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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why changes to the primary structure are going to make WH2020

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    RobD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic.

    An agreement which she cannot get past her own party let alone the House of Commons. The EU aren't interested in reaching an agreement with Mrs May. They want an agreement with Britain.

    So the grey-suited ones need to tell her to revoke Article 50 (which ain.

    Frankly,on the rest of us?

    For the love of God, something as important as how we patrol our sea borders to prevent undesirables (by which I mean criminals and terrorists not some desperate Iranians) from entering the country is not dealt with as an important matter of public policy but as background to one politician's ambitions. It is pathetic. It is utterly negligent. And it is potentially dangerous for the rest of us.

    So, yes, I am absolutely fucking furious with our politicians. How the fuck dare they mess with my childrens' futures because they cannot fucking grow up and behave like the fucking adults they are meant to be.

    (Apologies - sometimes only swearing will do.)
    Welcome to the club, Cyclefree.
    Some of us have been making these points for over two years now, and called “Remoaners” and “Traitors” for our pains.

    The Tory party has become utterly contemptible. Major’s coneline cock-ups look like an Augustan age of wise leadership.
    I have been in the club for some time. But I had hoped that sense would prevail. Now I've lost patience. Tories - the patriotic party: what an absolute joke!

    In the words of Terry Thomas, they are all an absolute shower. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oU_HFZ2Tr0

    Yes, the Conservative party's claim to be the party of patriotism and business has died quite a dramatic death over the last two years or so. The patriotism thing was always a stretch, but the Tories becoming so anti-business really is a genuine shock. I must admit to totally underestimating the swivel-eyed zealotry that existed in the Blue corner. I always thought it was largely a Red thing.

    Historically it is actually the Liberals and their predecessors the Whigs who were the party of business, merchants and traders and free trade. The Tories were the party of the monarchy and the landed gentry and at times under Joseph Chamberlain or Disraeli even outright protectionist and pro tariff. It was only with universal suffrage and when Labour overtook the Liberals the Tories became the party of business fearful of the new socialist Labour opposition and their trade union allies
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet another OGH anti Bernie thread.

    The fact remains Iowa and New Hampshire still vote first before other states and Sanders won New Hampshire in 2016 and lost Iowa by less than 1%. If he wins both he will almost certainly be nominee as all the momentum will be his, no candidate in post war history has won Iowa and New Hampshire and failed to be nominee.

    As for Harris she is yet another California coastal liberal who would lose the rustbelt and the Electoral College, little better than Warren. O'Rourke really needed to have beaten Cruz not lost to have a chance

    By spring of 2020, the US Democrats might be looking at the UK rejecting Corbyn twice - and think to themselves "Old Lefties? Nah......."
    The next UK general election is not due until 2022, the next US Presidential election is is 2020.

    It is not impossible President Sanders could be elected in 2020 paving the way for PM Corbyn or vice versa.

    After all UK and US politics is often in sync e.g. Wilson and LBJ, Heath and Nixon, Callaghan and Carter, Thatcher and Reagan, Bush and Major, Blair and Clinton etc
    It's a brave man who thinks the next UK election will be in 2022.....
    I can't see tMay calling one early and LAB simply does not have the MP numbers.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Chris said:

    Chris said:

    No, but seriously, only 30% of our food comes from the EU, so even in the worst case scenario it would probably be several weeks before there was any question of starvation.

    Reassuring.
    If only the Brexiters had used this as a campaign message, the margin would definitely have been larger.
    Of course I am assuming that a combination of congestion at the ports and panic-buying doesn't empty the supermarket shelves immediately.

    But even then, starvation won't affect those of us with private food stockpiles. For several weeks.
    You could pursue Henry de Broncker's strategy?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet another OGH anti Bernie thread.

    The fact remains Iowa and New Hampshire still vote first before other states and Sanders won New Hampshire in 2016 and lost Iowa by less than 1%. If he wins both he will almost certainly be nominee as all the momentum will be his, no candidate in post war history has won Iowa and New Hampshire and failed to be nominee.

    As for Harris she is yet another California coastal liberal who would lose the rustbelt and the Electoral College, little better than Warren. O'Rourke really needed to have beaten Cruz not lost to have a chance

    By spring of 2020, the US Democrats might be looking at the UK rejecting Corbyn twice - and think to themselves "Old Lefties? Nah......."
    The next UK general election is not due until 2022, the next US Presidential election is is 2020.

    It is not impossible President Sanders could be elected in 2020 paving the way for PM Corbyn or vice versa.

    After all UK and US politics is often in sync e.g. Wilson and LBJ, Heath and Nixon, Callaghan and Carter, Thatcher and Reagan, Bush and Major, Blair and Clinton etc
    Trump and May? Even I wouldn't put her that duplicitous.
    Could be Boris and Trump by then
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,009
    Cicero said:

    Chris said:

    No, but seriously, only 30% of our food comes from the EU, so even in the worst case scenario it would probably be several weeks before there was any question of starvation.

    What kind of government would think that "any question of starvation" was a successful policy? The same kind of government whose incompetence has crucified business investment for the past two years and STILL cant give firm answers to critical questions... I have been waiting 2 years to know what legal framework I can use for my business and the revolving door at DExEU is no further forward than it was 12 months ago.

    The Conservative government is a shambolic disgrace and actually I don't trust them not to F*** up on even the simple and most basic decisions, vide this latest balls up where they have awarded a ferry contract to a bunch of extremely dubious figures with a very questionable track record.

    How on God's green earth can Labour be worse than this utter shower? Answer: Blo*dy Corbyn!!

    The latest drivel of the majority of Tories supporting "No deal", Look, most of them are Care Home Conservatives who think Boris Johnson is a serious politician FFS.

    So while at least we can hold off starvation for a few weeks, I personally would be stocking up on canned food and shotguns.

    But that's the worst case scenario. (OK, apart from the worse one I mentioned.)

    And remember that Andrea Leadsom is already working on a plan to save us all.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet another OGH anti Bernie thread.

    The fact remains Iowa and New Hampshire still vote first before other states and Sanders won New Hampshire in 2016 and lost Iowa by less than 1%. If he wins both he will almost certainly be nominee as all the momentum will be his, no candidate in post war history has won Iowa and New Hampshire and failed to be nominee.

    As for Harris she is yet another California coastal liberal who would lose the rustbelt and the Electoral College, little better than Warren. O'Rourke really needed to have beaten Cruz not lost to have a chance

    By spring of 2020, the US Democrats might be looking at the UK rejecting Corbyn twice - and think to themselves "Old Lefties? Nah......."
    The next UK general election is not due until 2022, the next US Presidential election is is 2020.

    It is not impossible President Sanders could be elected in 2020 paving the way for PM Corbyn or vice versa.

