The right way for potential PMs to eat a bacon roll, perhaps? Remember those innocent days?
Are there Conservatives who admit they'd actually feel better if EdM and EdB were running things, rather than TM and PH (not to forget Andrea Jenkyn, of course), even if EdM was a sloppy eater and EdB was a bit fat?
That's a slightly odd question, because it's hard to see any world in which EdM and EdB would be attempting to implement Brexit in a hung parliament dependent on the ERG and DUP for support.
But if you mean 'would a normal, sane government under any of the leading pre-Corbyn Labour politicians be preferable to a no-deal crash-out followed very probably by a Corbyn government?', then, yes, of course it would be massively preferable.
A Tory No Deal Brexit is the one scenario under which Jeremy Corbyn has a realistic chance of becoming PM. Which, of course, is why he wants one.
Actually Corbyn's best chance of becoming PM is if the Tories revoke Brexit given most polls show a majority of Tory voters prefer No Deal to Remain and it would see mass defections of Tory Leave voters to UKIP or Farage's new party enabling Corbyn to pick up scores of seats on a split right-wing vote.
No Deal is worse for the Tories longer term than a Deal given the greater threat to the economy and the Union but revoking Brexit could see not only Corbyn become PM but the Tories fall to third place and cease to be even the main opposition party
A threat to the Union is no threat to the Tories. 2017 England got a landslide Tory majority. 2017 Britain had an overall Tory majority.
The right way for potential PMs to eat a bacon roll, perhaps? Remember those innocent days?
Are there Conservatives who admit they'd actually feel better if EdM and EdB were running things, rather than TM and PH (not to forget Andrea Jenkyn, of course), even if EdM was a sloppy eater and EdB was a bit fat?
That's a slightly odd question, because it's hard to see any world in which EdM and EdB would be attempting to implement Brexit in a hung parliament dependent on the ERG and DUP for support.
But if you mean 'would a normal, sane government under any of the leading pre-Corbyn Labour politicians be preferable to a no-deal crash-out followed very probably by a Corbyn government?', then, yes, of course it would be massively preferable.
A Tory No Deal Brexit is the one scenario under which Jeremy Corbyn has a realistic chance of becoming PM. Which, of course, is why he wants one.
Actually Corbyn's best chance of becoming PM is if the Tories revoke Brexit given most polls show a majority of Tory voters prefer No Deal to Remain and it would see mass defections of Tory Leave voters to UKIP or Farage's new party enabling Corbyn to pick up scores of seats on a split right-wing vote.
No Deal is worse for the Tories longer term than a Deal given the greater threat to the economy and the Union but revoking Brexit could see not only Corbyn become PM but the Tories fall to third place and cease to be even the main opposition party
A threat to the Union is no threat to the Tories. 2017 England got a landslide Tory majority. 2017 Britain had an overall Tory majority.
You don’t think there would be a political rebalancing then, if England became independent?
The right way for potential PMs to eat a bacon roll, perhaps? Remember those innocent days?
Are there Conservatives who admit they'd actually feel better if EdM and EdB were running things, rather than TM and PH (not to forget Andrea Jenkyn, of course), even if EdM was a sloppy eater and EdB was a bit fat?
That's a slightly odd question, because it's hard to see any world in which EdM and EdB would be attempting to implement Brexit in a hung parliament dependent on the ERG and DUP for support.
But if you mean 'would a normal, sane government under any of the leading pre-Corbyn Labour politicians be preferable to a no-deal crash-out followed very probably by a Corbyn government?', then, yes, of course it would be massively preferable.
A Tory No Deal Brexit is the one scenario under which Jeremy Corbyn has a realistic chance of becoming PM. Which, of course, is why he wants one.
Actually Corbyn's best chance of becoming PM is if the Tories revoke Brexit given most polls show a majority of Tory voters prefer No Deal to Remain and it would see mass defections of Tory Leave voters to UKIP or Farage's new party enabling Corbyn to pick up scores of seats on a split right-wing vote.
No Deal is worse for the Tories longer term than a Deal given the greater threat to the economy and the Union but revoking Brexit could see not only Corbyn become PM but the Tories fall to third place and cease to be even the main opposition party
Did you enjoy your visit to Israel and Palestine. We did it some years ago and it was fascinating with so much to see and to try to understand
Who said the UK wanted a UK-wide one? This is a terrible interpretation of statehood that makes Theresa May out to be some kind of Louis XIV figure. L'etat c'est moi
Theresa May was open to a UK wide backstop, the UK never voted for a UK-wide backstop. Parliament never endorsed it. MPs from across Parliament expressed opposition to it long before it was agreed.
Because if you are a rule taker those rules protect you too. The UK gains more with 27 countries being bound to the UK on the rules against having to follow the rules itself. Those rules protect the UK even if it has no say over drafting them and they didn't take UK interests into account when drafting them. With a high probability we are heading eventually to the Vassal State. Problem is, this means less democratic accountability, not more. Mrs May's issues, the fact three Leaver Brexit have resigned in frustration and MPs can't decide what to do, all stem from this contradiction.
Mrs May's issues do, because she's not reconciled herself to Leaving properly.
You're right that a vassal state leaves us worse off. That's why I oppose the backstop so vehemently.
I'm OK with Remaining. I'm OK with Leaving. I am not OK with Leaving but being a vassal.
"Leaving properly" is a slogan, not a policy. I agree we're not ready yet to face up honestly to the implications of Brexit. But if we benefit from the rules, and we do for the reasons I have just given, we are highly likely to go Vassal State eventually. You can only hunt unicorns for so long, because actually they don't exist. We are still hunting the unicorns.
And edit, my interest in Brexit is whether Leavers will ultimately accept the Vassal State, as being better than not leaving at all. I suspect they will because they don't in general seem interested in the exercise of sovereignty and making the necessary trade offs, which is what sovereignty means. That's more a Remainer thing. Leavers seem in general to view sovereignty in symbolic terms. If so, Philip, you would be an exception to this generalisation.
Maybe.
To me take back control was not a slogan. It is what I voted for.
If we give up control to gain Brexit then I don't want it. May's deal is worse than remaining.
But I'm unusual in not being afraid of either remaining or leaving. I was torn in the referendum and think we will be fine either way.
That's good. Thing is, we will probably end up Brexiting eventually to the being the rule taker, which you said you don't want
The right way for potential PMs to eat a bacon roll, perhaps? Remember those innocent days?
Are there Conservatives who admit they'd actually feel better if EdM and EdB were running things, rather than TM and PH (not to forget Andrea Jenkyn, of course), even if EdM was a sloppy eater and EdB was a bit fat?
That's a slightly odd question, because it's hard to see any world in which EdM and EdB would be attempting to implement Brexit in a hung parliament dependent on the ERG and DUP for support.
But if you mean 'would a normal, sane government under any of the leading pre-Corbyn Labour politicians be preferable to a no-deal crash-out followed very probably by a Corbyn government?', then, yes, of course it would be massively preferable.
A Tory No Deal Brexit is the one scenario under which Jeremy Corbyn has a realistic chance of becoming PM. Which, of course, is why he wants one.
Actually Corbyn's best chance of becoming PM is if the Tories revoke Brexit given most polls show a majority of Tory voters prefer No Deal to Remain and it would see mass defections of Tory Leave voters to UKIP or Farage's new party enabling Corbyn to pick up scores of seats on a split right-wing vote.
