Sensing that perhaps a shit, "stepping stone" Brexit is better than no Brexit on 29th March. Have a few beers, celebrate the victory and then wake up on the 30th complete the process of taking over the Tory party and repudiating the bulk of the deal from outside the EU
If the Deal passes, the FTA will be softer still as all the dynamics of the Deal push that way.
Repudiating a Deal just signed is not the way for us to regain our reputation for trustworthiness and competence, yet those are the basis for all rest of the world negotiations.
People on Labours front bench aren’t following Cooper into the Lobby. Honour deal Labour MPs wont support a remain Trojan horse dressed up in delay hard brexit clothing. Coopers is a dead duck, it will be binned before next week.
To avoid no deal Murrison is the only show in town now.
Murrison's Unicorn amendment is a complete irrelevance unless the EU agrees, nope it is Cooper's amendment which is more likely to pass then momentum will start to build for a Remain v Deal EUref2 which in turn could force more No Dealers to back the Deal to avoid it
But the backchat from the Govt is that they support the Murrison amendment. i.e May wants to go to Brussels and say do this and I can get the deal passed. This is debatable, but it is at least moving things forward.
Well of course May wants a Deal with no backstop but the who reason she had to agree her Deal with the backstop was because the EU were adamant it had to be included. So unless the EU change tack and there has been zero evidence of that, Murrison's unicorn amendment remains an irrelevance
Yes probably. And as for the poker analogy we showed our hand a while ago, we already made our bluff and it was called.
People on Labours front bench aren’t following Cooper into the Lobby. Honour deal Labour MPs wont support a remain Trojan horse dressed up in delay hard brexit clothing. Coopers is a dead duck, it will be binned before next week.
To avoid no deal Murrison is the only show in town now.
The way McDonnell was talking about it made it seem very likely Labour would be backing it, he stopped short of saying that but made very positive noises about it. Why are you so sure they won't back the Cooper amendment?
Indeed. They seemed practically there and it's a chance to stay on the fence while defeating the gov again.
People on Labours front bench aren’t following Cooper into the Lobby. Honour deal Labour MPs wont support a remain Trojan horse dressed up in delay hard brexit clothing. Coopers is a dead duck, it will be binned before next week.
To avoid no deal Murrison is the only show in town now.
Murrison's Unicorn amendment is a complete irrelevance unless the EU agrees, nope it is Cooper's amendment which is more likely to pass then momentum will start to build for a Remain v Deal EUref2 which in turn could force more No Dealers to back the Deal to avoid it
But the backchat from the Govt is that they support the Murrison amendment. i.e May wants to go to Brussels and say do this and I can get the deal passed. This is debatable, but it is at least moving things forward.
Well of course May wants a Deal with no backstop but the who reason she had to agree her Deal with the backstop was because the EU were adamant it had to be included. So unless the EU change tack and there has been zero evidence of that, Murrison's unicorn amendment remains an irrelevance
Yes probably. And as for the poker analogy we showed our hand a while ago, we already made our bluff and it was called.
But the EU are also bluffing. Fun game of poker this....we both have a shit hand. Whose is really the worst? (Answer: Ireland's.....)
It's genuinely hard to make out what's happening. I was getting the impression that more or less enough Tories were coming back to the Deal, when suddenly her allies produce this Brady amendment, which I think has no chance whatever of EU acceptance.
wtf?
Playing for time?
Making a compromise seem possible and themselves reasonable whilst running down the clock and attacking the other options that are emerging.
If they can make a compromise seem close maybe they can keep enough Conservatives who could go rogue onside then in the longer term hopefully (from their POV) the other options are eliminated by time and arguments among their opponents.
Yes, you're probably right - fits with May's strategy up to now. But that really is putting personal survival ahead of the country.
We need the hardest of hard Brexits. No deal. Factories have to close. Big businesses have to move and the service industries have to set up elsewhere. The Harlepudlians have to understand that foreigners were not the root of their problems.
The ERGers must complete the takeover of the country and be allowed to quaff their champagne and gorge their canapes (little pastries with toppings*)- as planned on the 29th.
Then when the political pendulum moves enlightened forces can take back control and the renaissance can start. On a wave of popular support we can rejoin the EU accepting the euro Shengen and a European army and the Faragists can slink back to from whence they came never to be seen again
We need the hardest of hard Brexits. No deal. Factories have to close. Big businesses have to move and the service industries have to set up elsewhere. The Harlepudlians have to understand that foreigners were not the root of their problems.
The ERGers must complete the takeover of the country and be allowed to quaff their champagne and gorge their canapes (little pastries with toppings*)- as planned on the 29th.
Then when the political pendulum moves enlightened forces can take back control and the renaissance can start. On a wave of popular support we can rejoin the EU accepting the euro Shengen and a European army and the Faragists can slink back to from whence they came.
*For ERGers
"Canapes"? We're not eating any of that foreign muck! Give us good old traditional British home-cooking - pizzas and spag bol and vindaloo!
"...The UK has 15% of the F35 program, which the whole world wants to buy..."
Although it's not as good as the F22 and the wings are too small, I like the F35 rather a lot. But if 15% of one plane built in the US is the sum total of the UK aviation industry then we are fucked.
To perhaps be a bit less shouty about it for a moment, for the past few years the MOD has started buying off the shelf instead of long involved developments like the F35 or A400M. So we got the Rivet Joint from Boeing, the Boxers from Rhinemetall, etc. So the spyplane purchase you refer to (the Wedgetail) is more a case of that than that.
We need the hardest of hard Brexits. No deal. Factories have to close. Big businesses have to move and the service industries have to set up elsewhere. The Harlepudlians have to understand that foreigners were not the root of their problems.
The ERGers must complete the takeover of the country and be allowed to quaff their champagne and gorge their canapes (little pastries with toppings*)- as planned on the 29th.
Then when the political pendulum moves enlightened forces can take back control and the renaissance can start. On a wave of popular support we can rejoin the EU accepting the euro Shengen and a European army and the Faragists can slink back to from whence they came never to be seen again
We need the hardest of hard Brexits. No deal. Factories have to close. Big businesses have to move and the service industries have to set up elsewhere. The Harlepudlians have to understand that foreigners were not the root of their problems.
