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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why changes to the primary structure are going to make WH2020

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  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Incidentally, have you been booted off Twitter? I can't find your account anywhere.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, have you been booted off Twitter? I can't find your account anywhere.
    I deleted my Twitter account after I got a 14 day suspension for calling Gary Lineker a greedy c*nt that suckles millions from the public teat and whores crisps at our children.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,781
    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    And adjusted for HSBC the figures show...
    Surely the ES could use someone to read these articles before they're published. A sort of Editor figure. Nothing is particularly wrong in that link, but much is dismal reading. Osborne can, and should, do far better.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited January 2019

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, have you been booted off Twitter? I can't find your account anywhere.
    I deleted my Twitter account after I got a 14 day suspension for calling Gary Lineker a greedy - that suckles millions from the public teat and whores crisps at our children.
    Okaaaay...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,738
    Corbyn’s sense of English irony strikes again.
    https://twitter.com/thegolem_/status/1080886732701253633?s=21
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234

    Corbyn’s sense of English irony strikes again.
    https://twitter.com/thegolem_/status/1080886732701253633?s=21

    rogue electorate
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Corbyn’s sense of English irony strikes again.
    https://twitter.com/thegolem_/status/1080886732701253633?s=21

    After the uprising of the 17th of June
    The Secretary of the Writers' Union
    Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee
    Stating that the people
    Had forfeited the confidence of the government
    And could win it back only
    By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier
    In that case for the government
    To dissolve the people
    And elect another?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,469

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, have you been booted off Twitter? I can't find your account anywhere.
    I deleted my Twitter account after I got a 14 day suspension for calling Gary Lineker a greedy c*nt that suckles millions from the public teat and whores crisps at our children.
    Hahaha. Nice. That’s one way to use Twitter.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,781

    Corbyn’s sense of English irony strikes again.
    https://twitter.com/thegolem_/status/1080886732701253633?s=21

    To condemn people that have voted other than the way you'd suggest is simply anti-democratic. If the people of Milton Keyne's had done something daft like appear with terrorists then perhaps condemnation would be appropriate. I don't think they have though.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202
    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    And adjusted for HSBC the figures show...
    HSBC is the biggest bank in the UK
  • HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    And adjusted for HSBC the figures show...
    HSBC is the biggest bank in the UK
    That doesn't answer the question posed by Charles.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,878
    Chris said:

    What is the PB consensus on the right time to start stockpiling food and medicine?

    Do we start when the Christmas tree goes out on Saturday night?

    Don't be too hasty about throwing out the tree. Pine needle soup could be a handy addition to the larder in the Spring.
    And there's the fuel element for when all the power stations close because they don't have some EU permit, or something.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,878

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    malcolmg said:

    What about British nationalism?
    An oft heard cry from Labour Unionists during the indy ref was that Scottish independence would make family foreigners (Tony Benn & Margaret Curran spring to mind as producers of that sort of guff). Why is being a foreigner so bad, and why should a Glasgow scaffolder feel more internationalist solidarity with one from Gloucester than he would with ones from Galway or Göttingen?

    Because the common man in Berwickshire and the common man in Northumberland are culturally and linguistically one and the same.
    Hmmmm, you listening to Land of Hope and Glory as you post that. Utter bollox.
    In what way is it ‘utter bollox’? Your xenophobic anti-english sentiment is blinding you to the truth.
    Hi Gallowgate. You OK? Don't feel you have to answer, have just been a bit concerned.
    Doctors think I’m okay.
    Is that the view around here?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237

    AndyJS said:

    ydoethur said:

    AndyJS said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    I would hate to have a job that deals with the public these days...

    Make sure you wear a helmet and sensible clothes = you victim blaming nazi

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/jan/04/cycling-uk-angered-by-highway-codes-victim-blaming-helmet-advice

    I was driving through Westminster yesterday at dusk and it was very dangerous - the number of cyclists with dark clothing and no desire to stick to the rules (red lights, pedestrians, etc).

    When you combine that with traffic and risk-taking pedestrians on their phones it's very difficult and dangerous driving. Of course I'm going to try not to hit anyone, but a bit of a contribution on their side would be appreciated!
    I am a regular cyclist in London and I loathe those who go through red lights, ride like idiots, etc.

    If I am at a red light, I can guarantee that 95% of every cyclist that comes to it will go straight through it.
    Why and when did cyclists in London start going through red lights? I don't think it happens in other cities, and didn't use to happen in London until a few years ago. Maybe it's a response to aggressive drivers in the capital.
    It does happen in Cannock as well. Aberystwyth was pretty bad for it too ten years ago. Not sure what it's like there now.
    As late as the 1990s about 99.9% of drivers and cyclists would respect red lights, even if there was no other traffic around. We've seemingly become a less law-abiding country since then. I was in Chicago recently for a couple of days and it was normal there for two cars to go through after the lights changed to red. I hope we're not heading in that direction.
    I've noticed over the years, in London at least, drivers using their indicators to turn left/right less and less.
    Yeah, they've started using their steering wheel to turn left and right instead. Weirdos.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    DavidL said:

    Chris said:

    What is the PB consensus on the right time to start stockpiling food and medicine?

    Do we start when the Christmas tree goes out on Saturday night?

    Don't be too hasty about throwing out the tree. Pine needle soup could be a handy addition to the larder in the Spring.
    And there's the fuel element for when all the power stations close because they don't have some EU permit, or something.
    I dunno, my stove is finding it bloody difficult just to keep the temperature level at the moment, and I must have burned more wood than there is in the average Christmas tree this afternoon.

    However, in April it will hopefully not be so horrendously cold as it is today. My heating was on minimal frost protection an it still came on at midday!
  • HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    And adjusted for HSBC the figures show...
    HSBC is the biggest bank in the UK
    That doesn't answer the question posed by Charles.
    It's based on a BoE report which uses "BIS consolidated" figures.

    The UK's exposure to Hong Kong in particular is huge, which does HSBC is a significant factor.

    https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/quarterly-bulletin/2018/from-the-middle-kingdom-to-the-united-kingdom-spillovers-from-china.pdf?la=en&hash=09E8C8544274C1BDDC8BBF87648AD6F31FD0DAD5
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Cyclefree said:

    Me too. And that Blue zealotry will make it increasingly likely that we will have to suffer the effects of Red zealotry as well.

    Bastards, the lot of them.

    The other day Matthew Parris said on the radio that he thought there was a high risk the Tory party might not exist in a year's time. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised. And it might well be a good thing if it resulted in a genuine realignment in our politics

    I understand your anger. I reached this point about a year ago and people told me I was being silly and melodramatic.
    Ted Heath was right in hindsight not to have a referendum when we went in. He thought that they were unconstitutional.

    It seems that the subsequent 1975 vote was only held due to ... Tony Benn. He suggested one to Harold Wilson, who adopted it because he saw that it got him out of a tight spot. Also he didn't have much time for constitutional niceties.

    If we hadn't had one in 1975, it might have set a precedent, under our unwritten constitution, that no referendums should be held on decisions which parliament ratifies by a majority of >100. But I'd rather have a written constitution and PR, with clear statements of when and why a referendum is allowed.
    At the very least, the "barrier" should be 67%
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Omnium said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    And adjusted for HSBC the figures show...
    Surely the ES could use someone to read these articles before they're published. A sort of Editor figure. Nothing is particularly wrong in that link, but much is dismal reading. Osborne can, and should, do far better.
    It was a shite article. As you said there was nothing wrong. But it didn’t have a beginning, meandered around s bit and never reached a conclusion. Feels like it was dashed off to make a quick £500 and advertise his upcoming book.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    And adjusted for HSBC the figures show...
    HSBC is the biggest bank in the UK
    That doesn't answer the question posed by Charles.
    It is an irrelevant question as our exposure comes because our largest bank has such a big presence in the Far East.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    Martin Wolf drew some disturbing parallels between China and Japan c. 1988.
    Both countries peaked with the size of their working age population. China is poorer than Japan, but a falling working age population - as I've explored in my demographics videos - is always a pretty horrible drag on economic growth.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    And adjusted for HSBC the figures show...
    HSBC is the biggest bank in the UK
    The point is that we have a number of banks. Unusually, though, the UK is also the domicile for HSBC and Standard Chartered which are basically China/Asia firms. Hence if you look at the stats for “U.K. banks” you feta distorted picture.

