I assume she isn't going to, but not sure if that's a safe assumption.
It's the same offence as Chris Huhne, but with two aggravating factors:
1. Huhne plead guilty, albeit very late in the day 2. She is a solicitor
Huhne was sentenced to eight months in prison. I would therefore expect her to be right around the year level.
Plus she tried to pin the blame on her brother, claimed she was too incompetent/ill/stupid to understand the simple process of telling the truth on the form and now seems to believe she is like Jesus.
Lack of remorse is an additional aggravating factor.
I think she genuinely believes she didn't do anything wrong - so why should she show any remorse? The court clearly thought otherwise.
But her post-conviction posturing will not go in her favour. A bit of humility might have helped.
If she genuinely believes that she didn't do anything wrong, and we accept that she's an intelligent woman, then that says a great deal about her sense of ethics and concept of right and wrong. The evidence is damning.
I can't disagree with that at all. She is a stain on public life and the sooner she is out of it, the better.
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
You whink, but not like this. My God.
"Sorry! Democracy's cancelled. Fresh out of democracy I'm afraid, would you like anything else?" We are British. We are better than that.
+1 right back at you.
I
As
To cancel out one mandate you need a new one - and that's how our democracy has always worked. If you think Brexit is likely to be awful for the country, you have to argue for another referendum. Parris may preen himself infuriatingly while doing so, but I don't think he's arguing for an anti-democratic reversal - even if it would be helpful to remain if he stayed away from TV studios.
Respectfully, I disagree
Here I think Parris is, like the weasel he is, arguing for Revoke while giving the appearance of maybe, just maybe, asking for a 2nd referendum
"Our present impasse offers unusual scope for negotiation with the electorate. We did instruct government to negotiate Brexit but there’s no reason why, nearly three years later, we can’t be asked to judge the result. Are so few MPs ready to square up to their voters and use the language of second-thoughts?"
Either way, the fact he can't even be honest and say what he really wants does him even further discredit. In the world of journalism I'm not sure anyone has been as tarnished by Brexit as Matthew Parris. And I used to consider myself a sincere admirer.
I can maybe respect an honest 2nd referendumer, tho think them far too blase and complacent about the damage it will do to our democracy. Parris flirts with a form of outright autocracy. The kindest explanation is that he is a bit over the hill.
What I find so deeply hypocritical is die-hard remainers who never got over losing the first referendum using language like "second-thoughts". They've not had a second-thought since the first referendum, they're fighting the same fight for the same reasons for the same original thoughts.
There may be some merit in that. But don't claim its a second thought.
I assume she isn't going to, but not sure if that's a safe assumption.
It's the same offence as Chris Huhne, but with two aggravating factors:
1. Huhne plead guilty, albeit very late in the day 2. She is a solicitor
Huhne was sentenced to eight months in prison. I would therefore expect her to be right around the year level.
Plus she tried to pin the blame on her brother, claimed she was too incompetent/ill/stupid to understand the simple process of telling the truth on the form and now seems to believe she is like Jesus.
Lack of remorse is an additional aggravating factor.
I think she genuinely believes she didn't do anything wrong - so why should she show any remorse? The court clearly thought otherwise.
But her post-conviction posturing will not go in her favour. A bit of humility might have helped.
If she genuinely believes that she didn't do anything wrong, and we accept that she's an intelligent woman, then that says a great deal about her sense of ethics and concept of right and wrong. The evidence is damning.
She combines, like all too many in public life, both stupidity and a huge sense of entitlement. In the eyes of such people, morality is for others not for them - hence her absurd and offensive claims to be both a victim and to be fighting for justice.
The truth is she is a not very bright over-promoted lying fraudster.
People who speed risk others’ lives. Those who lie to avoid the penalties for speeding, which include a ban on driving if enough points are incurred, are not just avoiding a fine and the inconvenience to them of a possible ban but are utterly careless of the risk they pose to the safety of others.
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
Parris seems desperate in this piece... And dare I say a tad panic-stricken.
I don't want to be mean but does anyone know why Alastair Cook has been given a knighthood? His record was good but hardly world beating.
Youngest Englishman to score 2,000, 3,000, 4,000, 5,000 and 6,000 Test runs. Youngest player (from any country) to score 6,000, 7,000, 8,000, 9,000, 10,000, 11,000 and 12,000 runs in Test cricket. Second opener (after Indian opener Sunil Gavaskar) to reach over 10,000 Test runs, first opener to reach over 11,000 and 12,000 Test runs.
and for the simple reason that in 2010/2011 he stood at the crease in Australia and stroked the Aussies all around their grounds.