No Deal is worse for the Tories longer term than a Deal given the greater threat to the economy and the Union but revoking Brexit could see not only Corbyn become PM but the Tories fall to third place and cease to be even the main opposition party
A threat to the Union is no threat to the Tories. 2017 England got a landslide Tory majority. 2017 Britain had an overall Tory majority.
It's a fatal threat to a key, possibly the key, Tory tenet of unionism though.
What's the point of being in power if you obtain power by destroying your raison d'être?
Well, I did write this specific paragraph about Brexit, in the Spectator, back in the Autumn of 2016
"There will be blood. Brexit is going to be painful, like childbirth. It just is. The Leave quacks who promised a brisk and blissful delivery don’t have enough diamorphine to dull the nerves. We might need epidurals from the Treasury. We will swear a lot, and not care. It might be rather embarrassing – think public enemas – but again, we probably won’t care, because we’ll be concentrating on the pain. Other countries will look at us and think “Jesus, I’m never going through that”. Immediately after Brexit, we will likely appear reduced, saggy, wrinkled. "
For the nth time, weren’t they like that because Cameron had just resigned?
People always say that as if he died. Politicians who dream of being Prime Minister their whole careers don't normally become sombre the moment the opportunity presents itself, unless they realise it's a poisoned chalice.
And people about to start the biggest job interview of their lives don't tend to want to start off by appearing too smug about the end of the career of the man they want to replace.
The right way for potential PMs to eat a bacon roll, perhaps? Remember those innocent days?
Are there Conservatives who admit they'd actually feel better if EdM and EdB were running things, rather than TM and PH (not to forget Andrea Jenkyn, of course), even if EdM was a sloppy eater and EdB was a bit fat?
That's a slightly odd question, because it's hard to see any world in which EdM and EdB would be attempting to implement Brexit in a hung parliament dependent on the ERG and DUP for support.
But if you mean 'would a normal, sane government under any of the leading pre-Corbyn Labour politicians be preferable to a no-deal crash-out followed very probably by a Corbyn government?', then, yes, of course it would be massively preferable.
A Tory No Deal Brexit is the one scenario under which Jeremy Corbyn has a realistic chance of becoming PM. Which, of course, is why he wants one.
Actually Corbyn's best chance of becoming PM is if the Tories revoke Brexit given most polls show a majority of Tory voters prefer No Deal to Remain and it would see mass defections of Tory Leave voters to UKIP or Farage's new party enabling Corbyn to pick up scores of seats on a split right-wing vote.
No Deal is worse for the Tories longer term than a Deal given the greater threat to the economy and the Union but revoking Brexit could see not only Corbyn become PM but the Tories fall to third place and cease to be even the main opposition party
A threat to the Union is no threat to the Tories. 2017 England got a landslide Tory majority. 2017 Britain had an overall Tory majority.
You don’t think there would be a political rebalancing then, if England became independent?
Andrew Lilico (yes I know...) thought in 2014 that had Scotland voted for independence, the English right would have to become European because the project of "forming an alliance of Britons across the world" would be over.
And if the Conservative Party were no more, with no more Britain and no more Britons, and no more hope of resurrecting a Whiggish constitution or forming an alliance of Britons across the world, why should we not seek a pan-European centre-right political identity instead?
Fortunately all the above is currently just morbid reflection on what might be if all goes badly. Let us hope – fervently – that the Scots independence vote goes the right way and we need never reflect upon these sorrows again.
This is also why, whatever outcome we get, deal, no deal or remain, the national Brexit fracture will not be healed for some cnsiderable time.
During our European car holidays with our 3 children years ago we visited Dachau and Mauthausen, and subsequently Yad Vashem, and the horrors they represented had a deep lasting effect on all my family and any comparison to brexit is utterly shameful
Ireland can't afford a hard border caused by the UK diverging from the EU, either through No Deal or by conceding on the backstop. At least it doesn't think it can afford it. Northern Ireland can afford a hardh border even less, but no-one in the mainland cares about them. My guess is that push chime to shove, Ireland would partially derogate from the Single Market in the case of No Deal. But they really, really don't see why they should, just to maintain Britain's Brexit delusions.
Point is, the backstop will never go away under any subsequent EU/UK deal.
This is also why, whatever outcome we get, deal, no deal or remain, the national Brexit fracture will not be healed for some cnsiderable time.
During our European car holidays with our 3 children years ago we visited Dachau and Mauthausen, and subsequently Yad Vashem, and the horrors they represented had a deep lasting effect on all my family and any comparison to brexit is utterly shameful
This is also why, whatever outcome we get, deal, no deal or remain, the national Brexit fracture will not be healed for some cnsiderable time.
I think if May won with her deal in the manifesto, the ERG would have to fall in line. Also if she expanded her majority, it'd probably make passing it easier
The right way for potential PMs to eat a bacon roll, perhaps? Remember those innocent days?
Are there Conservatives who admit they'd actually feel better if EdM and EdB were running things, rather than TM and PH (not to forget Andrea Jenkyn, of course), even if EdM was a sloppy eater and EdB was a bit fat?
That's a slightly odd question, because it's hard to see any world in which EdM and EdB would be attempting to implement Brexit in a hung parliament dependent on the ERG and DUP for support.
But if you mean 'would a normal, sane government under any of the leading pre-Corbyn Labour politicians be preferable to a no-deal crash-out followed very probably by a Corbyn government?', then, yes, of course it would be massively preferable.
A Tory No Deal Brexit is the one scenario under which Jeremy Corbyn has a realistic chance of becoming PM. Which, of course, is why he wants one.
Actually Corbyn's best chance of becoming PM is if the Tories revoke Brexit given most polls show a majority of Tory voters prefer No Deal to Remain and it would see mass defections of Tory Leave voters to UKIP or Farage's new party enabling Corbyn to pick up scores of seats on a split right-wing vote.
No Deal is worse for the Tories longer term than a Deal given the greater threat to the economy and the Union but revoking Brexit could see not only Corbyn become PM but the Tories fall to third place and cease to be even the main opposition party
A threat to the Union is no threat to the Tories. 2017 England got a landslide Tory majority. 2017 Britain had an overall Tory majority.
Most likely Wales would still stay though and Wales is the only country which had a Labour majority in 2017 plus while losing Scotland would make it more difficult to get a Labour PM due to the prospect of SNP support being lost it would make it easier to get a Labour overall majority
This is also why, whatever outcome we get, deal, no deal or remain, the national Brexit fracture will not be healed for some cnsiderable time.
I think if May won with her deal in the manifesto, the ERG would have to fall in line. Also if she expanded her majority, it'd probably make passing it easier
Perhaps, but that’s really irrelevant to what we’re talking about.
A May victory would be a result of the electorate judging Corbyn a useless git, not because they approve of Brexit.
The right way for potential PMs to eat a bacon roll, perhaps? Remember those innocent days?
Are there Conservatives who admit they'd actually feel better if EdM and EdB were running things, rather than TM and PH (not to forget Andrea Jenkyn, of course), even if EdM was a sloppy eater and EdB was a bit fat?
That's a slightly odd question, because it's hard to see any world in which EdM and EdB would be attempting to implement Brexit in a hung parliament dependent on the ERG and DUP for support.
But if you mean 'would a normal, sane government under any of the leading pre-Corbyn Labour politicians be preferable to a no-deal crash-out followed very probably by a Corbyn government?', then, yes, of course it would be massively preferable.
A Tory No Deal Brexit is the one scenario under which Jeremy Corbyn has a realistic chance of becoming PM. Which, of course, is why he wants one.