    Francopan knows that but was too lazy to check. (Knew his brother at school - much preferred their old name of De Lupis, much more evocative)
  • HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    And adjusted for HSBC the figures show...
    HSBC is the biggest bank in the UK
    That doesn't answer the question posed by Charles.
    It's based on a BoE report which uses "BIS consolidated" figures.

    The UK's exposure to Hong Kong in particular is huge, which does HSBC is a significant factor.

    https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/quarterly-bulletin/2018/from-the-middle-kingdom-to-the-united-kingdom-spillovers-from-china.pdf?la=en&hash=09E8C8544274C1BDDC8BBF87648AD6F31FD0DAD5
    Thanks, I feel all left out these days whilst on gardening leave.

    They revoked all my permissions and access.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    And adjusted for HSBC the figures show...
    HSBC is the biggest bank in the UK
    Is it?

    It might be the biggest bank holding company in the UK, but I'd be staggered if it was the biggest purveyor of loans or current accounts.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,781
    edited January 2019
    Charles said:

    Omnium said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    And adjusted for HSBC the figures show...
    Surely the ES could use someone to read these articles before they're published. A sort of Editor figure. Nothing is particularly wrong in that link, but much is dismal reading. Osborne can, and should, do far better.
    It was a shite article. As you said there was nothing wrong. But it didn’t have a beginning, meandered around s bit and never reached a conclusion. Feels like it was dashed off to make a quick £500 and advertise his upcoming book.
    I agree.

    It's a really sad thing that we can't reliably find good English in newspapers, and far less, well written and inspiring prose. It's sort of understandable given modern developments, but not great. If a newspaper is going to push out an important story though some time should be given to making it read well, and some time put aside to checking that it makes sense.
    (The villain discussed does neither.)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202
    edited January 2019
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    And adjusted for HSBC the figures show...
    HSBC is the biggest bank in the UK
    Is it?

    It might be the biggest bank holding company in the UK, but I'd be staggered if it was the biggest purveyor of loans or current accounts.
    Which other bank provides more loans and holds more UK current accounts than HSBC then? Indeed Santander may now be its closest competitor ahead of Lloyds, Barclays and RBS meaning we are exposed to a downturn in the Eurozone and Latin America too
  • Cyclefree said:

    Me too. And that Blue zealotry will make it increasingly likely that we will have to suffer the effects of Red zealotry as well.

    Bastards, the lot of them.

    The other day Matthew Parris said on the radio that he thought there was a high risk the Tory party might not exist in a year's time. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised. And it might well be a good thing if it resulted in a genuine realignment in our politics

    I understand your anger. I reached this point about a year ago and people told me I was being silly and melodramatic.
    Ted Heath was right in hindsight not to have a referendum when we went in. He thought that they were unconstitutional.

    It seems that the subsequent 1975 vote was only held due to ... Tony Benn. He suggested one to Harold Wilson, who adopted it because he saw that it got him out of a tight spot. Also he didn't have much time for constitutional niceties.

    If we hadn't had one in 1975, it might have set a precedent, under our unwritten constitution, that no referendums should be held on decisions which parliament ratifies by a majority of >100. But I'd rather have a written constitution and PR, with clear statements of when and why a referendum is allowed.
    At the very least, the "barrier" should be 67%
    So the rejection of AV would have passed at least? ;)
  • HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    And adjusted for HSBC the figures show...
    HSBC is the biggest bank in the UK
    That doesn't answer the question posed by Charles.
    It's based on a BoE report which uses "BIS consolidated" figures.

    The UK's exposure to Hong Kong in particular is huge, which does HSBC is a significant factor.

    https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/quarterly-bulletin/2018/from-the-middle-kingdom-to-the-united-kingdom-spillovers-from-china.pdf?la=en&hash=09E8C8544274C1BDDC8BBF87648AD6F31FD0DAD5
    Thanks, I feel all left out these days whilst on gardening leave.

    They revoked all my permissions and access.
    I'll let you into a secret. I just googled the quote from the BoE in the article :)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202
    edited January 2019
    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    And adjusted for HSBC the figures show...
    HSBC is the biggest bank in the UK
    The point is that we have a number of banks. Unusually, though, the UK is also the domicile for HSBC and Standard Chartered which are basically China/Asia firms. Hence if you look at the stats for “U.K. banks” you feta distorted picture.

    Francopan knows that but was too lazy to check. (Knew his brother at school - much preferred their old name of De Lupis, much more evocative)
    Maybe but go to almost any High Street and you will see an HSBC branch (even after cutbacks)
  • rcs1000 said:

    AndyJS said:

    ydoethur said:

    AndyJS said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    I would hate to have a job that deals with the public these days...

    Make sure you wear a helmet and sensible clothes = you victim blaming nazi

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/jan/04/cycling-uk-angered-by-highway-codes-victim-blaming-helmet-advice

    I was driving through Westminster yesterday at dusk and it was very dangerous - the number of cyclists with dark clothing and no desire to stick to the rules (red lights, pedestrians, etc).

    When you combine that with traffic and risk-taking pedestrians on their phones it's very difficult and dangerous driving. Of course I'm going to try not to hit anyone, but a bit of a contribution on their side would be appreciated!
    I am a regular cyclist in London and I loathe those who go through red lights, ride like idiots, etc.

    If I am at a red light, I can guarantee that 95% of every cyclist that comes to it will go straight through it.
    Why and when did cyclists in London start going through red lights? I don't think it happens in other cities, and didn't use to happen in London until a few years ago. Maybe it's a response to aggressive drivers in the capital.
    It does happen in Cannock as well. Aberystwyth was pretty bad for it too ten years ago. Not sure what it's like there now.
    As late as the 1990s about 99.9% of drivers and cyclists would respect red lights, even if there was no other traffic around. We've seemingly become a less law-abiding country since then. I was in Chicago recently for a couple of days and it was normal there for two cars to go through after the lights changed to red. I hope we're not heading in that direction.
    I've noticed over the years, in London at least, drivers using their indicators to turn left/right less and less.
    Yeah, they've started using their steering wheel to turn left and right instead. Weirdos.
    I've noticed over the years, in London at least, drivers using their indicators when turning left/right less and less.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    Brexit Global Britain is, of course, a myth. Not many people believed it, but enough did to make the difference between Leave and Remain.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    And adjusted for HSBC the figures show...
    HSBC is the biggest bank in the UK
    Is it?

    It might be the biggest bank holding company in the UK, but I'd be staggered if it was the biggest purveyor of loans or current accounts.
    Which other bank provides more loans and holds more UK current accounts than HSBC then? Indeed Santander may now be its closest competitor ahead of Lloyds, Barclays and RBS meaning we are exposed to a downturn in the Eurozone and Latin America too
    Lloyds does more lending, hard to imagine its share of current accounts isn't in proportion given the banks it owns.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/727348/uk-banks-gross-lending-market-share/

    HSBC doesn't make the top five.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    And adjusted for HSBC the figures show...
    HSBC is the biggest bank in the UK
    That doesn't answer the question posed by Charles.
    It is an irrelevant question as our exposure comes because our largest bank has such a big presence in the Far East.
    With all due respect @hyufd you have a tendency to just take data at face value

    Yes the gross numbers show significant exposure to China for the U.K. banking system

    Excluding HSBC the exposure is very limited

    The question is whether, when considering systemic risk for the banking system, you should just use the gross number or adjust for it

    But it is *the* question which matters

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    And adjusted for HSBC the figures show...
    HSBC is the biggest bank in the UK
    Is it?

