Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Richard Ojeda – my 250/1 longshot to take on the draft-dodging

135

Comments

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Mr. Ace, I'm entirely unfamiliar with that, must admit. What odds does Bradley Smith have?

    There are no 2019 markets online yet. It's the first season of MotoE next year and all of the bikes are identical so it's purely a competition of rider ability and circuit knowledge. Bradders is racing for Factory KTM this year in MotoGP (ie at the highest level of motorcycle racing) and knows all the tracks. Also, he's only got a test rider gig for Aprilia next year so MotoE is his one shot. It looks the constellations aligning to me.

    Marc Marquez will be the unbackable favourite for MotoGP 2019 but Maverick Vinales is worth an each way punt for champion as new tech regs will eliminate the Honda/Ducati Inertial Measuring Unit hackery and bring the Yamahas back up to the front.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,005
    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    If Tezza brokers a deal that keeps us in the CU and offers stability and certainty for business and employees, nobody is going to be listening to sinister wreckers like Johnson and Rees anymore. And her polling will rapidly rise.

    I don't agree.

    Given the way public opinion baulked at Chequers' 'facilitated customs arrangement', keeping us in the CU either permanently (or as good as permanently if the exit isn't unilaterally achievable), and therefore abdicating our trade and customs policy to a foreign power, will go down like a bucket of cold sick.

    I also think there will be a challenge from the cabinet if this is the outcome.
    I really doubt that the public in general will get that exercised about customs arrangements as long as there isn't significant disruption with goods in the shops, food, medicines, etc.
    If the Deal cuts immigration and otherwise causes minimal disruption, and we're nominally out of the EU, there may be some grumbling from certain quarters, but by and large there will be a sigh of relief and a "Well, that's done now, thank God it's over" sense from most.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    dixiedean said:

    King Cole, the badgers have moved the goalposts.

    As an aside, badgers are a prime reason hedgehogs are struggling. The former have no natural predators and outcompete the latter for food (and, very occasionally, just eat hedgehogs). People bemoan the declining hedgehog numbers but whine loudly if any action to control badger numbers is raised.

    There is a wider debate we ought to have about stewardship of the natural world. Are we aiming to preserve the status quo in aspic? Should we let species go extinct if it's for natural reasons? When should we reintroduce species and when shouldn't we?

    Some have proposed wolf or lynx reintroductions to the UK in order to control deer numbers. That's likely a good idea but I pity the politicians, because at some point someone will undoubtedly suffer a bite or suchlike (even if it's their own damned fault) and the politician who gave the nod will get it in the neck.

    Indeed. The re-introduction, or otherwise, of the Lynx is a surprisingly hot topic in these parts. It hasn't happened so far. Hence, a deer cull is planned.
    Venison will be cheap and plentiful mind.
    I’ve always thought venison was a little dear.

    (That’s a joke that only works if you say it out loud)
    C'mon buck up! Out with the crap jokes.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    Just looked up the Isle of Man, inside the customs union; outside the single market (For labour at least)
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    felix said:

    dixiedean said:

    King Cole, the badgers have moved the goalposts.

    As an aside, badgers are a prime reason hedgehogs are struggling. The former have no natural predators and outcompete the latter for food (and, very occasionally, just eat hedgehogs). People bemoan the declining hedgehog numbers but whine loudly if any action to control badger numbers is raised.

    There is a wider debate we ought to have about stewardship of the natural world. Are we aiming to preserve the status quo in aspic? Should we let species go extinct if it's for natural reasons? When should we reintroduce species and when shouldn't we?

    Some have proposed wolf or lynx reintroductions to the UK in order to control deer numbers. That's likely a good idea but I pity the politicians, because at some point someone will undoubtedly suffer a bite or suchlike (even if it's their own damned fault) and the politician who gave the nod will get it in the neck.

    Indeed. The re-introduction, or otherwise, of the Lynx is a surprisingly hot topic in these parts. It hasn't happened so far. Hence, a deer cull is planned.
    Venison will be cheap and plentiful mind.
    I’ve always thought venison was a little dear.

    (That’s a joke that only works if you say it out loud)
    C'mon buck up! Out with the crap jokes.
    Don't be too hart on him.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Danny565 said:

    Anazina said:

    Listening to Andrea Jenkyns on Sky you just have to wonder how on earth she beat Ed Balls.

    She is clueless

    She won thanks to the campaigning skills of David Herdson and myself.

    It is probably the worst thing I’ve done in my life.
    Out of interest, had you not realised quite how useless she was at the time? :wink:
    Met her once and she seemed shy more than anything, sadly like too many Tories she’s become infected by Brexitis.

    I was mostly campaigning for the wonderful Stuart Andrew in Pudsey but the opportunity to take down Ed Balls was too good to turn down.

    Plus I wanted to do the ‘Balls deep in trouble’ headline for PB on election night.
    I have never grasped the opprobrium some direct at Ed Balls. He is a good guy. Sensible, moderate, tough and competent. We need more people like him in politics, not fewer.
    He was Gordon Brown’s consigliere for over a decade.

    If you think Tories say some rude things about him you should hear what Labour folk privately say about him.

    Remember he was Ed Miliband’s third choice to be Shadow Chancellor.
    He was also incredibly unpopular with the public.

    Remember his approval ratings were usually below even Ed Miliband's (which is saying something).
    A spell on SCD has worked wonders for his image.
  • felix said:

    dixiedean said:

    King Cole, the badgers have moved the goalposts.

