Thank you for the kind word - I thought through this on my home from work but I keep thinking I'm missing something.
The one other factor might be the EU and the degree to which they are willing to prevent a No Deal. if we get down to close to the wire, the EU may seek to extend A50 and it may be the WA isn't as non-negotiable as we might think.
If the EU blinks, it's possible May can get enough concession to make the WA acceptable to either the "tack hard" or "tack soft" camp. I wonder which way she'll go.
If she gets a clear indication next week of parliaments direction of travel I have little doubt the EU will get serious
Clear? From Parliament?! I mean, really.
It is just possible - lets see
And why would the EU not have been serious before when May has presumably been telling them for months that she needs changes to get this through? They just keep getting angrier that she is saying the same thing.
As for wait and see, she has used up the reasonable allotment of giving her the benefit of the doubt.
They are looking down the barrel of no deal in 7 weeks
So are we, and they are better prepared than us, and they have to face the politics of it as well, and we have far more people in authority scared stiff by no deal (rightly or not) than they do.
You're basically adopting the no deal brexiteer strategy of all we have to do is talk tough, and we will get what we want just because.
No - brexiteers are a very real risk to our economy. I am coming from the view that TM has a WDA deal and with a few tweeks sensible mps will pass it
The EU, and May, have been saying for months it will not be tweaked. Unless the EU have been lying this entire time, and we will have to hope they were, chasing after this unicorn at the risk of no deal is no different to the no dealers and the ultra remainers.
Something has to give in the next few weeks and I expect the deal or similar to pass
But in fairness, there are other views and I should caveat mine with IMHO
Seeing as he is charged under a 2009 act it is reasonable to assume that some of these charges maybe at a date of when he was actually First Minister of Scotland.
I am more confident that a deal will be done as no deal becomes stark reality
For my own sanity I have to believe in a deal, no deal is unimaginable
Given your apparent vintage, I'm surprised you can consider anything "unimaginable". Anything and everything is imaginable and possible given the right or wrong circumstances. We could very easily be sitting here in seven weeks counting down the hours until we exit with No Deal.
The inability of the Government to make adequate and proper contingency plans for No Deal is the aspect that annoys me far more than the parliamentary shenanigans. Any project and I mean any project has to consider all possible risks and put in place mitigating measures to counter the adverse impacts.
When the project to leave the EU was started, I cannot believe somebody didn't ask "what if there's No Deal?". If it comes out the Civil Service were instructed NOT to plan for No Deal, I would hold May and her Government in complete contempt - their negligence would be appalling.
I am therefore forced to believe there are contingency plans in place but clearly the political dimension (Project Fear) means the illusion of ill-preparedness is being weaponised in order to get the WDA accepted and through parliament in time.
The problem with bluffing is when your opponent sees through your bluff and calls or raises. If you want them to believe you are sitting with a full house and you have a pair of twos then you have to hope you can bluff well. The problem is the reputation of Project Fear was undermined by the lack of impact of the 2016 referendum result and indeed some would argue the devaluation of sterling was actually an economic positive (much as those who argue the same thing happening in September 1992 was a benefit despite the political disaster it inflicted on John Major).
Thank you for the kind word - I thought through this on my home from work but I keep thinking I'm missing something.
The one other factor might be the EU and the degree to which they are willing to prevent a No Deal. if we get down to close to the wire, the EU may seek to extend A50 and it may be the WA isn't as non-negotiable as we might think.
If the EU blinks, it's possible May can get enough concession to make the WA acceptable to either the "tack hard" or "tack soft" camp. I wonder which way she'll go.
If she gets a clear indication next week of parliaments direction of travel I have little doubt the EU will get serious
Clear? From Parliament?! I mean, really.
It is just possible - lets see
And why would the EU not have been serious before when May has presumably been telling them for months that she needs changes to get this through? They just keep getting angrier that she is saying the same thing.
As for wait and see, she has used up the reasonable allotment of giving her the benefit of the doubt.
They are looking down the barrel of no deal in 7 weeks
How can they do that when the muzzle is in our mouth?
Thank you for the kind word - I thought through this on my home from work but I keep thinking I'm missing something.
The one other factor might be the EU and the degree to which they are willing to prevent a No Deal. if we get down to close to the wire, the EU may seek to extend A50 and it may be the WA isn't as non-negotiable as we might think.
If the EU blinks, it's possible May can get enough concession to make the WA acceptable to either the "tack hard" or "tack soft" camp. I wonder which way she'll go.
If she gets a clear indication next week of parliaments direction of travel I have little doubt the EU will get serious
Clear? From Parliament?! I mean, really.
It is just possible - lets see
And why would the EU not have been serious before when May has presumably been telling them for months that she needs changes to get this through? They just keep getting angrier that she is saying the same thing.
As for wait and see, she has used up the reasonable allotment of giving her the benefit of the doubt.
They are looking down the barrel of no deal in 7 weeks
So are we, and they are better prepared than us, and they have to face the politics of it as well, and we have far more people in authority scared stiff by no deal (rightly or not) than they do.
You're basically adopting the no deal brexiteer strategy of all we have to do is talk tough, and we will get what we want just because.
No - brexiteers are a very real risk to our economy. I am coming from the view that TM has a WDA deal and with a few tweeks sensible mps will pass it
The EU, and May, have been saying for months it will not be tweaked. Unless the EU have been lying this entire time, and we will have to hope they were, chasing after this unicorn at the risk of no deal is no different to the no dealers and the ultra remainers.
Something has to give in the next few weeks and I expect the deal or similar to pass
But in fairness, there are other views and I should caveat mine with IMHO
To me, leaving on time looks good value still. It covers both Deal and no Deal, Personally, I think the latter more likely as we have set the controls for the heart of the sun.
I am more confident that a deal will be done as no deal becomes stark reality
For my own sanity I have to believe in a deal, no deal is unimaginable
Given your apparent vintage, I'm surprised you can consider anything "unimaginable". Anything and everything is imaginable and possible given the right or wrong circumstances. We could very easily be sitting here in seven weeks counting down the hours until we exit with No Deal.
The inability of the Government to make adequate and proper contingency plans for No Deal is the aspect that annoys me far more than the parliamentary shenanigans. Any project and I mean any project has to consider all possible risks and put in place mitigating measures to counter the adverse impacts.
When the project to leave the EU was started, I cannot believe somebody didn't ask "what if there's No Deal?". If it comes out the Civil Service were instructed NOT to plan for No Deal, I would hold May and her Government in complete contempt - their negligence would be appalling.
I am therefore forced to believe there are contingency plans in place but clearly the political dimension (Project Fear) means the illusion of ill-preparedness is being weaponised in order to get the WDA accepted and through parliament in time.
The problem with bluffing is when your opponent sees through your bluff and calls or raises. If you want them to believe you are sitting with a full house and you have a pair of twos then you have to hope you can bluff well. The problem is the reputation of Project Fear was undermined by the lack of impact of the 2016 referendum result and indeed some would argue the devaluation of sterling was actually an economic positive (much as those who argue the same thing happening in September 1992 was a benefit despite the political disaster it inflicted on John Major).
Thank you for the kind word - I thought through this on my home from work but I keep thinking I'm missing something.
The one other factor might be the EU and the degree to which they are willing to prevent a No Deal. if we get down to close to the wire, the EU may seek to extend A50 and it may be the WA isn't as non-negotiable as we might think.
If the EU blinks, it's possible May can get enough concession to make the WA acceptable to either the "tack hard" or "tack soft" camp. I wonder which way she'll go.