    It might be the biggest bank holding company in the UK, but I'd be staggered if it was the biggest purveyor of loans or current accounts.
    Which other bank provides more loans and holds more UK current accounts than HSBC then? Indeed Santander may now be its closest competitor ahead of Lloyds, Barclays and RBS meaning we are exposed to a downturn in the Eurozone and Latin America too
    I don’t believe Ana has made Santander a UK bank
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,138
    edited January 2019
    FF43 said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    Brexit Global Britain is, of course, a myth. Not many people believed it, but enough did to make the difference between Leave and Remain.
    A myth believed by leavers? I'm shocked, i tell you, shocked... :)
  • FF43 said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    Brexit Global Britain is, of course, a myth. Not many people believed it, but enough did to make the difference between Leave and Remain.
    My, ah, forensic analysis of the Richard Ayoade HSBC advert has revealed he mentions 14 non-EU nations and only 8 EU nations:

    Colombia
    Guatemala
    Costa Rica
    Japan
    Taiwan
    America
    Korea (South, presumably)
    Chile
    Argentina
    Brazil
    China
    India
    Mexico
    Russia (Siberian)

    Denmark
    Germany
    Sweden
    Belgium
    Italy
    Netherlands (go Dutch)
    Hungary
    France
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    And adjusted for HSBC the figures show...
    HSBC is the biggest bank in the UK
    The point is that we have a number of banks. Unusually, though, the UK is also the domicile for HSBC and Standard Chartered which are basically China/Asia firms. Hence if you look at the stats for “U.K. banks” you feta distorted picture.

    Francopan knows that but was too lazy to check. (Knew his brother at school - much preferred their old name of De Lupis, much more evocative)
    Maybe but go to almost any High Street and you will see an HSBC branch (even after cutbacks)
    Yes. But that’s not the point of the article. (And I think Lloyds is market leader in the U.K. anyway).
  • HYUFD said:

    Which other bank provides more loans and holds more UK current accounts than HSBC then? Indeed Santander may now be its closest competitor ahead of Lloyds, Barclays and RBS meaning we are exposed to a downturn in the Eurozone and Latin America too

    In terms of UK current accounts, Lloyds has double the current accounts that HSBC does.

    IIRC Barclays and RBS have more UK current accounts than HSBC as well.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,878
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    Chris said:

    What is the PB consensus on the right time to start stockpiling food and medicine?

    Do we start when the Christmas tree goes out on Saturday night?

    Don't be too hasty about throwing out the tree. Pine needle soup could be a handy addition to the larder in the Spring.
    And there's the fuel element for when all the power stations close because they don't have some EU permit, or something.
    I dunno, my stove is finding it bloody difficult just to keep the temperature level at the moment, and I must have burned more wood than there is in the average Christmas tree this afternoon.

    However, in April it will hopefully not be so horrendously cold as it is today. My heating was on minimal frost protection an it still came on at midday!
    Its incredible given the amount of hot air being produced in this country at the moment. We should surely be able to start the cricket season next week.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    And adjusted for HSBC the figures show...
    HSBC is the biggest bank in the UK
    The point is that we have a number of banks. Unusually, though, the UK is also the domicile for HSBC and Standard Chartered which are basically China/Asia firms. Hence if you look at the stats for “U.K. banks” you feta distorted picture.

    Francopan knows that but was too lazy to check. (Knew his brother at school - much preferred their old name of De Lupis, much more evocative)
    Maybe but go to almost any High Street and you will see an HSBC branch (even after cutbacks)
    Yes. But that’s not the point of the article. (And I think Lloyds is market leader in the U.K. anyway).
    It is, then the Nationwide for loans. Barclays might be second for current accounts, but I can't find the data.
  • Charles said:

    With all due respect @hyufd you have a tendency to just take data at face value

    Yes the gross numbers show significant exposure to China for the U.K. banking system

    Excluding HSBC the exposure is very limited

    The question is whether, when considering systemic risk for the banking system, you should just use the gross number or adjust for it

    But it is *the* question which matters

    Am enjoying you and myself being educated about the banking sector and systemic risk.

    All those hours wasted at BoE, PRU, et al seminars on this stuff.

  • I'll let you into a secret. I just googled the quote from the BoE in the article :)

    Sneaky.
  • Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    And adjusted for HSBC the figures show...
    HSBC is the biggest bank in the UK
    Is it?

    It might be the biggest bank holding company in the UK, but I'd be staggered if it was the biggest purveyor of loans or current accounts.
    Which other bank provides more loans and holds more UK current accounts than HSBC then? Indeed Santander may now be its closest competitor ahead of Lloyds, Barclays and RBS meaning we are exposed to a downturn in the Eurozone and Latin America too
    I don’t believe Ana has made Santander a UK bank
    Santander UK plc (/ˌsɑːntɑːnˈdɛər/) is a British bank, wholly owned by the Spanish Santander Group. Santander UK plc manages its affairs autonomously, with its own local management team, responsible solely for its performance.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santander_UK
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,138
    edited January 2019
    Charles said:

    Knew his brother at school - much preferred their old name of "De Lupis"...

    Of...rabbits? Bees? Wee?

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Charles said:

    With all due respect @hyufd you have a tendency to just take data at face value

    Yes the gross numbers show significant exposure to China for the U.K. banking system

    Excluding HSBC the exposure is very limited

    The question is whether, when considering systemic risk for the banking system, you should just use the gross number or adjust for it

    But it is *the* question which matters

    Am enjoying you and myself being educated about the banking sector and systemic risk.

    All those hours wasted at BoE, PRU, et al seminars on this stuff.
    If you'll remember a few weeks ago he was given me inside information on teachers' pay, workload, attitudes and commuting distances.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    With all due respect @hyufd you have a tendency to just take data at face value

    Yes the gross numbers show significant exposure to China for the U.K. banking system

    Excluding HSBC the exposure is very limited

    The question is whether, when considering systemic risk for the banking system, you should just use the gross number or adjust for it

    But it is *the* question which matters

    Am enjoying you and myself being educated about the banking sector and systemic risk.

    All those hours wasted at BoE, PRU, et al seminars on this stuff.
    At least you didn’t discuss it around the kitchen table as a kid!

    (The first conversation I remember having with my day was at aged 4:

    “Say we have a company. Your brother and you own 49% and I own 51%. That means I have control”)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202
    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    And adjusted for HSBC the figures show...
    HSBC is the biggest bank in the UK
    That doesn't answer the question posed by Charles.
    It is an irrelevant question as our exposure comes because our largest bank has such a big presence in the Far East.
    With all due respect @hyufd you have a tendency to just take data at face value

    Yes the gross numbers show significant exposure to China for the U.K. banking system

    Excluding HSBC the exposure is very limited

    The question is whether, when considering systemic risk for the banking system, you should just use the gross number or adjust for it

    But it is *the* question which matters

    HSBC is the second biggest constituent of the Stock Exchange and FTSE 100 and one of the big 4 retail banks, any Chinese downturn will clearly therefore have a negative effect on the UK economy, let alone when added to Brexit as well, especially if No Deal
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202
    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    And adjusted for HSBC the figures show...
    HSBC is the biggest bank in the UK
    Is it?

