I am increasingly neutral on capital punishment. If we are happy to bomb and kill children, with drones, operated by some dude at a desk in Wiltshire, then I can cope with the state executing child murderers, following a fair trial.
Its interesting to compare the fuss over the killing of IRA terrorists in Gibraltar in the 1980s with the way we now kill British citizens (and anyone else who is unfortunate to get in the way) by drone in the Middle East nowadays.
Indeed. Extra-judicial killing by drones, with the acceptance that innocents will die as "collateral damage", renders most objections to capital punishment utterly otious and absurd.
Only if you accept it (extra-judicial killing by drones).
Well done Aaron. A very interesting header. If we're not yet completely f*cked we deserve to be. I went to the AGM of my apartment block yesterday. There was a Spanish lady an Irish lady an Italian four French and me and three of the people didn't speak any language but their own though between us we had it covered. It felt very cosmopolitan as it always does and there's nothing that fees better than being in a cosmopolitan enviroment.
I've no idea how who landed us in this craphole but I wish they could get us out
Likewise. At the moment, intelligence, conviction and decisiveness utterly trump electability.
Looks like Gove's got some momentum, at least on PB.
Much as I respect his intelligence, if there is one Tory who would be near guaranteed to put Corbyn in No 10 it is Michael Gove
Calm down HYUFD!
Corbyn is going nowhere near No 10. Even if Brexit is an unquestionably calamitous 'no deal', Corbyn's Momentum Party are utterly unelectable, even when confronted by the ridiculous Gove as PM.
Do not be so sure, they got 40% of the vote last time and could easily get in with SNP and LD support
Believe me with Corbyn, or son/daughter of Corbyn leading Labour you have 50 years of inch-perfect Conservative government ahead of you. I may see it more as 50 years of Tory chicanery and mismanagement.
Absolutely not, that is complacency of the highest order
Corbyn is coming, unless something changes.
Could that something be a change in Conservative leader?
Anyway, even with unquestionably the worst Conservative leader for countless decades (come back IDS all is forgiven) Corbyn's achievement has been to inspire the voters to still keep his party behind in the polls. Latest polls from each company: Opinium 11-12 Oct Con Lead 4% You Gov 8-9 Oct Con Lead 4% BMG 3-5 Oct Lab Lead 1% Com Res 26-27 Sep Con Lead 1% ICM 21-24 Sep Con Lead 1% Ipsos MORI 14-18 Sep Con Lead 2%
Increasingly difficult to see a scenario where the Tory party doesn't split. The trouble is that the PM seems to have gone about the negotiations from the standpoint of pragmatism and her party is fracturing into various different ideological wankfests. I less and less blame DC for gazing into his crystal ball on June 24th 2016 then running away as fast as he could.
I am increasingly neutral on capital punishment. If we are happy to bomb and kill children, with drones, operated by some dude at a desk in Wiltshire, then I can cope with the state executing child murderers, following a fair trial.
One dead paedo is a tragedy, 100k Iraqis a statistic
I think the main mistake the Government has made was to agree para 49. Sweden/Norway; France/Switzerland are customs borders, perhaps Brexit needed such a border - or at least not to have such a border ruled out. Of course any such infrastructure would not have been built, and we'd have had a blazing row with Ireland at the start of the process. Perhaps, eventually we'd have come to a paragraph simply not as limiting as 49. A commitment to respect the Belfast agreement, whilst not signing up to a para such as 49 would have been a far better way to go about the negotiations. Instead the process has been allowed to have been framed by the EU and Ireland, who at the time we did not see as the other party across the table.. more the friends and allies we've had for years and years (Yes Ireland, France, Germany; the whole nine yards..). Barnier and co have played this as hard nosed negotiators from the start, and taken advantage of the desperate need to please that is particularly virulent amongst Westminster.
My God, Keir Starmer has the charisma of a damp slipper.
And he is the supposed saviour of Labour?!?!
I've only seen him in short clips, he came across as inherently a credible seeming chap (it's that middle aged white guy charm I guess), is he really that bad?
Yes, he's that bad.
And I speak as a disenchanted rightwinger who would love to see Labour led by a new kind of Blair (without the cant and sans Iraq) someone with a bit of charisma and common sense. Anyone. Please. The Tories are so useless. If Labour could unite around a centre lefty with some vision and passion and the ability to convey this, I would abandon a lifetime habit and vote Labour.
I am increasingly neutral on capital punishment. If we are happy to bomb and kill children, with drones, operated by some dude at a desk in Wiltshire, then I can cope with the state executing child murderers, following a fair trial.
Its interesting to compare the fuss over the killing of IRA terrorists in Gibraltar in the 1980s with the way we now kill British citizens (and anyone else who is unfortunate to get in the way) by drone in the Middle East nowadays.
Indeed. Extra-judicial killing by drones, with the acceptance that innocents will die as "collateral damage", renders most objections to capital punishment utterly otious and absurd.
Unfortunately it can’t be Gove. Unless it’s over Boris dead body.
It could be Patel.
I quite like Patel. At least she's sexy.
You mean #metoo
The names being bounded around on here, simply an assessment of their intellectual capacity, com skills, courage. Rollocks! Sex appeal counts for 90% of it. Whoever gets it won’t be bald or own a box set of the Big Bang theory. Sexy = noticed. Sexy = virility. It’s not the politicians in the fight that matters, but the fight in the politicians.
If Patel also had a tidy Mensur scar on her left cheek, it would already be in the bag.
My God, Keir Starmer has the charisma of a damp slipper.
And he is the supposed saviour of Labour?!?!
I've only seen him in short clips, he came across as inherently a credible seeming chap (it's that middle aged white guy charm I guess), is he really that bad?
Yes, he's that bad.
And I speak as a disenchanted rightwinger who would love to see Labour led by a new kind of Blair (without the cant and sans Iraq) someone with a bit of charisma and common sense. Anyone. Please. The Tories are so useless. If Labour could unite around a centre lefty with some vision and passion and the ability to convey this, I would abandon a lifetime habit and vote Labour.
At least one bank that I know of is moving responsibility out of the UK and into the rEU. It isn't contingency, it's happening now and at pace. This year the responsibilities are transferred. Next year the budgets will be assigned over there and the jobs will follow.
People are very complacent.
Would you tell us the name of this bank please.
Plus the total of jobs involved
There really has been some bollocks posted about what is actually happening
Well despite being requested three times the name of this bank doesn't seem to be forthcoming.
So we have anonymous person on the internet making a claim about an unknown bank.
Given the crap which has previously been said about banking job losses:
' If you perchance thought that your London banking job would be safe with Britain outside the European Union, you were seemingly wrong. Consultants working for leading strategy firms in London say banks have activated their contingency plans and that the London job cuts are about to come thick and fast.
"You're looking at anything from 50,000 to 70,000 London finance jobs being moved overseas in the next 12 months," predicts one consultant working with one of the top finance strategy firms in the City. "Jobs are going to be cut, and those cuts are going to start next week." '
' The UK's financial sector could lose more than 200,000 jobs after Brexit, experts have warned.
Xavier Rolet, chief executive of the London Stock Exchange Group (LSE), said two thirds of the job losses would be felt outside Greater London, with the blow coming as soon as Article 50 is triggered. '
My God, Keir Starmer has the charisma of a damp slipper.
And he is the supposed saviour of Labour?!?!
I've only seen him in short clips, he came across as inherently a credible seeming chap (it's that middle aged white guy charm I guess), is he really that bad?
Yes, he's that bad.
And I speak as a disenchanted rightwinger who would love to see Labour led by a new kind of Blair (without the cant and sans Iraq) someone with a bit of charisma and common sense. Anyone. Please. The Tories are so useless. If Labour could unite around a centre lefty with some vision and passion and the ability to convey this, I would abandon a lifetime habit and vote Labour.
But Starmer is truly dreadful.
Also Keir Starmer was responsible for the idiotic outrage that was the twitter joke trial.
Starmer *ruined a man's life for two fucking years* to see if it was possible to prosecute somebody for making a joke.
C*nt.
Yes. He's loathsome (and he's my MP). He's so up his own bien pensant arse he makes Thornberry look like Farage. He's the worst.
I also believe he'd do terribly in a campaign. He has negative charisma. He looks the part, but as soon as he opens his mouth you realise: my God, he's a wanker. He is Theresa May without the smooth, Blair-like personability.
Corbyn is miles better, in terms of human warmth. Shame he's a stupid Trot.
Ed Balls is the great lost leader, looking back. Smart, human, eloquent, sensible: he'd absolutely walk an election over TMay's Tories.
Indeed. The defeat of Ed by the ludicrous Andrea seems the very definition of Pyrrhic. Balls is just about left enough to carry the membership. Right enough to tickle the erogenous zones of swing voters. And he could rhumba the fuck out of Tusk and cha cha cha Barnier to within an inch of his life. His tango with Merkel would be PPV on specialist websites.
My God, Keir Starmer has the charisma of a damp slipper.
And he is the supposed saviour of Labour?!?!
I've only seen him in short clips, he came across as inherently a credible seeming chap (it's that middle aged white guy charm I guess), is he really that bad?
Yes, he's that bad.
And I speak as a disenchanted rightwinger who would love to see Labour led by a new kind of Blair (without the cant and sans Iraq) someone with a bit of charisma and common sense. Anyone. Please. The Tories are so useless. If Labour could unite around a centre lefty with some vision and passion and the ability to convey this, I would abandon a lifetime habit and vote Labour.
But Starmer is truly dreadful.
Thornberry is the one.
Maybe if she didn’t eat for two.
Gluttonous jowls aren’t a great look on a socialist.
My God, Keir Starmer has the charisma of a damp slipper.
And he is the supposed saviour of Labour?!?!
I've only seen him in short clips, he came across as inherently a credible seeming chap (it's that middle aged white guy charm I guess), is he really that bad?
Yes, he's that bad.
And I speak as a disenchanted rightwinger who would love to see Labour led by a new kind of Blair (without the cant and sans Iraq) someone with a bit of charisma and common sense. Anyone. Please. The Tories are so useless. If Labour could unite around a centre lefty with some vision and passion and the ability to convey this, I would abandon a lifetime habit and vote Labour.
But Starmer is truly dreadful.
Thornberry is the one.
Yes, if I were Labour I'd go for Thornberry. She's almost as painfully PC as Starmer, but she manages to appear human, and has a certain Milfy charm. It's probably fake, but she pulls it off.
I wouldn't vote for her, but many would. She could easily win the next GE for Labour, at a canter, whereas Corbyn will almost certainly lose it.
Some serious red-on-red going on between Caroline Flint and Alastair Campbell on This Week. She's winning. I know the feeling.
Whatever side Alastair Campbell is backing you feel on principle you want to be on the other side - a duplictous and odious man who now makes a living giving PR advice to brutal dictators. Surely a job offer from the Saudis can't be far off.
As you say Flint won the debate hands down - why should we take note of a march of 100,000 mostly London remainers when he ignored over 1 million marched against the Iraq war.
Also a probable first - a panel on the BBC where three quarters of the panel were advocating in favour of Brexit!
