There are some really ignorant comments from our Eurofanatic brethren on here this afternoon.
They clearly don't realise that in most EU countries you have to register with the authorities if you want to live or work there, whether you are an EU citizen or not.
In Germany for example I have to be registered using an Anmeldung which requires me to have both employment and a settled address. In Norway I have to register with the police on a yearly basis to be able to work. The idea that the UK is introducing something strange and new is ludicrous.
Comparisons with Herod and yellow stars are just ignorant and offensive. But looking at the posters making those comments it is what we have come to expect.
I believe you have to register each year in this country if you want to vote.
I don't think so. Mrs Tpfkar can vote in local elections as she is on the electoral roll; there's no special provision for her to reconfirm this (beyond the Individual Electoral Registration annual canvass.)
It seems you do, this is the form I was referring to:
' Each year every household in the UK is sent a Household Enquiry Form to check the right people are registered to vote.
It may look like a council circular or piece of junk mail, but DON'T ignore it. By law, you have to respond – even if it shows the correct info. If you continue to ignore it and all the reminders you could be fined up to £1,000. This short guide explains how to spot it, when and why you'll get one – and what to do if you don't get one. '
I haven't posted for a while but read the the threads from time to time and have come to the conclusion positions are as entrenched, and even more bitter.
It is sad to see so much division and nastyness from all sides but for 2019 and my peace of mind, I intend being neutral as much as possible, while rejecting the ultras on both sides
I had to renew our passports this week and after getting passport approved digital photos from our local Asda (not from a booth) and using their unique photo number, the online application sailed through for both of us within a couple of minutes, with instant e mail and text confirmations. Also text tracking of progress to receipt of new passports.
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
You would literally revoke? So the British people would thereafter know that they live in a kind of dystopic pretendy democracy, where any vote can be simply overruled by the MPs and the Establishment, if they don't like it. Turning us, in a trice, into a kind of fake "people's democracy" like the old East Germany, or Ceaucescu's Romania. And thereby ending 1000 years of slowly developing suffrage.
Who and why would anyone ever vote for anything ever again? What would be the point, knowing that MPs could simply say MEH and overrule you, and ignore all the results?
Might as well abandon elections. The nation that first invented parliamentary democracy would be the nation that first ended it.
Take a good, long look at yourself, and at what you are proposing, and what you have become. I shan't say any more for fear of losing my temper.
And I am a nervous Leaver who could be persuaded to a rethink, but not like this. My God.
I’m starting to think that the people’s vote ballot papers will look similar to those used in Austria in the 30s
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
Parris is neither insane or correct. He is a Remain obsessive and can’t park his ego and accept that the country voted Leave. Those who want to know why Brexit is such a divisive political issue only have to read his sneering condescension towards his countrymen to realise why.
I assume she isn't going to, but not sure if that's a safe assumption.
Huhne didn’t of that’s a guide, but he resigned before he knew how long he’d have to serve.
Huhne pled guilty and showed remorse which counts in his favour. He got 8 months.
Is a solicitor who did the same crime but did not plead guilty and has shown no remorse likely to get 4 extra months?
His first plea was not guilty. It was only when his wife leaked the fact that she’d lied on his behalf after he started his affair that he was forced to change plea.
I have no idea what sentence she will get. I don’t think she has any business being an MP though. Looking at her and Jared Smith says a lot about the current Labour Party.
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
You would literally revoke? So the British people would thereafter know that they live in a kind of dystopic pretendy democracy, where any vote can be simply overruled by the MPs and the Establishment, if they don't like it. Turning us, in a trice, into a kind of fake "people's democracy" like the old East Germany, or Ceaucescu's Romania. And thereby ending 1000 years of slowly developing suffrage.
Who and why would anyone ever vote for anything ever again? What would be the point, knowing that MPs could simply say MEH and overrule you, and ignore all the results?
Might as well abandon elections. The nation that first invented parliamentary democracy would be the nation that first ended it.
Take a good, long look at yourself, and at what you are proposing, and what you have become. I shan't say any more for fear of losing my temper.
And I am a nervous Leaver who could be persuaded to a rethink, but not like this. My God.
+1
Well said.
I actually look at Brexit some days and think my God! this is turning into a nightmare. And on those days I think if I were offered the chance to reconsider in a second referendum, I would have to carefully consider whether the cost of freedom is too great, whether it would be an act of economic self harm... Freedom is great but you can't live on it and if we were sucked into the EU superstate well, wouldn't we just be like those Russians living under the tsar or the chairman or whoever who simply sighed, shrugged, and got on and made the best of living under their lot?
Then I realise just how much these people hate freedom. How much they hate the proles. How much they despise the fact the little people for once, stood up and said no. And the colossal two and a half year tantrum they have had since that day. And I know that I could never stand to be on the same side as them. Nor allow them to simply revoke the results of the referendum.
"Sorry! Democracy's cancelled. Fresh out of democracy I'm afraid, would you like anything else?" We are British. We are better than that.
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
You would literally revoke? So the British people would thereafter know that they live in a kind of dystopic pretendy democracy, where any vote can be simply overruled by the MPs and the Establishment, if they don't like it. Turning us, in a trice, into a kind of fake "people's democracy" like the old East Germany, or Ceaucescu's Romania. And thereby ending 1000 years of slowly developing suffrage.
Who and why would anyone ever vote for anything ever again? What would be the point, knowing that MPs could simply say MEH and overrule you, and ignore all the results?
Might as well abandon elections. The nation that first invented parliamentary democracy would be the nation that first ended it.
Take a good, long look at yourself, and at what you are proposing, and what you have become. I shan't say any more for fear of losing my temper.
And I am a nervous Leaver who could be persuaded to a rethink, but not like this. My God.
Then I realise just how much these people hate freedom. How much they hate the proles. How much they despise the fact the little people for once, stood up and said no. And the colossal two and a half year tantrum they have had since that day. And I know that I could never stand to be on the same side as them. Nor allow them to simply revoke the results of the referendum.
"Sorry! Democracy's cancelled. Fresh out of democracy I'm afraid, would you like anything else?" We are British. We are better than that.
Are Rupert Murdoch, Paul Dacre, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Sir James Goldsmith, with his Referendum Party, "the little people" ? The first two, with their multibillion dollar media monster and 30-000 acre grouse-shooting estate respectively, and the last, with his billions ploughed into pro-Brexit forces in Britain in the 1990s, were the mould-breaking Brexiters long before "the little people".
I assume she isn't going to, but not sure if that's a safe assumption.
Huhne didn’t of that’s a guide, but he resigned before he knew how long he’d have to serve.
Huhne pled guilty and showed remorse which counts in his favour. He got 8 months.
Is a solicitor who did the same crime but did not plead guilty and has shown no remorse likely to get 4 extra months?
His first plea was not guilty. It was only when his wife leaked the fact that she’d lied on his behalf after he started his affair that he was forced to change plea.
I have no idea what sentence she will get. I don’t think she has any business being an MP though. Looking at her and Jared Smith says a lot about the current Labour Party.
It is a tricky balancing act for the judge - who will be fully aware of the implication of the sentence on the electors of Peterborough.
My understanding is that a suspended sentence of 12 months would also count as being an automatic disqualification from Parliament. So that is one option on the table.
I think the fact that she is a trained solicitor as well as a Member of Parliament counts against her - legal professionals and law-makers are rightly held to a higher standard - particularly when it comes to matters of honesty.
Also the fact that she didn't plead guilty - and, indeed, tried to put the blame on her brother (who did plead guilty) - looks bad for her.
If the sentence is insufficient to trigger ejection from Parliament, a recall petition will be started - and, I suspect, likely to succeed in triggering a by-election. She has been stripped of the Labour Whip and so is not likely to be re-selected as an Official Labour Candidate (if the NEC have any sense whatsoever - which is not a given) - so she could seek to contest as an independent and lose.
The only way I can see her staying as MP for Peterborough is if the recall process fails. We should all work to make sure it doesn't.
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
You would literally revoke? So the British people would thereafter know that they live in a kind of dystopic pretendy democracy, where any vote can be simply overruled by the MPs and the Establishment, if they don't like it. Turning us, in a trice, into a kind of fake "people's democracy" like the old East Germany, or Ceaucescu's Romania. And thereby ending 1000 years of slowly developing suffrage.
Who and why would anyone ever vote for anything ever again? What would be the point, knowing that MPs could simply say MEH and overrule you, and ignore all the results?
Might as well abandon elections. The nation that first invented parliamentary democracy would be the nation that first ended it.
Take a good, long look at yourself, and at what you are proposing, and what you have become. I shan't say any more for fear of losing my temper.
And I am a nervous Leaver who could be persuaded to a rethink, but not like this. My God.
He has no chance of getting what he wants though, not even the LDs want to revoke Brexit without a second EU referendum
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
You would literally revoke? So the British people would thereafter know that they live in a kind of dystopic pretendy democracy, where any vote can be simply overruled by the MPs and the Establishment, if they don't like it. Turning us, in a trice, into a kind of fake "people's democracy" like the old East Germany, or Ceaucescu's Romania. And thereby ending 1000 years of slowly developing suffrage.
Who and why would anyone ever vote for anything ever again? What would be the point, knowing that MPs could simply say MEH and overrule you, and ignore all the results?
