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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PB 2018 betting review – Next CON leader

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  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    South Africa all over Pakistan like a cheap suit here.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    HYUFD said:

    If May goes at the end of next year after being challenged again and losing, especially under a No Deal scenario having failed to get her Deal through, then Boris if he gets to the membership will likely win it. If the DUP no confidence her and there is a general election next Spring and Corbyn becomes PM then Boris also likely becomes Leader of the opposition.

    If May does get her Deal through either the DUP back a vote of no confidence and she wins a majority at a general election next Spring or she manages to assure them on the backstop and remains leader and PM for years allowing a fresh fsced Deal backer like Tom Tugenhadt to come into the frame.

    Given 89% of Tory members oppose a second EU referendum according to ConHome this morning (more than oppose May's Deal) no Tory PM is likely to go down that route


    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/12/a-second-referendum-remains-deeply-unpopular-among-conservative-party-members.html

    Blimey, I never appreciated that Tory membership is now down to just 1201 people.

    Perhaps a few of us lefties should join it and turn it into the Conservative Socialist Party? :wink:
    Why bother? They're buggering things up perfectly well without any help from the Socialists.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    HYUFD said:

    If May goes at the end of next year after being challenged again and losing, especially under a No Deal scenario having failed to get her Deal through, then Boris if he gets to the membership will likely win it. If the DUP no confidence her and there is a general election next Spring and Corbyn becomes PM then Boris also likely becomes Leader of the opposition.

    If May does get her Deal through either the DUP back a vote of no confidence and she wins a majority at a general election next Spring or she manages to assure them on the backstop and remains leader and PM for years allowing a fresh fsced Deal backer like Tom Tugenhadt to come into the frame.

    Given 89% of Tory members oppose a second EU referendum according to ConHome this morning (more than oppose May's Deal) no Tory PM is likely to go down that route


    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/12/a-second-referendum-remains-deeply-unpopular-among-conservative-party-members.html

    Blimey, I never appreciated that Tory membership is now down to just 1201 people.

    Perhaps a few of us lefties should join it and turn it into the Conservative Socialist Party? :wink:
    I don't want to give the game away, but that is sort of a plan in a couple of constituencies near me. It's to get rid of leavers initially, but if it works who knows what the next stage might be.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202

    HYUFD said:

    If May goes at the end of next year after being challenged again and losing, especially under a No Deal scenario having failed to get her Deal through, then Boris if he gets to the membership will likely win it. If the DUP no confidence her and there is a general election next Spring and Corbyn becomes PM then Boris also likely becomes Leader of the opposition.

    If May does get her Deal through either the DUP back a vote of no confidence and she wins a majority at a general election next Spring or she manages to assure them on the backstop and remains leader and PM for years allowing a fresh fsced Deal backer like Tom Tugenhadt to come into the frame.

    Given 89% of Tory members oppose a second EU referendum according to ConHome this morning (more than oppose May's Deal) no Tory PM is likely to go down that route


    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/12/a-second-referendum-remains-deeply-unpopular-among-conservative-party-members.html

    Blimey, I never appreciated that Tory membership is now down to just 1201 people.

    Perhaps a few of us lefties should join it and turn it into the Conservative Socialist Party? :wink:
    Since when has a UK wide poll covered all 40 million or so adults?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If May goes at the end of next year after being challenged again and losing, especially under a No Deal scenario having failed to get her Deal through, then Boris if he gets to the membership will likely win it. If the DUP no confidence her and there is a general election next Spring and Corbyn becomes PM then Boris also likely becomes Leader of the opposition.

    If May does get her Deal through either the DUP back a vote of no confidence and she wins a majority at a general election next Spring or she manages to assure them on the backstop and remains leader and PM for years allowing a fresh fsced Deal backer like Tom Tugenhadt to come into the frame.

    Given 89% of Tory members oppose a second EU referendum according to ConHome this morning (more than oppose May's Deal) no Tory PM is likely to go down that route


    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/12/a-second-referendum-remains-deeply-unpopular-among-conservative-party-members.html

    Blimey, I never appreciated that Tory membership is now down to just 1201 people.

    Perhaps a few of us lefties should join it and turn it into the Conservative Socialist Party? :wink:
    Since when has a UK wide poll covered all 40 million or so adults?
    I doubt if Con Home polls are now representative of Conservative members.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202

    When Cameron was PM there were three clear and papabile candidates to succeed him: Osborne, May, and Johnson.

    It’s really not clear if there are any decent successors to May.

    So we are left with Hunt and Javid, and whichever it is will lose in 2022 to whoever it is that succeeds Corbyn.

    Corbyn is unlikely going anywhere before the next general election and would probably win the Labour membership again if challenged, Johnson would also likely beat Javid or Hunt if he got to the Tory membership to choose the next Tory leader
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202

    Third! Like Boris in the MP’s ballot....

    The 117 Tory MPs who no confidenced May would largely back Boris and should be enough to get him to the final two
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202
    Nigelb said:

    The Nigel Evans piece of Legal Aid in the Guardian is frightening, and underlines the Nasty Party description of the Tories.
    See '‘It’s completely wrong’: falsely accused Tory MP attacks legal aid cuts" on the Guardian website.

    We are approaching the US situation, where justice is only available to the rich.

    Though of course the rich are sometimes above the law to an unconscionable extent:
    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article220097825.html
    Not only justice but healthcare too in the US is available only as needed by the very rich even after Obamacare there is no state provided healthcare on demand bar Medicare for the retired and Medicaid for the very poor and public defenders are paid far less and less numerous than their corporate lawyer counterparts
  • HYUFD said:

    If May goes at the end of next year after being challenged again and losing, especially under a No Deal scenario having failed to get her Deal through, then Boris if he gets to the membership will likely win it. If the DUP no confidence her and there is a general election next Spring and Corbyn becomes PM then Boris also likely becomes Leader of the opposition.

    If May does get her Deal through either the DUP back a vote of no confidence and she wins a majority at a general election next Spring or she manages to assure them on the backstop and remains leader and PM for years allowing a fresh fsced Deal backer like Tom Tugenhadt to come into the frame.

    Given 89% of Tory members oppose a second EU referendum according to ConHome this morning (more than oppose May's Deal) no Tory PM is likely to go down that route


    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/12/a-second-referendum-remains-deeply-unpopular-among-conservative-party-members.html

    CONhome is an extremist pro-Brexit site and its survey outcomes reflect its output.
  • Mr. Smithson, can't remember the last time I visited, but 'extremist'? It might be hardline anti-EU but I think it's unlikely they're calling for holy war against Grieve.
  • TSE should be next Con leader! Yes, I propose our friendly neighbourhood Yorkshireman wot likes wearing red shoes to be TMay's successor!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202

    HYUFD said:

    If May goes at the end of next year after being challenged again and losing, especially under a No Deal scenario having failed to get her Deal through, then Boris if he gets to the membership will likely win it. If the DUP no confidence her and there is a general election next Spring and Corbyn becomes PM then Boris also likely becomes Leader of the opposition.

    If May does get her Deal through either the DUP back a vote of no confidence and she wins a majority at a general election next Spring or she manages to assure them on the backstop and remains leader and PM for years allowing a fresh fsced Deal backer like Tom Tugenhadt to come into the frame.

    Given 89% of Tory members oppose a second EU referendum according to ConHome this morning (more than oppose May's Deal) no Tory PM is likely to go down that route


    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/12/a-second-referendum-remains-deeply-unpopular-among-conservative-party-members.html

    CONhome is an extremist pro-Brexit site and its survey outcomes reflect its output.
    ConHome predicted Cameron would win the 2005 Tory leadership election and his margin of victory.

    I also think they are right on this, polls of Tory voters also show very little support for EUref2 unlike polls of Labour members and voters.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If May goes at the end of next year after being challenged again and losing, especially under a No Deal scenario having failed to get her Deal through, then Boris if he gets to the membership will likely win it. If the DUP no confidence her and there is a general election next Spring and Corbyn becomes PM then Boris also likely becomes Leader of the opposition.

    If May does get her Deal through either the DUP back a vote of no confidence and she wins a majority at a general election next Spring or she manages to assure them on the backstop and remains leader and PM for years allowing a fresh fsced Deal backer like Tom Tugenhadt to come into the frame.

    Given 89% of Tory members oppose a second EU referendum according to ConHome this morning (more than oppose May's Deal) no Tory PM is likely to go down that route


    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/12/a-second-referendum-remains-deeply-unpopular-among-conservative-party-members.html

    Blimey, I never appreciated that Tory membership is now down to just 1201 people.

    Perhaps a few of us lefties should join it and turn it into the Conservative Socialist Party? :wink:
    Since when has a UK wide poll covered all 40 million or so adults?
    They are called General ELections ;)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202

    TSE should be next Con leader! Yes, I propose our friendly neighbourhood Yorkshireman wot likes wearing red shoes to be TMay's successor!

    Next LD leader maybe
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If May goes at the end of next year after being challenged again and losing, especially under a No Deal scenario having failed to get her Deal through, then Boris if he gets to the membership will likely win it. If the DUP no confidence her and there is a general election next Spring and Corbyn becomes PM then Boris also likely becomes Leader of the opposition.

    If May does get her Deal through either the DUP back a vote of no confidence and she wins a majority at a general election next Spring or she manages to assure them on the backstop and remains leader and PM for years allowing a fresh fsced Deal backer like Tom Tugenhadt to come into the frame.