Starmer says Labour will be prepared to back 'a People's Vote' if they cannot get a general election if No Deal is the outcome of the negotiations
Has anyone told Jezza?
Yes, conference. This is the position conference agreed on. Corbyn has always deferred to the party democracy. It would be very difficult for him to do otherwise.
Yes - see his acceptance of the party position on Trident, which he feels much more strongly about than Brexit either way. He believes in arguing his case in the party and accepting if he loses the argument. It's such an unusual trait in a leader that people struggle to recognise it. But as Grabcoque says, it's significant in the Brexit context.
My God, Keir Starmer has the charisma of a damp slipper.
And he is the supposed saviour of Labour?!?!
I've only seen him in short clips, he came across as inherently a credible seeming chap (it's that middle aged white guy charm I guess), is he really that bad?
Yes, he's that bad.
And I speak as a disenchanted rightwinger who would love to see Labour led by a new kind of Blair (without the cant and sans Iraq) someone with a bit of charisma and common sense. Anyone. Please. The Tories are so useless. If Labour could unite around a centre lefty with some vision and passion and the ability to convey this, I would abandon a lifetime habit and vote Labour.
But Starmer is truly dreadful.
Also Keir Starmer was responsible for the idiotic outrage that was the twitter joke trial.
Starmer *ruined a man's life for two fucking years* to see if it was possible to prosecute somebody for making a joke.
C*nt.
Yes. He's loathsome (and he's my MP). He's so up his own bien pensant arse he makes Thornberry look like Farage. He's the worst.
I also believe he'd do terribly in a campaign. He has negative charisma. He looks the part, but as soon as he opens his mouth you realise: my God, he's a wanker. He is Theresa May without the smooth, Blair-like personability.
Corbyn is miles better, in terms of human warmth. Shame he's a stupid Trot.
Ed Balls is the great lost leader, looking back. Smart, human, eloquent, sensible: he'd absolutely walk an election over TMay's Tories.
Indeed. The defeat of Ed by the ludicrous Andrea seems the very definition of Pyrrhic. Balls is just about left enough to carry the membership. Right enough to tickle the erogenous zones of swing voters. And he could rhumba the fuck out of Tusk and cha cha cha Barnier to within an inch of his life. His tango with Merkel would be PPV on specialist websites.
I agree entirely. I'd vote for him tomorrow. And he was anti-euro.
I was saying this on PB years ago when everyone hated him! I always thought Balls was oddly under-rated, He seems like a giant compared to the dwarves, on both sides, who rule us now.
He kept project Miliband on track. That was in those long past days when it was considered sensible to price out your financial commitments and not just pledge to spend more on everything. Now they don’t even pretend that politics is about priorities.
I agree entirely. I'd vote for him tomorrow. And he was anti-euro.
I was saying this on PB years ago when everyone hated him! I always thought Balls was oddly under-rated, He seems like a giant compared to the dwarves, on both sides, who rule us now.
He kept project Miliband on track. That was in those long past days when it was considered sensible to price out your financial commitments and not just pledge to spend more on everything. Now they don’t even pretend that politics is about priorities.
It was obvious at the time that he held Ed M's leadership and strategy in a certain level of contempt, even while he led in the polls (EICIPM). There was more than a little irony in his own defeat vindicating him.
Some serious red-on-red going on between Caroline Flint and Alastair Campbell on This Week. She's winning. I know the feeling.
Whatever side Alastair Campbell is backing you feel on principle you want to be on the other side - a duplictous and odious man who now makes a living giving PR advice to brutal dictators. Surely a job offer from the Saudis can't be far off.
As you say Flint won the debate hands down - why should we take note of a march of 100,000 mostly London remainers when he ignored over 1 million marched against the Iraq war.
Also a probable first - a panel on the BBC where three quarters of the panel were advocating in favour of Brexit!
He is utterly deranged. Form as long as your arm for trying to crowbar his warped views into democracy and still taken seriously. Have to doff my cap to him really
At least one bank that I know of is moving responsibility out of the UK and into the rEU. It isn't contingency, it's happening now and at pace. This year the responsibilities are transferred. Next year the budgets will be assigned over there and the jobs will follow.
People are very complacent.
Would you tell us the name of this bank please.
Plus the total of jobs involved
There really has been some bollocks posted about what is actually happening
Well despite being requested three times the name of this bank doesn't seem to be forthcoming.
So we have anonymous person on the internet making a claim about an unknown bank.
Given the crap which has previously been said about banking job losses:
' If you perchance thought that your London banking job would be safe with Britain outside the European Union, you were seemingly wrong. Consultants working for leading strategy firms in London say banks have activated their contingency plans and that the London job cuts are about to come thick and fast.
"You're looking at anything from 50,000 to 70,000 London finance jobs being moved overseas in the next 12 months," predicts one consultant working with one of the top finance strategy firms in the City. "Jobs are going to be cut, and those cuts are going to start next week." '
' The UK's financial sector could lose more than 200,000 jobs after Brexit, experts have warned.
Xavier Rolet, chief executive of the London Stock Exchange Group (LSE), said two thirds of the job losses would be felt outside Greater London, with the blow coming as soon as Article 50 is triggered. '
“I’ll do whatever I can if he runs as would most people I think who backed Bernie in 2016,” said Claire Sandberg, a senior campaign aide for Sanders in 2016. “I’m sure Elizabeth Warren knows all the people she’d appoint to the [Consumer Financial Protection Bureau] and the Treasury Department, but I want to know what she’s going to do on climate change. We need a candidate who understands that that’s an existential threat, and frankly he’s the only candidate who has shown that level of vision.” Or as one former aide who’s still undecided about 2020 put it: “There’s only one Bernie, there will not be another Bernie.” Those unsure about Bernie 2020 don’t dispute that. But they say there are other considerations this time around. “He’s the grandpa of the movement,” said another campaign worker from 2016, “but that might not make him the best choice for 2020.”
Some serious red-on-red going on between Caroline Flint and Alastair Campbell on This Week. She's winning. I know the feeling.
Whatever side Alastair Campbell is backing you feel on principle you want to be on the other side - a duplictous and odious man who now makes a living giving PR advice to brutal dictators. Surely a job offer from the Saudis can't be far off.
As you say Flint won the debate hands down - why should we take note of a march of 100,000 mostly London remainers when he ignored over 1 million marched against the Iraq war.
Also a probable first - a panel on the BBC where three quarters of the panel were advocating in favour of Brexit!
He is utterly deranged. Form as long as your arm for trying to crowbar his warped views into democracy and still taken seriously. Have to doff my cap to him really
Campbell just comes across as sad, now. Grey, aged, a bit cranky, intellectually decrepit. I think guilt over Iraq has really fucked him up, and he was already a self-confessed depressive and ex-alcoholic.
As an ex addict myself, I genuinely pity him. But he is his own worst enemy. He should retire from politics entirely and go and plant orchards and give apples, pears and olives to poor kids. Make the last third of his life kindly and worthwhile. Then he might achieve some serenity.
I despise him but pity him as well. As you say, can you imagine being prone to depression and the guilt/self hate that comes with hard drinking then waking up every morning and realising you started the Iraq war? He looked about 90 on the show tonight, and that’s with make up. A sad case.
“I’ll do whatever I can if he runs as would most people I think who backed Bernie in 2016,” said Claire Sandberg, a senior campaign aide for Sanders in 2016. “I’m sure Elizabeth Warren knows all the people she’d appoint to the [Consumer Financial Protection Bureau] and the Treasury Department, but I want to know what she’s going to do on climate change. We need a candidate who understands that that’s an existential threat, and frankly he’s the only candidate who has shown that level of vision.” Or as one former aide who’s still undecided about 2020 put it: “There’s only one Bernie, there will not be another Bernie.” Those unsure about Bernie 2020 don’t dispute that. But they say there are other considerations this time around. “He’s the grandpa of the movement,” said another campaign worker from 2016, “but that might not make him the best choice for 2020.”
Well, it’s a view. But I think it’s pretty clear that Bernie is done.
(And America really ought to get their heads around the idea of elder statesmen/women. Too many octogenarians in frontline politics.)
Some serious red-on-red going on between Caroline Flint and Alastair Campbell on This Week. She's winning. I know the feeling.
Whatever side Alastair Campbell is backing you feel on principle you want to be on the other side - a duplictous and odious man who now makes a living giving PR advice to brutal dictators. Surely a job offer from the Saudis can't be far off.
As you say Flint won the debate hands down - why should we take note of a march of 100,000 mostly London remainers when he ignored over 1 million marched against the Iraq war.
Also a probable first - a panel on the BBC where three quarters of the panel were advocating in favour of Brexit!
He is utterly deranged. Form as long as your arm for trying to crowbar his warped views into democracy and still taken seriously. Have to doff my cap to him really
Campbell just comes across as sad, now. Grey, aged, a bit cranky, intellectually decrepit. I think guilt over Iraq has really fucked him up, and he was already a self-confessed depressive and ex-alcoholic.
As an ex addict myself, I genuinely pity him. But he is his own worst enemy. He should retire from politics entirely and go and plant orchards and give apples, pears and olives to poor kids. Make the last third of his life kindly and worthwhile. Then he might achieve some serenity.
I despise him but pity him as well. As you say, can you imagine being prone to depression and the guilt/self hate that comes with hard drinking then waking up every morning and realising you started the Iraq war? He looked about 90 on the show tonight, and that’s with make up. A sad case.
“I’ll do whatever I can if he runs as would most people I think who backed Bernie in 2016,” said Claire Sandberg, a senior campaign aide for Sanders in 2016. “I’m sure Elizabeth Warren knows all the people she’d appoint to the [Consumer Financial Protection Bureau] and the Treasury Department, but I want to know what she’s going to do on climate change. We need a candidate who understands that that’s an existential threat, and frankly he’s the only candidate who has shown that level of vision.” Or as one former aide who’s still undecided about 2020 put it: “There’s only one Bernie, there will not be another Bernie.” Those unsure about Bernie 2020 don’t dispute that. But they say there are other considerations this time around. “He’s the grandpa of the movement,” said another campaign worker from 2016, “but that might not make him the best choice for 2020.”
Well, it’s a view. But I think it’s pretty clear that Bernie is done.
(And America really ought to get their heads around the idea of elder statesmen/women. Too many octogenarians in frontline politics.)
On the latest Democratic national 2020 presidential election polling Sanders is second only to Biden with Harris and Warren just behind them.
“I’ll do whatever I can if he runs as would most people I think who backed Bernie in 2016,” said Claire Sandberg, a senior campaign aide for Sanders in 2016. “I’m sure Elizabeth Warren knows all the people she’d appoint to the [Consumer Financial Protection Bureau] and the Treasury Department, but I want to know what she’s going to do on climate change. We need a candidate who understands that that’s an existential threat, and frankly he’s the only candidate who has shown that level of vision.” Or as one former aide who’s still undecided about 2020 put it: “There’s only one Bernie, there will not be another Bernie.” Those unsure about Bernie 2020 don’t dispute that. But they say there are other considerations this time around. “He’s the grandpa of the movement,” said another campaign worker from 2016, “but that might not make him the best choice for 2020.”