Might as well abandon elections. The nation that first invented parliamentary democracy would be the nation that first ended it.
Take a good, long look at yourself, and at what you are proposing, and what you have become. I shan't say any more for fear of losing my temper.
And I am a nervous Leaver who could be persuaded to a rethink, but not like this. My God.
Then I realise just how much these people hate freedom. How much they hate the proles. How much they despise the fact the little people for once, stood up and said no. And the colossal two and a half year tantrum they have had since that day. And I know that I could never stand to be on the same side as them. Nor allow them to simply revoke the results of the referendum.
"Sorry! Democracy's cancelled. Fresh out of democracy I'm afraid, would you like anything else?" We are British. We are better than that.
Are Rupert Murdoch, Paul Dacre, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Sir James Goldsmith, with his Referendum Party, "the little people" ? The latter two, with their multibillion dollar media monster and 30-000 acre grouse-shooting estate respectively, and the last, with his billions ploughed into pro-Brexit forces in Britain in the 1990s, were the mould-breaking Brexiters long before "the little people".
Like everyone else they had one vote. The remainers are now proposing that Westminster declares an end to democracy and overrules the public. Your side wants to destroy our democracy, pretend otherwise if it helps you sleep at night, however the truth won't change.
Biden is only a year younger than Sanders and four years older than Trump.
Biden-O'Rourke or Sanders-O'Rourke are very possible 2020 tickets though
I could see it the other way round
O'Rourke - Biden (or someone of a similar vintage to provide Executive experience on the ticket)
No. Biden has already been VP.
Plus no presidential nominee in post war history has won the nomination without first being a VP, Senator or Governor unless they were a billionaire like Trump or top General like IKE and O'Rourke is still not in any of those categories after losing the Texas Senate race last year.
O"Rourke's only chance in 2020 is the VP slot in my view, otherwise he will have to wait for 2024 or 2028 if he has won the Texas governorship or a Senate race by then. Indeed of those nominated in the last 25 years to take on an incumbent president ie Dole, Kerry, Romney all were over 60 and in Dole's case over 70. Dole and Kerry were both senior Senators and Romney the former Governor of Massachusetts
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
You whink, but not like this. My God.
+1
Well said.
I actually look at Brexit some days and think my God! this is turning into a nightmare. And on those days I think if I were offered the chance to reconsider in a second referendum, I would have to carefully consider whether the cost of freedom is too great, whether it would be an act of economic self harm... Freedom is great but you can't live on it and if we were sucked into the EU superstate well, wouldn't we just be like those Russians living under the tsar or the chairman or whoever who simply sighed, shrugged, and got on and made the best of living under their lot?
Then I realise just how much these people hate freedom. How much they hate the proles. How much they despise the fact the little people for once, stood up and said no. And the colossal two and a half year tantrum they have had since that day. And I know that I could never stand to be on the same side as them. Nor allow them to simply revoke the results of the referendum.
"Sorry! Democracy's cancelled. Fresh out of democracy I'm afraid, would you like anything else?" We are British. We are better than that.
+1 right back at you.
I think people like Parris have now gone diagnostically mad. What they propose is lunatically dangerous, and destructive. They've lost all sense of political decency, of doing the moral thing. And they think they are the "sensible centre". Jesus fucking Christ.
He's worse than any Kipper, or Corbynite, or the most rabid Scot Nat. He's morally inferior to the BNP, at least they didn't want to end democracy.
The most recommended comment in The Times nails it:
"Dear All Please note that from now on all ballot papers will be pre-completed by the Establishment in order to ensure results are in accordance to their wishes Thank you for your undertanding."
Plus no presidential nominee in post war history has won the nomination without first being a VP, Senator or Governor unless they were a billionaire like Trump or top General like IKE
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
You would literally e persuaded to a rethink, but not like this. My God.
Then I realise just how much these people hate freedom. How much they hate the proles. How much they despise the fact the little people for once, stood up and said no. And the colossal two and a half year tantrum they have had since that day. And I know that I could never stand to be on the same side as them. Nor allow them to simply revoke the results of the referendum.
"Sorry! Democracy's cancelled. Fresh out of democracy I'm afraid, would you like anything else?" We are British. We are better than that.
Are Rupert Murdoch, Paul Dacre, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Sir James Goldsmith, with his Referendum Party, "the little people" ? The first two, with their multibillion dollar media monster and 30-000 acre grouse-shooting estate respectively, and the last, with his billions ploughed into pro-Brexit forces in Britain in the 1990s, were the mould-breaking Brexiters long before "the little people".
Whereas the Remain campaign was a humble and modest proletarian affair, only supported by all four major parties, the entire government, the prime minister, the Bank of England, the civil service, Channel 4, the Times, most MPs, most journalists, most big business, politicians around the world, the CBI, the entire EU Commission, the EU Parliament, the Guardian, Jeremy Clarkson, J K Rowling, endless celebs, every actor in the word, Barack Obama, and so on and so forth.
Yes, Remain was a ramshackle homemade affair, the tiny David to Nigel Farage's Goliath. FFS.
80% of the governing party's members supported Brexit , reflected in many of its MP's silence during the campaign ; around 80% , and the most publicly influential parts of the press supported Brexit, as they had done for 20 years; and the most influential bankrollers of the most influential political party, such as Crispin Odey and other hedge funders, also supported the process.
It all just tends to hinge on which Establishment exactly one is interested in scrutinising.
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
You would literally e persuaded to a rethink, but not like this. My God.
Then I realise just how much these people hate freedom. How much they hate the proles. How much they despise the fact the little people for once, stood up and said no. And the colossal two and a half year tantrum they have had since that day. And I know that I could never stand to be on the same side as them. Nor allow them to simply revoke the results of the referendum.
"Sorry! Democracy's cancelled. Fresh out of democracy I'm afraid, would you like anything else?" We are British. We are better than that.
Are Rupert Murdoch, Paul Dacre, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Sir James Goldsmith, with his Referendum Party, "the little people" ? The first two, with their multibillion dollar media monster and 30-000 acre grouse-shooting estate respectively, and the last, with his billions ploughed into pro-Brexit forces in Britain in the 1990s, were the mould-breaking Brexiters long before "the little people".
Whereas the Remain campaign was a humble and modest proletarian affair, only supported by all four major parties, the entire government, the prime minister, the Bank of England, the civil service, Channel 4, the Times, most MPs, most journalists, most big business, politicians around the world, the CBI, the entire EU Commission, the EU Parliament, the Guardian, Jeremy Clarkson, J K Rowling, endless celebs, every actor in the word, Barack Obama, and so on and so forth.
Yes, Remain was a ramshackle homemade affair, the tiny David to Nigel Farage's Goliath. FFS.
80% of the governing party's members supported Brexit , reflected in many of its MP's silence during the campaign ; 80% of the most influential press supported Brexit, as it had done for 20 years; and the most influential bankrollers of the most influential political party, such as Crispin Odey and other hedge funders, also supported the process.
It all just hinges on which Establishment exactly one is interested in scrutinising.
I’m sure the silence of 80% of the governing party’s MPs was wot won it.
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
You whink, but not like this. My God.
"Sorry! Democracy's cancelled. Fresh out of democracy I'm afraid, would you like anything else?" We are British. We are better than that.
+1 right back at you.
I
As I understood his article, Parris was arguing for MPs to vote through a second referendum. Pompously, it must be said, but he writes: "Our present impasse offers unusual scope for negotiation with the electorate. We did instruct government to negotiate Brexit but there’s no reason why, nearly three years later, we can’t be asked to judge the result."
Now, if you think Brexit as currently constituted is a bloody awful mess, whether that be because you hated the idea to begin with, didn't much care, or agree in principle but think it's been made an appalling hash of, and want to stop it, then democratically there are only two ways - a second referendum or a general election in which a government is elected on a remain mandate. The latter is off the table given the identity of the LotO.
To cancel out one mandate you need a new one - and that's how our democracy has always worked. If you think Brexit is likely to be awful for the country, you have to argue for another referendum. Parris may preen himself infuriatingly while doing so, but I don't think he's arguing for an anti-democratic reversal - even if it would be helpful to remain if he stayed away from TV studios.
Plus no presidential nominee in post war history has won the nomination without first being a VP, Senator or Governor unless they were a billionaire like Trump or top General like IKE
This is different though. O'Rourke has to win a big race first before he can seriously be considered as a general election candidate. Plus Bobby Kennedy's grandson, Joseph P Kennedy III is already a Massachusetts congressman and if he wins a Senate race before O'Rourke he will then become the Democrats new young hope
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
You would literally revoke? So the British people would thereafter know that they live in a kind of dystopic pretendy democracy, where any vote can be simply overruled by the MPs and the Establishment, if they don't like it. Turning us, in a trice, into a kind of fake "people's democracy" like the old East Germany, or Ceaucescu's Romania. And thereby ending 1000 years of slowly developing suffrage.
Who and why would anyone ever vote for anything ever again? What would be the point, knowing that MPs could simply say MEH and overrule you, and ignore all the results?
Might as well abandon elections. The nation that first invented parliamentary democracy would be the nation that first ended it.
