The border cobblers should have been immediately crushed by offering Varadkar an immediate United Ireland sans referendum. When he choked and refused, publicise his refusal as the Taoiseach who turned down Irish unity. There would have been no more talk of borders and backstops then.
And if your aunty had balls she'd be your uncle, with the slight difference that your hypothetical aunty could reassign as your uncle if they chose, while there is zilch, nada, fuck all chance of precious union Tessy or any other of her grisly crew offering Varadkar an immediate United Ireland sans referendum.
Why do so many ultra Remainers think that showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage is going to win over people to their side?
Laughing at Nigel Fucking Farage is not "showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage"
All it does it make Leave voting patriotic Britons think they are absolutely right to oppose you.
Siding with Nigel Fucking Farage is why I am absolutely right to oppose you.
You are laughing at someone referencing pride in this country's history.
That is the behaviour of those on the contemptuous Left.
There is plenty to show pride about in our history. There is also plenty to regret - or even feel ashamed about.
If you feel full pride - and not a little shame - for the events and the existence of the Empire, then IMO you're taking patriotism to an idiotic level.
And I think there will be plenty on 'the right' who agree with that.
That's a sensible comment.
Absolutely. On balance the Empire was a force for good. Its (more or less) peaceful dissolution was unique in human history.
Along the we’re there were dreadful events either by accident, carelessness or occasionally deliberately.
You can feel proud of the overall and condemn the specific. But to condemn the whole is to despise a huge part of what made Britain the country it is today
The British Empire was finally ended by WW1 and WW2. Neither of which could be described as particularly peaceful.
The unique thing about the British Empire is that we didn’t want it in the first place. Having finally got rid, why would we hobble ourselves with it again?
Wonder how we would feel if we heard French, German, Japanese or Russian politicians talk about restoring their empires.
The wars made continuation untenable, I agree. But at least we figured that out instead of fighting to the last
WW1 ended British dominance. WW2 decided what came next.
Why do so many ultra Remainers think that showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage is going to win over people to their side?
All it does it make Leave voting patriotic Britons think they are absolutely right to oppose you.
The man in question called for 'Bringing back the British Empire'. So presumably that means leaving the EU with No Deal and reconolising India, Pakistan, most of Africa, Canada, Australia and New Zealand?
I don't think scepticism of that is exactly showing 'contempt for this country's history and heritage' not least as the former colonies affected which are now independent nations may have something to say about it!
When they start talking about 47.5 letters, or 47 letters and an email/fax/carrier pigeon/smoke signal, then we can probably close this one down completely.
Judging by some media reports, there appear to be more letters than actual Tory MPs.
Perhaps he had the letters but he's not passing them on because of 'political sensitivities'.
Why do so many ultra Remainers think that showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage is going to win over people to their side?
Laughing at Nigel Fucking Farage is not "showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage"
All it does it make Leave voting patriotic Britons think they are absolutely right to oppose you.
Siding with Nigel Fucking Farage is why I am absolutely right to oppose you.
You are laughing at someone referencing pride in this country's history.
That is the behaviour of those on the contemptuous Left.
There is plenty to show pride about in our history. There is also plenty to regret - or even feel ashamed about.
If you feel full pride - and not a little shame - for the events and the existence of the Empire, then IMO you're taking patriotism to an idiotic level.
And I think there will be plenty on 'the right' who agree with that.
That's a sensible comment.
Absolutely. On balance the Empire was a force for good. Its (more or less) peaceful dissolution was unique in human history.
Along the we’re there were dreadful events either by accident, carelessness or occasionally deliberately.
You can feel proud of the overall and condemn the specific. But to condemn the whole is to despise a huge part of what made Britain the country it is today
Indeed so. It's the sneering that's so repulsive.
It is easily extended (and usually is) to most other British institutions and traditions.
Why do so many ultra Remainers think that showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage is going to win over people to their side?
Laughing at Nigel Fucking Farage is not "showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage"
All it does it make Leave voting patriotic Britons think they are absolutely right to oppose you.
Siding with Nigel Fucking Farage is why I am absolutely right to oppose you.
You are laughing at someone referencing pride in this country's history.
That is the behaviour of those on the contemptuous Left.
There is plenty to show pride about in our history. There is also plenty to regret - or even feel ashamed about.
If you feel full pride - and not a little shame - for the events and the existence of the Empire, then IMO you're taking patriotism to an idiotic level.
And I think there will be plenty on 'the right' who agree with that.
That's a sensible comment.
Absolutely. On balance the Empire was a force for good. Its (more or less) peaceful dissolution was unique in human history.
Along the we’re there were dreadful events either by accident, carelessness or occasionally deliberately.
You can feel proud of the overall and condemn the specific. But to condemn the whole is to despise a huge part of what made Britain the country it is today
The British Empire was finally ended by WW1 and WW2. Neither of which could be described as particularly peaceful.
The unique thing about the British Empire is that we didn’t want it in the first place. Having finally got rid, why would we hobble ourselves with it again?
Wonder how we would feel if we heard French, German, Japanese or Russian politicians talk about restoring their empires.
The wars made continuation untenable, I agree. But at least we figured that out instead of fighting to the last
WW1 ended British dominance. WW2 decided what came next.
The British Army was too strong in 1914. Had it been thrown from the Continent that autumn then the country would have been able to settle down to supporting someone else fighting the continental power while we maintained a maritime blockade - as during the Napoleonic Wars. British power might then not have been expended in the attrition of the trenches.
Why do so many ultra Remainers think that showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage is going to win over people to their side?
Laughing at Nigel Fucking Farage is not "showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage"
All it does it make Leave voting patriotic Britons think they are absolutely right to oppose you.
Siding with Nigel Fucking Farage is why I am absolutely right to oppose you.
You are laughing at someone referencing pride in this country's history.
That is the behaviour of those on the contemptuous Left.
There is plenty to show pride about in our history. There is also plenty to regret - or even feel ashamed about.
If you feel full pride - and not a little shame - for the events and the existence of the Empire, then IMO you're taking patriotism to an idiotic level.
And I think there will be plenty on 'the right' who agree with that.
That's a sensible comment.
Absolutely. On balance the Empire was a force for good. Its (more or less) peaceful dissolution was unique in human history.
Along the we’re there were dreadful events either by accident, carelessness or occasionally deliberately.
You can feel proud of the overall and condemn the specific. But to condemn the whole is to despise a huge part of what made Britain the country it is today
Indeed so. It's the sneering that's so repulsive.
It is easily extended (and usually is) to most other British institutions and traditions.
But there is no chance of it returning, no matter what some may dream...
Why do so many ultra Remainers think that showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage is going to win over people to their side?
All it does it make Leave voting patriotic Britons think they are absolutely right to oppose you.
The minute people try playing the "patriot" card to claim that those with differing views are "unpatriotic" then it's a fair assumption that their other arguments aren't stacking up.
If Remain had tried to even vaguely make a patriotic argument, it might have won.
Instead it preferred to sneer, call its opponents little Englanders and prostrate itself at the altar of unmitigated internationalism and euro federalism.
Morning, How many hours has May survived in the "Killing zone" so far ?
