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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PB 2018 betting review – Next CON leader

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  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,042

    Away from Brexit, going drinking today in the wealthy Northumberland town of Ponteland where Newcastle’s well-to-do reside. The borders conveniently drawn so that they don’t have to pay council tax to the great unwashed in the city.

    A special shout out to all the PBers who don't know how to pronounce Ponteland.

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,042

    Whoops...

    Vegans banned by Lewes pub during hunt

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-46695991

    Lewes does seem to be a place with more than its fair share of twats.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    After the Tories have revoked A50 and told us it was all a big mistake, they should proclaim we are still going to change our passports back to blue - since we can.

    I would be happy with that concession to the dwindling band of Leave supporters.

    "In Victory: Magnanimity" I say.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    Whoops...

    Vegans banned by Lewes pub during hunt

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-46695991

    Lewes does seem to be a place with more than its fair share of twats.
    Good job they have a sensible MP then - oh...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Next Con leader? Gove for me. His not resigning was crucial and I sense there will be a reward once Brexit is delivered. I think May will appoint him Chancellor with strategic oversight of the FTA talks, leaving her to concentrate on other matters such as stopping people coming here. They will almost be twin PMs. Given such a platform I believe that MG’s undoubted ability will run riot and by 2021 when TM steps down he will be a slam dunk to replace her. He will be odds on by then, not the 12/1 shot that he is now. Fill your boots.

    Looking further ahead, I find it interesting that Gove has a son. Now I don’t know the boy, therefore this is pure unbridled speculation, but I would wager that he is just as bright as his dad and has a keen interest in politics and, in particular, the Conservative Party. Political dynasties are not something that we in this country are comfortable with, but one can imagine (if one tries extremely hard) how that might change under these circumstances. Not a betting proposition, I hasten to add, more of a glimpse into a possible future.

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.
    Perhaps he could be moved back to education? Unfinished business.
    And totally get rid of the teachers' Tory vote
    I think he's already managed that.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited December 2018
    I'm too upset to post on this thread (per E Thornberry)....

    what with our Tracey not mentioned in the header and all that.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239

    ydoethur said:

    Strikingly, there appears to be no original policy thinking in the broader swathes of the Tory party: not on the backbenches, not in the thinktanks.

    All is consumed by the “creation science” of Brexitism, trying to prove the the co-existence of Adam and Dinosaurs etc. None of this is going to make the country fit for the 2020s, let alone the Tory party.

    Which makes it all the more depressing that insofar as Labour have any policy other than 'the Tories are evil, vote for us because as supporters of mass murderers we're much nicer,' they veer from the unworkable to the unoriginal to the actively dishonest.

    While I obviously don't agree with your characterisation of Labour, I'd be interested to know - as a sample of all those who think little of either major party at the moment - why you aren't enthusiastically backing the LibDems. I am not a fan - they seem preoccupied with Brexit too, to an unhealthy degree, and I've not forgiven them for the coalition
    That reasoning alternately fascinates and puzzles me.

    For a centre-left voter like me (broadly Lib Dem / Co-operative / Green), the coalition was anathema. Like many others, I left the Lib Dems over the policies that Clegg and Alexander were gleefully introducing or at the least enabling. (For me, Gove's gutting of the education system made me sick, and Alexander's boast of "the largest programme of investment in our roads for half a century", the direct opposite of the Lib Dem manifesto, was the last straw.)

    But that was then. It was only, in the grand scheme of things, a few years after Labour supported the invasion of Iraq. Or introduced academies. Or voted to introduce ID cards. Or (contd. p94). If you won't forgive the Lib Dems for the coalition, why should anyone ever forgive Labour for those?

    I'm starting to think that the Lib Dems should enter a formal electoral pact with the Greens at the next election - not so much for the electoral gain, though that clearly worked in Oxford West & Abingdon and might help elsewhere - but to detoxify the Lib Dems in the eyes of the progressive left.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,257
    ydoethur said:

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.

    Am I in the presence of that rarest of birds, a conservative voting teacher?
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239

    If the Lib Dem’s want some attention they need to dump Cable, renounce the university fees disaster (the logic of which is unravelling anyway), and find some eyecatching ideas that are liberal and address the inequalities that have sprung up over the past 25 yrs. Things like:


    Legalisation of marijuana
    Abolition of hospital carparking fees
    Proper taxation of Google, Facebook, Amazon etc and offshore financial centres.
    Business rate abolition.
    Etc

    The only thing I’ve seen Layla Moran talk about is identity politics, which is not a platform for regaining relevance. However she at least looks like the future and seems feistier than Swinson. It also too late for Lamb. So Moran it is.

    Swinson is a lot more "identity politics" than Moran tbh. Nominally Swinson is spokesperson on foreign affairs but you'd be hard-pushed to tell - her recent book was "Equal Power: And How You Can Make It Happen", for example. I think Moran has a much greater chance of cutting through to the average voter than Swinson does, but frankly they'd both be beacons of light compared to Low-Voltage Cable.

    (But please no to abolishing hospital car-parking fees. It's a subsidy to drivers and therefore a tax on the poor. It's exactly the sort of glib regressive populism that Corbyn likes but not something the Lib Dems should go anywhere near. Provide free buses to hospitals if you really want to make a difference.)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Next Con leader? Gove for me. His not resigning was crucial and I sense there will be a reward once Brexit is delivered. I think May will appoint him Chancellor with strategic oversight of the FTA talks, leaving her to concentrate on other matters such as stopping people coming here. They will almost be twin PMs. Given such a platform I believe that MG’s undoubted ability will run riot and by 2021 when TM steps down he will be a slam dunk to replace her. He will be odds on by then, not the 12/1 shot that he is now. Fill your boots.

    Looking further ahead, I find it interesting that Gove has a son. Now I don’t know the boy, therefore this is pure unbridled speculation, but I would wager that he is just as bright as his dad and has a keen interest in politics and, in particular, the Conservative Party. Political dynasties are not something that we in this country are comfortable with, but one can imagine (if one tries extremely hard) how that might change under these circumstances. Not a betting proposition, I hasten to add, more of a glimpse into a possible future.

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.
    Perhaps he could be moved back to education? Unfinished business.
    You mean one truly epic clusterfuck with exam reform wasn't quite enough?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    ydoethur said:

    Strikingly, there appears to be no original policy thinking in the broader swathes of the Tory party: not on the backbenches, not in the thinktanks.

    All is consumed by the “creation science” of Brexitism, trying to prove the the co-existence of Adam and Dinosaurs etc. None of this is going to make the country fit for the 2020s, let alone the Tory party.

    Which makes it all the more depressing that insofar as Labour have any policy other than 'the Tories are evil, vote for us because as supporters of mass murderers we're much nicer,' they veer from the unworkable to the unoriginal to the actively dishonest.

    While I obviously don't agree with your characterisation of Labour, I'd be interested to know - as a sample of all those who think little of either major party at the moment - why you aren't enthusiastically backing the LibDems. I am not a fan - they seem preoccupied with Brexit too, to an unhealthy degree, and I've not forgiven them for the coalition
    That reasoning alternately fascinates and puzzles me.

    For a centre-left voter like me (broadly Lib Dem / Co-operative / Green), the coalition was anathema. Like many others, I left the Lib Dems over the policies that Clegg and Alexander were gleefully introducing or at the least enabling. (For me, Gove's gutting of the education system made me sick, and Alexander's boast of "the largest programme of investment in our roads for half a century", the direct opposite of the Lib Dem manifesto, was the last straw.)

    But that was then. It was only, in the grand scheme of things, a few years after Labour supported the invasion of Iraq. Or introduced academies. Or voted to introduce ID cards. Or (contd. p94). If you won't forgive the Lib Dems for the coalition, why should anyone ever forgive Labour for those?

    I'm starting to think that the Lib Dems should enter a formal electoral pact with the Greens at the next election - not so much for the electoral gain, though that clearly worked in Oxford West & Abingdon and might help elsewhere - but to detoxify the Lib Dems in the eyes of the progressive left.
    An interesting idea, certainly, and while that might make them less appealing to some I do think you hit the point very clearly about the illogic of some of the 'forgiveness' talk around the LD time in coalition. It seems to me to place an additional barrier people don't put on the big two. That you were not a fan of the coalition I think makes your point stronger as well.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Foxy said:

    If the Lib Dem’s want some attention they need to dump Cable, renounce the university fees disaster (the logic of which is unravelling anyway), and find some eyecatching ideas that are liberal and address the inequalities that have sprung up over the past 25 yrs. Things like:


    Legalisation of marijuana
    Abolition of hospital carparking fees
    Proper taxation of Google, Facebook, Amazon etc and offshore financial centres.
    Business rate abolition.
    Etc

    The only thing I’ve seen Layla Moran talk about is identity politics, which is not a platform for regaining relevance. However she at least looks like the future and seems feistier than Swinson. It also too late for Lamb. So Moran it is.

    The problem of free hospital car parking is that is abused by commuters. Even without these queues and patients being tardy for appointments as a result of not being able to get a space was a nightmare at my hospital, until the CEO spent a couple of million quid on a new multistorey carpark. He braced himself for abuse along the lines of "how could you when people are dying of X?" but ithas been his most popular legacy. The queue has gone and feedback very positive, despite the charges.
    My 82 year old mum is currently at the General about to have her shattered hip repaired after a seemingly minor fall on Boxing Day. I'll get a second mortgage for the car parking fees!
    On a semi related note, I've just spent 4 quid- 4 fecking quid! for 30 seconds to drop my lad off at Gatwick this morning!
    You mean you handed over 4 quid to an effective natural monopoly which is now controlled by a French company.
    DOH Go and park at the smaller Premier Inn for a few secs whilst he gets out.. They will soon bee steering you to car parks where you cannot avoid payment so you cannot do this but do it whilst you can
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742

    Foxy said:

    If the Lib Dem’s want some attention they need to dump Cable, renounce the university fees disaster (the logic of which is unravelling anyway), and find some eyecatching ideas that are liberal and address the inequalities that have sprung up over the past 25 yrs. Things like:


    Legalisation of marijuana
    Abolition of hospital carparking fees
    Proper taxation of Google, Facebook, Amazon etc and offshore financial centres.
    Business rate abolition.
    Etc

    The only thing I’ve seen Layla Moran talk about is identity politics, which is not a platform for regaining relevance. However she at least looks like the future and seems feistier than Swinson. It also too late for Lamb. So Moran it is.