Take a good, long look at yourself, and at what you are proposing, and what you have become. I shan't say any more for fear of losing my temper.
And I am a nervous Leaver who could be persuaded to a rethink, but not like this. My God.
Then I realise just how much these people hate freedom. How much they hate the proles. How much they despise the fact the little people for once, stood up and said no. And the colossal two and a half year tantrum they have had since that day. And I know that I could never stand to be on the same side as them. Nor allow them to simply revoke the results of the referendum.
"Sorry! Democracy's cancelled. Fresh out of democracy I'm afraid, would you like anything else?" We are British. We are better than that.
Are Rupert Murdoch, Paul Dacre, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Sir James Goldsmith, with his Referendum Party, "the little people" ? The first two, with their multibillion dollar media monster and 30-000 acre grouse-shooting estate respectively, and the last, with his billions ploughed into pro-Brexit forces in Britain in the 1990s, were the mould-breaking Brexiters long before "the little people".
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
You would literally revoke? So the British people would thereafter know that they live in a kind of dystopic pretendy democracy, where any vote can be simply overruled by the MPs and the Establishment, if they don't like it. Turning us, in a trice, into a kind of fake "people's democracy" like the old East Germany, or Ceaucescu's Romania. And thereby ending 1000 years of slowly developing suffrage.
Who and why would anyone ever vote for anything ever again? What would be the point, knowing that MPs could simply say MEH and overrule you, and ignore all the results?
Might as well abandon elections. The nation that first invented parliamentary democracy would be the nation that first ended it.
Take a good, long look at yourself, and at what you are proposing, and what you have become. I shan't say any more for fear of losing my temper.
And I am a nervous Leaver who could be persuaded to a rethink, but not like this. My God.
Then I realise just how much these people hate freedom. How much they hate the proles. How much they despise the fact the little people for once, stood up and said no. And the colossal two and a half year tantrum they have had since that day. And I know that I could never stand to be on the same side as them. Nor allow them to simply revoke the results of the referendum.
"Sorry! Democracy's cancelled. Fresh out of democracy I'm afraid, would you like anything else?" We are British. We are better than that.
Are Rupert Murdoch, Paul Dacre, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Sir James Goldsmith, with his Referendum Party, "the little people" ? The first two, with their multibillion dollar media monster and 30-000 acre grouse-shooting estate respectively, and the last, with his billions ploughed into pro-Brexit forces in Britain in the 1990s, were the mould-breaking Brexiters long before "the little people".
There were 17.4 million other "little people".
Indeed, and often a coalition of the affluent shires and the post-thatcher, post-industrial lands.
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
You would literally e persuaded to a rethink, but not like this. My God.
Then I realise just how much these people hate freedom. How much they hate the proles. How much they despise the fact the little people for once, stood up and said no. And the colossal two and a half year tantrum they have had since that day. And I know that I could never stand to be on the same side as them. Nor allow them to simply revoke the results of the referendum.
"Sorry! Democracy's cancelled. Fresh out of democracy I'm afraid, would you like anything else?" We are British. We are better than that.
Are Rupert Murdoch, Paul Dacre, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Sir James Goldsmith, with his Referendum Party, "the little people" ? The first two, with their multibillion dollar media monster and 30-000 acre grouse-shooting estate respectively, and the last, with his billions ploughed into pro-Brexit forces in Britain in the 1990s, were the mould-breaking Brexiters long before "the little people".
Whereas the Remain campaign was a humble and modest proletarian affair, only supported by all four major parties, the entire government, the prime minister, the Bank of England, the civil service, Channel 4, the Times, most MPs, most journalists, most big business, politicians around the world, the CBI, the entire EU Commission, the EU Parliament, the Guardian, Jeremy Clarkson, J K Rowling, endless celebs, every actor in the word, Barack Obama, and so on and so forth.
Yes, Remain was a ramshackle homemade affair, the tiny David to Nigel Farage's Goliath. FFS.
It wasn't small but it was incompetent. Both in messaging but also in practicalities. Leave rang me months before (a Councillor ring round) to canvass me, remain never did. Remain wrote target mail to my wife not me - she's an EU citizen so couldn't vote, when I could. I have a mate with a postal vote who was rung up by remain a couple of days before and asked if he knew where his polling station was. Our council campaigns would never make these basic mistakes - but remain did. Idiots.
This is different though. O'Rourke has to win a big race first before he can seriously be considered as a general election candidate. Plus Bobby Kennedy's grandson, Joseph P Kennedy III is already a Massachusetts congressman and if he wins a Senate race before O'Rourke he will then become the Democrats new young hope
The media love him precisely because he's a blank slate. Beto is currently nobody, he currently believes nothing, says nothing, and has done nothing.
He's the perfect candidate for a divided party to project whatever the hell political psychoses they want onto.
But you're right, he's eventually going to have to start saying, doing and believing things; if we're lucky, it'll be before he gets the Democratic nomination.
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
You whink, but not like this. My God.
"Sorry! Democracy's cancelled. Fresh out of democracy I'm afraid, would you like anything else?" We are British. We are better than that.
+1 right back at you.
I
As I understood his article, Parris was arguing for MPs to vote through a second referendum. Pompously, it must be said, but he writes: "Our present impasse offers unusual scope for negotiation with the electorate. We did instruct government to negotiate Brexit but there’s no reason why, nearly three years later, we can’t be asked to judge the result."
Now, if you think Brexit as currently constituted is a bloody awful mess, whether that be because you hated the idea to begin with, didn't much care, or agree in principle but think it's been made an appalling hash of, and want to stop it, then democratically there are only two ways - a second referendum or a general election in which a government is elected on a remain mandate. The latter is off the table given the identity of the LotO.
To cancel out one mandate you need a new one - and that's how our democracy has always worked. If you think Brexit is likely to be awful for the country, you have to argue for another referendum. Parris may preen himself infuriatingly while doing so, but I don't think he's arguing for an anti-democratic reversal - even if it would be helpful to remain if he stayed away from TV studios.
Spoilsport.
The PB Brexitloons have whipped themselves into a masturbatory fantasy of outrage and treachery, let them have their fun.
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
You whink, but not like this. My God.
"Sorry! Democracy's cancelled. Fresh out of democracy I'm afraid, would you like anything else?" We are British. We are better than that.
+1 right back at you.
I
As I understood his article, Parris was arguing for MPs to vote through a second referendum. Pompously, it must be said, but he writes: "Our present impasse offers unusual scope for negotiation with the electorate. We did instruct government to negotiate Brexit but there’s no reason why, nearly three years later, we can’t be asked to judge the result."
Now, if you think Brexit as currently constituted is a bloody awful mess, whether that be because you hated the idea to begin with, didn't much care, or agree in principle but think it's been made an appalling hash of, and want to stop it, then democratically there are only two ways - a second referendum or a general election in which a government is elected on a remain mandate. The latter is off the table given the identity of the LotO.
To cancel out one mandate you need a new one - and that's how our democracy has always worked. If you think Brexit is likely to be awful for the country, you have to argue for another referendum. Parris may preen himself infuriatingly while doing so, but I don't think he's arguing for an anti-democratic reversal - even if it would be helpful to remain if he stayed away from TV studios.
The problem is that a referendum is not a 'negotiation' - it is putting options before voters and asking them to choose. There is nothing in that which can resemble a negotiation - it is (in all likelihood) a binary choice - whether that is Deal or No Deal - or Deal or Remain.
So his basic idea immediately fails. It is not and cannot be a negotiation between the state and the electorate.
I haven't posted for a while but read the the threads from time to time and have come to the conclusion positions are as entrenched, and even more bitter.
It is sad to see so much division and nastyness from all sides but for 2019 and my peace of mind, I intend being neutral as much as possible, while rejecting the ultras on both sides
I had to renew our passports this week and after getting passport approved digital photos from our local Asda (not from a booth) and using their unique photo number, the online application sailed through for both of us within a couple of minutes, with instant e mail and text confirmations. Also text tracking of progress to receipt of new passports.
This is different though. O'Rourke has to win a big race first before he can seriously be considered as a general election candidate. Plus Bobby Kennedy's grandson, Joseph P Kennedy III is already a Massachusetts congressman and if he wins a Senate race before O'Rourke he will then become the Democrats new young hope
The media love him precisely because he's a blank slate. Beto is currently nobody, he currently believes nothing, says nothing, and has done nothing.
He's the perfect candidate for a divided party to project whatever the hell political psychoses they want onto.
But you're right, he's eventually going to have to start saying, doing and believing things; if we're lucky, it'll be before he gets the Democratic nomination.
O'Rourke has already ruled out a 2020 bid anyway, I think even he realises he is not ready yet.
Though interestingly he did recount a recent jog by the Washington Memorial with a stop at the Lincoln Monument, Lincoln I think being the last candidate who managed to use a losing Senate race to propel him to the Presidency.
Of course if Trump is re elected in 2020 it could be a Kennedy-O'Rourke ticket in 2024, after all it was a Massachussets-Texas ticket which worked for the Democrats the last time they nominated a Kennedy
Are Rupert Murdoch, Paul Dacre, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Sir James Goldsmith, with his Referendum Party, "the little people" ? The first two, with their multibillion dollar media monster and 30-000 acre grouse-shooting estate respectively, and the last, with his billions ploughed into pro-Brexit forces in Britain in the 1990s, were the mould-breaking Brexiters long before "the little people".
