DD was being touted as a caretaker PM about 3 weeks ago. Which might have actually been 15 minutes or a year due to Brexit time dilation effects.
The comments from Raab and Davis in this thread show perfectly the combination of ignorance, arrogance and lack of realism which pervades the whole Leave prospectus. It's beyond believe that Raab can claim he did not know how dependent the UK is on cross-channel trade and Davis's lack of self-awareness is staggering - the idea that this man is a serious leadership contender shows is symptomatic of the fantasy world in which most senior politicians seem to exist these days.
As we know, our Bucanneers had years and years to learn about all the issues. Not one of them could be arsed to do it.
The assault on Scruton is interesting. Most of the screen grabs seem to end at very strange points halfway through sentences or paragraphs. They are certainly trying quite hard.
Fox hunting? Meh.
Statement from Professor Sir Roger Scruton:
“Following my appointment as the unpaid chairman of the Government’s advisory committee on Building Better, Building Beautiful, I have been offended and hurt by suggestions I am anti-Semitic or in any way ‘Islamophobic’.
“Nothing could be further from the truth, and I wish to rebut these incorrect assertions...”
The next assault on him will be his views on date rape.
It is all very depressing. All of us are a mixture of good and bad. The very same people who refuse to accept any fault at all in Corbyn over his attitudes to Jews and anti-semitism are all too willing to lob accusations of fascism and anti-semitism at people for not sharing a "received opinion". Most of the people who make these sorts of accusations are almost certainly guilty of the same sort of behaviour they condemn. Look at the vegan lady who received those stupid emails from the Waitrose editor. It turned out that she said "Good!" when seven people died in a Spanish bull run. Celebrating the death of people is, IMO, far more worthy of condemnation than an utterly bad taste joke. Why is it any less worthy of condemnation, for instance, than those idiots burning a model Grenfell Tower last week?
This sort of behaviour is utterly infantile, quite frightening in its implications and far too similar to the sort of behaviour exhibited like Trump for comfort.
I tend to agree. If the post to which he was being appointed had anything to do with social policy, I could entirely understand why he might be thought a totally unsuitable choice. His is, to put it politely, a bit of a plonker, with decidedly eccentric, and erratically argued philosophical views. But the built environment ? https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/753671/Building_Better_Commission_Submission_-_ToR.pdf I'm not sure how much of an expert he is on this, but he has at least published on the subject, albeit quite some time ago. Set against that, surely the chair of anything has to be some sort of consensus figure, and I can see the argument for his not being a great choice to lead something like this, as opposed to contribute to it.
Having Toby Young (who started ranting paranoically about 'Maoists') on R4 this morning as your advocate probably doesn't help.
The assault on Scruton is interesting. Most of the screen grabs seem to end at very strange points halfway through sentences or paragraphs. They are certainly trying quite hard.
Fox hunting? Meh.
Statement from Professor Sir Roger Scruton:
“Following my appointment as the unpaid chairman of the Government’s advisory committee on Building Better, Building Beautiful, I have been offended and hurt by suggestions I am anti-Semitic or in any way ‘Islamophobic’.
“Nothing could be further from the truth, and I wish to rebut these incorrect assertions...”
The next assault on him will be his views on date rape.
This sort of behaviour is utterly infantile, quite frightening in its implications and far too similar to the sort of behaviour exhibited like Trump for comfort.
I tend to agree. If the post to which he was being appointed had anything to do with social policy, I could entirely understand why he might be thought a totally unsuitable choice. His is, to put it politely, a bit of a plonker, with decidedly eccentric, and erratically argued philosophical views. But the built environment ? https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/753671/Building_Better_Commission_Submission_-_ToR.pdf I'm not sure how much of an expert he is on this, but he has at least published on the subject, albeit quite some time ago. Set against that, surely the chair of anything has to be some sort of consensus figure, and I can see the argument for his not being a great choice to lead something like this, as opposed to contribute to it.
Having Toby Young (who started ranting paranoically about 'Maoists') on R4 this morning as your advocate probably doesn't help.
Having TY on R4 doesn't help anything very much. Apart from those suffering from unduly low blood pressure, I guess.
The EU sell us twice as much in goods as we sell them. That imbalance accounts for the whole of the UK's huge and ultimately unsustainable overall trade deficit. That is not a "success" for the UK.
Perhaps Raab does not read pb where in the past we have spoken about the need for frictionless trade, of customs unions (and "a" versus "the"), of the gravitational model of international trade, and so on and so forth. We have even often discussed how best to turn Kent into lorry parks. Personally I blame RCS for not having made videos to help the dimmer Cabinet members.