Well, it’s a view. But I think it’s pretty clear that Bernie is done.
(And America really ought to get their heads around the idea of elder statesmen/women. Too many octogenarians in frontline politics.)
On the latest Democratic national 2020 presidential election polling Sanders is second only to Biden with Harris and Warren just behind them.
We're about six months from the first Democratic debate. It will be interesting to see who turns up. My money would be that:
Won't turn up: Elizabeth Warren Bernie Sanders Michael Bloomberg John Kerry
Will turn up: Kamala Harris Michael Anventetti
Unknown: Joe Biden (but I suspect not) Corey Booker (but I suspect not) Kirsten Gillibrand Eric Holder John Hickenlooper Mitch Landrieu Steve Bullock Julian Castro Amy Klobuchar Many others
“I’ll do whatever I can if he runs as would most people I think who backed Bernie in 2016,” said Claire Sandberg, a senior campaign aide for Sanders in 2016. “I’m sure Elizabeth Warren knows all the people she’d appoint to the [Consumer Financial Protection Bureau] and the Treasury Department, but I want to know what she’s going to do on climate change. We need a candidate who understands that that’s an existential threat, and frankly he’s the only candidate who has shown that level of vision.” Or as one former aide who’s still undecided about 2020 put it: “There’s only one Bernie, there will not be another Bernie.” Those unsure about Bernie 2020 don’t dispute that. But they say there are other considerations this time around. “He’s the grandpa of the movement,” said another campaign worker from 2016, “but that might not make him the best choice for 2020.”
Well, it’s a view. But I think it’s pretty clear that Bernie is done.
(And America really ought to get their heads around the idea of elder statesmen/women. Too many octogenarians in frontline politics.)
On the latest Democratic national 2020 presidential election polling Sanders is second only to Biden with Harris and Warren just behind them.
We're about six months from the first Democratic debate. It will be interesting to see who turns up. My money would be that:
Won't turn up: Elizabeth Warren Bernie Sanders Michael Bloomberg John Kerry
Will turn up: Kamala Harris Michael Anventetti
Unknown: Joe Biden (but I suspect not) Corey Booker (but I suspect not) Kirsten Gillibrand Eric Holder John Hickenlooper Mitch Landrieu Steve Bullock Julian Castro Amy Klobuchar Many others
Oh dear - Looks like for all HYUFD's spin on here the game's up for Theresa!
She'll have to go next week surely?
I think he’s fallen back on civil war and threatening the jocks with the British jackboot, now.
Or something..
Well that may be the only way to keep them in the UK if No Deal which could quickly get very serious for both the economy and the Union
Hugely exaggerated. The economy will stall and get sluggish for a couple of years, not collapse. The EU is a convenience, not a lifeline.
And I’d never advocate or support the use of force against our fellow Britons, in whatever part of our constituent nations.
Sure, I’d be very upset but, if they want to go, we have to let them.
No, deadly serious. The complacency of hardcore Brexiteers is astonishing.
With No Deal we would leave our largest export market without even a free trade deal, manufacturers and banks are all threatening to go if that is the case.
Scotland and NI may go, collapsing a centuries old Union for a No Deal Brexit polling shows not even English voters back.
Forget Suez or the fall of Singapore, this would be the greatest national humiliation since we lost the American War of Independence 250 years ago, whoever was PM at the time would go down as the Lord North of our age for centuries.
Even the Tories being out of office for 20 years would be small fry in comparison, it would be define our nation and our generation for the rest of our lives
What have I told you about you and the Hysteria Pills?
You were more entertaining when telling all and sundry that Boris is nailed on
On topic. Excellent thread. The absolutists on both side only see the weaknesses of the decisions taken - not the problems presented by the alternatives.
Just as the number one job of a pilot is to "fly the plane" (sounds obvious, but the number of crashes that occur because pilots don't is considerable), the number one job of a minority government Prime Minister is to "keep the show on the road" - and for the last (nearly) 500 days Mrs May has done just that. Along with weekly predictions that 'she's had it now' and 'the game is up', "she'll be gone by/during/after conference" (twice).
Here's a prediction. The UK and Brussels will cobble something together in December, despite rising tides of hysteria and gloom mongering in November (just as well "the Tory party only ever panics in a crisis"). In January Parliament will pass it, because they will have run out of time to do much else, and on March 29 the UK will leave the EU.
This time next year, Mrs May will either still be in situ (as will Magic Grandpa) or will have gone of her own volition, broadly thanked for having herded a bunch of fractious squabbling cats towards the exit.
In May the EU Parliament elections will take place - and that's when it will get really interesting (unfortunately).
The main impact of the UK leaving is to further clobber the Social Democrats, but they were already looking too far behind to be in contention unless the EPP pick someone epically hopeless.
I wouldn't be too quick to say that......(a) the Gibraltarians will have a say iand also deeds) and also the Spanish parliament will need to ratify the deal - currently Sanchez leads a minority govt which is weak to put it mildly.
I wouldn't be too quick to say that......(a) the Gibraltarians will have a say iand also deeds) and also the Spanish parliament will need to ratify the deal - currently Sanchez leads a minority govt which is weak to put it mildly.
Spain yesterday acknowledged a “tripartite” Brexit relationship between Gibraltar, London and Madrid and said a protocol for the Rock’s inclusion in any UK/EU Withdrawal Agreement and transitional arrangements was “practically sealed”.
Addressing the Congress in Madrid, Spanish Foreign Minister Josep Borrell said that despite continued uncertainty about the prospect of the UK and the EU reaching agreement on the wider Brexit deal, Gibraltar “will not be a problem”.
It looks like left to their own devices Spain, the UK and Gibraltar have focussed on what needs to be fixed now and shunted trickier subjects into the post-withdrawal agreement if they cannot be agreed ahead:
“It is practically sealed and my negotiators have instructions not to allow it to be reopened over their dead bodies.”
“The withdrawal protocol is sealed, it’s in green, and if tomorrow we had to sign the Brexit agreement, it would be signed and Gibraltar would not be a problem.”
ANKARA (Reuters) - Turkish police are searching a forest on the outskirts of Istanbul and a city near the Sea of Marmara for remains of a Saudi dissident journalist who disappeared two weeks ago after entering the Saudi consulate, two Turkish officials said.
“I’ll do whatever I can if he runs as would most people I think who backed Bernie in 2016,” said Claire Sandberg, a senior campaign aide for Sanders in 2016. “I’m sure Elizabeth Warren knows all the people she’d appoint to the [Consumer Financial Protection Bureau] and the Treasury Department, but I want to know what she’s going to do on climate change. We need a candidate who understands that that’s an existential threat, and frankly he’s the only candidate who has shown that level of vision.” Or as one former aide who’s still undecided about 2020 put it: “There’s only one Bernie, there will not be another Bernie.” Those unsure about Bernie 2020 don’t dispute that. But they say there are other considerations this time around. “He’s the grandpa of the movement,” said another campaign worker from 2016, “but that might not make him the best choice for 2020.”
Well, it’s a view. But I think it’s pretty clear that Bernie is done.
(And America really ought to get their heads around the idea of elder statesmen/women. Too many octogenarians in frontline politics.)
On the latest Democratic national 2020 presidential election polling Sanders is second only to Biden with Harris and Warren just behind them.
We're about six months from the first Democratic debate. It will be interesting to see who turns up. My money would be that:
Won't turn up: Elizabeth Warren Bernie Sanders Michael Bloomberg John Kerry
Will turn up: Kamala Harris Michael Anventetti
Unknown: Joe Biden (but I suspect not) Corey Booker (but I suspect not) Kirsten Gillibrand Eric Holder John Hickenlooper Mitch Landrieu Steve Bullock Julian Castro Amy Klobuchar Many others
It seems highly unlikely that neither Warren nor Sanders turn up. Setting aside actual determination to get the nomination, both are very strongly committed to pushing their agenda on the left of the party.
I wouldn't be too quick to say that......(a) the Gibraltarians will have a say iand also deeds) and also the Spanish parliament will need to ratify the deal - currently Sanchez leads a minority govt which is weak to put it mildly.
Spain yesterday acknowledged a “tripartite” Brexit relationship between Gibraltar, London and Madrid and said a protocol for the Rock’s inclusion in any UK/EU Withdrawal Agreement and transitional arrangements was “practically sealed”.
Addressing the Congress in Madrid, Spanish Foreign Minister Josep Borrell said that despite continued uncertainty about the prospect of the UK and the EU reaching agreement on the wider Brexit deal, Gibraltar “will not be a problem”.
It looks like left to their own devices Spain, the UK and Gibraltar have focussed on what needs to be fixed now and shunted trickier subjects into the post-withdrawal agreement if they cannot be agreed ahead:
“It is practically sealed and my negotiators have instructions not to allow it to be reopened over their dead bodies.”
“The withdrawal protocol is sealed, it’s in green, and if tomorrow we had to sign the Brexit agreement, it would be signed and Gibraltar would not be a problem.”
Ideologically, Gibraltar is a much bigger deal for PP than PSOE, so it was always going to be a lot smoother once Sanchez took over. Practically, PSOE’s hesrtland is Andalucia and Gibraltar is important to the region’s economy.
On topic, it would certainly have been most advisable to do some hard thinking and proper planning before triggering Article 50. Rather than just sending it off to see what happened next.
I wouldn't be too quick to say that......(a) the Gibraltarians will have a say iand also deeds) and also the Spanish parliament will need to ratify the deal - currently Sanchez leads a minority govt which is weak to put it mildly.
It’ll pass. PP and Cs might object, but they don’t have the votes to stop it.
Banning all diesel and petrol cars in 14 years is far too soon. I could get behind the 2040 date, as it was just about possible to get the car tech and charging infrastructure in place. Since a car can reasonably be expected to last 14 years, this new date will start affecting buying decisions today. And this is worse as it also includes hybrids.
And there are *no* replacements for the cars most plebs use, nor is there any reasonable charging infrastructure. The chances of this being true in 14 years is, frankly, unlikely.
And meanwhile, people will be facing buying cars that will depreciate much faster than before. It's going to cause chaos in the market.
“I’ll do whatever I can if he runs as would most people I think who backed Bernie in 2016,” said Claire Sandberg, a senior campaign aide for Sanders in 2016. “I’m sure Elizabeth Warren knows all the people she’d appoint to the [Consumer Financial Protection Bureau] and the Treasury Department, but I want to know what she’s going to do on climate change. We need a candidate who understands that that’s an existential threat, and frankly he’s the only candidate who has shown that level of vision.” Or as one former aide who’s still undecided about 2020 put it: “There’s only one Bernie, there will not be another Bernie.” Those unsure about Bernie 2020 don’t dispute that. But they say there are other considerations this time around. “He’s the grandpa of the movement,” said another campaign worker from 2016, “but that might not make him the best choice for 2020.”
Well, it’s a view. But I think it’s pretty clear that Bernie is done.
(And America really ought to get their heads around the idea of elder statesmen/women. Too many octogenarians in frontline politics.)
On the latest Democratic national 2020 presidential election polling Sanders is second only to Biden with Harris and Warren just behind them.