    It might be the biggest bank holding company in the UK, but I'd be staggered if it was the biggest purveyor of loans or current accounts.
    Which other bank provides more loans and holds more UK current accounts than HSBC then? Indeed Santander may now be its closest competitor ahead of Lloyds, Barclays and RBS meaning we are exposed to a downturn in the Eurozone and Latin America too
    I don’t believe Ana has made Santander a UK bank
    It became a bank with a significant UK exposure when it took over Alliance and Leicester, Bradford and Bingley and Abbey National
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    It is rather exhausting trying to keep up with the ideological twist and turns of the far left, but it seems even the Trotskyists are now getting fed up with Corbyn’s pro Brexit stance.

    https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1081244824345419776?s=21
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,138
    Stupid f*****g wanky rickety old train, banging from side-to-side like a drunken train. It is not easy to type. I hate whichever franchise of BR I am on at the moment. OK, all of them. Trains are horrible. Bad trains, bad.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202

    It is rather exhausting trying to keep up with the ideological twist and turns of the far left, but it seems even the Trotskyists are now getting fed up with Corbyn’s pro Brexit stance.

    https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1081244824345419776?s=21

    Given today's Yougov showing over 50% of Tory members back No Deal both Corbyn and May are ignoring the views of most of their members on Brexit
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    viewcode said:

    Stupid f*****g wanky rickety old train, banging from side-to-side like a drunken train. It is not easy to type. I hate whichever franchise of BR I am on at the moment. OK, all of them. Trains are horrible. Bad trains, bad.

    Where are you travelling from/to?
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840

    Bernie really showed up Hillary's weakness as a candidate before she lost to Trump.

    Don't shoot the messenger, honestly. The reason the Bernie Bros hated Hillary is the same reason she lost the rust belt.

    I've only just now come to realise the irony in all the effort they went to smearing Bernie as a misogynist only for that to result in an actual misogynist inhabiting the Whitehouse.

    Some Clinton supporters got the president they deserved.
  • Right based on 2016 figures.

    Here's the share of the UK current accounts

    Lloyds Banking Group* 25%

    Barclays 18%

    RBS** 18%

    HSBC 12%

    Santander 10%

    Nationwide 7%

    TSB 4%

    Co-op 2%

    *Excludes TSB

    **Contains Williams & Glyn
  • Charles said:

    Charles said:

    With all due respect @hyufd you have a tendency to just take data at face value

    Yes the gross numbers show significant exposure to China for the U.K. banking system

    Excluding HSBC the exposure is very limited

    The question is whether, when considering systemic risk for the banking system, you should just use the gross number or adjust for it

    But it is *the* question which matters

    Am enjoying you and myself being educated about the banking sector and systemic risk.

    All those hours wasted at BoE, PRU, et al seminars on this stuff.
    At least you didn’t discuss it around the kitchen table as a kid!

    (The first conversation I remember having with my day was at aged 4:

    “Say we have a company. Your brother and you own 49% and I own 51%. That means I have control”)
    Look on the bright side, we all survived MiFID II day, which was exactly one year ago.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Bernie really showed up Hillary's weakness as a candidate before she lost to Trump.

    Don't shoot the messenger, honestly. The reason the Bernie Bros hated Hillary is the same reason she lost the rust belt.

    I've only just now come to realise the irony in all the effort they went to smearing Bernie as a misogynist only for that to result in an actual misogynist inhabiting the Whitehouse.

    Some Clinton supporters got the president they deserved.
    There were two very good, brief summaries of the 2016 contest:

    One, whom I forget the name of: 'It is clear that Trump and Clinton are both facing the only candidate they could beat.'

    Victoria Coren Mitchell: 'They are going to elect either the worst president in their history - or a worse one.'
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,138
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    Stupid f*****g wanky rickety old train, banging from side-to-side like a drunken train. It is not easy to type. I hate whichever franchise of BR I am on at the moment. OK, all of them. Trains are horrible. Bad trains, bad.

    Where are you travelling from/to?
    Not saying. However I am in South-east England and was in another part of the country earlier.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728
    viewcode said:

    Stupid f*****g wanky rickety old train, banging from side-to-side like a drunken train. It is not easy to type. I hate whichever franchise of BR I am on at the moment. OK, all of them. Trains are horrible. Bad trains, bad.

    Sorry you're having problems, but your post made me think: back in BR times (i.e. before 1994) your fellow passengers would have been very amused at the thought of you trying to type on a train!

    (Yes, I know there were portable typewriters, and early laptops. But the world has changed so much in 25 years.)

    (And that's another point: the privatised railways have now reached half the age BR reached - about 25 years compared to about 50 years. It's hard to say that the privatised railways have done better than BR in 1948 to 1973...)
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "French President Emmanuel Macron’s administration on Friday took a hard line against the demonstrators who have staged weekend invasions of Paris over the past two months, accusing the remaining protesters of being agitators “who seek insurrection and basically want to overthrow the government”"

    https://www.ft.com/content/2633b1c6-103d-11e9-acdc-4d9976f1533b
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,723
    Omnium said:

    geoffw said:

    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    Next you'll be telling us that the H and S in HSBC stands for HongKong and Shanghai.
    Midland Bank is in there somewhere. A rather unpleasant strain we'd hoped had been eradicated in the late 80s.

    There's a lot to be learned from the component parts that make up these big institutions. RBS for example has a pretty crap heart, combined with a huge stripe of plainest grey from NatWest. Even the good bits are iffy - Coutt's for example.

    Oddly today I was looking at Norda Bank. I can't see it lifting itself above its poor origins.
    What's wrong with Nordia?
    "Nordea" (sorry) has tried to get itself more exposure. They haven't made the cut for the Eurostoxx index though. They just have the usual (savings bank) banking baggage. It's hard to move away from that, and arguably its better just to stick to it (Lloyds for example).
    Ah ok, I'm just a customer. They moved their hq from Stockholm to Helsinki to be in the European banking union for regulation. They claim not to have the ambition to be in the Eirostoxx. Ok by me if they focus on retail.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    viewcode said:

    Charles said:

    Knew his brother at school - much preferred their old name of "De Lupis"...

    Of...rabbits? Bees? Wee?

    Wolves

    (But I don’t agree with their claim to the Francopan heirs and graces. I was much closer to Tommy because anyone who dedicates their life to apples can’t be all bad)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited January 2019

    viewcode said:

    Stupid f*****g wanky rickety old train, banging from side-to-side like a drunken train. It is not easy to type. I hate whichever franchise of BR I am on at the moment. OK, all of them. Trains are horrible. Bad trains, bad.

    Sorry you're having problems, but your post made me think: back in BR times (i.e. before 1994) your fellow passengers would have been very amused at the thought of you trying to type on a train!

    (Yes, I know there were portable typewriters, and early laptops. But the world has changed so much in 25 years.)

    (And that's another point: the privatised railways have now reached half the age BR reached - about 25 years compared to about 50 years. It's hard to say that the privatised railways have done better than BR in 1948 to 1973...)
    I would have said it was easy to say, bluntly. They haven't closed 30% of the network, for starters.

    Edit - to be exact they are one year short of halfway - 23 years against 48 total for BR.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,138

    viewcode said:

    Stupid f*****g wanky rickety old train, banging from side-to-side like a drunken train. It is not easy to type. I hate whichever franchise of BR I am on at the moment. OK, all of them. Trains are horrible. Bad trains, bad.

    Sorry you're having problems, but your post made me think: back in BR times (i.e. before 1994) your fellow passengers would have been very amused at the thought of you trying to type on a train!
    Fair point, and in an absolute sense there is no problem: the train will probably not crash, I probably won't be thumped, the fare is affordable, and blessings should be counted.

    However there is something about being stuck in a steel tube with loud/drunk people that make me think Thanos aimed too low... :(

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    And adjusted for HSBC the figures show...
    HSBC is the biggest bank in the UK
    Is it?

    It might be the biggest bank holding company in the UK, but I'd be staggered if it was the biggest purveyor of loans or current accounts.
    Which other bank provides more loans and holds more UK current accounts than HSBC then? Indeed Santander may now be its closest competitor ahead of Lloyds, Barclays and RBS meaning we are exposed to a downturn in the Eurozone and Latin America too
    I don’t believe Ana has made Santander a UK bank
    It became a bank with a significant UK exposure when it took over Alliance and Leicester, Bradford and Bingley and Abbey National
    Yes. But saying Santander has significant exposure to the U.K. and LatAm is not the same as saying the UK has significant exposure to LatAm

    One of the great things about this site is the level of expertise in all subjects from metal bashing to computer coding and turnips to Californian weather. Take advantage of it - you don’t need to pretend to be right about everything.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,138
    Charles said:

    viewcode said:

    Charles said:

    Knew his brother at school - much preferred their old name of "De Lupis"...