The ERGers must complete the takeover of the country and be allowed to quaff their champagne and gorge their canapes (little pastries with toppings*)- as planned on the 29th.
Then when the political pendulum moves enlightened forces can take back control and the renaissance can start. On a wave of popular support we can rejoin the EU accepting the euro Shengen and a European army and the Faragists can slink back to from whence they came never to be seen again
We need the hardest of hard Brexits. No deal. Factories have to close. Big businesses have to move and the service industries have to set up elsewhere. The Harlepudlians have to understand that foreigners were not the root of their problems.
The ERGers must complete the takeover of the country and be allowed to quaff their champagne and gorge their canapes (little pastries with toppings*)- as planned on the 29th.
Then when the political pendulum moves enlightened forces can take back control and the renaissance can start. On a wave of popular support we can rejoin the EU accepting the euro Shengen and a European army and the Faragists can slink back to from whence they came never to be seen again
The reason the EU27 won’t budge on the backstop is that they do not trust us. They have heard Davis, Johnson, Raab etc. They know the loons now control the Tory party. They realise that once May goes someone even shiftier will take over. Unfortunately, they’re right.
We need the hardest of hard Brexits. No deal. Factories have to close. Big businesses have to move and the service industries have to set up elsewhere. The Harlepudlians have to understand that foreigners were not the root of their problems.
The ERGers must complete the takeover of the country and be allowed to quaff their champagne and gorge their canapes (little pastries with toppings*)- as planned on the 29th.
Then when the political pendulum moves enlightened forces can take back control and the renaissance can start. On a wave of popular support we can rejoin the EU accepting the euro Shengen and a European army and the Faragists can slink back to from whence they came never to be seen again
The reason the EU27 won’t budge on the backstop is that they do not trust us. They have heard Davis, Johnson, Raab etc. They know the loons now control the Tory party. They realise that once May goes someone even shiftier will take over. Unfortunately, they’re right.
Will May move to find common ground? Or will she continue to play politics and the blame game?
Will Corbyn move to find common ground, or will he continue to play politics and the blame game..
I sincerely hope so.
F e a r f a c t o r
Well, are we voting for Eevee’s amendment or not, asks McD. Remind me again what could go wrong, asks Jez. Will I lose more credibility. Will I be handing that [silly goose] of a prime minister something to mercilessly beat me with like 2018 groundhog day all over again, will I lose all my voters. We honestly haven’t a clue, honestly answers Nick (Brown) Well I ain’t supporting it then am I, irascibly answers Jez.
But he’s right, of course. People were sold a false dream, the promises made were undeliverable and the country is deeply divided - to the extent it may well not exist in its current form in a decade’s time.
We need the hardest of hard Brexits. No deal. Factories have to close. Big businesses have to move and the service industries have to set up elsewhere. The Harlepudlians have to understand that foreigners were not the root of their problems.
The ERGers must complete the takeover of the country and be allowed to quaff their champagne and gorge their canapes (little pastries with toppings*)- as planned on the 29th.
Then when the political pendulum moves enlightened forces can take back control and the renaissance can start. On a wave of popular support we can rejoin the EU accepting the euro Shengen and a European army and the Faragists can slink back to from whence they came never to be seen again
Will May move to find common ground? Or will she continue to play politics and the blame game?
She will continue to make a dog's brexit of the whole thing
Meanwhile Rees-Mogg will hold out for a full English, and the PV lot will hold out with equal fanaticism for a Continental.
And Remain At Any Cost want vegan!
Who'd run the Brexit B&B, eh?
The only thing we can guarantee is that Corbyn's choice won't be kosher.
I'll get my coat...
Have a good morning.
On the contrary, Jezza has been vegetarian for decades, leaning vegan, so his breakfast is definitely both kosher and halal, and acceptable to most Hindus and Jains too.
People on Labours front bench aren’t following Cooper into the Lobby. Honour deal Labour MPs wont support a remain Trojan horse dressed up in delay hard brexit clothing. Coopers is a dead duck, it will be binned before next week.
To avoid no deal Murrison is the only show in town now.
Murrison's Unicorn amendment is a complete irrelevance unless the EU agrees, nope it is Cooper's amendment which is more likely to pass then momentum will start to build for a Remain v Deal EUref2 which in turn could force more No Dealers to back the Deal to avoid it
But the backchat from the Govt is that they support the Murrison amendment. i.e May wants to go to Brussels and say do this and I can get the deal passed. This is debatable, but it is at least moving things forward.
Well of course May wants a Deal with no backstop but the who reason she had to agree her Deal with the backstop was because the EU were adamant it had to be included. So unless the EU change tack and there has been zero evidence of that, Murrison's unicorn amendment remains an irrelevance
Yes probably. And as for the poker analogy we showed our hand a while ago, we already made our bluff and it was called.
But the EU are also bluffing. Fun game of poker this....we both have a shit hand. Whose is really the worst? (Answer: Ireland's.....)
Unfortunately for us, there is one country that does worse out of a No Deal than Ireland.
People on Labours front bench aren’t following Cooper into the Lobby. Honour deal Labour MPs wont support a remain Trojan horse dressed up in delay hard brexit clothing. Coopers is a dead duck, it will be binned before next week.
To avoid no deal Murrison is the only show in town now.
Murrison's Unicorn amendment is a complete irrelevance unless the EU agrees, nope it is Cooper's amendment which is more likely to pass then momentum will start to build for a Remain v Deal EUref2 which in turn could force more No Dealers to back the Deal to avoid it
But the backchat from the Govt is that they support the Murrison amendment. i.e May wants to go to Brussels and say do this and I can get the deal passed. This is debatable, but it is at least moving things forward.
Well of course May wants a Deal with no backstop but the who reason she had to agree her Deal with the backstop was because the EU were adamant it had to be included. So unless the EU change tack and there has been zero evidence of that, Murrison's unicorn amendment remains an irrelevance
Yes probably. And as for the poker analogy we showed our hand a while ago, we already made our bluff and it was called.