    As an aside, badgers are a prime reason hedgehogs are struggling. The former have no natural predators and outcompete the latter for food (and, very occasionally, just eat hedgehogs). People bemoan the declining hedgehog numbers but whine loudly if any action to control badger numbers is raised.

    There is a wider debate we ought to have about stewardship of the natural world. Are we aiming to preserve the status quo in aspic? Should we let species go extinct if it's for natural reasons? When should we reintroduce species and when shouldn't we?

    Some have proposed wolf or lynx reintroductions to the UK in order to control deer numbers. That's likely a good idea but I pity the politicians, because at some point someone will undoubtedly suffer a bite or suchlike (even if it's their own damned fault) and the politician who gave the nod will get it in the neck.

    Indeed. The re-introduction, or otherwise, of the Lynx is a surprisingly hot topic in these parts. It hasn't happened so far. Hence, a deer cull is planned.
    Venison will be cheap and plentiful mind.
    I’ve always thought venison was a little dear.

    (That’s a joke that only works if you say it out loud)
    C'mon buck up! Out with the crap jokes.
    Please roe back from this.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    welshowl said:

    felix said:

    dixiedean said:

    King Cole, the badgers have moved the goalposts.

    As an aside, badgers are a prime reason hedgehogs are struggling. The former have no natural predators and outcompete the latter for food (and, very occasionally, just eat hedgehogs). People bemoan the declining hedgehog numbers but whine loudly if any action to control badger numbers is raised.

    There is a wider debate we ought to have about stewardship of the natural world. Are we aiming to preserve the status quo in aspic? Should we let species go extinct if it's for natural reasons? When should we reintroduce species and when shouldn't we?

    Some have proposed wolf or lynx reintroductions to the UK in order to control deer numbers. That's likely a good idea but I pity the politicians, because at some point someone will undoubtedly suffer a bite or suchlike (even if it's their own damned fault) and the politician who gave the nod will get it in the neck.

    Indeed. The re-introduction, or otherwise, of the Lynx is a surprisingly hot topic in these parts. It hasn't happened so far. Hence, a deer cull is planned.
    Venison will be cheap and plentiful mind.
    I’ve always thought venison was a little dear.

    (That’s a joke that only works if you say it out loud)
    C'mon buck up! Out with the crap jokes.
    Don't be too hart on him.
    This thread seems to be stuck in a rut.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    HYUFD said:

    Boris says the delay is just theatre and a Deal will be reached keeping the UK in the Customs Union and as a colony of the EU and we should switch to 'super Canada'

    https://mobile.twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1062289237553410048

    He is really a nasty piece of work and I would switch my vote for the first time ever if he was the party leader. To call him scum demeans the word.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    welshowl said:

    felix said:

    dixiedean said:

    King Cole, the badgers have moved the goalposts.

    As an aside, badgers are a prime reason hedgehogs are struggling. The former have no natural predators and outcompete the latter for food (and, very occasionally, just eat hedgehogs). People bemoan the declining hedgehog numbers but whine loudly if any action to control badger numbers is raised.

    There is a wider debate we ought to have about stewardship of the natural world. Are we aiming to preserve the status quo in aspic? Should we let species go extinct if it's for natural reasons? When should we reintroduce species and when shouldn't we?

    Some have proposed wolf or lynx reintroductions to the UK in order to control deer numbers. That's likely a good idea but I pity the politicians, because at some point someone will undoubtedly suffer a bite or suchlike (even if it's their own damned fault) and the politician who gave the nod will get it in the neck.

    Indeed. The re-introduction, or otherwise, of the Lynx is a surprisingly hot topic in these parts. It hasn't happened so far. Hence, a deer cull is planned.
    Venison will be cheap and plentiful mind.
    I’ve always thought venison was a little dear.

    (That’s a joke that only works if you say it out loud)
    C'mon buck up! Out with the crap jokes.
    Don't be too hart on him.
    All this joking is making me horny.
  • Listening to Andrea Jenkyns on Sky you just have to wonder how on earth she beat Ed Balls.

    She is clueless

    She won thanks to the campaigning skills of David Herdson and myself.

    It is probably the worst thing I’ve done in my life.
    Cheers. I was trying to forget that.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    If Tezza brokers a deal that keeps us in the CU and offers stability and certainty for business and employees, nobody is going to be listening to sinister wreckers like Johnson and Rees anymore. And her polling will rapidly rise.

    I don't agree.

    Given the way public opinion baulked at Chequers' 'facilitated customs arrangement', keeping us in the CU either permanently (or as good as permanently if the exit isn't unilaterally achievable), and therefore abdicating our trade and customs policy to a foreign power, will go down like a bucket of cold sick.

    I also think there will be a challenge from the cabinet if this is the outcome.
    Yes, Mortimer, the bloke on the internet who flogs old books, doesn't agree. But we all knew that anyway.

    We'll see about the rest of the country.
    And we all knew that the bloke on the internet who keeps forgetting his passwords wants to remain in the Customs Union, but you still keep reminding us.

    @BigG - when chequers was published polling on it was dire, as was cabinet and backbench reaction. Just don't see how something that is more of a compromise will fly...
    We'll see who is right.
  • Pulpstar said:

    welshowl said:

    felix said:

    dixiedean said:

    King Cole, the badgers have moved the goalposts.