If she gets a clear indication next week of parliaments direction of travel I have little doubt the EU will get serious
Clear? From Parliament?! I mean, really.
It is just possible - lets see
And why would the EU not have been serious before when May has presumably been telling them for months that she needs changes to get this through? They just keep getting angrier that she is saying the same thing.
As for wait and see, she has used up the reasonable allotment of giving her the benefit of the doubt.
They are looking down the barrel of no deal in 7 weeks
How can they do that when the muzzle is in our mouth?
I suppose you can look down the barrel from two directions.
I was listening to a report from Davos today when it was stated that no deal will not just damage the UK and the EU but will have huge implications across the world
Thank you for the kind word - I thought through this on my home from work but I keep thinking I'm missing something.
The one other factor might be the EU and the degree to which they are willing to prevent a No Deal. if we get down to close to the wire, the EU may seek to extend A50 and it may be the WA isn't as non-negotiable as we might think.
If the EU blinks, it's possible May can get enough concession to make the WA acceptable to either the "tack hard" or "tack soft" camp. I wonder which way she'll go.
If she gets a clear indication next week of parliaments direction of travel I have little doubt the EU will get serious
Clear? From Parliament?! I mean, really.
It is just possible - lets see
And why would the EU not have been serious before when May has presumably been telling them for months that she needs changes to get this through? They just keep getting angrier that she is saying the same thing.
As for wait and see, she has used up the reasonable allotment of giving her the benefit of the doubt.
They are looking down the barrel of no deal in 7 weeks
How can they do that when the muzzle is in our mouth?
I suppose you can look down the barrel from two directions.
I am sure that the EU are dreading all those Airbus jobs moving there....
Thank you for the kind word - I thought through this on my home from work but I keep thinking I'm missing something.
The one other factor might be the EU and the degree to which they are willing to prevent a No Deal. if we get down to close to the wire, the EU may seek to extend A50 and it may be the WA isn't as non-negotiable as we might think.
If the EU blinks, it's possible May can get enough concession to make the WA acceptable to either the "tack hard" or "tack soft" camp. I wonder which way she'll go.
If she gets a clear indication next week of parliaments direction of travel I have little doubt the EU will get serious
Clear? From Parliament?! I mean, really.
It is just possible - lets see
And why would the EU not have been serious before when May has presumably been telling them for months that she needs changes to get this through? They just keep getting angrier that she is saying the same thing.
As for wait and see, she has used up the reasonable allotment of giving her the benefit of the doubt.
They are looking down the barrel of no deal in 7 weeks
How can they do that when the muzzle is in our mouth?
I suppose you can look down the barrel from two directions.
I am sure that the EU are dreading all those Airbus jobs moving there....
The existing contracts are safe but the danger is to the new generation of wings
I was listening to a report from Davos today when it was stated that no deal will not just damage the UK and the EU but will have huge implications across the world
We do lose our trade deals that go via the EU arrangements, so it does have worldwide implications, but outside our corner of the smallest continent, those will be transient.
It is the difference between the egg and the bacon at breakfast. The chicken is involved, but the pig is committed.
Thank you for the kind word - I thought through this on my home from work but I keep thinking I'm missing something.
The one other factor might be the EU and the degree to which they are willing to prevent a No Deal. if we get down to close to the wire, the EU may seek to extend A50 and it may be the WA isn't as non-negotiable as we might think.
If the EU blinks, it's possible May can get enough concession to make the WA acceptable to either the "tack hard" or "tack soft" camp. I wonder which way she'll go.
If she gets a clear indication next week of parliaments direction of travel I have little doubt the EU will get serious
Clear? From Parliament?! I mean, really.
It is just possible - lets see
And why would the EU not have been serious before when May has presumably been telling them for months that she needs changes to get this through? They just keep getting angrier that she is saying the same thing.
As for wait and see, she has used up the reasonable allotment of giving her the benefit of the doubt.
They are looking down the barrel of no deal in 7 weeks
How can they do that when the muzzle is in our mouth?
I suppose you can look down the barrel from two directions.
Panic is clearly now setting in that No Deal is upon us, and rightly so. Presumably a few simple souls are still taking refuse in Rees-Mogg’s crock-of-gold tomfoolery. They shouldn’t. He will vanish like early snow.
Thank you for the kind word - I thought through this on my home from work but I keep thinking I'm missing something.
The one other factor might be the EU and the degree to which they are willing to prevent a No Deal. if we get down to close to the wire, the EU may seek to extend A50 and it may be the WA isn't as non-negotiable as we might think.
If the EU blinks, it's possible May can get enough concession to make the WA acceptable to either the "tack hard" or "tack soft" camp. I wonder which way she'll go.
If she gets a clear indication next week of parliaments direction of travel I have little doubt the EU will get serious
Clear? From Parliament?! I mean, really.
It is just possible - lets see
And why would the EU not have been serious before when May has presumably been telling them for months that she needs changes to get this through? They just keep getting angrier that she is saying the same thing.
As for wait and see, she has used up the reasonable allotment of giving her the benefit of the doubt.
They are looking down the barrel of no deal in 7 weeks
How can they do that when the muzzle is in our mouth?
I suppose you can look down the barrel from two directions.
I am sure that the EU are dreading all those Airbus jobs moving there....
The existing contracts are safe but the danger is to the new generation of wings
Frankly, any form of Brexit and those jobs days are numbered, but no-one can say that they were not warned.
I was listening to a report from Davos today when it was stated that no deal will not just damage the UK and the EU but will have huge implications across the world
Given that the UK can avoid no deal at the stroke of a pen by revoking Article 50, just how much pressure do you think Theresa May will therefore come under to do just that?
I was listening to a report from Davos today when it was stated that no deal will not just damage the UK and the EU but will have huge implications across the world
Given that the UK can avoid no deal at the stroke of a pen by revoking Article 50, just how much pressure do you think Theresa May will therefore come under to do just that?
A lot, depending on if the remainers who are pretending to want to just delay get their way first. If we don't delay, then the pressure for revocation becomes much much stronger.
I was listening to a report from Davos today when it was stated that no deal will not just damage the UK and the EU but will have huge implications across the world
Given that the UK can avoid no deal at the stroke of a pen by revoking Article 50, just how much pressure do you think Theresa May will therefore come under to do just that?
Yeah, but we know that she is a very poor listener.
Thank you for the kind word - I thought through this on my home from work but I keep thinking I'm missing something.
The one other factor might be the EU and the degree to which they are willing to prevent a No Deal. if we get down to close to the wire, the EU may seek to extend A50 and it may be the WA isn't as non-negotiable as we might think.
If the EU blinks, it's possible May can get enough concession to make the WA acceptable to either the "tack hard" or "tack soft" camp. I wonder which way she'll go.
If she gets a clear indication next week of parliaments direction of travel I have little doubt the EU will get serious
Clear? From Parliament?! I mean, really.
It is just possible - lets see
And why would the EU not have been serious before when May has presumably been telling them for months that she needs changes to get this through? They just keep getting angrier that she is saying the same thing.
As for wait and see, she has used up the reasonable allotment of giving her the benefit of the doubt.
They are looking down the barrel of no deal in 7 weeks
How can they do that when the muzzle is in our mouth?
I suppose you can look down the barrel from two directions.
I am sure that the EU are dreading all those Airbus jobs moving there....
The existing contracts are safe but the danger is to the new generation of wings
Frankly, any form of Brexit and those jobs days are numbered, but no-one can say that they were not warned.