    Given 89% of Tory members oppose a second EU referendum according to ConHome this morning (more than oppose May's Deal) no Tory PM is likely to go down that route


    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/12/a-second-referendum-remains-deeply-unpopular-among-conservative-party-members.html

    Blimey, I never appreciated that Tory membership is now down to just 1201 people.

    Perhaps a few of us lefties should join it and turn it into the Conservative Socialist Party? :wink:
    Since when has a UK wide poll covered all 40 million or so adults?
    They are called General ELections ;)
    That is an election not an opinion poll
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If May goes at the end of next year after being challenged again and losing, especially under a No Deal scenario having failed to get her Deal through, then Boris if he gets to the membership will likely win it. If the DUP no confidence her and there is a general election next Spring and Corbyn becomes PM then Boris also likely becomes Leader of the opposition.

    If May does get her Deal through either the DUP back a vote of no confidence and she wins a majority at a general election next Spring or she manages to assure them on the backstop and remains leader and PM for years allowing a fresh fsced Deal backer like Tom Tugenhadt to come into the frame.

    Given 89% of Tory members oppose a second EU referendum according to ConHome this morning (more than oppose May's Deal) no Tory PM is likely to go down that route


    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/12/a-second-referendum-remains-deeply-unpopular-among-conservative-party-members.html

    Blimey, I never appreciated that Tory membership is now down to just 1201 people.

    Perhaps a few of us lefties should join it and turn it into the Conservative Socialist Party? :wink:
    Since when has a UK wide poll covered all 40 million or so adults?
    Every time we have an election. You know those things that actually matter not meaningless surveys
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626
    HYUFD said:

    TSE should be next Con leader! Yes, I propose our friendly neighbourhood Yorkshireman wot likes wearing red shoes to be TMay's successor!

    Next LD leader maybe
    As the price for seeing Liverpool win the title, the Devil will have some fun - and require TSE to be next UKIP leader......
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    HYUFD said:

    If May goes at the end of next year after being challenged again and losing, especially under a No Deal scenario having failed to get her Deal through, then Boris if he gets to the membership will likely win it. If the DUP no confidence her and there is a general election next Spring and Corbyn becomes PM then Boris also likely becomes Leader of the opposition.

    If May does get her Deal through either the DUP back a vote of no confidence and she wins a majority at a general election next Spring or she manages to assure them on the backstop and remains leader and PM for years allowing a fresh fsced Deal backer like Tom Tugenhadt to come into the frame.

    Given 89% of Tory members oppose a second EU referendum according to ConHome this morning (more than oppose May's Deal) no Tory PM is likely to go down that route


    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/12/a-second-referendum-remains-deeply-unpopular-among-conservative-party-members.html

    CONhome is an extremist pro-Brexit site and its survey outcomes reflect its output.
    I've given up pointing this out. Or that 2005 was a long time ago and circumstances were very different.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626

    Mr. Smithson, can't remember the last time I visited, but 'extremist'? It might be hardline anti-EU but I think it's unlikely they're calling for holy war against Grieve.

    Splitters!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202

    HYUFD said:

    TSE should be next Con leader! Yes, I propose our friendly neighbourhood Yorkshireman wot likes wearing red shoes to be TMay's successor!

    Next LD leader maybe
    As the price for seeing Liverpool win the title, the Devil will have some fun - and require TSE to be next UKIP leader......
    I think TSE would even rather lead Labour than UKIP
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If May goes at the end of next year after being challenged again and losing, especially under a No Deal scenario having failed to get her Deal through, then Boris if he gets to the membership will likely win it. If the DUP no confidence her and there is a general election next Spring and Corbyn becomes PM then Boris also likely becomes Leader of the opposition.

    If May does get her Deal through either the DUP back a vote of no confidence and she wins a majority at a general election next Spring or she manages to assure them on the backstop and remains leader and PM for years allowing a fresh fsced Deal backer like Tom Tugenhadt to come into the frame.

    Given 89% of Tory members oppose a second EU referendum according to ConHome this morning (more than oppose May's Deal) no Tory PM is likely to go down that route


    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/12/a-second-referendum-remains-deeply-unpopular-among-conservative-party-members.html

    Blimey, I never appreciated that Tory membership is now down to just 1201 people.

    Perhaps a few of us lefties should join it and turn it into the Conservative Socialist Party? :wink:
    Since when has a UK wide poll covered all 40 million or so adults?
    They are called General ELections ;)
    That is an election not an opinion poll
    A survey of ContinuityIDS members isn't an opinion poll either.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    HYUFD said:

    If May goes at the end of next year after being challenged again and losing, especially under a No Deal scenario having failed to get her Deal through, then Boris if he gets to the membership will likely win it. If the DUP no confidence her and there is a general election next Spring and Corbyn becomes PM then Boris also likely becomes Leader of the opposition.

    If May does get her Deal through either the DUP back a vote of no confidence and she wins a majority at a general election next Spring or she manages to assure them on the backstop and remains leader and PM for years allowing a fresh fsced Deal backer like Tom Tugenhadt to come into the frame.

    Given 89% of Tory members oppose a second EU referendum according to ConHome this morning (more than oppose May's Deal) no Tory PM is likely to go down that route


    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/12/a-second-referendum-remains-deeply-unpopular-among-conservative-party-members.html

    That isn't a poll in any real sense, it's one of ConHome's surveys that any registered member can respond to - there is no attempt whatsoever to make it representative of Tory members let alone Tory voters. Given the UKIP-central nature of CH these days I'm surprised it was as low as 89%. It tells us nothing
  • CD13 said:

    Mr G

    "Specsavers for you Kle4."

    I've decided politics is now so dysfunctional, I'll concentrate on assessing the females for attractiveness and nothing else.

    Ms Mordaunt? I've seen a lot worse.

    Priti Patel was attractive, but she's put on a bit of timber lately. One or two in the Labour Party are passable, but being honest, the Commons is Kennel country really. They might win a prize at Crufts, but that's all they're good for.

    Heidi Allen looks OK.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389
    Cyclefree said:

    notme2 said:


    Nigelb said:

    The Nigel Evans piece of Legal Aid in the Guardian is frightening, and underlines the Nasty Party description of the Tories.
    See '‘It’s completely wrong’: falsely accused Tory MP attacks legal aid cuts" on the Guardian website.

    We are approaching the US situation, where justice is honly available to the rich.

    Though of course the rich are sometimes above the law to an unconscionable extent:
    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article220097825.html
    Plebs don’t deserve justice following their shameful decision to back Brexit.

    We spend x million on Legal Aid, we should spend that on the NHS.
    Without legal aid we might find out the real market rate for some legal services. It might be lower than you think.
    How much would you pay to avoid being wrongly convicted and sent to prison? Or to gain access to see your child? Or to stop being evicted? Or to gain compensation for medical negligence? Or to get the right sort of education for your autistic child?
    Those are all true, but in my experience, most private litigation achieves nothing that could not be achieved better through negotiation, and leaves even the winner heavily out of pocket and heavily stressed.

    My view is never litigate over a will, a boundary, or the division of property in case of divorce.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626
    HYUFD said:

    Angina Jolie suggests she wants to enter politics

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46699457

    What, with her heart condition?
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If May goes at the end of next year after being challenged again and losing, especially under a No Deal scenario having failed to get her Deal through, then Boris if he gets to the membership will likely win it. If the DUP no confidence her and there is a general election next Spring and Corbyn becomes PM then Boris also likely becomes Leader of the opposition.

    If May does get her Deal through either the DUP back a vote of no confidence and she wins a majority at a general election next Spring or she manages to assure them on the backstop and remains leader and PM for years allowing a fresh fsced Deal backer like Tom Tugenhadt to come into the frame.

    Given 89% of Tory members oppose a second EU referendum according to ConHome this morning (more than oppose May's Deal) no Tory PM is likely to go down that route


    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/12/a-second-referendum-remains-deeply-unpopular-among-conservative-party-members.html

    Blimey, I never appreciated that Tory membership is now down to just 1201 people.

    Perhaps a few of us lefties should join it and turn it into the Conservative Socialist Party? :wink:
    Since when has a UK wide poll covered all 40 million or so adults?
    They are called General ELections ;)
    That is an election not an opinion poll
    PMs and MPs aren't elected via ConHome.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202
    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    If May goes at the end of next year after being challenged again and losing, especially under a No Deal scenario having failed to get her Deal through, then Boris if he gets to the membership will likely win it. If the DUP no confidence her and there is a general election next Spring and Corbyn becomes PM then Boris also likely becomes Leader of the opposition.

    If May does get her Deal through either the DUP back a vote of no confidence and she wins a majority at a general election next Spring or she manages to assure them on the backstop and remains leader and PM for years allowing a fresh fsced Deal backer like Tom Tugenhadt to come into the frame.

    Given 89% of Tory members oppose a second EU referendum according to ConHome this morning (more than oppose May's Deal) no Tory PM is likely to go down that route


    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/12/a-second-referendum-remains-deeply-unpopular-among-conservative-party-members.html

    That isn't a poll in any real sense, it's one of ConHome's surveys that any registered member can respond to - there is no attempt whatsoever to make it representative of Tory members let alone Tory voters. Given the UKIP-central nature of CH these days I'm surprised it was as low as 89%. It tells us nothing
    Show me one opinion poll then where a majority of Tory voters back EUref2 with a Remain option?