    The problem of free hospital car parking is that is abused by commuters. Even without these queues and patients being tardy for appointments as a result of not being able to get a space was a nightmare at my hospital, until the CEO spent a couple of million quid on a new multistorey carpark. He braced himself for abuse along the lines of "how could you when people are dying of X?" but ithas been his most popular legacy. The queue has gone and feedback very positive, despite the charges.
    My 82 year old mum is currently at the General about to have her shattered hip repaired after a seemingly minor fall on Boxing Day. I'll get a second mortgage for the car parking fees!
    On a semi related note, I've just spent 4 quid- 4 fecking quid! for 30 seconds to drop my lad off at Gatwick this morning!
    Best wishes for your mum, sounds nasty. The LGH has always had more spaces and fewer commuters than the LRI, so could be cheaper.

    Early mobilisation and plenty of physio asap after the op is the key,
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.

    Am I in the presence of that rarest of birds, a conservative voting teacher?
    There were plenty of teachers who saw through Corbyn's lies in his last manifesto.

    There just wouldn't be any who would actually care if Gove were transferred back to education or even worse, to No. 10.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    If the Lib Dem’s want some attention they need to dump Cable, renounce the university fees disaster (the logic of which is unravelling anyway), and find some eyecatching ideas that are liberal and address the inequalities that have sprung up over the past 25 yrs. Things like:


    Legalisation of marijuana
    Abolition of hospital carparking fees
    Proper taxation of Google, Facebook, Amazon etc and offshore financial centres.
    Business rate abolition.
    Etc

    The only thing I’ve seen Layla Moran talk about is identity politics, which is not a platform for regaining relevance. However she at least looks like the future and seems feistier than Swinson. It also too late for Lamb. So Moran it is.

    The problem of free hospital car parking is that is abused by commuters. Even without these queues and patients being tardy for appointments as a result of not being able to get a space was a nightmare at my hospital, until the CEO spent a couple of million quid on a new multistorey carpark. He braced himself for abuse along the lines of "how could you when people are dying of X?" but ithas been his most popular legacy. The queue has gone and feedback very positive, despite the charges.
    My 82 year old mum is currently at the General about to have her shattered hip repaired after a seemingly minor fall on Boxing Day. I'll get a second mortgage for the car parking fees!
    On a semi related note, I've just spent 4 quid- 4 fecking quid! for 30 seconds to drop my lad off at Gatwick this morning!
    Best wishes for your mum, sounds nasty. The LGH has always had more spaces and fewer commuters than the LRI, so could be cheaper.

    Early mobilisation and plenty of physio asap after the op is the key,
    Seconded.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Next Con leader? Gove for me. His not resigning was crucial and I sense there will be a reward once Brexit is delivered. I think May will appoint him Chancellor with strategic oversight of the FTA talks, leaving her to concentrate on other matters such as stopping people coming here. They will almost be twin PMs. Given such a platform I believe that MG’s undoubted ability will run riot and by 2021 when TM steps down he will be a slam dunk to replace her. He will be odds on by then, not the 12/1 shot that he is now. Fill your boots.

    Looking further ahead, I find it interesting that Gove has a son. Now I don’t know the boy, therefore this is pure unbridled speculation, but I would wager that he is just as bright as his dad and has a keen interest in politics and, in particular, the Conservative Party. Political dynasties are not something that we in this country are comfortable with, but one can imagine (if one tries extremely hard) how that might change under these circumstances. Not a betting proposition, I hasten to add, more of a glimpse into a possible future.

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.
    Perhaps he could be moved back to education? Unfinished business.
    You mean one truly epic clusterfuck with exam reform wasn't quite enough?
    I was really just trying to determine where your line was re Tory support. Gove as leader crosses it, but how about your preferred leader, whoever that is, but Gove at education or chancellor say, woukd that cancel out the leader?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited December 2018
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Next Con leader? Gove for me. His not resigning was crucial and I sense there will be a reward once Brexit is delivered. I think May will appoint him Chancellor with strategic oversight of the FTA talks, leaving her to concentrate on other matters such as stopping people coming here. They will almost be twin PMs. Given such a platform I believe that MG’s undoubted ability will run riot and by 2021 when TM steps down he will be a slam dunk to replace her. He will be odds on by then, not the 12/1 shot that he is now. Fill your boots.

    Looking further ahead, I find it interesting that Gove has a son. Now I don’t know the boy, therefore this is pure unbridled speculation, but I would wager that he is just as bright as his dad and has a keen interest in politics and, in particular, the Conservative Party. Political dynasties are not something that we in this country are comfortable with, but one can imagine (if one tries extremely hard) how that might change under these circumstances. Not a betting proposition, I hasten to add, more of a glimpse into a possible future.

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.
    Perhaps he could be moved back to education? Unfinished business.
    You mean one truly epic clusterfuck with exam reform wasn't quite enough?
    I was really just trying to determine where your line was re Tory support. Gove as leader crosses it, but how about your preferred leader, whoever that is, but Gove at education or chancellor say, woukd that cancel out the leader?
    Yes.

    To be blunt, I'd be happier to see him, Spielman, Morgan and Wormald (who are the guiltiest in these disasters) kicked out and banned from public service for the future, as Cummings effectively has been.

    But given he is fairly intelligent with all his faults and we're not blessed with a plethora of competent figures in either party, I'll settle for him working somewhere a good long way from education - for now.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Away from Brexit, going drinking today in the wealthy Northumberland town of Ponteland where Newcastle’s well-to-do reside. The borders conveniently drawn so that they don’t have to pay council tax to the great unwashed in the city.

    A special shout out to all the PBers who don't know how to pronounce Ponteland.

    Is the Irish Poundland?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    When Cameron was PM there were three clear and papabile candidates to succeed him: Osborne, May, and Johnson.

    It’s really not clear if there are any decent successors to May.

    So we are left with Hunt and Javid, and whichever it is will lose in 2022 to whoever it is that succeeds Corbyn.

    I didn't think May was a clear candidate. For me she came from now where. A nakedly self serving Referendum campaign by her got her the gig.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Alistair said:

    When Cameron was PM there were three clear and papabile candidates to succeed him: Osborne, May, and Johnson.

    It’s really not clear if there are any decent successors to May.

    So we are left with Hunt and Javid, and whichever it is will lose in 2022 to whoever it is that succeeds Corbyn.

    I didn't think May was a clear candidate. For me she came from now where. A nakedly self serving Referendum campaign by her got her the gig.
    She Remained the last candidate standing.

    I'll get my coat...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,257

    Well a lot of people peddle fantasy on here, but this at least is a pleasant one.

    Except for teachers or Boris Johnson!

    Actually only the 2nd para was flight of fancy. 1st para was straight as a die. I do think May will last to 2021 and I do think that Gove will get a massive promo in 2019 as his reward for sticking with her. Then assuming he performs he's the likely next leader IMO.

    I think he might even have a hold on her. Not blackmail, nothing sordid like that, but I sense that TM is in thrall to his charm and intellect.

    Did you notice, when she was doing that difficult speech to the House after Chequers, that she kept flicking glances over at him, to where he was standing, seeking his approval? And that he was nodding his encouragement, even winking at her at one point?

    I did, and I thought it telling.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,042
    Charles said:

    Away from Brexit, going drinking today in the wealthy Northumberland town of Ponteland where Newcastle’s well-to-do reside. The borders conveniently drawn so that they don’t have to pay council tax to the great unwashed in the city.

    A special shout out to all the PBers who don't know how to pronounce Ponteland.

    Is the Irish Poundland?
    Top marks for originality, but way off the mark.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202
    edited December 2018
    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Strikingly, there appears to be no original policy thinking in the broader swathes of the Tory party: not on the backbenches, not in the thinktanks.

    All is consumed by the “creation science” of Brexitism, trying to prove the the co-existence of Adam and Dinosaurs etc. None of this is going to make the country fit for the 2020s, let alone the Tory party.

    Which makes it all the more depressing that insofar as Labour have any policy other than 'the Tories are evil, vote for us because as supporters of mass murderers we're much nicer,' they veer from the unworkable to the unoriginal to the actively dishonest.

    While I obviously don't agree with your characterisation of Labour, I'd be interested to know - as a sample of all those who think little of either major party at the moment - why you aren't enthusiastically backing the LibDems. I am not a fan - they seem preoccupied with Brexit too, to an unhealthy degree, and I've not forgiven them for the coalition and think they are too ready to shift around the spectrum for political gain - but I'm genuinely puzzled that they're not doing better in the current climate. If millions of people are anti-Tory and anti-Labour and anti-Brexit, why aren't they seen as a natural home?
    A very long standing but very pertinent question. Though I think you meant pro brexit there?

    I think it does show something good, in a way, in that it proves push factors alone are not enough, parties need pull factors. That can be as simple, unfortunately, as 'best placed to beat those I hate' which is why labour and the Tories are holding up, but the LDs just don't have many pull factors.