    As an aside, badgers are a prime reason hedgehogs are struggling. The former have no natural predators and outcompete the latter for food (and, very occasionally, just eat hedgehogs). People bemoan the declining hedgehog numbers but whine loudly if any action to control badger numbers is raised.

    There is a wider debate we ought to have about stewardship of the natural world. Are we aiming to preserve the status quo in aspic? Should we let species go extinct if it's for natural reasons? When should we reintroduce species and when shouldn't we?

    Some have proposed wolf or lynx reintroductions to the UK in order to control deer numbers. That's likely a good idea but I pity the politicians, because at some point someone will undoubtedly suffer a bite or suchlike (even if it's their own damned fault) and the politician who gave the nod will get it in the neck.

    Indeed. The re-introduction, or otherwise, of the Lynx is a surprisingly hot topic in these parts. It hasn't happened so far. Hence, a deer cull is planned.
    Venison will be cheap and plentiful mind.
    I’ve always thought venison was a little dear.

    (That’s a joke that only works if you say it out loud)
    C'mon buck up! Out with the crap jokes.
    Don't be too hart on him.
    This thread seems to be stuck in a rut.
    It's tine to move on.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202
    felix said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris says the delay is just theatre and a Deal will be reached keeping the UK in the Customs Union and as a colony of the EU and we should switch to 'super Canada'

    https://mobile.twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1062289237553410048

    He is really a nasty piece of work and I would switch my vote for the first time ever if he was the party leader. To call him scum demeans the word.
    He is saying what a lot of Leavers, Tory members and voters and Kippers think though
  • Listening to Andrea Jenkyns on Sky you just have to wonder how on earth she beat Ed Balls.

    She is clueless

    She won thanks to the campaigning skills of David Herdson and myself.

    It is probably the worst thing I’ve done in my life.
    Out of interest, had you not realised quite how useless she was at the time? :wink:
    To be fair, she was (and is) quite a good campaigner and is an optimistic and enthusiastic personality. It's only really with Brexit where she's lost all touch with reality.
  • FE: BBC's showing Formula E live next year, for those interested.

    https://twitter.com/robwattsf1/status/1062302518942859265

    Well, until they piss away millions on a semi-identical music 'talent' show format, obviously.

    Racing helps move the technology forward - hope it's fun to watch too.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris says the delay is just theatre and a Deal will be reached keeping the UK in the Customs Union and as a colony of the EU and we should switch to 'super Canada'

    https://mobile.twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1062289237553410048

    He is really a nasty piece of work and I would switch my vote for the first time ever if he was the party leader. To call him scum demeans the word.
    He is saying what a lot of Leavers, Tory members and voters and Kippers think though
    QED.
  • Pulpstar said:

    welshowl said:

    felix said:

    dixiedean said:

    King Cole, the badgers have moved the goalposts.

    As an aside, badgers are a prime reason hedgehogs are struggling. The former have no natural predators and outcompete the latter for food (and, very occasionally, just eat hedgehogs). People bemoan the declining hedgehog numbers but whine loudly if any action to control badger numbers is raised.

    There is a wider debate we ought to have about stewardship of the natural world. Are we aiming to preserve the status quo in aspic? Should we let species go extinct if it's for natural reasons? When should we reintroduce species and when shouldn't we?

    Some have proposed wolf or lynx reintroductions to the UK in order to control deer numbers. That's likely a good idea but I pity the politicians, because at some point someone will undoubtedly suffer a bite or suchlike (even if it's their own damned fault) and the politician who gave the nod will get it in the neck.

    Indeed. The re-introduction, or otherwise, of the Lynx is a surprisingly hot topic in these parts. It hasn't happened so far. Hence, a deer cull is planned.
    Venison will be cheap and plentiful mind.
    I’ve always thought venison was a little dear.

    (That’s a joke that only works if you say it out loud)
    C'mon buck up! Out with the crap jokes.
    Don't be too hart on him.
    This thread seems to be stuck in a rut.
    Ideas run fallow?
  • Mr. Ace, cheers, I'll keep an eye out for that market.

    Mr. Song, I've only seen a handful of races. Riyadh's pretty controversial, though, as a venue.

    Racing was fairly entertaining.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,677

    Listening to Andrea Jenkyns on Sky you just have to wonder how on earth she beat Ed Balls.

    She is clueless

    She won thanks to the campaigning skills of David Herdson and myself.

    It is probably the worst thing I’ve done in my life.
    Out of interest, had you not realised quite how useless she was at the time? :wink:
    To be fair, she was (and is) quite a good campaigner and is an optimistic and enthusiastic personality. It's only really with Brexit where she's lost all touch with reality.
    Your Jared O'Mara.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    Looks like Hoey will be voting down the deal then. For completely different reasons to most of her fellow Labour MPs - but the result is the same.
    Nothing gets through parliament I think.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389
    Jonathan said:

    Listening to Andrea Jenkyns on Sky you just have to wonder how on earth she beat Ed Balls.

    She is clueless

    She won thanks to the campaigning skills of David Herdson and myself.