It will be many years but investment in new tech will stop in time
I was listening to a report from Davos today when it was stated that no deal will not just damage the UK and the EU but will have huge implications across the world
Given that the UK can avoid no deal at the stroke of a pen by revoking Article 50, just how much pressure do you think Theresa May will therefore come under to do just that?
Thank you for the kind word - I thought through this on my home from work but I keep thinking I'm missing something.
The one other factor might be the EU and the degree to which they are willing to prevent a No Deal. if we get down to close to the wire, the EU may seek to extend A50 and it may be the WA isn't as non-negotiable as we might think.
If the EU blinks, it's possible May can get enough concession to make the WA acceptable to either the "tack hard" or "tack soft" camp. I wonder which way she'll go.
If she gets a clear indication next week of parliaments direction of travel I have little doubt the EU will get serious
Clear? From Parliament?! I mean, really.
It is just possible - lets see
And why would the EU not have been serious before when May has presumably been telling them for months that she needs changes to get this through? They just keep getting angrier that she is saying the same thing.
As for wait and see, she has used up the reasonable allotment of giving her the benefit of the doubt.
They are looking down the barrel of no deal in 7 weeks
How can they do that when the muzzle is in our mouth?
I suppose you can look down the barrel from two directions.
I am sure that the EU are dreading all those Airbus jobs moving there....
The existing contracts are safe but the danger is to the new generation of wings
Frankly, any form of Brexit and those jobs days are numbered, but no-one can say that they were not warned.
Ah, but people will. Even on here just the other day people were disputing whether people were voting to leave the EU or just against Cameron's deal, even though the question in that regard was very clear, and of course leavers and remainers are often insisting certain things were not said which were, or that people did not know certain things despite being told them by those same people last time.
Thank you for the kind word - I thought through this on my home from work but I keep thinking I'm missing something.
The one other factor might be the EU and the degree to which they are willing to prevent a No Deal. if we get down to close to the wire, the EU may seek to extend A50 and it may be the WA isn't as non-negotiable as we might think.
If the EU blinks, it's possible May can get enough concession to make the WA acceptable to either the "tack hard" or "tack soft" camp. I wonder which way she'll go.
If she gets a clear indication next week of parliaments direction of travel I have little doubt the EU will get serious
Clear? From Parliament?! I mean, really.
It is just possible - lets see
And why would the EU not have been serious before when May has presumably been telling them for months that she needs changes to get this through? They just keep getting angrier that she is saying the same thing.
As for wait and see, she has used up the reasonable allotment of giving her the benefit of the doubt.
They are looking down the barrel of no deal in 7 weeks
How can they do that when the muzzle is in our mouth?
I suppose you can look down the barrel from two directions.
I am sure that the EU are dreading all those Airbus jobs moving there....
The existing contracts are safe but the danger is to the new generation of wings
Frankly, any form of Brexit and those jobs days are numbered, but no-one can say that they were not warned.
It will be many years but investment in new tech will stop in time
Yes, I have always said that Brexit will happen with a whimper not a bang.
Thank you for the kind word - I thought through this on my home from work but I keep thinking I'm missing something.
The one other factor might be the EU and the degree to which they are willing to prevent a No Deal. if we get down to close to the wire, the EU may seek to extend A50 and it may be the WA isn't as non-negotiable as we might think.
If the EU blinks, it's possible May can get enough concession to make the WA acceptable to either the "tack hard" or "tack soft" camp. I wonder which way she'll go.
If she gets a clear indication next week of parliaments direction of travel I have little doubt the EU will get serious
Clear? From Parliament?! I mean, really.
It is just possible - lets see
And why would the EU not have been serious before when May has presumably been telling them for months that she needs changes to get this through? They just keep getting angrier that she is saying the same thing.
As for wait and see, she has used up the reasonable allotment of giving her the benefit of the doubt.
They are looking down the barrel of no deal in 7 weeks
How can they do that when the muzzle is in our mouth?
I suppose you can look down the barrel from two directions.
I am sure that the EU are dreading all those Airbus jobs moving there....
The existing contracts are safe but the danger is to the new generation of wings
Frankly, any form of Brexit and those jobs days are numbered, but no-one can say that they were not warned.
It will be many years but investment in new tech will stop in time
Except there will be new new-tech. Investment in new stuff will never stop so long as there's new stuff, and there will always be new stuff in part because some of the new stuff is simply a ripoff of old stuff.
Thank you for the kind word - I thought through this on my home from work but I keep thinking I'm missing something.
The one other factor might be the EU and the degree to which they are willing to prevent a No Deal. if we get down to close to the wire, the EU may seek to extend A50 and it may be the WA isn't as non-negotiable as we might think.
If the EU blinks, it's possible May can get enough concession to make the WA acceptable to either the "tack hard" or "tack soft" camp. I wonder which way she'll go.
If she gets a clear indication next week of parliaments direction of travel I have little doubt the EU will get serious
Clear? From Parliament?! I mean, really.
It is just possible - lets see
And why would the EU not have been serious before when May has presumably been telling them for months that she needs changes to get this through? They just keep getting angrier that she is saying the same thing.
As for wait and see, she has used up the reasonable allotment of giving her the benefit of the doubt.
They are looking down the barrel of no deal in 7 weeks
How can they do that when the muzzle is in our mouth?
I suppose you can look down the barrel from two directions.
I am sure that the EU are dreading all those Airbus jobs moving there....
The existing contracts are safe but the danger is to the new generation of wings
Frankly, any form of Brexit and those jobs days are numbered, but no-one can say that they were not warned.
It will be many years but investment in new tech will stop in time
Except there will be new new-tech. Investment in new stuff will never stop so long as there's new stuff, and there will always be new stuff in part because some of the new stuff is simply a ripoff of old stuff.
Of course, but the question is over geography rather than engineering advances.
Thank you for the kind word - I thought through this on my home from work but I keep thinking I'm missing something.
The one other factor might be the EU and the degree to which they are willing to prevent a No Deal. if we get down to close to the wire, the EU may seek to extend A50 and it may be the WA isn't as non-negotiable as we might think.
If the EU blinks, it's possible May can get enough concession to make the WA acceptable to either the "tack hard" or "tack soft" camp. I wonder which way she'll go.
If she gets a clear indication next week of parliaments direction of travel I have little doubt the EU will get serious
Clear? From Parliament?! I mean, really.
It is just possible - lets see
And why would the EU not have been serious before when May has presumably been telling them for months that she needs changes to get this through? They just keep getting angrier that she is saying the same thing.
As for wait and see, she has used up the reasonable allotment of giving her the benefit of the doubt.
They are looking down the barrel of no deal in 7 weeks
How can they do that when the muzzle is in our mouth?
I suppose you can look down the barrel from two directions.
I am sure that the EU are dreading all those Airbus jobs moving there....
The existing contracts are safe but the danger is to the new generation of wings
Frankly, any form of Brexit and those jobs days are numbered, but no-one can say that they were not warned.
It will be many years but investment in new tech will stop in time
Except there will be new new-tech. Investment in new stuff will never stop so long as there's new stuff, and there will always be new stuff in part because some of the new stuff is simply a ripoff of old stuff.
Did he say he was converted by talking to his patients?
In Soviet Russia the only place to speak freely was in the Gulags. In US fundamentalist circles, the place for gays to meet up is at conversion therapy group.
If the EU blinks, it's possible May can get enough concession to make the WA acceptable to either the "tack hard" or "tack soft" camp. I wonder which way she'll go.
If she gets a clear indication next week of parliaments direction of travel I have little doubt the EU will get serious
Clear? From Parliament?! I mean, really.