And highest left handed run scorer in test cricket and 5th overall.
One of the more explicable knighthoods I would have thought.
It's the kindest thing to do for a dumb animal that's suffering.
Good to hear Farage discomfited but mathematically surely the caller was wrong! You cannot have more than a 100% shortfall? She suggested 300%.
Yes. Presumably she meant that we'd need a 300% increase, which can't be facilitated. (As an aside, this isn't a 'fact' as she claims' it's an assertion which may or may not be true based on conditions we don't even know yet).
So, why is Twiggy being made a Dame? I’m sure she’s perfectly nice but other than some M&S ads and being a model decades ago, what is the Damehood for, exactly?
I can maybe respect an honest 2nd referendumer, tho think them far too blase and complacent about the damage it will do to our democracy. Parris flirts with a form of outright autocracy. The kindest explanation is that he is a bit over the hill.
What I don't get is that, one referendum has ruined the UK's reputation, wasted three years of everyone's lives, and triggered an absolutely unprecedented constitutional crisis as Parliament tries to deal with trying to resile from delivering something that both occam's razor and expert evidence suggest will be a total, unmitigated catastrophe.
THAT being the case, the solution is not ANOTHER DAMNED REFERENDUM, which would just make things worse.
The solution is simply to be honest, say Brexit was a stupid idea that could never have worked, even if May hadn't fucked it up so totally, and so we're cancelling it; and while we're on the subject we're never having another referendum on anything important ever again because by this point it's pretty obvious the great unhosed of these isles are just too damned silly to be entrusted with important decisions.
I don't want to be mean but does anyone know why Alastair Cook has been given a knighthood? His record was good but hardly world beating.
Youngest Englishman to score 2,000, 3,000, 4,000, 5,000 and 6,000 Test runs. Youngest player (from any country) to score 6,000, 7,000, 8,000, 9,000, 10,000, 11,000 and 12,000 runs in Test cricket. Second opener (after Indian opener Sunil Gavaskar) to reach over 10,000 Test runs, first opener to reach over 11,000 and 12,000 Test runs.
and for the simple reason that in 2010/2011 he stood at the crease in Australia and stroked the Aussies all around their grounds.
And highest left handed run scorer in test cricket and 5th overall.
One of the more explicable knighthoods I would have thought.
Most of which are just because he played a lot of tests. There are 309 players who have scored at least 2000 runs. Of those, Cook has the 79th-best average. Good, but nothing exceptional.
Most of which are just because he played a lot of tests. There are 309 players who have scored at least 2000 runs. Of those, Cook has the 79th-best average. Good, but nothing exceptional.
Competent and unexceptional but dedicated and loyal builds empires.
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
Parris seems desperate in this piece... And dare I say a tad panic-stricken.
I’m so enjoying the ever more desperate behaviour from people who would have genuinely considered themselves to be democrats, yet advocating something to prevent the proles having their way. It’s like watching a child do a tantrum, when it’s told for the first time it can’t have the sweeties at the checkout.
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
You would literally revoke? So the British people would thereafter know that they live in a kind of dystopic pretendy democracy, where any vote can be simply overruled by the MPs and the Establishment, if they don't like it. Turning us, in a trice, into a kind of fake "people's democracy" like the old East Germany, or Ceaucescu's Romania. And thereby ending 1000 years of slowly developing suffrage.
Who and why would anyone ever vote for anything ever again? What would be the point, knowing that MPs could simply say MEH and overrule you, and ignore all the results?
Might as well abandon elections. The nation that first invented parliamentary democracy would be the nation that first ended it.
Take a good, long look at yourself, and at what you are proposing, and what you have become. I shan't say any more for fear of losing my temper.
And I am a nervous Leaver who could be persuaded to a rethink, but not like this. My God.
Enjoy your drive over brexit cliff
Or the total loss of sovereivnty negotiated by Mrs May
Because tbose are your options
Nothing in between, nothing at all?..........
Get a grip
No. Nothing in between. WTO, May's deal or Remain. That is the reality of where we are
Most of which are just because he played a lot of tests. There are 309 players who have scored at least 2000 runs. Of those, Cook has the 79th-best average. Good, but nothing exceptional.
Competent and unexceptional but dedicated and loyal builds empires.
Not by itself it doesn't. His CBE was already excessive; a knighthood already is daft.
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
You whink, but not like this. My God.