We're about six months from the first Democratic debate. It will be interesting to see who turns up. My money would be that:
Won't turn up: Elizabeth Warren Bernie Sanders Michael Bloomberg John Kerry
Will turn up: Kamala Harris Michael Anventetti
Unknown: Joe Biden (but I suspect not) Corey Booker (but I suspect not) Kirsten Gillibrand Eric Holder John Hickenlooper Mitch Landrieu Steve Bullock Julian Castro Amy Klobuchar Many others
Klobuchar's odds are getting shorter. She seems to be Selina Meyer made flesh right down to the ridiculous book title.
I think Warren has the best politics but Harris just looks like the sort of person you'd expect to be POTUS and that probably counts for a lot.
My God, Keir Starmer has the charisma of a damp slipper.
And he is the supposed saviour of Labour?!?!
I've only seen him in short clips, he came across as inherently a credible seeming chap (it's that middle aged white guy charm I guess), is he really that bad?
Yes, he's that bad.
And I speak as a disenchanted rightwinger who would love to see Labour led by a new kind of Blair (without the cant and sans Iraq) someone with a bit of charisma and common sense. Anyone. Please. The Tories are so useless. If Labour could unite around a centre lefty with some vision and passion and the ability to convey this, I would abandon a lifetime habit and vote Labour.
But Starmer is truly dreadful.
Also Keir Starmer was responsible for the idiotic outrage that was the twitter joke trial.
Starmer *ruined a man's life for two fucking years* to see if it was possible to prosecute somebody for making a joke.
C*nt.
Yes. He's loathsome (and he's my MP). He's so up his own bien pensant arse he makes Thornberry look like Farage. He's the worst.
I also believe he'd do terribly in a campaign. He has negative charisma. He looks the part, but as soon as he opens his mouth you realise: my God, he's a wanker. He is Theresa May without the smooth, Blair-like personability.
Corbyn is miles better, in terms of human warmth. Shame he's a stupid Trot.
Ed Balls is the great lost leader, looking back. Smart, human, eloquent, sensible: he'd absolutely walk an election over TMay's Tories.
Indeed. The defeat of Ed by the ludicrous Andrea seems the very definition of Pyrrhic. Balls is just about left enough to carry the membership. Right enough to tickle the erogenous zones of swing voters. And he could rhumba the fuck out of Tusk and cha cha cha Barnier to within an inch of his life. His tango with Merkel would be PPV on specialist websites.
I agree entirely. I'd vote for him tomorrow. And he was anti-euro.
I was saying this on PB years ago when everyone hated him! I always thought Balls was oddly under-rated, He seems like a giant compared to the dwarves, on both sides, who rule us now.
His behaviour was odious, which made his opinions less relevant. Like Portillo, politics did him no favours and it is good to see him emerge as a nicer guy away from it.
Starmer says Labour will be prepared to back 'a People's Vote' if they cannot get a general election if No Deal is the outcome of the negotiations
Has anyone told Jezza?
Yes, conference. This is the position conference agreed on. Corbyn has always deferred to the party democracy. It would be very difficult for him to do otherwise.
Yes - see his acceptance of the party position on Trident, which he feels much more strongly about than Brexit either way. He believes in arguing his case in the party and accepting if he loses the argument. It's such an unusual trait in a leader that people struggle to recognise it. But as Grabcoque says, it's significant in the Brexit context.
The idea that if in office Corbyn would respect the Labour conference’s vote on Trident is rather sweet. He would simply do what Blair used to do: get conference to change its mind. The bigger issue is getting that change passed the PLP in the Commons.
I wouldn't be too quick to say that......(a) the Gibraltarians will have a say iand also deeds) and also the Spanish parliament will need to ratify the deal - currently Sanchez leads a minority govt which is weak to put it mildly.
Spain yesterday acknowledged a “tripartite” Brexit relationship between Gibraltar, London and Madrid and said a protocol for the Rock’s inclusion in any UK/EU Withdrawal Agreement and transitional arrangements was “practically sealed”.
Addressing the Congress in Madrid, Spanish Foreign Minister Josep Borrell said that despite continued uncertainty about the prospect of the UK and the EU reaching agreement on the wider Brexit deal, Gibraltar “will not be a problem”.
It looks like left to their own devices Spain, the UK and Gibraltar have focussed on what needs to be fixed now and shunted trickier subjects into the post-withdrawal agreement if they cannot be agreed ahead:
“It is practically sealed and my negotiators have instructions not to allow it to be reopened over their dead bodies.”
“The withdrawal protocol is sealed, it’s in green, and if tomorrow we had to sign the Brexit agreement, it would be signed and Gibraltar would not be a problem.”
Ideologically, Gibraltar is a much bigger deal for PP than PSOE, so it was always going to be a lot smoother once Sanchez took over. Practically, PSOE’s hesrtland is Andalucia and Gibraltar is important to the region’s economy.
You have to remember that Gibraltar is seen as a haven for drug smuggling, illegal migration, money laundering and British imperialism in the Spanish Press. Whilst this may be not true, Spanish politicians make great hay out of such issues and public opinion can lead sensible politicians to do strange things (on either side of the divide), in recent years we have seen border closure, shots being fired at vessels and of course the highest REMAIN vote of anywhere was seen on the Rock....I dont see it as a done deal at all....
The problem for Gove is that there's enough MPs to block his ascension because they think he's a c*** and the fear he'd bring in Dominic Cummings to be his Chief of Staff.
Gove has pissed off a lot of people, from Cameroons, to Boris fans, to the ERG who think he's the Marshal Petain of the Brexiteers.
You are probably right but he's intelligent, he's pragmatic, he gets things done and he's a Brexiteer. I've way more confidence that he, rather than May would negotiate a sensible Brexit. If it's no deal, I'm also more confident he'd steer the UK through that with more judgement and decisiveness than May would.
Gove leaks and spins and gossips. He is fundamentally ill-equipped to be the leader of a Government.
Virtually all politicians leak, spin and gossip. Who is your choice then?
They might all leak, spin and gossip to an extent. But Gove is in a league of his own.
I'd probably take a risk with Sajid Javid. But hustings with Boris also an option would be entertaining.
But for now, I'd have David Davis as an interim leader - to deliver the type of Brexit he was working on, before stomped on by May.
I was surprised by the hostility to Javid among some of the nutters I was with the other day (this was due to supporting Remain when he’d been helping the Leave campaign up until the point the referendum was called)
I wouldn't be too quick to say that......(a) the Gibraltarians will have a say iand also deeds) and also the Spanish parliament will need to ratify the deal - currently Sanchez leads a minority govt which is weak to put it mildly.
Spain yesterday acknowledged a “tripartite” Brexit relationship between Gibraltar, London and Madrid and said a protocol for the Rock’s inclusion in any UK/EU Withdrawal Agreement and transitional arrangements was “practically sealed”.
Addressing the Congress in Madrid, Spanish Foreign Minister Josep Borrell said that despite continued uncertainty about the prospect of the UK and the EU reaching agreement on the wider Brexit deal, Gibraltar “will not be a problem”.
It looks like left to their own devices Spain, the UK and Gibraltar have focussed on what needs to be fixed now and shunted trickier subjects into the post-withdrawal agreement if they cannot be agreed ahead:
“It is practically sealed and my negotiators have instructions not to allow it to be reopened over their dead bodies.”
“The withdrawal protocol is sealed, it’s in green, and if tomorrow we had to sign the Brexit agreement, it would be signed and Gibraltar would not be a problem.”
Ideologically, Gibraltar is a much bigger deal for PP than PSOE, so it was always going to be a lot smoother once Sanchez took over. Practically, PSOE’s hesrtland is Andalucia and Gibraltar is important to the region’s economy.
You have to remember that Gibraltar is seen as a haven for drug smuggling, illegal migration, money laundering and British imperialism in the Spanish Press. Whilst this may be not true, Spanish politicians make great hay out of such issues and public opinion can lead sensible politicians to do strange things (on either side of the divide), in recent years we have seen border closure, shots being fired at vessels and of course the highest REMAIN vote of anywhere was seen on the Rock....I dont see it as a done deal at all....
The problem for Gove is that there's enough MPs to block his ascension because they think he's a c*** and the fear he'd bring in Dominic Cummings to be his Chief of Staff.
Gove has pissed off a lot of people, from Cameroons, to Boris fans, to the ERG who think he's the Marshal Petain of the Brexiteers.
You are probably right but he's intelligent, he's pragmatic, he gets things done and he's a Brexiteer. I've way more confidence that he, rather than May would negotiate a sensible Brexit. If it's no deal, I'm also more confident he'd steer the UK through that with more judgement and decisiveness than May would.
Gove leaks and spins and gossips. He is fundamentally ill-equipped to be the leader of a Government.
Virtually all politicians leak, spin and gossip. Who is your choice then?
They might all leak, spin and gossip to an extent. But Gove is in a league of his own.
I'd probably take a risk with Sajid Javid. But hustings with Boris also an option would be entertaining.
But for now, I'd have David Davis as an interim leader - to deliver the type of Brexit he was working on, before stomped on by May.
I was surprised by the hostility to Javid among some of the nutters I was with the other day (this was due to supporting Remain when he’d been helping the Leave campaign up until the point the referendum was called)
I am increasingly neutral on capital punishment. If we are happy to bomb and kill children, with drones, operated by some dude at a desk in Wiltshire, then I can cope with the state executing child murderers, following a fair trial.
Its interesting to compare the fuss over the killing of IRA terrorists in Gibraltar in the 1980s with the way we now kill British citizens (and anyone else who is unfortunate to get in the way) by drone in the Middle East nowadays.
Indeed. Extra-judicial killing by drones, with the acceptance that innocents will die as "collateral damage", renders most objections to capital punishment utterly otious and absurd.
Not at all.
The State has no right to kill its citizens - it would reverse the lines of authority
And meanwhile, people will be facing buying cars that will depreciate much faster than before. It's going to cause chaos in the market.
Diesels are already in freefall. I wanted to buy an E46 330d estate as my E36 M3 estate has gradually become worth serious money so I sold it. I could buy nice ones all day for two grand but wanted one with a blown turbo (so I can put a big turbo on it). I ended up getting two (one for parts) for just over 1200 quid!
Our next new car will probably be a Taycan. There is no way I would plough big money into an IC car now unless it was something collectible that's likely to appreciate.
I wouldn't be too quick to say that......(a) the Gibraltarians will have a say iand also deeds) and also the Spanish parliament will need to ratify the deal - currently Sanchez leads a minority govt which is weak to put it mildly.
Spain yesterday acknowledged a “tripartite” Brexit relationship between Gibraltar, London and Madrid and said a protocol for the Rock’s inclusion in any UK/EU Withdrawal Agreement and transitional arrangements was “practically sealed”.
Addressing the Congress in Madrid, Spanish Foreign Minister Josep Borrell said that despite continued uncertainty about the prospect of the UK and the EU reaching agreement on the wider Brexit deal, Gibraltar “will not be a problem”.
