them.
Schrodinger's Brexit: we open the box on March 30, No Deal. I'm 95% sure of this.
So what happens next?
A lot of things will swing into action very quickly just to allow modern life to function. Yes, there will be queues at the borders, some headless chickens on the financial markets, a few of the nutters hosting spam fritter parties (or whatever) but - outside political and media bubbles - most people will simply have to roll their sleeves up and get on with their lives.
My thoughts are:
- some big, luminous agreement on settled status to kick in immediately so the 3 million EU citizens can get on with their lives (and more importantly, remove them from purgatory of not knowing what happens). - pragmatic solutions kick in at the border. It's amazing how many rules you can overlook just to wave the trucks through (to anyone looking to get anything/anyone into the country, now's your chance!) - snap election to lance the HoC boil?
But it's a genuine question. What immediate, pragmatic things do you think will happen to allow us to continue to function? Our politicians are probably not thinking about this - so websites like this should...
if theres no deal things will happen a fortnight before 30 March because they have to.
Not if the meaningful vote happens on March 21. Plenty of people will wait to see if May can get her dead deal through once more. I'm more interested in knowing what the ordinary Joes and Janes on the front lines will have to do to make daily life work...
Britain’s government is being sued by the channel tunnel operator Eurotunnel over the no-deal Brexit ferries contract.
Eurotunnel said the government’s decision to award firms a contract to charter ferries in the event of a no-deal Brexit, including one that has no ships, was led by a “secretive and flawed procurement process.”
Exactly! Eurotunnel would like the opportunity to bid on a ferry contract too. They had mistakenly assumed you had to be a ferry operator with ferries to be a spot hire operator of ferry services, but now that you don't they think they have been denied the opportunity...
Comments
When you leave those clubs, your payments increase ...
I don’t know any who’ve retired to the Costas, except felix. I do know a number who have second homes in France.
Personally, neither are my cup of tea. But I suspect the most likely outcome is that France and Spain tweak their residency laws.
He also isn’t particularly well liked on a personal level. He’s still there because he backed TM as PM from the get-go, is a Brexiteer and it’s a hung parliament.
Revoke and Remain: Civil unrest - literal riots as large protest marches turn nasty. Leavers talk about the need to remove the democratic vote from charlatan politicians
Norway+: Millions of people indignant that having left the EU we haven't left the EU
May's Deal: same as Norway Plus. People have no idea what "leave" or "European Union" meant
No deal: Remainers talk about the need to remove the democratic vote from idiot voters. Millions of leavers indignant that "Project Fear" turned out to be the verifiable facts they insisted they weren't .
Politically both big parties are fucked. Both with split even if it's not a formal break. Fun times...
https://www.politico.eu/article/spanish-pm-sanchez-brits-rights-wont-change-after-brexit/
I have no prior knowledge but Id guess we will end up with an arrangement similar to Norway or Switzerland where people still go to Spain
When you describe "Project fear" I assume you mean the detailed factual descriptions of how business, logistics, customs, trade deals etc etc actually work? Osborne bleating about crashes - that was project fear. Nissan cancelling planned investment in Sunderland, that's just reality
The fact that Juncker et al are too polite to shut the door in May’s face when she turns up bleating piteously for something she won’t get does not mean there is a negotiation going on.
Leadsom, as an ex-HR person, reminds me of the many infuriatingly stupid HR persons I have had to deal with during my working life. No wonder HR stands for Human Remains.
Grrrr.....!!!!
it will only count if you have worked more than half the year in another country. Then their taxman will be after you.
Following a review of parliamentary representation in Devon by the Boundary Commission for England, which has increased the number of seats in the county from 11 to 12, East Devon was subject to significant boundary changes at the 2010 general election.[2] In particular, the towns of Axminster and Seaton were transferred to the Tiverton and Honiton constituency. Also, two wards from the City of Exeter are now part of the East Devon seat.
Also, note the number of voters in the two seats:
2001
East Devon - 69,530
Tiverton and Honiton - 80,612
2017
East Devon - 82,377
Tiverton and Honiton - 80,860
My guess is that the increase in population in East Devon hasn't necessarily been to the Tories' advantage.
But you know all this, as it was discussed yesterday. Yet again you deride him.
