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  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,138

    Sammy Wilson mysteriously denounces Tusk and his "Trident-wielding cabal". Have we outsourced our nuclear deterrent to Brussels?

    If we did Remain and we eventually had direct elections to European leadership positions, it would be a pleasure to be able to vote for Tusk.

    Tusk brought up hell. The devil rules hell and wields a trident. Wilson is calling him and his cabal the devil.

    Isn't that quite obvious?

    It was quite obvious, yes.

    Insane.

    But obvious.
  • Sammy Wilson mysteriously denounces Tusk and his "Trident-wielding cabal". Have we outsourced our nuclear deterrent to Brussels?

    If we did Remain and we eventually had direct elections to European leadership positions, it would be a pleasure to be able to vote for Tusk.

    Tusk brought up hell. The devil rules hell and wields a trident. Wilson is calling him and his cabal the devil.

    Isn't that quite obvious?

    He should have written trident-wielding, not Trident-wielding.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742
    Fishing said:

    Sean_F said:



    But, if you want a reason it's this. A country where rich people have some of their income redistributed to the poor is likely to be freer and safer for the rich to live in than a country where they don't.

    That's one reason. Another, perhaps more important, economic reason is that the larger a country is, the more its industries reap various economies of scale. I won't weary people with the studies that show that (I looked at them professionally in another context a couple of years ago). But, other things being equal, large countries' industries are more innovative and dynamic than smaller ones.

    So, London benefits hugely from being joined to the rest of the country.
    And of course, similarly, we gain hugely from being part of the Single Market.
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited February 2019
    felix said:

    Scott_P said:
    He is having a go at both sides there which rather does suggest he´s having a Liam Neeson moment.
    Tusk does look a bit like Liam Neeson as well. So if they need to replace Neeson in any films he has already shot perhaps they could use Donald as a body double?

    Of course one of Neeson's most famous roles was playing Michael Collins - who won Ireland its freedom but in doing so made compromises which led to civil war and his ultimate death.
  • viewcode said:

    TGOHF said:

    Mafia capo makes threats shock.

    Tusks actions look part of a wider strategy to intimidate other countries who might think about leaving rather than Brexit. He's certainly not helping the Remain clause.

    I would challenge you to find a remainer in the country who hasn't said far worse about the brexiteer brain trust than merely demanding eternal damnation in Yorkshire.
    Yorkshire is God's own county.

    If you want damnation I suggest Lancashire, Lincolnshire, or Middlesbrough.
    Lancashire has some pretty bits. Lincolnshire has Lincoln, which is nice. But Middlesbrough is unrecoverable. It makes your heart cry. It's like the worse parts of Essex without the quick train to London.
    Mind you, out of ugliness can come beauty (& I don't mean the 2049 iteration).

    'Trailer for Blade Runner 2049 takes us back to a world inspired by Teesside'

    https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/trailer-blade-runner-2049-takes-13007760

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,138

    One of the oddest features of Brexit is that as the negotiations have got more and more shambolic and further and further away from the promised Shangri La, Leavers have got steadily more and more extreme in their hatred of the EU and more and more certain that Brexit is the true path.

    Wait until they get to Michael Gove's reported position.

    That sustained No Deal means we rejoin within a decade.

    That'll be a glorious realisation.
    Gove apparently wants a shock advertising campaign on TV to warn about No Deal.

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1092835757650337792
    Something along these lines?

    https://youtu.be/9SqRNUUOk7s
    I was thinking more "Threads" directed by Eli Roth... :)
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Scott_P said:

    SeanT said:

    Hey, here's an idea Alastair. Stop "loathing" people you've never met and cannot know? It's not good for you. Really.

    But, that's the very essence of Brexit...
    It's true. I've never met Jean-Claude Juncker et al.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Scott_P said:

    SeanT said:

    Hey, here's an idea Alastair. Stop "loathing" people you've never met and cannot know? It's not good for you. Really.

    But, that's the very essence of Brexit...
    For you maybe. Those of us who leave our bedrooms get on famously with people on both sides of the Brexit debate.
  • Because it's a massive misunderstanding to believe that 'Switzerland' generates its income and wealth independently of 'Portugal'.

    Also, because 'Portugal' has 58 million people and 'Switzerland' has 8 million and, you know, democracy. You'd have thought that Brexit might have driven that home but no, like so much else about Brexit, all it's done is reinforce pre-existing prejudices rather than challenge them.

    I think Alistair's comment about mutual disdain and incomprehension was actually a reference to his attitude to democracy.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387
    viewcode said:

    One of the oddest features of Brexit is that as the negotiations have got more and more shambolic and further and further away from the promised Shangri La, Leavers have got steadily more and more extreme in their hatred of the EU and more and more certain that Brexit is the true path.

    Wait until they get to Michael Gove's reported position.

    That sustained No Deal means we rejoin within a decade.

    That'll be a glorious realisation.
    Gove apparently wants a shock advertising campaign on TV to warn about No Deal.

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1092835757650337792
    Something along these lines?

    https://youtu.be/9SqRNUUOk7s
    I was thinking more "Threads" directed by Eli Roth... :)
    Threads would be considered too optimistic by the People's Vote Campaign.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626
    SeanT said:

    So Tusk has just made No Deal a Racing Certainty. I can't help feeling that wasn't what he intended. Both sides have gone nuts.

    Such a good job that the EU doesn't have the Bomb. The concept of Mutually Assured Destruction seems to be utterly alien to Donald "First Strike" Tusk.....
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,138
    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    One of the oddest features of Brexit is that as the negotiations have got more and more shambolic and further and further away from the promised Shangri La, Leavers have got steadily more and more extreme in their hatred of the EU and more and more certain that Brexit is the true path.

    Wait until they get to Michael Gove's reported position.

    That sustained No Deal means we rejoin within a decade.

    That'll be a glorious realisation.
    Gove apparently wants a shock advertising campaign on TV to warn about No Deal.

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1092835757650337792
    Something along these lines?

    https://youtu.be/9SqRNUUOk7s
    I was thinking more "Threads" directed by Eli Roth... :)
    Threads would be considered too optimistic by the People's Vote Campaign.
    It scared the living shit out of my little sister... :(

    What's the Australian film in which a meteor strikes the North Atlantic and they have twelve(?) hours before the firestorm hits Stralia?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Anecdote: Am listening to some posh twit on the tube mansplain that No Deal is the “only ethical” outcome because “tariffs are immoral”, that we must become like Singapore, and that “businesses will fail but others will replace them in time”.

    Just posting it here for amusement. I wonder if this is the mean Brexiter view?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Brom said:

    For you maybe. Those of us who leave our bedrooms get on famously with people on both sides of the Brexit debate.

    https://twitter.com/MichaelPDeacon/status/1093139098313900032
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Endillion said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:



    The dynamo part of the country - London, specifically, the City of London - is also the part of the country which damn nearly broke the economy in 2007-2008, which has cost the country a huge amount, is still costing it - RBS will never repay the money put into it - and which has disgusted many with the criminality and bad behaviour which has been exposed (and there is far more which has gone on than has ever been made public).

    It is also arguable how much money the City actually makes for itself without the effective guarantee provided by the government for its operations. It is that guarantee for the retail side which enabled much of the casino banking to go on. I know that there have been changes since then to try and separate the two but I am not at all sure how effective they will be in practice should something like the 2008 financial crash happen again.

    Frankly, a period of humility on its part is needed not lectures about how social cohesion requires other parts of the country to do what it wants and listen to lectures about how people outside London are losers.

    The lectures come the other way around. Britain is an economy like Switzerland's yoked to an economy like Portugal's. But Portugal seeks to dictate to Switzerland how it should spend its money, seeks to shackle its economy and complains about its values.
    That's been the case ever since poorer constituencies started returning Labour MP's, who got money transferred to their constituencies from richer areas of the country.
    Portugal needs to explain to Switzerland why it should care about them at all. With very different values and an attitude of mutual disdain and incomprehension, that's not at all obvious right now.
    Portugal's kids end up as the next generation of key employees in Switzerland's industries.
    There is no shortage of would-be immigrants to London from around the world.
    That should be true, but it isn't really reflected in the graduate applications my firm receives.
  • Sammy Wilson mysteriously denounces Tusk and his "Trident-wielding cabal". Have we outsourced our nuclear deterrent to Brussels?