Actually Corbyn's best chance of becoming PM is if the Tories revoke Brexit given most polls show a majority of Tory voters prefer No Deal to Remain and it would see mass defections of Tory Leave voters to UKIP or Farage's new party enabling Corbyn to pick up scores of seats on a split right-wing vote.
No Deal is worse for the Tories longer term than a Deal given the greater threat to the economy and the Union but revoking Brexit could see not only Corbyn become PM but the Tories fall to third place and cease to be even the main opposition party
Did you enjoy your visit to Israel and Palestine. We did it some years ago and it was fascinating with so much to see and to try to understand
It is true that travel broadens the mind
Am still there until Saturday, leaving Jerusalem tomorrow and onto Galilee via Nablus.
As you no doubt discovered on your trip it is a fascinating region and full of history and of importance to the 3 religions of the book. Started off in Bethlehem and visited Hebron and Ramallah and Herod's Fortress of Masada, swam in the Dead Sea and have been staying in Jerusalem for the last few days.
I found Hebron the point where the divide between Palestinans and Jews was strongest, even the tomb of Abraham was separated between them. Masada was astonishing with spectacular views and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was a real mix of Christian traditions, especially good to visit early in the morning, the Garden Tomb near the hotel was also an interesting find which some Protestant traditions consider the actual site of Jesus' tomb
This is also why, whatever outcome we get, deal, no deal or remain, the national Brexit fracture will not be healed for some cnsiderable time.
I think if May won with her deal in the manifesto, the ERG would have to fall in line. Also if she expanded her majority, it'd probably make passing it easier
Perhaps, but that’s really irrelevant to what we’re talking about.
A May victory would be a result of the electorate judging Corbyn a useless git, not because they approve of Brexit.
The issue would persist.
What issue? For May, passing her deal _is_ success. You think she gives a toss about the 48%?
The right way for potential PMs to eat a bacon roll, perhaps? Remember those innocent days?
Are there Conservatives who admit they'd actually feel better if EdM and EdB were running things, rather than TM and PH (not to forget Andrea Jenkyn, of course), even if EdM was a sloppy eater and EdB was a bit fat?
That's a slightly odd question, because it's hard to see any world in which EdM and EdB would be attempting to implement Brexit in a hung parliament dependent on the ERG and DUP for support.
But if you mean 'would a normal, sane government under any of the leading pre-Corbyn Labour politicians be preferable to a no-deal crash-out followed very probably by a Corbyn government?', then, yes, of course it would be massively preferable.
A Tory No Deal Brexit is the one scenario under which Jeremy Corbyn has a realistic chance of becoming PM. Which, of course, is why he wants one.
Actually Corbyn's best chance of becoming PM is if the Tories revoke Brexit given most polls show a majority of Tory voters prefer No Deal to Remain and it would see mass defections of Tory Leave voters to UKIP or Farage's new party enabling Corbyn to pick up scores of seats on a split right-wing vote.
No Deal is worse for the Tories longer term than a Deal given the greater threat to the economy and the Union but revoking Brexit could see not only Corbyn become PM but the Tories fall to third place and cease to be even the main opposition party
Did you enjoy your visit to Israel and Palestine. We did it some years ago and it was fascinating with so much to see and to try to understand
It is true that travel broadens the mind
Am still there until Saturday, leaving Jerusalem tomorrow and onto Galilee via Nablus.
As you no doubt discovered on your trip it is a fascinating region and full of history and of importance to the 3 religions of the book. Started off in Bethlehem and visited Hebron and Ramallah and Herod's Fortress of Masada, swam in the Dead Sea and have been staying in Jerusalem for the last few days.
I found Hebron the point where the divide between Palestinans and Jews was strongest, even the tomb of Abraham was separated between them. Masada was astonishing with spectacular views and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was a real mix of Christian traditions, especially good to visit early in the morning, the Garden Tomb near the hotel was also an interesting find which some Protestant traditions consider the actual site of Jesus' tomb
The Galilee is stunning. Do visit Nazareth if you get the chance.
An election is an inspired move for May. Forces her opponents to support her manifesto or stand against her. An impossible choice. Labour are on an awkward position. A majority is there for the taking. It just needs a strong campaign. Oh dear.
The right way for potential PMs to eat a bacon roll, perhaps? Remember those innocent days?
Are there Conservatives who admit they'd actually feel better if EdM and EdB were running things, rather than TM and PH (not to forget Andrea Jenkyn, of course), even if EdM was a sloppy eater and EdB was a bit fat?
That's a slightly odd question, because it's hard to see any world in which EdM and EdB would be attempting to implement Brexit in a hung parliament dependent on the ERG and DUP for support.
But if you mean 'would a normal, sane government under any of the leading pre-Corbyn Labour politicians be preferable to a no-deal crash-out followed very probably by a Corbyn government?', then, yes, of course it would be massively preferable.
A Tory No Deal Brexit is the one scenario under which Jeremy Corbyn has a realistic chance of becoming PM. Which, of course, is why he wants one.
Actually Corbyn's best chance of becoming PM is if the Tories revoke Brexit given most polls show a majority of Tory voters prefer No Deal to Remain and it would see mass defections of Tory Leave voters to UKIP or Farage's new party enabling Corbyn to pick up scores of seats on a split right-wing vote.
No Deal is worse for the Tories longer term than a Deal given the greater threat to the economy and the Union but revoking Brexit could see not only Corbyn become PM but the Tories fall to third place and cease to be even the main opposition party
A threat to the Union is no threat to the Tories. 2017 England got a landslide Tory majority. 2017 Britain had an overall Tory majority.
It's a fatal threat to a key, possibly the key, Tory tenet of unionism though.
What's the point of being in power if you obtain power by destroying your raison d'être?
The key historical traits of Toryism are really support for the monarchy and the landed classes though support for the Union grew shortly after that
I've decided there's a simple solution to the never-ending backstop. Once the back-stop starts, just implement fully the plannned post-backstop border arrangements. Implement a de facto customs border where none actually exists. Nobody can complain about switching over to something that is already there.
An election is an inspired move for May. Forces her opponents to support her manifesto or stand against her. An impossible choice. Labour are on an awkward position. A majority is there for the taking. It just needs a strong campaign. Oh dear.
There's going to be a GE sooner or later and the sooner it is the better for May.
I really can't see how this government can stagger on until 2022 and if it did it would be unlikely to be in any functioning shape by then.
The right way for potential PMs to eat a bacon roll, perhaps? Remember those innocent days?
Are there Conservatives who admit they'd actually feel better if EdM and EdB were running things, rather than TM and PH (not to forget Andrea Jenkyn, of course), even if EdM was a sloppy eater and EdB was a bit fat?
That's a slightly odd question, because it's hard to see any world in which EdM and EdBrable.
A Tory No Deal Brexit is the one scenario under which Jeremy Corbyn has a realistic chance of becoming PM. Which, of course, is why he wants one.
Actually Corbyn's best chance of becoming PM is if the Tories revoke Brexit given most polls show a majority of Tory voters prefer No Deal to Remain and it would see mass defections of Tory Leave voters to UKIP or Farage's new party enabling Corbyn to pick up scores of seats on a split right-wing vote.