But the EU are also bluffing. Fun game of poker this....we both have a shit hand. Whose is really the worst? (Answer: Ireland's.....)
Unfortunately for us, there is one country that does worse out of a No Deal than Ireland.
If the arithmetic is that close then there's a realistic possibility that the future direction of the nation, and perhaps the continent, depends on the Onasanya appeal/sentence.
We need the hardest of hard Brexits. No deal. Factories have to close. Big businesses have to move and the service industries have to set up elsewhere. The Harlepudlians have to understand that foreigners were not the root of their problems.
The ERGers must complete the takeover of the country and be allowed to quaff their champagne and gorge their canapes (little pastries with toppings*)- as planned on the 29th.
Then when the political pendulum moves enlightened forces can take back control and the renaissance can start. On a wave of popular support we can rejoin the EU accepting the euro Shengen and a European army and the Faragists can slink back to from whence they came never to be seen again
*For ERGers
The majority of the country wants neither No Deal Brexit or to rejoin the EU and certainly not to then add on the Euro and Schengen, neither will ever have sufficient support in the country to be a sustainable way forward.
The only sustainable ways forward are May's Deal, and to a lesser extent stay in the single market and Customs Union but outside the full EU
To be fair on EM, he is quite willing to mingle with his political opponents and challenge their views in open debates like the one shown. Mrs May however hides away.
Looking even further into the future, it seems plausible that the whole urban environment might find itself integrated into a dynamic landscape of very short-lived dead drops that are serviced by humans and cheap drones (unmanned aerial vehicles), which are already cheaply available and likely only require one market actor to develop and spread a mechanism to pick up and drop goods. Both merchant and customer could use drones, that are available for rent through dedicated Apps, to deliver product to a meeting point on a roof, where another drone would pick it up. Chaining multiple exchanges like this will make the tracing of the delivery extremely hard, essentially leading to mixing techniques so far used only in anonymizing digital communication.
Given the additional plausible development that long distance, high payload drones become available more widely, and for much less cost, the procurement layer of Dropgangs will also become more secure and efficient.
It is far from unlikely that these developments will lead to a breakdown of control and regulation over low weight, low volume goods. The black markets are upon us.
Continue thinking, what is possible if we combine: 4G/5G mobile internet, anonymous messaging, messaging bots, anonymous and untraceable digital currencies, strong end-to-end encryption, GPS, cheap electronics, 3D printed mechanics, cheap drones - both short distance multicopters and long distance fixed wing, visual processing for navigation, and lots of code.
We need the hardest of hard Brexits. No deal. Factories have to close. Big businesses have to move and the service industries have to set up elsewhere. The Harlepudlians have to understand that foreigners were not the root of their problems.
The ERGers must complete the takeover of the country and be allowed to quaff their champagne and gorge their canapes (little pastries with toppings*)- as planned on the 29th.
Then when the political pendulum moves enlightened forces can take back control and the renaissance can start. On a wave of popular support we can rejoin the EU accepting the euro Shengen and a European army and the Faragists can slink back to from whence they came never to be seen again
*For ERGers
The majority of the country wants neither No Deal Brexit or rejoin the EU and certainly not to then add on the Euro and Schengen, neither will ever have sufficient support in the country to be a sustainable way forward.
The only sustainable ways forward are May's Deal, and to a lesser extent stay in the single market and Customs Union but outside the full EU
So you are advocating a Labour Brexit. That's good to hear.
It has comes to a pretty bad place when a French president has more insights and intelligent things to say about Brexit than our own prime minister.
You agree with them therefore they’re clever (thus helpfully validating you). I haven’t read the actual comments (and translations in British media are not always 100%) but the reactions here are nothing if not utterly predictable.
To be fair on EM, he is quite willing to mingle with his political opponents and challenge their views in open debates like the one shown. Mrs May however hides away.
I just misread that as 'Open debates like the One Show' - had visions of 'boy jobs and girl jobs' at the Élysée.
To be fair on EM, he is quite willing to mingle with his political opponents and challenge their views in open debates like the one shown. Mrs May however hides away.
hmmm
hes accused of meeting handpicked audiences in the frennch press , maybe not so different from TM after all.
I'm surprised that no one is commenting on what is happening in plain sight. Three ministers in the last 24 hours have made their opposition to no deal plain. Theresa May is going to have to allow a free vote next week or see a slew of resignations.
Meanwhile, so far as I am aware not a single MP has changed their position to back a deal since the vote last week. For all the talk about a change in the mood, there isn't any real evidence of it.
People on Labours front bench aren’t following Cooper into the Lobby. Honour deal Labour MPs wont support a remain Trojan horse dressed up in delay hard brexit clothing. Coopers is a dead duck, it will be binned before next week.
To avoid no deal Murrison is the only show in town now.
Murrison's Unicorn amendment is a complete irrelevance unless the EU agrees, nope it is Cooper's amendment which is more likely to pass then momentum will start to build for a Remain v Deal EUref2 which in turn could force more No Dealers to back the Deal to avoid it
But the backchat from the Govt is that they support the Murrison amendment. i.e May wants to go to Brussels and say do this and I can get the deal passed. This is debatable, but it is at least moving things forward.
Well of course May wants a Deal with no backstop but the who reason she had to agree her Deal with the backstop was because the EU were adamant it had to be included. So unless the EU change tack and there has been zero evidence of that, Murrison's unicorn amendment remains an irrelevance
Yes probably. And as for the poker analogy we showed our hand a while ago, we already made our bluff and it was called.
But the EU are also bluffing. Fun game of poker this....we both have a shit hand. Whose is really the worst? (Answer: Ireland's.....)
My understanding of a "plan" goes like this. The deal passes parliament with a no backstop amendment and a no No Deal amendment.
HMG goes to EU Commission: We have a deal. Thing is, no backstop. EUC: Piss off. HMG: OK, can we have an extension to A50 [no No Deal amendment] and we'll try to sort that out? EUC: OK
HMG returns to parliament: Guys, we're out of time and out of options. Are you going to let this through?