    If we did Remain and we eventually had direct elections to European leadership positions, it would be a pleasure to be able to vote for Tusk.

    Tusk brought up hell. The devil rules hell and wields a trident. Wilson is calling him and his cabal the devil.

    Isn't that quite obvious?

    He should have written trident-wielding, not Trident-wielding.
    Even outwith the heat of the moment, expecting Sammy to get the nuances of capitalisation is a stretch.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Scott_P said:

    Brom said:

    For you maybe. Those of us who leave our bedrooms get on famously with people on both sides of the Brexit debate.

    https://twitter.com/MichaelPDeacon/status/1093139098313900032
    Nice of you to admit Donald was wrong then Scotty :)
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    eek said:
    In the splendid BBC series on Europe currently running, Tusk refers to '...the stupid Referendum', a phrase he used in front of Cameron apparently.

    Tusk just doesn't get it.
    He does get it and that's why leavers go into paroxysm of rage when he says it.

    He could phrase it more diplomatically certainly but his central point is essentially correct - we are largely in the current mess because the Brexiteers never had a credible plan that they could all agree upon. There is no form of Brexit that the leavers themselves agree on let alone one the other half of the country or the EU might accept.
  • Good afternoon, my fellow sinners.
  • SeanT said:

    nico67 said:

    Well said Tusk.

    The poor Brexit snowflakes can’t handle the truth .

    You do realise he's just gleefully and stupidly poured petrol all over the Brexit fire, with no idea what this might provoke, even as he claims it is the clueless Brexiteers causing chaos?

    He has a history of losing it, and hysteria, when it comes to Brexit: remember he once said Brexit would be the end of western political civilisation?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36515680

    My guess it that Brexit offends him in some deep emotional way, like a kind of heresy (hence the talk of "hell" - a Freudian insight there). Also he looks like a man with a growing and fearful awareness that he might get some of the blame if No Deal happens. Even as he's just done his very best to make it happen.

    A slightly troubled man has just made a very foolish remark. As someone says downthread, it is his Liam Neeson moment.
    I think you credit Tusk with too much influence. We're heading for No Deal and have been for some time - it's what the ERG and Jezza are desperate for. Yes, I'm sure some of that crowd will blame No Deal on Tusk's being beastly, but they were always going to find something else to blame no matter what, so the consequences of his utterance are actually none existent.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,387
    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    One of the oddest features of Brexit is that as the negotiations have got more and more shambolic and further and further away from the promised Shangri La, Leavers have got steadily more and more extreme in their hatred of the EU and more and more certain that Brexit is the true path.

    Wait until they get to Michael Gove's reported position.

    That sustained No Deal means we rejoin within a decade.

    That'll be a glorious realisation.
    Gove apparently wants a shock advertising campaign on TV to warn about No Deal.

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1092835757650337792
    Something along these lines?

    https://youtu.be/9SqRNUUOk7s
    I was thinking more "Threads" directed by Eli Roth... :)
    Threads would be considered too optimistic by the People's Vote Campaign.
    It scared the living shit out of my little sister... :(

    What's the Australian film in which a meteor strikes the North Atlantic and they have twelve(?) hours before the firestorm hits Stralia?
    Threads is one of the most frightening films ever produced, It doesn't rely on the supernatural, or stylish serial killers, it's low budget, entirely believable horror.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,631
    MaxPB said:

    Honestly if the PM can secure a legally binding time limit on the backstop then the deal goes from crap to good. The ERG would join the camp of traitorous pigdogs if they voted it down to try and force no deal. I might actually start to prefer remain over no deal just so they don't get their way.

    Agree, but the change has to be in the actual Treaty.
  • Good afternoon, my fellow sinners.

    We are all in the gutter, but Leavers are looking at the gutter.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,279
    viewcode said:

    Tusk has given me an idea for how we could re-unite the country.

    A referendum on eternal damnation for Boris Johnson.

    He's fat, balding, in late middle age, his career aspirations have died, he's failed in all his jobs and relationships, and he's on his third wife. He seems to be damning himself, to be honest... :(
    Worked for Trump...
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,057
    edited February 2019
    Foxy said:

    Fishing said:

    Sean_F said:



    But, if you want a reason it's this. A country where rich people have some of their income redistributed to the poor is likely to be freer and safer for the rich to live in than a country where they don't.

    That's one reason. Another, perhaps more important, economic reason is that the larger a country is, the more its industries reap various economies of scale. I won't weary people with the studies that show that (I looked at them professionally in another context a couple of years ago). But, other things being equal, large countries' industries are more innovative and dynamic than smaller ones.

    So, London benefits hugely from being joined to the rest of the country.
    And of course, similarly, we gain hugely from being part of the Single Market.
    This EU study says not:

    http://www.amchameu.eu/sites/default/files/amcham_eu_single_market_web.pdf

    (see Table 7)

    Unless you call 1.3% of GDP a huge amount (and obviously that's likely to be on the high side as it's an EU study) - I've also seen estimates of 0.75% and 0.5%.

    Because, obviously, the EU single market isn't remotely comparable to the UK in terms of economic integration.
  • SeanT said:

    nico67 said:

    Well said Tusk.

    The poor Brexit snowflakes can’t handle the truth .

    You do realise he's just gleefully and stupidly poured petrol all over the Brexit fire, with no idea what this might provoke, even as he claims it is the clueless Brexiteers causing chaos?

    He has a history of losing it, and hysteria, when it comes to Brexit: remember he once said Brexit would be the end of western political civilisation?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36515680

    My guess it that Brexit offends him in some deep emotional way, like a kind of heresy (hence the talk of "hell" - a Freudian insight there). Also he looks like a man with a growing and fearful awareness that he might get some of the blame if No Deal happens. Even as he's just done his very best to make it happen.

    A slightly troubled man has just made a very foolish remark. As someone says downthread, it is his Liam Neeson moment.
    I think you credit Tusk with too much influence. We're heading for No Deal and have been for some time - it's what the ERG and Jezza are desperate for. Yes, I'm sure some of that crowd will blame No Deal on Tusk's being beastly, but they were always going to find something else to blame no matter what, so the consequences of his utterance are actually none existent.
    And he hasn't said anything that has not been widely thought, and expressed here from time to time by posters representing a wide range of political viewpoints.

    In fact I thought the incompetence and lack of leadership on the Leave side since the referendum was a generally accepted truth.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005
    rkrkrk said:

    "She was a Remainer she took the view on becoming the PM that it was her duty to implement the result but at the same time to do so in a manner that would cause least damage to the economy."

    She is certainly not prioritising the economy by taking us out of the single market and the customs union.

    "She was a Remainer she took the view on becoming the PM that it was her duty to implement the result but at the same time to do so in a manner that would cause least damage to the economy Conservative Party."

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    I know I'm a sinner... But make me a winner...

    :face-pray:
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited February 2019
    No problem we can add him to the list:

    1) Remainers
    2) Not Brexity enough Brexiters
    3) Keir Starmer
    4) Homework-eating dog
    5) All PB Remainers
    6) Norway/Switzerland
    7) The Peoples' Vote campaign
    8) Donald Tusk
  • SeanT said:

    nico67 said:

    Well said Tusk.

    The poor Brexit snowflakes can’t handle the truth .

    You do realise he's just gleefully and stupidly poured petrol all over the Brexit fire, with no idea what this might provoke, even as he claims it is the clueless Brexiteers causing chaos?