No Deal is worse for the Tories longer term than a Deal given the greater threat to the economy and the Union but revoking Brexit could see not only Corbyn become PM but the Tories fall to third place and cease to be even the main opposition party
Did you enjoy your visit to Israel and Palestine. We did it some years ago and it was fascinating with so much to see and to try to understand
It is true that travel broadens the mind
Am still there until Saturday, leaving Jerusalem tomorrow and onto Galilee via Nablus.
As you no doubt discovered on your trip it is a fascinating region and full of history and of importance to the 3 religions of the book. Started off in Bethlehem and visited Hebron and Ramallah and Herod's Fortress of Masada, swam in the Dead Sea and have been staying in Jerusalem for the last few days.
I found Hebron the point where the divide between Palestinans and Jews was strongest, even the tomb of Abraham was separated between them. Masada was astonishing with spectacular views and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was a real mix of Christian traditions, especially good to visit early in the morning, the Garden Tomb near the hotel was also an interesting find which some Protestant traditions consider the actual site of Jesus' tomb
The Galilee is stunning. Do visit Nazareth if you get the chance.
Due to visit Nazareth on Wednesday and glad to hear the Galilee is worth waiting for
An election is an inspired move for May. Forces her opponents to support her manifesto or stand against her. An impossible choice. Labour are on an awkward position. A majority is there for the taking. It just needs a strong campaign. Oh dear.
There's going to be a GE sooner or later and the sooner it is the better for May.
I really can't see how this government can stagger on until 2022 and if it did it would be unlikely to be in any functioning shape by then.
Who said the UK wanted a UK-wide one? This is a terrible interpretation of statehood that makes Theresa May out to be some kind of Louis XIV figure. L'etat c'est moi
Theresa May was open to a UK wide backstop, the UK never voted for a UK-wide backstop. Parliament never endorsed it. MPs from across Parliament expressed opposition to it long before it was agreed.
Because if you are a rule taker those rules protect you too. The UK gains more with 27 countries being bound to the UK on the rules against having to follow the rules itself. Those rules protect the UK even if it has no say over drafting them and they didn't take UK interests into account when drafting them. With a high probability we are heading eventually to the Vassal State. Problem is, this means less democratic accountability, not more. Mrs May's issues, the fact three Leaver Brexit have resigned in frustration and MPs can't decide what to do, all stem from this contradiction.
Mrs May's issues do, because she's not reconciled herself to Leaving properly.
You're right that a vassal state leaves us worse off. That's why I oppose the backstop so vehemently.
I'm OK with Remaining. I'm OK with Leaving. I am not OK with Leaving but being a vassal.
"Leaving properly" is a slogan, not a policy. I agree we're not ready yet to face up honestly to the implications of Brexit. But if we benefit from the rules, and we do for the reasons I have just given, we are highly likely to go Vassal State eventually. You can only hunt unicorns for so long, because actually they don't exist. We are still hunting the unicorns.
And edit, my interest in Brexit is whether Leavers will ultimately accept the Vassal State, as being better than not leaving at all. I suspect they will because they don't in general seem interested in the exercise of sovereignty and making the necessary trade offs, which is what sovereignty means. That's more a Remainer thing. Leavers seem in general to view sovereignty in symbolic terms. If so, Philip, you would be an exception to this generalisation.
Maybe.
To me take back control was not a slogan. It is what I voted for.
If we give up control to gain Brexit then I don't want it. May's deal is worse than remaining.
But I'm unusual in not being afraid of either remaining or leaving. I was torn in the referendum and think we will be fine either way.
That's good. Thing is, we will probably end up Brexiting eventually to the being the rule taker, which you said you don't want
The right way for potential PMs to eat a bacon roll, perhaps? Remember those innocent days?
Are there Conservatives who admit they'd actually feel better if EdM and EdB were running things, rather than TM and PH (not to forget Andrea Jenkyn, of course), even if EdM was a sloppy eater and EdB was a bit fat?
That's a slightly odd question
A Tory No Deal Brexit is the one scenario under which Jeremy Corbyn has a realistic chance of becoming PM. Which, of course, is why he wants one.
Actually Corbyn's best chance of becoming PM is if the Tories revoke Brexit given most polls show a majority of Tory voters prefer No Deal to Remain and it would see mass defections of Tory Leave voters to UKIP or Farage's new party enabling Corbyn to pick up scores of seats on a split right-wing vote.
No Deal is worse for the Tories longer term than a Deal given the greater threat to the economy and the Union but revoking Brexit could see not only Corbyn become PM but the Tories fall to third place and cease to be even the main opposition party
Did you enjoy your visit to Israel and Palestine. We did it some years ago and it was fascinating with so much to see and to try to understand
It is true that travel broadens the mind
Am still there until Saturday, leaving Jerusalem tomorrow and onto Galilee via Nablus.
As you no doubt discovered on your trip it is a fascinating region and full of history and of importance to the 3 religions of the book. Started off in Bethlehem and visited Hebron and Ramallah and Herod's Fortress of Masada, swam in the Dead Sea and have been staying in Jerusalem for the last few days.
I found Hebron the point where the divide between Palestinans and Jews was strongest, even the tomb of Abraham was separated between them. Masada was astonishing with spectacular views and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was a real mix of Christian traditions, especially good to visit early in the morning, the Garden Tomb near the hotel was also an interesting find which some Protestant traditions consider the actual site of Jesus' tomb
You sum it up very well.
Our highlight was when our coach, with an Auschwitz survivor tour guide, drove round the road blocks on the first day of Arafat's peace treaty into Jericho and our guide got out, went up the steps at the walls and embraced the Palestinian soldier on duty. It was highly charged and symbolic as the Arab and Jew shared a genuine moment, and our bus of international tourists broke out in spontaneous applause
Andrew Lilico (yes I know...) thought in 2014 that had Scotland voted for independence, the English right would have to become European because the project of "forming an alliance of Britons across the world" would be over.
And if the Conservative Party were no more, with no more Britain and no more Britons, and no more hope of resurrecting a Whiggish constitution or forming an alliance of Britons across the world, why should we not seek a pan-European centre-right political identity instead?
Fortunately all the above is currently just morbid reflection on what might be if all goes badly. Let us hope – fervently – that the Scots independence vote goes the right way and we need never reflect upon these sorrows again.
And he was spectacularly wrong. There is no 'alliance of Britons' across the world and never has been. There is an alliance - of varying depths and breadths - of English speaking peoples which has absolutely nothing to do with the existence of Great Britain as a state or not. We share a language and certain cultural affinities. That will either thrive or falter based on factors that are utterly divorced from whether or not Scotland and England are separate entities.
This is also why, whatever outcome we get, deal, no deal or remain, the national Brexit fracture will not be healed for some cnsiderable time.
During our European car holidays with our 3 children years ago we visited Dachau and Mauthausen, and subsequently Yad Vashem, and the horrors they represented had a deep lasting effect on all my family and any comparison to brexit is utterly shameful
Oh god, the prissy pearl-clutchers are out in force.
It was, of course, Brexiters who brought up the Holocaust and then tried to claim the higher moral ground. Shame to see you indulge in it, Big G.
This is also why, whatever outcome we get, deal, no deal or remain, the national Brexit fracture will not be healed for some cnsiderable time.
During our European car holidays with our 3 children years ago we visited Dachau and Mauthausen, and subsequently Yad Vashem, and the horrors they represented had a deep lasting effect on all my family and any comparison to brexit is utterly shameful
Oh god, the prissy pearl-clutchers are out in force.
It was, of course, Brexiters who brought up the Holocaust and then tried to claim the higher moral ground. Shame to see you indulge in it, Big G.