Anyone who suggested it is a killing zone or the mp who said she should 'bring her own noose' to the 1922 must be ejected from the party and whip withdrawn. Have they not learnt from Joe Cox
Jo Cox was killed by a homicidal Brexit enthusiast, not a metaphor.
And, he is hated as much by Brexiteers as by you.
That act probably turned a 56-44% win for Leave into a much narrower one, and darkened the clouds that lay over it at birth.
Why do so many ultra Remainers think that showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage is going to win over people to their side?
Laughing at Nigel Fucking Farage is not "showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage"
All it does it make Leave voting patriotic Britons think they are absolutely right to oppose you.
Siding with Nigel Fucking Farage is why I am absolutely right to oppose you.
You are laughing at someone referencing pride in this country's history.
That is the behaviour of those on the contemptuous Left.
There is plenty to show pride about in our history. There is also plenty to regret - or even feel ashamed about.
If you feel full pride - and not a little shame - for the events and the existence of the Empire, then IMO you're taking patriotism to an idiotic level.
And I think there will be plenty on 'the right' who agree with that.
That's a sensible comment.
Absolutely. On balance the Empire was a force for snip
The British Empire was finally ended by WW1 and WW2. Neither of which could be described as particularly peaceful.
The unique thing about the British Empire is that we didn’t want it in the first place. Having finally got rid, why would we hobble ourselves with it again?
Wonder how we would feel if we heard French, German, Japanese or Russian politicians talk about restoring their empires.
The wars made continuation untenable, I agree. But at least we figured that out instead of fighting to the last
WW1 ended British dominance. WW2 decided what came next.
The British Army was too strong in 1914. Had it been thrown from the Continent that autumn then the country would have been able to settle down to supporting someone else fighting the continental power while we maintained a maritime blockade - as during the Napoleonic Wars. British power might then not have been expended in the attrition of the trenches.
Blimey. And I thought Morris Dancer was bad. I think you have every single fact wrong there. The Duke of Wellington must be turning in his grave.
Why do so many ultra Remainers think that showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage is going to win over people to their side?
Laughing at Nigel Fucking Farage is not "showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage"
All it does it make Leave voting patriotic Britons think they are absolutely right to oppose you.
Siding with Nigel Fucking Farage is why I am absolutely right to oppose you.
You are laughing at someone referencing pride in this country's history.
That is the behaviour of those on the contemptuous Left.
There is plenty to show pride about in our history. There is also plenty to regret - or even feel ashamed about.
If you feel full pride - and not a little shame - for the events and the existence of the Empire, then IMO you're taking patriotism to an idiotic level.
And I think there will be plenty on 'the right' who agree with that.
That's a sensible comment.
Absolutely. On balance the Empire was a force for good. Its (more or less) peaceful dissolution was unique in human history.
Along the we’re there were dreadful events either by accident, carelessness or occasionally deliberately.
You can feel proud of the overall and condemn the specific. But to condemn the whole is to despise a huge part of what made Britain the country it is today
I have never been persuaded that there was much more of a moral justification for the British Empire than there later was for the Third Reich. Imposing our will - and ideas of civilisation - on the indigenous populations of Australia , New Zealand, North America and much of Africa was little different to what Nazi Germany tried to do in eastern Europe.
This is an extract from David Davis article in today’s Mail on Sunday
‘We are running out of time and we should not fear a ‘no deal’ outcome. Given the EU’s intransigence, we should now step up such preparations.
The paradox is that the more we do, the less likely it becomes. Because if we do, the EU will strike a deal. We have many cards in our favour and the EU knows it. As do the nation states and their industrial leaders. The chief economist of Deutsche Bank, Germany’s biggest bank has said that outside the EU, ‘the UK will do just as well or better not least because outside the Eurozone we have flexible exchange rates. In the event of no deal, our currency would adjust, making EU goods such as German cars about one third more expensive than before 2016, leading to a drop of German car sales to the UK of about a third.’
He goes on to say ‘The UK also should be taking world class legal advice now. We already know that any aggressive threats of discrimination against our goods and services would be illegal under World Trade Organisation rules and indeed article 8 of the Lisbon treaty
He says ‘Many of the threats are project fear mark 2 when it has become patently clear project fear mark 1 was demonstrably incorrect. And of course there are many countries outside the EU waiting to make free trade deals with us. Neither should we forget that, in the event of no dal, there are forces we can unleash to kick start our economy. ‘
‘He goes on to say British companies have cash reserves of £613 billion and investment of just three per cent of that (£18 billion) is one per cent of gdp.
And so it goes on all under a photograph of him as a Battle of Britain ace in front of a spitfire
It is just so extraordinary and it saddens me that a group of otherwise sensible conservative mps have been overtaken by the cult of Brexit with no care of the damage they are inflicting on the conservative party. What on earth do they think they are doing to the conservative party of which I am a member? Am I not allowed a view.
No David, neither you or the ERG speak for this conservative member who cherishes business and the union of the UK and Northern Ireland
Good to see you see the danger a bit more this morning BigG, if we do not agree a backstop for NI by the end of November as the ERG and DUP have blocked it and May has been toppled and replaced by PM Davis then it will be No Deal with all the threat to business and the Union and the boost for the SNP and Sinn Fein that represents
I do wonder what Boris is up to this weekend. The Davis leadership bid is on full throttle judging by the newspapers I've seen so far.
Morning, How many hours has May survived in the "Killing zone" so far ?
Anyone who suggested it is a killing zone or the mp who said she should 'bring her own noose' to the 1922 must be ejected from the party and whip withdrawn. Have they not learnt from Joe Cox
Jo Cox was killed by a homicidal Brexit enthusiast, not a metaphor.
And, he is hated as much by Brexiteers as by you.
That act probably turned a 56-44% win for Leave into a much narrower one, and darkened the clouds that lay over it at birth.
And I thought murder was bad!
Oh, of course. It was absolutely disgusting. And evil.
That doesn't stop the other side noting the political effects of it. And there were some.
This is an extract from David Davis article in today’s Mail on Sunday
‘We are running out of time and we should not fear a ‘no deal’ outcome. Given the EU’s intransigence, we should now step up such preparations.
The paradox is that the more we do, the less likely it becomes. Because if we do, the EU will strike a deal. We have many cards in our favour and the EU knows it. As do the nation states and their industrial leaders. The chief economist of Deutsche Bank, Germany’s biggest bank has said that outside the EU, ‘the UK will do just as well or better not least because outside the Eurozone we have flexible exchange rates. In the event of no deal, our currency would adjust, making EU goods such as German cars about one third more expensive than before 2016, leading to a drop of German car sales to the UK of about a third.’
He goes on to say ‘The UK also should be taking world class legal advice now. We already know that any aggressive threats of discrimination against our goods and services would be illegal under World Trade Organisation rules and indeed article 8 of the Lisbon treaty
He says ‘Many of the threats are project fear mark 2 when it has become patently clear project fear mark 1 was demonstrably incorrect. And of course there are many countries outside the EU waiting to make free trade deals with us. Neither should we forget that, in the event of no dal, there are forces we can unleash to kick start our economy. ‘
‘He goes on to say British companies have cash reserves of £613 billion and investment of just three per cent of that (£18 billion) is one per cent of gdp.