Looks like someone had a word with him afterwards, or wrestled his phone off him. https://twitter.com/PeterWelch/status/1087857790901735426 I know deleting tweets won't prevent the story doing the rounds, but maybe its worth doing and just leaving up the apology?
Interesting that Marc Lamont Hill posted the original tweet and his comment TWO DAY AFTER it was withdrawn with apologies. He’s clearly a muck raking shit stirrer
I'm surprised that no one is commenting on what is happening in plain sight. Three ministers in the last 24 hours have made their opposition to no deal plain. Theresa May is going to have to allow a free vote next week or see a slew of resignations.
Meanwhile, so far as I am aware not a single MP has changed their position to back a deal since the vote last week. For all the talk about a change in the mood, there isn't any real evidence of it.
Im more surprised that the impact of events in Scotland arent being discussed given this could completely change the nature of politics up there. But I suppose its not London so it doesnt count,
My understanding of a "plan" goes like this. The deal passes parliament with a no backstop amendment and a no No Deal amendment.
HMG goes to EU Commission: We have a deal. Thing is, no backstop. EUC: Piss off. HMG: OK, can we have an extension to A50 [no No Deal amendment] and we'll try to sort that out? EUC: OK
HMG returns to parliament: Guys, we're out of time and out of options. Are you going to let this through?
A great plan, except:
1) it looks unlikely that a "no backstop" amendment will pass and 2) it looks likely that a "no No Deal" amendment will pass.
I'm surprised that no one is commenting on what is happening in plain sight. Three ministers in the last 24 hours have made their opposition to no deal plain. Theresa May is going to have to allow a free vote next week or see a slew of resignations.
Meanwhile, so far as I am aware not a single MP has changed their position to back a deal since the vote last week. For all the talk about a change in the mood, there isn't any real evidence of it.
Of course there won't now because other alternatives have not been voted on yet, if the Commons votes for extending Article 50 and nearly votes for single market and Customs Union BINO or Remain v Deal referendum then No Dealers will start to shift to the Deal before BINO and EUref2 win on a second vote as Dealers shift to them to stop No Deal
I'm surprised that no one is commenting on what is happening in plain sight. Three ministers in the last 24 hours have made their opposition to no deal plain. Theresa May is going to have to allow a free vote next week or see a slew of resignations.
Meanwhile, so far as I am aware not a single MP has changed their position to back a deal since the vote last week. For all the talk about a change in the mood, there isn't any real evidence of it.
I think she'll dare them to resign just as she did with the Brexiteers.
And the more they protest they better it is for Macron. Like Jeremy Corbyn, he is fortunate in his enemies.
depends how you view it. Hes had to unpick most of his key reforms, the protests are hitting economic growth and the cracks in society he says are in the UK are as nothing against the hardening fractures in France.
We need the hardest of hard Brexits. No deal. Factories have to close. Big businesses have to move and the service industries have to set up elsewhere. The Harlepudlians have to understand that foreigners were not the root of their problems.
The ERGers must complete the takeover of the country and be allowed to quaff their champagne and gorge their canapes (little pastries with toppings*)- as planned on the 29th.
Then when the political pendulum moves enlightened forces can take back control and the renaissance can start. On a wave of popular support we can rejoin the EU accepting the euro Shengen and a European army and the Faragists can slink back to from whence they came never to be seen again
*For ERGers
The majority of the country wants neither No Deal Brexit or rejoin the EU and certainly not to then add on the Euro and Schengen, neither will ever have sufficient support in the country to be a sustainable way forward.
The only sustainable ways forward are May's Deal, and to a lesser extent stay in the single market and Customs Union but outside the full EU
So you are advocating a Labour Brexit. That's good to hear.
No I am advocating a May Brexit but even a Labour Brexit would be better than No Deal or Remain and then push to join the Euro
If the arithmetic is that close then there's a realistic possibility that the future direction of the nation, and perhaps the continent, depends on the Onasanya appeal/sentence.
I'm surprised that no one is commenting on what is happening in plain sight. Three ministers in the last 24 hours have made their opposition to no deal plain. Theresa May is going to have to allow a free vote next week or see a slew of resignations.
Meanwhile, so far as I am aware not a single MP has changed their position to back a deal since the vote last week. For all the talk about a change in the mood, there isn't any real evidence of it.
Im more surprised that the impact of events in Scotland arent being discussed given this could completely change the nature of politics up there. But I suppose its not London so it doesnt count,
It surely is of significance, and hard to see the SNP coming out smelling of roses whatever the verdict, but I am not keen on commenting until it has all been aired appropriately in court.
I'm surprised that no one is commenting on what is happening in plain sight. Three ministers in the last 24 hours have made their opposition to no deal plain. Theresa May is going to have to allow a free vote next week or see a slew of resignations.
Meanwhile, so far as I am aware not a single MP has changed their position to back a deal since the vote last week. For all the talk about a change in the mood, there isn't any real evidence of it.
I don't think they will resign in large numbers. I think most of them will convince themselves that the final decision point has not been reached, and that sticking with May and her deal is not an inevitable drift to no deal (as it appears to be from the outside).
I'm surprised that no one is commenting on what is happening in plain sight. Three ministers in the last 24 hours have made their opposition to no deal plain. Theresa May is going to have to allow a free vote next week or see a slew of resignations.
Meanwhile, so far as I am aware not a single MP has changed their position to back a deal since the vote last week. For all the talk about a change in the mood, there isn't any real evidence of it.
Im more surprised that the impact of events in Scotland arent being discussed given this could completely change the nature of politics up there. But I suppose its not London so it doesnt count,
I'm guessing others, like me, don't want to cause OGH any legal problems.
I'll link back to something I wrote a while back which still has some relevance:
My understanding of a "plan" goes like this. The deal passes parliament with a no backstop amendment and a no No Deal amendment.