It looks like left to their own devices Spain, the UK and Gibraltar have focussed on what needs to be fixed now and shunted trickier subjects into the post-withdrawal agreement if they cannot be agreed ahead:
“It is practically sealed and my negotiators have instructions not to allow it to be reopened over their dead bodies.”
“The withdrawal protocol is sealed, it’s in green, and if tomorrow we had to sign the Brexit agreement, it would be signed and Gibraltar would not be a problem.”
Ideologically, Gibraltar is a much bigger deal for PP than PSOE, so it was always going to be a lot smoother once Sanchez took over. Practically, PSOE’s hesrtland is Andalucia and Gibraltar is important to the region’s economy.
You have to remember that Gibraltar is seen as a haven for drug smuggling, illegal migration, money laundering and British imperialism in the Spanish Press. Whilst this may be not true, Spanish politicians make great hay out of such issues and public opinion can lead sensible politicians to do strange things (on either side of the divide), in recent years we have seen border closure, shots being fired at vessels and of course the highest REMAIN vote of anywhere was seen on the Rock....I dont see it as a done deal at all....
The problems usually occur when PP is in power. It no longer is. I’d expect any agreement to be signed off. The Gibraltar Remain vote was clearly an acknowledgement that EU membership is hugely beneficial for Gibraltar. There really is (was) no downside and it gives (gave) an extra level of guarantee to its status. Post-Brexit Gibraltar will be far more vulnerable to changes of government in Madrid.
My God, Keir Starmer has the charisma of a damp slipper.
And he is the supposed saviour of Labour?!?!
I've only seen him in short clips, he came across as inherently a credible seeming chap (it's that middle aged white guy charm I guess), is he really that bad?
Yes, he's that bad.
And I speak as a.
But Starmer is truly dreadful.
Also Keir Starmer was responsible for the idiotic outrage that was the twitter joke trial.
Starmer *ruined a man's life for two fucking years* to see if it was possible to prosecute somebody for making a joke.
C*nt.
Yes. He's loathsome (and he's my MP). He's so up his own bien pensant arse he makes Thornberry look like Farage. He's the worst.
I also believe he'd do terribly in a campaign. He has negative charisma. He looks the part, but as soon as he opens his mouth you realise: my God, he's a wanker. He is Theresa May without the smooth, Blair-like personability.
Corbyn is miles better, in terms of human warmth. Shame he's a stupid Trot.
Ed Balls is the great lost leader, looking back. Smart, human, eloquent, sensible: he'd absolutely walk an election over TMay's Tories.
Indeed. The defeat of Ed by the ludicrous Andrea seems the very definition of Pyrrhic. Balls is just about left enough to carry the membership. Right enough to tickle the erogenous zones of swing voters. And he could rhumba the fuck out of Tusk and cha cha cha Barnier to within an inch of his life. His tango with Merkel would be PPV on specialist websites.
I agree entirely. I'd vote for him tomorrow. And he was anti-euro.
I was saying this on PB years ago when everyone hated him! I always thought Balls was oddly under-rated, He seems like a giant compared to the dwarves, on both sides, who rule us now.
Banning all diesel and petrol cars in 14 years is far too soon. I could get behind the 2040 date, as it was just about possible to get the car tech and charging infrastructure in place. Since a car can reasonably be expected to last 14 years, this new date will start affecting buying decisions today. And this is worse as it also includes hybrids.
And there are *no* replacements for the cars most plebs use, nor is there any reasonable charging infrastructure. The chances of this being true in 14 years is, frankly, unlikely.
And meanwhile, people will be facing buying cars that will depreciate much faster than before. It's going to cause chaos in the market.
Fuckwits. Stupid, arsing fuckwits.
(Guess who is about to buy their first new car?)
I wouldn’t worry about it. It won’t happen.
The infrastructure for electric cars being in place is just as important as it’s affordability, which currently isn’t there either, and recklessly pursuing a policy like this would do catastrophic damage to our car industry that would make no deal look like a gentle breeze on a summer’s day.
Whatever the Government eventually does will largely be following the market, not trying to lead it.
And meanwhile, people will be facing buying cars that will depreciate much faster than before. It's going to cause chaos in the market.
Diesels are already in freefall. I wanted to buy an E46 330d estate as my E36 M3 estate has gradually become worth serious money so I sold it. I could buy nice ones all day for two grand but wanted one with a blown turbo (so I can put a big turbo on it). I ended up getting two (one for parts) for just over 1200 quid!
Our next new car will probably be a Taycan. There is no way I would plough big money into an IC car now unless it was something collectible that's likely to appreciate.
A £60k car rather proves my point ...
You are lucky to be able to afford to choose to buy an all-electric car nowadays. For most people spending that much on a car is a dream.
And as the ban's going to include hybrids, it's also knocking out something that is more affordable (although still not utterly so) today.
I'd love it if these geniuses (I mean fuckwits) could come up with a plan to get from here, to the glorious world they want to inflict on us. Leaving aside the cars themselves, just a plan for the infrastructure changes needed would be useful.
As an aside, it would be good if MPs also addressed how the UK could gain from the tech required, instead of it just being a massive money sink. But it seems well just be throwing money to foreign companies and killing our own industry.
And meanwhile, people will be facing buying cars that will depreciate much faster than before. It's going to cause chaos in the market.
Diesels are already in freefall. I wanted to buy an E46 330d estate as my E36 M3 estate has gradually become worth serious money so I sold it. I could buy nice ones all day for two grand but wanted one with a blown turbo (so I can put a big turbo on it). I ended up getting two (one for parts) for just over 1200 quid!
Our next new car will probably be a Taycan. There is no way I would plough big money into an IC car now unless it was something collectible that's likely to appreciate.
A £60k car rather proves my point ...
You are lucky to be able to afford to choose to buy an all-electric car nowadays. For most people spending that much on a car is a dream.
And as the ban's going to include hybrids, it's also knocking out something that is more affordable (although still not utterly so) today.
I'd love it if these geniuses (I mean fuckwits) could come up with a plan to get from here, to the glorious world they want to inflict on us. Leaving aside the cars themselves, just a plan for the infrastructure changes needed would be useful.
As an aside, it would be good if MPs also addressed how the UK could gain from the tech required, instead of it just being a massive money sink. But it seems well just be throwing money to foreign companies and killing our own industry.
Let's have a realistic plan.
I’d be interested to know how many people on that select committee live in parts of the country where their constituents all depend on cars, and whether there was any split on the report.
Banning all diesel and petrol cars in 14 years is far too soon. I could get behind the 2040 date, as it was just about possible to get the car tech and charging infrastructure in place. Since a car can reasonably be expected to last 14 years, this new date will start affecting buying decisions today. And this is worse as it also includes hybrids.
And there are *no* replacements for the cars most plebs use, nor is there any reasonable charging infrastructure. The chances of this being true in 14 years is, frankly, unlikely.
And meanwhile, people will be facing buying cars that will depreciate much faster than before. It's going to cause chaos in the market.
Fuckwits. Stupid, arsing fuckwits.
(Guess who is about to buy their first new car?)
I wouldn’t worry about it. It won’t happen.
The infrastructure for electric cars being in place is just as important as it’s affordability, which currently isn’t there either, and recklessly pursuing a policy like this would do catastrophic damage to our car industry that would make no deal look like a gentle breeze on a summer’s day.
Whatever the Government eventually does will largely be following the market, not trying to lead it.
It's already going to cause chaos. We want to buy a new car - one we'll probably keep for a decade or more given past experience.
Agree utterly about the infrastructure.
But more widely: you bet the future on tech available today, not on what you fervently hope will be available sometime in the future. And you try to develop the technology you want in your country, so your own industry can take advantage. When that tech's available, you move on.
Banning all diesel and petrol cars in 14 years is far too soon. I could get behind the 2040 date, as it was just about possible to get the car tech and charging infrastructure in place. Since a car can reasonably be expected to last 14 years, this new date will start affecting buying decisions today. And this is worse as it also includes hybrids.
And there are *no* replacements for the cars most plebs use, nor is there any reasonable charging infrastructure. The chances of this being true in 14 years is, frankly, unlikely.
And meanwhile, people will be facing buying cars that will depreciate much faster than before. It's going to cause chaos in the market.
Fuckwits. Stupid, arsing fuckwits.
(Guess who is about to buy their first new car?)
The argument on R4 this morning was that a shorter deadline would accelerate the provision of the charging network. Personally my next car will not be pure IC, so I need to keep my 8 year old diesel going for a few more years. I'm sure that there will be other people putting off buying a new car until electric or hybrid are more affordable and practical.
Banning all diesel and petrol cars in 14 years is far too soon. I could get behind the 2040 date, as it was just about possible to get the car tech and charging infrastructure in place. Since a car can reasonably be expected to last 14 years, this new date will start affecting buying decisions today. And this is worse as it also includes hybrids.
And there are *no* replacements for the cars most plebs use, nor is there any reasonable charging infrastructure. The chances of this being true in 14 years is, frankly, unlikely.
And meanwhile, people will be facing buying cars that will depreciate much faster than before. It's going to cause chaos in the market.
Fuckwits. Stupid, arsing fuckwits.
(Guess who is about to buy their first new car?)
They're only bringing it forward by 8 years. In any case, if they set 2032 as the deadline and the infrastructure isn't ready, you can always push the target back.
But bringing it forward closer to the time is politically impossible.
The problem for Gove is that there's enough MPs to block his ascension because they think he's a c*** and the fear he'd bring in Dominic Cummings to be his Chief of Staff.
Gove has pissed off a lot of people, from Cameroons, to Boris fans, to the ERG who think he's the Marshal Petain of the Brexiteers.
You are probably right but he's intelligent, he's pragmatic, he gets things done and he's a Brexiteer. I've way more confidence that he, rather than May would negotiate a sensible Brexit. If it's no deal, I'm also more confident he'd steer the UK through that with more judgement and decisiveness than May would.
Gove leaks and spins and gossips. He is fundamentally ill-equipped to be the leader of a Government.
Virtually all politicians leak, spin and gossip. Who is your choice then?
They might all leak, spin and gossip to an extent. But Gove is in a league of his own.
I'd probably take a risk with Sajid Javid. But hustings with Boris also an option would be entertaining.
But for now, I'd have David Davis as an interim leader - to deliver the type of Brexit he was working on, before stomped on by May.
I was surprised by the hostility to Javid among some of the nutters I was with the other day (this was due to supporting Remain when he’d been helping the Leave campaign up until the point the referendum was called)
They used the “t” word I’m afraid
Tory
“Traitor”
It’s a stupid emotive word to use (although to be fair they meant to their cause rather than to the country)
I am increasingly neutral on capital punishment. If we are happy to bomb and kill children, with drones, operated by some dude at a desk in Wiltshire, then I can cope with the state executing child murderers, following a fair trial.
Its interesting to compare the fuss over the killing of IRA terrorists in Gibraltar in the 1980s with the way we now kill British citizens (and anyone else who is unfortunate to get in the way) by drone in the Middle East nowadays.
Indeed. Extra-judicial killing by drones, with the acceptance that innocents will die as "collateral damage", renders most objections to capital punishment utterly otious and absurd.
Not at all.