    He has a history of losing it, and hysteria, when it comes to Brexit: remember he once said Brexit would be the end of western political civilisation?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36515680

    My guess it that Brexit offends him in some deep emotional way, like a kind of heresy (hence the talk of "hell" - a Freudian insight there). Also he looks like a man with a growing and fearful awareness that he might get some of the blame if No Deal happens. Even as he's just done his very best to make it happen.

    A slightly troubled man has just made a very foolish remark. As someone says downthread, it is his Liam Neeson moment.
    I think you credit Tusk with too much influence. We're heading for No Deal and have been for some time - it's what the ERG and Jezza are desperate for. Yes, I'm sure some of that crowd will blame No Deal on Tusk's being beastly, but they were always going to find something else to blame no matter what, so the consequences of his utterance are actually none existent.
    And he hasn't said anything that has not been widely thought, and expressed here from time to time by posters representing a wide range of political viewpoints.

    In fact I thought the incompetence and lack of leadership on the Leave side since the referendum was a generally accepted truth.
    Is it not precisely because it is a generally accepted truth that his words are causing such fury?

    Honestly, so much nonsense is being spoken. To the extent that anything is happening, it's happening between politicians. If they can't negotiate and make decisions effectively without being able to put to one side each other's view of the other, they're in the wrong job.
  • SeanT said:

    Good afternoon, my fellow sinners.

    We are all in the gutter, but Leavers are looking at the gutter.
    Alastair, just stop. Go home. Have a cup of tea. Your stream of tweets over the last two or three days have just been embarrassing and mortifying - for you. Last night you literally called yourself "one of society's dynamos". Today you are gleefully loathing millions of your fellow citizens, apparently because they are poorer than you.

    This is just sad. You are clearly a decent chap, but maybe experiencing some turmoil? Stop it now. Take a break. Come back refreshed.

    If I was spitting out comments like yours, I would hope a kindly PB-er would take me aside, and give me the same advice.
    I literally didn't. I appreciate that you're a writer, but reading is something you might wish to take up.
  • SeanT said:

    nico67 said:

    Well said Tusk.

    The poor Brexit snowflakes can’t handle the truth .

    You do realise he's just gleefully and stupidly poured petrol all over the Brexit fire, with no idea what this might provoke, even as he claims it is the clueless Brexiteers causing chaos?

    He has a history of losing it, and hysteria, when it comes to Brexit: remember he once said Brexit would be the end of western political civilisation?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36515680

    My guess it that Brexit offends him in some deep emotional way, like a kind of heresy (hence the talk of "hell" - a Freudian insight there). Also he looks like a man with a growing and fearful awareness that he might get some of the blame if No Deal happens. Even as he's just done his very best to make it happen.

    A slightly troubled man has just made a very foolish remark. As someone says downthread, it is his Liam Neeson moment.
    I think you credit Tusk with too much influence. We're heading for No Deal and have been for some time - it's what the ERG and Jezza are desperate for. Yes, I'm sure some of that crowd will blame No Deal on Tusk's being beastly, but they were always going to find something else to blame no matter what, so the consequences of his utterance are actually none existent.
    The UK Parliament voted for a deal with one simple change. A change that will happen anyway in a no deal scenario. If there is no deal now then that is because Tusk and others have chosen it.

    They wanted the backstop, they're not getting it. Oh well sucks to be them. They have a choice no backstop and no deal or no backstop but the rest of the deal. If it's no deal that's their choice.
  • SeanT said:

    nico67 said:

    Well said Tusk.

    The poor Brexit snowflakes can’t handle the truth .

    You do realise he's just gleefully and stupidly poured petrol all over the Brexit fire, with no idea what this might provoke, even as he claims it is the clueless Brexiteers causing chaos?

    He has a history of losing it, and hysteria, when it comes to Brexit: remember he once said Brexit would be the end of western political civilisation?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36515680

    My guess it that Brexit offends him in some deep emotional way, like a kind of heresy (hence the talk of "hell" - a Freudian insight there). Also he looks like a man with a growing and fearful awareness that he might get some of the blame if No Deal happens. Even as he's just done his very best to make it happen.

    A slightly troubled man has just made a very foolish remark. As someone says downthread, it is his Liam Neeson moment.
    I think you credit Tusk with too much influence. We're heading for No Deal and have been for some time - it's what the ERG and Jezza are desperate for. Yes, I'm sure some of that crowd will blame No Deal on Tusk's being beastly, but they were always going to find something else to blame no matter what, so the consequences of his utterance are actually none existent.
    Tusk is an experienced negotiator, and I'm sure he must have thought hard about the effects of his comment. I can see two reasons for him to make it.

    Firstly, given that the negotiations have reached such an impasse, he might have decided that there is nothing to lose from dropping the odd verbal grenade and that just possibly the pieces might fall in a more favourable position. It's an act of desperation after all else has failed.

    Secondly, his comment gives the impression that the EU have given up on any sort of deal, thus winding up the pressure on the UK HOC to compromise. The EU is walking towards the door, and the UK has one last chance to shout, "Wait!"
  • Tusk's #DanteGate comment doesn't look like a mis-speak. It looks premeditated, because he (or someone on his team) immediately repeated it in a tweet - and that was the only bit of his press summary which was tweeted at the time.

    So he was trying to achieve something with this.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    One of the oddest features of Brexit is that as the negotiations have got more and more shambolic and further and further away from the promised Shangri La, Leavers have got steadily more and more extreme in their hatred of the EU and more and more certain that Brexit is the true path.

    Wait until they get to Michael Gove's reported position.

    That sustained No Deal means we rejoin within a decade.

    That'll be a glorious realisation.
    Gove apparently wants a shock advertising campaign on TV to warn about No Deal.

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1092835757650337792
    Something along these lines?

    https://youtu.be/9SqRNUUOk7s
    I was thinking more "Threads" directed by Eli Roth... :)
    Threads would be considered too optimistic by the People's Vote Campaign.

    Hello - I am sending you a vm.

    Thanks.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,599
    viewcode said:

    TGOHF said:

    Mafia capo makes threats shock.

    Tusks actions look part of a wider strategy to intimidate other countries who might think about leaving rather than Brexit. He's certainly not helping the Remain clause.

    I would challenge you to find a remainer in the country who hasn't said far worse about the brexiteer brain trust than merely demanding eternal damnation in Yorkshire.
    Yorkshire is God's own county.

    If you want damnation I suggest Lancashire, Lincolnshire, or Middlesbrough.
    Lancashire has some pretty bits. Lincolnshire has Lincoln, which is nice. But Middlesbrough is unrecoverable. It makes your heart cry. It's like the worse parts of Essex without the quick train to London.

    Lincolnshire is the most under estimated and unvisited county in England. Much of it is pure heaven. Looks like most people plan to stay away and keep it that way. I visit as often as I can.

  • Mr. Meeks, makes me think of Harry Enfield.

    "I am considerably less sinful than yow."
  • Mr. Meeks, makes me think of Harry Enfield.

    "I am considerably less sinful than yow."

    I believe in original sin and with that in mind I'm looking to make my sins as original as possible.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    TGOHF said:

    Mafia capo makes threats shock.

    Tusks actions look part of a wider strategy to intimidate other countries who might think about leaving rather than Brexit. He's certainly not helping the Remain clause.

    I would challenge you to find a remainer in the country who hasn't said far worse about the brexiteer brain trust than merely demanding eternal damnation in Yorkshire.
    Yorkshire is God's own county.

    If you want damnation I suggest Lancashire, Lincolnshire, or Middlesbrough.
    Lancashire has some pretty bits. Lincolnshire has Lincoln, which is nice. But Middlesbrough is unrecoverable. It makes your heart cry. It's like the worse parts of Essex without the quick train to London.

    Lincolnshire is the most under estimated and unvisited county in England. Much of it is pure heaven. Looks like most people plan to stay away and keep it that way. I visit as often as I can.

    It does have Richard Tyndall there so make of that what you will. That said you are right, much of it is beautiful.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Has Arlene opined about the fate of "sinners" yet? :D
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626
    A tangible outcome of Tusk's comment is likely to be an increase in the polling for No Deal. A shot in the arm for the Fuck 'Em Tendency.