Whereas the Remain campaign was a humble and modest proletarian affair, only supported by all four major parties, the entire government, the prime minister, the Bank of England, the civil service, Channel 4, the Times, most MPs, most journalists, most big business, politicians around the world, the CBI, the entire EU Commission, the EU Parliament, the Guardian, Jeremy Clarkson, J K Rowling, endless celebs, every actor in the word, Barack Obama, and so on and so forth.
Yes, Remain was a ramshackle homemade affair, the tiny David to Nigel Farage's Goliath. FFS.
It wasn't small but it was incompetent. Both in messaging but also in practicalities. Leave rang me months before (a Councillor ring round) to canvass me, remain never did. Remain wrote target mail to my wife not me - she's an EU citizen so couldn't vote, when I could. I have a mate with a postal vote who was rung up by remain a couple of days before and asked if he knew where his polling station was. Our council campaigns would never make these basic mistakes - but remain did. Idiots.
Leave was headed up by Matthew Elliot, a hard headed brawler who had served as campaign director of the No 2 AV campaign in 2012. So pretty much the only man in the UK with real experience of campaigning for and winning a country-wide referendum.
Stronger in - or BSE as it foolishly tried to call itself at one point - was headed up by Will Straw, son of Jack, a red prince of New Labour, who had been given the job despite having no real experience or suitability for the job, in my view simply because the remain establishment thought it would be a shoo-in and a stepping stone on little Will's career.
Leave was headed up by Matthew Elliot, a hard headed brawler who had served as campaign director of the No 2 AV campaign in 2012. So pretty much the only man in the UK with real experience of campaigning for and winning a country-wide referendum.
Stronger in - or BSE as it foolishly tried to call itself at one point - was headed up by Will Straw, son of Jack, a red prince of New Labour, who had been given the job despite having no real experience or suitability for the job, in my view simply because the remain establishment thought it would be a shoo-in and a stepping stone on little Will's career.
For the next referendum, any would-be organizer of the remain campaign should be asked a simple question:
Why is freedom of movement a good thing? If they can't give a proper answer, they don't get anywhere near the campaign.
Are Rupert Murdoch, Paul Dacre, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Sir James Goldsmith, with his Referendum Party, "the little people" ? The first two, with their multibillion dollar media monster and 30-000 acre grouse-shooting estate respectively, and the last, with his billions ploughed into pro-Brexit forces in Britain in the 1990s, were the mould-breaking Brexiters long before "the little people".
Whereas the Remain campaign was a humble and modest proletarian affair, only supported by all four major parties, the entire government, the prime minister, the Bank of England, the civil service, Channel 4, the Times, most MPs, most journalists, most big business, politicians around the world, the CBI, the entire EU Commission, the EU Parliament, the Guardian, Jeremy Clarkson, J K Rowling, endless celebs, every actor in the word, Barack Obama, and so on and so forth.
Yes, Remain was a ramshackle homemade affair, the tiny David to Nigel Farage's Goliath. FFS.
It wasn't small but it was incompetent. Both in messaging but also in practicalities. Leave rang me months before (a Councillor ring round) to canvass me, remain never did. Remain wrote target mail to my wife not me - she's an EU citizen so couldn't vote, when I could. I have a mate with a postal vote who was rung up by remain a couple of days before and asked if he knew where his polling station was. Our council campaigns would never make these basic mistakes - but remain did. Idiots.
Leave was headed up by Matthew Elliot, a hard headed brawler who had served as campaign director of the No 2 AV campaign in 2012. So pretty much the only man in the UK with real experience of campaigning for and winning a country-wide referendum.
Stronger in - or BSE as it foolishly tried to call itself at one point - was headed up by Will Straw, son of Jack, a red prince, who had been given the job despite having no real experience or suitability for the job, in my view simply because the remain establishment thought it would be a shoo-in and a stepping stone on little Will's career.
Weirdly they both later attended a Royal Statistical Society lecture (possibly the Cathie Marsh one, but you can Google) and were on the same stage. I wouldn't call Elliot a hard bastard, but he is smart and prideful. Will was shaken by the defeat and it showed occasionally.
The RSS do put these things online, so if you search their YouTube channel you can see their encounter.
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
You would literally e persuaded to a rethink, but not like this. My God.
Then I realise just how much these people hate freedom. How much they hate the proles. How much they despise the fact the little people for once, stood up and said no. And the colossal two and a half
"Sorry! Democracy's cancelled. Fresh out of democracy I'm afraid, would you like anything else?" We are British. We are better than that.
Are Rupert Murdoch, Paul Dacre, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Sir James Goldsmith, with his Referendum Party, "the little people" ? The first two, with their multibillion dollar media monster and 30-000 acre grouse-shooting estate respectively, and the last, with his billions ploughed into pro-Brexit forces in Britain in the 1990s, were the mould-breaking Brexiters long before "the little people".
Whereas the Remain campaign was a humble and modest proletarian affair, only supported by all four major parties, the entire government, the prime minister, the Bank of England, the civil service, Channel 4, the Times, most MPs, most journalists, most big business, politicians around the world, the CBI, the entire EU Commission, the EU Parliament, the Guardian, Jeremy Clarkson, J K Rowling, endless celebs, every actor in the word, Barack Obama, and so on and so forth.
Yes, Remain was a ramshackle homemade affair, the tiny David to Nigel Farage's Goliath. FFS.
It wasn't small but it was incompetent. Both in messaging but also in practicalities. Leave rang me months before (a Councillor ring round) to canvass me, remain never did. Remain wrote target mail to my wife not me - she's an EU citizen so couldn't vote, when I could. I have a mate with a postal vote who was rung up by remain a couple of days before and asked if he knew where his polling station was. Our council campaigns would never make these basic mistakes - but remain did. Idiots.
My experience of the Leave campaign on the ground was it was poorly organised, but it may have been different elsewhere.
Are Rupert Murdoch, Paul Dacre, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Sir James Goldsmith, with his Referendum Party, "the little people" ? The first two, with their multibillion dollar media monster and 30-000 acre grouse-shooting estate respectively, and the last, with his billions ploughed into pro-Brexit forces in Britain in the 1990s, were the mould-breaking Brexiters long before "the little people".
Whereas the Remain campaign was a humble and modest proletarian affair, only supported by all four major parties, the entire government, the prime minister, the Bank of England, the civil service, Channel 4, the Times, most MPs, most journalists, most big business, politicians around the world, the CBI, the entire EU Commission, the EU Parliament, the Guardian, Jeremy Clarkson, J K Rowling, endless celebs, every actor in the word, Barack Obama, and so on and so forth.
Yes, Remain was a ramshackle homemade affair, the tiny David to Nigel Farage's Goliath. FFS.
It wasn't small but it was incompetent. Both in messaging but also in practicalities. Leave rang me months before (a Councillor ring round) to canvass me, remain never did. Remain wrote target mail to my wife not me - she's an EU citizen so couldn't vote, when I could. I have a mate with a postal vote who was rung up by remain a couple of days before and asked if he knew where his polling station was. Our council campaigns would never make these basic mistakes - but remain did. Idiots.
Leave was headed up by Matthew Elliot, a hard headed brawler who had served as campaign director of the No 2 AV campaign in 2012. So pretty much the only man in the UK with real experience of campaigning for and winning a country-wide referendum.
Stronger in - or BSE as it foolishly tried to call itself at one point - was headed up by Will Straw, son of Jack, a red prince of New Labour, who had been given the job despite having no real experience or suitability for the job, in my view simply because the remain establishment thought it would be a shoo-in and a stepping stone on little Will's career.
Good point. It would be instructive to go thru each of the campaign's (stronger in, vote leave, leave.eu) and note who did what and when.
Leave was headed up by Matthew Elliot, a hard headed brawler who had served as campaign director of the No 2 AV campaign in 2012. So pretty much the only man in the UK with real experience of campaigning for and winning a country-wide referendum.
Stronger in - or BSE as it foolishly tried to call itself at one point - was headed up by Will Straw, son of Jack, a red prince of New Labour, who had been given the job despite having no real experience or suitability for the job, in my view simply because the remain establishment thought it would be a shoo-in and a stepping stone on little Will's career.
For the next referendum, any would-be organizer of the remain campaign should be asked a simple question:
Why is freedom of movement a good thing? If they can't give a proper answer, they don't get anywhere near the campaign.
I could answer that question, the problem is that the public wouldn't agree with the answer.
I assume she isn't going to, but not sure if that's a safe assumption.
I find it hard to see how she can avoid a term of 12 months+. Even if it were suspended, she'd have to go.
Though if she gets a sentence of 11 months I think she can legally serve her constituents from jail
She can legally do that. Morally she should resign under those circumstances.
Perverting the course of justice is just too serious a crime for any other choice to be acceptable.
Maybe for most but she does not have many other options open to her now and she clearly believes she is innocent whatever the courts rule so she could do it anyway
I haven't posted for a while but read the the threads from time to time and have come to the conclusion positions are as entrenched, and even more bitter.