    After all UK and US politics is often in sync e.g. Wilson and LBJ, Heath and Nixon, Callaghan and Carter, Thatcher and Reagan, Bush and Major, Blair and Clinton etc
    It's a brave man who thinks the next UK election will be in 2022.....
    I can't see tMay calling one early and LAB simply does not have the MP numbers.
    Plan A in the Tory Party was always that May was gone after Brexit. Unless the polls take a turn for the worse, I can see a new PM wanting to try and get a honeymoon-period majority.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    TBF, he does have a point, both geographically and politically. Having bankers say that leaving the EU would be a disaster for them was with hindsight one of Remain's less intelligent moves.
  • Spoke to quite a few on the Côte D'Azur.

    Positively Roger-esque!
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 2,181
    ydoethur said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    TBF, he does have a point, both geographically and politically. Having bankers say that leaving the EU would be a disaster for them was with hindsight one of Remain's less intelligent moves.
    Would be a bit more convincing if so many City types had not been major donors to the Tories
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    Is that advert also appearing on bus stops in Mansfield?
    Let's wait for the China slow down to bite shall we?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 2,181
    Chris said:

    Cicero said:

    Chris said:

    No, but seriously, only 30% of our food comes from the EU, so even in the worst case scenario it would probably be several weeks before there was any question of starvation.

    What kind of government would think that "any question of starvation" was a successful policy? The same kind of government whose incompetence has crucified business investment for the past two years and STILL cant give firm answers to critical questions... I have been waiting 2 years to know what legal framework I can use for my business and the revolving door at DExEU is no further forward than it was 12 months ago.

    The Conservative government is a shambolic disgrace and actually I don't trust them not to F*** up on even the simple and most basic decisions, vide this latest balls up where they have awarded a ferry contract to a bunch of extremely dubious figures with a very questionable track record.

    How on God's green earth can Labour be worse than this utter shower? Answer: Blo*dy Corbyn!!

    The latest drivel of the majority of Tories supporting "No deal", Look, most of them are Care Home Conservatives who think Boris Johnson is a serious politician FFS.

    So while at least we can hold off starvation for a few weeks, I personally would be stocking up on canned food and shotguns.

    But that's the worst case scenario. (OK, apart from the worse one I mentioned.)

    And remember that Andrea Leadsom is already working on a plan to save us all.
    Holy F***, We're doomed...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    Cicero said:

    ydoethur said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    TBF, he does have a point, both geographically and politically. Having bankers say that leaving the EU would be a disaster for them was with hindsight one of Remain's less intelligent moves.
    Would be a bit more convincing if so many City types had not been major donors to the Tories
    The Brexiteers Tories should call in that favour at the next election. They need to have bankers all over the airwaves explaining how Corbyn's policies would make them all filthy rich.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic.

    It has been interesting reading the comments from all sides this morning regarding the No Dealers.
    ...
    Whilst I don't necessarily believe the doomsday scenarios about Brexit, I do think a negotiated settlement is far better but I do fear that the Remainers and Dealers are currently in denial about the unruffled fanaticism of the No Dealers.

    I suspect that tin-eared Tess will take us over the edge. I am resigned to No-Deal Brexit happening.
    I am not resigned to it. I am bloody furious about it.

    If ever we needed the fabled men in grey suits to tell her to stop being so bloody stupid, it's now.
    I am very annoyed as well, but I think that the lunatics are in charge, so I am moving more assets abroad. The large one (that you have seen the piccie of) is being transferred to Dublin. I posted the paperwork this afternoon.
    Good for you.

    My home here can't be posted abroad sadly. Other assets can. But my family are here.

    And, dammit, this is my country: I don't see why lunatics should be allowed to ruin it. We are - we can be - better than that.
    The property is staying put, but money and other stuff can move. This is my country too and I worked hard at doing my bit, helping people build businesses. I paid my taxes, helped train people and contributed time and effort to good causes.

    I cannot see how I can stop the lunatics. No matter who I vote for it seems that they are determined to screw the country over. I get no say in it. There is nowhere I can make an effective difference any more. My only hope for the UK is that Tessie takes us over the cliff and we are forced to face the world and expose the lies of nationalism and kill off the hankering nostalgia for our imperial past.

    In short, we might need a bl**dy good kick up the ar*e before we make any progress at all.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet another OGH anti Bernie thread.

    The fact remains Iowa and New Hampshire still vote first before other states and Sanders won New Hampshire in 2016 and lost Iowa by less than 1%. If he wins both he will almost certainly be nominee as all the momentum will be his, no candidate in post war history has won Iowa and New Hampshire and failed to be nominee.

    As for Harris she is yet another California coastal liberal who would lose the rustbelt and the Electoral College, little better than Warren. O'Rourke really needed to have beaten Cruz not lost to have a chance

    By spring of 2020, the US Democrats might be looking at the UK rejecting Corbyn twice - and think to themselves "Old Lefties? Nah......."
    The next UK general election is not due until 2022, the next US Presidential election is is 2020.

    It is not impossible President Sanders could be elected in 2020 paving the way for PM Corbyn or vice versa.

    After all UK and US politics is often in sync e.g. Wilson and LBJ, Heath and Nixon, Callaghan and Carter, Thatcher and Reagan, Bush and Major, Blair and Clinton etc
    It's a brave man who thinks the next UK election will be in 2022.....
    I can't see tMay calling one early and LAB simply does not have the MP numbers.
    Plan A in the Tory Party was always that May was gone after Brexit. Unless the polls take a turn for the worse, I can see a new PM wanting to try and get a honeymoon-period majority.
    Has anybody told Mrs. May? Her only commitment, made on the day of the confidence vote, was to be gone before the next GE.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet another OGH anti Bernie thread.

    The fact remains Iowa and New Hampshire still vote first before other states and Sanders won New Hampshire in 2016 and lost Iowa by less than 1%. If he wins both he will almost certainly be nominee as all the momentum will be his, no candidate in post war history has won Iowa and New Hampshire and failed to be nominee.

    As for Harris she is yet another California coastal liberal who would lose the rustbelt and the Electoral College, little better than Warren. O'Rourke really needed to have beaten Cruz not lost to have a chance

    By spring of 2020, the US Democrats might be looking at the UK rejecting Corbyn twice - and think to themselves "Old Lefties? Nah......."
    The next UK general election is not due until 2022, the next US Presidential election is is 2020.

    It is not impossible President Sanders could be elected in 2020 paving the way for PM Corbyn or vice versa.

    After all UK and US politics is often in sync e.g. Wilson and LBJ, Heath and Nixon, Callaghan and Carter, Thatcher and Reagan, Bush and Major, Blair and Clinton etc
    It's a brave man who thinks the next UK election will be in 2022.....
    I can't see tMay calling one early and LAB simply does not have the MP numbers.
    Plan A in the Tory Party was always that May was gone after Brexit. Unless the polls take a turn for the worse, I can see a new PM wanting to try and get a honeymoon-period majority.
    Has anybody told Mrs. May? Her only commitment, made on the day of the confidence vote, was to be gone before the next GE.
    Was that even the commitment? I thought it was not to fight an election "in 2022", leaving room to weasel out of it.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201

    Sean_F said:

    From the makers of Batshit I, Batshit II, and Batshit with a Vengeance...

    https://twitter.com/singharj/status/1081208536573595651?s=21

    why the problem obtaining bananas?
    I think most of the bananas we eat are grown in Madeira, although there are Caribbean suppliers. I don't know why tomatoes would be a problem.
    thanks. didn't know that about madeira. thought most of our bananas came from the caribbean.
    https://www.freshplaza.com/article/155723/UK-breaks-records-with-banana-imports/

    Caribbean production has declined, we now get most from Latin America.