    It is unlikely to increase the numbers of MPs prepared to swallow hard and support May's Shit Deal.
  • Tusk's #DanteGate comment doesn't look like a mis-speak. It looks premeditated, because he (or someone on his team) immediately repeated it in a tweet - and that was the only bit of his press summary which was tweeted at the time.

    So he was trying to achieve something with this.

    Isn't it obvious? It's an attempt at a wake-up call and to force matters to a head. He would be well-aware that the Leavers would go into meltdown. Those that are potentially open to doing a deal are being spurred on to consider their terms. Those that are not will be flushed out definitively. And erstwhile Remainers who see some form of controlled management of Brexit or who want a second referendum are being pushed to stand up now.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810

    SeanT said:

    Good afternoon, my fellow sinners.

    We are all in the gutter, but Leavers are looking at the gutter.
    Alastair, just stop. Go home. Have a cup of tea. Your stream of tweets over the last two or three days have just been embarrassing and mortifying - for you. Last night you literally called yourself "one of society's dynamos". Today you are gleefully loathing millions of your fellow citizens, apparently because they are poorer than you.

    This is just sad. You are clearly a decent chap, but maybe experiencing some turmoil? Stop it now. Take a break. Come back refreshed.

    If I was spitting out comments like yours, I would hope a kindly PB-er would take me aside, and give me the same advice.
    I literally didn't. I appreciate that you're a writer, but reading is something you might wish to take up.
    :)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626
    TOPPING said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    TGOHF said:

    Mafia capo makes threats shock.

    Tusks actions look part of a wider strategy to intimidate other countries who might think about leaving rather than Brexit. He's certainly not helping the Remain clause.

    I would challenge you to find a remainer in the country who hasn't said far worse about the brexiteer brain trust than merely demanding eternal damnation in Yorkshire.
    Yorkshire is God's own county.

    If you want damnation I suggest Lancashire, Lincolnshire, or Middlesbrough.
    Lancashire has some pretty bits. Lincolnshire has Lincoln, which is nice. But Middlesbrough is unrecoverable. It makes your heart cry. It's like the worse parts of Essex without the quick train to London.

    Lincolnshire is the most under estimated and unvisited county in England. Much of it is pure heaven. Looks like most people plan to stay away and keep it that way. I visit as often as I can.

    It does have Richard Tyndall there so make of that what you will. That said you are right, much of it is beautiful.
    But a county without a motorway. And most of the A-roads are death traps. Fast cars and slow moving agricultural machinery driven by the village idiot do not make happy bedfellows. I have twice been almost an ex-poster here thanks to crazy tractor manoeuvres.
  • Tusk's #DanteGate comment doesn't look like a mis-speak. It looks premeditated, because he (or someone on his team) immediately repeated it in a tweet - and that was the only bit of his press summary which was tweeted at the time.

    So he was trying to achieve something with this.

    Isn't it obvious? It's an attempt at a wake-up call and to force matters to a head. He would be well-aware that the Leavers would go into meltdown. Those that are potentially open to doing a deal are being spurred on to consider their terms. Those that are not will be flushed out definitively. And erstwhile Remainers who see some form of controlled management of Brexit or who want a second referendum are being pushed to stand up now.
    Exactly.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Good afternoon, my fellow sinners.

    We are all in the gutter, but Leavers are looking at the gutter.
    Alastair, just stop. Go home. Have a cup of tea. Your stream of tweets over the last two or three days have just been embarrassing and mortifying - for you. Last night you literally called yourself "one of society's dynamos". Today you are gleefully loathing millions of your fellow citizens, apparently because they are poorer than you.

    This is just sad. You are clearly a decent chap, but maybe experiencing some turmoil? Stop it now. Take a break. Come back refreshed.

    If I was spitting out comments like yours, I would hope a kindly PB-er would take me aside, and give me the same advice.
    I literally didn't. I appreciate that you're a writer, but reading is something you might wish to take up.
    Ah well, I tried to help.
    I'd worry about your own postings, insight (and/or lack thereof) and understanding before opining on others'.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    SeanT said:

    Good afternoon, my fellow sinners.

    We are all in the gutter, but Leavers are looking at the gutter.
    Alastair, just stop. Go home. Have a cup of tea. Your stream of tweets over the last two or three days have just been embarrassing and mortifying - for you. Last night you literally called yourself "one of society's dynamos". Today you are gleefully loathing millions of your fellow citizens, apparently because they are poorer than you.

    This is just sad. You are clearly a decent chap, but maybe experiencing some turmoil? Stop it now. Take a break. Come back refreshed.

    If I was spitting out comments like yours, I would hope a kindly PB-er would take me aside, and give me the same advice.
    "If I was spitting out comments like yours..."

    Do you genuinely erase from your memory all those time you have been, shall we say, less than temperate?

    Never mind 'offer you advice', kindly PB-ers know to steer well clear. Alastair is a paragon of moderation in comparison.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626
    Cheer us all up and say you'd quit politics, Greg.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    2nd ref odds drifting. On second thoughts maybe we need to let Donald speak more often!
  • https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1093143359261196288

    Insofar as it was ever a real thing, that doesn't bode well for Jezza's 'elect us and we'll negotiate a better deal' bollox.
  • Tusk's #DanteGate comment doesn't look like a mis-speak. It looks premeditated, because he (or someone on his team) immediately repeated it in a tweet - and that was the only bit of his press summary which was tweeted at the time.

    So he was trying to achieve something with this.

    Isn't it obvious? It's an attempt at a wake-up call and to force matters to a head. He would be well-aware that the Leavers would go into meltdown. Those that are potentially open to doing a deal are being spurred on to consider their terms. Those that are not will be flushed out definitively. And erstwhile Remainers who see some form of controlled management of Brexit or who want a second referendum are being pushed to stand up now.
    Parliament has decided terms it can ratify a deal on already.
  • SeanT said:

    Tusk's #DanteGate comment doesn't look like a mis-speak. It looks premeditated, because he (or someone on his team) immediately repeated it in a tweet - and that was the only bit of his press summary which was tweeted at the time.

    So he was trying to achieve something with this.

    Yes, I speculated about that on Twitter. Did he plan it, if so, why? Does he actively want No Deal? - that would seem to be the obvious result of his stoking the fires so recklessly.
    I think Alastair's explanation is probably right. It could be combined with some kind of concession on the backstop tomorrow, but we shall see.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,279
    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    TGOHF said:

    Mafia capo makes threats shock.

    Tusks actions look part of a wider strategy to intimidate other countries who might think about leaving rather than Brexit. He's certainly not helping the Remain clause.

    I would challenge you to find a remainer in the country who hasn't said far worse about the brexiteer brain trust than merely demanding eternal damnation in Yorkshire.
    Yorkshire is God's own county.

    If you want damnation I suggest Lancashire, Lincolnshire, or Middlesbrough.
    Lancashire has some pretty bits. Lincolnshire has Lincoln, which is nice. But Middlesbrough is unrecoverable. It makes your heart cry. It's like the worse parts of Essex without the quick train to London.

    Lincolnshire is the most under estimated and unvisited county in England. Much of it is pure heaven. Looks like most people plan to stay away and keep it that way. I visit as often as I can.

    I had no idea they grew so much cabbage in heaven.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Oh I just have no time for people who mewl and puke about how unfair it is that the limited resources should be spent on the bits of the country that actually make money, while voting to reduce those limited resources because foreigners.
    The dynamo part of the country - London, specifically, the City of London - is also the part of the country which damn nearly broke the economy in 2007-2008, which has cost the country a huge amount, is still costing it - RBS will never repay the money put into it - and which has disgusted many with the criminality and bad behaviour which has been exposed (and there is far more which has gone on than has ever been made public).

    It is also arguable how much money the City actually makes for itself without the effective guarantee provided by the government for its operations. It is that guarantee for the retail side which enabled much of the casino banking to go on. I know that there have been changes since then to try and separate the two but I am not at all sure how effective they will be in practice should something like the 2008 financial crash happen again.