    Of...rabbits? Bees? Wee?

    Wolves
    I learn something new every day, thank you.

  • glwglw Posts: 9,914
    ydoethur said:

    There were two very good, brief summaries of the 2016 contest:

    One, whom I forget the name of: 'It is clear that Trump and Clinton are both facing the only candidate they could beat.'

    Victoria Coren Mitchell: 'They are going to elect either the worst president in their history - or a worse one.'

    I think that first quote might have originated on here, as it's the first place I read it.

    The second quote is right too. The primary system seems to always eliminate the candidates that I think are any good.

    That said as unappetising as a Hilary Clinton Presidency might have been, she was unquestionably a better choice that the raving lunatic currently stinking up the Whitehouse, as his press conference today has amply demonstrated.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728
    edited January 2019
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    Stupid f*****g wanky rickety old train, banging from side-to-side like a drunken train. It is not easy to type. I hate whichever franchise of BR I am on at the moment. OK, all of them. Trains are horrible. Bad trains, bad.

    Sorry you're having problems, but your post made me think: back in BR times (i.e. before 1994) your fellow passengers would have been very amused at the thought of you trying to type on a train!

    (Yes, I know there were portable typewriters, and early laptops. But the world has changed so much in 25 years.)

    (And that's another point: the privatised railways have now reached half the age BR reached - about 25 years compared to about 50 years. It's hard to say that the privatised railways have done better than BR in 1948 to 1973...)
    I would have said it was easy to say, bluntly. They haven't closed 30% of the network, for starters.

    Edit - to be exact they are one year short of halfway - 23 years against 48 total for BR.
    I was taking 1st April 1994 as the 'start' date of privatisation - though it was not completed for three years. If you take the date of the last BR service - 1st April 1997 - then it must be 22 years ?

    Edit: and in my original post, I meant it was hard to say that the privatised railways had not done better than BR.

    Ahem...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202
    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    And adjusted for HSBC the figures show...
    HSBC is the biggest bank in the UK
    Is it?

    It might be the biggest bank holding company in the UK, but I'd be staggered if it was the biggest purveyor of loans or current accounts.
    Which other bank provides more loans and holds more UK current accounts than HSBC then? Indeed Santander may now be its closest competitor ahead of Lloyds, Barclays and RBS meaning we are exposed to a downturn in the Eurozone and Latin America too
    I don’t believe Ana has made Santander a UK bank
    It became a bank with a significant UK exposure when it took over Alliance and Leicester, Bradford and Bingley and Abbey National
    Yes. But saying Santander has significant exposure to the U.K. and LatAm is not the same as saying the UK has significant exposure to LatAm

    One of the great things about this site is the level of expertise in all subjects from metal bashing to computer coding and turnips to Californian weather. Take advantage of it - you don’t need to pretend to be right about everything.
    Unlike you of course.

    Just dismissing the fact 2 of our 5 biggest banks now have significant exposure overseas does seem rather blase
  • glw said:

    ydoethur said:

    There were two very good, brief summaries of the 2016 contest:

    One, whom I forget the name of: 'It is clear that Trump and Clinton are both facing the only candidate they could beat.'

    Victoria Coren Mitchell: 'They are going to elect either the worst president in their history - or a worse one.'

    I think that first quote might have originated on here, as it's the first place I read it.

    The second quote is right too. The primary system seems to always eliminate the candidates that I think are any good.

    That said as unappetising as a Hilary Clinton Presidency might have been, she was unquestionably a better choice that the raving lunatic currently stinking up the Whitehouse, as his press conference today has amply demonstrated.
    It was me who said it in a thread header.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    And adjusted for HSBC the figures show...
    HSBC is the biggest bank in the UK
    Is it?

    It might be the biggest bank holding company in the UK, but I'd be staggered if it was the biggest purveyor of loans or current accounts.
    Which other bank provides more loans and holds more UK current accounts than HSBC then? Indeed Santander may now be its closest competitor ahead of Lloyds, Barclays and RBS meaning we are exposed to a downturn in the Eurozone and Latin America too
    I don’t believe Ana has made Santander a UK bank
    It became a bank with a significant UK exposure when it took over Alliance and Leicester, Bradford and Bingley and Abbey National
    Yes. But saying Santander has significant exposure to the U.K. and LatAm is not the same as saying the UK has significant exposure to LatAm

    One of the great things about this site is the level of expertise in all subjects from metal bashing to computer coding and turnips to Californian weather. Take advantage of it - you don’t need to pretend to be right about everything.
    Unlike you of course.

    Just dismissing the fact 2 of our 5 biggest banks now have significant exposure overseas does seem rather blase
    I don’t know everything about everything.

    But I know more than the average bear about drugs and banking
  • glwglw Posts: 9,914

    It was me who said it in a thread header.

    It is a very good summary of the choice that faced the American electorate, but they sure as hell deserved better.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    Stupid f*****g wanky rickety old train, banging from side-to-side like a drunken train. It is not easy to type. I hate whichever franchise of BR I am on at the moment. OK, all of them. Trains are horrible. Bad trains, bad.

    Sorry you're having problems, but your post made me think: back in BR times (i.e. before 1994) your fellow passengers would have been very amused at the thought of you trying to type on a train!

    (Yes, I know there were portable typewriters, and early laptops. But the world has changed so much in 25 years.)

    (And that's another point: the privatised railways have now reached half the age BR reached - about 25 years compared to about 50 years. It's hard to say that the privatised railways have done better than BR in 1948 to 1973...)
    I would have said it was easy to say, bluntly. They haven't closed 30% of the network, for starters.

    Edit - to be exact they are one year short of halfway - 23 years against 48 total for BR.
    I was taking 1st April 1994 as the 'start' date of privatisation - though it was not completed for three years. If you take the date of the last BR service - 1st April 1997 - then it must be 22 years ?

    Edit: and in my original post, I meant it was hard to say that the privatised railways had not done better than BR.

    Ahem...
    I did wonder. A loss of 30% of the network, 55% of stations, passenger numbers steadily declining and a botched modernisation programme in the 1950s plus an abrupt and ill-managed transition from steam to diesel was the record of BR in 1970.

    It did in fairness improve somewhat after that, but as you eventually said, the privatised railway has a much better record - including a much better safety record, of course (Harrow alone would surely exceed all the death toll of the privatised network).
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,895
    edited January 2019
    viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    Stupid f*****g wanky rickety old train, banging from side-to-side like a drunken train. It is not easy to type. I hate whichever franchise of BR I am on at the moment. OK, all of them. Trains are horrible. Bad trains, bad.

    Where are you travelling from/to?
    Not saying. However I am in South-east England and was in another part of the country earlier.
    I thought it might have been a Pacer* in Northern England or Wales or the Southwest!


    (* those diesel railcars built from modified bus bodies with only two axles per carriage!)
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    edited January 2019
    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    And adjusted for HSBC the figures show...
    HSBC is the biggest bank in the UK
    Is it?

    It might be the biggest bank holding company in the UK, but I'd be staggered if it was the biggest purveyor of loans or current accounts.
    Which other bank provides more loans and holds more UK current accounts than HSBC then? Indeed Santander may now be its closest competitor ahead of Lloyds, Barclays and RBS meaning we are exposed to a downturn in the Eurozone and Latin America too
    I don’t believe Ana has made Santander a UK bank
    It became a bank with a significant UK exposure when it took over Alliance and Leicester, Bradford and Bingley and Abbey National
    Yes. But saying Santander has significant exposure to the U.K. and LatAm is not the same as saying the UK has significant exposure to LatAm

    One of the great things about this site is the level of expertise in all subjects from metal bashing to computer coding and turnips to Californian weather. Take advantage of it - you don’t need to pretend to be right about everything.
    I am not a banker, but did the UK govt not mandate that after the GFC all UK subs of non UK owned banks have to be capitalised primarily in Sterling and that they could not return 1p to the overseas HQ without approval?
    Meaning that if non UK owned bank had large exposure to Lat Am that went sour the UK sub could not be drained of hard cash to bail out non UK HQ, unlike what happened in the GFC with US banks?
  • ydoethur said:

    (Harrow alone would surely exceed all the death toll of the privatised network).