It is just possible - lets see
And why would the EU not have been serious before when May has presumably been telling them for months that she needs changes to get this through?
They are looking down the barrel of no deal in 7 weeks
How can they do that when the muzzle is in our mouth?
I suppose you can look down the barrel from two directions.
I am sure that the EU are dreading all those Airbus jobs moving there....
The existing contracts are safe but the danger is to the new generation of wings
Frankly, any form of Brexit and those jobs days are numbered, but no-one can say that they were not warned.
Ah, but people will. Even on here just the other day people were disputing whether people were voting to leave the EU or just against Cameron's deal, even though the question in that regard was very clear, and of course leavers and remainers are often insisting certain things were not said which were, or that people did not know certain things despite being told them by those same people last time.
Yes! I, dots, was the one saying some leave vote was protest against Cameron and Osborne, and their secretive negotiation (to this day do we know what Camerons red lines were?) because I genuinely don’t believe Mogg speaks for 17.4 million leave votes, that the definition of Brexit in the minds of those 17.4 million when they cast their votes is same as what goes on between Bernard Jenkins ears, which is the brexit we are getting in a few weeks time.
So correct where I am wrong, if I am misreading this, project fear, condemned by Brexiteers as laughable, is now being used to swing country behind May’s “imperfect” deal, with brexiteers who have gone over to the imperfect deal saying we should heed these fearful warnings because they are real... and all this is being done in the name of restoring trust and faith in politics?
I sometimes wonder if the not-secretly gay homophobes get really annoyed by such cases, as everyone will assume they are also secretly gay, when perhaps they are just arseholes.
Thank you for the kind word - I thought through this on my home from work but I keep thinking I'm missing something.
The one other factor might be the EU and the degree to which they are willing to prevent a No Deal. if we get down to close to the wire, the EU may seek to extend A50 and it may be the WA isn't as non-negotiable as we might think.
If the EU blinks, it's possible May can get enough concession to make the WA acceptable to either the "tack hard" or "tack soft" camp. I wonder which way she'll go.
If she gets a clear indication next week of parliaments direction of travel I have little doubt the EU will get serious
Clear? From Parliament?! I mean, really.
It is just possible - lets see
And why would the EU not have been serious before when May has presumably been telling them for months that she needs changes to get this through? They just keep getting angrier that she is saying the same thing.
As for wait and see, she has used up the reasonable allotment of giving her the benefit of the doubt.
They are looking down the barrel of no deal in 7 weeks
How can they do that when the muzzle is in our mouth?
I suppose you can look down the barrel from two directions.
I am sure that the EU are dreading all those Airbus jobs moving there....
You really lack self-awareness don't you?
"Despite Brexit" the UK's jobs market is at its most successful ever, while in the Eurozone most big nations are facing or in recession. Germany even is in recession, while the UK is growing faster than all other G7 European nations. "Despite Brexit".
Thank you for the kind word - I thought through this on my home from work but I keep thinking I'm missing something.
The one other factor might be the EU and the degree to which they are willing to prevent a No Deal. if we get down to close to the wire, the EU may seek to extend A50 and it may be the WA isn't as non-negotiable as we might think.
If the EU blinks, it's possible May can get enough concession to make the WA acceptable to either the "tack hard" or "tack soft" camp. I wonder which way she'll go.
If she gets a clear indication next week of parliaments direction of travel I have little doubt the EU will get serious
Clear? From Parliament?! I mean, really.
It is just possible - lets see
And why would the EU not have been serious before when May has presumably been telling them for months that she needs changes to get this through? They just keep getting angrier that she is saying the same thing.
As for wait and see, she has used up the reasonable allotment of giving her the benefit of the doubt.
They are looking down the barrel of no deal in 7 weeks
How can they do that when the muzzle is in our mouth?
I suppose you can look down the barrel from two directions.
I am sure that the EU are dreading all those Airbus jobs moving there....
You really lack self-awareness don't you?
"Despite Brexit" the UK's jobs market is at its most successful ever, while in the Eurozone most big nations are facing or in recession. Germany even is in recession, while the UK is growing faster than all other G7 European nations. "Despite Brexit".
Thank you for the kind word - I thought through this on my home from work but I keep thinking I'm missing something.
The one other factor might be the EU and the degree to which they are willing to prevent a No Deal. if we get down to close to the wire, the EU may seek to extend A50 and it may be the WA isn't as non-negotiable as we might think.
If the EU blinks, it's possible May can get enough concession to make the WA acceptable to either the "tack hard" or "tack soft" camp. I wonder which way she'll go.
If she gets a clear indication next week of parliaments direction of travel I have little doubt the EU will get serious
Clear? From Parliament?! I mean, really.
It is just possible - lets see
And why would the EU not have been serious before when May has presumably been telling them for months that she needs changes to get this through? They just keep getting angrier that she is saying the same thing.
As for wait and see, she has used up the reasonable allotment of giving her the benefit of the doubt.
They are looking down the barrel of no deal in 7 weeks
How can they do that when the muzzle is in our mouth?
I suppose you can look down the barrel from two directions.
I am sure that the EU are dreading all those Airbus jobs moving there....
You really lack self-awareness don't you?
"Despite Brexit" the UK's jobs market is at its most successful ever, while in the Eurozone most big nations are facing or in recession. Germany even is in recession, while the UK is growing faster than all other G7 European nations. "Despite Brexit".
Germany has slowed down because it is a major manufacturing exporter, and China has reduced imports, but the basis of its economy is fundamentally sound.
Yes! I, dots, was the one saying some leave vote was protest against Cameron and Osborne, and their secretive negotiation (to this day do we know what Camerons red lines were?) because I genuinely don’t believe Mogg speaks for 17.4 million leave votes, that the definition of Brexit in the minds of those 17.4 million when they cast their votes is same as what goes on between Bernard Jenkins ears, which is the brexit we are getting in a few weeks time.
So correct where I am wrong, if I am misreading this, project fear, condemned by Brexiteers as laughable, is now being used to swing country behind May’s “imperfect” deal, with brexiteers who have gone over to the imperfect deal saying we should heed these fearful warnings because they are real... and all this is being done in the name of restoring trust and faith in politics?
I don't quite follow your point. I certainly don't think Mogg represents all 17.4million leave voters. I know he does not, I voted leave myself. That doesn't change that anyone arguing the leave vote was not about, well, leaving the EU, because some people were thinking of Cameron's deal, is just plain wrong. I don't care what your motivation was, while what constituted leave was uncertain it was at least very clear that we would leave under a leave vote, and remain under a remain vote. Whatever leave or indeed remain ended up looking like, one is leave and one is remain, and the two do not cross.
My main point was that many leavers claim their way is the only thing that satisfied the 17.4million and that is plainly wrong, since many wanted different things, and in any case the rest of the country is relevant here. Some also said things which they now act like would be unacceptable. But some remainers also insist people had no idea what they were voting for, when remain did have a campaign and did warn of many of the things that have happened and, frankly, they were right about.
Both sides try to have it both ways. Leave that the vote must be respected but only in a narrow way which cannot be extrapolated to all leave voters in the way they pretend. Remainers in that people did not understand what remain told them last time or they are pretending their own campaign did not warn about these things, even as other remainers happily point out that they did indeed warn us.
I was listening to a report from Davos today when it was stated that no deal will not just damage the UK and the EU but will have huge implications across the world
Given that the UK can avoid no deal at the stroke of a pen by revoking Article 50, just how much pressure do you think Theresa May will therefore come under to do just that?