HMG goes to EU Commission: We have a deal. Thing is, no backstop. EUC: Piss off. HMG: OK, can we have an extension to A50 [no No Deal amendment] and we'll try to sort that out? EUC: OK
HMG returns to parliament: Guys, we're out of time and out of options. Are you going to let this through?
A great plan, except:
1) it looks unlikely that a "no backstop" amendment will pass and 2) it looks likely that a "no No Deal" amendment will pass.
In a way doesn't matter too much. The focus is getting the deal agreed in parliament in some form and with whatever amendments it takes. You can then deal with the issues later. The point is you have all but eliminated the alternatives.
The shutdown in the US is worth watching more closely: lots of wealthy, privileged members of the elite inflicting degrees of misery and inconvenience they will not experience on millions of ordinary people because a president sold a totally false prospectus to get elected and now will not admit it. That’ll be us in a few weeks time.
This evening’s Question Time was a perfect and depressing encapsulation of what Britain has become. A panel of semi-literate half-wits talking to a polarised audience who aren’t listening. The journey back from where we are is going to be long and very tough. I doubt we’ll make it.
It was a particularly bad panel. I had to turn it off, and I have a pretty high tolerance of ill informed people spouting garbage. Delingpole on TW was a classic too. We really are heading towards idiocracy.
Also found question time too tough to watch. I think Bruce is still figuring out how to keep the panel in check, at one point I thought Suella was going to make a 5m speech, and she allowed the Labour guy to completely waffle his way out of telling us what the Labour policy was. She'll get the hang of it with time though I guess.
We need the hardest of hard Brexits. No deal. Factories have to close. Big businesses have to move and the service industries have to set up elsewhere. The Harlepudlians have to understand that foreigners were not the root of their problems.
The ERGers must complete the takeover of the country and be allowed to quaff their champagne and gorge their canapes (little pastries with toppings*)- as planned on the 29th.
Then when the political pendulum moves enlightened forces can take back control and the renaissance can start. On a wave of popular support we can rejoin the EU accepting the euro Shengen and a European army and the Faragists can slink back to from whence they came never to be seen again
*For ERGers
The majority of the country wants neither No Deal Brexit or rejoin the EU and certainly not to then add on the Euro and Schengen, neither will ever have sufficient support in the country to be a sustainable way forward.
The only sustainable ways forward are May's Deal, and to a lesser extent stay in the single market and Customs Union but outside the full EU
So you are advocating a Labour Brexit. That's good to hear.
No I am advocating a May Brexit but even a Labour Brexit would be better than No Deal or Remain and then push to join the Euro
If we revoke A50, we keep all our opt outs including the Euro and Schengen. The EU army is neither something that we have to participate in, nor a threat, not least because it is undeployable in an offensive or expeditionary role due to the neutrality of several EU states.
I'm surprised that no one is commenting on what is happening in plain sight. Three ministers in the last 24 hours have made their opposition to no deal plain. Theresa May is going to have to allow a free vote next week or see a slew of resignations.
Meanwhile, so far as I am aware not a single MP has changed their position to back a deal since the vote last week. For all the talk about a change in the mood, there isn't any real evidence of it.
Im more surprised that the impact of events in Scotland arent being discussed given this could completely change the nature of politics up there. But I suppose its not London so it doesnt count,
It surely is of significance, and hard to see the SNP coming out smelling of roses whatever the verdict, but I am not keen on commenting until it has all been aired appropriately in court.
Im not suggesting commenting on the case = that is and should be off limits. Im more interested in the emerging cracks in the SNP edifice. Its quite clear Salmond still has a measure of personal support and Sturgeon is alienating it by her handling of her predecssor and her gradual efforts to push him to the sidelines. Im now thinking there may be an interparty bust up if this continues.
How Heidi can remain in the Tory Party is a mystery.
An observation not confined either to her, or the Tory party. The force of tribal loyalty is a very strong one, otherwise we'd have witnessed a realignment of British politics long ago.
The shutdown in the US is worth watching more closely: lots of wealthy, privileged members of the elite inflicting degrees of misery and inconvenience they will not experience on millions of ordinary people because a president sold a totally false prospectus to get elected and now will not admit it. That’ll be us in a few weeks time.
There is a Commons and Lords majority against no Deal Brexit, there is not yet a majority in the House and Senate to end the Government shutdown which Trump could agree with
This evening’s Question Time was a perfect and depressing encapsulation of what Britain has become. A panel of semi-literate half-wits talking to a polarised audience who aren’t listening. The journey back from where we are is going to be long and very tough. I doubt we’ll make it.
It was a particularly bad panel. I had to turn it off, and I have a pretty high tolerance of ill informed people spouting garbage. Delingpole on TW was a classic too. We really are heading towards idiocracy.
Also found question time too tough to watch. I think Bruce is still figuring out how to keep the panel in check, at one point I thought Suella was going to make a 5m speech, and she allowed the Labour guy to completely waffle his way out of telling us what the Labour policy was. She'll get the hang of it with time though I guess.
I was quite impressed with Bruce on her debut, but the last two programmes were awful. It may just be the rather overheated audience and dimwitted panellists in the current political environment, but Bruce was unwilling to contest even the most egregious bollocks.
We need the hardest of hard Brexits. No deal. Factories have to close. Big businesses have to move and the service industries have to set up elsewhere. The Harlepudlians have to understand that foreigners were not the root of their problems.
The ERGers must complete the takeover of the country and be allowed to quaff their champagne and gorge their canapes (little pastries with toppings*)- as planned on the 29th.
Then when the political pendulum moves enlightened forces can take back control and the renaissance can start. On a wave of popular support we can rejoin the EU accepting the euro Shengen and a European army and the Faragists can slink back to from whence they came never to be seen again
*For ERGers
The majority of the country wants neither No Deal Brexit or rejoin the EU and certainly not to then add on the Euro and Schengen, neither will ever have sufficient support in the country to be a sustainable way forward.
The only sustainable ways forward are May's Deal, and to a lesser extent stay in the single market and Customs Union but outside the full EU
So you are advocating a Labour Brexit. That's good to hear.