"Sorry! Democracy's cancelled. Fresh out of democracy I'm afraid, would you like anything else?" We are British. We are better than that.
+1 right back at you.
I
As
To cancel out one mandate you need a new one - and that's how our democracy has always worked. If you think Brexit is likely to be awful for the country, you have to argue for another referendum. Parris may preen himself infuriatingly while doing so, but I don't think he's arguing for an anti-democratic reversal - even if it would be helpful to remain if he stayed away from TV studios.
Respectfully, I disagree
Here I think Parris is, like themaybe, askingment to negotiate Brexit but there’s no reason why, nearly three years later, we can’t be asked to judge the result. Are so few MPs ready to square up to their voters and use the language of second-thoughts?"
Either way, the fact he can't even be honest and say what he really wants does him even further discredit. In the world of journalism I'm not sure anyone has been as tarnished by Brexit as Matthew Parris. And I used to consider myself a sincere admirer.
I can maybe respect an honest 2nd referendumer, tho think them far too blase and complacent about the damage it will do to our democracy. Parris flirts with a form of outright autocracy. The kindest explanation is that he is a bit over the hill.
What I find so deeply hypocritical is die-hard remainers who never got over losing the first referendum using language like "second-thoughts". They've not had a second-thought since the first referendum, they're fighting the same fight for the same reasons for the same original thoughts.
There may be some merit in that. But don't claim its a second thought.
And that somehow now that we have some more facts we all need to have another go, not that any change of facts would have moved them away from voting remain. If only the little people knew what was goodf for them they would change their minds.
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
Parris seems desperate in this piece... And dare I say a tad panic-stricken.
I’m so enjoying the ever more desperate behaviour from people who would have genuinely considered themselves to be democrats, yet advocating something to prevent the proles having their way. It’s like watching a child do a tantrum, when it’s told for the first time it can’t have the sweeties at the checkout.
The idea that Brexit is the will of the proles is the most self-serving elitist argument around.
I can maybe respect an honest 2nd referendumer, tho think them far too blase and complacent about the damage it will do to our democracy. Parris flirts with a form of outright autocracy. The kindest explanation is that he is a bit over the hill.
What I don't get is that, one referendum has ruined the UK's reputation, wasted three years of everyone's lives, and triggered an absolutely unprecedented constitutional crisis as Parliament tries to deal with trying to resile from delivering something that both occam's razor and expert evidence suggest will be a total, unmitigated catastrophe.
THAT being the case, the solution is not ANOTHER DAMNED REFERENDUM, which would just make things worse.
The solution is simply to be honest, say Brexit was a stupid idea that could never have worked, even if May hadn't fucked it up so totally, and so we're cancelling it; and while we're on the subject we're never having another referendum on anything important ever again because by this point it's pretty obvious the great unhosed of these isles are just too damned silly to be entrusted with important decisions.
Thing is, Leavers think the deal is crap, as though there was some alternative outcome that would deliver the unicorns and avoid the crushing contradictions of Brexit.
The deal is crap because Brexit is crap. Politicians aren't prepared to confront voters with this truth although they mostly know it to be so
I’m so enjoying the ever more desperate behaviour from people who would have genuinely considered themselves to be democrats, yet advocating something to prevent the proles having their way. It’s like watching a child do a tantrum, when it’s told for the first time it can’t have the sweeties at the checkout.
I don't really understand it. The referendum was a mistake. The leave campaign cheated. The campaign was based on lies and racism. The withdrawal agreement is terrible. No Deal would be a disaster.
This needn't be about high fallutin' principles about whether Parliament or some advisory opinion poll taken three years ago on the back of mass criminality and deceit is sovereign, even though the answer is obviously Parliament.
At this point, self-preservation is kicking in; principle be damned, we're just trying to stop the leavers fucking things up any more royally than they already have.
Parris doesn't just want a rematch, or a delay, he thinks the MPs should simply revoke Brexit, and overrule the biggest vote in British history. Cancel democracy. And he calls this "sensible." It is not sensible. this is insane. He is insane.
Parris seems desperate in this piece... And dare I say a tad panic-stricken.
I’m so enjoying the ever more desperate behaviour from people who would have genuinely considered themselves to be democrats, yet advocating something to prevent the proles having their way. It’s like watching a child do a tantrum, when it’s told for the first time it can’t have the sweeties at the checkout.
The idea that Brexit is the will of the proles is the most self-serving elitist argument around.