    It is probably the worst thing I’ve done in my life.
    Out of interest, had you not realised quite how useless she was at the time? :wink:
    To be fair, she was (and is) quite a good campaigner and is an optimistic and enthusiastic personality. It's only really with Brexit where she's lost all touch with reality.
    Your Jared O'Mara.
    Jared O'Mara is in a league of his own.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,677
    Scott_P said:
    We are governed by morons. Some of it is totally unforgivable IMO.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,389
    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    We are governed by morons. Some of it is totally unforgivable IMO.
    I don't think that Fintan O'Toole understands the British.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    HYUFD said:

    Again Ojeda actually needs to get elected to Congress or a governorship before running for President

    Trump didn't
    Traditionally you need Executive experience or Foreign Affairs - hence Governor or Senator (Congress is rare).

    Trump arguably had executive experience from his business (although very different) and plenty of experience of foreign affairs.

    Ahem. *blushes-*
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,301

    Pulpstar said:

    welshowl said:

    felix said:

    dixiedean said:

    King Cole, the badgers have moved the goalposts.

    As an aside, badgers are a prime reason hedgehogs are struggling. The former have no natural predators and outcompete the latter for food (and, very occasionally, just eat hedgehogs). People bemoan the declining hedgehog numbers but whine loudly if any action to control badger numbers is raised.

    There is a wider debate we ought to have about stewardship of the natural world. Are we aiming to preserve the status quo in aspic? Should we let species go extinct if it's for natural reasons? When should we reintroduce species and when shouldn't we?

    Some have proposed wolf or lynx reintroductions to the UK in order to control deer numbers. That's likely a good idea but I pity the politicians, because at some point someone will undoubtedly suffer a bite or suchlike (even if it's their own damned fault) and the politician who gave the nod will get it in the neck.

    Indeed. The re-introduction, or otherwise, of the Lynx is a surprisingly hot topic in these parts. It hasn't happened so far. Hence, a deer cull is planned.
    Venison will be cheap and plentiful mind.
    I’ve always thought venison was a little dear.

    (That’s a joke that only works if you say it out loud)
    C'mon buck up! Out with the crap jokes.
    Don't be too hart on him.
    This thread seems to be stuck in a rut.
    Ideas run fallow?
    Stagnation

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202
    edited November 2018
    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Again Ojeda actually needs to get elected to Congress or a governorship before running for President

    Trump didn't
    Traditionally you need Executive experience or Foreign Affairs - hence Governor or Senator (Congress is rare).

    Trump arguably had executive experience from his business (although very different) and plenty of experience of foreign affairs.

    Ahem. *blushes-*
    The only Presidents since WW2 who were not in Congress, Vice President or a Governor beforehand were Eisenhower, who was Supreme Commander of Allied Forces in Europe and Trump who was a billionaire and Apprentice host. Exceptional cases both and both already had huge name recognition before running
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris says the delay is just theatre and a Deal will be reached keeping the UK in the Customs Union and as a colony of the EU and we should switch to 'super Canada'

    https://mobile.twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1062289237553410048

    He is really a nasty piece of work and I would switch my vote for the first time ever if he was the party leader. To call him scum demeans the word.
    He is saying what a lot of Leavers, Tory members and voters and Kippers think though
    Tory members remind me these days of Labour members - nasty, unpleasant extremists.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202
    Pulpstar said:

    Looks like Hoey will be voting down the deal then. For completely different reasons to most of her fellow Labour MPs - but the result is the same.
    Nothing gets through parliament I think.

    Hoey will as she is a Leave means Leaver but Nandy, Flint, Snell, LD MP Stephen Lloyd etc have all said they will back a Customs Union Deal Withdrawal Agreement Deal by May
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    Pulpstar said:

    welshowl said:

    felix said:

    dixiedean said:

    King Cole, the badgers have moved the goalposts.

    As an aside, badgers are a prime reason hedgehogs are struggling. The former have no natural predators and outcompete the latter for food (and, very occasionally, just eat hedgehogs). People bemoan the declining hedgehog numbers but whine loudly if any action to control badger numbers is raised.

    There is a wider debate we ought to have about stewardship of the natural world. Are we aiming to preserve the status quo in aspic? Should we let species go extinct if it's for natural reasons? When should we reintroduce species and when shouldn't we?

    Some have proposed wolf or lynx reintroductions to the UK in order to control deer numbers. That's likely a good idea but I pity the politicians, because at some point someone will undoubtedly suffer a bite or suchlike (even if it's their own damned fault) and the politician who gave the nod will get it in the neck.

    Indeed. The re-introduction, or otherwise, of the Lynx is a surprisingly hot topic in these parts. It hasn't happened so far. Hence, a deer cull is planned.
    Venison will be cheap and plentiful mind.
    I’ve always thought venison was a little dear.

    (That’s a joke that only works if you say it out loud)
    C'mon buck up! Out with the crap jokes.
    Don't be too hart on him.
    This thread seems to be stuck in a rut.
    Ideas run fallow?
    Happens out in the glens.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Predictions for our great national hecatomb:

    1. May will get a deal that involves staying in the/a CU.
    2. There will be a few flaccid resignations from the type of moron who think's they've got a shot after the fall of May (Mordaunt, etc.)
    3. There are enough Labour rebels/abstentions to get it through parliament.
    4. The UK becomes the EU's version of American Samoa.
  • Jonathan said:

    Listening to Andrea Jenkyns on Sky you just have to wonder how on earth she beat Ed Balls.

    She is clueless

    She won thanks to the campaigning skills of David Herdson and myself.