I just hope that when seen in full context, Raab was actually making fun of the headbangers. It is too depressing otherwise.
Quite how they felt running in the election would help anyone but Trump, whose environmental policies are dramatically worse than any differences they might have with the Democrats, is utterly beyond me.
DD was being touted as a caretaker PM about 3 weeks ago. Which might have actually been 15 minutes or a year due to Brexit time dilation effects.
The comments from Raab and Davis in this thread show perfectly the combination of ignorance, arrogance and lack of realism which pervades the whole Leave prospectus. It's beyond believe that Raab can claim he did not know how dependent the UK is on cross-channel trade and Davis's lack of self-awareness is staggering - the idea that this man is a serious leadership contender shows is symptomatic of the fantasy world in which most senior politicians seem to exist these days.
As we know, our Bucanneers had years and years to learn about all the issues. Not one of them could be arsed to do it.
And it's not only the buccaneers - I was at a presentation by a well-known city fund manager the other day. He gravely opined that, whilst Brexit was an economic negative, the Chequers deal would minimise the impact in sectors other than services. The fact the the EU has comprehensively rejected Chequers seemed to have passed him by.
A lot of people are going to have a very nasty shock in the next few weeks IMO.
Quite how they felt running in the election would help anyone but Trump, whose environmental policies are dramatically worse than any differences they might have with the Democrats, is utterly beyond me.
DD was being touted as a caretaker PM about 3 weeks ago. Which might have actually been 15 minutes or a year due to Brexit time dilation effects.
The comments from Raab and Davis in this thread show perfectly the combination of ignorance, arrogance and lack of realism which pervades the whole Leave prospectus. It's beyond believe that Raab can claim he did not know how dependent the UK is on cross-channel trade and Davis's lack of self-awareness is staggering - the idea that this man is a serious leadership contender shows is symptomatic of the fantasy world in which most senior politicians seem to exist these days.
As we know, our Bucanneers had years and years to learn about all the issues. Not one of them could be arsed to do it.
They hadn't quite understood that it might be important, and in any event, worrying about minor details would be pandering to Project Fear...
Perhaps Raab does not read pb where in the past we have spoken about the need for frictionless trade, of customs unions (and "a" versus "the"), of the gravitational model of international trade, and so on and so forth. We have even often discussed how best to turn Kent into lorry parks. Personally I blame RCS for not having made videos to help the dimmer Cabinet members.
I just hope that when seen in full context, Raab was actually making fun of the headbangers. It is too depressing otherwise.
Maybe routing so much freight through a single port is not a wise idea.
Perhaps Raab does not read pb where in the past we have spoken about the need for frictionless trade, of customs unions (and "a" versus "the"), of the gravitational model of international trade, and so on and so forth. We have even often discussed how best to turn Kent into lorry parks. Personally I blame RCS for not having made videos to help the dimmer Cabinet members.
I just hope that when seen in full context, Raab was actually making fun of the headbangers. It is too depressing otherwise.
Maybe routing so much freight through a single port is not a wise idea.
Well, we've got a month or two to sort that one out.
Perhaps Raab does not read pb where in the past we have spoken about the need for frictionless trade, of customs unions (and "a" versus "the"), of the gravitational model of international trade, and so on and so forth. We have even often discussed how best to turn Kent into lorry parks. Personally I blame RCS for not having made videos to help the dimmer Cabinet members.
I just hope that when seen in full context, Raab was actually making fun of the headbangers. It is too depressing otherwise.
Maybe routing so much freight through a single port is not a wise idea.
No, perhaps we could ask the Netherlands or Germany to move a bit closer so that Dover Calais is not the only short route?
He doesn't seem to understand JIT which is very worrying. Quote 'particularly for JIT goods whether it be pharmaceutical goods or perishable good like food'. Neither of those are JIT goods and although they are also important issues re timing neither (particularly pharmaceuticals) has the same time issue as JIT.
I tend to agree. If the post to which he was being appointed had anything to do with social policy, I could entirely understand why he might be thought a totally unsuitable choice. His is, to put it politely, a bit of a plonker, with decidedly eccentric, and erratically argued philosophical views. But the built environment ? https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/753671/Building_Better_Commission_Submission_-_ToR.pdf I'm not sure how much of an expert he is on this, but he has at least published on the subject, albeit quite some time ago. Set against that, surely the chair of anything has to be some sort of consensus figure, and I can see the argument for his not being a great choice to lead something like this, as opposed to contribute to it.
That last is a fair point. But then we have to be consistent. There are many people in public life who have expressed some really quite appalling views but it doesn't stop them being appointed to public positions. Sauce for the goose and all that.
Or we could be grown up and pick people who have something of value to contribute.