    Frankly, a period of humility on its part is needed not lectures about how social cohesion requires other parts of the country to do what it wants and listen to lectures about how people outside London are losers.
    The lectures come the other way around. Britain is an economy like Switzerland's yoked to an economy like Portugal's. But Portugal seeks to dictate to Switzerland how it should spend its money, seeks to shackle its economy and complains about its values.
    That's been the case ever since poorer constituencies started returning Labour MP's, who got money transferred to their constituencies from richer areas of the country.
    Portugal needs to explain to Switzerland why it should care about them at all. With very different values and an attitude of mutual disdain and incomprehension, that's not at all obvious right now.
    Well, the same might also be said the other way. Why should Portugal care about Switzerland is just as valid a question. Indeed, it was a question I posed a while back.

    See http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/01/20/cyclefree-asks-are-banks-the-new-unions/
    and, in particular, the penultimate two paragraphs.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,279

    SeanT said:

    Good afternoon, my fellow sinners.

    We are all in the gutter, but Leavers are looking at the gutter.
    Alastair, just stop. Go home. Have a cup of tea. Your stream of tweets over the last two or three days have just been embarrassing and mortifying - for you. Last night you literally called yourself "one of society's dynamos". Today you are gleefully loathing millions of your fellow citizens, apparently because they are poorer than you.

    This is just sad. You are clearly a decent chap, but maybe experiencing some turmoil? Stop it now. Take a break. Come back refreshed.

    If I was spitting out comments like yours, I would hope a kindly PB-er would take me aside, and give me the same advice.
    "If I was spitting out comments like yours..."

    Do you genuinely erase from your memory all those time you have been, shall we say, less than temperate?

    Never mind 'offer you advice', kindly PB-ers know to steer well clear. Alastair is a paragon of moderation in comparison.
    More to the point, in a Tusk like piece of undiplomacy, you have alienated every PB pedant.

    'If I were...'
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cyclefree said:

    Tusk is right, though, however tactless he may have been in spelling it out.

    It is embarrassing watching May turn up to "negotiate" something she agreed to a few weeks ago when any likely result of such "negotiations" will be another defeat in Parliament.

    The Leavers have had no realistic or realisable plan.

    I was prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt, if they had a plan.

    But they don't. And are now blaming everyone else for their own failure.

    That I cannot forgive.

    The result will almost certainly be a disastrously chaotic exit with who knows what economic, political and social consequences, long-term damage to Britain's reputation as a stable, competent polity, harm to other European countries, a Corbyn government and the likely destruction of the Tory party (which is a shame for those decent Tories - both MPs and voters - out there, if not for anyone else).

    And all this despite having two options which would help us climb out of this mess - revocation of Article 50 or a further referendum to decide what we want to do now, in light of the facts as they are now, in the real world, not what people thought prior to 23 June 2016, let alone the facts inside some peoples' heads.

    When you're drowning in an icy lake you take the stick proffered to you, no matter how covered in shit it may be.

    Rubbish. Leavers did have a realistic and reasonable plan but May decided that being a xenophobe was more important than anything else in the negotiations. So the sensible plans were ignored and we had the ridiculous mess that May has driven us in to.

    And your two 'options' are both code for Remain, however much you might delude yourself about it.
    I don't delude myself. I would be OK with leave with a plan and a WA. That is not what we are going to get.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    TGOHF said:

    Mafia capo makes threats shock.

    Tusks actions look part of a wider strategy to intimidate other countries who might think about leaving rather than Brexit. He's certainly not helping the Remain clause.

    I would challenge you to find a remainer in the country who hasn't said far worse about the brexiteer brain trust than merely demanding eternal damnation in Yorkshire.
    Yorkshire is God's own county.

    If you want damnation I suggest Lancashire, Lincolnshire, or Middlesbrough.
    Lancashire has some pretty bits. Lincolnshire has Lincoln, which is nice. But Middlesbrough is unrecoverable. It makes your heart cry. It's like the worse parts of Essex without the quick train to London.

    Lincolnshire is the most under estimated and unvisited county in England. Much of it is pure heaven. Looks like most people plan to stay away and keep it that way. I visit as often as I can.

    It does have Richard Tyndall there so make of that what you will. That said you are right, much of it is beautiful.
    But a county without a motorway. And most of the A-roads are death traps. Fast cars and slow moving agricultural machinery driven by the village idiot do not make happy bedfellows. I have twice been almost an ex-poster here thanks to crazy tractor manoeuvres.
    It's an agriculturally rich county what can you do?
  • SeanT said:

    Tusk's #DanteGate comment doesn't look like a mis-speak. It looks premeditated, because he (or someone on his team) immediately repeated it in a tweet - and that was the only bit of his press summary which was tweeted at the time.

    So he was trying to achieve something with this.

    Yes, I speculated about that on Twitter. Did he plan it, if so, why? Does he actively want No Deal? - that would seem to be the obvious result of his stoking the fires so recklessly.
    I think Alastair's explanation is probably right. It could be combined with some kind of concession on the backstop tomorrow, but we shall see.
    Let's hope he is an arsehole with a plan, because at the moment...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,279

    Cyclefree said:

    Tusk is right, though, however tactless he may have been in spelling it out.

    It is embarrassing watching May turn up to "negotiate" something she agreed to a few weeks ago when any likely result of such "negotiations" will be another defeat in Parliament.

    The Leavers have had no realistic or realisable plan.

    I was prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt, if they had a plan.

    But they don't. And are now blaming everyone else for their own failure.

    That I cannot forgive.

    The result will almost certainly be a disastrously chaotic exit with who knows what economic, political and social consequences, long-term damage to Britain's reputation as a stable, competent polity, harm to other European countries, a Corbyn government and the likely destruction of the Tory party (which is a shame for those decent Tories - both MPs and voters - out there, if not for anyone else).

    And all this despite having two options which would help us climb out of this mess - revocation of Article 50 or a further referendum to decide what we want to do now, in light of the facts as they are now, in the real world, not what people thought prior to 23 June 2016, let alone the facts inside some peoples' heads.

    When you're drowning in an icy lake you take the stick proffered to you, no matter how covered in shit it may be.

    Rubbish. Leavers did have a realistic and reasonable plan but May decided that being a xenophobe was more important than anything else in the negotiations. So the sensible plans were ignored and we had the ridiculous mess that May has driven us in to.

    And your two 'options' are both code for Remain, however much you might delude yourself about it.
    Rubbish back at you, Richard.
    A minority of leavers had a realistic plan. They have never been in the driving seat.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Scott_P said:
    Yes because when Farage says something Ian Dunt would never reply with an angry tweet. Farage was fairly measured by his standards.
    Fantastic satire from Dunty.
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    TGOHF said:

    Mafia capo makes threats shock.

    Tusks actions look part of a wider strategy to intimidate other countries who might think about leaving rather than Brexit. He's certainly not helping the Remain clause.

    I would challenge you to find a remainer in the country who hasn't said far worse about the brexiteer brain trust than merely demanding eternal damnation in Yorkshire.
    Yorkshire is God's own county.

    If you want damnation I suggest Lancashire, Lincolnshire, or Middlesbrough.
    Lancashire has some pretty bits. Lincolnshire has Lincoln, which is nice. But Middlesbrough is unrecoverable. It makes your heart cry. It's like the worse parts of Essex without the quick train to London.

    Lincolnshire is the most under estimated and unvisited county in England. Much of it is pure heaven. Looks like most people plan to stay away and keep it that way. I visit as often as I can.

    It does have Richard Tyndall there so make of that what you will. That said you are right, much of it is beautiful.
    But a county without a motorway. And most of the A-roads are death traps. Fast cars and slow moving agricultural machinery driven by the village idiot do not make happy bedfellows. I have twice been almost an ex-poster here thanks to crazy tractor manoeuvres.
    It's an agriculturally rich county what can you do?
    Drive more slowly?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    The dynamo part of the country - London, specifically, the City of London - is also the part of the country which damn nearly broke the economy in 2007-2008, which has cost the country a huge amount, is still costing it - RBS will never repay the money put into it - and which has disgusted many with the criminality and bad behaviour which has been exposed (and there is far more which has gone on than has ever been made public).