Impossible without a referendum
Impossible without her head - no reason why it would require an immediate referendum as an election would be more likely once a new Tory leader was appointed.
In many ways it would be the sane approach - at no level can we agree what we want so let's step back from the cliff edge and try again...
Also I suspect it would annoy the EU so much that many leavers would actively enjoy it...
In terms of Aircraft manufacturing what Brexit is doing is forcing us to make a choice. For decades we have tried to play both sides, half in the Sherman camp, half in the EU camp. This is no longer possible after brexit, we lose all influence in Brussels so we have no choice to go USA only and if the truth were told this choice was obvious when BAE sold it's Airbus stake and decide to focus on the US market. The UK has 15% of the F35 program, which the whole world wants to buy and is embedded in a lot more. Boeing are running Ads on the TV about their commitment to the UK. The MoD is not even inviting Airbus to tender for the new AEW program, the new spy plance program and Williamson stands up to announce the new fighter project and yet again Airbus is not there. Add in the most stupid decision made in the whole brexit process, that of the EU kicking the UK out of the Galileo program.
It is obvious we are going 100% partnership with the Americans and the EU only have them selves to blame.
Broughton better hope Boeing will buy them off Airbus.
Thank you for the kind word - I thought through this on my home from work but I keep thinking I'm missing something.
The one other factor might be the EU and the degree to which they are willing to prevent a No Deal. if we get down to close to the wire, the EU may seek to extend A50 and it may be the WA isn't as non-negotiable as we might think.
If the EU blinks, it's possible May can get enough concession to make the WA acceptable to either the "tack hard" or "tack soft" camp. I wonder which way she'll go.
If she gets a clear indication next week of parliaments direction of travel I have little doubt the EU will get serious
Clear? From Parliament?! I mean, really.
It is just possible - lets see
And why would the EU not have been serious before when May has presumably been telling them for months that she needs changes to get this through? They just keep getting angrier that she is saying the same thing.
As for wait and see, she has used up the reasonable allotment of giving her the benefit of the doubt.
They are looking down the barrel of no deal in 7 weeks
How can they do that when the muzzle is in our mouth?
I suppose you can look down the barrel from two directions.
I am sure that the EU are dreading all those Airbus jobs moving there....
You really lack self-awareness don't you?
"Despite Brexit" the UK's jobs market is at its most successful ever, while in the Eurozone most big nations are facing or in recession. Germany even is in recession, while the UK is growing faster than all other G7 European nations. "Despite Brexit".
This is all pre Brexit
No, it's really not. It's all post-Brexit vote and where we are constantly being told that "jobs are moving to Europe" already.
Anyone with self-awareness would look at what is happening in the real world, pause and wonder if maybe, just maybe, their assumptions are wrong.
Mr Murray’s would commit the government to holding a referendum offering a choice between a Brexit deal that guarantees “full participation in the single market”, as previously promised by Labour, and remaining in the EU.
The amendment submitted by Mr Gapes would “allow the British public an opportunity to have a final say” on leaving the EU, while Ms Smith’s would see ministers legislate for a vote on “whether or not the UK should leave
The last two seem really woolly, if you're going for it it seems incumbent to be a little more detailed than that.
I was listening to a report from Davos today when it was stated that no deal will not just damage the UK and the EU but will have huge implications across the world
Given that the UK can avoid no deal at the stroke of a pen by revoking Article 50, just how much pressure do you think Theresa May will therefore come under to do just that?
Impossible without a referendum
Impossible without her head - no reason why it would require an immediate referendum as an election would be more likely once a new Tory leader was appointed.
In many ways it would be the sane approach - at no level can we agree what we want so let's step back from the cliff edge and try again...
Also I suspect it would annoy the EU so much that many leavers would actively enjoy it...
Impossible without both. No Deal Brexit won't be a disaster though, just a slow slippery slope of economic, social, political and diplomatic decline. Not the end of the world though, and nothing like a zombie apocalypse, except perhaps in a few isolated sectors.
Thank you for the kind word - I thought through this on my home from work but I keep thinking I'm missing something.
The one other factor might be the EU and the degree to which they are willing to prevent a No Deal. if we get down to close to the wire, the EU may seek to extend A50 and it may be the WA isn't as non-negotiable as we might think.
If the EU blinks, it's possible May can get enough concession to make the WA acceptable to either the "tack hard" or "tack soft" camp. I wonder which way she'll go.
If she gets a clear indication next week of parliaments direction of travel I have little doubt the EU will get serious
Clear? From Parliament?! I mean, really.
It is just possible - lets see
And why would the EU not have been serious before when May has presumably been telling them for months that she needs changes to get this through? They just keep getting angrier that she is saying the same thing.
As for wait and see, she has used up the reasonable allotment of giving her the benefit of the doubt.
They are looking down the barrel of no deal in 7 weeks
How can they do that when the muzzle is in our mouth?
I suppose you can look down the barrel from two directions.
I am sure that the EU are dreading all those Airbus jobs moving there....
You really lack self-awareness don't you?
"Despite Brexit" the UK's jobs market is at its most successful ever, while in the Eurozone most big nations are facing or in recession. Germany even is in recession, while the UK is growing faster than all other G7 European nations. "Despite Brexit".
Germany is in recession? When did that happen? I'm sure Andra Neil would be prolapsing on Twitter if that were the case.
Thank you for the kind word - I thought through this on my home from work but I keep thinking I'm missing something.
The one other factor might be the EU and the degree to which they are willing to prevent a No Deal. if we get down to close to the wire, the EU may seek to extend A50 and it may be the WA isn't as non-negotiable as we might think.
If the EU blinks, it's possible May can get enough concession to make the WA acceptable to either the "tack hard" or "tack soft" camp. I wonder which way she'll go.
If she gets a clear indication next week of parliaments direction of travel I have little doubt the EU will get serious
Clear? From Parliament?! I mean, really.
It is just possible - lets see
And why would the EU not have been serious before when May has presumably been telling them for months that she needs changes to get this through? They just keep getting angrier that she is saying the same thing.
As for wait and see, she has used up the reasonable allotment of giving her the benefit of the doubt.
They are looking down the barrel of no deal in 7 weeks
How can they do that when the muzzle is in our mouth?
I suppose you can look down the barrel from two directions.
I am sure that the EU are dreading all those Airbus jobs moving there....
The existing contracts are safe but the danger is to the new generation of wings
It was going to move despite Brexit. Once BAe sold its stake it was doomed
Thank you for the kind word - I thought through this on my home from work but I keep thinking I'm missing something.
The one other factor might be the EU and the degree to which they are willing to prevent a No Deal. if we get down to close to the wire, the EU may seek to extend A50 and it may be the WA isn't as non-negotiable as we might think.
If the EU blinks, it's possible May can get enough concession to make the WA acceptable to either the "tack hard" or "tack soft" camp. I wonder which way she'll go.
If she gets a clear indication next week of parliaments direction of travel I have little doubt the EU will get serious
Clear? From Parliament?! I mean, really.
It is just possible - lets see
And why would the EU not have been serious before when May has presumably been telling them for months that she needs changes to get this through? They just keep getting angrier that she is saying the same thing.
As for wait and see, she has used up the reasonable allotment of giving her the benefit of the doubt.
They are looking down the barrel of no deal in 7 weeks
How can they do that when the muzzle is in our mouth?
I suppose you can look down the barrel from two directions.
I am sure that the EU are dreading all those Airbus jobs moving there....
You really lack self-awareness don't you?
"Despite Brexit" the UK's jobs market is at its most successful ever, while in the Eurozone most big nations are facing or in recession. Germany even is in recession, while the UK is growing faster than all other G7 European nations. "Despite Brexit".