No I am advocating a May Brexit but even a Labour Brexit would be better than No Deal or Remain and then push to join the Euro
If we revoke A50, we keep all our opt outs including the Euro and Schengen. The EU army is neither something that we have to participate in, nor a threat, not least because it is undeployable in an offensive or expeditionary role due to the neutrality of several EU states.
Yes but we also revoke the Leave vote and concerns over sovereignty and free movement from the referendum, though I agree remaining in the EU on current terms better still than rejoininf with the Euro and Schengen
How Heidi can remain in the Tory Party is a mystery.
An observation not confined either to her, or the Tory party. The force of tribal loyalty is a very strong one, otherwise we'd have witnessed a realignment of British politics long ago.
How Kate Hoey can remain in the Labour Party is also a mystery
And the more they protest they better it is for Macron. Like Jeremy Corbyn, he is fortunate in his enemies.
depends how you view it. Hes had to unpick most of his key reforms, the protests are hitting economic growth and the cracks in society he says are in the UK are as nothing against the hardening fractures in France.
There is no-one coming close to looking like a credible challenger to him. France is highly likely to still exist in its current form in a decade’s time. We can’t say that so certainly about the UK. We are a deeply divided set of countries and regions. For all his troubles and his unpopulaity, Macron is right about Brexit - as your inability to counter his points makes clear.
The shutdown in the US is worth watching more closely: lots of wealthy, privileged members of the elite inflicting degrees of misery and inconvenience they will not experience on millions of ordinary people because a president sold a totally false prospectus to get elected and now will not admit it. That’ll be us in a few weeks time.
I'm surprised that no one is commenting on what is happening in plain sight. Three ministers in the last 24 hours have made their opposition to no deal plain. Theresa May is going to have to allow a free vote next week or see a slew of resignations.
Meanwhile, so far as I am aware not a single MP has changed their position to back a deal since the vote last week. For all the talk about a change in the mood, there isn't any real evidence of it.
The fog of war is thicker than ever.
I can’t see a People’s Vote unless Corbyn supports it. I can’t see a vote for the Deal sans backstop will he agreed by the EU.
We need the hardest of hard Brexits. No deal. Factories have to close. Big businesses have to move and the service industries have to set up elsewhere. The Harlepudlians have to understand that foreigners were not the root of their problems.
The ERGers must complete the takeover of the country and be allowed to quaff their champagne and gorge their canapes (little pastries with toppings*)- as planned on the 29th.
Then when the political pendulum moves enlightened forces can take back control and the renaissance can start. On a wave of popular support we can rejoin the EU accepting the euro Shengen and a European army and the Faragists can slink back to from whence they came never to be seen again
*For ERGers
The majority of the country wants neither No Deal Brexit or rejoin the EU and certainly not to then add on the Euro and Schengen, neither will ever have sufficient support in the country to be a sustainable way forward.
The only sustainable ways forward are May's Deal, and to a lesser extent stay in the single market and Customs Union but outside the full EU
So you are advocating a Labour Brexit. That's good to hear.
No I am advocating a May Brexit but even a Labour Brexit would be better than No Deal or Remain and then push to join the Euro
You said "stay in the single market and Customs Union but outside the full EU".
And the more they protest they better it is for Macron. Like Jeremy Corbyn, he is fortunate in his enemies.
depends how you view it. Hes had to unpick most of his key reforms, the protests are hitting economic growth and the cracks in society he says are in the UK are as nothing against the hardening fractures in France.
There is no-one coming close to looking like a credible challenger to him. France is highly likely to still exist in its current form in a decade’s time. We can’t say that so certainly about the UK. We are a deeply divided set of countries and regions. For all his troubles and his unpopulaity, Macron is right about Brexit - as your inability to counter his points makes clear.
The significance of events in Scotland is that Sindyref 2 may well be pushed further still into the future, and for the SNP to lose both MSPs and MPs at the next election. Where those voters go could be critical.
And the more they protest they better it is for Macron. Like Jeremy Corbyn, he is fortunate in his enemies.
depends how you view it. Hes had to unpick most of his key reforms, the protests are hitting economic growth and the cracks in society he says are in the UK are as nothing against the hardening fractures in France.
There is no-one coming close to looking like a credible challenger to him. France is highly likely to still exist in its current form in a decade’s time. We can’t say that so certainly about the UK. We are a deeply divided set of countries and regions. For all his troubles and his unpopulaity, Macron is right about Brexit - as your inability to counter his points makes clear.
the only thing keeping him going is the electoral system he lives off 20% of the vote. Unusually in a poll last week Marine LePen overtook him in popularity, first time Ive seen that. His problem now is he has recovered from previous lows on the promise of doing something, but has yet to deliver on that promise. Reading the list of what France wants he can only disappoint a large section of the population.
As for countering his points Ive done that many times over the years rerunning the endless Brexit arguments just drives us all bonkers. Nobody is changing their mind, nobody is convincing anyone else and nobody believes what the other side says. Best to just smile sweetly and talk about something interesting.
And the more they protest they better it is for Macron. Like Jeremy Corbyn, he is fortunate in his enemies.
depends how you view it. Hes had to unpick most of his key reforms, the protests are hitting economic growth and the cracks in society he says are in the UK are as nothing against the hardening fractures in France.
There is no-one coming close to looking like a credible challenger to him. France is highly likely to still exist in its current form in a decade’s time. We can’t say that so certainly about the UK. We are a deeply divided set of countries and regions. For all his troubles and his unpopulaity, Macron is right about Brexit - as your inability to counter his points makes clear.
The significance of events in Scotland is that Sindyref 2 may well be pushed further still into the future, and for the SNP to lose both MSPs and MPs at the next election. Where those voters go could be critical.
If examples elsewhere are anything to go by voters are very tolerant of a hell of a lot these days if the alternatives are regarded as even worse.
We need the hardest of hard Brexits. No deal. Factories have to close. Big businesses have to move and the service industries have to set up elsewhere. The Harlepudlians have to understand that foreigners were not the root of their problems.