Personally I'm fed up with this sort of infantile behaviour. I would like those in charge to have a bit of courage when they make decisions. Do their due diligence before making appointments and then face down, if necessary, those throwing stones from glasshouses. And, if necessary, point out their own utter hypocrisy.
I have no idea whether Scruton is the right person - from an architectural perspective - to chair this committee. But his views on fox-hunting are irrelevant to that. I heard him at a recent IQ debate (on a completely different topic) and he was actually very good in the debate and helped win it.
It would also be good for government to reach out beyond the usual well-known people. I am quite certain that there must be plenty of people with real knowledge of issues who could be co-opted to share their knowledge and perspectives but who don't fall within the usual circle of suspects who seem to get picked up time after time.
Quite how they felt running in the election would help anyone but Trump, whose environmental policies are dramatically worse than any differences they might have with the Democrats, is utterly beyond me.
Perhaps Raab does not read pb where in the past we have spoken about the need for frictionless trade, of customs unions (and "a" versus "the"), of the gravitational model of international trade, and so on and so forth. We have even often discussed how best to turn Kent into lorry parks. Personally I blame RCS for not having made videos to help the dimmer Cabinet members.
I just hope that when seen in full context, Raab was actually making fun of the headbangers. It is too depressing otherwise.
Maybe routing so much freight through a single port is not a wise idea.
No, perhaps we could ask the Netherlands or Germany to move a bit closer so that Dover Calais is not the only short route?
From a strategic point of view, making use of several ports makes sense. Giving the President of France the ability to shut down a substantial part of our foreign trade was not wise.
Perhaps Raab does not read pb where in the past we have spoken about the need for frictionless trade, of customs unions (and "a" versus "the"), of the gravitational model of international trade, and so on and so forth. We have even often discussed how best to turn Kent into lorry parks. Personally I blame RCS for not having made videos to help the dimmer Cabinet members.
I just hope that when seen in full context, Raab was actually making fun of the headbangers. It is too depressing otherwise.
Maybe routing so much freight through a single port is not a wise idea.
No, perhaps we could ask the Netherlands or Germany to move a bit closer so that Dover Calais is not the only short route?
From a strategic point of view, making use of several ports makes sense. Giving the President of France the ability to shut down a substantial part of our foreign trade was not wise.
It's all Bloody Mary's fault. If it wasn't for her, we'd still have Calais.
Perhaps Raab does not read pb where in the past we have spoken about the need for frictionless trade, of customs unions (and "a" versus "the"), of the gravitational model of international trade, and so on and so forth. We have even often discussed how best to turn Kent into lorry parks. Personally I blame RCS for not having made videos to help the dimmer Cabinet members.
I just hope that when seen in full context, Raab was actually making fun of the headbangers. It is too depressing otherwise.
Maybe routing so much freight through a single port is not a wise idea.
No, perhaps we could ask the Netherlands or Germany to move a bit closer so that Dover Calais is not the only short route?
From a strategic point of view, making use of several ports makes sense. Giving the President of France the ability to shut down a substantial part of our foreign trade was not wise.
It's all Bloody Mary's fault. If it wasn't for her, we'd still have Calais.
All this could be solved by getting the French to honour the Treaty of Troyes.
Perhaps Raab does not read pb where in the past we have spoken about the need for frictionless trade, of customs unions (and "a" versus "the"), of the gravitational model of international trade, and so on and so forth. We have even often discussed how best to turn Kent into lorry parks. Personally I blame RCS for not having made videos to help the dimmer Cabinet members.
I just hope that when seen in full context, Raab was actually making fun of the headbangers. It is too depressing otherwise.
Maybe routing so much freight through a single port is not a wise idea.
No, perhaps we could ask the Netherlands or Germany to move a bit closer so that Dover Calais is not the only short route?
From a strategic point of view, making use of several ports makes sense. Giving the President of France the ability to shut down a substantial part of our foreign trade was not wise.
It’s worse than that. He’s formed a union of all our other neighbours and then tricked us into voting to leave it so that we’re isolated.
He doesn't seem to understand JIT which is very worrying. Quote 'particularly for JIT goods whether it be pharmaceutical goods or perishable good like food'. Neither of those are JIT goods and although they are also important issues re timing neither (particularly pharmaceuticals) has the same time issue as JIT.
Raab is supposed to be one of the smarter Tory Bucanneers! Can you imagine them negotiating or running anything? They are, quite literally, clueless.
Perhaps Raab does not read pb where in the past we have spoken about the need for frictionless trade, of customs unions (and "a" versus "the"), of the gravitational model of international trade, and so on and so forth. We have even often discussed how best to turn Kent into lorry parks. Personally I blame RCS for not having made videos to help the dimmer Cabinet members.