    Wealdstone, ahem! Harrow is on the Met and GCR route :)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    It is astonishing to reflect that it is now twelve years since a passenger on a train died on the railway network in this country (Grayrigg).

    And even if we widen it to include drivers killed by trains, bystanders, etc, it's nearly five years since the last fatality and there have only been three in that eleven year stretch.

    Whatever their faults, safety is one thing the privatised network really has got right in the last few years.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    FPT

    malcolmg said:

    What about British nationalism?
    An oft heard cry from Labour Unionists during the indy ref was that Scottish independence would make family foreigners (Tony Benn & Margaret Curran spring to mind as producers of that sort of guff). Why is being a foreigner so bad, and why should a Glasgow scaffolder feel more internationalist solidarity with one from Gloucester than he would with ones from Galway or Göttingen?

    Because the common man in Berwickshire and the common man in Northumberland are culturally and linguistically one and the same.
    Hmmmm, you listening to Land of Hope and Glory as you post that. Utter bollox.
    In what way is it ‘utter bollox’? Your xenophobic anti-english sentiment is blinding you to the truth.
    Good news for British nationalists. A "think tank" has declared that the UK is the second most powerful nation in the world.

    https://henryjacksonsociety.org/publications/geopoliticalcapabilityaudit/
    I’m not a ‘British nationalist’. I mearly stated that folk in the Scottish borders are no different culturally or linguistically from folk in Cumbria or Northumberland. In what ways do you think i’m wrong?
    Do you come from the borders? Either side?

    They are both culturally and linguistically distinct.
  • Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    And adjusted for HSBC the figures show...
    HSBC is the biggest bank in the UK
    Is it?

    It might be the biggest bank holding company in the UK, but I'd be staggered if it was the biggest purveyor of loans or current accounts.
    Which other bank provides more loans and holds more UK current accounts than HSBC then? Indeed Santander may now be its closest competitor ahead of Lloyds, Barclays and RBS meaning we are exposed to a downturn in the Eurozone and Latin America too
    I don’t believe Ana has made Santander a UK bank
    It became a bank with a significant UK exposure when it took over Alliance and Leicester, Bradford and Bingley and Abbey National
    Yes. But saying Santander has significant exposure to the U.K. and LatAm is not the same as saying the UK has significant exposure to LatAm

    One of the great things about this site is the level of expertise in all subjects from metal bashing to computer coding and turnips to Californian weather. Take advantage of it - you don’t need to pretend to be right about everything.
    I am not a banker
    Are you a referee? :lol:
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728
    edited January 2019
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    Stupid f*****g wanky rickety old train, banging from side-to-side like a drunken train. It is not easy to type. I hate whichever franchise of BR I am on at the moment. OK, all of them. Trains are horrible. Bad trains, bad.

    Sorry you're having problems, but your post made me think: back in BR times (i.e. before 1994) your fellow passengers would have been very amused at the thought of you trying to type on a train!

    (Yes, I know there were portable typewriters, and early laptops. But the world has changed so much in 25 years.)

    (And that's another point: the privatised railways have now reached half the age BR reached - about 25 years compared to about 50 years. It's hard to say that the privatised railways have done better than BR in 1948 to 1973...)
    I would have said it was easy to say, bluntly. They haven't closed 30% of the network, for starters.

    Edit - to be exact they are one year short of halfway - 23 years against 48 total for BR.
    I was taking 1st April 1994 as the 'start' date of privatisation - though it was not completed for three years. If you take the date of the last BR service - 1st April 1997 - then it must be 22 years ?

    Edit: and in my original post, I meant it was hard to say that the privatised railways had not done better than BR.

    Ahem...
    I did wonder. A loss of 30% of the network, 55% of stations, passenger numbers steadily declining and a botched modernisation programme in the 1950s plus an abrupt and ill-managed transition from steam to diesel was the record of BR in 1970.

    It did in fairness improve somewhat after that, but as you eventually said, the privatised railway has a much better record - including a much better safety record, of course (Harrow alone would surely exceed all the death toll of the privatised network).
    Agree with all that.

    As it happens, there's nothing new under the sun: when looking into the chaos and mess that is the current electrification program for the railways, I discovered that the electrification of the southern part of the West Coast line in the 1960s was also very problematic.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    (Harrow alone would surely exceed all the death toll of the privatised network).

    Wealdstone, ahem! Harrow is on the Met and GCR route :)
    O S Nock just calls it Harrow. How am I supposed to know better? I spend my life in interesting places, not overpriced shitholes.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,469
    edited January 2019
    Alistair said:

    FPT

    malcolmg said:

    What about British nationalism?
    An oft heard cry from Labour Unionists during the indy ref was that Scottish independence would make family foreigners (Tony Benn & Margaret Curran spring to mind as producers of that sort of guff). Why is being a foreigner so bad, and why should a Glasgow scaffolder feel more internationalist solidarity with one from Gloucester than he would with ones from Galway or Göttingen?

    Because the common man in Berwickshire and the common man in Northumberland are culturally and linguistically one and the same.
    Hmmmm, you listening to Land of Hope and Glory as you post that. Utter bollox.
    In what way is it ‘utter bollox’? Your xenophobic anti-english sentiment is blinding you to the truth.
    Good news for British nationalists. A "think tank" has declared that the UK is the second most powerful nation in the world.

    https://henryjacksonsociety.org/publications/geopoliticalcapabilityaudit/
    I’m not a ‘British nationalist’. I mearly stated that folk in the Scottish borders are no different culturally or linguistically from folk in Cumbria or Northumberland. In what ways do you think i’m wrong?
    Do you come from the borders? Either side?

    They are both culturally and linguistically distinct.
    I live on the Northumberland - Newcastle border and spend a lot of time in Northumberland and the borders.

    I disagree with your assertion.

    In fact I believe you make your assertion for politicial reasons only.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951

    viewcode said:

    Stupid f*****g wanky rickety old train, banging from side-to-side like a drunken train. It is not easy to type. I hate whichever franchise of BR I am on at the moment. OK, all of them. Trains are horrible. Bad trains, bad.

    Sorry you're having problems, but your post made me think: back in BR times (i.e. before 1994) your fellow passengers would have been very amused at the thought of you trying to type on a train!

    (Yes, I know there were portable typewriters, and early laptops. But the world has changed so much in 25 years.)

    (And that's another point: the privatised railways have now reached half the age BR reached - about 25 years compared to about 50 years. It's hard to say that the privatised railways have done better than BR in 1948 to 1973...)
    My dad had a laptop in '94 and one of those great big analogue brick phones. In fact I remember him having those from about 1990...

    Until recently I thought we were living in an era of unprecedented technological change, then I realise that not much has really changed in my lifetime except computers have gotten faster and we have the internet now.

    The train you travel on today isn't all that much different to the train you travelled on 25 years ago. Indeed, I believe some of the old 70s 125 HSTs are still in service! The world's premier form of travel, the jet aircraft, first flew in 1949 (the De Havilland Comet) and while improvements have been made since then, it is fundamentally a technology developed in the second world war, a time so long ago that few people are even alive who remember it.

    Is a 2018 Tesla really that different from a 1994 Ford Mondeo? Yes, of course it's not the same. But are we living in an era of *unprecedented* change? Consider the leap from the horse and cart to the first motor car. From an agrarian society to an urban one, from fields and fiefdoms to factories and industry.

    I started thinking this after reading a book by Peter Thiel, where he posits that society puttered along without much change for ten thousand years or so, then technology advanced rapidly from around 1760 to 1970. But technological advancement has stalled since then.