    It is probably the worst thing I’ve done in my life.
    Out of interest, had you not realised quite how useless she was at the time? :wink:
    To be fair, she was (and is) quite a good campaigner and is an optimistic and enthusiastic personality. It's only really with Brexit where she's lost all touch with reality.
    Your Jared O'Mara.
    No, she's not that bad; not by a long way.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,748
    Once a definitive Brexit deal has been agreed, then Boris Johnson's mythical SuperCanada strawman will be no more. That will free him up to argue for a second referendum in which he will back Remain.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    currystar said:

    Scott_P said:
    What does this even mean? Revenue per employee or something?
    How can that be improved? Is this a symptom of UK businesses aversion to capital investment as opposed to simply hiring more people?
    It doesn't matter, Scott thinks its bad new so he retweets it
    Unusual for the ONS to use the word "only":

    https://twitter.com/ONS/status/1062280559911714817
    I wonder if you put the recent general election dates on that chart whether it suggests that Cameron's victory in 2015 owed a lot to Osborne's timing - and May's shambles in 2017 was not only because she ran a bad campaign.
    I'm not sure how much credit George should get for the collapse in the oil price.
    But he is responsible for the preceding collapse in tax revenue from the North Sea.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628
    Pulpstar said:

    welshowl said:

    felix said:

    dixiedean said:

    King Cole, the badgers have moved the goalposts.

    As an aside, badgers are a prime reason hedgehogs are struggling. The former have no natural predators and outcompete the latter for food (and, very occasionally, just eat hedgehogs). People bemoan the declining hedgehog numbers but whine loudly if any action to control badger numbers is raised.

    There is a wider debate we ought to have about stewardship of the natural world. Are we aiming to preserve the status quo in aspic? Should we let species go extinct if it's for natural reasons? When should we reintroduce species and when shouldn't we?

    Some have proposed wolf or lynx reintroductions to the UK in order to control deer numbers. That's likely a good idea but I pity the politicians, because at some point someone will undoubtedly suffer a bite or suchlike (even if it's their own damned fault) and the politician who gave the nod will get it in the neck.

    Indeed. The re-introduction, or otherwise, of the Lynx is a surprisingly hot topic in these parts. It hasn't happened so far. Hence, a deer cull is planned.
    Venison will be cheap and plentiful mind.
    I’ve always thought venison was a little dear.

    (That’s a joke that only works if you say it out loud)
    C'mon buck up! Out with the crap jokes.
    Don't be too hart on him.
    This thread seems to be stuck in a rut.
    Well, we've covered sixteen points....
  • Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    We are governed by morons. Some of it is totally unforgivable IMO.
    I don't think that Fintan O'Toole understands the British.
    It can't be denied that a wide range of Leavers have been either dishonest, disingenuous, simple-minded or just plain ignorant. I'm a charitable man and I'm willing to assume that the bulk of them come into the last category.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628
    dixiedean said:

    Danny565 said:

    Anazina said:

    Listening to Andrea Jenkyns on Sky you just have to wonder how on earth she beat Ed Balls.

    She is clueless

    She won thanks to the campaigning skills of David Herdson and myself.

    It is probably the worst thing I’ve done in my life.
    Out of interest, had you not realised quite how useless she was at the time? :wink:
    Met her once and she seemed shy more than anything, sadly like too many Tories she’s become infected by Brexitis.

    I was mostly campaigning for the wonderful Stuart Andrew in Pudsey but the opportunity to take down Ed Balls was too good to turn down.

    Plus I wanted to do the ‘Balls deep in trouble’ headline for PB on election night.
    I have never grasped the opprobrium some direct at Ed Balls. He is a good guy. Sensible, moderate, tough and competent. We need more people like him in politics, not fewer.
    He was Gordon Brown’s consigliere for over a decade.

    If you think Tories say some rude things about him you should hear what Labour folk privately say about him.

    Remember he was Ed Miliband’s third choice to be Shadow Chancellor.
    He was also incredibly unpopular with the public.

    Remember his approval ratings were usually below even Ed Miliband's (which is saying something).
    However, so was Portillo. Having seen a more human side of him helps greatly in public perception.
    But only once you've left politics.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,677
    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    We are governed by morons. Some of it is totally unforgivable IMO.
    I don't think that Fintan O'Toole understands the British.
    That's as maybe, but the stuff Brady said about NI and the stuff Raab said about Dover is mind boggling stupidity and unforgivable.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,504
    Dura_Ace said:

    Predictions for our great national hecatomb:

    1. May will get a deal that involves staying in the/a CU.
    2. There will be a few flaccid resignations from the type of moron who think's they've got a shot after the fall of May (Mordaunt, etc.)
    3. There are enough Labour rebels/abstentions to get it through parliament.
    4. The UK becomes the EU's version of American Samoa.

    Dura_Ace said:

    Predictions for our great national hecatomb:

    1. May will get a deal that involves staying in the/a CU.
    2. There will be a few flaccid resignations from the type of moron who think's they've got a shot after the fall of May (Mordaunt, etc.)
    3. There are enough Labour rebels/abstentions to get it through parliament.
    4. The UK becomes the EU's version of American Samoa.