The Brexit process itself is grim. Watching Parris, Addonis et al is the only real pleasure out of the whole thing. Would quite happily cancel it on the condition we never tell them, and they continue to stay very angry all the time.
I’m so enjoying the ever more desperate behaviour from people who would have genuinely considered themselves to be democrats, yet advocating something to prevent the proles having their way. It’s like watching a child do a tantrum, when it’s told for the first time it can’t have the sweeties at the checkout.
I don't really understand it. The referendum was a mistake. The leave campaign cheated. The campaign was based on lies and racism. The withdrawal agreement is terrible. No Deal would be a disaster.
This needn't be about high fallutin' principles about whether Parliament or some advisory opinion poll taken three years ago on the back of mass criminality and deceit is sovereign, even though the answer is obviously Parliament.
At this point, self-preservation is kicking in; principle be damned, we're just trying to stop the leavers fucking things up any more royally than they already have.
Tough. It ain’t happening. If you put the effort into trying to get the best deal possible, which maintained a close relationship that might be something that could have happened, but that’s not been the case. At every stage the purpose has been to frustrate, delay, egg on the commission to screw hard, and here we are.
People like Clegg could have been an invaluable conduit between the Eu and the uk gvt, explaining to each what would be a good outcome for each, helping to avoid the misunderstandings and come away from a mutually agreeable position in which both sides get some of what they want.
What we have now is a feeling that the EU has well and truly skinned us. We will never go back once we leave. Even a close relationship is now pretty unlikely.
The choice was salt the earth or work together, the remainers took the former.
What we have now is a feeling that the EU has well and truly skinned us. We will never go back once we leave. Even a close relationship is now pretty unlikely.
That depends how you define "we". UKIP politicians are already calling for the break up of the UK.
Tough. It ain’t happening. If you put the effort into trying to get the best deal possible, which maintained a close relationship that might be something that could have happened, but that’s not been the case. At every stage the purpose has been to frustrate, delay, egg on the commission to screw hard, and here we are.
We're not leaving the EU. I realise there are some remainers who still believe there's a magic unicorn that will make leavers quietly forget their enormous, epoch-defining fuckup and go back to doing hate crimes against Muslims or something.
But it ain't happening. As we're not leaving the EU, the leavers are going to be betrayed, humilated, hunted and blamed for the disaster.
Trying to pretend that's not going to happen is malicious. Of *course* there will be repercussions for the people that wrought this disaster. There's going to be a heavy price to pay for the great national apocalypse that was Brexit.
So, why is Twiggy being made a Dame? I’m sure she’s perfectly nice but other than some M&S ads and being a model decades ago, what is the Damehood for, exactly?
It's the kindest thing to do for a dumb animal that's suffering.
Good to hear Farage discomfited but mathematically surely the caller was wrong! You cannot have more than a 100% shortfall? She suggested 300%.
Yes. Presumably she meant that we'd need a 300% increase, which can't be facilitated. (As an aside, this isn't a 'fact' as she claims' it's an assertion which may or may not be true based on conditions we don't even know yet).
Supply of vets is an issue for the industry
We used to manage very well with a lot of South African vets but, in recent years, have become more dependent on EU candidates. It’s an expensive degree (2 degrees required) with low pay hence a real vocation needed
I can maybe respect an honest 2nd referendumer, tho think them far too blase and complacent about the damage it will do to our democracy. Parris flirts with a form of outright autocracy. The kindest explanation is that he is a bit over the hill.
What I don't get is that, one referendum has ruined the UK's reputation, wasted three years of everyone's lives, and triggered an absolutely unprecedented constitutional crisis as Parliament tries to deal with trying to resile from delivering something that both occam's razor and expert evidence suggest will be a total, unmitigated catastrophe.
THAT being the case, the solution is not ANOTHER DAMNED REFERENDUM, which would just make things worse.
The solution is simply to be honest, say Brexit was a stupid idea that could never have worked, even if May hadn't fucked it up so totally, and so we're cancelling it; and while we're on the subject we're never having another referendum on anything important ever again because by this point it's pretty obvious the great unhosed of these isles are just too damned silly to be entrusted with important decisions.
Thing is, Leavers think the deal is crap, as though there was some alternative outcome that would deliver the unicorns and avoid the crushing contradictions of Brexit.
The deal is crap because Brexit is crap. Politicians aren't prepared to confront voters with this truth although they mostly know it to be so
The deal is crap because politicians exceeded their authority and enraged us deeply in the EU.
The economic benefits will unwind while political balance is restored
He is not insane. He is correct. We are almost out of time and hard choices need to be made
You would literally e persuaded to a rethink, but not like this. My God.