    Plus ConHome asks all participants whether they are Tory members and how active they are
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202

    HYUFD said:

    Angina Jolie suggests she wants to enter politics

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46699457

    What, with her heart condition?
    She could still live for several decades
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389
    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    If May goes at the end of next year after being challenged again and losing, especially under a No Deal scenario having failed to get her Deal through, then Boris if he gets to the membership will likely win it. If the DUP no confidence her and there is a general election next Spring and Corbyn becomes PM then Boris also likely becomes Leader of the opposition.

    If May does get her Deal through either the DUP back a vote of no confidence and she wins a majority at a general election next Spring or she manages to assure them on the backstop and remains leader and PM for years allowing a fresh fsced Deal backer like Tom Tugenhadt to come into the frame.

    Given 89% of Tory members oppose a second EU referendum according to ConHome this morning (more than oppose May's Deal) no Tory PM is likely to go down that route


    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/12/a-second-referendum-remains-deeply-unpopular-among-conservative-party-members.html

    That isn't a poll in any real sense, it's one of ConHome's surveys that any registered member can respond to - there is no attempt whatsoever to make it representative of Tory members let alone Tory voters. Given the UKIP-central nature of CH these days I'm surprised it was as low as 89%. It tells us nothing
    Show me one opinion poll then where a majority of Tory voters back EUref2 with a Remain option?

    Plus ConHome asks all participants whether they are Tory members and how active they are
    Where Con Home shows itself to be an outlier is where it shows a majority of members want May to resign forthwith. Regular surveys of Conservative voters and Survation's polls of Conservative councillors show that a large majority of such groups want her to stay for the time being.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    If May goes at the end of next year after being challenged again and losing, especially under a No Deal scenario having failed to get her Deal through, then Boris if he gets to the membership will likely win it. If the DUP no confidence her and there is a general election next Spring and Corbyn becomes PM then Boris also likely becomes Leader of the opposition.

    If May does get her Deal through either the DUP back a vote of no confidence and she wins a majority at a general election next Spring or she manages to assure them on the backstop and remains leader and PM for years allowing a fresh fsced Deal backer like Tom Tugenhadt to come into the frame.

    Given 89% of Tory members oppose a second EU referendum according to ConHome this morning (more than oppose May's Deal) no Tory PM is likely to go down that route


    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/12/a-second-referendum-remains-deeply-unpopular-among-conservative-party-members.html

    That isn't a poll in any real sense, it's one of ConHome's surveys that any registered member can respond to - there is no attempt whatsoever to make it representative of Tory members let alone Tory voters. Given the UKIP-central nature of CH these days I'm surprised it was as low as 89%. It tells us nothing
    Show me one opinion poll then where a majority of Tory voters back EUref2 with a Remain option?

    Plus ConHome asks all participants whether they are Tory members and how active they are
    I'm not disputing that Tory members oppose a second referendum I am questioning your attempt to pass off a ConHome survey as a an opinion poll that meets MRS standards.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    Utterly offtopic but worth it for the level of planning

    https://twitter.com/spyblog/status/1078591647137579008
  • Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    If May goes at the end of next year after being challenged again and losing, especially under a No Deal scenario having failed to get her Deal through, then Boris if he gets to the membership will likely win it. If the DUP no confidence her and there is a general election next Spring and Corbyn becomes PM then Boris also likely becomes Leader of the opposition.

    If May does get her Deal through either the DUP back a vote of no confidence and she wins a majority at a general election next Spring or she manages to assure them on the backstop and remains leader and PM for years allowing a fresh fsced Deal backer like Tom Tugenhadt to come into the frame.

    Given 89% of Tory members oppose a second EU referendum according to ConHome this morning (more than oppose May's Deal) no Tory PM is likely to go down that route


    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/12/a-second-referendum-remains-deeply-unpopular-among-conservative-party-members.html

    That isn't a poll in any real sense, it's one of ConHome's surveys that any registered member can respond to - there is no attempt whatsoever to make it representative of Tory members let alone Tory voters. Given the UKIP-central nature of CH these days I'm surprised it was as low as 89%. It tells us nothing
    Show me one opinion poll then where a majority of Tory voters back EUref2 with a Remain option?

    Plus ConHome asks all participants whether they are Tory members and how active they are
    Where Con Home shows itself to be an outlier is where it shows a majority of members want May to resign forthwith. Regular surveys of Conservative voters and Survation's polls of Conservative councillors show that a large majority of such groups want her to stay for the time being.
    Same sex marriage was the perfect example and exposed ConHome surveys and readers as Paleo-Conservatives well to the right of most Tory members.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    It will cost them many a New Guinea to sort this one out!
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    If May goes at the end of next year after being challenged again and losing, especially under a No Deal scenario having failed to get her Deal through, then Boris if he gets to the membership will likely win it. If the DUP no confidence her and there is a general election next Spring and Corbyn becomes PM then Boris also likely becomes Leader of the opposition.

    If May does get her Deal through either the DUP back a vote of no confidence and she wins a majority at a general election next Spring or she manages to assure them on the backstop and remains leader and PM for years allowing a fresh fsced Deal backer like Tom Tugenhadt to come into the frame.

    Given 89% of Tory members oppose a second EU referendum according to ConHome this morning (more than oppose May's Deal) no Tory PM is likely to go down that route


    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/12/a-second-referendum-remains-deeply-unpopular-among-conservative-party-members.html

    That isn't a poll in any real sense, it's one of ConHome's surveys that any registered member can respond to - there is no attempt whatsoever to make it representative of Tory members let alone Tory voters. Given the UKIP-central nature of CH these days I'm surprised it was as low as 89%. It tells us nothing
    Show me one opinion poll then where a majority of Tory voters back EUref2 with a Remain option?

    Plus ConHome asks all participants whether they are Tory members and how active they are
    Where Con Home shows itself to be an outlier is where it shows a majority of members want May to resign forthwith. Regular surveys of Conservative voters and Survation's polls of Conservative councillors show that a large majority of such groups want her to stay for the time being.
    Same sex marriage was the perfect example and exposed ConHome surveys and readers as Paleo-Conservatives well to the right of most Tory members.
    Sounds like many of the crackpots on here.
  • ydoethur said:

    It will cost them many a New Guinea to sort this one out!
    It is all part of Operation Fortitude which after Brexit is the greatest deception ever perpetrated in the UK and Europe.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    CD13 said:

    Mr G

    "Specsavers for you Kle4."

    I've decided politics is now so dysfunctional, I'll concentrate on assessing the females for attractiveness and nothing else.

    Ms Mordaunt? I've seen a lot worse.

    Priti Patel was attractive, but she's put on a bit of timber lately. One or two in the Labour Party are passable, but being honest, the Commons is Kennel country really. They might win a prize at Crufts, but that's all they're good for.

    LOL
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    ydoethur said:

    It will cost them many a New Guinea to sort this one out!
    If you could get hold of one of the proofs it will be worth a fortune as an “error”
  • HYUFD said:

    Angina Jolie suggests she wants to enter politics

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46699457

    What, with her heart condition?
    Beat me to it.....would she have the heart for it?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    It will cost them many a New Guinea to sort this one out!
    It is all part of Operation Fortitude which after Brexit is the greatest deception ever perpetrated in the UK and Europe.
    The landing or the mixup?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389
    ydoethur said:
    The men were incompetent and evil in equal measure.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited December 2018

    HYUFD said:

    Angina Jolie suggests she wants to enter politics

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46699457

    What, with her heart condition?
    Beat me to it.....would she have the heart for it?
    It is well-known that Donald Trump has the heart of a 48 year old woman.

    How he keeps it despite all the money he gives her is a mystery...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    HYUFD said:

    Angina Jolie suggests she wants to enter politics

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46699457

    What, with her heart condition?
    Beat me to it.....would she have the heart for it?
    The question is, should we have a flutter?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:
    The men were incompetent and evil in equal measure.
    Unfair Sean.

    Yes, they were mind bendingly incompetent. But what they did was seriously evil.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Angina Jolie suggests she wants to enter politics

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46699457

    What, with her heart condition?
    Beat me to it.....would she have the heart for it?
    The question is, should we have a flutter?
    She has her finger on the pulse, but could she stand the pressure?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    If May goes at the end of next year after being challenged again and losing, especially under a No Deal scenario having failed to get her Deal through, then Boris if he gets to the membership will likely win it. If the DUP no confidence her and there is a general election next Spring and Corbyn becomes PM then Boris also likely becomes Leader of the opposition.

    If May does get her Deal through either the DUP back a vote of no confidence and she wins a majority at a general election next Spring or she manages to assure them on the backstop and remains leader and PM for years allowing a fresh fsced Deal backer like Tom Tugenhadt to come into the frame.

    Given 89% of Tory members oppose a second EU referendum according to ConHome this morning (more than oppose May's Deal) no Tory PM is likely to go down that route


    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/12/a-second-referendum-remains-deeply-unpopular-among-conservative-party-members.html

    That isn't a poll in any real sense, it's one of ConHome's surveys that any registered member can respond to - there is no attempt whatsoever to make it representative of Tory members let alone Tory voters. Given the UKIP-central nature of CH these days I'm surprised it was as low as 89%. It tells us nothing
    Show me one opinion poll then where a majority of Tory voters back EUref2 with a Remain option?