    Sounds about right. And gives a good chance to say 'sorry, can we can come back' in a few years.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    Jonathan said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    We are governed by morons. Some of it is totally unforgivable IMO.
    I don't think that Fintan O'Toole understands the British.
    That's as maybe, but the stuff Brady said about NI and the stuff Raab said about Dover is mind boggling stupidity and unforgivable.
    I don't recall Brady saying much recently, on anything.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    Jonathan said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    We are governed by morons. Some of it is totally unforgivable IMO.
    I don't think that Fintan O'Toole understands the British.
    That's as maybe, but the stuff Brady said about NI and the stuff Raab said about Dover is mind boggling stupidity and unforgivable.
    Hardly on the same level as, for example, signing up to a new EU treaty which a manifesto promised a ref. on, or, say, invading a middle eastern country...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    Dura_Ace said:

    Predictions for our great national hecatomb:

    1. May will get a deal that involves staying in the/a CU.
    2. There will be a few flaccid resignations from the type of moron who think's they've got a shot after the fall of May (Mordaunt, etc.)
    3. There are enough Labour rebels/abstentions to get it through parliament.
    4. The UK becomes the EU's version of American Samoa.

    I agree with points 1 and 2, point 3 looks optimistic to me right now.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,202

    Once a definitive Brexit deal has been agreed, then Boris Johnson's mythical SuperCanada strawman will be no more. That will free him up to argue for a second referendum in which he will back Remain.

    His brother is already arguing for that, though he may shift to Super Canada for GB if no alternative post Deal
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Mortimer said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    We are governed by morons. Some of it is totally unforgivable IMO.
    I don't think that Fintan O'Toole understands the British.
    That's as maybe, but the stuff Brady said about NI and the stuff Raab said about Dover is mind boggling stupidity and unforgivable.
    Hardly on the same level as, for example, signing up to a new EU treaty which a manifesto promised a ref. on, or, say, invading a middle eastern country...
    Whataboutery of the highest order.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Pulpstar said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    We are governed by morons. Some of it is totally unforgivable IMO.
    I don't think that Fintan O'Toole understands the British.
    That's as maybe, but the stuff Brady said about NI and the stuff Raab said about Dover is mind boggling stupidity and unforgivable.
    I don't recall Brady saying much recently, on anything.

    You should write him a letter.
  • Jonathan said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    We are governed by morons. Some of it is totally unforgivable IMO.
    I don't think that Fintan O'Toole understands the British.
    That's as maybe, but the stuff Brady said about NI and the stuff Raab said about Dover is mind boggling stupidity and unforgivable.
    Raab's comment was just politically stupid. I bet most people wouldn't be able to accurately guess how much UK-continent trade comes through Dover - though saying what he did, how he did, left himself open to ridicule. Brady's statement, by contrast, was indefensible on any level.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,220
    Anazina said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    We are governed by morons. Some of it is totally unforgivable IMO.
    I don't think that Fintan O'Toole understands the British.
    That's as maybe, but the stuff Brady said about NI and the stuff Raab said about Dover is mind boggling stupidity and unforgivable.
    I don't recall Brady saying much recently, on anything.

    You should write him a letter.
    I'll ask him if he thinks he can win a 6th Lombardi trophy.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,748
    Macron has really got under Trump's skin.

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1062331024426913792
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited November 2018
    13: 19 Starmer says Labour accepts the convention that in normal circumstances government legal advice should not be published.

    But he says there are four reasons why that does not apply in this case.

    First, this situation is exceptional, he says. He says there is precedent for publishing legal advice in exceptional circumstances.

    Second, he says this is general legal advice.

    Third, he says the way legal privilege applies to advice from government law officers is different from the way it applies to advice from other lawyers.

    And, fourth, he says the government should not be allowed to show its legal advice selectively to just some MPs.


    That's a feeble set of reasons for not following the normal convention. All four arguments could be said to apply to almost any example.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/nov/13/brexit-deal-within-next-48-hours-still-possible-but-not-at-all-definite-says-lidington-politics-live
  • Mr. P, voting Remain in a second referendum was 8 just this morning.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    We are governed by morons. Some of it is totally unforgivable IMO.
    I don't think that Fintan O'Toole understands the British.
    I suspect Fintan O'Toole understands some Britons better than they are willing to admit to.
  • Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    We are governed by morons. Some of it is totally unforgivable IMO.
    I don't think that Fintan O'Toole understands the British.
    What is it that he's not understanding about 'the British' (whomsoverer they may be)?
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Jonathan said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    We are governed by morons. Some of it is totally unforgivable IMO.
    I don't think that Fintan O'Toole understands the British.
    That's as maybe, but the stuff Brady said about NI and the stuff Raab said about Dover is mind boggling stupidity and unforgivable.
    Raab's comment was just politically stupid. I bet most people wouldn't be able to accurately guess how much UK-continent trade comes through Dover - though saying what he did, how he did, left himself open to ridicule. Brady's statement, by contrast, was indefensible on any level.
    I think we mean Bradley here – as in Karen – don't we?

    Graham Brady has said the square root of sod all, unless it is NFL quarterback Tom Brady we are talking about, the NFL quarterback to whom @Pulpstar is alluding.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited November 2018
    Scott_P said:
    Tomorrow IS Weds?

    These clueless journalists literally don't know what the day of the week is... :D
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,504
    Purely as a metter of interest (I'm planning a talk on US wines) what is the European (I assume) tariff on wines?
  • 13: 19 Starmer says Labour accepts the convention that in normal circumstances government legal advice should not be published.

    But he says there are four reasons why that does not apply in this case.