I just hope that when seen in full context, Raab was actually making fun of the headbangers. It is too depressing otherwise.
Maybe routing so much freight through a single port is not a wise idea.
No, perhaps we could ask the Netherlands or Germany to move a bit closer so that Dover Calais is not the only short route?
From a strategic point of view, making use of several ports makes sense. Giving the President of France the ability to shut down a substantial part of our foreign trade was not wise.
In fact of course we use a range of ports. This is worth a read:
He doesn't seem to understand JIT which is very worrying. Quote 'particularly for JIT goods whether it be pharmaceutical goods or perishable good like food'. Neither of those are JIT goods and although they are also important issues re timing neither (particularly pharmaceuticals) has the same time issue as JIT.
Raab is supposed to be one of the smarter Tory Bucanneers! Can you imagine them negotiating or running anything? They are, quite literally, clueless.
Was he talking at a school visit? Sounds like he's trying to explain it to a bunch of 8 year olds.
Perhaps Raab does not read pb where in the past we have spoken about the need for frictionless trade, of customs unions (and "a" versus "the"), of the gravitational model of international trade, and so on and so forth. We have even often discussed how best to turn Kent into lorry parks. Personally I blame RCS for not having made videos to help the dimmer Cabinet members.
I just hope that when seen in full context, Raab was actually making fun of the headbangers. It is too depressing otherwise.
Maybe routing so much freight through a single port is not a wise idea.
No, perhaps we could ask the Netherlands or Germany to move a bit closer so that Dover Calais is not the only short route?
From a strategic point of view, making use of several ports makes sense. Giving the President of France the ability to shut down a substantial part of our foreign trade was not wise.
It’s worse than that. He’s formed a union of all our other neighbours and then tricked us into voting to leave it so that we’re isolated.
Alternatively, one could conclude that joining a union that can do you a lot of harm if you try to leave it was not a sensible thing to do.
He doesn't seem to understand JIT which is very worrying. Quote 'particularly for JIT goods whether it be pharmaceutical goods or perishable good like food'. Neither of those are JIT goods and although they are also important issues re timing neither (particularly pharmaceuticals) has the same time issue as JIT.
Raab is supposed to be one of the smarter Tory Bucanneers! Can you imagine them negotiating or running anything? They are, quite literally, clueless.
Was he talking at a school visit? Sounds like he's trying to explain it to a bunch of 8 year olds.
Perhaps Raab does not read pb where in the past we have spoken about the need for frictionless trade, of customs unions (and "a" versus "the"), of the gravitational model of international trade, and so on and so forth. We have even often discussed how best to turn Kent into lorry parks. Personally I blame RCS for not having made videos to help the dimmer Cabinet members.
I just hope that when seen in full context, Raab was actually making fun of the headbangers. It is too depressing otherwise.
Maybe routing so much freight through a single port is not a wise idea.
No, perhaps we could ask the Netherlands or Germany to move a bit closer so that Dover Calais is not the only short route?
From a strategic point of view, making use of several ports makes sense. Giving the President of France the ability to shut down a substantial part of our foreign trade was not wise.
The President of France can’t do that while we’re in the EU.
Interestingly Tester has extended his lead beyond that which the New York Times originally predicted. It looks like his final margin will be 3.5%.
Interesting but historical news you may say - well not entirely. The Arizona race could follow the same script, with first a slightly widening GOP lead - but as the slower counting Dem city areas (The counties in Az are very large so probably not entirely homogenous) come in,... personally I think it will tighten.
I have £20 at even money on Sinema and I don't believe the bet is dead yet !
Let's see.
Arizona is very very slow at counting too so this will take a while.
In theory we could still end up with no change in the Senate, however unlikely that is.
Luddite here! How do I copy a picture into the comment box please? I used snipping tool and copy and paste, but got nowt.
IANE but... I always find it easier to post without the picture then edit your post straightaway and you get a little image icon at the top of the edit box. Click on that and you can paste the image URL into the box that pops up.
After which you just wave your magic wand while saying 'imageappeario' three times.
He doesn't seem to understand JIT which is very worrying. Quote 'particularly for JIT goods whether it be pharmaceutical goods or perishable good like food'. Neither of those are JIT goods and although they are also important issues re timing neither (particularly pharmaceuticals) has the same time issue as JIT.
Raab is supposed to be one of the smarter Tory Bucanneers! Can you imagine them negotiating or running anything? They are, quite literally, clueless.
Sadly they are currently "running" the country. Whether the country will survive the experience remains to be seen.