    The supermarkets decide where the Bananas are sourced from.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    FPT
    malcolmg said:

    What about British nationalism?
    An oft heard cry from Labour Unionists during the indy ref was that Scottish independence would make family foreigners (Tony Benn & Margaret Curran spring to mind as producers of that sort of guff). Why is being a foreigner so bad, and why should a Glasgow scaffolder feel more internationalist solidarity with one from Gloucester than he would with ones from Galway or Göttingen?

    Because the common man in Berwickshire and the common man in Northumberland are culturally and linguistically one and the same.
    Hmmmm, you listening to Land of Hope and Glory as you post that. Utter bollox.
    In what way is it ‘utter bollox’? Your xenophobic anti-english sentiment is blinding you to the truth.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Cyclefree said:

    Me too. And that Blue zealotry will make it increasingly likely that we will have to suffer the effects of Red zealotry as well.

    Bastards, the lot of them.

    The other day Matthew Parris said on the radio that he thought there was a high risk the Tory party might not exist in a year's time. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised. And it might well be a good thing if it resulted in a genuine realignment in our politics

    I understand your anger. I reached this point about a year ago and people told me I was being silly and melodramatic.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    FPT

    malcolmg said:

    What about British nationalism?
    An oft heard cry from Labour Unionists during the indy ref was that Scottish independence would make family foreigners (Tony Benn & Margaret Curran spring to mind as producers of that sort of guff). Why is being a foreigner so bad, and why should a Glasgow scaffolder feel more internationalist solidarity with one from Gloucester than he would with ones from Galway or Göttingen?

    Because the common man in Berwickshire and the common man in Northumberland are culturally and linguistically one and the same.
    Hmmmm, you listening to Land of Hope and Glory as you post that. Utter bollox.
    In what way is it ‘utter bollox’? Your xenophobic anti-english sentiment is blinding you to the truth.
    Hi Gallowgate. You OK? Don't feel you have to answer, have just been a bit concerned.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    malcolmg said:

    What about British nationalism?
    An oft heard cry from Labour Unionists during the indy ref was that Scottish independence would make family foreigners (Tony Benn & Margaret Curran spring to mind as producers of that sort of guff). Why is being a foreigner so bad, and why should a Glasgow scaffolder feel more internationalist solidarity with one from Gloucester than he would with ones from Galway or Göttingen?

    Because the common man in Berwickshire and the common man in Northumberland are culturally and linguistically one and the same.
    Hmmmm, you listening to Land of Hope and Glory as you post that. Utter bollox.
    In what way is it ‘utter bollox’? Your xenophobic anti-english sentiment is blinding you to the truth.
    Hi Gallowgate. You OK? Don't feel you have to answer, have just been a bit concerned.
    No problem - sorry for the lack of update. I got discharged yesterday as I was due in hospital today anyway for a small procedure. I’m home now but doing okay I think. Doctors think I’m okay.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    ydoethur said:

    FPT

    malcolmg said:

    What about British nationalism?
    An oft heard cry from Labour Unionists during the indy ref was that Scottish independence would make family foreigners (Tony Benn & Margaret Curran spring to mind as producers of that sort of guff). Why is being a foreigner so bad, and why should a Glasgow scaffolder feel more internationalist solidarity with one from Gloucester than he would with ones from Galway or Göttingen?

    Because the common man in Berwickshire and the common man in Northumberland are culturally and linguistically one and the same.
    Hmmmm, you listening to Land of Hope and Glory as you post that. Utter bollox.
    In what way is it ‘utter bollox’? Your xenophobic anti-english sentiment is blinding you to the truth.
    Hi Gallowgate. You OK? Don't feel you have to answer, have just been a bit concerned.
    No problem - sorry for the lack of update. I got discharged yesterday as I was due in hospital today anyway for a small procedure. I’m home now but doing okay I think. Doctors think I’m okay.
    Thanks. Good news. Hope the recovery goes smoothly.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789

    FPT

    malcolmg said:

    What about British nationalism?
    An oft heard cry from Labour Unionists during the indy ref was that Scottish independence would make family foreigners (Tony Benn & Margaret Curran spring to mind as producers of that sort of guff). Why is being a foreigner so bad, and why should a Glasgow scaffolder feel more internationalist solidarity with one from Gloucester than he would with ones from Galway or Göttingen?

    Because the common man in Berwickshire and the common man in Northumberland are culturally and linguistically one and the same.
    Hmmmm, you listening to Land of Hope and Glory as you post that. Utter bollox.
    In what way is it ‘utter bollox’? Your xenophobic anti-english sentiment is blinding you to the truth.
    Good news for British nationalists. A "think tank" has declared that the UK is the second most powerful nation in the world.

    https://henryjacksonsociety.org/publications/geopoliticalcapabilityaudit/
  • HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Gate, glad to hear that :)
  • FPT

    malcolmg said:

    What about British nationalism?
    An oft heard cry from Labour Unionists during the indy ref was that Scottish independence would make family foreigners (Tony Benn & Margaret Curran spring to mind as producers of that sort of guff). Why is being a foreigner so bad, and why should a Glasgow scaffolder feel more internationalist solidarity with one from Gloucester than he would with ones from Galway or Göttingen?

    Because the common man in Berwickshire and the common man in Northumberland are culturally and linguistically one and the same.
    Hmmmm, you listening to Land of Hope and Glory as you post that. Utter bollox.
    In what way is it ‘utter bollox’? Your xenophobic anti-english sentiment is blinding you to the truth.
    Good news for British nationalists. A "think tank" has declared that the UK is the second most powerful nation in the world.

    https://henryjacksonsociety.org/publications/geopoliticalcapabilityaudit/
    'a stinging rebuke'
  • Sean_F said:

    From the makers of Batshit I, Batshit II, and Batshit with a Vengeance...

    https://twitter.com/singharj/status/1081208536573595651?s=21

    why the problem obtaining bananas?
    I think most of the bananas we eat are grown in Madeira, although there are Caribbean suppliers. I don't know why tomatoes would be a problem.
    thanks. didn't know that about madeira. thought most of our bananas came from the caribbean.
    https://www.freshplaza.com/article/155723/UK-breaks-records-with-banana-imports/

    Caribbean production has declined, we now get most from Latin America.

    The supermarkets decide where the Bananas are sourced from.
    Banana Constitutional Monarchy!
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072
    edited January 2019

    FPT

    malcolmg said:

    What about British nationalism?
    An oft heard cry from Labour Unionists during the indy ref was that Scottish independence would make family foreigners (Tony Benn & Margaret Curran spring to mind as producers of that sort of guff). Why is being a foreigner so bad, and why should a Glasgow scaffolder feel more internationalist solidarity with one from Gloucester than he would with ones from Galway or Göttingen?