Good to see you see the danger a bit more this morning BigG, if we do not agree a backstop for NI by the end of November as the ERG and DUP have blocked it and May has been toppled and replaced by PM Davis then it will be No Deal with all the threat to business and the Union and the boost for the SNP and Sinn Fein that represents
I do wonder what Boris is up to this weekend. The Davis leadership bid is on full throttle judging by the newspapers I've seen so far.
Presumably the latest cunning plan recognises that Tory MPs won't NC May if they think they are voting for a Boris leadership, so he'll hide behind Davis for now?
This is an extract from David Davis article in today’s Mail on Sunday
‘We are running out of time and we should not fear a ‘no deal’ outcome. Given the EU’s intransigence, we should now step up such preparations.
The paradox is that the more we do, the less likely it becomes. Because if we do, the EU will strike a deal. We have many cards in our favour and the EU knows it. As do the nation states and their industrial leaders. The chief economist of Deutsche Bank, Germany’s biggest bank has said that outside the EU, ‘the UK will do just as well or better not least because outside the Eurozone we have flexible exchange rates. In the event of no deal, our currency would adjust, making EU goods such as German cars about one third more expensive than before 2016, leading to a drop of German car sales to the UK of about a third.’
He goes on to say ‘The UK also should be taking world class legal advice now. We already know that any aggressive threats of discrimination against our goods and services would be illegal under World Trade Organisation rules and indeed article 8 of the Lisbon treaty
He says ‘Many of the threats are project fear mark 2 when it has become patently clear project fear mark 1 was demonstrably incorrect. And of course there are many countries outside the EU waiting to make free trade deals with us. Neither should we forget that, in the event of no dal, there are forces we can unleash to kick start our economy. ‘
‘He goes on to say British companies have cash reserves of £613 billion and investment of just three per cent of that (£18 billion) is one per cent of gdp.
And so it goes on all under a photograph of him as a Battle of Britain ace in front of a spitfire
It is just so extraordinary and it saddens me that a group of otherwise sensible conservative mps have been overtaken by the cult of Brexit with no care of the damage they are inflicting on the conservative party. What on earth do they think they are doing to the conservative party of which I am a member? Am I not allowed a view.
No David, neither you or the ERG speak for this conservative member who cherishes business and the union of the UK and Northern Ireland
Sorry Big_G - May is trying to agree a backstop that will fundamentally damage the Union as even Ruth Davidson is now saying. A no deal Brexit will not see any hard border as both sides have made abundantly clear.
If you now think that that the referendum result should be ignored because of your concerns about the Union, fine.
But you cannot rasonably support May and condemn the ERG on the grounds of your support for the Union. It is May who put the Union at risk by agreeing the backstop. The ERG are defending the Union by refusing the demands of a foreign power to interfere in NI against the terms of the GFA.
F1: may add to this later (more markets being added but I need to walk the dog soon), but Bottas at 3.75 (each way, third the odds top 2) to be winner without Vettel/Hamilton is just too long. He's narrowly shorter than Raikkonen to be on the podium (1.61 against 1.66) yet 3.75 to be winner without Hamilton/Vettel. He starts 3rd on the grid, on the supersoft, Raikkonen on the ultrasoft.
Why do so many ultra Remainers think that showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage is going to win over people to their side?
All it does it make Leave voting patriotic Britons think they are absolutely right to oppose you.
The gentleman was not expressing pride in the country's past, he was recommending a future course of action ("let's get back to being the British Empire"). That course has a very low probability of success.
Why do so many ultra Remainers think that showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage is going to win over people to their side?
Laughing at Nigel Fucking Farage is not "showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage"
All it does it make Leave voting patriotic Britons think they are absolutely right to oppose you.
Siding with Nigel Fucking Farage is why I am absolutely right to oppose you.
You are laughing at someone referencing pride in this country's history.
That is the behaviour of those on the contemptuous Left.
There is plenty to show pride about in our history. There is also plenty to regret - or even feel ashamed about.
If you feel full pride - and not a little shame - for the events and the existence of the Empire, then IMO you're taking patriotism to an idiotic level.
And I think there will be plenty on 'the right' who agree with that.
That's a sensible comment.
Absolutely. On balance the Empire was a force for good. Its (more or less) peaceful dissolution was unique in human history.
Along the we’re there were dreadful events either by accident, carelessness or occasionally deliberately.
You can feel proud of the overall and condemn the specific. But to condemn the whole is to despise a huge part of what made Britain the country it is today
Indeed so. It's the sneering that's so repulsive.
It is easily extended (and usually is) to most other British institutions and traditions.
But there is no chance of it returning, no matter what some may dream...
I very much doubt anyone is. Such sentiments shouldn't be taken literally.
They refer to building closer links with the Commonwealth, which is a sentiment many would approve of and indeed taking advantage of the Canzuk offer by the Canadian Conservative Party.
Why do so many ultra Remainers think that showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage is going to win over people to their side?
Laughing at Nigel Fucking Farage is not "showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage"
All it does it make Leave voting patriotic Britons think they are absolutely right to oppose you.
Siding with Nigel Fucking Farage is why I am absolutely right to oppose you.
You are laughing at someone referencing pride in this country's history.
That is the behaviour of those on the contemptuous Left.
There is plenty to show pride about in our history. There is also plenty to regret - or even feel ashamed about.
If you feel full pride - and not a little shame - for the events and the existence of the Empire, then IMO you're taking patriotism to an idiotic level.
And I think there will be plenty on 'the right' who agree with that.
That's a sensible comment.
Absolutely. On balance the Empire was a force for good. Its (more or less) peaceful dissolution was unique in human history.
Along the we’re there were dreadful events either by accident, carelessness or occasionally deliberately.
You can feel proud of the overall and condemn the specific. But to condemn the whole is to despise a huge part of what made Britain the country it is today
Indeed so. It's the sneering that's so repulsive.
It is easily extended (and usually is) to most other British institutions and traditions.
I think I've pointed out to you before that the British institutions (BBC, monarchy, NHS, Parliament) are often sneered at by Leave voters as well as Remain. Patriotism does not split along such a clear axis.
Raab emphasises if a backstop is agreed conditions need to be known as to when it ends on Marr, on most other issues a Deal already agreed
In line with people are willing to accept and very different from your hysterical postings
Most people in GB could not care less if we agree the NI backstop, they care a great deal that we avoid No Deal bar diehard Leavers
Wrong again. John Curtice reports that only 26% support NI backstop with 42% against.
84.9% of NI voters would prefer a 'soft Brexit' of staying in the SM and CU for either the UK OR just NI to just 15% who would prefer a 'hard Brexit' for all of the UK
In terms of GB given a forced choice between a backstop for NI and a FTA for GB or No Deal for the whole UK GB voters would back the former
Amazing, you quote polls all day long and then one (actually two) say you are completely wrong about voter support for the backstop, you magic up a hypothetical question and make up a result to ‘prove’ your point.