    I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but it's interesting to look around and think about how much of the tech we have is actually really, really old.

  • ydoethur said:

    It is astonishing to reflect that it is now twelve years since a passenger on a train died on the railway network in this country (Grayrigg).

    And even if we widen it to include drivers killed by trains, bystanders, etc, it's nearly five years since the last fatality and there have only been three in that eleven year stretch.

    Whatever their faults, safety is one thing the privatised network really has got right in the last few years.

    There was Croydon, sadly. I know it's not the National Rail network, but Trams still run on rails.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Croydon_tram_derailment
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,781

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:



    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.

    of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    And adjusted for HSBC the figures show...
    HSBC is the biggest bank in the UK
    Is it?

    It might be the biggest bank holding company in the UK, but I'd be staggered if it was the biggest purveyor of loans or current accounts.
    Which other bank provides more loans and holds more UK current accounts than HSBC then? Indeed Santander may now be its closest competitor ahead of Lloyds, Barclays and RBS meaning we are exposed to a downturn in the Eurozone and Latin America too
    I don’t believe Ana has made Santander a UK bank
    It became a bank with a significant UK exposure when it took over Alliance and Leicester, Bradford and Bingley and Abbey National
    Yes. But saying Santander has significant exposure to the U.K. and LatAm is not the same as saying the UK has significant exposure to LatAm

    One of the great things about this site is the level of expertise in all subjects from metal bashing to computer coding and turnips to Californian weather. Take advantage of it - you don’t need to pretend to be right about everything.
    I am not a banker, but did the UK govt not mandate that after the GFC all UK subs of non UK owned banks have to be capitalised primarily in Sterling and that they could not return 1p to the overseas HQ without approval?
    Meaning that if non UK owned bank had large exposure to Lat Am that went sour the UK sub could not be drained of hard cash to bail out non UK HQ, unlike what happened in the GFC with US banks?
    I think its been a long-standing rule that deposit takers in the UK have effectively to have separately capitalised UK branches. There was probably some constraint about whether funds used for that could be moved quickly elsewhere.

    It's certainly the case that the 'safe' capital required by any bank has risen quite substantially.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    glw said:

    ydoethur said:

    There were two very good, brief summaries of the 2016 contest:

    One, whom I forget the name of: 'It is clear that Trump and Clinton are both facing the only candidate they could beat.'

    Victoria Coren Mitchell: 'They are going to elect either the worst president in their history - or a worse one.'

    I think that first quote might have originated on here, as it's the first place I read it.

    The second quote is right too. The primary system seems to always eliminate the candidates that I think are any good.

    That said as unappetising as a Hilary Clinton Presidency might have been, she was unquestionably a better choice that the raving lunatic currently stinking up the Whitehouse, as his press conference today has amply demonstrated.
    It was me who said it in a thread header.
    It was a wonderful summary. I couldn't for the life of me remember where I'd seen it, and Google failed me.
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,543
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Stupid f*****g wanky rickety old train, banging from side-to-side like a drunken train. It is not easy to type. I hate whichever franchise of BR I am on at the moment. OK, all of them. Trains are horrible. Bad trains, bad.

    Sorry you're having problems, but your post made me think: back in BR times (i.e. before 1994) your fellow passengers would have been very amused at the thought of you trying to type on a train!
    Fair point, and in an absolute sense there is no problem: the train will probably not crash, I probably won't be thumped, the fare is affordable, and blessings should be counted.

    However there is something about being stuck in a steel tube with loud/drunk people that make me think Thanos aimed too low... :(

    The fare is affordable? Has the propaganda earlier this week on fare increases been economical with the actualités?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    It is astonishing to reflect that it is now twelve years since a passenger on a train died on the railway network in this country (Grayrigg).

    And even if we widen it to include drivers killed by trains, bystanders, etc, it's nearly five years since the last fatality and there have only been three in that eleven year stretch.

    Whatever their faults, safety is one thing the privatised network really has got right in the last few years.

    There was Croydon, sadly. I know it's not the National Rail network, but Trams still run on rails.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Croydon_tram_derailment
    True, and grievous, but that's not part of the railway network. And I wasn't counting murders.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728
    ydoethur said:

    It is astonishing to reflect that it is now twelve years since a passenger on a train died on the railway network in this country (Grayrigg).

    And even if we widen it to include drivers killed by trains, bystanders, etc, it's nearly five years since the last fatality and there have only been three in that eleven year stretch.

    Whatever their faults, safety is one thing the privatised network really has got right in the last few years.

    On the heavy rail network at least: there was the Croydon tragedy on the trams a year or two ago. But then trams aren't really proper 'railways'.

    (Runs from Sunil)

    Safety has got so good, ISTR that Network Rail are suffering more incidents from people driving to and from work than in workplace incidents, and have instituted campaigns to lessen that.

    Then again, it is easy to get complacent: just reading the RAIB bulletins shows how many incidents could have led to fatalities, but did not just because one thing went right...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,138

    ydoethur said:

    It is astonishing to reflect that it is now twelve years since a passenger on a train died on the railway network in this country (Grayrigg).

    And even if we widen it to include drivers killed by trains, bystanders, etc, it's nearly five years since the last fatality and there have only been three in that eleven year stretch.

    Whatever their faults, safety is one thing the privatised network really has got right in the last few years.

    There was Croydon, sadly. I know it's not the National Rail network, but Trams still run on rails.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Croydon_tram_derailment
    Yeah, but trams. Trams are a telepod accident that occurred when a bus was transported with a train. There is no Thomas the Tram Engine. Betjeman did not wax rhapsodic about trams.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    ydoethur said:



    One, whom I forget the name of: 'It is clear that Trump and Clinton are both facing the only candidate they could beat.'

    Substitute the names of May and Corbyn, and you would be talking about the next UK general election.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,138
    viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    It is astonishing to reflect that it is now twelve years since a passenger on a train died on the railway network in this country (Grayrigg).

    And even if we widen it to include drivers killed by trains, bystanders, etc, it's nearly five years since the last fatality and there have only been three in that eleven year stretch.

    Whatever their faults, safety is one thing the privatised network really has got right in the last few years.

    There was Croydon, sadly. I know it's not the National Rail network, but Trams still run on rails.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Croydon_tram_derailment
    Yeah, but trams. Trams are a telepod accident that occurred when a bus was transported with a train. There is no Thomas the Tram Engine. Betjeman did not wax rhapsodic about trams.
    It occurs to me that I am effectively trolling transport modes at this point. I shall shut up and let you all talk about Brexit or whateva...:-)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728
    kyf_100 said:

    My dad had a laptop in '94 and one of those great big analogue brick phones. In fact I remember him having those from about 1990...

    Until recently I thought we were living in an era of unprecedented technological change, then I realise that not much has really changed in my lifetime except computers have gotten faster and we have the internet now.

    The train you travel on today isn't all that much different to the train you travelled on 25 years ago. Indeed, I believe some of the old 70s 125 HSTs are still in service! The world's premier form of travel, the jet aircraft, first flew in 1949 (the De Havilland Comet) and while improvements have been made since then, it is fundamentally a technology developed in the second world war, a time so long ago that few people are even alive who remember it.

    Is a 2018 Tesla really that different from a 1994 Ford Mondeo? Yes, of course it's not the same. But are we living in an era of *unprecedented* change? Consider the leap from the horse and cart to the first motor car. From an agrarian society to an urban one, from fields and fiefdoms to factories and industry.

    I started thinking this after reading a book by Peter Thiel, where he posits that society puttered along without much change for ten thousand years or so, then technology advanced rapidly from around 1760 to 1970. But technological advancement has stalled since then.

    I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but it's interesting to look around and think about how much of the tech we have is actually really, really old.

    All good points. As I've said many times,, my great-grandaad lived (I think!) from the 1880s to the 1970s. He saw so much change: tekephones (though not telegraph), movies, IC cars, flight, supersonic flight/the jet age, the space age, radio, television, etc, etc.