    It is also arguable how much money the City actually makes for itself without the effective guarantee provided by the government for its operations. It is that guarantee for the retail side which enabled much of the casino banking to go on. I know that there have been changes since then to try and separate the two but I am not at all sure how effective they will be in practice should something like the 2008 financial crash happen again.

    Frankly, a period of humility on its part is needed not lectures about how social cohesion requires other parts of the country to do what it wants and listen to lectures about how people outside London are losers.

    You are if anything too kind about the City, or at least the part of it that I worked in - investment banking.

    I did that for quite some time and was often possessed by a feeling of absurdity at the amount of money routinely 'earned' by people (including myself) for doing stuff that was (i) not particularly difficult and (ii) not particularly useful. I would describe it as not so much a career as grand larceny.

    As to the implicit state guarantee of the sector, yes, that is effectively an enormous government subsidy. If it was priced and charged for at commercial 3rd party (credit swap) rates the IB bottom line, ceteris paribus, would not be a pretty sight.
    Indeed so. Much of investment banking is not and never was profitable. The tax revenues were froth and not sustainable. And this is something that is routinely ignored by many of those who think that London earns its money, independent of the rest of the country and is simply a source of funds rather than also a drain on the country's resources.

    There is also the opportunity cost of having so much talent sucked into the City as opposed to other industries/sectors.

    I am not often accused of being too kind about investment banking. I spent decades investigating and pursuing its crooks. If anything, I am far too cynical.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,254
    brendan16 said:

    Tusk does look a bit like Liam Neeson as well. So if they need to replace Neeson in any films he has already shot perhaps they could use Donald as a body double?

    Of course one of Neeson's most famous roles was playing Michael Collins - who won Ireland its freedom but in doing so made compromises which led to civil war and his ultimate death.

    Caught a bit of Liam's interview yesterday in which he made it clear that revenge not race was the driver for his desire, back then, to kill a random black man.

    If his friend's attacker had been Lithuanian, he stressed, he would have been motivated to seek out and terminate a Lithuanian man.

    Fair enough.
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    Looking at the flames lapping at MayDay's rear in the portrait above, it seems that Mike's artist daughter-in-law foresaw Tusky's hellish comparison.
  • Mr. Brom, the odds have been drifting for a while. Think it was 3 or 4 the last time I checked.
  • Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Tusk is right, though, however tactless he may have been in spelling it out.

    It is embarrassing watching May turn up to "negotiate" something she agreed to a few weeks ago when any likely result of such "negotiations" will be another defeat in Parliament.

    The Leavers have had no realistic or realisable plan.

    I was prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt, if they had a plan.

    But they don't. And are now blaming everyone else for their own failure.

    That I cannot forgive.

    The result will almost certainly be a disastrously chaotic exit with who knows what economic, political and social consequences, long-term damage to Britain's reputation as a stable, competent polity, harm to other European countries, a Corbyn government and the likely destruction of the Tory party (which is a shame for those decent Tories - both MPs and voters - out there, if not for anyone else).

    And all this despite having two options which would help us climb out of this mess - revocation of Article 50 or a further referendum to decide what we want to do now, in light of the facts as they are now, in the real world, not what people thought prior to 23 June 2016, let alone the facts inside some peoples' heads.

    When you're drowning in an icy lake you take the stick proffered to you, no matter how covered in shit it may be.

    Rubbish. Leavers did have a realistic and reasonable plan but May decided that being a xenophobe was more important than anything else in the negotiations. So the sensible plans were ignored and we had the ridiculous mess that May has driven us in to.

    And your two 'options' are both code for Remain, however much you might delude yourself about it.
    Rubbish back at you, Richard.
    A minority of leavers had a realistic plan. They have never been in the driving seat.
    Richard, you will have to tell us what this 'realistic plan' was. I can't say I ever saw one, and I was looking.

    No Deal is realistic, at least in the sense it can be put into practice, so I guess it is a plan of sorts, but I guess that wasn't what you had in mind?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited February 2019

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    TGOHF said:

    Mafia capo makes threats shock.

    Tusks actions look part of a wider strategy to intimidate other countries who might think about leaving rather than Brexit. He's certainly not helping the Remain clause.

    I would challenge you to find a remainer in the country who hasn't said far worse about the brexiteer brain trust than merely demanding eternal damnation in Yorkshire.
    Yorkshire is God's own county.

    If you want damnation I suggest Lancashire, Lincolnshire, or Middlesbrough.
    Lancashire has some pretty bits. Lincolnshire has Lincoln, which is nice. But Middlesbrough is unrecoverable. It makes your heart cry. It's like the worse parts of Essex without the quick train to London.

    Lincolnshire is the most under estimated and unvisited county in England. Much of it is pure heaven. Looks like most people plan to stay away and keep it that way. I visit as often as I can.

    It does have Richard Tyndall there so make of that what you will. That said you are right, much of it is beautiful.
    But a county without a motorway. And most of the A-roads are death traps. Fast cars and slow moving agricultural machinery driven by the village idiot do not make happy bedfellows. I have twice been almost an ex-poster here thanks to crazy tractor manoeuvres.
    It's an agriculturally rich county what can you do?
    Drive more slowly?
    In the spirit of Leaver/Remainer cordiality I didn't dare suggest that.

    Edit: I remember this - https://gov.uk/government/news/country-roads-deadlier-than-you-think
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,279
    The Tusk comment, however justified, was deeply unfortunate.

    It offers No Deal Brexiteers encouragement - and assistance in shifting the blame for its consequences onto the unreasonable EU.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,599
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    TGOHF said:

    Mafia capo makes threats shock.

    Tusks actions look part of a wider strategy to intimidate other countries who might think about leaving rather than Brexit. He's certainly not helping the Remain clause.

    I would challenge you to find a remainer in the country who hasn't said far worse about the brexiteer brain trust than merely demanding eternal damnation in Yorkshire.
    Yorkshire is God's own county.

    If you want damnation I suggest Lancashire, Lincolnshire, or Middlesbrough.
    Lancashire has some pretty bits. Lincolnshire has Lincoln, which is nice. But Middlesbrough is unrecoverable. It makes your heart cry. It's like the worse parts of Essex without the quick train to London.

    Lincolnshire is the most under estimated and unvisited county in England. Much of it is pure heaven. Looks like most people plan to stay away and keep it that way. I visit as often as I can.

    It does have Richard Tyndall there so make of that what you will. That said you are right, much of it is beautiful.
    But a county without a motorway. And most of the A-roads are death traps. Fast cars and slow moving agricultural machinery driven by the village idiot do not make happy bedfellows. I have twice been almost an ex-poster here thanks to crazy tractor manoeuvres.
    It's an agriculturally rich county what can you do?

    And it's way off the A Roads you need to be in Lincolnshire, and without any sense of rush. It is huge with amazing variety, history, buildings and space. Lots of sky. Takes your mind off Brexit.

  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Mr. Brom, the odds have been drifting for a while. Think it was 3 or 4 the last time I checked.

    Out to 5.2 now. A lot of outward movement ever since the Cooper amendment was defeated and a further nudge out today.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    algarkirk said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    TGOHF said:

    Mafia capo makes threats shock.

    Tusks actions look part of a wider strategy to intimidate other countries who might think about leaving rather than Brexit. He's certainly not helping the Remain clause.

    I would challenge you to find a remainer in the country who hasn't said far worse about the brexiteer brain trust than merely demanding eternal damnation in Yorkshire.
    Yorkshire is God's own county.

    If you want damnation I suggest Lancashire, Lincolnshire, or Middlesbrough.
    Lancashire has some pretty bits. Lincolnshire has Lincoln, which is nice. But Middlesbrough is unrecoverable. It makes your heart cry. It's like the worse parts of Essex without the quick train to London.