    Because the common man in Berwickshire and the common man in Northumberland are culturally and linguistically one and the same.
    Hmmmm, you listening to Land of Hope and Glory as you post that. Utter bollox.
    In what way is it ‘utter bollox’? Your xenophobic anti-english sentiment is blinding you to the truth.
    Good news for British nationalists. A "think tank" has declared that the UK is the second most powerful nation in the world.

    https://henryjacksonsociety.org/publications/geopoliticalcapabilityaudit/
    I’m not a ‘British nationalist’. I mearly stated that folk in the Scottish borders are no different culturally or linguistically from folk in Cumbria or Northumberland. In what ways do you think i’m wrong?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,401

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    Is that advert also appearing on bus stops in Mansfield?
    It is on a bus stop in Ferrybridge!
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072

    Mr. Gate, glad to hear that :)

    Thank you. Believe it or not my doctor thinks my body is just not used to the weight i’ve managed to put on the last few months (in a good way).

    I’ve put on 20kg in 2-3 months.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    Is that advert also appearing on bus stops in Mansfield?
    It is on a bus stop in Ferrybridge!
    What about a ferry in Ramsgate?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789

    FPT

    malcolmg said:

    What about British nationalism?
    An oft heard cry from Labour Unionists during the indy ref was that Scottish independence would make family foreigners (Tony Benn & Margaret Curran spring to mind as producers of that sort of guff). Why is being a foreigner so bad, and why should a Glasgow scaffolder feel more internationalist solidarity with one from Gloucester than he would with ones from Galway or Göttingen?

    Because the common man in Berwickshire and the common man in Northumberland are culturally and linguistically one and the same.
    Hmmmm, you listening to Land of Hope and Glory as you post that. Utter bollox.
    In what way is it ‘utter bollox’? Your xenophobic anti-english sentiment is blinding you to the truth.
    Good news for British nationalists. A "think tank" has declared that the UK is the second most powerful nation in the world.

    https://henryjacksonsociety.org/publications/geopoliticalcapabilityaudit/
    I’m not a ‘British nationalist’. I mearly stated that folk in the Scottish borders are no different culturally or linguistically from folk in Cumbria or Northumberland. In what ways do you think i’m wrong?
    Most borders in Europe are somewhat fuzzy, which is one reason the EU is a good idea.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Gate, good to hear. Always nice to get an all-clear when you're worried.
  • HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,771

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    Dutch beer isn't that great IMO. And if we Brexit we can impose a maximum overseas count on all footie clubs so the Belgian Striker can go ply his trade elsewhere.
    If we want to lower the quality of football played in British leagues, we will be able to.

    Of course, not playing against high quality competition may impact the quality of British footballers going forward, and will almost certainly result in fewer British teams playing Champions League football.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    A lump of land in the middle of the sea is not an island? You learn something new every day. :p
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,547

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    Is that advert also appearing on bus stops in Mansfield?
    That tweet could have been written by John McDonnell.
  • HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    Well, most of the countries Ayoade mentions are way outside the EU.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    Is that advert also appearing on bus stops in Mansfield?
    It is on a bus stop in Ferrybridge!
    what I've never understood about Ferrybridge is how, when the bridge was built, the ferry stuck around long enough for the place to be named after both of them.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,401

    FPT

    malcolmg said:

    What about British nationalism?
    An oft heard cry from Labour Unionists during the indy ref was that Scottish independence would make family foreigners (Tony Benn & Margaret Curran spring to mind as producers of that sort of guff). Why is being a foreigner so bad, and why should a Glasgow scaffolder feel more internationalist solidarity with one from Gloucester than he would with ones from Galway or Göttingen?

    Because the common man in Berwickshire and the common man in Northumberland are culturally and linguistically one and the same.
    Hmmmm, you listening to Land of Hope and Glory as you post that. Utter bollox.
    In what way is it ‘utter bollox’? Your xenophobic anti-english sentiment is blinding you to the truth.
    Good news for British nationalists. A "think tank" has declared that the UK is the second most powerful nation in the world.

    https://henryjacksonsociety.org/publications/geopoliticalcapabilityaudit/
    I’m not a ‘British nationalist’. I mearly stated that folk in the Scottish borders are no different culturally or linguistically from folk in Cumbria or Northumberland. In what ways do you think i’m wrong?
    Most borders in Europe are somewhat fuzzy...
    Sounds like part of the Januhairy movement.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    FPT

    malcolmg said:

    What about British nationalism?
    An oft heard cry from Labour Unionists during the indy ref was that Scottish independence would make family foreigners (Tony Benn & Margaret Curran spring to mind as producers of that sort of guff). Why is being a foreigner so bad, and why should a Glasgow scaffolder feel more internationalist solidarity with one from Gloucester than he would with ones from Galway or Göttingen?

    Because the common man in Berwickshire and the common man in Northumberland are culturally and linguistically one and the same.
    Hmmmm, you listening to Land of Hope and Glory as you post that. Utter bollox.
    In what way is it ‘utter bollox’? Your xenophobic anti-english sentiment is blinding you to the truth.
    Good news for British nationalists. A "think tank" has declared that the UK is the second most powerful nation in the world.

    https://henryjacksonsociety.org/publications/geopoliticalcapabilityaudit/
    I'm fond of Henry Jackson.

    They are, however, complete and utter fuckwits.
  • RobD said:

    A lump of land in the middle of the sea is not an island? You learn something new every day. :p

    Have you not been to Australia? :lol:
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    ydoethur said:

    Cicero said:

    ydoethur said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    TBF, he does have a point, both geographically and politically. Having bankers say that leaving the EU would be a disaster for them was with hindsight one of Remain's less intelligent moves.
    Would be a bit more convincing if so many City types had not been major donors to the Tories
    The Brexiteers Tories should call in that favour at the next election. They need to have bankers all over the airwaves explaining how Corbyn's policies would make them all filthy rich.
    It's a stupid point by Montgomerie. First, it was not HSBC which went bust costing us all a lot of money. And, second, the party and politicians he supports did the square root of fuck all to challenge the might of the City or to regulate it intelligently or to help all those small places over which he now weeps crocodile tears.
  • HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688
    ydoethur said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    Is that advert also appearing on bus stops in Mansfield?
    It is on a bus stop in Ferrybridge!
    What about a ferry in Ramsgate?
    Did we pay many millions to the bloke there with a very long rope and a tub?

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,072

    FPT

    malcolmg said:

    What about British nationalism?
    An oft heard cry from Labour Unionists during the indy ref was that Scottish independence would make family foreigners (Tony Benn & Margaret Curran spring to mind as producers of that sort of guff). Why is being a foreigner so bad, and why should a Glasgow scaffolder feel more internationalist solidarity with one from Gloucester than he would with ones from Galway or Göttingen?