    Plus ConHome asks all participants whether they are Tory members and how active they are
    Where Con Home shows itself to be an outlier is where it shows a majority of members want May to resign forthwith. Regular surveys of Conservative voters and Survation's polls of Conservative councillors show that a large majority of such groups want her to stay for the time being.
    Same sex marriage was the perfect example and exposed ConHome surveys and readers as Paleo-Conservatives well to the right of most Tory members.
    Actually polls of most Tory voters at the time showed most opposed full gay marriage and going beyond civil partnerships. Indeed more Tory MPs voted against gay marriage than voted for it, gay marriage only passed with Labour and LD MPs votes
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Angina Jolie suggests she wants to enter politics

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46699457

    What, with her heart condition?
    Beat me to it.....would she have the heart for it?
    The question is, should we have a flutter?
    She has her finger on the pulse, but could she stand the pressure?
    I hardly dare ventricle an opinion. Ask me an aorta question.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Angina Jolie suggests she wants to enter politics

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46699457

    What, with her heart condition?
    Beat me to it.....would she have the heart for it?
    The question is, should we have a flutter?
    She has her finger on the pulse, but could she stand the pressure?
    I hardly dare ventricle an opinion. Ask me an aorta question.
    Hadn't heard a murmur of this.....
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Dr P,

    "Heidi Allen looks OK."

    I checked her out on your recommendation. Certainly passable. Possibly Heidi- aye.

    But it's thin gruel in the HoC.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    notme2 said:


    Nigelb said:

    The Nigel Evans piece of Legal Aid in the Guardian is frightening, and underlines the Nasty Party description of the Tories.
    See '‘It’s completely wrong’: falsely accused Tory MP attacks legal aid cuts" on the Guardian website.

    We are approaching the US situation, where justice is honly available to the rich.

    Though of course the rich are sometimes above the law to an unconscionable extent:
    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article220097825.html
    Plebs don’t deserve justice following their shameful decision to back Brexit.

    We spend x million on Legal Aid, we should spend that on the NHS.
    Without legal aid we might find out the real market rate for some legal services. It might be lower than you think.
    How much would you pay to avoid being wrongly convicted and sent to prison? Or to gain access to see your child? Or to stop being evicted? Or to gain compensation for medical negligence? Or to get the right sort of education for your autistic child?
    Those are all true, but in my experience, most private litigation achieves nothing that could not be achieved better through negotiation, and leaves even the winner heavily out of pocket and heavily stressed.

    My view is never litigate over a will, a boundary, or the division of property in case of divorce.

    While I agree with your general sentiment, of my 5 examples, the first is not one for negotiation and is about the deprivation of liberty - beyond price, I would have thought - and the last 2 pit the individual against the state, where the absence of help for the individual makes it very unfair for the individual and risks depriving individuals of legal rights they, theoretically, enjoy.

    People who pay for themselves or who put in hours of unpaid work to get what they need show that they do value this work. In short the market rate is likely to be higher not lower. It is the very fact of very low or non-existent rates which mean that people are deprived of justice and fairness, on top of suffering some appalling injury or other tragedy. It is - or ought to be - a scandal.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    If May goes at the end of next year after being challenged again and losing, especially under a No Deal scenario having failed to get her Deal through, then Boris if he gets to the membership will likely win it. If the DUP no confidence her and there is a general election next Spring and Corbyn becomes PM then Boris also likely becomes Leader of the opposition.

    If May does get her Deal through either the DUP back a vote of no confidence and she wins a majority at a general election next Spring or she manages to assure them on the backstop and remains leader and PM for years allowing a fresh fsced Deal backer like Tom Tugenhadt to come into the frame.

    Given 89% of Tory members oppose a second EU referendum according to ConHome this morning (more than oppose May's Deal) no Tory PM is likely to go down that route


    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/12/a-second-referendum-remains-deeply-unpopular-among-conservative-party-members.html

    That isn't a poll in any real sense, it's one of ConHome's surveys that any registered member can respond to - there is no attempt whatsoever to make it representative of Tory members let alone Tory voters. Given the UKIP-central nature of CH these days I'm surprised it was as low as 89%. It tells us nothing
    Show me one opinion poll then where a majority of Tory voters back EUref2 with a Remain option?

    Plus ConHome asks all participants whether they are Tory members and how active they are
    I'm not disputing that Tory members oppose a second referendum I am questioning your attempt to pass off a ConHome survey as a an opinion poll that meets MRS standards.
    I would have hoped HY would have stopped describing these at polls after being called out on this before.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,285
    edited December 2018

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Angina Jolie suggests she wants to enter politics

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46699457

    What, with her heart condition?
    Beat me to it.....would she have the heart for it?
    The question is, should we have a flutter?
    She has her finger on the pulse, but could she stand the pressure?
    I hardly dare ventricle an opinion. Ask me an aorta question.
    Hadn't heard a murmur of this.....
    I’d heartily approve.

    She’d beat most opposition.

  • HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    If May goes at the end of next year after being challenged again and losing, especially under a No Deal scenario having failed to get her Deal through, then Boris if he gets to the membership will likely win it. If the DUP no confidence her and there is a general election next Spring and Corbyn becomes PM then Boris also likely becomes Leader of the opposition.

    If May does get her Deal through either the DUP back a vote of no confidence and she wins a majority at a general election next Spring or she manages to assure them on the backstop and remains leader and PM for years allowing a fresh fsced Deal backer like Tom Tugenhadt to come into the frame.

    Given 89% of Tory members oppose a second EU referendum according to ConHome this morning (more than oppose May's Deal) no Tory PM is likely to go down that route


    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/12/a-second-referendum-remains-deeply-unpopular-among-conservative-party-members.html

    That isn't a poll in any real sense, it's one of ConHome's surveys that any registered member can respond to - there is no attempt whatsoever to make it representative of Tory members let alone Tory voters. Given the UKIP-central nature of CH these days I'm surprised it was as low as 89%. It tells us nothing
    Show me one opinion poll then where a majority of Tory voters back EUref2 with a Remain option?

    Plus ConHome asks all participants whether they are Tory members and how active they are
    ConHome represents as strand of opinion in the Conservative Party. It would be better named as ConUKIPHome
  • Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Angina Jolie suggests she wants to enter politics

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46699457

    What, with her heart condition?
    Beat me to it.....would she have the heart for it?
    The question is, should we have a flutter?
    She has her finger on the pulse, but could she stand the pressure?
    I hardly dare ventricle an opinion. Ask me an aorta question.
    Hadn't heard a murmur of this.....
    I’d heartily approve.

    She’d beat most opposition.

    Far better than the other tachy politicians out there, those that are always telling a-fib or two.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    ydoethur said:

    It will cost them many a New Guinea to sort this one out!
    It's a proper cockup dont Juno. Someone at the RM should fall on their Sword for this.
  • Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Angina Jolie suggests she wants to enter politics

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46699457

    What, with her heart condition?
    Beat me to it.....would she have the heart for it?
    The question is, should we have a flutter?
    She has her finger on the pulse, but could she stand the pressure?
    I hardly dare ventricle an opinion. Ask me an aorta question.
    Hadn't heard a murmur of this.....
    I’d heartily approve.

    She’d beat most opposition.

    Far better than the other tachy politicians out there, those that are always telling a-fib or two.
    I wonder which chamber she would be elected to?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Angina Jolie suggests she wants to enter politics

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46699457

    What, with her heart condition?
    Beat me to it.....would she have the heart for it?
    The question is, should we have a flutter?
    She has her finger on the pulse, but could she stand the pressure?
    I hardly dare ventricle an opinion. Ask me an aorta question.
    Hadn't heard a murmur of this.....
    I’d heartily approve.

    She’d beat most opposition.

    Somebody's pumped.

    But can we please now take these awful cardiac puns out of circulation?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Angina Jolie suggests she wants to enter politics

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-46699457

    What, with her heart condition?
    Beat me to it.....would she have the heart for it?
    The question is, should we have a flutter?
    She has her finger on the pulse, but could she stand the pressure?
    I hardly dare ventricle an opinion. Ask me an aorta question.
    Hadn't heard a murmur of this.....
    I’d heartily approve.

    She’d beat most opposition.

    Somebody's pumped.

    But can we please now take these awful cardiac puns out of circulation?
    Yes, it is time to arrest the puns, bypass the subject, and circulate to some new shock.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,537
    ydoethur said:

    Strikingly, there appears to be no original policy thinking in the broader swathes of the Tory party: not on the backbenches, not in the thinktanks.

    All is consumed by the “creation science” of Brexitism, trying to prove the the co-existence of Adam and Dinosaurs etc. None of this is going to make the country fit for the 2020s, let alone the Tory party.

    Which makes it all the more depressing that insofar as Labour have any policy other than 'the Tories are evil, vote for us because as supporters of mass murderers we're much nicer,' they veer from the unworkable to the unoriginal to the actively dishonest.

    While I obviously don't agree with your characterisation of Labour, I'd be interested to know - as a sample of all those who think little of either major party at the moment - why you aren't enthusiastically backing the LibDems. I am not a fan - they seem preoccupied with Brexit too, to an unhealthy degree, and I've not forgiven them for the coalition and think they are too ready to shift around the spectrum for political gain - but I'm genuinely puzzled that they're not doing better in the current climate. If millions of people are anti-Tory and anti-Labour and anti-Brexit, why aren't they seen as a natural home?
  • Mr. kle4, reaching the top two requires not being something, rather than being something.