    Lincolnshire is the most under estimated and unvisited county in England. Much of it is pure heaven. Looks like most people plan to stay away and keep it that way. I visit as often as I can.

    It does have Richard Tyndall there so make of that what you will. That said you are right, much of it is beautiful.
    But a county without a motorway. And most of the A-roads are death traps. Fast cars and slow moving agricultural machinery driven by the village idiot do not make happy bedfellows. I have twice been almost an ex-poster here thanks to crazy tractor manoeuvres.
    It's an agriculturally rich county what can you do?

    And it's way off the A Roads you need to be in Lincolnshire, and without any sense of rush. It is huge with amazing variety, history, buildings and space. Lots of sky. Takes your mind off Brexit.

    Ha! Should have noticed your user name!
  • Mr. Brom, ah I think you're speaking of Betfair and I'm talking about Ladbrokes.

    Not the first time an EU disagreement has been down to talking at cross purposes :p
  • _Anazina__Anazina_ Posts: 1,810
    kinabalu said:

    brendan16 said:

    Tusk does look a bit like Liam Neeson as well. So if they need to replace Neeson in any films he has already shot perhaps they could use Donald as a body double?

    Of course one of Neeson's most famous roles was playing Michael Collins - who won Ireland its freedom but in doing so made compromises which led to civil war and his ultimate death.

    Caught a bit of Liam's interview yesterday in which he made it clear that revenge not race was the driver for his desire, back then, to kill a random black man.

    If his friend's attacker had been Lithuanian, he stressed, he would have been motivated to seek out and terminate a Lithuanian man.

    Fair enough.
    If his friend's attacker had been an Irishman, presumably he would have been motivated to seek out and terminate an Irishman?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    _Anazina_ said:

    kinabalu said:

    brendan16 said:

    Tusk does look a bit like Liam Neeson as well. So if they need to replace Neeson in any films he has already shot perhaps they could use Donald as a body double?

    Of course one of Neeson's most famous roles was playing Michael Collins - who won Ireland its freedom but in doing so made compromises which led to civil war and his ultimate death.

    Caught a bit of Liam's interview yesterday in which he made it clear that revenge not race was the driver for his desire, back then, to kill a random black man.

    If his friend's attacker had been Lithuanian, he stressed, he would have been motivated to seek out and terminate a Lithuanian man.

    Fair enough.
    If his friend's attacker had been an Irishman, presumably he would have been motivated to seek out and terminate an Irishman?
    He have thrown himself off the top of the local NCP multistory, obviously.
  • _Anazina_ said:

    kinabalu said:

    brendan16 said:

    Tusk does look a bit like Liam Neeson as well. So if they need to replace Neeson in any films he has already shot perhaps they could use Donald as a body double?

    Of course one of Neeson's most famous roles was playing Michael Collins - who won Ireland its freedom but in doing so made compromises which led to civil war and his ultimate death.

    Caught a bit of Liam's interview yesterday in which he made it clear that revenge not race was the driver for his desire, back then, to kill a random black man.

    If his friend's attacker had been Lithuanian, he stressed, he would have been motivated to seek out and terminate a Lithuanian man.

    Fair enough.
    If his friend's attacker had been an Irishman, presumably he would have been motivated to seek out and terminate an Irishman?
    Isn't that exactly what happened for 30 years?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,500
    Having finished a) an energetic gym session, b) an enjoyable, if short walk (since that's all I can manage at the moment and c) an excellent homemade soup and sandwich lunch I put on the TV for the ITV News and heard Donald Tusks's remarks, which, IMHO are entirely justified. The poor man, and his colleagues, are clearly totally fed up with British shilly-shallying.

    The only coherent 'plan' is coherent is the right word, I have heard from Leavers is that of cutting all ties at one feel swoop and letting nature take its course thereafter.

    Which is generally, or at least 86%, agreed will lead to short-term at least disaster and long term misery.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    algarkirk said:

    viewcode said:

    TGOHF said:

    Mafia capo makes threats shock.

    Tusks actions look part of a wider strategy to intimidate other countries who might think about leaving rather than Brexit. He's certainly not helping the Remain clause.

    I would challenge you to find a remainer in the country who hasn't said far worse about the brexiteer brain trust than merely demanding eternal damnation in Yorkshire.
    Yorkshire is God's own county.

    If you want damnation I suggest Lancashire, Lincolnshire, or Middlesbrough.
    Lancashire has some pretty bits. Lincolnshire has Lincoln, which is nice. But Middlesbrough is unrecoverable. It makes your heart cry. It's like the worse parts of Essex without the quick train to London.

    Lincolnshire is the most under estimated and unvisited county in England. Much of it is pure heaven. Looks like most people plan to stay away and keep it that way. I visit as often as I can.

    It does have Richard Tyndall there so make of that what you will. That said you are right, much of it is beautiful.
    But a county without a motorway. And most of the A-roads are death traps. Fast cars and slow moving agricultural machinery driven by the village idiot do not make happy bedfellows. I have twice been almost an ex-poster here thanks to crazy tractor manoeuvres.
    It's an agriculturally rich county what can you do?
    Leave well alone!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Having finished a) an energetic gym session, b) an enjoyable, if short walk (since that's all I can manage at the moment and c) an excellent homemade soup and sandwich lunch I put on the TV for the ITV News and heard Donald Tusks's remarks, which, IMHO are entirely justified. The poor man, and his colleagues, are clearly totally fed up with British shilly-shallying.

    The only coherent 'plan' is coherent is the right word, I have heard from Leavers is that of cutting all ties at one feel swoop and letting nature take its course thereafter.

    Which is generally, or at least 86%, agreed will lead to short-term at least disaster and long term misery.

    Are they? I don't recall people saying that there are places in hell for their political opponents in normal discourse.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,500
    Anorak said:

    _Anazina_ said:

    kinabalu said:

    brendan16 said:

    Tusk does look a bit like Liam Neeson as well. So if they need to replace Neeson in any films he has already shot perhaps they could use Donald as a body double?

    Of course one of Neeson's most famous roles was playing Michael Collins - who won Ireland its freedom but in doing so made compromises which led to civil war and his ultimate death.

    Caught a bit of Liam's interview yesterday in which he made it clear that revenge not race was the driver for his desire, back then, to kill a random black man.

    If his friend's attacker had been Lithuanian, he stressed, he would have been motivated to seek out and terminate a Lithuanian man.

    Fair enough.
    If his friend's attacker had been an Irishman, presumably he would have been motivated to seek out and terminate an Irishman?
    He have thrown himself off the top of the local NCP multistory, obviously.
    He said he'd do just that; terminate an Irishman.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited February 2019

    Having finished a) an energetic gym session, b) an enjoyable, if short walk (since that's all I can manage at the moment and c) an excellent homemade soup and sandwich lunch I put on the TV for the ITV News and heard Donald Tusks's remarks, which, IMHO are entirely justified. The poor man, and his colleagues, are clearly totally fed up with British shilly-shallying.

    The only coherent 'plan' is coherent is the right word, I have heard from Leavers is that of cutting all ties at one feel swoop and letting nature take its course thereafter.

    Which is generally, or at least 86%, agreed will lead to short-term at least disaster and long term misery.

    Ah, but we'll be free from the tentacles of the undemocratic, unaccountable, federalist EUSSR!! So worth it. Also, Selmayrs basically Hitler without the moustache or charisma.
  • RobD said:

    Having finished a) an energetic gym session, b) an enjoyable, if short walk (since that's all I can manage at the moment and c) an excellent homemade soup and sandwich lunch I put on the TV for the ITV News and heard Donald Tusks's remarks, which, IMHO are entirely justified. The poor man, and his colleagues, are clearly totally fed up with British shilly-shallying.

    The only coherent 'plan' is coherent is the right word, I have heard from Leavers is that of cutting all ties at one feel swoop and letting nature take its course thereafter.