    Because the common man in Berwickshire and the common man in Northumberland are culturally and linguistically one and the same.
    Hmmmm, you listening to Land of Hope and Glory as you post that. Utter bollox.
    In what way is it ‘utter bollox’? Your xenophobic anti-english sentiment is blinding you to the truth.
    Good news for British nationalists. A "think tank" has declared that the UK is the second most powerful nation in the world.

    https://henryjacksonsociety.org/publications/geopoliticalcapabilityaudit/
    I’m not a ‘British nationalist’. I mearly stated that folk in the Scottish borders are no different culturally or linguistically from folk in Cumbria or Northumberland. In what ways do you think i’m wrong?
    Most borders in Europe are somewhat fuzzy, which is one reason the EU is a good idea.
    I agree entirely.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    Is that advert also appearing on bus stops in Mansfield?
    It is on a bus stop in Ferrybridge!
    What about a ferry in Ramsgate?
    Did we pay many millions to the bloke there with a very long rope and a tub?

    I gather they're bus-ting a gut to get ferries going again, does that count?
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038

    Cyclefree said:

    Me too. And that Blue zealotry will make it increasingly likely that we will have to suffer the effects of Red zealotry as well.

    Bastards, the lot of them.

    The other day Matthew Parris said on the radio that he thought there was a high risk the Tory party might not exist in a year's time. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised. And it might well be a good thing if it resulted in a genuine realignment in our politics

    I understand your anger. I reached this point about a year ago and people told me I was being silly and melodramatic.
    Ted Heath was right in hindsight not to have a referendum when we went in. He thought that they were unconstitutional.

    It seems that the subsequent 1975 vote was only held due to ... Tony Benn. He suggested one to Harold Wilson, who adopted it because he saw that it got him out of a tight spot. Also he didn't have much time for constitutional niceties.

    If we hadn't had one in 1975, it might have set a precedent, under our unwritten constitution, that no referendums should be held on decisions which parliament ratifies by a majority of >100. But I'd rather have a written constitution and PR, with clear statements of when and why a referendum is allowed.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    FPT

    malcolmg said:

    What about British nationalism?
    An oft heard cry from Labour Unionists during the indy ref was that Scottish independence would make family foreigners (Tony Benn & Margaret Curran spring to mind as producers of that sort of guff). Why is being a foreigner so bad, and why should a Glasgow scaffolder feel more internationalist solidarity with one from Gloucester than he would with ones from Galway or Göttingen?

    Because the common man in Berwickshire and the common man in Northumberland are culturally and linguistically one and the same.
    Hmmmm, you listening to Land of Hope and Glory as you post that. Utter bollox.
    In what way is it ‘utter bollox’? Your xenophobic anti-english sentiment is blinding you to the truth.
    Good news for British nationalists. A "think tank" has declared that the UK is the second most powerful nation in the world.

    https://henryjacksonsociety.org/publications/geopoliticalcapabilityaudit/
    I’m not a ‘British nationalist’. I mearly stated that folk in the Scottish borders are no different culturally or linguistically from folk in Cumbria or Northumberland. In what ways do you think i’m wrong?
    Most borders in Europe are somewhat fuzzy, which is one reason the EU is a good idea.
    You mean a single european state?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,922
    edited January 2019
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    Is that advert also appearing on bus stops in Mansfield?
    It is on a bus stop in Ferrybridge!
    What about a ferry in Ramsgate?
    Did we pay many millions to the bloke there with a very long rope and a tub?

    I gather they're bus-ting a gut to get ferries going again, does that count?
    I sea you have found the quay to a good pun!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    Is that advert also appearing on bus stops in Mansfield?
    It is on a bus stop in Ferrybridge!
    What about a ferry in Ramsgate?
    Did we pay many millions to the bloke there with a very long rope and a tub?

    I gather they're bus-ting a gut to get ferries going again, does that count?
    I sea you have found the quay to a good pun!
    Well, I had to dredge that one up from well down, but after a lot of thought I realised I could sea way to it.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    Is that advert also appearing on bus stops in Mansfield?
    It is on a bus stop in Ferrybridge!
    What about a ferry in Ramsgate?
    Did we pay many millions to the bloke there with a very long rope and a tub?

    I gather they're bus-ting a gut to get ferries going again, does that count?
    I sea you have found the quay to a good pun!
    I'm ferry, ferry disappointed as to the way this is going.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited January 2019

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited January 2019
    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    I would hate to have a job that deals with the public these days...

    Make sure you wear a helmet and sensible clothes = you victim blaming nazi

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/jan/04/cycling-uk-angered-by-highway-codes-victim-blaming-helmet-advice

    I was driving through Westminster yesterday at dusk and it was very dangerous - the number of cyclists with dark clothing and no desire to stick to the rules (red lights, pedestrians, etc).

    When you combine that with traffic and risk-taking pedestrians on their phones it's very difficult and dangerous driving. Of course I'm going to try not to hit anyone, but a bit of a contribution on their side would be appreciated!
    I am a regular cyclist in London and I loathe those who go through red lights, ride like idiots, etc.

    If I am at a red light, I can guarantee that 95% of every cyclist that comes to it will go straight through it.
    Why and when did cyclists in London start going through red lights? I don't think it happens in other cities, and didn't use to happen in London until a few years ago. Maybe it's a response to aggressive drivers in the capital.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    Is that advert also appearing on bus stops in Mansfield?
    It is on a bus stop in Ferrybridge!
    What about a ferry in Ramsgate?
    Did we pay many millions to the bloke there with a very long rope and a tub?

    I gather they're bus-ting a gut to get ferries going again, does that count?
    I sea you have found the quay to a good pun!
    I'm ferry, ferry disappointed as to the way this is going.
    That one sank without trace.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    Is that advert also appearing on bus stops in Mansfield?
    It is on a bus stop in Ferrybridge!
    What about a ferry in Ramsgate?
    Did we pay many millions to the bloke there with a very long rope and a tub?

    I gather they're bus-ting a gut to get ferries going again, does that count?
    I sea you have found the quay to a good pun!
    Well, I had to dredge that one up from well down, but after a lot of thought I realised I could sea way to it.
    You know I think that's the worst post I've ever read on PB. Given that I've clearly seen all of my own that's a pretty amazing achievement. It's wrong on every level! You are to be congratulated, a masterpiece!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    AndyJS said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    I would hate to have a job that deals with the public these days...

    Make sure you wear a helmet and sensible clothes = you victim blaming nazi

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/jan/04/cycling-uk-angered-by-highway-codes-victim-blaming-helmet-advice

    I was driving through Westminster yesterday at dusk and it was very dangerous - the number of cyclists with dark clothing and no desire to stick to the rules (red lights, pedestrians, etc).

    When you combine that with traffic and risk-taking pedestrians on their phones it's very difficult and dangerous driving. Of course I'm going to try not to hit anyone, but a bit of a contribution on their side would be appreciated!
    I am a regular cyclist in London and I loathe those who go through red lights, ride like idiots, etc.