Germany is in recession? When did that happen? I'm sure Andra Neil would be prolapsing on Twitter if that were the case.
Thank you for the kind word - I thought through this on my home from work but I keep thinking I'm missing something.
The one other factor might be the EU and the degree to which they are willing to prevent a No Deal. if we get down to close to the wire, the EU may seek to extend A50 and it may be the WA isn't as non-negotiable as we might think.
If the EU blinks, it's possible May can get enough concession to make the WA acceptable to either the "tack hard" or "tack soft" camp. I wonder which way she'll go.
If she gets a clear indication next week of parliaments direction of travel I have little doubt the EU will get serious
Clear? From Parliament?! I mean, really.
It is just possible - lets see
And why would the EU not have been serious before when May has presumably been telling them for months that she needs changes to get this through? They just keep getting angrier that she is saying the same thing.
As for wait and see, she has used up the reasonable allotment of giving her the benefit of the doubt.
They are looking down the barrel of no deal in 7 weeks
How can they do that when the muzzle is in our mouth?
I suppose you can look down the barrel from two directions.
I am sure that the EU are dreading all those Airbus jobs moving there....
You really lack self-awareness don't you?
"Despite Brexit" the UK's jobs market is at its most successful ever, while in the Eurozone most big nations are facing or in recession. Germany even is in recession, while the UK is growing faster than all other G7 European nations. "Despite Brexit".
This is all pre Brexit
You do know the EU is still printing money?
Without that artificial stimulation I dread to think what their growth would be like
Er, wouldn't that require we start all over again, Len? I mean, I'm sure you believe Jeremy to be super competent and all, but presumably you expected him to take the better part of 2 years to come up with his proper deal that will unite the nation
Thank you for the kind word - I thought through this on my home from work but I keep thinking I'm missing something.
The one other factor might be the EU and the degree to which they are willing to prevent a No Deal. if we get down to close to the wire, the EU may seek to extend A50 and it may be the WA isn't as non-negotiable as we might think.
If the EU blinks, it's possible May can get enough concession to make the WA acceptable to either the "tack hard" or "tack soft" camp. I wonder which way she'll go.
If she gets a clear indication next week of parliaments direction of travel I have little doubt the EU will get serious
Clear? From Parliament?! I mean, really.
It is just possible - lets see
And why would the EU not have been serious before when May has presumably been telling them for months that she needs changes to get this through? They just keep getting angrier that she is saying the same thing.
As for wait and see, she has used up the reasonable allotment of giving her the benefit of the doubt.
They are looking down the barrel of no deal in 7 weeks
How can they do that when the muzzle is in our mouth?
I suppose you can look down the barrel from two directions.
I am sure that the EU are dreading all those Airbus jobs moving there....
You really lack self-awareness don't you?
"Despite Brexit" the UK's jobs market is at its most successful ever, while in the Eurozone most big nations are facing or in recession. Germany even is in recession, while the UK is growing faster than all other G7 European nations. "Despite Brexit".
Germany is in recession? When did that happen? I'm sure Andra Neil would be prolapsing on Twitter if that were the case.
He has pointed it out.
Oh, you mean 'after negative GDP in Q3 it's possible there was German technical recession in H2 2018. Or v close to it.'
Using the Neil hysteria filter, that means they've got fuck all to worry about.
Er, wouldn't that require we start all over again, Len? I mean, I'm sure you believe Jeremy to be super competent and all, but presumably you expected him to take the better part of 2 years to come up with his proper deal that will unite the nation
Thank you for the kind word - I thought through this on my home from work but I keep thinking I'm missing something.
The one other factor might be the EU and the degree to which they are willing to prevent a No Deal. if we get down to close to the wire, the EU may seek to extend A50 and it may be the WA isn't as non-negotiable as we might think.
If the EU blinks, it's possible May can get enough concession to make the WA acceptable to either the "tack hard" or "tack soft" camp. I wonder which way she'll go.
If she gets a clear indication next week of parliaments direction of travel I have little doubt the EU will get serious
Clear? From Parliament?! I mean, really.
It is just possible - lets see
And why would the EU not have been serious before when May has presumably been telling them for months that she needs changes to get this through? They just keep getting angrier that she is saying the same thing.
As for wait and see, she has used up the reasonable allotment of giving her the benefit of the doubt.
They are looking down the barrel of no deal in 7 weeks
How can they do that when the muzzle is in our mouth?
I suppose you can look down the barrel from two directions.
I am sure that the EU are dreading all those Airbus jobs moving there....
You really lack self-awareness don't you?
"Despite Brexit" the UK's jobs market is at its most successful ever, while in the Eurozone most big nations are facing or in recession. Germany even is in recession, while the UK is growing faster than all other G7 European nations. "Despite Brexit".
Which sound decisions by the government in recent years would you attribute the economic good news Philip? Was the bit of new broom after Osborne was dumped a helpful thing?
Er, wouldn't that require we start all over again, Len? I mean, I'm sure you believe Jeremy to be super competent and all, but presumably you expected him to take the better part of 2 years to come up with his proper deal that will unite the nation
It's purpose wasn't to come to an agreement, for either of them. Surely no one expected that. But they can each claim they at least tried.
And given he still seems to be pushing for a GE and a deal, rather than a referendum to remain, call it half a point for May?
Len has always opposed a #peoplesvote, so no surprise there.
Indeed, not a surprise, but that he's still pushing the far more unrealistic scenario of 'renegotiate the whole damn thing, properly this time' presumably gives further cover to Corbyn to think that's still viable.
Thank you for the kind word - I thought through this on my home from work but I keep thinking I'm missing something.
The one other factor might be the EU and the degree to which they are willing to prevent a No Deal. if we get down to close to the wire, the EU may seek to extend A50 and it may be the WA isn't as non-negotiable as we might think.
If the EU blinks, it's possible May can get enough concession to make the WA acceptable to either the "tack hard" or "tack soft" camp. I wonder which way she'll go.
If she gets a clear indication next week of parliaments direction of travel I have little doubt the EU will get serious
Clear? From Parliament?! I mean, really.
It is just possible - lets see
And why would the EU not have been serious before when May has presumably been telling them for months that she needs changes to get this through? They just keep getting angrier that she is saying the same thing.
As for wait and see, she has used up the reasonable allotment of giving her the benefit of the doubt.
They are looking down the barrel of no deal in 7 weeks
How can they do that when the muzzle is in our mouth?
I suppose you can look down the barrel from two directions.
I am sure that the EU are dreading all those Airbus jobs moving there....
You really lack self-awareness don't you?
"Despite Brexit" the UK's jobs market is at its most successful ever, while in the Eurozone most big nations are facing or in recession. Germany even is in recession, while the UK is growing faster than all other G7 European nations. "Despite Brexit".
Which sound decisions by the government in recent years would you attribute the economic good news Philip? Was the bit of new broom after Osborne was dumped a helpful thing?
Two things:
1: Sound policies by Osborne.
2: Welfare reform so work paid more than welfare did - credit to Osborne and IDS [only thing I'd ever credit IDS with]
I don't see what anyone's done post-Osborne/IDS that's worthy of mentioning.
I was listening to a report from Davos today when it was stated that no deal will not just damage the UK and the EU but will have huge implications across the world
Given that the UK can avoid no deal at the stroke of a pen by revoking Article 50, just how much pressure do you think Theresa May will therefore come under to do just that?
Impossible without a referendum
Impossible without her head - no reason why it would require an immediate referendum as an election would be more likely once a new Tory leader was appointed.