The State has no right to kill its citizens - it would reverse the lines of authority
And meanwhile, people will be facing buying cars that will depreciate much faster than before. It's going to cause chaos in the market.
Diesels are already in freefall. I wanted to buy an E46 330d estate as my E36 M3 estate has gradually become worth serious money so I sold it. I could buy nice ones all day for two grand but wanted one with a blown turbo (so I can put a big turbo on it). I ended up getting two (one for parts) for just over 1200 quid!
Our next new car will probably be a Taycan. There is no way I would plough big money into an IC car now unless it was something collectible that's likely to appreciate.
A £60k car rather proves my point ...
You are lucky to be able to afford to choose to buy an all-electric car nowadays. For most people spending that much on a car is a dream.
And as the ban's going to include hybrids, it's also knocking out something that is more affordable (although still not utterly so) today.
I'd love it if these geniuses (I mean fuckwits) could come up with a plan to get from here, to the glorious world they want to inflict on us. Leaving aside the cars themselves, just a plan for the infrastructure changes needed would be useful.
As an aside, it would be good if MPs also addressed how the UK could gain from the tech required, instead of it just being a massive money sink. But it seems well just be throwing money to foreign companies and killing our own industry.
Let's have a realistic plan.
The Leaf is £27,235 apparently, although that's more than I'd like to pay for a car.
Banning all diesel and petrol cars in 14 years is far too soon. I could get behind the 2040 date, as it was just about possible to get the car tech and charging infrastructure in place. Since a car can reasonably be expected to last 14 years, this new date will start affecting buying decisions today. And this is worse as it also includes hybrids.
And there are *no* replacements for the cars most plebs use, nor is there any reasonable charging infrastructure. The chances of this being true in 14 years is, frankly, unlikely.
And meanwhile, people will be facing buying cars that will depreciate much faster than before. It's going to cause chaos in the market.
Fuckwits. Stupid, arsing fuckwits.
(Guess who is about to buy their first new car?)
I wouldn’t worry about it. It won’t happen.
The infrastructure for electric cars being in place is just as important as it’s affordability, which currently isn’t there either, and recklessly pursuing a policy like this would do catastrophic damage to our car industry that would make no deal look like a gentle breeze on a summer’s day.
Whatever the Government eventually does will largely be following the market, not trying to lead it.
It's already going to cause chaos. We want to buy a new car - one we'll probably keep for a decade or more given past experience.
Agree utterly about the infrastructure.
But more widely: you bet the future on tech available today, not on what you fervently hope will be available sometime in the future. And you try to develop the technology you want in your country, so your own industry can take advantage. When that tech's available, you move on.
But you do not bet the future on hope.
If you plan to keep a new car for over ten years then I would suggest that you don't have to worry all that much about depreciation?
Banning all diesel and petrol cars in 14 years is far too soon. I could get behind the 2040 date, as it was just about possible to get the car tech and charging infrastructure in place. Since a car can reasonably be expected to last 14 years, this new date will start affecting buying decisions today. And this is worse as it also includes hybrids.
And there are *no* replacements for the cars most plebs use, nor is there any reasonable charging infrastructure. The chances of this being true in 14 years is, frankly, unlikely.
And meanwhile, people will be facing buying cars that will depreciate much faster than before. It's going to cause chaos in the market.
Fuckwits. Stupid, arsing fuckwits.
(Guess who is about to buy their first new car?)
Agree. Select Committees have not spent the last decade covering themselves in glory.
I would date it to Margaret Hodge turning the Treasury Select Committee into a kangeroo court where she abused individuals who implemented the law as her government had previously created it.
And as for APPGs. Ugh.
On cars, very good deals on new or pre-April 2017 diesels (or 2-3 year old electrics) at the moment :-). And the Euro 6 diesels are not about to be banned in cities, even in Germany (contrary to a couple of contributors who claim German cities are banning all diesels).
My new Skoda arrives in a fortnight. 10k less than the corresponding Audi anyway, and nearly another 10k off as part of the deal. 60 mpg, can carry a door flat, and tows 2 tonnes.
On Alistair Campbell - I find him a fascinating character to listen to, except on Brexit and Iraq. On Iraq, understandably, it is impossible for him to admit how disastrous the decision was, his own part in it etc. Can any of us honestly say if we'd been responsible for something like that we could hold our hand up and accept it?
On Brexit, he's in full paid spin mode although I suspect he knows a 2nd referendum isn't that great an idea. But as a communicator he is superb (he's also a good interviewer too), and his interventions and observations on other issues are well worth listening to.
I wouldn't be too quick to say that......(a) the Gibraltarians will have a say iand also deeds) and also the Spanish parliament will need to ratify the deal - currently Sanchez leads a minority govt which is weak to put it mildly.
Spain yesterday acknowledged a “tripartite” Brexit relationship between Gibraltar, London and Madrid and said a protocol for the Rock’s inclusion in any UK/EU Withdrawal Agreement and transitional arrangements was “practically sealed”.
Addressing the Congress in Madrid, Spanish Foreign Minister Josep Borrell said that despite continued uncertainty about the prospect of the UK and the EU reaching agreement on the wider Brexit deal, Gibraltar “will not be a problem”.
It looks like left to their own devices Spain, the UK and Gibraltar have focussed on what needs to be fixed now and shunted trickier subjects into the post-withdrawal agreement if they cannot be agreed ahead:
“It is practically sealed and my negotiators have instructions not to allow it to be reopened over their dead bodies.”
“The withdrawal protocol is sealed, it’s in green, and if tomorrow we had to sign the Brexit agreement, it would be signed and Gibraltar would not be a problem.”
Ideologically, Gibraltar is a much bigger deal for PP than PSOE, so it was always going to be a lot smoother once Sanchez took over. Practically, PSOE’s hesrtland is Andalucia and Gibraltar is important to the region’s economy.
You have to remember that Gibraltar is seen as a haven for drug smuggling, illegal migration, money laundering and British imperialism in the Spanish Press. Whilst this may be not true, Spanish politicians make great hay out of such issues and public opinion can lead sensible politicians to do strange things (on either side of the divide), in recent years we have seen border closure, shots being fired at vessels and of course the highest REMAIN vote of anywhere was seen on the Rock....I dont see it as a done deal at all....
Except they are saying it is done....
Well, on the one hand we have:
The Spanish Prime Minister The Spanish Foreign Minister The Gibraltar Government and The British Government
and on the other
Someone on the internet.
Tough call......
If Brexit goes horribly pear shaped, I hope Mr Varadkar learns from this, in what ever new job he chooses.
And meanwhile, people will be facing buying cars that will depreciate much faster than before. It's going to cause chaos in the market.
Diesels are already in freefall. I wanted to buy an E46 330d estate as my E36 M3 estate has gradually become worth serious money so I sold it. I could buy nice ones all day for two grand but wanted one with a blown turbo (so I can put a big turbo on it). I ended up getting two (one for parts) for just over 1200 quid!
Our next new car will probably be a Taycan. There is no way I would plough big money into an IC car now unless it was something collectible that's likely to appreciate.
A £60k car rather proves my point ...
You are lucky to be able to afford to choose to buy an all-electric car nowadays. For most people spending that much on a car is a dream.
And as the ban's going to include hybrids, it's also knocking out something that is more affordable (although still not utterly so) today.
I'd love it if these geniuses (I mean fuckwits) could come up with a plan to get from here, to the glorious world they want to inflict on us. Leaving aside the cars themselves, just a plan for the infrastructure changes needed would be useful.
As an aside, it would be good if MPs also addressed how the UK could gain from the tech required, instead of it just being a massive money sink. But it seems well just be throwing money to foreign companies and killing our own industry.
Let's have a realistic plan.
switching to an electric car from an old petrol car would cost us at least £2500 per year, mainly in depreciation. we do less than 2000 miles a year. there are also range issues with an electric car. it would be cheaper, and more environmentally friendly, to switch to ecotricity.
The problem for Gove is that there's enough MPs to block his ascension because they think he's a c*** and the fear he'd bring in Dominic Cummings to be his Chief of Staff.
Gove has pissed off a lot of people, from Cameroons, to Boris fans, to the ERG who think he's the Marshal Petain of the Brexiteers.
You are probably right but he's intelligent, he's pragmatic, he gets things done and he's a Brexiteer. I've way more confidence that he, rather than May would negotiate a sensible Brexit. If it's no deal, I'm also more confident he'd steer the UK through that with more judgement and decisiveness than May would.
Gove leaks and spins and gossips. He is fundamentally ill-equipped to be the leader of a Government.
Virtually all politicians leak, spin and gossip. Who is your choice then?
They might all leak, spin and gossip to an extent. But Gove is in a league of his own.
I'd probably take a risk with Sajid Javid. But hustings with Boris also an option would be entertaining.
But for now, I'd have David Davis as an interim leader - to deliver the type of Brexit he was working on, before stomped on by May.
I was surprised by the hostility to Javid among some of the nutters I was with the other day (this was due to supporting Remain when he’d been helping the Leave campaign up until the point the referendum was called)
They used the “t” word I’m afraid
Tory
“Traitor”
It’s a stupid emotive word to use (although to be fair they meant to their cause rather than to the country)
When either the Tories or Labour don't choose a WASP as leader, I estimate that they lose about 10% of their potential vote share in a GE, due to the prejudiced views of some voters in the privacy of the polling booth. For example, IMO in 2010 Labour chose the wrong Ed, not the wrong Miliband. Javid would be the wrong person to replace TM if the Tories want to win the next GE. Even a German surname may be a handicap, e.g. Raab.
Yes, it's essentially paragraph 49 that put the EU in complete charge of the negotiations.
I don't think the EU included paragraph 49 specifically to control the negotiations. If the UK diverges from the EU by that fact it creates a hard border in Ireland. People in the UK may decide it's a price worth paying or they don't care and they may also object to the alternative of an Irish Sea border. The point is, the EU prioritises no hard border in Ireland. The consequences of that on the UK - no divergence or an Irish Sea border - isn't its concern.
And meanwhile, people will be facing buying cars that will depreciate much faster than before. It's going to cause chaos in the market.
Diesels are already in freefall. I wanted to buy an E46 330d estate as my E36 M3 estate has gradually become worth serious money so I sold it. I could buy nice ones all day for two grand but wanted one with a blown turbo (so I can put a big turbo on it). I ended up getting two (one for parts) for just over 1200 quid!
Our next new car will probably be a Taycan. There is no way I would plough big money into an IC car now unless it was something collectible that's likely to appreciate.
A £60k car rather proves my point ...
You are lucky to be able to afford to choose to buy an all-electric car nowadays. For most people spending that much on a car is a dream.
And as the ban's going to include hybrids, it's also knocking out something that is more affordable (although still not utterly so) today.
I'd love it if these geniuses (I mean fuckwits) could come up with a plan to get from here, to the glorious world they want to inflict on us. Leaving aside the cars themselves, just a plan for the infrastructure changes needed would be useful.
As an aside, it would be good if MPs also addressed how the UK could gain from the tech required, instead of it just being a massive money sink. But it seems well just be throwing money to foreign companies and killing our own industry.