    Want to be green? Vote Green. Liberal but pro brexit? Lds exist who support it but from their words the party sees that as akin to heresy. Anti Tory? Like Corbyn or not he's the only option to beat them. Love the EU? If we are to remain labour have to lead on it as lds lack the numbers.

    They can still have good ideas, but all they seem to care about is stopping brexit and even though labour officially back brexit only labour can help stop it.
    Excepting Macron's short-lived surge of personal popularity, where in the developed west are centre parties doing well? Perhaps the LDs difficulties are part of a bigger picture rather than being down to UK or personality-specific matters?
    Trudeau's Liberals are pretty centrist and still lead most Canadian polls, Merkel's CDU is still ahead even if the AfD and Greens are on the rise and the Spanish Citizens' party is competitive
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    Charles said:

    Away from Brexit, going drinking today in the wealthy Northumberland town of Ponteland where Newcastle’s well-to-do reside. The borders conveniently drawn so that they don’t have to pay council tax to the great unwashed in the city.

    A special shout out to all the PBers who don't know how to pronounce Ponteland.

    Is the Irish Poundland?
    technically the wealth live in Darras Hall not Ponteland but I think there is only a single pub there. Mind you I thought a lot had moved to Wynyard when the Hall's bought Wynyard Hall...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202
    edited December 2018
    kinabalu said:

    Well a lot of people peddle fantasy on here, but this at least is a pleasant one.

    Except for teachers or Boris Johnson!

    Actually only the 2nd para was flight of fancy. 1st para was straight as a die. I do think May will last to 2021 and I do think that Gove will get a massive promo in 2019 as his reward for sticking with her. Then assuming he performs he's the likely next leader IMO.

    I think he might even have a hold on her. Not blackmail, nothing sordid like that, but I sense that TM is in thrall to his charm and intellect.

    Did you notice, when she was doing that difficult speech to the House after Chequers, that she kept flicking glances over at him, to where he was standing, seeking his approval? And that he was nodding his encouragement, even winking at her at one point?

    I did, and I thought it telling.
    Gove may be an able Cabinet Minister but he needs to improve his abysmal poll rating before Tory MPs and members consider making him leader
  • kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.

    Am I in the presence of that rarest of birds, a conservative voting teacher?
    In 2010 more teachers voted Conservative than Labour, iirc. That is to say, Michael Gove started with the support of the profession. That Gove managed to alienate them is remarkable.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:
    The men were incompetent and evil in equal measure.
    Unfair Sean.

    Yes, they were mind bendingly incompetent. But what they did was seriously evil.
    Talking about evil,the murder of the 2 young women tourists in Morocco was also seriously evil,seen the footage of one of beheadings this morning and I wish I hadn't.( Just Horrible)

    Those poor girls.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202
    edited December 2018

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.

    Am I in the presence of that rarest of birds, a conservative voting teacher?
    In 2010 more teachers voted Conservative than Labour, iirc. That is to say, Michael Gove started with the support of the profession. That Gove managed to alienate them is remarkable.
    More teachers voted LD then, they just went back to Labour after the Coalition.

    Even most independent or grammar school teachers do not vote Tory, let alone those in comprehensives or academies
  • HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.

    Am I in the presence of that rarest of birds, a conservative voting teacher?
    In 2010 more teachers voted Conservative than Labour, iirc. That is to say, Michael Gove started with the support of the profession. That Gove managed to alienate them is remarkable.
    More teachers voted LD then, they just went back to Labour after the Coalition.

    Even most independent or grammar school teachers do not vote Tory, let alone those in comprehensives or academies
    evidence?
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Well a lot of people peddle fantasy on here, but this at least is a pleasant one.

    Except for teachers or Boris Johnson!

    Actually only the 2nd para was flight of fancy. 1st para was straight as a die. I do think May will last to 2021 and I do think that Gove will get a massive promo in 2019 as his reward for sticking with her. Then assuming he performs he's the likely next leader IMO.

    I think he might even have a hold on her. Not blackmail, nothing sordid like that, but I sense that TM is in thrall to his charm and intellect.

    Did you notice, when she was doing that difficult speech to the House after Chequers, that she kept flicking glances over at him, to where he was standing, seeking his approval? And that he was nodding his encouragement, even winking at her at one point?

    I did, and I thought it telling.
    Gove may be an able Cabinet Minister but he needs to improve his abysmal poll rating before Tory MPs and members consider making him leader
    You sometimes need to ignore the polls and follow your gut.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202
    edited December 2018

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.

    Am I in the presence of that rarest of birds, a conservative voting teacher?
    In 2010 more teachers voted Conservative than Labour, iirc. That is to say, Michael Gove started with the support of the profession. That Gove managed to alienate them is remarkable.
    More teachers voted LD then, they just went back to Labour after the Coalition.

    Even most independent or grammar school teachers do not vote Tory, let alone those in comprehensives or academies
    evidence?
    In 2010 25% of teachers intended to vote Labour, 18% Tory and 14% LD


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2010/jan/15/teachers-voting-labour-conservatives

    By 2014 43% of teachers would vote Labour to 10% Tory and 6% LD

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/01/just-12-teachers-would-vote-conservative
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.

    Am I in the presence of that rarest of birds, a conservative voting teacher?
    In 2010 more teachers voted Conservative than Labour, iirc. That is to say, Michael Gove started with the support of the profession. That Gove managed to alienate them is remarkable.
    More teachers voted LD then, they just went back to Labour after the Coalition.

    Even most independent or grammar school teachers do not vote Tory, let alone those in comprehensives or academies
    evidence?
    In 2010 25% of teachers intended to vote Labour, 16% Tory and 14% LD


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2010/jan/15/teachers-voting-labour-conservatives

    By 2014 43% of teachers would vote Labour to 16% Tory and 6% LD

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/01/just-12-teachers-would-vote-conservative
    Thanks, useful, but is there any indication of where we are today?
  • Foxy said:

    If the Lib Dem’s want some attention they need to dump Cable, renounce the university fees disaster (the logic of which is unravelling anyway), and find some eyecatching ideas that are liberal and address the inequalities that have sprung up over the past 25 yrs. Things like:


    Legalisation of marijuana
    Abolition of hospital carparking fees
    Proper taxation of Google, Facebook, Amazon etc and offshore financial centres.
    Business rate abolition.
    Etc

    The only thing I’ve seen Layla Moran talk about is identity politics, which is not a platform for regaining relevance. However she at least looks like the future and seems feistier than Swinson. It also too late for Lamb. So Moran it is.

    The problem of free hospital car parking is that is abused by commuters. Even without these queues and patients being tardy for appointments as a result of not being able to get a space was a nightmare at my hospital, until the CEO spent a couple of million quid on a new multistorey carpark. He braced himself for abuse along the lines of "how could you when people are dying of X?" but ithas been his most popular legacy. The queue has gone and feedback very positive, despite the charges.
    My 82 year old mum is currently at the General about to have her shattered hip repaired after a seemingly minor fall on Boxing Day. I'll get a second mortgage for the car parking fees!
    On a semi related note, I've just spent 4 quid- 4 fecking quid! for 30 seconds to drop my lad off at Gatwick this morning!
    You mean you handed over 4 quid to an effective natural monopoly which is now controlled by a French company.
    That's the free market for you.

    Twisted could always have dropped his son off at another airport. :smile:
    Why travel at all? Use the internet instead.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Well a lot of people peddle fantasy on here, but this at least is a pleasant one.

    Except for teachers or Boris Johnson!

    Actually only the 2nd para was flight of fancy. 1st para was straight as a die. I do think May will last to 2021 and I do think that Gove will get a massive promo in 2019 as his reward for sticking with her. Then assuming he performs he's the likely next leader IMO.

    I think he might even have a hold on her. Not blackmail, nothing sordid like that, but I sense that TM is in thrall to his charm and intellect.

    Did you notice, when she was doing that difficult speech to the House after Chequers, that she kept flicking glances over at him, to where he was standing, seeking his approval? And that he was nodding his encouragement, even winking at her at one point?

    I did, and I thought it telling.
    Gove may be an able Cabinet Minister but he needs to improve his abysmal poll rating before Tory MPs and members consider making him leader
    You sometimes need to ignore the polls and follow your gut.
    My gut is Corbyn would beat Gove
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.

    Am I in the presence of that rarest of birds, a conservative voting teacher?
    In 2010 more teachers voted Conservative than Labour, iirc. That is to say, Michael Gove started with the support of the profession. That Gove managed to alienate them is remarkable.
    More teachers voted LD then, they just went back to Labour after the Coalition.

    Even most independent or grammar school teachers do not vote Tory, let alone those in comprehensives or academies
    evidence?
    In 2010 25% of teachers intended to vote Labour, 16% Tory and 14% LD


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2010/jan/15/teachers-voting-labour-conservatives

    By 2014 43% of teachers would vote Labour to 16% Tory and 6% LD

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/01/just-12-teachers-would-vote-conservative
    Thanks, useful, but is there any indication of where we are today?
    Probably even more strongly Labour, the teacher vote is as strong for Labour as the ex military vote is for the Tories
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Well a lot of people peddle fantasy on here, but this at least is a pleasant one.

    Except for teachers or Boris Johnson!

    Actually only the 2nd para was flight of fancy. 1st para was straight as a die. I do think May will last to 2021 and I do think that Gove will get a massive promo in 2019 as his reward for sticking with her. Then assuming he performs he's the likely next leader IMO.

    I think he might even have a hold on her. Not blackmail, nothing sordid like that, but I sense that TM is in thrall to his charm and intellect.

    Did you notice, when she was doing that difficult speech to the House after Chequers, that she kept flicking glances over at him, to where he was standing, seeking his approval? And that he was nodding his encouragement, even winking at her at one point?