In many ways it would be the sane approach - at no level can we agree what we want so let's step back from the cliff edge and try again...
Also I suspect it would annoy the EU so much that many leavers would actively enjoy it...
Impossible without both. No Deal Brexit won't be a disaster though, just a slow slippery slope of economic, social, political and diplomatic decline. Not the end of the world though, and nothing like a zombie apocalypse, except perhaps in a few isolated sectors.
That's my assessment...a hard Brexit would drive us slowly into a poorer, divided country at the edge of Europe with crap weather... At the moment the great ship UK Britannia is hardly setting the world on fire, so Brexit will drive us from a low bar into a lower bar...not the end of the world, but fucking depressing all the same....
Er, wouldn't that require we start all over again, Len? I mean, I'm sure you believe Jeremy to be super competent and all, but presumably you expected him to take the better part of 2 years to come up with his proper deal that will unite the nation
It's purpose wasn't to come to an agreement, for either of them. Surely no one expected that. But they can each claim they at least tried.
And given he still seems to be pushing for a GE and a deal, rather than a referendum to remain, call it half a point for May?
Len has always opposed a #peoplesvote, so no surprise there.
Indeed, not a surprise, but that he's still pushing the far more unrealistic scenario of 'renegotiate the whole damn thing, properly this time' presumably gives further cover to Corbyn to think that's still viable.
"...The UK has 15% of the F35 program, which the whole world wants to buy..."
Although it's not as good as the F22 and the wings are too small, I like the F35 rather a lot. But if 15% of one plane built in the US is the sum total of the UK aviation industry then we are fucked.
To perhaps be a bit less shouty about it for a moment, for the past few years the MOD has started buying off the shelf instead of long involved developments like the F35 or A400M. So we got the Rivet Joint from Boeing, the Boxers from Rhinemetall, etc. So the spyplane purchase you refer to (the Wedgetail) is more a case of that than that.
"...The UK has 15% of the F35 program, which the whole world wants to buy..."
Although it's not as good as the F22 and the wings are too small, I like the F35 rather a lot. But if 15% of one plane built in the US is the sum total of the UK aviation industry then we are fucked.
To perhaps be a bit less shouty about it for a moment, for the past few years the MOD has started buying off the shelf instead of long involved developments like the F35 or A400M. So we got the Rivet Joint from Boeing, the Boxers from Rhinemetall, etc. So the spyplane purchase you refer to (the Wedgetail) is more a case of that than that.
My first sentence "In terms of Arircraft Manufacturing." Why quote Boxers and Challenger upgrades are they aircraft?
"...The UK has 15% of the F35 program, which the whole world wants to buy..."
Although it's not as good as the F22 and the wings are too small, I like the F35 rather a lot. But if 15% of one plane built in the US is the sum total of the UK aviation industry then we are fucked.
To perhaps be a bit less shouty about it for a moment, for the past few years the MOD has started buying off the shelf instead of long involved developments like the F35 or A400M. So we got the Rivet Joint from Boeing, the Boxers from Rhinemetall, etc. So the spyplane purchase you refer to (the Wedgetail) is more a case of that than that.
My first sentence "In terms of Arircraft Manufacturing." Why quote Boxers and Challenger upgrades are they aircraft?
To perhaps be a bit less shouty about it for a moment, for the past few years the MOD has started buying off the shelf instead of long involved developments like the F35 or A400M.
And thank God for that as 9 times out of 10 it is a better choice than pissing away vast amounts of time and money reinventing the wheel badly.
To perhaps be a bit less shouty about it for a moment, for the past few years the MOD has started buying off the shelf instead of long involved developments like the F35 or A400M.
And thank God for that as 9 times out of 10 it is a better choice than pissing away vast amounts of time and money reinventing the wheel badly.
Agreed. We can talk about the Nimrod Mk4 and its wacky wings that don't fit if you like. Shudders...
"...The UK has 15% of the F35 program, which the whole world wants to buy..."
Although it's not as good as the F22 and the wings are too small, I like the F35 rather a lot. But if 15% of one plane built in the US is the sum total of the UK aviation industry then we are fucked.
To perhaps be a bit less shouty about it for a moment, for the past few years the MOD has started buying off the shelf instead of long involved developments like the F35 or A400M. So we got the Rivet Joint from Boeing, the Boxers from Rhinemetall, etc. So the spyplane purchase you refer to (the Wedgetail) is more a case of that than that.
My first sentence "In terms of Arircraft Manufacturing." Why quote Boxers and Challenger upgrades are they aircraft?
Not all campaigners support this. One said it was "f***ing mad" & no different to Downing St policy of May's deal vs no-deal
Indeed. It would also make a lie of their fears of no deal. Bit of an unnecessary scorched earth strategy, I think they're well placed if they focus. People are vaguely softening on various options, but don't actually appear that close to a decision yet, which means it is all to play for for PV.
Well it certainly makes clear they have no interest in another vote for the sake of democracy but only as a means of making sure we don't leave. Which of course we have known all along. We were just waiting for them to be honest about it. .
As a means of making sure we don't leave without the specific consent of the people for the withdrawal agreement.
Nah, spin it how you like William. This just shows exactly what we have always known. The PV folks see a 2nd referendum as a smokescreen for Remain. At least old Uncle Vince has been honest about it saying there is no version of Brexit he would ever support. The rest are just dishonest. Which is what we expect from politicians I suppose.
Not all campaigners support this. One said it was "f***ing mad" & no different to Downing St policy of May's deal vs no-deal
Indeed. It would also make a lie of their fears of no deal. Bit of an unnecessary scorched earth strategy, I think they're well placed if they focus. People are vaguely softening on various options, but don't actually appear that close to a decision yet, which means it is all to play for for PV.
Well it certainly makes clear they have no interest in another vote for the sake of democracy but only as a means of making sure we don't leave. Which of course we have known all along. We were just waiting for them to be honest about it. .
As a means of making sure we don't leave without the specific consent of the people for the withdrawal agreement.
Nah, spin it how you like William. This just shows exactly what we have always known. The PV folks see a 2nd referendum as a smokescreen for Remain. At least old Uncle Vince has been honest about it saying there is no version of Brexit he would ever support. The rest are just dishonest. Which is what we expect from politicians I suppose.
Why wouldn’t the same 17.4 million, or even more of them come out for it a second time?
Vacuum news, for which I'm sure you're all on tenterhooks.
Numatic, which makes Henry and Hetty vacuums, is employing a further 300 people in Chard, Somerset. That brings the net UK vacuum cleaner manufacturing job +/- to +298 over the past week.
As you already know, your office cleaner uses Henrys (or, if your colleagues are filthy, the imperious 1200W Charles model) because they are cheap as chips and utterly bombproof, even if they are heavy.
I felt since last Sunday its turned and going Mays way, this is the decisive moment, if the EU play ball and time limit the backstop it dramatically changes the parliamentary arithmetic.
I think the EU will play ball because their signals are screaming just tell us what you want, as soon as the arithmetic stacks up in the commons the EU will be happy to do what is necessary for the orderly WA to happen instead of outright disorder. If a backstop “time limit” amendment passes the commons this week, that’s enough, its all EU need to see and hear, the deal is done.
I felt since last Sunday its turned and going Mays way, this is the decisive moment, if the EU play ball and time limit the backstop it dramatically changes the parliamentary arithmetic.
I think the EU will play ball because their signals are screaming just tell us what you want
....and Leo Varadkar is screaming "We can't have a hard border...."