I have no shame in condemning anyone, and I mean anyone, who compares brexit to the Holocaust
An election is an inspired move for May. Forces her opponents to support her manifesto or stand against her. An impossible choice. Labour are on an awkward position. A majority is there for the taking. It just needs a strong campaign. Oh dear.
There's going to be a GE sooner or later and the sooner it is the better for May.
I really can't see how this government can stagger on until 2022 and if it did it would be unlikely to be in any functioning shape by then.
This is also why, whatever outcome we get, deal, no deal or remain, the national Brexit fracture will not be healed for some cnsiderable time.
During our European car holidays with our 3 children years ago we visited Dachau and Mauthausen, and subsequently Yad Vashem, and the horrors they represented had a deep lasting effect on all my family and any comparison to brexit is utterly shameful
Oh god, the prissy pearl-clutchers are out in force.
It was, of course, Brexiters who brought up the Holocaust and then tried to claim the higher moral ground. Shame to see you indulge in it, Big G.
I have no shame in condemning anyone, and I mean anyone, who compares brexit to the Holocaust
This is also why, whatever outcome we get, deal, no deal or remain, the national Brexit fracture will not be healed for some cnsiderable time.
During our European car holidays with our 3 children years ago we visited Dachau and Mauthausen, and subsequently Yad Vashem, and the horrors they represented had a deep lasting effect on all my family and any comparison to brexit is utterly shameful
Oh god, the prissy pearl-clutchers are out in force.
It was, of course, Brexiters who brought up the Holocaust and then tried to claim the higher moral ground. Shame to see you indulge in it, Big G.
You were the one who said Brexiteers should face Nuremberg-style trials. When last I checked, you were a Remainer.
Just a completely boring, unimaginative, backward mess.
A black hole.
Only if you lack vision.
I'm always confused by people saying there's no 'point' to Brexit. Brexit is not a thing, it's a lack of a thing. It's a lack of a supranational governing body, of highly questionable democratic credentials, into which we paid a great deal of money, from which we took a great deal of regulation and legislation, and within which our economy made a loss. That is the 'thing' that needs justifying, and it was found to be utterly unjustified in the referendum. The hoohah surrounding the practicalities of leaving 'queues at Dover!!!!1!' is an utterly absurd argument for staying.
This is also why, whatever outcome we get, deal, no deal or remain, the national Brexit fracture will not be healed for some cnsiderable time.
During our European car holidays with our 3 children years ago we visited Dachau and Mauthausen, and subsequently Yad Vashem, and the horrors they represented had a deep lasting effect on all my family and any comparison to brexit is utterly shameful
Oh god, the prissy pearl-clutchers are out in force.
It was, of course, Brexiters who brought up the Holocaust and then tried to claim the higher moral ground. Shame to see you indulge in it, Big G.
I have no shame in condemning anyone, and I mean anyone, who compares brexit to the Holocaust
To be fair he didn't actually do that.
He pretty much did, by invoking the Nuremberg trials.
In these benighted times, there are few British politicians who could be cited as role models for the young. But if I were asked to name one, I would, without hesitation, say Chris Grayling. For a very simple reason.
Just a completely boring, unimaginative, backward mess.
A black hole.
Only if you lack vision.
or delusion.
Well given that there is absolutely nothing you can or will do to change the outcome or the consequences I would suggest that my positive vision is a far better place to be in than your dark delusion.
This is also why, whatever outcome we get, deal, no deal or remain, the national Brexit fracture will not be healed for some cnsiderable time.
During our European car holidays with our 3 children years ago we visited Dachau and Mauthausen, and subsequently Yad Vashem, and the horrors they represented had a deep lasting effect on all my family and any comparison to brexit is utterly shameful
Oh god, the prissy pearl-clutchers are out in force.
It was, of course, Brexiters who brought up the Holocaust and then tried to claim the higher moral ground. Shame to see you indulge in it, Big G.
I have no shame in condemning anyone, and I mean anyone, who compares brexit to the Holocaust
To be fair he didn't actually do that.
He pretty much did, by invoking the Nuremberg trials.
It was a foolish comparison, for sure. But defendents at those trials faced four indictments, the Holocaust being a subset relating mostly to count three and also count four.
Just a completely boring, unimaginative, backward mess.
A black hole.
Only if you lack vision.
I'm always confused by people saying there's no 'point' to Brexit. Brexit is not a thing, it's a lack of a thing. It's a lack of a supranational governing body, of highly questionable democratic credentials, into which we paid a great deal of money, from which we took a great deal of regulation and legislation, and within which our economy made a loss. That is the 'thing' that needs justifying, and it was found to be utterly unjustified in the referendum. The hoohah surrounding the practicalities of leaving 'queues at Dover!!!!1!' is an utterly absurd argument for staying.
Just a completely boring, unimaginative, backward mess.
A black hole.
Only if you lack vision.
or delusion.
Well given that there is absolutely nothing you can or will do to change the outcome or the consequences I would suggest that my positive vision is a far better place to be in than your dark delusion.
The best place to be is prepared for what is the most likely to come to pass.
In these benighted times, there are few British politicians who could be cited as role models for the young. But if I were asked to name one, I would, without hesitation, say Chris Grayling. For a very simple reason.
This is also why, whatever outcome we get, deal, no deal or remain, the national Brexit fracture will not be healed for some cnsiderable time.
During our European car holidays with our 3 children years ago we visited Dachau and Mauthausen, and subsequently Yad Vashem, and the horrors they represented had a deep lasting effect on all my family and any comparison to brexit is utterly shameful
Oh god, the prissy pearl-clutchers are out in force.
It was, of course, Brexiters who brought up the Holocaust and then tried to claim the higher moral ground. Shame to see you indulge in it, Big G.
I have no shame in condemning anyone, and I mean anyone, who compares brexit to the Holocaust
To be fair he didn't actually do that.
He pretty much did, by invoking the Nuremberg trials.
It was a foolish comparison, for sure. But defendents at those trials faced four indictments, the Holocaust being a subset relating mostly to count three and also count four.
So you're saying that he didn't really accuse Brexiteers of genocide, just of conspiracy to murder, crimes against peace, war crimes and crimes against humanity?
I think the comparison remains a crime against perspective.
This is also why, whatever outcome we get, deal, no deal or remain, the national Brexit fracture will not be healed for some cnsiderable time.
During our European car holidays with our 3 children years ago we visited Dachau and Mauthausen, and subsequently Yad Vashem, and the horrors they represented had a deep lasting effect on all my family and any comparison to brexit is utterly shameful
Oh god, the prissy pearl-clutchers are out in force.
It was, of course, Brexiters who brought up the Holocaust and then tried to claim the higher moral ground. Shame to see you indulge in it, Big G.
‘They did it first’ is a pretty childish argument, Shame to see you resort to it, GW.
In these benighted times, there are few British politicians who could be cited as role models for the young. But if I were asked to name one, I would, without hesitation, say Chris Grayling. For a very simple reason.
Andrew Lilico (yes I know...) thought in 2014 that had Scotland voted for independence, the English right would have to become European because the project of "forming an alliance of Britons across the world" would be over.
And if the Conservative Party were no more, with no more Britain and no more Britons, and no more hope of resurrecting a Whiggish constitution or forming an alliance of Britons across the world, why should we not seek a pan-European centre-right political identity instead?
Fortunately all the above is currently just morbid reflection on what might be if all goes badly. Let us hope – fervently – that the Scots independence vote goes the right way and we need never reflect upon these sorrows again.