    I did, and I thought it telling.
    Gove may be an able Cabinet Minister but he needs to improve his abysmal poll rating before Tory MPs and members consider making him leader
    You sometimes need to ignore the polls and follow your gut.
    My gut is Corbyn would beat Gove
    Best to follow it then.
  • If the Lib Dem’s want some attention they need to dump Cable, renounce the university fees disaster (the logic of which is unravelling anyway), and find some eyecatching ideas that are liberal and address the inequalities that have sprung up over the past 25 yrs. Things like:


    Legalisation of marijuana
    Abolition of hospital carparking fees
    Proper taxation of Google, Facebook, Amazon etc and offshore financial centres.
    Business rate abolition.
    Etc

    The only thing I’ve seen Layla Moran talk about is identity politics, which is not a platform for regaining relevance. However she at least looks like the future and seems feistier than Swinson. It also too late for Lamb. So Moran it is.

    Abolish car parking fees at hospital and you will be unable to find a space to park

    Google etc are currently taxed on their profits - it's just that their economic activity ois p[rimarily not carried out in the UK. Companies should be taxed in heir profits and in the countries where their economic activity is carried out.

    No buisness rates means no council services for businesses.

    Happy to legalise marijuana.

    Layla Moran speaks well, as you would expect from a former Roedean school pupil.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.

    Am I in the presence of that rarest of birds, a conservative voting teacher?
    In 2010 more teachers voted Conservative than Labour, iirc. That is to say, Michael Gove started with the support of the profession. That Gove managed to alienate them is remarkable.
    More teachers voted LD then, they just went back to Labour after the Coalition.

    Even most independent or grammar school teachers do not vote Tory, let alone those in comprehensives or academies
    evidence?
    In 2010 25% of teachers intended to vote Labour, 18% Tory and 14% LD


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2010/jan/15/teachers-voting-labour-conservatives

    By 2014 43% of teachers would vote Labour to 10% Tory and 6% LD

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/01/just-12-teachers-would-vote-conservative
    Public sector workers voting for an easier life and more pay.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Well a lot of people peddle fantasy on here, but this at least is a pleasant one.

    Except for teachers or Boris Johnson!

    Actually only the 2nd para was flight of fancy. 1st para was straight as a die. I do think May will last to 2021 and I do think that Gove will get a massive promo in 2019 as his reward for sticking with her. Then assuming he performs he's the likely next leader IMO.

    I think he might even have a hold on her. Not blackmail, nothing sordid like that, but I sense that TM is in thrall to his charm and intellect.

    Did you notice, when she was doing that difficult speech to the House after Chequers, that she kept flicking glances over at him, to where he was standing, seeking his approval? And that he was nodding his encouragement, even winking at her at one point?

    I did, and I thought it telling.
    Gove may be an able Cabinet Minister but he needs to improve his abysmal poll rating before Tory MPs and members consider making him leader
    You sometimes need to ignore the polls and follow your gut.
    My gut is Corbyn would beat Gove
    Best to follow it then.
    As a Tory member I will, I would vote for Boris, Rudd, Raab, Javid, Davis, Mogg, even Hunt over Gove.

    I would he very happy if Gove was Chancellor though or in charge of negotiating a FTA with the EU
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.

    Am I in the presence of that rarest of birds, a conservative voting teacher?
    In 2010 more teachers voted Conservative than Labour, iirc. That is to say, Michael Gove started with the support of the profession. That Gove managed to alienate them is remarkable.
    More teachers voted LD then, they just went back to Labour after the Coalition.

    Even most independent or grammar school teachers do not vote Tory, let alone those in comprehensives or academies
    evidence?
    In 2010 25% of teachers intended to vote Labour, 18% Tory and 14% LD


    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2010/jan/15/teachers-voting-labour-conservatives

    By 2014 43% of teachers would vote Labour to 10% Tory and 6% LD

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/01/just-12-teachers-would-vote-conservative
    Public sector workers voting for an easier life and more pay.
    Though as I also said even most independent school teachers in my experience are not Tories, though more are Liberals than Labour unlike in the state sector
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,285
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Well a lot of people peddle fantasy on here, but this at least is a pleasant one.

    Except for teachers or Boris Johnson!

    Actually only the 2nd para was flight of fancy. 1st para was straight as a die. I do think May will last to 2021 and I do think that Gove will get a massive promo in 2019 as his reward for sticking with her. Then assuming he performs he's the likely next leader IMO.

    I think he might even have a hold on her. Not blackmail, nothing sordid like that, but I sense that TM is in thrall to his charm and intellect.

    Did you notice, when she was doing that difficult speech to the House after Chequers, that she kept flicking glances over at him, to where he was standing, seeking his approval? And that he was nodding his encouragement, even winking at her at one point?

    I did, and I thought it telling.
    Gove may be an able Cabinet Minister but he needs to improve his abysmal poll rating before Tory MPs and members consider making him leader
    If May can last until 2021, then pigs might fly... and Gove would still be rather unlikely as leader.
    Teaching a party to love Mandleson is one thing; Gove quite another.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,285
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Next Con leader? Gove for me. His not resigning was crucial and I sense there will be a reward once Brexit is delivered. I think May will appoint him Chancellor with strategic oversight of the FTA talks, leaving her to concentrate on other matters such as stopping people coming here. They will almost be twin PMs. Given such a platform I believe that MG’s undoubted ability will run riot and by 2021 when TM steps down he will be a slam dunk to replace her. He will be odds on by then, not the 12/1 shot that he is now. Fill your boots.

    Looking further ahead, I find it interesting that Gove has a son. Now I don’t know the boy, therefore this is pure unbridled speculation, but I would wager that he is just as bright as his dad and has a keen interest in politics and, in particular, the Conservative Party. Political dynasties are not something that we in this country are comfortable with, but one can imagine (if one tries extremely hard) how that might change under these circumstances. Not a betting proposition, I hasten to add, more of a glimpse into a possible future.

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.
    Perhaps he could be moved back to education? Unfinished business.
    You mean one truly epic clusterfuck with exam reform wasn't quite enough?
    I was really just trying to determine where your line was re Tory support. Gove as leader crosses it, but how about your preferred leader, whoever that is, but Gove at education or chancellor say, woukd that cancel out the leader?
    Yes.

    To be blunt, I'd be happier to see him, Spielman, Morgan and Wormald (who are the guiltiest in these disasters) kicked out and banned from public service for the future, as Cummings effectively has been.

    But given he is fairly intelligent with all his faults and we're not blessed with a plethora of competent figures in either party, I'll settle for him working somewhere a good long way from education - for now.
    A not unreasonable assessment.
    Who is going to teach him judgment, though ?

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Away from Brexit, going drinking today in the wealthy Northumberland town of Ponteland where Newcastle’s well-to-do reside. The borders conveniently drawn so that they don’t have to pay council tax to the great unwashed in the city.

    A special shout out to all the PBers who don't know how to pronounce Ponteland.

    Is the Irish Poundland?
    Top marks for originality, but way off the mark.
    Presumably in the same way as Pontefract?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202
    edited December 2018
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Well a lot of people peddle fantasy on here, but this at least is a pleasant one.

    Except for teachers or Boris Johnson!

    Actually only the 2nd para was flight of fancy. 1st para was straight as a die. I do think May will last to 2021 and I do think that Gove will get a massive promo in 2019 as his reward for sticking with her. Then assuming he performs he's the likely next leader IMO.

    I think he might even have a hold on her. Not blackmail, nothing sordid like that, but I sense that TM is in thrall to his charm and intellect.

    Did you notice, when she was doing that difficult speech to the House after Chequers, that she kept flicking glances over at him, to where he was standing, seeking his approval? And that he was nodding his encouragement, even winking at her at one point?

    I did, and I thought it telling.
    Gove may be an able Cabinet Minister but he needs to improve his abysmal poll rating before Tory MPs and members consider making him leader
    If May can last until 2021, then pigs might fly... and Gove would still be rather unlikely as leader.
    Teaching a party to love Mandleson is one thing; Gove quite another.
    Gove and Mandelson are both born backroom schemers, not frontman leaders
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Jeremy Corbyn failed to tackle anti-Semitism because he was too 'upset', Emily Thornberry says"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/12/28/jeremy-corbyn-failed-tackle-anti-semitism-upset-emily-thornberry/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited December 2018
    AndyJS said:

    "Jeremy Corbyn failed to tackle anti-Semitism because he was too 'upset', Emily Thornberry says"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/12/28/jeremy-corbyn-failed-tackle-anti-semitism-upset-emily-thornberry/

    Ah, the 'it's not malicious, just being crap' defence, the twin to the 'I'm not a criminal just really stupid' defence people use as a last resort when on trial like Onasanya.
  • kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Jeremy Corbyn failed to tackle anti-Semitism because he was too 'upset', Emily Thornberry says"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/12/28/jeremy-corbyn-failed-tackle-anti-semitism-upset-emily-thornberry/

    Ah, the 'it's not malicious, just being crap' defence, the twin to the 'I'm not a criminal just really stupid' defence people use as a last resort when on trial like Onasanya.
    "Crappiness
    Crappiness
    The greatest flaw
    That I possess"
  • notme2notme2 Posts: 1,006

    If the Lib Dem’s want some attention they need to dump Cable, renounce the university fees disaster (the logic of which is unravelling anyway), and find some eyecatching ideas that are liberal and address the inequalities that have sprung up over the past 25 yrs. Things like:


    Legalisation of marijuana
    Abolition of hospital carparking fees
    Proper taxation of Google, Facebook, Amazon etc and offshore financial centres.
    Business rate abolition.
    Etc

    The only thing I’ve seen Layla Moran talk about is identity politics, which is not a platform for regaining relevance. However she at least looks like the future and seems feistier than Swinson. It also too late for Lamb. So Moran it is.