    If I am at a red light, I can guarantee that 95% of every cyclist that comes to it will go straight through it.
    Why and when did cyclists in London start going through red lights? I don't think it happens in other cities, and didn't use to happen in London until a few years ago. Maybe it's a response to aggressive drivers in the capital.
    It does happen in Cannock as well. Aberystwyth was pretty bad for it too ten years ago. Not sure what it's like there now.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited January 2019

    FPT

    malcolmg said:

    What about British nationalism?
    An oft heard cry from Labour Unionists during the indy ref was that Scottish independence would make family foreigners (Tony Benn & Margaret Curran spring to mind as producers of that sort of guff). Why is being a foreigner so bad, and why should a Glasgow scaffolder feel more internationalist solidarity with one from Gloucester than he would with ones from Galway or Göttingen?

    Because the common man in Berwickshire and the common man in Northumberland are culturally and linguistically one and the same.
    Hmmmm, you listening to Land of Hope and Glory as you post that. Utter bollox.
    In what way is it ‘utter bollox’? Your xenophobic anti-english sentiment is blinding you to the truth.
    Good news for British nationalists. A "think tank" has declared that the UK is the second most powerful nation in the world.

    https://henryjacksonsociety.org/publications/geopoliticalcapabilityaudit/
    1 USA
    2 UK
    3 China
    4 France
    5 Germany

    Russia only 10th behind India, Australia, Canada and Japan.

    Not sure Putin or Assad would agree
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    Is that advert also appearing on bus stops in Mansfield?
    It is on a bus stop in Ferrybridge!
    What about a ferry in Ramsgate?
    Did we pay many millions to the bloke there with a very long rope and a tub?

    I gather they're bus-ting a gut to get ferries going again, does that count?
    I sea you have found the quay to a good pun!
    Well, I had to dredge that one up from well down, but after a lot of thought I realised I could sea way to it.
    You know I think that's the worst post I've ever read on PB. Given that I've clearly seen all of my own that's a pretty amazing achievement. It's wrong on every level! You are to be congratulated, a masterpiece!
    I'm disturbed to know you can read my thought processes.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    ydoethur said:

    AndyJS said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    I would hate to have a job that deals with the public these days...

    Make sure you wear a helmet and sensible clothes = you victim blaming nazi

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/jan/04/cycling-uk-angered-by-highway-codes-victim-blaming-helmet-advice

    I was driving through Westminster yesterday at dusk and it was very dangerous - the number of cyclists with dark clothing and no desire to stick to the rules (red lights, pedestrians, etc).

    When you combine that with traffic and risk-taking pedestrians on their phones it's very difficult and dangerous driving. Of course I'm going to try not to hit anyone, but a bit of a contribution on their side would be appreciated!
    I am a regular cyclist in London and I loathe those who go through red lights, ride like idiots, etc.

    If I am at a red light, I can guarantee that 95% of every cyclist that comes to it will go straight through it.
    Why and when did cyclists in London start going through red lights? I don't think it happens in other cities, and didn't use to happen in London until a few years ago. Maybe it's a response to aggressive drivers in the capital.
    It does happen in Cannock as well. Aberystwyth was pretty bad for it too ten years ago. Not sure what it's like there now.
    As late as the 1990s about 99.9% of drivers and cyclists would respect red lights, even if there was no other traffic around. We've seemingly become a less law-abiding country since then. I was in Chicago recently for a couple of days and it was normal there for two cars to go through after the lights changed to red. I hope we're not heading in that direction.
  • HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    Next you'll be telling us that the H and S in HSBC stands for HongKong and Shanghai.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789
    RobD said:

    FPT

    malcolmg said:

    What about British nationalism?
    An oft heard cry from Labour Unionists during the indy ref was that Scottish independence would make family foreigners (Tony Benn & Margaret Curran spring to mind as producers of that sort of guff). Why is being a foreigner so bad, and why should a Glasgow scaffolder feel more internationalist solidarity with one from Gloucester than he would with ones from Galway or Göttingen?

    Because the common man in Berwickshire and the common man in Northumberland are culturally and linguistically one and the same.
    Hmmmm, you listening to Land of Hope and Glory as you post that. Utter bollox.
    In what way is it ‘utter bollox’? Your xenophobic anti-english sentiment is blinding you to the truth.
    Good news for British nationalists. A "think tank" has declared that the UK is the second most powerful nation in the world.

    https://henryjacksonsociety.org/publications/geopoliticalcapabilityaudit/
    I’m not a ‘British nationalist’. I mearly stated that folk in the Scottish borders are no different culturally or linguistically from folk in Cumbria or Northumberland. In what ways do you think i’m wrong?
    Most borders in Europe are somewhat fuzzy, which is one reason the EU is a good idea.
    You mean a single european state?
    A confederation with shared political institutions.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,922
    edited January 2019
    My, ah, forensic analysis of the Richard Ayoade HSBC advert has revealed he mentions 14 non-EU nations and only 8 EU nations:

    Colombia
    Guatemala
    Costa Rica
    Japan
    Taiwan
    America
    Korea (South, presumably)
    Chile
    Argentina
    Brazil
    China
    India
    Mexico
    Russia (Siberian)

    Denmark
    Germany
    Sweden
    Belgium
    Italy
    Netherlands (go Dutch)
    Hungary
    France
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    Martin Wolf drew some disturbing parallels between China and Japan c. 1988.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited January 2019

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    Next you'll be telling us that the H and S in HSBC stands for HongKong and Shanghai.
    Yes I know, I even bank with them (of course it really expanded here by taking over Midland Bank)
  • AndyJS said:

    ydoethur said:

    AndyJS said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    I would hate to have a job that deals with the public these days...

    Make sure you wear a helmet and sensible clothes = you victim blaming nazi

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/jan/04/cycling-uk-angered-by-highway-codes-victim-blaming-helmet-advice

    I was driving through Westminster yesterday at dusk and it was very dangerous - the number of cyclists with dark clothing and no desire to stick to the rules (red lights, pedestrians, etc).

    When you combine that with traffic and risk-taking pedestrians on their phones it's very difficult and dangerous driving. Of course I'm going to try not to hit anyone, but a bit of a contribution on their side would be appreciated!
    I am a regular cyclist in London and I loathe those who go through red lights, ride like idiots, etc.

    If I am at a red light, I can guarantee that 95% of every cyclist that comes to it will go straight through it.
    Why and when did cyclists in London start going through red lights? I don't think it happens in other cities, and didn't use to happen in London until a few years ago. Maybe it's a response to aggressive drivers in the capital.
    It does happen in Cannock as well. Aberystwyth was pretty bad for it too ten years ago. Not sure what it's like there now.
    As late as the 1990s about 99.9% of drivers and cyclists would respect red lights, even if there was no other traffic around. We've seemingly become a less law-abiding country since then. I was in Chicago recently for a couple of days and it was normal there for two cars to go through after the lights changed to red. I hope we're not heading in that direction.
    I've noticed over the years, in London at least, drivers using their indicators to turn left/right less and less.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    The Conservative Party seems to find Grayling's bottomless omnishambolic clustertwattery to be charming or something I dunno.
  • AndyJS said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    I would hate to have a job that deals with the public these days...