And he was spectacularly wrong. There is no 'alliance of Britons' across the world and never has been. There is an alliance - of varying depths and breadths - of English speaking peoples which has absolutely nothing to do with the existence of Great Britain as a state or not. We share a language and certain cultural affinities. That will either thrive or falter based on factors that are utterly divorced from whether or not Scotland and England are separate entities.
Ah, for example the good relations between Britain and Ireland that are doing so well despite Brexit?
This is also why, whatever outcome we get, deal, no deal or remain, the national Brexit fracture will not be healed for some cnsiderable time.
During our European car holidays with our 3 children years ago we visited Dachau and Mauthausen, and subsequently Yad Vashem, and the horrors they represented had a deep lasting effect on all my family and any comparison to brexit is utterly shameful
Oh god, the prissy pearl-clutchers are out in force.
It was, of course, Brexiters who brought up the Holocaust and then tried to claim the higher moral ground. Shame to see you indulge in it, Big G.
You were the one who said Brexiteers should face Nuremberg-style trials. When last I checked, you were a Remainer.
I described May (and Corbyn) as guilty of the “economic version of a war crime”, and then suggested facetiously that any subsequent trial be held in Nuneaton rather than Nuremberg.
Somehow this is construed as comparing Brexit to the Holocaust by the pearl-clutching brigade, who seek to parade their noble and pure consciences while simultaneously aiming to shut down criticism.
Gillray would have farted in their general direction.
In these benighted times, there are few British politicians who could be cited as role models for the young. But if I were asked to name one, I would, without hesitation, say Chris Grayling. For a very simple reason.
He's a very soft target. I don't think for a second he deserves the opprobrium heaped on him.
I'd probably not tire of punching him but I don't believe he's sufficiently key to the whole thing that any of his crapness actually matters in the real world. The trains would still be shit even if he wasn't there. Airily irrelevant rather than grossly incompetent.
In these benighted times, there are few British politicians who could be cited as role models for the young. But if I were asked to name one, I would, without hesitation, say Chris Grayling. For a very simple reason.
This is also why, whatever outcome we get, deal, no deal or remain, the national Brexit fracture will not be healed for some cnsiderable time.
During our European car holidays with our 3 children years ago we visited Dachau and Mauthausen, and subsequently Yad Vashem, and the horrors they represented had a deep lasting effect on all my family and any comparison to brexit is utterly shameful
Oh god, the prissy pearl-clutchers are out in force.
It was, of course, Brexiters who brought up the Holocaust and then tried to claim the higher moral ground. Shame to see you indulge in it, Big G.
I have no shame in condemning anyone, and I mean anyone, who compares brexit to the Holocaust
To be fair he didn't actually do that.
He pretty much did, by invoking the Nuremberg trials.
It was a foolish comparison, for sure. But defendents at those trials faced four indictments, the Holocaust being a subset relating mostly to count three and also count four.
So you're saying that he didn't really accuse Brexiteers of genocide, just of conspiracy to murder, crimes against peace, war crimes and crimes against humanity?
I think the comparison remains a crime against perspective.
I think your failure to understand satire and invective is a cognitive defect.
In these benighted times, there are few British politicians who could be cited as role models for the young. But if I were asked to name one, I would, without hesitation, say Chris Grayling. For a very simple reason.
He's a very soft target. I don't think for a second he deserves the opprobrium heaped on him.
I don't think it for a second either, I think it all the time.
And he's still not as useless as Laura Pidcock.
I think he has a near impossible job. As an example, it is a known fact that train drivers are overpaid, and strike at the drop of a hat. Not really Grayling's fault. But he's a convenient target.
An election for May 2nd would fit a scenario where May rams her deal through in late March and is promptly defenestrated by the DUP supporting a VONC. Not sure how or when the legislation to implement the deal gets passed though. It would require an A50 extension and the incoming government deciding to keep with the deal.
This is also why, whatever outcome we get, deal, no deal or remain, the national Brexit fracture will not be healed for some cnsiderable time.
During our European car holidays with our 3 children years ago we visited Dachau and Mauthausen, and subsequently Yad Vashem, and the horrors they represented had a deep lasting effect on all my family and any comparison to brexit is utterly shameful
Oh god, the prissy pearl-clutchers are out in force.
It was, of course, Brexiters who brought up the Holocaust and then tried to claim the higher moral ground. Shame to see you indulge in it, Big G.
I have no shame in condemning anyone, and I mean anyone, who compares brexit to the Holocaust
To be fair he didn't actually do that.
He pretty much did, by invoking the Nuremberg trials.
It was a foolish comparison, for sure. But defendents at those trials faced four indictments, the Holocaust being a subset relating mostly to count three and also count four.
So you're saying that he didn't really accuse Brexiteers of genocide, just of conspiracy to murder, crimes against peace, war crimes and crimes against humanity?
I think the comparison remains a crime against perspective.
The trials were the most notable example of political and military leaders being held accountable by an international court. But were conceived, in principle at least, before the Holocaust had happened, at the request of the Poles in 1940. As I said, it was a very foolish analogy.
This is also why, whatever outcome we get, deal, no deal or remain, the national Brexit fracture will not be healed for some cnsiderable time.
During our European car holidays with our 3 children years ago we visited Dachau and Mauthausen, and subsequently Yad Vashem, and the horrors they represented had a deep lasting effect on all my family and any comparison to brexit is utterly shameful
Oh god, the prissy pearl-clutchers are out in force.
It was, of course, Brexiters who brought up the Holocaust and then tried to claim the higher moral ground. Shame to see you indulge in it, Big G.
‘They did it first’ is a pretty childish argument, Shame to see you resort to it, GW.
You misunderstand me. I’m not claiming they did it first. I’m calling it out as pure sanctimony.
Tusk accusing Juncker of arrogance over the migration crisis. It was Juncker who argued for a more open border and migrant quotas over European values, otherwise it would be "just enough international organisation".
Tusk arguing it was an EU Commission power grab and wanted to strengthen your external border instead.
Cameron and the UK stayed totally out it, not being in Schengen.
This is also why, whatever outcome we get, deal, no deal or remain, the national Brexit fracture will not be healed for some cnsiderable time.
During our European car holidays with our 3 children years ago we visited Dachau and Mauthausen, and subsequently Yad Vashem, and the horrors they represented had a deep lasting effect on all my family and any comparison to brexit is utterly shameful
Oh god, the prissy pearl-clutchers are out in force.
It was, of course, Brexiters who brought up the Holocaust and then tried to claim the higher moral ground. Shame to see you indulge in it, Big G.
You were the one who said Brexiteers should face Nuremberg-style trials. When last I checked, you were a Remainer.
I described May (and Corbyn) as guilty of the “economic version of a war crime”, and then suggested facetiously that any subsequent trial be held in Nuneaton rather than Nuremberg.
Somehow this is construed as comparing Brexit to the Holocaust by the pearl-clutching brigade, who seek to parade their noble and pure consciences while simultaneously aiming to shut down criticism.
Gillray would have farted in their general direction.
Even if I accepted your interpretation of your post, and that isn't the way it comes across, the fact remains you compared May and Corbyn to Nazis. Whatever their faults, that is just crass (Corbyn may dislike Jews, but he's not actively trying to kill them even if some of his friends are). They are, admittedly rather badly, implementing a decision th country forced on them.
And incidentally Brexit, whatever else it is, isn't anything remotely comparable to a war crime.