    Abolish car parking fees at hospital and you will be unable to find a space to park

    Google etc are currently taxed on their profits - it's just that their economic activity ois p[rimarily not carried out in the UK. Companies should be taxed in heir profits and in the countries where their economic activity is carried out.

    No buisness rates means no council services for businesses.

    Happy to legalise marijuana.

    Layla Moran speaks well, as you would expect from a former Roedean school pupil.
    Totally right about Google/Facebook. If I advertise with either of them in my home county a service, say plumbing which is only displayed in my home county to people who live in my home county in the UK and they charge me £2k in advertising costs, its is monstrous that they can offload that to Ireland or whoever is offering them the lowest costs of running a business.

    If i spent £2k advertising in my local newspaper, and assuming it wasnt owned by the tax dodging Guardian subsidiary residing in the Cayman islands, any profits would be taxed here in the UK.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,042
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Away from Brexit, going drinking today in the wealthy Northumberland town of Ponteland where Newcastle’s well-to-do reside. The borders conveniently drawn so that they don’t have to pay council tax to the great unwashed in the city.

    A special shout out to all the PBers who don't know how to pronounce Ponteland.

    Is the Irish Poundland?
    Top marks for originality, but way off the mark.
    Presumably in the same way as Pontefract?
    That is the more usual way to get it wrong!

    Pon-TEE-land
  • Foxy said:

    If the Lib Dem’s want some attention they need to dump Cable, renounce the university fees disaster (the logic of which is unravelling anyway), and find some eyecatching ideas that are liberal and address the inequalities that have sprung up over the past 25 yrs. Things like:


    Legalisation of marijuana
    Abolition of hospital carparking fees
    Proper taxation of Google, Facebook, Amazon etc and offshore financial centres.
    Business rate abolition.
    Etc

    The only thing I’ve seen Layla Moran talk about is identity politics, which is not a platform for regaining relevance. However she at least looks like the future and seems feistier than Swinson. It also too late for Lamb. So Moran it is.

    The problem of free hospital car parking is that is abused by commuters. Even without these queues and patients being tardy for appointments as a result of not being able to get a space was a nightmare at my hospital, until the CEO spent a couple of million quid on a new multistorey carpark. He braced himself for abuse along the lines of "how could you when people are dying of X?" but ithas been his most popular legacy. The queue has gone and feedback very positive, despite the charges.
    My 82 year old mum is currently at the General about to have her shattered hip repaired after a seemingly minor fall on Boxing Day. I'll get a second mortgage for the car parking fees!
    On a semi related note, I've just spent 4 quid- 4 fecking quid! for 30 seconds to drop my lad off at Gatwick this morning!
    You mean you handed over 4 quid to an effective natural monopoly which is now controlled by a French company.
    That's the free market for you.

    Twisted could always have dropped his son off at another airport. :smile:
    Why travel at all? Use the internet instead.
    Or Rekall :lol:
  • If the Lib Dem’s want some attention they need to dump Cable, renounce the university fees disaster (the logic of which is unravelling anyway), and find some eyecatching ideas that are liberal and address the inequalities that have sprung up over the past 25 yrs. Things like:


    Legalisation of marijuana
    Abolition of hospital carparking fees
    Proper taxation of Google, Facebook, Amazon etc and offshore financial centres.
    Business rate abolition.
    Etc

    The only thing I’ve seen Layla Moran talk about is identity politics, which is not a platform for regaining relevance. However she at least looks like the future and seems feistier than Swinson. It also too late for Lamb. So Moran it is.

    Abolish car parking fees at hospital and you will be unable to find a space to park

    Google etc are currently taxed on their profits - it's just that their economic activity ois p[rimarily not carried out in the UK. Companies should be taxed in heir profits and in the countries where their economic activity is carried out.

    No buisness rates means no council services for businesses.

    Happy to legalise marijuana.

    Layla Moran speaks well, as you would expect from a former Roedean school pupil.
    Businesses are all taxed on their profits but business rates mean even unprofitable or only marginally profitable businesses get heavily taxed based on their location and provide an incentive to not have a location.

    Why should small, struggling businesses be expected to pay both business rates and taxes on profits - yet large multinational conglomerates they compete with face no or negligible business rates?

    Council services needs a new scheme to be funded but business rates should be abolished.
  • Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Away from Brexit, going drinking today in the wealthy Northumberland town of Ponteland where Newcastle’s well-to-do reside. The borders conveniently drawn so that they don’t have to pay council tax to the great unwashed in the city.

    A special shout out to all the PBers who don't know how to pronounce Ponteland.

    Is the Irish Poundland?
    Top marks for originality, but way off the mark.
    Presumably in the same way as Pontefract?
    That is the more usual way to get it wrong!

    Pon-TEE-land
    Chester-la-Rue
  • notme2notme2 Posts: 1,006

    ydoethur said:

    Strikingly, there appears to be no original policy thinking in the broader swathes of the Tory party: not on the backbenches, not in the thinktanks.

    All is consumed by the “creation science” of Brexitism, trying to prove the the co-existence of Adam and Dinosaurs etc. None of this is going to make the country fit for the 2020s, let alone the Tory party.

    Which makes it all the more depressing that insofar as Labour have any policy other than 'the Tories are evil, vote for us because as supporters of mass murderers we're much nicer,' they veer from the unworkable to the unoriginal to the actively dishonest.

    While I obviously don't agree with your characterisation of Labour, I'd be interested to know - as a sample of all those who think little of either major party at the moment - why you aren't enthusiastically backing the LibDems. I am not a fan - they seem preoccupied with Brexit too, to an unhealthy degree, and I've not forgiven them for the coalition
    . (For me, Gove's gutting of the education system made me sick, and Alexander's boast of "the largest programme of investment in our roads for half a century", the direct opposite of the Lib Dem manifesto, was the last straw.)

    .
    What gutting was that? Education has had more money thrown at it than a wh*re has had jism thrown in a bukkake.

    Its only over the last 24 months has there even been a tightening on the education budget, probably the first since the mid nineties. Schools have more middle management than an NHS trust.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,042

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Away from Brexit, going drinking today in the wealthy Northumberland town of Ponteland where Newcastle’s well-to-do reside. The borders conveniently drawn so that they don’t have to pay council tax to the great unwashed in the city.

    A special shout out to all the PBers who don't know how to pronounce Ponteland.

    Is the Irish Poundland?
    Top marks for originality, but way off the mark.
    Presumably in the same way as Pontefract?
    That is the more usual way to get it wrong!

    Pon-TEE-land
    Chester-la-Rue
    You mean Chesley Street?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Elon Musk is fighting a libel claim from a British rescue diver he accused of paedophilia, arguing that his statement was obviously flippant because it was made on Twitter."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/twitter-attacks-don-t-count-says-musk-in-paedo-libel-fight-p25dw6vw0
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    AndyJS said:

    "Elon Musk is fighting a libel claim from a British rescue diver he accused of paedophilia, arguing that his statement was obviously flippant because it was made on Twitter."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/twitter-attacks-don-t-count-says-musk-in-paedo-libel-fight-p25dw6vw0

    I don't know how the American legal system works but if that succeeds it sounds very stupid, not least because he is a public figure who people will take seriously and, even more notably, he made the accusation several times with time in between, so not exactly off the cuff.
  • Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Away from Brexit, going drinking today in the wealthy Northumberland town of Ponteland where Newcastle’s well-to-do reside. The borders conveniently drawn so that they don’t have to pay council tax to the great unwashed in the city.

    A special shout out to all the PBers who don't know how to pronounce Ponteland.

    Is the Irish Poundland?
    Top marks for originality, but way off the mark.
    Presumably in the same way as Pontefract?
    That is the more usual way to get it wrong!

    Pon-TEE-land
    Chester-la-Rue
    You mean Chesley Street?
    "La rue" instead of "le street"
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    notme2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Strikingly, there appears to be no original policy thinking in the broader swathes of the Tory party: not on the backbenches, not in the thinktanks.

    All is consumed by the “creation science” of Brexitism, trying to prove the the co-existence of Adam and Dinosaurs etc. None of this is going to make the country fit for the 2020s, let alone the Tory party.

    Which makes it all the more depressing that insofar as Labour have any policy other than 'the Tories are evil, vote for us because as supporters of mass murderers we're much nicer,' they veer from the unworkable to the unoriginal to the actively dishonest.

    While I obviously don't agree with your characterisation of Labour, I'd be interested to know - as a sample of all those who think little of either major party at the moment - why you aren't enthusiastically backing the LibDems. I am not a fan - they seem preoccupied with Brexit too, to an unhealthy degree, and I've not forgiven them for the coalition
    . (For me, Gove's gutting of the education system made me sick, and Alexander's boast of "the largest programme of investment in our roads for half a century", the direct opposite of the Lib Dem manifesto, was the last straw.)

    .
    What gutting was that? Education has had more money thrown at it than a wh*re has had jism thrown in a bukkake.
    But it didn't keep pace with rising pupil numbers.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Mr. kle4, reaching the top two requires not being something, rather than being something.

    Mordaunt's neither a Grievance Remainer nor a Borisian Leaver. She isn't too old. She isn't inexperienced in ministerial terms (handy, when the leader becomes PM right away). She doesn't have baggage of a personal or political nature (the longer Javid's at Home, the longer the odds of something just going wrong, whether his doing or not).

    She is, however, a shameless and proven liar.
    She also conspicuously displays a military qualification badge to which she is 100% not entitled.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626

    Whoops...

    Vegans banned by Lewes pub during hunt

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-46695991

    Vegans? From Vega? You can't be Sirius!
    The pub landlord wasn't going to take the risk of them not drinking Beetle Juice......
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Whoops...