    Mordaunt's neither a Grievance Remainer nor a Borisian Leaver. She isn't too old. She isn't inexperienced in ministerial terms (handy, when the leader becomes PM right away). She doesn't have baggage of a personal or political nature (the longer Javid's at Home, the longer the odds of something just going wrong, whether his doing or not).

    She is, however, a shameless and proven liar.
    The other thing which might play against her is she has been very vocal for calling for a change to the abortion laws in NI. That hasn't gone done well with the DUP and, if she did emerge as a serious candidate, I think the DUP would make it clear they wouldn't be prepared to back her.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    Strikingly, there appears to be no original policy thinking in the broader swathes of the Tory party: not on the backbenches, not in the thinktanks.

    All is consumed by the “creation science” of Brexitism, trying to prove the the co-existence of Adam and Dinosaurs etc. None of this is going to make the country fit for the 2020s, let alone the Tory party.

    Which makes it all the more depressing that insofar as Labour have any policy other than 'the Tories are evil, vote for us because as supporters of mass murderers we're much nicer,' they veer from the unworkable to the unoriginal to the actively dishonest.

    While I obviously don't agree with your characterisation of Labour, I'd be interested to know - as a sample of all those who think little of either major party at the moment - why you aren't enthusiastically backing the LibDems. I am not a fan - they seem preoccupied with Brexit too, to an unhealthy degree, and I've not forgiven them for the coalition and think they are too ready to shift around the spectrum for political gain - but I'm genuinely puzzled that they're not doing better in the current climate. If millions of people are anti-Tory and anti-Labour and anti-Brexit, why aren't they seen as a natural home?
    In answer to your question, if I lived in Lichfield I would be.

    But I live in a seat where if the Tories don't win, your lot will. And I really, really don't want to in any way shape or form give aid or comfort to Corbyn.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Mr. kle4, reaching the top two requires not being something, rather than being something.

    Mordaunt's neither a Grievance Remainer nor a Borisian Leaver. She isn't too old. She isn't inexperienced in ministerial terms (handy, when the leader becomes PM right away). She doesn't have baggage of a personal or political nature (the longer Javid's at Home, the longer the odds of something just going wrong, whether his doing or not).

    She is, however, a shameless and proven liar.
    The other thing which might play against her is she has been very vocal for calling for a change to the abortion laws in NI. That hasn't gone done well with the DUP and, if she did emerge as a serious candidate, I think the DUP would make it clear they wouldn't be prepared to back her.
    Her campaign would be stillborn...

    (OK, I admit even by my standards that's rather tasteless.)
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,469
    Away from Brexit, going drinking today in the wealthy Northumberland town of Ponteland where Newcastle’s well-to-do reside. The borders conveniently drawn so that they don’t have to pay council tax to the great unwashed in the city.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742

    ydoethur said:

    Strikingly, there appears to be no original policy thinking in the broader swathes of the Tory party: not on the backbenches, not in the thinktanks.

    All is consumed by the “creation science” of Brexitism, trying to prove the the co-existence of Adam and Dinosaurs etc. None of this is going to make the country fit for the 2020s, let alone the Tory party.

    Which makes it all the more depressing that insofar as Labour have any policy other than 'the Tories are evil, vote for us because as supporters of mass murderers we're much nicer,' they veer from the unworkable to the unoriginal to the actively dishonest.

    While I obviously don't agree with your characterisation of Labour, I'd be interested to know - as a sample of all those who think little of either major party at the moment - why you aren't enthusiastically backing the LibDems. I am not a fan - they seem preoccupied with Brexit too, to an unhealthy degree, and I've not forgiven them for the coalition and think they are too ready to shift around the spectrum for political gain - but I'm genuinely puzzled that they're not doing better in the current climate. If millions of people are anti-Tory and anti-Labour and anti-Brexit, why aren't they seen as a natural home?
    Vince Cable. Not only is he the dormouse of our current Mad Hatters tea party, he is also tainted by the worst of the coalition policies. Generally I I think the coalition was a much needed period of good government, but Vince was the exception amongst LD MPs.

    I agree with the point about the LDs being Brexit obsessed (anti, of course) but that is inevitable when the membership doubles with that being the driver. There needs to be a good Locals in May to get some positive publicity, and a new Leader, preferably Lamb, but Moran passes the @CD13 test.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    ydoethur said:

    Strikingly, there appears to be no original policy thinking in the broader swathes of the Tory party: not on the backbenches, not in the thinktanks.

    All is consumed by the “creation science” of Brexitism, trying to prove the the co-existence of Adam and Dinosaurs etc. None of this is going to make the country fit for the 2020s, let alone the Tory party.

    Which makes it all the more depressing that insofar as Labour have any policy other than 'the Tories are evil, vote for us because as supporters of mass murderers we're much nicer,' they veer from the unworkable to the unoriginal to the actively dishonest.

    While I obviously don't agree with your characterisation of Labour, I'd be interested to know - as a sample of all those who think little of either major party at the moment - why you aren't enthusiastically backing the LibDems. I am not a fan - they seem preoccupied with Brexit too, to an unhealthy degree, and I've not forgiven them for the coalition and think they are too ready to shift around the spectrum for political gain - but I'm genuinely puzzled that they're not doing better in the current climate. If millions of people are anti-Tory and anti-Labour and anti-Brexit, why aren't they seen as a natural home?
    A very long standing but very pertinent question. Though I think you meant pro brexit there?

    I think it does show something good, in a way, in that it proves push factors alone are not enough, parties need pull factors. That can be as simple, unfortunately, as 'best placed to beat those I hate' which is why labour and the Tories are holding up, but the LDs just don't have many pull factors.

    Want to be green? Vote Green. Liberal but pro brexit? Lds exist who support it but from their words the party sees that as akin to heresy. Anti Tory? Like Corbyn or not he's the only option to beat them. Love the EU? If we are to remain labour have to lead on it as lds lack the numbers.

    They can still have good ideas, but all they seem to care about is stopping brexit and even though labour officially back brexit only labour can help stop it.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    ydoethur said:

    It will cost them many a New Guinea to sort this one out!
    It's a proper cockup dont Juno. Someone at the RM should fall on their Sword for this.
    O my ha-rt

    (To unify the puns)
  • Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Strikingly, there appears to be no original policy thinking in the broader swathes of the Tory party: not on the backbenches, not in the thinktanks.

    All is consumed by the “creation science” of Brexitism, trying to prove the the co-existence of Adam and Dinosaurs etc. None of this is going to make the country fit for the 2020s, let alone the Tory party.

    Which makes it all the more depressing that insofar as Labour have any policy other than 'the Tories are evil, vote for us because as supporters of mass murderers we're much nicer,' they veer from the unworkable to the unoriginal to the actively dishonest.

    While I obviously don't agree with your characterisation of Labour, I'd be interested to know - as a sample of all those who think little of either major party at the moment - why you aren't enthusiastically backing the LibDems. I am not a fan - they seem preoccupied with Brexit too, to an unhealthy degree, and I've not forgiven them for the coalition and think they are too ready to shift around the spectrum for political gain - but I'm genuinely puzzled that they're not doing better in the current climate. If millions of people are anti-Tory and anti-Labour and anti-Brexit, why aren't they seen as a natural home?
    Vince Cable. Not only is he the dormouse of our current Mad Hatters tea party, he is also tainted by the worst of the coalition policies. Generally I I think the coalition was a much needed period of good government, but Vince was the exception amongst LD MPs.

    I agree with the point about the LDs being Brexit obsessed (anti, of course) but that is inevitable when the membership doubles with that being the driver. There needs to be a good Locals in May to get some positive publicity, and a new Leader, preferably Lamb, but Moran passes the @CD13 test.
    There are a few problems with the LDs:

    - A large chunk of ex-LD voters in places like Torbay voted for Brexit and are now alienated by the LDs continuity remainism (Lab have more successfully straddled the fence on Brexit)
    - The LDs have started to look like a single issue party (even if they have other policies)
    - Cable is past it and looks old (he is only 6 years older than Corbyn but looks 20 years older)
    - The LDs are only 4th in seats now so don't get as much media coverage as they used to.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Strikingly, there appears to be no original policy thinking in the broader swathes of the Tory party: not on the backbenches, not in the thinktanks.

    All is consumed by the “creation science” of Brexitism, trying to prove the the co-existence of Adam and Dinosaurs etc. None of this is going to make the country fit for the 2020s, let alone the Tory party.

    Which makes it all the more depressing that insofar as Labour have any policy other than 'the Tories are evil, vote for us because as supporters of mass murderers we're much nicer,' they veer from the unworkable to the unoriginal to the actively dishonest.

    While I obviously don't agree with your characterisation of Labour, I'd be interested to know - as a sample of all those who think little of either major party at the moment - why you aren't enthusiastically backing the LibDems. I am not a fan - they seem preoccupied with Brexit too, to an unhealthy degree, and I've not forgiven them for the coalition and think they are too ready to shift around the spectrum for political gain - but I'm genuinely puzzled that they're not doing better in the current climate. If millions of people are anti-Tory and anti-Labour and anti-Brexit, why aren't they seen as a natural home?
    A very long standing but very pertinent question. Though I think you meant pro brexit there?