    Lifestyles changed completely in the west during that time. My granddad bought a small holiday home to escape to with his family whenever he could. He lived in Derby, and the home was near the Trent, a few miles to the south. Nowadays people go to their holiday homes from London to Wales or Devon. But that was as far as was practical for him to go.
  • viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    It is astonishing to reflect that it is now twelve years since a passenger on a train died on the railway network in this country (Grayrigg).

    And even if we widen it to include drivers killed by trains, bystanders, etc, it's nearly five years since the last fatality and there have only been three in that eleven year stretch.

    Whatever their faults, safety is one thing the privatised network really has got right in the last few years.

    There was Croydon, sadly. I know it's not the National Rail network, but Trams still run on rails.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Croydon_tram_derailment
    Yeah, but trams. Trams are a telepod accident that occurred when a bus was transported with a train. There is no Thomas the Tram Engine. Betjeman did not wax rhapsodic about trams.
    They run on rails. Trams do run outside built-up areas too. Here is the Croydon Tramlink route near a station called Beddington Lane.

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Beddington_Lane_tramstop_look_west_2014_01.JPG
    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Beddington_Lane_tramstop_look_west2_2014.JPG
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,728
    viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    It is astonishing to reflect that it is now twelve years since a passenger on a train died on the railway network in this country (Grayrigg).

    And even if we widen it to include drivers killed by trains, bystanders, etc, it's nearly five years since the last fatality and there have only been three in that eleven year stretch.

    Whatever their faults, safety is one thing the privatised network really has got right in the last few years.

    There was Croydon, sadly. I know it's not the National Rail network, but Trams still run on rails.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Croydon_tram_derailment
    Yeah, but trams. Trams are a telepod accident that occurred when a bus was transported with a train. There is no Thomas the Tram Engine. Betjeman did not wax rhapsodic about trams.
    Actually, one of the most featured Thomas characters is a tram: Toby.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toby_the_Tram_Engine

    (Actually based on a Wisbech and Upwell engine, which was a very peculiar but lovely line.)
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    FPT

    malcolmg said:

    What about British nationalism?
    An oft heard cry from Labour Unionists during the indy ref was that Scottish independence would make family foreigners (Tony Benn & Margaret Curran spring to mind as producers of that sort of guff). Why is being a foreigner so bad, and why should a Glasgow scaffolder feel more internationalist solidarity with one from Gloucester than he would with ones from Galway or Göttingen?

    Because the common man in Berwickshire and the common man in Northumberland are culturally and linguistically one and the same.
    Hmmmm, you listening to Land of Hope and Glory as you post that. Utter bollox.
    In what way is it ‘utter bollox’? Your xenophobic anti-english sentiment is blinding you to the truth.
    Good news for British nationalists. A "think tank" has declared that the UK is the second most powerful nation in the world.

    https://henryjacksonsociety.org/publications/geopoliticalcapabilityaudit/
    I’m not a ‘British nationalist’. I mearly stated that folk in the Scottish borders are no different culturally or linguistically from folk in Cumbria or Northumberland. In what ways do you think i’m wrong?
    Do you come from the borders? Either side?

    They are both culturally and linguistically distinct.
    I live on the Northumberland - Newcastle border and spend a lot of time in Northumberland and the borders.

    I disagree with your assertion.

    In fact I believe you make your assertion for politicial reasons only.
    Look I am a Borderer born and bred and whilst I will admit that Kelso is practically England the idea that Gala or even Langholm is linguistically similar to Carlisle is a non starter.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited January 2019
    viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    It is astonishing to reflect that it is now twelve years since a passenger on a train died on the railway network in this country (Grayrigg).

    And even if we widen it to include drivers killed by trains, bystanders, etc, it's nearly five years since the last fatality and there have only been three in that eleven year stretch.

    Whatever their faults, safety is one thing the privatised network really has got right in the last few years.

    There was Croydon, sadly. I know it's not the National Rail network, but Trams still run on rails.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Croydon_tram_derailment
    Yeah, but trams. Trams are a telepod accident that occurred when a bus was transported with a train. There is no Thomas the Tram Engine. Betjeman did not wax rhapsodic about trams.
    There is a tram in Thomas the Tank Engine - Toby.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited January 2019

    kyf_100 said:

    My dad had a laptop in '94 and one of those great big analogue brick phones. In fact I remember him having those from about 1990...

    Until recently I thought we were living in an era of unprecedented technological change, then I realise that not much has really changed in my lifetime except computers have gotten faster and we have the internet now.

    The train you travel on today isn't all that much different to the train you travelled on 25 years ago. Indeed, I believe some of the old 70s 125 HSTs are still in service! The world's premier form of travel, the jet aircraft, first flew in 1949 (the De Havilland Comet) and while improvements have been made since then, it is fundamentally a technology developed in the second world war, a time so long ago that few people are even alive who remember it.

    Is a 2018 Tesla really that different from a 1994 Ford Mondeo? Yes, of course it's not the same. But are we living in an era of *unprecedented* change? Consider the leap from the horse and cart to the first motor car. From an agrarian society to an urban one, from fields and fiefdoms to factories and industry.

    I started thinking this after reading a book by Peter Thiel, where he posits that society puttered along without much change for ten thousand years or so, then technology advanced rapidly from around 1760 to 1970. But technological advancement has stalled since then.

    I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but it's interesting to look around and think about how much of the tech we have is actually really, really old.

    All good points. As I've said many times,, my great-grandaad lived (I think!) from the 1880s to the 1970s. He saw so much change: tekephones (though not telegraph), movies, IC cars, flight, supersonic flight/the jet age, the space age, radio, television, etc, etc.

    Lifestyles changed completely in the west during that time. My granddad bought a small holiday home to escape to with his family whenever he could. He lived in Derby, and the home was near the Trent, a few miles to the south. Nowadays people go to their holiday homes from London to Wales or Devon. But that was as far as was practical for him to go.
    At the time the family was headed by a duumvirate (crap system which we’ve banned now). They used to rotate, spending 6 months living over the shop and 6 months living in the family home

    The house is 2 hours drive away today but was completely impracticable to go there more than once or twice a year.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,138

    viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    It is astonishing to reflect that it is now twelve years since a passenger on a train died on the railway network in this country (Grayrigg).

    And even if we widen it to include drivers killed by trains, bystanders, etc, it's nearly five years since the last fatality and there have only been three in that eleven year stretch.

    Whatever their faults, safety is one thing the privatised network really has got right in the last few years.

    There was Croydon, sadly. I know it's not the National Rail network, but Trams still run on rails.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Croydon_tram_derailment
    Yeah, but trams. Trams are a telepod accident that occurred when a bus was transported with a train. There is no Thomas the Tram Engine. Betjeman did not wax rhapsodic about trams.
    Actually, one of the most featured Thomas characters is a tram: Toby.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toby_the_Tram_Engine

    (Actually based on a Wisbech and Upwell engine, which was a very peculiar but lovely line.)
    I did not know that, thank you.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    It is astonishing to reflect that it is now twelve years since a passenger on a train died on the railway network in this country (Grayrigg).

    And even if we widen it to include drivers killed by trains, bystanders, etc, it's nearly five years since the last fatality and there have only been three in that eleven year stretch.

    Whatever their faults, safety is one thing the privatised network really has got right in the last few years.

    There was Croydon, sadly. I know it's not the National Rail network, but Trams still run on rails.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Croydon_tram_derailment
    True, and grievous, but that's not part of the railway network. And I wasn't counting murders.
    Trams still run on rails.

    1. They are shown on the Joe Brown atlas of London

    2. They are shown on Stuart Baker's atlas of GB and Ireland

    3. Yours truly has done Croydon Tramlink, Sheffield Supertram, Midland Metro, Manchester Metrolink, Nottingham Tram, Blackpool Tram and the Edinburgh Tram as part of his efforts to do the GB rail network.

This discussion has been closed.