    Vegans banned by Lewes pub during hunt

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-46695991

    Vegans? From Vega? You can't be Sirius!
    The pub landlord wasn't going to take the risk of them not drinking Beetle Juice......
    Nobody's Prefect...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Dura_Ace said:

    Mr. kle4, reaching the top two requires not being something, rather than being something.

    Mordaunt's neither a Grievance Remainer nor a Borisian Leaver. She isn't too old. She isn't inexperienced in ministerial terms (handy, when the leader becomes PM right away). She doesn't have baggage of a personal or political nature (the longer Javid's at Home, the longer the odds of something just going wrong, whether his doing or not).

    She is, however, a shameless and proven liar.
    She also conspicuously displays a military qualification badge to which she is 100% not entitled.
    So she could be Shadow Foreign Secretary then, like 'Colonel' Emily Thornberry?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Foxy said:

    If the Lib Dem’s want some attention they need to dump Cable, renounce the university fees disaster (the logic of which is unravelling anyway), and find some eyecatching ideas that are liberal and address the inequalities that have sprung up over the past 25 yrs. Things like:


    Legalisation of marijuana
    Abolition of hospital carparking fees
    Proper taxation of Google, Facebook, Amazon etc and offshore financial centres.
    Business rate abolition.
    Etc

    The only thing I’ve seen Layla Moran talk about is identity politics, which is not a platform for regaining relevance. However she at least looks like the future and seems feistier than Swinson. It also too late for Lamb. So Moran it is.

    The problem of free hospital car parking is that is abused by commuters. Even without these queues and patients being tardy for appointments as a result of not being able to get a space was a nightmare at my hospital, until the CEO spent a couple of million quid on a new multistorey carpark. He braced himself for abuse along the lines of "how could you when people are dying of X?" but ithas been his most popular legacy. The queue has gone and feedback very positive, despite the charges.
    The point of the policy is to make tories look (more) like twats for opposing it. Whether or not it will actually work or is even possible doesn't matter.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Away from Brexit, going drinking today in the wealthy Northumberland town of Ponteland where Newcastle’s well-to-do reside. The borders conveniently drawn so that they don’t have to pay council tax to the great unwashed in the city.

    A special shout out to all the PBers who don't know how to pronounce Ponteland.

    Is the Irish Poundland?
    Top marks for originality, but way off the mark.
    Presumably in the same way as Pontefract?
    That is the more usual way to get it wrong!

    Pon-TEE-land
    Chester-la-Rue
    You mean Chesley Street?
    "La rue" instead of "le street"
    Street comes from ancien français via the Normans anyway - l'estrée.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742
    ydoethur said:

    Whoops...

    Vegans banned by Lewes pub during hunt

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-46695991

    Vegans? From Vega? You can't be Sirius!
    The pub landlord wasn't going to take the risk of them not drinking Beetle Juice......
    Nobody's Prefect...
    Perhaps he cannot a Ford to annoy the Hunter s
  • kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Next Con leader? Gove for me. His not resigning was crucial and I sense there will be a reward once Brexit is delivered. I think May will appoint him Chancellor with strategic oversight of the FTA talks, leaving her to concentrate on other matters such as stopping people coming here. They will almost be twin PMs. Given such a platform I believe that MG’s undoubted ability will run riot and by 2021 when TM steps down he will be a slam dunk to replace her. He will be odds on by then, not the 12/1 shot that he is now. Fill your boots.

    Looking further ahead, I find it interesting that Gove has a son. Now I don’t know the boy, therefore this is pure unbridled speculation, but I would wager that he is just as bright as his dad and has a keen interest in politics and, in particular, the Conservative Party. Political dynasties are not something that we in this country are comfortable with, but one can imagine (if one tries extremely hard) how that might change under these circumstances. Not a betting proposition, I hasten to add, more of a glimpse into a possible future.

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.
    Perhaps he could be moved back to education? Unfinished business.
    And totally get rid of the teachers' Tory vote
    Just as Hunt totally got rid of the doctors’ Tory vote.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Elon Musk is fighting a libel claim from a British rescue diver he accused of paedophilia, arguing that his statement was obviously flippant because it was made on Twitter."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/twitter-attacks-don-t-count-says-musk-in-paedo-libel-fight-p25dw6vw0

    I don't know how the American legal system works but if that succeeds it sounds very stupid, not least because he is a public figure who people will take seriously and, even more notably, he made the accusation several times with time in between, so not exactly off the cuff.
    It is a bit stupid I agree.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742

    Whoops...

    Vegans banned by Lewes pub during hunt

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-46695991

    Vegans? From Vega? You can't be Sirius!
    The pub landlord wasn't going to take the risk of them not drinking Beetle Juice......
    Though the Landlord may get himself in trouble as there is a legal case that veganism may well be a religion, and therefore a protected characteristic in law.

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1078679255163248642?s=19
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626
    +++++BREAKING NEWS+++++ We have a wren in the house that has defied all attempts to re-locate it outdoors.

    It is currently hiding in the Christmas tree.....
  • Foxy said:

    Whoops...

    Vegans banned by Lewes pub during hunt

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-46695991

    Vegans? From Vega? You can't be Sirius!
    The pub landlord wasn't going to take the risk of them not drinking Beetle Juice......
    Though the Landlord may get himself in trouble as there is a legal case that veganism may well be a religion, and therefore a protected characteristic in law.

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1078679255163248642?s=19
    Better wait until after Brexit. Vegans may be required to vary their diet more.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Next Con leader? Gove for me. His not resigning was crucial and I sense there will be a reward once Brexit is delivered. I think May will appoint him Chancellor with strategic oversight of the FTA talks, leaving her to concentrate on other matters such as stopping people coming here. They will almost be twin PMs. Given such a platform I believe that MG’s undoubted ability will run riot and by 2021 when TM steps down he will be a slam dunk to replace her. He will be odds on by then, not the 12/1 shot that he is now. Fill your boots.

    Looking further ahead, I find it interesting that Gove has a son. Now I don’t know the boy, therefore this is pure unbridled speculation, but I would wager that he is just as bright as his dad and has a keen interest in politics and, in particular, the Conservative Party. Political dynasties are not something that we in this country are comfortable with, but one can imagine (if one tries extremely hard) how that might change under these circumstances. Not a betting proposition, I hasten to add, more of a glimpse into a possible future.

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.
    Perhaps he could be moved back to education? Unfinished business.
    And totally get rid of the teachers' Tory vote
    Just as Hunt totally got rid of the doctors’ Tory vote.
    Nah, plenty of my colleagues vote Tory. Indeed, I have great fun winding up one of my colleagues about how Corbyn will ban his private practice. :)
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    This headline actually made me laugh out loud

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/12/28/jeremy-corbyn-failed-tackle-anti-semitism-upset-emily-thornberry/

    "too upset" lol


    Pull the other one Jezbollah
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Away from Brexit, going drinking today in the wealthy Northumberland town of Ponteland where Newcastle’s well-to-do reside. The borders conveniently drawn so that they don’t have to pay council tax to the great unwashed in the city.

    A special shout out to all the PBers who don't know how to pronounce Ponteland.

    Is the Irish Poundland?
    Top marks for originality, but way off the mark.
    Presumably in the same way as Pontefract?
    That is the more usual way to get it wrong!

    Pon-TEE-land
    Chester-la-Rue
    You mean Chesley Street?
    "La rue" instead of "le street"
    Street comes from ancien français via the Normans anyway - l'estrée.
    The Normans were of Viking descent not French.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507

    +++++BREAKING NEWS+++++ We have a wren in the house that has defied all attempts to re-locate it outdoors.

    It is currently hiding in the Christmas tree.....

    aww bless it. I love wrens (and i dont mean the female sailors). good luck with the rescue.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742

    +++++BREAKING NEWS+++++ We have a wren in the house that has defied all attempts to re-locate it outdoors.

    It is currently hiding in the Christmas tree.....

    Are you sure it is not a partridge whose arboreal sense has been lost?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742

    Foxy said:

    Whoops...

    Vegans banned by Lewes pub during hunt

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-46695991

    Vegans? From Vega? You can't be Sirius!
    The pub landlord wasn't going to take the risk of them not drinking Beetle Juice......
    Though the Landlord may get himself in trouble as there is a legal case that veganism may well be a religion, and therefore a protected characteristic in law.

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1078679255163248642?s=19
    Better wait until after Brexit. Vegans may be required to vary their diet more.
    Surely there will be enough tinned beans to keep us from cannabalism?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    ydoethur said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Mr. kle4, reaching the top two requires not being something, rather than being something.

    Mordaunt's neither a Grievance Remainer nor a Borisian Leaver. She isn't too old. She isn't inexperienced in ministerial terms (handy, when the leader becomes PM right away). She doesn't have baggage of a personal or political nature (the longer Javid's at Home, the longer the odds of something just going wrong, whether his doing or not).

    She is, however, a shameless and proven liar.
    She also conspicuously displays a military qualification badge to which she is 100% not entitled.
    So she could be Shadow Foreign Secretary then, like 'Colonel' Emily Thornberry?
    It could still happen. The MoD hands out honorary commissions like ballpoint pens these days. They made the head of the Institute of Directors a Commander in the RN - a rank which would normally take 20 years of service to achieve. It's become a sort of parallel honours system that the government can use to dispense favour to its political allies at very little cost.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626
    Floater said:

    This headline actually made me laugh out loud

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/12/28/jeremy-corbyn-failed-tackle-anti-semitism-upset-emily-thornberry/

    "too upset" lol


    Pull the other one Jezbollah

    "Ms Thornberry drew laughter from the audience when she said that "there isn't a racist or antisemitic bone in his body."