Still struggling with this respiratory infection but just want to say a huge thank you to all the posters who have been so kind in sending their wishes to both my wife and my recovery which slowly continues
Reading through this thread and in particular David Davis and Dominic Raabs comments just makes one despair. They just have not thought this through and it seems we are going to end up in BINO which suits no one.
Dominic Grieve on Sky this morning talking absolute sense and it does make you wonder if remain will actually win the day. I am very conflicted on the whole issue
He doesn't seem to understand JIT which is very worrying. Quote 'particularly for JIT goods whether it be pharmaceutical goods or perishable good like food'. Neither of those are JIT goods and although they are also important issues re timing neither (particularly pharmaceuticals) has the same time issue as JIT.
Raab is supposed to be one of the smarter Tory Bucanneers! Can you imagine them negotiating or running anything? They are, quite literally, clueless.
This notion that Leavers were best placed to manage Brexit because of their 'passion, commitment and belief' has been reduced to a hollow mockery. Remainers, whose legitimate concerns were based on forensic analysis and a sweeping comprehension of the problems ahead, are most qualified. Theresa, just sack Raab. Get Anna Soubry in post. Now!
Still struggling with this respiratory infection but just want to say a huge thank you to all the posters who have been so kind in sending their wishes to both my wife and my recovery which slowly continues
Reading through this thread and in particular David Davis and Dominic Raabs comments just makes one despair. They just have not thought this through and it seems we are going to end up in BINO which suits no one.
Dominic Grieve on Sky this morning talking absolute sense and it does make you wonder if remain will actually win the day. I am very conflicted on the whole issue
Despite what David Davis says, I expect that the Commons will vote in favour of the Withdrawal Agreement, because the alternatives are too unpleasant.
I know that it is deeply depressing to discover that members of the Cabinet have only just discovered we are an island.
But the news that poor Mrs Bibi is still in Pakistan - though out of prison and presumably in hiding from her own government - and not on her way to freedom (as was thought yesterday evening) is even more depressing. She faces death. We just face potential chaos, humiliation and being the butt of others' contempt and pity.
@Alistair Which side did you bet in Nevada ? I remember you advocating a position there, were you right ?
I no betted on Nevada but I had been advocating the Democrat if you were going to bet. The party registration and early vote in Clark and Washoe pointed to good Dem performance.
But...
The Republicans were trying a new turnout strategy and the polls hadn't been looking great for the Dems so that's why I'd not bet.
He doesn't seem to understand JIT which is very worrying. Quote 'particularly for JIT goods whether it be pharmaceutical goods or perishable good like food'. Neither of those are JIT goods and although they are also important issues re timing neither (particularly pharmaceuticals) has the same time issue as JIT.
Raab is supposed to be one of the smarter Tory Bucanneers! Can you imagine them negotiating or running anything? They are, quite literally, clueless.
This notion that Leavers were best placed to manage Brexit because of their 'passion, commitment and belief' has been reduced to a hollow mockery. Remainers, whose legitimate concerns were based on forensic analysis and a sweeping comprehension of the problems ahead, are most qualified. Theresa, just sack Raab. Get Anna Soubry in post. Now!
Anna Soubry is one of the biggest idiots in parliament. Even Cameron overlooked her for any decent roles.
Scroll to the bottom and go to the comment box, just above where it says 'Type your comment' there's a row of buttons, third from the right is the picture box, click that, and post the url of where your picture is, and Robert's your father's brother.
Note, make sure the url is of the website of where just the picture is displayed.
So if you wanted to use the picture atop this Telegraph article use,
The EU sell us twice as much in goods as we sell them. That imbalance accounts for the whole of the UK's huge and ultimately unsustainable overall trade deficit. That is not a "success" for the UK.
How could Ian Dunt think otherwise? Seems bizarre that these bloggers who purport to be journalists get so much attention on twitter despite having such a basic understanding of European trade.
Still struggling with this respiratory infection but just want to say a huge thank you to all the posters who have been so kind in sending their wishes to both my wife and my recovery which slowly continues
Reading through this thread and in particular David Davis and Dominic Raabs comments just makes one despair. They just have not thought this through and it seems we are going to end up in BINO which suits no one.
Dominic Grieve on Sky this morning talking absolute sense and it does make you wonder if remain will actually win the day. I am very conflicted on the whole issue
Despite what David Davis says, I expect that the Commons will vote in favour of the Withdrawal Agreement, because the alternatives are too unpleasant.
But will the Cabinet manage to vote in favour of the withdrawal agreement, with added vassalage, for that's what they will have to vote for. The EUs position is clear - an indefinite Irish backstop or no deal. Quibbling about legal advice and exact wordings will not change this fundamental.