It is sad to see so much division and nastyness from all sides but for 2019 and my peace of mind, I intend being neutral as much as possible, while rejecting the ultras on both sides
I had to renew our passports this week and after getting passport approved digital photos from our local Asda (not from a booth) and using their unique photo number, the online application sailed through for both of us within a couple of minutes, with instant e mail and text confirmations. Also text tracking of progress to receipt of new passports.
Whereas the Remain campaign was a humble and modest proletarian affair, only supported by all four major parties, the entire government, the prime minister, the Bank of England, the civil service, Channel 4, the Times, most MPs, most journalists, most big business, politicians around the world, the CBI, the entire EU Commission, the EU Parliament, the Guardian, Jeremy Clarkson, J K Rowling, endless celebs, every actor in the word, Barack Obama, and so on and so forth.
Yes, Remain was a ramshackle homemade affair, the tiny David to Nigel Farage's Goliath. FFS.
It wasn't small but it was incompetent. Both in messaging but also in practicalities. Leave rang me months before (a Councillor ring round) to canvass me, remain never did. Remain wrote target mail to my wife not me - she's an EU citizen so couldn't vote, when I could. I have a mate with a postal vote who was rung up by remain a couple of days before and asked if he knew where his polling station was. Our council campaigns would never make these basic mistakes - but remain did. Idiots.
Leave was headed up by Matthew Elliot, a hard headed brawler who had served as campaign director of the No 2 AV campaign in 2012. So pretty much the only man in the UK with real experience of campaigning for and winning a country-wide referendum.
Stronger in - or BSE as it foolishly tried to call itself at one point - was headed up by Will Straw, son of Jack, a red prince, who had been given the job despite having no real experience or suitability for the job, in my view simply because the remain establishment thought it would be a shoo-in and a stepping stone on little Will's career.
Weirdly they both later attended a Royal Statistical Society lecture (possibly the Cathie Marsh one, but you can Google) and were on the same stage. I wouldn't call Elliot a hard bastard, but he is smart and prideful. Will was shaken by the defeat and it showed occasionally.
The RSS do put these things online, so if you search their YouTube channel you can see their encounter.
Thanks, I'll check it out. I have met Matt Elliot and had the same impression. In fact discovering he was heading up Vote Leave was the main reason why I put a substantial sum (my first ever political bet) on leave.
Theresa May has given JOHN FUCKING REDWOOD a knighthood.
Jesus H. Corbett.
George Osborne is a Companion of Honour, so it's hardly unprecedented. Although given that Redwood hasn't completed his Kolinahr yet, it's arguably premature.
I assume she isn't going to, but not sure if that's a safe assumption.
I find it hard to see how she can avoid a term of 12 months+. Even if it were suspended, she'd have to go.
Though if she gets a sentence of 11 months I think she can legally serve her constituents from jail
She can legally do that. Morally she should resign under those circumstances.
Perverting the course of justice is just too serious a crime for any other choice to be acceptable.
Maybe for most but she does not have many other options open to her now and she clearly believes she is innocent whatever the courts rule so she could do it anyway
If she doesn't quit, there will be a recall petition.
She will also face the wrath of her professional body - you can't be a solicitor with a conviction like that.
For the sake of a £60 fine and a speed awareness course, she has wrecked her career.
No doubt some pressure group will find her a job - but she has ruined her legal and political career.
I haven't posted for a while but read the the threads from time to time and have come to the conclusion positions are as entrenched, and even more bitter.
It is sad to see so much division and nastyness from all sides but for 2019 and my peace of mind, I intend being neutral as much as possible, while rejecting the ultras on both sides
I had to renew our passports this week and after getting passport approved digital photos from our local Asda (not from a booth) and using their unique photo number, the online application sailed through for both of us within a couple of minutes, with instant e mail and text confirmations. Also text tracking of progress to receipt of new passports.
Very impressed with this IT process.
Now if they could only do it for railcars... 😀
Railcars??
Railcards.Typo. Small tablet. Big thumbs. Technology bad.
George Osborne is a Companion of Honour, so it's hardly unprecedented. Although given that Redwood hasn't completed his Kolinahr yet, it's arguably premature.
I'm not going to google, merely assume this is some atrocious Star Trek insider's joke.
I assume she isn't going to, but not sure if that's a safe assumption.
I find it hard to see how she can avoid a term of 12 months+. Even if it were suspended, she'd have to go.
Though if she gets a sentence of 11 months I think she can legally serve her constituents from jail
She can legally do that. Morally she should resign under those circumstances.
Perverting the course of justice is just too serious a crime for any other choice to be acceptable.
Maybe for most but she does not have many other options open to her now and she clearly believes she is innocent whatever the courts rule so she could do it anyway
She compared herself to Jesus, so she's in the grip of some kind of delusion
Are Rupert Murdoch, Paul Dacre, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Sir James Goldsmith, with his Referendum Party, "the little people" ? The first two, with their multibillion dollar media monster and 30-000 acre grouse-shooting estate respectively, and the last, with his billions ploughed into pro-Brexit forces in Britain in the 1990s, were the mould-breaking Brexiters long before "the little people".
Whereas the Remain campaign was a humble and modest proletarian affair, only supported by all four major parties, the entire government, the prime minister, the Bank of England, the civil service, Channel 4, the Times, most MPs, most journalists, most big business, politicians around the world, the CBI, the entire EU Commission, the EU Parliament, the Guardian, Jeremy Clarkson, J K Rowling, endless celebs, every actor in the word, Barack Obama, and so on and so forth.
Yes, Remain was a ramshackle homemade affair, the tiny David to Nigel Farage's Goliath. FFS.
It wasn't small but it was incompetent. Both in messaging but also in practicalities. Leave rang me months before (a Councillor ring round) to canvass me, remain never did. Remain wrote target mail to my wife not me - she's an EU citizen so couldn't vote, when I could. I have a mate with a postal vote who was rung up by remain a couple of days before and asked if he knew where his polling station was. Our council campaigns would never make these basic mistakes - but remain did. Idiots.
Leave was headed up by Matthew Elliot, a hard headed brawler who had served as campaign director of the No 2 AV campaign in 2012. So pretty much the only man in the UK with real experience of campaigning for and winning a country-wide referendum.
Stronger in - or BSE as it foolishly tried to call itself at one point - was headed up by Will Straw, son of Jack, a red prince of New Labour, who had been given the job despite having no real experience or suitability for the job, in my view simply because the remain establishment thought it would be a shoo-in and a stepping stone on little Will's career.
In defence of Cameron and Osborne they questioned the appointment of Straw as being light weight and were reassured by the board, Sainsbury, Mandelson, Clegg and Damian Green that Mandleson would be the real person pulling the strings. It was Clegg that was the big advocate for Straw. The real problem they had though was they appointed the ex Head of Strategy of the Lib Dems for their time in coalition. How the hell they thought that a person that had proved an abject failure was the person to win a campaign against Cummings, who they all knew very well, is one of the imponderables of the time. But still the person who bears the most responsibility for losing the ref is Clegg.
I assume she isn't going to, but not sure if that's a safe assumption.
I find it hard to see how she can avoid a term of 12 months+. Even if it were suspended, she'd have to go.
Though if she gets a sentence of 11 months I think she can legally serve her constituents from jail
She can legally do that. Morally she should resign under those circumstances.
Perverting the course of justice is just too serious a crime for any other choice to be acceptable.
Maybe for most but she does not have many other options open to her now and she clearly believes she is innocent whatever the courts rule so she could do it anyway
If she doesn't quit, there will be a recall petition.
She will also face the wrath of her professional body - you can't be a solicitor with a conviction like that.
For the sake of a £60 fine and a speed awareness course, she has wrecked her career.
No doubt some pressure group will find her a job - but she has ruined her legal and political career.
Her legal career is over regardless, so from her point of view she may as well keep pocketing her MPs pay and pension as long as she can.
I haven't posted for a while but read the the threads from time to time and have come to the conclusion positions are as entrenched, and even more bitter.
It is sad to see so much division and nastyness from all sides but for 2019 and my peace of mind, I intend being neutral as much as possible, while rejecting the ultras on both sides
I had to renew our passports this week and after getting passport approved digital photos from our local Asda (not from a booth) and using their unique photo number, the online application sailed through for both of us within a couple of minutes, with instant e mail and text confirmations. Also text tracking of progress to receipt of new passports.
Very impressed with this IT process.
Now if they could only do it for railcars... 😀
Railcars??
Railcards.Typo. Small tablet. Big thumbs. Technology bad.
I know the Class 710s are late rolling out on the Gospel Oak line but wasn't aware of any IT issues!
I assume she isn't going to, but not sure if that's a safe assumption.
I find it hard to see how she can avoid a term of 12 months+. Even if it were suspended, she'd have to go.
Though if she gets a sentence of 11 months I think she can legally serve her constituents from jail
She can legally do that. Morally she should resign under those circumstances.
Perverting the course of justice is just too serious a crime for any other choice to be acceptable.
Maybe for most but she does not have many other options open to her now and she clearly believes she is innocent whatever the courts rule so she could do it anyway
She compared herself to Jesus, so she's in the grip of some kind of delusion
No doubt she can also do an Aitken if needed when she comes out
George Osborne is a Companion of Honour, so it's hardly unprecedented. Although given that Redwood hasn't completed his Kolinahr yet, it's arguably premature.