And you were probably right the whole time (or if not quite at the upper end, then quite a lot at least) - the question was not whether if the DUP were on side would many Tories find themselves able to do the same, it was always what could bring the DUP on board which would also pass muster with the EU. Varadkar seems to be digging in, content that he won't have to face a hard border no matter what, despite some rumblings from elsewhere in the EU, and the EU still seem really really against opening up the WA itself, which seems to be a big stumbling block.
It is almost a little odd seeing one's previously pretty obscure local MP suddenly having their name bandied about next to serious governmental strategies. Must have have been odd for Corbyn's constituents for example. By contrast Dr Murrison was a junior minister, and select committee chair, so not totally unknown, but I'm still not used to seeing him referenced.
Comments
But in fairness, there are other views and I should caveat mine with IMHO
https://twitter.com/andrealeadsom/status/1088505885394124800?s=21
Her motivations may be other than just an innocent observer of the passing of time, but I doubt you're going to fall for that. In fact you haven't.
I could have been more obscure by saying I'll get my Coates.
The inability of the Government to make adequate and proper contingency plans for No Deal is the aspect that annoys me far more than the parliamentary shenanigans. Any project and I mean any project has to consider all possible risks and put in place mitigating measures to counter the adverse impacts.
When the project to leave the EU was started, I cannot believe somebody didn't ask "what if there's No Deal?". If it comes out the Civil Service were instructed NOT to plan for No Deal, I would hold May and her Government in complete contempt - their negligence would be appalling.
I am therefore forced to believe there are contingency plans in place but clearly the political dimension (Project Fear) means the illusion of ill-preparedness is being weaponised in order to get the WDA accepted and through parliament in time.
The problem with bluffing is when your opponent sees through your bluff and calls or raises. If you want them to believe you are sitting with a full house and you have a pair of twos then you have to hope you can bluff well. The problem is the reputation of Project Fear was undermined by the lack of impact of the 2016 referendum result and indeed some would argue the devaluation of sterling was actually an economic positive (much as those who argue the same thing happening in September 1992 was a benefit despite the political disaster it inflicted on John Major).
Really who knows
It is the difference between the egg and the bacon at breakfast. The chicken is involved, but the pig is committed.
Prominent US ‘gay conversion therapist’ David Matheson divorces wife and comes out as gay
https://news.sky.com/story/prominent-us-gay-conversion-therapist-david-matheson-divorces-wife-and-comes-out-as-gay-11616605
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1088547341202870272
So correct where I am wrong, if I am misreading this, project fear, condemned by Brexiteers as laughable, is now being used to swing country behind May’s “imperfect” deal, with brexiteers who have gone over to the imperfect deal saying we should heed these fearful warnings because they are real... and all this is being done in the name of restoring trust and faith in politics?
"Despite Brexit" the UK's jobs market is at its most successful ever, while in the Eurozone most big nations are facing or in recession. Germany even is in recession, while the UK is growing faster than all other G7 European nations. "Despite Brexit".
My main point was that many leavers claim their way is the only thing that satisfied the 17.4million and that is plainly wrong, since many wanted different things, and in any case the rest of the country is relevant here. Some also said things which they now act like would be unacceptable. But some remainers also insist people had no idea what they were voting for, when remain did have a campaign and did warn of many of the things that have happened and, frankly, they were right about.
Both sides try to have it both ways. Leave that the vote must be respected but only in a narrow way which cannot be extrapolated to all leave voters in the way they pretend. Remainers in that people did not understand what remain told them last time or they are pretending their own campaign did not warn about these things, even as other remainers happily point out that they did indeed warn us.
In many ways it would be the sane approach - at no level can we agree what we want so let's step back from the cliff edge and try again...
Also I suspect it would annoy the EU so much that many leavers would actively enjoy it...
This is no longer possible after brexit, we lose all influence in Brussels so we have no choice to go USA only and if the truth were told this choice was obvious when BAE sold it's Airbus stake and decide to focus on the US market.
The UK has 15% of the F35 program, which the whole world wants to buy and is embedded in a lot more. Boeing are running Ads on the TV about their commitment to the UK.
The MoD is not even inviting Airbus to tender for the new AEW program, the new spy plance program and Williamson stands up to announce the new fighter project and yet again Airbus is not there.
Add in the most stupid decision made in the whole brexit process, that of the EU kicking the UK out of the Galileo program.
It is obvious we are going 100% partnership with the Americans and the EU only have them selves to blame.
Broughton better hope Boeing will buy them off Airbus.
Anyone with self-awareness would look at what is happening in the real world, pause and wonder if maybe, just maybe, their assumptions are wrong.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-jeremy-corbyn-labour-mps-second-referendum-latest-eu-a8745231.html
Mr Murray’s would commit the government to holding a referendum offering a choice between a Brexit deal that guarantees “full participation in the single market”, as previously promised by Labour, and remaining in the EU.
The amendment submitted by Mr Gapes would “allow the British public an opportunity to have a final say” on leaving the EU, while Ms Smith’s would see ministers legislate for a vote on “whether or not the UK should leave
The last two seem really woolly, if you're going for it it seems incumbent to be a little more detailed than that.
Without that artificial stimulation I dread to think what their growth would be like
And given he still seems to be pushing for a GE and a deal, rather than a referendum to remain, call it half a point for May?
Using the Neil hysteria filter, that means they've got fuck all to worry about.
1: Sound policies by Osborne.
2: Welfare reform so work paid more than welfare did - credit to Osborne and IDS [only thing I'd ever credit IDS with]
I don't see what anyone's done post-Osborne/IDS that's worthy of mentioning.
"...Williamson stands up to announce the new fighter project and yet again Airbus is not there..."
True. But Leonardo is part of the Tempest team. Plus we threw £239milion at them last week for some choppers. Unless you think Italy isn't European...
"...It is obvious we are going 100% partnership with the Americans and the EU only have them selves to blame..."
I must have missed this 100% partnership when the MOD announced its reengagement with Artec to purchase Boxers. Unless you think Holland and Germany aren't European...
"...The UK has 15% of the F35 program, which the whole world wants to buy..."
Although it's not as good as the F22 and the wings are too small, I like the F35 rather a lot. But if 15% of one plane built in the US is the sum total of the UK aviation industry then we are fucked.
Incidentally, did you miss the recent Rhinemetall proposal for the Challenger upgrade?. The only other competitor is BAE with its "Black Night" concept and - whoops - BAE just sold its UK land interests to Rhinemetall. Matsimus quite likes it.
To perhaps be a bit less shouty about it for a moment, for the past few years the MOD has started buying off the shelf instead of long involved developments like the F35 or A400M. So we got the Rivet Joint from Boeing, the Boxers from Rhinemetall, etc. So the spyplane purchase you refer to (the Wedgetail) is more a case of that than that.
Why quote Boxers and Challenger upgrades are they aircraft?
Numatic, which makes Henry and Hetty vacuums, is employing a further 300 people in Chard, Somerset. That brings the net UK vacuum cleaner manufacturing job +/- to +298 over the past week.
As you already know, your office cleaner uses Henrys (or, if your colleagues are filthy, the imperious 1200W Charles model) because they are cheap as chips and utterly bombproof, even if they are heavy.
2) How long before the DUP deny this latest report they are softening?
I think the EU will play ball because their signals are screaming just tell us what you want, as soon as the arithmetic stacks up in the commons the EU will be happy to do what is necessary for the orderly WA to happen instead of outright disorder. If a backstop “time limit” amendment passes the commons this week, that’s enough, its all EU need to see and hear, the deal is done.