    I think it does show something good, in a way, in that it proves push factors alone are not enough, parties need pull factors. That can be as simple, unfortunately, as 'best placed to beat those I hate' which is why labour and the Tories are holding up, but the LDs just don't have many pull factors.

    Want to be green? Vote Green. Liberal but pro brexit? Lds exist who support it but from their words the party sees that as akin to heresy. Anti Tory? Like Corbyn or not he's the only option to beat them. Love the EU? If we are to remain labour have to lead on it as lds lack the numbers.

    They can still have good ideas, but all they seem to care about is stopping brexit and even though labour officially back brexit only labour can help stop it.
    Excepting Macron's short-lived surge of personal popularity, where in the developed west are centre parties doing well? Perhaps the LDs difficulties are part of a bigger picture rather than being down to UK or personality-specific matters?
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,712
    Is Betfair suggesting that the chances of a No Deal Brexit on 29 March are very close to zero?

    Look at 2 markets:

    When will Commons pass Brexit vote? Not before 30 March is 1.74.

    Implies odds on PASSING vote before 30 March are approx 2.33.

    Then go to Brexit Date market - Q1 2019 is 2.28.

    So if my understanding is right - and I'm pretty sure it is - the market is implying effectively zero chance that Brexit happens in Q1 2019 without Commons passing Brexit vote.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389
    Cyclefree said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    notme2 said:


    Nigelb said:

    The Nigel Evans piece of Legal Aid in the Guardian is frightening, and underlines the Nasty Party description of the Tories.
    See '‘It’s completely wrong’: falsely accused Tory MP attacks legal aid cuts" on the Guardian website.

    We are approaching the US situation, where justice is honly available to the rich.

    Though of course the rich are sometimes above the law to an unconscionable extent:
    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article220097825.html
    Plebs don’t deserve justice following their shameful decision to back Brexit.

    We spend x million on Legal Aid, we should spend that on the NHS.
    Without legal aid we might find out the real market rate for some legal services. It might be lower than you think.
    /blockquote>



    While I agree with your general sentiment, of my 5 examples, the first is not one for negotiation and is about the deprivation of liberty - beyond price, I would have thought - and the last 2 pit the individual against the state, where the absence of help for the individual makes it very unfair for the individual and risks depriving individuals of legal rights they, theoretically, enjoy.

    People who pay for themselves or who put in hours of unpaid work to get what they need show that they do value this work. In short the market rate is likely to be higher not lower. It is the very fact of very low or non-existent rates which mean that people are deprived of justice and fairness, on top of suffering some appalling injury or other tragedy. It is - or ought to be - a scandal.
    For sure, enabling people to defend themselves is essential, and current legal aid rates for the Criminal Bar are terrible. Below the very highest level, barristers just can't afford to do criminal defence work unless they have private means, or are cross-subsidising it from more lucrative work.

    I referenced the Golden Era of legal aid, during which (in my experience) all kinds of cases were brought that should never have been brought, and which tended to drag on interminably, because there was no incentive to settle when a person had their fees paid by the State (and if the other party was a public body, there was likewise very little incentive to settle). But, the cuts have now gone far too far.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,626
    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    It will cost them many a New Guinea to sort this one out!
    It's a proper cockup dont Juno. Someone at the RM should fall on their Sword for this.
    O my ha-rt

    (To unify the puns)
    Gold star for effort.....
  • Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Strikingly, there appears to be no original policy thinking in the broader swathes of the Tory party: not on the backbenches, not in the thinktanks.

    All is consumed by the “creation science” of Brexitism, trying to prove the the co-existence of Adam and Dinosaurs etc. None of this is going to make the country fit for the 2020s, let alone the Tory party.

    Which makes it all the more depressing that insofar as Labour have any policy other than 'the Tories are evil, vote for us because as supporters of mass murderers we're much nicer,' they veer from the unworkable to the unoriginal to the actively dishonest.

    While I obviously don't agree with your characterisation of Labour, I'd be interested to know - as a sample of all those who think little of either major party at the moment - why you aren't enthusiastically backing the LibDems. I am not a fan - they seem preoccupied with Brexit too, to an unhealthy degree, and I've not forgiven them for the coalition and think they are too ready to shift around the spectrum for political gain - but I'm genuinely puzzled that they're not doing better in the current climate. If millions of people are anti-Tory and anti-Labour and anti-Brexit, why aren't they seen as a natural home?
    Vince Cable. Not only is he the dormouse of our current Mad Hatters tea party, he is also tainted by the worst of the coalition policies. Generally I I think the coalition was a much needed period of good government, but Vince was the exception amongst LD MPs.

    I agree with the point about the LDs being Brexit obsessed (anti, of course) but that is inevitable when the membership doubles with that being the driver. There needs to be a good Locals in May to get some positive publicity, and a new Leader, preferably Lamb, but Moran passes the @CD13 test.
    There are a few problems with the LDs:

    - A large chunk of ex-LD voters in places like Torbay voted for Brexit and are now alienated by the LDs continuity remainism (Lab have more successfully straddled the fence on Brexit)
    - The LDs have started to look like a single issue party (even if they have other policies)
    - Cable is past it and looks old (he is only 6 years older than Corbyn but looks 20 years older)
    - The LDs are only 4th in seats now so don't get as much media coverage as they used to.
    I think you are being a little too kind to Magic Grandpa. I have always thought he looks ancient - put a long raincoat on him and he would look the sort of person who hangs around bus stops in University towns. Maybe that's how he has captured the youth vote..." hello young man, would you like to see some puppies, I mean, policies"
  • Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    It will cost them many a New Guinea to sort this one out!
    It's a proper cockup dont Juno. Someone at the RM should fall on their Sword for this.
    O my ha-rt

    (To unify the puns)
    Gold star for effort.....
    Rodney Utah-rt!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414

    Away from Brexit, going drinking today in the wealthy Northumberland town of Ponteland where Newcastle’s well-to-do reside. The borders conveniently drawn so that they don’t have to pay council tax to the great unwashed in the city.

    And the reason I live in a super safe seat, rather than one a little more competitive. Have one for me.
  • Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Strikingly, there appears to be no original policy thinking in the broader swathes of the Tory party: not on the backbenches, not in the thinktanks.

    All is consumed by the “creation science” of Brexitism, trying to prove the the co-existence of Adam and Dinosaurs etc. None of this is going to make the country fit for the 2020s, let alone the Tory party.

    Which makes it all the more depressing that insofar as Labour have any policy other than 'the Tories are evil, vote for us because as supporters of mass murderers we're much nicer,' they veer from the unworkable to the unoriginal to the actively dishonest.

    While I obviously don't agree with your characterisation of Labour, I'd be interested to know - as a sample of all those who think little of either major party at the moment - why you aren't enthusiastically backing the LibDems. I am not a fan - they seem preoccupied with Brexit too, to an unhealthy degree, and I've not forgiven them for the coalition and think they are too ready to shift around the spectrum for political gain - but I'm genuinely puzzled that they're not doing better in the current climate. If millions of people are anti-Tory and anti-Labour and anti-Brexit, why aren't they seen as a natural home?
    s.

    I agree with the point about the LDs being Brexit obsessed (anti, of course) but that is inevitable when the membership doubles with that being the driver. There needs to be a good Locals in May to get some positive publicity, and a new Leader, preferably Lamb, but Moran passes the @CD13 test.
    There are a few problems with the LDs:

    - A large chunk of ex-LD voters in places like Torbay voted for Brexit and are now alienated by the LDs continuity remainism (Lab have more successfully straddled the fence on Brexit)
    - The LDs have started to look like a single issue party (even if they have other policies)
    - Cable is past it and looks old (he is only 6 years older than Corbyn but looks 20 years older)
    - The LDs are only 4th in seats now so don't get as much media coverage as they used to.
    I think you are being a little too kind to Magic Grandpa. I have always thought he looks ancient - put a long raincoat on him and he would look the sort of person who hangs around bus stops in University towns. Maybe that's how he has captured the youth vote..." hello young man, would you like to see some puppies, I mean, policies"
    If he was a remain campaigner, you'd absolutely love him. As he isn't, you feel ok to call him a paedo. You Tories are all the same.......
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    MikeL said:

    Is Betfair suggesting that the chances of a No Deal Brexit on 29 March are very close to zero?

    Look at 2 markets:

    When will Commons pass Brexit vote? Not before 30 March is 1.74.

    Implies odds on PASSING vote before 30 March are approx 2.33.

    Then go to Brexit Date market - Q1 2019 is 2.28.

    So if my understanding is right - and I'm pretty sure it is - the market is implying effectively zero chance that Brexit happens in Q1 2019 without Commons passing Brexit vote.

    Another exchange ($markets). has a market titled "will the UK leave the EU on or before April 1, 2019 with a no-deal Brexit". You can back No at 1.25 or Lay No at 1.34. Back Yes at 3.95.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951

    Foxy said:


    Vince Cable. Not only is he the dormouse of our current Mad Hatters tea party, he is also tainted by the worst of the coalition policies. Generally I I think the coalition was a much needed period of good government, but Vince was the exception amongst LD MPs.

    I agree with the point about the LDs being Brexit obsessed (anti, of course) but that is inevitable when the membership doubles with that being the driver. There needs to be a good Locals in May to get some positive publicity, and a new Leader, preferably Lamb, but Moran passes the @CD13 test.