@Alistair Which side did you bet in Nevada ? I remember you advocating a position there, were you right ?
I no betted on Nevada but I had been advocating the Democrat if you were going to bet. The party registration and early vote in Clark and Washoe pointed to good Dem performance.
But...
The Republicans were trying a new turnout strategy and the polls hadn't been looking great for the Dems so that's why I'd not bet.
@Alistair Which side did you bet in Nevada ? I remember you advocating a position there, were you right ?
I no betted on Nevada but I had been advocating the Democrat if you were going to bet. The party registration and early vote in Clark and Washoe pointed to good Dem performance.
But...
The Republicans were trying a new turnout strategy and the polls hadn't been looking great for the Dems so that's why I'd not bet.
@Alistair Which side did you bet in Nevada ? I remember you advocating a position there, were you right ?
I no betted on Nevada but I had been advocating the Democrat if you were going to bet. The party registration and early vote in Clark and Washoe pointed to good Dem performance.
But...
The Republicans were trying a new turnout strategy and the polls hadn't been looking great for the Dems so that's why I'd not bet.
Still struggling with this respiratory infection but just want to say a huge thank you to all the posters who have been so kind in sending their wishes to both my wife and my recovery which slowly continues
Reading through this thread and in particular David Davis and Dominic Raabs comments just makes one despair. They just have not thought this through and it seems we are going to end up in BINO which suits no one.
Dominic Grieve on Sky this morning talking absolute sense and it does make you wonder if remain will actually win the day. I am very conflicted on the whole issue
BINO is exactly what the referendum result implied. May should've been honest about that from day one.
Still struggling with this respiratory infection but just want to say a huge thank you to all the posters who have been so kind in sending their wishes to both my wife and my recovery which slowly continues
Reading through this thread and in particular David Davis and Dominic Raabs comments just makes one despair. They just have not thought this through and it seems we are going to end up in BINO which suits no one.
Dominic Grieve on Sky this morning talking absolute sense and it does make you wonder if remain will actually win the day. I am very conflicted on the whole issue
Despite what David Davis says, I expect that the Commons will vote in favour of the Withdrawal Agreement, because the alternatives are too unpleasant.
It's all about the Holy Trinity now: Labour leadership, ERG, & DUP. There aren't anywhere near enough (Labour) rebels to get the deal through, if all 3 vote against the Deal. Although their reasons are different, they all hate the deal enough and are entrenched to make supporting it difficult.
The one I see as impossible to budge is the Labour party; all their groundwork (6 tests etc) has been for voting against, and with no prospect of their tests being met, hatred of the Tories, and the strong movements for a 2nd vote and causing a fresh election, hard to see where any scope for compromise comes from - but the Tories might peel off a rebel or two more. Ultimately Theresa has rejected every attempt to reach out across party in negotiations, and she will reap what she has sown.
The DUP - they've folded over the budget and there are noises off, as well as distractions over the RHI enquiry now being written. I can see them finding reasons to support 'with great reluctance.'
The ERG - seem to have got more coherent over the past few weeks, even though they still don't have a plan that would survive contact outside their meetings, there are only so many pluses you can put after the word 'Canada' before it gets tricky. But there seem to be those set against, so maybe it's about May picking off individuals.
Still hard to see where that Commons majority comes from.
@Alistair Which side did you bet in Nevada ? I remember you advocating a position there, were you right ?
I no betted on Nevada but I had been advocating the Democrat if you were going to bet. The party registration and early vote in Clark and Washoe pointed to good Dem performance.
But...
The Republicans were trying a new turnout strategy and the polls hadn't been looking great for the Dems so that's why I'd not bet.
Surely Raab will have to resign. He's become a laughing stock. Serious question: does Dr David Owen still have all his marbles? He's be a great replacement. Eurosceptic (to appease the wallbangers) but vastly experienced in international negotiations. What's not to like?
@Alistair Which side did you bet in Nevada ? I remember you advocating a position there, were you right ?
I no betted on Nevada but I had been advocating the Democrat if you were going to bet. The party registration and early vote in Clark and Washoe pointed to good Dem performance.
But...
The Republicans were trying a new turnout strategy and the polls hadn't been looking great for the Dems so that's why I'd not bet.
Still struggling with this respiratory infection but just want to say a huge thank you to all the posters who have been so kind in sending their wishes to both my wife and my recovery which slowly continues
Reading through this thread and in particular David Davis and Dominic Raabs comments just makes one despair. They just have not thought this through and it seems we are going to end up in BINO which suits no one.
Dominic Grieve on Sky this morning talking absolute sense and it does make you wonder if remain will actually win the day. I am very conflicted on the whole issue
Despite what David Davis says, I expect that the Commons will vote in favour of the Withdrawal Agreement, because the alternatives are too unpleasant.