    Make sure you wear a helmet and sensible clothes = you victim blaming nazi

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/jan/04/cycling-uk-angered-by-highway-codes-victim-blaming-helmet-advice

    I was driving through Westminster yesterday at dusk and it was very dangerous - the number of cyclists with dark clothing and no desire to stick to the rules (red lights, pedestrians, etc).

    When you combine that with traffic and risk-taking pedestrians on their phones it's very difficult and dangerous driving. Of course I'm going to try not to hit anyone, but a bit of a contribution on their side would be appreciated!
    I am a regular cyclist in London and I loathe those who go through red lights, ride like idiots, etc.

    If I am at a red light, I can guarantee that 95% of every cyclist that comes to it will go straight through it.
    Why and when did cyclists in London start going through red lights? I don't think it happens in other cities, and didn't use to happen in London until a few years ago. Maybe it's a response to aggressive drivers in the capital.
    Well, I used to cycle regularly from Paddington to Canary Wharf ten years ago, and there were plenty of red light jumpers then, even in the really dangerous places like Parliament Square....
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    Next you'll be telling us that the H and S in HSBC stands for HongKong and Shanghai.
    Midland Bank is in there somewhere. A rather unpleasant strain we'd hoped had been eradicated in the late 80s.

    There's a lot to be learned from the component parts that make up these big institutions. RBS for example has a pretty crap heart, combined with a huge stripe of plainest grey from NatWest. Even the good bits are iffy - Coutt's for example.

    Oddly today I was looking at Norda Bank. I can't see it lifting itself above its poor origins.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    edited January 2019
    Ummm...
    http://www.twitter.com/goldfinchgazer/status/1081242786823843841
    Edit - and it is only Channel 4. They seem to be going crazy, or perhaps I should say, crazier.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Time to put "NO BANANAS OR TOMATOES" on the side of a bus.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    Turns out the councillor doesn't have a clue, and the same dredger has been used there before.

    Why are Channel 4 not checking their facts? Not the first time with this story.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Thanks to the fine work of the Republican NO FUN MACHINE, I now know that AOC is *adorkable*.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758
    Andrew said:

    Turns out the councillor doesn't have a clue, and the same dredger has been used there before.

    Why are Channel 4 not checking their facts? Not the first time with this story.
    Two stories within 48 hours which appear to be incorrect and for which they are not naming sources makes you wonder a bit what they are playing at.

    More likely though it's just gross incompetence.

    When we heard these guys were going to make a fortune from taxpayers, did we realise it was going to be in profits from libel actions against a publicly owned broadcaster?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,092
    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    Next you'll be telling us that the H and S in HSBC stands for HongKong and Shanghai.
    Midland Bank is in there somewhere. A rather unpleasant strain we'd hoped had been eradicated in the late 80s.

    There's a lot to be learned from the component parts that make up these big institutions. RBS for example has a pretty crap heart, combined with a huge stripe of plainest grey from NatWest. Even the good bits are iffy - Coutt's for example.

    Oddly today I was looking at Norda Bank. I can't see it lifting itself above its poor origins.
    What's wrong with Nordia?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2019
    More of an omnishambles than Seaborne is Channel 4 news reporting of them. It seems every night their report is wrong.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Andrew said:

    Turns out the councillor doesn't have a clue, and the same dredger has been used there before.

    Why are Channel 4 not checking their facts? Not the first time with this story.
    Does that invalidate either of those things? Just because the same dredger has been used before, doesn't mean it's not the wrong one. And it certainly doesn't mean Seaborne Freight isn't a joke.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    It's cute when the PB Tories close ranks. Though why in the name of everliving heck you go out on a limb for a worthless drone-bothering ballsack like Grayling is anyone's guess.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688

    Time to put "NO BANANAS OR TOMATOES" on the side of a bus.

    Secure a supply of both and put "BANANAS and TOMATOES" alongside your grabcocque logo (well maybe not, someone elses logo) on the bus too - as if by magic you're Croesus.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited January 2019
    The only yellow vest I can see Rog putting on is the one he pops on for a spot of sunbathing.

    After listening to the Sam Harris podcast with the lady who is an expert in social media interference, I wonder how much the GRU have been assisting?

    She was saying that the truth about Russia and US elections is that years before they had been building online communities of all sorts of different types of people, blacks, Christians, black Christians, whites, white Christians, etc etc etc, playing into the "group pride" and then they would insert some news that is against that group causing an uproar e.g. police brutality of a black man, Christians being discriminated against for being Christian, etc.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    Andrew said:

    Turns out the councillor doesn't have a clue, and the same dredger has been used there before.

    Why are Channel 4 not checking their facts? Not the first time with this story.
    Does that invalidate either of those things? Just because the same dredger has been used before, doesn't mean it's not the wrong one. And it certainly doesn't mean Seaborne Freight isn't a joke.
    Why would it be the wrong one? What went wrong before?

    Why would you not use a dredger and presumably crew that has done the same task in the recent past?

    It may be that it can't do everything and that another dredger will have to be brought in for the entrance. But that's a different matter.

    In particular, thinking of all the lies you reflexively posted the other day even long after it was demonstrated to you that they were malicious fabrications, I would advise you to steer clear of this subject. You don't want to find yourself banned, summonsed or worse, both.
  • Andrew said:

    Turns out the councillor doesn't have a clue, and the same dredger has been used there before.

    Why are Channel 4 not checking their facts? Not the first time with this story.

    There’s dredging and there’s dredging though, isn’t there. For example, routine maintenance to keep things clear for small vessels may be very different to clearing/digging the seabed to enable the passage of large ferries.

  • It's cute when the PB Tories close ranks. Though why in the name of everliving heck you go out on a limb for a worthless drone-bothering ballsack like Grayling is anyone's guess.

    grab-gammon?
    gammon-coque?
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    ydoethur said:

    Andrew said:

    Turns out the councillor doesn't have a clue, and the same dredger has been used there before.

    Why are Channel 4 not checking their facts? Not the first time with this story.
    Does that invalidate either of those things? Just because the same dredger has been used before, doesn't mean it's not the wrong one. And it certainly doesn't mean Seaborne Freight isn't a joke.
    Why would it be the wrong one? What went wrong before?

    Why would you not use a dredger and presumably crew that has done the same task in the recent past?
    Dunno, but we're talking about a company with no money, no employees, no boats, no contracts, and the men behind it have a long history of failed companies and millions of unpaid debts. Also Grayling likes them.

    I think we should assume they're a bunch of useless shysters until proven otherwise.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited January 2019
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    Martin Wolf drew some disturbing parallels between China and Japan c. 1988.
    Yes could be a problem with Trump's tariffs and Brexit too
  • ydoethur said:

    Andrew said:

    Turns out the councillor doesn't have a clue, and the same dredger has been used there before.