    Which is generally, or at least 86%, agreed will lead to short-term at least disaster and long term misery.

    Are they? I don't recall people saying that there are places in hell for their political opponents in normal discourse.
    Political opponents in normal discourse are rarely as purely evil as brexit.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,500
    edited February 2019
    RobD said:

    Having finished a) an energetic gym session, b) an enjoyable, if short walk (since that's all I can manage at the moment and c) an excellent homemade soup and sandwich lunch I put on the TV for the ITV News and heard Donald Tusks's remarks, which, IMHO are entirely justified. The poor man, and his colleagues, are clearly totally fed up with British shilly-shallying.

    The only coherent 'plan' is coherent is the right word, I have heard from Leavers is that of cutting all ties at one feel swoop and letting nature take its course thereafter.

    Which is generally, or at least 86%, agreed will lead to short-term at least disaster and long term misery.

    Are they? I don't recall people saying that there are places in hell for their political opponents in normal discourse.
    The DUP are, I agree not normal discourse. I got the distinct impression, though, that Tusk has had more than enough of people agreeing something after long and detailed negotiations and then coming back and saying they've changed their minds.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,042
    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    One of the oddest features of Brexit is that as the negotiations have got more and more shambolic and further and further away from the promised Shangri La, Leavers have got steadily more and more extreme in their hatred of the EU and more and more certain that Brexit is the true path.

    Wait until they get to Michael Gove's reported position.

    That sustained No Deal means we rejoin within a decade.

    That'll be a glorious realisation.
    Gove apparently wants a shock advertising campaign on TV to warn about No Deal.

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1092835757650337792
    Something along these lines?

    https://youtu.be/9SqRNUUOk7s
    I was thinking more "Threads" directed by Eli Roth... :)
    Threads would be considered too optimistic by the People's Vote Campaign.
    It scared the living shit out of my little sister... :(

    What's the Australian film in which a meteor strikes the North Atlantic and they have twelve(?) hours before the firestorm hits Stralia?
    Four weddings and seven billion funerals?
  • RobD said:

    Having finished a) an energetic gym session, b) an enjoyable, if short walk (since that's all I can manage at the moment and c) an excellent homemade soup and sandwich lunch I put on the TV for the ITV News and heard Donald Tusks's remarks, which, IMHO are entirely justified. The poor man, and his colleagues, are clearly totally fed up with British shilly-shallying.

    The only coherent 'plan' is coherent is the right word, I have heard from Leavers is that of cutting all ties at one feel swoop and letting nature take its course thereafter.

    Which is generally, or at least 86%, agreed will lead to short-term at least disaster and long term misery.

    Are they? I don't recall people saying that there are places in hell for their political opponents in normal discourse.
    The DUP are, I agree not not,mal discourse. I got the distinct impression, though, that Tusk has had more than enough of people agreeing something after long and detailed negotiations and then coming back and saying they've changed their minds.
    Parliament never agreed to the backstop
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    RobD said:

    Having finished a) an energetic gym session, b) an enjoyable, if short walk (since that's all I can manage at the moment and c) an excellent homemade soup and sandwich lunch I put on the TV for the ITV News and heard Donald Tusks's remarks, which, IMHO are entirely justified. The poor man, and his colleagues, are clearly totally fed up with British shilly-shallying.

    The only coherent 'plan' is coherent is the right word, I have heard from Leavers is that of cutting all ties at one feel swoop and letting nature take its course thereafter.

    Which is generally, or at least 86%, agreed will lead to short-term at least disaster and long term misery.

    Are they? I don't recall people saying that there are places in hell for their political opponents in normal discourse.
    The DUP are, I agree not not,mal discourse. I got the distinct impression, though, that Tusk has had more than enough of people agreeing something after long and detailed negotiations and then coming back and saying they've changed their minds.
    I just think it's unnecessarily personal. I don't think the government has changed its mind, it was instructed by parliament that the deal was unacceptable. There is still time for them to change their mind though.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    viewcode said:

    Sean_F said:

    viewcode said:

    One of the oddest features of Brexit is that as the negotiations have got more and more shambolic and further and further away from the promised Shangri La, Leavers have got steadily more and more extreme in their hatred of the EU and more and more certain that Brexit is the true path.

    Wait until they get to Michael Gove's reported position.

    That sustained No Deal means we rejoin within a decade.

    That'll be a glorious realisation.
    Gove apparently wants a shock advertising campaign on TV to warn about No Deal.

    https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1092835757650337792
    Something along these lines?

    https://youtu.be/9SqRNUUOk7s
    I was thinking more "Threads" directed by Eli Roth... :)
    Threads would be considered too optimistic by the People's Vote Campaign.
    It scared the living shit out of my little sister... :(

    What's the Australian film in which a meteor strikes the North Atlantic and they have twelve(?) hours before the firestorm hits Stralia?
    Four weddings and seven billion funerals?
    Four weddings and a barbie, mate.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,254
    edited February 2019
    Cyclefree said:

    Indeed so. Much of investment banking is not and never was profitable. The tax revenues were froth and not sustainable. And this is something that is routinely ignored by many of those who think that London earns its money, independent of the rest of the country and is simply a source of funds rather than also a drain on the country's resources.

    There is also the opportunity cost of having so much talent sucked into the City as opposed to other industries/sectors.


    I am not often accused of being too kind about investment banking. I spent decades investigating and pursuing its crooks. If anything, I am far too cynical.

    "Tax on business" said Buffett about IB. Which it is.

    Have bolded the sentence above because it is IMO one of the very biggest negatives of having a bloated financial sector.

    A lot of IB is a con. It pretends to be risk-taking and operating in an ultra free market. In fact the risks are to others and there is more cartel than competition. The sector is actually cossetted and inefficient and MASSIVELY over-remunerated, although if you work there it is important, to preserve self-esteem, to kid yourself otherwise.

    "I made £20m for the bank last year so I deserve a £1m bonus. That's still £19m for the bank, right?"

    Mmm, except that -

    - Anybody bright and robust could have done it with the right training.
    - You have used the bank's balance sheet.
    - And been supported by all of the bank's middle and back office, staff and IT.
    - You already have a big salary.
    - If you had lost money there would be no negative bonus.

    Joke, it really is. I benefited but it bugged me then and it still bugs me now.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,042

    https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1093143359261196288

    Insofar as it was ever a real thing, that doesn't bode well for Jezza's 'elect us and we'll negotiate a better deal' bollox.

    Nice to see the Lib Dems described as "no political force and no effective leadership". Tusk is a smart cookie.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,500
    Tusk wasn't, I think 'getting at' May. He was, though getting at those like the ERG and DUP for whom nothing is acceptable, and who are unable to accept that in negotiations such as these 'half a loaf' is the best you are going to get.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,042
    GIN1138 said:

    Has Arlene opined about the fate of "sinners" yet? :D

    Just to say that the No Dealers will be moving in next door to the Papists.
  • Mr. Thompson, aye. The UK hasn't reneged on anything because the UK never backed the proposed deal in the Commons.

    May, on the other hand, might have. But that's not the same thing.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,500

    https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/1093143359261196288

    Insofar as it was ever a real thing, that doesn't bode well for Jezza's 'elect us and we'll negotiate a better deal' bollox.

    Nice to see the Lib Dems described as "no political force and no effective leadership". Tusk is a smart cookie.
    Bit hard on Nicola.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626

    Tusk wasn't, I think 'getting at' May. He was, though getting at those like the ERG and DUP for whom nothing is acceptable, and who are unable to accept that in negotiations such as these 'half a loaf' is the best you are going to get.

    No Loaf Brexit!
  • Tusk wasn't, I think 'getting at' May. He was, though getting at those like the ERG and DUP for whom nothing is acceptable, and who are unable to accept that in negotiations such as these 'half a loaf' is the best you are going to get.

    The ERG and DUP voted to back the deal with one small change. A change that happens anyway if there's no deal.

    It's clear who the hardliners are.
This discussion has been closed.