Your credibility is, can I say, somewhat lower than TMs at the moment.
Why do so many ultra Remainers think that showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage is going to win over people to their side?
All it does it make Leave voting patriotic Britons think they are absolutely right to oppose you.
The gentleman was not expressing pride in the country's past, he was recommending a future course of action ("let's get back to being the British Empire"). That course has a very low probability of success.
If rephrased as “let’s get back to being the English Empire” it is a straightforward expression of the Brexit impulse.
Why do so many ultra Remainers think that showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage is going to win over people to their side?
Laughing at Nigel Fucking Farage is not "showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage"
All it does it make Leave voting patriotic Britons think they are absolutely right to oppose you.
Siding with Nigel Fucking Farage is why I am absolutely right to oppose you.
You are laughing at someone referencing pride in this country's history.
That is the behaviour of those on the contemptuous Left.
There is plenty to show pride about in our history. There is also plenty to regret - or even feel ashamed about.
If you feel full pride - and not a little shame - for the events and the existence of the Empire, then IMO you're taking patriotism to an idiotic level.
And I think there will be plenty on 'the right' who agree with that.
That's a sensible comment.
Don't worry. Normal service shall be resumed soon. Or after I buy some more AAA batteries for this *^&&*%^&% wireless keyboard ...
My wireless keyboard lasts about four years between battery changes.
But my wireless mouse lasts only about four months.
Its one of the little things which I'm curious about.
It's one of the cases where I'm hoping it's the batteries, as any other problem is going to be expensive ...
Why do so many ultra Remainers think that showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage is going to win over people to their side?
Laughing at Nigel Fucking Farage is not "showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage"
All it does it make Leave voting patriotic Britons think they are absolutely right to oppose you.
Siding with Nigel Fucking Farage is why I am absolutely right to oppose you.
You are laughing at someone referencing pride in this country's history.
That is the behaviour of those on the contemptuous Left.
There is plenty to show pride about in our history. There is also plenty to regret - or even feel ashamed about.
If you feel full pride - and not a little shame - for the events and the existence of the Empire, then IMO you're taking patriotism to an idiotic level.
And I think there will be plenty on 'the right' who agree with that.
That's a sensible comment.
Absolutely. On balance the Empire was a force for good. Its (more or less) peaceful dissolution was unique in human history.
Along the we’re there were dreadful events either by accident, carelessness or occasionally deliberately.
You can feel proud of the overall and condemn the specific. But to condemn the whole is to despise a huge part of what made Britain the country it is today
Indeed so. It's the sneering that's so repulsive.
It is easily extended (and usually is) to most other British institutions and traditions.
I think I've pointed out to you before that the British institutions (BBC, monarchy, NHS, Parliament) are often sneered at by Leave voters as well as Remain. Patriotism does not split along such a clear axis.
sneering at the BBC means people aren't patriotic?
hmmmm
Perhaps if the BBC were a little more impartial and less up itself ... ohh and if I had a choice as to whether I want their output I for one would be less scathing of them.
Why do so many ultra Remainers think that showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage is going to win over people to their side?
Laughing at Nigel Fucking Farage is not "showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage"
All it does it make Leave voting patriotic Britons think they are absolutely right to oppose you.
Siding with Nigel Fucking Farage is why I am absolutely right to oppose you.
You are laughing at someone referencing pride in this country's history.
That is the behaviour of those on the contemptuous Left.
There is plenty to show pride about in our history. There is also plenty to regret - or even feel ashamed about.
If you feel full pride - and not a little shame - for the events and the existence of the Empire, then IMO you're taking patriotism to an idiotic level.
And I think there will be plenty on 'the right' who agree with that.
That's a sensible comment.
Absolutely. On balance the Empire was a force for good. Its (more or less) peaceful dissolution was unique in human history.
Along the we’re there were dreadful events either by accident, carelessness or occasionally deliberately.
You can feel proud of the overall and condemn the specific. But to condemn the whole is to despise a huge part of what made Britain the country it is today
The British Empire was finally ended by WW1 and WW2. Neither of which could be described as particularly peaceful.
The unique thing about the British Empire is that we didn’t want it in the first place. Having finally got rid, why would we hobble ourselves with it again?
Wonder how we would feel if we heard French, German, Japanese or Russian politicians talk about restoring their empires.
The wars made continuation untenable, I agree. But at least we figured that out instead of fighting to the last
WW1 ended British dominance. WW2 decided what came next.
The British Army was too strong in 1914. Had it been thrown from the Continent that autumn then the country would have been able to settle down to supporting someone else fighting the continental power while we maintained a maritime blockade - as during the Napoleonic Wars. British power might then not have been expended in the attrition of the trenches.
Oh dear - You might find yourself in a bit of a minority with that POV.
Absolutely. On balance the Empire was a force for good. Its (more or less) peaceful dissolution was unique in human history.
Along the we’re there were dreadful events either by accident, carelessness or occasionally deliberately.
You can feel proud of the overall and condemn the specific. But to condemn the whole is to despise a huge part of what made Britain the country it is today
I have never been persuaded that there was much more of a moral justification for the British Empire than there later was for the Third Reich. Imposing our will - and ideas of civilisation - on the indigenous populations of Australia , New Zealand, North America and much of Africa was little different to what Nazi Germany tried to do in eastern Europe.
I don't think the empire was morally justified, but the comparison is needlessly provocative. What people primarily recall about Nazi Germany is genocide, systematic enslavement and torture on an industrial scale, none of which can reasonably be ascribed to the British empire. We did a fair amount of good and a fair amount of harm, and I don't think pride is appropriate for a history of dominating other peoples even where we behaved well, but we weren't genocidal maniacs.
The dissolution of what one can call the Soviet empire was incidentally also pretty peaceful - more so than ours because of the disaster in India - and the Portugese empire in Africa was dissolved when the new Portugese government decided the insurgents were actually right - something which perhaps really is unique in history.
Why do so many ultra Remainers think that showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage is going to win over people to their side?
Laughing at Nigel Fucking Farage is not "showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage"
All it does it make Leave voting patriotic Britons think they are absolutely right to oppose you.
Siding with Nigel Fucking Farage is why I am absolutely right to oppose you.
You are laughing at someone referencing pride in this country's history.
That is the behaviour of those on the contemptuous Left.
There is plenty to show pride about in our history. There is also plenty to regret - or even feel ashamed about.
If you feel full pride - and not a little shame - for the events and the existence of the Empire, then IMO you're taking patriotism to an idiotic level.
And I think there will be plenty on 'the right' who agree with that.
That's a sensible comment.
Absolutely. On balance the Empire was a force for good. Its (more or less) peaceful dissolution was unique in human history.
Along the we’re there were dreadful events either by accident, carelessness or occasionally deliberately.
You can feel proud of the overall and condemn the specific. But to condemn the whole is to despise a huge part of what made Britain the country it is today
Indeed so. It's the sneering that's so repulsive.
It is easily extended (and usually is) to most other British institutions and traditions.
I think I've pointed out to you before that the British institutions (BBC, monarchy, NHS, Parliament) are often sneered at by Leave voters as well as Remain. Patriotism does not split along such a clear axis.