    Why are Channel 4 not checking their facts? Not the first time with this story.
    Does that invalidate either of those things? Just because the same dredger has been used before, doesn't mean it's not the wrong one. And it certainly doesn't mean Seaborne Freight isn't a joke.
    Why would it be the wrong one? What went wrong before?

    Why would you not use a dredger and presumably crew that has done the same task in the recent past?
    Dunno, but we're talking about a company with no money, no employees, no boats, no contracts, and the men behind it have a long history of failed companies and millions of unpaid debts. Also Grayling likes them.

    I think we should assume they're a bunch of useless shysters until proven otherwise.
    Innocent until proven guilty, I'm afraid!
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688
    geoffw said:

    Omnium said:

    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    Next you'll be telling us that the H and S in HSBC stands for HongKong and Shanghai.
    Midland Bank is in there somewhere. A rather unpleasant strain we'd hoped had been eradicated in the late 80s.

    There's a lot to be learned from the component parts that make up these big institutions. RBS for example has a pretty crap heart, combined with a huge stripe of plainest grey from NatWest. Even the good bits are iffy - Coutt's for example.

    Oddly today I was looking at Norda Bank. I can't see it lifting itself above its poor origins.
    What's wrong with Nordia?
    "Nordea" (sorry) has tried to get itself more exposure. They haven't made the cut for the Eurostoxx index though. They just have the usual (savings bank) banking baggage. It's hard to move away from that, and arguably its better just to stick to it (Lloyds for example).
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234

    ydoethur said:

    Andrew said:

    Turns out the councillor doesn't have a clue, and the same dredger has been used there before.

    Why are Channel 4 not checking their facts? Not the first time with this story.
    Does that invalidate either of those things? Just because the same dredger has been used before, doesn't mean it's not the wrong one. And it certainly doesn't mean Seaborne Freight isn't a joke.
    Why would it be the wrong one? What went wrong before?

    Why would you not use a dredger and presumably crew that has done the same task in the recent past?
    Dunno, but we're talking about a company with no money, no employees, no boats, no contracts, and the men behind it have a long history of failed companies and millions of unpaid debts. Also Grayling likes them.

    I think we should assume they're a bunch of useless shysters until proven otherwise.
    Innocent until proven guilty, I'm afraid!
    Not in business it isn't. I mean Grayling may think it's okay to hand over 14 million quid to a company with the, ahem, track record of Seaborne, but people who understand the meaning of words would have done *actual* due diligence.

    Whatever due diligence Grayling did apparently never went as far as checking their records at companies house, or even visiting their website.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited January 2019


    Dunno, but we're talking about a company with no money, no employees, no boats, no contracts .....

    They have the money to pay half a million for the dredging, and have secured funding for chartering several ferries, the deal for the first having been signed.

    Oh, and no, they haven't been paid 14 million, or indeed anything at all. They get paid when the ferries sail.

    Stupid clickbait story from start to finish.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    ydoethur said:

    Andrew said:

    Turns out the councillor doesn't have a clue, and the same dredger has been used there before.

    Why are Channel 4 not checking their facts? Not the first time with this story.
    Does that invalidate either of those things? Just because the same dredger has been used before, doesn't mean it's not the wrong one. And it certainly doesn't mean Seaborne Freight isn't a joke.
    Why would it be the wrong one? What went wrong before?

    Why would you not use a dredger and presumably crew that has done the same task in the recent past?
    Dunno, but we're talking about a company with no money, no employees, no boats, no contracts, and the men behind it have a long history of failed companies and millions of unpaid debts. Also Grayling likes them.

    I think we should assume they're a bunch of useless shysters until proven otherwise.
    Instantly, you are wrong again. It has three of the four things you say it hasn't got - most recently, the government contract. True, it has no boats. But then, EasyJet doesn't own most of its planes.

    One of the men involved (one of the employees you said it didn't have) worked for one company that went bankrupt, apparently leaving ill-feeling behind due to a legal dispute over outstanding payments. Which is altogether different from what you've written.

    Indeed, what you've written could be considered defamatory, particularly if a hair-trigger firm like Carter-Ruck got involved, the more so as your posting history suggests malice.

    Can you not understand why if you can't stick to facts you shouldn't touch on these subjects? Leave it to Channel 4 to explain themselves.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Andrew said:


    Dunno, but we're talking about a company with no money, no employees, no boats, no contracts .....

    They have the money to pay half a million for the dredging, and have secured funding for chartering several ferries, the deal for the first having been signed.

    Stupid clickbait story from start to finish.
    Which, for a company with no capital, no employees and a poor financial track record should also be raising MANY alarm bells. For anyone except Grayling, who presumably lacks the cognitive ability to be alarmed.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,758

    ydoethur said:

    Andrew said:

    Turns out the councillor doesn't have a clue, and the same dredger has been used there before.

    Why are Channel 4 not checking their facts? Not the first time with this story.
    Does that invalidate either of those things? Just because the same dredger has been used before, doesn't mean it's not the wrong one. And it certainly doesn't mean Seaborne Freight isn't a joke.
    Why would it be the wrong one? What went wrong before?

    Why would you not use a dredger and presumably crew that has done the same task in the recent past?
    Dunno, but we're talking about a company with no money, no employees, no boats, no contracts, and the men behind it have a long history of failed companies and millions of unpaid debts. Also Grayling likes them.

    I think we should assume they're a bunch of useless shysters until proven otherwise.
    Innocent until proven guilty, I'm afraid!
    Not in business it isn't. I mean Grayling may think it's okay to hand over 14 million quid to a company with the, ahem, track record of Seaborne, but people who understand the meaning of words would have done *actual* due diligence.

    Whatever due diligence Grayling did apparently never went as far as checking their records at companies house, or even visiting their website.
    He hasn't given them any money yet. Nor will he until later.

    Honestly, this is getting surreal.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    HYUFD said:

    HSBC has become the latest frontline in the Brexit culture wars:

    https://twitter.com/montie/status/1081238091552174080

    The TV version of that advert has been around for over a year now - with Richard Ayoade no less!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-1UNaA92fg
    Doesn't seem particularly 'anti-Brexit' to me. Monty's screed is paranoid and unhinged.
    What else is new?

    I think Monty missed the whole Global Britain Brexit memo it seems. HSBC's ad with a plethora of non-EU references suits Global Britain quite nicely.
    A global Britain whose banks are more exposed to China and its emerging downturn, added to by Trump's tariffs in April, than virtually any other western nation? The average Leaver wanted to put Britain First not make it even more dependent on investments and migration from the rest of the world

    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/brexit-isn-t-our-biggest-financial-problem-it-s-the-downturn-in-china-a4030646.html
    And adjusted for HSBC the figures show...
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    ydoethur said:


    Indeed, what you've written could be considered defamatory, particularly if a hair-trigger firm like Carter-Ruck got involved, the more so as your posting history suggests malice.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ESHXxInoAs
This discussion has been closed.