    Still some work to do to win them round then......
  • AmpfieldAndyAmpfieldAndy Posts: 1,445
    edited December 2018
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Next Con leader? Gove for me. His not resigning was crucial and I sense there will be a reward once Brexit is delivered. I think May will appoint him Chancellor with strategic oversight of the FTA talks, leaving her to concentrate on other matters such as stopping people coming here. They will almost be twin PMs. Given such a platform I believe that MG’s undoubted ability will run riot and by 2021 when TM steps down he will be a slam dunk to replace her. He will be odds on by then, not the 12/1 shot that he is now. Fill your boots.

    Looking further ahead, I find it interesting that Gove has a son. Now I don’t know the boy, therefore this is pure unbridled speculation, but I would wager that he is just as bright as his dad and has a keen interest in politics and, in particular, the Conservative Party. Political dynasties are not something that we in this country are comfortable with, but one can imagine (if one tries extremely hard) how that might change under these circumstances. Not a betting proposition, I hasten to add, more of a glimpse into a possible future.

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.
    Perhaps he could be moved back to education? Unfinished business.
    And totally get rid of the teachers' Tory vote
    Just as Hunt totally got rid of the doctors’ Tory vote.
    Nah, plenty of my colleagues vote Tory. Indeed, I have great fun winding up one of my colleagues about how Corbyn will ban his private practice. :)
    There are 9 doctors in my family and that of my sister. 2015 8 voted Tory I voted LibDem. Next election 8 will vote Labour and I won’t bother voting. All of 8 proudly profess that nine oftheir colleagues will vote Tory and are really angry that locus earm more working 2 days a week that they do for keeping their full time jobs. The Hunt effect. I think the Tories are needlessly sacrificing the public sector vote.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    AndyJS said:

    "Elon Musk is fighting a libel claim from a British rescue diver he accused of paedophilia, arguing that his statement was obviously flippant because it was made on Twitter."

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/twitter-attacks-don-t-count-says-musk-in-paedo-libel-fight-p25dw6vw0

    Considering how a false allegation of paedophilia can destroy someones life I sincerely hope he loses.

  • Vegans in a legal bid to gain official status as preaching zealots :p
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Next Con leader? Gove for me. His not resigning was crucial and I sense there will be a reward once Brexit is delivered. I think May will appoint him Chancellor with strategic oversight of the FTA talks, leaving her to concentrate on other matters such as stopping people coming here. They will almost be twin PMs. Given such a platform I believe that MG’s undoubted ability will run riot and by 2021 when TM steps down he will be a slam dunk to replace her. He will be odds on by then, not the 12/1 shot that he is now. Fill your boots.

    Looking further ahead, I find it interesting that Gove has a son. Now I don’t know the boy, therefore this is pure unbridled speculation, but I would wager that he is just as bright as his dad and has a keen interest in politics and, in particular, the Conservative Party. Political dynasties are not something that we in this country are comfortable with, but one can imagine (if one tries extremely hard) how that might change under these circumstances. Not a betting proposition, I hasten to add, more of a glimpse into a possible future.

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.
    Perhaps he could be moved back to education? Unfinished business.
    And totally get rid of the teachers' Tory vote
    Just as Hunt totally got rid of the doctors’ Tory vote.
    Nah, plenty of my colleagues vote Tory. Indeed, I have great fun winding up one of my colleagues about how Corbyn will ban his private practice. :)
    There are 9 doctors in my family and that of my sister. 2015 8 voted Tory I voted LibDem. Next election 8 will vote Labour and I won’t bother voting. All of 8 proudly profess that nine oftheir colleagues will vote Tory and are really angry that locus earm more working 2 days a week that they do for keeping their full time jobs. The Hunt effect. I think the Tories are needlessly sacrificing the public sector vote.
    Yes, agency locums do get paid well. It is a feature, not a bug, of Brexit to drive up wages of sturdy British yeomen like yours truly :)
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    A jewish friend drew this to my attention

    https://twitter.com/HillelNeuer/status/1078001068712386560

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    +++++BREAKING NEWS+++++ We have a wren in the house that has defied all attempts to re-locate it outdoors.

    It is currently hiding in the Christmas tree.....

    aww bless it. I love wrens (and i dont mean the female sailors). good luck with the rescue.
    When I was first commissioned they were known by the charming sobriquet of "splits". A fatwa was issued from the Admiralty banning this term so they were then rebranded as Wasas (was a split). They were disbanded shortly after which was a shame as they were useful for those sailors who were too lazy to have a wank.
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Next Con leader? Gove for me. His not resigning was crucial and I sense there will be a reward once Brexit is delivered. I think May will appoint him Chancellor with strategic oversight of the FTA talks, leaving her to concentrate on other matters such as stopping people coming here. They will almost be twin PMs. Given such a platform I believe that MG’s undoubted ability will run riot and by 2021 when TM steps down he will be a slam dunk to replace her. He will be odds on by then, not the 12/1 shot that he is now. Fill your boots.

    Looking further ahead, I find it interesting that Gove has a son. Now I don’t know the boy, therefore this is pure unbridled speculation, but I would wager that he is just as bright as his dad and has a keen interest in politics and, in particular, the Conservative Party. Political dynasties are not something that we in this country are comfortable with, but one can imagine (if one tries extremely hard) how that might change under these circumstances. Not a betting proposition, I hasten to add, more of a glimpse into a possible future.

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.
    Perhaps he could be moved back to education? Unfinished business.
    And totally get rid of the teachers' Tory vote
    Just as Hunt totally got rid of the doctors’ Tory vote.
    Nah, plenty of my colleagues vote Tory. Indeed, I have great fun winding up one of my colleagues about how Corbyn will ban his private practice. :)
    There are 9 doctors in my family and that of my sister. 2015 8 voted Tory I voted LibDem. Next election 8 will vote Labour and I won’t bother voting. All of 8 proudly profess that nine oftheir colleagues will vote Tory and are really angry that locus earm more working 2 days a week that they do for keeping their full time jobs. The Hunt effect. I think the Tories are needlessly sacrificing the public sector vote.
    Yes, agency locums do get paid well. It is a feature, not a bug, of Brexit to drive up wages of sturdy British yeomen like yours truly :)
    I think it’s a function of seeing so many British trained newly qualified’s go to Australia, NZ, Canada etc myself. This was still a major problem even when freedom of movement was allowing large numbers of EU doctors in to staff the NHS. Brexit hasn’t changed that.


  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,502

    +++++BREAKING NEWS+++++ We have a wren in the house that has defied all attempts to re-locate it outdoors.

    It is currently hiding in the Christmas tree.....

    Hmmm. From Wikipedia so.... 'The wren is an active little bird, and so its symbolic Celtic meanings include activity, vibrancy, alertness and efficiency.'

    Posted for what it's worth, if anything.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    Just as an aside: can anyone pinpoint exactly when the Tories managed to transition themselves into the Conservative Reactionary Anti-european Party?
  • AmpfieldAndyAmpfieldAndy Posts: 1,445
    edited December 2018
    Javid has no chance. His immigration policy has been rightly ridiculed by Migration Watch and the escalating problem of Iranians illegally crossing the Channel is not being dealt with at all. How on earth May and her merry band of thumb twiddlers expect to be able to patrol and enforce our fishing grounds is beyond me. I doubt the electorate put any faith in them either.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,502
    Dura_Ace said:

    +++++BREAKING NEWS+++++ We have a wren in the house that has defied all attempts to re-locate it outdoors.

    It is currently hiding in the Christmas tree.....

    aww bless it. I love wrens (and i dont mean the female sailors). good luck with the rescue.
    When I was first commissioned they were known by the charming sobriquet of "splits". A fatwa was issued from the Admiralty banning this term so they were then rebranded as Wasas (was a split). They were disbanded shortly after which was a shame as they were useful for those sailors who were too lazy to have a wank.
    One of my cousins spent the war in the Wrens. She said her first few weeks in barracks were an education.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Dura_Ace said:

    +++++BREAKING NEWS+++++ We have a wren in the house that has defied all attempts to re-locate it outdoors.

    It is currently hiding in the Christmas tree.....

    aww bless it. I love wrens (and i dont mean the female sailors). good luck with the rescue.
    When I was first commissioned they were known by the charming sobriquet of "splits". A fatwa was issued from the Admiralty banning this term so they were then rebranded as Wasas (was a split). They were disbanded shortly after which was a shame as they were useful for those sailors who were too lazy to have a wank.
    There was a famous occasion in 1939 when a female peer made a celebrated double entendre over delays in uniforms. The Minister said WRNS would get their uniforms when all seamen on active service had:

    'Is my right hon. Friend saying WRNS' skirts must be held up until all sailors have been satisfied?'
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,502
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Next Con leader? Gove for me. His not resigning was crucial and I sense there will be a reward once Brexit is delivered. I think May will appoint him Chancellor with strategic oversight of the FTA talks, leaving her to concentrate on other matters such as stopping people coming here. They will almost be twin PMs. Given such a platform I believe that MG’s undoubted ability will run riot and by 2021 when TM steps down he will be a slam dunk to replace her. He will be odds on by then, not the 12/1 shot that he is now. Fill your boots.

    Looking further ahead, I find it interesting that Gove has a son. Now I don’t know the boy, therefore this is pure unbridled speculation, but I would wager that he is just as bright as his dad and has a keen interest in politics and, in particular, the Conservative Party. Political dynasties are not something that we in this country are comfortable with, but one can imagine (if one tries extremely hard) how that might change under these circumstances. Not a betting proposition, I hasten to add, more of a glimpse into a possible future.