Then I realise just how much these people hate freedom. How much they hate the proles. How much they despise the fact the little people for once, stood up and said no. And the colossal two a that.
Whereas the Remain campaign was a humble and modest proletarian affir, only supported by all four major parties, the entire government, the prime minister, the Bank of England, the civil service, Channel 4, the Times, most big business, politicians around the world, the CBI, the .
It wasn't small but it was incompetent. Both in messaging but also in practicalities. Leave rang me months before (a Councillor ring round) to canvass me, remain never did. Remain wrote target mail to my wife not me - she's an EU citizen so couldn't vote, when I could. I have a mate with a postal vote who was rung up by remain a couple of days before and asked if he knew where his polling station was. Our council campaigns would never make these basic mistakes - but remain did. Idiots.
My experience of the Leave campaign on the ground was it was poorly organised, but it may have been different elsewhere.
That matches with anecdotes I heard locally. But centrally Vote Leave was inspired. Waiting to the purdah period before putting all their key messages on immigration into play and their (admittedly unlawful) spend on ads when the government could no longer respond.
And .
Agree with kyf_100 comments on the campaign leaders. Stuart Rose and Will Straw a disastrous choice to head Remain - my pick would have been Jeremy Clarkson.
The central messaging was indeed effective, and as weak as the Leave ground game was, outside of London and bigger cities Remain seemed to barely register. In my large town we had a VL stall every weekend for 6 weeks, IIRC, and in that same time I saw one solitary ‘Labour In’ chap standing around failing to get anyone to take his leaflets.
It did appear the Remain campaign didn’t understand it was a national election, not a FPTP one. Making the effort to lose an area 80-20 instead of 90-10 is still useful when every vote counts.
Comments
There may be some merit in that. But don't claim its a second thought.
The truth is she is a not very bright over-promoted lying fraudster.
People who speed risk others’ lives. Those who lie to avoid the penalties for speeding, which include a ban on driving if enough points are incurred, are not just avoiding a fine and the inconvenience to them of a possible ban but are utterly careless of the risk they pose to the safety of others.
One of the more explicable knighthoods I would have thought.
THAT being the case, the solution is not ANOTHER DAMNED REFERENDUM, which would just make things worse.
The solution is simply to be honest, say Brexit was a stupid idea that could never have worked, even if May hadn't fucked it up so totally, and so we're cancelling it; and while we're on the subject we're never having another referendum on anything important ever again because by this point it's pretty obvious the great unhosed of these isles are just too damned silly to be entrusted with important decisions.
Are you absolutely sure that we are heading for a car crash?
/plenty of people disagree
The deal is crap because Brexit is crap. Politicians aren't prepared to confront voters with this truth although they mostly know it to be so
I don't really understand it. The referendum was a mistake. The leave campaign cheated. The campaign was based on lies and racism. The withdrawal agreement is terrible. No Deal would be a disaster.
This needn't be about high fallutin' principles about whether Parliament or some advisory opinion poll taken three years ago on the back of mass criminality and deceit is sovereign, even though the answer is obviously Parliament.
At this point, self-preservation is kicking in; principle be damned, we're just trying to stop the leavers fucking things up any more royally than they already have.
People like Clegg could have been an invaluable conduit between the Eu and the uk gvt, explaining to each what would be a good outcome for each, helping to avoid the misunderstandings and come away from a mutually agreeable position in which both sides get some of what they want.
What we have now is a feeling that the EU has well and truly skinned us. We will never go back once we leave. Even a close relationship is now pretty unlikely.
The choice was salt the earth or work together, the remainers took the former.
Everything that happens over the next few months is about nothing more than minimising the number of necessary deaths by men and cargo swept away.
We'll have plenty of time to witch-hunt leavers and their weather-witches that called the storm down upon us once disaster has been averted.
But it ain't happening. As we're not leaving the EU, the leavers are going to be betrayed, humilated, hunted and blamed for the disaster.
Trying to pretend that's not going to happen is malicious. Of *course* there will be repercussions for the people that wrought this disaster. There's going to be a heavy price to pay for the great national apocalypse that was Brexit.
I really hope leavers have been keeping receipts.
Richard Nabavi will be the witchfinder general.
We used to manage very well with a lot of South African vets but, in recent years, have become more dependent on EU candidates. It’s an expensive degree (2 degrees required) with low pay hence a real vocation needed
The economic benefits will unwind while political balance is restored