Finally, for your point to be valid this would have to be planned. The whole problem is it hasn't been.
I don't think you do yourself any favours by such lurid hyperbole and I'm sure several posters will tell you coming from me that's practically a professional opinion.
This is also why, whatever outcome we get, deal, no deal or remain, the national Brexit fracture will not be healed for some cnsiderable time.
During our European car holidays with our 3 children years ago we visited Dachau and Mauthausen, and subsequently Yad Vashem, and the horrors they represented had a deep lasting effect on all my family and any comparison to brexit is utterly shameful
Oh god, the prissy pearl-clutchers are out in force.
It was, of course, Brexiters who brought up the Holocaust and then tried to claim the higher moral ground. Shame to see you indulge in it, Big G.
You were the one who said Brexiteers should face Nuremberg-style trials. When last I checked, you were a Remainer.
I described May (and Corbyn) as guilty of the “economic version of a war crime”, and then suggested facetiously that any subsequent trial be held in Nuneaton rather than Nuremberg.
Somehow this is construed as comparing Brexit to the Holocaust by the pearl-clutching brigade, who seek to parade their noble and pure consciences while simultaneously aiming to shut down criticism.
Gillray would have farted in their general direction.
Even if I accepted your interpretation of your post, and that isn't the way it comes across, the fact remains you compared May and Corbyn to Nazis. Whatever their faults, that is just crass (Corbyn may dislike Jews, but he's not actively trying to kill them even if some of his friends are). They are, admittedly rather badly, implementing a decision th country forced on them.
And incidentally Brexit, whatever else it is, isn't anything remotely comparable to a war crime.
Finally, for your point to be valid this would have to be planned. The whole problem is it hasn't been.
I don't think you do yourself any favours by such lurid hyperbole and I'm sure several posters will tell you coming from me that's practically a professional opinion.
Well said, and that really ought to be the end of the matter.
This is also why, whatever outcome we get, deal, no deal or remain, the national Brexit fracture will not be healed for some cnsiderable time.
During our European car holidays with our 3 children years ago we visited Dachau and Mauthausen, and subsequently Yad Vashem, and the horrors they represented had a deep lasting effect on all my family and any comparison to brexit is utterly shameful
Oh god, the prissy pearl-clutchers are out in force.
It was, of course, Brexiters who brought up the Holocaust and then tried to claim the higher moral ground. Shame to see you indulge in it, Big G.
You were the one who said Brexiteers should face Nuremberg-style trials. When last I checked, you were a Remainer.
I described May (and Corbyn) as guilty of the “economic version of a war crime”, and then suggested facetiously that any subsequent trial be held in Nuneaton rather than Nuremberg.
Somehow this is construed as comparing Brexit to the Holocaust by the pearl-clutching brigade, who seek to parade their noble and pure consciences while simultaneously aiming to shut down criticism.
Gillray would have farted in their general direction.
Even if I accepted your interpretation of your post, and that isn't the way it comes across, the fact remains you compared May and Corbyn to Nazis. Whatever their faults, that is just crass. They are, admittedly rather badly, implementing a decision th country forced on them.
And incidentally Brexit, whatever else it is, isn't anything remotely comparable to a war crime.
Finally, for your point to be valid this would have to be planned. The whole problem is it hasn't been.
I don't think you do yourself any favours by such lurid hyperbole and I'm sure several posters will tell you coming from me that's practically a professional opinion.
You are being a rather pompous pedant. Upthread, Jasper Carrott jokes about the bomb going off. Are we to despise him on behalf of the dead and maimed of Nagasaki and Hiroshima?
Anyway. The serious point is that both May and Corbyn are willing to inflict economic damage to the country for no reason other than party politics.
It is quite wicked.
I can’t think of a modern comparator, to be honest, outside of authoritarian regimes.
This is also why, whatever outcome we get, deal, no deal or remain, the national Brexit fracture will not be healed for some cnsiderable time.
During our European car holidays with our 3 children years ago we visited Dachau and Mauthausen, and subsequently Yad Vashem, and the horrors they represented had a deep lasting effect on all my family and any comparison to brexit is utterly shameful
Oh god, the prissy pearl-clutchers are out in force.
It was, of course, Brexiters who brought up the Holocaust and then tried to claim the higher moral ground. Shame to see you indulge in it, Big G.
You were the one who said Brexiteers should face Nuremberg-style trials. When last I checked, you were a Remainer.
I described May (and Corbyn) as guilty of the “economic version of a war crime”, and then suggested facetiously that any subsequent trial be held in Nuneaton rather than Nuremberg.
Somehow this is construed as comparing Brexit to the Holocaust by the pearl-clutching brigade, who seek to parade their noble and pure consciences while simultaneously aiming to shut down criticism.
Gillray would have farted in their general direction.
Even if I accepted your interpretation of your post, and that isn't the way it comes across, the fact remains you compared May and Corbyn to Nazis. Whatever their faults, that is just crass (Corbyn may dislike Jews, but he's not actively trying to kill them even if some of his friends are). They are, admittedly rather badly, implementing a decision th country forced on them.
And incidentally Brexit, whatever else it is, isn't anything remotely comparable to a war crime.
Finally, for your point to be valid this would have to be planned. The whole problem is it hasn't been.
I don't think you do yourself any favours by such lurid hyperbole and I'm sure several posters will tell you coming from me that's practically a professional opinion.
I look forward to similar hoity toity condemnations of Corbyn being called a Stalinist (or indeed a Communist/Trot/Maoist).
This is also why, whatever outcome we get, deal, no deal or remain, the national Brexit fracture will not be healed for some cnsiderable time.
During our European car holidays with our 3 children years ago we visited Dachau and Mauthausen, and subsequently Yad Vashem, and the horrors they represented had a deep lasting effect on all my family and any comparison to brexit is utterly shameful
Oh god, the prissy pearl-clutchers are out in force.
It was, of course, Brexiters who brought up the Holocaust and then tried to claim the higher moral ground. Shame to see you indulge in it, Big G.
You were the one who said Brexiteers should face Nuremberg-style trials. When last I checked, you were a Remainer.
I described May (and Corbyn) as guilty of the “economic version of a war crime”, and then suggested facetiously that any subsequent trial be held in Nuneaton rather than Nuremberg.
Somehow this is construed as comparing Brexit to the Holocaust by the pearl-clutching brigade, who seek to parade their noble and pure consciences while simultaneously aiming to shut down criticism.
Gillray would have farted in their general direction.
Even if I accepted your interpretation of your post, and that isn't the way it comes across, the fact remains you compared May and Corbyn to Nazis. Whatever their faults, that is just crass (Corbyn may dislike Jews, but he's not actively trying to kill them even if some of his friends are). They are, admittedly rather badly, implementing a decision th country forced on them.
And incidentally Brexit, whatever else it is, isn't anything remotely comparable to a war crime.
Finally, for your point to be valid this would have to be planned. The whole problem is it hasn't been.
I don't think you do yourself any favours by such lurid hyperbole and I'm sure several posters will tell you coming from me that's practically a professional opinion.
I look forward to similar hoity toity condemnations of Corbyn being called a Stalinist (or indeed a Communist/Trot/Maoist).
But when it comes to those, I'm the one making them!
Edit - well, except for Communist. He's the one who calls himself that.
Anyway. The serious point is that both May and Corbyn are willing to inflict economic damage to the country for no reason other than party politics.
It is quite wicked.