The ERGers must complete the takeover of the country and be allowed to quaff their champagne and gorge their canapes (little pastries with toppings*)- as planned on the 29th.
Then when the political pendulum moves enlightened forces can take back control and the renaissance can start. On a wave of popular support we can rejoin the EU accepting the euro Shengen and a European army and the Faragists can slink back to from whence they came never to be seen again
*For ERGers
The majority of the country wants neither No Deal Brexit or rejoin the EU and certainly not to then add on the Euro and Schengen, neither will ever have sufficient support in the country to be a sustainable way forward.
The only sustainable ways forward are May's Deal, and to a lesser extent stay in the single market and Customs Union but outside the full EU
So you are advocating a Labour Brexit. That's good to hear.
No I am advocating a May Brexit but even a Labour Brexit would be better than No Deal or Remain and then push to join the Euro
If we revoke A50, we keep all our opt outs including the Euro and Schengen. The EU army is neither something that we have to participate in, nor a threat, not least because it is undeployable in an offensive or expeditionary role due to the neutrality of several EU states.
Yes but we also revoke the Leave vote and concerns over sovereignty and free movement from the referendum, though I agree remaining in the EU on current terms better still than rejoininf with the Euro and Schengen
Au contraire. Full-fat EU membership, with the benefits of Schengen and the Euro, would be a much better position than the current 1% fat orange-label version.
I can't see either the Ireland or the EU having any incentive to soften their demands on the Irish backstop.
Ireland because to do so is to concede on their main requirement of a soft border. Even though No Deal achieves the same effect and comes with additional nasties, in that case you have the [very high probability] prospect of sorting things out later while keeping the backstop. Conceding now cements the bad result.
Ireland psychologically and politicallly: No-one in Ireland voted for Brexit. No-one wants it. It is something imposed on them by a foreign government that from remarks made by its leaders doesn't wish Ireland well. Will people in Ireland blame Varadakar for not giving in to British aggression so they end up in No Deal? Unlikely.
EU: to concede over the backstop is to prioritise a non-member over a member.The EU won't survive as an institution if it does that. It's also the reason why other member states will back Ireland when push comes to shove.
How Heidi can remain in the Tory Party is a mystery.
An observation not confined either to her, or the Tory party. The force of tribal loyalty is a very strong one, otherwise we'd have witnessed a realignment of British politics long ago.
How Kate Hoey can remain in the Labour Party is also a mystery
I'm surprised that no one is commenting on what is happening in plain sight. Three ministers in the last 24 hours have made their opposition to no deal plain. Theresa May is going to have to allow a free vote next week or see a slew of resignations.
Meanwhile, so far as I am aware not a single MP has changed their position to back a deal since the vote last week. For all the talk about a change in the mood, there isn't any real evidence of it.
The fog of war is thicker than ever.
I can’t see a People’s Vote unless Corbyn supports it. I can’t see a vote for the Deal sans backstop will he agreed by the EU.
Things are going to get more chaotic before there is a resolution. The question that you have to ask yourself is: what direction will MPs jump when they are in a blind panic?
Looks like someone had a word with him afterwards, or wrestled his phone off him. https://twitter.com/PeterWelch/status/1087857790901735426 I know deleting tweets won't prevent the story doing the rounds, but maybe its worth doing and just leaving up the apology?
Interesting that Marc Lamont Hill posted the original tweet and his comment TWO DAY AFTER it was withdrawn with apologies. He’s clearly a muck raking shit stirrer
Someone posted this as a reply to the original tweet. Never seen it visualised like this before. Kinda depressing!
Although it's not as good as the F22 and the wings are too small
Too small for what? What could it do with more wing that it can't do now?
I was a bit puzzled by that. It can already fly, can't it ?
It's biggest restriction seems to be payload - to the extent that the US is contemplating flying arsenals to support it.
F-35 met (or exceeded in non-LO configs) all the program requirements for payload. The area where is struggled to meet the specification was always weight. The slimming program was the source of almost all of the delay.
As for countering his points Ive done that many times over the years rerunning the endless Brexit arguments just drives us all bonkers. Nobody is changing their mind, nobody is convincing anyone else and nobody believes what the other side says. Best to just smile sweetly and talk about something interesting.
Yes, this is a great forum, I really like it, but does anybody ever change their mind about anything at all, let alone Brexit, as a result of the interchange? You'd have thought they would, but it does not seem so. Or perhaps they do, secretly, but it is somehow a shameful thing to admit it.
Any case, OK, something interesting. The Queen has come out for Norway Plus. That surely fits the bill. That is incredibly interesting. Will it swing any votes on Tuesday in the House of Commons though? It ought to. MPs serve at her pleasure after all. Or do they? Is that just prisoners?
I can't see either the Ireland or the EU having any incentive to soften their demands on the Irish backstop.
Ireland because to do so is to concede on their main requirement of a soft border. Even though No Deal achieves the same effect and comes with additional nasties, in that case you have the [very high probability] prospect of sorting things out later while keeping the backstop. Conceding now cements the bad result.
Ireland psychologically and politicallly: No-one in Ireland voted for Brexit. No-one wants it. It is something imposed on them by a foreign government that from remarks made by its leaders doesn't wish Ireland well. Will people in Ireland blame Varadakar for not giving in to British aggression so they end up in No Deal? Unlikely.
EU: to concede over the backstop is to prioritise a non-member over a member.The EU won't survive as an institution if it does that. It's also the reason why other member states will back Ireland when push comes to shove.
Philip Hanmond, dreary and cack-handed as he may be, is about the *only* MP in government, and maybe in Parliament, who has kept his reputation intact.
Folks, the CHANCELLOR will not deny he may resign.
Comments
Repudiating a Deal just signed is not the way for us to regain our reputation for trustworthiness and competence, yet those are the basis for all rest of the world negotiations.
Who'd run the Brexit B&B, eh?
I'll get my coat...
Have a good morning.
A man who always wanted to leave the EU doesn't want to help stop us leave the EU?
You'll be telling me he's negative about visiting a butcher's shop next.
Will Corbyn move to find common ground, or will he continue to play politics and the blame game..