I'm not going to google, merely assume this is some atrocious Star Trek insider's joke.
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
You would literally revoke? So the British people would thereafter know that they live in a kind of dystopic pretendy democracy, where any vote can be simply overruled by the MPs and the Establishment, if they don't like it. Turning us, in a trice, into a kind of fake "people's democracy" like the old East Germany, or Ceaucescu's Romania. And thereby ending 1000 years of slowly developing suffrage.
Who and why would anyone ever vote for anything ever again? What would be the point, knowing that MPs could simply say MEH and overrule you, and ignore all the results?
Might as well abandon elections. The nation that first invented parliamentary democracy would be the nation that first ended it.
Take a good, long look at yourself, and at what you are proposing, and what you have become. I shan't say any more for fear of losing my temper.
And I am a nervous Leaver who could be persuaded to a rethink, but not like this. My God.
Enjoy your drive over brexit cliff
Or the total loss of sovereivnty negotiated by Mrs May
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
You would literally revoke? So the British people would thereafter know that they live in a kind of dystopic pretendy democracy, where any vote can be simply overruled by the MPs and the Establishment, if they don't like it. Turning us, in a trice, into a kind of fake "people's democracy" like the old East Germany, or Ceaucescu's Romania. And thereby ending 1000 years of slowly developing suffrage.
Who and why would anyone ever vote for anything ever again? What would be the point, knowing that MPs could simply say MEH and overrule you, and ignore all the results?
Might as well abandon elections. The nation that first invented parliamentary democracy would be the nation that first ended it.
Take a good, long look at yourself, and at what you are proposing, and what you have become. I shan't say any more for fear of losing my temper.
And I am a nervous Leaver who could be persuaded to a rethink, but not like this. My God.
Enjoy your drive over brexit cliff
Or the total loss of sovereivnty negotiated by Mrs May
Because tbose are your options
Total loss of sovereignty my arse. As remainers oft say, we were always sovereign (even when we weren’t, de facto)
Theresa May has given JOHN FUCKING REDWOOD a knighthood.
Jesus H. Corbett.
A helpful and appropriate summing-up of who dominates the governing party, and have done since the original "bastards", of which Redwood proudly counted himself a member, standing alongside Tony Marlow in his blazer, lost the battle but won the war.
Theresa May has given JOHN FUCKING REDWOOD a knighthood.
Jesus H. Corbett.
A helpful and appropriate summing-up of who dominates the governing party, and have done since the original "bastards", of which Redwood proudly counted himself a member, standing alongside Tony Marlow in his blazer, lost the battle but won the war.
If that were the case we would be straight to No Deal now
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
You whink, but not like this. My God.
+1
Well said.
I actually look at Brexit some days and think my God! this is turning into a nightmare. And on those days I think if I were offered the chance to reconsider in a second referendum, I would have to carefully consider whether the cost of freedom is too great, whether it would be an act of economic self harm... Freedom is great but you can't live on it and if we were sucked into the EU superstate well, wouldn't we just be like those Russians living under the tsar or the chairman or whoever who simply sighed, shrugged, and got on and made the best of living under their lot?
Then I realise just how much these people hate freedom. How much they hate the proles. How much they despise the fact the little people for once, stood up and said no. And the colossal two and a half year tantrum they have had since that day. And I know that I could never stand to be on the same side as them. Nor allow them to simply revoke the results of the referendum.
"Sorry! Democracy's cancelled. Fresh out of democracy I'm afraid, would you like anything else?" We are British. We are better than that.
+1 right back at you.
I think people like Parris have now gone diagnostically mad. What they propose is lunatically dangerous, and destructive. They've lost all sense of political decency, of doing the moral thing. And they think they are the "sensible centre". Jesus fucking Christ.
He's worse than any Kipper, or Corbynite, or the most rabid Scot Nat. He's morally inferior to the BNP, at least they didn't want to end democracy.
I sat next to him at my uncle’s golden wedding lunch a few months ago and can, sadly, confirm you are right (I’ve met him a few times over the last 20 years and always found him most enjoyable company)
Theresa May has given JOHN FUCKING REDWOOD a knighthood.
Jesus H. Corbett.
For services to twattery?
For services to voting in favour of the government.
Not even that. Normally you give the baubles for services rendered. John Redwood doesn't vote with the government. Theresa May might as well give the knighthood to Jeremy Corbyn. He's more useful to her.
Theresa May has given JOHN FUCKING REDWOOD a knighthood.
Jesus H. Corbett.
A helpful and appropriate summing-up of who dominates the governing party, and have done since the original "bastards", of which Redwood proudly counted himself a member, standing alongside Tony Marlow in his blazer, lost the battle but won the war.
If that were the case we would be straight to No Deal now
Theresa May has given JOHN FUCKING REDWOOD a knighthood.
Jesus H. Corbett.
A helpful and appropriate summing-up of who dominates the governing party, and have done since the original "bastards", of which Redwood proudly counted himself a member, standing alongside Tony Marlow in his blazer, lost the battle but won the war.
If that were the case we would be straight to No Deal now
We are.
We are not, we have a PM who has negotiated a Deal with the EU she intends to get through Parliament
Are Rupert Murdoch, Paul Dacre, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Sir James Goldsmith, with his Referendum Party, "the little people" ? The first two, with their multibillion dollar media monster and 30-000 acre grouse-shooting estate respectively, and the last, with his billions ploughed into pro-Brexit forces in Britain in the 1990s, were the mould-breaking Brexiters long before "the little people".
Whereas the Remain campaign was a humble and modest proletarian affair, only supported by all four major parties, the entire government, the prime minister, the Bank of England, the civil service, Channel 4, the Times, most MPs, most journalists, most big business, politicians around the world, the CBI, the entire EU Commission, the EU Parliament, the Guardian, Jeremy Clarkson, J K Rowling, endless celebs, every actor in the word, Barack Obama, and so on and so forth.
Yes, Remain was a ramshackle homemade affair, the tiny David to Nigel Farage's Goliath. FFS.
It wasn't small but it was incompetent. Both in messaging but also in practicalities. Leave rang me months before (a Councillor ring round) to canvass me, remain never did. Remain wrote target mail to my wife not me - she's an EU citizen so couldn't vote, when I could. I have a mate with a postal vote who was rung up by remain a couple of days before and asked if he knew where his polling station was. Our council campaigns would never make these basic mistakes - but remain did. Idiots.
Leave was headed up by Matthew Elliot, a hard headed brawler who had served as campaign director of the No 2 AV campaign in 2012. So pretty much the only man in the UK with real experience of campaigning for and winning a country-wide referendum.
Stronger in - or BSE as it foolishly tried to call itself at one point - was headed up by Will Straw, son of Jack, a red prince of New Labour, who had been given the job despite having no real experience or suitability for the job, in my view simply because the remain establishment thought it would be a shoo-in and a stepping stone on little Will's career.
In defence of Cameron and Osborne they questioned the appointment of Straw as being light weight and were reassured by the board, Sainsbury, Mandelson, Clegg and Damian Green that Mandleson would be the real person pulling the strings. It was Clegg that was the big advocate for Straw. The real problem they had though was they appointed the ex Head of Strategy of the Lib Dems for their time in coalition. How the hell they thought that a person that had proved an abject failure was the person to win a campaign against Cummings, who they all knew very well, is one of the imponderables of the time. But still the person who bears the most responsibility for losing the ref is Clegg.
Clegg?
A minor 4th party has-been?
If anyone let him have any responsibilty they deserve the result.
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
You would literally e persuaded to a rethink, but not like this. My God.
Then I realise just how much these people hate freedom. How much they hate the proles. How much they despise the fact the little people for once, stood up and said no. And the colossal two a that.
Whereas the Remain campaign was a humble and modest proletarian affir, only supported by all four major parties, the entire government, the prime minister, the Bank of England, the civil service, Channel 4, the Times, most MPs, most journalists, most big business, politicians around the world, the CBI, the entire EU Commission, the EU Parliament, the Guardian, Jeremy Clarkson, J K Rowling, endless celebs, every actor in the word, Barack Obama, and so on and so forth.
Yes, Remain was a ramshackle homemade affair, the tiny David to Nigel Farage's Goliath. FFS.
It wasn't small but it was incompetent. Both in messaging but also in practicalities. Leave rang me months before (a Councillor ring round) to canvass me, remain never did. Remain wrote target mail to my wife not me - she's an EU citizen so couldn't vote, when I could. I have a mate with a postal vote who was rung up by remain a couple of days before and asked if he knew where his polling station was. Our council campaigns would never make these basic mistakes - but remain did. Idiots.
My experience of the Leave campaign on the ground was it was poorly organised, but it may have been different elsewhere.
That matches with anecdotes I heard locally. But centrally Vote Leave was inspired. Waiting to the purdah period before putting all their key messages on immigration into play and their (admittedly unlawful) spend on ads when the government could no longer respond.
And that genius fantasy football site offering a huge prize for predicting the Euro 2016 results, which thousands entered giving canvass data for zero work to Vote Leave. They may have been a shambles on the ground, but devastatingly effective where it mattered.