You'll have to do a lot of work to convince me that there are signfisigni numbers of Leave voters than sneer at the monarchy. I think for many it was about giving our Parliament more powers, accountable to the people who elect it, but there is a lot of contempt for the individuals within it.
The NHS, yes, by some. The BBC seems to get attacked by both sides these days.
Interesting report from Cambridge by Sophy Ridge which confirms TM has a higher level of support among ordinary voters than many would think
Is it actual respect or do they just feel sorry for her - busy ploughing on in adversity? I doubt perceptions are the same as two years ago when she was doing her I'm the new Thatcher act.
Absolutely. On balance the Empire was a force for good. Its (more or less) peaceful dissolution was unique in human history.
Along the we’re there were dreadful events either by accident, carelessness or occasionally deliberately.
You can feel proud of the overall and condemn the specific. But to condemn the whole is to despise a huge part of what made Britain the country it is today
I have never been persuaded that there was much more of a moral justification for the British Empire than there later was for the Third Reich. Imposing our will - and ideas of civilisation - on the indigenous populations of Australia , New Zealand, North America and much of Africa was little different to what Nazi Germany tried to do in eastern Europe.
I don't think the empire was morally justified, but the comparison is needlessly provocative. What people primarily recall about Nazi Germany is genocide, systematic enslavement and torture on an industrial scale, none of which can reasonably be ascribed to the British empire. We did a fair amount of good and a fair amount of harm, and I don't think pride is appropriate for a history of dominating other peoples even where we behaved well, but we weren't genocidal maniacs.
The dissolution of what one can call the Soviet empire was incidentally also pretty peaceful - more so than ours because of the disaster in India - and the Portugese empire in Africa was dissolved when the new Portugese government decided the insurgents were actually right - something which perhaps really is unique in history.
Significant numbers of the indigenous African tribes were slaughtered during the period of Empire building - a fate shared by many Aboriginies , Maoris and Red Indians in North America. The idea of White supremacy was very apparent - even if the technology to bring about mass genocide was absent.
Interesting report from Cambridge by Sophy Ridge which confirms TM has a higher level of support among ordinary voters than many would think
If you want Brexit implemented, either because you believe in it anyway, or because you want it done as best as it can be, Theresa May is your last and only hope. She is the only politician taking Brexit seriously. Corbyn isn't. Johnson, Davis, Raab, Hunt and Javid aren't.
Absolutely. On balance the Empire was a force for good. Its (more or less) peaceful dissolution was unique in human history.
Along the we’re there were dreadful events either by accident, carelessness or occasionally deliberately.
You can feel proud of the overall and condemn the specific. But to condemn the whole is to despise a huge part of what made Britain the country it is today
I have never been persuaded that there was much more of a moral justification for the British Empire than there later was for the Third Reich. Imposing our will - and ideas of civilisation - on the indigenous populations of Australia , New Zealand, North America and much of Africa was little different to what Nazi Germany tried to do in eastern Europe.
I don't think the empire was morally justified, but the comparison is needlessly provocative. What people primarily recall about Nazi Germany is genocide, systematic enslavement and torture on an industrial scale, none of which can reasonably be ascribed to the British empire. We did a fair amount of good and a fair amount of harm, and I don't think pride is appropriate for a history of dominating other peoples even where we behaved well, but we weren't genocidal maniacs.
The dissolution of what one can call the Soviet empire was incidentally also pretty peaceful - more so than ours because of the disaster in India - and the Portugese empire in Africa was dissolved when the new Portugese government decided the insurgents were actually right - something which perhaps really is unique in history.
Significant numbers of the indigenous African tribes were slaughtered during the period of Empire building - a fate shared by many Aboriginies , Maoris and Red Indians in North America. The idea of White supremacy was very apparent - even if the technology to bring about mass genocide was absent.
Nevertheless the key is to judge events against the background of their times. Yes, there are sorry episodes in the history of the British Empire, but in contemporary terms it was relatively enlightened (compare for example the behaviour of the Belgians in Africa). Which cannot be said of Nazi Germany judged by mid-20th century standards.
It is easily extended (and usually is) to most other British institutions and traditions.
I think I've pointed out to you before that the British institutions (BBC, monarchy, NHS, Parliament) are often sneered at by Leave voters as well as Remain. Patriotism does not split along such a clear axis.
sneering at the BBC means people aren't patriotic?
hmmmm
Perhaps if the BBC were a little more impartial and less up itself ... ohh and if I had a choice as to whether I want their output I for one would be less scathing of them.
I'd argue ultimately "yes", to be honest. At this moment there is very little that ties us together, and (as you correctly point out) those institutions are under attack. There is a danger that "Britishness" will dissolve into an online self-declared abstract identity without being tied to concrete institutions. Take away the Church of England (regional variations are available), the BBC, the Government, Parliament, NHS, etc and what is left? A vague feeling? It's not enough.
I've argued before that patriotism is a commitment not an identity: a promise to do things such as pay tax or serve in the armed forces, not an expression of an inner conviction. And I'm somewhat saddened by those who disagree.
Morning, How many hours has May survived in the "Killing zone" so far ?
Anyone who suggested it is a killing zone or the mp who said she should 'bring her own noose' to the 1922 must be ejected from the party and whip withdrawn. Have they not learnt from Joe Cox
Jo Cox was killed by a homicidal Brexit enthusiast, not a metaphor.
And, he is hated as much by Brexiteers as by you.
That act probably turned a 56-44% win for Leave into a much narrower one, and darkened the clouds that lay over it at birth.
And I thought murder was bad!
Oh, of course. It was absolutely disgusting. And evil.
That doesn't stop the other side noting the political effects of it. And there were some.
There were around 750 murders committed in the last twelve months in England and Wales. Were they all committed by leave voters? Because I don't really see the point being made.
Thomas Mair was a disturbed man and no one can really know but him why he did what he did that day in that moment. Even Jo Cox's husband has said it is far too simplistic to blame it on the EU referendum.
You'll have to do a lot of work to convince me that there are signfisigni numbers of Leave voters than sneer at the monarchy. I think for many it was about giving our Parliament more powers, accountable to the people who elect it, but there is a lot of contempt for the individuals within it.
The NHS, yes, by some. The BBC seems to get attacked by both sides these days.
Absolutely. On balance the Empire was a force for good. Its (more or less) peaceful dissolution was unique in human history.
Along the we’re there were dreadful events either by accident, carelessness or occasionally deliberately.
You can feel proud of the overall and condemn the specific. But to condemn the whole is to despise a huge part of what made Britain the country it is today
I have never been persuaded that there was much more of a moral justification for the British Empire than there later was for the Third Reich. Imposing our will - and ideas of civilisation - on the indigenous populations of Australia , New Zealand, North America and much of Africa was little different to what Nazi Germany tried to do in eastern Europe.
I don't think the empire was morally justified, but the comparison is needlessly provocative. What people primarily recall about Nazi Germany is genocide, systematic enslavement and torture on an industrial scale, none of which can reasonably be ascribed to the British empire. We did a fair amount of good and a fair amount of harm, and I don't think pride is appropriate for a history of dominating other peoples even where we behaved well, but we weren't genocidal maniacs.