The ERGers must complete the takeover of the country and be allowed to quaff their champagne and gorge their canapes (little pastries with toppings*)- as planned on the 29th.
Then when the political pendulum moves enlightened forces can take back control and the renaissance can start. On a wave of popular support we can rejoin the EU accepting the euro Shengen and a European army and the Faragists can slink back to from whence they came never to be seen again
*For ERGers
will you move to Hatlepool to acquire wisdom ?
the bloke who cant walk safely down his own streets gives lectures on social cohesion
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6629779/French-president-Macron-BLASTS-Brexit-saying-UKs-bid-leave-Europe-delivered.html
F e a r f a c t o r
Well, are we voting for Eevee’s amendment or not, asks McD.
Remind me again what could go wrong, asks Jez. Will I lose more credibility. Will I be handing that [silly goose] of a prime minister something to mercilessly beat me with like 2018 groundhog day all over again, will I lose all my voters.
We honestly haven’t a clue, honestly answers Nick (Brown)
Well I ain’t supporting it then am I, irascibly answers Jez.
wherever they hang their hats thats their home
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeremy-corbyn-vegetarian-considering-going-vegan-a7929821.html
'It's rubbish!' French president Macron BLASTS Brexit saying UK's bid to leave Europe 'can't be delivered' and had 'torn society apart'.
Where on earth does he get that idea!!
he just plucks things out of his arse and says them
On the other hand, he appears to be using all the influence of France to ensure it is as bad as he asserts.
The only sustainable ways forward are May's Deal, and to a lesser extent stay in the single market and Customs Union but outside the full EU
https://opaque.link/post/dropgang/
Looking even further into the future, it seems plausible that the whole urban environment might find itself integrated into a dynamic landscape of very short-lived dead drops that are serviced by humans and cheap drones (unmanned aerial vehicles), which are already cheaply available and likely only require one market actor to develop and spread a mechanism to pick up and drop goods. Both merchant and customer could use drones, that are available for rent through dedicated Apps, to deliver product to a meeting point on a roof, where another drone would pick it up. Chaining multiple exchanges like this will make the tracing of the delivery extremely hard, essentially leading to mixing techniques so far used only in anonymizing digital communication.
Given the additional plausible development that long distance, high payload drones become available more widely, and for much less cost, the procurement layer of Dropgangs will also become more secure and efficient.
It is far from unlikely that these developments will lead to a breakdown of control and regulation over low weight, low volume goods. The black markets are upon us.
Continue thinking, what is possible if we combine: 4G/5G mobile internet, anonymous messaging, messaging bots, anonymous and untraceable digital currencies, strong end-to-end encryption, GPS, cheap electronics, 3D printed mechanics, cheap drones - both short distance multicopters and long distance fixed wing, visual processing for navigation, and lots of code.
What is possible if others combine these as well?
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jan/24/ive-absolutely-had-enough-tory-mp-embarks-on-anti-austerity-tour
full programme of demos once again this weekend by the gilets jaunes
http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2019/01/24/01016-20190124ARTFIG00174-gilets-jaunes-foulards-rouges-climat-le-programme-des-manifestations-de-ce-week-end.php
hes accused of meeting handpicked audiences in the frennch press , maybe not so different from TM after all.
Meanwhile, so far as I am aware not a single MP has changed their position to back a deal since the vote last week. For all the talk about a change in the mood, there isn't any real evidence of it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46995694
I don't trust the EU. It's one of the main reasons I voted to leave.
HMG goes to EU Commission: We have a deal. Thing is, no backstop.
EUC: Piss off.
HMG: OK, can we have an extension to A50 [no No Deal amendment] and we'll try to sort that out?
EUC: OK
HMG returns to parliament: Guys, we're out of time and out of options. Are you going to let this through?
1) it looks unlikely that a "no backstop" amendment will pass and
2) it looks likely that a "no No Deal" amendment will pass.
I'll link back to something I wrote a while back which still has some relevance:
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/09/01/the-affairs-of-state-how-the-personal-can-become-very-political-indeed/
https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCNormanS/status/1088713642214940673
The force of tribal loyalty is a very strong one, otherwise we'd have witnessed a realignment of British politics long ago.
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/24/ross-government-shutdown-food-banks-1122842
It's biggest restriction seems to be payload - to the extent that the US is contemplating flying arsenals to support it.
I can’t see a People’s Vote unless Corbyn supports it. I can’t see a vote for the Deal sans backstop will he agreed by the EU.
Sounds like Labour policy to me.
As for countering his points Ive done that many times over the years rerunning the endless Brexit arguments just drives us all bonkers. Nobody is changing their mind, nobody is convincing anyone else and nobody believes what the other side says. Best to just smile sweetly and talk about something interesting.
Edit: actually Leo Varadkar might just top that.
Ireland because to do so is to concede on their main requirement of a soft border. Even though No Deal achieves the same effect and comes with additional nasties, in that case you have the [very high probability] prospect of sorting things out later while keeping the backstop. Conceding now cements the bad result.
Ireland psychologically and politicallly: No-one in Ireland voted for Brexit. No-one wants it. It is something imposed on them by a foreign government that from remarks made by its leaders doesn't wish Ireland well. Will people in Ireland blame Varadakar for not giving in to British aggression so they end up in No Deal? Unlikely.
EU: to concede over the backstop is to prioritise a non-member over a member.The EU won't survive as an institution if it does that. It's also the reason why other member states will back Ireland when push comes to shove.
https://mobile.twitter.com/0_oBrB/status/1088447956783718401
Any case, OK, something interesting. The Queen has come out for Norway Plus. That surely fits the bill. That is incredibly interesting. Will it swing any votes on Tuesday in the House of Commons though? It ought to. MPs serve at her pleasure after all. Or do they? Is that just prisoners?
https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article187677888/WEF-in-Davos-Peter-Altmaier-will-Briten-beim-Brexit-mehr-Zeit-geben.html
Folks, the CHANCELLOR will not deny he may resign.
Edit: And Ed's watch is on Swiss time - interview on now!