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.
    Perhaps he could be moved back to education? Unfinished business.
    And totally get rid of the teachers' Tory vote
    Just as Hunt totally got rid of the doctors’ Tory vote.
    Nah, plenty of my colleagues vote Tory. Indeed, I have great fun winding up one of my colleagues about how Corbyn will ban his private practice. :)
    There are 9 doctors in my family and that of my sister. 2015 8 voted Tory I voted LibDem. Next election 8 will vote Labour and I won’t bother voting. All of 8 proudly profess that nine oftheir colleagues will vote Tory and are really angry that locus earm more working 2 days a week that they do for keeping their full time jobs. The Hunt effect. I think the Tories are needlessly sacrificing the public sector vote.
    Yes, agency locums do get paid well. It is a feature, not a bug, of Brexit to drive up wages of sturdy British yeomen like yours truly :)
    Locums in most professions get paid 'better' than regular staff. They do not, though, get paid holidays or pensions. And if by mischance they fall sick the time they spend off is unremunerated.
  • +++++BREAKING NEWS+++++ We have a wren in the house that has defied all attempts to re-locate it outdoors.

    It is currently hiding in the Christmas tree.....

    Can't you just pretend it's a drone and shoot it down?

    Disclaimer: Only kidding - I'm actually a vegetarian :)
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Next Con leader? Gove for me. His not resigning was crucial and I sense there will be a reward once Brexit is delivered. I think May will appoint him Chancellor with strategic oversight of the FTA talks, leaving her to concentrate on other matters such as stopping people coming here. They will almost be twin PMs. Given such a platform I believe that MG’s undoubted ability will run riot and by 2021 when TM steps down he will be a slam dunk to replace her. He will be odds on by then, not the 12/1 shot that he is now. Fill your boots.

    Looking further ahead, I find it interesting that Gove has a son. Now I don’t know the boy, therefore this is pure unbridled speculation, but I would wager that he is just as bright as his dad and has a keen interest in politics and, in particular, the Conservative Party. Political dynasties are not something that we in this country are comfortable with, but one can imagine (if one tries extremely hard) how that might change under these circumstances. Not a betting proposition, I hasten to add, more of a glimpse into a possible future.

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.
    Perhaps he could be moved back to education? Unfinished business.
    And totally get rid of the teachers' Tory vote
    Just as Hunt totally got rid of the doctors’ Tory vote.
    Nah, plenty of my colleagues vote Tory. Indeed, I have great fun winding up one of my colleagues about how Corbyn will ban his private practice. :)
    There are 9 doctors in my family and that of my sister. 2015 8 voted Tory I voted LibDem. Next election 8 will vote Labour and I won’t bother voting. All of 8 proudly profess that nine oftheir colleagues will vote Tory and are really angry that locus earm more working 2 days a week that they do for keeping their full time jobs. The Hunt effect. I think the Tories are needlessly sacrificing the public sector vote.
    Yes, agency locums do get paid well. It is a feature, not a bug, of Brexit to drive up wages of sturdy British yeomen like yours truly :)
    Locums in most professions get paid 'better' than regular staff. They do not, though, get paid holidays or pensions. And if by mischance they fall sick the time they spend off is unremunerated.
    NHS locums are still entitled NHS pensions on their locum earnings if they opt in and continue to pay into the scheme
  • notme2notme2 Posts: 1,006
    ydoethur said:

    notme2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Strikingly, there appears to be no original policy thinking in the broader swathes of the Tory party: not on the backbenches, not in the thinktanks.

    All is consumed by the “creation science” of Brexitism, trying to prove the the co-existence of Adam and Dinosaurs etc. None of this is going to make the country fit for the 2020s, let alone the Tory party.

    Which makes it all the more depressing that insofar as Labour have any policy other than 'the Tories are evil, vote for us because as supporters of mass murderers we're much nicer,' they veer from the unworkable to the unoriginal to the actively dishonest.

    While I obviously don't agree with your characterisation of Labour, I'd be interested to know - as a sample of all those who think little of either major party at the moment - why you aren't enthusiastically backing the LibDems. I am not a fan - they seem preoccupied with Brexit too, to an unhealthy degree, and I've not forgiven them for the coalition
    . (For me, Gove's gutting of the education system made me sick, and Alexander's boast of "the largest programme of investment in our roads for half a century", the direct opposite of the Lib Dem manifesto, was the last straw.)

    .
    What gutting was that? Education has had more money thrown at it than a wh*re has had jism thrown in a bukkake.
    But it didn't keep pace with rising pupil numbers.
    There's a pupil bubble working its way through the system. The very first time, and post Gove, that education funding has in any way not had an over inflationary increase.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    If the Lib Dem’s want some attention they need to dump Cable, renounce the university fees disaster (the logic of which is unravelling anyway), and find some eyecatching ideas that are liberal and address the inequalities that have sprung up over the past 25 yrs. Things like:


    Legalisation of marijuana
    Abolition of hospital carparking fees
    Proper taxation of Google, Facebook, Amazon etc and offshore financial centres.
    Business rate abolition.
    Etc

    The only thing I’ve seen Layla Moran talk about is identity politics, which is not a platform for regaining relevance. However she at least looks like the future and seems feistier than Swinson. It also too late for Lamb. So Moran it is.

    The problem of free hospital car parking is that is abused by commuters. Even without these queues and patients being tardy for appointments as a result of not being able to get a space was a nightmare at my hospital, until the CEO spent a couple of million quid on a new multistorey carpark. He braced himself for abuse along the lines of "how could you when people are dying of X?" but ithas been his most popular legacy. The queue has gone and feedback very positive, despite the charges.
    The point of the policy is to make tories look (more) like twats for opposing it. Whether or not it will actually work or is even possible doesn't matter.
    And indeed if it is unworkable that is a problem for a future Labour government to worry about.
  • notme2notme2 Posts: 1,006
    Foxy said:

    Whoops...

    Vegans banned by Lewes pub during hunt

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-46695991

    Vegans? From Vega? You can't be Sirius!
    The pub landlord wasn't going to take the risk of them not drinking Beetle Juice......
    Though the Landlord may get himself in trouble as there is a legal case that veganism may well be a religion, and therefore a protected characteristic in law.

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1078679255163248642?s=19
    Only if we abandon the concept of avoiding retrospective laws.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,502

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Next Con leader? Gove for me. His not resigning was crucial and I sense there will be a reward once Brexit is delivered. I think May will appoint him Chancellor with strategic oversight of the FTA talks, leaving her to concentrate on other matters such as stopping people coming here. They will almost be twin PMs. Given such a platform I believe that MG’s undoubted ability will run riot and by 2021 when TM steps down he will be a slam dunk to replace her. He will be odds on by then, not the 12/1 shot that he is now. Fill your boots.

    Looking further ahead, I find it interesting that Gove has a son. Now I don’t know the boy, therefore this is pure unbridled speculation, but I would wager that he is just as bright as his dad and has a keen interest in politics and, in particular, the Conservative Party. Political dynasties are not something that we in this country are comfortable with, but one can imagine (if one tries extremely hard) how that might change under these circumstances. Not a betting proposition, I hasten to add, more of a glimpse into a possible future.

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.
    Perhaps he could be moved back to education? Unfinished business.
    And totally get rid of the teachers' Tory vote
    Just as Hunt totally got rid of the doctors’ Tory vote.
    Nah, plenty of my colleagues vote Tory. Indeed, I have great fun winding up one of my colleagues about how Corbyn will ban his private practice. :)
    . The Hunt effect. I think the Tories are needlessly sacrificing the public sector vote.
    Yes, agency locums do get paid well. It is a feature, not a bug, of Brexit to drive up wages of sturdy British yeomen like yours truly :)
    Locums in most professions get paid 'better' than regular staff. They do not, though, get paid holidays or pensions. And if by mischance they fall sick the time they spend off is unremunerated.
    NHS locums are still entitled NHS pensions on their locum earnings if they opt in and continue to pay into the scheme
    When did that come in? Once upon a time, as a pharmacist, I used to locum in hospitals and there was never any question of that. Furthermore I had to be paid though a company, or provide evidence of 'registered' self-employment.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    Foxy said:

    Whoops...

    Vegans banned by Lewes pub during hunt

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-46695991

    Vegans? From Vega? You can't be Sirius!
    The pub landlord wasn't going to take the risk of them not drinking Beetle Juice......
    Though the Landlord may get himself in trouble as there is a legal case that veganism may well be a religion, and therefore a protected characteristic in law.

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1078679255163248642?s=19
    Better wait until after Brexit. Vegans may be required to vary their diet more.
    Who said there were no upsides to Brexit?
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Resolutions for 2019:

    1) Be ruder to leavers
    2) Be ruder about Theresa May
    3) Be ruder about Jeremy Corbyn
    4) Be ruder about celebrity centrists on twitter
    5) Eat more pineapple on pizza
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.
    Perhaps he could be moved back to education? Unfinished business.
    And totally get rid of the teachers' Tory vote
    Just as Hunt totally got rid of the doctors’ Tory vote.
    Nah, plenty of my colleagues vote Tory. Indeed, I have great fun winding up one of my colleagues about how Corbyn will ban his private practice. :)
    There are 9 doctors in my family and that of my sister. 2015 8 voted Tory I voted LibDem. Next election 8 will vote Labour and I won’t bother voting. All of 8 proudly profess that nine oftheir colleagues will vote Tory and are really angry that locus earm more working 2 days a week that they do for keeping their full time jobs. The Hunt effect. I think the Tories are needlessly sacrificing the public sector vote.
    Yes, agency locums do get paid well. It is a feature, not a bug, of Brexit to drive up wages of sturdy British yeomen like yours truly :)
    Locums in most professions get paid 'better' than regular staff. They do not, though, get paid holidays or pensions. And if by mischance they fall sick the time they spend off is unremunerated.
    Yes that's true. In the IT organisation I worked in we generally reckoned short-term contract staff were payed close to twice the daily rate of permanent employees. Mind you, in our environment permies could also get a performance related annual bonus to add to the benefits of holiday pension, sick-pay and training.
This discussion has been closed.