    First, this situation is exceptional, he says. He says there is precedent for publishing legal advice in exceptional circumstances.

    Second, he says this is general legal advice.

    Third, he says the way legal privilege applies to advice from government law officers is different from the way it applies to advice from other lawyers.

    And, fourth, he says the government should not be allowed to show its legal advice selectively to just some MPs.


    That's a feeble set of reasons for not following the normal convention. All four arguments could be said to apply to almost any example.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/nov/13/brexit-deal-within-next-48-hours-still-possible-but-not-at-all-definite-says-lidington-politics-live

    The best reason is the simplest. The country is going through an irrevocable and long term change that affects everyone who lives in it. Everyone is entitled to understand the basis on which that change is being undertaken.
  • Anazina said:

    Jonathan said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    We are governed by morons. Some of it is totally unforgivable IMO.
    I don't think that Fintan O'Toole understands the British.
    That's as maybe, but the stuff Brady said about NI and the stuff Raab said about Dover is mind boggling stupidity and unforgivable.
    Raab's comment was just politically stupid. I bet most people wouldn't be able to accurately guess how much UK-continent trade comes through Dover - though saying what he did, how he did, left himself open to ridicule. Brady's statement, by contrast, was indefensible on any level.
    I think we mean Bradley here – as in Karen – don't we?

    Graham Brady has said the square root of sod all, unless it is NFL quarterback Tom Brady we are talking about, the NFL quarterback to whom @Pulpstar is alluding.
    Maybe they meant Brady's statement that he did have 48 letters in his drawer.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Purely as a metter of interest (I'm planning a talk on US wines) what is the European (I assume) tariff on wines?
    How does Trumpton know about the relative merits of French and US wine? He is teetotal.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    edited November 2018

    13: 19
    That's a feeble set of reasons for not following the normal convention. All four arguments could be said to apply to almost any example.

    The best reason is that everyone strongly expects May is lying through her teeth, and it's very much in the national interest to expose that lie if possible.

    Or, as is more likely, force her to ignore the vote, thus essentially confirming everyone's already fairly strong conviction that she's trying to pull as fast one.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    We are governed by morons. Some of it is totally unforgivable IMO.
    I don't think that Fintan O'Toole understands the British.
    What is it that he's not understanding about 'the British' (whomsoverer they may be)?
    O'Toole's piece is superb. I think he understands 'The British' well enough.
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,179
    edited November 2018
    Is it too late to ask Barnier, Merkel and Macron if we can just have the things they wouldn't let Cameron have, put it to a vote, and we'll stay put?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,748
    Pulpstar said:
    He's completely lost it.

    I can understand why because Macron's comments about a European army are a complete repudiation of what Trump has believed for 40 years - namely that the US could bully its allies into subsidising its military for 'protection'.
  • 13: 19 Starmer says Labour accepts the convention that in normal circumstances government legal advice should not be published.

    But he says there are four reasons why that does not apply in this case.

    First, this situation is exceptional, he says. He says there is precedent for publishing legal advice in exceptional circumstances.

    Second, he says this is general legal advice.

    Third, he says the way legal privilege applies to advice from government law officers is different from the way it applies to advice from other lawyers.

    And, fourth, he says the government should not be allowed to show its legal advice selectively to just some MPs.


    That's a feeble set of reasons for not following the normal convention. All four arguments could be said to apply to almost any example.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/nov/13/brexit-deal-within-next-48-hours-still-possible-but-not-at-all-definite-says-lidington-politics-live

    The best reason is the simplest. The country is going through an irrevocable and long term change that affects everyone who lives in it. Everyone is entitled to understand the basis on which that change is being undertaken.
    There's just been an interesting intervention by Anna Soubry, saying the Keir Starmer in his speech is asking for something different from what the motion says. She has a point: the motion talks about "any legal advice in full, including that provided by the attorney general, on the proposed withdrawal agreement", but Starmer said that Labour wants the “final” legal advice to be published.

    Still, this is all shadow boxing.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628

    Is it too late to ask Barnier, Merkel and Macron if we can just have the things they wouldn't let Cameron have, put it to a vote, and we'll stay put?

    Why would they? May is probably about to give them something better....
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234

    Is it too late to ask Barnier, Merkel and Macron if we can just have the things they wouldn't let Cameron have, put it to a vote, and we'll stay put?

    The EU27 has the UK bleeding on the ropes, semi-conscious and missing eight front teeth. You might expect the ref to end the bout, but you certainly wouldn't expect this to be the time for Barnier Fury to pull his punches.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    13: 19 Starmer says Labour accepts the convention that in normal circumstances government legal advice should not be published.

    But he says there are four reasons why that does not apply in this case.

    First, this situation is exceptional, he says. He says there is precedent for publishing legal advice in exceptional circumstances.

    Second, he says this is general legal advice.

    Third, he says the way legal privilege applies to advice from government law officers is different from the way it applies to advice from other lawyers.

    And, fourth, he says the government should not be allowed to show its legal advice selectively to just some MPs.


    That's a feeble set of reasons for not following the normal convention. All four arguments could be said to apply to almost any example.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/nov/13/brexit-deal-within-next-48-hours-still-possible-but-not-at-all-definite-says-lidington-politics-live

    Almost as if he was a member of the Opposition.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Is it too late to ask Barnier, Merkel and Macron if we can just have the things they wouldn't let Cameron have, put it to a vote, and we'll stay put?