I can’t think of a modern comparator, to be honest, outside of authoritarian regimes.
They're inflicting it on us because we voted for it.
Even though I remain convinced we were wrong to do so, to say that implementing the result of a democratic vote is comparable to an authoritarian regime - well, really!
I'm afraid you may think me a pompous pedant, but you're just coming across as hysterical now.
May 2nd GE would be the best day this year, if we must have an election. Local Govt elections across the country are on the same day...
Yes I was thinking that. It might not make any difference to Brexit - there's likely be no majority for anything afterwards either as the country is so split - but it might save a lot of story council seats
The right way for potential PMs to eat a bacon roll, perhaps? Remember those innocent days?
Are there Conservatives who admit they'd actually feel better if EdM and EdB were running things, rather than TM and PH (not to forget Andrea Jenkyn, of course), even if EdM was a sloppy eater and EdB was a bit fat?
That's a slightly odd question
A Tory No Deal Brexit is the one scenario under which Jeremy Corbyn has a realistic chance of becoming PM. Which, of course, is why he wants one.
Actually Corbyn's best chance of becoming PM is if the Tories revoke Brexit given mostn party
Did you enjoy your visit to Israel and Palestine. We did it some years ago and it was fascinating with so much to see and to try to understand
It is true that travel broadens the mind
Am still there until Saturday, leaving Jerusalem tomorrow and onto Galilee via Nablus.
As you no doubt discovered on your trip it is a fascinating region and full of history and of importance to the 3 religions of the book. Started off in Bethlehem and visited Hebron and Ramallah and Herod's Fortress of Masada, swam in the Dead Sea and have been staying in Jerusalem for the last few days.
I found Hebron the point where the divide between Palestinans and Jews was strongest, even the tomb of Abraham was separated between them. Masada was astonishing with spectacular views and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was a real mix of Christian traditions, especially good to visit early in the morning, the Garden Tomb near the hotel was also an interesting find which some Protestant traditions consider the actual site of Jesus' tomb
You sum it up very well.
Our highlight was when our coach, with an Auschwitz survivor tour guide, drove round the road blocks on the first day of Arafat's peace treaty into Jericho and our guide got out, went up the steps at the walls and embraced the Palestinian soldier on duty. It was highly charged and symbolic as the Arab and Jew shared a genuine moment, and our bus of international tourists broke out in spontaneous applause
Sadly it did not last
Sounds a good story and shows that humanity can bridge ethnic divisions.
Anyway, two hours ahead here so off to bed now, night all
Comments
Thompson PR Associates
It is true that travel broadens the mind
What's the point of being in power if you obtain power by destroying your raison d'être?
Just a completely boring, unimaginative, backward mess.
A black hole.
We have to leave as best we can but no one is going to be happy
Brexit is less like childbirth, and more like a drug addict.
Chasing the elusive high promised by the dealers, we inject more and more poison into the veins of the body politic.
If it doesn't kill us, we will still likely be severely damaged for decades to come.
This is also why, whatever outcome we get, deal, no deal or remain, the national Brexit fracture will not be healed for some cnsiderable time.
https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2014/03/andrew-lilico-the-wrench-upon-our-identities-that-scottish-independence-would-cause.html
And if the Conservative Party were no more, with no more Britain and no more Britons, and no more hope of resurrecting a Whiggish constitution or forming an alliance of Britons across the world, why should we not seek a pan-European centre-right political identity instead?
Fortunately all the above is currently just morbid reflection on what might be if all goes badly. Let us hope – fervently – that the Scots independence vote goes the right way and we need never reflect upon these sorrows again.
Point is, the backstop will never go away under any subsequent EU/UK deal.
A May victory would be a result of the electorate judging Corbyn a useless git, not because they approve of Brexit.
The issue would persist.
As you no doubt discovered on your trip it is a fascinating region and full of history and of importance to the 3 religions of the book. Started off in Bethlehem and visited Hebron and Ramallah and Herod's Fortress of Masada, swam in the Dead Sea and have been staying in Jerusalem for the last few days.
I found Hebron the point where the divide between Palestinans and Jews was strongest, even the tomb of Abraham was separated between them. Masada was astonishing with spectacular views and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre was a real mix of Christian traditions, especially good to visit early in the morning, the Garden Tomb near the hotel was also an interesting find which some Protestant traditions consider the actual site of Jesus' tomb
I really can't see how this government can stagger on until 2022 and if it did it would be unlikely to be in any functioning shape by then.
The problem I found was I was spoiled for choice in what to look at. Could have spent a month there and not seen everything.
Our highlight was when our coach, with an Auschwitz survivor tour guide, drove round the road blocks on the first day of Arafat's peace treaty into Jericho and our guide got out, went up the steps at the walls and embraced the Palestinian soldier on duty. It was highly charged and symbolic as the Arab and Jew shared a genuine moment, and our bus of international tourists broke out in spontaneous applause
Sadly it did not last
After all, if the first vote didn't get it right, where's the harm in making people vote again?
It was, of course, Brexiters who brought up the Holocaust and then tried to claim the higher moral ground. Shame to see you indulge in it, Big G.
Which would mean she'll actually be calling the election "on" a day next month (if it happens)
He shows that anything is possible.
He does. He is living, breathing proof that all you need, if you want to get somewhere in life, is self-belief. Not intelligence, or talent, or skill, or knowledge, or basic competence, or anything like that. Just self-belief.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/02/11/stop-knocking-chris-grayling-man-should-inspiration-us/
I think the comparison remains a crime against perspective.
Shame to see you resort to it, GW.
I can’t see it helping anyone or anything, but a bit of untrammelled emergency executive power would probably appeal to Tessie right now.
And he's still not as useless as Laura Pidcock.
Somehow this is construed as comparing Brexit to the Holocaust by the pearl-clutching brigade, who seek to parade their noble and pure consciences while simultaneously aiming to shut down criticism.
Gillray would have farted in their general direction.
And yes, he’s a soft target... because he’s utterly useless.
I’m not claiming they did it first.
I’m calling it out as pure sanctimony.
Tusk arguing it was an EU Commission power grab and wanted to strengthen your external border instead.
Cameron and the UK stayed totally out it, not being in Schengen.
https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1094932365800022016
And incidentally Brexit, whatever else it is, isn't anything remotely comparable to a war crime.
Finally, for your point to be valid this would have to be planned. The whole problem is it hasn't been.
I don't think you do yourself any favours by such lurid hyperbole and I'm sure several posters will tell you coming from me that's practically a professional opinion.
Upthread, Jasper Carrott jokes about the bomb going off. Are we to despise him on behalf of the dead and maimed of Nagasaki and Hiroshima?
Anyway. The serious point is that both May and Corbyn are willing to inflict economic damage to the country for no reason other than party politics.
It is quite wicked.
I can’t think of a modern comparator, to be honest, outside of authoritarian regimes.
Joe Root scores his third century since his last fifty.
Edit - well, except for Communist. He's the one who calls himself that.
https://twitter.com/Stone_SkyNews/status/1095067182575353857
That suggests to me they will do something that effectively amounts to reopening the Withdrawal Agreement.
Even though I remain convinced we were wrong to do so, to say that implementing the result of a democratic vote is comparable to an authoritarian regime - well, really!
I'm afraid you may think me a pompous pedant, but you're just coming across as hysterical now.
Anyway, two hours ahead here so off to bed now, night all
I hope to go back one day.
Anyway, I am worn out, and I am off to bed. Sweet dreams all.