What we should have done about last July was have the EU agree to move the Article 50 deadline from March 29th 2019 to August 15th 2018. And tell MPs that if they hadn't agreed an alternative by then, the Meaningful Vote would be August 14th. So scrub those holiday plans.....
Then, as now, the one minute to midnight vote will come down to a choice between May's Shit Deal and No Deal.
Dreamainers - do you want No Deal Brexit on your conscience? Because that is what your fannying around has kept on life support for all these months. Make the leap - accept we are leaving. Then work out which hurts your constituents least.
Back to the 16-1700's when merchantmen were converted to fighting ships and back again. All part of the Grand Tory Plan.
50/50?
The more you pay the harder the Brexit experience you get. Members of the hard Brexit club get to opt out of services and NHS treatment provided by EU nationals, they get to choose from a wealth of global produce. They can buy all the Chlorinated Chicken they want. They get to wait in their own special queues at airports. There is a free bendy banana with each membership.
Meanwhile the rest of us can get on with life.
So what happens next?
A lot of things will swing into action very quickly just to allow modern life to function. Yes, there will be queues at the borders, some headless chickens on the financial markets, a few of the nutters hosting spam fritter parties (or whatever) but - outside political and media bubbles - most people will simply have to roll their sleeves up and get on with their lives.
My thoughts are:
- some big, luminous agreement on settled status to kick in immediately so the 3 million EU citizens can get on with their lives (and more importantly, remove them from purgatory of not knowing what happens).
- pragmatic solutions kick in at the border. It's amazing how many rules you can overlook just to wave the trucks through (to anyone looking to get anything/anyone into the country, now's your chance!)
- snap election to lance the HoC boil?
But it's a genuine question. What immediate, pragmatic things do you think will happen to allow us to continue to function? Our politicians are probably not thinking about this - so websites like this should...
Ooh, and 1000 posts! Hooray!
Now perhaps Spain will want to damage their economy by stopping the migration of people who can afford to buy property and who will be spending money in the local shops and bars.
Or perhaps they'll let you down and continue to encourage migration of affluent British people.
We have a very regulated society with fines if you ignore them.
And if you can’t afford the €32k, you can still spend 90 days out of 180 in Spain on a tourist visa anyway. So Brexit probably won’t make too much difference.
So we wait.
We have taken the decision to damage our economy. I am not sure why you think Spain would change its immigration laws to prevent potential damage to its economy.
Firstly, are you not worried that she might be Ed Miliband?
Secondly, don't the Dems need someone who can energise at least 2 out of the 3 of minority voters, moderates and the Left?
what wasnt much of an issue about a year back has now become one of national pride. SF and FF have boxed him in on the issue so he has little wiggle room which is mad as thats what you need in an EU negotiation.
On the domestic front he;s getting hammered by a huge cost overrun of a hosptial in Dublin which is damaging his credentials on sound finance and has been put on the backfoot by a nurses strike.
On Brexit the financial impact is just as confused as it is in the UK but the politics is such that whatever goes wrong he owns it.
Currently he is kept in power by by FF , theyre sitting back letting him accumulate mistakes and then theyll pull the plug. His best electoral chances were about 6 months ago
Does the article say what they will be converted to do?
And good to see that you're now admitting that British people who move to Spain boost the Spanish economy.
Plus, as I say, you could always travel to Spain 90 days out of every 180 anyway. I’m not saying retiring to Spain is as easy as it is before Brexit, but it’s not totally unattainable.
Punter: Shall I buy this fireplace?
DA: I don't know. I don't give a fuck.
I imagine that some of the more serious stuff won't happen for a bit - like further reduction in our credit rating - and a lot of it will too abstract to attribute unequivocally to Brexit - like loss of international credibility and support.
It's always difficult to attribute events to a single cause, because they are rarely monocausal. The Nissan decision is a good example. You cannot say it was just because of Brexit. All you can do is assess that it didn't help.
http://www.abadabogados.com/en/residency-in-spain-for-non-eu-members/
Yes, bilateral immigration is a net benefit for Spain and the UK
Eurotunnel said the government’s decision to award firms a contract to charter ferries in the event of a no-deal Brexit, including one that has no ships, was led by a “secretive and flawed procurement process.”
Gavin Williamson seems a bit ridiculous on many levels, but him been a former MD of a fireplace company is not one of them.
https://residencies.io/residency/spain/temporary-residency/es6