The dissolution of what one can call the Soviet empire was incidentally also pretty peaceful - more so than ours because of the disaster in India - and the Portugese empire in Africa was dissolved when the new Portugese government decided the insurgents were actually right - something which perhaps really is unique in history.
Significant numbers of the indigenous African tribes were slaughtered during the period of Empire building - a fate shared by many Aboriginies , Maoris and Red Indians in North America. The idea of White supremacy was very apparent - even if the technology to bring about mass genocide was absent.
Nevertheless the key is to judge events against the background of their times. Yes, there are sorry episodes in the history of the British Empire, but in contemporary terms it was relatively enlightened (compare for example the behaviour of the Belgians in Africa). Which cannot be said of Nazi Germany judged by mid-20th century standards.
I understand that point and also accept that the Empires of France , Belgium & Portugal etc were even less benign. Nevertheless the period of British Empire building was well within living memory at the outset of World War2 - and it is not obvious to me that we were well placed to condemn the expansionist policies of other powers in the light of our own recent behaviour.
Why do so many ultra Remainers think that showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage is going to win over people to their side?
Laughing at Nigel Fucking Farage is not "showing off their contempt for this country's history and heritage"
All it does it make Leave voting patriotic Britons think they are absolutely right to oppose you.
Siding with Nigel Fucking Farage is why I am absolutely right to oppose you.
You are laughing at someone referencing pride in this country's history.
That is the behaviour of those on the contemptuous Left.
There is plenty to show pride about in our history. There is also plenty to regret - or even feel ashamed about.
If you feel full pride - and not a little shame - for the events and the existence of the Empire, then IMO you're taking patriotism to an idiotic level.
And I think there will be plenty on 'the right' who agree with that.
That's a sensible comment.
Absolutely. On balance the Empire was a force for good. Its (more or less) peaceful dissolution was unique in human history.
Along the we’re there were dreadful events either by accident, carelessness or occasionally deliberately.
You can feel proud of the overall and condemn the specific. But to condemn the whole is to despise a huge part of what made Britain the country it is today
Indeed so. It's the sneering that's so repulsive.
It is easily extended (and usually is) to most other British institutions and traditions.
A remarkably blinkered view, based on the assumption that the only kind of patriotism that is legitimate is what I tend to call 'Royal Tournament patriotism'.
Do you not recall, after our wonderful 2012 Olympic opening ceremony, which celebrated that great British institution of the NHS, as well as a raft of popular music, that it was the Daily Mail and some Tory MPs that were having a whinge while the rest of us thought it was a great expression of British values?
The British Army was too strong in 1914. Had it been thrown from the Continent that autumn then the country would have been able to settle down to supporting someone else fighting the continental power while we maintained a maritime blockade - as during the Napoleonic Wars. British power might then not have been expended in the attrition of the trenches.
Dear heaven. As bollocks goes, that's more imposing than Corbyn's claim his manifesto was fully costed.
You do know that the entire, tiny BEF (150,000 men, if memory serves) was more or less wiped out in the first three months of WW1, surely?
I think you're confusing it with the resistance offered by the Belgians which allowed the French to mobilise effectively (although they were close to losing Paris at one point).
About the only strategically useful thing the BEF did before Sir John French managed to kill them all was secure the Channel ports.
A remarkably blinkered view, based on the assumption that the only kind of patriotism that is legitimate is what I tend to call 'Royal Tournament patriotism'.
The Brexit day victory parade is going to be led by Casino in a plastic Union Jack bowler hat riding a Raleigh Chopper down Pall Mall.
I do wonder what Boris is up to this weekend. The Davis leadership bid is on full throttle judging by the newspapers I've seen so far.
He might perhaps have judged that a couple of years of Davis, taking all the heat of Brexit, might allow him to come out the other side as a realistic candidate - if he's done the hard yards and developed a personal manifesto in that time.
Let’s see how he deals with the opening salvo, and hope he doesn’t crumple under a battery of questions. Could do horrible things for his career trajectory.
I do wonder what Boris is up to this weekend. The Davis leadership bid is on full throttle judging by the newspapers I've seen so far.
He might perhaps have judged that a couple of years of Davis, taking all the heat of Brexit, might allow him to come out the other side as a realistic candidate - if he's done the hard yards and developed a personal manifesto in that time.
Could have started that (a) June 2016 or (b) May 2017. But he didn't. He continues to flounce around, wanting all the respect of government with none of the responsibility.
Let’s see how he deals with the opening salvo, and hope he doesn’t crumple under a battery of questions. Could do horrible things for his career trajectory.
Are you rifling my reputation as PB's premier punner? If so, be warned I shall detonate...
I do wonder what Boris is up to this weekend. The Davis leadership bid is on full throttle judging by the newspapers I've seen so far.
He might perhaps have judged that a couple of years of Davis, taking all the heat of Brexit, might allow him to come out the other side as a realistic candidate - if he's done the hard yards and developed a personal manifesto in that time.
Sadly Boris doesn't do hard yards. He wings everything and always hands in his work at the last minute.
Let’s see how he deals with the opening salvo, and hope he doesn’t crumple under a battery of questions. Could do horrible things for his career trajectory.
Are you rifling my reputation as PB's premier punner? If so, be warned I shall detonate...
I rebut that explosive charge.
In the field of punnery, I am severely outgunned and outranged.
Absolutely. On balance the Empire was a force for good. Its (more or less) peaceful dissolution was unique in human history.
Along the we’re there were dreadful events either by accident, carelessness or occasionally deliberately.
You can feel proud of the overall and condemn the specific. But to condemn the whole is to despise a huge part of what made Britain the country it is today
I have never been persuaded that there was much more of a moral justification for the British Empire than there later was for the Third Reich. Imposing our will - and ideas of civilisation - on the indigenous populations of Australia , New Zealand, North America and much of Africa was little different to what Nazi Germany tried to do in eastern Europe.
I don't think the empire was morally justified, but the comparison is needlessly provocative. What people primarily recall about Nazi Germany is genocide, systematic enslavement and torture on an industrial scale, none of which can reasonably be ascribed to the British empire. We did a fair amount of good and a fair amount of harm, and I don't think pride is appropriate for a history of dominating other peoples even where we behaved well, but we weren't genocidal maniacs. .
Significant numbers of the indigenous African tribes were slaughtered during the period of Empire building - a fate shared by many Aboriginies , Maoris and Red Indians in North America. The idea of White supremacy was very apparent - even if the technology to bring about mass genocide was absent.
Nevertheless the key is to judge events against the background of their times. Yes, there are sorry episodes in the history of the British Empire, but in contemporary terms it was relatively enlightened (compare for example the behaviour of the Belgians in Africa). Which cannot be said of Nazi Germany judged by mid-20th century standards.
I understand that point and also accept that the Empires of France , Belgium & Portugal etc were even less benign. Nevertheless the period of British Empire building was well within living memory at the outset of World War2 - and it is not obvious to me that we were well placed to condemn the expansionist policies of other powers in the light of our own recent behaviour.