Agree with kyf_100 comments on the campaign leaders. Stuart Rose and Will Straw a disastrous choice to head Remain - my pick would have been Jeremy Clarkson.
George Osborne is a Companion of Honour, so it's hardly unprecedented. Although given that Redwood hasn't completed his Kolinahr yet, it's arguably premature.
I'm not going to google, merely assume this is some atrocious Star Trek insider's joke.
"Kolinahr" is a rite that some Vulcans undergo to purge themselves of emotion. Spock's failure to successfully complete the rite is a plot point in the 1979 film "Star Trek: The Motion Picture".
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
You would literally e persuaded to a rethink, but not like this. My God.
Then I realise just how much these people hate freedom. How much they hate the proles. How much they despise the fact the little people for once, stood up and said no. And the colossal two a that.
Whereas the Remain campaign was a humble and modest proletarian affir, only supported by all four major parties, the entire government, the prime minister, the Bank of England, the civil service, Channel 4, the Times, most big business, politicians around the world, the CBI, the .
It wasn't small but it was incompetent. Both in messaging but also in practicalities. Leave rang me months before (a Councillor ring round) to canvass me, remain never did. Remain wrote target mail to my wife not me - she's an EU citizen so couldn't vote, when I could. I have a mate with a postal vote who was rung up by remain a couple of days before and asked if he knew where his polling station was. Our council campaigns would never make these basic mistakes - but remain did. Idiots.
My experience of the Leave campaign on the ground was it was poorly organised, but it may have been different elsewhere.
That matches with anecdotes I heard locally. But centrally Vote Leave was inspired. Waiting to the purdah period before putting all their key messages on immigration into play and their (admittedly unlawful) spend on ads when the government could no longer respond.
And that genius fantasy football site offering a huge prize for predicting the Euro 2016 results, which thousands entered giving canvass data for zero work to Vote Leave. They may have been a shambles on the ground, but devastatingly effective where it mattered.
Agree with kyf_100 comments on the campaign leaders. Stuart Rose and Will Straw a disastrous choice to head Remain - my pick would have been Jeremy Clarkson.
The central messaging was indeed effective, and as weak as the Leave ground game was, outside of London and bigger cities Remain seemed to barely register. In my large town we had a VL stall every weekend for 6 weeks, IIRC, and in that same time I saw one solitary ‘Labour In’ chap standing around failing to get anyone to take his leaflets.
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
You whink, but not like this. My God.
"Sorry! Democracy's cancelled. Fresh out of democracy I'm afraid, would you like anything else?" We are British. We are better than that.
+1 right back at you.
I
As I understood his article, Parris was arguing for MPs to vote through a second referendum. Pompously, it must be said, but he writes: "Our present impasse offers unusual scope for negotiation with the electorate. We did instruct government to negotiate Brexit but there’s no reason why, nearly three years later, we can’t be asked to judge the result."
The problem is that a referendum is not a 'negotiation' - it is putting options before voters and asking them to choose. There is nothing in that which can resemble a negotiation - it is (in all likelihood) a binary choice - whether that is Deal or No Deal - or Deal or Remain.
So his basic idea immediately fails. It is not and cannot be a negotiation between the state and the electorate.
That's not what Parris was referring to I think, but the general democratic process - which requires politicians to strike a balance between what voters want and demand and what they think is right for the country - and to attempt to negotiate, cajole, and persuade rather than follow the will (or whim) of the people.
Essentially I think his argument is this.
1. 400 or so MPs believe the two Brexit options on the table - May's deal or No deal, are deeply damaging the country. 2. If they believe this, then it is their duty to act to avert these outcomes via the only other alternative - remain. 3. To get to that outcome they will have to persuade and negotiate with the electorate to change their minds, a change of mind that would have to be given democratic legitimacy. 4. This is likely a referendum, as it's the only method available given the timescale and the Labour leadership's ill-concealed desire for Brexit as a means to an ersatz Bennite future.
Theresa May has given JOHN FUCKING REDWOOD a knighthood.
Jesus H. Corbett.
For services to twattery?
For services to voting in favour of the government.
Not even that. Normally you give the baubles for services rendered. John Redwood doesn't vote with the government. Theresa May might as well give the knighthood to Jeremy Corbyn. He's more useful to her.
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
You would literally revoke? So the British people would thereafter know that they live in a kind of dystopic pretendy democracy, where any vote can be simply overruled by the MPs and the Establishment, if they don't like it. Turning us, in a trice, into a kind of fake "people's democracy" like the old East Germany, or Ceaucescu's Romania. And thereby ending 1000 years of slowly developing suffrage.
Who and why would anyone ever vote for anything ever again? What would be the point, knowing that MPs could simply say MEH and overrule you, and ignore all the results?
Might as well abandon elections. The nation that first invented parliamentary democracy would be the nation that first ended it.
Take a good, long look at yourself, and at what you are proposing, and what you have become. I shan't say any more for fear of losing my temper.
And I am a nervous Leaver who could be persuaded to a rethink, but not like this. My God.
Enjoy your drive over brexit cliff
Or the total loss of sovereivnty negotiated by Mrs May
George Osborne is a Companion of Honour, so it's hardly unprecedented. Although given that Redwood hasn't completed his Kolinahr yet, it's arguably premature.
I'm not going to google, merely assume this is some atrocious Star Trek insider's joke.
"Kolinahr" is a rite that some Vulcans undergo to purge themselves of emotion. Spock's failure to successfully complete the rite is a plot point in the 1979 film "Star Trek: The Motion Picture".
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
You would literally revoke? So the British people would thereafter know that they live in a kind of dystopic pretendy democracy, where any vote can be simply overruled by the MPs and the Establishment, if they don't like it. Turning us, in a trice, into a kind of fake "people's democracy" like the old East Germany, or Ceaucescu's Romania. And thereby ending 1000 years of slowly developing suffrage.
Who and why would anyone ever vote for anything ever again? What would be the point, knowing that MPs could simply say MEH and overrule you, and ignore all the results?
Might as well abandon elections. The nation that first invented parliamentary democracy would be the nation that first ended it.
Take a good, long look at yourself, and at what you are proposing, and what you have become. I shan't say any more for fear of losing my temper.
And I am a nervous Leaver who could be persuaded to a rethink, but not like this. My God.
Enjoy your drive over brexit cliff
Or the total loss of sovereivnty negotiated by Mrs May
Because tbose are your options
Nothing in between, nothing at all?..........
Get a grip
No. Nothing in between. WTO, May's deal or Remain. That is the reality of where we are
So, why is Twiggy being made a Dame? I’m sure she’s perfectly nice but other than some M&S ads and being a model decades ago, what is the Damehood for, exactly?
I assume she isn't going to, but not sure if that's a safe assumption.
It's the same offence as Chris Huhne, but with two aggravating factors:
1. Huhne plead guilty, albeit very late in the day 2. She is a solicitor
Huhne was sentenced to eight months in prison. I would therefore expect her to be right around the year level.
Plus she tried to pin the blame on her brother, claimed she was too incompetent/ill/stupid to understand the simple process of telling the truth on the form and now seems to believe she is like Jesus.
I don't want to be mean but does anyone know why Alastair Cook has been given a knighthood? His record was good but hardly world beating.
Youngest Englishman to score 2,000, 3,000, 4,000, 5,000 and 6,000 Test runs. Youngest player (from any country) to score 6,000, 7,000, 8,000, 9,000, 10,000, 11,000 and 12,000 runs in Test cricket. Second opener (after Indian opener Sunil Gavaskar) to reach over 10,000 Test runs, first opener to reach over 11,000 and 12,000 Test runs.
and for the simple reason that in 2010/2011 he stood at the crease in Australia and stroked the Aussies all around their grounds.
I assume she isn't going to, but not sure if that's a safe assumption.
It's the same offence as Chris Huhne, but with two aggravating factors:
1. Huhne plead guilty, albeit very late in the day 2. She is a solicitor
Huhne was sentenced to eight months in prison. I would therefore expect her to be right around the year level.
Plus she tried to pin the blame on her brother, claimed she was too incompetent/ill/stupid to understand the simple process of telling the truth on the form and now seems to believe she is like Jesus.
Lack of remorse is an additional aggravating factor.
So, why is Twiggy being made a Dame? I’m sure she’s perfectly nice but other than some M&S ads and being a model decades ago, what is the Damehood for, exactly?
So, why is Twiggy being made a Dame? I’m sure she’s perfectly nice but other than some M&S ads and being a model decades ago, what is the Damehood for, exactly?
What is the Monarchy for, exactly?
Socialism for the few, not the many... as it should be!
I assume she isn't going to, but not sure if that's a safe assumption.
It's the same offence as Chris Huhne, but with two aggravating factors:
1. Huhne plead guilty, albeit very late in the day 2. She is a solicitor
Huhne was sentenced to eight months in prison. I would therefore expect her to be right around the year level.
Plus she tried to pin the blame on her brother, claimed she was too incompetent/ill/stupid to understand the simple process of telling the truth on the form and now seems to believe she is like Jesus.
Lack of remorse is an additional aggravating factor.
I think she genuinely believes she didn't do anything wrong - so why should she show any remorse? The court clearly thought otherwise.