Let's have a realistic plan.
The Leaf is £27,235 apparently, although that's more than I'd like to pay for a car.
I think the govt gives you 4,500 off that price as an incentive. Plus of course you will save on petrol and road tax. This website reckons you'll save 6 grand over 5 years based on driving 12,000 miles a year. Plus you'll be able to brag on pb.com about how you're doing the right thing!
If you plan to keep a new car for over ten years then I would suggest that you don't have to worry all that much about depreciation?
At the moment, probably. But perhaps we may want to sell it before then if our situation changes. It's the uncertainty. I'm now seriously considering not buying a new car and buying a second-hand one - two or three years old. Or even to keep our old car on the road for longer - though as it's Mrs J's, I'd rather her have something more reliable.
New car sales are going to tank, and people are going to try and keep their old IC cars going for longer. It will also mean there are fewer second-hand cars available.
Not buying a new car will be a hit to the economy.
In addition, just a few years ago the government were advising people to buy diesels, and now diesels are now the spawn of the devil. This also creates uncertainty: what will the government decide is verboten next?
Let's look at another angle: fuel. If all IC cars are to be banned in 14 years, petrol stations will start to close - or at least stop selling petrochemical fuel. This will happen *before* the cut-off date, and it will get harder to get fuel.
There are so many network effects that these idiots can't even be arsed to consider.
And meanwhile, people will be facing buying cars that will depreciate much faster than before. It's going to cause chaos in the market.
Diesels are already in freefall. I wanted to buy an E46 330d estate as my E36 M3 estate has gradually become worth serious money so I sold it. I could buy nice ones all day for two grand but wanted one with a blown turbo (so I can put a big turbo on it). I ended up getting two (one for parts) for just over 1200 quid!
Our next new car will probably be a Taycan. There is no way I would plough big money into an IC car now unless it was something collectible that's likely to appreciate.
A £60k car rather proves my point ...
You are lucky to be able to afford to choose to buy an all-electric car nowadays. For most people spending that much on a car is a dream.
And as the ban's going to include hybrids, it's also knocking out something that is more affordable (although still not utterly so) today.
I'd love it if these geniuses (I mean fuckwits) could come up with a plan to get from here, to the glorious world they want to inflict on us. Leaving aside the cars themselves, just a plan for the infrastructure changes needed would be useful.
As an aside, it would be good if MPs also addressed how the UK could gain from the tech required, instead of it just being a massive money sink. But it seems well just be throwing money to foreign companies and killing our own industry.
Let's have a realistic plan.
The Leaf is £27,235 apparently, although that's more than I'd like to pay for a car.
160 mile range max in best coonditions. That's not enough for us, and is far more expensive than we can afford. And there's nowhere for her to charge at work.
"In 2017, the entry-level cost of an average small car ranged from about £10,635 to £12,715."
The problem for Gove is that there's enough MPs to block his ascension because they think he's a c*** and the fear he'd bring in Dominic Cummings to be his Chief of Staff.
Gove has pissed off a lot of people, from Cameroons, to Boris fans, to the ERG who think he's the Marshal Petain of the Brexiteers.
You are probably right but he's intelligent, he's pragmatic, he gets things done and he's a Brexiteer. I've way more confidence that he, rather than May would negotiate a sensible Brexit. If it's no deal, I'm also more confident he'd steer the UK through that with more judgement and decisiveness than May would.
Gove leaks and spins and gossips. He is fundamentally ill-equipped to be the leader of a Government.
Virtually all politicians leak, spin and gossip. Who is your choice then?
They might all leak, spin and gossip to an extent. But Gove is in a league of his own.
I'd probably take a risk with Sajid Javid. But hustings with Boris also an option would be entertaining.
But for now, I'd have David Davis as an interim leader - to deliver the type of Brexit he was working on, before stomped on by May.
I was surprised by the hostility to Javid among some of the nutters I was with the other day (this was due to supporting Remain when he’d been helping the Leave campaign up until the point the referendum was called)
They used the “t” word I’m afraid
Tory
“Traitor”
It’s a stupid emotive word to use (although to be fair they meant to their cause rather than to the country)
When either the Tories or Labour don't choose a WASP as leader, I estimate that they lose about 10% of their potential vote share in a GE, due to the prejudiced views of some voters in the privacy of the polling booth. For example, IMO in 2010 Labour chose the wrong Ed, not the wrong Miliband. Javid would be the wrong person to replace TM if the Tories want to win the next GE. Even a German surname may be a handicap, e.g. Raab.
Yes, it really helped the Remain win that a high-profile Leave figure was called Farage and another was part-Turkish.
And meanwhile, people will be facing buying cars that will depreciate much faster than before. It's going to cause chaos in the market.
Diesels are already in freefall. I wanted to buy an E46 330d estate as my E36 M3 estate has gradually become worth serious money so I sold it. I could buy nice ones all day for two grand but wanted one with a blown turbo (so I can put a big turbo on it). I ended up getting two (one for parts) for just over 1200 quid!
Our next new car will probably be a Taycan. There is no way I would plough big money into an IC car now unless it was something collectible that's likely to appreciate.
A £60k car rather proves my point ...
You are lucky to be able to afford to choose to buy an all-electric car nowadays. For most people spending that much on a car is a dream.
And as the ban's going to include hybrids, it's also knocking out something that is more affordable (although still not utterly so) today.
I'd love it if these geniuses (I mean fuckwits) could come up with a plan to get from here, to the glorious world they want to inflict on us. Leaving aside the cars themselves, just a plan for the infrastructure changes needed would be useful.
As an aside, it would be good if MPs also addressed how the UK could gain from the tech required, instead of it just being a massive money sink. But it seems well just be throwing money to foreign companies and killing our own industry.
Let's have a realistic plan.
The Leaf is £27,235 apparently, although that's more than I'd like to pay for a car.
160 mile range max in best coonditions. That's not enough for us, and is far more expensive than we can afford. And there's nowhere for her to charge at work.
"In 2017, the entry-level cost of an average small car ranged from about £10,635 to £12,715."
And meanwhile, people will be facing buying cars that will depreciate much faster than before. It's going to cause chaos in the market.
Diesels are already in freefall. I wanted to buy an E46 330d estate as my E36 M3 estate has gradually become worth serious money so I sold it. I could buy nice ones all day for two grand but wanted one with a blown turbo (so I can put a big turbo on it). I ended up getting two (one for parts) for just over 1200 quid!
Our next new car will probably be a Taycan. There is no way I would plough big money into an IC car now unless it was something collectible that's likely to appreciate.
A £60k car rather proves my point ...
You are lucky to be able to afford to choose to buy an all-electric car nowadays. For most people spending that much on a car is a dream.
And as the ban's going to include hybrids, it's also knocking out something that is more affordable (although still not utterly so) today.
I'd love it if these geniuses (I mean fuckwits) could come up with a plan to get from here, to the glorious world they want to inflict on us. Leaving aside the cars themselves, just a plan for the infrastructure changes needed would be useful.
As an aside, it would be good if MPs also addressed how the UK could gain from the tech required, instead of it just being a massive money sink. But it seems well just be throwing money to foreign companies and killing our own industry.
Let's have a realistic plan.
The Leaf is £27,235 apparently, although that's more than I'd like to pay for a car.
I think the govt gives you 4,500 off that price as an incentive. Plus of course you will save on petrol and road tax. This website reckons you'll save 6 grand over 5 years based on driving 12,000 miles a year. Plus you'll be able to brag on pb.com about how you're doing the right thing!
As only the well-off can afford an electric car at the moment, the government are giving the well-off a £4,500 bung. That'll be much less when electric car sales increase because their cost have decreased - i.e. when the plebs can afford them.
I'd like an electric future. But this isn't the worst possible way to get there.
If you plan to keep a new car for over ten years then I would suggest that you don't have to worry all that much about depreciation?
At the moment, probably. But perhaps we may want to sell it before then if our situation changes. It's the uncertainty. I'm now seriously considering not buying a new car and buying a second-hand one - two or three years old. Or even to keep our old car on the road for longer - though as it's Mrs J's, I'd rather her have something more reliable.
New car sales are going to tank, and people are going to try and keep their old IC cars going for longer. It will also mean there are fewer second-hand cars available.
Not buying a new car will be a hit to the economy.
In addition, just a few years ago the government were advising people to buy diesels, and now diesels are now the spawn of the devil. This also creates uncertainty: what will the government decide is verboten next?
Let's look at another angle: fuel. If all IC cars are to be banned in 14 years, petrol stations will start to close - or at least stop selling petrochemical fuel. This will happen *before* the cut-off date, and it will get harder to get fuel.
There are so many network effects that these idiots can't even be arsed to consider.
Let's have a plan, not just dreams.
I will freely confess I cannot understand why any private buyer would buy a new car. I bought mine second hand from a commercial fleet ten years ago, and it's given me excellent service for 100,000 miles and counting although the end is probably not far away now.
You would be financially better off buying a second hand petrol car, using the money saved to put in an LPG tank, and selling again in four to five years.
If you plan to keep a new car for over ten years then I would suggest that you don't have to worry all that much about depreciation?
I'm now seriously considering not buying a new car and buying a second-hand one - two or three years old.
If you buy a new car the first hundred yards you drive away from the garage will be the most expensive ground you ever cover - 20% VAT - gone! Given the uncertainty I wouldn't buy a new car. Alternatively look at leasing one - a friend recently got a 'no brainer' deal on a Mini....
USA early voting data is super hard to interpret as, in general, states keep extending early voting so it is always increasing but... It looks like the USA is on course for very high turnout this midterm.
The chance that polling models turnout filters are correct is almost nil.
Comments
Anyway, even with unquestionably the worst Conservative leader for countless decades (come back IDS all is forgiven) Corbyn's achievement has been to inspire the voters to still keep his party behind in the polls. Latest polls from each company:
Opinium 11-12 Oct Con Lead 4%
You Gov 8-9 Oct Con Lead 4%
BMG 3-5 Oct Lab Lead 1%
Com Res 26-27 Sep Con Lead 1%
ICM 21-24 Sep Con Lead 1%
Ipsos MORI 14-18 Sep Con Lead 2%
A commitment to respect the Belfast agreement, whilst not signing up to a para such as 49 would have been a far better way to go about the negotiations. Instead the process has been allowed to have been framed by the EU and Ireland, who at the time we did not see as the other party across the table.. more the friends and allies we've had for years and years (Yes Ireland, France, Germany; the whole nine yards..).
Barnier and co have played this as hard nosed negotiators from the start, and taken advantage of the desperate need to please that is particularly virulent amongst Westminster.
The names being bounded around on here, simply an assessment of their intellectual capacity, com skills, courage. Rollocks! Sex appeal counts for 90% of it. Whoever gets it won’t be bald or own a box set of the Big Bang theory. Sexy = noticed. Sexy = virility. It’s not the politicians in the fight that matters, but the fight in the politicians.
If Patel also had a tidy Mensur scar on her left cheek, it would already be in the bag.
So we have anonymous person on the internet making a claim about an unknown bank.