Preventing Nazi atrocities was neither an explicit war aim nor a strategic consideration for the UK during the war.
I do wonder what Boris is up to this weekend. The Davis leadership bid is on full throttle judging by the newspapers I've seen so far.
He might perhaps have judged that a couple of years of Davis, taking all the heat of Brexit, might allow him to come out the other side as a realistic candidate - if he's done the hard yards and developed a personal manifesto in that time.
If he keeps putting it off so that others can take the harder choices he will never get a chance.
I do wonder what Boris is up to this weekend. The Davis leadership bid is on full throttle judging by the newspapers I've seen so far.
He might perhaps have judged that a couple of years of Davis, taking all the heat of Brexit, might allow him to come out the other side as a realistic candidate - if he's done the hard yards and developed a personal manifesto in that time.
Sadly Boris doesn't do hard yards. He wings everything and always hands in his work at the last minute.
There is such a disgusting pun could be made there about Boris, hardness and hands...
Let’s see how he deals with the opening salvo, and hope he doesn’t crumple under a battery of questions. Could do horrible things for his career trajectory.
Are you rifling my reputation as PB's premier punner? If so, be warned I shall detonate...
I rebut that explosive charge.
I was only pulling your lanyard really, there's no need to fire like that.
Glad I waited for the extra markets. Some interesting possibilities, but decided to stick with Bottas to be the winner without Hamilton/Vettel each way at 3.75.
Let’s see how he deals with the opening salvo, and hope he doesn’t crumple under a battery of questions. Could do horrible things for his career trajectory.
Are you rifling my reputation as PB's premier punner? If so, be warned I shall detonate...
I rebut that explosive charge.
I was only pulling your lanyard really, there's no need to fire like that.
Let’s see how he deals with the opening salvo, and hope he doesn’t crumple under a battery of questions. Could do horrible things for his career trajectory.
Are you rifling my reputation as PB's premier punner? If so, be warned I shall detonate...
I rebut that explosive charge.
I was only pulling your lanyard really, there's no need to fire like that.
Shoot, I never thought otherwise.
Well, clearly I can't muzzle you. You're on these puns in a flash.
Absolutely. On balance the Empire was a force for good. Its (more or less) peaceful dissolution was unique in human history.
Along the we’re there were dreadful events either by accident, carelessness or occasionally deliberately.
You can feel proud of the overall and condemn the specific. But to condemn the whole is to despise a huge part of what made Britain the country it is today
I have never been persuaded that there was much more of a moral justification for the British Empire than there later was for the Third Reich. Imposing our will - and ideas of civilisation - on the indigenous populations of Australia , New Zealand, North America and much of Africa was little different to what Nazi Germany tried to do in eastern Europe.
I don't think the empire was morally justified, but the comparison is needlessly provocative. What people primarily recall about Nazi Germany is genocide, systematic enslavement and torture on an industrial scale, none of which can reasonably be ascribed to the British empire. We did a fair amount of good and a fair amount of harm, and I don't think pride is appropriate for a history of dominating other peoples even where we behaved well, but we weren't genocidal maniacs. .
Significant numbers of the indigenous African tribes were slaughtered during the period of Empire building - a fate shared by many Aboriginies , Maoris and Red Indians in North America. The idea of White supremacy was very apparent - even if the technology to bring about mass genocide was absent.
Nevertheless the key is to judge events against the background of their times. Yes, there are sorry episodes in the history of the British Empire, but in contemporary terms it was relatively enlightened (compare for example the behaviour of the Belgians in Africa). Which cannot be said of Nazi Germany judged by mid-20th century standards.
I understand that point and also accept that the Empires of France , Belgium & Portugal etc were even less benign. Nevertheless the period of British Empire building was well within living memory at the outset of World War2 - and it is not obvious to me that we were well placed to condemn the expansionist policies of other powers in the light of our own recent behaviour.
Preventing Nazi atrocities was neither an explicit war aim nor a strategic consideration for the UK during the war.
I agree - our involvement was determined by self interest and the balance of power in Europe.
From the speech of Rob Jetten, new leader of the Dutch liberal party:
The word Brexit evokes an image of a Britain that has to endure confinement in some kind of enclosure. An enclosure from which it can escape by simply moving through an opening marked ‘exit’. It can get up and go. A simple, single act of will. You just have to say yes or no. Piece of cake. In or out. All you have to do is tick the box.
The attraction of the image the word Brexit evokes is obvious. Standing up and going for the “exit” has the flavour of decisiveness, independence, change and action. Much more attractive than being passive. Sitting on your hands. Keeping things as they are, afraid of what is outside the door. And then, of course, there is the unfortunate rubbery capacity of the word for it to be shaped into all kinds of attractive sounding derivations. Such as “brexiteer”. Who would want to be something as stuffy and boring sounding as a “remainer” when you can be something as new-fangled and exciting as a “brexiteer”, dashing fearlessly through the exit to the great outdoors.
There is no simple “exit” that can be taken. There is no simple separation. There is only tearing. Cutting. Destruction. Every single element, every tiny strand is connected. The mightiest riddles, such as the customs union and the Irish border, dominate the political conversation. But the truth is that it’s nitty-gritty tiny strands of fabric all the way down. During its 45 years in the EU, Britain has imported many tens of thousands of European laws and regulations. Many thousands more have direct effect. EU law has had absolute supremacy over British law ever since British accession. A little understood legal reality. The fabric of Europe’s legal framework is the fabric of the UK’s political life.
[My] blind optimism says Britain can still escape this mess. Naturally I have no real hope of making a dent in the national discussion today. But I believe Barack Obama—one famous foreigner who unsuccessfully intervened in the Brexit debate—when he says that optimism is never blind if it is rooted in tradition.
And you do know a thing or two about tradition. You do have a tradition of escaping at the last minute. It is no coincidence Harry Houdini spent his best years in Britain. It is equally less surprising that the great escape artist Sherlock Holmes is a British literary figure. Nor is it at all strange that the most memorable of JK Rowling’s writing involves Harry Potter escaping disaster. What is necessary for this great country to make its greatest escape? I’m no expert, which is good, because I’ve heard you’ve had quite enough of them. But I would hazard to guess that it would take a last minute miracle. And I’m here to say that we will welcome miracles as befits miracles: with biblical comprehension.
Let’s see how he deals with the opening salvo, and hope he doesn’t crumple under a battery of questions. Could do horrible things for his career trajectory.
Are you rifling my reputation as PB's premier punner? If so, be warned I shall detonate...
I rebut that explosive charge.
I was only pulling your lanyard really, there's no need to fire like that.
Shoot, I never thought otherwise.
Well, clearly I can't muzzle you. You're on these puns in a flash.
Time for a ceasefire, I’m afraid. Family duties call.
I agree - our involvement was determined by self interest and the balance of power in Europe.
I think that's overly simplistic. If it had been, then we would have made peace either after the fall of Poland or the fall of France. It was the sense that Hitler really was uniquely evil and untrustworthy and had to be stopped that kept everyone going (except Halifax).
Of course, this did happen to be very definitely in Britain's interests as well, but I think you are downplaying the moral crusade people felt they were taking part in.