It's all about the Holy Trinity now: Labour leadership, ERG, & DUP. There aren't anywhere near enough (Labour) rebels to get the deal through, if all 3 vote against the Deal. Although their reasons are different, they all hate the deal enough and are entrenched to make supporting it difficult.
The one I see as impossible to budge is the Labour party; all their groundwork (6 tests etc) has been for voting against, and with no prospect of their tests being met, hatred of the Tories, and the strong movements for a 2nd vote and causing a fresh election, hard to see where any scope for compromise comes from - but the Tories might peel off a rebel or two more. Ultimately Theresa has rejected every attempt to reach out across party in negotiations, and she will reap what she has sown.
The DUP - they've folded over the budget and there are noises off, as well as distractions over the RHI enquiry now being written. I can see them finding reasons to support 'with great reluctance.'
The ERG - seem to have got more coherent over the past few weeks, even though they still don't have a plan that would survive contact outside their meetings, there are only so many pluses you can put after the word 'Canada' before it gets tricky. But there seem to be those set against, so maybe it's about May picking off individuals.
Still hard to see where that Commons majority comes from.
I'm not convinced that the ERG will fight to the bitter end, and I think there could be quite a lot of Labour abstentions.
Surely Raab will have to resign. He's become a laughing stock. Serious question: does Dr David Owen still have all his marbles? He's be a great replacement. Eurosceptic (to appease the wallbangers) but vastly experienced in international negotiations. What's not to like?
Dr David Owen.
David Owen was a very self-centred person. He was good-looking, he was intelligent, he had immense charm and all these presents were given to him by the good fairy and then the bad fairy came along and tapped him on the shoulder and said, ‘… but you’ll be a shit.’”
Thanks TSE and Benpointer but I am clearly too stupid.
One further tip is where you see an image you want to post right-click on that image and select 'open image in a new tab', go to that tab and copy the URL, paste that URL into the image box when editing your original post.
Still struggling with this respiratory infection but just want to say a huge thank you to all the posters who have been so kind in sending their wishes to both my wife and my recovery which slowly continues
Reading through this thread and in particular David Davis and Dominic Raabs comments just makes one despair. They just have not thought this through and it seems we are going to end up in BINO which suits no one.
Dominic Grieve on Sky this morning talking absolute sense and it does make you wonder if remain will actually win the day. I am very conflicted on the whole issue
Despite what David Davis says, I expect that the Commons will vote in favour of the Withdrawal Agreement, because the alternatives are too unpleasant.
It's all about the Holy Trinity now: Labour leadership, ERG, & DUP. There aren't anywhere near enough (Labour) rebels to get the deal through, if all 3 vote against the Deal. Although their reasons are different, they all hate the deal enough and are entrenched to make supporting it difficult.
The one I see as impossible to budge is the Labour party; all their groundwork (6 tests etc) has been for voting against, and with no prospect of their tests being met, hatred of the Tories, and the strong movements for a 2nd vote and causing a fresh election, hard to see where any scope for compromise comes from - but the Tories might peel off a rebel or two more. Ultimately Theresa has rejected every attempt to reach out across party in negotiations, and she will reap what she has sown.
The DUP - they've folded over the budget and there are noises off, as well as distractions over the RHI enquiry now being written. I can see them finding reasons to support 'with great reluctance.'
The ERG - seem to have got more coherent over the past few weeks, even though they still don't have a plan that would survive contact outside their meetings, there are only so many pluses you can put after the word 'Canada' before it gets tricky. But there seem to be those set against, so maybe it's about May picking off individuals.
Still hard to see where that Commons majority comes from.
I'm not convinced that the ERG will fight to the bitter end, and I think there could be quite a lot of Labour abstentions.
You may be right on the ERG - but it looks to me like several Tory posters are convinced there will be lots of Labour abstentions, and the Labour posters aren't.
Are there Labour posters here who can comment - do you think there will be enough Labour votes to see May's deal over the line? Worried it looks like Tory wishful thinking right now.
The Chilcot style inquiry into Brexit is going to shred the reputations of so many politicians, especially the sunlit upland Brexiteers and the ones who thought it would be easy.
Comments
Apart from those suffering from unduly low blood pressure, I guess.
The EU sell us twice as much in goods as we sell them. That imbalance accounts for the whole of the UK's huge and ultimately unsustainable overall trade deficit. That is not a "success" for the UK.