    There are a few problems with the LDs:

    - A large chunk of ex-LD voters in places like Torbay voted for Brexit and are now alienated by the LDs continuity remainism (Lab have more successfully straddled the fence on Brexit)
    - The LDs have started to look like a single issue party (even if they have other policies)
    - Cable is past it and looks old (he is only 6 years older than Corbyn but looks 20 years older)
    - The LDs are only 4th in seats now so don't get as much media coverage as they used to.
    I think you are being a little too kind to Magic Grandpa. I have always thought he looks ancient - put a long raincoat on him and he would look the sort of person who hangs around bus stops in University towns. Maybe that's how he has captured the youth vote..." hello young man, would you like to see some puppies, I mean, policies"
    Nah, you're not seeing it the way they see it . To return to TSE's thread of a few days ago, Corbyn's scruffiness is an actual advantage.

    It is the equivalent of JFK not wearing a hat. He doesn't look polished (even when wearing Paul Smith) but to most people that makes him appear more human. Same with the furore over what he wore to the cenotaph. Corbyn's appearance is clearly much more stage managed than it used to, his unusual scruffiness on that day was a message to the faithful...

    "Magic grandpa is one of us. All the other politicians belong to them."

    Don't underestimate the people behind Corbyn. They know they are an election away from power.
  • CD13 said:

    Dr P,

    "Heidi Allen looks OK."

    I checked her out on your recommendation. Certainly passable. Possibly Heidi- aye.

    But it's thin gruel in the HoC.

    And she's got a BSc in Astrophysics :)
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    If the Lib Dem’s want some attention they need to dump Cable, renounce the university fees disaster (the logic of which is unravelling anyway), and find some eyecatching ideas that are liberal and address the inequalities that have sprung up over the past 25 yrs. Things like:


    Legalisation of marijuana
    Abolition of hospital carparking fees
    Proper taxation of Google, Facebook, Amazon etc and offshore financial centres.
    Business rate abolition.
    Etc

    The only thing I’ve seen Layla Moran talk about is identity politics, which is not a platform for regaining relevance. However she at least looks like the future and seems feistier than Swinson. It also too late for Lamb. So Moran it is.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,871

    If the Lib Dem’s want some attention they need to dump Cable, renounce the university fees disaster (the logic of which is unravelling anyway), and find some eyecatching ideas that are liberal and address the inequalities that have sprung up over the past 25 yrs. Things like:


    Legalisation of marijuana
    Abolition of hospital carparking fees
    Proper taxation of Google, Facebook, Amazon etc and offshore financial centres.
    Business rate abolition.
    Etc

    The only thing I’ve seen Layla Moran talk about is identity politics, which is not a platform for regaining relevance. However she at least looks like the future and seems feistier than Swinson. It also too late for Lamb. So Moran it is.

    With a bunch of male politicians you can pretty much guarantee that most of themselves fancy themselves as leader, even those who are patently unsuitable and incapable. With women, it ain't necessarily so.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507

    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    It will cost them many a New Guinea to sort this one out!
    It's a proper cockup dont Juno. Someone at the RM should fall on their Sword for this.
    O my ha-rt

    (To unify the puns)
    Gold star for effort.....
    Rodney Utah-rt!
    you Caen be such a Beach! If you spoke to a lady like that I'd hope you'd Bayeux something to say sorry.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    It will cost them many a New Guinea to sort this one out!
    It's a proper cockup dont Juno. Someone at the RM should fall on their Sword for this.
    O my ha-rt

    (To unify the puns)
    Gold star for effort.....
    Rodney Utah-rt!
    you Caen be such a Beach! If you spoke to a lady like that I'd hope you'd Bayeux something to say sorry.
    Odon't start that again.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,257
    Next Con leader? Gove for me. His not resigning was crucial and I sense there will be a reward once Brexit is delivered. I think May will appoint him Chancellor with strategic oversight of the FTA talks, leaving her to concentrate on other matters such as stopping people coming here. They will almost be twin PMs. Given such a platform I believe that MG’s undoubted ability will run riot and by 2021 when TM steps down he will be a slam dunk to replace her. He will be odds on by then, not the 12/1 shot that he is now. Fill your boots.

    Looking further ahead, I find it interesting that Gove has a son. Now I don’t know the boy, therefore this is pure unbridled speculation, but I would wager that he is just as bright as his dad and has a keen interest in politics and, in particular, the Conservative Party. Political dynasties are not something that we in this country are comfortable with, but one can imagine (if one tries extremely hard) how that might change under these circumstances. Not a betting proposition, I hasten to add, more of a glimpse into a possible future.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    It will cost them many a New Guinea to sort this one out!
    It's a proper cockup dont Juno. Someone at the RM should fall on their Sword for this.
    O my ha-rt

    (To unify the puns)
    Gold star for effort.....
    Rodney Utah-rt!
    you Caen be such a Beach! If you spoke to a lady like that I'd hope you'd Bayeux something to say sorry.
    Odon't start that again.
    You are in danger of Vire - ing off topic.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,742

    If the Lib Dem’s want some attention they need to dump Cable, renounce the university fees disaster (the logic of which is unravelling anyway), and find some eyecatching ideas that are liberal and address the inequalities that have sprung up over the past 25 yrs. Things like:


    Legalisation of marijuana
    Abolition of hospital carparking fees
    Proper taxation of Google, Facebook, Amazon etc and offshore financial centres.
    Business rate abolition.
    Etc

    The only thing I’ve seen Layla Moran talk about is identity politics, which is not a platform for regaining relevance. However she at least looks like the future and seems feistier than Swinson. It also too late for Lamb. So Moran it is.

    The problem of free hospital car parking is that is abused by commuters. Even without these queues and patients being tardy for appointments as a result of not being able to get a space was a nightmare at my hospital, until the CEO spent a couple of million quid on a new multistorey carpark. He braced himself for abuse along the lines of "how could you when people are dying of X?" but ithas been his most popular legacy. The queue has gone and feedback very positive, despite the charges.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    kinabalu said:

    Next Con leader? Gove for me. His not resigning was crucial and I sense there will be a reward once Brexit is delivered. I think May will appoint him Chancellor with strategic oversight of the FTA talks, leaving her to concentrate on other matters such as stopping people coming here. They will almost be twin PMs. Given such a platform I believe that MG’s undoubted ability will run riot and by 2021 when TM steps down he will be a slam dunk to replace her. He will be odds on by then, not the 12/1 shot that he is now. Fill your boots.

    Looking further ahead, I find it interesting that Gove has a son. Now I don’t know the boy, therefore this is pure unbridled speculation, but I would wager that he is just as bright as his dad and has a keen interest in politics and, in particular, the Conservative Party. Political dynasties are not something that we in this country are comfortable with, but one can imagine (if one tries extremely hard) how that might change under these circumstances. Not a betting proposition, I hasten to add, more of a glimpse into a possible future.

    Well a lot of people peddle fantasy on here, but this at least is a pleasant one. Have you considered writing novels.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    kinabalu said:

    Next Con leader? Gove for me. His not resigning was crucial and I sense there will be a reward once Brexit is delivered. I think May will appoint him Chancellor with strategic oversight of the FTA talks, leaving her to concentrate on other matters such as stopping people coming here. They will almost be twin PMs. Given such a platform I believe that MG’s undoubted ability will run riot and by 2021 when TM steps down he will be a slam dunk to replace her. He will be odds on by then, not the 12/1 shot that he is now. Fill your boots.

    Looking further ahead, I find it interesting that Gove has a son. Now I don’t know the boy, therefore this is pure unbridled speculation, but I would wager that he is just as bright as his dad and has a keen interest in politics and, in particular, the Conservative Party. Political dynasties are not something that we in this country are comfortable with, but one can imagine (if one tries extremely hard) how that might change under these circumstances. Not a betting proposition, I hasten to add, more of a glimpse into a possible future.

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.
  • Foxy said:

    If the Lib Dem’s want some attention they need to dump Cable, renounce the university fees disaster (the logic of which is unravelling anyway), and find some eyecatching ideas that are liberal and address the inequalities that have sprung up over the past 25 yrs. Things like:


    Legalisation of marijuana
    Abolition of hospital carparking fees
    Proper taxation of Google, Facebook, Amazon etc and offshore financial centres.
    Business rate abolition.
    Etc

    The only thing I’ve seen Layla Moran talk about is identity politics, which is not a platform for regaining relevance. However she at least looks like the future and seems feistier than Swinson. It also too late for Lamb. So Moran it is.

    The problem of free hospital car parking is that is abused by commuters. Even without these queues and patients being tardy for appointments as a result of not being able to get a space was a nightmare at my hospital, until the CEO spent a couple of million quid on a new multistorey carpark. He braced himself for abuse along the lines of "how could you when people are dying of X?" but ithas been his most popular legacy. The queue has gone and feedback very positive, despite the charges.
    My 82 year old mum is currently at the General about to have her shattered hip repaired after a seemingly minor fall on Boxing Day. I'll get a second mortgage for the car parking fees!
    On a semi related note, I've just spent 4 quid- 4 fecking quid! for 30 seconds to drop my lad off at Gatwick this morning!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Next Con leader? Gove for me. His not resigning was crucial and I sense there will be a reward once Brexit is delivered. I think May will appoint him Chancellor with strategic oversight of the FTA talks, leaving her to concentrate on other matters such as stopping people coming here. They will almost be twin PMs. Given such a platform I believe that MG’s undoubted ability will run riot and by 2021 when TM steps down he will be a slam dunk to replace her. He will be odds on by then, not the 12/1 shot that he is now. Fill your boots.