Let’s see how he deals with the opening salvo, and hope he doesn’t crumple under a battery of questions. Could do horrible things for his career trajectory.
Are you rifling my reputation as PB's premier punner? If so, be warned I shall detonate...
I rebut that explosive charge.
I was only pulling your lanyard really, there's no need to fire like that.
Shoot, I never thought otherwise.
Well, clearly I can't muzzle you. You're on these puns in a flash.
Time for a ceasefire, I’m afraid. Family duties call.
Let’s see how he deals with the opening salvo, and hope he doesn’t crumple under a battery of questions. Could do horrible things for his career trajectory.
Are you rifling my reputation as PB's premier punner? If so, be warned I shall detonate...
I rebut that explosive charge.
In the field of punnery, I am severely outgunned and outranged.
Ho-wozit-er for you? There’s morter come if you want. Gunshy? Cannon, you can do it if you rifle through you memories
From the speech of Rob Jetten, new leader of the Dutch liberal party:
During its 45 years in the EU, Britain has imported many tens of thousands of European laws and regulations. Many thousands more have direct effect. EU law has had absolute supremacy over British law ever since British accession. A little understood legal reality. The fabric of Europe’s legal framework is the fabric of the UK’s political life.
Comments
It is easily extended (and usually is) to most other British institutions and traditions.
Instead it preferred to sneer, call its opponents little Englanders and prostrate itself at the altar of unmitigated internationalism and euro federalism.
I do wonder what Boris is up to this weekend. The Davis leadership bid is on full throttle judging by the newspapers I've seen so far.
7.8 and 7.6
'Fintan O’Toole: Here’s how post-Brexit Ireland could turn out'
https://tinyurl.com/ycurp45k
You tinker.
That doesn't stop the other side noting the political effects of it. And there were some.
If you now think that that the referendum result should be ignored because of your concerns about the Union, fine.
But you cannot rasonably support May and condemn the ERG on the grounds of your support for the Union. It is May who put the Union at risk by agreeing the backstop. The ERG are defending the Union by refusing the demands of a foreign power to interfere in NI against the terms of the GFA.
betting PostF1: may add to this later (more markets being added but I need to walk the dog soon), but Bottas at 3.75 (each way, third the odds top 2) to be winner without Vettel/Hamilton is just too long. He's narrowly shorter than Raikkonen to be on the podium (1.61 against 1.66) yet 3.75 to be winner without Hamilton/Vettel. He starts 3rd on the grid, on the supersoft, Raikkonen on the ultrasoft.
They refer to building closer links with the Commonwealth, which is a sentiment many would approve of and indeed taking advantage of the Canzuk offer by the Canadian Conservative Party.
Your credibility is, can I say, somewhat lower than TMs at the moment.
hmmmm
Perhaps if the BBC were a little more impartial and less up itself ... ohh and if I had a choice as to whether I want their output I for one would be less scathing of them.
The dissolution of what one can call the Soviet empire was incidentally also pretty peaceful - more so than ours because of the disaster in India - and the Portugese empire in Africa was dissolved when the new Portugese government decided the insurgents were actually right - something which perhaps really is unique in history.
The NHS, yes, by some. The BBC seems to get attacked by both sides these days.
I've argued before that patriotism is a commitment not an identity: a promise to do things such as pay tax or serve in the armed forces, not an expression of an inner conviction. And I'm somewhat saddened by those who disagree.
Thomas Mair was a disturbed man and no one can really know but him why he did what he did that day in that moment. Even Jo Cox's husband has said it is far too simplistic to blame it on the EU referendum.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/oct/30/jo-cox-widower-calls-on-politicians-to-reclaim-patriotism-from-far-right
Also PB Tories: Customs Union Is Soviet Brutality
Do you not recall, after our wonderful 2012 Olympic opening ceremony, which celebrated that great British institution of the NHS, as well as a raft of popular music, that it was the Daily Mail and some Tory MPs that were having a whinge while the rest of us thought it was a great expression of British values?
You do know that the entire, tiny BEF (150,000 men, if memory serves) was more or less wiped out in the first three months of WW1, surely?
I think you're confusing it with the resistance offered by the Belgians which allowed the French to mobilise effectively (although they were close to losing Paris at one point).
About the only strategically useful thing the BEF did before Sir John French managed to kill them all was secure the Channel ports.
Will put up the pre-race ramble shortly.
Could do horrible things for his career trajectory.
Jacob Rees-Mogg is a serious contender to be prime minister of the United Kingdom
In the field of punnery, I am severely outgunned and outranged.
Glad I waited for the extra markets. Some interesting possibilities, but decided to stick with Bottas to be the winner without Hamilton/Vettel each way at 3.75.
https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1053960788061368320
I'm going back to bed.
The word Brexit evokes an image of a Britain that has to endure confinement in some kind of enclosure. An enclosure from which it can escape by simply moving through an opening marked ‘exit’. It can get up and go. A simple, single act of will. You just have to say yes or no. Piece of cake. In or out. All you have to do is tick the box.
The attraction of the image the word Brexit evokes is obvious. Standing up and going for the “exit” has the flavour of decisiveness, independence, change and action. Much more attractive than being passive. Sitting on your hands. Keeping things as they are, afraid of what is outside the door. And then, of course, there is the unfortunate rubbery capacity of the word for it to be shaped into all kinds of attractive sounding derivations. Such as “brexiteer”. Who would want to be something as stuffy and boring sounding as a “remainer” when you can be something as new-fangled and exciting as a “brexiteer”, dashing fearlessly through the exit to the great outdoors.
There is no simple “exit” that can be taken. There is no simple separation. There is only tearing. Cutting. Destruction. Every single element, every tiny strand is connected. The mightiest riddles, such as the customs union and the Irish border, dominate the political conversation. But the truth is that it’s nitty-gritty tiny strands of fabric all the way down. During its 45 years in the EU, Britain has imported many tens of thousands of European laws and regulations. Many thousands more have direct effect. EU law has had absolute supremacy over British law ever since British accession. A little understood legal reality. The fabric of Europe’s legal framework is the fabric of the UK’s political life.
[My] blind optimism says Britain can still escape this mess. Naturally I have no real hope of making a dent in the national discussion today. But I believe Barack Obama—one famous foreigner who unsuccessfully intervened in the Brexit debate—when he says that optimism is never blind if it is rooted in tradition.
And you do know a thing or two about tradition. You do have a tradition of escaping at the last minute. It is no coincidence Harry Houdini spent his best years in Britain. It is equally less surprising that the great escape artist Sherlock Holmes is a British literary figure. Nor is it at all strange that the most memorable of JK Rowling’s writing involves Harry Potter escaping disaster. What is necessary for this great country to make its greatest escape? I’m no expert, which is good, because I’ve heard you’ve had quite enough of them. But I would hazard to guess that it would take a last minute miracle. And I’m here to say that we will welcome miracles as befits miracles: with biblical comprehension.
Family duties call.
Of course, this did happen to be very definitely in Britain's interests as well, but I think you are downplaying the moral crusade people felt they were taking part in.
Have a good one.
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