Given the crap which has previously been said about banking job losses:
' If you perchance thought that your London banking job would be safe with Britain outside the European Union, you were seemingly wrong. Consultants working for leading strategy firms in London say banks have activated their contingency plans and that the London job cuts are about to come thick and fast.
"You're looking at anything from 50,000 to 70,000 London finance jobs being moved overseas in the next 12 months," predicts one consultant working with one of the top finance strategy firms in the City. "Jobs are going to be cut, and those cuts are going to start next week." '
https://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/248265/london-banking-redundancies-brexit
as an example or:
' The UK's financial sector could lose more than 200,000 jobs after Brexit, experts have warned.
Xavier Rolet, chief executive of the London Stock Exchange Group (LSE), said two thirds of the job losses would be felt outside Greater London, with the blow coming as soon as Article 50 is triggered. '
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/brexit-could-leave-200000-financial-sector-jobs-at-risk-experts-warn-a3437331.html
I would say that we not only have a right to be sceptical about claims over banking job losses but an obligation to be so.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/divide-and-rule-how-the-eu-used-ireland-to-take-control-of-brexit/
And he could rhumba the fuck out of Tusk and cha cha cha Barnier to within an inch of his life. His tango with Merkel would be PPV on specialist websites.
He thinks the EU may have overreached.
Gluttonous jowls aren’t a great look on a socialist.
As you say Flint won the debate hands down - why should we take note of a march of 100,000 mostly London remainers when he ignored over 1 million marched against the Iraq war.
Also a probable first - a panel on the BBC where three quarters of the panel were advocating in favour of Brexit!
http://www.weareresonate.com/2018/10/chow-yun-fat-only-spends-102-a-month-plans-to-give-entire-net-worth-of-714m-to-charity/
He is surprisingly good actor, but I am amazed to learn that he’s worth over $700m.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/10/18/bernie-sanders-2020-president-912082
“I’ll do whatever I can if he runs as would most people I think who backed Bernie in 2016,” said Claire Sandberg, a senior campaign aide for Sanders in 2016. “I’m sure Elizabeth Warren knows all the people she’d appoint to the [Consumer Financial Protection Bureau] and the Treasury Department, but I want to know what she’s going to do on climate change. We need a candidate who understands that that’s an existential threat, and frankly he’s the only candidate who has shown that level of vision.”
Or as one former aide who’s still undecided about 2020 put it: “There’s only one Bernie, there will not be another Bernie.”
Those unsure about Bernie 2020 don’t dispute that. But they say there are other considerations this time around.
“He’s the grandpa of the movement,” said another campaign worker from 2016, “but that might not make him the best choice for 2020.”
But I think it’s pretty clear that Bernie is done.
(And America really ought to get their heads around the idea of elder statesmen/women.
Too many octogenarians in frontline politics.)
https://www.newyorker.com/news/swamp-chronicles/is-fraud-part-of-the-trump-organizations-business-model
No other candidate gets more than 5%
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/10/14/cnn-poll-biden-leads-field-2020-democratic-hopefuls/
Won't turn up:
Elizabeth Warren
Bernie Sanders
Michael Bloomberg
John Kerry
Will turn up:
Kamala Harris
Michael Anventetti
Unknown:
Joe Biden (but I suspect not)
Corey Booker (but I suspect not)
Kirsten Gillibrand
Eric Holder
John Hickenlooper
Mitch Landrieu
Steve Bullock
Julian Castro
Amy Klobuchar
Many others
Union 25%
Greens 19%
AfD 16%
SPD 14%
FDP 11%
Left 9%
Others 6%
http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
You were more entertaining when telling all and sundry that Boris is nailed on
What ever happened to that?
Just as the number one job of a pilot is to "fly the plane" (sounds obvious, but the number of crashes that occur because pilots don't is considerable), the number one job of a minority government Prime Minister is to "keep the show on the road" - and for the last (nearly) 500 days Mrs May has done just that. Along with weekly predictions that 'she's had it now' and 'the game is up', "she'll be gone by/during/after conference" (twice).
Here's a prediction. The UK and Brussels will cobble something together in December, despite rising tides of hysteria and gloom mongering in November (just as well "the Tory party only ever panics in a crisis"). In January Parliament will pass it, because they will have run out of time to do much else, and on March 29 the UK will leave the EU.
This time next year, Mrs May will either still be in situ (as will Magic Grandpa) or will have gone of her own volition, broadly thanked for having herded a bunch of fractious squabbling cats towards the exit.
In May the EU Parliament elections will take place - and that's when it will get really interesting (unfortunately).
They've been saying it for (nearly)* 500 days
*498 if you want to be picky....
https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/1052986806348730368
https://www.politico.eu/article/matteo-salvini-commission-presidency-european-elections-2019-mulls-bid/
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/house/house-magazine/99155/johnny-mercer-“im-not-going
https://www.thenewfederalist.eu/spitzenkandidaten-and-projections-for-the-european-election-2019
The main impact of the UK leaving is to further clobber the Social Democrats, but they were already looking too far behind to be in contention unless the EPP pick someone epically hopeless.
This did make me chuckle:
The candidate will aim at achieving as much success as its predecessor, Jean-Claude Juncker
I'm not sure I'd want to be remembered as the President who presided over Brexit!
Addressing the Congress in Madrid, Spanish Foreign Minister Josep Borrell said that despite continued uncertainty about the prospect of the UK and the EU reaching agreement on the wider Brexit deal, Gibraltar “will not be a problem”.
http://chronicle.gi/2018/10/protocol-for-gibraltars-inclusion-in-withdrawal-agreement-and-transition-practically-sealed-borrell-tells-spanish-parliament/
It looks like left to their own devices Spain, the UK and Gibraltar have focussed on what needs to be fixed now and shunted trickier subjects into the post-withdrawal agreement if they cannot be agreed ahead:
“It is practically sealed and my negotiators have instructions not to allow it to be reopened over their dead bodies.”
“The withdrawal protocol is sealed, it’s in green, and if tomorrow we had to sign the Brexit agreement, it would be signed and Gibraltar would not be a problem.”
Apologies - link broke:
https://tinyurl.com/y7xa3x9u
Johnny Mercer interview with House Magazine
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-saudi-politics-dissident-turkey/turkish-police-search-forest-coastal-city-for-journalists-remains-sources-idUKKCN1MS36I?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5bc95f0b04d3014e8351b0db&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter
In any event, as the recent 538 article suggests, the midterms could do much to set the agenda:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/will-the-midterms-decide-who-runs-in-2020/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45899580
Banning all diesel and petrol cars in 14 years is far too soon. I could get behind the 2040 date, as it was just about possible to get the car tech and charging infrastructure in place. Since a car can reasonably be expected to last 14 years, this new date will start affecting buying decisions today. And this is worse as it also includes hybrids.
And there are *no* replacements for the cars most plebs use, nor is there any reasonable charging infrastructure. The chances of this being true in 14 years is, frankly, unlikely.
And meanwhile, people will be facing buying cars that will depreciate much faster than before. It's going to cause chaos in the market.
Fuckwits. Stupid, arsing fuckwits.
(Guess who is about to buy their first new car?)
I think Warren has the best politics but Harris just looks like the sort of person you'd expect to be POTUS and that probably counts for a lot.
They used the “t” word I’m afraid
The State has no right to kill its citizens - it would reverse the lines of authority
Our next new car will probably be a Taycan. There is no way I would plough big money into an IC car now unless it was something collectible that's likely to appreciate.
The infrastructure for electric cars being in place is just as important as it’s affordability, which currently isn’t there either, and recklessly pursuing a policy like this would do catastrophic damage to our car industry that would make no deal look like a gentle breeze on a summer’s day.
Whatever the Government eventually does will largely be following the market, not trying to lead it.
You are lucky to be able to afford to choose to buy an all-electric car nowadays. For most people spending that much on a car is a dream.
And as the ban's going to include hybrids, it's also knocking out something that is more affordable (although still not utterly so) today.
I'd love it if these geniuses (I mean fuckwits) could come up with a plan to get from here, to the glorious world they want to inflict on us. Leaving aside the cars themselves, just a plan for the infrastructure changes needed would be useful.
As an aside, it would be good if MPs also addressed how the UK could gain from the tech required, instead of it just being a massive money sink. But it seems well just be throwing money to foreign companies and killing our own industry.
Let's have a realistic plan.
Agree utterly about the infrastructure.
But more widely: you bet the future on tech available today, not on what you fervently hope will be available sometime in the future. And you try to develop the technology you want in your country, so your own industry can take advantage. When that tech's available, you move on.
But you do not bet the future on hope.
Personally my next car will not be pure IC, so I need to keep my 8 year old diesel going for a few more years. I'm sure that there will be other people putting off buying a new car until electric or hybrid are more affordable and practical.
But bringing it forward closer to the time is politically impossible.
Including hybrids seems harder to justify.
It’s a stupid emotive word to use (although to be fair they meant to their cause rather than to the country)
I would date it to Margaret Hodge turning the Treasury Select Committee into a kangeroo court where she abused individuals who implemented the law as her government had previously created it.
And as for APPGs. Ugh.
On cars, very good deals on new or pre-April 2017 diesels (or 2-3 year old electrics) at the moment :-). And the Euro 6 diesels are not about to be banned in cities, even in Germany (contrary to a couple of contributors who claim German cities are banning all diesels).
My new Skoda arrives in a fortnight. 10k less than the corresponding Audi anyway, and nearly another 10k off as part of the deal. 60 mpg, can carry a door flat, and tows 2 tonnes.
On Brexit, he's in full paid spin mode although I suspect he knows a 2nd referendum isn't that great an idea. But as a communicator he is superb (he's also a good interviewer too), and his interventions and observations on other issues are well worth listening to.
The Spanish Prime Minister
The Spanish Foreign Minister
The Gibraltar Government and
The British Government
and on the other
Someone on the internet.
Tough call......
If Brexit goes horribly pear shaped, I hope Mr Varadkar learns from this, in what ever new job he chooses.
we do less than 2000 miles a year. there are also range issues with an electric car.
it would be cheaper, and more environmentally friendly, to switch to ecotricity.
https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/how-much-save-electric-car
New car sales are going to tank, and people are going to try and keep their old IC cars going for longer. It will also mean there are fewer second-hand cars available.
Not buying a new car will be a hit to the economy.
In addition, just a few years ago the government were advising people to buy diesels, and now diesels are now the spawn of the devil. This also creates uncertainty: what will the government decide is verboten next?
Let's look at another angle: fuel. If all IC cars are to be banned in 14 years, petrol stations will start to close - or at least stop selling petrochemical fuel. This will happen *before* the cut-off date, and it will get harder to get fuel.
There are so many network effects that these idiots can't even be arsed to consider.
Let's have a plan, not just dreams.
"In 2017, the entry-level cost of an average small car ranged from about £10,635 to £12,715."
https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/average-cost-cars-uk-2017
You pay double for worse.
Oh.
I'd like an electric future. But this isn't the worst possible way to get there.
You would be financially better off buying a second hand petrol car, using the money saved to put in an LPG tank, and selling again in four to five years.
The chance that polling models turnout filters are correct is almost nil.
That is all.