    The EU27 has the UK bleeding on the ropes, semi-conscious and missing eight front teeth. You might expect the ref to end the bout, but you certainly wouldn't expect this to be the time for Barnier Fury to pull his punches.
    For all the difficulties the UK is having we're in a far better position than Barnier or Macron are. The EU had their chance to keep us inside the club and they blew it.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234



    Still, this is all shadow boxing.

    Labour is attempting a pigfucker gambit on May, and the ERG are going to help them do it.
  • isn't tomorrow Wednesday?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    Purely as a metter of interest (I'm planning a talk on US wines) what is the European (I assume) tariff on wines?
    gavinquinney.com/2018/06/29/debunking-brexit-twaddle-about-eu-wine-tariffs/
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,819
    I'm intrigued that all the focus on Raabs' speech was on his comments on Dover. I've seen nothing on his comments that showed he appeared not to understand JIT. Does that show how superficial our reporting has become?

    Watched Grant Shapps on Politics Live yesterday and, I can't believe I'm saying this, but he was talking an awful lot of sense. Is it a case that many only look idiots when they have to do stuff and find it is just too difficult.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    Brom said:

    Is it too late to ask Barnier, Merkel and Macron if we can just have the things they wouldn't let Cameron have, put it to a vote, and we'll stay put?

    The EU27 has the UK bleeding on the ropes, semi-conscious and missing eight front teeth. You might expect the ref to end the bout, but you certainly wouldn't expect this to be the time for Barnier Fury to pull his punches.
    For all the difficulties the UK is having we're in a far better position than Barnier or Macron are. The EU had their chance to keep us inside the club and they blew it.
    Huh? Barnier is now nailed-on favourite to be the Parliament's candidate for the next commission president. The sheer brutal efficiency with which he has deflated decades of Tory pomposity with his shiny prick of truth has made him look an absolute beast.
  • Has anybody taken the time to try to work out the relevant numbers across the House of Commons for each of the possible Brexit options.
    For example is there a majority of MPs (ignoring their party affiliation) for

    Chequers,
    Crash Out,
    New Referendum

    or anything else?
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    Brom said:

    Is it too late to ask Barnier, Merkel and Macron if we can just have the things they wouldn't let Cameron have, put it to a vote, and we'll stay put?

    The EU27 has the UK bleeding on the ropes, semi-conscious and missing eight front teeth. You might expect the ref to end the bout, but you certainly wouldn't expect this to be the time for Barnier Fury to pull his punches.
    For all the difficulties the UK is having we're in a far better position than Barnier or Macron are. The EU had their chance to keep us inside the club and they blew it.
    Huh? Barnier is now nailed-on favourite to be the Parliament's candidate for the next commission president. The sheer brutal efficiency with which he has deflated decades of Tory pomposity with his shiny prick of truth has made him look an absolute beast.
    Clearly someone wasn't watching when his speech was ignored by the European bigshots last week. Pretty humiliating.
  • TOPPING said:

    13: 19 Starmer says Labour accepts the convention that in normal circumstances government legal advice should not be published.

    But he says there are four reasons why that does not apply in this case.

    First, this situation is exceptional, he says. He says there is precedent for publishing legal advice in exceptional circumstances.

    Second, he says this is general legal advice.

    Third, he says the way legal privilege applies to advice from government law officers is different from the way it applies to advice from other lawyers.

    And, fourth, he says the government should not be allowed to show its legal advice selectively to just some MPs.


    That's a feeble set of reasons for not following the normal convention. All four arguments could be said to apply to almost any example.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/nov/13/brexit-deal-within-next-48-hours-still-possible-but-not-at-all-definite-says-lidington-politics-live

    Almost as if he was a member of the Opposition.
    True, but I'm surprised that with his CV he wasn't able to sound more convincing.
  • A 538 post-midterm Dem primary draft at the end of this podcast: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/politics-podcast-a-post-midterms-2020-draft-live/

    Asterisks imply a bit of potential value, if you buy their collective wisdom:

    1. Warren*
    2. Biden*
    3. Harris
    4. Klobuchar*
    5. O'Rourke
    6. Gillibrand
    7. Booker
    8. Sanders
    9. Gillum*
    10. Hickenlooper
    11. Bloomberg
    12. Buttigieg

    Notable omissions (based on betfair): Gabbard, Brown
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,504
    TOPPING said:

    Purely as a metter of interest (I'm planning a talk on US wines) what is the European (I assume) tariff on wines?
    gavinquinney.com/2018/06/29/debunking-brexit-twaddle-about-eu-wine-tariffs/
    Much obliged.
  • Trump vs Macron -- in the context of Trump's surrounding tweets extending aid to California, home of wildfires and vineyards, this might not be just about France.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Anazina said:

    Sean_F said:

    Jonathan said:

    Scott_P said:
    We are governed by morons. Some of it is totally unforgivable IMO.
    I don't think that Fintan O'Toole understands the British.
    What is it that he's not understanding about 'the British' (whomsoverer they may be)?
    O'Toole's piece is superb. I think he understands 'The British' well enough.
    "This is the purest form of ignorance: it’s not just that you don’t know, but that you don’t even know that you’re meant to know. "

    That quote is almost Rumsfeldian in tone :)

    It is a good article and sums up the "skills" of our Leaders perfectly.
This discussion has been closed.