I just hope that when seen in full context, Raab was actually making fun of the headbangers. It is too depressing otherwise.
https://eu.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/elections/2018/11/01/green-party-senate-candidate-endorses-democrat-kyrsten-sinema/1851848002/
Quite how they felt running in the election would help anyone but Trump, whose environmental policies are dramatically worse than any differences they might have with the Democrats, is utterly beyond me.
A lot of people are going to have a very nasty shock in the next few weeks IMO.
Telling your largest market to fuck off is not a wise idea, but we voted for it...
It was also obvious before the vote, and dismissed as "Project Fear"
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/harris-tweed-in-row-over-scottish-goods-branding-mv229vq9x
Foreigner tries to sell stuff.
Union flag better selling tool than Saltire.
Nats prefer to sell less stuff.....
https://www.britishports.org.uk/system/files/documents/prospects_for_trade_and_britains_maritime_ports.pdf
"Dover is the dominant port for EU trade, accounting for 22% of the total (exports plus imports)."
78% of EU trade goes through ports other than Dover.
If so, switch to vanilla forums, and post it that way.
It gives you an option to add pictures.
After which you just wave your magic wand while saying 'imageappeario' three times.
Reading through this thread and in particular David Davis and Dominic Raabs comments just makes one despair. They just have not thought this through and it seems we are going to end up in BINO which suits no one.
Dominic Grieve on Sky this morning talking absolute sense and it does make you wonder if remain will actually win the day. I am very conflicted on the whole issue
I did say Luddite! Vanilla forums?
Thanks TSE - additional info needed though.
But the news that poor Mrs Bibi is still in Pakistan - though out of prison and presumably in hiding from her own government - and not on her way to freedom (as was thought yesterday evening) is even more depressing. She faces death. We just face potential chaos, humiliation and being the butt of others' contempt and pity.
But...
The Republicans were trying a new turnout strategy and the polls hadn't been looking great for the Dems so that's why I'd not bet.
https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/comment/2079102/#Comment_2079102
Scroll to the bottom and go to the comment box, just above where it says 'Type your comment' there's a row of buttons, third from the right is the picture box, click that, and post the url of where your picture is, and Robert's your father's brother.
Note, make sure the url is of the website of where just the picture is displayed.
So if you wanted to use the picture atop this Telegraph article use,
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/royal-family/2018/11/08/TELEMMGLPICT000178986387_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bqoy0UijBRPlBgfQSD9mX1zUYMapKPjdhyLnv9ax6_too.jpeg?imwidth=1400
Not, https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2018/11/08/wont-meddling-king-prince-charles-says-speaks-reign-first-time/
As a child I used to laugh at all those houses stuck together.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2018/senate/nv/nevada_senate_heller_vs_rosen-6304.html#polls
The hoosier state was the only real polling failure this time round that I can see.
2. Y Bardd Cwsc 48.28
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2018/senate/fl/florida_senate_scott_vs_nelson-6246.html#polls
A deviation of 2.6 from the polling average is certainly not a failure.
Missouri was however, Ohio too and Tennessee.
TRUMP
Vs
Beaten O'Rourke
WH2020
There aren't anywhere near enough (Labour) rebels to get the deal through, if all 3 vote against the Deal.
Although their reasons are different, they all hate the deal enough and are entrenched to make supporting it difficult.
The one I see as impossible to budge is the Labour party; all their groundwork (6 tests etc) has been for voting against, and with no prospect of their tests being met, hatred of the Tories, and the strong movements for a 2nd vote and causing a fresh election, hard to see where any scope for compromise comes from - but the Tories might peel off a rebel or two more. Ultimately Theresa has rejected every attempt to reach out across party in negotiations, and she will reap what she has sown.
The DUP - they've folded over the budget and there are noises off, as well as distractions over the RHI enquiry now being written. I can see them finding reasons to support 'with great reluctance.'
The ERG - seem to have got more coherent over the past few weeks, even though they still don't have a plan that would survive contact outside their meetings, there are only so many pluses you can put after the word 'Canada' before it gets tricky. But there seem to be those set against, so maybe it's about May picking off individuals.
Still hard to see where that Commons majority comes from.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2018/senate/in/indiana_senate_braun_vs_donnelly-6573.html
David Owen was a very self-centred person. He was good-looking, he was intelligent, he had immense charm and all these presents were given to him by the good fairy and then the bad fairy came along and tapped him on the shoulder and said, ‘… but you’ll be a shit.’”
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/07/denis-healey-technicolor-politician-labour-chancellor
Voilà:
Was Beto born outside the USA?
Are there Labour posters here who can comment - do you think there will be enough Labour votes to see May's deal over the line? Worried it looks like Tory wishful thinking right now.
Britain is an island, entire of itself...
https://twitter.com/jason_manc/status/1060497170950950912