    Looking further ahead, I find it interesting that Gove has a son. Now I don’t know the boy, therefore this is pure unbridled speculation, but I would wager that he is just as bright as his dad and has a keen interest in politics and, in particular, the Conservative Party. Political dynasties are not something that we in this country are comfortable with, but one can imagine (if one tries extremely hard) how that might change under these circumstances. Not a betting proposition, I hasten to add, more of a glimpse into a possible future.

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.
    Perhaps he could be moved back to education? Unfinished business.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Next Con leader? Gove for me. His not resigning was crucial and I sense there will be a reward once Brexit is delivered. I think May will appoint him Chancellor with strategic oversight of the FTA talks, leaving her to concentrate on other matters such as stopping people coming here. They will almost be twin PMs. Given such a platform I believe that MG’s undoubted ability will run riot and by 2021 when TM steps down he will be a slam dunk to replace her. He will be odds on by then, not the 12/1 shot that he is now. Fill your boots.

    Looking further ahead, I find it interesting that Gove has a son. Now I don’t know the boy, therefore this is pure unbridled speculation, but I would wager that he is just as bright as his dad and has a keen interest in politics and, in particular, the Conservative Party. Political dynasties are not something that we in this country are comfortable with, but one can imagine (if one tries extremely hard) how that might change under these circumstances. Not a betting proposition, I hasten to add, more of a glimpse into a possible future.

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.
    Perhaps he could be moved back to education? Unfinished business.
    A fine choice.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    edited December 2018
    Whoops...

    Vegans banned by Lewes pub during hunt

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-46695991
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Next Con leader? Gove for me. His not resigning was crucial and I sense there will be a reward once Brexit is delivered. I think May will appoint him Chancellor with strategic oversight of the FTA talks, leaving her to concentrate on other matters such as stopping people coming here. They will almost be twin PMs. Given such a platform I believe that MG’s undoubted ability will run riot and by 2021 when TM steps down he will be a slam dunk to replace her. He will be odds on by then, not the 12/1 shot that he is now. Fill your boots.

    Looking further ahead, I find it interesting that Gove has a son. Now I don’t know the boy, therefore this is pure unbridled speculation, but I would wager that he is just as bright as his dad and has a keen interest in politics and, in particular, the Conservative Party. Political dynasties are not something that we in this country are comfortable with, but one can imagine (if one tries extremely hard) how that might change under these circumstances. Not a betting proposition, I hasten to add, more of a glimpse into a possible future.

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.
    Perhaps he could be moved back to education? Unfinished business.
    His or the nation's?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Foxy said:

    If the Lib Dem’s want some attention they need to dump Cable, renounce the university fees disaster (the logic of which is unravelling anyway), and find some eyecatching ideas that are liberal and address the inequalities that have sprung up over the past 25 yrs. Things like:


    Legalisation of marijuana
    Abolition of hospital carparking fees
    Proper taxation of Google, Facebook, Amazon etc and offshore financial centres.
    Business rate abolition.
    Etc

    The only thing I’ve seen Layla Moran talk about is identity politics, which is not a platform for regaining relevance. However she at least looks like the future and seems feistier than Swinson. It also too late for Lamb. So Moran it is.

    The problem of free hospital car parking is that is abused by commuters. Even without these queues and patients being tardy for appointments as a result of not being able to get a space was a nightmare at my hospital, until the CEO spent a couple of million quid on a new multistorey carpark. He braced himself for abuse along the lines of "how could you when people are dying of X?" but ithas been his most popular legacy. The queue has gone and feedback very positive, despite the charges.
    My 82 year old mum is currently at the General about to have her shattered hip repaired after a seemingly minor fall on Boxing Day. I'll get a second mortgage for the car parking fees!
    On a semi related note, I've just spent 4 quid- 4 fecking quid! for 30 seconds to drop my lad off at Gatwick this morning!
    You mean you handed over 4 quid to an effective natural monopoly which is now controlled by a French company.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited December 2018

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Next Con leader? Gove for me. His not resigning was crucial and I sense there will be a reward once Brexit is delivered. I think May will appoint him Chancellor with strategic oversight of the FTA talks, leaving her to concentrate on other matters such as stopping people coming here. They will almost be twin PMs. Given such a platform I believe that MG’s undoubted ability will run riot and by 2021 when TM steps down he will be a slam dunk to replace her. He will be odds on by then, not the 12/1 shot that he is now. Fill your boots.

    Looking further ahead, I find it interesting that Gove has a son. Now I don’t know the boy, therefore this is pure unbridled speculation, but I would wager that he is just as bright as his dad and has a keen interest in politics and, in particular, the Conservative Party. Political dynasties are not something that we in this country are comfortable with, but one can imagine (if one tries extremely hard) how that might change under these circumstances. Not a betting proposition, I hasten to add, more of a glimpse into a possible future.

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.
    Perhaps he could be moved back to education? Unfinished business.
    His or the nation's?
    Ydoethur's, mostly.
  • Whoops...

    Vegans banned by Lewes pub during hunt

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-46695991

    Vegans? From Vega? You can't be Sirius!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    edited December 2018

    Foxy said:

    If the Lib Dem’s want some attention they need to dump Cable, renounce the university fees disaster (the logic of which is unravelling anyway), and find some eyecatching ideas that are liberal and address the inequalities that have sprung up over the past 25 yrs. Things like:


    Legalisation of marijuana
    Abolition of hospital carparking fees
    Proper taxation of Google, Facebook, Amazon etc and offshore financial centres.
    Business rate abolition.
    Etc

    The only thing I’ve seen Layla Moran talk about is identity politics, which is not a platform for regaining relevance. However she at least looks like the future and seems feistier than Swinson. It also too late for Lamb. So Moran it is.

    The problem of free hospital car parking is that is abused by commuters. Even without these queues and patients being tardy for appointments as a result of not being able to get a space was a nightmare at my hospital, until the CEO spent a couple of million quid on a new multistorey carpark. He braced himself for abuse along the lines of "how could you when people are dying of X?" but ithas been his most popular legacy. The queue has gone and feedback very positive, despite the charges.
    My 82 year old mum is currently at the General about to have her shattered hip repaired after a seemingly minor fall on Boxing Day. I'll get a second mortgage for the car parking fees!
    On a semi related note, I've just spent 4 quid- 4 fecking quid! for 30 seconds to drop my lad off at Gatwick this morning!
    You mean you handed over 4 quid to an effective natural monopoly which is now controlled by a French company.
    That's the free market for you.

    Twisted could always have dropped his son off at another airport. :smile:
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705

    Whoops...

    Vegans banned by Lewes pub during hunt

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-46695991

    Vegans? From Vega? You can't be Sirius!
    I am serious - and you forgot to call me Shirley!
  • Foxy said:

    If the Lib Dem’s want some attention they need to dump Cable, renounce the university fees disaster (the logic of which is unravelling anyway), and find some eyecatching ideas that are liberal and address the inequalities that have sprung up over the past 25 yrs. Things like:


    Legalisation of marijuana
    Abolition of hospital carparking fees
    Proper taxation of Google, Facebook, Amazon etc and offshore financial centres.
    Business rate abolition.
    Etc

    The only thing I’ve seen Layla Moran talk about is identity politics, which is not a platform for regaining relevance. However she at least looks like the future and seems feistier than Swinson. It also too late for Lamb. So Moran it is.

    The problem of free hospital car parking is that is abused by commuters. Even without these queues and patients being tardy for appointments as a result of not being able to get a space was a nightmare at my hospital, until the CEO spent a couple of million quid on a new multistorey carpark. He braced himself for abuse along the lines of "how could you when people are dying of X?" but ithas been his most popular legacy. The queue has gone and feedback very positive, despite the charges.
    My 82 year old mum is currently at the General about to have her shattered hip repaired after a seemingly minor fall on Boxing Day. I'll get a second mortgage for the car parking fees!
    On a semi related note, I've just spent 4 quid- 4 fecking quid! for 30 seconds to drop my lad off at Gatwick this morning!
    You mean you handed over 4 quid to an effective natural monopoly which is now controlled by a French company.
    Bloody foreigners, ripping us off!
  • kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Next Con leader? Gove for me. His not resigning was crucial and I sense there will be a reward once Brexit is delivered. I think May will appoint him Chancellor with strategic oversight of the FTA talks, leaving her to concentrate on other matters such as stopping people coming here. They will almost be twin PMs. Given such a platform I believe that MG’s undoubted ability will run riot and by 2021 when TM steps down he will be a slam dunk to replace her. He will be odds on by then, not the 12/1 shot that he is now. Fill your boots.

    Looking further ahead, I find it interesting that Gove has a son. Now I don’t know the boy, therefore this is pure unbridled speculation, but I would wager that he is just as bright as his dad and has a keen interest in politics and, in particular, the Conservative Party. Political dynasties are not something that we in this country are comfortable with, but one can imagine (if one tries extremely hard) how that might change under these circumstances. Not a betting proposition, I hasten to add, more of a glimpse into a possible future.

    If Gove is the next Conservative leader, I would vote for the anti-Semite.
    Perhaps he could be moved back to education? Unfinished business.
    And totally get rid of the teachers' Tory vote
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