But her post-conviction posturing will not go in her favour. A bit of humility might have helped.
I assume she isn't going to, but not sure if that's a safe assumption.
It's the same offence as Chris Huhne, but with two aggravating factors:
1. Huhne plead guilty, albeit very late in the day 2. She is a solicitor
Huhne was sentenced to eight months in prison. I would therefore expect her to be right around the year level.
Plus she tried to pin the blame on her brother, claimed she was too incompetent/ill/stupid to understand the simple process of telling the truth on the form and now seems to believe she is like Jesus.
Lack of remorse is an additional aggravating factor.
I think she genuinely believes she didn't do anything wrong - so why should she show any remorse? The court clearly thought otherwise.
But her post-conviction posturing will not go in her favour. A bit of humility might have helped.
If she genuinely believes that she didn't do anything wrong, and we accept that she's an intelligent woman, then that says a great deal about her sense of ethics and concept of right and wrong. The evidence is damning.
Comments
If they are deemed good enough for everyone else they should be good enough for this.
It is sad to see so much division and nastyness from all sides but for 2019 and my peace of mind, I intend being neutral as much as possible, while rejecting the ultras on both sides
I had to renew our passports this week and after getting passport approved digital photos from our local Asda (not from a booth) and using their unique photo number, the online application sailed through for both of us within a couple of minutes, with instant e mail and text confirmations. Also text tracking of progress to receipt of new passports.
Very impressed with this IT process.
Is a solicitor who did the same crime but did not plead guilty and has shown no remorse likely to get 4 extra months?
"Biden. His Time."
I have no idea what sentence she will get. I don’t think she has any business being an MP though. Looking at her and Jared Smith says a lot about the current Labour Party.
Well said.
I actually look at Brexit some days and think my God! this is turning into a nightmare. And on those days I think if I were offered the chance to reconsider in a second referendum, I would have to carefully consider whether the cost of freedom is too great, whether it would be an act of economic self harm... Freedom is great but you can't live on it and if we were sucked into the EU superstate well, wouldn't we just be like those Russians living under the tsar or the chairman or whoever who simply sighed, shrugged, and got on and made the best of living under their lot?
Then I realise just how much these people hate freedom. How much they hate the proles. How much they despise the fact the little people for once, stood up and said no. And the colossal two and a half year tantrum they have had since that day. And I know that I could never stand to be on the same side as them. Nor allow them to simply revoke the results of the referendum.
"Sorry! Democracy's cancelled. Fresh out of democracy I'm afraid, would you like anything else?" We are British. We are better than that.
My understanding is that a suspended sentence of 12 months would also count as being an automatic disqualification from Parliament. So that is one option on the table.
I think the fact that she is a trained solicitor as well as a Member of Parliament counts against her - legal professionals and law-makers are rightly held to a higher standard - particularly when it comes to matters of honesty.
Also the fact that she didn't plead guilty - and, indeed, tried to put the blame on her brother (who did plead guilty) - looks bad for her.
If the sentence is insufficient to trigger ejection from Parliament, a recall petition will be started - and, I suspect, likely to succeed in triggering a by-election. She has been stripped of the Labour Whip and so is not likely to be re-selected as an Official Labour Candidate (if the NEC have any sense whatsoever - which is not a given) - so she could seek to contest as an independent and lose.
The only way I can see her staying as MP for Peterborough is if the recall process fails. We should all work to make sure it doesn't.
Biden-O'Rourke or Sanders-O'Rourke are very possible 2020 tickets though
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/12/28/exclusive-civil-servant-accuses-ministers-project-fear-mark/
So no end of days after all then......
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/12/28/exclusive-civil-servant-accuses-ministers-project-fear-mark/
So no end of days after all then......
O'Rourke - Biden (or someone of a similar vintage to provide Executive experience on the ticket)
Plus no presidential nominee in post war history has won the nomination without first being a VP, Senator or Governor unless they were a billionaire like Trump or top General like IKE and O'Rourke is still not in any of those categories after losing the Texas Senate race last year.
O"Rourke's only chance in 2020 is the VP slot in my view, otherwise he will have to wait for 2024 or 2028 if he has won the Texas governorship or a Senate race by then. Indeed of those nominated in the last 25 years to take on an incumbent president ie Dole, Kerry, Romney all were over 60 and in Dole's case over 70. Dole and Kerry were both senior Senators and Romney the former Governor of Massachusetts
I comfortably predict the government will be staring down the barrel of a boycott of a size we've not seen since the Poll Tax.
I hope Theresa has set aside money for building concentration camps and mass deportation barges for non-compliant ILLEGAL EUROPEANS.
"Dear All
Please note that from now on all ballot papers will be pre-completed by the Establishment in order to ensure results are in accordance to their wishes
Thank you for your undertanding."
It all just tends to hinge on which Establishment exactly one is interested in scrutinising.
Now, if you think Brexit as currently constituted is a bloody awful mess, whether that be because you hated the idea to begin with, didn't much care, or agree in principle but think it's been made an appalling hash of, and want to stop it, then democratically there are only two ways - a second referendum or a general election in which a government is elected on a remain mandate. The latter is off the table given the identity of the LotO.
To cancel out one mandate you need a new one - and that's how our democracy has always worked. If you think Brexit is likely to be awful for the country, you have to argue for another referendum. Parris may preen himself infuriatingly while doing so, but I don't think he's arguing for an anti-democratic reversal - even if it would be helpful to remain if he stayed away from TV studios.
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk//top-stories/nigel-farage-is-left-speechless-on-his-own-lbc-radio-show-1-5631235
It's the kindest thing to do for a dumb animal that's suffering.
He's the perfect candidate for a divided party to project whatever the hell political psychoses they want onto.
But you're right, he's eventually going to have to start saying, doing and believing things; if we're lucky, it'll be before he gets the Democratic nomination.
The PB Brexitloons have whipped themselves into a masturbatory fantasy of outrage and treachery, let them have their fun.
Pause.
You may now hate me... 😀
So his basic idea immediately fails. It is not and cannot be a negotiation between the state and the electorate.
Though interestingly he did recount a recent jog by the Washington Memorial with a stop at the Lincoln Monument, Lincoln I think being the last candidate who managed to use a losing Senate race to propel him to the Presidency.
Of course if Trump is re elected in 2020 it could be a Kennedy-O'Rourke ticket in 2024, after all it was a Massachussets-Texas ticket which worked for the Democrats the last time they nominated a Kennedy
Stronger in - or BSE as it foolishly tried to call itself at one point - was headed up by Will Straw, son of Jack, a red prince of New Labour, who had been given the job despite having no real experience or suitability for the job, in my view simply because the remain establishment thought it would be a shoo-in and a stepping stone on little Will's career.
Why is freedom of movement a good thing? If they can't give a proper answer, they don't get anywhere near the campaign.
The RSS do put these things online, so if you search their YouTube channel you can see their encounter.
Jesus H. Corbett.
Perverting the course of justice is just too serious a crime for any other choice to be acceptable.
She will also face the wrath of her professional body - you can't be a solicitor with a conviction like that.
For the sake of a £60 fine and a speed awareness course, she has wrecked her career.
No doubt some pressure group will find her a job - but she has ruined her legal and political career.
But still the person who bears the most responsibility for losing the ref is Clegg.
Or the total loss of sovereivnty negotiated by Mrs May
Because tbose are your options
Says it all really. Bad times.
https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase#amp
A minor 4th party has-been?
If anyone let him have any responsibilty they deserve the result.
And that genius fantasy football site offering a huge prize for predicting the Euro 2016 results, which thousands entered giving canvass data for zero work to Vote Leave. They may have been a shambles on the ground, but devastatingly effective where it mattered.
Agree with kyf_100 comments on the campaign leaders. Stuart Rose and Will Straw a disastrous choice to head Remain - my pick would have been Jeremy Clarkson.
Essentially I think his argument is this.
1. 400 or so MPs believe the two Brexit options on the table - May's deal or No deal, are deeply damaging the country.
2. If they believe this, then it is their duty to act to avert these outcomes via the only other alternative - remain.
3. To get to that outcome they will have to persuade and negotiate with the electorate to change their minds, a change of mind that would have to be given democratic legitimacy.
4. This is likely a referendum, as it's the only method available given the timescale and the Labour leadership's ill-concealed desire for Brexit as a means to an ersatz Bennite future.
Get a grip
Oh wait
Practically Shami level of shamelessness
Shami got her elevation for producing a whitewash - and for generally sucking up to Corbyn and doing what he wanted.
Redwood sure as hell hasn't been doing that.
Perhaps it was for services to the Welsh National Anthem
1. Huhne plead guilty, albeit very late in the day
2. She is a solicitor
Huhne was sentenced to eight months in prison. I would therefore expect her to be right around the year level.
Youngest player (from any country) to score 6,000, 7,000, 8,000, 9,000, 10,000, 11,000 and 12,000 runs in Test cricket.
Second opener (after Indian opener Sunil Gavaskar) to reach over 10,000 Test runs, first opener to reach over 11,000 and 12,000 Test runs.
and for the simple reason that in 2010/2011 he stood at the crease in Australia and stroked the Aussies all around their grounds.
But her post-conviction posturing will not go in her favour. A bit of humility might have helped.